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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Agree for the most part.
    1. New Switchblade - 160/140. Having well damped mid range on the front makes the bike fell more balance even if Iím not gnar enough to use the last bit of travel
    2. Stick with super boost on the SB. Usually about after a year my rear carbon wheel needs TLC. Alloy forget about it. Other than blowing up my hub the durability and stiffness is appreciated. Usually I have to have a backup wheel.
    3 Careful about compromising to achieve certain ends. Iíll take a PF BB with a massive down tube over external cup BB, short CSs over a long wheel base with reduced fork off set, increased durability/stiffness/weight than marketing low weight, and not a too slack HA or too steep SA to compensate for my lack of skill
    4. Iíll never use a SWAT box. Hate adding weight to the bike.
    5. I used to run Di2 2x. Nice. Pretty reliable. Lower cassette weight. Great range and spacing. But Eagle is .., you know. Anyhow Di2 compatibility has left the building.

    Just my 2c from a internet engineer.



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    Agree with the PF BB.

    I've had zero problems with my PF92s. Again, in theory seems like this set up should make a better frame, albeit causing a hair more hassle for the home mechanic. Pivot's execution of the PF is good so in my mind I see little drawback.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    Bummer, by the time I clicked the link, video was already removed from YouTube.
    Thatís ridiculous, not YouTube doing whatever at the request of the poster, but cleaning the thread? Thatís the fault of whomever posted the video, manufacturers shouldnít own this site.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #203
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    yea agreed.

    i noticed the Turner section got cleaned up alot. i'd guess the manufacturers pay a maintenance fee for these sections and have some input?

    the whole embargo thing is interesting. everyone does it, but i just don't know how effective it is in 2019.

  4. #204
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    Checking back on this thread for the first time in a few days, it seems like there was some sort of a video? What was in it? Or is me asking that grounds for my post to be deleted?


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  5. #205
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    There was a link with a video that was taken down by youtube (I missed getting to watch it by a couple minutes). Shortly after youtube took down the video all the info about what was in the video got 'cleaned' from this thread.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjc115 View Post
    There was a link with a video that was taken down by youtube (I missed getting to watch it by a couple minutes). Shortly after youtube took down the video all the info about what was in the video got 'cleaned' from this thread.
    Haha, what a funny industry this is. Like weíre talking about top secret military equipment. Ok someone PM me what was in the video before they delete all our accounts.


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  7. #207
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    New 429SL, video was from a few weeks ago in Prescott, AZ, but the bikes were not raced during the WOR. I noticed several trail features from my own videos that matched, but I paid attention to the pros during the race and did not see them racing the new bike. Cleaner front triangle, more like a czar, more space for bags and bottles.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #208
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    Kind of silly. Everyone knows a new short travel 29er is coming out. Should be kick a$$ secondary to having no typical trail duty constraints.


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  9. #209
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    Yep. My post was deleted after watching "said" video.

    EDventure

  10. #210
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    Let's make this stick. Everybody who watched the video keep confirming.

    NEW 2019 429SL! New Pivot Bike!

    Now how about that updated Switchblade or at least a new color for fuxake. I'd buy a new one TODAY but the last new Pivot I bought (Not in stock. Custom order shipped from Pivot Mach 6) was an old one while Pivot had new models sitting in their warehouse waiting until they sold off the old ones. New model came out before I received mine. I was very disappointed.

  11. #211
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    It is interesting, XC race at the highest levels is extremely competative and it's not really about the most efficient suspension design, lockouts are even more efficient and those racers can sacrifice their body and deal with the bumps, to get the advantage of a slightly lighter bike. Running lockout everywhere except the gnarly DHs is common. This means that simpler bikes that are lighter are more competitive at these levels, not for everyone, but for the elite of the elite. The old 429SL was inherently heavier than some of the other stuff from Trek, Scott, the new Epic, etc. The new one looks to shave some weight, with a simpler design that uses more of a traditional "diamond" frame, smaller links, vertical shock, etc. As long as it still has the travel, it should be good for everyone that races this format, but for these better suspension designs it is challenging for the manufacturers, because at the end of the day they are a bit heavier too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yupstate View Post
    Haha, what a funny industry this is. Like weíre talking about top secret military equipment. Ok someone PM me what was in the video before they delete all our accounts.


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    Yeah, itís funny unless itís your livelihood that depends on it. Just sayiní

  13. #213
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    Not understanding how it hurts anyoneís livelihood if people in this forum see a video of a soon-to-be released bike?


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  14. #214
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    I got to watch the video and it was labeled/referred to as a MACH 4 SL. Very different shock placement from the old version.

  15. #215
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    It is gonna be a wicked fast XC bike for sure. It has been a long time coming for the update. Hopefully, they beat out everything they could out of the test sleds before committing to the molds.

    It will be interesting to see if they spec the XS with 27.5 wheels instead.

    This one had better be made out of high modulus carbon though. No bike frame over $3000 ("cough" Trail429) should be made of less.

    They should also go ahead and drill that hole in the front triangle to allow for full Di2 integration again. I seems that all went away on these newer frames when there was no front derailleur support in the design. (Trail429 and Firebird 29).
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalea View Post

    This one had better be made out of high modulus carbon though. No bike frame over $3000 ("cough" Trail429) should be made of less.
    I believe I saw in the video that it was made out of high modulus carbon.

  17. #217
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    While I know the discussion has shifted I'd still like to give a plug for a new 5.5

    I think it hits the sweet spot with travel.

    Just a bit longer reach and a bit steeper STA.


    Something I've found is how versatile a 275 can be. With a wheel set up, with a rim having an i35 running a WT 2.5 Minion you get a very agressive bike ready for major AM duties. With the puffy, light 2.6" tires you get a nimble, quick trail bike. Couple that 140/160 of travel and you've got a do everything rig.

    I'm a big fan of the 29 but by the time you run an i35 rim and a 2.5 WT Minion I think that would be just too much wheel to push and throw around.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalea View Post

    They should also go ahead and drill that hole in the front triangle to allow for full Di2 integration again. I seems that all went away on these newer frames when there was no front derailleur support in the design. (Trail429 and Firebird 29).
    Iíd be surprised if they do. Shimano doesnít have di2 for the new 12 speed and the market dominating Eagle is wireless so not much reason to have di2 integration.

    The interesting integration to see would be fox live valve.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    2. Stick with super boost on the SB. Usually about after a year my rear carbon wheel needs TLC. Alloy forget about it. Other than blowing up my hub the durability and stiffness is appreciated. Usually I have to have a backup wheel.
    3 Careful about compromising to achieve certain ends. Iíll take a PF BB with a massive down tube over external cup BB, short CSs over a long wheel base with reduced fork off set, increased durability/stiffness/weight than marketing low weight, and not a too slack HA or too steep SA to compensate for my lack of skill
    Strongly agree on 2 and 3.

    Also no use for Di2 for me.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Yeah, itís funny unless itís your livelihood that depends on it. Just sayiní
    Well a leak earlier might have helped with sales. I've waited patently for Ibis and Pivot to release their bikes while watching a bunch of 'down country' bikes come out- Sniper, Ryve, Signal Peak, Oiz etc...

    Was even told by Pivot would have something similar out for summer. Well if Pivot had leaked something a little sooner I might have waited to see it, but they didn't so I ordered a new Ripley- lost sale. Maybe they don't care. But based on the threads that I follow a lot of people looking for something with less travel, but more modern geo and they've been buying whats out. Pivot could have taken some of those sales if people knew it was coming.

    Pivot just sat back and lost sales, sort of like they did with no frame only sales at the beginning of the Trail 429. I'm happy for all of you out west that have a long riding season- for us on the east coast late May beginning of June is too late to be releasing a bike for this year's riding season.
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  21. #221
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    yep. this is sorta bike ordering season. start of the year and ppl are pumped. i feel like these guys would rather have clear air to release in LATE rather than compete with other launches NOW. sorta the same dilemma film studios face.

    intense pivot all these guys are late to the party.

    i asked intense for ANYTHING on the new primer to keep me from buying something now - they wouldn't oblige so i went ahead and ordered a ripmo.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    ...I'm happy for all of you out west that have a long riding season- for us on the east coast late May beginning of June is too late to be releasing a bike for this year's riding season.
    Agree 100%.

  23. #223
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    In the end, if Pivot was waiting to get everything right with the test sleds before committing to the molds and know that they have a killer bike to deliver I am cool with the waiting.

    It is easy for me to sell and buy what I want when new things come out. So not a big deal when it comes to release dates.

    The Ripley is a different animal compared to this new Mach 4 SL anyway. This looks to compete with the Yeti SB100 head to head (if it is gonna run a 120 SC 34 fork) and we ALL know the big issues the SB100's rear end has had due to the new design they put out.

    So if Pivot got it right, i.e. SOLID/LIGHT frame that doesn't flex with updated newer school GEO and a fantastic new take on the DW platform then they will sell enough of them to make it worth their while.

    Remember too, that release date should also mean enough availability to deliver on orders placed soon afterwards. It sucks to wait over a month to get a new frame/bike
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Well a leak earlier might have helped with sales. I've waited patently for Ibis and Pivot to release their bikes while watching a bunch of 'down country' bikes come out- Sniper, Ryve, Signal Peak, Oiz etc...

    Was even told by Pivot would have something similar out for summer. Well if Pivot had leaked something a little sooner I might have waited to see it, but they didn't so I ordered a new Ripley- lost sale. Maybe they don't care. But based on the threads that I follow a lot of people looking for something with less travel, but more modern geo and they've been buying whats out. Pivot could have taken some of those sales if people knew it was coming.

    Pivot just sat back and lost sales, sort of like they did with no frame only sales at the beginning of the Trail 429. I'm happy for all of you out west that have a long riding season- for us on the east coast late May beginning of June is too late to be releasing a bike for this year's riding season.
    One. Hundred. Percent.

    Pivot did not handle the timing of this well at all for people who are really dialed in to the latest and greatest thing in these specific bike categories.

    But, since they are a business tasked with making money and staying in business, here's where I'll stand up for them. They may have had to make a strategic decision to ignore the small group of us enthusiasts who this affects in order to be in a better position for the lions share of their business.


    I mentioned it before, but I think it's more likely that they had existing stock to clear out before making an announcement. Once you show the new one, demand for the old one takes a nose-dive. Their customers are dealers first, then end users. Booking orders, current stock levels, desire to keep their product off the closeout sites as much as possible, etc... It all comes in to play. You can see at least a couple of their sponsored athletes unloading stuff right now. So there is a lot of timing involved in it.

    I imagine that a company the size of Pivot has to squeeze out every last ounce of efficiency from old molds, inventory management, etc. to do well for themselves.

    Since I know Pivot peeks inside these threads, Here's a suggestion that some other companies in various industries do well:

    Create and maintain a private owners group for Pivot enthusiasts that gives us access to better information that the average joe closeout shopper. We're a relatively small, but passionate group that would immensely appreciate such an arrangement. It will boost brand loyalty among the group and that will translate into better word-of-mouth brand awareness. The information doesn't have to be perfect - just enough to keep us engaged and feeling like we're in the loop. I don't have to make a wager on this... I actually know from experience that this will work. Will some information get out? Yes. Does it really matter? No. Over time, Pivot would be amazed at how little the majority of their buyers care to pay attention to product rumors or tech insight. It won't affect sales of aging models to any degree of importance and it won't suddenly lead to competitors having an edge with insider information. This all comes down to execution anyway and only Pivot can execute exactly like Pivot does. What would happen is, those of us who are tuned in enough to care will be captivated and we won't be lost as customers like many of us have on this latest round of "what's coming and when - apparently nothing, never" . Come on, Pivot. Make it happen.

  25. #225
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    I'm guessing the timing of this new bike coincides with it being done, in-stock, and ready to rock. Just a wild guess.

    You start leaking and then you're inundated with questions about specs, availability, comparisons, etc. I've learned through making that very mistake that it's better to keep quiet until EVERYTHING is ready.

    It's always gonna be bad timing for someone, for gosh sakes it's fall in the southern hemisphere.

    I can't wait to see this new bike! For now I'll just keep racing my Les and Trail 429!
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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalea View Post
    The Ripley is a different animal compared to this new Mach 4 SL anyway. This looks to compete with the Yeti SB100 head to head (if it is gonna run a 120 SC 34 fork) and we ALL know the big issues the SB100's rear end has had due to the new design they put out.
    I'm in Phoenix, and already have two Pivots: two LES's - one SS and one geared, so I'm a big fan. I've been looking to downsize my FS bike (Intense Primer) to a short-travel rig, and would have been all over a Pivot in that class. The existing 429 SL didn't do it for me. I ended up getting an SB100, and am hopeful/confident that the issues are behind it. Point being, if an announcement had been made sooner, I might be getting another Pivot...
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  27. #227
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    The old stock thing is probably valid, the 2018 I have has a significantly redesigned rear end to alleviate the cracking that happened on the front triangle, Iím not sure if the front is different, but visually itís the same, point is it had a mid cycle redesign to address some issues. Still, youíd think a price drop on old stock and keeping the price stable and relatively high on the new would take care of it. Really, Iíd think they just want to announce when their supply chain is in place, which is great and itís ok to hold off IMO to do that. Acting like itís the next stealth bomber when some details are revealed or the vid is leaked is childish IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Well a leak earlier might have helped with sales. I've waited patently for Ibis and Pivot to release their bikes while watching a bunch of 'down country' bikes come out- Sniper, Ryve, Signal Peak, Oiz etc...

    Was even told by Pivot would have something similar out for summer. Well if Pivot had leaked something a little sooner I might have waited to see it, but they didn't so I ordered a new Ripley- lost sale. Maybe they don't care. But based on the threads that I follow a lot of people looking for something with less travel, but more modern geo and they've been buying whats out. Pivot could have taken some of those sales if people knew it was coming. .
    I've seen it countless times on MTBR, the manufacturer releases info prematurely then gets raked over the coals for not having inventory. Ibis and Turner were notorious for this. Their probably better off not saying anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Pivot just sat back and lost sales, sort of like they did with no frame only sales at the beginning of the Trail 429. I'm happy for all of you out west that have a long riding season- for us on the east coast late May beginning of June is too late to be releasing a bike for this year's riding season.
    The no frame deal seemed like a mistake, but if Pivot sold all their inventory, did they lose sales?
    Last edited by OldHouseMan; 1 Week Ago at 09:04 PM.
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  29. #229
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    Ok, so I am the one that found the Mach 4 SL video on YouTube and posted it up here getting the whole "thread cleansing" thing rolling. I do have to say, as a whole, our internet search wu is severly lacking folks. The video was posted on 8 May. I found it on the 13th and posted on here. We can do better than that!

    Hey Pivot....I am AZ local and an AICL coach. I love your bikes and also how you support high school and middle school racing. So....How about sending me one of those for a long-term review? I am thinking this thing should be my 2020 AZTR 300 bike, Whiskey 50 bike, Tour of the White Mountains 50 bike, 24 HOP bike, Dirty Bunny 100 bike, Lemmon Drop bike, etc.

  30. #230
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    Definitely interested in an update 429! Bought the SL upon release and would like a new frame and fork.

  31. #231
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    Looks like the new xc bike is being used at grand junction... anyone have more info?

  32. #232
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    I think that's the new bike... hard to see much and I can't find any more pictures.
    Sofia Gomez Villafane rode it at Grand Junction.

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  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by majorjake View Post
    I think that's the new bike... hard to see much and I can't find any more pictures.
    Sofia Gomez Villafane rode it at Grand Junction.

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    Well, based on the 32, at 100mm, thatís new for Pivot. Must mean a 100/100 bike, with likely option for 120/100, like the Blur or SB100.


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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Well, based on the 32, at 100mm, thatís new for Pivot. Must mean a 100/100 bike, with likely option for 120/100, like the Blur or SB100.


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    How is that new? The 429SL has been available with a 100mm fork and there are builds including either a 120 or 100mm. 120 has been popular for people looking for a more trail-orientated bike, while 100mm for those looking for more racey feel. I can say I didn't feel like I sacrificed anything with the push-tuned 100mm 32 SC on the WOR descents, I was able to go to mach 4 when I wasn't stuck behind anyone.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the pros start to run the new bike though, I just looked back through my photos and most of the Pivot pros were on hardtails at the WOR, a few 429SLs. Supposedly GC is chunkier than WOR. The new bike with the more open triangle probably holds two bottles easily and that's definitely helpful for the pros.

    I don't think a lot of gravity-junkies realize what fun and how fast a shorter travel bike can be. You can corner faster on all sorts of terrain and keep speed up to pop off of obstacles and stuff that you'd never get to do with a heavier "rig".

    100/100 with 120/100 option is definitely the way to go for their front-line XC race bike. I think the 429 Trail grew a little too much in terms of it's weight and the travel. I would have likened it to the XC race bike that you can interchangeably ride trail with. I think the original concept was better, although the current one still makes a decent "one bike".
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #235
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    From the vid I saw, I doubt you'll get 2 bottles inside that front triangle. The shock is mounted vertical, like on a Czar.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    From the vid I saw, I doubt you'll get 2 bottles inside that front triangle. The shock is mounted vertical, like on a Czar.
    The bikes in the vid looked pretty small, as far as frame size. I always like a bigger/traditional front triangle, due to being able to put a frame-bag in there, heck, you could run a hanging top-tube bag that you could put a bottle in, but I digress, we will see shortly enough.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  37. #237
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    Link to the vid you speak of?

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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by majorjake View Post
    Link to the vid you speak of?

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    The vid that was "accidentally" released on the Pivot youtube channel and then pulled.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The bikes in the vid looked pretty small, as far as frame size. I always like a bigger/traditional front triangle, due to being able to put a frame-bag in there, heck, you could run a hanging top-tube bag that you could put a bottle in, but I digress, we will see shortly enough.
    Yeah, you may be able to do something from the bottom of the top tub for sure. That vertical shock config won't leave room for 2 on the inside downtube even on a large frame IMO. I'd prefer 2 as well, but if everything else is spec'd right I will prob still opt for this over the Sniper. Lotta speculation at this point though. ;-)

  40. #240
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    Only the XL frame can take two bottles. Both on the inside of the downtube behind each other.

  41. #241
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    Better pic
    Curious if the weight of it will be competitive

    What's next for pivot??-a11309c1-b3c9-45a5-828c-e4388e524fa7.jpg
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  42. #242
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    Small frame including shock sub 5 lbs...

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruckus99ss View Post
    Better pic
    Curious if the weight of it will be competitive

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I love the stiffness of my 429SL, that and the suspension are the two biggest advantages IME. That said, even apart from redesigning the linkage and frame tubes, there are ways to shave weight, like all the little Di2 doors and provisions. Now there's wireless AXS which makes this somewhat obsolete IMO, traditional cables N housing, or AXS, no big need to have the intermediary wired system IMO. I'm sure the new bike will be a bit lighter, but again, we are probably looking at an evolutionary change, as in a very small amount. I'm already below 23lbs with a dropper when I use my race-wheelset, shaving some more weight is always nice and the lightest XC FS rigs these days from the major manufacturers are a bit lighter...but this is a double edged sword, as many of those bikes aren't really intended to hold up to season after season of use, so there's a fine line here between dropping weight and making it a "disposable" bike that lasts one season.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    Yeah, you may be able to do something from the bottom of the top tub for sure. That vertical shock config won't leave room for 2 on the inside downtube even on a large frame IMO. I'd prefer 2 as well, but if everything else is spec'd right I will prob still opt for this over the Sniper. Lotta speculation at this point though. ;-)
    I do some long distance/endurance stuff at 100 miles and being able to put a frame-bag on there or at least getting custom-made one for a traditional triangle would be a plus. I still run a camelback in such events, but I like to get everything else off my back/body, and a lot can happen over 100 miles, not to mention the food you need to keep going.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  45. #245
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    looks like a czar.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    looks like a czar.
    Agreed. A longer, slacker Czar (maybe a touch lighter) would probably make my current one obsolete. Internal dropper routing would be nice too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    Agreed. A longer, slacker Czar (maybe a touch lighter) would probably make my current one obsolete. Internal dropper routing would be nice too.
    I'm sure it will have internal dropper routing, the 429SL has fully internal dropper and remote routing. In 2019, they'd be stupid to not continue this. Turner has a different philosophy when it comes to cables. Mine are all external on my RFX, except the dropper which enters at the bottom of the seat-tube, but with no grommet/seal.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm sure it will have internal dropper routing, the 429SL has fully internal dropper and remote routing. In 2019, they'd be stupid to not continue this. Turner has a different philosophy when it comes to cables. Mine are all external on my RFX, except the dropper which enters at the bottom of the seat-tube, but with no grommet/seal.
    I'm sure it will, I meant that was another negative of the Czar. My Flux v4 has the same routing as your RFX. I actually prefer external routing for the rear brake and shifter, but the internal routing is growing on me.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    I'm sure it will, I meant that was another negative of the Czar. My Flux v4 has the same routing as your RFX. I actually prefer external routing for the rear brake and shifter, but the internal routing is growing on me.
    I was just running a remote the other day and once you adapt to all the methods and procedures, it's not a huge deal. If you don't know some of the cheats and proper ways, you can be sitting there frustrated for hours. It's like anything else, if done well, it works well. If done poorly, well you might as well have external and forgo the frustration. The external on the turners is not without some difficulty, the upper clamps are hard to access with anything but a free hex wrench, and even then it's very difficult to install doing 1/4 turns at once. The chain bangs on one of the lower derailleur guide bolts and turns it into a pitted mess. At the very least, with full housing on all modern designs, the housing seems to last MUCH longer and you get less issues caused by friction/dirt entering.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  50. #250
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    Chris from Pivot just had an interview published on Bike Rumor where it is said the new bike is just a few days away----and it will be sold with forks having 2 travel options---and they did not say but infer super boost---and has a 74 degree seat angle

  51. #251
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    I guess we can put this thread dormant for another year or so. I was almost spot on with my prediction except for a 0.5deg on the HA.

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    yea but where's the SwItChBlAdE?!?

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