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  1. #1
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    Pivot Trail 429

    A new Pivot release is imminent. The ďTrail 429Ē is now showing on Pivotís site under both the ďXC/TrailĒ and ďEnduro/TrailĒ categories. The link is not working yet. Guessing that will change in the next day or two!

    My guess is 140f/120r, with updated geometry, consistent with Pivotís other ďnewĒ bikes.



    Edit: Itís here! https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-...irst-ride.html
    Last edited by ReXTless; 05-17-2018 at 05:09 AM.

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    The 429t has always been in both categories on the site and I till see them there---no change--

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    Sixth sense tells me that it's coming within days.

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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    The 429t has always been in both categories on the site and I till see them there---no change--
    Yes, the ďMach 429 TrailĒ has always been there in both categories. What is new is the addition of the ďTrail 429Ē, which appears below the ďMach 429 TrailĒ.

  5. #5
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    Not seeing the Trail 429 now on their site. Must have been a teaser. Sub 17" chainstays?? 120-130r? 66* HA? Gonna be sweet..
    Sweet Jesus don't let the judge release me, what if she's a Zombie or a Dracula and tries to f&*king eat me.

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    Just to compare the geometry to my Switchblade as Iím sure others will be interested too.





    Iíd have liked to see more reach and a steeper seat tube angle along with the use of the Step Cast 34, but it looks a fantastic bike. I like the fact it has a higher B.B., very useful in this part of the world!




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    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.

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    Subbing. What a great time to be in the market for a Trail bike!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    Frame weight 6.4lbs according to Pinkbike.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-tr...irst-ride.html

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    I like the frame geo for sure. Bummed about no frame only option at this time. Reviews have been luke warm though. I just don't feel the excitement by the reviewers. Also they seem to not like the square edge and firmness of the suspension as most have spent time taking about it and actually pointing it out. Looks very Following MB to me. It will be interesting to see how it performs in our real world and the comparisons. However I like what I see so far.

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    Last edited by bogeydog; 05-17-2018 at 04:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    Agreed on the super boost. Otherwise it looks good.

  13. #13
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    Nice looking bike. Superboost Plus and no frame-only option take it off the list for me though.

    Could be a home run for those who want complete bikes, instead of custom builds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Wow, nice specs on the new Trail, and the frame looks great- very similar to the 5.5. In fact, the dimensions are nearly exactly the same as the 5.5. Super boost compatibility with cranks looks like it's going to be an issue- hope the benefits outweigh the hassle. Can't wait to see what the frame weighs. Now they need to do the same spec makeover to the 429SL, and I'll be first in line to upgrade my frame.
    No you won't no frame only option- silly Pivot you custom builders don't know how to build bikes properly.

    From the MTBR post on it "Pivot wants to control the build kits to ensure the frames are built up with compatible components"

    Honestly glad I didn't wait and ordered a TB3, they screw up the SL as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    Agreed on the super boost. Otherwise it looks good.
    I donít get it. Longer chainstays and less tire clearance compared to the Switchblade. And, no front derailleur compatibility either. Those were the three things Pivot said it gained by moving to Superboost plus on the Switchblade. So, why did they do it? Stiffness?

    Most other companies can make a bike with adequate weight and stiffness properties without resorting to overkill rear spacing. Theyíre trading build flexibility, frame-only availability, and heel/ankle/shoe clearance for dubious stiffness gains.

    I was ready to buy a frame at launch, assuming both availability and positive ride reviews. Appears the bike is falling short on both accounts. Their gamble of taking the first batch of reviewers on Mag 7 w/Portal backfired. Hereís my reading between the lines of the early reviews - ďWait! You want me to ride THIS? Down THAT?Ē

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    Looks fine but really not that interesting.
    It's not that different compared to SB in terms of geometry either.

    Metric shock is fine but they could've used trunnion mount and incresed the stroke, as it is now - 45mm stroke for 120mm travel is a bit old school when most companies are using longer shocks to get smoother feeling rear end and decrease leverage ratio.

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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by MarinCRO View Post
    Looks fine but really not that interesting.
    It's not that different compared to SB in terms of geometry either.

    Metric shock is fine but they could've used trunnion mount and incresed the stroke, as it is now - 45mm stroke for 120mm travel is a bit old school when most companies are using longer shocks to get smoother feeling rear end and decrease leverage ratio.
    Agree. In addition, short stroke causes issues for heavier riders. Itís much tougher to find the sweet spot during setup when you have a billion psi in the shock.

  18. #18
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Huge pivot fan but Iím disappointed in the use of super boost. Makes custom builds and using boost wheel sets that I already have impossible. I think itís big strategic mistake by Pivot.

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    So glad I didn't wait for this update. I'm not a weight weenie but how did you make a frame that weighs almost a pound more than than the Mach 5.5??

    Also, SuperBoostPlus

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    Super boost plus - nay.

    Super short shock stroke - nay again.

    Everything else looks great to me. Better looks, not super-fragile lightweight, BB height reasonable for people that pedal.

    Bummer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Frame weight 6.4lbs according to Pinkbike.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pivot-tr...irst-ride.html
    Too heavy. Deal killer.

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    oh well...

    looks like the Sniper stays at the top of my list for now...
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  23. #23
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    Super boost isnít a deal breaker for me, but no frame only option or Di2 support is.

  24. #24
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    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Pivot Trail 429-pivot_trail429_francis-0503-1024x682.jpg
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Click image for larger version. 

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    Size and total weight for the bike you rode?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My report!!!!

    Pivot Trail 429 first ride - Mtbr.com

    Ask me anything. Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice write-up, FC! Any info on the dpx2 upcharge?

    Also, which current 29er trail bike do you think is most-similar to the Trail 429?

    How does the rear suspension feel compared against the old M429T and the Switchblade?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Too heavy. Deal killer.
    Thatís Med WITH shock....not sure what youíre looking for in a trailbike. Iím sure the next gen 429SL will weigh less.

    I like the idea of 157. But I wonder if they used it here as a means to gain more acceptability? Maybe as Pivot updates models....more and more Pivots with 157 means more and more demand???

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooly88 View Post
    Huge pivot fan but Iím disappointed in the use of super boost. Makes custom builds and using boost wheel sets that I already have impossible. I think itís big strategic mistake by Pivot.
    Agreed. This is why I never bought a switch blade

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    Pivot Trail 429-2agqsv.jpg

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    I'm a fan of Pivot. I like that they are local to AZ and my favorite bike shop carries them. However, they are becoming less attractive to me.

    Superboost is a deal breaker as I like to switch between 29 and 27+ and I don't want to have to build a new wheelset.

    I'm 6'5" so I'm always looking for big bikes. There XL bikes have always been on the small side. While they have increased the reach, but still short for tall guys, the stack got slammed. Why too small for me now. I don't know how they think someone 6'7" can fit on a XL.

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    near what i had hoped for

    I do not care if it is 157 as I do not change wheels---so fine for me.
    Like the new GEO numbers---just where I wanted.

    But would have liked to see 130 and not 120 so the bike could be plusher.

    It is odd they released on a trail not that well suited for a 130/120 bike from anyone---seems odd and the reviewers are saying so.

    Is it enough for me to buy given I have the current bike-----time will tell in the next few months---

    I think I am between this bike and an Intense Primer---have not ridden that bike but ;looks good from feedback and the GEO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyham View Post
    I'm a fan of Pivot. I like that they are local to AZ and my favorite bike shop carries them. However, they are becoming less attractive to me.

    Superboost is a deal breaker as I like to switch between 29 and 27+ and I don't want to have to build a new wheelset.

    I'm 6'5" so I'm always looking for big bikes. There XL bikes have always been on the small side. While they have increased the reach, but still short for tall guys, the stack got slammed. Why too small for me now. I don't know how they think someone 6'7" can fit on a XL.
    All great points!

    I don't understand Pivot and their thinking on this new frame.

    -No Frame only option
    -Super Boost
    -Guys over 6'3" will still probably look elsewhere
    -No "flip chip" in the frame to quickly change between 29er and 27+. You still must swap out the bottom cup of the headset
    -Heavy
    -PF92*
    -Cable under the BB*

    * I could care less about these issues, but both have been constantly complained about with the old frame.

    Edited to add- I do think the colors and graphics are a move in the right direction vs. Pivots of the past. At least they got that right.
    Last edited by 410sprint; 05-18-2018 at 12:49 AM.

  33. #33
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    I love every inch of it. Can't wait to get one!

    Been praying for a bike to bridge the gap between the Switchblade and 429sl, and this is precisely that. This thing is gonna be a KOM murder weapon. The Switchblade punched well above it's weight on the descents, but never shined on sustained climbs or felt super snappy. Granted, you could climb anything though (very planted, but maneuverable). The 429sl is/was the opposite, it gets up and goes! But the short reach and tall bar height required some workarounds to get its demeanor comfortable for shredding. That said, I'm actually really happy with it at the moment with a +5mm reach headset and -25ļ 70mm stem for XC racing.

    Let the good times roll!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I love every inch of it. Can't wait to get one!

    Been praying for a bike to bridge the gap between the Switchblade and 429sl, and this is precisely that. This thing is gonna be a KOM murder weapon. The Switchblade punched well above it's weight on the descents, but never shined on sustained climbs or felt super snappy. Granted, you could climb anything though (very planted, but maneuverable). The 429sl is/was the opposite, it gets up and goes! But the short reach and tall bar height required some workarounds to get its demeanor comfortable for shredding. That said, I'm actually really happy with it at the moment with a +5mm reach headset and -25ļ 70mm stem for XC racing.

    Let the good times roll!
    Whenís the big reveal Noah? I noticed youíve got yourself some new bars and sold the SB!!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Whenís the big reveal Noah? I noticed youíve got yourself some new bars and sold the SB!!
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.

    Here's what I have so far:
    - MRP Ribbon (air) 130mm
    - SRAM X01 11-speed drivetrain with XX1 Gripshift (went with 11 vs 12 for weight).
    - Enve M730 rims with DT 350 hubs
    - Magura MT-7 Trail Carbon brakes 180/180
    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    - Enve M7 40mm rise carbon handlebar and 35mm stem. 35mm bar diameter.

    I honestly knew very little about this bike until this morning. They were very tight lipped about it! Love the specs and colors.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.

    Here's what I have so far:
    - MRP Ribbon (air) 130mm
    - SRAM X01 11-speed drivetrain with XX1 Gripshift (went with 11 vs 12 for weight).
    - Enve M730 rims with DT 350 hubs
    - Magura MT-7 Trail Carbon brakes 180/180
    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    - Enve M7 40mm rise carbon handlebar and 35mm stem. 35mm bar diameter.

    I honestly knew very little about this bike until this morning. They were very tight lipped about it! Love the specs and colors.
    I can vouch that the One Up is a fantastic dropper, Iíve been using one on my Les since they launched and Iíve been very impressed with it. Anyway surely MRP have a dropper post in development by now?!

    Your build sounds great, I also went with 11 Speed XX1 over Eagle on my Les for the same reasons.

    Looking forward to seeing your bike when youíve built it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    I donít get it. Longer chainstays and less tire clearance compared to the Switchblade. And, no front derailleur compatibility either. Those were the three things Pivot said it gained by moving to Superboost plus on the Switchblade. So, why did they do it? Stiffness?
    Yeah, that surprised me. When they launched Superboost on the Switchblade, the front derailleur compatibility combined with short chainstays and clearance for huge tires was the reason they gave - basically, they said they could only pick two of the three with Boost, so they made Superboost. If they've dropped the front derailleur, it makes no sense to keep it - plenty of bikes manage short chainstays and clearance for plus tires with normal Boost.

    The weight is frustrating too - a pound heavier than the claimed weight of the Mach 5.5 for a smaller, less burly bike. In fact, it's not any lighter than the old model - I just looked through my old posts and my medium 429T frame+shock was 6.3 lbs without the rear axle. It does look like they've kept the lower prices relative to the other models, so maybe they're still using the lower-modulus carbon (which was one of the reasons they gave for the old one being heavier), but they're not as low as they once were - the Pro X01 build is $300 more, Pro XT is $100 more, the Race kits are $500 more, Team XTR is $200 more, and Team XX1 is $500 more. For that big of a price jump on most models, I'd rather they just raised the pricing to the same level as their other bikes and gone for a lighter frame.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have one yet! Not sure when mine will arrive. I have just about all the parts. Trying some new things on this build, like SRAM drivetrain (with Gripshift!) and Magura brakes. Torn between a 9point8, OneUp, BikeYoke, or KS Lev Ci seatpost.
    I've been very happy with my Magura Trail Sports - the Trail Carbons were a little too rich for my blood (and I prefer the shorter lever on the Sport), but they do have some nice bling factor with the polished calipers. I'm trying the OneUp dropper on my new build, but it's not all here yet, so no ride reports. Build quality seems pretty good out of the box though.

    - Shimano XTR Boost crankset with 34t ring (hoping they'll fit so I can use my current Stages power meter)
    Based on Pivot's FAQ, that might be a bit dicey. Q-factor should be fine, but the chain line won't be ideal. Shimano's boost cranks have a 53.5mm chain line, and Pivot recommends 56mm.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by coleam View Post
    (and I prefer the shorter lever on the Sport)
    Yeah, I think I messed up there. I will probably want the 1-finger levers, but I'll try these first. Might go for the HC3 levers in the end, for the adjustability.


    Quote Originally Posted by coleam View Post
    Based on Pivot's FAQ, that might be a bit dicey. Q-factor should be fine, but the chain line won't be ideal. Shimano's boost cranks have a 53.5mm chain line, and Pivot recommends 56mm.
    Yeah, but I run non-Boost XTR on my 429sl (34t oval), Boost SLX on my Switchblade (32t oval), and non-Boost XT on my Firebird (34t round). So I'm hoping something from Shimano fits since I have power meters. We shall see!

    Honestly the tighter the chainline you can get away with, the better it is for chain wear.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
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    The more I think about it, the more I'm bummed about yet another damn wheel change..and that Pivot deserves a bunch of crap for leading the way.

    I just posted this from a recent Bike rumor piece on the superboost thread, and will share it here too...at least someone is talking some sense about this

    Stanís Notubes: letís pause and think about what riders really need
    "Our hope is that if we all get to 157x12mm, we all stay there," said Chris Currie, creative director at Stan's.

    "We should all be doing more to put the consumer first, and having four wheelsets in your garage that can't swap between bikes might not be improving the bike-ownership experience.

    "Maybe there's a whole level of what people want out of bicycles that none of us have really figured out yet, but just based on my own experience, I wouldn't say 'convenience' is anywhere in our collective vocabulary. This might be a side-effect of our constant need to sell 10 bikes to one rider instead of bringing new riders into the equation."

    https://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gea...s-going-51686/
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    Damn.

    The now old 429tr had one problem, geometry. Seat angle so slack I couldn't get seat forward enough, seat tubes and head tubes too tall for each size (i.e. a bit short reach/size). Otherwise would have been my perfect trail bike and many others too.

    The geometry on the new model looks ok, just wish they would have kept reach on sizes a bit less than the switchblade (they basically have the same geo which is very odd in my opinion, why not let the trail be a bit more trail-oriented on the geometry-side of things when there is the switchblade for those who want high-speed friendly geo). Also, I think that when lengthening the front center, you need longer CS, short CS+long reach creates imbalance.

    Disappointed on the super boost though, bikes are plenty stiff and wheels are plenty stiff without it. For me, that's a deciding factor. Would have bought a Switchblade, but I decided I don't want super boost (heel clearance, Q-factor bad for knees, uneven spoke tensions etc.). That's why I won't buy their new trail 429 either.

    Internal cable routing is fine for cables but why can't manufacturers route the brake hose on top of the downtube? Would be great.

  42. #42
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    Pivot Trail 429

    I didnít see this much SuperBoost negativity when the Alchemy was released.


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  43. #43
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    I very much don't want to come off as negative here, but I am really disappointed. I have owned many Pivots (including the original Mach 429 Trail, Mach 429 Carbon, 2 Mach 6's and a 2017 FireBird I still have) and as a professional marketer I am baffled by Pivots' approach here.

    It seems like they are trying to solve problems that their customers don't perceive as such, and then working around these issues with other feats of engineering - OR - trying to find more ways to increase their margins by decreasing cost of goods. My hunch is its got to be the last issue as I wouldn't be able to understand wasting R/D expenses trying to achieve a user requirement that isn't strong as say longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, etc. For example, have they done heavy market analysis that shows where frame stiffness ranks for a user requirement on a light duty trail bike, and if this requirement is the same as say an Enduro / DH bike? I hate to say it, but there is nothing this really has over the Santa Cruz Tallboy which is disappointing - I like to see bike manufacturers pushing the boundaries and coming up with truly innovative design - but these designs must be based on user needs, not pre conceived notions about "stiffness above all else..." etc.

    In this case, it feels like they went with a cheaper carbon layup making the frame heavier, and somehow, Cocalis et al weren't happy with the flex characteristics of the rear triangle and opted for Super Boost Plus (SBP) to make up for that. Otherwise, why on earth would you put such a wide hub (and one that wasn't a real hit with the SwitchBlade) on a light trail bike?

    What they got right:

    Colors are amazing
    Internal routing (and those that complain about the rear break hose under the BB - I don't think that is really an issue)
    Losing need to have front derailleur - shows they understand market trends
    Not having Di2 (although they could have made the hole under the downtube under the protector like Santa Cruz does it) - not many customer in this segment would require a Di2 system
    Updated geometry
    Wishbone design for rear triangle

    What they got wrong

    Super Boost Plus
    PF BB - I don't know of any rider that believes this is an asset - it is a liability and one that people (including LBS service) have to constantly deal with. I have not had one issue with my SC Hightower which has threaded. PF BB on Pivots, not so much.
    Frame weight
    Angle set caps to go from 29 to 27.5 Plus (hard to remove) - Flip chip design is better / easier

    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.

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    Still a Pivot fan. As a Clyde I like stiffness especially in the chunk. Other than the internet and 30mm spindles crammed into a too small BB, PF92 and XT or GXP has been trouble free. I donít really swap wheels between bikes so 157 is only a benefit for me unless my wheel craps out. Yes, that could ruin a highly anticipated ride. My XO hub has been very reliable. Iíll take the massive stiffness and short CS over anything else out now. I can understand why people are resistant to change especially considering the high price of mountain biking. When I was in the market for a pickup, my friends recommended Toyota based on old perceptions but tech always moves forward.


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    I was super excited since I really liked my 429Trail and the geo updates, then I saw Superboost and no frame only and decided 'nah'. I've got nice wheelsets with solid hubs and it doesn't exactly look like a ton of other manufacturers are going with super boost. It'll also make resale tougher.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Still a Pivot fan. As a Clyde I like stiffness especially in the chunk. Other than the internet and 30mm spindles crammed into a too small BB, PF92 and XT or GXP has been trouble free. I donít really swap wheels between bikes so 157 is only a benefit for me unless my wheel craps out. Yes, that could ruin a highly anticipated ride. My XO hub has been very reliable. Iíll take the massive stiffness and short CS over anything else out now. I can understand why people are resistant to change especially considering the high price of mountain biking. When I was in the market for a pickup, my friends recommended Toyota based on old perceptions but tech always moves forward.


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    I totally agree with this, Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, the Switchblade feels like a bike made for a Clyde and that was one of the deciding factors when choosing a new bike. I attribute a lot of that to the SuperBoost.

    The Trail429 looks like a fantastic bike, I would have preferred it to be a little further away from the Switchblade in terms of geometry and it would have been nice if it was a lighter weight, again to differentiate it a little more but Iím definitely interested in a test ride to compare it to my beloved SB.

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    I've moved away from Pivots recently (they didn't seem like they really cared if I was a customer or not and I always landed flat in-between Small and Medium on the newer bikes) but I was thinking I might regret not waiting for the updated 429Trail instead of buying the Ripley LS. Well, although the colors and frame design look great and they improved the geo a bunch, the Super Duper (pun intended) Boost and 6.4 pounds (at least) weight had me breathe a sigh of relief. HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5? Not to mention I'm again in between sizes; the jump from small to medium is too big on most of their bikes.
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  48. #48
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    I've moved away from Pivots recently (they didn't seem like they really cared if I was a customer or not and I always landed flat in-between Small and Medium on the newer bikes) but I was thinking I might regret not waiting for the updated 429Trail instead of buying the Ripley LS. Well, although the colors and frame design look great and they improved the geo a bunch, the Super Duper (pun intended) Boost and 6.4 pounds (at least) weight had me breathe a sigh of relief. HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5? Not to mention I'm again in between sizes; the jump from small to medium is too big on most of their bikes.
    If we assume the 5.5 has adequate stiffness for its intended purpose and weighs what we think it does, doesnít the reason for the porky frame weight on the T429 have to be lower quality carbon material/layup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    HTF can that frame be almost a pound more than the 5.5?
    Totally agree that the frame is too heavy, but FWIW, Pivot customer service told me on the phone yesterday that the 5.5 frame is 5.7 lb. for a Medium in Black, and 6.2 lb. for a Large in Red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Totally agree that the frame is too heavy, but FWIW, Pivot customer service told me on the phone yesterday that the 5.5 frame is 5.7 lb. for a Medium in Black, and 6.2 lb. for a Large in Red.
    And you believed them? They're the same ones who said the 5.5 weighed in at 429SL weights, and that 5.5 frames started at 5.2 pounds. They must have a helium machine next to their scale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    I totally agree with this, Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, the Switchblade feels like a bike made for a Clyde and that was one of the deciding factors when choosing a new bike. I attribute a lot of that to the SuperBoost.

    The Trail429 looks like a fantastic bike, I would have preferred it to be a little further away from the Switchblade in terms of geometry and it would have been nice if it was a lighter weight, again to differentiate it a little more but Iím definitely interested in a test ride to compare it to my beloved SB.
    What did superdooperboost do to make the frame stiffer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    And you believed them? They're the same ones who said the 5.5 weighed in at 429SL weights, and that 5.5 frames started at 5.2 pounds. They must have a helium machine next to their scale.
    So how do you figure that the Trail is a pound more than the 5.5? If you think they're not telling the truth about the 5.5 frame and the actual weight is north of 5.7lb to 6.2lb, you must think the Trail weighs around 7 lb.

  53. #53
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    ^^^What I think is that they fudge (lie about?) their frame/build weights to pump up the hype. Others might do it also but rarely so blatantly.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    ^^^What I think is that they fudge (lie about?) their frame/build weights to pump up the hype. Others might do it also but rarely so blatantly.
    I can say that my (previous version) 429T frame (medium) weighed in at 6.3 lbs sans rear axle hardware. I should have a 5.5 next week, but I'm not sure I'll have a chance to weigh just the frame as I bought a full build this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I very much don't want to come off as negative here, but I am really disappointed. I have owned many Pivots (including the original Mach 429 Trail, Mach 429 Carbon, 2 Mach 6's and a 2017 FireBird I still have) and as a professional marketer I am baffled by Pivots' approach here.

    It seems like they are trying to solve problems that their customers don't perceive as such, and then working around these issues with other feats of engineering - OR - trying to find more ways to increase their margins by decreasing cost of goods. My hunch is its got to be the last issue as I wouldn't be able to understand wasting R/D expenses trying to achieve a user requirement that isn't strong as say longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, etc. For example, have they done heavy market analysis that shows where frame stiffness ranks for a user requirement on a light duty trail bike, and if this requirement is the same as say an Enduro / DH bike? I hate to say it, but there is nothing this really has over the Santa Cruz Tallboy which is disappointing - I like to see bike manufacturers pushing the boundaries and coming up with truly innovative design - but these designs must be based on user needs, not pre conceived notions about "stiffness above all else..." etc.

    In this case, it feels like they went with a cheaper carbon layup making the frame heavier, and somehow, Cocalis et al weren't happy with the flex characteristics of the rear triangle and opted for Super Boost Plus (SBP) to make up for that. Otherwise, why on earth would you put such a wide hub (and one that wasn't a real hit with the SwitchBlade) on a light trail bike?

    What they got right:

    Colors are amazing
    Internal routing (and those that complain about the rear break hose under the BB - I don't think that is really an issue)
    Losing need to have front derailleur - shows they understand market trends
    Not having Di2 (although they could have made the hole under the downtube under the protector like Santa Cruz does it) - not many customer in this segment would require a Di2 system
    Updated geometry
    Wishbone design for rear triangle

    What they got wrong

    Super Boost Plus
    PF BB - I don't know of any rider that believes this is an asset - it is a liability and one that people (including LBS service) have to constantly deal with. I have not had one issue with my SC Hightower which has threaded. PF BB on Pivots, not so much.
    Frame weight
    Angle set caps to go from 29 to 27.5 Plus (hard to remove) - Flip chip design is better / easier

    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.
    This post is 100% right. I probably would buy one if it were not for super boost as the other things are less of a concern for me.

  56. #56
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    Heavy carbon frames is the reason I'm going to just buy Aluminum bikes from here on out...

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    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    At 130, there really wouldn't be anything to distinguish it from the Switchblade (135mm rear).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    I was fine with Boost 148 and could sort of see why they were using it. I can't say I'm the same with Super Boost. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much early acceptance of it either - Pivot themselves indirectly admits it in their reasoning for not selling frame only "...due to the relatively limited number of Super Boost Plus wheel options on the market, Pivot is only offering the Mach 429 as a complete bike, but that could change in the future".

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am having a flashback to all the chatter that came about on 148 boost---one would have thought the world was ending. I agree this seems not needed for a short travel trail bike but I am more disappointed that the rear travel is 120 and not say 130----I suspect that 120 is all they could squeeze out w/o more of a major redo on the linkage in what looks like just mods to the existing frame.
    Different this time. The entire industry for the most part went boost. Pivot is one of the few that use super boost plus on trail bikes.

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    I hope they don't completely mess up the 429SL next.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    What did superdooperboost do to make the frame stiffer?
    I canít recall saying that it did, but thereís a detailed FAQ on the Pivot site that goes into the benefits if youíre genuinely interested?

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    Looks great. Can't wait to try one.

  64. #64
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    Reminiscing about simpler times...

    Pivot Trail 429-img_1620.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Sorry to be so blunt, but I think Pivot needs to re-think how they gather user needs, analyze emerging trends, and create a better unity with their R/D efforts.
    Nailed it!

    I'm a big fan of the Pivot brand. Hopefully this is not a sign of past success building a culture of arrogance. Look back through any of the threads discussing speculation about changes to the 429 Trail and I guarantee you will not find anyone calling for Super Boost and begging Pivot to keep the PF92. This year, some of Pivot's primary competitors (Intense, Santa Cruz and Yeti) have come out with bikes that are cutting edge but also have changes that are responsive to customer/rider feedback.

    Time will tell.

  66. #66
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    Any word if this will fit 29x2.6 tires?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    I canít recall saying that it did, but thereís a detailed FAQ on the Pivot site that goes into the benefits if youíre genuinely interested?
    I've read the marketing, you're the one that attributed the SB being a great clyde bike to SuperTrooperBoost. Which makes it sound like a frame can't be made stiff with Spurdooperboost- which we all know is silly.
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    I did a quick google search for a super boost rear hub and came back with zero hubs...

    Who makes these things and can you actually buy them?

  69. #69
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    Pivot Trail 429

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I've read the marketing, you're the one that attributed the SB being a great clyde bike to SuperTrooperBoost. Which makes it sound like a frame can't be made stiff with Spurdooperboost- which we all know is silly.
    I think youíre the one being silly here. I specifically did not attribute SuperBoost being the one factor responsible for the Switchblade being a great Clyde bike. If youíre trying to get a raise from someone on this then youíll have to try harder with somebody else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sml-2727 View Post
    Any word if this will fit 29x2.6 tires?
    According to Pink bikeís review it can use 29x2.6Ē tires and 27.5x3.1Ē tires.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
    Nailed it!

    I'm a big fan of the Pivot brand. Hopefully this is not a sign of past success building a culture of arrogance. Look back through any of the threads discussing speculation about changes to the 429 Trail and I guarantee you will not find anyone calling for Super Boost and begging Pivot to keep the PF92. This year, some of Pivot's primary competitors (Intense, Santa Cruz and Yeti) have come out with bikes that are cutting edge but also have changes that are responsive to customer/rider feedback.

    Time will tell.
    Scroll to the bottom of the FAQs. They knew Pinkbike readers (and thus everyone else) would not like it. Then why go forward with it at all? Pivot was slow to adopt longer reach. Pivot was slow to adopt steeper seat tube angles. Pivot was slow to move ahead with bikes with just a 1X. They keep insisting on using the angleset cup instead of a flip chip. They are insistent on the PF BB., and they are just sticking to this super boost nonsense. Segment your market Pivot. For starters what are the behaviors your target customer exhibits? Do many have multiple wheelsets or have already built wheelsets? Then donít offer another hub standard, and offer frame only options. Why purposely cross off a good chunk of your market like that?

    My Firebird, a bike that at least on paper may benefit from super boost, does not have super boost, I am 200 pounds (210 kitted) and have never felt a need for super boost, nor have I read a single review that it lacked that. I have a Hightower, standard boost, and never felt like the bike needed more stiffness and havenít read any reviews that stated the HT needs more stiffness. Seems like Pivot are manufacturing bikes with features, and not necessarily fulfilling user needs.

    I do recall some reviews about the 429 Trail being flexy in the rear end, but for the most part, the bike was a hit and most people could care less.

    Pivot, donít chase windmills.

  72. #72
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    Now we are talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Reminiscing about simpler times...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A quote from pivotís FAQS page. It seems arrogant and that they donít care what their customers think. Well I am a pivot owner and will vote with my wallet.

    Maybe I will send them a smug copy of the Ibis or Evil recite when I buy a bike this summer...

    ďDid you just design Super Boost Plus to give all the commenters on Pinkbike something to talk about?

    Yes and no. We do love being the topic of conversation but the realize is that Super Boost Plus will make you a better rider. When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, you'll think: "I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. And gosh darn it, people like me!" You and your Trail 429 will be able to manual for DAYS and you will look amazing while doing it. That leads to more confidence and a confident person is a happy person. Happy people tend to do nice things for other and happy people that ride the Pivot Trail 429 with Super Boost Plus are the happiest people on the trail. So, that my friends, is how Super Boost Plus will make you a better person.Ē

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    It's funny even the follow or die company went back to threaded BBs.
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  75. #75
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    Some of you dudes take this stuff WAY too personally. While Iím sure theyíre not pooping on YOU personally, the company has no responsibility to take engineering input from its customer base. Just like the customer has no responsibility to buy a product that he/she doesnít like.

    Boom. Problem solved.

    No dog in this fight. I donít own a Pivot, donít work for Pivot and not in the market for a Pivot.

    I would note that my SB with 157 spacing was far and away the stiffest 29er Iíve owned or ridden. I didnít like the bike otherwise, but credit where due. 157 is likely the standard the industry should have moved toward instead of Boost, but thatís not the way it worked out. And, of course, if you need to build a wheel, any commonly available 157 hub will work just fine.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    A quote from pivotís FAQS page. It seems arrogant and that they donít care what their customers think. Well I am a pivot owner and will vote with my wallet.

    Maybe I will send them a smug copy of the Ibis or Evil recite when I buy a bike this summer...

    ďDid you just design Super Boost Plus to give all the commenters on Pinkbike something to talk about?

    Yes and no. We do love being the topic of conversation but the realize is that Super Boost Plus will make you a better rider. When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, you'll think: "I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. And gosh darn it, people like me!" You and your Trail 429 will be able to manual for DAYS and you will look amazing while doing it. That leads to more confidence and a confident person is a happy person. Happy people tend to do nice things for other and happy people that ride the Pivot Trail 429 with Super Boost Plus are the happiest people on the trail. So, that my friends, is how Super Boost Plus will make you a better person.Ē
    Personally, I find this tongue in cheek content to be quite fun. We all know the Pinkbike community loves to respond to anything ďdifferentĒ and everything that looks the same as something else already on the market. If a bike company canít poke a little fun, whatís the world coming to?


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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    Personally, I find this tongue in cheek content to be quite fun. We all know the Pinkbike community loves to respond to anything ďdifferentĒ and everything that looks the same as something else already on the market. If a bike company canít poke a little fun, whatís the world coming to?


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    You are sort of missing the point.

    Any company selling a product or service should develop said product or service using a very deliberate process called (you guessed it) the product development process. The beginning of that involves gathering / documenting user requirements. Then design / manufacture the product people want. Don't build the product you want and then "hope" people buy it. Hope is not a good product development strategy. Another thing to avoid is to minimize "workarounds" for aspects of the product. For example if the intent was to increase profit margin (nothing wrong with this by the way) by using a cheaper carbon layup for the Trail429 that has more flex, don't use Super Boost Plus (SBP) as a "band aid" to regain stiffness or to speed up development time.

    It is clear from the Pinkbike part of the FAQs that they KNOW SBP is not popular and not seen as a net positive to the vast majority of potential customers. So why move ahead with R/D spend / time / people to implement a feature that is not a user requirement?

    I would suggest that potential purchasers of Pivot bikes have the following characteristics:

    They are sophisticated in their knowledge of mountain bikes. Therefore they know the differences between PF BB vs. Threaded, DW Link vs. VPP vs. FSR, etc.
    They have means to purchase 4,000 - 9,000 bikes
    They probably own more than one bike
    Many are likely to have their own wheels built
    They understand the benefits of modern geometry
    They ride 3+ times a week weather permitting (i.e., not just weekend warriors)

    You can see the picture I am painting here is this is a smaller market within the overall MTB available market. This is why you (Pivot) needs to build EXACTLY what this group wants, otherwise, they will simply choose another manufacturer. In other words, the only way to grow the business is a) offer a superior bike to this subset of customers or b) offer bikes to different, less sophisticated segments (which I would argue would tarnish the brand image).

    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    the company has no responsibility to take engineering input from its customer base. Just like the customer has no responsibility to buy a product that he/she doesnít like.

    Boom. Problem solved.
    Blockbuster, Kodak, Blackberry, K-Mart and Sears all agree.

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    Why are guys so vested in this subject?

    So you don't like the new 429 Trail?

    Okay, don't buy it.

    Move along folks, nothing to see here.

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    This whole discussion cracks me up. Like one poster said, if you donít like it, donít buy it. Every company takes risks (at least the good ones). Do you think every person with an iPhone was sitting around back in 2007 hoping someone would come out with a high end touch screen phone? Were they hoping they would put a proprietary charge cord on it? Did Apple ask all their users if they wanted to have the headphone jack removed?

    Companies take chances, thatís their job. Sometimes they win, sometimes they donít, but thatís their problem (unless you are a shareholder).

    I personally donít mind superboost, I buy a bike and use the wheels that come on it.

    Just my 2 cents.


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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    Why are guys so vested in this subject?

    So you don't like the new 429 Trail?

    Okay, don't buy it.

    Move along folks, nothing to see here.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmossbarger View Post
    This whole discussion cracks me up. Like one poster said, if you donít like it, donít buy it. Every company takes risks (at least the good ones). Do you think every person with an iPhone was sitting around back in 2007 hoping someone would come out with a high end touch screen phone? Were they hoping they would put a proprietary charge cord on it? Did Apple ask all their users if they wanted to have the headphone jack removed?

    Companies take chances, thatís their job. Sometimes they win, sometimes they donít, but thatís their problem (unless you are a shareholder).

    I personally donít mind superboost, I buy a bike and use the wheels that come on it.

    Just my 2 cents.


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    So why bother discussing anything, why have this website?
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    It would be different if you could even buy a super boost hub. I donít see them anyway where for sale, correct me if I am wrong.

    If you use a ďstandardĒ 157mm hub instead of SB+ and 6mm offset cranks would that not mess up the chain line a bit?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So why bother discussing anything, why have this website?
    It is one thing to say hey I don't like it and give reasons why, it is another to get into the minutia regarding marketing, engineering and not taking customer feedback as if anyone here is qualified to run a bike manufacturing business. Nobody here knows how Pivot came up with this design.

    For all we know it could be a hit, or a turd, but for guys here to say they know more than Pivot?

    Full disclosure, I rode the older version 429 Trail last week and it is just not for me.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    You are sort of missing the point.

    Any company selling a product or service should develop said product or service using a very deliberate process called (you guessed it) the product development process. The beginning of that involves gathering / documenting user requirements. Then design / manufacture the product people want. Don't build the product you want and then "hope" people buy it. Hope is not a good product development strategy. Another thing to avoid is to minimize "workarounds" for aspects of the product. For example if the intent was to increase profit margin (nothing wrong with this by the way) by using a cheaper carbon layup for the Trail429 that has more flex, don't use Super Boost Plus (SBP) as a "band aid" to regain stiffness or to speed up development time.

    It is clear from the Pinkbike part of the FAQs that they KNOW SBP is not popular and not seen as a net positive to the vast majority of potential customers. So why move ahead with R/D spend / time / people to implement a feature that is not a user requirement?

    I would suggest that potential purchasers of Pivot bikes have the following characteristics:

    They are sophisticated in their knowledge of mountain bikes. Therefore they know the differences between PF BB vs. Threaded, DW Link vs. VPP vs. FSR, etc.
    They have means to purchase 4,000 - 9,000 bikes
    They probably own more than one bike
    Many are likely to have their own wheels built
    They understand the benefits of modern geometry
    They ride 3+ times a week weather permitting (i.e., not just weekend warriors)

    You can see the picture I am painting here is this is a smaller market within the overall MTB available market. This is why you (Pivot) needs to build EXACTLY what this group wants, otherwise, they will simply choose another manufacturer. In other words, the only way to grow the business is a) offer a superior bike to this subset of customers or b) offer bikes to different, less sophisticated segments (which I would argue would tarnish the brand image).

    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...
    I donít think Iím missing the point at all. While I do agree with portions of your philosophy, a lot of it is opinion based when it comes to a business plan. I also disagree with regard to your assessment of the average Pivot customer. While the description you give is certainly part of that consumer group, there are a significant number of buyers that sit outside of that bubble.

    Whether you or I agree with it or not, Pivot is willing to take a risk on technologies that are not yet popular in the mainstream. This may prove to be a mistake, or they may later be seen as being ahead of their time. We just donít know. There are a number of people in the industry that have said that the Boost standard was a half measure that didnít really offer significant gains, either in frame stiffness, wheel strength, or tire clearance. Plenty also said that the industry should have just moved all the way to 157, a standard that was already in place. Who knows where the industry will end up, but itís interesting to watch.

    Iím torn with regard to the SBP aspect of the Trail, and the SB for that matter. Iím more disappointed that there is no frame only option for either bike though. Iíll hold off on judging the bike until Iíve ridden it.


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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    Iíll hold off on judging the bike until Iíve ridden it.


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    Now THAT is total crazy talk...
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    It would be different if you could even buy a super boost hub. I donít see them anyway where for sale, correct me if I am wrong.

    If you use a ďstandardĒ 157mm hub instead of SB+ and 6mm offset cranks would that not mess up the chain line a bit?
    You can get effectively the same thing as Super Boost in the SRAM X0 hub. I *think* you can from Onyx and I9 too. DT-Swiss does not yet make the hubs available separately AFAIK.

    Cassette position doesn't change from Super Boost to standard 157. Basically, on standard 157 hubs, there is usually a lot of unused space between the non-driveside spoke flange and the brake mount. Super Boost moves the spoke flange out to fill that space and increase the flange-to-flange width.

    Yours truly,

    Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
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  87. #87
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    I just think the bike is just too heavy. Damn boat anchor at 6.5lbs. Then they suck with press-fit BB when even the evil "S" is going threaded? Seems off the mark. I would love to replace my aluminum 5010 with a 29er, but not at 30+lbs, pressfit BB and crazy rear wheel spacing. No not worth it.
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    ...Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
    .
    NO WAY!!! This is a totally new standard....Thereís no was you did this and didnít perish

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    It is one thing to say hey I don't like it and give reasons why, it is another to get into the minutia regarding marketing, engineering and not taking customer feedback as if anyone here is qualified to run a bike manufacturing business. Nobody here knows how Pivot came up with this design.

    For all we know it could be a hit, or a turd, but for guys here to say they know more than Pivot?

    Full disclosure, I rode the older version 429 Trail last week and it is just not for me.
    What he said.. hereís why I canít wait to try it:

    1. Iíve ridden the SB and loved it....but it was a lot of bike for not so mountainy Delaware.

    2. The SB was STIFF. As a strong, big dude (225 with gear), I like that.

    3. I own ZERO sets of BOOST wheels, so 157 is cool with me. Especially if what Noah says is true 😉.

    4. Ive liked DW and havenít liked VPP or Horst. I look forward to trying the TB3, Smuggler, and Trail and compare to see how they compare.

    5. Demod the 429 and didnít like it. It was cramped for my monkey arms and a little too steep (Iíd like to try 27.5 cup with 29 wheels bc Iím not too concerned with B.B. height).

    6. Warranty: 10 yrs is pretty darn good (Iíd compare it to lifetime e for sure).

    Iím hoping itís a mini-Switchblade. My hearts with Transition and the TB3 looks good too, but if it is a mini-SB, Itíd be a awfully tough choice.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    There is a trend in the reviews that the Trail429 suffers in the small bump compliance department. This is very different than the original 429 Trail that reviewers didn't mention and a slightly less travel shock - along with the fact that the original 429 Trail felt like it had more travel than would appear on paper. I wonder if the added stiffness from super boost is creating a perception of "stiffer ride?" Just thinking out loud...
    I haven't seen any "reviews" of the bike yet, just quick first takes. As far as I know, some journalists gathered in Moab and did a single ride on the bike. Hardly enough time spent to do an honest review.

    To me, it kinda feels like everyone wants every bike to feel the same. They want the 6" bike that pedals like cross-country bike and the cross-country bike that descends like a demon. Pivot offers a complete line of bikes, and admittedly, at first glance it kinda seems overcrowded. But, if you've had the chance to ride many of them (I'm lucky that I have), you'd see they each have different personalities.

    The Trail wouldn't be my first pick to ride the Portal, but I'd much rather have it than the Switchblade for all of Mag 7 and the climb up Blue Dot (the proceeding sections on that route)! So, yeah, I'd pick it for that whole ride. If I could ride the Trail on upper Mag, my 429sl up Blue Dot, and grab my Firebird for the trip down Portal, I would. But you've gotta pick a bike that will work best for the whole ride. I suspect they chose the route they took for the launch in order to show the journalists how the bike handle a variety of terrain. It's unfortunate that the editors mostly talked about how it handled just the roughest part. They should've come to Fruita.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I just think the bike is just too heavy. Damn boat anchor at 6.5lbs.
    Are there ~120mm 29ers that weight much less? I think the Yeti 4.5s are close to 6 lbs. Evil Following MBs are 6.5 WITHOUT shock. SC Tallboy 3 is user-reported at 5.94 lbs. Transition Smuggler Carbon is 6.7 ibs. IIRC.

    Maybe on the heavier side, but boat anchor is bit dramatic.
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    I think the actual "mistake" in the industry was adopting the Boost standard for Trail / AM bikes, not Pivot going with 157. Easier said when you don't own a high-buck set of Boost trail wheels though.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Are there ~120mm 29ers that weight much less? I think the Yeti 4.5s are close to 6 lbs. Evil Following MBs are 6.5 WITHOUT shock. SC Tallboy 3 is user-reported at 5.94 lbs. Transition Smuggler Carbon is 6.7 ibs. IIRC.

    Maybe on the heavier side, but boat anchor is bit dramatic.
    Wouldnít it have been better for Pivot to simply make bike 120mm / 130mm, flip chip, 1X only, longer reach, steeper STA, and lighter than 429 Trail and call it a day? So far, you or others are not really advocating for super boost plus. You seem to just tolerate it. Canít really see benefit of this hub standard on a 120mm trail bike and so far you havenít mentioned any benefits either.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    .
    NO WAY!!! This is a totally new standard....Thereís no was you did this and didnít perish
    Where is anyone saying it is? We know wtf it is. Now to the point find me a ton of 120mm travel bikes that are wet noddles and need it.

    Also link me to the articles that show having the wider hub spacing makes for a stronger frame not wheel?

    I'm no light weight and I didn't notice my rear wheel being any stiffer when I went from 142 to 150 then back to 148. I get it in a lab it's X% stiffer but if you have a properly built wheels I doubt you see a difference when riding a 120mm bike.
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    Have been looking at Pivot quite seriously for my wife and was very excited to see the 429Trail released. Unfortunately, at less than 120lb she will derive no benefit from super boost plus, a 1700g+ wheelset, a 6.5lb frame, and a non-step-cast fork. This frame should just barely cross the 5lb mark. There seem to be two possibilities - vastly overbuilt or made with inferior carbon relative to other brands. Unfortunately, I'm quite disappointed with this. There's always the Mach 4, but no 29 option there.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Wouldnít it have been better for Pivot to simply make bike 120mm / 130mm, flip chip, 1X only, longer reach, steeper STA, and lighter than 429 Trail and call it a day? So far, you or others are not really advocating for super boost plus. You seem to just tolerate it. Canít really see benefit of this hub standard on a 120mm trail bike and so far you havenít mentioned any benefits either.
    Yeah, I tolerate it. I trust that Pivot did the number crunching during development and decided this was the best choice for their design goals. I've known Chris for 12 years and the designer Kevin for about as long. They know way more than I do about frame design. They've sold me on benefits and I've loved my Switchblade.

    As for benefits I've personally enjoyed with SB+ that aren't advertised? I've used Shimano Boost and non-Boost cranks on the Switchblade (50.4 and 53.4mm chainlines) which paired with the cassette location used with 157 spacing gives me a SICK chainline. You are limited with chainring size doing this, but with SRAM 10-42t (or 50t) or e13 9-46t cassettes you rarely need more top-end.

    I've been riding Enve wheels with standard 157 hubs (plenty stiff), but I could use alloy rims and SB+ hubs and get a notably stiffer wheel than is possible with 12x148. Nice perk if I want it.

    I just think it's silly to rule out a bike because it's NINE MILLIMETERS WIDER IN THE REAR.

    FWIW, I get the dissatisfaction with not offering a frame-only option. But, I'll probably be buying a complete for my wife and swapping the parts over with her Switchblade and selling it with new build - so it's unusually convenient for us (replacing a bike with all the same critical standard dimensions).

    Not trying to argue. Have a great weekend!
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post

    Yours truly,

    Noah "been using standard 157 hubs on superboost since June 2016 and hasn't died yet" Sears
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    That's what Pivot is asking the rest of its customer base that doesn't want the stock wheels or other parts to do. It's ridiculous.

    Everyone understands it's not a new standard and there are lots of aftermarket options, either with standard DH spacing or the few SPB hubs available for purchase. The problem is the stratospheric cost and hassle associated with buying a high end bike and then having to dump half of it to build the bike you want to ride.

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    That's what Pivot is asking the rest of its customer base that doesn't want the stock wheels or other parts to do. It's ridiculous.

    Everyone understands it's not a new standard and there are lots of aftermarket options, either with standard DH spacing or the few SPB hubs available for purchase. The problem is the stratospheric cost and hassle associated with buying a high end bike and then having to dump half of it to build the bike you want to ride.

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.
    Great question. Also - the SBP hubs make it harder for Pivot to acquire customers from other manufacturers. Say I am a Tallboy owner and really dig the Trail429. But also say I invested in carbon wheels for my TB with standard boost spacing. Many would prefer to sell their frame only and acquire a frame only, reusing their current carbon rims. Having to then ALSO rebuild a rear wheel throws the economics off. Thatís why NINE MILLIMETERS becomes an issue.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Where is anyone saying it is? We know wtf it is.
    Actually, btwn here and Pinkbike there are a shit-ton of people bemoaning the WHOLE NEW STANDARD know as 157 as though the earth is gonna end. So it appears that thereís plenty of folks who donít get it.

    As far as noodles, I donít think anyone has referred to modern bikes as noodles. But plenty of people have commented on the flex of the old 429. And a number of reviewers have noted flex in both the Sniper and the new SB100.

    Just sayin
    Last edited by smartyiak; 05-18-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    Legit question - Do you buy complete bikes from Pivot at Joe Public prices, ditch the stock wheels, and then pay for new, custom wheels that you actually want to ride? After that, do the same with the standard fork, and any other parts you want to swap out?

    It's super cool that you're a very good rider and have Pivot support at some level. But, it sounds like you get to bypass the big problems with Pivot's strategy that others have to deal with. If that's not the case, then I apologize. If it is the case, then you should acknowledge that you're coming at this from a different angle than the rest of the mtb world.
    Fair question. My wife and I do get discounted bikes from Pivot and that enables us to have more of them and use our own funds to travel to and from races. I also work with Enve on the product development side so my wheel cost is greatly reduced (though I do generally pay for hubs). And yeah, forks are effectively free (to a limited extent) since I'm the Brand Manager for MRP. So I don't have the same money invested in my builds as Joe Public - fully acknowledged.

    I already acknowledged that I understand the dissatisfaction with having to buy a complete. I like to build my bikes from the ground up. But that's a business decision Pivot has made and I can't fault them for that. I imagine it's hard for bike companies to forecast build kit demands, so at least knowing they'll sell as many build kits as frames for awhile helps.

    I'd write more but I gotta go to a race!

    Have a good weekend!
    Last edited by NoahColorado; 05-18-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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    Saw a blue 29er I my shop today. Clean looking bike. But I just donít get the super boost either. Not on a bike that is gonna be used to race. Riders are gonna want to go with upgraded wheels.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Actually, btwn here and Pinkbike there are a shit-ton of people bemoaning the WHOLE NEW STANDARD know as 157 as though the earth is gonna end. So it appears that thereís plenty of folks who donít get it.

    As far as noodles, I donít think anyone has referred to modern bikes as noodles. But plenty of people have commented on the flex of the old 429. And a number of reviewers have noted flex in both the Sniper and the new SB100.

    Just sayin
    Yea you're right Intense should have put super boost rear spacing on that Sniper because you can't make a stiff frame without it.
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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by yycyclist View Post
    Have been looking at Pivot quite seriously for my wife and was very excited to see the 429Trail released. Unfortunately, at less than 120lb she will derive no benefit from super boost plus, a 1700g+ wheelset, a 6.5lb frame, and a non-step-cast fork. This frame should just barely cross the 5lb mark. There seem to be two possibilities - vastly overbuilt or made with inferior carbon relative to other brands. Unfortunately, I'm quite disappointed with this. There's always the Mach 4, but no 29 option there.
    I think you have unrealistic expectations if you believe this should be a 5lb frame. This is a legit, aggressive trail bike, designed to be hammered on. Even in the prior iteration, it punched above its weight. Unless you plan to drop a 100-120mm fork on it, go full weight weenie build, and race XC or marathon on it, thereís no realistic reason to try to get frame weight that close to the 5lb mark. There just wouldnít be enough return on the investment required to lighten the frame that much. Cost would either go up significantly, or durability would go down significantly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    Saw a blue 29er I my shop today. Clean looking bike. But I just donít get the super boost either. Not on a bike that is gonna be used to race. Riders are gonna want to go with upgraded wheels.
    This is not designed to be a race bike. Itís an aggressive trail bike. Itís actually in the name.


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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    I think you have unrealistic expectations if you believe this should be a 5lb frame. This is a legit, aggressive trail bike, designed to be hammered on. Even in the prior iteration, it punched above its weight. Unless you plan to drop a 100-120mm fork on it, go full weight weenie build, and race XC or marathon on it, thereís no realistic reason to try to get frame weight that close to the 5lb mark. There just wouldnít be enough return on the investment required to lighten the frame that much. Cost would either go up significantly, or durability would go down significantly.


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    The Hightower is quite a bit more capable with a lighter frame and no superboost. Wondering what the Trail429 will come in for the X01 build? My Hightower with said build, 29 IW rims with DTSWISS 350 hubs, DHF II / Aggressor combo (2.5 each) is 29 lbs.

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    It could be that what I'm looking for simply doesn't exist. She will be chasing Strava QOM's on the way up and looking to enjoy the ride down without getting hurt or beat to death as if on a hardtail. Climbing is about power/weight and not much more. It will be impossible for her to damage anything. She just doesn't weigh enough. I have an old (2010 ish) ibis frame that weighs just over 5 lb and has 5in of travel. Never had a problem with it. I guess I thought things had progress further over the last decade.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    The Hightower is quite a bit more capable with a lighter frame and no superboost. Wondering what the Trail429 will come in for the X01 build? My Hightower with said build, 29 IW rims with DTSWISS 350 hubs, DHF II / Aggressor combo (2.5 each) is 29 lbs.
    The Hightower CC frame still comes in at close to the 6lb mark, or around the 6.5lb mark for the C frame. Not really any lighter than the Trail429, just a touch more travel and slightly less tire clearance.


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    What happens if you kill a superboost wheelset on a road trip? I bet most shops wonít have an extra wheelset laying around. There is a much better chance that you can find a shop with a 148 spaced wheel.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    The Hightower CC frame still comes in at close to the 6lb mark, or around the 6.5lb mark for the C frame. Not really any lighter than the Trail429, just a touch more travel and slightly less tire clearance.


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    Donít you think itís weird a 120mm frame is a half pound heavier than a frame for a 135mm bike? Forget about the C version, unless you are equating Pivots new offering with the C version of the Hightower?

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    This is not designed to be a race bike. Itís an aggressive trail bike. Itís actually in the name.


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    Yet on the website it is an XC/Trail category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Yea you're right Intense should have put super boost rear spacing on that Sniper because you can't make a stiff frame without it.
    Now youíre just being obtuse...or playing dumb. No one said that SB was the only way to make a frame stifff....or even the best way. But it is the way Pivot chose to do it.

    You asked for examples of ďnoodles.Ē While I still donít think any decent bike made is a noodle, I gave you two examples of brand-new light trail bikes where reviews have noticed flex.

    Could Intense or Yeti made the rear stiffer? Sure. Did they want to? I donít know...maybe the 2020 will be stiffer OR maybe it was a design choice; the same way Pivot made a design choice of 157.
    Last edited by smartyiak; 05-19-2018 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So why bother discussing anything, why have this website?
    Well, where else would bitter dudes like you go to hurl bombs at fellow riders? Some folks are discussing rationally. Others are arguing. Which are you?
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    ......

    I just think it's silly to rule out a bike because it's NINE MILLIMETERS WIDER IN THE REAR.


    ......
    You're emphasizing 9mm like it's not a big deal. Well then why make a bike only 9mm wider that no one can use their existing wheels on or be able to interchange wheels on? When I had my Switchblade, I HATED the fact that I couldn't use any of my other wheelsets from my other bikes on it. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it.

    IOW, nobody really gives a rat's arse about the 9mm per se, just the fact that they can't use other wheels on it and have to get specific wheels just for that bike. Who, for example, wants to spend a bunch on custom Enve wheels only to find out they don't really like the bike that much anyway but can't sell just the frame cuz they got this goofy 157 wheelset that won't fit on anything else? Good wheels have gotten so expensive now that they're a separate item from frames, it's no longer just a "bike". THAT'S why people like me and probably a bunch of others would rule this bike out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    You're emphasizing 9mm like it's not a big deal. Well then why make a bike only 9mm wider that no one can use their existing wheels on or be able to interchange wheels on? When I had my Switchblade, I HATED the fact that I couldn't use any of my other wheelsets from my other bikes on it. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it.

    IOW, nobody really gives a rat's arse about the 9mm per se, just the fact that they can't use other wheels on it and have to get specific wheels just for that bike. Who, for example, wants to spend a bunch on custom Enve wheels only to find out they don't really like the bike that much anyway but can't sell just the frame cuz they got this goofy 157 wheelset that won't fit on anything else? Good wheels have gotten so expensive now that they're a separate item from frames, it's no longer just a "bike". THAT'S why people like me and probably a bunch of others would rule this bike out.
    This exactly. I would have bought this bike but I want to swop DT Swiss spline wheels ($2500) between this bike and a long travel 29er as desired. I donít want their stock wheels.

    The bike look physically awesome but I am going to have to pass. There are a lot of other options that are probably just as good and cheaper do to the wheel issue (again $2500 Worth of wheels). I want to buy it as a pivot fan but just canít.

    Then there is the weight? I think 6.4lbs is about the same as my Mach 6 frame...

  114. #114
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    I rode the Trail 429 yesterday. Of the two colors, I preferred the blue. Both are matte finish for the most part. It was the Xt XTR build. Bike was super quiet. Liked the short CS and the stack was reasonable in size small. Pedaling was firm, but not overly. As other reviews have said, overall platform was firm and less plush. Wheelbase seemed short which I enjoyed as well.

    Enough to prompt me to buy? No not really. Wasn't as exciting as I had hoped. Improvement on prior design? Maybe. Just a little different route to the end.

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    Sounds like there's going to be a lot of unsold completes collecting dust thanks the unneeded Super boost and we're only on page 2 of this thread. Deal killer for 100's of would be buyers just like the Switchblade, but I guess Pivot didn't learn or care.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    I rode the Trail 429 yesterday. Of the two colors, I preferred the blue. Both are matte finish for the most part. It was the Xt XTR build. Bike was super quiet. Liked the short CS and the stack was reasonable in size small. Pedaling was firm, but not overly. As other reviews have said, overall platform was firm and less plush. Wheelbase seemed short which I enjoyed as well.

    Enough to prompt me to buy? No not really. Wasn't as exciting as I had hoped. Improvement on prior design? Maybe. Just a little different route to the end.

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    Bogey, can you compare it to the Mayhem? (Especially pedaling uphill). Bikes like the Mayhem interest me, but Iím concerned that 130 is overkill for these parts.

    Thanks

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    Small bump compliance-----seems everyone so far that has ridden the bike--albeit not a good sample yet---have commented that this is not as good as the current bike.

    This really concerns me more than the other chatter items---I mean what causes this==is it shock tune ? or the stiffer wheels ?

    Other bikes with the same suspension are pretty plush---Norco Sight---and others are a bit stiff-----SC HT. And of course there is the custom shocked Trek Fuel.

    I anxiously awaited this new bike as I have been overall pleased with my current 429--but we will see as more folks ride and the demo's become available---probably a few weeks I suspect.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    Small bump compliance-----seems everyone so far that has ridden the bike--albeit not a good sample yet---have commented that this is not as good as the current bike.

    This really concerns me more than the other chatter items---I mean what causes this==is it shock tune ? or the stiffer wheels ?

    Other bikes with the same suspension are pretty plush---Norco Sight---and others are a bit stiff-----SC HT. And of course there is the custom shocked Trek Fuel.

    I anxiously awaited this new bike as I have been overall pleased with my current 429--but we will see as more folks ride and the demo's become available---probably a few weeks I suspect.
    I must disagree that the Santa Cruz Hightower is stiff feeling. It has very good small bump compliance.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Well, where else would bitter dudes like you go to hurl bombs at fellow riders? Some folks are discussing rationally. Others are arguing. Which are you?
    Who's bitter? It just a bike and I can give two shits. We are discussing going to 157 and to that I've made my comments. I've already said I'm glad they fed up this bad, no second guessing my TB3 order now.

    People are swallowing the hype and saying the super boost is what makes the frame stiffer- that bullshit and everyone knows it. Pivot could have made the frame just as stiff with a 148 rear. Going 148 would also allowed them to sell frame onlys so that us morons would be able to put it together properly
    Bottom line for a 120mm bike there really wasn't a need to go 157. They would have been better off going to threaded BB- Hell even Specialized which a big wait a see company caught the hint from the market.
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    People are swallowing the hype and saying the super boost is what makes the frame stiffer- that bullshit and everyone knows it.
    Nobody has said this though, you said I did and I didnít. Although I will admit to skipping through a lot of this diatribe mainly thanks to you.

    You are coming across as a lot more giving of sh*ts than youíre making out at the moment.

    Why not try the bike then decide, or not and move on with your lovely TB3?...

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Nobody has said this though, you said I did and I didnít. Although I will admit to skipping through a lot of this diatribe mainly thanks to you.

    You are coming across as a lot more giving of sh*ts than youíre making out at the moment.

    Why not try the bike then decide, or not and move on with your lovely TB3?...
    This thread does suck!

    I do however like the rational feedback from either those that have ridden 429 Trail or guys in the know that do not like certain aspects of the bike.

    I can tell you why I did not like the 429 Trail I rode last week but pretty much irrelevant to this thread.

    But you can never please everybody.

    I did however fall in love with the Switchblade and I am buying one.

    Non boosted, slightly boosted, super boosted or turbo boosted I don't care, it was a great bike for me and can't wait

  122. #122
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    You will love it, I can vouch for that!!

    In my opinion Pivot believe that they are offering the full package with these bikes, SuperBoost and PF BBís are part of that because they believe that we (some, not all of us) will benefit from these features in the same way any other company worth their grain would do.

    Iím the kind of guy that generally always buys frame only then builds the bike up exactly how I want it, anyone can check my history on here for that and see the kind of bikes Iíve built. But the Switchblade offered me exactly what I was looking for and apart from an oval ring, my Team XX1 Eagle remains pretty much standard a year later.



    Letís make this thread great again people, letís get some real ride reports and some real pictures of this bike up on here, thatís what Iíll be doing once I have my test ride in the next couple of weeks...

  123. #123
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    This thread... bad form.

    I'm excited to test ride this new offering from Pivot here in a few short days.

    The silent majority will likely love this bike despite some not so trendy (yet) changes.

    This nonsense about reviews doubting the Trail 429's ability on Moabs roughest terrain is laughable. Defining a bikes lack of ability in it's most unlikely terrain speaks to the disregard the reviewers have for their responsibility as the voice of reason Pivot entrusted them with in helping market their brand and new bike.

    The largest audience for this new bike will likely not be "bombing", "sending" or "hucking" anything, on any bike, let alone a 120mm do everything bike that blurs the lines between XC and Trail bike categories.

    If this new Trail 429 is as versatile and forward thinking as the new Mach 5.5 in the 27.5 trail category, it will be a hit for the silent majority looking for an excellent climbing bike that give them the confidence they need to push the envelop on terrain that would otherwise give them pause.

    Oh, and this new Trail 429 frame is absolutely stunning!

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Yet on the website it is an XC/Trail category.
    It also appears in the Enduro/Trail category on the website...


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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post

    This nonsense about reviews doubting the Trail 429's ability on Moabs roughest terrain is laughable. Defining a bikes lack of ability in it's most unlikely terrain speaks to the disregard the reviewers have for their responsibility as the voice of reason Pivot entrusted them with in helping market their brand and new bike.
    Um, I hate to tell you this, but as far as I can tell (I COULD be wrong), Pivot invited a bunch of the media to ride these specific trails on this bike. So it's on Pivot if their bike didn't stand up to scrutiny on them. Otherwise, why did every review I read happen on the same Mag 7 and Portal Trail?

    Edit: straight from Vital MTB: "In the end, perhaps Pivot's choice of riding Mag 7 to Portal wasn't the best for the updated Trail 429's debut".

    Oh, and BTW, I subscribe to and enjoy your channel. Bought an HD4 based on your review. I like "poppy" bikes as you refer to them. And bought a Ripley LS based on your and other's reviews and after trying one.
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  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    This thread... bad form.

    I'm excited to test ride this new offering from Pivot here in a few short days.

    The silent majority will likely love this bike despite some not so trendy (yet) changes.

    This nonsense about reviews doubting the Trail 429's ability on Moabs roughest terrain is laughable. Defining a bikes lack of ability in it's most unlikely terrain speaks to the disregard the reviewers have for their responsibility as the voice of reason Pivot entrusted them with in helping market their brand and new bike.

    The largest audience for this new bike will likely not be "bombing", "sending" or "hucking" anything, on any bike, let alone a 120mm do everything bike that blurs the lines between XC and Trail bike categories.

    If this new Trail 429 is as versatile and forward thinking as the new Mach 5.5 in the 27.5 trail category, it will be a hit for the silent majority looking for an excellent climbing bike that give them the confidence they need to push the envelop on terrain that would otherwise give them pause.

    Oh, and this new Trail 429 frame is absolutely stunning!
    Yeah Jason, I agree with BMan, Iím a fan of your channel. Best one out there in fact. But i just think Pivot missed the mark on the 157 spacing on this xc/trail bike. Everything else is a winner. Iíve owned the 429 Trail, Ripley LS and others in this category. The 429T was my favorite of the bunch. This one should be sweet too but like many I like being able to switch wheels between my bikes (Yeti SB100 and Evil Wreckoning). Have the super boost makes that impossible.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    This thread... bad form.
    The thread may be something you disagree with, but that doesn't make it bad form. The forum is for opinions and thoughts on bikes. Those can be positive or negative. Nobody is being disrespectful, but they are being vocal with regard to what they see as a substantially poor choice by Pivot. I started the thread because I was very excited about the bike. That bubble quickly burst when I saw what they actually made. It never even crossed my mind that they'd toss SuperTrooper Boost Plus on this bike. Completely unexpected.

    As for the first ride reviews - they were based on a ride selected by Pivot for the explicit purpose of revealing the new bike's capability. I'm sure they were hoping for "climbs like a goat", "decends like a playful demon". Didn't turn out that way. Given how reluctant reviewers are to point out negative attributes on bikes, the almost universal opinion that it was not the best descender is not a good sign.

    Your comment about reviewers' responsibility to be shills for Pivot is disappointing. I'd certainly hope that folks invited to review the bike would provide honest, objective feedback.

    I do think the Trail 429 and the other recent Pivot models are some of the most visually stunning bikes on the market. They've done a really great job in that area. I'd own one of the new Pivots if I could buy a 29er frame from them with more than 100mm travel. But, that's not in their plan. So, I'll vote with my wallet. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooly88 View Post
    Yeah Jason, I agree with BMan....

    I agree with these guys. Sounds like Pivot screwed up on this one. Iím interested bc of my local trails in Delaware, which is, obviously not, Moab.

    Reviews may have been more positive on some mellower trails.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    Your comment about reviewers' responsibility to be shills for Pivot is disappointing. I'd certainly hope that folks invited to review the bike would provide honest, objective feedback.
    "This nonsense about reviews doubting the Trail 429's ability on Moabs roughest terrain is laughable. Defining a bikes lack of ability in it's most unlikely terrain speaks to the disregard the reviewers have for their responsibility as the voice of reason Pivot entrusted them with in helping market their brand and new bike."

    Above is what I said, non of which has anything to do with expecting the riders/reviewers be deceitful or shill about the Trail 429 or any bike they review.

    I hesitate to get into it on a forum like this but the purpose of my previous post was to get the conversation back on a more useful topic.

    The reality is, most people buy complete bikes, most people don't upgrade their wheelset and most people wont be riding a 120mm 29er down Portal Trail in Moab...

    So as a reviewer/rider at the debut of the Trail 429, why spend more than a sentence on the fact the bike was out matched by the trail and focus on all the other miles of terrain that was within the scope of use for this bike?!

    It would have been useful for those invited to the early debut to focus on where the bike shines and for what terrain is best suited for the bike.

    I'm certainly not asking anyone to be deceitful about their experience. Just because the location was above the pay grade of this new Trail 429 doesn't mean that's the only place the bike will be ridden... speak to the terrain and experience that would be ideal or best suited for this bike. That's a review that would have been more useful to the consumers. Hope you understand?!

    And 157mm.... I don't have a crystal ball but I have a feeling Pivot and a handful of others are first to the table on this! Only a guess though
    Last edited by jason04; 05-19-2018 at 07:13 PM.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    "This nonsense about reviews doubting the Trail 429's ability on Moabs roughest terrain is laughable. Defining a bikes lack of ability in it's most unlikely terrain speaks to the disregard the reviewers have for their responsibility as the voice of reason Pivot entrusted them with in helping market their brand and new bike."

    Above is what I said, non of which has anything to do with expecting the riders/reviewers be deceitful or shill about the Trail 429 or any bike they review.

    I hesitate to get into it on a forum like this but the purpose of my previous post was to get the conversation back on a more useful topic.

    The reality is, most people buy complete bikes, most people don't upgrade their wheelset and most people wont be riding a 120mm 29er down Portal Trail in Moab...

    So as a reviewer/rider at the debut of the Trail 429, why spend more than a sentence on the fact the bike was out matched by the trail and focus on all the other miles of terrain that was within the scope of use for this bike?!

    It would have been useful for those invited to the early debut to focus on where the bike shines and for what terrain is best suited for the bike.

    I'm certainly not asking anyone to be deceitful about their experience. Just because the location was above the pay grade of this new Trail 429 doesn't mean that's the only place the bike will be ridden... speak to the terrain and experience that would be ideal or best suited for this bike. That's what would have been more useful to use the consumers. Hope you understand?!

    And 157mm.... I don't have a crystal ball but I have a feeling Pivot and a handful of others are first to the table on this! Only a guess though
    Fair enough. I apologize for misinterpreting the intent of your comment.

    Most folks do buy complete bikes. Frame buyers are a distinct minority. I suspect the thread will take a more positive trajectory once people get over the surprise of the rear spacing and lack of frame-only availability. The sooner people start getting their hands on these bikes and get some miles in, the better. Then, we can all have a group hug and move on. Start talking more about how the bike rides and where it shines.

  131. #131
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    157. Sooo many people are upset about 157. Iím not crazy for another hub size, but I like that Pivot and a few other engineer driven companies have decided to design and utilize based on their own development and convictions. If you donít like it, there are many others to choose from.

    Many people refer to it as bad marketing, but I think itís more of a philosophical question that goes way beyond bikes. Who tells you what to do?

    Buy it or donít. There are a lot of great bikes.

  132. #132
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    Vitalísreview:
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...t-reviews/3192

    TLDR: Moab overpowered it. Strange in that reviewer gave it 4 stars, but reading the review, youíd think it got 1.

    Question: how do these gatherings work? Vitalís review is almost copy and paste of pinkbikeís...so much so that I thought it might be the same reviewer.

    Is it coincidence that they separately wrote nearly the same review/article? Do all the testers get together and compare notes? Is it just that they obviously chat afterwards and the feelings of all riders were unanimous that it was impossible not to be the focus of any review? Not asking about this review in particular, just generally how it works.

  133. #133
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    I like the general direction of the bike, but superboost isn't happening for me, atleast not without swappable dropouts so I could run something else if need be.

    Competitive cyclist sell Pivot frames, the original Trail is on sale atm.

  134. #134
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    I am still bitter over the 142 to 148 switch! I have a Chameleon and a '16 Stumpy 29er. I only buy frames for my builds. I hate having to sell off parts I don't need. I have ridden Mag 7-Portal (and a ton of other places) on my Stumpy and apparently I am not a good enough rider to realize I NEED 148 spacing. I will be replacing the Stumpy this fall and was really looking forward to the new Trail 429. When I do, i will have to invest in 148 wheels. But like so many others, I will not make the jump to 157 spacing. I have three sets of very nice wheels that I can easily interchange b/w my SS and my Stumpy. Now my biggest concern is what if Pivot got it right? What if slowly the industry moves to this spacing? Doubtful? I don't know, but it has become another thing to consider. I swear I read somewhere that another manufacturer was going to produce a 157 frame. Don't know if that was BS or not, but I don't want to see hub size follow the same idiotic pattern bottom brackets did!
    "No good deed goes unpunished"

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach417 View Post
    I am still bitter over the 142 to 148 switch! I have a Chameleon and a '16 Stumpy 29er. I only buy frames for my builds. I hate having to sell off parts I don't need. I have ridden Mag 7-Portal (and a ton of other places) on my Stumpy and apparently I am not a good enough rider to realize I NEED 148 spacing. I will be replacing the Stumpy this fall and was really looking forward to the new Trail 429. When I do, i will have to invest in 148 wheels. But like so many others, I will not make the jump to 157 spacing. I have three sets of very nice wheels that I can easily interchange b/w my SS and my Stumpy. Now my biggest concern is what if Pivot got it right? What if slowly the industry moves to this spacing? Doubtful? I don't know, but it has become another thing to consider. I swear I read somewhere that another manufacturer was going to produce a 157 frame. Don't know if that was BS or not, but I don't want to see hub size follow the same idiotic pattern bottom brackets did!
    All of Knollyís bikes are 157 boost I believe

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    All of Knollyís bikes are 157 boost I believe
    Only the Fugitive is. The rest of their line up including their Carbon Warden is 142 spaced.

  137. #137
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    The problem with 157 is the current lack of support by vendors and the desire not to offer a frame because of it. Despite any advantages 157 might have it makes little sense to build a bike around it when the 157 market is not mature. My fav Pivot bike was the switchblade but I got rid of it after having such a hard time finding options for wheels I wanted, it simply was not worth dealing with as there were many other great bikes available at the time.

    It has gotten a little better but the reality is that these bikes should be sold as a frame only option and wheel / hub options should be available. By not selling a frame only because they know getting a proper wheel could be an issue they are basically admitting there is a problem and the only solution is to buy a complete bike. Pivot should also offer hubs / wheels for customers to buy direct with the intent to make the transition easier and to help the market adapt to a 157 hub standard. This would also help current superboost customers with wheel options. Not offering easy solutions for new and current customers to work with a new hub standard that you are trying to market and forcing them to buy a complete bike because of it is kind of a lame approach IMO.

  138. #138
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    Pivot selling super boost hubs (crank that work too) would be a good start to fixing the current state of the issue.

  139. #139
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    Sometimes I get the feeling everyone is chasing Evil bikes as far as capability. The difference being Evil doesn't play the racer boy weight game and everyone buying one knows the trade off in weight vs performance. Part of the problem I think with the big companies is they are afraid to post accurate weights because they don't want to offend the weight weenies. I was between the Mach5.5 and the Calling and was close to the 5.5 due to the claimed weight. After researching actual built weights compared to claimed weights there was little difference between the 2 bikes. I went with the suspension platform I prefer in the end.
    Also I like to build my bikes because I'm picky and if I am going to spend 6+ grand on a bike I want it the way I want it. I like Hope brakes and why spend more money to upgrade the wheel set when you can get a good pair from the start. The no frame option is a deal breaker for me.
    Boost spacing I think is a good thing, as it was one of the last remnants left over from the early days of mt.biking and its road bike influences. Remember the uproar over 9mm spindles vs thru axles. Dave Turner was at the fore front of that argument pushing the manufactures forward long before anyone else. I think the industry needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It would be nice to see the hard data between the 2 boost platforms. I also think too many changes too quick in the industry isn't a good thing,especially when the pricing for mt.biking has jumped the shark in my opinion. When you can build a high end bike for thousands less than a big box there is a problem. It used to be opposite. Big box meant value and boutique was high end. It seems to have reversed in recent years. I think the industry as a whole needs to do a little soul searching.
    I was looking forward to the 429 because I could swap parts over from current 29ner and I have been a huge Pivot fan and own an original Firebird I still ride. Pivot frames are a work of art.
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  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E View Post
    Part of the problem I think with the big companies is they are afraid to post accurate weights because they don't want to offend the weight weenies.
    .
    I don't see much in the way of catering to WW's by manufacturer's lately...it has all been more more more...and we now have lot's of 6.5-7lb carbon frame bikes.

    Plus, WW's will generally due to legwork to get a gram count, whether or not manufacturer's help them make it easy. I really wish they'd figure that out and just post accurate frame weights across all sizes just like they do geo specs (even with a +/- number to account for variances).
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  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Bogey, can you compare it to the Mayhem? (Especially pedaling uphill). Bikes like the Mayhem interest me, but Iím concerned that 130 is overkill for these parts.

    Thanks
    I was truly interested in liking the 429. However I was underwhelmed. I don't think it did anything better than the Mayhem. Spot definitely a better climber especially up techy stuff. Down as well. Spot more capable of eating up chatter and rocks. Speed was better maintained. Handling, a draw.

    Now I have a custom dpx2 and fox 34 on my Spot. Plus my wheels etc. Not sure if the T429 would be different with my equipment or not.

    Thinking overnight, I decided I liked the blue over the red, but both are rather ugly now that I think more about it. Neither are very stricking to me and look like drab off color choices. Personal opinion obviously.

    As much as I wanted to like the T429, I don't see owning one. Others may love it. But it didn't shine to me or excite me in any way. The Spot isn't perfect either. I wish the stack was a little lower, chainstays shorter and lighter.


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  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E View Post
    Sometimes I get the feeling everyone is chasing Evil bikes as far as capability. The difference being Evil doesn't play the racer boy weight game and everyone buying one knows the trade off in weight vs performance. Part of the problem I think with the big companies is they are afraid to post accurate weights because they don't want to offend the weight weenies. I was between the Mach5.5 and the Calling and was close to the 5.5 due to the claimed weight. After researching actual built weights compared to claimed weights there was little difference between the 2 bikes. I went with the suspension platform I prefer in the end.
    Also I like to build my bikes because I'm picky and if I am going to spend 6+ grand on a bike I want it the way I want it. I like Hope brakes and why spend more money to upgrade the wheel set when you can get a good pair from the start. The no frame option is a deal breaker for me.
    Boost spacing I think is a good thing, as it was one of the last remnants left over from the early days of mt.biking and its road bike influences. Remember the uproar over 9mm spindles vs thru axles. Dave Turner was at the fore front of that argument pushing the manufactures forward long before anyone else. I think the industry needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It would be nice to see the hard data between the 2 boost platforms. I also think too many changes too quick in the industry isn't a good thing,especially when the pricing for mt.biking has jumped the shark in my opinion. When you can build a high end bike for thousands less than a big box there is a problem. It used to be opposite. Big box meant value and boutique was high end. It seems to have reversed in recent years. I think the industry as a whole needs to do a little soul searching.
    I was looking forward to the 429 because I could swap parts over from current 29ner and I have been a huge Pivot fan and own an original Firebird I still ride. Pivot frames are a work of art.
    The Following doesnít come close to the Switchblade in stiffness. The 429T is better but not over whelming. My 429A&C, previous gen Fuel EX, Scalpel and custom El Capitan are the stiffest bikes Iíve owned. If 157 contributes to stiffness, 2.5 rubber, steeper ST, and short CS Iím for it. And recently I was running a double. Iíve changed many PF92 BB chasing creaks. Never SRAM or Shimano. Others though.......

    Can my 429T handle Moab? Easily, but who buys a 429 primarily just for Moab, unless Pivot slacked it out like the Following. But since most riders donít ride the tough trails of Moab or if they do, itís once or infrequently, maybe to those riders knowing that their bikes are Moab ready would be a selling point. Pure speculation on my part and a rider on a SS kicked my butt there.

    Transferring wheel sets, ease of maintenance, lack of frame sets, cost..... I get it. I understand that these are high priorities for many of the posters. And I have to admit, why not slightly longer CS in a shorter travel bike and stick with 148? Then you have the current bike. My 429T is a great bike, but itís my back up so the Trail429 replacement is not likely to happen. Ultimately the market place will decide.


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    Heading to the high sierra for the week to backpack across some of the still snow bound passes..
    Hopefully when I return some folks have ridden the bike and we get real initial reports and we have exhausted the 157 topic. Be nice to actually have ride impressions. My local LBS expects to have some inventory this week but demo's still a bit out.

    Be nice to see some comparisons to the direct competition---Norco Sight, SC HT, Trek Fuel--these bikes all have very similar geo but different suspension designs.

    I am still interested in the new bike as the issues stated here are not relevant to me--I see the points but I need new wheels anyhow and do not build from a frame.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post

    ..I would note that my SB with 157 spacing was far and away the stiffest 29er Iíve owned or ridden. I didnít like the bike otherwise, but credit where due. 157 is likely the standard the industry should have moved toward instead of Boost, but thatís not the way it worked out. And, of course, if you need to build a wheel, any commonly available 157 hub will work just fine.
    Agree.

    142 for xc, 157 for everything else.


    For those wanting a steeper STA, remember this is a trail bike meant to be pedaled around alot. Long days in the saddle on rolling terrain are more comfortable on bikes with modest STAs. Very steep STAs are great for bikes that pedal up steeps just to bomb down.

    I like the bike but heard from more than one source the rear end feels, well a bit harsh.

    Lack of a frame only option is a big problem for me.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post

    The Trail wouldn't be my first pick to ride the Portal, but I'd much rather have it than the Switchblade for all of Mag 7 and the climb up Blue Dot (the proceeding sections on that route)! So, yeah, I'd pick it for that whole ride. If I could ride the Trail on upper Mag, my 429sl up Blue Dot, and grab my Firebird for the trip down Portal, I would. But you've gotta pick a bike that will work best for the whole ride. I suspect they chose the route they took for the launch in order to show the journalists how the bike handle a variety of terrain. It's unfortunate that the editors mostly talked about how it handled just the roughest part. They should've come to Fruita.
    Agree. I'd rather be a bit under-biked than over biked. Being a bit under-biked on a snappy trail machine for Portal means you just take it a hair slower and with more finesse. But, for the rest of Mag 7 seems like the perfect bike. Need more bike? I'd bet the 429 with 2.5" WT tires would be provide more than enough bike for most riders.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E View Post
    I think the industry needs to settle on a standard and stick with it.
    Yes. Reading this thread, I can't help but think this reaction isn't so much toward Pivot, but to the industry in general. Then again, this bike doesn't make sense to me...

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Agree. I'd rather be a bit under-biked than over biked. Being a bit under-biked on a snappy trail machine for Portal means you just take it a hair slower and with more finesse. But, for the rest of Mag 7 seems like the perfect bike. Need more bike? I'd bet the 429 with 2.5" WT tires would be provide more than enough bike for most riders.
    My 429T with SE5s rocked.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    My 429T with SE5s rocked. Then the Switchblade came out.


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    I like what they did with this bike!

    SuperBoost is giving massive tire clearance and the best chain line I had on a bike so far. The pressfit BB is making no issues at all. Abused my Switchblade for 12month before I decided to install a new BB. And the old one was probably still fine. No noises and very easy to swap.
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  150. #150
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    I have been riding since I was 28 years old and I am now 60. Only break I took was the last 5 years due to work and life in general but I am back into it now and love it even more than before.

    My first specific mountain bike was a Schwinn Sierra Vista, basically a 10 speed road bike with a relaxed handle bar that looked like it came off a beach cruiser. My first race on that bike was a 50 mile race from Tecate to Rosarito.

    It was an ugly sight-LOL!

    I remember back in the early 90s when mountain bike manufactures where in the worst shape you can imagine with sales. Absolutely no innovation at the time and popularity of mountain biking was in the toilet because of that.

    Then came the Rock Shock Judy, that created interest but a lot of naysayers complained about weight and how it was not reliable as a rigid fork. Oh and if the guys complained about that, you should of heard the absolute disdain riders had when Manitou (it was a bike manufacturer) when they came out with a rear suspension that had elastomer springs on the seat stays. You would have thought it was the biggest POS ever.

    What about the first sets of disc brakes? Those were maybe as good as rim brakes, I was not too impressed as just the cable stretch made them marginally better at best.

    Had none of these innovations occurred where would we be today?

    I think a good saying that applies to mountain bikes is "innovate or die". Sit still in this industry and you are toast in just a matter of years. If you do not have a product that distinguishes different than others then where does that leave you?

    i Think Yeti, Santa Cruz, Turner, Pivot and name any other boutique bike manufacturers are the ones that guide the industry. If you look at the big box bike manufacturers they only follow, not lead in this industry. Lots of engineering and thought does go into this.

    And as to super boost and having to buy new rims being such a downside I have to laugh. How many guys here have a list of 4-5 bikes listed in their avi that they currently own that are expensive in their own right with custom builds, yet because you have to buy an extra set or rims all of a sudden it is a huge expense and a deal killer. REALLY???

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    I have been riding since I was 28 years old and I am now 60. Only break I took was the last 5 years due to work and life in general but I am back into it now and love it even more than before.

    My first specific mountain bike was a Schwinn Sierra Vista, basically a 10 speed road bike with a relaxed handle bar that looked like it came off a beach cruiser. My first race on that bike was a 50 mile race from Tecate to Rosarito.

    It was an ugly sight-LOL!

    I remember back in the early 90s when mountain bike manufactures where in the worst shape you can imagine with sales. Absolutely no innovation at the time and popularity of mountain biking was in the toilet because of that.

    Then came the Rock Shock Judy, that created interest but a lot of naysayers complained about weight and how it was not reliable as a rigid fork. Oh and if the guys complained about that, you should of heard the absolute disdain riders had when Manitou (it was a bike manufacturer) when they came out with a rear suspension that had elastomer springs on the seat stays. You would have thought it was the biggest POS ever.

    What about the first sets of disc brakes? Those were maybe as good as rim brakes, I was not too impressed as just the cable stretch made them marginally better at best.

    Had none of these innovations occurred where would we be today?

    I think a good saying that applies to mountain bikes is "innovate or die". Sit still in this industry and you are toast in just a matter of years. If you do not have a product that distinguishes different than others then where does that leave you?

    i Think Yeti, Santa Cruz, Turner, Pivot and name any other boutique bike manufacturers are the ones that guide the industry. If you look at the big box bike manufacturers they only follow, not lead in this industry. Lots of engineering and thought does go into this.

    And as to super boost and having to buy new rims being such a downside I have to laugh. How many guys here have a list of 4-5 bikes listed in their avi that they currently own that are expensive in their own right with custom builds, yet because you have to buy an extra set or rims all of a sudden it is a huge expense and a deal killer. REALLY???
    Iím so old I remember when I thought front suspension was a fad. I donít feel Pivot is trying to direct industry standards. They donít have that much market influence. Shimano in the past, yes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    And as to super boost and having to buy new rims being such a downside I have to laugh. How many guys here have a list of 4-5 bikes listed in their avi that they currently own that are expensive in their own right with custom builds, yet because you have to buy an extra set or rims all of a sudden it is a huge expense and a deal killer. REALLY???
    It isn't the fact they people have to buy new rims. In fact, most of the folks you are referring to already have bought new rims; and either swap wheelsets between bikes, or want to use their existing wheelsets on a new bike.

    X01 builds tend to come in around 6,500 dollars and when this includes Reynolds Carbon rims (that have super boost plus hubs) the price jumps to over 8,000 dollars (a good chunk of what a new frame only package would cost).

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    It isn't the fact they people have to buy new rims. In fact, most of the folks you are referring to already have bought new rims; and either swap wheelsets between bikes, or want to use their existing wheelsets on a new bike.

    X01 builds tend to come in around 6,500 dollars and when this includes Reynolds Carbon rims (that have super boost plus hubs) the price jumps to over 8,000 dollars (a good chunk of what a new frame only package would cost).
    That's fine and I do not want to sound like nobody has a right to complain.

    I'm just saying there is too much complaining about the advancements or changes.

    As to if any of these changes we will all see as time has a way to make that determination.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    That's fine and I do not want to sound like nobody has a right to complain.

    I'm just saying there is too much complaining about the advancements or changes.

    As to if any of these changes we will all see as time has a way to make that determination.
    I honestly think this time is different.

    The only change I hear is being discussed negatively is super boost (and so far no reviewer or owner of s bike with super boost has stated it is a must have). I donít hear anyone complaining of lack of 2x options, lack of aluminum frame options, longer reach, etc.

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    Does the fact that they've increased their price on each build irritate anyone? It seems like they basically priced their bikes one build up from the current model.

    Regardless of whether I love the bike or not when I get to demo, should it be more expensive than a similar spec'd Ripley, Tallboy, or Sight?

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by melommo View Post
    Does the fact that they've increased their price on each build irritate anyone? It seems like they basically priced their bikes one build up from the current model.

    Regardless of whether I love the bike or not when I get to demo, should it be more expensive than a similar spec'd Ripley, Tallboy, or Sight?
    Rare parts- Super Boost hubs and cranks
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    That's fine and I do not want to sound like nobody has a right to complain.

    I'm just saying there is too much complaining about the advancements or changes.

    As to if any of these changes we will all see as time has a way to make that determination.
    Hasn't it been 2 years since the Switchblade came out? You would think that it's been enough time for Superboost to catch on considering about 10-15 newly designed bikes from different manufacturers have surface since then.
    Last edited by Chicane32; 05-21-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by melommo View Post
    Does the fact that they've increased their price on each build irritate anyone? It seems like they basically priced their bikes one build up from the current model.
    Looks to me like pricing is now basically in line with Pivot's other models. I assume that internal routing accounts for much of the increase, as the previous (externally routed) 429 was priced lower than the other models.

    Quote Originally Posted by melommo View Post
    Regardless of whether I love the bike or not when I get to demo, should it be more expensive than a similar spec'd Ripley, Tallboy, or Sight?
    Generally, Pivots are at the pricy end of the spectrum...I'm sure folks who are "irritated" by this typically buy elsewhere.

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    Yes---I was fine with 157 and liked the new geo but I am ticked by the price----come on on in the face of the online guys Pivot raises prices----I suspect this will be an issue for me given the competition in the segment --I really have enjoyed by 429 trail but the bikes in the segment are so similar especially for us non expert riders that this feels bad to me. Maybe list price will turn out to be a starting point--

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    That's fine and I do not want to sound like nobody has a right to complain.

    I'm just saying there is too much complaining about the advancements or changes.

    As to if any of these changes we will all see as time has a way to make that determination.
    Here is the thing. 157mm (150mm) is not a new standard. Just like 20x110mm is not new. What's new is the super boost thing. Is this change (and the pain of yet another standard) worth the incremental improvement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    Yes---I was fine with 157 and liked the new geo but I am ticked by the price----come on on in the face of the online guys Pivot raises prices----I suspect this will be an issue for me given the competition in the segment --I really have enjoyed by 429 trail but the bikes in the segment are so similar especially for us non expert riders that this feels bad to me. Maybe list price will turn out to be a starting point--
    Itís likely related more to costs and the economy than anything else. Pivot is not the only brand that has increased pricing in some areas. There has been an increase in manufacturing costs, particularly on carbon components/frames. The smaller brands are not able to absorb those cost increases as easily as say Specialized, Trek, or Giant. As an an example, Evilís entire carbon line went up in price recently, purely based on increased costs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I honestly think this time is different.

    The only change I hear is being discussed negatively is super boost (and so far no reviewer or owner of s bike with super boost has stated it is a must have). I donít hear anyone complaining of lack of 2x options, lack of aluminum frame options, longer reach, etc.
    Iíll go out on a limb. Has any manufacture combined stiffness, travel, short CS, tire clearance, mud clearance (nooks and crannies) and the ability to run a double like the Switchblade?


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  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Iíll go out on a limb. Has any manufacture combined stiffness, travel, short CS, tire clearance, mud clearance (nooks and crannies) and the ability to run a double like the Switchblade?


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    But it costs too much.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Rare parts- Super Boost hubs and cranks
    A WTF PITA IMHO
    Glad I built up an old school 429T

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    But it costs too much.
    Yea. I knew that going in. Sheís a expensive mistress. And there are other very good options out there. But I do love her.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Iíll go out on a limb. Has any manufacture combined stiffness, travel, short CS, tire clearance, mud clearance (nooks and crannies) and the ability to run a double like the Switchblade?


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    I'd be less annoyed with the use of superboost on the Trail 429 if they were doing it to keep the double as an option. I don't ride doubles anymore, but I know some do and that was one of the driving arguments behind its use on the Switchblade. As it is, there are plenty of bikes out there with stiff rear ends, short stays, and lots of tire clearance running standard boost. The only issue is that they can't run a front derailleur. Neither can the Trail 429, but they still have to use superboost for some reason.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by yycyclist View Post
    It could be that what I'm looking for simply doesn't exist. She will be chasing Strava QOM's on the way up and looking to enjoy the ride down without getting hurt or beat to death as if on a hardtail. Climbing is about power/weight and not much more. It will be impossible for her to damage anything. She just doesn't weigh enough. I have an old (2010 ish) ibis frame that weighs just over 5 lb and has 5in of travel. Never had a problem with it. I guess I thought things had progress further over the last decade.
    No. There are lighter and just as capable bikes that will fit her needs: Yeti, Ibis, Intense and Santa Cruz. To name a few.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by godfather View Post
    Itís likely related more to costs and the economy than anything else. Pivot is not the only brand that has increased pricing in some areas. There has been an increase in manufacturing costs, particularly on carbon components/frames. The smaller brands are not able to absorb those cost increases as easily as say Specialized, Trek, or Giant. As an an example, Evilís entire carbon line went up in price recently, purely based on increased costs.
    If this is the case - that it's an across the board increase for manufacturers (and not just a Pivot thing), somehow I can swallow that more easily. But people are going to have to really fall in love w it to justify paying more than other bikes.

    Pivot's definitely marching to the beat of a different drummer in how they're handling this - with the Superboost copy on their site basically saying, "yeah, Pinkbike crowd's gonna be complaining", the odd choice of unveiling the bike to editors on trails that don't seem to bring out it's best, and the price increase over the old version... the whole thing feels a little cavalier - "hey, this is our new bike, buy it or don't, whatever - we're good either way".
    Last edited by melommo; 05-22-2018 at 07:50 AM.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by melommo View Post
    ...the whole thing feels a little cavalier - "hey, this is our new bike, buy it or don't, whatever - we're good either way".
    Maybe it is...a bit. The other company that I think is similar is Yeti. I'm thinking of the SB100. Yeti was basically like: sure it's heavy (for XC), but it's our XC/Trail offering...we like it...buy it, don't buy it...whatever.

    I feel like Yeti and Pivot are marketing toward the same folks...maybe their research supports their approach. I hope it works out for both brands b/c I think mtb is betterer with them around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    I hope it works out for both brands b/c I think mtb is betterer with them around. We'll see.
    that's a good way to look at it; kinda flipped my thinking to glass half full with your macro view of things - thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    I feel like Yeti and Pivot are marketing toward the same folks...maybe their research supports their approach.
    Mountain bikes for the Pottery Barn crowd

  172. #172
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    Costs are going up in all the lines. Spesh just released their new Stumpy Carbon at $4200. This includes an SLX drivetrain and brakes, Rhythm Fork, and X-Fusion dropper.

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    I hope I get a chance to ride this bike in 29er form. I think the 157mm spacing on a 2.8" tire at 15-20psi is fine, but I'm curious how stiff this rear end is on a 2.4" tire and a carbon wheel at 25-30psi. I'll stay away from the "new standard, not new standard" conversation, I'm more concerned about the reality of it on the ground. Also it would have been my personal wish that this bike was lighter, but they went in the direction of making it burlier, which is up to Pivot, not me. I'm curious to see what they do with the 429SL or any new name they have for the latest update to their full XC bike. The geometry of the new Trail 429 looks great though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yycyclist View Post
    It could be that what I'm looking for simply doesn't exist. She will be chasing Strava QOM's on the way up and looking to enjoy the ride down without getting hurt or beat to death as if on a hardtail. Climbing is about power/weight and not much more. It will be impossible for her to damage anything. She just doesn't weigh enough. I have an old (2010 ish) ibis frame that weighs just over 5 lb and has 5in of travel. Never had a problem with it. I guess I thought things had progress further over the last decade.
    Here is a list of bikes we built for the Photo shoot last month.
    XS:
    XO1 29Ē with aluminum wheels and DPX2 Ė 27.9 lbs

    SM:
    XT/XTR 29Ē with aluminum wheels and DPS Ė 28.88 lbs

    MD:
    XT/XTR 29Ē with Reynolds wheels and DPS Ė 28.96 lbs

    LG:
    XT/XTR 29Ē with aluminum wheels and DPS Ė 29.22 lbs

    XL:
    XT/XTR 29Ē with aluminum wheels and DPS Ė 29.6 lbs
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  175. #175
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    With technology comes expenses in many if not most cases.

    Look at what we pay for cars and trucks compared to just 10 years ago.

    Cell phones at or close to $1,000 to purchase

    As to raising prices, just inflation alone 3% a year is not unheard of. Add 3% onto each consecutive year and after 15 years or so you have a 50% increase....I think

    Is carbon fiber a product of crude oil? At least the resin is. Crude was $40 a barrel this time last year, it is now hovering above $70 a barrel.

    And from someone that buys raw metal for production, I know that aluminum and steel went up just in the last few months due to trade tariffs on Chinese metals.

    Hey, I am the old guy in the room, why am I not the one lamenting over cost of things. I remember .55 a gallon gas for crying out loud!

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    With technology comes expenses in many if not most cases.

    Look at what we pay for cars and trucks compared to just 10 years ago.

    Cell phones at or close to $1,000 to purchase

    As to raising prices, just inflation alone 3% a year is not unheard of. Add 3% onto each consecutive year and after 15 years or so you have a 50% increase....I think

    Is carbon fiber a product of crude oil? At least the resin is. Crude was $40 a barrel this time last year, it is now hovering above $70 a barrel.

    And from someone that buys raw metal for production, I know that aluminum and steel went up just in the last few months due to trade tariffs on Chinese metals.

    Hey, I am the old guy in the room, why am I not the one lamenting over cost of things. I remember .55 a gallon gas for crying out loud!
    The vast majority of carbon fiber cost comes from processing, not raw materials (pitch, PAN).

    Same for manufacturing costs (frames, rims...). It's almost always a very labor intensive process.

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  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    The vast majority of carbon fiber cost comes from processing, not raw materials (pitch, PAN).

    Same for manufacturing costs (frames, rims...). It's almost always a very labor intensive process.

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    Makes sense.

    Plus cost of prototyping and tooling or molds. I know nothing about carbon fiber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    Makes sense.

    Plus cost of prototyping and tooling or molds. I know nothing about carbon fiber.
    Most likely. Tooling of this size/complexity isn't cheap.

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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Maybe it is...a bit. The other company that I think is similar is Yeti. I'm thinking of the SB100. Yeti was basically like: sure it's heavy (for XC), but it's our XC/Trail offering...we like it...buy it, don't buy it...whatever.

    I feel like Yeti and Pivot are marketing toward the same folks...maybe their research supports their approach. I hope it works out for both brands b/c I think mtb is betterer with them around. We'll see.
    OMG. Are Pivot loyalists becoming like the Tribe? This requires a lot of self examination.


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    Quote Originally Posted by coleam View Post
    I'd be less annoyed with the use of superboost on the Trail 429 if they were doing it to keep the double as an option. I don't ride doubles anymore, but I know some do and that was one of the driving arguments behind its use on the Switchblade. As it is, there are plenty of bikes out there with stiff rear ends, short stays, and lots of tire clearance running standard boost. The only issue is that they can't run a front derailleur. Neither can the Trail 429, but they still have to use superboost for some reason.
    I think maybe it's too hard to have a DW Link, short CS, and tons of tire clearance (29 and 27.5+) without going to the 157 rear end. All the DW Link bikes seem to have to choose 3 out of the 4. Ibis does all that but with longer chainstays. Pivot had that, people complained about the long CS's and short front end, so they shortened the CS and something else had to give. I'm thinking the whole 157 spacing issue probably has little to do with stiffness, but more to do with shortening the rear while still allowing for the DW linkage and tire clearance. I would rather have seen them choose less clearance and not the Superduper boost. My 429 Trail was much better (for me) with 29' wheels.
    Last edited by BmanInTheD; 05-23-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Are there ~120mm 29ers that weight much less? I think the Yeti 4.5s are close to 6 lbs. Evil Following MBs are 6.5 WITHOUT shock. SC Tallboy 3 is user-reported at 5.94 lbs. Transition Smuggler Carbon is 6.7 ibs. IIRC.

    Maybe on the heavier side, but boat anchor is bit dramatic.
    Well lets see

    429SL is what 4.8lbs. Should be closer to 4.5 to competitive, but that will work. The trail is longer travel and should be stronger, btu 1.5lbs stronger. That is a lot 5.5lbs Max for the Trail in carbon. If the bike was 140mm travel then 6.5 is not bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Well lets see

    429SL is what 4.8lbs. Should be closer to 4.5 to competitive, but that will work. The trail is longer travel and should be stronger, btu 1.5lbs stronger. That is a lot 5.5lbs Max for the Trail in carbon. If the bike was 140mm travel then 6.5 is not bad.
    I know many feel differently, but a 1-1.5lb weight difference is not huge especially if the frame has above average durability and stiffness. I never heard of the Following as riding ďheavyĒ.


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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I know many feel differently, but a 1-1.5lb weight difference is not huge especially if the frame has above average durability and stiffness. I never heard of the Following as riding ďheavyĒ.


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    I currently have an first generation Aluminum Santa Cruz 5010. I would love to replace it with a 29er in similar travel range (130/125). But what I dislike most is the weight. 30lbs with a dropper and i35 mm wheels and 2.6 tires. I would love to get one down to 27lbs for shorter travel bike without spending 10k to do it. My Epic with 100/100 is 21.9lbs, but that is an XC build with lots of carbon. The gap between these bikes is massive when pedaling as I can really feel the weight. The lowest grade carbon Epic is 25lbs off the showroom floor. I would expect mid grade "trail bike" to be heavier for sure, but not 5lbs heavier. I am also disappointing that new stumpjumper as it is also a boat anchor at 30lbs. Seems like everyone even with carbon is going so heavy. There are probably bikes out there at 120-130 rear travel that come in a 27lbs at a cost less than 9,000, but I was hoping the new 429Trail would be one of them.
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    First ride on the Pivot Trail 429 this morning.

    Initial thoughts, the Trail 429 is incredibly responsive to rider input and the slightest touch of the pedals pushes this bike forward with a "let's do this" attitude.

    It's stiff, almost like a shorter travel race bike but with more suspension and better geometry. Like a better version of the Yeti SB 4.5 (which I loved by the way)

    Before my ride I sort of thought this bike was going to feel like the Ibis Ripley LS but after my first short ride, it's snappier and more playful then the Ripley. My concern coming into this demo ride was the Trail 429 was going to feel "vanilla" or boring like the Trek Fuel EX, boring this bike is not!

    The Trail 429 feels like one of those bikes that the harder you push it the better it gets. It's not necessarily incredible just pedaling along but once you really get aggressive on the bike, it responds really well and rewards the active and more aggressive rider. I remember the Santa Cruz 5010 being that exact same way. It wasn't all that fun unless I was pushing it... and that 5010 is hands down one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned! Some bikes have to be throttled to get the fun out of them and when you do, it's like you're riding a bike for the first time all over again and can't wipe the smile off your face. I think that speaks to how stiff and responsive this bike is!

    I have the bike for another week so as to make a 100 mile video review. It's safe to say I'm a lot more excited after my first ride then coming into it not knowing for sure what this bike was going to be like.


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  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    First ride on the Pivot Trail 429 this morning.

    Initial thoughts, the Trail 429 is incredibly responsive to rider input and the slightest touch of the pedals pushes this bike forward with a "let's do this" attitude.

    It's stiff, almost like a shorter travel race bike but with more suspension and better geometry. Like a better version of the Yeti SB 4.5 (which I loved by the way)

    Before my ride I sort of thought this bike was going to feel like the Ibis Ripley LS but after my first short ride, it's snappier and more playful then the Ripley. My concern coming into this demo ride was the Trail 429 was going to feel "vanilla" or boring like the Trek Fuel EX, boring this bike is not!

    The Trail 429 feels like one of those bikes that the harder you push it the better it gets. It's not necessarily incredible just pedaling along but once you really get aggressive on the bike, it responds really well and rewards the active and more aggressive rider. I remember the Santa Cruz 5010 being that exact same way. It wasn't all that fun unless I was pushing it... and that 5010 is hands down one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned! Some bikes have to be throttled to get the fun out of them and when you do, it's like you're riding a bike for the first time all over again and can't wipe the smile off your face. I think that speaks to how stiff and responsive this bike is!

    I have the bike for another week so as to make a 100 mile video review. It's safe to say I'm a lot more excited after my first ride then coming into it not knowing for sure what this bike was going to be like.


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    Thatís good enough for me Jason, thank you! Looking forward to seeing your video (love your channel by the way!) and this gets me even more excited about my test ride so I can figure it out for myself too!

  186. #186
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    Regarding weight: I think the 6.4 lb weight is with the DPX2 shock, so with the normal DPS shock it will likely weigh closer to 6.1 lbs. And also, I believe (read it once but donít know for sure) Pivot frames are weighed with the frame protectors, and Pivotís frame protectors are beeeeefy, so I think this new Pivotís weight is comparable to its competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    I think maybe it's too hard to have a DW Link, short CS, and tons of tire clearance without going to the 157 rear end. All the DW Link bikes seem to have to choose 3 out of the 4. Ibis does all that but with longer chainstays. Pivot had that, people complained about the long CS's and short front end, so they shortened the CS and something else had to give. I'm thinking the whole 157 spacing issue probably has little to do with stiffness, but more to do with shortening the rear while still allowing for the DW linkage and tire clearance. I would rather have seen them choose less clearance and not the Superduper boost. My 429 Trail was much better (for me) with 29' wheels.
    Interesting thought, but the Mojo3 has DW, 425cs, tire clearance for 2.8 and 148 rear spacing.


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  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradwin2 View Post
    Regarding weight: I think the 6.4 lb weight is with the DPX2 shock, so with the normal DPS shock it will likely weigh closer to 6.1 lbs. And also, I believe (read it once but donít know for sure) Pivot frames are weighed with the frame protectors, and Pivotís frame protectors are beeeeefy, so I think this new Pivotís weight is comparable to its competition.
    The weight thing is a bit carried away on this one. A sturdily build 29" trail bike frame coming in at less than 7# with a piggy back shock sounds pretty darn reasonable to me.

    If it were a xc race bike, sure it's weight would be a problem. While this exact bike may not be for me, I do trust Pivot in that they know what they are doing in regards to frame construction.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yupstate View Post
    Interesting thought, but the Mojo3 has DW, 425cs, tire clearance for 2.8 and 148 rear spacing.


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    I think I read the T429 will clear 3.0 on 27.5, and 2.6 on 29.


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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    First ride on the Pivot Trail 429 this morning.

    Initial thoughts, the Trail 429 is incredibly responsive to rider input and the slightest touch of the pedals pushes this bike forward with a "let's do this" attitude.

    It's stiff, almost like a shorter travel race bike but with more suspension and better geometry. Like a better version of the Yeti SB 4.5 (which I loved by the way)

    Before my ride I sort of thought this bike was going to feel like the Ibis Ripley LS but after my first short ride, it's snappier and more playful then the Ripley. My concern coming into this demo ride was the Trail 429 was going to feel "vanilla" or boring like the Trek Fuel EX, boring this bike is not!

    The Trail 429 feels like one of those bikes that the harder you push it the better it gets. It's not necessarily incredible just pedaling along but once you really get aggressive on the bike, it responds really well and rewards the active and more aggressive rider. I remember the Santa Cruz 5010 being that exact same way. It wasn't all that fun unless I was pushing it... and that 5010 is hands down one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned! Some bikes have to be throttled to get the fun out of them and when you do, it's like you're riding a bike for the first time all over again and can't wipe the smile off your face. I think that speaks to how stiff and responsive this bike is!

    I have the bike for another week so as to make a 100 mile video review. It's safe to say I'm a lot more excited after my first ride then coming into it not knowing for sure what this bike was going to be like.


    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

    I would like to here how it compares to the Evil Following. The geometries are about the same and both are over built for a 120mm bike. I figure the 429 is racier but is it fun like the following is said to be?

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    I would like to here how it compares to the Evil Following. The geometries are about the same and both are over built for a 120mm bike. I figure the 429 is racier but is it fun like the following is said to be?
    I should have a video review of the T429 in the next 2 weeks... you can see my Evil Following MB video review here: https://youtu.be/ZAVvpGba7Os

    The T429 feels very different from the Evil Following. The one I'm riding is almost 3 pounds lighter than the Following I demoed.... It makes a difference. The Trail 429 I'm demoing is a size Medium and weighs 27 lbs 11 oz with xtr trail pedals. With a nice light weight carbon wheels set this is a sub 27 lbs bike with pedals, not bad!

    The T429 is more responsive and feels quicker than the Following MB. The Following feels more plush everywhere, particularly on the slower speed chattery 6" stuff... this is the same with all Evil Delta link bikes I've ridden and think it's really cool but I don't particularly car for it as much on the Following as I do Evil's longer travel Wreckoning.

    I wan't my shorter travel bikes to be zippy and snappy feeling. Very responsive and lively. It's not that the Following wasn't poppy and responsive but compared with this new Trail 429, it feels borderline sluggish compared to this Trail 429. For example, on smother trails (most peoples typical trails) the T429 absolutely rails every corner and pumps every little elevation change in the terrain. Smash the pedals and it just response and feels laser focused ready to thump the next section of trail. The Following is less responsive and more just composed and ready to eat up the chattery section of trail when it comes. Both are good, I just prefer the feel of the T429 for this type of riding.

    The Following MB is a rad bike and feels like a bigger bike that the 120mm numbers would suggest... but at over 30 lbs for the X01 build and good trail tires I'd rather have just about any 140mm+ tavel 29er out there that will be more composed and stable at high speeds and not weigh any more than the Following... So for a shorter mid travel 29er, I like the characteristics of the Trail 429 a lot so far!
    Last edited by jason04; 05-23-2018 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    I should have a video review of the T429 in the next 2 weeks... you can see my Evil Following MB video review here: https://youtu.be/ZAVvpGba7Os

    The T429 feels very different from the Evil Following. The one I'm riding is almost 3 pounds lighter than the Following I demoed.... It makes a difference. The Trail 429 I'm demoing is a size Medium and weighs 27 lbs 11 oz with xtr trail pedals. With a nice light weight carbon wheels set this is a sub 27 lbs bike with pedals, not bad!

    The T429 is more responsive and feels quicker than the Following MB. The Following feels more plush everywhere, particularly on the slower speed chattery 6" stuff... this is the same with all Evil Delta link bikes I've ridden and think it's really cool but I don't particularly car for it as much on the Following as I do Evil's longer travel Wreckoning.

    I wan't my shorter travel bikes to be zippy and snappy feeling. Very responsive and lively. It's not that the Following wasn't poppy and responsive but compared with this new Trail 429, it feels boarder line sluggish compared to this Trail 429. For example, on smother trails (most peoples typical trails) the T429 absolutely rails every corner and pumps every little elevation change in the terrain. Smash the pedals and it just response and feels laser focused ready to thump the next section of trail. The Following is less responsive and more just composed and ready to eat up the chattery section of trail when it comes. Both are good, I just prefer the feel of the T429 for this type of riding.

    The Following MB is a rad bike and feels like a bigger bike that the 120mm numbers would suggest... but at over 30 lbs for the X01 build and good trail tires I'd rather have just about any 140mm+ tavel 29er out there that will be more composed and stable at high speeds and not weigh any more than the Following... So for a shorter mid travel 29er, I like the characteristics of the Trail 429 a lot so far!
    Great feedback.

    Thanks!

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yupstate View Post
    Interesting thought, but the Mojo3 has DW, 425cs, tire clearance for 2.8 and 148 rear spacing.


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    But not 29er-compatable.
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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    First ride on the Pivot Trail 429 this morning.

    Initial thoughts, the Trail 429 is incredibly responsive to rider input and the slightest touch of the pedals pushes this bike forward with a "let's do this" attitude.

    It's stiff, almost like a shorter travel race bike but with more suspension and better geometry. Like a better version of the Yeti SB 4.5 (which I loved by the way)

    Before my ride I sort of thought this bike was going to feel like the Ibis Ripley LS but after my first short ride, it's snappier and more playful then the Ripley. My concern coming into this demo ride was the Trail 429 was going to feel "vanilla" or boring like the Trek Fuel EX, boring this bike is not!

    The Trail 429 feels like one of those bikes that the harder you push it the better it gets. It's not necessarily incredible just pedaling along but once you really get aggressive on the bike, it responds really well and rewards the active and more aggressive rider. I remember the Santa Cruz 5010 being that exact same way. It wasn't all that fun unless I was pushing it... and that 5010 is hands down one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned! Some bikes have to be throttled to get the fun out of them and when you do, it's like you're riding a bike for the first time all over again and can't wipe the smile off your face. I think that speaks to how stiff and responsive this bike is!

    I have the bike for another week so as to make a 100 mile video review. It's safe to say I'm a lot more excited after my first ride then coming into it not knowing for sure what this bike was going to be like.


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    Iíve owned almost every Pivot FS bike out recently and snappy and playful havenít applied to a one of them. I now have a Ripley LS and HD4 that are miles snappier, poppier and more playful than the 429 Trail and 5.5 and Firebird. The Pivots are great bikes but more plow-thru-stuff bikes as opposed to dance and move and play around bikes IMO. In fact, most of the reviews Iíve seen of the Ibis bikes rave about how ďfunĒ and playful they are. Maybe Pivot changed their MO on this bike by changing up geo or leverage or some other ingredient in their secret sauce, and if so great, but Iím gonna have to throw a leg over one myself to see if itís more poppy and playful than the Ripley LS. Itís all subjective, anyway, so oneís poppy may be another oneís flexy or flimsy. But I DO hope youíre right.
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  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Iíve owned almost every Pivot FS bike out recently and snappy and playful havenít applied to a one of them. I now have a Ripley LS and HD4 that are miles snappier, poppier and more playful than the 429 Trail and 5.5 and Firebird. The Pivots are great bikes but more plow-thru-stuff bikes as opposed to dance and move and play around bikes IMO. In fact, most of the reviews Iíve seen of the Ibis bikes rave about how ďfunĒ and playful they are. Maybe Pivot changed their MO on this bike by changing up geo or leverage or some other ingredient in their secret sauce, and if so great, but Iím gonna have to throw a leg over one myself to see if itís more poppy and playful than the Ripley LS. Itís all subjective, anyway, so oneís poppy may be another oneís flexy or flimsy. But I DO hope youíre right.
    Completely agree. They seem to tune their bikes for that plush, stable feel. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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    Off topic but...

    If anyone buys this bike and doesn't want the Rekon 29x2.4 WT, I'd buy it from you. Apparently that's the only way to get this tire right now. Not even listed on Maxxis' website.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    I should have a video review of the T429 in the next 2 weeks... the T429 feels very different from the Evil Following...
    Jason, you gave a pretty glowing review of the OG Mach 429T, can you compare the two so far (or will you give a head2head of the two in your long term review)?

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by sternomac View Post
    Off topic but...

    If anyone buys this bike and doesn't want the Rekon 29x2.4 WT, I'd buy it from you. Apparently that's the only way to get this tire right now. Not even listed on Maxxis' website.
    I'd love some of those tires as well. Thing is, though, I've read and heard that the tires that come oem on bikes (for Maxxis, with the white MAXXIS logo) are made somewhere different with less quality materials and/or quality control, so as to be cheaper to provide on full bike builds. I know I've taken some off that were quite a bit heavier than their yellow-logo'd counterparts.
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  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Iíve owned almost every Pivot FS bike out recently and snappy and playful havenít applied to a one of them. I now have a Ripley LS and HD4 that are miles snappier, poppier and more playful than the 429 Trail and 5.5 and Firebird. The Pivots are great bikes but more plow-thru-stuff bikes as opposed to dance and move and play around bikes IMO. In fact, most of the reviews Iíve seen of the Ibis bikes rave about how ďfunĒ and playful they are. Maybe Pivot changed their MO on this bike by changing up geo or leverage or some other ingredient in their secret sauce, and if so great, but Iím gonna have to throw a leg over one myself to see if itís more poppy and playful than the Ripley LS. Itís all subjective, anyway, so oneís poppy may be another oneís flexy or flimsy. But I DO hope youíre right.
    Interesting... That's not been my experience. In fact, I rode the Mach 5.5 and Ibis HD4 back to back on the same ride for a few hours last week. Mach 5.5 was more poppy and playful and not as stable as the HD4. Every bike is different and the HD4 is much more similar to the Mach 6 but it was fun to ride them on the same trail back to back.

    The Ibis Ripley was for me the few times I've ridden it an incredible stable and balanced bike for only 120mm of travel. You could still jib around a bit and have fun popping off stuff but it wasn't as quick in the turns as this Trail 429 or as poppy and willing to get off the ground in my experience.

    I've got about 40 miles on the T429 and plan to ride it for another week or so!

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    I've got about 40 miles on the T429 and plan to ride it for another week or so!
    Looking forward to seeing your review, Jason. My son and I have demoed several bikes lately, including the previous Mach 429 Trail, and it's the one I keep thinking about. Just a blast to ride on the type of stuff we have around here. The new one should be even better.

    My sense from your videos is that, although you're a much better rider than I am, we tend to like the same kind of bike. I'm seriously considering either a Trail 429 or a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt.

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