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Thread: DEAD I tell ya!

  1. #1
    SALLGUD
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well DEAD I tell ya!

    Stopped by one of my LBS today to pick up some gloves for the impending cold front this week, and I noticed there was only five or six "real" mountain bikes on the floor, compared to dozens of "real" road bikes. Had a conversation with the owner and he made it very plain that mountain biking, especially in our area, was a dead issue. He has dropped prices of his remaining mountain bikes by at least a grand to move them out. He claimed that he could buy mtb tires at unreal giveaway prices and mountain biking in general was a dead issue.

    Hmmm...We have just recently broken ground on a potential 42 mile mountain bike trail called FATS, we have six excellent trails within a 45 minute drive, and our local mtb group has reached membership numbers only dreamed about since its inception 7 years ago.

    Any wonder why so many of us love our "Local" Bike Shops that end in .com addresses?

    Michael

  2. #2
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    Maybe LBS's suffer due to our .com and ebay indulgences...I am trying to purchase some stuff locally now that I am familiar with the shop owner and employees...It isnt that local, 30 minute drive but I like them

    What kind of stuff is your LBS blowing out anyway?
    CDT

  3. #3
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    Looking at it from the wrong perspective...

    I am sorry but I am getting sick of the argument that it is the fault of us (consumer) for LBS closures/bad service/high prices/insert argument of the day here. People on this board keep asking to support your local bike shop even if it means higher prices and bad service. This is not how capitalism works people. Go back and read your Econ 101 books. The fact is that most of these shops are not finding new ways to compete and so are headed in the direction of the Dodo and the dinosaurs. Is this a bad thing? Most likely, yes it is. HOWEVER, the argument that we are causing it by buying online and at Ebay is quite simply false.

    Whose responsibility is it to retain customers? The proprietor or his consumers?
    Whose responsibility is it to find new customers/sources of revenue? Propietor or customer?

    I will not be responsible for propping up a business that is selling overpriced merchandise and adding bad service on top of it. If you wish to do so please go right ahead but stop preaching to others to STOP buying online. Fact of the matter is that LBS have several major new competitors (Online retailers and Big box retailers) and they must adapt or they will die out. The responsibillity is squarely on the shoulders of the shop owners/employers to do so. It is NOT mine or nor any other consumers responsibility. Instead of whining or bashing the online/supergo model the owners should take a close look at how these companies are doing business and emulate it where ever possible. There are plenty of good places to look for inspiration. Some LBS like AEBike and Speedgoat now do a large volume of their business on the web. (Hey if you cant beat em, join em...) Others have specialized to sell a particular item or small range of items better than anybody else. Examples: Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos or Dave at Speed Dream (Custom wheels) Some shops have simply looked to new ways to reach their customers, ex: Chad at Red Barn or Larry at Mountain High Cycles. (They have somehow gotten the word out to a lot of MTBR members. None of whom would have been customers before the internet boom) All of the above examples are shops that are doing well because they have adapted or even found a way to use the internet to help them maintain a competitive advantage instead of being made irrelevant by it.

    Its up to the other LBSs to do the same. In AZDawdrys example the LBS owner is saying MTB is a non issue, even with higher numbers of users and new trails being opened. Are you telling me that he is catering to Roadies because all the MTBers are buying from Pricepoint and Supergo? I highly doubt it. Any further comments by me would only be speculation and I will not go there. Still, I doubt he would be saying MTB is dead if he was filling a specific niche within the market or offering outstanding service to the mountain bike community.

    Just my .02

    C-
    Last edited by CDtofer; 12-06-2005 at 01:43 AM. Reason: forgot something...

  4. #4
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    It’s all about competition.

    It’s all about differentiation from the competition.

    It’s good for the consumer.

  5. #5
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    Well even here several of the shops have started augmenting business with a stronger road element. None of them though would declare mtb dead, though.

    Money flows to a growth sport. Road biking is currently a growth sport; mountain biking is a flat sport. The ebb and flow of business cannot buck such tides.

    hfly

  6. #6
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    Makes me wonder how many of those road bikes your shop is selling are being sold to MTBers who got into the sport within the last 5 years or so and are now branching out.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  7. #7
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    Good, less people on the trails.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=CDtofer]I am sorry but I am getting sick of the argument that it is the fault of us (consumer) for LBS closures/bad service/high prices/insert argument of the day here.....(Big Snip)......

    Here, Here, great post! When I want to spend MY hard earned dollars for parts or a new bike, I want to get the most for my money. If I have to go online to do it so be it. The LBS needs to adapt to changing times to survive. As for being mountain biking being dead, I think the proprieter of that store has an attitude problem and probably should be getting out of the business. The rest of us will keep on riding till they pry our cold dead fingers off our handle bars!


    Mark
    Ride the bike.

  9. #9
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    Sour Grapes

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrid
    As for being mountain biking being dead, I think the proprieter of that store has an attitude problem and probably should be getting out of the business.

    Mark
    I read between the lines on the original post and have a similar opinion. The LBS owner obviously has some issue with MTB. It may be a competitive business issue, or it could be that he just doesn't like the MTB customer. Whatever the case, let him get out of supporting us, and tend to roadies.

    MTB is not dead, in fact it's far from it. The sport continues to be popular and in many respects gaining in popularity. So much that perhaps the competition is getting too hot for some retailers.

    Just my thoughts as always.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDtofer
    I am sorry but I am getting sick of the argument that it is the fault of us (consumer) for LBS closures/bad service/high prices/insert argument of the day here. People on this board keep asking to support your local bike shop even if it means higher prices and bad service. This is not how capitalism works people. Go back and read your Econ 101 books... (read the psot for the rest)C-
    Dude, thank you for possibly the most articulate argument I have read/heard concerning the whole LBS vs. online shopping issue! It's very simple either change or become extinct.

  11. #11
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    "He has dropped prices of his remaining mountain bikes by at least a grand to move them out. He claimed that he could buy mtb tires at unreal giveaway prices..."

    So, ummm.... Where exactly IS this shop?

  12. #12
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    Cool-blue Rhythm The real message.

    The real problem here is that my wife and I routinely drive 2-4 hours away to spend money at bike shops that stock and enjoy talking mountain biking. I also do a ton of .com business, but if I have a day off and want to go touch some parts/pieces and ride a new trail, we load up the Sportworks rack and take off. There's always a Mo's or some other Mexican food joint to fuel up before the ride.

    If you are fortunate enough to have a LBS whose employees show up for trail maintenance or your monthly meetings or even group trail rides, then by all means support them. I guess I am just frustrated about living in an area that has unlimited mountain biking potential and a burgeoning mtb advocate group, but our LBS don't seem to want to be a part of us.

    In this case, the truth hurts. You guys up near Atlanta and Woodstock and Columbia have bike shop employees that ride and maintain trails. Be thankful.

    Michael

  13. #13
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDtofer
    I am sorry but I am getting sick of the argument that it is the fault of us (consumer) for LBS closures/bad service/high prices/insert argument of the day here. People on this board keep asking to support your local bike shop even if it means higher prices and bad service. This is not how capitalism works people. Go back and read your Econ 101 books. The fact is that most of these shops are not finding new ways to compete and so are headed in the direction of the Dodo and the dinosaurs. Is this a bad thing? Most likely, yes it is. HOWEVER, the argument that we are causing it by buying online and at Ebay is quite simply false.

    Whose responsibility is it to retain customers? The proprietor or his consumers?
    Whose responsibility is it to find new customers/sources of revenue? Propietor or customer?

    I will not be responsible for propping up a business that is selling overpriced merchandise and adding bad service on top of it. If you wish to do so please go right ahead but stop preaching to others to STOP buying online. Fact of the matter is that LBS have several major new competitors (Online retailers and Big box retailers) and they must adapt or they will die out. The responsibillity is squarely on the shoulders of the shop owners/employers to do so. It is NOT mine or nor any other consumers responsibility. Instead of whining or bashing the online/supergo model the owners should take a close look at how these companies are doing business and emulate it where ever possible. There are plenty of good places to look for inspiration. Some LBS like AEBike and Speedgoat now do a large volume of their business on the web. (Hey if you cant beat em, join em...) Others have specialized to sell a particular item or small range of items better than anybody else. Examples: Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos or Dave at Speed Dream (Custom wheels) Some shops have simply looked to new ways to reach their customers, ex: Chad at Red Barn or Larry at Mountain High Cycles. (They have somehow gotten the word out to a lot of MTBR members. None of whom would have been customers before the internet boom) All of the above examples are shops that are doing well because they have adapted or even found a way to use the internet to help them maintain a competitive advantage instead of being made irrelevant by it.

    Its up to the other LBSs to do the same. In AZDawdrys example the LBS owner is saying MTB is a non issue, even with higher numbers of users and new trails being opened. Are you telling me that he is catering to Roadies because all the MTBers are buying from Pricepoint and Supergo? I highly doubt it. Any further comments by me would only be speculation and I will not go there. Still, I doubt he would be saying MTB is dead if he was filling a specific niche within the market or offering outstanding service to the mountain bike community.

    Just my .02

    C-
    Nowhere did I see anything about supporting bad service at a shop, or doing 100% of my shopping there. I just think a good LBS offers things an online retailer cannot.Ultimately there will be some sort of middle ground reached, and hopefully each of us will have at least one GOOD LBS to deal with......if only for bikes and their service..Maybe everything else will be only online ...But the convenience is worth something...to me

    BTW if you have a decent LBS locally , you are not "PROPPING" them up, you are supporting them, I see the extension of your line of thinking to be penny-wise and pound foolish, in the long run..
    I agree with you, in a limited respect, in terms of shopping online, but I do try to support Mike's bikes locally...They are nice people, they ride the local trails, they do trail maintenance, lobby for more trails with the Park district...They are good to have around and for that very reason I will spend some money there .

    Tony

    (by the way, I like how you lit the 'speculative match' about AZDawdry's LBS, refused to go there, then Went there )

  14. #14
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    Well, I don't think I should or will support a LBS that gives crappy service. But that goes also for online retailers. I go to a LBS that I trust to get service done that I don't know how to do (I'm learning) or don't have the right tools for. So, if possible, I preffer using a LBS, besides, I can walk out with the thing I was searching for. But, I'm not fighted with my wallet, so if there's something that makes sense buying online, then I'll use the online channel. LBS should adapt to this, maybe expanding to online channel if they're big enough.

    As to the OP post meaning that MTB is dead.... I've heard in a LBS that freeriding was killing MTB (meaning, it was reemplacing it). I think that mountain bike will not be as popular as soccer (in Mexico) or American Football or basket ball or tennis. But that doesn't mean it's going on a decline. Maybe on some areas it may be growing, on some it may be diminishing (maybe trail closings, don't know), but I think it's gaining more popularity little by little.

  15. #15
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    I do think the industry is partly to blame. I think the big company's such as Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc have a good policy as to not let internet sales. But when you have a local LBS try'n to compete with a company that has a lot more buying power and is allowed to sell via the internet how do you compete? I'm not talking about parts but complete bikes. Most large industries ie: Cars. Motorcycles, Tractors, Industrial Equipment etc. . protect their dealer for a given area. Parts and or replacement parts and labor are fair game. Thats where service and price come into play. (How many ppl buy tires for their car from a dealership?) I know that there are alot of bike mfg out there but it has to start somewhere.
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  16. #16
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    A few points.

    1. Your shop owner is right. Mountain biking is dead. Comparatively speaking, if you were going to be a retailer, you'd be either in a very unique location, or you'd be a fool to start an mtb shop. Without consulting BRAIN, what was it, 78% of bikes sold in the US last year were road bikes? The lions share. The average purchase price of those road bikes was also much higher than the average mtb sale. Whether this was the crest of the Lance wave or not, this isn't the first time there's been a road biking boom. Actually, last time this happened, it took a few years, till people realized hey, you know, this MTBing looks like fun, and MTBing exploded with new blood. This is seen by many as either the best or worst thing that ever happened to mountain biking. Whether or not that will happen again only time will tell. The mtb world is a different place now, of course, so even if it does happen, it still wont be a nice & predictable repeat.

    2. Mountain bikers as a customer base have a finely honed reputation as being, well, to put it mildly, cheap. Without going so far as to talk to dealers, take a look around at the road bike forums. What are the roadies proud of? Building and fine-tuning every last bolt of their total custom bike. What are mountain bikers so often proud of? The ride they just went on. Oh, & the bike? The deal they got. Talk to dealers, and they will by & large complain of being nickled-&-dimed to death on an $800 mtb hippie kids, when successful business people come in and purchase high end road rigs at full sticker price, no questions asked. Guess which crowd are more appealing to a seller... there's obviously a lot of stereotyping going on, but guess where the stereotype came from? They'll say experience.

    3. You could just as easily explain to your dealer that they are in fact dead. The days when people will pay a 35-40% margin to a bike shop on a product that requires next to zero skill to sell are coming to an end. As more & more online resources educate cyclists, the role of the LBS middleman is slowly being cut out. There will always be people who will prefer a service shop to work on their bikes. There will always be people who prefer to buy a bike in person. Just less and less of them, as time goes by. Already, we are seeing an unwillingness to pay for product made in the united states. More & more companies offering direct sales is the next step.
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  17. #17
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    I really don't think that the lack of a few high-end mountain bikers missing from the lbs's are going to ruin their businesses. When I worked at a shop (providing only the best possible service, of course!) we were doing just fine rolling many many $200-$500 bikes out the door and a ton of accessories (where the real profits are) to go with them. There are tons of casual bikers out there who wouldn't dream of buying stuff online because they have no idea what to buy or how to install it. Mr. Shake, some people don't want to search online for education on a bike part. It's a waste of their time. For those riders with little know-how, it's just easier to go to the LBS and talk with someone about a bike or a brake or a roof rack or the weird noise coming from their wheel or whatever, even if they pay a little more for it. I think some people grossly overestimate the value of that interaction.

    That being said, poor service is poor service. If an LBS can't provide good service or change with the times, they don't deserve to last very long. Likewise, if an online retailer can't provide very good service (pricepoint, anyone?) despite their low prices, they're still not doing their less-knowledgable customers any favors. They'll just end up back at the LBS, who'll make money either by installing the part (cha-ching!) or by selling them the correct part they needed in the first place.

    So lots of people here can buy all the stuff they want online, and it definitely doesn't mean that LBS's are dead. Just ask the LBS who's sending $2000 road bikes out the door as fast as he can stock them. A well run shop will live through changing trends without much worry and without having to grow an online arm. Online stores can do very well selling to high end deal-hunters with the technical knowledge, while LBS's can live comfortably selling oodles of comfort and road bikes and accessories to the casual biker.

    Now as far as MTB being dead: You'll have to pry my riser bars out of my cold dead hands!

  18. #18
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    Just thought I would check back in...

    AZDawdry,
    I did not mean to hijack the original intent of your post and know I went a bit off topic. It was just that the second poster brought up a topic I keep hearing a lot about on this board and well, you know, it was a slow morning at work and well....

    CDale,
    I know he did not mention bad service in his post. I was responding to your post and his plus a lot of others that I have seen recently that have said we are bad MTBrs because we dont pay full retail and put up with BS at our LBS. Wasnt calling you out at all. I do agree that supporting a good shop is worth your tme, I guess I have never found one. (Not saying I have never been to a good shop, its just Ive never been to a good local one) I too like to browse shops and touch the goods and enjoy talking to staff that is knowledgeable and friendly. No where in my post was I implying all LBSs are bad. Its just that I am an educated consumer and will not pay full retail on last years item just so I can talk to the guy selling it to me face to face. I know what I want and I buy it, and do so where I can get the best price. Thus I think the intent of my original post still is valid, I dont agree that it is, "Penny wise, pound foolish." I dont have one like Speedgoat nearby that deals mainly with custom builds. I wish I did, I wish there were more great LBS out there. This may better explain where I am coming from.

    Master Shakes third point would have been a great addition to my original post. (Wish I would have thought it through enough to get there)

    Oh and yeah, you got me there with your last point.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdaleTony
    I agree with you, in a limited respect, in terms of shopping online, but I do try to support Mike's bikes locally...They are nice people, they ride the local trails, they do trail maintenance, lobby for more trails with the Park district...They are good to have around and for that very reason I will spend some money there .
    This I wanted to comment on, you are absolutely right about this. I agree totally. If I lived somewhere that had a shop that actually went out and bettered the MTB community I would support these efforts. Unfortunately, I have never had a LBS that was so involved outside of their shop walls. What I was trying to saying my post was that if more shops did this (or sponsored racers, ran local group rides from the shop parking lot, etc.) They wouldnt be complaining about MTB being dead or competition from online retailers. These types of activities would supply the shop with a source of new customers.

  20. #20
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    Cool!

    More trails for me

  21. #21
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    In my area there are several Mt Bike specific shops. I dont buy from the shops that carry both, because they tend to lean more towards road. The stock is incredible in the MT specific shops compared to those who do both. Seems that they can do a better job for there customers by focusing in one area. Atleast around here it works well for the Mt shops and the roadie shops. And to be honest, the personalities seem to be differant between the two. My local Mt shop had a record year. Alive and well in the Bay Area.

    Sean

  22. #22
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    I own an LBS. I see biking from a slightly different angle from most riders out there. No, internet sales are not solely responcible for the decline of LBS. A lot of it is due to the unwillingness to change with the times. I started out working in a shop that didn't have internet for instance. Think about that one for a minute. I get it. What internet sales havedone, however, is create a much more price conciencious buyer. Is that a bad thing? Not really, you just have to expect the kind of service you pay for. If someone has a problem with something I sell, they come to me. Period. What, the wheels you bought online came bent in the box? Headset bearings don't work anymore for some unexplanied reason? That's too bad. I'm not begrudging anyone who buys stuff online. If you have problems with the stuff though, don't come to my shop and try and get me to fix it for free. That's what you get at a LBS. You get the service. That and the fun stuff to look at. If you're comparing tires, what's better, a 1x2 inch picture, or picking both of them up in person? Is that worth paying $5 more for? You be the judge. If it saves me $30 by picking the right one, it'd be worth it to me. For me it all revolves around customer service. If I can match an online retailer's price, I will. It's still a sale. However, if I can't, I'll tell the customer to go buy it there. If I'm upfront and honest about it, most people will recognize that and return to my store in the future. I guess it's ultimately up to you. There are bad LBS around. If you have one of those, I understand completely, I've been there to. There's not enough said about a good LBS relationship though. It can be one of the best things about MTBing IMAO.

    Besides, after hot ride, who would you rather have a beer with: The guy who fixed your flat on the trail for free, because he could just do it faster? Or your telephone? You decide.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    ... There's not enough said about a good LBS relationship though. It can be one of the best things about MTBing IMAO.

    Besides, after hot ride, who would you rather have a beer with: The guy who fixed your flat on the trail for free, because he could just do it faster? Or your telephone? You decide.
    You are 100% right. I have a GREAT LBS and I try to send as much business their way as possible. The owners are honest, not condescending and a blast to go riding with.

    I just got a large insurance settlement for a bike and gear that was stolen and I spent almost every dime locally. Sure there was some stuff I ordered online, but only stuff that I got a smokin deal on. Out of $4500 spent, I probably spent less than $200 online.


    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake
    2. Mountain bikers as a customer base have a finely honed reputation as being, well, to put it mildly, cheap. Without going so far as to talk to dealers, take a look around at the road bike forums. What are the roadies proud of? Building and fine-tuning every last bolt of their total custom bike. What are mountain bikers so often proud of? The ride they just went on. Oh, & the bike? The deal they got. Talk to dealers, and they will by & large complain of being nickled-&-dimed to death on an $800 mtb hippie kids, when successful business people come in and purchase high end road rigs at full sticker price, no questions asked. Guess which crowd are more appealing to a seller... there's obviously a lot of stereotyping going on, but guess where the stereotype came from? They'll say experience.
    I also agree with this. I think roadies tend to be somewhat older and able to spend more money. I can't imagine a lot of high school aged kids dreaming about getting a top-line road bike (more power to them if they do!), but I imagine a lot of kids would die to get a new top-line downhill rig. High school and college aged kids just can't afford to drop a ton of money into riding. I could be wrong though.

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  24. #24
    Ass-kickin chili fixins
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I own an LBS.
    yah, we know. All that work you've been doing trying to get some sales off these forums hasn't gone unnoticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I started out working in a shop that didn't have internet for instance. Think about that one for a minute. I get it.
    I don't. What's your point here?

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    You just have to expect the kind of service you pay for. If someone has a problem with something I sell, they come to me. Period. What, the wheels you bought online came bent in the box? Headset bearings don't work anymore for some unexplanied reason? That's too bad. I'm not begrudging anyone who buys stuff online. If you have problems with the stuff though, don't come to my shop and try and get me to fix it for free. That's what you get at a LBS. You get the service.
    Well, for a 46% markup, I'd better get fully "serviced". But I haven't. A little background. I recently added it up, and realized I've purchased in the last 20 years, about $200,000 of bike equipment. And I've bought from all over. I've actually had wheels come in bent via mail order, among other things. And in every case, I've sent them back, and within a few days, I have another brand new set. I have ordered many wheels through shops, and not only does it take 3 times as long for them to arrive, but when product arrives damaged, it's weeks before I get a replacement. And of all the issues I have ever had over the years with anything purchased as an ordinary customer from an LBS, I have never once had a shop offer to fix anything for free, no matter where I have been. The shops I've worked at were not charities either, which is how they viewed such requests. We were always happy to provide service. Service is billable. Perhaps you have a more generous shop than most. If you do, you'll probably be a smashing sucess, or at least you'll have a massive following, as it seems as time goes by, there are less and less shops that people like to go into. The only shop I have ever dealt with that has been as pleasant and helpful as you describe is 7 states away, in North Carolina. At this point, if there's something I can't do myself, I gladly box it up, send it to First Flight, and have them do the work. It's that bad around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Besides, after hot ride, who would you rather have a beer with: The guy who fixed your flat on the trail for free, because he could just do it faster? Or your telephone? You decide.
    If it came down to hanging around with a bunch of ego-stroking, ill-informed, know-it-all shop rats after a ride, then any cold piece of plastic is better company. If the people who worked at the shops around here actually rode, that would be yet something else. But they don't. They might as well work in a shoe store for all they care. Hanging out is for friends, and riding buddies. I offer to fix peoples flats any time I see someone, and no, I don't charge them. It's normal trail etiquitte out here. If someone stopped me changing my tube, though, and said they could do it faster, I'd probably tell them to stuff it. But then I'm feelin ornery at the moment.
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    Bontrager Privateer (NOS)

    Kalloy 27.4 seat post

    Tranz-X quick releases (purple)

  25. #25
    Florida Rider
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    Road biking is boring anyway...

  26. #26
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    Interesting topic and as with a lot of things - it is becoming a buyers market. Personally I spread my very limited wealth- If I find a steal on ebay- I buy it, If an on-line shop has a great deal w/ free shipping- I buy it.(not to mention the free day dreaming mags) I do, however, consider myself very lucky in the fact that there are two great rider- owned, rider- run lbs' in my area. I try to keep it as local as possible and these shops make it pretty easy.

  27. #27
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    yah, we know. All that work you've been doing trying to get some sales off these forums hasn't gone unnoticed.
    I build a fun bike for myself, I post pictures. People ask questions, I answer. How is this different from anyone else? Once someone asked where my shop is. I get almost no business whatsoever from these forums, I post here for fun, like everyone else. And where the hell do you get off? What the F***?! Do you know me? Have we met? What give you the right to judge me based on a few messeges on a site somewhere?

    I don't. What's your point here?
    My point, everyone has dealt with bad shops. A lot of us have worked at them. Was that so had to figure out?

    If it came down to hanging around with a bunch of ego-stroking, ill-informed, know-it-all shop rats after a ride, then any cold piece of plastic is better company. If the people who worked at the shops around here actually rode, that would be yet something else. But they don't. They might as well work in a shoe store for all they care. Hanging out is for friends, and riding buddies. I offer to fix peoples flats any time I see someone, and no, I don't charge them. It's normal trail etiquitte out here. If someone stopped me changing my tube, though, and said they could do it faster, I'd probably tell them to stuff it. But then I'm feelin ornery at the moment.
    Finally, what are you talking about? Ego stroking, ill informed shop rats? Why don't you just use your six tubs of vaseline to go sit in a corner and make yourself happy. Who the f*** are you? If you have a problem with me, or anything I do, come meet me, call me or email me. Talk to me like a man, don't be a F'ing ***** and attack my credablity without merit.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  28. #28
    Hey, wait up!
    Reputation: LCdaveH's Avatar
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    Fwiw

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    ....
    Benwitt,

    I enjoyed your postings and appreciate the perspective of someone who is actually in the business of bikes.

    I like my LBSs and go there whenever I can. I usually get 7.5% to 10% off, and that gesture is enough to keep me from the hassle of computer shopping.

    My only frustration is when I want that special little something that the LBS doesn't have. Then I'm likely to hit the .com shops.

    Where is your store (you can PM the info if you like). If I'm in your stretch of the trail, I'd like to stop in.

    .d.

  29. #29
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    Thanks man. It's nice to see that some people on here are still civilized. Of course people aren't allways going to find what they're looking for a LBS. I go elsewhere to get "special stuff" all the time. It's just the nature of any business. No one place is going to have everything from everybody.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  30. #30
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    he's got a point re road riding

    I ride on the road a lot more now than MTB, tho I race mtb. Most all my riding buddies ride more & more on the road. It comes down to time. We all work, have kids & spouses/Exs. We don't have time to drive 1/2, or 1 hour back & forth to the trail for a 2 hour ride. We can get in a 3 hr or more ride on the road. We can talk, keep the HRs up high, get in climbing, etc. all on the road. Sure we like to ride the MTB and do so in Fuita, CB etc. But day in/day out we are roadriding. So, I think that is reflected out there at the LBS.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCdaveH
    Benwitt,

    I enjoyed your postings and appreciate the perspective of someone who is actually in the business of bikes.
    .d.
    ditto that.

    Don't let them get ya down man, just move on.

    Keep posting, and keep us apprised of all the cool stuff ya got. I'm still FREAKED over that Titus Exogrid 29er you said you are keeping as store stock, and those Industry Nine wheels...YOU DA MAN!!

  32. #32
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    Here's the thing, if I find out about new stuff that comes out, I want to tell people. Right? I don't see this as trying to sell people stuff directly from my shop. It'd be nice.... but it's not that at all. It's just fun new stuff period. I'll keep posting stuff if people want to keep reading it. Thanks.

    Ben
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  33. #33
    Who's that guy?
    Reputation: Darkan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake
    If it came down to hanging around with a bunch of ego-stroking, ill-informed, know-it-all shop rats after a ride, then any cold piece of plastic is better company. If the people who worked at the shops around here actually rode, that would be yet something else. But they don't. They might as well work in a shoe store for all they care. Hanging out is for friends, and riding buddies. I offer to fix peoples flats any time I see someone, and no, I don't charge them. It's normal trail etiquitte out here. If someone stopped me changing my tube, though, and said they could do it faster, I'd probably tell them to stuff it. But then I'm feelin ornery at the moment.
    Wow...just, wow.

    If I had to choose between riding with the owner of the shop where I bought my bike, who is a great guy and jumps right in to do any adjustments on my bike when we are on a break during a ride, or any LBS owner that is passionate about riding, versus someone who is looking to b**ch and complain and who is feeling "ornery at the moment", I sure know who I would rather ride with.

    Slow and steady gets you...7th place.


    "Hey! Where is everybody going??"

  34. #34
    ...
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    I just cant keep away from this post...

    Benwitt,
    First, let me say that your post was a good counterpoint to mine. The fact that you understand the competition and try to compete with it, ie matching something seen online if possible means you get my point. You are doing what is necessary to keep your customers and by coming to MTBR you are looking to increase your customer base. I dont think its trolling, just good business sense and I doubt most people would mind you showing off new stuff. I sure wouldnt. Dont get dragged into the petty arguments as your initial post was very well thought out. No sense getting dragged into a mudfight.

    Oh, and I feel for you if people come in to your shop and want you to fix someone elses mistake. Unfortunately that is just par for the course for most people, they dont want to take personal responsibility for their own actions. You wouldnt catch me dead trying to get a free handout from a shop I never bought something at. I would either eat it or ship it back.

    Also like the other poster asked where is your shop? Got a website? You know I buy stuff online...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdrawdy
    Hmmm...We have just recently broken ground on a potential 42 mile mountain bike trail called FATS, we have six excellent trails within a 45 minute drive, and our local mtb group has reached membership numbers only dreamed about since its inception 7 years ago.

    Any wonder why so many of us love our "Local" Bike Shops that end in .com addresses?

    Michael
    I am involved in the FATS construction.

    We have had 21 volunteer days, 10 of which have been on Sundays. 60 people have pitched in 629 hours. All this since Aug 11th, 2005.

    I have invited 3 of the 4 LBS (the other one is worthless) to the Sunday workdays. And to date have seen exactly ZERO of the owners work on this trail. To date, we have had one employee of these shops.

    So, I look at like this. We are buidling miles of trail 20-30 minutes from these three shops. And to date, the score is tied at 0 between the amount of help we have gotten from LBS Owners and the internet/mail order houses. This hardly motivates me to patronize any of these shops.

    Here's a picture of something the crew built last week.


  36. #36
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    CDtofer-

    Sure, I'd love to get some customers, I like informing people about what's new. I didn't want to get dragged into a stupid spat, he just really irked me for some reason. I appologize for my language. I was just never raised to talk to people like that.

    The main reason I come here is for the chance to talk to people. Part of that is due to my location. My shop is in a town called Faribault, in Southern MN. It's a very blue collor town with a population of right around 20,000. I'm about 45 min away from Minneapolis/St Paul. Fact is, there aren't many serious riders in town. Most people equate a snowmobile or two to what you do for fun. Throw in a few dirtbikes, (nothing against them just making a point,) and you basically sum up recreational fun. It is very hard to explain to people why you would spend thousands of dollars on something, as many people put it, that doesn't have a motor. So I come here. I can talk to people from every walk of life, old and young, from all over the country. I love reading about rides people have taken, and flipping through pictures of trails I wish I could ride. That's it for me. MTBR saves me from going nuts most of the winter.

    My shop will have a website, it's going to be www.milltowncycle.com It sould be up by the end of the year.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  37. #37
    just along for the ride
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    Not only boring but it kills and cripples many due to sharing the road with CARS/COFFINS. In the past year here in our county (very bike friendly) there has been 5 death of roadies, one even got hit on an empty country road by somebody drunk that crossed the double yellow to get him IN BROAD DAYLIGHT in front of his 6 year old son, luckily that betch is going to jail to rot! Our local hottie spin teacher (as in she is fast on anything she rides) just got hit on her road bike out for months, shoulder, might never be competative again. Once word gets out that the road is the killing fields of bicylists, road bike sales will begin to slump and mtn bike begin to climb, JMHO!

  38. #38
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake
    If it came down to hanging around with a bunch of ego-stroking, ill-informed, know-it-all shop rats after a ride, then any cold piece of plastic is better company. If the people who worked at the shops around here actually rode, that would be yet something else. But they don't. They might as well work in a shoe store for all they care. Hanging out is for friends, and riding buddies. I offer to fix peoples flats any time I see someone, and no, I don't charge them. It's normal trail etiquitte out here. If someone stopped me changing my tube, though, and said they could do it faster, I'd probably tell them to stuff it. But then I'm feelin ornery at the moment.
    Who pissed in your Froot Loops? As for Ben - keep postin' man. If your shop was close to me I'd be hangin' 'round and bringin' beer and pizza all the time (hi, my name is Rob, and I'm a bike addict).
    Just another nighthawk at the diner

    Rock -n-roll means well but it can't help tellin' young boys lies...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenvic
    I am involved in the FATS construction.

    We have had 21 volunteer days, 10 of which have been on Sundays. 60 people have pitched in 629 hours. All this since Aug 11th, 2005.

    I have invited 3 of the 4 LBS (the other one is worthless) to the Sunday workdays. And to date have seen exactly ZERO of the owners work on this trail. To date, we have had one employee of these shops.

    So, I look at like this. We are buidling miles of trail 20-30 minutes from these three shops. And to date, the score is tied at 0 between the amount of help we have gotten from LBS Owners and the internet/mail order houses. This hardly motivates me to patronize any of these shops.

    Here's a picture of something the crew built last week.


    Does most of your trail work get done on weekends? Thats when the local advocy group around here does trail work.
    LBS probably has the busy time on weekends as far a customers dropping by to pick up bikes or just looking. HMMMM why aren't they working on weekends on the trail?

  40. #40
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    My LBS owners would help, but one is too old(still rides road, but no heavy lifting in trailwork). The other is too busy working at his shop or managing it(by local, I mean 3 people work there).

  41. #41
    Lawyer Time! No Comment.
    Reputation: flyingsuperpetis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobW
    Who pissed in your Froot Loops? As for Ben - keep postin' man. If your shop was close to me I'd be hangin' 'round and bringin' beer and pizza all the time (hi, my name is Rob, and I'm a bike addict).
    Shake's an ornery stooge (hey shaka), but he's cool. in real life, he's a breeze, but there are a few issues he knows about from firsthand experience, and he takes them to heart. As usual, he holds nothing back, for better or worse.
    Nothing left to lose, & half mad.

  42. #42
    SALLGUD
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    Alternating days

    The work days have been alternating between Saturday and Sunday. On Sundays, some of the work days have been in the morning, and some have been done in the afternoon to give the "church group" an opportunity to come out and help.

    The dates are also prominently displayed on the SORBA/CSRA website so everyone can make work party plans that suit them.

    Michael

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