New Pivot Mach 4 SL - Page 2- Mtbr.com
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 201 to 380 of 380
  1. #201
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    138

    Demo Ride Pivot Mach 4 SL

    I just had a blast on a demo ride of the new Pivot Mach 4 SL.



    Here is a video of my demo ride on YouTube:

    https://youtu.be/qzNwyQn1A7E

    Felt so familiar. I've been riding XC bikes for 20 years. And demoing a lot of the new trail bikes, which are cool, but feel "heavy, long, and clumsy". To be fair, it was strange moving from 26 to 29 inch wheels ... and I'd adjust to anything with enough time.

    But the feel of the Mach 4 SL felt great.

    This bike climbed great. So light. Flew up the mountain. Only rode on steep fire road due to weather, but gearing did awesome. XTR 11-46 was flawless. Like to see this bike with new XTR 10-51 for the super steep.

    On downhill, felt surprisingly stable, event with the 2.2 tires. Like the slacker head angle 67.5 with 120 fork (than my current 69.8 HTA Chisel). XT brakes did very well - smooth operating - with bite.

    Cool machine.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #202
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Anyone know of a company doing laser cut frame protection kits for the M4SL yet?

    Looking for a kit in XL

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    My XL Frame arrived today.
    Time for build to start
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot Mach 4 SL-pivot-frame.jpg  


  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    My XL Frame arrived today.
    Time for build to start
    Nice. Can you Post your Part List?


    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

  5. #205
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    My XL Frame arrived today.
    Time for build to start
    Nice. What's the weight as pictured?

  6. #206
    Having a nice day!
    Reputation: LoneStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,369
    I really see one of these in my future.

  7. #207
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    117
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    My XL Frame arrived today.
    Time for build to start
    How are people getting frames? I was told frames wouldn't be available until later this fall...

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    107
    Nice. Let us know how the 2 water bottles might fit. Interested in weight as well. I remember unpacking my Large 429 frame/shock back in 2009. It was something like 7.2lbs. They've come a long way.

  9. #209
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    My XL Frame arrived today.
    Time for build to start
    Can you weigh it please?

  10. #210
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    50
    Wondering if anyone has made the SL more trail capable: 2.4 tires, shorter stem/wider bars... I want the lightest/fastest trail bike possible. It's this or a Ripley gen 4, which has a bit more travel, but is still light and efficient.

    thoughts?

  11. #211
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    won't go wrong with either. lightest fastest TRAIL bike is the Ripley.

    ibis is a very light bike for 120mm and is very easy to put an angleset and large tires in/on if so desired. can easily take a 140mm fork as well.


    -more dropper clearance
    -modular ISCG adapter (removable if not needed)
    -BSA bottom bracket (though i prefer a well-executed pressfit a la Pivot)
    -fitting-free cable system that has been rattle-free so far (not as engineered as Pivot's solution, but no small parts to get loose or seize/strip or bolt bosses bonded into the frame)

  12. #212
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    50
    Can't go wrong with either... Agreed for sure.

    I've demo'ed both.

    - SL felt too XC for New England tech, but great fit.
    - Ripley rode tech great, but the fit was funky: my ass was hanging off the back, which I suspect was due to steep SA...

    So the SL seemed a better fit, but not perfect for my trails. The Ripley seemed better for my trails, but not a perfect fit.

    That steep SA scares me...

  13. #213
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    Nice. What's the weight as pictured?
    Not sure how accurate my scales are they are rated for up to 250kg
    Came in at 2650 grams with dual lockout lever and cables attached

  14. #214
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by WildeSuchtelei View Post
    Nice. Can you Post your Part List?
    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro
    Yer for sure, once I work it all out.
    I've got fox 34 sc with 3 position switch, not really interested in fork lockout and really probably won't be locking the rear much but cable is installed so I will go with it for know.
    At 100kg (220)lb and mid 40's if I'm locking out for a sprint finish it is to get in front of someone at the beer tent not the podium.
    I'm using 30mm id carbon wheels that are currently on my RM Instinct fitted with maxxis Forkaster 2.35 front and Ardent race 2.35 rear
    Also RF Next R bars off my Instinct cut to 780
    AXS XX1 drive line with AB 34 oval ring.
    Not being a light weight brakes are going to be 4 piston with 180mm rotors both ends.

  15. #215
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    Wondering if anyone has made the SL more trail capable: 2.4 tires, shorter stem/wider bars... I want the lightest/fastest trail bike possible. It's this or a Ripley gen 4, which has a bit more travel, but is still light and efficient.

    thoughts?
    Watch this space 2.35 tyres and 780 bars not sure on stem yet I'm 6'2

  16. #216
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    Not sure how accurate my scales are they are rated for up to 250kg
    Came in at 2650 grams with dual lockout lever and cables attached
    Pivot makes a great bike, but that's alot closer to Ripley weight than it is to a top-level XCO bike.

  17. #217
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chicane32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    Pivot makes a great bike, but that's alot closer to Ripley weight than it is to a top-level XCO bike.
    Ya, it weighs the same as the SB100. L black weighs 5.6 pounds and the Yeti took a ton of flak for weeks due to itís weight. Funny how this bike weighs the same and itís marketed as a top level race bike and the complaints have been non existent. Then again, so has the responses/ activity in this thread.

  18. #218
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    Ya, it weighs the same as the SB100. L black weighs 5.6 pounds and the Yeti took a ton of flak for weeks due to itís weight. Funny how this bike weighs the same and itís marketed as a top level race bike and the complaints have been non existent. Then again, so has the responses/ activity in this thread.
    The SB100 was the other bike i was considering before going for the Pivot.

  19. #219
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by AlienSP View Post
    Nice. Let us know how the 2 water bottles might fit. Interested in weight as well. I remember unpacking my Large 429 frame/shock back in 2009. It was something like 7.2lbs. They've come a long way.
    Plenty of options for water bottles. 5 mounting points on XL about 30cm between top and bottom bolts with plenty of room above top bolt.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot Mach 4 SL-mount.jpg  


  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by tlechnow View Post
    How are people getting frames? I was told frames wouldn't be available until later this fall...
    Yer not sure i'm in Australia, walked into my local pivot dealer on 15 june to ask about frame availability. they contacted Aus importer and got back to me next day that it was only available in Team Blue and could have an XL around 4th July, so i put down a deposit.
    On 4th i got a phone call to advise that it had been pushed back to 12th.
    12th came and went than recieved a call on the 16th to say frame was at importers and was with courier to the dealer. picked it up on the 19th.
    Other than that i have know idea, maybe an extra from team rider allocations. just guessing

  21. #221
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    Can't go wrong with either... Agreed for sure.

    I've demo'ed both.

    - SL felt too XC for New England tech, but great fit.
    - Ripley rode tech great, but the fit was funky: my ass was hanging off the back, which I suspect was due to steep SA...

    So the SL seemed a better fit, but not perfect for my trails. The Ripley seemed better for my trails, but not a perfect fit.

    That steep SA scares me...
    I am in that same vein of thinking and it would be awesome if Pivot came out with a Trail429 SL with high modulus carbon fiber and got it closer to weight total in comparison to the Ripley


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeti SB4.5c
    Pivot Mach 5.5
    CCM Ice Hockey Skates

  22. #222
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mucker View Post
    My medium Mach 4 SL build with full XTR, DT Swiss carbon wheels, stock aspen tires, uncut flat bars, 34 stepcast, lockout, and stock dropper came to 22 lbs, 15 ounces without pedals using the shops scale.

    I tried to weigh it at home with my crappy luggage scale with time carbon pedals and it was about 23.5-23.8 lbs.

    I'd post a review but I'm not great at describing ride qualities. But I came from a 429sl and the new Mach 4 SL has a racier feel to it.
    It this a team or world cup? You say dropper and Aspen tires. I thought the world cup has Aspen's but not a dropper nor a SC34. Thanks!!

  23. #223
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by peteshoe View Post
    It this a team or world cup? You say dropper and Aspen tires. I thought the world cup has Aspen's but not a dropper nor a SC34. Thanks!!
    I have a mashup between the team and world cup.

    There was a miscommunication and a world cup showed up at the shop. The mechanic who was going to build the bike knew I wanted the SC34 and texted me. They ordered a SC34 with the matching graphics and the transfer dropper post from Pivot.

    It all worked out in the end for me and I got the best of both builds.

    I was set on the team build but didn't want the Ardent Races and riser bar. I really wanted the flat bar but was going to live with the riser bars since they had such a small rise. I also was planning on selling the Ardent Race tires and putting Icons on it but I've been using the Aspens and really liking them.
    Last edited by Mucker; 07-21-2019 at 05:59 PM.

  24. #224
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mucker View Post
    I also was planning on selling the Ardent Race tires and putting Icons on it but I've been using the Aspens and really liking them.
    Hi Mucker, not trying to side track this thread BUT could i get your opinion of Ardent Race V Icon. I've never been a race tyre type of guy on my trail bike i had Forkaster front and rear and on the last 4 day stage race i did i put an Ardent Race on the rear went really well, just looking for comparison.

    Mal

  25. #225
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    Hi Mucker, not trying to side track this thread BUT could i get your opinion of Ardent Race V Icon. I've never been a race tyre type of guy on my trail bike i had Forkaster front and rear and on the last 4 day stage race i did i put an Ardent Race on the rear went really well, just looking for comparison.

    Mal
    Sorry but I've never ridden the Ardent Race tires. I was planning on selling them because I have a set of Icons sitting here but decided to give the Aspens a chance. I have friends that have used AR tires and were not fond of them for where we ride. Most people I know use Icons.

  26. #226
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mucker View Post
    Sorry but I've never ridden the Ardent Race tires. I was planning on selling them because I have a set of Icons sitting here but decided to give the Aspens a chance. I have friends that have used AR tires and were not fond of them for where we ride. Most people I know use Icons.
    Thanks might give one a go when the Ardent wornout.

  27. #227
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Okay, first time poster here. I just got my Mach 4 SL in a Large Stealth color, 34 stepcast fork and No Live Valve. The second wave for frames just came in. I never buy the first gen of a new tech like Live Valve. I remember when Dura Ace electric came out. 2 years later, they released 2.0 and it was a million times more refined.

    I couple of things of note that it seems people keep asking on this forum:

    I am 6'1" and after a lot of questioning of the people at Pivot and also studying the geo charts and comparing them to my past bikes, I chose the Large. It fits me perfect. I would not want it any bigger. I think if you are 6'2" you will be right on the edge. Any taller and the XL is probably for you.

    The bike is the Team XTR and it weighs 25.75pds with XTR Pedals. It's a little heavier than I would have expected for such an expensive bike, but then I realize I can lose 15lbs of weight off my body and I forget about the extra 1.5lbs I wish the bike could have shed. And I am pretty sure I am not going pro anytime soon.

    The attention to detail is very apparent. I like the slight riser bars. The seat is not Ti or Carbon, but I went and looked at some Ti and Carbon seats and they were about 80 - 100grams less in weight and not worth the $300+ price tag to switch out.

    The cabling is definitely crowded with the dropper and the lockout. The dropper wiring is very weird and ugly. Not sure how to do it differently though. The lockout really locks out hard, which is great.

    Happy to answer any questions.

  28. #228
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11
    I just got my medium X01 Mach 4 SL setup and it came in at 26lbs 7oz with eggbeater pedals which is not bad since I also have the Mach 429 sl without a dropper post and it weighs almost the exact same. So I am pretty happy.
    I was not too thrilled with the look of the remote lockout and the additional cables so I took all of that off. I have never used the lockout on my 429 sl so not much need for it on the new ride. Removing the remote lockout was pretty simple. Before removing the cables I paint marked the location of the cable setscrew when the suspension was not lockout. I reused the cable from the lockout to hold the position open.
    I have not had much time to ride it yet, as soon as I do will give a little review comparing it to the 429 sl especially since this will be my first dropper! I started out on the original aluminum Mach 4 with 26" wheels and every new pivot has been better than the previous!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot Mach 4 SL-thumbnail_20190723_180518_resized.jpg  

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-thumbnail_20190723_184349_resized.jpg  

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-thumbnail_20190723_185956_resized.jpg  

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-thumbnail_20190723_184617_resized.jpg  

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-img_0085.jpg  


  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    29
    I expected it to be lighter.


    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

  30. #230
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    Okay, first time poster here. I just got my Mach 4 SL in a Large Stealth color, 34 stepcast fork and No Live Valve. The second wave for frames just came in. I never buy the first gen of a new tech like Live Valve. I remember when Dura Ace electric came out. 2 years later, they released 2.0 and it was a million times more refined.

    I couple of things of note that it seems people keep asking on this forum:

    I am 6'1" and after a lot of questioning of the people at Pivot and also studying the geo charts and comparing them to my past bikes, I chose the Large. It fits me perfect. I would not want it any bigger. I think if you are 6'2" you will be right on the edge. Any taller and the XL is probably for you.

    The bike is the Team XTR and it weighs 25.75pds with XTR Pedals. It's a little heavier than I would have expected for such an expensive bike, but then I realize I can lose 15lbs of weight off my body and I forget about the extra 1.5lbs I wish the bike could have shed. And I am pretty sure I am not going pro anytime soon.

    The attention to detail is very apparent. I like the slight riser bars. The seat is not Ti or Carbon, but I went and looked at some Ti and Carbon seats and they were about 80 - 100grams less in weight and not worth the $300+ price tag to switch out.

    The cabling is definitely crowded with the dropper and the lockout. The dropper wiring is very weird and ugly. Not sure how to do it differently though. The lockout really locks out hard, which is great.

    Happy to answer any questions.


    As a follow up, I was pondering the weight of the bike and that it came in a couple pounds more than I would have thought a $9000 xc rig would weigh. I did some back of the napkin calcs and basically if I switched out the dropper post for a carbon post, the seat to a carbon railed seat, the 34 fork to a 32 fork , put carbon tube/stem spacers in place of the alu ones it comes with and finally, switched out the lock grips for the super light ESI grips, - all of which are typical on a normal XC rig, the bike would save approximately 2.25lbs, making the bike weigh about 23.5 lbs. That is a respectable weight for a full travel xc race bike.

    However, those 2lbs aren't worth not having a dropper and the much stiffer, longer travel 34 fork. It is definitely a trade off, but worth it to me.

    Finally, I am very glad I went with the longer fork with a slacker head angle. It is hardly noticable except when things get a little dicey going down, the bike feels so much more like a trail bike than my past XC rigs that feel twitchy and the slightest mistake sends you down a line you did not prefer.

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    29
    If you are happy with your decision everything is good!

    Love to see a sub 10kg build in the future.




    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

  32. #232
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    As a follow up, I was pondering the weight of the bike and that it came in a couple pounds more than I would have thought a $9000 xc rig would weigh. I did some back of the napkin calcs and basically if I switched out the dropper post for a carbon post, the seat to a carbon railed seat, the 34 fork to a 32 fork , put carbon tube/stem spacers in place of the alu ones it comes with and finally, switched out the lock grips for the super light ESI grips, - all of which are typical on a normal XC rig, the bike would save approximately 2.25lbs, making the bike weigh about 23.5 lbs. That is a respectable weight for a full travel xc race bike.

    However, those 2lbs aren't worth not having a dropper and the much stiffer, longer travel 34 fork. It is definitely a trade off, but worth it to me.

    Finally, I am very glad I went with the longer fork with a slacker head angle. It is hardly noticable except when things get a little dicey going down, the bike feels so much more like a trail bike than my past XC rigs that feel twitchy and the slightest mistake sends you down a line you did not prefer.
    Donít forget some sweet carbon wheels can shave a close to a pound from your weight as well.. best to spend $$$ there first


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeti SB4.5c
    Pivot Mach 5.5
    CCM Ice Hockey Skates

  33. #233
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by jalea View Post
    Donít forget some sweet carbon wheels can shave a close to a pound from your weight as well.. best to spend $$$ there first


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    It comes with the carbon DT Swiss 1200 which are sweet.

  34. #234
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    This is why I don't order/buy a built bike. Only by controlling all the parts can you build it how you want. I'm as specific as the spokes and nipples that I want to use, it all adds up. This way I can do it without compromising strength.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  35. #235
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,737

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL

    If you built it up from a frame, you could build a <24lb bike with a dropper and 34 SC for $7k.
    Death from Below.

  36. #236
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    If you built it up from a frame, you could build a <24lb bike with a dropper and 34 SC for $7k.
    I can't believe that. The frame and fork will be $4500 minimum. Any decent carbon wheel set that is reliable and light is going to run you min of $1500. So now you are at $6k without tax. You have $800 before tax to buy dropper, full gruppo with crank set, stem, handlebar, seat, tires. I just don't see it.

    I tried to piece out buying the Specialized epic frame and I could not get it within $2000 to just buy it whole.

    The frame manufacturers have too good of deals with the parts guys and also make some of the parts themselves. They are not trying to reach a certain margin on each part, just the whole bike.

  37. #237
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    if it's your first top level bike. most people at least carry over seat bars and stem i think. for instance, Ibis specs Enve cockpit stuff on their top level builds. huge waste of money. and you can build dt swiss 240 on light bicycle carbon for less than $1200.

    you can buy parts through something like universal cycles (large QBP dealer) who offer 15% discount for large purchases.

    and even if you break even (which you won't; you'll save up to $3K), you get the added benefits of getting the exact parts you want and experiencing the joy of building your own bike.

    somebody on pinkbike mentioned that some of these builds frame makers are putting out are going to push large groups of people back to building their own like compaq and HP did w/ computers lol. so many trash commodity components that have to be swapped out straight away if you ride hard.

  38. #238
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    if it's your first top level bike. most people at least carry over seat bars and stem i think. for instance, Ibis specs Enve cockpit stuff on their top level builds. huge waste of money. and you can build dt swiss 240 on light bicycle carbon for less than $1200.

    you can buy parts through something like universal cycles (large QBP dealer) who offer 15% discount for large purchases.

    and even if you break even (which you won't; you'll save up to $3K), you get the added benefits of getting the exact parts you want and experiencing the joy of building your own bike.

    somebody on pinkbike mentioned that some of these builds frame makers are putting out are going to push large groups of people back to building their own like compaq and HP did w/ computers lol. so many trash commodity components that have to be swapped out straight away if you ride hard.
    Yep, and little tweaks like less front spokes or thinner front spokes because the front doesn't see as much stress as the rear, which typically doesn't happen on factory/mass-produced wheelsets, not matching the front/rear hub brand/model, but going just based on value/weight (like I'm running a DT 240 front/180 rear on one wheelset, XTR front/240 rear on the other). I sourced a DT 180 a year or so ago for a real good deal, been running that for a while. Shimano may be out with their new M91234x brakes and you may be able to get deals on things like the slightly older M9000 still brand new. Build it with X01 or XX1 11spd to save weight without sacrificing performance/durability.

    You can still build a top-tier machine, save a few bucks, be lighter and cheaper. The cheaper doesn't always work out, depending on what you want, but the back-up is that you get to build it exactly how you want, which is equally important considering you can come out pounds less.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  39. #239
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    Any decent carbon wheel set that is reliable and light is going to run you min of $1500.
    bull$hit. Sorry, but that's completely false. I just built one on Nextie's site for about 1K, and I could do it myself cheaper most likely by sourcing some hub deals (go cheaper on the front because there's no need for a 240 up front).

    And if you are worried about reliability, you better talk to my Nextie rims that I've ran on everything from DH race to XC and everything in between, relacing them about 4x for different purposes, the same rims from 2013. I have many more nextie/LB/oxive wheelsets, but these are just my oldest. I've pounded the hell out of them in Cat1, so if they were going to fail, they would have by now. Companies like LB are the ones building the "high end" wheels on the bikes as "brand name" stuff.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #240
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    bull$hit. Sorry, but that's completely false. I just built one on Nextie's site for about 1K, and I could do it myself cheaper most likely by sourcing some hub deals (go cheaper on the front because there's no need for a 240 up front).

    And if you are worried about reliability, you better talk to my Nextie rims that I've ran on everything from DH race to XC and everything in between, relacing them about 4x for different purposes, the same rims from 2013. I have many more nextie/LB/oxive wheelsets, but these are just my oldest. I've pounded the hell out of them in Cat1, so if they were going to fail, they would have by now.
    I said decent, yo. Even with cheepies from China where you save $500 and put your downhilling life in jeopardy, there is still not way you build for $7000 with top quality - XTR, etc...

  41. #241
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    I said decent, yo
    You have no idea what decent is for wheelsets evidently. I build wheels, I have broken wheels and am familiar with failure modes, but I need my wheels to not come apart or fail when I'm racing and riding hard. I don't need to go into my "racing resume", but I'm plenty confident saying that if there were issues with these wheels, I would have found them by now...years down the road.

    What is "top quality"?

    I have one bike with some XTR bits, I have a few other XTR bits interspersed between bikes. I can get 11spd X01 cassettes cheaper than XTR 12, and they are significantly lighter. Quality IME is better on the X01 stuff, better shifting (less effort) very responsive, great longevity. XX1 only gives you a different finish, but IME, these are all "top quality" parts. It's just if you want to spend more money for the luxury of 12 speeds, which I have yet to find a situation where I need, especially racing. What about pedals, is the preimum of XTR worth the 5 or so g it saves over XT? Probably not. If you like CB pedals, that's a no-brainer weight-saving part.

    Top quality means reliable, functional and for racing, light. That doesn't mean XTR.

    You seem to want a homogeneous build. Or maybe "top quality" is what you can spend the most money on?

    In some cases, it makes sense to go with a certain component/brand, in others, they are much heavier or in some cases, they flat out suck. Shimano has tried to get close to the carbon-cranks as far as weight, but close isn't as light and if you are about shaving grams and meeting a target weight, you need to buy the right parts for your build. Same with rear XD, it's lighter and it works wonderful, especially in 11spd, with lower-profile derailleurs (less exposure) and lighter cassettes. I've weighed several of my new X01 cassettes and they are 265g, almost 100g lighter than the advertised weight for a "top end" 12spd shimano. SRAM chains are typically bad deals as far as price/weight value, I can get a hollow-pin XTR for $30 all day long, far better deal than $50 or more. These components and choices are significant. Then there's things like dropper posts and saddles, you can build with something like the bikeyoke divine to get a relatively lightweight serviceable post that functions amazing, rather than some heavy off-the-shelf transfer post that will crap out in a season. Again, you may not save money in all of these cases, but rarely will you pay more and you'll meet your targets with more function. This is what "weight weenie" is all about IMO, not trying to be the lightest and sacrificing function, but finding the best combination that doesn't give up anything for the intended purpose. Going with the OEM build, you're just going with a major component package that doesn't take this into account to the same extent. In some cases, it's for commonality between component lines, ease of mass-production, and other reasons.

    Also, you have to be competing pretty high for component weight and performance differences to make "a difference" in your time. Lighter bikes and less rotational mass is always great and always helps, but when building your own bike, you get to "tune" it to your exact needs. Case in point, I was running a weight weenie Next SL bar with a weight weenie Ritchey steem. The stem was less than 100g, the bar 180g, but the bar was a short 720 or so mm. I put a Synchros Hixon SL on there at 780mm, it only saved 5g, but it's "enduro" level of strength, and I would have needed a stem and a bar anways, because I was done dealing with the ritchey T20 bolts (not T25) and clamp area that prevents just taking the bar out when packaging the bike in a box for a vacation. This Hixon may have cost more, but not much more than a high-end stem-bar combo, but I was able to get exactly what I wanted, in the width that I wanted. On an OEM build, I would have ended up with something too narrow that I would have had to take a loss on and switch out anyway, right?

    It's not for everyone(building a frame), but for me it's to get exactly what I want, not as much about cost, that's a bit more secondary for me, but still important.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    I said decent, yo. Even with cheepies from China where you save $500 and put your downhilling life in jeopardy, there is still not way you build for $7000 with top quality - XTR, etc...
    you can build a world class bike for 7k very easily.

    re cheapies from china - luescher teknik did an ultrasound comparo b/w an LB rim and an Enve rim; guess which one had more voids.

  43. #243
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Situation in Europe is a bit absurd at the moment. Complete bikes will sell for a higher price than the sum of all components is. It wouldn't bother me as I like to build up my bikes starting with frame/fork only. But framekits are not available at the moment; at least in Germany.

  44. #244
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    you can build a world class bike for 7k very easily.

    re cheapies from china - luescher teknik did an ultrasound comparo b/w an LB rim and an Enve rim; guess which one had more voids.
    Enve's have always sucked. They are a marketing scheme. More Enve's come back to my LBS than any other rim, but they don't sell the chinese ones either.

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    You have no idea what decent is for wheelsets evidently. I build wheels, I have broken wheels and am familiar with failure modes, but I need my wheels to not come apart or fail when I'm racing and riding hard. I don't need to go into my "racing resume", but I'm plenty confident saying that if there were issues with these wheels, I would have found them by now...years down the road.

    What is "top quality"?

    I have one bike with some XTR bits, I have a few other XTR bits interspersed between bikes. I can get 11spd X01 cassettes cheaper than XTR 12, and they are significantly lighter. Quality IME is better on the X01 stuff, better shifting (less effort) very responsive, great longevity. XX1 only gives you a different finish, but IME, these are all "top quality" parts. It's just if you want to spend more money for the luxury of 12 speeds, which I have yet to find a situation where I need, especially racing. What about pedals, is the preimum of XTR worth the 5 or so g it saves over XT? Probably not. If you like CB pedals, that's a no-brainer weight-saving part.

    Top quality means reliable, functional and for racing, light. That doesn't mean XTR.

    You seem to want a homogeneous build. Or maybe "top quality" is what you can spend the most money on?

    In some cases, it makes sense to go with a certain component/brand, in others, they are much heavier or in some cases, they flat out suck. Shimano has tried to get close to the carbon-cranks as far as weight, but close isn't as light and if you are about shaving grams and meeting a target weight, you need to buy the right parts for your build. Same with rear XD, it's lighter and it works wonderful, especially in 11spd, with lower-profile derailleurs (less exposure) and lighter cassettes. I've weighed several of my new X01 cassettes and they are 265g, almost 100g lighter than the advertised weight for a "top end" 12spd shimano. SRAM chains are typically bad deals as far as price/weight value, I can get a hollow-pin XTR for $30 all day long, far better deal than $50 or more. These components and choices are significant. Then there's things like dropper posts and saddles, you can build with something like the bikeyoke divine to get a relatively lightweight serviceable post that functions amazing, rather than some heavy off-the-shelf transfer post that will crap out in a season. Again, you may not save money in all of these cases, but rarely will you pay more and you'll meet your targets with more function. This is what "weight weenie" is all about IMO, not trying to be the lightest and sacrificing function, but finding the best combination that doesn't give up anything for the intended purpose. Going with the OEM build, you're just going with a major component package that doesn't take this into account to the same extent. In some cases, it's for commonality between component lines, ease of mass-production, and other reasons.

    Also, you have to be competing pretty high for component weight and performance differences to make "a difference" in your time. Lighter bikes and less rotational mass is always great and always helps, but when building your own bike, you get to "tune" it to your exact needs. Case in point, I was running a weight weenie Next SL bar with a weight weenie Ritchey steem. The stem was less than 100g, the bar 180g, but the bar was a short 720 or so mm. I put a Synchros Hixon SL on there at 780mm, it only saved 5g, but it's "enduro" level of strength, and I would have needed a stem and a bar anways, because I was done dealing with the ritchey T20 bolts (not T25) and clamp area that prevents just taking the bar out when packaging the bike in a box for a vacation. This Hixon may have cost more, but not much more than a high-end stem-bar combo, but I was able to get exactly what I wanted, in the width that I wanted. On an OEM build, I would have ended up with something too narrow that I would have had to take a loss on and switch out anyway, right?

    It's not for everyone(building a frame), but for me it's to get exactly what I want, not as much about cost, that's a bit more secondary for me, but still important.


    Geez dude, I didn't mean to get you riled up to where you had to write a novel. Good write up though and I learned few things. There are some expensive parts on your list though like the Devine dropper that I still think would make it difficult to build for $7k, especially if you are buying at all retail pricing. But hey, I am sure it can be done if there is enough patience and some deals were found.

    A cool thing about Pivot is that they had a lot of different builds to chose from and also mixed and matched within those builds. For me, I had to go XTR because of their brakes. I have literally had to replace the last 5 sets of SRAM brakes because of how bad they sucked (I actually do have the very new SRAM brakes on my stumpy and they seem to work better).

    Again, good write up.

  46. #246
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    And I wouldn't go XTR brakes myself, I've had a few fail and the lack of replacement parts (seals) is the final straw. I've had shimano brakes fail on vacation which is especially annoying. I have 2 sets of XTR right now and 3 sets shimano total, plus some SLX spares, but I'm going to slowly phase them out due to the wandering bite-point, pad-contamination when sitting for a few weeks, and lack of replacement parts issues. I've had to replace a few sets, one was warrantied, but all are out of warranty now. But that just goes back to reasons to not buy a built bike for me, to get it the way I want it. I too wouldn't take the chance with SRAM brakes.

    The thing wasn't for me to show where I can spend a lot of money though, it was to show that I will build a bike up the way I want, considering cost as one of the factors. One of the things we get wrapped up in IMO is "marginal gains". Sometimes, a product comes along that is a game-changer, but for the ones that aren't, marketing and the industry will do everything in their power to convince us that the "marginal improvement" is some sort of game changer. Shimano finally making a 12speed setup when SRAM has been doing it "forever" with the better x-dome cassette construction and interface is not a game-changer. It's a marginal improvement to what's out there and 12 is just one more than 11. This applies to lots of the "latest and greatest", the newest XTR rotors, the newest carbon rim, the newest pedal, etc. I'm not saying buy 10 year old stuff or stuff that is about to be totally unsupported, but by building your own bike smartly you can end up with a machine just as, or more than, capable than the top-shelf OEM spec.

    You make a good point though, that sometimes the manufacturer spec DOES tick the boxes you want or comes close enough, so it makes a lot of sense to get it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  47. #247
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bizango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    356
    Anybody have frame weights for Large (and/or Mediums)? I'm sure the Pivot spec'd weight is for a smaller frame.

  48. #248
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    117
    Quote Originally Posted by bizango View Post
    Anybody have frame weights for Large (and/or Mediums)? I'm sure the Pivot spec'd weight is for a smaller frame.
    Somebody on here (on the first page) posted their large frame with shock remote and all covers, but no seat collar or rear axle was 2450g. I haven't seen a weight for a medium frame posted yet.

  49. #249
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    What's your take on the fork? 32 vs 34?
    I am a 140lbs xc racer but the weight penalty of the 34sc doesn't seem to be excessive. Which one would you prefer?

  50. #250
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by chilla13 View Post
    What's your take on the fork? 32 vs 34?
    I am a 140lbs xc racer but the weight penalty of the 34sc doesn't seem to be excessive. Which one would you prefer?
    Iím 165 and in most races I prefer my 32sc. For the 100 miler this weekend, I go 34sc. I found the damping on my 32 to be better too, that always trumps IME.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  51. #251
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Can anyone tell me how the remotes are actually set up on the bars? I don't want to start the whole remote/no remote debate again. But can the two remotes be handled together with the rockshox twistloc (that's how they had it set up on the new Trek Top Fuel that I was checking out last night). I don't really mind the remotes, but I would REALLY mind if I had to run one of those silly vertical dropper levers and not a nice wolf tooth or something similar. Seems like the twistloc would solve some bar-clutter issues.

  52. #252
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Bar clutter is one of my biggest complaints about this bike, although it is a little thing in the whole scheme of things. The way they have it set up is on the left side there is the lock out under the bars which has two cables coming out of it. The dropper post is the crazy part which is located on the same side and has this metal guide that guides it over the brake. Super ugly. If you could do the twist with a dropper underneath that would be ideal.

  53. #253
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    330
    Not a lock-out fan, but the twistloc on the new Treks I've looked at is absolutely the cleanest setup I've seen with fr/r lockouts so far.

    Out of the way so you can run an under bar dropper lever.

  54. #254
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Yes, I was very impressed with the twistloc on the Trek TopFuel 9.8 I had my leg over.

    Sounds like there is nothing inherently restricting the use of the TwistLoc on the Mach4SL, but it doesn't ship with it. The RockShox page has no information about compatibility, it just notes that you can get a curved or straight cable guide depending on the brakes you are using (https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/models/rm-tloc-a1). The page on Jenson says "Works with forks and shocks that are compatible with OneLoc". I have no idea what OneLoc is nor how to find compatibility.

    I'm going to assume compatibility, since the Trek was running a 34SC fork and DPS rear shock, just like the Pivot.

    Anyone from Pivot want to chime in and confirm? I know it's little, but if I had to use one of those vertical levers for the dropper I would seriously consider a different bike.

  55. #255
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    139
    Curious about your opinions of the top fuel vs the Mach 4? I rode both and chose the top fuel. Wasnít as impressed with the pivot as I hoped to be. If I was building strictly for racing I would have probably chose the pivot with a 32. I didnít like it very much with the longer travel 34 though.

  56. #256
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Brodon View Post
    Curious about your opinions of the top fuel vs the Mach 4? I rode both and chose the top fuel. Wasnít as impressed with the pivot as I hoped to be. If I was building strictly for racing I would have probably chose the pivot with a 32. I didnít like it very much with the longer travel 34 though.
    Unfortunately I didn't get to ride the Trek, I just got to check it out in the shop. I'm not going to ever be able to demo any of these bikes in my short list (Pivot, Top Fuel, SC Blur) because there just don't seem to be any demos around.

    However, the Trek did look really tight. I had them put it on the scale, 26 lbs 14 oz with the super heavy GX cassette, GX crank, and 2.4 inch bontrager tires with tubes. Would likely lose a pound with a few upgrades there. Really nice looking bike, very solid.

    I'm really tempted by the trek, as it would be a great lightweight trail bike for my area (PNW). However, I already have a heavyweight trail bike (SC Bronson), so I feel like I want my next bike to be as 'different as possible', if that makes any sense. Also, I think the Trek will pedal very well, but I KNOW the DW-Link will really feel good.

  57. #257
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by ccftri View Post
    Yes, I was very impressed with the twistloc on the Trek TopFuel 9.8 I had my leg over.

    Sounds like there is nothing inherently restricting the use of the TwistLoc on the Mach4SL, but it doesn't ship with it. The RockShox page has no information about compatibility, it just notes that you can get a curved or straight cable guide depending on the brakes you are using (https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/models/rm-tloc-a1). The page on Jenson says "Works with forks and shocks that are compatible with OneLoc". I have no idea what OneLoc is nor how to find compatibility.

    I'm going to assume compatibility, since the Trek was running a 34SC fork and DPS rear shock, just like the Pivot.
    I am doing frame up build on M4SL and running 34SC without lockout if i keep the DPS with remote i will be looking at twistloc to keep under bar dropper remote.

  58. #258
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    139
    For people who use the lockouts a lot, which I would imagine would be the majority of people buying this bike, the fox shifter style lockouts with a lev style dropper lever mounted upside down should make a lot of sense. The TwistLoc is slick but unreliable from what Iíve seen.

  59. #259
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    Regarding the discussion on the Mach vs the Trek. I looked at the Trek closely and was very tempted to buy (my local trek dealer is the greatest guy as well and I wanted to give him my business), however it was a solid $1200 more and there was no build selection. At the top, you had to go with SRAM. It really came down to being burned too many times by SRAM breaks. Buying the Trek and then switching out to XTR breaks meant a $2000 swing and there is also the mental aspect of buying a top end $10k bike and having to pay to switch out sucky breaks - that is a tool. I also think XTR is a little more durable.

    I can't figure out for the life of me why Treks are so expensive. They make most of their parts in house. They build at scale. Even looking at the top end Trek road bike vs the S works Tarmac and the Trek is going to cost an extra grand or more. Then there is the whole Lance - Lemond issue as well but I won't get in to that.

  60. #260
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon1 View Post
    Regarding the discussion on the Mach vs the Trek. I looked at the Trek closely and was very tempted to buy (my local trek dealer is the greatest guy as well and I wanted to give him my business), however it was a solid $1200 more and there was no build selection. At the top, you had to go with SRAM. It really came down to being burned too many times by SRAM breaks. Buying the Trek and then switching out to XTR breaks meant a $2000 swing and there is also the mental aspect of buying a top end $10k bike and having to pay to switch out sucky breaks - that is a tool. I also think XTR is a little more durable.
    Also was in this debate. My team is sponsored by Trek so we get really good pricing but I could not make the leap into a Top Fuel after riding both. The frame details and quality are much nicer on the Pivot and I could select the new Shimano 12 speed drivetrain and brakes instead of the SRAM stuff I have been running for a few years and was not happy with.

    Add in that would also be pulling that stupid twistloc and some other components from a high end build and it swayed me away. It is a shame but thankfully I have a good relationship with the local Pivot dealer also.

  61. #261
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by keifla123 View Post
    Also was in this debate. My team is sponsored by Trek so we get really good pricing but I could not make the leap into a Top Fuel after riding both. The frame details and quality are much nicer on the Pivot and I could select the new Shimano 12 speed drivetrain and brakes instead of the SRAM stuff I have been running for a few years and was not happy with.

    Add in that would also be pulling that stupid twistloc and some other components from a high end build and it swayed me away. It is a shame but thankfully I have a good relationship with the local Pivot dealer also.
    Good to hear from someone with experience on both, thanks for the info.

    I'm kind of in a similar situation with team shops. Mine is a big Santa Cruz dealer and I can get a very nice deal on the Blur. However, I don't really want a blur, it doesn't really speak to me, as they say. I'm going to have to pay full price for the pivot; as much as I love getting pro deals, spending $5-6K on a bike I don't really want isn't something I'm going to do.

  62. #262
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but are the build specs on the Pivot site correct? The Team builds come with 2.2 inch tires and 740mm bars and the WC builds come with 2.25s and 760s? Does anyone else think that's backwards?

  63. #263
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by ccftri View Post
    I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but are the build specs on the Pivot site correct? The Team builds come with 2.2 inch tires and 740mm bars and the WC builds come with 2.25s and 760s? Does anyone else think that's backwards?
    The Team build has 740 riser bars, the WC has 760 flat bars, so riders can trim their bars to length.

    The Ardent and Aspen tires are different, Aspen being lighter thread count, and overall lighter tire, really a light weight race tire, vs. more of a trail XC tire.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  64. #264
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    The Team build has 740 riser bars, the WC has 760 flat bars, so riders can trim their bars to length.

    The Ardent and Aspen tires are different, Aspen being lighter thread count, and overall lighter tire, really a light weight race tire, vs. more of a trail XC tire.
    Ah, that makes sense, I missed the flat/riser distinction. Thanks.

  65. #265
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    After fire-selling my Yeti SB100 (prob the worst bike I've ever owned), I can't wait to get my Mach 4SL next week for my local tight, twisty trails. Hoping it will be an evolution of (one of) my 429SL('s) that I've had in my stable for 4 years. Fast AF and capable on the downs with the SC 120...
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  66. #266
    Freezer
    Reputation: mlloyd007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    After fire-selling my Yeti SB100 (prob the worst bike I've ever owned), I can't wait to get my Mach 4SL next week for my local tight, twisty trails. Hoping it will be an evolution of (one of) my 429SL('s) that I've had in my stable for 4 years. Fast AF and capable on the downs with the SC 120...
    Congrats on the 4SL- looks like a fast fast bike. What was the issue with the SB100? I demo'd one when I was looking for a 429SL replacement, and liked the geometry a lot, but didn't like the suspension much. I actually ended up with a SB4.5 which I like a lot- very efficient climber and better descending that the 429SL. Now if CC would just come out with an updated Switchblade, I'd be all over that.

  67. #267
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    What was the issue with the SB100? I demo'd one when I was looking for a 429SL replacement, and liked the geometry a lot, but didn't like the suspension much...
    I can't speak for everyone but for me and most of my riding buddies the issue with the SB100 is HTA. I think many manufacturers forget not every MTBer rides "downcountry" out in the wide open western U.S. To me a 67.8 degree HTA on a 100mm travel bike is just silly and renders it essentially useless.

    Here a couple screen shots of a fairly typical ride in my neck of the woods. That's over 9 miles of trail packed into about 1 square mile of land and don't be fooled by that first spike in the elev profile, look at the numbers, its only 70-80 feet. Try to ride a bike with a HTA much steeper then 69 degrees and you'll be spending half your ride off in the poison ivy.

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-img_1438.jpg
    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-img_1439.jpg

  68. #268
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I can't speak for everyone but for me and most of my riding buddies the issue with the SB100 is HTA. I think many manufacturers forget not every MTBer rides "downcountry" out in the wide open western U.S. To me a 67.8 degree HTA on a 100mm travel bike is just silly and renders it essentially useless.

    Here a couple screen shots of a fairly typical ride in my neck of the woods. That's over 9 miles of trail packed into about 1 square mile of land and don't be fooled by that first spike in the elev profile, look at the numbers, its only 70-80 feet. Try to ride a bike with a HTA much steeper then 69 degrees and you'll be spending half your ride off in the poison ivy.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1438.jpg 
Views:	62 
Size:	133.5 KB 
ID:	1269157
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1439.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	69.0 KB 
ID:	1269159
    Fair enough, but the HTA on the Mach4SL is even slacker.

  69. #269
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I can't speak for everyone but for me and most of my riding buddies the issue with the SB100 is HTA. I think many manufacturers forget not every MTBer rides "downcountry" out in the wide open western U.S. To me a 67.8 degree HTA on a 100mm travel bike is just silly and renders it essentially useless.

    Here a couple screen shots of a fairly typical ride in my neck of the woods. That's over 9 miles of trail packed into about 1 square mile of land and don't be fooled by that first spike in the elev profile, look at the numbers, its only 70-80 feet. Try to ride a bike with a HTA much steeper then 69 degrees and you'll be spending half your ride off in the poison ivy.
    67.8 is too slack, but over 69 is too steep? That trail must be some kind of geographical oddity? ;-)

  70. #270
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chicane32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    67.8 is too slack, but over 69 is too steep? That trail must be some kind of geographical oddity? ;-)
    Exactly what I was thinking and glad I wasn't the only one confused. I hope he doesn't have nightmares trying to find that perfect 68.36792 HTA.
    Last edited by Chicane32; 08-24-2019 at 07:43 AM.

  71. #271
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Can anyone give a comparison between the M4SL and the santa Cruz Blur TR? Has anyone ridden both?

  72. #272
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    67.8 is too slack, but over 69 is too steep? That trail must be some kind of geographical oddity? ;-)
    Oops, good catch...meant to say slacker than 69 degrees not steeper...

  73. #273
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Congrats on the 4SL- looks like a fast fast bike. What was the issue with the SB100? I demo'd one when I was looking for a 429SL replacement, and liked the geometry a lot, but didn't like the suspension much. I actually ended up with a SB4.5 which I like a lot- very efficient climber and better descending that the 429SL. Now if CC would just come out with an updated Switchblade, I'd be all over that.
    The suspension is super-efficient but not very plush. But the main issue was the SI system. The bike creaked like hell with the original version and the updated version was flexy as all get-out. Not to mention the PITA of trying to keep the bolts tightened, checking them every ride, etc. IMO they totally blew the design/execution of the SI for that bike. My first Yeti; I resisted the tribe mentality for as long as I could, but the SB100 just ticked so many boxes for me that I couldn't resist any longer. Won't make that mistake again...
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  74. #274
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    So I've installed my lockout lever for rear only and have gone for the Reverb AXS.
    I can quite comfortably activate both when required, I don't expect to use the lockout to much.
    The other benefit which pushed me this way was for XC races when I don't need a dropper I will just remove dropper and remote, slide lockout closer to grip and install carbon seat post
    Bit more expensive but should get best of both worlds daily ride and race.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot Mach 4 SL-img_0918.jpg  


  75. #275
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    Well, I thought I was going to get one, but maybe not. I made a deal with my LBS for the large, blue, Pro XT/XTR version. Thought I would get it next week. Guess not! They tell me that there are no large blue frames available and it will be six weeks before there are any! Not sure if I want to wait.

  76. #276
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    215
    That stinks. Fwiw I had the same estimate on my bike and ended up getting it in 2 weeks.

    Not sure if I just got lucky or if they are under promising and over delivering. (BTW...many thanks Ryan and the pivot gang).

  77. #277
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    I ordered mine and they said it would take 6 weeks. It came in 2. I am stoked.

  78. #278
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    215
    I also noticed that the xt versions are shipping with 12sp. So if you ordered Shimano, maybe you'll get that upgrade.

  79. #279
    kk2
    kk2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I can't speak for everyone but for me and most of my riding buddies the issue with the SB100 is HTA. I think many manufacturers forget not every MTBer rides "downcountry" out in the wide open western U.S. To me a 67.8 degree HTA on a 100mm travel bike is just silly and renders it essentially useless.

    Here a couple screen shots of a fairly typical ride in my neck of the woods. That's over 9 miles of trail packed into about 1 square mile of land and don't be fooled by that first spike in the elev profile, look at the numbers, its only 70-80 feet. Try to ride a bike with a HTA much steeper then 69 degrees and you'll be spending half your ride off in the poison ivy.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1438.jpg 
Views:	62 
Size:	133.5 KB 
ID:	1269157
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1439.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	69.0 KB 
ID:	1269159
    Here ya brother. The same applies for me. Looks like the bike manufacturers think that every single trail in the world looks like the ones in the western US. All this "descending stability" lingo is so overrated in the flattish portions of the country. Maybe they should make a "Flat country" bike.
    Pivot Mach 4C
    Trek Procliber 9.9 SL
    Santa Cruz Tallboy 2 CC
    Santa Cruz Blur 2.0 C
    Specialized Fatboy C

  80. #280
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11
    I have gotten several rides on the new SL X01 build and compared to my Mach 429 SL it is a great improvement.
    It is definitely more plush on the small stuff, but does not lose anything on the climbs or rocky sections. I have removed the remote lockout and I have never felt the need for it. I ride in WV with tight technical trails with plenty of steep short climbs. This bike climbs great (IMO). I was worried that the new HTA would compromise the climbing ability and that is not the case. It also rails thru tight switchbacks.
    The new HTA has made the bike more stable on the technical down high sections of trail which is a good thing. This is my first time using a dropper post so it also makes the down hill stuff more fun.
    The frame is stiff and best of all quiet. The new chainstay protector (at reducing noise) is very noticeable compared to the old 429 SL.
    I think this is a great race/trail bike, comfortable and capable!
    Pivot customer service is the best. They sent padlock plugs for the bars free of charge so I could change the grips

  81. #281
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    +1 mtbikewv. can't believe how quiet these modern chainstay protectors are.

  82. #282
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I can't speak for everyone but for me and most of my riding buddies the issue with the SB100 is HTA. I think many manufacturers forget not every MTBer rides "downcountry" out in the wide open western U.S. To me a 67.8 degree HTA on a 100mm travel bike is just silly and renders it essentially useless.
    I just don't understand, could you explain? I get that the trails are twisty, but why do you specify 67.8 degrees **on a 100mm travel bike**. If the bike had more travel would that HTA be not useless?

  83. #283
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    he's saying its too slack. slacker the HTA, the less weight is on the contact pact at high steering inputs/tight turns.

    looking at it the other way, he's saying there's a mismatch between travel and how much speed that HTA lets you carry. for that aggressive (relative) of an HTA, the bike could use more travel.

    personally, i think mid 67's is great for all-around riding, but can understand the frustration if you're only doing flattish, tightish singletrack trails. you're almost better off on a flat bar gravel bike the way geo is going.

  84. #284
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    he's saying its too slack. slacker the HTA, the less weight is on the contact pact at high steering inputs/tight turns.

    looking at it the other way, he's saying there's a mismatch between travel and how much speed that HTA lets you carry. for that aggressive (relative) of an HTA, the bike could use more travel.

    personally, i think mid 67's is great for all-around riding, but can understand the frustration if you're only doing flattish, tightish singletrack trails. you're almost better off on a flat bar gravel bike the way geo is going.
    Yeah, I get that, and I agree that mid 67 degrees is kind of a sweet spot (that's what's giving me pause on the new Ripley). I just found it odd that he was specifically calling out 100mm bikes. Sounds like ANY bike with that HTA isn't going to work for him (totally understandable).

    If the trails are smooth, a cross bike with wide tires can be a ton of fun.

  85. #285
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    you could always do a reverse angleset on the ripley since it uses ZS (or EC) cups.

  86. #286
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    he's saying its too slack. slacker the HTA, the less weight is on the contact pact at high steering inputs/tight turns.

    looking at it the other way, he's saying there's a mismatch between travel and how much speed that HTA lets you carry. for that aggressive (relative) of an HTA, the bike could use more travel.

    personally, i think mid 67's is great for all-around riding, but can understand the frustration if you're only doing flattish, tightish singletrack trails.
    Exactly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    you're almost better off on a flat bar gravel bike the way geo is going.
    Quote Originally Posted by ccftri View Post
    If the trails are smooth, a cross bike with wide tires can be a ton of fun.
    Not quite a CX bike but it is fully rigid, has a steep HTA and has 700c wheels, although the tires are 3.0" instead of 30mm.

    New Pivot Mach 4 SL-img_1482.jpg

  87. #287
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    Exactly!!





    Not quite a CX bike but it is fully rigid, has a steep HTA and has 700c wheels, although the tires are 3.0" instead of 30mm.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1482.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	291.4 KB 
ID:	1272311
    I would not want to ride that in a CX race! But it sure does look like it would be fun on some singletrack.

  88. #288
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Any build weights on the Pro X01 build kit?

  89. #289
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    Any build weights on the Pro X01 build kit?
    My Medium came in at roughly 26.5 lbs.

  90. #290
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    31
    Can anyone comment on rear tire clearance? I'd like to occasionally fit a 2.6 Bonty XR2 tires (xc-ish low knobs) on a 29mm inside diameter rim. Any chance this will work? Thanks for any feedback

  91. #291
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    I was chatting with Pivot rep online yesterday about sizing. They were steering me towards a small. I'm 5'8" and ride a medium Mach 4 Carbon and Yeti SB 130. They said the 4 SL is a big bike.

    Thought this might help others.

  92. #292
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    I was chatting with Pivot rep online yesterday about sizing. They were steering me towards a small. I'm 5'8" and ride a medium Mach 4 Carbon and Yeti SB 130. They said the 4 SL is a big bike.

    Thought this might help others.
    Your Yeti is a bigger bike.

  93. #293
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    I was chatting with Pivot rep online yesterday about sizing. They were steering me towards a small. I'm 5'8" and ride a medium Mach 4 Carbon and Yeti SB 130. They said the 4 SL is a big bike.

    Thought this might help others.
    I'm 5'7" (maybe less...) 30" inseam. I currently ride a Switchblade in Med... fits perfect for me. I also just demo'ed an SL for a couple of hours. Again, medium was perfect for me... Did not feel any different than the Switchblade. Got on a small SL also... no dice.

  94. #294
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Shitty second post (on me) but also interested in a frame tape kit. Or am I bringing it to an auto shop that does 3M stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    Anyone know of a company doing laser cut frame protection kits for the M4SL yet?

    Looking for a kit in XL

  95. #295
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    I'm 5'7" (maybe less...) 30" inseam. I currently ride a Switchblade in Med... fits perfect for me. I also just demo'ed an SL for a couple of hours. Again, medium was perfect for me... Did not feel any different than the Switchblade. Got on a small SL also... no dice.
    Kinda depends where you ride. I'm 5'7" with 31" inseam and have got some Mediums with 50mm stems (Ripley V4, Ripmo) but for my tight-ass, twisty, flat trails around Dallas I have a Small 4SL with a 75mm stem. Short, tight WB, snappy handling. A Medium would be too long for me to fly through the trees. No steeps to worry about needing a longer reach. If it was my only bike and I rode it everywhere, including out West with fast, open trails, I would have definitely considered a Medium.
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  96. #296
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Kinda depends where you ride. I'm 5'7" with 31" inseam and have got some Mediums with 50mm stems (Ripley V4, Ripmo) but for my tight-ass, twisty, flat trails around Dallas I have a Small 4SL with a 75mm stem. Short, tight WB, snappy handling. A Medium would be too long for me to fly through the trees. No steeps to worry about needing a longer reach. If it was my only bike and I rode it everywhere, including out West with fast, open trails, I would have definitely considered a Medium.
    That's exactly why I'm considering the small for the tight OH trails where this will be primarily ridden. I've got a bigger bike for anywhere else. Would you mind measure the distance from the tip of the seat to the center of the handle bar?. I'm curious how that compares to my Mach 4.

    Thanks,

    EDventure

  97. #297
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chicane32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Is there any future possibility of frame only purchase minus rear lock out?

  98. #298
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    That's exactly why I'm considering the small for the tight OH trails where this will be primarily ridden. I've got a bigger bike for anywhere else. Would you mind measure the distance from the tip of the seat to the center of the handle bar?. I'm curious how that compares to my Mach 4.

    Thanks,

    EDventure
    48 cm on my Small Mach 4SL (75mm stem), 48 cm on my Medium Ripley V4 (50mm stem), 47 cm on my Medium Ripmo (40mm stem).
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  99. #299
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    48 cm on my Small Mach 4SL (75mm stem), 48 cm on my Medium Ripley V4 (50mm stem), 47 cm on my Medium Ripmo (40mm stem).
    Thank you. That's more inline with my Yeti SB130. It's a bit of a transition switching up bikes from Mach 4 to SB 130.

  100. #300
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    Thank you. That's more inline with my Yeti SB130. It's a bit of a transition switching up bikes from Mach 4 to SB 130.
    They have similar top tube lengths. Does your Mach 4 have a longer stem? I think they used to spec like 85mm stems on that bike, Yeti probably more like 50mm. A 70-80mm stem on the 4SL would give you some room while seated and be able to keep the wheelbase nice and short for getting through the tight trees and stuff fast.
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  101. #301
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    4,238
    My LBS says the 4SL frame is sold out in every size and every color. Wonder how long wait is for medium or large non-Live Valve.

  102. #302
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Was told October for my Non-WC Team AXS Live Valve in Small Stealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    My LBS says the 4SL frame is sold out in every size and every color. Wonder how long wait is for medium or large non-Live Valve.

  103. #303
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    I just picked up my 4 SL, built it up as an XTR LIVE build size Large. I'm just 6' 1 3/4" and the large fits me perfectly. I tested the XL and it was too tall and too long. I Upgraded the cranks, brakes and wheels and I couldn't be more happy with my build.

    Cranks upgraded to the non branded Shimano XTR M9120 crank 175 with a 34 chain ring.
    Brakes to the XTR 4 piston brakes with a 180mm rotor up front, 160 rear.
    Wheels to the Reynolds Black Label enduro wheel
    I also got the Carbon LEV post.

    I took it out for it's maiden ride Saturday, and only have a couple things to adjust on it. My first ride I had the alloy wheels from a Pro XT/XTR build from my wife's XS 4 SL. I hope my wheels arrive today, so I can weigh it and make some final adjustments.

    So far I noticed that FOX's suggested PSI chart for the fork is WAY OFF! Generally they are off by a few PSI, sometimes 10 psi. But for this 34 SC Factory fork, and my weight of 205 - 215 with gear, they suggested 95 psi or more. I'm currently at 75, and didn't get full compression on my ride, I'll adjust the compression to 2 clicks in, had it at 3. I'll need to fine tune the shock as it was nearly perfect, and I was just shy of full compression. I will start by adjusting the compression from 4 clicks in, to 3. Then I'll drop the PSI by 5 to see if that is the right set up.

    LIVE suspension is amazing! I tested the PRO XT build, and though I liked the lockout feature, not thinking about it on the LIVE build was just too cool. Popping off rocks, and little jumps here and there, the suspension just reacts so quickly you don't even notice it. I am spoiled beyond words with this build.

    I also changed the tires, I'm running a Minion DHF 2.4 tire up front and the Reckon 2.4 rear. For South Mountain riding where I live, that tire seems perfect for my style of riding.

    I love the modulation of the XTR 4 piston brakes. I had the XT versions on my 5.5 previously, and I noticed that I have much more control of the power on the brake, and it isn't as sudden POWER ON as the XT versions were.

    I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the new 10x51 cassette. The jump between gears was solid, and not as drastic as I noticed when I used Sram bikes in the past. I felt the gearing was much more usable, and the clicks between gears was solid as well. I'll admit, I'm a Shimano guy, all of my personal bikes have always used the product. I've tested the sram stuff, and I'm not a fan of the shifter, nor the gear jumps. sram brakes have always left something to be desired IMO.

    Looking forward to my next ride with my wheels. My wife already informed me that she didn't give me permission to use her wheels, and that she needed them back for a ride tomorrow! Luckily I'm not in the dog house for that.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  104. #304
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    215
    Agree with your analysis above! The recommended psi on the fork make for a hellish stiff ride which is just silly for a bike with a lockout or live valve. 20psi lower is about where I'm at as well. Rear shock is also firmer than the prior models, but not as bad.

    New Shimano stuff is excellent. I run XT 8100 RD and XTR9100 shifter. I've used the 45t and 51t cassettes. Very smooth and sure shifting. The 51 does have a nice transition and I also like it a lot more than I thought. Run a 34t on the front and I'm covered on a wide variety of terrain.

    I also have the M8100 brakes 2 piston. These are much improved in terms of modulation and bite point over my prior 9000 and 8000 brakes.

  105. #305
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    4,238
    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    67.8 is too slack, but over 69 is too steep? That trail must be some kind of geographical oddity? ;-)
    Oh brother, where art though?

  106. #306
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Oh brother, where art though?
    Read post #272 in this thread...

  107. #307
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    First ride on the 4 SL last night. Wow! it pedals super well as expected and very precise handling. Not twitchy as some XC bikes used to be though. The 29er wheels nearly propel themselves in some scenarios. It replaced a Mach 4 Carbon so suspension feels a little more firm which is fine.

    I'm 5'8" and opted for the Small based on geo and Pivot's recommendation. Very happy with that choice. I always felt stretched out when switching from SB130 to M4.

    I'm replacing the fork cap to remove the lockout feature. Message me if you want the part # ordered from Worldwide Cyclery. Haven't figured out how to remove rear lockout. Any help is appreciated?

    27.34 lbs per feedback scale w/o pedals weight was more than expected on small X01 build. It sounds like they have a quart of Stan's in each tire so that might be a factor. The OEM Ardent Races are probably fairly bulky too if I had to guess.

    Let me know if I can help others on the fence considering this bike. I almost bought the Yeti SB100 but was afraid of all the issues with SI linkage. Even though it sounds like it's been addressed. LOVE my SB 130 though.

    EDventure

  108. #308
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    I now have three rides on my Mach 4SL (XT/XTR) and love it. Have two issues, though. 1) I am not getting anywhere near full compression on the fork or shock. I weigh about 160 and have the fork at about 60lbs and the shock at 160 lbs. 2) The stock Ardent Race 2.2 tires are suspect for me in SoCal. The front seems to have plenty of traction in corners, but the rear slips a lot on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge in a climb, the rear spins out. I am running 23lbs in front and 24lbs in the rear. I had Maxxis Crossmarks on my previous bike and those tires grabbed much better.

  109. #309
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by jdcowboy View Post
    I now have three rides on my Mach 4SL (XT/XTR) and love it. Have two issues, though. 1) I am not getting anywhere near full compression on the fork or shock. I weigh about 160 and have the fork at about 60lbs and the shock at 160 lbs. 2) The stock Ardent Race 2.2 tires are suspect for me in SoCal. The front seems to have plenty of traction in corners, but the rear slips a lot on technical climbs. Just when I stand to get over the ledge in a climb, the rear spins out. I am running 23lbs in front and 24lbs in the rear. I had Maxxis Crossmarks on my previous bike and those tires grabbed much better.
    I think you have too much air in the FORK. FOX recommends far to much. I have 75 PSI in mine and I weigh 215 with gear. I nearly get full compression after 4 rides in, the o-rings sits on the crown side of the KASHIMA wording on the fork. How many clicks of compression are you set at? I'm at 3 clicks in.

    I don't know what my rear pressure is at, but measure how much that o-ring moves, you should get 40mm of movement there. It also may take you 5 or 6 rides to seed the seals and get things moving freely... My last ride I was at 38mm, I will move my compression to 1 click in, it is currently at 2.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  110. #310
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    Thanks, Dan23. I am going to reduce the pressure in the fork more.

    I haven't changed the compression from how the shop set it up, but I'll play with that, too.

    Also going to reduce tire pressure more.

  111. #311
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    If that's a 34 SC, mine was way way over-damped from the factory and I was running pressure down in the 50s to try and compensate (at 165lbs weight). I had it revalved once and I just sent it back to push for a further revalve. When your 32 SC is better controlled than your 34, something is significantly wrong. Fox really manages to nail bad damping semi-frequently. You should be able to run the fork with minimal tokens, use nearly full travel, get good stability and damping without feeling like a jackhammer. This also means you should be able to use a decent amount of clicks of the LSC without it being a jackhammer.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  112. #312
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    734
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    If that's a 34 SC, mine was way way over-damped from the factory and I was running pressure down in the 50s to try and compensate (at 165lbs weight). I had it revalved once and I just sent it back to push for a further revalve. When your 32 SC is better controlled than your 34, something is significantly wrong. Fox really manages to nail bad damping semi-frequently. You should be able to run the fork with minimal tokens, use nearly full travel, get good stability and damping without feeling like a jackhammer. This also means you should be able to use a decent amount of clicks of the LSC without it being a jackhammer.
    Completely agree. Same exact situation here with a 2019 fit4 34 vs my old Pushed 32. Either I use the Fox recommended air pressure of 85 with no tokens, which leaves the LSC dial irrelevant or the Pivot recommendation of 65 psi and 3 tokens and use some LSC. Either setup is not even in the same league as my 10 year old Pushed 32. Certainly the stiffness is better with the 34 but geez, 9 months of frustration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  113. #313
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    215
    Yeah the recommended pressures on the sticker aren't even close! Gotta go by sag. Even then, I'm running it a touch less.

  114. #314
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    I'm 180 lbs and running 78 psi in 34SC. This gives me about ~22 mm of sag. Softest setting for LSC. O-ring is in the middle of Kashima letters after ride. This includes a few 3' drops.

    It was abrupt on a very rooty trail on the second ride but tire pressure was too high. Backed that off and it was much more compliant last night.

    This makes me wonder if they changed damping on 2020 models or maybe I have no clue. Plus, the suspension still has less than 50 miles on it. It'll get better as things break in.

    EDventure

  115. #315
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Delete Post - I figured out how to remove lockout remotes.

    Thanks,

    EDventure
    Last edited by edbraunbeck; 10-06-2019 at 11:30 AM.

  116. #316
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    I'm 180 lbs and running 78 psi in 34SC. This gives me about ~22 mm of sag. Softest setting for LSC. O-ring is in the middle of Kashima letters after ride. This includes a few 3' drops.

    It was abrupt on a very rooty trail on the second ride but tire pressure was too high. Backed that off and it was much more compliant last night.

    This makes me wonder if they changed damping on 2020 models or maybe I have no clue. Plus, the suspension still has less than 50 miles on it. It'll get better as things break in.

    EDventure
    THe problem with this too is that the fork ends up riding like a sponge IME, like it's kind of soft off-the-top when you finally dial the pressure down enough, but then you have to jack a bunch of spacers in there, the intial travel is soft and spongy, and bigger hits still get harsh deep in the travel. Lots of fork movement because you can't use any LSC.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  117. #317
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Here we go...New Pivot Mach 4 SL-mach4sl.jpg

  118. #318
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
    I am back after having put about 200 miles on my Large SL and I have to say, this is a special bike. I played with the suspension a little and it is now dialed - the bike feels very balanced. I have some very technical uphill switch backs in my area I wanted to test the bike on given the slack geo, and with the stiffness of the frame and full geo packaged, the biked lept up and throw them. In general, the bike just feels very balanced and smooth and I have not hit a downhill section yet that made me uncomfortable. Again, this is a special bike. My only negative is that the plastic piece on the Next cranks came loose and caused the cranks to squeak bad. I tightened it, so we will see if it holds. Again, a very special bike.

  119. #319
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    I have 65 miles on my large Mach 4 SL. Did 40 miles with 5300 feet of climbing today. Got the suspension dialed in. I weigh 160. Fork 70 lbs, 5 clicks from full slow, shock 170 lbs, 3 clicks from full slow. Stem and bars slammed all the way down. Tires at 20lbs front, 22lbs back. Nice ride. Love the dropper post and lockout on the suspension. Used the lockout much more than I expected today. Climbs well and descends well. Very impressed, although the XTR derailleur does not shift as quickly as I expected. First time with a 1X and I am impressed with it. 51 tooth in rear is nice.

  120. #320
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Mine (as seen above) will be my 2020 XCO and XCM race rig. I am about 145lbs: running the 34sc at 80psi. Not sure about the shock. 150-160psi seems to work. The Trickstuff brakes are insanely good. Dropper and lockout cable routing is a bit of a mess. Maybe a twistloc is a future option.

  121. #321
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Of course they update the XX1 AXS spec list to 4 pistons and a Reverb dropper after the LBS was able to secure one not being ungrateful just feel like they have mindreaders there in Phoenix

  122. #322
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by dukduk View Post
    Of course they update the XX1 AXS spec list to 4 pistons and a Reverb dropper after the LBS was able to secure one not being ungrateful just feel like they have mindreaders there
    Sometimes it's due to product flow and availability... If we start with offering it one way, it's never perfect for everyone, once we make the change, we have to use up inventory before making changes.

    Thanks for the support, and for understanding.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  123. #323
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chicane32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by dukduk View Post
    Of course they update the XX1 AXS spec list to 4 pistons and a Reverb dropper after the LBS was able to secure one not being ungrateful just feel like they have mindreaders there in Phoenix
    Why would anyone want the heavier 4 piston brakes on any XC race bike?

  124. #324
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    Why would anyone want the heavier 4 piston brakes on any XC race bike?
    Hahaha, but it's got lockouts all over to make it the best XC race bike!!!!

  125. #325
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by chilla13 View Post
    Mine (as seen above) will be my 2020 XCO and XCM race rig. I am about 145lbs: running the 34sc at 80psi. Not sure about the shock. 150-160psi seems to work. The Trickstuff brakes are insanely good. Dropper and lockout cable routing is a bit of a mess. Maybe a twistloc is a future option.
    80 psi?! How much travel do you get at that much pressure? I'm about 145 too and if I ran 80 I don't think I'd get more than 80-90mm travel on a 4-ft drop. IIRC the Pivot guide suggests about 50-55psi at that weight.
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  126. #326
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chicane32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    80 psi?! How much travel do you get at that much pressure? I'm about 145 too and if I ran 80 I don't think I'd get more than 80-90mm travel on a 4-ft drop. IIRC the Pivot guide suggests about 50-55psi at that weight.
    I noticed that also. I run 75-80 in my SC and I weigh 195.

  127. #327
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    80 psi?! How much travel do you get at that much pressure? I'm about 145 too and if I ran 80 I don't think I'd get more than 80-90mm travel on a 4-ft drop. IIRC the Pivot guide suggests about 50-55psi at that weight.
    Was thinking the same thing. I'm 170lbs and run 60psi in mine most of the time. I actually ran 55 in mine for an XC race yesterday.

  128. #328
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    Why would anyone want the heavier 4 piston brakes on any XC race bike?
    Iím really fat thatís why.

    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Sometimes it's due to product flow and availability... If we start with offering it one way, it's never perfect for everyone, once we make the change, we have to use up inventory before making changes.

    Thanks for the support, and for understanding.
    Lemme get that V2.0 upgrade kit then.

  129. #329
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    Why would anyone want the heavier 4 piston brakes on any XC race bike?
    Well i know i do feel more comfortable pulling up my 100kg's with 4 pistons.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot Mach 4 SL-20190804_122449.jpg  


  130. #330
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    Well i know i do feel more comfortable pulling up my 100kg's with 4 pistons.
    Full swap or just the calipers?

  131. #331
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhazard View Post
    Well i know i do feel more comfortable pulling up my 100kg's with 4 pistons.
    Full swap or just the calipers?

  132. #332
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    80 psi?! How much travel do you get at that much pressure? I'm about 145 too and if I ran 80 I don't think I'd get more than 80-90mm travel on a 4-ft drop. IIRC the Pivot guide suggests about 50-55psi at that weight.
    Mh... set up is definitely not final but I am not going to run the fork at 55psi. I don't like the feeling of diving into berms. It is true that I did not get full travel; around 100mm it is.

  133. #333
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by chilla13 View Post
    Mh... set up is definitely not final but I am not going to run the fork at 55psi. I don't like the feeling of diving into berms. It is true that I did not get full travel; around 100mm it is.
    That seems like more of a compression adjustment issue than pressure.

  134. #334
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Just checked it: I am running the fork even slightly above 80 psi to get 25% sag. And I still think its too soft to match the firm feeling of the rear shock.

  135. #335
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by dukduk View Post
    Full swap or just the calipers?
    No full set i brought frame only an did custom build

  136. #336
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209

    Build options

    I am about to order and trying to chose the build. I am 5'8" with 31.5 inseam. It looks like I should be on the medium. For a build, I am going with the 120mm fork and non-live. I want to stay with Shimano. Is the Team XTR build worth the 2k extra over the Pro XT/XTR build? It looks like the upgrades are; wheels to the DT XRC1200, cranks to the Next SL, and saddle.

  137. #337
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,413
    no. dt swiss wheels are over priced and next sl cranks are not reliable. go to the aftermarket.

  138. #338
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    I am about to order and trying to chose the build. I am 5'8" with 31.5 inseam.
    I'm 5'8" with a slightly shorter inseam and Pivot suggested the small. They said it runs large and it measures up closer to my medium Yeti SB130.

  139. #339
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    I'm 5'8" with a slightly shorter inseam and Pivot suggested the small. They said it runs large and it measures up closer to my medium Yeti SB130.
    Online chat guy advised a small for me also. I told them Iím 5í6Ē with a 28.5Ē inseam (islander)

  140. #340
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    I am 5'8'', riding a medium. Fit is perfect for me but I think I could have gone with small as well. Stack height is complicated with the 4SL; if you got short legs like me you will have to use a -25 stem unless you prioritize a trail bike feeling.

    Add: bought a new shock pump. Pressure in the fork is 65psi now, 155 in the rear shock.

  141. #341
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    What is your BB to top of saddle height? Or pants length inseam?

  142. #342
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    What is your BB to top of saddle height? Or pants length inseam?
    BB to saddle is 27''.

  143. #343
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    Thanks. I am 28" from BB to top of saddle at the middle. By calculations it looks like I should be able to have about a 2" saddle to bar height drop. Does that sound right to you?

    A concern I have with the small is being able to get my saddle high enough.

  144. #344
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    Thanks. I am 28" from BB to top of saddle at the middle. By calculations it looks like I should be able to have about a 2" saddle to bar height drop. Does that sound right to you?
    It does. It is not necessarily bad to have almost no drop. For me it felt awkward but I grew up with "more drop equals better" on my mind. What matters most is that I am neither faster nor slower on the 4SL than on other race bikes I own (FSI, Epic, ASRC).

  145. #345
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    Great. Thanks for the info. I think the medium is the better choice. Long reach and top tube. If I have to put a deeper drop stem on, then so be it but I think it will be good as is.

  146. #346
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    4
    Deleted
    Last edited by marcoboy88; 10-21-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  147. #347
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    ...
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  148. #348
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    Ordered. I spoke with Pivot and based on height 5'8", inseam 31.5, and my current bikes geo and setup, he said a medium should work well.

  149. #349
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    I'm 5'11" and have a size large. I have the stem flipped over and slammed all the way down. Looks fine and works great. I saw some Pivot sponsored riders on Mach 4SL's at the Tour of the White Mountains Saturday and they did the same thing on their bikes.

  150. #350
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bizango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    356
    I got to demo a Mach 4SL at Outerbike this past weekend. Overall I liked it. I had ridden the ibis Ripley earlier and loved that bike and the Mach4SL didn't feel radically different. The main difference was the tires. The narrow, minimal tread Recons were not a good fit for the dry, rocky trails there. It pedaled well yet did surprisingly well for a 100mm travel bike on the rocky sections. I really didn't like the lockout and the compromise in dropper lever it leaves you with. If I get one I'd have to figure out what to do about that. I could tell though that it would be well suited for racing and as a light duty trail bike.

  151. #351
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Message me if anyone is looking to sell their stock DT Swiss XRC wheelset.

  152. #352
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    Message me if anyone is looking to sell their stock DT Swiss XRC wheelset.
    Selling your SunRingles?

  153. #353
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by dukduk View Post
    Selling your SunRingles?
    DT Swiss M1700's

  154. #354
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    4
    edit
    Last edited by marcoboy88; 10-17-2019 at 09:02 AM.

  155. #355
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by marcoboy88 View Post
    You would do yourself no favors if you sized down. Whats the point of the modern , long geometry, if you're just going to size down so it feels like your previous bike?
    I'm your size and went with a Small. For where I ride this bike, on flatter, tighter trails, the shorter bike is better for ME. I have other bikes in Medium (Ripley, etc) that are better for more open, higher speed trails. Point is horses for courses, and everybody's terrain and riding style are different. Even Pivot's sizing guide says Small or Medium at that height, so it's not really "sizing down".
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  156. #356
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    130
    Can't go wrong either way. It's not that you are suddenly on a completely different bike when switching between small and medium.

  157. #357
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    21
    Holy sheet, Pivot demo came to town today, rode an XTR live valve bike on a trail I've done a million times, really steep super tech up and down. I love everything about that bike, new XTR is amazing, 24lbs with a 67.5 head angle is amazing--so flickable, and live valve is just out of this world.

    Christ. One way or another I'm gonna part with 10k by next spring.

  158. #358
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,317
    So anyone with long term time on a Live Valve equipped SL?
    Ripley LS v3
    OG Ripley v2 handed down to son

  159. #359
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    So I have about 170 miles on my Mach 4SL XT/XTR. Fox Transfer post stopped functioning after 10 miles. Out for repair. The bike seems twitchy to me while climbing, especially at low speeds on tight single track. The handlebars are 750 mm compared to the 690 on my old bike. I would have expected the wider handlebars to make the bike more stable.

  160. #360
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    46
    We were lucky enough to have the pivot demo fleet here today. mach 429 sl was fantastic. Cazy amount of cash however. Does another manufacture make a frame with similar geometry?

  161. #361
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by tocoldmn View Post
    We were lucky enough to have the pivot demo fleet here today. mach 429 sl was fantastic. Cazy amount of cash however. Does another manufacture make a frame with similar geometry?
    Yeah, Yeti does. But it's about 500 bucks more.
    Ibis Ripmo
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Ibis Mojo HD4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    Colnago C60 Disc

  162. #362
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by tocoldmn View Post
    We were lucky enough to have the pivot demo fleet here today. mach 429 sl was fantastic. Cazy amount of cash however. Does another manufacture make a frame with similar geometry?
    When I demo'd a Mach 4 SL a few weeks ago, the local shop doing the demo quoted me a significant discount, like under $5k for a Pro build. Might ask what the cost through your LBS is.

  163. #363
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    I got 15% off MSRP but I have a very good relationship with my LBS.

  164. #364
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by cal_len1 View Post
    When I demo'd a Mach 4 SL a few weeks ago, the local shop doing the demo quoted me a significant discount, like under $5k for a Pro build. Might ask what the cost through your LBS is.
    Ditto. We had a local demo and 15% off was offered to everyone.

  165. #365
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    53
    Mine was more like 25%, but maybe it was just that LBS trying to sell some bikes.

  166. #366
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    Medium Team XTR with lockouts(non Live) with XT pedals and bottle cage came in at 25.1lbs.

    Overall may have been one ofe the easiest builds I have done.

    Only issue is binding of the Fox Transfer post if I tighten the collar to more than 2.25NM(20 in-lbs)

  167. #367
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    Medium Team XTR with lockouts(non Live) with XT pedals and bottle cage came in at 25.1lbs.

    Overall may have been one ofe the easiest builds I have done.

    Only issue is binding of the Fox Transfer post if I tighten the collar to more than 2.25NM(20 in-lbs)
    I have two bikeyoke revives and a transfer. If you ever want to get a really nice post, put the bikeyoke revive on your list. Doesn't suffer from the usual issues, such as that tightening one. I assume you are using carbon paste, but this is one of the Achilles heel's of dropper posts.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  168. #368
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dreicha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by maettu View Post
    My Large Mach 4 frame weights 2450g including shock, remote housing for the shock, and all covers, small screws and frame guards. But without rear axle and seat collar. Not too bad I would say...



    Is this frame worth to sacrifice the weight of full 650ml water bottle compared to spark rc?

  169. #369
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Quote Originally Posted by dreicha View Post
    Is this frame worth to sacrifice the weight of full 650ml water bottle compared to spark rc?
    Which bike will still be going strong 2-3 seasons from now? My money would be on the Pivot. I find the more mass produced bikes to incorporate features/design that tends to make them more disposable/accelerates wear over a few seasons. Design of pivots, ease of changing bearings, the bearings themselves, shock hardware, interfaces, etc. are usually the differences in these bikes. Scott design has never impressed me over the years, with lots of wacky one-off proprietary stuff or over-complicated linkages. Their newest bikes ARE very clean, so those days seem to be somewhat behind them, but there's a reason I stick with companies like Pivot, for their track record of support and awesome designed/performing bikes. The spark comes out as a bit lower-efficiency on the linkage kinematics page, but with 100mm and lockouts on both bikes, this would matter little IME for XC racing.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  170. #370
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    OK, maybe a stupid question but are the two water bottle bolts under the bottom bracket meant to carry a second water bottle? Seems like a very odd place

  171. #371
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    OK, maybe a stupid question but are the two water bottle bolts under the bottom bracket meant to carry a second water bottle? Seems like a very odd place
    There is a set of water bottle bolts, so you can secure a water bottle cage. That is a common place to put one.

    Many manufacturers do this, so not really that ODD...
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  172. #372
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    The odd thing is how low it is.

  173. #373
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by bushido5 View Post
    The odd thing is how low it is.
    There is a level of safety that we need to be aware of - you can't have anything come close to that front tire at full compression.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  174. #374
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    There is a level of safety that we need to be aware of - you can't have anything come close to that front tire at full compression.
    Yep. On my old Turner Czar, a 28 oz tall/narrow bottle under the downtube cage would rub the front tire at full compression if the cage wasn't heavy and tight. A lightweight cage would have a bit of flex with the full bottle. Bzzz, bzzz.

  175. #375
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65
    I donít know how youíd reach the bottle on a mount that low. How would the bottle stay in the mount?

  176. #376
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,317
    Quote Originally Posted by jdcowboy View Post
    I donít know how youíd reach the bottle on a mount that low. How would the bottle stay in the mount?
    Think! When the upper bottle is empty you swap them, it's not there to use while riding.
    Ripley LS v3
    OG Ripley v2 handed down to son

  177. #377
    Controlled Crash
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    209
    I have used a down tube bottle cage for many years. I used a standard alloy cage with a piece of thin elastic that looped over the bottle. I think it may have been an elastic shoelace. I was able to swap bottles while riding but it was not easy and had to be very careful as I occasional got buzzed by the front tire if I was not. My concern on the Mach 4 SL is how low it is. Its more of a bottom bracket cage than a down tube cage. You may be right about the reason for it being so low but that doesnt mean it will function well. Have any of you tried it? I have not yet but probably will
    Last edited by bushido5; 5 Days Ago at 05:02 AM. Reason: Typo

  178. #378
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,325
    Something I've done in recent years to boost water-supply without adding much weight is a revelate feed-back behind my number plate. If it's a commercially sold bottle of water (yeah, I know, not environmentally friendly, but I inevitably end up with them sometimes from hotels) I put mix in it and then crush it and stick it back in the feed bag. It's hard to even tell it's there and I usually use it first, especially if the race starts out with a big climb.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  179. #379
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edbraunbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    482
    What is the torque on the rear thru-axle? It's not stamped on axle or listed in spec on Pivot's site.

    Thanks,

    EDventure

  180. #380
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mfa81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,897
    Quote Originally Posted by edbraunbeck View Post
    What is the torque on the rear thru-axle? It's not stamped on axle or listed in spec on Pivot's site.

    Thanks,

    EDventure
    Just use your multi tool, you donít want to torque too much that you wonít be able to use your multi tool to remove in case you need out on the trail.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Local peeps, need your suggestions: Pivot Mach 6 or Mach 4
    By w1kk3d in forum Colorado - Front Range
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-07-2015, 03:40 AM
  2. Pivot Mach 427 - Mach 4 conversion
    By kleinhead in forum Pivot Cycles
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-24-2015, 02:14 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-13-2013, 10:04 AM
  4. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 09-27-2013, 01:55 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-21-2012, 06:37 PM

Members who have read this thread: 459

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.