Front Tire Washout and Advice to not repeat it- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Front Tire Washout and Advice to not repeat it

    Was at Beech yesterday. lost it on Hellbender during the last run of the day.

    I am currently running Maxxis Ikons on my Racing Hardtail. 33 in front, 35 in rear. Washout occured in the front tire.

    Should I get a more aggressive tire like a Minion or Aggressor?

    Ive also noticed from the wreck on the 21st on Boat Rock in Rocky Knob MTB Park that The Ikons dont hold speed well in corners and tend to spin or slide. Such as when it knocked me out of my line at 30 mph in a rock garden and sent me and the front tire into a boulder on the left side of the trail.

  2. #2
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    Cornering at 30 MPH, on Ikons, at mid-30's PSI.
    Well alright then!

  3. #3
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    Lower tire pressure and better tires.

  4. #4
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    Also slow down a little, that or accept that you're going to go down once in awhile. Even the best pros wash out a front wheel now and then.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Cornering at 30 MPH, on Ikons, at mid-30's PSI.
    Well alright then!
    No, MSU. 30 in the straights through a rock garden. Not corners. Wouldnt attempt cornering at those speeds with these current tires.

  6. #6
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    I think I saw in your other post you were running Ikon+s, but here you said Ikons. It's an important distinction to make.

    If you are running Ikon+ tires, then your bike is a plus bike and needs plus tires or it would lower the BB too much. I don't believe there is currently a version of the Aggressor that is plus, so if you are running plus tires (2.8-3.0), then I'd look for a DHF 2.8 front and maybe a Rekon+ rear? If you are riding at Beech a lot, then maybe going with a DHRII 2.8 in the back would be worthwhile, if you have the clearance for it. In any case, any of the above would be an improvement over the Ikon+ in traction especially in the wet. If you can swing 3C, then go for that in the front and rear, but especially for the front.

    If your bike isn't a plus bike and you are running standard Ikons, then think about a DHF 2.3 for the front and DHRII for the rear. The Aggressor is a nice tire, I run them, but the lack of 3C in the rear really is noticeable in the wet and I am not a huge fan of it for park riding. If you are on a hardtail, the added traction would be a benefit. The DHF 2.5 in the front may be worth consideration depending on rim width.

    Both tires will slow you down, though. The Ikon is a fairly fast rolling, lightweight XC tire, so it'll take a bit more to get going on the downhills and you'll end up using more energy to climb.

  7. #7
    B.Ike
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    30mph/rock garden/30psi/hardtail....sounds bouncy.

  8. #8
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    1. High speed/efficiency/low rolling resistance
    2. Traction

    Pick one.

    Minions will certainly give you more confidence and control in corners, but will roll considerably more slowly. If you care more about pushing your speed in corners, I'd consider upgrading. I ran Ikons for a while, but realized they were XC race tires and rode them that way.

  9. #9
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    Well, first of all you are on a hardtail, where when your rear tire goes over stuff, it'll send a "shock" through the system and try to knock your front tire loose.

    Second, it's pretty normal to run a slightly larger front tire to avoid this. Not everyone does it, I don't even do it on each of my bikes, but if you want to go faster or some additional safety factor, stagger your tire sizes.

    Third, yes, 30mph on a hardtail is going to be beating and bouncing you to hell. It's an accomplishment that you can maintain turning traction at those speeds on a hardtail, so mainly you probably need to slow down. When I did XC races on a hardtail a few years ago I was able to match the speed of FS bikes on the descents, but my control was way less and it was very precarious. I do not want to repeat that. Some younger folks can hang on much better and "take the beating", so my hat is off to them, but I cannot.

    Fourth, Icons are great tires. Supple, good traction, etc. Around 30psi with them for me helps to keep them rigid to prevent the bead collapsing and provides a good balance of traction and pinch resistance. Others that ride slower or are lighter can probably get away with less. They are pretty large volume tires for what they are, so if you are lighter you may be able to air down a bit. This adjustment would probably not be huge, so if you like you rims I wouldn't suggest taking them down to something dumb like 18psi, but you can probably go down a bit and experiment.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
    Barely in control
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    So you're doing lift served downhills on a racing hardtail. lol

  11. #11
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    Raced for years on IKONS with zero problems, never had front washout with them. First, how heavy are you? Your tire pressure sounds about right for someone #275. Second, technique is usually the culprit in a front washout. Third, sometimes stuff happens and it is unavoidable and a tire with some meat can save it.

    The only tire I have ever had a serious issue with front cornering is a Maxis Ardent, now that tire just sucked at high speed and would be better off with a slick!


    And if you are running IKON Plus tires your pressure is way off, I run 14/16 psi at #240.

  12. #12
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    Im 160-170. Ikons are 27.5x2.20s. Originally was thinking Aggressors in 27.5x2.30, but was told in my enduro racing thread that DHR2s or DHF with double down casing would be best. and what can I say, schulze, I love challenging myself.

    Thats why I plan to run all of blue ridge rocks, emerald outback and even upper black bear on the hardtail.

    That...and the fact I cant afford another bike anytime soon....as long as its so expensive as 275-300 dollar payments for strictly 12 months.

    Funny honestly how buying a Bronson or Nomad is so out of reach for me.....but yet my mx friends tell me they are only paying like 80-140 a month.

  13. #13
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    I'm running Minion DHF EXO on the front and Aggressor DD on the rear. If you are riding a lot of park I would recommend DD for you as well. I rode Rocky Knob and Beech last weekend and they both performed admirably. The only reason I washed out is be cause I hit really loose dirt and grass, other than that they are great.
    I wouldn't **** you, you're my favorite turd.

  14. #14
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    Front tire washout is technically a front to rear traction balance issue. Often it's due to poor technique (leaning back); other influencing factors are bike, tires, setup, etc but sometimes shit happens.

  15. #15
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    You should practice your high speed cornering technique on easier terrain until you master it before taking these trails so fast.
    Last edited by skiahh; 07-08-2018 at 09:03 AM.

  16. #16
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    Those aren't Ikon+s, then, they are standard Ikons. They are fairly lightweight XC-ish tires, so pretty much anything you go with will be better in terms of traction. You'll need to make sure that your rim width can accomodate wider tires before choosing a size, but usually 2.3 is fine, 2.5 might be a stretch. You'll also need to make sure it'll fit in your frame, the folks at Magic would probably be a safe bet to find out about that.

    There isn't anything wrong with Ikons, so I'd hang onto them for more pedaly bits, but they take more experience and proper technique since they are less forgiving especially with the wet season we're having right now.

    Others are right too, though, if you are washing out with the front then it's often a technique problem with your weight too far back and not centered enough. Try to focus less on your weight distribution and more about where your chest is relative to the bars, if you are spending a lot of time with your shoulders/head over the bars then you are probably too far back (except in heavy braking), in most cases you want your weight distribution to be centered and that usually means having your sternum or chest over the bars. When you get into technical/steep sections, focus on lowering your chest to the bars rather than moving back, doing so gives you more range of motion and weight distribution.

  17. #17
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    As mentioned, a lot of maintaining traction cornering is keeping the proper amount of weight forward to push the front tire down for traction. Don't over do it, but keeping your weight too far back will make the front end too light. If your rear tire breaks loose, you can usually correct it or wait for it to hook up and not go down. If your front breaks loose, you're out of control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  18. #18
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Sorry but this thread reminds me of this.

    Win! http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...ut-989270.html
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  19. #19
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    Some good advice here.

    Ikons aren't the tire for what you're doing. And when initiating a turn like you're describing, bias your weight forward. That is, put some weight into your hands to add grip to your front tire to help it bite better in the turn.
    Last edited by skiahh; 07-08-2018 at 08:55 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    Im 160-170. Ikons are 27.5x2.20s. Originally was thinking Aggressors in 27.5x2.30, but was told in my enduro racing thread that DHR2s or DHF with double down casing would be best. and what can I say, schulze, I love challenging myself.

    Thats why I plan to run all of blue ridge rocks, emerald outback and even upper black bear on the hardtail.

    That...and the fact I cant afford another bike anytime soon....as long as its so expensive as 275-300 dollar payments for strictly 12 months.

    Funny honestly how buying a Bronson or Nomad is so out of reach for me.....but yet my mx friends tell me they are only paying like 80-140 a month.
    Step 1. Don't finance a bicycle.

    Step 2. Throw a DHF on the front if you want more front end grip (excluding correcting technique issues.)

  21. #21
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    The solution is to go faster.

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