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Thread: Pivot Trail 429

  1. #1
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    Pivot Trail 429

    A new Pivot release is imminent. The ďTrail 429Ē is now showing on Pivotís site under both the ďXC/TrailĒ and ďEnduro/TrailĒ categories. The link is not working yet. Guessing that will change in the next day or two!

    My guess is 140f/120r, with updated geometry, consistent with Pivotís other ďnewĒ bikes.



    Edit: Itís here! https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-...irst-ride.html
    Last edited by ReXTless; 05-17-2018 at 05:09 AM.

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    The 429t has always been in both categories on the site and I till see them there---no change--

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    Sixth sense tells me that it's coming within days.

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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    The 429t has always been in both categories on the site and I till see them there---no change--
    Yes, the ďMach 429 TrailĒ has always been there in both categories. What is new is the addition of the ďTrail 429Ē, which appears below the ďMach 429 TrailĒ.

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    Not seeing the Trail 429 now on their site. Must have been a teaser. Sub 17" chainstays?? 120-130r? 66* HA? Gonna be sweet..
    How can this mean anything to me, if I really don't feel anything at all. I'll keep digging, till I feel something.

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    Just to compare the geometry to my Switchblade as Iím sure others will be interested too.





    Iíd have liked to see more reach and a steeper seat tube angle along with the use of the Step Cast 34, but it looks a fantastic bike. I like the fact it has a higher B.B., very useful in this part of the world!




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    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.

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    Subbing. What a great time to be in the market for a Trail bike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    Frame weight 6.4lbs according to Pinkbike.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-tr...irst-ride.html

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    I like the frame geo for sure. Bummed about no frame only option at this time. Reviews have been luke warm though. I just don't feel the excitement by the reviewers. Also they seem to not like the square edge and firmness of the suspension as most have spent time taking about it and actually pointing it out. Looks very Following MB to me. It will be interesting to see how it performs in our real world and the comparisons. However I like what I see so far.

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    Last edited by bogeydog; 05-17-2018 at 04:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    Agreed on the super boost. Otherwise it looks good.

  13. #13
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    Nice looking bike. Superboost Plus and no frame-only option take it off the list for me though.

    Could be a home run for those who want complete bikes, instead of custom builds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    No you won't no frame only option- silly Pivot you custom builders don't know how to build bikes properly.

    From the MTBR post on it "Pivot wants to control the build kits to ensure the frames are built up with compatible components"

    Honestly glad I didn't wait and ordered a TB3, they screw up the SL as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    Agreed on the super boost. Otherwise it looks good.
    I donít get it. Longer chainstays and less tire clearance compared to the Switchblade. And, no front derailleur compatibility either. Those were the three things Pivot said it gained by moving to Superboost plus on the Switchblade. So, why did they do it? Stiffness?

    Most other companies can make a bike with adequate weight and stiffness properties without resorting to overkill rear spacing. Theyíre trading build flexibility, frame-only availability, and heel/ankle/shoe clearance for dubious stiffness gains.

    I was ready to buy a frame at launch, assuming both availability and positive ride reviews. Appears the bike is falling short on both accounts. Their gamble of taking the first batch of reviewers on Mag 7 w/Portal backfired. Hereís my reading between the lines of the early reviews - ďWait! You want me to ride THIS? Down THAT?Ē

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    Looks fine but really not that interesting.
    It's not that different compared to SB in terms of geometry either.

    Metric shock is fine but they could've used trunnion mount and incresed the stroke, as it is now - 45mm stroke for 120mm travel is a bit old school when most companies are using longer shocks to get smoother feeling rear end and decrease leverage ratio.

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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by MarinCRO View Post
    Looks fine but really not that interesting.
    It's not that different compared to SB in terms of geometry either.

    Metric shock is fine but they could've used trunnion mount and incresed the stroke, as it is now - 45mm stroke for 120mm travel is a bit old school when most companies are using longer shocks to get smoother feeling rear end and decrease leverage ratio.
    Agree. In addition, short stroke causes issues for heavier riders. Itís much tougher to find the sweet spot during setup when you have a billion psi in the shock.

  18. #18
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Huge pivot fan but Iím disappointed in the use of super boost. Makes custom builds and using boost wheel sets that I already have impossible. I think itís big strategic mistake by Pivot.

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    So glad I didn't wait for this update. I'm not a weight weenie but how did you make a frame that weighs almost a pound more than than the Mach 5.5??

    Also, SuperBoostPlus

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    Super boost plus - nay.

    Super short shock stroke - nay again.

    Everything else looks great to me. Better looks, not super-fragile lightweight, BB height reasonable for people that pedal.

    Bummer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Frame weight 6.4lbs according to Pinkbike.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-tr...irst-ride.html
    Too heavy. Deal killer.

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    oh well...

    looks like the Sniper stays at the top of my list for now...
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  23. #23
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    Super boost isnít a deal breaker for me, but no frame only option or Di2 support is.

  24. #24
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    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Pivot Trail 429-pivot_trail429_francis-0503-1024x682.jpg
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Click image for larger version. 

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    Size and total weight for the bike you rode?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pivot_Trail429_Francis-0503-1024x682.jpg 
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    Nice write-up, FC! Any info on the dpx2 upcharge?

    Also, which current 29er trail bike do you think is most-similar to the Trail 429?

    How does the rear suspension feel compared against the old M429T and the Switchblade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Too heavy. Deal killer.
    Thatís Med WITH shock....not sure what youíre looking for in a trailbike. Iím sure the next gen 429SL will weigh less.

    I like the idea of 157. But I wonder if they used it here as a means to gain more acceptability? Maybe as Pivot updates models....more and more Pivots with 157 means more and more demand???

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooly88 View Post
    Huge pivot fan but Iím disappointed in the use of super boost. Makes custom builds and using boost wheel sets that I already have impossible. I think itís big strategic mistake by Pivot.
    Agreed. This is why I never bought a switch blade

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    Pivot Trail 429-2agqsv.jpg

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    I'm a fan of Pivot. I like that they are local to AZ and my favorite bike shop carries them. However, they are becoming less attractive to me.

    Superboost is a deal breaker as I like to switch between 29 and 27+ and I don't want to have to build a new wheelset.

    I'm 6'5" so I'm always looking for big bikes. There XL bikes have always been on the small side. While they have increased the reach, but still short for tall guys, the stack got slammed. Why too small for me now. I don't know how they think someone 6'7" can fit on a XL.

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    near what i had hoped for

    I do not care if it is 157 as I do not change wheels---so fine for me.
    Like the new GEO numbers---just where I wanted.

    But would have liked to see 130 and not 120 so the bike could be plusher.

    It is odd they released on a trail not that well suited for a 130/120 bike from anyone---seems odd and the reviewers are saying so.

    Is it enough for me to buy given I have the current bike-----time will tell in the next few months---

    I think I am between this bike and an Intense Primer---have not ridden that bike but ;looks good from feedback and the GEO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyham View Post
    I'm a fan of Pivot. I like that they are local to AZ and my favorite bike shop carries them. However, they are becoming less attractive to me.

    Superboost is a deal breaker as I like to switch between 29 and 27+ and I don't want to have to build a new wheelset.

    I'm 6'5" so I'm always looking for big bikes. There XL bikes have always been on the small side. While they have increased the reach, but still short for tall guys, the stack got slammed. Why too small for me now. I don't know how they think someone 6'7" can fit on a XL.
    All great points!

    I don't understand Pivot and their thinking on this new frame.

    -No Frame only option
    -Super Boost
    -Guys over 6'3" will still probably look elsewhere
    -No "flip chip" in the frame to quickly change between 29er and 27+. You still must swap out the bottom cup of the headset
    -Heavy
    -PF92*
    -Cable under the BB*

    * I could care less about these issues, but both have been constantly complained about with the old frame.

    Edited to add- I do think the colors and graphics are a move in the right direction vs. Pivots of the past. At least they got that right.
    Last edited by 410sprint; 05-18-2018 at 12:49 AM.

  33. #33
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    I love every inch of it. Can't wait to get one!

    Been praying for a bike to bridge the gap between the Switchblade and 429sl, and this is precisely that. This thing is gonna be a KOM murder weapon. The Switchblade punched well above it's weight on the descents, but never shined on sustained climbs or felt super snappy. Granted, you could climb anything though (very planted, but maneuverable). The 429sl is/was the opposite, it gets up and goes! But the short reach and tall bar height required some workarounds to get its demeanor comfortable for shredding. That said, I'm actually really happy with it at the moment with a +5mm reach headset and -25ļ 70mm stem for XC racing.

    Let the good times roll!
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I love every inch of it. Can't wait to get one!

    Been praying for a bike to bridge the gap between the Switchblade and 429sl, and this is precisely that. This thing is gonna be a KOM murder weapon. The Switchblade punched well above it's weight on the descents, but never shined on sustained climbs or felt super snappy. Granted, you could climb anything though (very planted, but maneuverable). The 429sl is/was the opposite, it gets up and goes! But the short reach and tall bar height required some workarounds to get its demeanor comfortable for shredding. That said, I'm actually really happy with it at the moment with a +5mm reach headset and -25ļ 70mm stem for XC racing.

    Let the good times roll!
    Whenís the big reveal Noah? I noticed youíve got yourself some new bars and sold the SB!!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Whenís the big reveal Noah? I noticed youíve got yourself some new bars and sold the SB!!
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.

    Here's what I have so far:
    - MRP Ribbon (air) 130mm
    - SRAM X01 11-speed drivetrain with XX1 Gripshift (went with 11 vs 12 for weight).
    - Enve M730 rims with DT 350 hubs
    - Magura MT-7 Trail Carbon brakes 180/180
    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    - Enve M7 40mm rise carbon handlebar and 35mm stem. 35mm bar diameter.

    I honestly knew very little about this bike until this morning. They were very tight lipped about it! Love the specs and colors.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.

    Here's what I have so far:
    - MRP Ribbon (air) 130mm
    - SRAM X01 11-speed drivetrain with XX1 Gripshift (went with 11 vs 12 for weight).
    - Enve M730 rims with DT 350 hubs
    - Magura MT-7 Trail Carbon brakes 180/180
    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    - Enve M7 40mm rise carbon handlebar and 35mm stem. 35mm bar diameter.

    I honestly knew very little about this bike until this morning. They were very tight lipped about it! Love the specs and colors.
    I can vouch that the One Up is a fantastic dropper, Iíve been using one on my Les since they launched and Iíve been very impressed with it. Anyway surely MRP have a dropper post in development by now?!

    Your build sounds great, I also went with 11 Speed XX1 over Eagle on my Les for the same reasons.

    Looking forward to seeing your bike when youíve built it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    I donít get it. Longer chainstays and less tire clearance compared to the Switchblade. And, no front derailleur compatibility either. Those were the three things Pivot said it gained by moving to Superboost plus on the Switchblade. So, why did they do it? Stiffness?
    Yeah, that surprised me. When they launched Superboost on the Switchblade, the front derailleur compatibility combined with short chainstays and clearance for huge tires was the reason they gave - basically, they said they could only pick two of the three with Boost, so they made Superboost. If they've dropped the front derailleur, it makes no sense to keep it - plenty of bikes manage short chainstays and clearance for plus tires with normal Boost.

    The weight is frustrating too - a pound heavier than the claimed weight of the Mach 5.5 for a smaller, less burly bike. In fact, it's not any lighter than the old model - I just looked through my old posts and my medium 429T frame+shock was 6.3 lbs without the rear axle. It does look like they've kept the lower prices relative to the other models, so maybe they're still using the lower-modulus carbon (which was one of the reasons they gave for the old one being heavier), but they're not as low as they once were - the Pro X01 build is $300 more, Pro XT is $100 more, the Race kits are $500 more, Team XTR is $200 more, and Team XX1 is $500 more. For that big of a price jump on most models, I'd rather they just raised the pricing to the same level as their other bikes and gone for a lighter frame.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.
    I've been very happy with my Magura Trail Sports - the Trail Carbons were a little too rich for my blood (and I prefer the shorter lever on the Sport), but they do have some nice bling factor with the polished calipers. I'm trying the OneUp dropper on my new build, but it's not all here yet, so no ride reports. Build quality seems pretty good out of the box though.

    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    Based on Pivot's FAQ, that might be a bit dicey. Q-factor should be fine, but the chain line won't be ideal. Shimano's boost cranks have a 53.5mm chain line, and Pivot recommends 56mm.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by coleam View Post
    (and I prefer the shorter lever on the Sport)
    Yeah, I think I messed up there. I will probably want the 1-finger levers, but I'll try these first. Might go for the HC3 levers in the end, for the adjustability.


    Quote Originally Posted by coleam View Post
    Based on Pivot's FAQ, that might be a bit dicey. Q-factor should be fine, but the chain line won't be ideal. Shimano's boost cranks have a 53.5mm chain line, and Pivot recommends 56mm.
    Yeah, but I run non-Boost XTR on my 429sl (34t oval), Boost SLX on my Switchblade (32t oval), and non-Boost XT on my Firebird (34t round). So I'm hoping something from Shimano fits since I have power meters. We shall see!

    Honestly the tighter the chainline you can get away with, the better it is for chain wear.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
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    The more I think about it, the more I'm bummed about yet another damn wheel change..and that Pivot deserves a bunch of crap for leading the way.

    I just posted this from a recent Bike rumor piece on the superboost thread, and will share it here too...at least someone is talking some sense about this

    Stanís Notubes: letís pause and think about what riders really need
    "Our hope is that if we all get to 157x12mm, we all stay there," said Chris Currie, creative director at Stan's.

    "We should all be doing more to put the consumer first, and having four wheelsets in your garage that can't swap between bikes might not be improving the bike-ownership experience.

    "Maybe there's a whole level of what people want out of bicycles that none of us have really figured out yet, but just based on my own experience, I wouldn't say 'convenience' is anywhere in our collective vocabulary. This might be a side-effect of our constant need to sell 10 bikes to one rider instead of bringing new riders into the equation."

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    Damn.

    The now old 429tr had one problem, geometry. Seat angle so slack I couldn't get seat forward enough, seat tubes and head tubes too tall for each size (i.e. a bit short reach/size). Otherwise would have been my perfect trail bike and many others too.

    The geometry on the new model looks ok, just wish they would have kept reach on sizes a bit less than the switchblade (they basically have the same geo which is very odd in my opinion, why not let the trail be a bit more trail-oriented on the geometry-side of things when there is the switchblade for those who want high-speed friendly geo). Also, I think that when lengthening the front center, you need longer CS, short CS+long reach creates imbalance.

    Disappointed on the super boost though, bikes are plenty stiff and wheels are plenty stiff without it. For me, that's a deciding factor. Would have bought a Switchblade, but I decided I don't want super boost (heel clearance, Q-factor bad for knees, uneven spoke tensions etc.). That's why I won't buy their new trail 429 either.

    Internal cable routing is fine for cables but why can't manufacturers route the brake hose on top of the downtube? Would be great.

  42. #42
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    Pivot Trail 429

    I didnít see this much SuperBoost negativity when the Alchemy was released.


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  43. #43
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    I very much don't want to come off as negative here, but I am really disappointed. I have owned many Pivots (including the original Mach 429 Trail, Mach 429 Carbon, 2 Mach 6's and a 2017 FireBird I still have) and as a professional marketer I am baffled by Pivots' approach here.

    It seems like they are trying to solve problems that their customers don't perceive as such, and then working around these issues with other feats of engineering - OR - trying to find more ways to increase their margins by decreasing cost of goods. My hunch is its got to be the last issue as I wouldn't be able to understand wasting R/D expenses trying to achieve a user requirement that isn't strong as say longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, etc. For example, have they done heavy market analysis that shows where frame stiffness ranks for a user requirement on a light duty trail bike, and if this requirement is the same as say an Enduro / DH bike? I hate to say it, but there is nothing this really has over the Santa Cruz Tallboy which is disappointing - I like to see bike manufacturers pushing the boundaries and coming up with truly innovative design - but these designs must be based on user needs, not pre conceived notions about "stiffness above all else..." etc.

    In this case, it feels like they went with a cheaper carbon layup making the frame heavier, and somehow, Cocalis et al weren't happy with the flex characteristics of the rear triangle and opted for Super Boost Plus (SBP) to make up for that. Otherwise, why on earth would you put such a wide hub (and one that wasn't a real hit with the SwitchBlade) on a light trail bike?

    What they got right:

    Colors are amazing
    Internal routing (and those that complain about the rear break hose under the BB - I don't think that is really an issue)
    Losing need to have front derailleur - shows they understand market trends
    Not having Di2 (although they could have made the hole under the downtube under the protector like Santa Cruz does it) - not many customer in this segment would require a Di2 system
    Updated geometry
    Wishbone design for rear triangle

    What they got wrong

    Super Boost Plus
    PF BB - I don't know of any rider that believes this is an asset - it is a liability and one that people (including LBS service) have to constantly deal with. I have not had one issue with my SC Hightower which has threaded. PF BB on Pivots, not so much.
    Frame weight
    Angle set caps to go from 29 to 27.5 Plus (hard to remove) - Flip chip design is better / easier

    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.

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    Still a Pivot fan. As a Clyde I like stiffness especially in the chunk. Other than the internet and 30mm spindles crammed into a too small BB, PF92 and XT or GXP has been trouble free. I donít really swap wheels between bikes so 157 is only a benefit for me unless my wheel craps out. Yes, that could ruin a highly anticipated ride. My XO hub has been very reliable. Iíll take the massive stiffness and short CS over anything else out now. I can understand why people are resistant to change especially considering the high price of mountain biking. When I was in the market for a pickup, my friends recommended Toyota based on old perceptions but tech always moves forward.


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    I was super excited since I really liked my 429Trail and the geo updates, then I saw Superboost and no frame only and decided 'nah'. I've got nice wheelsets with solid hubs and it doesn't exactly look like a ton of other manufacturers are going with super boost. It'll also make resale tougher.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Still a Pivot fan. As a Clyde I like stiffness especially in the chunk. Other than the internet and 30mm spindles crammed into a too small BB, PF92 and XT or GXP has been trouble free. I donít really swap wheels between bikes so 157 is only a benefit for me unless my wheel craps out. Yes, that could ruin a highly anticipated ride. My XO hub has been very reliable. Iíll take the massive stiffness and short CS over anything else out now. I can understand why people are resistant to change especially considering the high price of mountain biking. When I was in the market for a pickup, my friends recommended Toyota based on old perceptions but tech always moves forward.


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    I totally agree with this, Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, the Switchblade feels like a bike made for a Clyde and that was one of the deciding factors when choosing a new bike. I attribute a lot of that to the SuperBoost.

    The Trail429 looks like a fantastic bike, I would have preferred it to be a little further away from the Switchblade in terms of geometry and it would have been nice if it was a lighter weight, again to differentiate it a little more but Iím definitely interested in a test ride to compare it to my beloved SB.

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    I've moved away from Pivots recently (they didn't seem like they really cared if I was a customer or not and I always landed flat in-between Small and Medium on the newer bikes) but I was thinking I might regret not waiting for the updated 429Trail instead of buying the Ripley LS. Well, although the colors and frame design look great and they improved the geo a bunch, the Super Duper (pun intended) Boost and 6.4 pounds (at least) weight had me breathe a sigh of relief. HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5? Not to mention I'm again in between sizes; the jump from small to medium is too big on most of their bikes.
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  48. #48
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    I've moved away from Pivots recently (they didn't seem like they really cared if I was a customer or not and I always landed flat in-between Small and Medium on the newer bikes) but I was thinking I might regret not waiting for the updated 429Trail instead of buying the Ripley LS. Well, although the colors and frame design look great and they improved the geo a bunch, the Super Duper (pun intended) Boost and 6.4 pounds (at least) weight had me breathe a sigh of relief. HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5? Not to mention I'm again in between sizes; the jump from small to medium is too big on most of their bikes.
    If we assume the 5.5 has adequate stiffness for its intended purpose and weighs what we think it does, doesnít the reason for the porky frame weight on the T429 have to be lower quality carbon material/layup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5?
    Totally agree that the frame is too heavy, but FWIW, Pivot customer service told me on the phone yesterday that the 5.5 frame is 5.7 lb. for a Medium in Black, and 6.2 lb. for a Large in Red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Totally agree that the frame is too heavy, but FWIW, Pivot customer service told me on the phone yesterday that the 5.5 frame is 5.7 lb. for a Medium in Black, and 6.2 lb. for a Large in Red.
    And you believed them? They're the same ones who said the 5.5 weighed in at 429SL weights, and that 5.5 frames started at 5.2 pounds. They must have a helium machine next to their scale.
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    I totally agree with this, Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, the Switchblade feels like a bike made for a Clyde and that was one of the deciding factors when choosing a new bike. I attribute a lot of that to the SuperBoost.

    The Trail429 looks like a fantastic bike, I would have preferred it to be a little further away from the Switchblade in terms of geometry and it would have been nice if it was a lighter weight, again to differentiate it a little more but Iím definitely interested in a test ride to compare it to my beloved SB.
    What did superdooperboost do to make the frame stiffer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    And you believed them? They're the same ones who said the 5.5 weighed in at 429SL weights, and that 5.5 frames started at 5.2 pounds. They must have a helium machine next to their scale.
    So how do you figure that the Trail is a pound more than the 5.5? If you think they're not telling the truth about the 5.5 frame and the actual weight is north of 5.7lb to 6.2lb, you must think the Trail weighs around 7 lb.

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    ^^^What I think is that they fudge (lie about?) their frame/build weights to pump up the hype. Others might do it also but rarely so blatantly.
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    ^^^What I think is that they fudge (lie about?) their frame/build weights to pump up the hype. Others might do it also but rarely so blatantly.
    I can say that my (previous version) 429T frame (medium) weighed in at 6.3 lbs sans rear axle hardware. I should have a 5.5 next week, but I'm not sure I'll have a chance to weigh just the frame as I bought a full build this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I very much don't want to come off as negative here, but I am really disappointed. I have owned many Pivots (including the original Mach 429 Trail, Mach 429 Carbon, 2 Mach 6's and a 2017 FireBird I still have) and as a professional marketer I am baffled by Pivots' approach here.

    It seems like they are trying to solve problems that their customers don't perceive as such, and then working around these issues with other feats of engineering - OR - trying to find more ways to increase their margins by decreasing cost of goods. My hunch is its got to be the last issue as I wouldn't be able to understand wasting R/D expenses trying to achieve a user requirement that isn't strong as say longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, etc. For example, have they done heavy market analysis that shows where frame stiffness ranks for a user requirement on a light duty trail bike, and if this requirement is the same as say an Enduro / DH bike? I hate to say it, but there is nothing this really has over the Santa Cruz Tallboy which is disappointing - I like to see bike manufacturers pushing the boundaries and coming up with truly innovative design - but these designs must be based on user needs, not pre conceived notions about "stiffness above all else..." etc.

    In this case, it feels like they went with a cheaper carbon layup making the frame heavier, and somehow, Cocalis et al weren't happy with the flex characteristics of the rear triangle and opted for Super Boost Plus (SBP) to make up for that. Otherwise, why on earth would you put such a wide hub (and one that wasn't a real hit with the SwitchBlade) on a light trail bike?

    What they got right:

    Colors are amazing
    Internal routing (and those that complain about the rear break hose under the BB - I don't think that is really an issue)
    Losing need to have front derailleur - shows they understand market trends
    Not having Di2 (although they could have made the hole under the downtube under the protector like Santa Cruz does it) - not many customer in this segment would require a Di2 system
    Updated geometry
    Wishbone design for rear triangle

    What they got wrong

    Super Boost Plus
    PF BB - I don't know of any rider that believes this is an asset - it is a liability and one that people (including LBS service) have to constantly deal with. I have not had one issue with my SC Hightower which has threaded. PF BB on Pivots, not so much.
    Frame weight
    Angle set caps to go from 29 to 27.5 Plus (hard to remove) - Flip chip design is better / easier

    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.
    This post is 100% right. I probably would buy one if it were not for super boost as the other things are less of a concern for me.

  56. #56
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    Heavy carbon frames is the reason I'm going to just buy Aluminum bikes from here on out...

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    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    At 130, there really wouldn't be anything to distinguish it from the Switchblade (135mm rear).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    I was fine with Boost 148 and could sort of see why they were using it. I can't say I'm the same with Super Boost. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much early acceptance of it either - Pivot themselves indirectly admits it in their reasoning for not selling frame only "...due to the relatively limited number of Super Boost Plus wheel options on the market, Pivot is only offering the Mach 429 as a complete bike, but that could change in the future".

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    Different this time. The entire industry for the most part went boost. Pivot is one of the few that use super boost plus on trail bikes.

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    I hope they don't completely mess up the 429SL next.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    What did superdooperboost do to make the frame stiffer?
    I canít recall saying that it did, but thereís a detailed FAQ on the Pivot site that goes into the benefits if youíre genuinely interested?

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    Looks great. Can't wait to try one.

  64. #64
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    Reminiscing about simpler times...

    Pivot Trail 429-img_1620.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.
    Nailed it!

    I'm a big fan of the Pivot brand. Hopefully this is not a sign of past success building a culture of arrogance. Look back through any of the threads discussing speculation about changes to the 429 Trail and I guarantee you will not find anyone calling for Super Boost and begging Pivot to keep the PF92. This year, some of Pivot's primary competitors (Intense, Santa Cruz and Yeti) have come out with bikes that are cutting edge but also have changes that are responsive to customer/rider feedback.

    Time will tell.

  66. #66
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    Any word if this will fit 29x2.6 tires?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    I canít recall saying that it did, but thereís a detailed FAQ on the Pivot site that goes into the benefits if youíre genuinely interested?
    I've read the marketing, you're the one that attributed the SB being a great clyde bike to SuperTrooperBoost. Which makes it sound like a frame can't be made stiff with Spurdooperboost- which we all know is silly.
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    I did a quick google search for a super boost rear hub and came back with zero hubs...

    Who makes these things and can you actually buy them?

  69. #69
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I've read the marketing, you're the one that attributed the SB being a great clyde bike to SuperTrooperBoost. Which makes it sound like a frame can't be made stiff with Spurdooperboost- which we all know is silly.
    I think youíre the one being silly here. I specifically did not attribute SuperBoost being the one factor responsible for the Switchblade being a great Clyde bike. If youíre trying to get a raise from someone on this then youíll have to try harder with somebody else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sml-2727 View Post
    Any word if this will fit 29x2.6 tires?
    According to Pink bikeís review it can use 29x2.6Ē tires and 27.5x3.1Ē tires.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
    Nailed it!

    I'm a big fan of the Pivot brand. Hopefully this is not a sign of past success building a culture of arrogance. Look back through any of the threads discussing speculation about changes to the 429 Trail and I guarantee you will not find anyone calling for Super Boost and begging Pivot to keep the PF92. This year, some of Pivot's primary competitors (Intense, Santa Cruz and Yeti) have come out with bikes that are cutting edge but also have changes that are responsive to customer/rider feedback.

    Time will tell.
    Scroll to the bottom of the FAQs. They knew Pinkbike readers (and thus everyone else) would not like it. Then why go forward with it at all? Pivot was slow to adopt longer reach. Pivot was slow to adopt steeper seat tube angles. Pivot was slow to move ahead with bikes with just a 1X. They keep insisting on using the angleset cup instead of a flip chip. They are insistent on the PF BB., and they are just sticking to this super boost nonsense. Segment your market Pivot. For starters what are the behaviors your target customer exhibits? Do many have multiple wheelsets or have already built wheelsets? Then donít offer another hub standard, and offer frame only options. Why purposely cross off a good chunk of your market like that?

    My Firebird, a bike that at least on paper may benefit from super boost, does not have super boost, I am 200 pounds (210 kitted) and have never felt a need for super boost, nor have I read a single review that it lacked that. I have a Hightower, standard boost, and never felt like the bike needed more stiffness and havenít read any reviews that stated the HT needs more stiffness. Seems like Pivot are manufacturing bikes with features, and not necessarily fulfilling user needs.

    I do recall some reviews about the 429 Trail being flexy in the rear end, but for the most part, the bike was a hit and most people could care less.

    Pivot, donít chase windmills.

  72. #72
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    Now we are talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Reminiscing about simpler times...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A quote from pivotís FAQS page. It seems arrogant and that they donít care what their customers think. Well I am a pivot owner and will vote with my wallet.

    Maybe I will send them a smug copy of the Ibis or Evil recite when I buy a bike this summer...

    ďDid you just design Super Boost Plus to give all the commenters on Pinkbike something to talk about?

    Yes and no. We do love being the topic of conversation but the realize is that Super Boost Plus will make you a better rider. When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, you'll think: "I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. And gosh darn it, people like me!" You and your Trail 429 will be able to manual for DAYS and you will look amazing while doing it. That leads to more confidence and a confident person is a happy person. Happy people tend to do nice things for other and happy people that ride the Pivot Trail 429 with Super Boost Plus are the happiest people on the trail. So, that my friends, is how Super Boost Plus will make you a better person.Ē

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    It's funny even the follow or die company went back to threaded BBs.
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  75. #75
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    Some of you dudes take this stuff WAY too personally. While Iím sure theyíre not pooping on YOU personally, the company has no responsibility to take engineering input from its customer base. Just like the customer has no responsibility to buy a product that he/she doesnít like.

    Boom. Problem solved.

    No dog in this fight. I donít own a Pivot, donít work for Pivot and not in the market for a Pivot.

    I would note that my SB with 157 spacing was far and away the stiffest 29er Iíve owned or ridden. I didnít like the bike otherwise, but credit where due. 157 is likely the standard the industry should have moved toward instead of Boost, but thatís not the way it worked out. And, of course, if you need to build a wheel, any commonly available 157 hub will work just fine.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    A quote from pivotís FAQS page. It seems arrogant and that they donít care what their customers think. Well I am a pivot owner and will vote with my wallet.

    Maybe I will send them a smug copy of the Ibis or Evil recite when I buy a bike this summer...

    ďDid you just design Super Boost Plus to give all the commenters on Pinkbike something to talk about?

    Yes and no. We do love being the topic of conversation but the realize is that Super Boost Plus will make you a better rider. When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, you'll think: "I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. And gosh darn it, people like me!" You and your Trail 429 will be able to manual for DAYS and you will look amazing while doing it. That leads to more confidence and a confident person is a happy person. Happy people tend to do nice things for other and happy people that ride the Pivot Trail 429 with Super Boost Plus are the happiest people on the trail. So, that my friends, is how Super Boost Plus will make you a better person.Ē
    Personally, I find this tongue in cheek content to be quite fun. We all know the Pinkbike community loves to respond to anything ďdifferentĒ and everything that looks the same as something else already on the market. If a bike company canít poke a little fun, whatís the world coming to?


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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    Personally, I find this tongue in cheek content to be quite fun. We all know the Pinkbike community loves to respond to anything ďdifferentĒ and everything that looks the same as something else already on the market. If a bike company canít poke a little fun, whatís the world coming to?


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    You are sort of missing the point.

    Any company selling a product or service should develop said product or service using a very deliberate process called (you guessed it) the product development process. The beginning of that involves gathering / documenting user requirements. Then design / manufacture the product people want. Don't build the product you want and then "hope" people buy it. Hope is not a good product development strategy. Another thing to avoid is to minimize "workarounds" for aspects of the product. For example if the intent was to increase profit margin (nothing wrong with this by the way) by using a cheaper carbon layup for the Trail429 that has more flex, don't use Super Boost Plus (SBP) as a "band aid" to regain stiffness or to speed up development time.

    It is clear from the Pinkbike part of the FAQs that they KNOW SBP is not popular and not seen as a net positive to the vast majority of potential customers. So why move ahead with R/D spend / time / people to implement a feature that is not a user requirement?

    I would suggest that potential purchasers of Pivot bikes have the following characteristics:

    They are sophisticated in their knowledge of mountain bikes. Therefore they know the differences between PF BB vs. Threaded, DW Link vs. VPP vs. FSR, etc.
    They have means to purchase 4,000 - 9,000 bikes
    They probably own more than one bike
    Many are likely to have their own wheels built
    They understand the benefits of modern geometry
    They ride 3+ times a week weather permitting (i.e., not just weekend warriors)

    You can see the picture I am painting here is this is a smaller market within the overall MTB available market. This is why you (Pivot) needs to build EXACTLY what this group wants, otherwise, they will simply choose another manufacturer. In other words, the only way to grow the business is a) offer a superior bike to this subset of customers or b) offer bikes to different, less sophisticated segments (which I would argue would tarnish the brand image).

    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    the company has no responsibility to take engineering input from its customer base. Just like the customer has no responsibility to buy a product that he/she doesnít like.

    Boom. Problem solved.
    Blockbuster, Kodak, Blackberry, K-Mart and Sears all agree.

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    Why are guys so vested in this subject?

    So you don't like the new 429 Trail?

    Okay, don't buy it.

    Move along folks, nothing to see here.

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    This whole discussion cracks me up. Like one poster said, if you donít like it, donít buy it. Every company takes risks (at least the good ones). Do you think every person with an iPhone was sitting around back in 2007 hoping someone would come out with a high end touch screen phone? Were they hoping they would put a proprietary charge cord on it? Did Apple ask all their users if they wanted to have the headphone jack removed?

    Companies take chances, thatís their job. Sometimes they win, sometimes they donít, but thatís their problem (unless you are a shareholder).

    I personally donít mind superboost, I buy a bike and use the wheels that come on it.

    Just my 2 cents.


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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    Why are guys so vested in this subject?

    So you don't like the new 429 Trail?

    Okay, don't buy it.

    Move along folks, nothing to see here.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmossbarger View Post
    This whole discussion cracks me up. Like one poster said, if you donít like it, donít buy it. Every company takes risks (at least the good ones). Do you think every person with an iPhone was sitting around back in 2007 hoping someone would come out with a high end touch screen phone? Were they hoping they would put a proprietary charge cord on it? Did Apple ask all their users if they wanted to have the headphone jack removed?

    Companies take chances, thatís their job. Sometimes they win, sometimes they donít, but thatís their problem (unless you are a shareholder).

    I personally donít mind superboost, I buy a bike and use the wheels that come on it.

    Just my 2 cents.


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    So why bother discussing anything, why have this website?
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    It would be different if you could even buy a super boost hub. I donít see them anyway where for sale, correct me if I am wrong.

    If you use a ďstandardĒ 157mm hub instead of SB+ and 6mm offset cranks would that not mess up the chain line a bit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So why bother discussing anything, why have this website?
    It is one thing to say hey I don't like it and give reasons why, it is another to get into the minutia regarding marketing, engineering and not taking customer feedback as if anyone here is qualified to run a bike manufacturing business. Nobody here knows how Pivot came up with this design.

    For all we know it could be a hit, or a turd, but for guys here to say they know more than Pivot?

    Full disclosure, I rode the older version 429 Trail last week and it is just not for me.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    You are sort of missing the point.

    Any company selling a product or service should develop said product or service using a very deliberate process called (you guessed it) the product development process. The beginning of that involves gathering / documenting user requirements. Then design / manufacture the product people want. Don't build the product you want and then "hope" people buy it. Hope is not a good product development strategy. Another thing to avoid is to minimize "workarounds" for aspects of the product. For example if the intent was to increase profit margin (nothing wrong with this by the way) by using a cheaper carbon layup for the Trail429 that has more flex, don't use Super Boost Plus (SBP) as a "band aid" to regain stiffness or to speed up development time.

    It is clear from the Pinkbike part of the FAQs that they KNOW SBP is not popular and not seen as a net positive to the vast majority of potential customers. So why move ahead with R/D spend / time / people to implement a feature that is not a user requirement?

    I would suggest that potential purchasers of Pivot bikes have the following characteristics:

    They are sophisticated in their knowledge of mountain bikes. Therefore they know the differences between PF BB vs. Threaded, DW Link vs. VPP vs. FSR, etc.
    They have means to purchase 4,000 - 9,000 bikes
    They probably own more than one bike
    Many are likely to have their own wheels built
    They understand the benefits of modern geometry
    They ride 3+ times a week weather permitting (i.e., not just weekend warriors)

    You can see the picture I am painting here is this is a smaller market within the overall MTB available market. This is why you (Pivot) needs to build EXACTLY what this group wants, otherwise, they will simply choose another manufacturer. In other words, the only way to grow the business is a) offer a superior bike to this subset of customers or b) offer bikes to different, less sophisticated segments (which I would argue would tarnish the brand image).

    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...
    I donít think Iím missing the point at all. While I do agree with portions of your philosophy, a lot of it is opinion based when it comes to a business plan. I also disagree with regard to your assessment of the average Pivot customer. While the description you give is certainly part of that consumer group, there are a significant number of buyers that sit outside of that bubble.

    Whether you or I agree with it or not, Pivot is willing to take a risk on technologies that are not yet popular in the mainstream. This may prove to be a mistake, or they may later be seen as being ahead of their time. We just donít know. There are a number of people in the industry that have said that the Boost standard was a half measure that didnít really offer significant gains, either in frame stiffness, wheel strength, or tire clearance. Plenty also said that the industry should have just moved all the way to 157, a standard that was already in place. Who knows where the industry will end up, but itís interesting to watch.

    Iím torn with regard to the SBP aspect of the Trail, and the SB for that matter. Iím more disappointed that there is no frame only option for either bike though. Iíll hold off on judging the bike until Iíve ridden it.


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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    Iíll hold off on judging the bike until Iíve ridden it.


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    Now THAT is total crazy talk...
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    It would be different if you could even buy a super boost hub. I donít see them anyway where for sale, correct me if I am wrong.

    If you use a ďstandardĒ 157mm hub instead of SB+ and 6mm offset cranks would that not mess up the chain line a bit?
    You can get effectively the same thing as Super Boost in the SRAM X0 hub. I *think* you can from Onyx and I9 too. DT-Swiss does not yet make the hubs available separately AFAIK.

    Cassette position doesn't change from Super Boost to standard 157. Basically, on standard 157 hubs, there is usually a lot of unused space between the non-driveside spoke flange and the brake mount. Super Boost moves the spoke flange out to fill that space and increase the flange-to-flange width.

    Yours truly,

    Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
    NOAH SEARS
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  87. #87
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    I just think the bike is just too heavy. Damn boat anchor at 6.5lbs. Then they suck with press-fit BB when even the evil "S" is going threaded? Seems off the mark. I would love to replace my aluminum 5010 with a 29er, but not at 30+lbs, pressfit BB and crazy rear wheel spacing. No not worth it.
    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    ...Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
    .
    NO WAY!!! This is a totally new standard....Thereís no was you did this and didnít perish

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    It is one thing to say hey I don't like it and give reasons why, it is another to get into the minutia regarding marketing, engineering and not taking customer feedback as if anyone here is qualified to run a bike manufacturing business. Nobody here knows how Pivot came up with this design.

    For all we know it could be a hit, or a turd, but for guys here to say they know more than Pivot?

    Full disclosure, I rode the older version 429 Trail last week and it is just not for me.
    What he said.. hereís why I canít wait to try it:

    1. Iíve ridden the SB and loved it....but it was a lot of bike for not so mountainy Delaware.

    2. The SB was STIFF. As a strong, big dude (225 with gear), I like that.

    3. I own ZERO sets of BOOST wheels, so 157 is cool with me. Especially if what Noah says is true 😉.

    4. Ive liked DW and havenít liked VPP or Horst. I look forward to trying the TB3, Smuggler, and Trail and compare to see how they compare.

    5. Demod the 429 and didnít like it. It was cramped for my monkey arms and a little too steep (Iíd like to try 27.5 cup with 29 wheels bc Iím not too concerned with B.B. height).

    6. Warranty: 10 yrs is pretty darn good (Iíd compare it to lifetime e for sure).

    Iím hoping itís a mini-Switchblade. My hearts with Transition and the TB3 looks good too, but if it is a mini-SB, Itíd be a awfully tough choice.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...
    I haven't seen any "reviews" of the bike yet, just quick first takes. As far as I know, some journalists gathered in Moab and did a single ride on the bike. Hardly enough time spent to do an honest review.

    To me, it kinda feels like everyone wants every bike to feel the same. They want the 6" bike that pedals like cross-country bike and the cross-country bike that descends like a demon. Pivot offers a complete line of bikes, and admittedly, at first glance it kinda seems overcrowded. But, if you've had the chance to ride many of them (I'm lucky that I have), you'd see they each have different personalities.

    The Trail wouldn't be my first pick to ride the Portal, but I'd much rather have it than the Switchblade for all of Mag 7 and the climb up Blue Dot (the proceeding sections on that route)! So, yeah, I'd pick it for that whole ride. If I could ride the Trail on upper Mag, my 429sl up Blue Dot, and grab my Firebird for the trip down Portal, I would. But you've gotta pick a bike that will work best for the whole ride. I suspect they chose the route they took for the launch in order to show the journalists how the bike handle a variety of terrain. It's unfortunate that the editors mostly talked about how it handled just the roughest part. They should've come to Fruita.
    NOAH SEARS
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I just think the bike is just too heavy. Damn boat anchor at 6.5lbs.
    Are there ~120mm 29ers that weight much less? I think the Yeti 4.5s are close to 6 lbs. Evil Following MBs are 6.5 WITHOUT shock. SC Tallboy 3 is user-reported at 5.94 lbs. Transition Smuggler Carbon is 6.7 ibs. IIRC.

    Maybe on the heavier side, but boat anchor is bit dramatic.
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  91. #91
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    I think the actual "mistake" in the industry was adopting the Boost standard for Trail / AM bikes, not Pivot going with 157. Easier said when you don't own a high-buck set of Boost trail wheels though.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Are there ~120mm 29ers that weight much less? I think the Yeti 4.5s are close to 6 lbs. Evil Following MBs are 6.5 WITHOUT shock. SC Tallboy 3 is user-reported at 5.94 lbs. Transition Smuggler Carbon is 6.7 ibs. IIRC.

    Maybe on the heavier side, but boat anchor is bit dramatic.
    Wouldnít it have been better for Pivot to simply make bike 120mm / 130mm, flip chip, 1X only, longer reach, steeper STA, and lighter than 429 Trail and call it a day? So far, you or others are not really advocating for super boost plus. You seem to just tolerate it. Canít really see benefit of this hub standard on a 120mm trail bike and so far you havenít mentioned any benefits either.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    .
    NO WAY!!! This is a totally new standard....Thereís no was you did this and didnít perish
    Where is anyone saying it is? We know wtf it is. Now to the point find me a ton of 120mm travel bikes that are wet noddles and need it.

    Also link me to the articles that show having the wider hub spacing makes for a stronger frame not wheel?

    I'm no light weight and I didn't notice my rear wheel being any stiffer when I went from 142 to 150 then back to 148. I get it in a lab it's X% stiffer but if you have a properly built wheels I doubt you see a difference when riding a 120mm bike.
    Tallboy 3.1
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    Have been looking at Pivot quite seriously for my wife and was very excited to see the 429Trail released. Unfortunately, at less than 120lb she will derive no benefit from super boost plus, a 1700g+ wheelset, a 6.5lb frame, and a non-step-cast fork. This frame should just barely cross the 5lb mark. There seem to be two possibilities - vastly overbuilt or made with inferior carbon relative to other brands. Unfortunately, I'm quite disappointed with this. There's always the Mach 4, but no 29 option there.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Wouldnít it have been better for Pivot to simply make bike 120mm / 130mm, flip chip, 1X only, longer reach, steeper STA, and lighter than 429 Trail and call it a day? So far, you or others are not really advocating for super boost plus. You seem to just tolerate it. Canít really see benefit of this hub standard on a 120mm trail bike and so far you havenít mentioned any benefits either.
    Yeah, I tolerate it. I trust that Pivot did the number crunching during development and decided this was the best choice for their design goals. I've known Chris for 12 years and the designer Kevin for about as long. They know way more than I do about frame design. They've sold me on benefits and I've loved my Switchblade.

    As for benefits I've personally enjoyed with SB+ that aren't advertised? I've used Shimano Boost and non-Boost cranks on the Switchblade (50.4 and 53.4mm chainlines) which paired with the cassette location used with 157 spacing gives me a SICK chainline. You are limited with chainring size doing this, but with SRAM 10-42t (or 50t) or e13 9-46t cassettes you rarely need more top-end.

    I've been riding Enve wheels with standard 157 hubs (plenty stiff), but I could use alloy rims and SB+ hubs and get a notably stiffer wheel than is possible with 12x148. Nice perk if I want it.

    I just think it's silly to rule out a bike because it's NINE MILLIMETERS WIDER IN THE REAR.

    FWIW, I get the dissatisfaction with not offering a frame-only option. But, I'll probably be buying a complete for my wife and swapping the parts over with her Switchblade and selling it with new build - so it's unusually convenient for us (replacing a bike with all the same critical standard dimensions).

    Not trying to argue. Have a great weekend!
    NOAH SEARS
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post

    Yours truly,

    Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    That's what Pivot is asking the rest of its customer base that doesn't want the stock wheels or other parts to do. It's ridiculous.

    Everyone understands it's not a new standard and there are lots of aftermarket options, either with standard DH spacing or the few SPB hubs available for purchase. The problem is the stratospheric cost and hassle associated with buying a high end bike and then having to dump half of it to build the bike you want to ride.

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    That's what Pivot is asking the rest of its customer base that doesn't want the stock wheels or other parts to do. It's ridiculous.

    Everyone understands it's not a new standard and there are lots of aftermarket options, either with standard DH spacing or the few SPB hubs available for purchase. The problem is the stratospheric cost and hassle associated with buying a high end bike and then having to dump half of it to build the bike you want to ride.

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.
    Great question. Also - the SBP hubs make it harder for Pivot to acquire customers from other manufacturers. Say I am a Tallboy owner and really dig the Trail429. But also say I invested in carbon wheels for my TB with standard boost spacing. Many would prefer to sell their frame only and acquire a frame only, reusing their current carbon rims. Having to then ALSO rebuild a rear wheel throws the economics off. Thatís why NINE MILLIMETERS becomes an issue.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Where is anyone saying it is? We know wtf it is.
    Actually, btwn here and Pinkbike there are a shit-ton of people bemoaning the WHOLE NEW STANDARD know as 157 as though the earth is gonna end. So it appears that thereís plenty of folks who donít get it.

    As far as noodles, I donít think anyone has referred to modern bikes as noodles. But plenty of people have commented on the flex of the old 429. And a number of reviewers have noted flex in both the Sniper and the new SB100.

    Just sayin
    Last edited by smartyiak; 05-18-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.
    Fair question. My wife and I do get discounted bikes from Pivot and that enables us to have more of them and use our own funds to travel to and from races. I also work with Enve on the product development side so my wheel cost is greatly reduced (though I do generally pay for hubs). And yeah, forks are effectively free (to a limited extent) since I'm the Brand Manager for MRP. So I don't have the same money invested in my builds as Joe Public - fully acknowledged.

    I already acknowledged that I understand the dissatisfaction with having to buy a complete. I like to build my bikes from the ground up. But that's a business decision Pivot has made and I can't fault them for that. I imagine it's hard for bike companies to forecast build kit demands, so at least knowing they'll sell as many build kits as frames for awhile helps.

    I'd write more but I gotta go to a race!

    Have a good weekend!
    Last edited by NoahColorado; 05-18-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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    Saw a blue 29er I my shop today. Clean looking bike. But I just donít get the super boost either. Not on a bike that is gonna be used to race. Riders are gonna want to go with upgraded wheels.

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