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  1. #1

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    here, kitty, kitty, kitty...

    The middle of nowhere is definitely somewhere.


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    The middle of nowhere is definitely somewhere.

    Elephant tracks?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    The middle of nowhere is definitely somewhere.

    That's a cool track, where'd you find it? There are a lot of things about it that make me want to say "big dog" rather than a cat, but its hard to tell from that pic anyways. Cougar population is s'posed to be on the rise many places.

  4. #4
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    Hephelumps and Woozles?

    george
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archdukeferdinand
    That's a cool track, where'd you find it? There are a lot of things about it that make me want to say "big dog" rather than a cat, but its hard to tell from that pic anyways. Cougar population is s'posed to be on the rise many places.
    It was in a very remote area where there were no dogs or humans (obviously) for quite some time and it was way too big to be a coyote. The front of the track was a little adulterated from its speed. The tracks looked like it was going at a decent trot when it crossed the trail I was on because of the distance between them. None of the tracks looked really good in the freeze lift that was prevalent on my ride today, not even elk.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    Elephant tracks?
    Keep Randy reigned in, dude.

  7. #7
    avg. joe
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    Hmmm

    If memory serves, since there are no claws in the print, it should be a cat. Dogs can't retract their claws and they would be visible.

    .02
    The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    Keep Randy reigned in, dude.
    Randall K. Wofferson, King of the Trail Dogs. He'll keep us safe from the elephants.
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  9. #9
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    here too, but its not in the middle of no where

    http://www.newtimes-slo.com/whatsnews/

    go to second article down. Islay hill is about 200 yards from my driveway. Now my wife won't walk there anymore.

    Of course the lions have always been around locally, it just bothers me that thanks to a lack of hunting (ghee thanks again Sierra Club) they are no longer afraid of humans.
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by george_da_trog
    Hephelumps and Woozles?

    BFG??

  11. #11
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    Randall K. Wofferson, King of the Trail Dogs. He'll keep us safe from the elephants.
    Thats a great shot...

    Cool dog
    Trevor!

  12. #12
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    oooops
    Last edited by crash test dummy; 03-17-2004 at 09:20 AM.
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Structure
    http://www.newtimes-slo.com/whatsnews/

    it just bothers me that thanks to a lack of hunting (ghee thanks again Sierra Club) they are no longer afraid of humans.
    Umm........ it bothers me that people think lack of hunting is the problem (thanks NRA) - ever heard of habitat destruction?
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  14. #14
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    The habitat is destroyed

    That's rather the point. Too many people all over this great nation of ours, and more all the time. Crawling up and down every damn inch of it.

    But unless you had a plan to get rid of them. That's the way it's going to be.

    Like it or not, we are stuck with a landscape in California that we now have to manage: for fire, for water, and, yes, for animals. There are plenty of lions. They are not threatened. Hunting them (and no, I personally have no interest in it, nor do I think it sounds like a fun sport) would help keep their numbers in check and keep them more fearful of humans.

    Sure I'd like to live in a different California, one with about 95% less humans. I'd like to see lions, wolves, and even grizzly given a place to live. But I'll chose dead animals over dead humans anytime. Call me crazy.
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  15. #15
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    herz hoping for 9 lives

    [QUOTE=Structure]That's rather the point. Too many people all over this great nation of ours, and more all the time. Crawling up and down every damn inch of it.
    QUOTE]

    AGREED

    [QUOTE=Structure]
    But unless you had a plan to get rid of them. That's the way it's going to be.
    QUOTE]

    The people or the lions cuz I got one for the people.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Structure
    Like it or not, we are stuck with a landscape in California that we now have to manage: for fire, for water, and, yes, for animals.
    Not

    Quote Originally Posted by Structure
    But I'll chose dead animals over dead humans anytime. Call me crazy.
    Crazy

    We've got a situation here in AZ that has got me bit riled (in case ya can't tell) 3 lions in a very popular hiking a tram accessed canyon have gotten a bit bold after losing much of theri habitat to the fires last year. Rather than closing the canyon the Maim and Squish (Game and Fish) choose to hunt the lions. Seems to me i'd be a lot kinder to just close the canyon.......but that's just me. It may be one thing when they're actually in town but HULLO - this IS the "wilderness"....
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  16. #16
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    I can't see the pads.

    Cats have three lower pads and two upper pads. Dogs - two pads and one pad. Compare with this speciment from Bell Canyon near Cheesebro.
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  17. #17

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    Linky

    Here's a link to a site that tells how to differentiate between dog & cat prints. I can't really tell by looking at your photo - too much sunlight in the cube today and I'm not about to draw the blinds!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Structure
    http://www.newtimes-slo.com/whatsnews/

    go to second article down. Islay hill is about 200 yards from my driveway. Now my wife won't walk there anymore.

    Of course the lions have always been around locally, it just bothers me that thanks to a lack of hunting (ghee thanks again Sierra Club) they are no longer afraid of humans.
    Ecckkk thats scary...glad i live in the big city, no big kitties to look out for...but then again there are more dangers here..then there. Maybe if the hunters didn't kill so many dear,[That the cats, wolves & what ever kept in cycle] then the cats would not have to come down so far to populated areas to look for food, but never the less, a 200 pound cat outside your house is scary..glad nothin bad happened

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by abomb
    Ecckkk thats scary...glad i live in the big city, no big kitties to look out for...but then again there are more dangers here..then there. Maybe if the hunters didn't kill so many dear,[That the cats, wolves & what ever kept in cycle] then the cats would not have to come down so far to populated areas to look for food, but never the less, a 200 pound cat outside your house is scary..glad nothin bad happened
    It isn't so much a lack of prey that drives the lions near urban areas. In some sense its the opposite. The deer do quite well feeding on the landscaped yards during the night and retreating to the hills during the day. Since no one hunts near urban areas, the deer population reaches high levels. I'm not making an arguement for hunting deer (maybe another day, they are tasty afterall, I just don't much want to kill the pretty little fellas).

    What brings the mountain lions in is competition for hunting ranges. Lions don't play well with others. So they like to establish and defend their own ranges. The younger cats are sometimes tempted to move into unclaimed territories (unclaimed by other cats) on the urban fringes. For example, Islay hill is surrounded more-or-less on three sides by urban development, The other side is abutts hills that in turn are attached to Wilderness area. I suspect no lion would willingly chose to roam such a place. Bad smells, noise, etc. However, if said cat was pushed out of the Wilderness areas by competition for range (not prey), it might choose to make a go of living on the urban fringe. Lots of deer there (see above), and more deer will begin appearing once the grass goes brown.

    This isn't unique to my end of town. My folks live on the other side and their house directly abutts a hillside. Lots of deer, and, ocationally a big cat. So far no troubles. The cats like the deer, not humans. Smart really. Ditto for an aunt and uncle who live in Marin and have to walk the dogs with a 9mm.

    I'm not a big fan of "rednecks" and guns. Nor do I like senseless killing, but an important part of allowing big cats and humans to live together is making sure the cats are still afraid of humans. Hunting will help with that a little bit. It will also, obvisously, help reduce pressure within existing mountain lion ranges, and help prevent cats from being pushed into urban fringes.

    I'd prefer a management system that created fewer humans, and thus allowed more room for other creatures. But realistically I'm also opposed to facism so I see no chance of that. Instead, we'll have to develop management techniques that protect humans and nature. Doing both is not impossble. Anti-hunting rhetoric aside, natural systems adapt readily to predation if it is light, and if sufficient land exists for natural replacement.

    One also has to be realistic. If nothing is done to insure public safety, then the public will begin protecting itself. That means more knifes and guns on trails, more vigilantism (illegal shooting of cats, perhaps wounding...), and other very negative things. I doubt these things will make anyone safer from cat attacks, which after all are very very very rare, but it will make people less safe to other people.
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  20. #20
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    Hey thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    Thats a great shot...

    Cool dog
    Trevor!
    He's cool, except when we start a ride and the barking and ankle-biting (at me) are out of control. Just needs to run, ya know?

    I guess that's why I wear armor.

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