My American Pit Bull Terrier Defended Me From a Bull Moose- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    My American Pit Bull Terrier Defended Me From a Bull Moose

    I was mt. biking today in the Front Range of CO when I came across a HUGE bull moose. I was going about 10 mph down a rolling, rocky trail when the moose crashed out of the woods and onto the trail about 20-30 ft in front of me, WAY too close for comfort. I skidded to a stop and watched as the moose turned to face me. It was huge, his head must have stood 8 ft tall, and he had enormous antlers. I was deciding what to do, resisting the urge to run, but looking for an escape route... I didn't think I had much of a chance if he charged, but was poised to run at a 90 degree angle to the trail and into the densest trees I could find when my dog Dorje jumped out of the woods between the moose and me, ran at the moose, jumped up at him but didn't manage to get a good hold on the moose. The moose swung at him with his antlers, but Dorje jumped back out of the way. The moose was surprisingly fast and graceful with his attack for such a huge animal. Dorje responded by barking and growling at the moose, and stood his ground. It was a standoff... So, I decided a retreat was in order, and got on my bike pointed away from the moose, which was a downhill slope at that point in the trail (great luck). I called Dorje with a "Lets Go!", the signal I am getting on my bike and leaving the area. Thankfully, he backed away from the moose and followed me down the trail. He had a huge grin on his face, this was great fun for him.

    Some pics from today and one from this spring:










  2. #2
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    Good job Vick.

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    Nice one Dave and Dorje. Bet you're glad you went west of the Peak to Peak today!
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  4. #4
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    You ride around with an UNLEASHED PIT BULL? People like you are why my mom is terrified to walk her dog anywhere outside of town.

    Even if it's the best dog in the world (which it may well be, given this encounter!), this is only acceptable if you never, ever see a stranger on the trail or you own the land. No matter how good his behavior is, the other dog can always be the one to start a fight, and if it's on a leash you are the one in the wrong. Not to mention that a loose pit bull is incredibly intimidating - if I saw it way up the trail I would consider it necessary to turn around or detour way above it. No one else knows if your dog is wonderful or psychotic.

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    Good thing the moose didn't get to the dog. Even if the dog did get a good bite of the huge beast, It would probably be like a crawfish having a good clamp onto your index finger, at which point you just flick it off where it lands 15 feet from you.

  6. #6
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    nevermind
    Last edited by slocaus; 07-23-2007 at 12:21 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Davec113,
    You forgot the one of Dorje with his ears flyin' in the wind and the unbridled joy on his face running the singletrack. That pic does my heart good!

    Give him an extra pat and a biscuit for the bravery and loyalty he showed you today!
    Last edited by slocaus; 07-23-2007 at 12:21 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    You ride around with an UNLEASHED SPAWN OF SATAN? People like you are why my mom is terrified to walk her dog anywhere outside of town.
    Thats Hilarious!... or disappointing, I'm not sure which. Pits used to be viewed a lot differently than they are today, as a family dog, guardian of kids, ww2 armed forced mascot, etc... the Little Rascals dog was a Pit. Even modern studies show that your mom's golden retriever (guess) is more likely to bite a child than an American Pit Bull Terrier. Apparently your views are dictated to you by our media (thats the disappointing part).

    It is true they are likely to be DOG aggressive, but thats completely seperate from aggression to humans. My dog does not happen to be dog aggressive on the trail, and will avoid fights if possible. I wanted this trait so I looked for it when I bought my dog. If he is attacked by another dog that is off a leash, then my leashing him isn't helping anyway. He has met hundreds of dogs in parks and on trails without fighting with any of them. I trust that he will not provoke a fight or retaliate unless he is viciously attacked.

    I only let him off leash where it is allowed.

  9. #9
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    That's awesome that your dog stood up to that animal to cover for you like that
    :wq

  10. #10
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    It's not because it's a pit bull, it's just that I hate loose dogs. My mom's dog was once attacked by someone else's dog (ironically, it wasn't loose, it broke its leash) while I was walking here, and I've come very close to being attacked multiple times myself. I've been turned back on some bike rides because some redneck moron had his 3 dogs guarding the road, or something along those lines. And those were, in fact, golden retrievers or similar breeds, as was the dog that's come closest to attacking me - the only dogs I don't mind seeing loose are tiny, harmless ones.

    It's extra bad because it's a Pit Bull, though, because they are more powerful if they do cause problems, and they're extra intimidating - a lot of idiots breed them for dog fighting so much of the time they're extremely aggressive. The fact remains that I don't know if your dog is a fighting dog out for exercise or the nicest dog ever bred - if I see it, I'll have to turn back, or circle around to avoid it, or wait for you to control it. By myself I might risk it, but I'm not going to take my dog by it, and my mom is even more cautious - a badly-trained pit bull could kill her. The fact of the matter is, ever since my dog was attacked she's extremely spooky around other dogs, and your dog coming up to her might cause her to attack it. However, she's on a leash, so any encounter is entirely your fault.

    Just keep the damn thing on a leash and carry a high-powered rifle if you're worried about moose. I know the gun won't go off randomly, but I have no such assurances about your animal.

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    nevermind
    Last edited by slocaus; 07-23-2007 at 12:21 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Here is some friendly advice. If you do not like something here on MTBR, use your browsers back button and leave. You will not change everyone on the Internet, no matter how strongly you believe you are right. Give it up.
    Wouldn't you be contradicting your own policy by posting it?

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    Last edited by slocaus; 07-23-2007 at 12:22 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Nope, I'm in total support of Davec113 having the right to ride with his dog. He stated that Dorje is only off leash where it is allowed.
    Well, assuming it's true, it changes things a little. I wouldn't take my dog into a place where loose dogs were allowed.

    I've just had a lot of bad experiences with loose dogs in a lot of places where they are expressly forbidden, and have a negative impression of the whole concept. You'd feel the same way if you tried walking with your mom and her dog several times in a beautiful outdoor area, only to be accosted by loose dogs multiple times per walk and nearly attacked about once per trip (which were only averted by getting between the dogs and shouting to scare the aggressor away.) All this in a place where dogs explicitly have to be leashed, marked at the trailhead.

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    Have you called local animal control or anything, mitrovarr? If this is really the epidemic you are presenting, they should be more than willing to help.

    Regardless, way to ruin the guys thread with your ranting
    :wq

  16. #16
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    Nice story! Enjoyed the pics too.

    When riding my bike and I'm approached by a big loose dog I dismount and keep the bike between me and the dog. The smaller ones I outrun or turn around and they back down.
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  17. #17

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    that's one good dog. i wouldn't be afraid of any dog that appears to listen to it's owner that well...

  18. #18
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    going back to the scheduled programming...

    Great story, sweet dog and awesome shots too!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    It's not because it's a pit bull, it's just that I hate loose dogs. My mom's dog was once attacked by someone else's dog (ironically, it wasn't loose, it broke its leash) while I was walking here, and I've come very close to being attacked multiple times myself. I've been turned back on some bike rides because some redneck moron had his 3 dogs guarding the road, or something along those lines. And those were, in fact, golden retrievers or similar breeds, as was the dog that's come closest to attacking me - the only dogs I don't mind seeing loose are tiny, harmless ones.

    It's extra bad because it's a Pit Bull, though, because they are more powerful if they do cause problems, and they're extra intimidating - a lot of idiots breed them for dog fighting so much of the time they're extremely aggressive. The fact remains that I don't know if your dog is a fighting dog out for exercise or the nicest dog ever bred - if I see it, I'll have to turn back, or circle around to avoid it, or wait for you to control it. By myself I might risk it, but I'm not going to take my dog by it, and my mom is even more cautious - a badly-trained pit bull could kill her. The fact of the matter is, ever since my dog was attacked she's extremely spooky around other dogs, and your dog coming up to her might cause her to attack it. However, she's on a leash, so any encounter is entirely your fault.

    Just keep the damn thing on a leash and carry a high-powered rifle if you're worried about moose. I know the gun won't go off randomly, but I have no such assurances about your animal.
    i know that everybody on a forum is entiltled to post his/her opinion (which is why im going to post mine). you tell him to carry a high powered rifle if worried about the moose, yeah because thats practical and safe , and then later in this post you say that on several trips you have been chased by lose dogs. so why not take your own advise and either change where you walk or carry pepper spray with you. have you never heard of an accidental discharge. work around guns long enough and accidents happen, guns that are "unloaded" will magically fire when doing dry fire drills. laugh, i have seen it happen. while you do say that only some idiots breed these dogs for fighting, the only sensible statement in all of your post on this thread, you must realize that the pit was doing the exact thing that it was breed for in the first place, protect its master/owner.

    a pit bull is the most loyal dog you could ever hope to have, they are the best around children and have the best temperment of any dog you could hope to have. that being said if an animal or human attacks their master watch out. in case you cant tell by my affection for pit bulls they are my favorite breed and i hate the stigma surrounding the breed. so anyway like the guy said the dog was allowed to be off where he was anyway dont take this as an attack on you personally (hell i dont even know you) anyway sorry about the long post /rant off

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    btw..forgot to say great story and thats a pretty dog you got there

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    Ignore the haters/nitwits. Dogs NEED to be unleashed and run to lead healthy and happy lives, especially the sporting breeds. Running/sprinting is in their genetic make-up...simply part of what makes a dog a dog. Bike w/ both of mine unleashed here in the NE (places where its allowed) Happiest times in their lives, excepting the post ride snooze in the sun, of course.

    *Great* looking dog by the way.

  22. #22
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    Mitrovarr posted

    UNLEASHED PIT BULL
    It's not because it's a pit bull,
    And those were, in fact, golden retrievers or similar breeds, as was the dog that's come closest to attacking me
    It's extra bad because it's a Pit Bull
    Mitrovarr
    Huh?!?!!!!!

    Seems like you should be looking for a thread were the OP says that they went riding recently with their UNLEASHED GOLDEN RETRIEVERS


    davec113

    Great story, I'm glad to hear everyone made it out safely (human, dog, and moose).
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  23. #23
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    Makes me wish I could've rescued a cute pit pup from the pound years ago, guess I'll have to head to the pound soon and find another to adopt. I miss my trail partners heads up awareness. I don't see half as many things without a dog pointing them out to me. Moose are not one of those though, they are freakin huge! My dogs once herded a young bull around my house!
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  24. #24
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    my pit/sharpei mix chased a moose into the woods and around right back at us once. had to dive behind trees to avoid being trampled, good times. First time I felt the ground shake since moving from cali.
    Last edited by nOOby; 07-23-2007 at 08:09 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    It's not because it's a pit bull, it's just that I hate loose dogs. My mom's dog was once attacked by someone else's dog (ironically, it wasn't loose, it broke its leash) while I was walking here, and I've come very close to being attacked multiple times myself. I've been turned back on some bike rides because some redneck moron had his 3 dogs guarding the road, or something along those lines. And those were, in fact, golden retrievers or similar breeds, as was the dog that's come closest to attacking me - the only dogs I don't mind seeing loose are tiny, harmless ones.

    It's extra bad because it's a Pit Bull, though, because they are more powerful if they do cause problems, and they're extra intimidating - a lot of idiots breed them for dog fighting so much of the time they're extremely aggressive. The fact remains that I don't know if your dog is a fighting dog out for exercise or the nicest dog ever bred - if I see it, I'll have to turn back, or circle around to avoid it, or wait for you to control it. By myself I might risk it, but I'm not going to take my dog by it, and my mom is even more cautious - a badly-trained pit bull could kill her. The fact of the matter is, ever since my dog was attacked she's extremely spooky around other dogs, and your dog coming up to her might cause her to attack it. However, she's on a leash, so any encounter is entirely your fault.

    Just keep the damn thing on a leash and carry a high-powered rifle if you're worried about moose. I know the gun won't go off randomly, but I have no such assurances about your animal.
    I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this post before I tell you to shut your suck-hole and get a life. People like "your mon" scare me on the roads and highways, but nobody's is banning her from driving. Get your panties out of a ball, go back to your sanitized idiot-proof hyper-sensitive world , and let the man and his best friend enjoy themselves.

    Excuse me, I need to go back and catch up on all the stories I've been reading about vicious mountain biking dog attacks. Skrew you.
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  26. #26
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    pit bull stigma?

    Mitrovarr is a bit over the top, agreed.

    However, I am also alarmed and disturbed by the number of dog owners who think it is no big deal to let a pit bull run around loose where it is NOT allowed. It happens in my local State Park regularly.

    First of all, if the rules allow dogs off-leash, then I have no problem with anyone or any breed of dog doing so. I still personally believe it is irresponsible in most cases, because almost all owners are absurdly naive and delusional about how well-behaved and friendly their dog is.

    When I am walking around a state park with my 3 and 5 year olds, any type of dog off-leash is a potential problem. Even a super-friendly, overly enthusiastic dog can knock a little person over easily and/or possibly plant the seed for a fear of dogs that lasts for the rest of their lives. If I went to this particular state park because it does not allow dogs off-leash, then I see the dog-owner's decision to ignore the rule as rude, inconsiderate, selfish, and potentially dangerous for hikers, bikers, and horses.

    When you own a Pit Bull or other breed generally known to be prone to aggressiveness, I think it is quite reasonable for a total stranger to presume that your dog poses a potentially greater risk. Your personal evaluation of your dog's mental stability and track record are meaningless.

    Pit bull owners are quick to talk about how their dogs get a bad rap because people don't "raise them correctly". That's BS. Dogs that are bred primarily for fighting and have a long "rap sheet" of violent maimings and outright murder cannot blame their tendencies on "bad owners" and expect people to buy it. Show me the last golden retriever that seriously injured someone or killed a child.

    Pit Bull owners buy these dogs and then spend the rest of their lives trying to convince everyone in the world that they're truly sweet and loving at heart and incapable of violence. Why bother? If you want to have a dog for self-defense or because he looks tough or whatever, that's fine. But understand that you will be responsible for keeping that animal in check and don't expect anybody to cut you much slack when you try to bend the rules.

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    Not this again.

    Please people, realize that it is not the dog it is the person who trains them. If someone trains them to fight anything they see, then that dog will be a very vicious dog. Its pathetic that people raise dogs to fight, because they can't fight each other themselves.

    This dog is a beautiful dog, protecting its owner with its life like any well trained dog would. Then only thing you city-slickers know about is dog fighting, therefor they are very vicious (not all of them are fighting dogs, anyway, but you can tell when they are because they are overly aggressive to anything even their own trainer (and the "trainer" usually abuses these animals so the animal thinks that it has to protect itself from everything).

    Therefor, the city-lamers had to make a law against it which is the only thing they can do. But seriously, they don't go to the root of the problem and crack down on dog fights, they ban the dog.

    That is as retarded as the city, the city "officials" and everything else the city spews.

    It is just another blind "solution" that is actually just making more of a problem then providing a solution.

    Therefor, do not target the dog, target the "trainers".

    This is a great dog. If trained correctly any dog can be unleashed but will stay near the owner, because the dog knows that the owner is his friend. Not only that, but he will follow commands too.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster
    I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this post before I tell you to shut your suck-hole and get a life. People like "your mon" scare me on the roads and highways, but nobody's is banning her from driving. Get your panties out of a ball, go back to your sanitized idiot-proof hyper-sensitive world , and let the man and his best friend enjoy themselves.

    Excuse me, I need to go back and catch up on all the stories I've been reading about vicious mountain biking dog attacks. Skrew you.
    Way to tell it like it is.

    It's those unleashed Cocker Spaniels that concern me - those things are vicious little monsters - and don't get me started on those Pekingese, I still have a scar on my lip from one of those things biting me when I was 10.

  29. #29
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    Great Dog you have there! Hope you gave him an extra scooby snack when you got home.

    As for as "banning the breed", that's a load of Sh1t! My buddy's daughter has a pit. friendlist dog I've ever met. He'll lick you to death before he ever bits you. You should see him tuck that tail between his leg when she catches him doing something he knows he shouldn't!

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    blame it on the city?

    I am redneck and hillbilly. My family are farmers and raise beef for a living. I understand animals pretty well. I am no "city-lamer" whatever that is supposed to mean. I love dogs, too.

    I guess you think that the generations of Pits that have been bred for their strength and aggressiveness have had no effect on the general temperament and tendencies of the breed. Yeah, right. And I guess that Jack Russels don't really like to bark, and Bloodhounds don't like to track scents, and Retrievers don't really like to fetch naturally, either. Whatever.

    It is very convenient (and lame) to blame it on the media, the politicians, and the inner-city dwellers so you don't have to feel any responsibility for the reputation of the breed of dog you choose to own. Don't get your feelings hurt and get defensive everytime someone reminds you that you have a dog that isn't known as a "model citizen".

  31. #31
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    I was on that very trail about 12:30/1:00 yesterday afternoon. I was thinking to myself, "you know renegade, there is not much traffic on this trail [I'm riding alone, with no dog!], you sure don't want to get hurt out here, no one will find your remains for weeks".
    Very cool trail too.
    ****

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    Beautiful dog davec113, and know he's game, which makes him even better! I have no problems with dogs of leash, but then I've never been attacked by one.

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    pics of my pit sharpei

    this guy IS the nicest, friendiest dog I've ever met. The spca cuddled him for the first two months of his life(born there), socializing him, etc. Nuture trumps nature in most cases(IMO)



    he did kill a chipmonk once

  34. #34
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    I have to agree that if I come across ANY unleashed dog that I don't know personally, I am very aware that I may encounter a dangerous dog. My personal experience has been that ANY dog can pose a significant threat regardless of the breed.

    I also can't argue that SOME people, NOT ALL PEOPLE, choose to foster the aggressive nature of certain fighting breeds. I CAN provide my personal experience (that's what we do on this site) that would refute the belief that ALL Pit Bulls are bad, even when raised by thugs wanting them to fight. We rescued Pit Bull that was raised as a fighter (scars on face, ears cut completely off). She may look dangerous, but she is one of the sweetest dogs I have ever owned. She hasn't met a single person she doesn't like, including children. EVEN in situations where you might expect aggression from a fighting dog.

    If we are going to talk about danger, let us talk about danger statistics:

    Number of murders in 2003 and 2004.
    2003 1,383,676
    2004 1,367,009

    Somebody please show me statistics that suggest pit bull and other breeds are more dangerous than the species causing the above listed statistics.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

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    Just curious what trail you were riding in the front range? I've never seen a moose around these parts, much less a huge bull.

  36. #36
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    Awesome story Davec113. That only speaks well for you as well. I know that dogs will lay lay down their life for their owners, but it's not everyday that you'll have one lunging at a beast as big as a moose. You must be proud. That's sheer devotion between you two. Stories like that makes me want to go adopt a good dog myself (were it not for our spoiled cat).
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by indy dog
    Just curious what trail you were riding in the front range? I've never seen a moose around these parts, much less a huge bull.
    The wapiti and baptiste trails are secondary trails that flow off of the northern sourdough trail. There is a large moose population that resides in the grandby area; these moose pop over the divide once in a while during the summer. I saw one at west magnolia several years ago; folks thought I was full of sh*t when I spoke about it. Then 3 days later the same moose walked through downtown Nederland, and I was vindicated.
    ****

  38. #38
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    The dog hater must be from the South. I've been on rides down there, and thought I was going to be eaten by the random dogs roaming the trail. This is because they're raised as hunting dogs, not pets. I'm a total dog lover, and I was shocked how some people treat, and raise, their dogs. When some of these foks are "done" with their dog, they just ditch them in the woods! Definitely not pets. It's a little different in some areas. I disagree with the Pit overreaction, by the way. Any dog can be raised to be vicious or sweet. Ever seen a pack of beagles tear up a rabbit?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg


    Pit bull owners are quick to talk about how their dogs get a bad rap because people don't "raise them correctly". That's BS. Dogs that are bred primarily for fighting and have a long "rap sheet" of violent maimings and outright murder cannot blame their tendencies on "bad owners" and expect people to buy it. Show me the last golden retriever that seriously injured someone or killed a child.
    Actually, its not the dogs that are bred for fighting, hunting, or herding that are the issue with this breed. Its the Pits that are bred for looks, and the Pits that are bred as guard dogs that are the problem. The fighting dogs are actually some of the best dogs around people and kids, and are not necessarily dog aggressive either. Fighting dogs that show any aggression towards people are culled for obvious reasons, but the people that want guard dogs encourage this trait, and people breeding for looks sometimes overlook this because their priorities are wrong. Like many breeds, recent irresponsible breeding has damaged the integrity of the breed. Just like German Shepherds have been bred disregarding health and temperament, Pits have been bred by irresponsible people too. So yes, dangerous Pits do exist that have temperaments that would never have been produced by a responsible Pit Bull breeder.

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    Pit Bull owners buy these dogs and then spend the rest of their lives trying to convince everyone in the world that they're truly sweet and loving at heart and incapable of violence. Why bother? If you want to have a dog for self-defense or because he looks tough or whatever, that's fine. But understand that you will be responsible for keeping that animal in check and don't expect anybody to cut you much slack when you try to bend the rules.
    I don't know of other Pit Bull owners that will say their dog is incapable of violence, thats rediculous. Pit owners do often try to educate people about misconceptions that have been propigated through sensationalized media events. Most of these "Pit Bull Attacks" that have been recorded by the media have NOT been perpitrated by a pure American Pit Bull Terrier, it just makes the story news worthy to report the strory this way. Pit Bull crosses are not the same dog, some can be much more dangerous when mixed with guard dog breeds, and identifying a Pit Bull isn't as easy as you might think:

    http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html

    http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Fin...itbull_v3.html

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    For those who live around moose, what are you supposed to do when one of them confronts you? I know they are unpredictable and will trample people, especially Bulls. Apparently its rare to survive a moose trampling, I'm sure glad the moose decided not to try to chase us down!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    For those who live around moose, what are you supposed to do when one of them confronts you? I know they are unpredictable and will trample people, especially Bulls. Apparently its rare to survive a moose trampling, I'm sure glad the moose decided not to try to chase us down!
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  42. #42
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    The leash law here states that your dog must be under your control. I have trained mine to heel without a leash. I don't have any concern about her being off leash. She would never bite anyone any-dog or otherwise. She got run over by a bike once and is spooked by bikes so she doesn't do the off road thing anymore sadly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    For those who live around moose, what are you supposed to do when one of them confronts you? I know they are unpredictable and will trample people, especially Bulls. Apparently its rare to survive a moose trampling, I'm sure glad the moose decided not to try to chase us down!
    I went to college in Pocatello Idaho (Idaho native) and spent much time in the Tetons skiing and mountaineering. Everything we learned was to avoid them at all costs - run away, get up a tree, big rocks, etc.

    During the winter of 1972,I watched a bull moose that was standing in the road outside Jackson Hole get annoyed at in idiot in an old VW bug. The guy kept honking at the moose. The moose turned and charged and then methodically made that veedub about 1/2 size as he pounded it from all sides. The guy was scrunched up in the middle, terrified. I was in a VW bus about 6 cars and 100 feet behind, heading north toward Jenny Lake for some xc skiing.

    After about 45 minutes of methodically charging the VW, the moose sauntered off into the woods. The fire department and sheriff had been summoned right after the first moose charge on the VW, and they sat and watched with the rest of us. When the moose finally left, they drove up and extricated the guy from his pulverized mass of metal, and waved the rest of us around. It made the cover of the Jackson Hole newspaper that week. Knowing the sherrif, I'm sure the guy got an earful, and learned his lesson about honking at a moose from 20 feet away.....
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobolator
    Makes me wish I could've rescued a cute pit pup from the pound years ago, guess I'll have to head to the pound soon and find another to adopt.
    Yep, we saved a pit off the streets about 7 years ago. She's a sweetheart and as has already been mentioned on this derailed thread, she'll lick someone to death before she bites them. With that said, here's my take at further derailing this thread (because it's monday and I don't feel like working):

    To me, owning a dog is like owning a gun. There is a lot of responsibility a gun owner needs to take, and more so with guns that have greater potential for harm. For example, any gun could be pointed at someone and fired, whether it's a bb gun or a shotgun. Both are going to hurt like hell, but the shotgun has a much, much greater potential of killing you then the bb gun, and as such, the owner of a shotgun has a much greater responsibility to protect the innocent from this potential. This rational should be applied to dogs as well. All dogs can bite and harm other dogs/people/etc., however, Pits have a much greater potential of causing damage then a shepard/retriever/spaniel/etc., because of the physical features that they have been bread with. Because the potential for damage is higher, the owners of Pits and other similar breeds need to be that much more responsible with their furry friend.

    To those of you who fear the loose dog on the trail, let me remind/inform you that dogs are extremely sensative and can easily sense this frear/anger. By you haveing a fearfull attitude, you are helping create the situation you are trying to avoid. Get over your fear, greet the dog, drop down to their level and pet them, and you'll get nothing but licks and a wagging tail.

    BTW, great story and you have a beautiful dog. Here's a couple pics of my Pit from this weekend (yes contrary to what you may think, Pits can swim very well and love to retrieve)




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    i'm all for letting your dogs run free with ya. my dog always loved running thru the woods, along the trail with me. he was never happier. but...

    did i miss the part of the story in which the moose ATTACKED, thereby validating the statement of DEFENSE?

    from what i read, the moose was defending itself from what it could have only assumed to be a predator...
    trust the tread

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    Is it me or is Mitrovarr only *****ing about the dog. What about the Moose?? Why was he in the trial?? Who was holding him back??

    Oh, yeah this orginal post was about how my dog may have saved my live. And it turned into my "poor Mommy."

    Am i correct i saying your Mothers dog is the size of a cat. I hate to tell you that ain't a dog.

    Dude your just another person turning a good story into something else.

    Why don't we say for the safety of humans lets eliminate all animals larger then a squirrelfrom being in the woods. So we all have a safe place to ride.
    What goes up must come down

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    Most of these "Pit Bull Attacks" that have been recorded by the media have NOT been perpitrated by a pure American Pit Bull Terrier, it just makes the story news worthy to report the strory this way. Pit Bull crosses are not the same dog, some can be much more dangerous when mixed with guard dog breeds, and identifying a Pit Bull isn't as easy as you might think:
    What difference does that make? Is the general public supposed to be able to discern a mixed bull from a "true American Pit Bull" at 50 yards and thereby gain some sense of safety and security?

    To me, any pit bull-like dog I see off-leash is cause for paying attention and keeping on guard (at minimum). The block head and bulging muscles are usually enough to get an idea that it's a dog you wouldn't want to mess with. Your assurance that true APBTs are not problem dogs means very little to me and the rest of the general public.

    I particularly liked this "factoid" from your second link:

    "For hundreds of years Pit Bulls were bred to fight dogs, certain traits were bred into the bloodlines for that purpose; high pain tolerance, high prey drive, etc."

    Boy, that sure doesn't sound like the kind of dog that would be great roaming free in public and spending quality time with little kids.

    High pain tolerance? Sounds like a dog that could be kind of hard to defend yourself against, kick away, etc.

    High prey drive? I guess you would argue that the "prey" is other dogs and somehow that's OK. That seems to be the argument that the website espouses.

    Just face it, you have a breed that has been bred for violence. Maybe yours isn't violent (yet), maybe it is, but most of us don't care to try and figure out which category it falls in. Just keep it away from me and my kids, and quit whining when people tell you how they feel about the breed. My opinion on your dog's capability for violent behavior is every bit as valid as yours when meeting up in public open spaces. The difference is, I don't endanger you or your family in order to "prove" my side of the argument.

    Don't you even feel the slightest guilt when your dog scares/intimidates/ makes other people nervous? Or do you feel it "serves us right" for our lack of understanding of your OPINION on this breed?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rez
    for the safety of humans lets eliminate all animals larger then a squirrelfrom being in the woods
    Still not safe enough, need to eliminate all life other than human...... (/tongue in cheek)
    http://www.chainreaction.com/squirrels.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfisher1971
    i'm all for letting your dogs run free with ya. my dog always loved running thru the woods, along the trail with me. he was never happier. but...

    did i miss the part of the story in which the moose ATTACKED, thereby validating the statement of DEFENSE?

    from what i read, the moose was defending itself from what it could have only assumed to be a predator...
    The moose crashed out of the woods and onto the trail directly in front of me, then turned to face me from 20-30 ft away. Clearly he was in a defensive posture

    Do you know anything at all about moose? They're agressive toward people and dogs, and will happily trample you to death if you annoy them. My dog might have saved my life.

    Did you even read my original post? I'll refrain from calling you retarded this time

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    Dave,
    Nice post. Give the dog a biscutt and a pat on the back for me.

    Next time instead of having the dog save you. Bring a flying squirrel, I understand that moose and squirrrels are great friends.
    What goes up must come down

  51. #51
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    Ok, I know better.

    "Arguing on the internet is like running at the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

    I is taken by retarded self outta here......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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    Good Dog

    I also came across a moose this weekend while out riding. I came around a corner and spooked it and it tore off into the woods. Its was a cow, luckily no young ones with it, that I saw anyway. I suppose it probably would have held its ground if it had calves.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    I am redneck and hillbilly. My family are farmers and raise beef for a living. I understand animals pretty well.

    It is very convenient (and lame) to blame it on the media, the politicians, and the inner-city dwellers so you don't have to feel any responsibility for the reputation of the breed of dog you choose to own. Don't get your feelings hurt and get defensive everytime someone reminds you that you have a dog that isn't known as a "model citizen".
    Being a redneck and a hillbilly, you probably didn't read this article, but it's an interesting review of dog attacks in the US over the past 4 decades and compares the concept of profiling "pit bulls" (since they're now the tough-guy dog du jour) to Islamic people as terrorists.

    5 pages is likely too long for folks with a black/white view of a particular breed of dog, but it's an interesting article by Malcolm Gladwell.
    http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200.../060206fa_fact

    Dave, you had to know this thread would bring the "I can't believe you ride with your dog unleashed" comments. I'd just let them pass....these people don't know you or your dog. FYI, I had a big bull moose run out in front of me when I was in SLC a couple of weeks ago and it scared the living sh*t out of me. Thankfully, he boogied up the hill past us, but I was freaked for a minute there as we would've had nowhere to retreat (no big trees or rocks to get behind). Nice job, Dorje!!

    BTW, I'm still waiting for the THE pic!

    Cheers,
    EB

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    Awesome story! Great dog you have there, glad to hear all came out of the experience safe and sound!
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    Just face it, you have a breed that has been bred for violence. Maybe yours isn't violent (yet), maybe it is, but most of us don't care to try and figure out which category it falls in. Just keep it away from me and my kids, and quit whining when people tell you how they feel about the breed. My opinion on your dog's capability for violent behavior is every bit as valid as yours when meeting up in public open spaces. The difference is, I don't endanger you or your family in order to "prove" my side of the argument.

    Don't you even feel the slightest guilt when your dog scares/intimidates/ makes other people nervous? Or do you feel it "serves us right" for our lack of understanding of your OPINION on this breed?
    Theres no issue here about me "facing" anything. My dog will certainly be violent given the correct set of circumstances, as will any dog. I'm not endangering anyone, in fact the cute retriever you just let your kid approach is more likely to bite than my dog is.

    Your opinion isn't actaully valid because it is not based in reality. I don't give a flying f#$k what you think, the only reason I'm responding is because you're typing a load of sh*t onto my thread. I don't need more hype and misinformation being spread. So stop it, you're making yourself look like an idiot. You don't know the facts, and you obviously don't understand what a Pit Bull's personality is like.

    I don't need to feel guilt about people being scared by my dog because it doesn't happen. He comes when I call him, and I don't let him approach dogs on a leash (ever) or other people who aren't obviously happy to see him. %99.9 of people respond in a positive manner when they see him anyway, the other %0.1 I make sure he stays away from. Just like any other dog... people, especially parents of little kids, are wary of dogs no matter which breed it is, and rightfully so. I'd never let my dog near little kids without the parents permission, like any good dog owner.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    The moose crashed out of the woods and onto the trail directly in front of me, then turned to face me from 20-30 ft away. Clearly he was in a defensive posture
    that's what moose do, they crash thru woods, meadows, wherever they happen to be. it was obviously coincidence that your paths crossed, i doubt the moose was stalking you. and you said he turned to face you, after you skidded to a stop. hmmm... when i hear something strange behind me, i'd turn around too. the moose was in a DEFENSIVE posture. exactly. as opposed to an OFFENSIVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Do you know anything at all about moose? They're agressive toward people and dogs, and will happily trample you to death if you annoy them. My dog might have saved my life.
    i had several run in with moose while living in northern idaho. not once was i charged. again, the key words are IF YOU ANNOYED THEM. i think he was just as surprised to see you as you were him. its not like you ran up on him while he was grazing & began poking him with a stick, he was just wandering along thru the woods like you. it probably wasn't until your dog attacked that it became annoyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Did you even read my original post? I'll refrain from calling you retarded this time
    yes. and re-read it. still didn't see anything about the moose attacking you. from what i read, the dog leaped out of the forest and attacked first, whilst the moose & yourself stood there sizing each other up. or am i still missing something?

    don't get me wrong, i'm not against you or your dog, i'm just saying that what happened is not exactly your pit bull defending you from a bull moose attack, as the title implies. nice spin though. kind of like the old south park episode... "they were coming right at us!!!"
    trust the tread

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    I've had about 5 moose sightings up there over the years (also seen one t-boned by a Saab up near Cameron Pass- another story), more common than people would think. 2 of those were females with calves. The first time I was night riding around dusk and came upon mother and calf happily eating sapplings. Sat and watched them for about 15 minutes before they ambled off. 2nd time was skiing up near Coney Flats and three (mother and two larger calves) came down the trail at me, I yelled and clicked my poles together and they got off trail and went around me. I was also off trail and in the thickest trees I could find. I've also heard about moose trampling people on trail, especially in deep snow where there's no where for them to go. At any rate, they are up there. Personally I've never felt overly* threatened by them, in awe yes, threatened no. I think that as the guy above stated, both you and the moose were probably equally suprised to see each other. If he wanted to charge I'm guessing your dog, pit or no, would have done little to discourage it. 2 censt worth.

    As far as pits go... well let's just say that I'm cautious around them. I've known a few in the past and regardless of what anyone tells me, owner or otherwise, I still keep an eye on them when they're around me. I'd never have one around children, that's just me though.


    I'd be happy the dog didn't get ahold of the moose, I'd put my money on the moose anyday of the week.
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  58. #58
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    Good story, great dog.
    For some to look for bad in every good is second nature, let them be ...

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    Yes, it was a coincidence, its all so clear now, thanks!!!

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    still ignoring the reality, eh?

    Gee, Dave, let me attempt to summarize your points:

    1) I don't know enough detailed information about Pit Bulls to register a valid opinion on whether they are dangerous compared to other breeds. Even though some of the propaganda you posted pretty much supports that view. And apparently you are an expert and can speak for all the various pit bulls and pit bull mutts out there with authority.
    And your qualifications for this expert opinion are:
    a) you like the dog
    b) you read the anti-propaganda propaganda to make yourself feel good
    c) you have owned and known, what, ONE representative dog of the breed?
    Boy that's a strong argument. I guess your opinion should be the only one that matters.

    2) I am making myself look like an idiot (according to you)
    Kind of subjective, eh.

    3) You have determined that your dog never scares anyone or makes them nervous. Yeah right.

    4) It is your expert opinion as to whether I am "happy to see him" that determines whether you will call the dog and keep him from approaching me. Boy that makes me feel real safe. What if it was a nervous smile?... I guess I'm the one that should be careful about YOUR dog and my facial expressions when I'm nearby. Lord knows it is incumbent upon the rest of us to make sure you and your OBVIOUSLY friendly dog have all the freedom you need.

    Just keep sticking that head in the sand and denying any responsibility, everything will be just fine...

  61. #61
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    Well Dave, after three pages of mixed responses to sharing your story, do you have any regrets at all of sharing it? For me, my riding experiences are a very personal thing, and granted, your encounter is not a common one, and you wanted to share it, but did you ever predict some of the responses in this thread? This kind of crap is what makes me keep my riding to myself.
    ****

  62. #62
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    This tread has been great. I got to read a good story that warms my heart about the wonderful relationship of humans and dogs, I was reminded of my (now funny) moose story above, and I got to add some more f****** i***** to my Ignore list.

    I hate seeing the "piss in your cheerios" posters ruin threads.
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  63. #63
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    davec113. Two things.

    1. That moose was not a threat to you.
    2. If you really love dogs, get yours fixed.

    I'm glad all animals involved are safe. I too have a pit. They are good dogs.

    bm

  64. #64
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    Yeah, it was one of the biggest animals I've ever seen, Dorje wouldn't have had a chance. Maybe I'm exagerating, but his rack looked like it was at least 9 ft. tall. The moose definately was aware of me well before I saw him. I was going 10 plus mph down a rocky trail, so I was making a lot of noise at the time. He had to have heard me coming. He leapt out of the woods and onto the trail with the intention of stopping me, that was always certain. I'm not sure what would have happened had Dorje not got in between us, I'll never know. The fact is he stood it off for about 10-15 seconds while I picked my bike up, turned it around, and got ready to make an escape. You're free to draw your own conclusions, but just because thats you think something doesn't make it so. No one will ever really know what the moose was doing. I have no idea if he intended to trample me or not.

  65. #65
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    You have no idea what my qualifications are.

    You're not worth the effort.

    Later

  66. #66
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    Ok, the way you see things is going to be my reality from now on. Maybe I can pm you how my day went, and you can tell me how it "really" is! No one knows if the moose would have trampled me, but given that they do trample people I was worried about it.

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    bye bye

    You have no idea what my qualifications are, either. The difference is, you have already presumed yours are more worthy.

    It's probably better that you run along and leave this issue to the big kids who realize this is a forum, and debate is natural, and disagreement can be an acceptable outcome.

    See ya.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Well Dave, after three pages of mixed responses to sharing your story, do you have any regrets at all of sharing it?

    It is interesting how rude and judgemental people can be. It reinforces my disappointment in the human race. Even seemingly intelligent people can't keep from making judgements and can't keep an open mind. Compassion is rare these days...

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    But diversity is part of human nature. If everyone were to agree with each other (even on one or two issues), the world would not be what it is...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    It is interesting how rude and judgemental people can be. It reinforces my disappointment in the human race. Even seemingly intelligent people can't keep from making judgements and can't keep an open mind. Compassion is rare these days...
    It exists.

    These will cheer you:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=242774
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=242991
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=314310
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=250546 especially post #24 to end.

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    What a good boy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I went to college in Pocatello Idaho (Idaho native) and spent much time in the Tetons skiing and mountaineering. Everything we learned was to avoid them at all costs - run away, get up a tree, big rocks, etc.

    During the winter of 1972,I watched a bull moose that was standing in the road outside Jackson Hole get annoyed at in idiot in an old VW bug. The guy kept honking at the moose. The moose turned and charged and then methodically made that veedub about 1/2 size as he pounded it from all sides. The guy was scrunched up in the middle, terrified. I was in a VW bus about 6 cars and 100 feet behind, heading north toward Jenny Lake for some xc skiing.

    After about 45 minutes of methodically charging the VW, the moose sauntered off into the woods. The fire department and sheriff had been summoned right after the first moose charge on the VW, and they sat and watched with the rest of us. When the moose finally left, they drove up and extricated the guy from his pulverized mass of metal, and waved the rest of us around. It made the cover of the Jackson Hole newspaper that week. Knowing the sherrif, I'm sure the guy got an earful, and learned his lesson about honking at a moose from 20 feet away.....

    That moose should be on a leash!
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    Great story Davec, thanks for sharing it. Its too bad some people because of their own fears lack an open mind or any true knowledge of the pitbull breed.

    I have a pit bull/lab mix and he is a wonderfull dog, very loyal and loving. Towards other dogs he is all about playing and having a good time, sure sometimes be forgets how big and strong he is when playing with other dogs and can be a little overwhelming, but as an owner I am cautious as to what other dogs he plays off leash with. Some dogs and owners can't handle his strength so I lease him. Towards people he is fine, very friendly and loves to play, I can get him fired up and rough house with me, but as soon as I say 'AH!" or "leave it" he stops. He has never bit anyone and apart from the odd growl here and there shows no aggression towards humans.

    I have grown up with dogs my whole life, my family always had 3-4 dogs at a time, all mutts. There had been several times over the years where myself, or brother was bit by one of the dogs, we had to break up dog fights on the occasion and some of the dogs were very aggressive towards other dogs and these dogs by looking at them were far from scary looking.
    The ways I always see things is "never judge a book by its cover".

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    Hey, you have one hell of a dog there. Very handsome and apparently very brave. This dog stood up to a moose to protect his owner. This is exactly why dogs are man's best friend.

    I own two yellow labs, and although they are more goofy than brave, I would put my full faith into these dogs if I were about to be attacked by a wild animal. I know they would attempt to protect me and they would fight until they died, if needed. That's courage. That's a dog. Bravo Dorje, Bravo!

  75. #75
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    That's a killer story. Thanks for sharing. Nice to see a positive story about an APBT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer
    But diversity is part of human nature. If everyone were to agree with each other (even on one or two issues), the world would not be what it is...
    I happen to think diversity is a good thing, but your conclusion would suggest otherwise.

  77. #77
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    I saw a moose up there a few years ago. Rode/pushed up (Waldrop-don't think it's called that now) to the road near the Brainard Hut, looked across the road and an adult cow was in the meadow eating (about 150 yards away). I just sat and watched for a while. Found it funny that none of the hikers walking by ever noticed it until I pointed it out.

    Glad you, your dog, and the moose parted without incidence. In Alaska, more people are killed by moose than bears. Gotta be heads up on the trails!

    Thanks for sharing the story and pics.

  78. #78
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    What an awesome pit. Obviously the dog felt that the moose was a threat and acted.
    I usually have the opposite problem that Mitrovarr describes... too many people approaching my dog, trying to pet her and asking what breed she is.

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    Best riding buddy I could ask for.

  79. #79
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    A Møøse once bit my sister...
    .
    .
    .
    Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...
    .
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    Møøse Trained by YUTTE HERMSGERVØRDENBRØTBØRDA
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    Don't harsh my mello

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    Good story! That is one of the many reasons they are always with me.

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    I can't believe you let your dog scare a moose. Don't you know that moose are protected.

    To comply with current law, you must allow the moose to stomp you into oblivion if it attacks... and don't scream loudly as you may hurt it's feelings.

    I just might have to call the Bullwinkle society and report you.

    ...and another thing. Don't you know that your pit bull could go off at any second and kill every living thing within a 100 mile radius? Don't you even care? You should thake that dog to a dentist and have rubber caps put on all of it's teeth. Then turn yourself in to the police for harboring a killer.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by wg
    A Møøse once bit my sister...
    .
    .
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    Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Møøse Trained by YUTTE HERMSGERVØRDENBRØTBØRDA
    Special Møøse Effects OLAF PROT
    Møøse Costumes SIGGI CHURCHILL
    Møøses noses wiped by BJØRN IRKESTØM-SLATER WALKER
    Was that from Holy Grail or a different movie?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    I can't believe you let your dog scare a moose. Don't you know that moose are protected.

    To comply with current law, you must allow the moose to stomp you into oblivion if it attacks... and don't scream loudly as you may hurt it's feelings.

    I just might have to call the Bullwinkle society and report you.

    ...and another thing. Don't you know that your pit bull could go off at any second and kill every living thing within a 100 mile radius? Don't you even care? You should thake that dog to a dentist and have rubber caps put on all of it's teeth. Then turn yourself in to the police for harboring a killer.
    Hilarious!

  84. #84
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    The most Holy Grrrrail with an assist from "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
    Don't harsh my mello

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlar
    What an awesome pit. Obviously the dog felt that the moose was a threat and acted.
    I usually have the opposite problem that Mitrovarr describes... too many people approaching my dog, trying to pet her and asking what breed she is.

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    Best riding buddy I could ask for.
    That too is a beautiful dog!!
    Of course people come up and try to pet him/her, because everybody knows doberman pinschers were only dangerous in the 1970s (remember The Doberman Gang?). Since the media doesn't report stories about dobermans (that is so yesterday's news) nobody is afraid anymore.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I don't need to feel guilt about people being scared by my dog because it doesn't happen.
    How would you even know? People who are worried about your dog don't necessarily scream and run away. Maybe they drive by and see you walking your pit bull on a path without a leash and think 'crap, guess I don't get to walk that path anymore'. Or maybe they retreat or circle around you without you ever seeing them.

    Look how defensive you got when I suggested you put a leash on your dog. Now, imagine that we consider your dog a legitimate threat to our dog's life - as bad as someone pointing a loaded weapon at it. See how we feel? Yeah, maybe yours is well-behaved and safe, but a ton of people out there have ones that aren't and they aren't exactly easily distinguishable.

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    Boo Hoo

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    It is interesting how rude and judgemental people can be. It reinforces my disappointment in the human race. Blah blah blah...
    Enough with the crocodile tears. You knew exactly what you were in for when you announced your dog's breed in the title of your post. This thread was a troll from the beginning.

  88. #88
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    What a great dog, truly mans best friend.

    PS: my Bianca (who protects us from bears on almost a daily basis) thinks he is quite the stud.
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    Great story! Sounds like a great riding buddy, I'm sure your dog can pick up on that moose's mood and intentions in ways we can only imagine.

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    You have a very intelligent and good looking dog. Some people are really mis-informed I found out my boxer is also an un-predictable killing machine, ready to attack innocent women and children when they least expect it. I only wish my cold blooded killing machine would protect me in a situation with a wild animal. I am afraid he would try playing with the moose instead, only making the situation worse! Dorje sounds like a great dog.

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    Last edited by Kyle509; 07-24-2007 at 08:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I was mt. biking today in the Front Range of CO when I came across a HUGE bull moose.
    I'll tell you why this post sucks - no f'n pictures of the ginormous (it's officially a word!) beast!! You couldn't whip out the camera and snap a few pictures Dave?

    Mushrooms are easy to take pictures of

    Holy cripes people have created a useless sh!tstorm out of a great story. Guess what, Dorje doesn't even care he's just looking for the next bend in the trail

    Let's hear those violins again and drown 'em out with some Dorje R&R

    Ed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    How would you even know? People who are worried about your dog don't necessarily scream and run away. Maybe they drive by and see you walking your pit bull on a path without a leash and think 'crap, guess I don't get to walk that path anymore'. Or maybe they retreat or circle around you without you ever seeing them.

    Look how defensive you got when I suggested you put a leash on your dog. Now, imagine that we consider your dog a legitimate threat to our dog's life - as bad as someone pointing a loaded weapon at it. See how we feel? Yeah, maybe yours is well-behaved and safe, but a ton of people out there have ones that aren't and they aren't exactly easily distinguishable.
    You do not have the right not to be scared!

    You do however have the right to confront and overcome your fears!~
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  93. #93
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    davec113: I love your dog. I am not a big Pit Bull fan, I live in So Cal where they are used primarily by wanna be tough guy d**kheads to feel tough, and I have had some personal experiences that have soured me against them in general. But in general is just that, and your dog is awesome. Cool thread.

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    I am just impressed that the dog came when it was called. I doubt I would've been able to find my dogs, hiding somewhere in the woods, with their heads buried firmly in the pine needles if we ever ran up on a moose...

    We have 2 greyhounds, which are viewed, in other countries, as Pit Bulls are in this country. We also have a retriever/hound mix, which neither can track a scent or has any idea or drive to retrieve. In fact, he hates the outdoors. When we take him to run in the fenced in area (private property, people who run the greyhound adoption place let us borrow their yard for our dogs), he hides in the bushes and refuses to step on wet grass.

    Great story

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyphix
    I am just impressed that the dog came when it was called. I doubt I would've been able to find my dogs, hiding somewhere in the woods, with their heads buried firmly in the pine needles if we ever ran up on a moose...

    We have 2 greyhounds, which are viewed, in other countries, as Pit Bulls are in this country. We also have a retriever/hound mix, which neither can track a scent or has any idea or drive to retrieve. In fact, he hates the outdoors. When we take him to run in the fenced in area (private property, people who run the greyhound adoption place let us borrow their yard for our dogs), he hides in the bushes and refuses to step on wet grass.

    Great story
    hehe won't step on wet grass!
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyphix
    he hides in the bushes and refuses to step on wet grass.
    First dog I had after I went to college was a hell fire terrier / cocker mix. First snowfall of the year he went ripping out the door, slipped on the sidewalk, and whacked into a tree. He wimpered so much I took him to the vet who laughed at the story and said only the doggie ego was damaged.

    The rest of his life he hated snow and tippy-toed on it like he was walking on water and was about to sink.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    First dog I had after I went to college was a hell fire terrier / cocker mix. First snowfall of the year he went ripping out the door, slipped on the sidewalk, and whacked into a tree. He wimpered so much I took him to the vet who laughed at the story and said only the doggie ego was damaged.

    The rest of his life he hated snow and tippy-toed on it like he was walking on water and was about to sink.
    Oh, oh, keep them coming!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  98. #98
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    I don't really like how pit bulls looks but urs looks very friendly. But looks can be deceiving.

  99. #99
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    Beautiful dog. The breed is a non issue and having the dog off-lease is a non issue, IMO.

    However, from what you have written, I don't see how your dog defended you from a moose. You encountered a moose in its habitat at close range and then your dog went after the moose. The moose faced you, but it was facing you to determine whether you were a threat or not. I guarantee you it was as startled as you were.

    BTW, your dog is actually very lucky it wasn't injured. Not even a healthy wolf would go head to head with a healthy bull moose. If your dog hadn't of gone after the moose, in all likelihood it would have moved on without any issue.

    We come across moose all the time. They can be dangerous to people (highly territorial and aggressive during breeding in Sept/Oct), but injury to people is rare. It does happen though.

    Funny story. We knew this itty bitty kitty cat that used to stalk moose (which we frequenty see) outside of a family cabin NE of Yellowstone. It was hilarious as the cat would get close, look like it was going to pounce, and then realize that game did not have a future. But he'd do it over and over. No moose even blinked twice over that darn cat and its stalking antics.

    edit: Interesting aside. I see you are in Colorado. CDOW brought moose into colorado (north park) in the late 1970s. There is a debate as to whether moose were introduced (brought in for the first time) or reintroduced (brought back) to Colorado.
    Last edited by cowdog; 07-23-2007 at 08:35 PM.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    I'll tell you why this post sucks - no f'n pictures of the ginormous (it's officially a word!) beast!! You couldn't whip out the camera and snap a few pictures Dave?

    Mushrooms are easy to take pictures of

    Holy cripes people have created a useless sh!tstorm out of a great story. Guess what, Dorje doesn't even care he's just looking for the next bend in the trail

    Let's hear those violins again and drown 'em out with some Dorje R&R

    Ed
    I wish I had pics! The thought didn't occur to me until a couple hours later, but there just wasn't enough time.

    As far as the $hitstorm, I won't participate next time, lesson learned

    Thats a great pic, btw...

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigred67
    Oh, oh, keep them coming!

    My Pit behaves like a spoiled indoor dog at home. He doesn't want to walk out to the backyard in the rain, and as soon as he goes outside and feels raindrops on his back he turns around and slinks back into the house with a hurt look on his face.

  102. #102
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    Found it! I fell in love with this pic of Dorje when I first saw it.

    Ears sailing in the wind - railing the singletrack as only four paw drive can = Pure unbridled joy!

    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  103. #103
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    Credit goes to edemtbs for that pic too!

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    When I lived in Fairbanks My Airedale wanted some moose bad. Evidently Airedales aren't that smart!

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    First dog I had after I went to college was a hell fire terrier / cocker mix. First snowfall of the year he went ripping out the door, slipped on the sidewalk, and whacked into a tree. He wimpered so much I took him to the vet who laughed at the story and said only the doggie ego was damaged.

    The rest of his life he hated snow and tippy-toed on it like he was walking on water and was about to sink.
    Good story

    Oddly enough, this dog loves snow. Its only wet grass, mud, and puddles that he hates.

    Here is the dog, named Baxter, with our male Greyhound before he gained all the weight back (when we got that greyhound, he weighed 53lbs, now up to 78lbs. Goal is 90-100lbs to be a healthy off track weight for his height).


    Sorry to hijack the thread

  106. #106
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    I really liked your post! Pamper your dog, he deserves it.

    I have always liked the idea to have a dog to take while riding, but I live alone and it wouldn't be fair for the dog to be locked up all day during weeks, so I prefer not to have one.

    I'm glad everything went fine and nobody got hurt! Nice pictures.

  107. #107
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    Dave - Nice, that looks like a good woods dog. Pit's are cool dogs. Good instincts.

    Haters/Morons - Rub your eyes, stand up and go outside.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    I have always liked the idea to have a dog to take while riding, but I live alone and it wouldn't be fair for the dog to be locked up all day during weeks, so I prefer not to have one.
    same here.. I love dogs.. but i won't have one again until I move to a house in the future... they need space..it would be awful to leave the poor dog alone at home all day (on a small space)... if he has where to play or so..at least he can "entertain" itself

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    No good

    [QUOTE=

    Just keep the damn thing on a leash and carry a high-powered rifle if you're worried about moose. I know the gun won't go off randomly, but I have no such assurances about your animal.[/QUOTE]


    You would actually rather have people carrying guns than walking their dogs unleashed! ....

    Sorry man but that's the worst thing I've ever heard!

  110. #110
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    1) Beautiful dog.
    2) Great story and lucky for you, Dorje and the Moose.
    3) Leash laws are for fools. A mean dog is a mean dog is a mean dog. Comprende?

    We've raised dogs since '93. We've had good ones. We've had bad ones. A neighbor's dog (mix pit bull, rotweiller, cane corsa) attached my son last summer in our yard. Jumped our fence. Scared my son. No bites-the dog clamped down on his shirt, I got the shirt off of him and called my neighbor and 911. After a lot of ill will with the neighbor and a report filed with animal control, his dog once again got in my yard while my kids were out playing. Getting to the boiling point now. I call the police and file reports with animal control once more. This was this past march. During this episode the attending police officer makes some comment that he's had to shoot these dogs before and that I should consider owning a fire arm for this reason.

    Today: I got an FOID card (my wife love's that). I purchased a hand gun. And I only did it because of the way my jack ass neighbor raises his dogs--in his garage.

    Before anyone jumps down my throat about harming animals, my kids come first. Will I go to jail? If it saves my kids from bodily harm, I don't care. Will my neighbor sue me? Abso-effing-lutely.

  111. #111
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    Too bad its illegal to shoot your neighbor.
    Animals arent mean. Its not an animal trait. its a human trait. Animals are defensive and teritorial. Its how you raise them that decides whether they stays defensive and teritorial.

    Great post davec113. Your dog looks so happy in those pictures!
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    can't wait til this guy is old enough to take out with me:




  113. #113
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    dave, great post, I read it when you first posted, was having a day where the pc dorks of the world were getting to me, so didnt reply.. F&$K interesting to come back and read. It leaves me speechless, sure it is a free world, but talk about piss on dave's fisn n chips...

    Heavens to morgatroid, what is the world becoming??????????
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  114. #114
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    Listen!

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingMonkeySith
    Too bad its illegal to shoot your neighbor.
    Animals arent mean. Its not an animal trait. its a human trait. Animals are defensive and teritorial. Its how you raise them that decides whether they stays defensive and teritorial.

    Great post davec113. Your dog looks so happy in those pictures!
    There are no absolutes with dogs/dog behavior. You can still get a rotten apple from a great home.

    And yeah, I'd rather shoot my neighbor. He's got a crappy 4' wooden fence for his two 100+ lb dogs. They live in his single stall garage year round which if you get within 30 ft or downwind of, reaks! He's never socialized either dog, no walks on leashes, no bark park, nothing..just lets them live in the garage and my Expedition wouldn't fit in the section of his yard he's got fenced in.

    Still though, dogs are great and Dorje certainly RAWKS!

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr
    There are no absolutes with dogs/dog behavior. You can still get a rotten apple from a great home.

    And yeah, I'd rather shoot my neighbor. He's got a crappy 4' wooden fence for his two 100+ lb dogs. They live in his single stall garage year round which if you get within 30 ft or downwind of, reaks! He's never socialized either dog, no walks on leashes, no bark park, nothing..just lets them live in the garage and my Expedition wouldn't fit in the section of his yard he's got fenced in.

    Still though, dogs are great and Dorje certainly RAWKS!
    Man Binge, that guy sucks.


    To the OP, awsome dog!

    I think I Have a Pit/Lab mix, we adopted her from the pound after she was abused. Looking back, I don't think I'd do it that way again. You never know what kind of temperment you will get. We've already decided when we get a larger lot we'll adopt through the foster program run by the lady who boards our dog, and yes, runs the day care Sitka goes to once a week

    We had some issues to work out in the beginning, including who was the pack leader. But after three years she is the best damn dog we could ever ask for. To say she is good with our 8 month old daughter is an understatement. And a couple weeks ago we rode through a herd of Whitetail deer and she didn't leave my heal. I was never more proud of her.



    To all the whiners, especially that first dude and his mom, how you react to the dog has a far greater impact on how that dog behaves around you. Act freaked out and dog gets freaked out too.
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  116. #116
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    So true DHD! Calm owner calm dog.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr
    1) Beautiful dog.
    2) Great story and lucky for you, Dorje and the Moose.
    3) Leash laws are for fools. A mean dog is a mean dog is a mean dog. Comprende?

    We've raised dogs since '93. We've had good ones. We've had bad ones. A neighbor's dog (mix pit bull, rotweiller, cane corsa) attached my son last summer in our yard. Jumped our fence. Scared my son. No bites-the dog clamped down on his shirt, I got the shirt off of him and called my neighbor and 911. After a lot of ill will with the neighbor and a report filed with animal control, his dog once again got in my yard while my kids were out playing. Getting to the boiling point now. I call the police and file reports with animal control once more. This was this past march. During this episode the attending police officer makes some comment that he's had to shoot these dogs before and that I should consider owning a fire arm for this reason.

    Today: I got an FOID card (my wife love's that). I purchased a hand gun. And I only did it because of the way my jack ass neighbor raises his dogs--in his garage.

    Before anyone jumps down my throat about harming animals, my kids come first. Will I go to jail? If it saves my kids from bodily harm, I don't care. Will my neighbor sue me? Abso-effing-lutely.
    Thats a horrible situation to be in.

    I know its not your fault, but maybe you should add onto that fence. It would sure beat having to shoot the dog, and theres no gaurantee the dog won't get a piece of someone before you can go shoot it. Also, I'm sure the hassle with the law would suck when you had to justify your use of the firearm (not that you'd get in any trouble, but there would be questions and paperwork). I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything that threatened my family, dog or otherwise.

    You might also want to suggest that the police investigate whether or not the dogs are being abused. If the living conditions are that bad it may not be legal.

    Anyway, Pits mixed with guard-type dogs are popular with drug dealers and meth heads. Pits by themselves aren't aggressive enough, and some bloodlines can't be tought to be police dogs because they will refuse to go after people. Pit crosses are much more likely to be dangerous than a purebred Pit.

  118. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Great pic!

    If dogs were the dominant species the world would be a much better place for sure.

  119. #119
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    damn, that is a pretty sweet story for the grandkids.

    you have an awesome dog btw

  120. #120
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    What, no pics of the moose? Fido's risking his life, and you don't even have the decency to snap a few action shots?

  121. #121
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    Great Dog. We should all be so lucky to have such a good companion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    You ride around with an UNLEASHED PIT BULL? People like you are why my mom is terrified to walk her dog anywhere outside of town..
    If your mom is worried about dog attacks please supply her with a .22 pistol, a knife, a club or a sharpened stick.
    A sharpened pencil is a great weapon and easy to come by.
    Teach her how to use the provided weapon. Practice using the weapon.
    The world can be a dangerous place irrespective of a leash or not. Ripping the guy with the hero dog isn't going to make your Mom less frightened.

    Teach her how not to be afraid. Weapons are your friends.

  122. #122
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    I have owned Pitbulls for a long time. I've been involved with APBT rescues, please read below...

    Ten Commandments of Pit Bull Ownership

    1.
    Thou shalt NEVER trust thy Pit Bull not to fight

    2.
    Thou shalt contain thy Pit Bull securely when not supervised by an adult

    3.
    Thou shalt NEVER leave thy adult Pit Bull alone and unsupervised with another dog

    4.
    Thou SHALT attend obedience classes most faithfully with thy Pit Bull

    5.
    Thou SHALT keep thy Pit Bull socialized with ALL KINDS of people

    6.
    Thy Pit Bull wilt NEVER be allowed off-leash in a public place

    7.
    Thy Pit Bull wilt NEVER be allowed to roam free in thy neighborhood, EVER!

    8.
    Thou SHALT take thy well trained Pit Bull out in public and show him/her off - on leash for good breed PR!

    9.
    Thy Pit Bull shalt go forth into the world as an ambassador of the pit bull breed

    10.
    THOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY WRONG DONE BY THY DOGS!

  123. #123
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    Interesting thread. I've been wondering what all the responses were about, but didn't have time to sit and read through them until now.

    The raising-of-hackles aside, an off-the-leash dog can indeed be a very threatening experience. I've been chased and bitten numerous times, both on the road and on the trail. And *every* owner *always* says something along the lines of: "I don't understand it! He's never acted that way! He's such a sweet dog, really!"

    I'm glad your dog is obviously well-trained, and I wish that could be said for all dogs that are allowed off the leash in public spaces.

    Glad you and your gorgeous doggie are safe and happy.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3ksmith
    Ripping the guy with the hero dog isn't going to make your Mom less frightened.
    Gawd, I wish I could have said that so well! Well stated!
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitrovarr
    You ride around with an UNLEASHED PIT BULL? People like you are why my mom is terrified to walk her dog anywhere outside of town.

    Even if it's the best dog in the world (which it may well be, given this encounter!), this is only acceptable if you never, ever see a stranger on the trail or you own the land. No matter how good his behavior is, the other dog can always be the one to start a fight, and if it's on a leash you are the one in the wrong. Not to mention that a loose pit bull is incredibly intimidating - if I saw it way up the trail I would consider it necessary to turn around or detour way above it. No one else knows if your dog is wonderful or psychotic.
    f u.

  126. #126
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    cute dog justconnor, my guy looks just like that except for a white chest and white paw. I take it he's a lab/pit mix?

  127. #127
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    Cool dog story!

  128. #128
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    As someone who has encountered moose up close and personal, I do speak from at least some experience as I have lived in areas that they have. Understand that your mileage in encounters with animals (wild, domestic (i.e. dogs), and people) will vary.

    Moose generally aren't aggressive but can become so very quickly and they are, as the original poster noted, quite fast and agile. Don't do anything that could even remotely be considered a threat, slowly back off. If you are on a trail and a moose is too, get off the trail and let it pass by, hide behind some trees in case of being charged. Most of the time I see a moose, it's boogying (is that a word?) away but they will sometimes stand their ground.

    I'm not criticizing the original poster but your dog had the potential to really escalate the situation. It may have worked this time, but a healthy moose deals with a pack of wolves quite handily and their antlers or a kick with those hooves would have made mincemeat of poochie. If they can deal with Canis Lupus, they can deal with Canis Domesticus.

    If the moose was really enraged, it might have gone after you after dealing with the dog. I have two friends who were out riding and were tree'd by a moose for quite a while. The moose trashed one of their bikes on the ground (the funny part is that it got stuck on the spokes and dragged it through the woods. They asked the manufacturer for a crash replacement but they liked the story so much, they gave them a free bike). I'm not trying to lecture or criticize, ok?

    I have been in the mountain and a bull and a cow passed within ten yards of our group and I said very quietly, "No one move." as we had no forest to retreat into. A bull with a cow can be aggressive and I have to say, it was not the situation I wanted to be in. As one poster mentioned, they sometimes attack cars. My parents saw a moose walking down the road and someone honked their horn right behind it. It turned, charged the car, banged up the front end, and resumed walking down the road.

    They are wonderful animals and I always enjoy seeing them, with the exception of ten yards away. They are a symbol of the north woods and deserve to be so. I ride for Team Moosepoop wearing my airbrushed jerseys no less.

    Love the moose, but be aware the one you love can hurt you. There has to be some significance to that last sentence in dealing with people but I'm not quite sure what.

    P. Guin
    Attached Images Attached Images

  129. #129
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    Great strory, and great dog!
    Ive given up on trying to convince people what a great breed the APBT really is. I gladly answer questions about my dog, and the breed in general.

    here is my vicious, baby eating monster:


    and one of what that vicious hell hound has taught my previously innocent child:


    and finally the vicious attack caught on film:
    Last edited by DnA362; 07-26-2007 at 01:09 PM.
    Drop the excuses and pick up a purpose, b!tches.

  130. #130
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    I thought this whole story was fishy from the start.

    Care to explain this pic Davec113 (if that is even your real name!?)

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=111
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  131. #131
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    Ha ha ha! It's an orange-and-white tabby to the rescue!!

    Good one.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin

  132. #132
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    Thank goodness for Huckin Kitty!!!!!!
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinguwin
    As someone who has encountered moose up close and personal, I do speak from at least some experience as I have lived in areas that they have. Understand that your mileage in encounters with animals (wild, domestic (i.e. dogs), and people) will vary.

    Moose generally aren't aggressive but can become so very quickly and they are, as the original poster noted, quite fast and agile. Don't do anything that could even remotely be considered a threat, slowly back off. If you are on a trail and a moose is too, get off the trail and let it pass by, hide behind some trees in case of being charged. Most of the time I see a moose, it's boogying (is that a word?) away but they will sometimes stand their ground.

    I'm not criticizing the original poster but your dog had the potential to really escalate the situation. It may have worked this time, but a healthy moose deals with a pack of wolves quite handily and their antlers or a kick with those hooves would have made mincemeat of poochie. If they can deal with Canis Lupus, they can deal with Canis Domesticus.

    If the moose was really enraged, it might have gone after you after dealing with the dog. I have two friends who were out riding and were tree'd by a moose for quite a while. The moose trashed one of their bikes on the ground (the funny part is that it got stuck on the spokes and dragged it through the woods. They asked the manufacturer for a crash replacement but they liked the story so much, they gave them a free bike). I'm not trying to lecture or criticize, ok?

    I have been in the mountain and a bull and a cow passed within ten yards of our group and I said very quietly, "No one move." as we had no forest to retreat into. A bull with a cow can be aggressive and I have to say, it was not the situation I wanted to be in. As one poster mentioned, they sometimes attack cars. My parents saw a moose walking down the road and someone honked their horn right behind it. It turned, charged the car, banged up the front end, and resumed walking down the road.

    They are wonderful animals and I always enjoy seeing them, with the exception of ten yards away. They are a symbol of the north woods and deserve to be so. I ride for Team Moosepoop wearing my airbrushed jerseys no less.

    Love the moose, but be aware the one you love can hurt you. There has to be some significance to that last sentence in dealing with people but I'm not quite sure what.

    P. Guin
    Yes, 10 yards was about the distance I was at too. Scary.... I agree the dog could have made things worse, but I think the Moose was deciding on whether I should be stomped at the time, and thats why Dorje attacked him. Dorje has a high prey drive, but he's fine with horses, he's been close to Llamas, and generally has good judgement. If it charged we would have been lucky to survive. I can only speculate on what could have happened, but this seems like the best possible outcome.

    Are they territorial? ...should I brave riding that trail again or wait until later?

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    I thought this whole story was fishy from the start.

    Care to explain this pic Davec113 (if that is even your real name!?)

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=111

    You got me. Huckin' Kitty saved us, I just can't bear to admit it

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    You got me. Huckin' Kitty saved us, I just can't bear to admit it
    There was a BEAR there too,...! This story is getting weirded by the minute!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  136. #136
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    Wow, this thread really blew up! Dave - I'll ride with your dog anytime.

    As far as the territorial thing goes, I wouldn't worry about it. I generally see cows up there a couple times per year, but I've never seen a bull. I think they like to come down to that lake.
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  137. #137
    He be a moose too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Are they territorial? ...should I brave riding that trail again or wait until later?
    Generally territorial in the sense of this is my-moose-space and not another-moose's-space. I wouldn't worry too much about them as you've mentioned you don't see them a lot. If there was one particular area where you were seeing them on a regular basis, especially during the mating season, that might be a different issue.

    Just talked to my parent's tonight about meeses and they mentioned they were on a portage (carrying canoe & gear between lakes) in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and they had to wait a long time for a cow & calf on a portage. They just kept munching and didn't much feel like moving. That, naturally, is another combo to watch out for. Happy Moosing.

    P. Guin

  138. #138
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    Dorje is terrifying, I know first hand of his visciousness, I witnessed him jump in Dave's car covered in mud during a wet spring trip in Fruita and he wouldn't get out! The interior was trashed, what a brutal dog

  139. #139
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    ummm....In 5 pages of dialogue has NO ONE replied that lives in Colorado?

    Moose do not exist anywhere near Colorado. I have lived on the Front Range for 8 years and biked it for 4. It MIGHT have been an Elk, but even Elk are scarce on the Front Range (expecially the southern part of the Front Range). I don't want to be a punk, but it seems like that has riden in Colorado (screw that, lives in Colorado) should be able to call this out. I do appreciate that it contributed in a small way to the hilarity that is the Huckin' Kitty thread, but I have to question the sincerity of this post. I am not questioning the integrity of the dog or his potential for heroic deeds. I am sure he is a great dog.

    I had to say something, and maybe I will be eating my words some time in the near future.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyc9
    ummm....In 5 pages of dialogue has NO ONE replied that lives in Colorado?

    Moose do not exist anywhere near Colorado. I have lived on the Front Range for 8 years and biked it for 4. It MIGHT have been an Elk, but even Elk are scarce on the Front Range (expecially the southern part of the Front Range). I don't want to be a punk, but it seems like that has riden in Colorado (screw that, lives in Colorado) should be able to call this out.
    Did you read post #138, just three posts above yours, where another Colorado resident states he has seen moose in the same area?

    You might want to look at this from the Colorado Division of Wildlife:
    http://wildlife.state.co.us/Educatio...untsCWCF00.htm

    and then start eating those words about "Moose do not exist anywhere near Colorado."

    Or this: http://www.dminn.com/Pages/Moose.html

    Or this: http://www.cnr.uidaho.edu/range556/A...e_willow2.html

    Or this: http://stripe.colorado.edu/~mitton/Moose.htm

    Or this: http://www.blessed2bless.us/photos/colorado-moose.html

    And I'm in central California and I know how to use Google........

    Would you like fries with that?!??????
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  141. #141
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    I almost got tramped by a moose in the never summer wilderness. My pit sharpei chased it into the woods then back around at us.

    Oh wait, maybe it was a giant beaver?

    seriously though, the moose is loose in co. I read it on the internets and saw with my own eyes

  142. #142
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    I stand humbly corrected.

    I just had my doubts. I have lived Colorado Springs for 8 years and I have explored the front range extensively.

    Please actually look at the links you attached. One is primarily about elk. The first link shows a really nice color map. On that color map it indicates that light green has a likely (likely, not for certain) occurence of moose of 1-2. The dark green indicates a likely occurence of 3-4 moose. Do you realize that outside of Antarctica that is one of the least dense populations ever?!?

    So maybe moose exist in Colorado, but they are EXTREMELY EXTREMELY rare.
    Thank you for the information.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyc9
    I stand humbly corrected.

    I just had my doubts. I have lived Colorado Springs for 8 years and I have explored the front range extensively.

    Please actually look at the links you attached. One is primarily about elk. The first link shows a really nice color map. On that color map it indicates that light green has a likely (likely, not for certain) occurence of moose of 1-2. The dark green indicates a likely occurence of 3-4 moose. Do you realize that outside of Antarctica that is one of the least dense populations ever?!?

    So maybe moose exist in Colorado, but they are EXTREMELY EXTREMELY rare.
    Thank you for the information.
    Yes I did read quite a bit more than I posted:


    From Idaho and the Northwest to Colorado and Utah, moose populations are booming across the West, and not just in the deepest forests farthest removed from civilization.
    In Idaho, alone, the moose population has doubled over the past 20 years and is currently estimated at 20,000.



    HUNTSVILLE, Utah -- It was a rough day to be a moose. Several were stalked by helicopter, captured with a net, blindfolded and then airlifted to trailers for a six-hour drive. The moose woke up in Utah on Friday but were going to sleep in Colorado.


    In Colorado there is no historical documentation
    of a native moose population, although individuals
    from populations in Utah and Wyoming were seen
    occasionally, prior to 1978. In that year the
    Colorado Division of Wildlife (DOW) began the
    introduction of moose into northern Colorado.


    Since the transplants, our moose have thrived and expanded their range into good habitats. Colorado’s moose population now is approaching 1,000 animals statewide. They have grown so dramatically that limited hunting is offered in North Park, Middle Park and the Laramie River area. Not only do the moose provide recreational opportunities for sportspeople, they also have become a main attraction for all of those who enjoy watching wildlife. In recognition of this wildlife phenomena, the state legislature designated Walden as the "Moose Viewing Capital of Colorado" in 1995.

    Colorado’s moose population now is approaching 1,000 animals statewide. But it’s difficult to census moose because they are solitary animals, unlike elk that travel in herds. “Moose pioneer very well,” Ellenberger said. “They’ll show up 50 to 60 miles away from a transplant area.”

    Much, much more here!
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  144. #144
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I was mt. biking today in the Front Range of CO when I came across a HUGE bull moose. I was going about 10 mph down a rolling, rocky trail when the moose crashed out of the woods and onto the trail about 20-30 ft in front of me, WAY too close for comfort. I skidded to a stop and watched as the moose turned to face me. It was huge, his head must have stood 8 ft tall, and he had enormous antlers. I was deciding what to do, resisting the urge to run, but looking for an escape route... I didn't think I had much of a chance if he charged, but was poised to run at a 90 degree angle to the trail and into the densest trees I could find when my dog Dorje jumped out of the woods between the moose and me, ran at the moose, jumped up at him but didn't manage to get a good hold on the moose. The moose swung at him with his antlers, but Dorje jumped back out of the way. The moose was surprisingly fast and graceful with his attack for such a huge animal. Dorje responded by barking and growling at the moose, and stood his ground. It was a standoff... So, I decided a retreat was in order, and got on my bike pointed away from the moose, which was a downhill slope at that point in the trail (great luck). I called Dorje with a "Lets Go!", the signal I am getting on my bike and leaving the area. Thankfully, he backed away from the moose and followed me down the trail. He had a huge grin on his face, this was great fun for him.

    Some pics from today and one from this spring:










    Nice looking Pit

  145. #145
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    Not to stomp on the Pitbull lovin' (they are nice pics for sure, and I am a dog lover), but I have to say that they do put me on edge.

    There was an attack on a 6-y.o. boy by a pit not too far from here (Bath, NY) recently that sent him to the hospital. The dog was put to sleep.

    You can't ignore the fact that it seems that most attacks are from pits.

    I never hear of bichon's or labs causing serious harm or death to small children. I guess knowing that a certain breed of dog can take out my kids causes me some unrest. I'd be nervous over an unleashed pit (or Rot for that matter) playing at a park.

    Just putting the facts out there is all. Leave your emotions at the door....

  146. #146
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    Dude, that last comment about how most attacks are from pits is completely irresponsible and uneducated. Pit attacks are the most covered by the media. My wife is a surgeon and spends most of her time sewing up kids and grown ups that have been bitten by their lab or dogs that are way smaller. Do some research before you make an ignorant comment like that.

  147. #147
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    Hey Wadsworth

    Seems you are the uneducated one, my friend. I avoided the lawyer's dogbite stats, and instead found this reputable research from the JVMA (yes, pulled from a lawyer's site but it's a research journal for vets).

    Read on and get educated, particularly the chart documenting 20 yrs of dogbites/deaths by breed. Just stating the facts is all.

    Of course any dog can bite, but rots and pits are obviously more dangerous and powerful is what I conclude.

    http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

  148. #148
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    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  149. #149
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    And the earth is flat....damned science!!!

    Let's throw it all out the window and live on faith!

    I'll start breeding my bichon to be a fighting dog. Call me Mike Vick!!!!

    You mustn't blind yourself to reality in your pursuit of philosophical truths, Slocaus.

    Sorry to the pit lovers again. Not trying to tick you off....

  150. #150
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    "There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    It is the [email protected]#$%^&* OWNER who trains (or neglects) it NOT the dog.........
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashNY
    Hey Wadsworth

    Seems you are the uneducated one, my friend. I avoided the lawyer's dogbite stats, and instead found this reputable research from the JVMA (yes, pulled from a lawyer's site but it's a research journal for vets).

    Read on and get educated, particularly the chart documenting 20 yrs of dogbites/deaths by breed. Just stating the facts is all.

    Of course any dog can bite, but rots and pits are obviously more dangerous and powerful is what I conclude.

    http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

    I'm curious how they determine "Pit Bull Type" in that study. If you recall the woman who was killed in SF a year or two ago by Mastiffs, there was a lot of rhetoric about the dogs being pits. So I'm curious if "large powerful dogs" are just lumped in to Pit Bull Type. Pits were bred not to bite people. The ones that did were offed immediately. So I conclude that it's all on the owner.

  152. #152
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    owners, rriiiiiggghhht

    Yeah, blame it on the owners. Another weak excuse to try and deny the fact that these dogs are obviously more dangerous than, hmmmm, every other breed of dog that exists.

    When a poorly trained lab gets loose, people don't get killed.

    And I guess we're supposed to be able to visually ascertain a pit bull owner's skill level when we're out in public with our kids and see one running loose.

    Oh, and quite interesting that the "purebred" pit bulls appear to be MORE dangerous than the mixed ones, contrary to what the pitbull "experts" here have been proclaiming.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashNY
    Hey Wadsworth

    Seems you are the uneducated one, my friend. I avoided the lawyer's dogbite stats, and instead found this reputable research from the JVMA (yes, pulled from a lawyer's site but it's a research journal for vets).

    Read on and get educated, particularly the chart documenting 20 yrs of dogbites/deaths by breed. Just stating the facts is all.

    Of course any dog can bite, but rots and pits are obviously more dangerous and powerful is what I conclude.

    http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

    I found your citation an interesting read. What did you think of the discussion?

    Here are a few quotes from the manuscript.
    First, the human DBRF reported here are likely
    underestimated; prior work suggests the approach
    we used identifies only 74% of actual cases.1,2 Second,
    to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy
    than those by other breeds, our methods may
    have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities
    by breed. Third, because identification of a dog’s breed
    may be subjective (even experts may disagree on the
    breed of a particular dog), DBRF may be differentially
    ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.
    My take? The authors do a great job of identifying possible flaws with their data analysis (something that all good manuscripts should do). Before anybody makes a snap judgement of the easy to read tables, maybe they should put the tables into context.

    What did you think of the methods (procedures)? I'm not a vet, but they didn' t describe how each breed was determined.

    My take? This is a huge flaw and leaves room to question their analysis (Although, if you read the methods it tells you that this is from a large database. Databases only hold a record of what people put in. This is why Pit Bull type dog is used instead of American Staffordshire terrier or such. My guess is that many of the dogs in the database are subject to a biased determination of their breed. For example: One of my mixed breed (short haired) dogs has been described by my vet as a lab mix. However, when she was attacked by another dog, the emergency vet described her as a Pit Bull mix. I mean she was in a dog fight she must be a Pit Bull right?

    I'm sure the database did not use the optimal method for determining the breeds of Pit Bull type dog
    For optimal enforcement, there would need
    to be an objective method of determining the breed of
    a particular dog. Pedigree analysis (a potentially timeconsuming
    and complicated effort) combined with
    DNA testing (also time-consuming and expensive) is
    the closest to an objective standard for conclusively
    identifying a dog’s breed.
    The authors even conclude that there are many factors that make a dog dangerous.

    [QUOTE]Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensity
    to bite, including heredity, sex, early experience,
    socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral),
    reproductive status, quality of ownership and
    supervision
    , and victim behavior.[/QUOTE]

    I am really enjoying all the posts, keep them coming.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  154. #154

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    I was riding alone on the front range yesterday at a little secret spot. It was about 7.35pm and I was coming around a switchback very slowly. It was pretty hot and the climb was quite tough, so I was breathing heavy and sweating hard. Out of the right corner of my eye I saw some movement in the bushes next to me, but didn't think anything of it. All I was focused on was making it to the top of the climb. About 2 mins later I smelt this really musky scent, like a cross between a dirty dog and a skunk. Again I thought nothing of it.

    As I reached the pinnacle of the climb I heard a loud crashing sound right behind me. The tree's were being forced apart and trunks and branches were snapping like twigs! Being surprised and scared as hell I obviously didn't stop to hang out. I went over the top of the climb and pedaled as hard as I could down the trail. My speed was picking up as I hit the downhill section of steep, rocky, rooty path. As I pedaled hard I reached into my sidepack with my left hand and grabbed my camera. Holding it over my shoulder, I snapped a pick of the charging beast behind me. This is all I got...



    I could feel it's firey, foul breath on the back of my neck. It's stench was near overwhelming. I was flying downhill fast BUT it was STILL gaining on me. I noticed a large smooth rock to my left of the trail. I hit it a little sketchy around 20mph and took off over a small ravine. But my speed caused me to veer towards a large tree just off the side of the trail. My handlebars caught a branch and forced them into my gut, knocking the wind out of me as I went over the bars and hard into the tough dirt. In the blink of an eye the beast was on me and I realized my time was up. I prepared for my fate...

    THEN...out of nowhere came my trusty hounds, Winston and Charlie, two loyal, trained killers. Winston lept between me and the heaving beast, and as the beast struck with its huge snarling mouth, Winston jumped up and bit it hard on the nose, stunning the beast momentarily. Charlie launched himself into the air, and hit the beast dead between the eyes with a flying back fist/paw knocking the beast out cold.

    I gathered myself, grabbed the boys, put them in my backpack, jumped on my bike and pedaled the hell outta there. Here are my two hero's (trained killers and dinosaur slayers, but hero's nonethless):



    So just a warning to all riders on the front range - stay alert the beast may still be out there.



    (God damn i'm bored....)

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    Oh, and quite interesting that the "purebred" pit bulls appear to be MORE dangerous than the mixed ones, contrary to what the pitbull "experts" here have been proclaiming.
    I'd again like to point out this poster's disregard for fact. This is not true because most breeds of dogs tend to be more human aggressive than Pits.

    This excerpt from www.justusdogs.com.au draws facts from the American Temperament Test Society, which is a 3rd party organization in no way affiliated with any pro-Pit Bull groups:

    The American Temperament Test Society, Inc. breed statistics as of December 2005 show an 83.5% passing rate for the APBT as compared to an 81.2% overall pass rate for all the different breeds they test, showing that many of these dogs have stable and dependable temperaments. They will tolerate a child's rough play in most cases, and they have a high tolerance to pain. The problem with APBT's is their sheer strength and power.. In all breeds, there will be some animals with particular aggressive tendencies, and when it happens in this breed, as opposed to a less muscled/smaller jaw powered breed, the results are generally more sever. If a Chihuahua is especially aggressive, beware your toes.... if a APBT is especially aggressive... beware.
    American Temperament Test Society, Inc.: http://www.atts.org/ The stat for APBTs has since climbed to %84.1 just ahead of the Golden Retriever.

    And this sums up the REAL problem with Pit Bulls (from justusdogs):

    Once an extremely popular family dog in the United States, the American Pit Bull Terrier's popularity began to decline in the United States following World War II. Though still kept by families in its homeland, it has come under fire in the past thirty years for its association with inner city crime and drugs. Many people breed this dog for human aggression. They exploit its incredible willingness to please its master by teaching it to aggressively guard property against humans or leave it to roam the streets, regardless that this breed of dog does not have natural watch dog tendencies. If not trained to be wary or bark at intruders, they would sooner lick a burglar to death than bite or attack. They are kept for purposes of illegal gambling and dog fighting. Unfortunately, this breed is also often the most neglected, abused or abandoned of breeds.


    heavyg, you're stating your opinions as facts on this board again. PLEASE stop! If you continue to post, try doing some research first and post a link to some decent source you are getting your information from.

  156. #156
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    I can see what people mean by saying Pits are inherently dangerous dogs as they are very strong dogs. My pit mix at 85lbs is hard to hold on a leash when he wants to go somewhere and when rough housing with him he is a handful, so when they are either trained to fight, neglected, abused and become aggressive because of that then yes, they can be dangerous, but its because of the human factor that makes them like that. You can make most any dog violent if want to by doing what i said before, but not all dogs have the strength to inflict serious damage, a Pitbull/Staffie etc has the strength if put in that position, but so do German Sheppards, Mastiffs, Rotties, even a large Lab.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashNY

    You can't ignore the fact that it seems that most attacks are from pits.

    Just putting the facts out there is all. Leave your emotions at the door....

    Was it your emotions that lead you to type that "fact" ...and then you ask for a non-emotional reply

    This thread is really amusing...

  158. #158
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    so who remembers Pete the Pup...ok I'm dating myself.

    Silly rascal of a dog, vicious he was!

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    As I type this, i'm watching the Michael Vick story on Hannity and Combs.

    Sorry, but what a f-ing low life, despicable, heartless, coward that little pr1ck is. Usually I can somewhat hide my hate for people pretty damn well but after hearing what he did to those poor dogs, I promise if I ever were to meet that little piece of stinking sh1t I would gut him like a fish, cut off his hands and feet, and feed him alive to those poor dogs.

    I hope he goes down for a long time and gets ass-raped with a foot long shank.

    People who harm innocent animals should die very painful, slow deaths.

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    danger

    That's pretty funny Dave. You ignore death stats in favor of "human aggression acts".

    Please show some facts about some retrievers killing people since you're calling people out. Call me crazy, but death is a little more serious than getting some stitches from a bite. I was just highlighting some of the interesting stats from another posters source.

    I guess discrediting the source is just another way to deny the obvious.

    There are quite a few other, more diplomatic bystanders and pit bull owners posting on this thread who recognize that a pit bull off-leash poses a greater threat than other breeds. But once again, only your opinion matters, even though it might infringe on other people's fun and enjoyment of public spaces. That's open minded there...

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    That's pretty funny Dave. You ignore death stats in favor of "human aggression acts".

    Please show some facts about some retrievers killing people since you're calling people out. Call me crazy, but death is a little more serious than getting some stitches from a bite. I was just highlighting some of the interesting stats from another posters source.

    I guess discrediting the source is just another way to deny the obvious.

    There are quite a few other, more diplomatic bystanders and pit bull owners posting on this thread who recognize that a pit bull off-leash poses a greater threat than other breeds. But once again, only your opinion matters, even though it might infringe on other people's fun and enjoyment of public spaces. That's open minded there...

    Totally agree about the leash thing. Nothing would make me crazier than when I was walking my AmStaff and having some fool walking with their dog off leash. All I would hear was, "is your dog friendly?" My response would always be, "No." Just to get them to control their animal no matter the size. Here I am being responsible for my animal. Now I have to worry about some other jacka$$? If my dog bit theirs, no doubt I'd be held responsible regardless of leash.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowpug
    As I type this, i'm watching the Michael Vick story on Hannity and Combs.

    Sorry, but what a f-ing low life, despicable, heartless, coward that little pr1ck is. Usually I can somewhat hide my hate for people pretty damn well but after hearing what he did to those poor dogs, I promise if I ever were to meet that little piece of stinking sh1t I would gut him like a fish, cut off his hands and feet, and feed him alive to those poor dogs.

    I hope he goes down for a long time and gets ass-raped with a foot long shank.

    People who harm innocent animals should die very painful, slow deaths.
    Nike even suspended his endorsement contract, LOTS of people campaigned Nike to do this, myself included:

    http://actforchange.workingassets.co...?qp_source=103

    It seems like dog fighting has become especially brutal since it was made illegal. If you read the rules for dog fighting (before it was made illegal) the fight was over if one dog refused to fight (turned away from the other dog) or the ref decided to call it, now it seems like people just want to see violence. I in no way condone fighting animals or want to see it legal, but this has been an unfortunate side-effect.

    Also, whats up with all the human-fighting? It seems like cage fighting has been growing in popluarity lately...

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadsworth McStackton
    Totally agree about the leash thing. Nothing would make me crazier than when I was walking my AmStaff and having some fool walking with their dog off leash. All I would hear was, "is your dog friendly?" My response would always be, "No." Just to get them to control their animal no matter the size. Here I am being responsible for my animal. Now I have to worry about some other jacka$$? If my dog bit theirs, no doubt I'd be held responsible regardless of leash.

    I don't think there's any argument on this point, so I'm not sure why its being brought up, except heavyg has an axe to grind, and he's using my thread to do so. Thanks, douchebag Have some common courtesy and go somewhere else with your agenda, this wasn't why I started this thread. You are rude, you have no facts to back up your statements, and are spewing nonsense all over the place.

    Other posters have already pointed out the obvious issue with the death statistics, there are too many flaws in that study for any reasonable person to draw a firm conclusion. Again, no one is denying the capability of a Pit to do damage, but the liklihood that all the dogs in that study were purebred APBTs is extremely low.

    AGAIN: I don't let my dog off leash unless I'm in an area where it is allowed. People with aggresive dogs shouldn't bring their dogs to places where dogs are allowed off leash.

    But, apparently this isn't good enough for heavyg... it seems like he is in favor of all dogs being on a leash at all times, in which case he needs to stay away from places where dogs are allowed off leash. It seems so simple

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadsworth McStackton
    Totally agree about the leash thing. Nothing would make me crazier than when I was walking my AmStaff and having some fool walking with their dog off leash. All I would hear was, "is your dog friendly?" My response would always be, "No." Just to get them to control their animal no matter the size. Here I am being responsible for my animal. Now I have to worry about some other jacka$$? If my dog bit theirs, no doubt I'd be held responsible regardless of leash.
    Probably so...

    Hey, my sister was bitten by a large dog when she was only 4... Our parents had told her about not running away/showing fear around strange dogs, but this off-leash shepherd came up, and -- even though it wasnt aggressive at first -- my sister freaked out and started running.. It chased, and she got bit pretty hard on the shoulder and still has the scar.

    So.. even if you think your dog is fully predictable, you never know how others, especially kids and those with impairments, will act around them. Please keep them leashed when required!

    And. to bring it all home to the OP: Beautiful dog -- and lucky to live in such an area!

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    axe me

    I respect your right to have your dog off leash wherever it is legal to do so, and I have said so from the start.

    I also think it is rude, inconsiderate, dangerous, and selfish when pit bull owners have their dogs off-leash where it is not legal to do so. And I have seen it on more than a few occassions, while biking or hiking.

    Preaching about how the dog is not violent by nature but is "misunderstood" only serve to make the situation worse, by encouraging pit bull owners not to take any extra precautions with their animals in public, whether it is required by law or not.

    It seems like you have a big axe to grind with anybody who says anything negative about pit bulls. You think it is all propaganda and has no basis in reality. You also think that people getting nervous around your dog are "ignorant" "closed-minded" "douche-bags", to put it in your words. Nice attitude.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    You also think that people getting nervous around your dog are "ignorant" "closed-minded" "douche-bags", to put it in your words. Nice attitude.
    No, I don't. Don't tell me what I think.

    I don't take the time to analyze people I see in public and label them as ignorant or anything else for that matter. I hope you don't either. If you do maybe thats something you should think about because its not healthy.

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    Statistics vs Anecdotal Evidence

    First, I must be really bored to have read all these posts. I am sure that there are thousands of Pit Bull type dogs that are great pets. However, I trust studies more than I trust dog owners saying, "My dog would never bite anybody."
    http://dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
    Quote from above, I added the bold:
    According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal
    attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.


    Clifton, the editor of Animal People magazine, states in the 7 page study that, "this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers others with evident expertise."

    I recommend reading page 3 of the report (report can be downloaded from the linked site above), this is where some of the fatalities are explained. The lone Beagle fatality was strangulation caused by the dog tugging on the leash wrapped around a child's neck. Not germane to thread, just sad and interesting.

    My main complaint with dogs on the trails is having to ride around their poop.

    Yeah, if what is being reported is true, Vick is scum.

    I also think that even before dog fighting was made illegal it was only watched by people who wanted to see violence. They may have been upstanding citizens, donated time and money to worthy causes, but if they went to dog fights they went for the violence. That it may be more violent now doesn't change that.

    My 25 pound Wire Haired Fox Terrier was quite insulted by the Clifton study. There wasn't a single mention of his breed.

    Don't expect to change anybodies mind, just like to point out that there is a difference between anecdotal evidence (My dog would rather lick a burglar...) and scientific evidence (Procedure-Data for human DBRF identified previously for the period...). There is no perfect evidence, but some is less perfect than others.

    Sorry for the rambling post, it is getting late and I am going to bed.

    I am glad that no animals were injured in writing this thread (although I am sitting on a leather couch, it is Italian leather so the cows were probably fascists). Lighten up, it was just a Mussolini reference.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    First, I must be really bored to have read all these posts. I am sure that there are thousands of Pit Bull type dogs that are great pets. However, I trust studies more than I trust dog owners saying, "My dog would never bite anybody."
    http://dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
    Quote from above, I added the bold:
    According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal
    attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.


    Clifton, the editor of Animal People magazine, states in the 7 page study that, "this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers others with evident expertise."

    I recommend reading page 3 of the report (report can be downloaded from the linked site above), this is where some of the fatalities are explained. The lone Beagle fatality was strangulation caused by the dog tugging on the leash wrapped around a child's neck. Not germane to thread, just sad and interesting.

    My main complaint with dogs on the trails is having to ride around their poop.

    Yeah, if what is being reported is true, Vick is scum.

    I also think that even before dog fighting was made illegal it was only watched by people who wanted to see violence. They may have been upstanding citizens, donated time and money to worthy causes, but if they went to dog fights they went for the violence. That it may be more violent now doesn't change that.

    My 25 pound Wire Haired Fox Terrier was quite insulted by the Clifton study. There wasn't a single mention of his breed.

    Don't expect to change anybodies mind, just like to point out that there is a difference between anecdotal evidence (My dog would rather lick a burglar...) and scientific evidence (Procedure-Data for human DBRF identified previously for the period...). There is no perfect evidence, but some is less perfect than others.

    Sorry for the rambling post, it is getting late and I am going to bed.

    I am glad that no animals were injured in writing this thread (although I am sitting on a leather couch, it is Italian leather so the cows were probably fascists). Lighten up, it was just a Mussolini reference.
    I'm sorry but I have to jump in again. As you chose to embolden text from the manuscript and use it as fact, when the emboldened text actually contains opinion and NOT fact. When the authors use a word like apparently that means they don't know, for sure, whether this is true. Again I will state that my shorthaired mix breed dog was described as a Lab-mix by our vet. Following an attack by another dog, the emergency vet described that same dog as "Dog fight: Pit Bull mix and another dog". This example should help readers understand the variability in designating the breed of the dog by two different "experts" both well trained and respected vets. The authors of the manuscript you are quoting, only have access to a database, which means my Lab-mix dog would be classified as a Pit Bull-mix if the emergency vet reported the event to the Human Society.

    Also, I believe you provide a quote from the editor of Animal People magazine stating that the report table only includes dogs of clearly identified breed type. Maybe you could have included where they obtained the dog bite information from. I'll help you out:
    Compiled by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts since 1982,
    Now look at the discussion from the previously posted manuscript of the possible flaws in their data analysis:
    Second, to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed.
    Press accounts are biased by the publics love for sensational stories.

    Also, if the 7 page report by the editor of Animal People magazine had well identified dog breeds determined by experts, why is there no American Staffordshire Terrier included in the report. A well known "Pit Bull type" dog? Additionally, how is it that they know a dog was a Pit Bull, but were unable to determine what other breed it was mixed with (Pit Bull mix unknown)? Sounds biased to me.

    Sounds to me like each report may possibly be biased "scientific" information, as acknowledged by the authors of the first report.

    I won't argue that Pit Bull type dogs don't kill people, they do. I also won't argue that every other dog on those lists don't kill people, because they do.

    I'll even admit that if I see an unattended Pit Bull type dog unattended, I will be very cautious.

    However, I think we can all agree that davec113 appears to be a great dog owner and Dorje is a well behaved dog. This is shown by the report that Dorje immediately broke off her fight from the Moose when davec113 called her. In how many of the Pit Bull type dog attacks did the dogs immediately stop when a command was issued? This seperates Dorje from any mistreated dog that would injure another living animal.

    Keep the thread going, I think we are all really enjoying the debate.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    I respect your right to have your dog off leash wherever it is legal to do so, and I have said so from the start.

    I also think it is rude, inconsiderate, dangerous, and selfish when pit bull owners have their dogs off-leash where it is not legal to do so. And I have seen it on more than a few occassions, while biking or hiking.Agreed, its wrong for any dog owner to have their dog off leash in areas that are not legal off-leash areas, but don't be inconsiderate yourself and label the pitbull owners as the bad owners, its all owners.

    Preaching about how the dog is not violent by nature but is "misunderstood" only serve to make the situation worse, by encouraging pit bull owners not to take any extra precautions with their animals in public, whether it is required by law or not. That statement is just retarded, I don't know how you came up with that. No one here is encouraging us pit owners to not use caution. I have seen nothing but good judgement from everyone who has posted that owns a pit.

    It seems like you have a big axe to grind with anybody who says anything negative about pit bulls. You think it is all propaganda and has no basis in reality. You also think that people getting nervous around your dog are "ignorant" "closed-minded" "douche-bags", to put it in your words. Nice attitude.
    I don't see anyone having an axe to grind except you, you are totally biased against pits and have no solid evidence to stand on, you sound like the typical ignorant person who believes everything the media has stated about this breed, you have totally fallen to the stereotype. You sound very "ignorant, and close minded" and its very clear in my opinion that you are not looking at the big picture.

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    Awesome story! Very sharp dog as well. I loved riding with my dog when she was younger and could keep up, and I love coming across dogs in the woods. Personally, a physical leash in the woods does not make sense to me. The leash laws in my parts require the dog to be in your control, and my dogs have always been trained to that standard without any physical tether. I've been asked to demonstrate for LEO, and after a successful demonstration have been sent on my way with a smile.

    Some dogs are mean, some dogs are nice. The deciding factor in this is how the dog is raised, not the breed. My boxer/ridgeback mix is a perfect example, bred to be tough as nails but really sweet as pie. If attacked by another dog she'll put it down, but she's NEVER started anything. When I rode with her, she’d only approach others if I gave the ok. If someone didn’t want to pat her, I’d say “leave it” and she wouldn’t go near the person. If they stopped to pat her, I’d say “it’s ok, go make friends” and she’d go get a scratch and give a few kisses in return.

    As someone mentioned, there is no right not to be scared. If you're afraid of dogs, that's your problem. Overcome your fears, carry pepper spray, avoid places dogs may be, these are all your rights and options. You do not have a right, however, to restrict others due to your fears.

    I've riden with dogs, knives, guns, tents, fishing poles, and people who I generally consider crazy and likely to be dangerous in the wrong situation. Unless I break a law, I have the right to do these things. Your fears are not an acceptable reason to infringe on my rights, nor my dogs. There are people out there who help one get over their fears, if you can't get over them yourselves.

    Again, great post from the OP, and beautiful dog!

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    vicious retrievers

    Still waiting to hear about even one anecdotal death from a retriever "attack". I guess the media must be covering it up.

    Yup, I am biased against pits. Any dog that has killed people on a somewhat regular basis deserves different treatment from both owners and bystanders, in my opinion. I also exercise greater caution around Rots, Pinschers, Shepherds, and any other large, strong, or particularly mean-looking dog. This is all based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience.

    If you don't agree with that stance, fine. Just don't try to decide for me which dog breeds are "safe". I''ll continue to believe that retrievers, amongst many others, require far less caution.

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    ha ha

    Did I miss the part in those stories where somebody died? Lab mix? Can't you do any better than that?

  174. #174
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    Posted by heavyg: Yup, I am biased against pits.
    Definition of bias: influence in an unfair way; a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation. (source: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&d...ition&ct=title)

    heavyg,

    As long as you admit your bias, the rest of us can go on having a valid discussion.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  175. #175
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    bias

    Everyone posting on this thread is biased. Some against the media, some for pit bulls, others against them. Makes for a good argument.

    It is ironic that the pit bull backers claim the high ground of "open-mindedness" while ignoring or insulting those of us who disagree.

    Growing up, I never saw a pit bull. Lately, it seems as if every third dog in my area is a pit bull or pit bull mix. And the dog owners are generally just as irresponsible, naive about animals, and blinded by love as they have always been. Only now they have a poorly trained animal which is plenty capable of killing people.

  176. #176
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    It is what it is. pit bulls are a very aggressive breed.
    I know all you pit bull owners are in denial and your dog is so sweet it wouldn't hurt a fly, but here is a 20 year study by the CDC.

    I rescued a pit bull one time while camping up in Leadville Co, someone camped where we were and just left theit pit bull behind. I took it home and was going to find a home for it, but that came to a halt when it latched on to the the throat of my chocolate Lab. I had to get a baseball bat to free my dog from it's lethal grip.

    I then took the dog to the Boulder humane society and let them know that the pit is dog aggressive. I first took it to the Denver shelter but they were going to destroy him because they are illegal in Denver.

    This is not about being biased one way or another...facts is facts. Face it you own an aggressive breed.



    Attacks by pit bulls accounted for about a third of the 238 fatal dog attacks in the United States during a 20-year study, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Pit bulls were blamed for killing 76 people, or 32 percent, during a study of dog attacks from 1979-1998, the study showed. Rottweilers were the second most deadly animal, reportedly killing 44 people, or 18.5 percent, during the same period.

    About 4.7 million people are bitten every year by dogs, resulting in about 12 fatalities a year, according to the federal statistics. About 500,000 to 800,000 dog bites require medical treatment annually.

    Children, according to the 2000 federal study, are the most vulnerable victims in dog attacks. Those under the age of 14 account for 42 percent of dog bite injuries. The highest rate of injuries was to children between the ages of 5 and 9.

    Of the 27 people who died in from dog bites, 19 were children under the age of 15. The animal responsible for 3 out of 4 injuries involving youth under the age of 14 is the family dog.
    Janis Bradley, an instructor in the academy for dog trainers at San Francisco's Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said the number of dog bites pales in comparison to other health threats like car accidents, which claim about 38,000 lives a year. When attacks occur, she said, people rush to criticize some dogs as threats to family safety.

    "Prudent measures can be taken to decrease the levels of attacks we do have, but there are many other injuries that present a more important threat to public health," Bradley said. "Almost anything you can think of."

    Carl Friedman, director of San Francisco's Animal Care and Control, said that although he does not want to condemn an entire breed, local and national statistics support taking steps to regulate pit bulls, such as mandatory neutering.

    "When you have a mauling where a 12-year-old child is killed and when 50 to 60 percent of our hearings for vicious and dangerous animals are for pit bulls, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to see we have a problem with pit bulls," Friedman said.
    E-mail Ryan Kim at [email protected].

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGRODDH561.DTL

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    Good story, tarnished by the zealots. (though I would have left the dog's breed out of the title)

    The OP did nothing wrong. No animals were harmed in this film. No laws broken. Just a fellow biker, a large moose and his dog. The OP appears to have a gentle dog, with no prior bite history. He is not a sociopath for taking such a dog, unleashed, in a legal area, just as I would not be for taking a standard poodle on the same trail.

    It would be an intersting social experiement if the OP photoshopped a picture of a golden retriever.

    Was the moose going to charge? Was the moose a threat? Nobody will know for sure, and those stating so emphatically otherwise are full of crap b/c you cannot know for sure what the moose's intentions were.

    I love dogs and have started taking my 10 month old Rhodesian Ridgeback with me. She does great. Before that I took my Dalmation and my prior ridegeback.

    I'd own a pit, but cannot deal with the baggage of pit ownership as demonstrated in this thread.

    I joined this board back in 97ish. . . those threads are long gone. I do recall the zealots back then flipping their **** about my dalmation off leash in the backcountry, telling me stories of fear and heinous dog attacks. . . . to the OP, you ain't gonna get anywhere with these people.

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    Awesome, another ridgeback owner! Are yours full bred? How do they hang on the trail? Mine is a rescue from the Midwest, a former street mutt, so full breed is unknown. Ridgeback & boxer are plain to see, however. She was a great trail dog when she was younger, but pushing 10 years old she can’t really hang anymore.
    The next will be another rescue, but I don’t know if I want a terrier mix or if I want to hold out searching for another with ridgeback in her. I’d be very interested to hear how a full-bred ridgeback, or even another ridgeback mix, handled the trails.
    Any pics?

  179. #179
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    You haters are completly ignoring the fact that its the DOG OWNER and not the dog. Pitbull's are a saughtafter breed by criminals, drug dealers, punk kids and owners that feel the need to have a powerfull dog to make themselves look tougher, that there is why pitbull's are given that deadly breed label. If those same people where to use German Sheppards instead it would be the German Sheppard with the negative label.

    Think of it this way, a car is a perfectly fine, but when put in the hands of a wreckless person it can be a dangerous weapon, a knife is a normal everyday item, but put in the hands of a violent criminal it will kill you, or even over the counter drugs, use them responsibly and they are good for you, over do it and they can kill you.

    Indy Dog, that pit you tried to rescue was likely abused, hence the reason it was abandoned. I'm sure with lots of work it would have been fine. There was an attack recently where i live where a loose pit mix attacked a person, nothing major, but it was running randomly through a residental area, no tags, just a big spiked collar. No owner has claimed it in over a week....yet another case of an abused, neglected pit.

    look at the past, Rotties were hated for years, Doberman's too, I think even Mastiff's as well, those days have come and gone and its not like those breeds changed over time and became less agressive or violent, its a case of the "bad owners" as a mentioned above as a trend going from one breed to another and then the media putting the spot light on each breed. In the past Pits were not even on the radar, now its their turn.


    Hate the bad owners, not the breed.

  180. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by indy dog
    It is what it is. pit bulls are a very aggressive breed.
    I know all you pit bull owners are in denial and your dog is so sweet it wouldn't hurt a fly, but here is a 20 year study by the CDC.

    I rescued a pit bull one time while camping up in Leadville Co, someone camped where we were and just left theit pit bull behind. I took it home and was going to find a home for it, but that came to a halt when it latched on to the the throat of my chocolate Lab. I had to get a baseball bat to free my dog from it's lethal grip.

    I then took the dog to the Boulder humane society and let them know that the pit is dog aggressive. I first took it to the Denver shelter but they were going to destroy him because they are illegal in Denver.

    This is not about being biased one way or another...facts is facts. Face it you own an aggressive breed.



    Attacks by pit bulls accounted for about a third of the 238 fatal dog attacks in the United States during a 20-year study, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Pit bulls were blamed for killing 76 people, or 32 percent, during a study of dog attacks from 1979-1998, the study showed. Rottweilers were the second most deadly animal, reportedly killing 44 people, or 18.5 percent, during the same period.

    About 4.7 million people are bitten every year by dogs, resulting in about 12 fatalities a year, according to the federal statistics. About 500,000 to 800,000 dog bites require medical treatment annually.

    Children, according to the 2000 federal study, are the most vulnerable victims in dog attacks. Those under the age of 14 account for 42 percent of dog bite injuries. The highest rate of injuries was to children between the ages of 5 and 9.

    Of the 27 people who died in from dog bites, 19 were children under the age of 15. The animal responsible for 3 out of 4 injuries involving youth under the age of 14 is the family dog.
    Janis Bradley, an instructor in the academy for dog trainers at San Francisco's Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said the number of dog bites pales in comparison to other health threats like car accidents, which claim about 38,000 lives a year. When attacks occur, she said, people rush to criticize some dogs as threats to family safety.

    "Prudent measures can be taken to decrease the levels of attacks we do have, but there are many other injuries that present a more important threat to public health," Bradley said. "Almost anything you can think of."

    Carl Friedman, director of San Francisco's Animal Care and Control, said that although he does not want to condemn an entire breed, local and national statistics support taking steps to regulate pit bulls, such as mandatory neutering.

    "When you have a mauling where a 12-year-old child is killed and when 50 to 60 percent of our hearings for vicious and dangerous animals are for pit bulls, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to see we have a problem with pit bulls," Friedman said.
    E-mail Ryan Kim at [email protected].

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGRODDH561.DTL




    "238 fatal dog attacks occur each year" 16,700 people were fatally attacked by another human in 2005 in the USA.
    ...So maybe we should have people on a leash whenever they're out in public too.
    We can't sanitaze all the dangers out of life for kids, or anyone.

    If we removed dogs from the trails we might as well drop the national speed limit to 15 MPH,pass a law required every person to wear body armour 24/7, and outlaw the sale of all guns, knives, and other misc. pionty items.

  181. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by dankmtb
    Awesome, another ridgeback owner! Are yours full bred? How do they hang on the trail? Mine is a rescue from the Midwest, a former street mutt, so full breed is unknown. Ridgeback & boxer are plain to see, however. She was a great trail dog when she was younger, but pushing 10 years old she can’t really hang anymore.
    The next will be another rescue, but I don’t know if I want a terrier mix or if I want to hold out searching for another with ridgeback in her. I’d be very interested to hear how a full-bred ridgeback, or even another ridgeback mix, handled the trails.
    Any pics?

    My Ridge, just like the one before her, is fantastic on the trail. (My Dalmation was a stud, though; he could clip off really intense 20 mile rides and get up the next day and to it again)

    My girl (Nala) is leggy and lean, and has a great build for running, and great form. After just 4 rides, she now craves the mileage. The big thing with dogs on trails around here, is their pads. My wife started jogging with her, and that seemed to do the trick, toughened them up enough that she's not getting sores/cuts on these nasty, rocky trails we have here in central tx.

    She drinks a lot of water in this heat, and so carrying her stash it slows me down.

    Here's a pic of her as a pup (left) with her brother (right). She's big now (75lbs); my wife has all the doggie pics on her computer.

    Every dog owner thinks their breed is the 'best', but for our purposes ridgebacks are close to perfect. Not spazzy like a lot of terriers, doesn't bark or whine, shedding is minimal, not high strung. But they are terrible counter surfers and are very stubborn dogs. . .like many hounds. Definitely not as eager to please as other breeds like labs.

    Be careful of male ridgebacks. Many can get up over 100lbs. . . not the best size of a dog for running off road, hard on their joints. In fact, my girl is on the big side for long distance running.
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  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly_foxx
    I am afraid he would try playing with the moose instead, only making the situation worse! Dorje sounds like a great dog.
    No way... Your Boxer would have just acted like Dorje did... That's what they do (the best, I would say). Protect their owners.

    Trust me, your Boxer will do just like Dorje if (God Forbids!) you see yourself in the need of.

    Great history, Dave... No matter what others say. Neither you, your dog and not even the moose knew if you were a treat to each other and it's not your fault. You don't stand in front of a wild animal that weighs a ton and is as big as a house waiting for nothing to happen. You don't go out to into the woods to ride expecting to not find any kind of wilderness... In your place is moose, other have bears, cougars, snakes, whatever.

    Glad to know you and your brave dog are fine... and the moose is unscathed!!
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  183. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by frayed cable
    My Ridge, just like the one before her, is fantastic on the trail. (My Dalmation was a stud, though; he could clip off really intense 20 mile rides and get up the next day and to it again)

    My girl (Nala) is leggy and lean, and has a great build for running, and great form. After just 4 rides, she now craves the mileage. The big thing with dogs on trails around here, is their pads. My wife started jogging with her, and that seemed to do the trick, toughened them up enough that she's not getting sores/cuts on these nasty, rocky trails we have here in central tx.

    She drinks a lot of water in this heat, and so carrying her stash it slows me down.

    Here's a pic of her as a pup (left) with her brother (right). She's big now (75lbs); my wife has all the doggie pics on her computer.

    Every dog owner thinks their breed is the 'best', but for our purposes ridgebacks are close to perfect. Not spazzy like a lot of terriers, doesn't bark or whine, shedding is minimal, not high strung. But they are terrible counter surfers and are very stubborn dogs. . .like many hounds. Definitely not as eager to please as other breeds like labs.

    Be careful of male ridgebacks. Many can get up over 100lbs. . . not the best size of a dog for running off road, hard on their joints. In fact, my girl is on the big side for long distance running.
    Awesome, thanks for the detailed response! They are both beautiful. I hear you on the water, when I rode with Sandy it was camelback for me & both water bottles for her.

    Mine makes it clear she could counter surf with her prowness on the hind legs, and the way she comes up on me for hugs. We trained her right from a young age, however, and it's never been an issue.

    In regards to eager to please, I'm surprised. Mine is more eager to please than any lab I've come across. This could be partially due to other breeds mixed in, or partially due to the fact that she went from an abused street mutt in Nebraska to one of the more spoiled dogs you'll ever meet in New England. I mean, what pup needs to counter surf or annoy the owner when shopping for dinner includes a steak for the dog? It's probably a combination of a bunch of things, but she's definatly loyal and eager to please lab-style. In all fairness, the first few months were a LOT of real hard work, harder than our previous labs. The end result was just as good if not better, so it was worth it.

    Have fun with those pups, I'd love to run into them on the trail!

  184. #184
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    Sweet, I can't believe this thread is still going.
    I own 2 Pitbulls right now, ones a mix. Both from the local rescue that I volunteer for.

    Pity owners on this board that believe it's OK to have your bully breed offleash, please go to pitbullforums.com and get educated on the facts of the issue. All this BS about bite stats is, well, BS.

    Unfortunelly, in this day and age w/ all the bully breed problems abound, it's just not an option to have your dog offleash. Maybe when this fad with the G's wears off it will be different.
    Ask any reputable APBT breeder, or rescue, they will all tell you the same. And I mean a real breeder not a back yard breeder selling "big and low Blue pits". You can't train, or socialize out generations of breeding for dog aggression. Which is much different than human aggression, but this has already been pointed out. APBT are horrible guard dogs, most people don't know this so I'm sure if someone tried to break into my house and saw Kira girl staring at them through the window they would be long gone. It's about the only bonus to APBT ignorance.

    "Ban the deed, not the breed"

  185. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dw
    Sweet, I can't believe this thread is still going.
    I own 2 Pitbulls right now, ones a mix. Both from the local rescue that I volunteer for.

    Pity owners on this board that believe it's OK to have your bully breed offleash, please go to pitbullforums.com and get educated on the facts of the issue. All this BS about bite stats is, well, BS.

    Unfortunelly, in this day and age w/ all the bully breed problems abound, it's just not an option to have your dog offleash. Maybe when this fad with the G's wears off it will be different.
    Ask any reputable APBT breeder, or rescue, they will all tell you the same. And I mean a real breeder not a back yard breeder selling "big and low Blue pits". You can't train, or socialize out generations of breeding for dog aggression. Which is much different than human aggression, but this has already been pointed out. APBT are horrible guard dogs, most people don't know this so I'm sure if someone tried to break into my house and saw Kira girl staring at them through the window they would be long gone. It's about the only bonus to APBT ignorance.

    "Ban the deed, not the breed"
    So you are a pit bull owner, and make the point that these dogs are dog aggressive and not people aggressive. I understand that. But what are the legimate reasons that a pit bull owner cannot have his dog offleash in the backcountry (we aren't in a kennel or an off leash dog park in the city), who's dog doesn't have any bite history?

    I take my dog to a local offleash park all the time. There are always a few pits there. Never had any problems.

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dw
    Sweet, I can't believe this thread is still going.
    I own 2 Pitbulls right now, ones a mix. Both from the local rescue that I volunteer for.

    Pity owners on this board that believe it's OK to have your bully breed offleash, please go to pitbullforums.com and get educated on the facts of the issue. All this BS about bite stats is, well, BS.

    Unfortunelly, in this day and age w/ all the bully breed problems abound, it's just not an option to have your dog offleash. Maybe when this fad with the G's wears off it will be different.
    Ask any reputable APBT breeder, or rescue, they will all tell you the same. And I mean a real breeder not a back yard breeder selling "big and low Blue pits". You can't train, or socialize out generations of breeding for dog aggression. Which is much different than human aggression, but this has already been pointed out. APBT are horrible guard dogs, most people don't know this so I'm sure if someone tried to break into my house and saw Kira girl staring at them through the window they would be long gone. It's about the only bonus to APBT ignorance.

    "Ban the deed, not the breed"
    3dw,

    I went to the website you suggested (pitbullforums.com) to get educated, but was unable to find any valid education related to pit bulls. Could you please provide more specific instructions about how to become educated?

    Also, I'm trying to understand how it is not an option, currently, to have pit bulls off leash, but maybe when the "G" fad wears off it will become an option. This does not make sense to me, especially in light of your other comments suggesting that it is impossible to train or socialize out years of breeding for aggression. Maybe you are saying that in, oh say, 50 to 100 years we can breed out aggression. Of course this is following the "G's" deciding they want a different breed of dog.

    The debate rages on!
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  187. #187
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    Good Dog!

    Great short story. It makes me miss my long gone Sadie. Pit bull. Riding buddy. Great friend.

    In her 9 years of nearly no leash she only got aggressive with one human. A (obvious) crack-head that ran up into my frontyard at 2:30AM while my girlfriend and I were drinking beers on the front porch. He had a wild and scared look in his eyes.
    He yell/whispers at us: 'They're comin' for me! They're comin' for me! Can I hide in your house?!?'
    I noticed there WAS a car moving slowly down the street.
    I told him to duck behind my car... but NO he's not coming in.
    The car passed by and I didn't even notice Sadie move off the porch and over right next to him.
    AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh CAll OFF Y'R Dog!
    She was right next to him... growing.
    I said, 'It... is... time... for... YOU... to... leave.'
    and he ran away like he was after the 1000 yard sprint gold medal.


    to all the Pit Bull haters... Sadie may have not been the smartest but she sure was trainable. I bet I could have taught her to kill small children and family pets... but I trained her to be a good dog... and she was.

    *edit* Oh, and by the way, whenever I rode with Sadie, and now when I ride with Sophie (boxer+??+??), I always carry a leash. You never know when you'll run into a rattlesnake, paved road, frightened hiker family, moose, etc.
    Last edited by pisgahproductions; 07-31-2007 at 06:41 PM.
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  188. #188
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    I kind of come at it from another angle. My dog is not much of a runner or a biker, but she could handle the swim part of a triathlon just fine. She more likes to hang back at camp and guard the tents. Well, guard is not exactly accurate, she is more of a greeter and drooler than a guard. She is kind of like the senior citizens that work at Wally World greeting customers, she greets you with excitement, but is no real help with.... well.... anything.



  189. #189
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    [QUOTE=jspharmd]I found your citation an interesting read. What did you think of the discussion?

    Here are a few quotes from the manuscript.


    My take? The authors do a great job of identifying possible flaws with their data analysis (something that all good manuscripts should do). Before anybody makes a snap judgement of the easy to read tables, maybe they should put the tables into context.

    What did you think of the methods (procedures)? I'm not a vet, but they didn' t describe how each breed was determined.

    My take? This is a huge flaw and leaves room to question their analysis (Although, if you read the methods it tells you that this is from a large database. Databases only hold a record of what people put in. This is why Pit Bull type dog is used instead of American Staffordshire terrier or such. My guess is that many of the dogs in the database are subject to a biased determination of their breed. For example: One of my mixed breed (short haired) dogs has been described by my vet as a lab mix. However, when she was attacked by another dog, the emergency vet described her as a Pit Bull mix. I mean she was in a dog fight she must be a Pit Bull right?

    I'm sure the database did not use the optimal method for determining the breeds of Pit Bull type dog


    The authors even conclude that there are many factors that make a dog dangerous.

    Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensity
    to bite, including heredity, sex, early experience,
    socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral),
    reproductive status, quality of ownership and
    supervision
    , and victim behavior.[/QUOTE]

    I am really enjoying all the posts, keep them coming.
    As someone trained in research methods, I have to agree to an extent about your comments. However, all those factors being taken into acct, it still appears that rots and 'pits' are showing the highest #'s, even if by error some are inaccurate ID's.

    Common sense tells me to stay aware, especially with my young children. I won't take the chance that a strong-ass dog is safe around my kids.

    There certainly may be some stereotyping I guess, but again....

  190. #190
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    [QUOTE=davec113]Was it your emotions that lead you to type that "fact" ...and then you ask for a non-emotional reply

    This thread is really amusing... [/QUOTE

    I thought I'd get that eventually. You get my point though I assume....

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Nike even suspended his endorsement contract, LOTS of people campaigned Nike to do this, myself included:

    http://actforchange.workingassets.co...?qp_source=103

    It seems like dog fighting has become especially brutal since it was made illegal. If you read the rules for dog fighting (before it was made illegal) the fight was over if one dog refused to fight (turned away from the other dog) or the ref decided to call it, now it seems like people just want to see violence. I in no way condone fighting animals or want to see it legal, but this has been an unfortunate side-effect.

    Also, whats up with all the human-fighting? It seems like cage fighting has been growing in popluarity lately...
    Alot of people like aggression, pure and simple. It's always been that way...primal sh%t.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex
    You haters are completly ignoring the fact that its the DOG OWNER and not the dog. Pitbull's are a saughtafter breed by criminals, drug dealers, punk kids and owners that feel the need to have a powerfull dog to make themselves look tougher, that there is why pitbull's are given that deadly breed label. If those same people where to use German Sheppards instead it would be the German Sheppard with the negative label.

    Think of it this way, a car is a perfectly fine, but when put in the hands of a wreckless person it can be a dangerous weapon, a knife is a normal everyday item, but put in the hands of a violent criminal it will kill you, or even over the counter drugs, use them responsibly and they are good for you, over do it and they can kill you.

    Indy Dog, that pit you tried to rescue was likely abused, hence the reason it was abandoned. I'm sure with lots of work it would have been fine. There was an attack recently where i live where a loose pit mix attacked a person, nothing major, but it was running randomly through a residental area, no tags, just a big spiked collar. No owner has claimed it in over a week....yet another case of an abused, neglected pit.

    look at the past, Rotties were hated for years, Doberman's too, I think even Mastiff's as well, those days have come and gone and its not like those breeds changed over time and became less agressive or violent, its a case of the "bad owners" as a mentioned above as a trend going from one breed to another and then the media putting the spot light on each breed. In the past Pits were not even on the radar, now its their turn.


    Hate the bad owners, not the breed.
    And pits are chosen by the thugs and hip-gangster wannabes because?????
    I'm simply saying that there is too much data, stories, etc about 'pits' and other dogs to make me more cautious than w/other breeds...such as my effeminate bichon. That's common sense to me anyway.

    Smoke another!!!!

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dw
    Sweet, I can't believe this thread is still going.
    I own 2 Pitbulls right now, ones a mix. Both from the local rescue that I volunteer for.

    Pity owners on this board that believe it's OK to have your bully breed offleash, please go to pitbullforums.com and get educated on the facts of the issue. All this BS about bite stats is, well, BS.

    Unfortunelly, in this day and age w/ all the bully breed problems abound, it's just not an option to have your dog offleash. Maybe when this fad with the G's wears off it will be different.
    Ask any reputable APBT breeder, or rescue, they will all tell you the same. And I mean a real breeder not a back yard breeder selling "big and low Blue pits". You can't train, or socialize out generations of breeding for dog aggression. Which is much different than human aggression, but this has already been pointed out. APBT are horrible guard dogs, most people don't know this so I'm sure if someone tried to break into my house and saw Kira girl staring at them through the window they would be long gone. It's about the only bonus to APBT ignorance.

    "Ban the deed, not the breed"
    I partially agree with you about the leash issue... there's no doubt there are many Pits that have no business ever being off leash. This is true of many dogs of other breeds too, although it is more likely to get a dog that can never be off leash if you get a Bulldog breed.

    I researched the bloodlines of my dog, and tested the parents by observing them interact with other dogs. In fact Dorje's dad is also AKC registered as an AmStaff, and the AKC will NOT register dog-aggressive Pits. They required a 20 minuite video of the dog before allowing him to be registered.

    Also, it is not true than all APBT bloodlines are bred for dog aggression, but rather gameness, or tenacity to do whatever job is at hand. Many famous fighting dog lines and champion fighting dogs weren't/aren't dog aggressive outside of the pit. Catch dog and hunting dog breeders actully avoid breeding dogs than are overly dog aggressive because Pits often work in teams when hunting Boar or catching a Bull, so dog aggression would keep them from working properly. Dorje's lines included hunting dogs.

    I do believe that dog parks aren't a good idea for any Bulldog as they tend to get territorial after they get to know the park, and of course there will always be dogs wanting to challenge the alpha male... (why is it so many dogs are so quick to challenge a Pit?) Being on the trail is a completely different situation and seems to invite a lot less dog aggression than an enclosed dog park. I don't take Dorje to dog parks, not since he was a puppy... but he's fine on mostly-deserted backcountry trails

  194. #194
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    In today's news...hopefully it's still readable.

    I'm just saying...
    http://www.rnews.com/Story_2004.cfm?..._story_type=18

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashNY
    And pits are chosen by the thugs and hip-gangster wannabes because?????
    Dogs, bikes, cars, clothes, drinks, food, music, movies, all have their "fashion" swings that sheeple follow......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Being on the trail is a completely different situation and seems to invite a lot less dog aggression than an enclosed dog park.
    Probably nothing to mellow both dogs like running a few miles at 5+ miles per hour?
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashNY
    In today's news...hopefully it's still readable.

    I'm just saying...
    http://www.rnews.com/Story_2004.cfm?..._story_type=18
    Since the edit fx is not working for me, I just saw that there are 2 stories about pits. One re: a fatality towards a 6-y.o. boy, and another story about a city punk breeding them.

    Biased media or reality? I'm just saying....

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Dogs, bikes, cars, clothes, drinks, food, music, movies, all have their "fashion" swings that sheeple follow......
    You strike me as an F88'er...am I correct?

  199. #199
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    zzzzzz

    Still waiting for that first story about a retriever killing somebody...

  200. #200
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    Another Pit Bull Attack in the Local News ....A 3-year-old Santa Fe boy suffered serious injuries when he was bitten in the face by a male pit bull over the weekend, according to Santa Fe police.

    Pit Bulls attacking children is a way too common occurance in Northern New Mexico... Similar to a previous post, my neighbors Pit Bull attacked my dog viciously and shredded him to pieces...

    What makes me wonder... why does a tough guy need a Pit Bull to protect him from a moose anyways? They are the most docile creatures on earth unless provoked by a unleashed Pit Bull... What, couldn't push your 8-inch travel bike fast enough to get away????

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