Cracked Pivot Mach 429 Frame- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Cracked Pivot Mach 429 Frame

    Hi,

    wanted to give people a fair warning before they jump into buying a Pivot bicycle. I bought my wife a Mach 429 in Nov. 2013, the frame was around $1,700. Earlier this year, during regular maintenance, a bike mechanic noticed a crack on the underside of the head tube close to the seat tube weld, according to his opinion it was a manufacturing defect. My wife rode this bike maybe 10 times per year, short rides on easy and medium trails. When we contacted Pivot they asked us to drop off the bike at an authorized dealer, then they wanted to have the frame with purchase receipts sent to them. This process took them one month.

    Pivot told us that the frame was indeed cracked and that the warranty (3 years) had expired, nothing we did not know already. What bothered me was that the rep told me over the phone that a crack on a frame of this age is not unusual and that these aluminum frames were built with a short life expectancy (3-5 years). Certainly they didn't mention this in the product description back when I bought the bike. I was offered discounts on a new Pivot frame but didn't feel like spending more money on any of their products.

    Bernd
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cracked Pivot Mach 429 Frame-20191020-img_1098.jpg  

    Cracked Pivot Mach 429 Frame-20191020-img_1104.jpg  

    Cracked Pivot Mach 429 Frame-20191020-img_1110.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Are you upset the frame cracked or the rep's nonsense response around frame life-----cannot tell from your description. If it is the rep you could escalate and see if that gets a better deal or a more satisfactory response----or would you reject any deal from Pivot for whatever reason and so decide to post here for the first time

    Pivot in most cases has a super reputation around customer service and their bikes are some of the most robust overall. Many folks on these forums have Pivots and quality and customer service are general strong points. I personally had a Mach 429 carbon frame issue and could not have been more impressed with how they handled it.

    All mfg's have frames that fail--no real news there--it is how they respond that differentiates them. Honestly Pivot looks pretty good here---they agreed it is cracked and offered you a discount on a post warranty part----sounds pretty fair for an almost 7 year old part. What do you want from them ? Normally that would get a positive review on these forums on the mfg.

    Have you looked into having a metal shop weld that-or at least have them look at it and give you an opinion---years ago I had an aluminum frame totally fail in the middle of the top tube and I had the local shop re-weld it-----I was young and had no money but this worked but may have been stupid. There are probably shops folks on this forum may be aware of that would do this type of repair----certainly it is a regular biz with carbon frames.

    Overall I not get the point ---out of warranty part-----mfg offers deal they do not have to give and then posts here unhappy for the first time----feels like bad feelings when he was treated more than fair

  3. #3
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    So if you were aware that the warranty had expired, and even so, Pivot offered you a discount on a new frame, what is your point?


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  4. #4
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    Well, at least you bought a white frame.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  5. #5
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    If you’re going to be upset that the frame cracked after 7 years and was out of warranty, you shouldn’t have bought a frame with a 3-year warranty. The facts actually do not inpugne Pivot in any way.

  6. #6
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    I hate it when new members arrive on any forum with a not-so-hot hot take in hand. Welcome to MTBR!

  7. #7
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    Have broken a Pivot frame, had a excellent customer service experience.

  8. #8
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    I'm not a fan of using the forums to shame a company.

  9. #9
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    I broke my 429sl carbon. They warrantied it during the warranty period. I then went and bought a Vault and the new Mach 4SL.

  10. #10
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    Of all the bike companies I've dealt with through the years Pivot was the best. Most were actually pretty darn good with their dealings, but Pivot, wow they really went out of their way. Chris contacted me himself.

  11. #11
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    I’ve broken many frames. Pivot is one of the better manufacturers to deal with. The old alloy 429 frames are some of the toughest frames I’ve owned.


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  12. #12
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    It’s too bad that a $1700 frame didn’t come with more than a 3 year warranty. To me that’s a red flag, but I understand why a company is offering such a short warranty, too.

    Too late to do anything about it now.

    You should be able to sell the frame or part it out if you want to switch brands.

    I would also try going up the chain with pivot to see if you can get a better deal on a replacement. These situations stink, but they are also opportunities to work out a better solution.

    Also, good on you for posting, as it keeps everyone on their toes. And these types of posts are helpful to the rest of us.

    Personally, i am likely buying a new bike this year or early next. Pivot is on that short list, along with knolly, Ibis, and Santa cruz. I break frames and the warranty is important. I don’t think a 3 year is standard on pivot these days, and the Ibis i am looking at is 7. SC is lifetime and great service. knolly? Breaking their frame? forget about it. I have no idea what Knolly warranty is and I own one, it’s a beast.








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  13. #13
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    Not shaming anybody. The facts are the bike frame was expensive, saw little use, and broke. The rep told me that when the frame was sold Pivot had to compete with lightweight carbon frames from other manufacturers and therefore built their alu frames light in order to sell. Not sure if this is the case, but certainly would explain the short warranty.
    Finally, the bike mechanic who told me that this is a manufacturing defect has been in the business for 20+ years, he worked as a mechanic on a professional racing team.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    I'm not a fan of using the forums to shame a company.
    Is that what he thinks he's doing?

    You cannot use a product for 7 years and complain a tube crack is on the maker. YOU broke your bike. Go buy another. Your mechanic is a dumbass

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Finally, the bike mechanic who told me that this is a manufacturing defect has been in the business for 20+ years, he worked as a mechanic on a professional racing team.
    Doesn't matter, that's what the warranty period is for. She should have ridden harder in that time to get more use out of it then. You are the one that bought the lightweight XC bike. Is that the right bike for someone? Maybe. I do XC racing so it's the right bike for that kind of use, but it's not my "everyday" bike either. Looking at that up close, it didn't actually crack on the weld. It's below the weld. It may have something to do with the stress around that part, but an obvious mfg defect is often cracking along the weld. Without doing an destructive analysis, it's impossible to say what the real cause was. That's right up my alley of profession. Sometimes things like bike-racks can impose stresses that weren't thought of, sometimes seat-post extension on a frame too small (even with proper insertion), and so on. None of these is "the cause", but the point is without testing it, you really don't know what the cause was. You might have an idea of how it was ridden, but you also may not have watched her 100% of the time. That's just not realistic usually.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Not shaming anybody. The facts are the bike frame was expensive, saw little use, and broke. The rep told me that when the frame was sold Pivot had to compete with lightweight carbon frames from other manufacturers and therefore built their alu frames light in order to sell. Not sure if this is the case, but certainly would explain the short warranty.
    Finally, the bike mechanic who told me that this is a manufacturing defect has been in the business for 20+ years, he worked as a mechanic on a professional racing team.
    Some unsolicited advice, and you probably don’t need this, but “shaming” BS is just that, pay it no mind. Get in touch with someone higher up at Pivot and be prepared to talk dollars. Hopefully you get a better deal, and if not, then at least you gave it a shot.

    If you focus too much on trying to “right the wrong” it won’t go anywhere.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Is that what he thinks he's doing?

    You cannot use a product for 7 years and complain a tube crack is on the maker. YOU broke your bike. Go buy another. Your mechanic is a dumbass
    Try again Nov. 2013 to Sept. 2019 how many years is that, and who is the dumbass?

  18. #18
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    @bernd01 Do you ride your mountain bike? Do you have anything to say, other than how mad you are that Pivot made you an offer that was better than what they had to per the terms of their warranty?

  19. #19
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    https://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/s...y-1119071.html

    There is a similar thread on the Santa Cruz page as well today. Outside of warranty period, first post, offered a discounted price on the new frame because older frame is no longer supported, upset anyway.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Try again Nov. 2013 to Sept. 2019 how many years is that, and who is the dumbass?
    If I was Pivot, I would carefully record all your contact information and put you on the "fired customers" list.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Some unsolicited advice, and you probably don’t need this, but “shaming” BS is just that, pay it no mind.


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    To each their own, but I don't think it is BS. You get more flies with honey, not vinegar. Bernd is angry (and I would be a little as well probably), but a public trashing is not going to win people over. Agree with you though to try to contact someone higher up, but I'd delete this thread if I were doing that.

  22. #22
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    Regardless of how much it was ridden, the warranty period was 3 years. You were well in excess of that. (6 or 7 years is inconsequential in my book)

    If it were me I wouldn't have even pursued it. A contract is a contract in my mind. You don't break it. It was actually very nice of Pivot to offer you anything IMO.

    Let it go and either buy the reduced price frame or find a different manufacturer.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoDakSooner View Post
    Regardless of how much it was ridden, the warranty period was 3 years. You were well in excess of that. (6 or 7 years is inconsequential in my book)

    If it were me I wouldn't have even pursued it. A contract is a contract in my mind. You don't break it. It was actually very nice of Pivot to offer you anything IMO.

    Let it go and either buy the reduced price frame or find a different manufacturer.
    Good idea. In fact, if you really want to get righteously pissed off, go buy a Yeti...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Hi,

    wanted to give people a fair warning before they jump into buying a Pivot bicycle.
    We've owned 2 Pivots and they were great bikes. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Glad to hear they went out of their way to offer you a crash replacement frame.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Not shaming anybody. The facts are the bike frame was expensive, saw little use, and broke. The rep told me that when the frame was sold Pivot had to compete with lightweight carbon frames from other manufacturers and therefore built their alu frames light in order to sell. Not sure if this is the case, but certainly would explain the short warranty.
    Finally, the bike mechanic who told me that this is a manufacturing defect has been in the business for 20+ years, he worked as a mechanic on a professional racing team.
    Hello Bernd and Suzy,

    I'm not sure what outcome you are expecting from posting on this form. PIVOT has given your situation an enormous amount of attention. Your situation has been reviewed by our Global Sales Manager, and myself (former Global Sales Manager - I've worked here for 10.5 years, have seen every possible warranty claim, was the warranty guy, sales guy, manager guy for a number of years...) I share that information just so you are aware of who I am, and understand my position and reasoning for reaching out publicly.

    I am very thankful for all the posts in this thread, those that have posted have shared their opinion of your situation, and show their support towards PIVOT in our efforts to offer you a reasonable solution.

    We stand by our product, and will continue to do so. Though we cannot meet your demands of a free replacement frame for a frame that is out of warranty, we have offered you above and beyond our obligations for this situation.

    Nick and the people at Element Cycles have gone above and beyond to try to help you and your situation as well. Together with them we are committed to helping you.

    As a company policy we don't publicly announce what solutions were offered to you, nor will we openly discuss the condition of your frame in this claim. I'm willing to open up and share more information here if you'd like.

    Please note, we still stand behind what was offered to you, and will gladly move forward with what we have offered. At any point, you are welcome to accept the offers we have presented, as they are very reasonable, and in your favor to accept.

    You are welcome to call me at work if you would like to finalize the offers we have presented you. My name is Daniel Limburg, the number for PIVOT is 480-467-2920, you can email me at [email protected]
    Last edited by dan23; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:12 AM.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I don’t think a 3 year is standard on pivot these days
    3 year warranty on alloy is standard with most of our competitors. That is what we offer.

    We offer 10 year warranty on all carbon frames.

    https://www.pivotcycles.com/en/warranty

    We also offer a non-warranty replacement cost for frames that fail due to outside forces, be that crashing, garage doors, vehicles, or other impacts... We will always work with you to find a solution. We are riders as well, and we want to keep you riding, and if possible keep you on a PIVOT.

    If you have question feel free to call us, or you can live chat us on the site too.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post

    You are welcome to call me at work if you would like to finalize the offers we have presented you. My name is Daniel Limburg, the number for PIVOT is 480-467-2920, you can email me at [email protected]
    More class than San Diego in @dan23 post. If Trek didn't give me such killer deals a post this detailed would have me giving Pivot a very close look for next bike.

  28. #28
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    Bernd01, During all of this, did you happen to ask when the updated Switchblade will be released?
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Get in touch with someone higher up at Pivot and be prepared to talk dollars. Hopefully you get a better deal, and if not, then at least you gave it a shot.
    It seems from Dan23's response below he DID give it a shot, the higher ups offered him a better deal and he wasn't willing to talk any dollars at all. Now we have this thread.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Try again Nov. 2013 to Sept. 2019 how many years is that, and who is the dumbass?
    Not name calling anybody, but doesn't this mean your warranty period was up in Nov. 2016? 35 months ago? That seems like a long stretch of time to ask for a grace period...

  31. #31
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    Your mechanic is wrong. One of the reasons I bought the 429 is that it was billed as a XC bike that could actually be used as a trail bike. They were correct. Scalpels, Epics, etc kind of suck on techier trails. People at that time and it continues to this day feel that Pivots are overweight. But they don’t noodle when mashing through a rock garden and they hold a line through fast chunk.


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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToolBehindTheWrench View Post
    It seems from Dan23's response below he DID give it a shot, the higher ups offered him a better deal and he wasn't willing to talk any dollars at all. Now we have this thread.
    Well, then it was still a fun read, and I skimmed over that post.

    A 3 year warranty on a frame is too short for someone like me, but when you know it up front, AND the company will still try and work with you, then you have exhausted all options.

    Oh, and then when you start the internet forum thread, AFTER all that, then you really have exhausted all options.

    Whether a frame warranty seems reasonable, before you buy the bike, is up to you the customer to decide. But it’s a competitive market and there are other options if you prefer a longer warranty.

    Like I said above you cannot “right the wrong” because there was no wrong to right. All you can do is try and improve your situation, but if you previously squandered that opportunity, then the internet can’t save you.




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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    3 year warranty on alloy is standard with most of our competitors. That is what we offer.

    We offer 10 year warranty on all carbon frames.

    https://www.pivotcycles.com/en/warranty

    We also offer a non-warranty replacement cost for frames that fail due to outside forces, be that crashing, garage doors, vehicles, or other impacts... We will always work with you to find a solution. We are riders as well, and we want to keep you riding, and if possible keep you on a PIVOT.

    If you have question feel free to call us, or you can live chat us on the site too.
    Thanks for clarifying that for me. When i said “red flag” I don’t mean it is inappropriate warranty. Just that it is too short a time for me, given the cost of the bike and that I tend to be hard on the frames I have owned.

    If someone, like me, wants more insurance then they should consider frames with longer warranty, like Pivot carbon.

    I did check Specialized, trek, and Giant, which probably not best comparison given their size relative to Pivot, but Pivot aluminum warranty is pretty much equivalent to Trek aluminum.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    If someone, like me, wants more insurance then they should consider frames with longer warranty, like Pivot carbon.
    But, as my friend who owns LBS pointed out to me, a 10 year warranty really isn't that great a deal. What happens when your bike breaks at year 10, or even 5, and none of your parts swap over because of changing "standards"? You're basically buying a new bike at that point anyway. That's exactly what happened to me when my Mach 5.7 broke.

    The crash replacement discount Pivot offered was just enough to make switching brands uneconomical for me - or else I'd likely be on a different brand right now. I'm sure the same is true of any brand's "amigo pricing".

    Frankly, while I love everything about my new Pivot, I've read enough instances of their frames breaking that I'm fairly nervous.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    But, as my friend who owns LBS pointed out to me, a 10 year warranty really isn't that great a deal. What happens when your bike breaks at year 10, or even 5, and none of your parts swap over because of changing "standards"? You're basically buying a new bike at that point anyway. That's exactly what happened to me when my Mach 5.7 broke.
    Keep in mind that the 10 year warranty only covers manufacturing defects. There are many ways your frame can break that would not be covered under the warranty even if it happened under the 10 year window. In that case you'd be looking at a crash replacement deal regardless.
    Safe riding,

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    But, as my friend who owns LBS pointed out to me, a 10 year warranty really isn't that great a deal. What happens when your bike breaks at year 10, or even 5, and none of your parts swap over because of changing "standards"? You're basically buying a new bike at that point anyway. That's exactly what happened to me when my Mach 5.7 broke.

    The crash replacement discount Pivot offered was just enough to make switching brands uneconomical for me - or else I'd likely be on a different brand right now. I'm sure the same is true of any brand's "amigo pricing".

    Frankly, while I love everything about my new Pivot, I've read enough instances of their frames breaking that I'm fairly nervous.
    Agree on discounting even a lifetime warranty, but it can still have value v. Nothing.

    3 years is too short for me. I'd only be interested if the price is significant lower. I'd have no problem with 7 years, and 10 on Pivot Carbon is plenty for me.

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  37. #37
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    Always love when people come on a trash a company for not meeting their unreasonable expectations and then the community fires right back- not what the poster is expecting.

    bernd01 if you haven't figured it out- you're one of 'those' customers.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernd01 View Post
    Try again Nov. 2013 to Sept. 2019 how many years is that, and who is the dumbass?
    It appears, you are the dumdass...you should really take the discounted new frame; you could always sell it

  39. #39
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    OP, You should be doing back flips with excitement after breaking that outdated dinosaur and gladly accept what ever offer Pivot presented to you, but you just don't get it!

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