wissahickon trail report- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    wissahickon trail report

    I live in a neighborhood off of the park and bike the trails of the Wissahickon 2 or 3 times a week if conditions allow. This being the Northeast, I often find myself hiking the trails because of wet conditions. On these walks I routinely see bikers out in conditions that are destructive to the trail and to the image of mountain bikers.

    This past weekend, the ground was saturated from melting snow, the trails were muddy in every spot that wasn't icy, and I saw car after car unloading bikes. Today on a hike I saw the resulting deep ruts in the trail.

    Like on many occasions, I was pissed and felt entirely unsurprised that many hikers don’t like us. There have been times when I've tried to give friendly advise to other bikers, but sometimes its hard to tell someone they should not be on the trail without creating a confrontation. Many of us have had the unpleasant experience of meeting the overzealous trail Nazi that frequents the area by Park Line Drive. Being a mountain biker first and foremost, I know that his shouting has an entirely negative effect. I can sympathize with folks who see nice weather out their window, drive to the trailhead and find less than ideal conditions. I believe that most folks want to do the right thing, but are sometimes tempted when faced with the choice of driving home empty handed or catching a quick ride and hoping no one will notice.

    I am proposing that we keep a trail conditions report on this forum. Those of us who are local can post the conditions, especially when heading up to the weekends. Folks considering coming to the area can check the conditions report before leaving. There are some times of year when some areas are okay and others, due to shade or wind conditions are not. These conditional reports could be posted here as well.

    So here goes the first report:
    Many areas of the trails are soft due to melting snow and should not be ridden during the day. In theory, a night or early morning ride could be had on frozen ground. There are a number of icy sections that would, however, make this a treacherous affair.

    For riders that use the park, what are your thoughts on the idea of this report here on MTBR? Would you use or contribute to it?

    Cheers,
    Matt
    P.S. Is there any way that the moderator can make this post sticky?

  2. #2
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    Good idea - it probably doesn't need to be a sticky if there are semi-regular reports.

    My friend and I rode out from Center City on Sunday arvo, but were greeted with largely icy or slushy trails. We deferred to Belmont where things were not quite so slushy, but still not so great for riding (at least with my tyres).

    So yes, a pre-weekend conditions report might save us braving the cold for what amounts to a ride up and down Kelly Drive (which I guess is better than nothing)

  3. #3
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    Good thinking

    Tough walking that fine line between friendly advice regarding trail conditions and being perceived as the Trail Nazi. Bottom line, riding the trails when they're sloppy is irresponsible. A couple of thoughst for you:

    If you're not already affiliated with them, you may want to get in touch with Jersey Action Riders. JAR does a lot of work at Wiss and Jay could probably use another set of eyes, ears and hands. I think Jay posts on here from time to time (JARhead, perhaps?), so he may pipe in about keepin the trails in decent shape.

    Beyond that Joe Transue (hackamo) is the IMBA rep for PA and if you look through the thread here, I think he's looking for an advocate tor Wiss if you're interested in getting involved. Not looking to push you past the offer of helping to maintain a thread that monitors trail conditions, just tossing out potential advocates and other ways of helping.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    I live in a neighborhood off of the park and bike the trails of the Wissahickon 2 or 3 times a week if conditions allow. This being the Northeast, I often find myself hiking the trails because of wet conditions. On these walks I routinely see bikers out in conditions that are destructive to the trail and to the image of mountain bikers.

    This past weekend, the ground was saturated from melting snow, the trails were muddy in every spot that wasn't icy, and I saw car after car unloading bikes. Today on a hike I saw the resulting deep ruts in the trail.

    Like on many occasions, I was pissed and felt entirely unsurprised that many hikers don’t like us. There have been times when I've tried to give friendly advise to other bikers, but sometimes its hard to tell someone they should not be on the trail without creating a confrontation. Many of us have had the unpleasant experience of meeting the overzealous trail Nazi that frequents the area by Park Line Drive. Being a mountain biker first and foremost, I know that his shouting has an entirely negative effect. I can sympathize with folks who see nice weather out their window, drive to the trailhead and find less than ideal conditions. I believe that most folks want to do the right thing, but are sometimes tempted when faced with the choice of driving home empty handed or catching a quick ride and hoping no one will notice.

    I am proposing that we keep a trail conditions report on this forum. Those of us who are local can post the conditions, especially when heading up to the weekends. Folks considering coming to the area can check the conditions report before leaving. There are some times of year when some areas are okay and others, due to shade or wind conditions are not. These conditional reports could be posted here as well.

    So here goes the first report:
    Many areas of the trails are soft due to melting snow and should not be ridden during the day. In theory, a night or early morning ride could be had on frozen ground. There are a number of icy sections that would, however, make this a treacherous affair.

    For riders that use the park, what are your thoughts on the idea of this report here on MTBR? Would you use or contribute to it?

    Cheers,
    Matt
    P.S. Is there any way that the moderator can make this post sticky?
    Your correct - being a local as well my friends & I have gotten to know that the trail conditions all depend on weather in winter, - this week seems like it may be ok since the ground is frozen - but with warmer weather coming again for this weekend (in the low 50's) the ground will thaw again & make it a mess - we have not ridden in weeks since the first snow fall (if thats what ya wanna call it) knowing how the ground freezes (which is fine) but then we get rain or snow - it stays frozen then wams up just enough for the ground to thaw - which absorbs all the snow & ice & it goes back & forth for a few months like this, some ppl see warm weather & forget about the other conditions - i hate winter for this reason alone

  5. #5
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    i yelled here about this last year and will again tihs year.

    during winter trails don't really have time to dry out: to us thoughtful bikers that means YOU HAVE TO RIDE WHEN THE TEMPS ARE BELOW FREEZING. unless we get some super dry spell (which we won't) this is the rule till it becomes warm enough to dry the trails out again.

    other than that and you are doing serious damage.... go early, go late, just make sure the temp is below 32 (and trails have had a chance to harden up) and you'll be fine.

    yesterday i got to ride till about 1, if it is warmer (it was COLD yesterday) you won't even get till then.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for everyone's input.
    Clyde, yeah, I know about the local trail groups and appreciate their maintenance efforts. I was hoping that this could fill a gap in their approach by informing riders when the trail should not be ridden. In the past, I have considered asking if JAR would be interested in spending time in the bells mill parking lot discouraging folks on a drizzly Sunday. I never did, because I decided it would be too confrontational an approach.

    Max, I thought this would be a positive and ongoing way of getting what we both want. I'm pretty sure you're a local as well, so you are one of the folks who I would really appreciate occasional info from. There are a bunch of times when its freezing here, but not in Jersey, or when sunny spots get muddy even when its a few degrees under the line. Thanks for the report you put up, hopefully it will help some folks when deciding when to ride for today and tomorrow.

    One thing I've noticed while hiking the Indian trail this week is that the trails maintain ice longer than the woods. I think this is due to the traffic on the trail compacting the snow, which makes it into ice sheets that don't melt as easily as the unpacked snow. These sheets get pretty treacherous and I don't like to ride with a light while they are around. Night riding is pretty key to staying on frozen ground for a lot of folks with jobs. It'd be great if we could report on the status of the ice as well as temperature and mud.

    One last note, somewhat unrelated. Someone cut a connector trail where the Indian trail meets the jeep road with the scenic bench (down from Chestnut Hill Ave.). Over the last year, there have actually been a few here, this latest one is particularly lame, as it is on a very erodable slope of soft dirt and at an angle that is going to wash out easily. I covered the trail with sticks a few days ago. Could everyone stay off that trail, and if the sticks get moved, could you take a minute to throw some back? I think a little persistence here will get the point across to whoever is cutting up this area. Thanks.

  7. #7
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    Do we have a moderator?

    I think the concensus is that having a sticky on a Wiss trail conditions thread is a good idea. Who do we see to request that one be put up? It could actually be a generic "Trail Conditions" thread to report on any trail. Just use the appropriate title, e.g "Wiss Trail conditions, 12/21" or "French Creek trail conditions 12/21".

    So.....who's our moderator?
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  8. #8
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    I requested a sticky

    FWIW, I requested a sticky for trail conditions in the Site Issues/Feedback forum. I looked at the moderators list, and PA doesn't appear to have a moderator and this seemed the most logical place to request it. Any input on my thoughts that the sticky be a general Trail Conditions thread to be used by all, as opposed to focusing it solely on Wiss? Seems to me it would maximise the use of the thread, and open it up to the whole PA MTB community.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  9. #9
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    Conditions for this Fri. and Sat.

    Will Wiss be too sloppy to ride tomorrow or Sat.?

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    I was wondering the same thing. Tomorrow may be better than Sat. Last I saw, they were calling for some rain this weekend, and temps in the 40's. Sounds like slop to me.
    Might try to get out tomorrow though, if the ground is relatively frozen. Any idea if it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkup
    Will Wiss be too sloppy to ride tomorrow or Sat.?

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    No sticky for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    FWIW, I requested a sticky for trail conditions in the Site Issues/Feedback forum. I looked at the moderators list, and PA doesn't appear to have a moderator and this seemed the most logical place to request it. Any input on my thoughts that the sticky be a general Trail Conditions thread to be used by all, as opposed to focusing it solely on Wiss? Seems to me it would maximise the use of the thread, and open it up to the whole PA MTB community.

    Bob
    I don't like the idea of a "trail conditions" sticky. It's too general to be useful. I also think it's kind of "Philly-centric" to have a sticky about Wiss. - after all, it's a PA forum not a Philly forum.

    If someone wants to use mtbr.com to learn about the conditions at a particular place, I think the best idea is for that person to post a "How are the conditions at XXX?" posting. That way, the subject is specific enough to be useful and there's not some thread with 500 messages (most of which will be dated quickly).

    Just my $.02
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkup
    Will Wiss be too sloppy to ride tomorrow or Sat.?

    Thanks

    The temps for this xmas weekend are supposed to be in the upper 40's to lower 50's so unless all the ice, snow & moisture is absorbed (which they wont be) and the trails can dry out (which they will not) it will mosy likely be mess I would not bother

  13. #13
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    Trail Conditions

    I plan on stopping @ Wiss tomorow (12/23) after training, i will take my bike with me & all my gear just for the slight possibility that the trails may be rideable - if not I will try to ride the fire trail at very best (probably wont even do that if its that messy) I will report back tommorow - if they are bad than this weekend will be a wash as well - plus its supposed to rain as well which should set us riders back another month

  14. #14
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    Duly noted

    Quote Originally Posted by khill
    I don't like the idea of a "trail conditions" sticky. It's too general to be useful. I also think it's kind of "Philly-centric" to have a sticky about Wiss. - after all, it's a PA forum not a Philly forum.

    If someone wants to use mtbr.com to learn about the conditions at a particular place, I think the best idea is for that person to post a "How are the conditions at XXX?" posting. That way, the subject is specific enough to be useful and there's not some thread with 500 messages (most of which will be dated quickly).

    Just my $.02
    Thanks for the input. I would agree that the sticky should not focus on Philly, and should be generic enough that anyone in PA can use it. As for it's usefulness, I respectfully disagree. At least we would have one thread that contained the info, as compared to thread after thread of "how are the conditions at xxx".

    In any case, it's not that big a deal either way. The mods can decide at this point if it makes sense or not.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by khill
    I don't like the idea of a "trail conditions" sticky. It's too general to be useful. I also think it's kind of "Philly-centric" to have a sticky about Wiss. - after all, it's a PA forum not a Philly forum.

    If someone wants to use mtbr.com to learn about the conditions at a particular place, I think the best idea is for that person to post a "How are the conditions at XXX?" posting. That way, the subject is specific enough to be useful and there's not some thread with 500 messages (most of which will be dated quickly).

    Just my $.02
    Couldn't agree more. You're exactly on target.

  16. #16
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    OK, perhaps the idea is a bad one?

    Frankly, it's not worth the debate. Didn't mean to create a mountain out of a molehill. Posting trail conditions when people ask for them works just as well.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  17. #17
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    Well, a few things to respond to, but I'll start with a trail report.

    After a hike today along the trail that heads out of rittenhouse town, the trails are still a sheet of ice and the woods are full of patchy snow. When the temps go to 40's and 50's as forecasted, the trails will be as muddy as they can possibley be. This is exactly the type of scenario for which I started this thread: nice looking weather, holiday weekend, destructive trail conditions.

    Here is my itinerary, feel free to steal it. Ride to Belmont, dip into 5 minutes of a trail that is the first to dry (wild mouse), if dry (unlikely), proceed, if wet, take a few laps around the gravel road and bike home. Otherwise, I suggest that you try hiking, road biking, or spending some time with a loved one.

    As far as the use of this thread. It does not need to be sticky if no one wants to make it so. What I do feel it needs to be is about the wissahickon. Here is why I feel the special attention is warranted,
    This park's urban setting draws more rider density than any other area that I know of. Maybe someone else has exact figures, but I'd say it is safe to say that on a sunny weekend day, we are talking at least 100 to 200 throughout the day, much more in the Summer. This is on a 16 mile loop. It's location also draws quite a few hikers and equestrians so our impact is highly visible to other trail users. This trail network is fairly vital not only to the Philadelphia bike community, but to that of Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, Camden, and Burlington Counties, as a great many of the riders come from these areas.

    Other popular areas in PA, like Thorpe, are mostly destination areas and do not have the constant density for two reasons, less overall riders, and much more trail to thin them out on. Fair Hill (mentioned) has the same benefits, but if someone would like to start a thread for it, go ahead and do it in the MD forum as that is where it is located.

    Last, and thank you if you have stuck with me this far, I don't think a post by post conditions thing would be as effective as what i have outlined here. Posting and waiting for a reply is a pain, and the easier it is to use, the more benefit it will be.

    However you spend your holiday weekend, I hope you enjoy it,
    Best,
    Matt

  18. #18
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    Replying to my own post, I know, what a geek.
    Anyway, if you are from some other part of the state, and are feeling left out, I'd encourage you to start your own post. Wouldn't it be great if the first 5 threads in the PA forum were regularly updated trail reports for the 5 most used trail systems in the state? Just a thought.

  19. #19
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    Nice post

    Not geeky at all. It's obvious you're passionate about the sport and Wiss. Nothing wrong with that at all. Keep 'em coming.

    Bob.

    BTW-Sticky request has been removed.
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    Well, a few things to respond to, but I'll start with a trail report.

    After a hike today along the trail that heads out of rittenhouse town, the trails are still a sheet of ice and the woods are full of patchy snow. When the temps go to 40's and 50's as forecasted, the trails will be as muddy as they can possibley be. This is exactly the type of scenario for which I started this thread: nice looking weather, holiday weekend, destructive trail conditions.

    Here is my itinerary, feel free to steal it. Ride to Belmont, dip into 5 minutes of a trail that is the first to dry (wild mouse), if dry (unlikely), proceed, if wet, take a few laps around the gravel road and bike home. Otherwise, I suggest that you try hiking, road biking, or spending some time with a loved one.

    As far as the use of this thread. It does not need to be sticky if no one wants to make it so. What I do feel it needs to be is about the wissahickon. Here is why I feel the special attention is warranted,
    This park's urban setting draws more rider density than any other area that I know of. Maybe someone else has exact figures, but I'd say it is safe to say that on a sunny weekend day, we are talking at least 100 to 200 throughout the day, much more in the Summer. This is on a 16 mile loop. It's location also draws quite a few hikers and equestrians so our impact is highly visible to other trail users. This trail network is fairly vital not only to the Philadelphia bike community, but to that of Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, Camden, and Burlington Counties, as a great many of the riders come from these areas.

    Other popular areas in PA, like Thorpe, are mostly destination areas and do not have the constant density for two reasons, less overall riders, and much more trail to thin them out on. Fair Hill (mentioned) has the same benefits, but if someone would like to start a thread for it, go ahead and do it in the MD forum as that is where it is located.

    Last, and thank you if you have stuck with me this far, I don't think a post by post conditions thing would be as effective as what i have outlined here. Posting and waiting for a reply is a pain, and the easier it is to use, the more benefit it will be.

    However you spend your holiday weekend, I hope you enjoy it,
    Best,
    Matt
    Trail conditions for today 12/23. I got to Wiss about 9:00am just to see what it may be like & possibly go for a short ride on the fire trail - well... the fire trail was a sheet of ice not good at all, I managed to ride it a bit (very slowly & going to either side were it was a little more clear) the ground was frozen solid. I was about to turn around & go back to the car but decided to see what one of the trail heads looked like ( had to walk it over there ) to my surprise it was clear as day! so I rode up & the trails were actually rideable a few icy patchs hear & there & ya still need to be very carefull but it was good enough to get a few miles in - there was absolutly no mud anywhere ( my bike at the end of the ride was just about as clean as when I went in ) because it was still frozen.... but like MCurtis said once the temp starts to rise & it will this weekend along with some rain it will be a disaster if people try to ride it - I guess I got lucky today with my timing - its only gonna go down to the mid 30's at night so it may be a little messy again. I can assure everyone that I and my friends are not the type of riders who ride when its wet & muddy no matter where it is & I would DEFNINITLY NOT have ridden there today if the trail conditions were remotely bad... overall it was a suprisingly decent ride

  21. #21
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    Thanks for the trail report ayce. Yay for the power of early rides on frozen ground. I pulled the same thing at Belmont. The upper area (the 3 wild mouse trails) look like they would be good at any time with the exception of a few short sections that were frozen mud/snow when I hit them, and probably just mud later in the day. The lower area (most of the park) was not ridable even in the morning.

    For the weekend, I would say that a loop that stayed on the gravel road and the wild mouse would be alright as long as the lower trails (4:20, brass monkey, rose, triumph, whitman, etc.) are avoided. especially if you are very careful with the brakes and turns (to avoid skids) and walk a few of the ups on the wild mouse. If you don't know the trails, it'd be best to wait until you can get a tour so you know where to avoid.

    I'm going away for a week. I hope everyone has a good time.

  22. #22
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    has anyone been to wissa in the last few days?

    I love the idea about having a wissa trail report. Since my buddy and I go up there as often as we can its always dissapointing to find out that the trails are completely iced over or real slushy with mud etc.
    So does anyone know what the latest conditions are like at wissa? Should we wait a few more days. My bike is whining at me to take her out for a gallop
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  23. #23
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    it must be sloppy

    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    I love the idea about having a wissa trail report. Since my buddy and I go up there as often as we can its always dissapointing to find out that the trails are completely iced over or real slushy with mud etc.
    So does anyone know what the latest conditions are like at wissa? Should we wait a few more days. My bike is whining at me to take her out for a gallop
    As Ayce intimated in his report 3 days ago, given the amount of rain we've had and the temperatures, I would guess it's sloppy. Hopefully someone will come along with accurate info.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    As Ayce intimated in his report 3 days ago, given the amount of rain we've had and the temperatures, I would guess it's sloppy. Hopefully someone will come along with accurate info.

    Hey All,

    I may head over there in a couple of hours. If I do, I'll post the conditions.

    regards,
    scoon

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    please don't bother trying till at least wednesday...

    my girlfirend was out running yeaterday and the only comment she had was "man are mountainbikers making a mess of the trails"

    apparently there were deep tire ruts everywhere.

    it happens every winter.... i have resigned myslef to not coming here and yelling at people for being irresponsible idiots this year but it really irks me when i finally hit the trails when they dry and they are completely rutted out from folk who can't/don't wait to ride.

    i rode my road bike twice this weekend, it was so boring i really wasn't enjoying it by the end of day 2 but hey it's what you have to do this time of year....

    mcurtis, i think your post is a good idea but unfortunately i don't think it will keep too many people off the trails.

    i'll let you know what is up when i head down to the trails but i am not even going to bother checking till at least tomorrow.

    and not to hijack but would you guys ever "suggest" not riding to people you see heading for the trials? this weekend on both road rides i saw knuckleheads heading into the trials at both belmont and wissy. i have never stopped to ask people not to ride as i am afraid of what will ensue but this weekend i was really tempted to pull people over and ask WTF are you even thinking????

  26. #26
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    couple thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill
    please don't bother trying till at least wednesday...
    and not to hijack but would you guys ever "suggest" not riding to people you see heading for the trials? this weekend on both road rides i saw knuckleheads heading into the trials at both belmont and wissy. i have never stopped to ask people not to ride as i am afraid of what will ensue but this weekend i was really tempted to pull people over and ask WTF are you even thinking????
    First, Max, you should be commended for your passion regarding the trails. Not many show the same level of restraint when it comes to riding the trails when they are not suitable. As for not coming in to mtbr and yelling at people regarding riding in bad conditions, I would tend to agree for a couple reasons. First, we probably see a fraction of the traffic on this board as Wiss does actual riders. Given what I have personally seen from the people who post here, you'd probably be preaching to the converted. Secondly, I think it makes much more sense for people to just post that the trails are not rideable, and please don't ride. I think we can feel pretty confident in educating people here (as well as on site at any trail) that we shouldn't ride in bad conditions, and keep updating the conditions. We can't stop people from not heeding to that advice.

    Thanks again for stepping up to the plate.

    Bob
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  27. #27
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    icky. This obviously brings up a lot of sore spots for people. I live a 5 minute bike ride from the park. It is no skin off my back to ride over and check it out. I have been going out there for well over a decade and have seen many a jackass mountain biker any time during the year.

    but the truth is that if we each do our little part, then the park will be a much better place over all.

    Oh and my thoughts were to just give a bit of a trail update as that is how this thread started.

    regards,
    scoon
    Last edited by scoon; 12-27-2005 at 02:14 PM.

  28. #28
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    These just in. If it gets colder the next couple of nites, Friday COULD be an ok day to check out.

    By the way, I didn't not ride this section. Just rode up to it. These cuts were already there for these pix.

    regards,
    scoon
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    Last edited by scoon; 12-27-2005 at 02:22 PM.

  29. #29
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    Good job! thanks for the update scoon

    believe it or not but I've been waiting for scoon to get back to us about the trail report and from the great pics he posted it looks like we have to wait. Im happy to do so if it means I get a better ride on friday or even saturday.
    Max-a-mill's question as to whether he should say something or should I say "we" all should say something to people who insist on riding and subsequently trashing the trails.
    Maybe we need to travel in larger groups, not to come across too intimidating but this would give us better ground to stand on. We dont need to be nasty about it and Im sure max-a-mill would not do so or intend to but this is a re-occuring issue. How do we stop these guys? It may very well come to a confrontation one day soon with someone trying to do the right thing and plead with people to slow down the use of the trails during bad periods of weather.
    My buddy and I rode out to belmont last week and it seemed pretty good despite of the bad weather. I feel that belmont seems to recover better during the wettest times of the year. I will admit there were some muddy patches and we tried to steer clear of them. I may check out belmont tomorrow and get back to you guys.
    Let me know if anyone here has any idea as to how we can remedy/slow down the use of wissa. I would be glad to help out in anyway possible. If it means a trip out to wissa and trying to have a friendly chat with people- Im in. Lets get together as group and maybe we can make a change. Who knows, it may catch on
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    believe it or not but I've been waiting for scoon to get back to us about the trail report and from the great pics he posted it looks like we have to wait. Im happy to do so if it means I get a better ride on friday or even saturday.
    Max-a-mill's question as to whether he should say something or should I say "we" all should say something to people who insist on riding and subsequently trashing the trails.
    Maybe we need to travel in larger groups, not to come across too intimidating but this would give us better ground to stand on. We dont need to be nasty about it and Im sure max-a-mill would not do so or intend to but this is a re-occuring issue. How do we stop these guys? It may very well come to a confrontation one day soon with someone trying to do the right thing and plead with people to slow down the use of the trails during bad periods of weather.
    My buddy and I rode out to belmont last week and it seemed pretty good despite of the bad weather. I feel that belmont seems to recover better during the wettest times of the year. I will admit there were some muddy patches and we tried to steer clear of them. I may check out belmont tomorrow and get back to you guys.
    Let me know if anyone here has any idea as to how we can remedy/slow down the use of wissa. I would be glad to help out in anyway possible. If it means a trip out to wissa and trying to have a friendly chat with people- Im in. Lets get together as group and maybe we can make a change. Who knows, it may catch on


    Ah. An even keel response. Really the best thing todo would be to give people we see this url so they can read different people's sentiments.

    The thing about the park is that because of the creek, the water table is HIGHER in the wiss than in belmont. As a result, the ground is just naturally more soggy. It has been like this for as long as I have been riding there. In the middle of july during a drout I could find anyone here 12" of mud up in the trails.

    Everyone does need to use the trail responsibly but no one has the right to be a "trail nazi". That being said, prolly the best thing to do is to give other riders this url and let them read first hand what people are thinking about usage in the park.

    Thank you electric_mustard for your thoughtful response regarding winter riding in the park.

    regards,
    scoon

  31. #31
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    This issue comes up every year, and every year, nothing gets done. Why not organize and actually create a 'trail steward' group for mtb'ers in the Philly area? I know (first hand) that organizing mtbers is like herding cats, but at least have a go.....

  32. #32
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    I took a quick ride in the wiss on Saturday Christmas eve on the east side of the creek near Gypsy lane and it was fine.

    I usually like to give the trails 2 full days of dring out after a good rain. So since it rained really good on Sunday Christmas day I figured I'd check it out tom.

    Weatherchannel.com says it is gonna rain again on Thursday so all of you that are waiting for friday might be better off going tom (Wed)

  33. #33
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    Hey All,

    Rode out in the wiss today. I go in @ Hermit Lane and ride the yellow trails. There was only one section that was so wet that I dismounted (100ft). Other than that, all was the way it is normally. Ground wasn't to wet or soft and I enjoyed a nice ride.

    regards,
    scoon

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    I am back from out of town, and checking on the thread. I have to say, while everyone here seems well intentioned, it looks like there may be different takes on what counts as non-damaging conditions. When my plane landed yesterday at two p.m., it was pouring. I havn't been into the park today, but I find it hard to beleive that the conditions are good to ride as per the last post, sorry. It is above freezing, and my yard, a few hundred yards from the trail head, is soaked. Weather.com has rain coming tomorrow for area code 19118, i.e. the park. This is followed by 40 degree temps and precip every other day until next weekend. Nobody should be riding trails around here for the forseeable future.

    Two days after rain is good in some cases, but is not a hard fast guideline. Two long summer days of perfect sun with breezes after a light rain, probably. Two short winter cloudy days after a long soaker, forget it. In this case, we havnt even had two dry days, so I only mention this for future reference. Freezing/thawing only complicates this as it can prolong drying greatly. In some cases where a rain brings in a cold front that freezes the ground solid, a ride can be had the day after the rain. This last scenario is a bit of a rarity, so I wouldn't count on it unless you are comfortable bailing on a ride when you show up just to see that the ground hasn't frozen completely.

    Max, almost confronting a few folks in a very pissed off mood is what prompted me to start this thread. If you're feeling tough, yeah, maybe its whats needed. Oh, and I think we know each other. We both ride yellow bikes, right?

    Anyway, I rode around visiting friends today, marveled at how riding in a pack helps tame south philly side street traffic, watched the mummers while seated on my bike, and generally had fun without tearing up soft dirt. Back to work tomorrow.

    Best,
    Matt

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    I am back from out of town, and checking on the thread. I have to say, while everyone here seems well intentioned, it looks like there may be different takes on what counts as non-damaging conditions. When my plane landed yesterday at two p.m., it was pouring. I havn't been into the park today, but I find it hard to beleive that the conditions are good to ride as per the last post, sorry. It is above freezing, and my yard, a few hundred yards from the trail head, is soaked. Weather.com has rain coming tomorrow for area code 19118, i.e. the park. This is followed by 40 degree temps and precip every other day until next weekend. Nobody should be riding trails around here for the forseeable future.

    Two days after rain is good in some cases, but is not a hard fast guideline. Two long summer days of perfect sun with breezes after a light rain, probably. Two short winter cloudy days after a long soaker, forget it. In this case, we havnt even had two dry days, so I only mention this for future reference. Freezing/thawing only complicates this as it can prolong drying greatly. In some cases where a rain brings in a cold front that freezes the ground solid, a ride can be had the day after the rain. This last scenario is a bit of a rarity, so I wouldn't count on it unless you are comfortable bailing on a ride when you show up just to see that the ground hasn't frozen completely.

    Max, almost confronting a few folks in a very pissed off mood is what prompted me to start this thread. If you're feeling tough, yeah, maybe its whats needed. Oh, and I think we know each other. We both ride yellow bikes, right?

    Anyway, I rode around visiting friends today, marveled at how riding in a pack helps tame south philly side street traffic, watched the mummers while seated on my bike, and generally had fun without tearing up soft dirt. Back to work tomorrow.

    Best,
    Matt
    Hey there,

    Somewhere along the way this post changed from a ride condition report to a "get up on my soapbox and let me tell everyone how to ride". It is a shame as this was a good idea to have for a topic.

    Also, I have been riding in the park for almost 15 years, I am quite certain that I can tell trail conditions.

    regards,
    scoon

  36. #36
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    Take a deep breath, folks

    The trail reports have been fantastic, and for those who have contributed, I would hate to see you lose interest in continuing them. I think we have to trust the judgement of the people posting, and not second guess what they are finding. Frankly, given the weather conditions, I was surprised at what was reported. I wasn't out there to check and see myself, so I can only rely on what others are saying. If by chance someone finds conditions to be other than what someone posted, then speak up. If not, I don't know that anyone has the right to second guess what someone who was actually out on the trails reports.

    Just my thoughts, and I hope people who read this understand the spirit in which I offer them. My intention is not to fan the flames.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  37. #37
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    Hope everyone had a happy new years celebration

    I know not everyone has a camera but if anyone is in doubt posting a couple of pics should straighten the whole thing out
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

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    may be a seperate site for our area

    I've been running a web server from my house for about 3 years ( i get zero traffic) and i believe that this format is well suited for trail news. and posting rides or even starting a club. but for now i believe it would be great for this topic and let it expand to what ever. here is a link http://savages.webhop.org (the name can change or i could just creat a new one)look it over and who ever wants can be the lead for posting news. there is a forum availble aswell and a gallery.

    http://savages.webhop.org

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    I've been running a web server from my house for about 3 years ( i get zero traffic) and i believe that this format is well suited for trail news. and posting rides or even starting a club. but for now i believe it would be great for this topic and let it expand to what ever. here is a link http://savages.webhop.org (the name can change or i could just creat a new one)look it over and who ever wants can be the lead for posting news. there is a forum availble aswell and a gallery.

    http://savages.webhop.org
    Hey there,

    Looks like a fun hobby. But, where are all the linux links ?

    regards,
    scoon

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    I'm sorry to say Scoon, but riding trails the day after a heavy rain is the wrong thing to do. Posting it as a ride report, at the very least, implicitly encourages others to do the same. This makes it even more wrong. You are obviously flustered by having to hear it, but I hope you take it to heart and leave the attitude aside.

    This is more or less an ongoing theme in this thread. Will people do the right thing if they are informed? I was assuming that folks either didn't care, or they were not informed. I guess I hadn't considered that some folks create their own truths to make their wrong actions seem right.

    Anyway, it's raining heavily right now, so theres the trail report for tomorrow, Tuesday.

    Best,
    Matt

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    I'm sorry to say Scoon, but riding trails the day after a heavy rain is the wrong thing to do. Posting it as a ride report, at the very least, implicitly encourages others to do the same. This makes it even more wrong. You are obviously flustered by having to hear it, but I hope you take it to heart and leave the attitude aside.

    This is more or less an ongoing theme in this thread. Will people do the right thing if they are informed? I was assuming that folks either didn't care, or they were not informed. I guess I hadn't considered that some folks create their own truths to make their wrong actions seem right.

    Anyway, it's raining heavily right now, so theres the trail report for tomorrow, Tuesday.

    Best,
    Matt

    I just can't believe the accusations here. It really is a shame.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the wasn't this thread about a trail conditions report in the wiss ?

    Why are you implying that I am a liar ? Day after what heavy rain ? Yesterday (1/2/05) was the only heavy rain here.

    This is really silly now and I have nothing more to add to this.

    scoon

  42. #42
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    This thread has certainly taken a turn away from it's originally stated purpose and toward the ridiculous, IMO.

    Rain happens. Likewise, erosion. Don't attempt to crucify those who occasionally venture out into a wet Wissahickon - there's little to gain by doing so.

    Even if another fat tire never rolled through the valley, the trails would continue to erode at nearly the same rate. The answer (for those concerned about aesthetics) lies in maintenance and common sense (don't skid, don't skirt puddles - ride through 'em, don't try to climb sections that are visibly soft or already marred by tracks, etc etc), not abstenance.

    For some, life (not last week's weather) dictates riding opportunities.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  43. #43
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    Very well put

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    This thread has certainly taken a turn away from it's originally stated purpose and toward the ridiculous, IMO.

    Rain happens. Likewise, erosion. Don't attempt to crucify those who occasionally venture out into a wet Wissahickon - there's little to gain by doing so.

    Even if another fat tire never rolled through the valley, the trails would continue to erode at nearly the same rate. The answer (for those concerned about aesthetics) lies in maintenance and common sense (don't skid, don't skirt puddles - ride through 'em, don't try to climb sections that are visibly soft or already marred by tracks, etc etc), not abstenance.

    For some, life (not last week's weather) dictates riding opportunities.
    Thanks for putting into words what I was thinking, but having a tough time expressing.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  44. #44
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    my turn :)

    If I were to wait for perfect riding conditions i would never ride!

  45. #45
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    this is totally unfair for everyone

    well guys we have managed to do it again. What you say? well just check out this thread, it went from being very useful to another brick in the wall. Meaning=useless. Ofcourse, some laughed and some were pi$%ed off, you will all agree.
    One thing we can agree on is that we are all passionate about our park and our bikes yet it somehow goes astray on these threads with some getting their jollies out of insults and others out of just reading and providing no input. How about those people who are passionate, about riding and our park. You guys are without any doubt:

    mcurtious,scoon, call_me_clyde, stick, stymie, bigkeith, Philly_BikeGuy,
    dan killing, max-a-mill, ayce, verewolf, khill, linkup and myself electric mustard to name a few. Why dont we meet and for the first time vent infront of each other, ride and check out the devastation, maybe educate others on the way etc etc instead of sitting here on the net preaching from far away, from one another.
    I am happy to ride out to wissa from center city and just check it out, hey man I have a camera, I can take pics and post them too! I would love to meet all you guys, maybe I can teach you something and maybe you will teach me something more! More action and less words I think- How about it guys are you really IN?

    cheers

    electric mustard
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  46. #46
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    Agreed

    What Matt originally proposed and what was received as a great idea has become counter productive. I think it's a great idea for us to get together and share our passion for MTB riding and for Wiss. While my schedule is somewhat restrictive, I'd be available on Saturday morning, January 14th. I'm also typically available Monday and Wednesday eves, but if we're going to meet somewhere at Wiss, I think doing so during daylight hours make sense.

    Given the restrictions I have, don't let my schedule and preferences dictate whatever works for the rest if others want to take you up on the offer. If another day and time are agreed on by the majority, I'll do my best to be there.

    I'm IN!

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    How about it guys are you really IN?

    cheers

    electric mustard
    Life-long aversion to all things 'IN-crowd' aside, I'd be happy to meet up and take a spin through the park.

    The morning of Jan 14 works for me...unless it's raining.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  48. #48
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    Hey All,

    I think these pissing contests are why I end up riding alone or with my wife.

    I am willing to meet up with others for a ride but I won't stick long if the preaching starts. 1/14 sounds fine for me.

    Sorry All but this "hide behind the internet" thingy always creeps up in online social circles.

    regards,
    scoon

  49. #49
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    Decent folks

    Quote Originally Posted by scoon
    Hey All,

    I think these pissing contests are why I end up riding alone or with my wife.

    I am willing to meet up with others for a ride but I won't stick long if the preaching starts. 1/14 sounds fine for me.

    Sorry All but this "hide behind the internet" thingy always creeps up in online social circles.

    regards,
    scoon
    I hear what you're saying, and my guess is that all the people who have posted on this issue are pretty decent folks. Just remember that it's difficult to determine the tone of what someone is saying in the written word. The fact that we're putting this ride together should say something. Bottom line is that I think getting a group of people together for a ride is an excellent way to get to know each other. I've ridden with Keith (who I'm hoping shows up) and a couple others I've met from this board and have yet to come across someone I wouldn't ride with again.

    As for how they feel about me.........

    I hope we have suitable weather for the ride and I look forward to meeting those who show up.

    Bob

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  50. #50
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    I'll try to make it Jan. 14th. It'll be nice to ride with a group there.

    I've done trail maintenance at the Wiss with JAR and by myself if I come across a situation while riding. Its rewarding to see people actually care about the conditions of the trails before riding. Your always going to come across people who don't care, or worst don't know about how destructive riding trails at the wrong time can be.

  51. #51
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    scoon, sorry you feel this ghas turned into a pissing contest, do what you feel i guess... but i agree with mccurtis i know for a fact that the stuff by my house (up near bells mill on the roxborough side) is/was/willbe a mess when you said it was OK to ride. my GF runs down there daily and keeps telling me how deep the ruts are from us bikers.... it hasn't been dry enough to ride since before christmas so i ain't even been down to check it out myself.

    mccurtis, yeah we DO know each other (your yellow bike is nicer than mine but i got the bigger wheels ).

    this weekend sounds like it will finally be below freezing overnight giving us some prime early riding anywhere we want it (including wissy). just please do everyone a favor go to bed early and get out nice and early and ride before it thaws. once it thaws, get the F*CK out...

    or go out and explore belmont. it is nice and holds up much better than wiss.

  52. #52
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    well i must admit i havent ridden since i'v taken my new job in october and it shows, so i cant really comment on riding the trails when its nasty or has been. but has anyone concidered my suggestion on reporting the trail conditions via another site? i believe that my site is able to provide people with what they were looking for if properly used.

    Q. what were we looking for?
    A. a sticky for posting trail conditions at the wiss

    my site can allow users to post news and other stuff buy rank or by approval. this will allow one or more persons who can provide an account of the trails to do so and others can read it take heed or not. along with other functions that are available threw that content management suite.

    i'm willing to set that up and give posting rights to who ever is in the best position to report on the trails and like i said readers can take the advice or not. here is the site again, take some time and look it over http://savages.webhop.org

    as far as a ride on the 14th i'm in!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoon
    Hey there,

    Looks like a fun hobby. But, where are all the linux links ?

    regards,
    scoon
    just never got around to doing that. but if you wanna show me how or do them thats fine by me

  54. #54
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    Outta shape?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    well i must admit i havent ridden since i'v taken my new job in october and it shows
    And here I thought it was you that was going to get me on a regimen! Looks like we're both back to square 1. Look forward to seeing you on the 14th. My new front triangle is on the way, so I may swap it out before then.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill
    scoon, sorry you feel this ghas turned into a pissing contest, do what you feel i guess... but i agree with mccurtis i know for a fact that the stuff by my house (up near bells mill on the roxborough side) is/was/willbe a mess when you said it was OK to ride. my GF runs down there daily and keeps telling me how deep the ruts are from us bikers.... it hasn't been dry enough to ride since before christmas so i ain't even been down to check it out myself.
    I gave directions and showed pix where I rode.

    I didn't go on the roxborough side and didn't comment on that side of the park.

    scoon

  56. #56
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    When I started this thread, it was in direct reaction to folks riding in wet conditions. When it veered toward endorsing riding in destructive conditions, it got off track. I think I misjudged the priorities of the user group here. My priorities are with the preservation of the trails that I ride, even if this trumps my desire to go for a ride whenever I like. I suggest this be the last post on this thread and we let it die. Speaking for myself, I won't be checking back.

    As for seeing you on the trail, if the ground is frozen on Saturday morning, I'll be the guy on the yellow bike, small wheel version.

    Cheers,
    Matt

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    When I started this thread, it was in direct reaction to folks riding in wet conditions. When it veered toward endorsing riding in destructive conditions, it got off track. I think I misjudged the priorities of the user group here. My priorities are with the preservation of the trails that I ride, even if this trumps my desire to go for a ride whenever I like. I suggest this be the last post on this thread and we let it die. Speaking for myself, I won't be checking back.

    As for seeing you on the trail, if the ground is frozen on Saturday morning, I'll be the guy on the yellow bike, small wheel version.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    "Here is my itinerary, feel free to steal it. Ride to Belmont, dip into 5 minutes of a trail that is the first to dry (wild mouse), if dry (unlikely), proceed, if wet, take a few laps around the gravel road and bike home. Otherwise, I suggest that you try hiking, road biking, or spending some time with a loved one."

    scoon
    "Rode out in the wiss today. I go in @ Hermit Lane and ride the yellow trails. There was only one section that was so wet that I dismounted (100ft). Other than that, all was the way it is normally. Ground wasn't to wet or soft and I enjoyed a nice ride."


    I believe that scoon did the same exact thing you did. He walked around area's that were unridable and reported on the rest (with pictures). You should seriously think about what you've been posting to him.

  58. #58
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    Again, I disagree, Matt

    Quote Originally Posted by mcurtius
    When I started this thread, it was in direct reaction to folks riding in wet conditions. When it veered toward endorsing riding in destructive conditions, it got off track. I think I misjudged the priorities of the user group here. My priorities are with the preservation of the trails that I ride, even if this trumps my desire to go for a ride whenever I like. I suggest this be the last post on this thread and we let it die. Speaking for myself, I won't be checking back.

    As for seeing you on the trail, if the ground is frozen on Saturday morning, I'll be the guy on the yellow bike, small wheel version.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    I personally see things a bit diffeently. When you started this thread it was with great intentions, that I agree. It went on from your original concerns of people riding in wet conditions to people checking the trail conditions and reporting back what they saw. I happen to feel this was a great service to the Wiss riding community and something that people did of free will, and in response to your very concerns, Matt. It then drifted into you and others second guessing the validity of the reporting of people who were actually out there on the trails, and coming back with generalizations about the weather conditions and how the trails could not possibly be ridable because their own backyard was soaked. I was as surprised as you were that the reports came back as the trails being ridable, but if we're going to doubt the validity of the reporting, then why the hell have anyone report their findings?

    I also happen to feel that you're dead wrong about your assumptions of our collective priorities. Nobody here....not one poster... has advocated riding in destructive conditions. There is indeed a difference between "wet" conditions and "destructive" conditions, IMO. I'm more than willing to be proved wrong in my position on this. One poster mentioned that if they had to wait until conditions were perfect, they'd never ride. That hardly constitutes advocating riding in destructive conditions.

    If you choose to take your ball and glove and go home, that's your prerogative. I do hope that we see the guy on the yellow bike with the small wheels on the morning of the 24th. Perhaps getting out of this online paradigm and into a real world scenario will confirm my suspicions that we all have a hell of a lot more in common than what is coming across in these posts in the form of an online pissing contest, a contest nobody wins.

    Like I said, I'll be there the 14th, conditions permitting. I truly hope to see you there.

    Respectfully,

    Bob
    Last edited by Call_me_Clyde; 01-05-2006 at 07:44 AM.
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  59. #59
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    Exactly. Well, almost...

    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Like I said, I'll be there the 24th, conditions permitting. I truly hope to see you there.

    Respectfully,

    Bob
    I thought it was the 14th?
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  60. #60
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    Yes, the 14th

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Exactly. Well, almost...



    I thought it was the 14th?
    Read my tag line, that should put things in perspective.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  61. #61
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    I thought there was

    Quote Originally Posted by dankilling
    This issue comes up every year, and every year, nothing gets done. Why not organize and actually create a 'trail steward' group for mtb'ers in the Philly area? I know (first hand) that organizing mtbers is like herding cats, but at least have a go.....
    Isn't that supposed to be JAR and the DVMBP?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoon
    Hey there,

    Somewhere along the way this post changed from a ride condition report to a "get up on my soapbox and let me tell everyone how to ride". It is a shame as this was a good idea to have for a topic.

    Also, I have been riding in the park for almost 15 years, I am quite certain that I can tell trail conditions.

    regards,
    scoon
    I think that he gives very sound advise, especially for out of towners wondering if the trails are in shape. I dont see the rub.

    I also know people who have been riding in the wiss for 15 years and dont hesitate to ride when the trails are a mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid Dynamics
    I also know people who have been riding in the wiss for 15 years and dont hesitate to ride when the trails are a mess.
    And have you ever asked them why?

    I know this thread is getting to big to read from the beginning but I did say how I found a wet spot that I did not ride.

    scoon

  64. #64
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    Matt's clearly an advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid Dynamics
    I think that he gives very sound advise, especially for out of towners wondering if the trails are in shape. I dont see the rub.

    I also know people who have been riding in the wiss for 15 years and dont hesitate to ride when the trails are a mess.
    I agree in the sense that Matt is clearly an advocate of not riding when the trails can be damaged. I have no doubt in my mind that if Matt rides out to the trailhead and checks out the trails himself, that he can report back to anyone, local or otherwise, on the conditions of the trail. This is a great service to the community as I've stated before, and in the spirit of Matt's original post, what I believe we are trying to accomplish in this thread. Speaking for myself, personally, I took issue with Matt and others who thought their armchair assesments of the conditions were more valid than someone who actually went out and rode the trails and reported back. I said myself that I found it hard to believe they were ridable. I also feel that unless I have gone out and ridden the trails based on someone's report and found conditions to be in direct conflict with the report, I don't have a leg to stand on in contesting that person's assessment. If one of the people reporting is one of those riders who doesn't hesitate to ride when conditions are bad, we'll find out soon enough. In that one of the people reporting back on Wiss conditions had initiated a post regarding who in the area was responsible for trail maintenance (as I believe they wanted to get involved in Wiss maintenance) I would give this person the benefit of the doubt that they would not recommend that the trails were rideable if they weren't. I could be dead wrong, but again, we'll find out soon enough.

    Again, the issue in my opinion has never been about questioning Matt's advice regarding whether or not someone should ride in conditions that would damage the trails. Matt's clearly an advocate for the preservation of the trails, particularly at Wiss. I'll state again that I look forward to meeting him next Saturday, and truly hope we can all get together and have an enjoyable ride. Hopefully we can sit down afterwards and discuss the best ways that we can focus our collective efforts on trail preservation, maintenance and conditions reporting.

    My apologies for droning on here, I know this is getting old. Perhaps we can turn this thread around and post our thoughts about where to meet, what time, what trails etc. I'll throw out a suggestion and say 9 AM at the benches in front of the snack shop beside Valley Green Inn. Other suggestions are welcomed.

    Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde

    I'll throw out a suggestion and say 9 AM at the benches in front of the snack shop beside Valley Green Inn. Other suggestions are welcomed.

    Bob
    Fine by me.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    Hey any guys goin out this weekend - maybe Sunday the 8th? a freind & i were thinking about trying it out - the rain stopped a few days ago & the next few nights will be well below freezing - hoping that it drained, dried enough & that the ground will be frozen enough - we will probably park & start from the lincoln drive side near rittenhouse road - i am questioning it but i figure if its a no go - its 10 minutes to get home...wildcard weekend!!!! so thats a plus - i figure we will be there about 12:00-12:30

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    Weather report

    I'm looking at the 5 day forecast, and it includes a bit of rain as well as temps in the 50's. On the surface, this would appear to be a recipe for less than desireable conditions for the group ride Saturday. Could be that we get there and the trails are fine, as was apparently the case in previous trail reports. Perhaps a contingency plan is in order? I'm hoping that we can at least get together and assess the trail conditions, but we should probably touch base later in the week to get a concensus on how we should handle contingencies. Nothing worse than being the only person to show up at one of these things, ya know...

    Just tossing out ideas, I know, I know...it's only Monday.

    Bob
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  68. #68
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    wissa seemed like in great condition yesterday

    hi guys,

    I took a quick ride out to wissa yesterday around noonish. I saw plenty of riders and all of them did not have much if any mud on them (good sign). I rode the orange trail and it looked very tidy. In fact there was really not that much sloppy stuff around. I was very delighted to see also that there wasnt too much "bad activity" in places where the ground was soft.
    So in reply for saturdays ride, if it doesnt rain too much this week and we ride the indian side then we should be OK for both having an enjoyable ride and also not damaging our trails.
    I only rode some of the indian side and a tiny bit if the valley green in side. If Anyone else has some more info to shed on the rest of the trails then please post so when can decide to go ahead for this sat.
    Like I said, I am very coinfident for the trails I rode on yesterday that if it doesnt rain too hard this week then sat should be OK.

    cheers and I look forward to meeting you all

    electric mustard
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    Encouraging report

    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    hi guys,

    I took a quick ride out to wissa yesterday around noonish. I saw plenty of riders and all of them did not have much if any mud on them (good sign). I rode the orange trail and it looked very tidy. In fact there was really not that much sloppy stuff around. I was very delighted to see also that there wasnt too much "bad activity" in places where the ground was soft.

    cheers and I look forward to meeting you all

    electric mustard
    Thanks for the update, em. Let's hope for the best this week.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    i rode wissy saturday early (while it was still frozen for the most part). mainly the roxborough side but i did come back up the otherside from the bottom up to valley green.

    trails were in surprisingly good shape! that place really does stand up to abuse well (or i guess we'd all have stopped riding there long ago). i'd say your good to go unitl another rain softens things up again.

    don't get me wrong the usual mud spots and slick spots are definitely there but 80+% of the ride was nice dry singletrack.

    so take er easy out there, don't spin your tires in the mud, and have fun.

    and mccurtis - yeah we know each other! mines the yellow big-wheel (you rolled into me and my main riding buddy, the guy on the klein mantra the other week). we should meet up for a ride some time! PM me with your contact info if your game. i am ready to ride at least one day each weekend, and i know a decent small crew of riders/singlespeeders but am always lookin for more excuses to get out the door!

  71. #71
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    Saturday 1/14 Wiss ride logistics

    Just to tighten up logistics here, since nobody has piped up with other suggestions on when and where to meet, let's call it 9 AM at the benches by the snack bar next to Valley Green Inn. I'll be the clyde with the yellow jersey and the Leader full suspension rig.

    I'll be happy to PM anyone planning on attending with my cell phone number in case we have weather/trail condition issues, or if someone's running late. Just send me a PM with your cell number, I'll respond in kind.

    If possible, let's get a head count on who plans to attend so the group knows how many are coming. Wouldn't want to start the ride if we don't have everyone present. With that said, if you don't call and you're later than 9:30, you're probably on your own.

    Look forward to meeting everyone on Saturday.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  72. #72
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    Im in

    call me clyde, count me in Should be a real hoot.
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  73. #73
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    I'm looking forward to it

    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    call me clyde, count me in Should be a real hoot.
    Just hoping we have a tolerant crowd. I haven't been out on the bike since October, so I'm gonna be sucking wind big time. Come to think of it, why should this be any different than any other ride I've been on?

    Look forward to meeting you Saturday morning.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  74. #74
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    This might be worthy of a new thread, That beng said I would be interested also, i have never been to the Wiss and am probably going to need a little more detailed directions.

  75. #75
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    Directions from where?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro K
    This might be worthy of a new thread, That beng said I would be interested also, i have never been to the Wiss and am probably going to need a little more detailed directions.
    I would agree we could start a new thread regarding the group ride, but if you look at what has transpired over the course of this thread, I think this is where many people will be looking for info.

    With that said, please let us know where you are coming from so that somebody can get you the right directions. There are several ways to get to many different parts of Wiss, unfortunately, I only know one way. It just happens to drop me off by a parking lot close to where we plan to meet. I'll be happy to share my route if it makes sense based on where you are coming from.

    Bob
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    I would agree we could start a new thread regarding the group ride, but if you look at what has transpired over the course of this thread, I think this is where many people will be looking for info.

    With that said, please let us know where you are coming from so that somebody can get you the right directions. There are several ways to get to many different parts of Wiss, unfortunately, I only know one way. It just happens to drop me off by a parking lot close to where we plan to meet. I'll be happy to share my route if it makes sense based on where you are coming from.

    Bob
    I would be coming Down form Lansdale, I assume 476 to 76?

    Thanks

  77. #77
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    Better yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro K
    I would be coming Down form Lansdale, I assume 476 to 76?

    Thanks

    476 South to the turnpike westbound. STAY RIGHT as you enter the turnpike westbound and IMMEDIATELY EXIT at Norristown exit. From toll booth, stay right and take Germantown Pike eastbound and continue to follow for about 5 miles. You're basically looking for the town of Chestnut Hill and Chestnut Hill College specifically as landmarks. A short distance past Chestnut Hill College you'll come to a traffic light at Bells Mill Rd. Turn right on Bells Mill and less than 1/4 mile you will come to a small bridge. BEFORE THE BRIDGE, on the right side is a gravel parking lot. Park there, and get on the bike. Turn right out of the parking lot and cross the bridge. Make an immediate left onto the gravel path (Forbidden Drive?) and follow. You will pass a covered bridge on your left and some other landmarks, but keep riding until you see Valley Green Inn on your right. We'll be on the benches next to the Inn.

    PM me if you need more info and we can discuss by phone.

    If I've missed something here, would someone please chime in???

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro K
    I would be coming Down form Lansdale, I assume 476 to 76?

    Thanks
    Yeah, either 476 to 76 to Ridge (a la directions here http://www.valleygreeninn.com)

    or 309 S to Springfield exit (Papermill Rd). When you hit Papermill, bear right. Stay on Papermill Rd until you come to a traffic light at (old) Bethlehem Pike/Stenton Ave.

    Turn left at the light, then immediately bear right at the Y in the road (you should see a sign welcoming you to Chestnut Hill here). Follow this road (Bethlehem Pike) until you hit the traffic light at Germantown Ave (cobblestone road). Make a left on Germantown, then head down the hill until you get to Springfield Ave (there's a blue sign for Valley Green just before). Turn right on Springfield. Proceed straight through a handful of 4-way stops. After you pass Chestnut Hill Academy (on your right), the road splits. Bear right at the Y onto Valley Green Rd. Park in the Valley Green Rd Lot on the right. This is where I usually park. From the lot, follow the road downhill and across the creek. This will dump you into the Inn parking lot (reserved for Inn patrons and handicapped parking only - that's why you should park farther up on the hill)
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  79. #79
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    Isn't it supposed to rain Fri night into Saturday? Try not to F*** up the trails.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    Isn't it supposed to rain Fri night into Saturday? Try not to F*** up the trails.

    Ahhhhhh....lovely
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  81. #81
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    Try reading the whole thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    Isn't it supposed to rain Fri night into Saturday? Try not to F*** up the trails.
    You'll see that it's the primary reason we're getting together, just to shred Wiss to pieces.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    You'll see that it's the primary reason we're getting together, just to shred Wiss to pieces.

    Bob

    Let's see it's supposed to rain Fiday into Saturday, group ride Sat morning sounds real good for the trails.

  83. #83
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    he's being sarcastic

    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    What's lovely about it??
    As was I in my last post. Please take the time to read the thread from beginning to end. This group is very cognizant of trail conditions, it's why we want to get together. You'll see that I myself and others have filed caveats about the rain, trail conditions for Saturday, etc.

    Once you've read through, I think you'll understand. Please feel free to join us if you wish, weather and trail conditions permitting.

    Redundantly,

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    Ahhhhhh....lovely

    What's lovely about it??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    You'll see that it's the primary reason we're getting together, just to shred Wiss to pieces.

    Bob
    Yep, tear that mother up good once and for all! Once it's all eff'd up, nice and sloppy-like, there'll be no more reasons for anyone to care about 'condition reports'.

    Just one big, perpetually-sloppy-arsed mudpie.

    I can hardly wait.




    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Yep, tear that mother up good once and for all! Once it's all eff'd up, nice and sloppy-like, there'll be no more reasons for anyone to care about 'condition reports'.

    Just one big, perpetually-sloppy-arsed mudpie.

    I can hardly wait.




    You guys will probably be doing more walking than riding so I'm sure the trails will be fine.

  87. #87
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    Take a deep breath, dude

    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    Let's see it's supposed to rain Fiday into Saturday, group ride Sat morning sounds real good for the trails.
    First, take your foot outta your mouth so you can breathe.

    Read the whole thread.
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  88. #88
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    No good

    If you have nothing nice to say nor nothing intellectually to add to this or any other thread dont do so.
    Yes you should read the thread, if not, then join us on sat morning to find out that we dont ride on muddy trails. It will be a great meet and great opportunity.
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Yeah, you're right. I can't ride at all. Will you please teach me how it's done?
    No problem, I'm sure we could set up some lessons, no charge. I'm always willing to help out.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    You guys will probably be doing more walking than riding so I'm sure the trails will be fine.
    Yeah, you're right. I can't ride at all. Will you please teach me how it's done?
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    No problem, I'm sure we could set up some lessons, no charge. I'm always willing to help out.
    Awesome, I'm particularly interested in learning how to ride with my head up my ass. I've been trying, but my back gets sore and the base of my neck always gets chafed from rubbing against the seat.

    How do you do it?
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  92. #92
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    Wissy.

    I'm in and looking forward to it. Havn't been down there for a little while. Be nice to be back on the ol' stoppin' grounds.

    If possible, let's get a head count on who plans to attend so the group knows how many are coming. Wouldn't want to start the ride if we don't have everyone present. With that said, if you don't call and you're later than 9:30, you're probably on your own.

    Look forward to meeting everyone on Saturday.

    Bob[/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Awesome, I'm particularly interested in learning how to ride with my head up my ass. I've been trying, but my back gets sore and the base of my neck always gets chafed from rubbing against the seat.

    How do you do it?

    Man you are really funny. Honestly, how did you come up with something so witty? You should serioulsy consider stand up comedy as a career.

  94. #94
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    enough is enough

    ssc28, you started it and you should leave it alone. Why dont you instead join us on sat. Even if we cant ride wissa, maybe we could ride to belmont and have fun there (its not that far). Its ALWAYS drier there. How about it. Your comments are just frustrating the cause.
    Come out and ride with us and not against us
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    ssc28, you started it and you should leave it alone. Why dont you instead join us on sat. Even if we cant ride wissa, maybe we could ride to belmont and have fun there (its not that far). Its ALWAYS drier there. How about it. Your comments are just frustrating the cause.
    Come out and ride with us and not against us
    I didn't really start anything, there's been some concern over the trails getting trashed, and planning a group ride when it's supposed to rain friday into Saturday might not be the brightest thing. I said, don't F*** up the trails. Since then I've gotten bunch of crap. Am I wrong?

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    Man you are really funny. Honestly, how did you come up with something so witty? You should serioulsy consider stand up comedy as a career.
    Only as funny as your comment about us "doing more walking than riding". If you think we're all a bunch of poseurs then, by all means, c'mon out and ride. I'm not the chest-thumpin', pissing match, "better than you" type (far from it, actually), and I may not be the fastest guy in the park - but I can ride, and I'd love to see if you "walk the walk" as well as you insult people you've never met.

    Like everyone else has already pointed out to you half a dozen times, the group ride idea for the 14th was first kicked around last week - long before anyone had any idea that it was supposed to rain friday & saturday. *If* you had taken the time to read some of the earlier posts before giving Bob **** for "organizing" things, you would have seen the comments about the ride being weather-dependent.

    In that case, you might have had an easier time seeing sarcasm for what it was.

    Nobody here is out to wreck "your" trails, so just relax a bit.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    Concern over the trails

    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    I didn't really start anything, there's been some concern over the trails getting trashed, and planning a group ride when it's supposed to rain friday into Saturday might not be the brightest thing. I said, don't F*** up the trails. Since then I've gotten bunch of crap. Am I wrong?
    Again, if you'd just go back and read the whole thread, you'd realize a few things:

    1) Everyone is concerned about damaging the trails by riding them when conditions are bad. That's why the thread was started. That's why people took it upon themselves to report back on trail conditions.
    2) We've had spirited discussions on the validity of the trail reports that have come back, even though those contesting the reports never set foot (or tire) on the trails the day(s) the reports were made.
    3) We've organized a group ride to ease some of the tensions, have some fun, and talk about what we might be able to do regarding the issue of trail conservation and preservation.
    4) We've made it clear that we know the weather might not be suitable for a group ride Saturday, and that contingencies should be made.

    You're the one who came in and obviously didn't read the whole thread before you spouted off. If you did read the whole thread, then I'm not sure how you couldn't deduce the 4 points I just outlined. You then made your post, took your shot by telling a group who obviously won't ride if conditions aren't fit, not to "**** up the trails" and you were summarily flamed as a result. Perhaps my summary is way off base, but this is how I saw things unfold. I've also been a part of this thread and the ensuing results since it started.

    The offer stands. You obvioulsy share the same passion for the trails as the rest of us. If conditions are OK Saturday, join us. If they aren't, we'll reschedule the ride. Join us then. In any event, please don't come in shooting from the hip and not expect to get shot back.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Again, if you'd just go back and read the whole thread, you'd realize a few things:

    1) Everyone is concerned about damaging the trails by riding them when conditions are bad. That's why the thread was started. That's why people took it upon themselves to report back on trail conditions.
    2) We've had spirited discussions on the validity of the trail reports that have come back, even though those contesting the reports never set foot (or tire) on the trails the day(s) the reports were made.
    3) We've organized a group ride to ease some of the tensions, have some fun, and talk about what we might be able to do regarding the issue of trail conservation and preservation.
    4) We've made it clear that we know the weather might not be suitable for a group ride Saturday, and that contingencies should be made.

    You're the one who came in and obviously didn't read the whole thread before you spouted off. If you did read the whole thread, then I'm not sure how you couldn't deduce the 4 points I just outlined. You then made your post, took your shot by telling a group who obviously won't ride if conditions aren't fit, not to "**** up the trails" and you were summarily flamed as a result. Perhaps my summary is way off base, but this is how I saw things unfold. I've also been a part of this thread and the ensuing results since it started.

    The offer stands. You obvioulsy share the same passion for the trails as the rest of us. If conditions are OK Saturday, join us. If they aren't, we'll reschedule the ride. Join us then. In any event, please don't come in shooting from the hip and not expect to get shot back.

    Bob

    I'd be happy to join you guys sometime, but I'll be upfront, I'm a total ***** when it comes to cold weather riding and if it's in the 40s and raining that is cold weather to me.
    I think I may try and get out Today(thurs) or Friday.

  99. #99
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    Cold weather sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    I'd be happy to join you guys sometime, but I'll be upfront, I'm a total ***** when it comes to cold weather riding and if it's in the 40s and raining that is cold weather to me.
    I think I may try and get out Today(thurs) or Friday.
    I agree, but it's the only exercise I get, and I'll usually ride in weather until it gets down into the teens.(Nothing like frozen snot on your mustache, eh?) I certainly won't ride in the rain.

    Hope to get to ride with you, and no hard feelings regarding the shots across the bow.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  100. #100
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    i hate to rain on the parade, but that is exactly the weather that is predicted for saturday morning....

    it rained a bunch last night (WEDNESDAY) too!

    i'd be up for meeting up with any of you'z clowns sunday or monday at the plateau. i could show you around if you don't know the trails. or if you already know the trails we could just get busy ridin.

    i would recommend against wissy this weekend but it certainly won't keep anyone else out so....

  101. #101
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    Maybe you are right

    max-a-mill you maybe right. Sunday or monday may be better. I and others still want to catch up with everyone so should we decide tommorow (friday) sometime.
    Lets say NOON. Everyone agree?

    Maybe we could let everyone know by starting a new thread too. Thoughts anyone?

    It will be cold on sunday but who cares, as long as there's no rain right.
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  102. #102
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    Works for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    max-a-mill you maybe right. Sunday or monday may be better. I and others still want to catch up with everyone so should we decide tommorow (friday) sometime.
    Lets say NOON. Everyone agree?

    Maybe we could let everyone know by starting a new thread too. Thoughts anyone?

    It will be cold on sunday but who cares, as long as there's no rain right.
    On all accounts, I agree. The weather does not look like it's going to be favorable. let's check back in Friday at noon and finalize if we're on or off as well as alternative days for the ride. Someone please take the initiative to start the new thread ASAP.

    I can do Sunday the 15th, but I won't be able to meet up until 1. Don't let this stop anyone from making plans based on the majority's availability. Definitely can't do anything next week or next weekend. I'd be willing to take a day off during the week of the 23rd. I'm available again on Saturday the 28th.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  103. #103
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    or

    we could just get together and ride forbidden drive for a couple laps. and get to know each other in the rain

  104. #104
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    For you, Keith...anything...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    we could just get together and ride forbidden drive for a couple laps. and get to know each other in the rain

    Well...almost anything...

    Come to think of it, given my fitness/fatness level right now, Forbidden Drive might be pushing the envelope.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  105. #105
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    weekend riding

    Hey all,

    I am not going to be around this weekend. Going to snowboard instead.

    What do people think about becoming members of JAR instead of re-inventing the wheel ?

    regards,
    scoon

  106. #106
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    Joining JAR or DVMBP

    Quote Originally Posted by scoon
    Hey all,

    I am not going to be around this weekend. Going to snowboard instead.

    What do people think about becoming members of JAR instead of re-inventing the wheel ?

    regards,
    scoon
    Makes perfect sense to me. I would guess that some people posting here are already involved in some way. In any event, I'd still like to get a group ride in. Never did I think this get together would spawn a new "splinter group" from the established trail maintenance and preservation resources already in place. Talk about or passions? Yes. Discuss joining groups like JAR and DVMBP as ways we can help? Good idea, IMO. Share insights on where we think the line is drawn for determining desireable vs destructive riding conditions? Excellent topic for discussion. Fistfights to determine who's right or wrong? Weelllll....

    That's just my spin on things.

    Have an excellent time snowboarding, and hopefully we'll meet up soon. o O ( or is that scoon?) Sorry...couldn't stop myself.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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