I'm interested in a new (neutral) news source- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I'm interested in a new (neutral) news source

    Do NOT make this political!!!!!!

    I'm looking for a new news feed that isn't full of crap or BS. Just unbiased news. (I'm fully aware that "unbiased" doesn't exist, but you know what I mean.)

    I could elaborate but I'll try to keep it brief. Years ago I did a report in college about who's viewers/readers had the most accurate information about news. After much research Fox News scored the worst, their viewers had the most inaccurate information.

    Who's viewers were the most well informed? John Stewart on the Daily Show, on Comedy Central. To this day I love that statistic.

    My news feeds are full of junk lately and I need a new news source. Anyone else seek out good news sources? Where do you find them? Pro's/con's are welcome.
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  2. #2
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    I don't know if you'll be able to view it there or not but I like our ABC24hr news service. https://iview.abc.net.au/show/abc-news-24

    Obviously you won't get as much American news but it is a good balance of local and world news with a heavy bias towards US news on the world front. It is funded by the government so does not answer to any private bias. In it's charter are clauses that are meant to ensure it has no political bias here but many would acknowledge it does lean slightly towards the left side of the political argument but both sides get equal air time.

    I think the boss likes Al JAzeera when she travels but I could be wrong on that.

  3. #3
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    I like NPR.

    I've always been a newspaper addict but quit my subscription last year when they wanted to charge over $700 a year. They were owned by Gannett/USA Today, and while I thought the quality of what they slapped together each day was crap, the stories were unbiased, and you could skip over anything you wanted to.

  4. #4
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    I should probably be more informed, need #realnews.

    How about Vice news?
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  5. #5
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    AP, Reuters
    Will You Shut Up, Man?

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  6. #6
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    No such thing.
    I try to do my homework on who I'm listening to and who pays their bills. I've been listening to the news and now podcasts all day at work for about 29 years. There are a few who've read the proverbial tea leaves with somewhat consistent accuracy over the years. They're out there.

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  7. #7
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    KUSI San Diego. You can get it on live stream. Neutral, informative, and entertaining. Only news I watch. They are privately owned and operated. It's kinda like watching anchorman but real. Paul is great and love Dave's world of wonder.

    Live stream KUSI


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I'm interested in a new (neutral) news source-img_20200306_052310040.jpg  

    Last edited by azimiut; 03-06-2020 at 11:33 AM.

  8. #8
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    Al Jazeera.


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  9. #9
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    +1 on KUSI in San Diego.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Do NOT make this political!!!!!!

    Years ago I did a report in college about who's viewers/readers had the most accurate information about news. After much research Fox News scored the worst, their viewers had the most inaccurate information.

    Who's viewers were the most well informed? John Stewart on the Daily Show, on Comedy Central. To this day I love that statistic.
    .
    It is good that you are looking to improve your sources.
    To this day you are misinformed.
    So what was your grade on that report in college?


    https://www.politifact.com/article/2...aily-show-and/
    "Who are the most consistently misinformed media viewers? … Fox viewers, consistently, every poll," Stewart said in 2011.
    False.
    We found three Pew studies that superficially rank Fox viewers low on the well-informed list, but in several of the surveys, Fox isn’t the lowest, and other general-interest media outlets — such as network news shows, network morning shows and even the other cable news networks — often score similarly low. The same cannot be said for certain Fox shows, such as The O’Reilly Factorand Sean Hannity’s show, which actually score consistently well, occasionally even outpacing Stewart’s audience.

  11. #11
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    While more of a collection of sources, Real Clear collects articles from various sources, liberal, moderate and conservative so that one can get both sides. They divide it up into various tabs so that you can focus on world, politics, policy and such. Admittedly, their sports sucks.

  12. #12
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    For anybody who doesn't know, the US used to have a policy, the fairness doctrine, that required broadcasters to present balanced reports of controversial issues. There was also a policy that prevented media monopolies. Both of those are gone now. 'merica
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  13. #13
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    That's definitely a noble search but don't know if it's possible anymore. Best thing a person can do now, in my opinion, is to look at as many sources as you can stand and hope the thing closest to the truth is somewhere in-between.
    My kids in HS say that CNN 10 is playing on all of the class monitors before class starts and I think even that is a disservice, I'd prefer it to all of the main feeds weekly.
    During the early part of this coronavirus thing it seemed BBC had the most and quickest info so I've added that to my rotation.
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  14. #14
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    For my homepage I use https://www.bbc.com/news

    UK-centric but also covers world news.

  15. #15
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    BBC is a good one, I like that they cover world news because global perspective is essential in my view. I find NPR to be informative and, dare I say, unbiased. They have some very in-depth and relevant articles.

    The fact those Fox shows are mentioned above as being factual sources stretches credibility tho. But having said that, Jon Stewart can get a little 'carried away' sometimes, altho I trust most of what he says.


    Above all else tho, it is essential to maintain a critical mind and to try to be able to NOT accept as rote everything that is said or written. Try to look behind what is being said, which goes for ALL news sources.
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  16. #16
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    There are no neutral news sources. You just have to look at a broad cross section and apply your own knowledge.
    Reporters are human and even if they aren't biased, they are operating off of their knowledge and experience.
    For example, I'm told the coronavirus is hitting Iran pretty hard, but I'm not sure I believe that they have a large quantity of high quality test kits. Also, are they testing for antigens, antibodies, or gene sequences? Do they just do a test panel for known coronavirus, and, if it comes up negative, assume it's the novel coronavirus? I'd like to know that bit of info, but no one even seems inclined to ask, much less report on it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    For anybody who doesn't know, the US used to have a policy, the fairness doctrine, that required broadcasters to present balanced reports of controversial issues. There was also a policy that prevented media monopolies. Both of those are gone now. 'merica
    For the record, I was there. There was no fairness in media. CBS, NBC, ABC dominated the broadcast news. And they had a clear agenda.
    It is simply an attempt to regulate Free Speech.
    Government Regulation of speech.
    There are infinitely more outlets for communication now than there were in 1949 when the “Fairness Doctrine” was adopted. No one cared about it going away until the rise of talk radio.
    Guess which party introduced legislation to reinstate it?

    It all comes down to maintaining a healthy capacity for critical thought. And many times that goes well beyond what is offered.

    Just this past week Christiana Amanpour had a piece on the coronavirus in which her guest complimented the effort of Mike Pence as governor.
    When I went to her website the next day that comment was scrubbed from the video. Didn’t see that coming.

    You gotta question everything you hear, as well as everything you say.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    For anybody who doesn't know, the US used to have a policy, the fairness doctrine, that required broadcasters to present balanced reports of controversial issues.
    "The doctrine had two parts: it required broadcasters (1) to cover vital controversial issues in the community and (2) to provide a reasonable opportunity for the presentation of contrasting viewpoints. In time, additional rules were added. The so-called personal attack rule required broadcasters to allow opportunity for rebuttal to personal attacks made during the discussion of controversial issues. The "political editorializing" rule held that broadcasters who endorsed a candidate for political office had to give the candidate's opponent a reasonable opportunity to respond."

    Imagine!

    I can just hear it now: Wolf Blitzer and Sean Hannity doing nothing but chanting "Collusion!" and "Fake News!" back and forth, 24-7, forever.
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  19. #19
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    Neutral? Definitely not the popular/mainstream stuff shared on social media that becomes hot/trending, like anything made into memes or anything with clickbait titles.

    Hard to get past all the opinion based stuff, and all the stuff focused on people instead of ideas, including the ideas behind events. I suppose certain people are attracted to drama and unwittingly throw themselves into it.

    I personally skip the current events stuff and pick up on it some time later when more is known, preferring research-heavy documentary style stuff. I tolerate some opinion/belief based stuff, like interviews, if it's used for mythbusting. Chilled out to some PBS Frontline yesterday. Went through a Kurzgesagt playlist earlier this week. Got the lowdown on how to combat risk of COVID-19 before that; been changing my habits regarding washing hands and learning about how long contamination lasts. Basically looking for useful info that helps me act and improve, rather than all the noise that tries to bury/cover-up and dig up dirt on people/businesses--the shit show that I refer to as reputation management, self-image marketing, or whatever.

    Out of curiosity, to try and be more open minded, I tried watching some news that filled in unknown gaps, like the Empire Files, but it seemingly got stalled (some call it censoring). I remember seeing some monthly show reel, which I believe was trying to show the effects of climate change around the world from public-submitted videos. Found it on youtube: SOTT Earth Changes. Hard to find anything like this, as I kept getting suggestions to "idiots unite" styled stuff, that reeked of conspiracy theories, to create distrust and discord. I suppose that makes me less open, when I'm limiting what sources I get info from.

    I think even NPR sometimes has an agenda, but like someone posted earlier, things will be biased as long as people are involved. I interpret the info in my own way. It's like some filter, so if you get me to give a summary of some info source you also went through for verification, you might find my version to be different from yours. You basically learn more about me, than you do about the news in that case. I tried Al Jazeera, but never went back; tried just now and it looks different and improved. BBC I visit repeatedly, and Vice I occasionally get intrigued by (e.g. Greek island garbage crisis).
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

  20. #20
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    I find "The Onion" is pretty dialed. "Hardtimes" usually nails it too.

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  21. #21
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    snopes.com ?

  22. #22
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    Consider the source.

  23. #23
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    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Didn't know I had a sense of humor until I read that site. Maybe it's just that funny. Was laughing so hard by the time I started partway through the 3rd article I openedthat I had to come back to thank you for the link.
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

  25. #25
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    ^Lol, that is pretty good.
    I'd make a great satirical reporter. Where to send my resume...

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    I never saw that before. Thanks!
    Just call me Ray

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    +1 on KUSI in San Diego.
    I like 'em a lot more now that Crazy Old John the climate change denier, is gone from the weather slot.
    Just call me Ray

  28. #28
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    Weekly World News: home of the Garth Brooks Juice Diet and known for articles like "Pregnant Man Gives Birth". Ma Mckenzie states it as fact.


    I think in order to be informed, one must pursue multiple sources of knowledge. I like NPR, but I can admit they are liberal leaning. One form of news that I tend to ignore is presented with anger, while I take more in when comedy is used. I'll admit I'm biased, but I do my best to listen to what is presented, to think about it logically and how the narrative fits into the information from other news sources. I don't think there's a perfectly neutral source... even science articles are argued from a point of view of the interpretation of the data. Many disagreements come about due to how the data is interpreted if the methods are appropriate and thus how it is presented.

    So, yeah, read and listen to everything... except Fox
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  29. #29
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    As a guy who's been listening to NPR for over 40 years across many city affiliates it's turned into the same corporate propaganda as any other outlet. Just look at their own 9 pages worth of corporate sponsorship. The difference is it's packaged in a format to appeal to the educated class. With that I still enjoy some of their programming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    So, yeah, read and listen to everything... except Fox
    LOL! What do you read to help balance out all the blatant MSNBC/CNN/etc bias? Stormfront?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    I never saw that before. Thanks!
    "Swamp badger!"
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    "Swamp badger!"
    Thought that particularly hilarious myself

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    For the record, I was there. There was no fairness in media. CBS, NBC, ABC dominated the broadcast news.
    There's always been a lot more media than just the three major television networks.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    I like 'em a lot more now that Crazy Old John the climate change denier, is gone from the weather slot.
    but he co founded the weather channel.....
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    LOL! What do you read to help balance out all the blatant MSNBC/CNN/etc bias? Stormfront?
    It was intended as a bit of a joke considering OneSpeed's opening post. As I admitted, I listen to NPR more than any other single source as I listen at work at a University.

    Also, no Stormfront ever. That would get me either fired or death by training courses from the Office of Equity and Diversity.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    It was intended as a bit of a joke considering OneSpeed's opening post. As I admitted, I listen to NPR more than any other single source as I listen at work at a University.

    Also, no Stormfront ever. That would get me either fired or death by training courses from the Office of Equity and Diversity.
    I would imagine! They probably rank it somewhere about the same as Breitbart.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    There's always been a lot more media than just the three major television networks.
    What is your point?
    The Fairness Doctrine only applied to Broadcast Media.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    but he co founded the weather channel.....
    His college major was something like Media Development. He did found the Weather Channel, but then he somehow got tossed out of his own creation.
    Just call me Ray

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    What is your point?
    The Fairness Doctrine only applied to Broadcast Media.
    Ever hear of radio?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Ever hear of radio?
    Again, at that time, during the fairness doctrine, ABC, CBS, and NBC dominated broadcast news. Yes, even in radio.
    And by the time the fairness doctrine was abandoned AM radio was all but dead.
    Talk radio revived AM radio to the point Politicians started taking notice.

    Stop digging that hole you’re in.....

  42. #42
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    My point was, we used to at least attempt to have what *OneSpeed* is looking for. Once that was dropped, they didn't even have to try to hide their agendas, they could easily only tell one side of the story with zero concerns for any repercussions. As you said, the rise of talk radio.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  43. #43
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    Telling one side is what free speech is all about.
    That is why it is necessary.
    When the OP laid out his dichotomy of “uninformed Fox viewers vs the well informed of the opposing viewpoint”, inaccurate as he was, he tipped his hand.

    The fairness doctrine is a political tool to control information. Simple as that.

    The Fairness Doctrine was a policy of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC or Commission) that required broadcast licensees to cover issues of public importance and to do so in a fair manner. Issues of public importance were not limited to political campaigns. Nuclear plant construction, workers’ rights, and other issues of focus for a particular community could gain the status of an issue that broadcasters were required to cover. Therefore, the Fairness Doctrine was distinct from the so-called “equal time” rule, which requires broadcasters to grant equal time to qualified candidates for public office, because the Fairness Doctrine applied to a much broader range of topics.In 1987, after a period of study, the FCC repealed the Fairness Doctrine. The FCC found that the doctrine likely violated the free speech rights of broadcasters, led to less speech about issues of public importance over broadcast airwaves, and was no longer required because of the increase in competition among mass media. The repeal of the doctrine did not end the debate among lawmakers, scholars, and others about its constitutionality and impact on the availability of diverse information to the public.
    The debate in Congress regarding whether to reinstate the doctrine continues today. Recently, Chairman Upton of the House Subcommittee on Communications and Technology sent a letter to FCC Chairman Genachowski urging the Commission to remove the regulations relating to the Fairness Doctrine from the Code of Federal Regulations. Chairman Genachowski responded by reasserting his lack of support for the Fairness Doctrine and agreeing to begin the process of repealing the regulations.
    Any attempt to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine likely would be met with a constitutional challenge. Those opposing the doctrine would argue that it violates their First Amendment rights. In 1969, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Fairness Doctrine, but applied a lower standard of scrutiny to the First Amendment rights of broadcasters than it applies to other media. Since that decision, the Supreme Court’s reasoning for applying a lower constitutional standard to broadcasters’ speech has been questioned. Furthermore, when repealing the doctrine, the FCC found that, as the law stood in 1987, the Fairness Doctrine violated the First Amendment even when applying the lower standard of scrutiny to the doctrine. No reviewing court has examined the validity of the agency’s findings on the constitutional issue. Therefore, whether a newly instituted Fairness Doctrine would survive constitutional scrutiny remains an open Case
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40009.pdf

  44. #44
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    Once that was dropped, they didn't even have to try to hide their agendas, they could easily only tell one side of the story with zero concerns for any repercussions. As you said, the rise of talk radio.
    You make an excellent, if unintentional point.
    One of the primary benefits of Free Speech is to have each side fully and freely present their agendas based upon their supporting views.
    Not try to conceal and misrepresent intent due to some threat of policy.

    Surely by now the political affiliation of the vast majority of broadcast media both in news as well as entertainment is well documented and widely know to the public. But they want to silence the opposition under the misnomer of “fairness”. It’s ridiculous to the point of being laughable.
    The record is clear on all of this.

  45. #45
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    That study consisted of asking the various groups surveyed if they were simply aware of events and issues, and the Fox group was the least aware of things like, where a country is on the globe, borders, current events in general. That a comedy show audience was the most aware of current events, political or not, says something about the average Fox viewer. It didn't ask about their opinions, just the facts, Ma'm.

    You are digging your own hole. I'm very happy for you.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    That study consisted of asking the various groups surveyed if they were simply aware of events and issues, and the Fox group was the least aware of things like, where a country is on the globe, borders, current events in general. That a comedy show audience was the most aware of current events, political or not, says something about the average Fox viewer. I didn't ask about their opinions, just the facts, Ma'm.

    You are digging your own hole. I'm very happy for you.
    Uh no, it wasn’t a study.
    It was a reference to multiple studies (polls) misrepresented by Stewart in 2011
    When he was called on it he admitted he was wrong.
    You obviously did not read and comprehend what I posted.

    Try again.
    EDITOR'S NOTE: On the June 21, 2011, edition of The Daily Show, Jon Stewart accepted our False verdict and apologized, saying, "I defer to (PolitiFact's) judgment and apologize for my mistake. To not do so would be irresponsible."

    Here:Read the Whole thing this time. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...news-are-most/

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    Newsy, politifact, and for longer detailed reporting on events, Frontline is amazing.

    Cheddar seems pretty good, and occasionally I hit up the economist.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Telling one side is what free speech is all about.
    I'm sure Hitler, etc would all agree with you. At least as it pertains to their side. And yes, in the US the other side is free to do their best to reach those only listening to one side, just doesn't seem like a lot of people are open to hearing both sides now-a-days. Maybe they all need to be required to say/show a big disclaimer along the lines of "This is the viewpoint of this station. You are encouraged to seek out other sources for the opposing view to understand all sides of the issue." Not that that would do much good, but maybe at least it would get people realizing they are only hearing one side.

    It does get into sticky ground. Should we allow hate speech as free speech? Do we stick to the Constitution even when it is counter to what's best for the nation?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    Delegitimizing news sources is a reliable and proven tactic used by autocrats and dictators throughout the world. "Fake news!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Delegitimizing news sources is a reliable and proven tactic used by autocrats and dictators throughout the world. "Fake news!"
    Fox News?
    Hannity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Fox News?
    Hannity?

    No, I said news sources, not propaganda platforms.
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    I'm sure Hitler, etc would all agree with you. At least as it pertains to their side.
    LMAO.
    Point 1.
    Hitler didn’t advocate free speech.

    Point 2.
    “At least as it pertains to their side” is oxymoronic.

    The theory is that both sides tell their side. Not that one side tells/represents both views. Again, Equal Time is not the same as the fairness doctrine and was not part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    No, I said news sources, not propaganda platforms.
    Well then there you have it from the arbiter of News and Propaganda.
    You just made my case.

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    It does get into sticky ground. Should we allow hate speech as free speech? Do we stick to the Constitution even when it is counter to what's best for the nation?
    This is a Classic False Dichotomy Fallacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    LMAO.
    Point 1.
    Hitler didn’t advocate free speech.

    Point 2.
    “At least as it pertains to their side” is oxymoronic.

    The theory is that both sides tell their side. Not that one side tells/represents both views. Again, Equal Time is not the same as the fairness doctrine and was not part of it.
    <sigh> Ok, I'll spell it our for you. Hitler rose to power because the fascist were allowed "free speech" to spread their propaganda (in the US, they still are, in Europe, they aren't). Once in control, they no longer allowed free speech. The ones that stop free speech do so by first taking advantage of free speech. Once in power, they know free speech may eventually catch up with them as they do not want opposing viewpoints to be heard.

    And yes, I am fully aware that Equal Time was not part of the fairness doctrine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    <sigh> Ok, I'll spell it our for you. Hitler rose to power because the fascist were allowed "free speech" to spread their propaganda (in the US, they still are, in Europe, they aren't). Once in control, they no longer allowed free speech. The ones that stop free speech do so by first taking advantage of free speech. Once in power, they know free speech may eventually catch up with them as they do not want opposing viewpoints to be heard.p

    And yes, I am fully aware that Equal Time was not part of the fairness doctrine.
    Then how is your assertion a rebuttal to my post?
    Are you suggesting that Hitler should have been silenced?
    How about Schumer stating that if two Supreme Court Justices ruled against him “they wouldn’t know what hit them.”

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    All this aside onespeed, this site could help you make a choice:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

    Seems pretty on the money to me...

    NPR gets a very high factual rating, MSNBC & CNN slightly less so, and Fox News even less still.
    My view is that if a news source, no matter their political bias, relies on dubious, ill-sourced or researched, or even downright incorrect facts, they do not merit consideration as a news source. They then enter the realm of fantasy and propaganda.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    No, I said news sources, not propaganda platforms.
    Dude you got it! Hannity can't believe half the stuff he says. People on that network claim claim such wild ass things as the metric system is a communist and anti American plot. That's just dumb fear mongering.

    However, if someone were choosing between Fox and Breitbart I'd probably tell them to stick with Fox because at least they're not openly fascist.
    dang

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    The doctrine’s legitimacy was unanimously affirmed by the Supreme Court in its 1969 “Red Lion” decision, which determined, “It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.” The First Amendment’s purpose, the Court argued, was to preserve a vibrant marketplace of ideas rather than defend broadcasters’ monopolization of the nation’s discourse.
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    My view is that if a news source, no matter their political bias, relies on dubious, ill-sourced or researched, or even downright incorrect facts, they do not merit consideration as a news source.
    Dan Rather of CBS.
    Thomas Frank, Eric Lichtblau, and Lex Harris of CNN.
    Jayson Blair of the New York Times.

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    Seeds will only germinate if planted in fertile soil. The rise of Hitler and the Third Reich was a sign of the times, and the majority of the German population got behind him because they had suffered so greatly under the austerity of the inter war years. These are not secrets. The population were keen to embrace whatever Hitler brought, because he promised and delivered employment, a sense of National Pride after the humiliation of WWI, and the seductive thought that Germany would be Great again was a sweet pill to swallow. They could turn a blind eye to the horrors being perpetrated under their noses because they were getting fatter. That too is no secret.
    Hitler's rise had little to do with free speech, and much to do with propaganda, the clever use of such, and playing on giving enough to those that got behind his regime to make them malleable. Once he was in power, the regime sat on any news sources that disagreed with them, and voila, you have a dictatorship that were able to do pretty much all they wanted. These are truths also.
    There are many parallels being played out even today all over the world. Some not so far from home. The fertile soil is always the same however, if the general population is disadvantaged or depressed economically, they are often more that willing to go along with what would seem to be abhorrent practices at any other time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    The doctrine’s legitimacy was unanimously affirmed by the Supreme Court in its 1969 “Red Lion” decision, which determined, “It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.” The First Amendment’s purpose, the Court argued, was to preserve a vibrant marketplace of ideas rather than defend broadcasters’ monopolization of the nation’s discourse.
    Yes, I already addressed that. Your post is however incomplete in that is does not address the subsequent decisions and background to the rulings.
    Revisit the link at the bottom of post #43

    Here is the part you edited out.....
    Because of the scarcity of radio frequencies, the Government is permitted to put restraints on
    licensees in favor of others whose views should be expressed on this unique medium. But the
    people as a whole retain their interest in free speech by radio and their collective right to
    have the medium function consistently with the ends and purposes of the First Amendment.
    It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.”

    The link provided in post #43 gives extensive background well beyond even this on the question of court rulings and the Constitutionality issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Seeds will only germinate if planted in fertile soil. The rise of Hitler and the Third Reich was a sign of the times, and the majority of the German population got behind him because they had suffered so greatly under the austerity of the inter war years. These are not secrets. The population were keen to embrace whatever Hitler brought, because he promised and delivered employment, a sense of National Pride after the humiliation of WWI, and the seductive thought that Germany would be Great again was a sweet pill to swallow. They could turn a blind eye to the horrors being perpetrated under their noses because they were getting fatter. That too is no secret.
    Hitler's rise had little to do with free speech, and much to do with propaganda, the clever use of such, and playing on giving enough to those that got behind his regime to make them malleable. Once he was in power, the regime sat on any news sources that disagreed with them, and voila, you have a dictatorship that were able to do pretty much all they wanted. These are truths also.
    There are many parallels being played out even today all over the world. Some not so far from home. The fertile soil is always the same however, if the general population is disadvantaged or depressed economically, they are often more that willing to go along with what would seem to be abhorrent practices at any other time.
    Excellent observations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Dan Rather of CBS.
    Thomas Frank, Eric Lichtblau, and Lex Harris of CNN.
    Jayson Blair of the New York Times.
    The examples you cite here either resigned or were forced to resign. In all these cases, the parent company at least made an effort to retain some sort of integrity of news gathering once the integrity of the stories in question was challenged and found wanting. Can the same be said of more right leaning sources I wonder? I do not wish to play devil's advocate here, but I do not see any measure of equivalence myself. Shepard Smith? Nope... any others?
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    I pay attention to the crackhead street walkers talking to themselves and yelling at people that aren't there. They know shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude you got it! Hannity can't believe half the stuff he says. .
    Do you also consider people like Rachel Maddow, Joy Behar and Whoopie Goldberg to be reporters? Newsflash - they aren't.
    Hannity also is not a news reporter, he's an entertainer in that same vein, and makes that distinction clear regularly.

    Do people truly not recognize this?
    That's seriously messed up.
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    threads like this prove 2 things.
    1- the left thinks the right are uneducated morons who have to be told what to think.
    2- the right thinks the left are indoctrinated zombies who have to be told what to think.

    nobody is changing anybody's mind here. i know. my dog told me.

    just spouting opinions...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Seeds will only germinate if planted in fertile soil. The rise of Hitler and the Third Reich was a sign of the times, and the majority of the German population got behind him because they had suffered so greatly under the austerity of the inter war years. These are not secrets. The population were keen to embrace whatever Hitler brought, because he promised and delivered employment, a sense of National Pride after the humiliation of WWI, and the seductive thought that Germany would be Great again was a sweet pill to swallow. They could turn a blind eye to the horrors being perpetrated under their noses because they were getting fatter. That too is no secret.
    Hitler's rise had little to do with free speech, and much to do with propaganda, the clever use of such, and playing on giving enough to those that got behind his regime to make them malleable. Once he was in power, the regime sat on any news sources that disagreed with them, and voila, you have a dictatorship that were able to do pretty much all they wanted. These are truths also.
    There are many parallels being played out even today all over the world. Some not so far from home. The fertile soil is always the same however, if the general population is disadvantaged or depressed economically, they are often more that willing to go along with what would seem to be abhorrent practices at any other time.
    Wow, thanks for that! It's all making sense now. The Left, in this country, is using the same exact same tactics Hitler used to take control. The parallels astounding! Thanks again for pointing this out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    My view is that if a news source, no matter their political bias, relies on dubious, ill-sourced or researched, or even downright incorrect facts, they do not merit consideration as a news source. They then enter the realm of fantasy and propaganda.
    From your source:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/

    "These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy."

    CNN, Newsweek and MSNBC all made this list.

    Also, obviously:

    Black Lives Matter
    Huffington Post
    Daily Beast
    Change.org
    Drudge
    Deadspin
    Institute for Policy Studies
    Media Matters
    Rolling Stone
    Slate

    I find it amusing (and wildly hypocritical) that the vast majority of people who whine about Fox News' bias are apparently completely oblivious to their and their news sources own biases.

    Lot of mofos need to take a long hard look in the mirror I'd say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    threads like this prove 2 things.
    1- the left thinks the right are uneducated morons who have to be told what to think.
    2- the right thinks the left are indoctrinated zombies who have to be told what to think.
    So true... Although there doesn't seem to be a lot of balance on this forum. There are a number of older elite posters here that love to enter into the "I'm more virtuous then you" echo chamber. They say "Let's not make this political" but can't control themselves, turn right around and make it political. Even the OP did this from the start, and in his small world, probably doesn't even recognize it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    <sigh> Ok, I'll spell it our for you. Hitler rose to power because the fascist were allowed "free speech" to spread their propaganda (in the US, they still are, in Europe, they aren't). Once in control, they no longer allowed free speech. The ones that stop free speech do so by first taking advantage of free speech. Once in power, they know free speech may eventually catch up with them as they do not want opposing viewpoints to be heard.
    I agree. Amazing how many little fascists are concentrated on college campuses these days, isn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Should we allow hate speech as free speech?
    I'm not sure if you understand what 'free speech' means.
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    I don’t get Fox News. No cable, and I don’t even watch the local affiliate.
    Never saw an episode of Hannity or O’Reilly.
    The only national news I watch on TV is NBC about twice a week, used to watch MacNeil Lehrer but when Gwen Ifill took over things lurched left and her disdain at any interview with anyone not a democrat was apparent.
    Watch BBC and Amanpour about twice a week.
    I have seen Jon Stewart a few times and actually liked him, even when disagreeing with him. But as has been pointed out, he also is not a journalist.
    I generally get the bulk of my news through Yahoo headlines as a lead and then review other various sources of the same headline.

    I grew up watching Cronkite, but Dan Rather was always full of himself, more concerned with his shtick than his accuracy. Brokaw was a Rather Clone of lesser degree with marbles in his mouth. I don’t mind getting one side as long as it is accurate, but when the spin distorts the Truth it gets old quick.

    The cases of journalist resignations I pointed to simply met the criteria put forward for dismissal of a serious source. It looks like men behaving badly toward women is the equalizer these days.

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    Seeds will only germinate if planted in fertile soil.
    One more thing Rocker, seeds do not require planting in fertile soil to germinate.
    Critical thought donchaknow

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I don’t get Fox News. No cable, and I don’t even watch the local affiliate.
    Never saw an episode of Hannity or O’Reilly.
    The only national news I watch on TV is NBC about twice a week, used to watch MacNeil Lehrer but when Gwen Ifill took over things lurched left and her disdain at any interview with anyone not a democrat was apparent.
    Watch BBC and Amanpour about twice a week.
    I have seen Jon Stewart a few times and actually liked him, even when disagreeing with him. But as has been pointed out, he also is not a journalist.
    I generally get the bulk of my news through Yahoo headlines as a lead and then review other various sources of the same headline.

    I grew up watching Cronkite, but Dan Rather was always full of himself, more concerned with his shtick than his accuracy. Brokaw was a Rather Clone of lesser degree with marbles in his mouth. I don’t mind getting one side as long as it is accurate, but when the spin distorts the Truth it gets old quick.

    The cases of journalist resignations I pointed to simply met the criteria put forward for dismissal of a serious source. It looks like men behaving badly toward women is the equalizer these days.
    I agree with pretty much all of this... When I do watch MSNBC for instance, I cringe when I see them doing the same things I see more right leaning sources doing: distorting truth to suit narratives being the main one. I always keep an open mind when watching or reading any news source, and often do my best to check things that I feel may not be entirely truthful, whatever the source.
    The BBC used to be a lot better, but have got tied up in in all kinds of agendas that they are not equipped to cope with now. Don't forget, the vast majority of their revenue comes from the UK population having by law to pay for a TV Licence, even if they do not watch or listen to the BBC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    Wow, thanks for that! It's all making sense now. The Left, in this country, is using the same exact same tactics Hitler used to take control. The parallels astounding! Thanks again for pointing this out.
    I was going to reply here, but it ain't worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    One more thing Rocker, seeds do not require planting in fertile soil to germinate.
    Critical thought donchaknow
    A valid metaphor tho OZ... you know exactly what I mean here...
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    Too true, huh? I get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    From your source:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/

    "These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy."

    CNN, Newsweek and MSNBC all made this list.

    Also, obviously:

    Black Lives Matter
    Huffington Post
    Daily Beast
    Change.org
    Drudge
    Deadspin
    Institute for Policy Studies
    Media Matters
    Rolling Stone
    Slate

    I find it amusing (and wildly hypocritical) that the vast majority of people who whine about Fox News' bias are apparently completely oblivious to their and their news sources own biases.

    Lot of mofos need to take a long hard look in the mirror I'd say.
    Works both ways mofo.
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    Everything costs money and no one works for free.
    That’s a pretty pervasive thing and is can corrupt.
    It’s a hardwired part of Human Nature to sell and curry favor. Part of the survival instinct.
    Gotta manage it with vigilance and discernment without coercion if at all possible.

    Just pushing for accuracy in germination.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    Too true, huh? I get it.
    Think a little deeper about the differences...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Works both ways mofo.
    Absolutely!

    That's what I'm trying to say.
    I listen to everything and do my best to evaluate case by case and weigh different perspectives, keeping in mind the biases of those sharing the information.

    It sounds like many here do not; they only listen to one side and pretend that their side isn't guilty of any bias while the other is nothing but. Incredibly childish and myopic.

    It's truly amazing to see people bang on Fox/Breitbart while giving CNN/MSNBC/etc/etc/etc a pass. Are people really that clueless?
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    Yea, I recall left sources like Vox acting like an echo chamber, posting some headline that fit their bias without verifying the content. Did they get paid to publish that?

    Definitely not immune to the same stuff the right's susceptible to, like all the stuff originating from the Heartland Institute, or other biased special interest groups.
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    Again it is Human nature to gather around like minded people......
    But it can be a bit stunting as well.
    Funny thing about Life is it requires Stability and Movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Again it is Human nature to gather around like minded people......
    But it can be a bit stunting as well.
    Funny thing about Life is it requires Stability and Movement.
    Sounds a lot like Aristotle's wisdom on what's happiness, the stability and movement thing.
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I agree. Amazing how many little fascists are concentrated on college campuses these days, isn't it?
    Are you referring to the people shouting “Jews will not replace us” while carrying tiki torches around UVA?


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    Courtesy of MSNBC....Whilst on a rant against Bloomberg wealth, Bryan Williams and other prominent journalists put forth some incredible claims.....The agenda clouds their ability to think clearly. Surely it must be that, because these adults can’t be this ignorant.

    The false inflation of Bloomberg's wealth started when a journalist incorrectly tweeted that he could've used his $500 million in 2020 ad spending and "given each American $1 million and still have money left over." Then, without anyone breaking out a calculator, the tweet ended up on MSNBC's 11th Hour with Brian Williams, with both the host and The New York Times' Mara Gay going along with it.

    "Somebody tweeted recently ... with the money he spent he could've given every American a million dollars," Gay said of Bloomberg on the show. "When I saw this on social media tonight, it kind of all became clear," Williams said before reading the false tweet out loud. "Don't tell us if you're ahead of us on the math here," Williams continued. Someone should've. "It's true, it's disturbing," Gay continued.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/brian-wil...161542051.html

    Here we have two prominent mainstream “Journalists” sourcing a third journalist on social media to spread blatantly ignorant anti-capitalist rhetoric.
    How in God’s name do three people get college degrees and not know the simple arithmetic of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Are you referring to the people shouting “Jews will not replace us” while carrying tiki torches around UVA?
    That's what jumps to the top of your list of examples of speech being stifled on college campuses these days? Uh...okay...
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    Fascists?
    Perhaps the CNN settlement of the $250 Million MAGA lawsuit gives some context as to who the fascists really are.

    From CBS News:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9xOPTpk4o

  94. #94
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    Alright, that is enough. We are WAY off topic.

    Knock it off or start your own thread. All offending posts are being reported.
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    Pro's/con's are welcome.
    Alright, that is enough. We are WAY off topic.

    Knock it off or start your own thread. All offending posts are being reported.
    No we are not off topic.
    You politicized this from the beginning in your Very First Post.
    Report all you like.
    Perfect example of your irritation at a free open discourse in a thread you started.
    Don’t defend your position when it is challenged.
    Try to censor anyone who offers a different opinion.
    Speaks Volumes.
    You set the tone with your preemptive intelligence assessment of anyone holding a different view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Are you referring to the people shouting “Jews will not replace us” while carrying tiki torches around UVA?


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    No. Probably these such things. But you’re smart enough to know this.


    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/r...ervative-group


    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/c...lege-campuses/


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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    without anyone breaking out a calculator
    The fact that an adult would actually need a calculator to figure this out is disenheartening.
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    MSNBC is unreliable.
    They have a hard time calculating zeros......

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Do you also consider people like Rachel Maddow, Joy Behar and Whoopie Goldberg to be reporters? Newsflash - they aren't.
    Hannity also is not a news reporter, he's an entertainer in that same vein, and makes that distinction clear regularly.

    Do people truly not recognize this?
    That's seriously messed up.
    Neither of the people you listed are reporters and neither are excused from promoting convenient falsehoods.
    dang

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    One more thing Rocker, seeds do not require planting in fertile soil to germinate.
    Critical thought donchaknow
    Well not all seeds require fertile soil, but some do. A lot of bean family plants will germinate on sterile sand or filter paper. Other species will only geminate on mineral soil within a certain range of pH. As someone who does some see ecology research, I feel qualified to shit on both statements here.
    dang

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    Everybody will crap on me for this, but I just read the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. Both are pretty good about fact checking (and publish corrections when they make a mistake). Both have editorial biases - one left, one right - but neither seem to make up facts. Add the two together and you get pretty decent coverage.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I was going to reply here, but it ain't worth it.
    Ultimate logic, if you don't like someone or their philosophy, compare them to Hitler. Figure it out!
    dang

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Ultimate logic, if you don't like someone or their philosophy, compare them to Hitler. Figure it out!
    See post #48

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Ultimate logic, if you don't like someone or their philosophy, compare them to Hitler. Figure it out!
    I'm pretty sure I didn't compare anyone to Hitler here. Last time I looked, no one has quite gone that far yet, altho there are plenty of people who would jump up to kiss his feet if he were reborn. That is disheartening.
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  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I'm pretty sure I didn't compare anyone to Hitler here. Last time I looked, no one has quite gone that far yet, altho there are plenty of people who would jump up to kiss his feet if he were reborn. That is disheartening.
    The person you quoted did. I was more or less in agreement with you.
    dang

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanallan View Post
    No. Probably these such things. But you’re smart enough to know this.


    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/r...ervative-group


    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/c...lege-campuses/


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    The funny thing is that the author of the first piece admits the problem at the end:

    It’s not a problem for conservative speakers in general, such as the author of the WE article. It’s a problem when you’re an asshole like Anne Coulter. They charge certain groups more money because, gasp, someone runs a risk analysis and determines the folks that show up for those events might necessitate greater security precautions. Unlike, Justice Sotomayor.


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    I'm interested in a new (neutral) news source

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    That's what jumps to the top of your list of examples of speech being stifled on college campuses these days? Uh...okay...
    No. It was an example of a group of people, including actual fascists, who were allowed their right to free speech on a college campus. Then, one of those actual fascists killed a counter protestor by running her and several other people over with a car.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    The person you quoted did. I was more or less in agreement with you.
    I didn't actually quote anyone! Several other worthies were tossing Hitlerisms back and forth, and I just commented in general. No worries tho... anyone who more or less agrees with me is OK
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayold View Post
    New York Times are pretty good about fact checking
    No disrespect but that's laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No disrespect but that's laughable.

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    Agree. At one time the NYT was the flagship of journalism, the respected standard-bearer. Those days are gone, it is now a yellow tabloid. Really sad.
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    Well, I was going to respond to a few people here but after getting caught up on all the posts, doesn't seem worthwhile. CNN used to be my main go to for news but I realized a good while ago that they had an agenda besides accurately reporting the news and got sick of it. I think you really have to take it topic by topic and do a lot of research to find multiple viewpoints. But I will say, when the presenter starts up with fear tactics, I start to discount them very quickly.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    I did a kitchen/great room repaint for one of my closest clients about 5yrs ago, while the husband was running their family bank, the wife was there while I was working. We were really good friends and could talk all day long, almost always about positive stuff, to a point where she was told not to talk to me because it was slowing my progress on the job. So instead of conversing with me she left the TV on, and IIRC it was either CNN or NBC. After listening about all the bad things that were happening in the world, pretty much all day long, I would leave there feeling very distressed. She was paranoid from it, wouldn't drive the freeway, would insist I lock the front door every time I left even if it was just out to the truck for a few moments. She passed away in her sleep a few years later on Christmas eve, and I think part of the reason was her not wanting to live in this world anymore. I stopped tuning in to any news right after I finished that job.
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    The Economist is expensive but excellent IMO.
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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I don’t get Fox News. No cable, and I don’t even watch the local affiliate.
    Never saw an episode of Hannity or O’Reilly.
    The only national news I watch on TV is NBC about twice a week, used to watch MacNeil Lehrer but when Gwen Ifill took over things lurched left and her disdain at any interview with anyone not a democrat was apparent.
    Watch BBC and Amanpour about twice a week.
    I have seen Jon Stewart a few times and actually liked him, even when disagreeing with him. But as has been pointed out, he also is not a journalist.
    I generally get the bulk of my news through Yahoo headlines as a lead and then review other various sources of the same headline.

    I grew up watching Cronkite, but Dan Rather was always full of himself, more concerned with his shtick than his accuracy. Brokaw was a Rather Clone of lesser degree with marbles in his mouth. I don’t mind getting one side as long as it is accurate, but when the spin distorts the Truth it gets old quick.

    The cases of journalist resignations I pointed to simply met the criteria put forward for dismissal of a serious source. It looks like men behaving badly toward women is the equalizer these days.
    That's something else I don't understand...I didn't know (or care ) about Johnny Carson's or even Jay Leno's political affiliation, they equally lightly-joked about both sides, were they smart enough to know it's probably not in your best interest to piss off, essentially, half of your audience? Nowadays you know within the first minute of a monologue which way they lean. I'm old school in the way that politics and religion should be personal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Well not all seeds require fertile soil, but some do. A lot of bean family plants will germinate on sterile sand or filter paper. Other species will only geminate on mineral soil within a certain range of pH. As someone who does some see ecology research, I feel qualified to shit on both statements here.
    What seeds require fertile soil to germinate?

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    That's something else I don't understand...I didn't know (or care ) about Johnny Carson's or even Jay Leno's political affiliation, they equally lightly-joked about both sides, were they smart enough to know it's probably not in your best interest to piss off, essentially, half of your audience? Nowadays you know within the first minute of a monologue which way they lean. I'm old school in the way that politics and religion should be personal.
    Confirmation bias requirements of an insecure society. People genuinely believe their positions are unassailable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The funny thing is that the author of the first piece admits the problem at the end:

    It’s not a problem for conservative speakers in general, such as the author of the WE article. It’s a problem when you’re an asshole like Anne Coulter. They charge certain groups more money because, gasp, someone runs a risk analysis and determines the folks that show up for those events might necessitate greater security precautions. Unlike, Justice Sotomayor.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The fact that you can’t see the irony in that statement is disturbing given the talk you espouse about fascism.

    Who gets to decide who and for what reason we silence someone.

    You, because you hold the moral high ground and get to decide who’s an asshole and should be denied the right to express their ideas to like minded individuals without fear of being assaulted.

    That’s not the way it’s supposed to work in this country.




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    I'm interested in a new (neutral) news source

    Quote Originally Posted by seanallan View Post
    The fact that you can’t see the irony in that statement is disturbing given the talk you espouse about fascism.

    Who gets to decide who and for what reason we silence someone.

    You, because you hold the moral high ground and get to decide who’s an asshole and should be denied the right to express their ideas to like minded individuals without fear of being assaulted.

    That’s not the way it’s supposed to work in this country.




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    Yes, it would be nice if conservative speakers didn’t attract groups like the Proud Boys, whose only interest is in doing violence upon people.

    It would be great if people could conduct protests and counter protests in peace without getting battered or killed by actual, American fascists.

    I have no problem with people of a different political persuasion holding events. But, as their own beliefs would suggest, they should be solely responsible for paying security at an event they wish to put together. “Party of personal responsibility”, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and all that. Why should the community at large, or an academic institution, pay for security at their event? No other group demands that, so why should a certain political persuasion receive undue financial relief?


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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Delegitimizing news sources is a reliable and proven tactic used by autocrats and dictators throughout the world. "Fake news!"
    Providing "fake news" is also a proven tactic used through out history. No one can deny the impact of the propaganda machines of Germany or the USSR on their subjects. Sadly, too much of the "news" being pushed to the forefront with over the last few years has proven to be untrue. The news world has earned their lack of credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Providing "fake news" is also a proven tactic used through out history. No one can deny the impact of the propaganda machines of Germany or the USSR on their subjects. Sadly, too much of the "news" being pushed to the forefront with over the last few years has proven to be untrue. The news world has earned their lack of credibility.

    No doubt, but when one picks and chooses which news is "fake" and which isn't according to how it benefits them personally their motives are obviously disingenuous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    No doubt, but when one picks and chooses which news is "fake" and which isn't according to how it benefits them personally their motives are obviously disingenuous.
    Nice job of self-reflection. Congrats to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yes, it would be nice if conservative speakers didn’t attract groups like the Proud Boys, whose only interest is in doing violence upon people.

    It would be great if people could conduct protests and counter protests in peace without getting battered or killed by actual, American fascists.

    I have no problem with people of a different political persuasion holding events. But, as their own beliefs would suggest, they should be solely responsible for paying security at an event they wish to put together. “Party of personal responsibility”, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and all that. Why should the community at large, or an academic institution, pay for security at their event? No other group demands that, so why should a certain political persuasion receive undue financial relief?


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    You seem like a smart guy, but man you've got a very bad case of tunnel vision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    Nice job of self-reflection. Congrats to you!


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    A fairness doctrine is useless and about as definable and useless as laws against insider trading.
    Am in no way trying to be an expert or authority on this but the way I see it profit/ratings is the problem. Do we really wonder why news is fake..
    Networks used to have to supply news as a public service to ensure rights to broadcast. Now it’s news for profit.
    Brave new world of experts and followers
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by le duke View Post
    yes, it would be nice if conservative speakers didn’t attract groups like the ANTIFA, whose only interest is in doing violence upon people.

    It would be great if people could conduct protests and counter protests in peace without getting battered or killed by actual, American fascists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Classic redirection, are you a magician?
    No magic needed. You described, from what I've seen, yourself to a T. Self-reflection is a good thing. Enjoy!

  127. #127
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    Thanks to all that tried to provide news sources without turning this into a shit show. Here's what I gathered from the useful responses.

    News sources
    Al Jazeera
    NPR
    AP
    Reuters
    KUSI SD
    BBC

    I've requested the thread to be locked.
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  128. #128
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    Yes, thank you to those who offered new to me sources
    Sorry I can’t add any. Seems they all have a varied degree of slant.
    Will add they feed off the divide. As evident even in here amount fellow mtbers
    Round and round we go

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    No magic needed. You described, from what I've seen, yourself to a T. Self-reflection is a good thing. Enjoy!


    Fake news. I'm not benefiting from any this, quite the opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Thanks to all that tried to provide news sources without turning this into a shit show. Here's what I gathered from the useful responses.

    News sources
    Al Jazeera
    NPR
    AP
    Reuters
    KUSI SD
    BBC

    I've requested the thread to be locked.
    That has got to be the most disingenuous post in the thread. The OP is a close second. The sources listed above with the exception of KUSI SD are mainstream sources well known by many for decades. Especially college students writing papers on the subject.

    Start a thread with a speech about the intelligence level of respondents, request positive and negative responses, then refer to the responses of all who disagree with your premise as “shit”. And asked to have their comments removed and the thread locked. See, that’s the beauty of free speech, I get to know you.

  131. #131
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    Yup, right back to shit show
    Round and round we go

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    A fairness doctrine is useless and about as definable and useless as laws against insider trading.
    Am in no way trying to be an expert or authority on this but the way I see it profit/ratings is the problem. Do we really wonder why news is fake..
    Networks used to have to supply news as a public service to ensure rights to broadcast. Now it’s news for profit.
    Brave new world of experts and followers
    Next you'll be telling us reality TV isn't real.
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  133. #133
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    I kind of get a doom and gloom impression, based on protests everywhere, urging me to not trust in big organizations, and be far less dependent on the system, else be screwed like those in the protests due to changes out of my control.

    I'm not independent nor moderate or anything; I scrutinize the stupidity of everything. In an effort to improve it in myself, I've been essentially "traveling" (virtually) and getting a good look at what's going on.

    I understand the conservative view, but I see it as cowardly, irresponsible, and complacent. The liberal view is hard to describe, but I'd say it's wishy-washy to me. Can the govt be trusted to do anything? With checks and balances in place, the bureaucratic system doesn't get much done. Ask what giving Presidency would even grant any of the candidates. Veto power over corrupt sycophants, sure, okay. What else? Their hands are tied; they can sit on something, kick, and threaten, but the behemoth rarely moves and expends so much resources if it does. It'd be fearsome if freed and gained some fitness and momentum, I admit.

    I'm guessing some informed people are concerned about the oligarchy, or perhaps the power and control of Wall Street, and how if they go down, everyone else goes down with it. That there's people standing to make a huge profit from it, and are actually encouraging a crash. People are so dependent on financial security that they can't imagine what happens if there were a real depression on a global scale. Need to break away from such a dependence on system being fine/stable (not crashing). There are plenty of things disturbing the stability, from tech innovations and war, to this pandemic and climate change. It's sad how people think they can cover eyes and ears and pretend they don't exist, that they're lies, exaggerations, fake, illusions, and seek to carry on.

    Experts have repeatedly said, diversify your finances. Who truly followed such advice? Society has people so interdependent that I bet most won't realize until others fail and they're affected. They rather be selfish/self-centered, enjoying the benefits that others provide them, taking it for granted. When I entered the civ world, from the USAF, I saw ppl well past retirement age working manual labor. They might have had luxuries, saying they owned nice houses and cars, but that's a fortune sunk into something that doesn't have much resale nor is sustainable to keep if things do correct or crash. What happens if these people fall, such as their retirement plans sink? I doubt they'll want to kill themselves off... no way a younger generation can support them, and also expect the system to support the younger generation when they go old too. Social security, pensions, 401k etc. are gutted, the national debt is growing at a higher rate... who's benefiting and who's being left with the burden?

    "Virtual travel" might look like new age couch surfing to some, sedentary for hours, but it's extremely fascinating to me. I honestly don't have anyone to talk to about all the stuff I learn, and I doubt anyone could even follow, without requiring their imagination, which fails to work reliably when ignorant. It's said that travel is fatal to bigotry, prejudice, and narrow-mindedness and writing is the discovery of self (and what you believe in).

    I suppose that I'm implying that it's perhaps wiser to be more active searching for news than passively consuming what's fed to you. I've gone so far to the point that I can write my own news, based on my own investigating. I don't bother, cause rarely anyone gives my posts any sufficient attention. Most effective thing I can do is say some 1-liner like, "aeroponics and vertical farming will save the world." Gotta make people skeptical about some believable prospect that might relate to a fear, I suppose, and make them want to verify, but be careful depending on who it is (gotta play to their biases and stretch them). This pattern works even if the 1-liner is complete BS, especially if you frame something as a common enemy and develop camaraderie. If I try to stack on the concepts of retail apocalypse (e.g. opportune locations for vertical farming), alarming farmer bankruptcy rates, food security and what dystopian stuff (gives me ideas to write horror stories) happens when ppl have trouble avoiding starvation, life during the great depression, etc. peoples' empty heads overheat. Speaking of empty heads, try economics discussion... The future becomes fearsome the more you know, and I suppose people don't want to feel that way, but I feel that fear makes people more attentive and willing to change. How to make people actually look to change themselves rather than lazily pointing to others to change is another problem. Perhaps people confuse the freedom to be selfish/self-centered as the spirit of independence, remaining far too dependent in reality.
    "The challenge is not in developing new ideas, but in escaping old ideas."

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    Fluid sources with a healthy dose of skepticism and curiosity....

    Oh yes, and I read your posts, V.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Next you'll be telling us reality TV isn't real.
    Lol
    Nah
    But can share an interesting bit of history on how realty tv came to be... Surprise! It was money and greed
    Screen writers guild and set builders union had been undecided over contract for a few years. It finally led to a strike. With new seasons approaching networks had to fill the air. No one thought something so stupid would fly, they just wanted to hang on till strike ended. Turns out ppl loved the stupid, and studios found out they could make a show for a fraction the cost. This is all fine and good and fun, except now we have a reality tv show host as our prez. And sadly that’s not fake news!
    Round and round we go

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    What seeds require fertile soil to germinate?
    Many species of mesic woods in temperate North America geminate to much higher proportions on soil than sand. It's slightly ambiguous whether or not the ones that did geminate were truly mature and had developed dormancy at all. Seeds being imbibed on sterile substrate can lose viability waiting to germinate, where they would have already on non inert medium. More so, nitrates in soil work interactively with other cues like light conditions to promote dormancy. This applies variously to species like Campanula Americana and Sisymbrium officinale (along with other mustards).

    Even more, orchids can't really geminate successfully on inert medium, because they have no nutritive tissue in their seeds, so they require fungal associates in the soil, which they parasitize to start growth.
    dang

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    Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that initial germination could be achieved without soil with modification in some cases, for all dormant seed stock. Obviously less than ideal for viability, I thought all that was needed was moisture, temperature, light in some cases.

    As for orchids, understanding the fungal requirement, I was under the impression that they often germinate in trees rather than soil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that initial germination could be achieved without soil with modification in some cases, for all dormant seed stock. Obviously less than ideal for viability, I thought all that was needed was moisture, temperature, light in some cases.

    As for orchids, understanding the fungal requirement, I was under the impression that they often germinate in trees rather than soil.
    Yes, most species are less picky. I think the difference here is that in a lab, you can probably get seeds of most things to germinate on most substrates. However, it may take a long time, and you may have to use chemicals that aren't found in a natural environment to force the physiological process along. In the strictest sense, that germination requires only light and moisture is true for most species, however provides little ecological signal, and seems of little practical use. I work with a species, that I can't divulge too much about because nothing has been published in it, that will geminate to ~35% after one winter of cold stratification on soil. It forms a persistent seed bank. On sand, it will geminate to <10% after cold stratification. There are difficulties in collecting seeds that make it hard to insure constant dormancy state (maturity).

    As for orchids, many tropical orchids are epiphytes, a growth form of plant defined by growing on the surface of other plants, and not necessarily in soil. I actually don't know of any epiphytic orchids in the Eastern US, though we have many orchids.
    dang

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