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  1. #1
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    Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?

    I have quite bit $$$$ invested in my bike. While I have done so, I do not like riding it on muddy days. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy riding on muddy days. I just find that after doing so; I spend a large amount of time cleaning it real well because if I don't it doesn't seem to shift/brake/ etc as well. Also, with how much $$$$ I spent and how nice looking it is I just don't like to leave it that way.

    I am actually thinking of building up a "beater" bike especially for muddy days. Has anyone else done this? A bike you really don't "care" about.

    I have a bunch of parts laying around. All I'd really need to buy is a used frame & fork

    .Then again maybe I'm just an anal clean freak?

  2. #2
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    I think you may be slightly erring on the side of "Anal clean freak"

    More power to you though, I think that if you want to keep your bike and certain way and can afford a cheap beater style bike, and get enough mud that it's worth it, why not.

    Having a beater bike will probably make you appreciate your blingy bike more, and maybe make your technique better if you get a beater thats fully rigid.
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  3. #3
    Mountain Man Dan
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    I'm an anal clean freak also. I will not ride on wet/muddy days. Damp, sure. But anything where there is a lot of puddles, nope.
    The bike is nothing more then circles turning circles, It's the human motor that makes it elegant.

  4. #4
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    I am not a member of the "Bikes As Jewelry" crowd.

    My bikes get ridden in the slop.

    Sometimes they get hosed off afterward. Usually not.


  5. #5
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    Daaamn you guys are weird... the mud makes it that much better!

    Of course, I don't have to worry about shifting because I run singlespeed. Before the conversion I did notice that muddy chains and cables don't shift as well though.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
    zrm
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    I avoid muddy trals because I don't like to trash our trails.

  8. #8
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    A few minutes before I get home from a ride I phone my wife and she greets me in the driveway with brush, bucket of soapy water and water hose in hand. By the time I have gone inside and showered she has dried and stowed my bike and is ready for my massage. Then it's on to a gourmet dinner replete with candles, soft music and logs burning in the fireplace.

    Then, dammit, I alway wake up and never know what she does next.

  9. #9
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    Have a bike for almost any condition or trail.
    My beater bike would be the Kona Coilair.
    Hell I wouldnt mind leaving it on the mountain if it broke..

  10. #10
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    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Have a bike for almost any condition or trail.
    My beater bike would be the Kona Coilair.
    Hell I wouldnt mind leaving it on the mountain if it broke..
    I can haz one?
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245
    I can haz one?
    trade?

    I see the future of this thread. it looks bleak. Here comes all the trail advocacy hypocrites.

  13. #13
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    In Colorado anyway, we're continually battling hikers to maintain our access. Its a serious matter, at least in Colorado. If a rider doesn't have access issues in their area they are fortunate. But there's nothing hypocritical about not making it easier for hikers to get bikes banned or for allowing access difficulties to emerge where there were none by trashing trails. If anyone's hypocritical its the hikers who can hike in the mud without ramifications.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.
    there are trails I stay off of on rainy days- built by and maintained by mt bikers (and some hikers) and there are some old dare I say abandoned trails that only get visited by diehard bikers. Not sure if its the soil in these places or what, but riding on muddy days never seems to really hurt them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    I avoid muddy trals because I don't like to trash our trails.

    Yea I have been trying to ban Rain/snow melt for some time but I realize its not going to be easy, it just keeps coming and eroding, what gives?

  16. #16
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    No.

  17. #17
    "Oldfart from Wayback"
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    The last group ride I ever did, I thought it F 'n hilarious, at one of the most popular trails in "The Front Range" of CO, Youngs Gulch, that features 30+ stream crossings in 4 mi. each way, that the guy that kept telling us how much his $$$$ bike cost spent more time carrying than riding so 'His Precious" wouldn't get wet/ muddy.

    Why spend that kind of money if you won't ride it ?

    It's an MTB, not an Escalade, if you catch my sarcasm..

  18. #18
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    I never wash my bike... bikes are made to be ridden!! that being said, I do always maintain it so it works when I need it to!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    It's an MTB, not an Escalade, if you catch my sarcasm..
    He probably drives a Escalade to the trailhead..

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    Yea I have been trying to ban Rain/snow melt for some time but I realize its not going to be easy, it just keeps coming and eroding, what gives?

    this^
    |

  21. #21
    Big Gulps, Alright!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.
    +1. Take a day off if it's that muddy.
    Axle Standards Explained

    Founder at North Atlantic Dirt, riding & writing about trails in the northeast.

  22. #22
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    get a cheap singlespeed ( I ride a Redline Monocog) and ride it like you stole it.
    No, I don't condone riding in muddy trails if the area is sensitive to erosion, but every once in a while I'll go ride in a popular trail that sees heavy use and when it's raining or has snowed, like last time, I whish I had taken the singlespeed. Less maintenance for sure!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    The last group ride I ever did, I thought it F 'n hilarious, at one of the most popular trails in "The Front Range" of CO, Youngs Gulch, that features 30+ stream crossings in 4 mi. each way, that the guy that kept telling us how much his $$$$ bike cost spent more time carrying than riding so 'His Precious" wouldn't get wet/ muddy.

    Why spend that kind of money if you won't ride it ?

    It's an MTB, not an Escalade, if you catch my sarcasm..
    I've never seen a creek crossing that results in alot of mud getting on the bike. Usually the opposite, cleans the bike off a bit. I ride mud and enjoy it, just wish I had a separate cheaper bike for days that I know are going to be muddy- which can happen alot in the northeast. When my current bike gets muddy I just feel like I SHOULD wash it after a ride, which can take a while to do right. If I had a beater built up I'm sure I wouldn't care about it. Same way I don't care that our minivan is a mess but I clean & take care of our nice car religiously.

  24. #24
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    Do I speak for myself when I say this?

    I totally understand the point of not riding on trails when it's wet. Any pressure/traction will wash away the dirt. But my local trails are mostly pseudo-paved multi-use fireroads. They're paved, but no longer maintained, and are collapsing/sinking in places. Obviously, the rain can't harm the pavement as much as dirt. The only dirt on the trails is dirt that's washed downhill in storms, and that's the only dirt I see in storms (After a while, the trails become hardpack, and I stay off those during the rains).

    Is there anything wrong with riding paved fireroads and getting muddy from mud that shouldn't be there in the first place?
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  25. #25
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    Cheap ss here for winter/wet riding. Simple, less moving stuff, easier cleanup, great workout.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  26. #26
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    The old race bike is the new mud bike

    Mud as a mechanical or aesthetic hinderance to riding is not the issue. While we have the worst clay mud in the world here no one is stupid enough to rid in it after they've doen it once.

    No the real problem comes from riding in the places open to us in the winter. The natural rock and subsequent soil drain well and provide a pretty decent surface for riding considering it is winter. Yet the fine particulate nature of what breaks down gets into three forms. One is a slurry, much akin to a paste used for grinding and polishing. Next is suspension in water. Last is your basic grit.

    I have ridden bikes for years int these conditions. The effect on rims was erosive, on paint with the help of cables penetration went to the metal. It intrudes into housings and lodges internally in all components. Its not good, but if that is where you can ride and you want to ride, that will be the effect. The effect is really noticed when running a team on Sunday and having them show up Monday for a recovery ride and see the damage cosmetically adn experience the poor operation of the components. Most local riders simply manage this with diligent maintenance.

    My son's race bike is a Yeti Arc, XTR, DT Swiss/Chris King, Marta Magura, Fox RL with carbon wherever it makes sense. Whenever crummy conditions arise he uses his old Spec M4 XT, Bomber, Marta front/v-brake rear, mixed wheels. Even that is a pretty nice, though a stiff crate of a frame, always in fine tune, but it takes the hit.

  27. #27
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    With 9 months of rain/mud here in the Pacific Northwest my everyday bike see's a lot of mud. I'm just diligent with maintenance and I've never had any problems. We do have preferred winter trails that drain well but mud is a fact of life here...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.
    No.

  29. #29
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    I actually enjoy "trying" to ride thru the mud. It makes for a different challenge. I don't mind at all cleaning and relubing it up again,..its just, it can take alot of time. Time that I don't have cuz of family obligations and stuff. So having a muddy crash test bike on the side sounds like a great idea,....I'll check out the Wal mart bikes tomorrow

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.
    As with most sweeping generalizations, this one is also not an absolute.

    There are places where the soil handles the rain/wet just fine. The Pacific Northwest, for example, as mentioned. Riding there in the winter doesn't ruin the trails at all.

    I'm also not in the "bike as jewelry" crowd. Bikes are meant to be ridden, to get dirty and to be enjoyed.

    Worse, stating you're worried about getting your $$$$ bike muddy smacks of an attempt at bragging about how much you spent on a bike. I'm not much on calling someone a poser, but bragging about how you're worried about getting a bike dirty because you spent lots on it would probably be on my list.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    Worse, stating you're worried about getting your $$$$ bike muddy smacks of an attempt at bragging about how much you spent on a bike. I'm not much on calling someone a poser, but bragging about how you're worried about getting a bike dirty because you spent lots on it would probably be on my list.
    Yes I'm bragging. That makes sense- bragging on an anonymous forum.

    Who's the one listing their 4 bikes in their signature? Talk about looking like a bragger

    IF I were bragging I would have mentioned the actual amount spent. Just so happens its 4 figures but a FRACTION of what some spend on their bikes. It was alot to me. Its more an issue of trying to keep something I value in good condition for as long as possible- using a $300 beater bike may be a good way of doing this. Thought I'd just ask if anyone else uses a beater bike for certain conditions.. Didn't know it was gonna get so many panties tied in knots.

    And a poser I am not, 43 yrs old and have been ridings for 40 of those. Happy with XC, a 1.5 hour climb or going DHing at the local ski area. Hell, I'm even taking my kids to Rays MTB this weekend.

  32. #32
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    Yes they are made to ride in bad conditions

    Any bike we own can handle mud. But that is not the point for the race bikes. For the best possible performance they have to be deeply clean and lubed, Tuned to their limits they are incredibly responsive under very high stress demand past what most riders will ever experience. A bike like that once fouled with good-time mud ride takes hours to get back to shape, new cables and housings, deep cleaning of components, maybe new pads, and lots of test riding to make sure it is race ready.

    When you have a whole team of riders that can be really expensive in time and money so we are selective about where we ride and train.

    Having said that my Bontrager Racelite is too cool for mud. It is jewelry as I just refurbished her. End of story. I'll just use my Stumpy Pro. Besides when you ride 4 days a week who has time for all of that cleaning.

  33. #33
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    Build it, especially if you ride in mud a lot. Dirty conditions kill the bike parts faster than ever else. And it doesn't matter which group components on your bike when you ride.

  34. #34
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    I have a SS that I'll ride if it gets really muddy out. Sometimes... mostly I'll just not ride, or ride the road. Trails in MD are not as rocky as those in PA, so they aren't as resistant to eroision; we try to stay off them when it's muddy. But yes... I guess I kinda do. I also have a cross bike that I could pull out if I really want to have some fun!
    Brought to you by rocks.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh

    There are places where the soil handles the rain/wet just fine. The Pacific Northwest, for example, as mentioned. Riding there in the winter doesn't ruin the trails at all.
    Fair enough but it seems many riders give the issue zero thought when in reality, they may reside in an area where trashing muddy trails very much is or leads to access issues. This is demonstrated by riders responding with an equally broad generalized statement that riding muddy trails does not, presumably ever, harm them.

  36. #36
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    Man, the riding in the mud ruins trails thing gets really old, particularly when applied with such a broad brush.

    We've been riding for YEARS on trails, mud, sun, no matter. They are as nice as the day we met them.

    Are there trails in some areas that can't handle it? Yes, be smart, about it of course. But to say that all trails must be bone dry to be acceptable for riding is just small minded.

    For what it's worth, the park trails in our area that see the most erosion and damage? The ones the horses are allowed on, hands down, no questions asked. All park trails off limits to them are in far better shape.

    As for biking in the mud, and worrying about the bike? Sealed cable systems keep my bikes shifting spot on, well worth the dough. Ditto for brakes, or, use hydraulics. Rinsing bikes off when muddy, only makes the silt finer and in an easier flowing medium, washing it deeper into the inner workings of things. A muddy ride? Leave it be, your bike won't mind, honest. Once it's dried, and I feel like dealing with it, I'll use a soft bristled brush, and knock off the big chunks, then lube, and ride. My bikes work great, and almost never miss a shift, usually my fault if they do too....

    Super wet, rainy insanity ride? Mud all sloppy and soupy and into everything anyway? I'll rinse it off gently, since it's all super easy to rinse off anyway, being that wet.

    Ride it like you stole it, not like it's your retirement fund, or, buy a road bike to keep clean.
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  37. #37
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    I avoid muddy trails because I don't like to trash our trail.

    Yep me too.now if the horses would do the same!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by davthedude
    I avoid muddy trails because I don't like to trash our trail.
    Cool. Now if only your trail had been built as a sustainable trail with proper drainage, outslope, material, etc....
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  39. #39
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    Oh Hell no.

    If I had a 'muddy day' bike it would be the only one that ever got ridden, they're all muddy stinkin' day bikes. I wish I lived somewhere sunny enough to have a separate bike for muddy days.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    Cool. Now if only your trail had been built as a sustainable trail with proper drainage, outslope, material, etc....
    Oh snap

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    This is demonstrated by riders responding with an equally broad generalized statement that riding muddy trails does not, presumably ever, harm them.
    Who has responded that riding muddy trails does not ever harm trails?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike
    Who's the one listing their 4 bikes in their signature? Talk about looking like a bragger.
    Oooops.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchy The Clown


    Who has responded that riding muddy trails does not ever harm trails?
    Interesting question.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned.

    Response

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchy The Clown
    No.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    Interesting question.

    Response

    Which part of my response indicates that riding muddy trails never harms trails? You presume/assume too much.

    I'm not surprised that you're struggling with this, given the simplistic generalization and the inaccurate assumptions that you've brought to this discussion.


    The fact of the matter is that depending upon where you're located, riding "like that" does not trash trails nor does it help get us banned.

    No trail trashed, no chance of mountain bikers getting banned. Hey, it was even taken in Colorado!


  45. #45
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    On the way back from a ride I nearly always stop off at the local self-wash car wash and give the bike a spray down, unless it is really dry out and the bike just has a thin film of dust. Sometimes I hesitate riding when its messy out bc I don't want to dirty up my bike but common sense always prevails and I end up going out. I assume we all have different schedules and when an opening to ride presents itself, I'm out the door, so long as I'm not damaging the trails.

    mrr

  46. #46
    STEEL IS REAL
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    No, only a dry riding bike. It never rains in So Cal so I don't need a mud riding bike. Basically, I don't ride in the mud...
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchy The Clown

    Which part of my response indicates that riding muddy trails never harms trails? You presume/assume too much.

    I'm not surprised that you're struggling with this, given the simplistic generalization and the inaccurate assumptions that you've brought to this discussion.


    The fact of the matter is that depending upon where you're located, riding "like that" does not trash trails nor does it help get us banned.

    No trail trashed, no chance of mountain bikers getting banned. Hey, it was even taken in Colorado!

    Readers of this forum only have what we each write to go off in a venue such as an Internet forum. A simple "no" seems quite simply an all encompassing no. If a different message was intended, it should have been more explicit.

    If that photo was taken in the Front Range area, then that ride most certainly could have caused much consternation among the highly political and very vocal hikers in the Front Range area. Unfortunately, such things can cause harm to the efforts on the part of riders to counter the anti-mountain bike sentiment.

    Now admittedly my original post arose from my frame of reference as each of our posts do. In the Chicago area where I am originally from, trails became unrideable because horses and bikes would come through repeatedly during muddy times. In Colorado, we actually don't get too much rain and most trails aren't capable of getting as muddy as that photo. But in the Front Range area we have the political ramifications to think about as I've mentioned before. Admittedly I assumed similar political and trail conditions were common else where. But the important thing is that riders at least consider the ramifications of trail damage. If they've read this thread with an open mind, perhaps they will give it some thought.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    A simple "no" seems quite simply an all encompassing no. If a different message was intended, it should have been more explicit.
    My simple "no" response merely mimicked your simplistic "Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned" bit.

    If you intended a different message, perhaps you should have been more explicit.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    In Colorado, we actually don't get too much rain and most trails aren't capable of getting as muddy as that photo.
    That really depends upon where you are in Colorado. The Front Range is quite a bit different than the Western Slope (where that lovely picture was taken) for example.

  49. #49
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    In the late spring up in the high country we have mud season. Something tells me you'd enjoy mountain biking around that time of year up there.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour
    In the late spring up in the high country we have mud season. Something tells me you'd enjoy mountain biking around that time of year up there.
    Why?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Man, the riding in the mud ruins trails thing gets really old, particularly when applied with such a broad brush.

    We've been riding for YEARS on trails, mud, sun, no matter. They are as nice as the day we met them.

    Are there trails in some areas that can't handle it? Yes, be smart, about it of course. But to say that all trails must be bone dry to be acceptable for riding is just small minded.

    For what it's worth, the park trails in our area that see the most erosion and damage? The ones the horses are allowed on, hands down, no questions asked. All park trails off limits to them are in far better shape.

    As for biking in the mud, and worrying about the bike? Sealed cable systems keep my bikes shifting spot on, well worth the dough. Ditto for brakes, or, use hydraulics. Rinsing bikes off when muddy, only makes the silt finer and in an easier flowing medium, washing it deeper into the inner workings of things. A muddy ride? Leave it be, your bike won't mind, honest. Once it's dried, and I feel like dealing with it, I'll use a soft bristled brush, and knock off the big chunks, then lube, and ride. My bikes work great, and almost never miss a shift, usually my fault if they do too....

    Super wet, rainy insanity ride? Mud all sloppy and soupy and into everything anyway? I'll rinse it off gently, since it's all super easy to rinse off anyway, being that wet.

    Ride it like you stole it, not like it's your retirement fund, or, buy a road bike to keep clean.
    Troof!
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  52. #52
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    Yep!

    CX bikes are my winter bike of choice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-100_1357.jpg  

    Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-100_1344.jpg  


  53. #53
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    I figure that if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a bike that I'm going to get my monies worth out of it. The more money I spend on a bicycle the harder it gets ridden.

  54. #54
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    I have a crappy weather bike these days so I don't put too much wear on my irreplaceable 8 speed parts. I have a healthy stockpile but there's no sense grinding away the gears in the mud if I can help it.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchy The Clown
    [FONT="Georgia"]


    No trail trashed, no chance of mountain bikers getting banned. Hey, it was even taken in Colorado!
    This looks more fire roadish than single track or trail to me. How is riding a fire road in 6" of mud gonig to cause political / trail access problems? Bikes are vehicles and cannot be banned form the roads. Why would hikers care if a bike rutted out a fire road? Trucks do enough damage on their own when they go mudding.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBJong
    This looks more fire roadish than single track or trail to me. How is riding a fire road in 6" of mud gonig to cause political / trail access problems?
    Yes.

    I'm still puzzled by how that preachy guy from Colorado got from that picture to "Riding when its like that trashes trails and helps get us banned"

    That's a BLM road that is seasonally graded and used by trucks, ATVs, motos, etc. year round.

    No trashing and no banning there.

  57. #57
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    I called it..
    How many riders who complain about mud riding had a starbucks today?

  58. #58
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    I use the same bike for all riding conditions. Having 65mm wide wheels shod with 3" wide DH tires does help out quite a bit.
    goodbye cruel world. I am leaving you today.

  59. #59
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    Wow, with all this b¡tching and whining going on, this thread sounds like one of the typical ones over at http://forums.roadbikereview.com!!!
    goodbye cruel world. I am leaving you today.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    I called it..
    How many riders who complain about mud riding had a starbucks today?
    MEEE!! I did! In fact, Starbuck's mud is the only mud I will allow my body or belongings to get even remotely close to, LOL!
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  61. #61
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    No

    No, no and no.

  62. #62
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    Mud bike. Fenders, DH wet weather tires, drive train guard.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-mudbike-003-1.jpg  

    Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-mudbike-005.jpg  

    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  63. #63
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    ^ ^ ^ Sweet Schwinn!

    to the OP, I like a cheap SS for the mud, and one made out of the ol' parts boxes is way more satisfying than buying a new one. The amusing thing is it might turn out to be so fun it turns into your favorite bike, and after a while the expensive fs bike starts to stay in the garage even on dry days.
    "I think it's cool how the best line is also usually the most beautiful line" --Kurt F, Tamarancho, Safety Meeting

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by archtop44
    ^ ^ ^ Sweet Schwinn!

    to the OP, I like a cheap SS for the mud, and one made out of the ol' parts boxes is way more satisfying than buying a new one. The amusing thing is it might turn out to be so fun it turns into your favorite bike, and after a while the expensive fs bike starts to stay in the garage even on dry days.
    Thanks. The pics are from after a 90 minute ride in very sloppy conditions with no cleaning along the way.

    I usually ride in a part of the country where if you don't ride in the mud you don't ride much at all at least 3 months out of an average weather year, so I've been perfecting a mud bike for many years. I've tried about everything and finally arrived at this one after a lot of trial and error. Here are a few things I learned along the way.

    Skinny tires, like 35x700c work well at slicing through the stuff especially if it's boggy but when you come to the rocks and roots or hills you get knocked off line or spin out or pinch flat. Tires need to be fairly skinny or everything will pack up plus you have a lot of extra drag with fat ties if it's deep. With the advent of mud specific DH tires with soft durometer rubber and big wide spaced knobs that was the first development that made it easier.

    The second thing I noticed trying to ride rigid or front suspension only bikes it that when your tires and the rocks, logs or roots that are slick when you don't have suspension it's really easy for a tire or get directed sideways instead of the way you want to go and the same goes for keeping rear wheel traction. You can ride w/o suspension but you have to be really careful with each move, which is good for building bike handling skills but not so much fun after a while and the chances are a lot greater for going down or at least being stopped.

    Disc brakes over rim brakes is a no brainer.

    Lower gearing because there is a lot of drag in the mud. I'm running a 30t front ring.

    And finally something to keep the drive train from getting all clogged up.

    The Schwinn is what I ended up with and with it I can keep riding long after another bike would be stopped and clogged. It still sucks in the mud but at least it's now doable. Clean up is still a chore.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  65. #65
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    Here is a link I found a couple of months ago to a guy out of England who has been perfecting a bike to work in the moors for years.

    http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/welcome/

    It has a lot of different things going on, the upright riding position seems the oddest to me but he swears by it and he's been around for a long time building offroad bikes before mountain bikes got off the ground in the US. I'd like to try one.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  66. #66
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    There has been times where I had to ride in the mud because of being in a xc race and then not checking the weather and being stuck like 15 miles in the woods while lighting and pouring down rain was going on. That was an interesting ride back!

  67. #67
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    If you think about

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Here is a link I found a couple of months ago to a guy out of England who has been perfecting a bike to work in the moors for years.

    http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/welcome/

    It has a lot of different things going on, the upright riding position seems the oddest to me but he swears by it and he's been around for a long time building offroad bikes before mountain bikes got off the ground in the US. I'd like to try one.
    The goals for riding in such conditions this bike makes a lot of sense. Weight placement, no der, clearance, smooth torque, guards, internal brakes, full cable housings. It addresses so many issues our bikes do not.

    It just looks geeky. Yet it is not meant to be a racer, which heavily influences our designs and has for years.

    Maybe he needs to make it look like a dragon!

  68. #68
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    I do not shy away from water, dirt or mud on a trail (within reason; assuming trails aren't overly saturated) because I'm worried about getting my rides dirty. One has ~$900 in it and the other has a lot more- riding conditions make no difference to me as to which I choose to ride.

    If they get excessively dirty, I might hose 'em off a bit and lube chain etc. but that's about it. They are designed to take it (other than some hub manufacturers where water/dirt intrusion might be a factor; so don't ride hub deep if that's a prob for your setup).

    I brew my own coffee- never been a fan of $tarbuck$ (Dean's Beans ROCKS).

  69. #69
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    I dont ride mud very often, but it has nothing to do with keeping the trails a certain way or the bike. I just dont enjoy it that much. But if I am riding and it starts rainging, I will continue my ride, which then involves mud. I also have no problems crossing streams. There is a stream at one of the trails I ride that I cross every time. I figure the more I spend on the bike, the better the components should be and the more they can take. Whats the point of spending money for sealed bearings if your never going to use them?

  70. #70
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    This seems to work pretty well in the mud for me... not exactly a beater but my bikes have to take whatever I throw at em.


  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike
    I have quite bit $$$$ invested in my bike. While I have done so, I do not like riding it on muddy days. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy riding on muddy days. I just find that after doing so; I spend a large amount of time cleaning it real well because if I don't it doesn't seem to shift/brake/ etc as well. Also, with how much $$$$ I spent and how nice looking it is I just don't like to leave it that way.

    I am actually thinking of building up a "beater" bike especially for muddy days. Has anyone else done this? A bike you really don't "care" about.

    I have a bunch of parts laying around. All I'd really need to buy is a used frame & fork

    .Then again maybe I'm just an anal clean freak?
    Planning on getting a single speed for muddy forest service road rides sometime before winter '11-'12. Would be so much easier to clean, and less moving parts to get ruined by the muck.
    Feel free to check out my personal website, Greg Heil.com

  72. #72
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    During the Winter we have lots of mud in England. We often ride on horse trails so have to cope with deep mud churned up by the hooves. We also have heavy clay soils that builds up on wheels and components and stops them from working. The best riding is in or after the rain as this keeps the mud sloppy and liquid. Many British designed bikes have big frame clearances to cope with these conditions. But riders like me who like to ride long distances have developed our own bikes that are heavily influenced by the designs of Geoff Apps and David Wrath-Sharman.

    Here's a picture of my current Winter-bike that was built with the help of Geoff Apps of Cleland Cycles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-dsc_0614a_111.jpg  


  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWallace
    Here's a picture of my current Winter-bike that was built with the help of Geoff Apps of Cleland Cycles.
    That's cool. I was just emailing Geoff a month ago about the advantages of suspension in muddy conditions if there are logs, roots or rocks involved. He mentioned that he was thinking about it and I guess your bike is the outcome.

    Are you really tall or is it just a really short frame in height and top tube length. Could you go into the ideas behind the extreme extended stem and seatpost and tiny frame?

    I know that Geoff says he tries to mimic the riding stance of standing up on a trials motorcycle however on any bicycle you should set the saddle height so your leg is almost fully extended at the bottom of the stroke, so the seat can't really go up any higher and your bars aren't really that high compared to the saddle so I guess the upright position comes from the short reach. What is going on here? How about some geometry? Wheelbase? BB height?

    Also how does that set up work if the trail gets really steep and rocky? And a few words on your opinions on the egg rings. Please.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  74. #74
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    different bike for muddy days...WTF??

    Someone obviously has way too much money. I am impressed by the pic of 6 bikes in the rafters, but seriously, maybe you have your priorities mixed up. I only have 2 bikes of my own and that's one more than I need. I love riding on muddy days because if I had a problem with it, I wouldn't be a rider. Here in Seattle, there are more rainy, wet days than sunny ones so I guess.....no, I don't have a problem riding on wet, muddy trails or cleaning up my bike for another ride. Yeah I've left it dirty on occasion but over time that leads to buying more parts and having to take days off that should've been bike days. Now I get sh*t from my wife and neighbors for spending more time cleaning up my bike than I do cleaning my car. Thats the problem with driving a white car. I've been a student for the last 4-5 years, so having enough money to buy more bikes just isn't possible. Currently I'm riding my first FS bike, having been a hardtail rider for years. Yep, it may have more pivot points and can get mud/grit up in there but taking some time to keep it clean and working properly sure isn't that much to ask for, for all the fun it provides. We have a few clay trails here that get really slick but one of the pics above showing the glop stuck on the tires is truly remarkable. I've only encountered that once and actually had to stop and use a stick to clean off the mud off my tires because they were so loaded up they wouldn't spin, but that was a rarity. Good on ya all for sharing!!

  75. #75
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    I wish I'd known this post was going to be here, I rode 14.5 mi. yesterday in hail, rain and sunshine. Me and the bike were literally splastered with mud, even after being on the rack in the rain on the way home, the bike was still a mess. It'd be good to have take a few pics of that mess to show ya'll what a true Puget Sound trail bike looks like on any given day. Just saying....

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg
    CX bikes are my winter bike of choice.
    Nice bike.

    Oh, and I am blessed to have more than one bike to ride, so consider all the variables including trail conditions before making the choice of what bike to ride.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Grey Hair
    Someone obviously has way too much money. I am impressed by the pic of 6 bikes in the rafters, but seriously, maybe you have your priorities mixed up.

    Yeah I've left it dirty on occasion but over time that leads to buying more parts and having to take days off that should've been bike days.
    Well maybe if you maintained your bikes and didn't take off so much work you could have more too.

    For much of my life I only had one bike but after selling a couple along the way and getting so little for them I decided to just keep the next ones hanging around instead. Eventually I usually figure out something to do freshen them up. I wasn't going to ride the aforementioned Schwinn as a regular bike any longer but once I dedicated it to mud bike I occasionally get on it. I've got a set of 700c 35 tires on it right now. Not real practical but fun. I also had an old Specialized FSR that was not going be ridden either and this summer I turned it into a SS with a small investment and now it's one of my favorite bikes to ride. I only buy a new bike about once every 5 years or so, which isn't excessive in my opinion for something so key to my physical and psychological well being, but yeah I have a lot hanging from the rafters too.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  78. #78
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    Hi Modifier, I will do my best to answer your very good questions.


    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    That's cool. I was just emailing Geoff a month ago about the advantages of suspension in muddy conditions if there are logs, roots or rocks involved. He mentioned that he was thinking about it and I guess your bike is the outcome.
    As Geoff and I live 200 miles apart we tend to work and develop ideas independently and meet up once in a while to exchange ideas. Geoff has been working on a large wheeled rigid framed theme whilst I have worked on building 26" full suspension Clelands since 2006. This bike was put together about 18 months ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Are you really tall or is it just a really short frame in height and top tube length. Could you go into the ideas behind the extreme extended stem and seatpost and tiny frame?
    I am 6ft 2". The main difference geometrically between Cleland and other frames is the short length and the easy way to achieve this is to use a smaller size of stock frame. We also like to push the boundaries in terms of riding technical terrain so the low step-over height is important when you need to dismount quickly and safely.

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    I know that Geoff says he tries to mimic the riding stance of standing up on a trials motorcycle however on any bicycle you should set the saddle height so your leg is almost fully extended at the bottom of the stroke, so the seat can't really go up any higher and your bars aren't really that high compared to the saddle so I guess the upright position comes from the short reach. What is going on here? How about some geometry? Wheelbase? BB height?
    Yes the upright riding position does come from the shorter reach. I copied the geometry from my 1988 Highpath made Cleland and will attach a drawing of that bike. Notice that the Highpath has a higher top tube, not so good for getting off in a hurry.

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Also how does that set up work if the trail gets really steep and rocky? And a few words on your opinions on the egg rings. Please.
    In the saddle, you do need to lean forward to keep the front end down though this bike has a quick release adjustable stem that will rotate up to 90 degrees forwards and downwards, for use on long climbs and headwinds etc. Clelands have a reputation as remarkable out of the saddle climbers and this bike is no exception with its ability to cope with 42% slopes for short distances. The front air suspension is run very soft because most of the weight is over the rear wheel. The springs are run pre-loaded (zero sag), so that no pedaling energy is lost and the bike can be hopped and jumped like an un-sprung bike. The tires are run at very low pressures, as low as 7PSI front and 15PSI rear. These pressures absorb high frequency shocks whilst the Renault NRS suspension takes care of the bigger bumps. On steep rocky trails you need to up the tire pressures by about 10PSI but the combination of low pressure tires and suspension make this bike an excellent technical climber.

    These very elliptical rings will not make the bike go faster, in fact they make the bike slower but more efficient. Hills that with round rings would leave you breathless can be climbed relatively easily, leaving you with energy to spare. This is because they allow the pedaling cadence to be slowed right down, without the bike stalling as you struggle to get the pedals positioned for the next stroke. However because they can't cope with high cadence riding I tend to use them in combination with large round rings. The small ring on this bike has 23 teeth and 45% ovality.


    I hope goes some way to explaining my bike design.

    Graham
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-highpath_cleland_aventura_1988_140.jpg  

    Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-highpath_322_131.jpg  

    Last edited by GrahamWallace; 02-09-2011 at 04:34 PM.

  79. #79
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    Thanks for the info Graham.

    Adjustable stem. That's cleaver. Could be the next thing to an adjustable seat pin.

    It might be pretty cool to have a stem that could be set up and back for downhills and forward and down for climbs and centered for all else with a quick release by the grip so you didn't have to stop. It would be nice if it was a parallelogram so that the brake levers stayed in the right place.

    I thought about trying an egg ring on a single speed bike since you are having to grind up hills a lot of the time but not being able to spin might make it less desirable. I guess you could set up a single rear and 2 rings in the front which are almost the same size but one round and one egg. If you run a 34 tooth round ring what would you be able to push if it were egg? Or would it just be best to stick with a 34tooth for both so that you have an effective lower gear for climbing since that would be where the egg would come into play anyhow? I gather you find the 45% oval to be the best compromise?

    I'm sure you bikes works well for the type of riding you encounter.

    Cheers
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Adjustable stem. That's cleaver. Could be the next thing to an adjustable seat pin.

    It might be pretty cool to have a stem that could be set up and back for downhills and forward and down for climbs and centered for all else with a quick release by the grip so you didn't have to stop. It would be nice if it was a parallelogram so that the brake levers stayed in the right place.
    My bike's adjustable stem does allow the handlebars to rotate so that the brake levers remain in the right place, but you do need to stop riding in order to adjust it. Adjustable stems that can be moved while you ride present a big safety issue as they need to be able to be able to cope if the rider bumps into a tree whilst making adjustments. After 20+ years of playing around with adjustable stems we do have a design that is totally safe to move as you ride, but patenting it would take years and cost a lot of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    I thought about trying an egg ring on a single speed bike since you are having to grind up hills a lot of the time but not being able to spin might make it less desirable. I guess you could set up a single rear and 2 rings in the front which are almost the same size but one round and one egg. If you run a 34 tooth round ring what would you be able to push if it were egg? Or would it just be best to stick with a 34tooth for both so that you have an effective lower gear for climbing since that would be where the egg would come into play anyhow? I gather you find the 45% oval to be the best compromise?
    Very elliptical rings work best in high drag situations like deep mud, steep hills and strong headwinds etc. As these riding conditions tend to make you ride slower, the sensible solution is to use a small elliptical inner ring for these situations, and a larger outer round ring for normal use.

    On the subject of mud. Low tire pressures help improve grip and reduce the amount that the tires will dig into the mud and so the effort involved in riding. Even knobbly tires that aren't intended for mud will ride and grip far better if they are run soft.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-3516204966_97d66d3712_z.jpg  


  81. #81
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    The only thing missing from that gem is the basket hanging off the handlebars and the squeeze horn.

  82. #82

  83. #83
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    Yes, I do have a different bike for muddy days. My road bike.

    Yes, I do build sustainable trails.

    No, I don't do Starbucks.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr

    No, I don't do Starbucks.


    FK Starbucks. Not only do they try and put the local individually owned coffee shops out of business by opening across the street but their coffee isn't even very good.

    Starbucks is Walmart spelled differently but without a mountain bike park in Arkansas.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  85. #85
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    I had a Tomac Eli I broke in half. What a shame, great bike but they built it like s***. I bought an Access XCL frame for $50 and put the Tomac stuff on it. Now I use it in the snow or slop. It just saves cleaning time w/the FS. I will still trash my FS(that's what they are for) just a little slower.

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    +1

    This is a 96 Cannondale I bought new. Now I rotate all the worn parts from my other rides, so I don't care if it gets thrashed and then sits for a month.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone else here have a separate bike just for muddy days?-cannondale_ss.jpg  

    11 Flint
    08 Monocog Flight
    06 X-Caliber
    96 F400 (SS townie)

    08 Schwinn Sierra TDM (gravel tandem)

  87. #87
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    It would also be cool....

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    Cool. Now if only your trail had been built as a sustainable trail with proper drainage, outslope, material, etc....

    Cool. Now if we could import a bunch of igneous soil that drains well and line our trail systems with that type of soil....
    JPark - 3.5- don't listen to dremer

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    Cool. Now if we could import a bunch of igneous soil that drains well and line our trail systems with that type of soil....
    KEN!! Where you been?! I've missed you.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  89. #89
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    Busy....

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    KEN!! Where you been?! I've missed you.

    Working too much, riding too little and trying to put a couple kids through college.
    JPark - 3.5- don't listen to dremer

  90. #90
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    I have a Lynsky Pro 29 SS for muddy days. Bontrager Mud X up front, Schwalbe Little Albert out back, ancient RS rebas, old CK headset, Crud Catcher....... It can be muddy for around half the year sometimes where I ride.... I NEVER use my full sus in the mud, we got so much standing water and clay its crazy. External bottom brackets last 2 rides sometimes.... aghhhh, avoid Epping Forest mud.....

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike
    I have quite bit $$$$ invested in my bike.
    You've "invested" money in a bicycle?
    whatever...

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWallace
    During the Winter we have lots of mud in England. We often ride on horse trails so have to cope with deep mud churned up by the hooves. We also have heavy clay soils that builds up on wheels and components and stops them from working. The best riding is in or after the rain as this keeps the mud sloppy and liquid. Many British designed bikes have big frame clearances to cope with these conditions. But riders like me who like to ride long distances have developed our own bikes that are heavily influenced by the designs of Geoff Apps and David Wrath-Sharman.

    Here's a picture of my current Winter-bike that was built with the help of Geoff Apps of Cleland Cycles.
    Suspiciously clean for a mud bike...

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite
    You've "invested" money in a bicycle?
    Sure. Investing has multiple denotations, one of which is "to spend or devote for future advantage or benefit."

    Engineers ≠ wordsmiths.

  94. #94
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike
    I have quite bit $$$$ invested in my bike. While I have done so, I do not like riding it on muddy days. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy riding on muddy days. I just find that after doing so; I spend a large amount of time cleaning it real well because if I don't it doesn't seem to shift/brake/ etc as well. Also, with how much $$$$ I spent and how nice looking it is I just don't like to leave it that way.

    I am actually thinking of building up a "beater" bike especially for muddy days. Has anyone else done this? A bike you really don't "care" about.

    I have a bunch of parts laying around. All I'd really need to buy is a used frame & fork

    .Then again maybe I'm just an anal clean freak?
    More like I have a bike for the dry days that really sees mud. The majority of my bikes get ridden in whatever the conditions are.
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  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mountain Cycle Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Have a bike for almost any condition or trail.
    My beater bike would be the Kona Coilair.
    Hell I wouldnt mind leaving it on the mountain if it broke..
    Do I see a San Andreas in there?

  96. #96
    mtbr member
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    I can't imagine having a mountain bike and being afraid to ride it when it's muddy. Just wash it off if you don't like the mud on it.

    Do you also drive a bro truck to the trails? 8" lift with 24" rims that only sees pavement. Seems silly to me.

  97. #97
    MK_
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    Here in Colorado a bike for the muddy days is typically a road bike. As pointed above, trail access is an issue for us and the soil type we have makes for very fragile, erosion prone trails which benefit from non-use when they're at their most vulnerable.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

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