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Thread: Firebird 29

  1. #1
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    Firebird 29

    Itís here!...

    https://youtu.be/YezJ0ngby8w

    http://www.pivotcycles.com/bike/firebird-29/

    I still think Fireblade would have been a better name though!!

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    It looks superb, and that video is very tongue in cheek. I'd love to demo one, especially as XL looks like it may finally fit me.
    Looking forward to seeing initial reports.

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    Time for another demo! Blue one looks really nice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJones View Post
    I'd love to demo one, especially as XL looks like it may finally fit me.
    I'm in the same boat, very interested in how the XL feels. Pivot prices do make my eyes water though

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    Awesome looking bike.

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    I think Pivot has finally nailed it. The ultimate 29", but why on earth they use PF92 BB?
    Roots, bloody roots

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    ďAdjustable geometry with a flip-chip upper link mount and lower headset cupĒ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.T View Post
    I think Pivot has finally nailed it. The ultimate 29", but why on earth they use PF92 BB?
    That does not bother me but super boost does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.T View Post
    but why on earth they use PF92 BB?
    Agreed, that's the only negative, the tears about the rear hub spacing are getting pretty old already.

    This and the Trail 429 are great looking bikes, to me most of Pivots designs have looked a bit odd (not sure why, they've just never really appealed to me). Fingers crossed the Switchblade gets an update with a similar looking rear end ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChefBrian View Post
    I'm in the same boat, very interested in how the XL feels. Pivot prices do make my eyes water though
    Yep, same here. They're nice but it's no food for months for most mortals trying to save up coin for one.

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    I think superboost at least makes more sense than boost. Also I think press fit issues are a thing of the past.

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    Too bad no water bottle mount in the front triangle. With that upper link orientation, it appears that the shock will pivot down during its travel, which is probably why no bottle mounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dude View Post
    That does not bother me but super boost does.
    8 whole posts before someone bitches about 157...that's progress!!!!

    Honestly though, a long travel 29er that may not accept a coil seems like a HUDGE oversight.

    Btwn the 429T and this, Pivot is killing it in the looks department!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    8 whole posts before someone bitches about 157...that's progress!!!!

    Honestly though, a long travel 29er that may not accept a coil seems like a HUDGE oversight.

    Btwn the 429T and this, Pivot is killing it in the looks department!!!!
    I hated superboost when the SB was first released because options for wheels were very limited but now with I9 offering hubs im going to give it another shot with this bike.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Itís here!...

    https://youtu.be/YezJ0ngby8w

    Firebird 29 - Pivot Cycles | Pivot Cycles | Performance Redefined

    I still think Fireblade would have been a better name though!!
    The funny thing is, we thought about that enough to figure out that there is a motorcycle called the Fireblade in Europe...
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    The funny thing is, we thought about that enough to figure out that there is a motorcycle called the Fireblade in Europe...
    There certainly is, which is what makes it so cool, well as long as youíre not concerned about trademarks and boring stuff like that!

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    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ri...rebird-29.html


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    Super boost is not new, it is fat bike spacing and has been around for quite awhile. Although I don't like having the standards change every 3 years or so, the wider spacing probably helpful for running 2.6 and larger tires.

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    Firebird 29

    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Super boost is not new, it is fat bike spacing and has been around for quite awhile. Although I don't like having the standards change every 3 years or so, the wider spacing probably helpful for running 2.6 and larger tires.
    Itís not fat Bike spacing. It is DH spacing.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    The funny thing is, we thought about that enough to figure out that there is a motorcycle called the Fireblade in Europe...
    I assumed it would be called the Bigbird.
    NOAH SEARS
    MRP - VP of Business Development
    Pivot Cycles - Team Rider

  21. #21
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    Just finished building my Trail 429 last night and I wake up to this, haha. Gonna need a bigger shed.

    Going from 429sl / Switchblade / Firebird 27.5" to Les 29 / Trail 429 / Firebird 29"

    I'm stoked that at least two of my bikes will take the same wheels now.
    NOAH SEARS
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    [QUOTE=dan23;13710687]Itís not fat Bike spacing. It is DH spacing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOT

    Ok

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I assumed it would be called the Bigbird.
    That's what I've been calling it the last few years. The problem is, we didn't want to deal with a big company like HBO coming down on us...
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  24. #24
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    Ahhh... So that is what Chris was riding this morning when I saw him on South Mountain this morning. I didn't recognize the paintjob...

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    If it pedals up hill as good as they say =)

    Waiting for some middle aged, Clydesdale to review it first ;-)

    Plus, my eyes started watering as soon as I saw it & I felt the need to buy a sh1t load of 2 min noodles o_0

    'Born to ride!'
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    No frame only option?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maindog View Post
    No frame only option?
    If they haven't released a switchblade frame only why would they a firebird 29. Id buy a frame only tomorrow but alas. And pivot c'mon your XT build is not XT at all. It's SLX with an XT rear derailleur. False advertising!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    The funny thing is, we thought about that enough to figure out that there is a motorcycle called the Fireblade in Europe...
    CBR1000RR.

    -Hey when are you going to release a frame-only option so us engineer types can consider Pivot as an option? btw calling the Race build as 'XT' when it's all LX is pretty facepalm.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    If they haven't released a switchblade frame only why would they a firebird 29. Id buy a frame only tomorrow but alas. And pivot c'mon your XT build is not XT at all. It's SLX with an XT rear derailleur. False advertising!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    It's not false advertising at all. We clearly list all the parts on the website. We've never been shy about that.

    It's the same on the RACE XO1, mostly GX1, with an XO1 RD. Our competitors do the same, it's a common practice to call the kit by the best part on it. Our PRO bike we call it PRO XT/XTR as we are proud that it is 100% XT, with an XTR RD. Our competitors bikes have more SLX than XT and then they sneak an XTR RD on there for bling... or more NX1 with some GX1.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
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    When will Pivot pivot to sell stand-alone frames?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    When will Pivot pivot to sell stand-alone frames?
    Sorry Matt, it is currently not in the plans from Chris to sell frame only options. After talking to many of our dealers, they aren't seeing the demand for a frame only option. Most customers love our build options, and only need to change a few minor items to fit their needs.

    You can always work with your local PIVOT dealer to see if they can find something creative to suit your needs.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Sorry Matt, it is currently not in the plans from Chris to sell frame only options. After talking to many of our dealers, they aren't seeing the demand for a frame only option. Most customers love our build options, and only need to change a few minor items to fit their needs.

    You can always work with your local PIVOT dealer to see if they can find something creative to suit your needs.
    Thanks for the reply. It's just a bummer for the folks that already have good parts and want to move to a new frame. Not sure what the opportunity cost would be of simply offering frames, but if the traditional car dealer model is working for Pivot then its working for Pivot i guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    It's not false advertising at all. We clearly list all the parts on the website. We've never been shy about that.

    It's the same on the RACE XO1, mostly GX1, with an XO1 RD. Our competitors do the same, it's a common practice to call the kit by the best part on it. Our PRO bike we call it PRO XT/XTR as we are proud that it is 100% XT, with an XTR RD. Our competitors bikes have more SLX than XT and then they sneak an XTR RD on there for bling... or more NX1 with some GX1.
    Quote Originally Posted by maindog View Post
    No frame only option?
    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    If they haven't released a switchblade frame only why would they a firebird 29. Id buy a frame only tomorrow but alas. And pivot c'mon your XT build is not XT at all. It's SLX with an XT rear derailleur. False advertising!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Any info on the frame only option? I have built all my bikes for the last 20 years...

    Edit: I was typing this while someone posted above... Bummer... I guess I have to look somewhere else

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    Read above mate, no plans for a frame only option.
    Quote Originally Posted by maindog View Post
    Any info on the frame only option? I have built all my bikes for the last 20 years...
    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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    Got mine ordered. Sold my 5.5...A few more days and Iíll be shredding south mountain on a tasty new build! Well done Pivot! Some of the highest quality design work you can find, and itís right in my backyard. Does not suck.


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  36. #36
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    Firebird 29

    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    It's not false advertising at all. We clearly list all the parts on the website. We've never been shy about that.

    It's the same on the RACE XO1, mostly GX1, with an XO1 RD. Our competitors do the same, it's a common practice to call the kit by the best part on it. Our PRO bike we call it PRO XT/XTR as we are proud that it is 100% XT, with an XTR RD. Our competitors bikes have more SLX than XT and then they sneak an XTR RD on there for bling... or more NX1 with some GX1.
    hereís a tip put a xtr and xx1 chain on all your builds and call all of them as such! yeah every other bike brand does and they are all shameless as well! but I guess thereís still dumb people buying bikes so you actualy can fool a bunch...

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    Will the build kits eventually be updated to include bits and pieces from the new XTR M91XX groupsets when they become available?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Itís not fat Bike spacing. It is DH spacing.


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    Isn't 150 DH spacing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    hereís a tip put a xtr and xx1 chain on all your builds and call all of them as such! yeah every other bike brand does and they are all shameless as well! but I guess thereís still dumb people buying bikes so you actualy can fool a bunch...
    I've seen other brands [eg Transition] cut corners by using a GX cassette on an X01 built, but having 99% of the gruppo as STX and calling it an XT build because of the derailleur is just taking the piss.

    Ironically, the RD is the one piece I'd happily see down-graded as it is the most likely piece of componentry to get smashed/broken. Give us an XT shifter with an STX derailleur if you want to save some $$...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    It's not false advertising at all. We clearly list all the parts on the website. We've never been shy about that.

    It's the same on the RACE XO1, mostly GX1, with an XO1 RD. Our competitors do the same, it's a common practice to call the kit by the best part on it. Our PRO bike we call it PRO XT/XTR as we are proud that it is 100% XT, with an XTR RD. Our competitors bikes have more SLX than XT and then they sneak an XTR RD on there for bling... or more NX1 with some GX1.
    If you were being truthful you'd call it an SLX build wouldn't you ? And why do bike companies upgrade the rear derailleur? I'd rather it was the shifter. I was going to say stick an XTR chain on there and call it an XTR build then. But someone beat me to it. I know you're transparent with listing the components but the fact you call whats essentially an SLX build an XT build is misleading and a deliberate ploy.

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    My favorite colors from Pivot to date. The bikes keep getting prettier.

    Here is my only question... This is a 7lb frame with a half pound heavier rear shock. Why is the new trail 6.7lbs. Heavier/Cheaper carbon layup?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    If you were being truthful you'd call it an SLX build wouldn't you ? And why do bike companies upgrade the rear derailleur? I'd rather it was the shifter. I was going to say stick an XTR chain on there and call it an XTR build then. But someone beat me to it. I know you're transparent with listing the components but the fact you call whats essentially an SLX build an XT build is misleading and a deliberate ploy.

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    Great question. Smart marketing is all about promoting the bike and the key features. To some the shifter is more important, to others the brakes, while to another the wheels. For us, the RD has been the item we promote. Bang for buck itís more noticeable than the bushing over bearing in the SLX vs. XT shifter. We then list it on our page, and update it when changes happen. We canít be more transparent, as itís listed on the interwebs for everyone to see.

    Truth and marketing go hand in hand. We are honest and focused on providing performance at every level, which is why we pick the parts we do for each build level. Our Race bikes have parts that are less expensive, but we arenít using the cheapest items. They are less expensive without lacking in overall performance. Are we perfect with everything we pick, nope, be we try hard to pick best in class at the right price point in every build.

    Our Pro levels bikes have Factory Kashima forks. While many of our competitors use performance level forks. We make one Top End level of carbon frame while our competitors have two levels. Their introductory price points use frames that retail for $1,200 or more below their top level frames. And they price their bikes close to ours. When you look at each component at every level, we win the specification game.

    We also understand that PIVOT isnít a brand for everyone. We canít please every possible customer. Itís ok, it is what drives Chris to continue to develop the next bike. We hope one day to gain your loyalty. If we canít earn that now, we wonít give up trying.

    You are welcome to email me daniel@pivotcycles.com. Iím happy to take your feedback and share it with Chris and the design team.

    If you have general questions you can always email info@pivotcycles.com.


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    Quote Originally Posted by maindog View Post
    No frame only option?
    Yea no way intersted if no frame only. To have to buy the top model to get factory x2 is a bit of a joke

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    Whats the seat post diameter? Will I be able to fit a whole reverb 170mm down in the XL frame? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by mykle View Post
    Whats the seat post diameter? Will I be able to fit a whole reverb 170mm down in the XL frame? Thanks
    Why would you want a reverb?

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    Hehe, I want more travel. 150mm isnt enough for my long legs. Ps. I havent had any issues with my reverbs

  47. #47
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    You want value?

    Get a Canyon ^^

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    hereís a tip put a xtr and xx1 chain on all your builds and call all of them as such! yeah every other bike brand does and they are all shameless as well! but I guess thereís still dumb people buying bikes so you actualy can fool a bunch...
    Look, Pivot is a dentist's brand, and Dan admitted above that most of their customers don't know enough about bikes to spec their own parts - the only way they'd be satisfied with these builds. Because come on, they are pretty chitzy for the price.

    Plus coil shocks verboten... On a bike like this? Yeah, so your only possible customers are people that don't know any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    Look, Pivot is a dentist's brand, and Dan admitted above that most of their customers don't know enough about bikes to spec their own parts - the only way they'd be satisfied with these builds. Because come on, they are pretty chitzy for the price.

    Plus coil shocks verboten... On a bike like this? Yeah, so your only possible customers are people that don't know any better.
    Your comment is a little over the top but I canít disagree. A $7500 X01 build comes with a performance shock.

    I am looking at an Ibis Ripmo and they do build much better with options. You can select a group set and then A laí cartel in your shocks and wheels. You could get the cheapest NX drive train with factory shocks and carbon wheels or an X01 with performance shocks and aluminum wheels, and WOW even FRAMES! That is just crazy talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Great question. Smart marketing is all about promoting the bike and the key features.... We canít be more transparent, as itís listed on the interwebs for everyone to see.

    Truth and marketing go hand in hand. We are honest and focused on providing performance at every level, which is why we pick the parts we do for each build level.
    Just here to jump on the bandwagon. This response is bullshit marketing crap. No one is saying that Pivot isn't quality, but "smart marketing" appears to be to obfuscate what your product actually is by adding a $60.00 part. Shit, as others have mentioned, throw an XTR on there and call it: XTR special build!

    I'm sure most wouldn't complain if the only SLX part was the cassette, but what you've built is an $5100 SLX equipped bike.

    Just b/c you list it on the web doesn't make it "transparent." True "truth" in marketing would be to call it a SLX bike.

  51. #51
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    Add me to that list. I have not bought a complete bike since 2005. I think Cocalis is underestimating the demand of a frame only option.

    I went to a shop to check out Ripmoís the other day. Most of their stock was frame only and almost all of them pre-sold.


    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    Thanks for the reply. It's just a bummer for the folks that already have good parts and want to move to a new frame. Not sure what the opportunity cost would be of simply offering frames, but if the traditional car dealer model is working for Pivot then its working for Pivot i guess.

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    So much complaining about the kit names, I dont understand why you are so angry at this? Its just to read up on the spec, like you should do anyways... The main kits are Race, Pro and Team, and XT / X01 mostly describes if its Shimano or Sram...

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by richt2000 View Post
    Yea no way intersted if no frame only. To have to buy the top model to get factory x2 is a bit of a joke
    I was given the option to upgrade the shock to factory on a lesser build for around $100-$150. I can't recall the exact price as I ended up ordering an XX1 build, maybe dan23 can comment on this. Now the frame issue is a whole other deal that I also think is a mistake but Pivot did not offer it with the switchblade and they seem to be happy with the result of that decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    Look, Pivot is a dentist's brand, and Dan admitted above that most of their customers don't know enough about bikes to spec their own parts - the only way they'd be satisfied with these builds. Because come on, they are pretty chitzy for the price.

    Plus coil shocks verboten... On a bike like this? Yeah, so your only possible customers are people that don't know any better.
    The builds are actually pretty much in line with most competitors except the buy direct brands. For example if you look at the Yeti SB5.5 for $7,200 it comes with a GX cassette and GX chain which is about $300 less in cost than the X01 parts that come on the Pivot. If you upgrade those two components on the Yeti you are at the same retail price as the Pivot. If you build a Hightower LT XX1 to get factory fork and shock "they are not available on lesser models" you are at $9,300 which is the same price as the Pivot XX1 with carbon wheels. The $6,800 X01 spec hightower LT comes only with performance shock / fork and also comes with the cheaper X1 crank VS the actual X01 so you spend a little less you get a little less. The Ibis Ripmo you can get X01 with factory X2 shock for $7,369 and it's full X01 with no GX parts similar to the Pivot. The Yeti SB5.5 SLX/XT carbon spec that is the same price as the Pivot Race XT spec is also almost all SLX with a XT derailleur and it's also $5,000 but with what they call their cheaper and slightly heavier carbon frame. The difference is that they call it XT/SLX instead of Race XT.

    The trend to spec in lesser components or do a mix is not something new started by pivot it has been a change that has gotten more and more common for the past couple years. It used to be for the most part if you bought a spec like X01 it was all X01 but many vendors have found that most consumers are ok getting a couple cheaper parts mixed in or they simply don't know the difference and it adds a lot of profit at the end of the day when you are dealing with a few hundred dollars saved over thousands of units sold. I have noticed the pricing going up slightly on bikes with full spec components or not changing on mixed spec's. IMO I think the models should be listed as XT/SLX or X01/GX when they mix parts to be a bit more transparent to average consumers who might not know things listed in a spec sheet like a XG-1275 is a GX cassette and a XG-1295 is a X01 cassette.

  54. #54
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    There are UK dealers already taking pre-orders with 10% off RRPs, and offer a factory DPX2 as an upgrade over the performance for £100 more...

    If there is a frame only option, Iím interested.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    Look, Pivot is a dentist's brand, and Dan admitted above that most of their customers don't know enough about bikes to spec their own parts - the only way they'd be satisfied with these builds. Because come on, they are pretty chitzy for the price.

    Plus coil shocks verboten... On a bike like this? Yeah, so your only possible customers are people that don't know any better.
    this is pretty funny.

    agreed, a full-blown enduro bike without coil-sprung compatibility given current and growing sentiment for coil-sprung suspension is an oversight.


    -the inherent problem with complete builds:

    -ppl that have been around awhile are sick of KS Lev droppers - goes for Reverbs and arguably Fox Transfers as well. we don't want to pay extra for disposable parts that WILL be written off sooner or later.

    -the squishy Padloc grips and propietary hacked-off handlebars are horrid

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
    ..The Yeti SB5.5...difference is that they call it XT/SLX instead of Race XT. ...I think the models should be listed as XT/SLX or X01/GX when they mix parts to be a bit more transparent...
    Such a simple, reasonable, practical solution. Get to it Pivot!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    Add me to that list. I have not bought a complete bike since 2005. I think Cocalis is underestimating the demand of a frame only option.

    I went to a shop to check out Ripmoís the other day. Most of their stock was frame only and almost all of them pre-sold.
    Add me, too. I'd happily own a Trail 429, Switchblade, or Firebird 29. I really like riding Pivot bikes. But, I'll never buy one. I have zero interest in a package build for any bike above the $6k price point.

    I voted with my wallet and bought a Ripmo frame and fork. This is the second time I chose Ibis over Pivot because of no frame-only from Pivot. Both customers and Pivot lose out because of its "complete bike only" policy. Bummer!
    Last edited by ReXTless; 06-28-2018 at 08:59 AM.

  58. #58
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    This discussion actually moved me to register and post. I am in the market for a new bike so I have been reading these forum threads to help me determine what my next purchase will be. I started riding a couple of years ago and like some, I bought a bike that I enjoy but since then I have developed some preferences that my current bike no longer fulfills.

    I know I want a 29er and I am looking at the:

    -Yeti SB 5.5
    -Ibis Ripmo
    -Evil Wreckoning
    -And now the Pivot Firebird

    There are disctinct differences in this list and I am not posting to debate the best choice for me. I know I am the one that has to demo these bikes find the best fit and I can do that part. What is frustrating as a consumer is that the component packages offered do not suit my needs or my budget.

    I want to spend around $5k but also have the option to upgrade a few components which would put me over my budget but not $2.5k over my budget. If I choose to drop $7.5k on a bike then I want the option to buy a frame and build at my own pace with my own component choices. I donít want to spend that kind of cash and only get ďmost of what I want.Ē

    Ibis so far has the best of both worlds which so far is the best value in the eyes of a consumer. Is it the best bike for me? It remains to be seen but I will lean towards bikes that have upgrade options on key components like the X2 from a DPX2 shock. In the case of the Pivot, when I demo it I have a feeling that I will like this bike well enough to seriously consider buying it. Iím sure it is designed well and much thought has gone into the geometry but I have the same purchasing options as some of these other brands or have they been limited by the MFG which will probably steer me away to another bike.

    Once again, I posted because I noticed that company representatives watch this thread so as a consumer in the market for a new bike and a potential customer I am giving you valuable market database points. I donít know the ins and outs of this industry so Iím sure you have your reasons for your package offerings. But Iím also pretty sure that I am not the only guy out there that wants the option to either build from the frame up or to pick and choose some key components without being forced to upgrade in $2k increments just because I want a 12speed drivetrain, X2 shock, and some carbon bars.

    Sorry about the long read. I hope it is considered FWIW. Nice bike though... Iím excited to ride it. I hope it turns out to be a landscape changer and evolves to a more versatile value add build option.

  59. #59
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    if you haven't ruled out VPP, look at Intense and Santa Cruz. Both offer fairly reasonably priced framesets.

    That said, at the $5K pricepoint, sometimes it IS tough to beat a complete build.

    It IS hard to scale semi-customizable builds when doing volume, so i get that bike brands have limitations when it comes to this. doesn't mean it isn't or shouldn't be the future though. there a business opportunity for the folks that can make it work.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    if you haven't ruled out VPP, look at Intense and Santa Cruz. Both offer fairly reasonably priced framesets.

    That said, at the $5K pricepoint, sometimes it IS tough to beat a complete build.

    It IS hard to scale semi-customizable builds when doing volume, so i get that bike brands have limitations when it comes to this. doesn't mean it isn't or shouldn't be the future though. there a business opportunity for the folks that can make it work.
    Thanks for the suggestions. I agree, the $5k price point is tough but with some weight concessions I can do a Ripmo GX build and upgrade the forks to factory, X2 shock and carbon bars and still be in the mid $5.5 k range. Iíd like to see that kind of option add with Pivot or any other brand.

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    yep. the damper is more important than kashima.

    and honestly companies like Avalanche arguably make better options than Fox for damper upgrades.

    X2 shocks used can be had fairly cheap, just avoid the pre-recall ones. or go coil - MRP Hazard has a progressive spring option

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    yep. the damper is more important than kashima.

    and honestly companies like Avalanche arguably make better options than Fox for damper upgrades.

    X2 shocks used can be had fairly cheap, just avoid the pre-recall ones. or go coil - MRP Hazard has a progressive spring option
    Yeah that^^^ Iím a Clydesdale 225-230 with gear so itís all about damper.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykle View Post
    Whats the seat post diameter? Will I be able to fit a whole reverb 170mm down in the XL frame? Thanks
    Possibly, if your legs are long enough...
    We have this handy guide to help you out.
    http://www.pivotcycles.com/wp-conten...-Fit-Guide.pdf

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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vclimber View Post
    This discussion actually moved me to register and post. I am in the market for a new bike so I have been reading these forum threads to help me determine what my next purchase will be. I started riding a couple of years ago and like some, I bought a bike that I enjoy but since then I have developed some preferences that my current bike no longer fulfills.

    I know I want a 29er and I am looking at the:

    -Yeti SB 5.5
    -Ibis Ripmo
    -Evil Wreckoning
    -And now the Pivot Firebird

    There are disctinct differences in this list and I am not posting to debate the best choice for me. I know I am the one that has to demo these bikes find the best fit and I can do that part. What is frustrating as a consumer is that the component packages offered do not suit my needs or my budget.

    I want to spend around $5k but also have the option to upgrade a few components which would put me over my budget but not $2.5k over my budget. If I choose to drop $7.5k on a bike then I want the option to buy a frame and build at my own pace with my own component choices. I donít want to spend that kind of cash and only get ďmost of what I want.Ē

    Ibis so far has the best of both worlds which so far is the best value in the eyes of a consumer. Is it the best bike for me? It remains to be seen but I will lean towards bikes that have upgrade options on key components like the X2 from a DPX2 shock. In the case of the Pivot, when I demo it I have a feeling that I will like this bike well enough to seriously consider buying it. Iím sure it is designed well and much thought has gone into the geometry but I have the same purchasing options as some of these other brands or have they been limited by the MFG which will probably steer me away to another bike.

    Once again, I posted because I noticed that company representatives watch this thread so as a consumer in the market for a new bike and a potential customer I am giving you valuable market database points. I donít know the ins and outs of this industry so Iím sure you have your reasons for your package offerings. But Iím also pretty sure that I am not the only guy out there that wants the option to either build from the frame up or to pick and choose some key components without being forced to upgrade in $2k increments just because I want a 12speed drivetrain, X2 shock, and some carbon bars.

    Sorry about the long read. I hope it is considered FWIW. Nice bike though... Iím excited to ride it. I hope it turns out to be a landscape changer and evolves to a more versatile value add build option.
    Just my 2 cents but the 5.5 and RIPMO are one category (I currently ride a RIPMO) and the wreckoning and bird29 are a category and a step up in terms of bigger bike (I rode the 27.5 firebird until very recently). The firebird is much heavier than the RIPMO and more like a mini-DH rig as far as I can tell from sitting on one.
    Wish Pivot had made a 160/150 29er and a 29er DH bike instead of the bird29 and switchblade.

    Also what is with guide ultimate brakes on the xx1 build? Ever heard of code brakes? They are much better for a bike like this. I had ultimates on my park/ big bike and they just did not have enough power lap after lap. Switched to codes and bikes finally slowing down.

  65. #65
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    Hey dan, I am 5'11 and own a Large Firebird 27.5, what size do you recommend for a Firebird 29?

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    are firebird29s traveling with the demo fleet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrink View Post
    Also what is with guide ultimate brakes on the xx1 build? Ever heard of code brakes? They are much better for a bike like this.
    not to mention the Next ~SL~ cranks on the Big Bird. i know PIVOT thinks they know better than the customer, but some of these choices are interesting!

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    not to mention the Next ~SL~ cranks on the Big Bird. i know PIVOT thinks they know better than the customer, but some of these choices are interesting!
    Oh fun. I am not a heavy rider at 180lbs but those cranks cracked on me when I landed a bigger flatish drop with my foot a little off the pedal to the outside creating too much leverage. The carbon is really thin around the threads. Sixc have held up nicely aside from the preload setscrew coming loose every now and then. It's a beautifully looking bike though.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by vclimber View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. I agree, the $5k price point is tough but with some weight concessions I can do a Ripmo GX build and upgrade the forks to factory, X2 shock and carbon bars and still be in the mid $5.5 k range. Iíd like to see that kind of option add with Pivot or any other brand.
    Yes I am looking at the same thing. A GX ripmo with FACTORY x2 and fox 36 but I am going to grab the Ibis wheels with i9 hubs. It comes in $6858. It feel this is a lot better deal than the pivot builds. Better wheels and shocks than the pivot for less money. Frame is equally as good. The drivetrain will wear and I will upgrade it with the XX1 group set when it does.


    I own a top of the line team build XX1 2016 Mach 6 now. I would probably go with Pivot (firebird, switch blade, T429, just want a new bike lol) if there were flexible build options but right now after demoing the Pivot 5.5 and Ripmo and I leaning toward the Ibis.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotheronwheel View Post
    Hey dan, I am 5'11 and own a Large Firebird 27.5, what size do you recommend for a Firebird 29?
    Good question.

    I'm on XL on Firebird 27.5 and new Trail 429, but I went with large for the new Firebird 29 - it just looks so big on paper!
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Good question.

    I'm on XL on Firebird 27.5 and new Trail 429, but I went with large for the new Firebird 29 - it just looks so big on paper!
    Noah, now that you chimed in, could I ask you this question: Do you do your own builds ( on your Pivots ), do you customize a complete bike or do you leave it the way you received it?

  72. #72
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    Why all the whine? Pivot has the right to charge as much as they want. You can always go for YT, Canyon, Giant etc.
    I'd never get new Pivot (or similarly overpriced bike), but lightly used second hand can be had for half the MSRP and they're great bikes.

    Besides, now you can get Switchblade and upgrade to X2 for the fraction of the cost compared to new frames and SB with X2 is fantastic piece of kit and arguably more than good enough for 99% of people and you don't really need anything more aggressive than that.

  73. #73
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    Certainly would never whine on price. But do whine on lame components in top tier builds. I am 6'0 and was on a large 429T and medium 27.5 firebird which was perfect with the smaller wheels. BMX on steroids. Would go with a large for this one though and look very much forward to a demo. Could this replace my 27.5 180/180 uzzi as rowdy bike? Most definitely!!! Replace my RIPMO as trail bike probably not .

    RIPMO is back ordered until August/ September it seems and I honestly think it's a category below the firebird.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Good question.

    I'm on XL on Firebird 27.5 and new Trail 429, but I went with large for the new Firebird 29 - it just looks so big on paper!
    Be careful Noah, the slack fork n steep seattube will make that long toptube measurement about 1/2 shorter than your SB. I tried a Ibis HD4 and is was an inch shorter than the Mach 5.5 w same stem. Thought the small tt diff would be unnoticeable
    Nope sold it bought a Mach 6

  75. #75
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    Call me crazy but I'm fine with the idea of getting a bike just the way Pivot has tested and optimised it. There's so much noise around what products are best for a given purpose that I'd find it hard to decide on a drivetrain, rims, seatpost etc unless I had plenty of time to ride different configurations of other bikes. And building a frame up is an expensive road to go down. IMO there are very few things to change on the Pivot builds, other that that they are seriously underbraked.

    My FB has Saint brakes and 203mm rotors, Renthal cockpit and an MRP ramp cartridge. Everything else on it is gold.

  76. #76
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    It's too bad there isn't a frame option, I've got all new components for a build minus the frame and fork. I would've been all over that frame. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by vclimber View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. I agree, the $5k price point is tough but with some weight concessions I can do a Ripmo GX build and upgrade the forks to factory, X2 shock and carbon bars and still be in the mid $5.5 k range. Iíd like to see that kind of option add with Pivot or any other brand.
    Have you considered the YT Capra 29? Also don't see the HTLT on your list either. Both are great options, but there are a lot of really good options out there so it has to be narrowed down somehow.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotheronwheel View Post
    Hey dan, I am 5'11 and own a Large Firebird 27.5, what size do you recommend for a Firebird 29?
    Youíre right in the middle of a medium or a large. Iíd suggest you test ride them both to be sure. That large is longer than your current large. But depending on your riding style, arm and torso length the large may fit just fine. Check the reach numbers and compare that to how you have your bike set up.


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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrink View Post
    are firebird29s traveling with the demo fleet?
    They will be. Not sure when each fleet will receive their size run.


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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you considered the YT Capra 29? Also don't see the HTLT on your list either. Both are great options, but there are a lot of really good options out there so it has to be narrowed down somehow.
    I have... and the YTís are a great value. Iím looking for an uphill ride like the Yeti that has a downhill feel like the Capra or Wrecker. I was hoping the Firebird turns out to be that bike. 29Ē LT Options are definitely increasing... Lol- at this rate Iíll be riding demos all summer.

  81. #81
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    Iím not sure I have seen a cable routed outside and under the BB like on this bike. Is that something to be concerned about? Seems like the more openings you have, the more chances of water transporting dirt to the pressfit BB.

  82. #82
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    Been building my own bikes for almost 20 yrs and did the same with my 2011 Firebird. I was a little surprised this year when I was ready to build a new bike and the 5.5 was spec only. I was on the fence between the Calling and the 5.5 and went with the Calling because I could build it the way I wanted. If mt.bike's hadn't jumped the shark price wise it wouldn't be that big a deal, but if I'm ponying up 6G's or more I want the bike the way I want it, especially the wheel set. And I like bling so I like to color match.
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  83. #83
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    I wish Pivot would stop dangling the shift housing down low under the BB. Past offenders I've owned (Specialized & Transition) don't even do it anymore. The risk of underbrush, errant sticks, or kicked up rocks is real.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockland View Post
    I wish Pivot would stop dangling the shift housing down low under the BB. Past offenders I've owned (Specialized & Transition) don't even do it anymore. The risk of underbrush, errant sticks, or kicked up rocks is real.
    Itís a head scratcher for sure. And it looks lame .

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    Intense was doing this too for a while. Had a stick get stuck and pull the cable and a kicked up rock cut the rear brake line. Freak accidents though. Nothing happened on my pivots. Using a bash guard I think helps mitigate a little but agree it's not ideal. Would not make this a deal breaker. Option to switch to sixc cranks would be nice though for us flat pedal warriors.

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    I'm baffled by the lack of a frame only option.. seems really, really dumb.

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    I don't have any problems with what/how Pivot names the builds, but in thinking about this thread, maybe something like:

    Sport Shimano/SRAM (Deore/SLX mix or GX/NX mix)
    Race Shimano/SRAM (SLX/XT mix or XO1/GX mix)
    Pro Shimano/SRAM (XT/XTR mix or XO1)
    Team Shimano/SRAM (XTR or XX1Eagle)

    + on any of the above for the carbon wheel package.

    Get rid of the level of components as part of the package name and no more confusion to complain about. Oh, and I'll take a Team Shimano+ when 9100 is available!

  88. #88
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    Agreed. I would just name them Team, Pro, Race, Sport or something similar. Eliminate any confusion. I don't have a beef with the selection of components but I do with the build kit names. It used to be if you named a kit XT or XTR xo1 Etc that, that was the level of all components. I understand that Pivot aren't the only ones doing it but I still think it is purely an annoying marketing ploy.

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  89. #89
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    Now that everyone (hopefully) have told what the kits should have been named...

    What do you think is the best kits (bang for the buck)?

    Im thinking the Pro XT kit looks best for me, as I really would like the X2 shock and Factory fork and shimano drive train is cheaper to maintain. Will perhaps use the sunrace 11-50 cassette next time its time to change. Its also possible to upgrade the X2 shock to factory edt for about 125-150 USD. Worth it?

  90. #90
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    Pro kit XT all the way for me. Same kit I have on the new Mach 6. Very good wheels and cheap to covert to xd if you want. The only part I don't like is the XT cassette which I switched out for e13 46-9 w an xd driver. I ended up swapping the brakes for Magura trail Sports as I had them and the XTs are so easy to sell.
    Many of my crew are eagle fans they all went pro XO1. Absolutely no worth $1k to me for $300 you can get the e13 same range w/o the low hanging der and dinner plate 50.
    Although I sprung for the X2 upgrade I would have gladly settled for the Performance X2 if it was available. IMHO If your between 140-190 the extra adjustability may not be worth it

  91. #91
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    Agree that's the best build offered value wise. X2 upgrade to factory can make sense for a longer travel bike as you will gain the ability to dial HSR and HSC. Personally I think the money is better spend on a custom tune from avy and the likes and I would decide based on your kashima preference as well. It always bugs when I have a fox factory fork and performance shock. Either all black or all kashima.

  92. #92
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    I went with the TEAM XTR build for this one. However on my 5.5 I did the Pro XT and upgraded to X2 and Reynolds, and a Fox transfer post. At that point the only real variants were the shifter, cranks, and saddle. Saved some cash and still had high quality build.


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    I have an unused pair of Code RSCs to swap out the XT brakes. Will think about the x2 factory. Im thinking it might increase the resale value, and its really wet and muddy where I ride so the kashima is nice to have as well.
    Is it smart to get the 17mm headset cup right away, even though i wont use 27.5 in the near future?

    Any news on when they are shipped to Europe?
    Last edited by mykle; 06-26-2018 at 05:49 AM.

  94. #94
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    Are you selling the xt brakes? Are they 4 piston, 8020?
    RIDE EBIKES - DRINK BEER - REPEAT!

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    I was told by Pivot that a large Firebird 29 only has a max of 220 mm of seatpost insertion depth. This seems kinda small by current standards, especially considering the growing popularity of 175mm droppers. I think the shortest 170ish dropper is the One Up at around 250mm, and some 150mm droppers are around 240mm like the KS Lev Integra. Anyway, just a warning to those looking to run a long dropper, or to those who like to slam their seat for super gnarly descents. This was a deal killer for me.

  96. #96
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    I suggest take that in concert with the seat tube. Some of the bikes have so low seattubes that even a slammed 170 is not enough - looking at you RIPMO

  97. #97
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    True, but the Ripmo also has a very short seat tube. For size large, Ripmo = 418 mm and Firebird = 457 mm.

  98. #98
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    you are right. I somehow misread firebird as 427....that is potentially a problem for the large then if you like to go really looooow. The RIPMO had been a relevation in that regard I have to say.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Sorry Matt, it is currently not in the plans from Chris to sell frame only options. After talking to many of our dealers, they aren't seeing the demand for a frame only option. Most customers love our build options, and only need to change a few minor items to fit their needs.

    You can always work with your local PIVOT dealer to see if they can find something creative to suit your needs.
    dan23 I would disagree with your statement, there is a large demand for frame only options after talking with JRA cycles in Ma and on the threads here on MTBR and pinkbike. You are losing business with 6 guys in my riding group just by not offering it in frame only and your build specs are not that great for the money.

    Time to have a meeting and get this figured out.

    -Nolan

  100. #100
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    I would think complete builds are more profitable for the company.
    RIDE EBIKES - DRINK BEER - REPEAT!

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