Sunday Hunting HB1760

Printable View

  • 10-28-2011
    hondachevy
    Sunday Hunting HB1760
    There was a bill introduced in Harrisburg that would allow hunting on sunday. It is HB1760.

    Please take a few moments and and contact your legislators and let them know you are against this bill. Also let them know that there are many groups that like to use the woods not just us but hikers, horse riders, walkers, trail runners, etc...

    If you don't know who your legislator is go to the site...

    The Pennsylvania General Assembly

    There is a link that you plug in your zip and it tells you who your reps are.

    Please take a few minutes and send an e-mail to your reps. If we don't then we risk losing our ability to ride safely on Sundays!

    Thanks.
  • 10-28-2011
    jonz
    Thanks for the reminder hondachevy.

    Here's a letter that I wrote to my State Assemblyman a few months ago when this issue first came up in this thread. Feel free to use it, modify it as you see fit.

    I received a reply from my assemblyman a few days later saying that he's leaning toward not supporting the bill. It was promising to hear, seeing that I live in a rural, conservative district.
  • 10-28-2011
    hondachevy
    Is IMBA aware of this bill?
  • 10-28-2011
    hypermac
    Remember, bikers can ride all year. Hunters have a comparatively small window of time to enjoy their sport.

    Look at it this way- How many of you only ride on weekends due to work, family commitments, etc..? At least you have two days to satisfy your biking itch. Now imagine that you were only allowed to bike one day a week. You'd be pissed. Hunters are in this situation. Most can only get on Sat. during the season. Why not let them have Sun. as well?


    Interestingly, the majority of funding for wildlife and state land conservation comes from the sale of hunting licenses, something like 85 cents for every dollar spent.

    Full disclosure: I am both a biker and a hunter.
  • 10-28-2011
    jonz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hypermac View Post
    Remember, bikers can ride all year. Hunters have a comparatively small window of time to enjoy their sport.

    Lets ignore squirrels, rabbits, crows, porcupines, etc and concentrate on the big two: turkey and deer. Exact seasons vary by Wildlife Management Unit, but generally deer season (archery, rifle, and then archery again) spans from Sept 17 - Jan 17: 4 Months. Then you have spring gobbler which sucks up all of May, and starting in 2011 is no longer limited to the morning hours.

    That's a total of 5 months of open season.

    I'm all for hunters being able to hunt on their own private land 7 days / week. I could care less. Hell, they can have the 1.4 million acres of Gamelands on Sunday too. After all, they pay for it. Where I draw the line is all the other public land: State Parks, and State Forests. I mean Jesus, the way Spring gobbler is now structured you can now hunt all day in most State Parks during Memorial Day weekend when thousands of people are out camping and hiking with their families.

    Full disclosure: I'm a former archery hunter that still has alot of respect for hunter's rights. I just care a little more about mountain biking rights. After all we don't have a multi-million dollar lobby whispering into the ears of the State Assemblymen in Harrisburg.
  • 10-28-2011
    dietz31684
    If it passes I'll just ride on Saturdays too and wear bright clothes. Now I stay out of the woods where hunting is permitted on Saturdays, I figure the hunters can have Sat and we can have Sunday, sounds fair to me. If hunters have both days my group of friends and I will just ride both days...
  • 10-28-2011
    slowdave
    i refuse to stay out of state lands during hunting season , hunters have plenty of game lands, they can use that, i pay plenty of taxes that should give me the right to go in state forests/parks with out fear of getting shot thank you very much,
  • 10-28-2011
    KP snowman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonz View Post
    Lets ignore squirrels, rabbits, crows, porcupines, etc and concentrate on the big two: turkey and deer. Exact seasons vary by Wildlife Management Unit, but generally deer season (archery, rifle, and then archery again) spans from Sept 17 - Jan 17: 4 Months. Then you have spring gobbler which sucks up all of May, and starting in 2011 is no longer limited to the morning hours.

    That's a total of 5 months of open season.

    I'm all for hunters being able to hunt on their own private land 7 days / week. I could care less. Hell, they can have the 1.4 million acres of Gamelands on Sunday too. After all, they pay for it. Where I draw the line is all the other public land: State Parks, and State Forests. I mean Jesus, the way Spring gobbler is now structured you can now hunt all day in most State Parks during Memorial Day weekend when thousands of people are out camping and hiking with their families.

    Full disclosure: I'm a former archery hunter that still has alot of respect for hunter's rights. I just care a little more about mountain biking rights. After all we don't have a multi-million dollar lobby whispering into the ears of the State Assemblymen in Harrisburg.

    Well said jonz :thumbsup: give them the gamelands, as it is MTbiking is off limits on most of them anyway:nono: But the county & state parks like prompton,LSP,merli,& other that have trail system in them that were made for Mt biking & hiking NO WAY:madmax:
  • 10-29-2011
    Ali_Pine
    Recently saw a televised 'debate' on Sunday hunting. Rep. John Evans, R-Erie presented the 'pro' position. One of his arguments was that Sunday hunting would have very limited impact on 'non-hunting recreation' on State Lands. He also indicated that the statistics showed that Sunday hunting would be safer than horseback riding.

    In recent newspaper article he was quoted “I was presented with the facts,” Evans said. “From an economic standpoint, it’s a real shot in the arm for the Pennsylvania economy, and when we’re coming out of a recession, these types of opportunities need to be seized.” “Folks who argue against it generally are believers in the blue laws established years ago” said Evans, “but — you know — we have changed as a society.”

    Hunting already has an impact on other forms of recreation. State Lands are CLOSED to non-hunting recreation during hunting season. Sunday hunting would effectively close State Lands seven months of the year. Do the statistics consider the fact that State Land are closed to non-hunting activities? Non-hunting users of State lands avoid the woods during hunting seasons for safety. Sunday hunting eliminates any safe days to walk, bike, or horseback.

    From the Pa Game Commission Regulations - Designated Routes for Horses and Bicycles Web page.

    "Under the new regulations, anyone who rides a non-motorized vehicle, conveyance or animal on State Game Lands must do so only on designated routes. Such riding activities will not be permitted, except on Sundays or on roads open to public travel, from the last Saturday in September to the third Saturday in January, and after 1 p.m. from the second Saturday in April to the last Saturday in May. This does not apply to anyone lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing on State Game Lands."

    The economy argument may have a value, but non-hunting activities also have an impact. The 'toys' used in non-hunting recreation have a big impact on the local economy. Bicycle Shops, Food/Beverage stores, Horse rentals/boarding/tack shops are being located near areas open for recreation. Taking away non-hunting recreation would have a negative impact to those business.

    Coming out of a recession means that sectors of the economy are getting better. Business across the board are seeing the a better economic picture. Hunting effects a small portion of the economy. The 'hunting economy' is doing good. Have any gun shops or hunting supply business gone under during the bad economy? Would Sunday hunting bring them back?

    The blue law argument is sort of correct. It's antiquated, but we have changed as a society. As a society we participate in numerous non-hunting activities introduced since the blue laws became law.

    Most hunters are in it for the recreation - very few MUST hunt for meat.

    I'm a person who uses State Lands for hunting AND non-hunting recreation. One day a week for non-hunting recreation needs to be preserved.
  • 10-29-2011
    dodcey
    Why not just buy a hunting license and wear blaze orange? My LBS is already stocking up on orange winter gear just for that reason. As far as worrying over getting shot, for me its nothing different from any other day. I've had a hand gun waved in my face on a ride, rifle shot over my head and many other issues with poachers and other strange people even in the middle of the summer. FYI In the Jim Thorpe area.
  • 10-30-2011
    InvictaS1
    i'm all for sunday hunting. if sunday hunting gets more people outside and involved in outdoor activities then i don't see a downside to it.

    with all the public land we have in pa i'm sure you guys can find somewhere else to ride during hunting season without riding on gamelands.
  • 10-30-2011
    NEPMTBA
    You've seen it!...

    You've heard it!...

    and you're still asking questions?

    "Goose"
  • 10-30-2011
    Uncle Six Pack
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ali_Pine View Post
    Hunting already has an impact on other forms of recreation. State Lands are CLOSED to non-hunting recreation during hunting season. Sunday hunting would effectively close State Lands seven months of the year. Do the statistics consider the fact that State Land are closed to non-hunting activities? Non-hunting users of State lands avoid the woods during hunting seasons for safety. Sunday hunting eliminates any safe days to walk, bike, or horseback.

    There is a big difference between "State Lands" and "State Game Lands". State Lands are NOT closed to non-hunters ever. State Game Lands (which are closed to non-hunters during hunting season) generally have few opportunities for mtbers to ride (legally) anyway.
  • 11-01-2011
    jonathangeiman
    Who cares? Just wear orange and ride fast! How cool would it be to shoot a deer off a bike anyway! Pretty dang cool, I ain't never seen no deer riding a bike before!
  • 11-01-2011
    Bizman
    I am an avid biker and I like to hunt. I still think it would be nice to keep Sundays hunting free for the most part. Most of your "real hunters" will be hunting where you don't have paths that bikes ride and other people around in the area your hunting.

    Unfortunalty there are alot of lazy hunters who don't venture far from public roads, there car, or a well beatin path. I will continue to wear orange and stick to paths and fire roads. In response to jonathangeiman, I see deer, turkeys bear and other creatures all the time while riding my bike so maybe I should carry a gun. The bigest concern would be trying to drag the deer out with my bicycle!
  • 11-02-2011
    mtnbiker64
    Sunday Hunting HB1760
    Most people I know go for the trophy to mount on the wall. The meat gets discarded. State game lands are off limits to bikers now. I generally stay away on Saturdays. I also try to stay away from other land that is hunted on. But if this passes I won't be. I live away from home during the week and can really only get out now on Sundays. This passes I might as well get a license, wear orange, go out in the woods and just shoot the rifle repeatedly to scar off anything around. I'm sure you hunters will love hearing this. Or maybe I'll just take out the atv so the engine noise scares away the deer. 9 out of 10 of my hunting friends take at least 3-4 days off during hunting season so they have a better chance of shooting a deer. I could do the same with work but it is still during hunting season. No good can come from this. Only harsh feelings and worse. Just my opinion.
  • 11-02-2011
    Mike Aswell
    Sorry, have to disagree with the claim that most hunters discard the meat. Almost every hunter I know eats venison. And the few who don't donate theirs to a food charity. If you think every hunter "hunts for the trophy," then why were doe tag sales around 900,000 this year in the state of PA. No trophy there.

    But back on topic, the bottom line is that the PGC thinks that Sunday hunting will increase license sales b/c somewhere out there is someone who doesn't hunt b/c he/she can't hunt on Sundays. And I think this is pretty far off the mark. Sunday hunting won't increase license sales. It's almost as laughable as the atlatl debate a few years back, but not quite that bad.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtnbiker64 View Post
    Most people I know go for the trophy to mount on the wall. The meat gets discarded. State game lands are off limits to bikers now. I generally stay away on Saturdays. I also try to stay away from other land that is hunted on. But if this passes I won't be. I live away from home during the week and can really only get out now on Sundays. This passes I might as well get a license, wear orange, go out in the woods and just shoot the rifle repeatedly to scar off anything around. I'm sure you hunters will love hearing this. Or maybe I'll just take out the atv so the engine noise scares away the deer. 9 out of 10 of my hunting friends take at least 3-4 days off during hunting season so they have a better chance of shooting a deer. I could do the same with work but it is still during hunting season. No good can come from this. Only harsh feelings and worse. Just my opinion.

  • 11-02-2011
    Uncle Six Pack
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtnbiker64 View Post
    Most people I know go for the trophy to mount on the wall. The meat gets discarded.

    Then most people you know are fools.
  • 11-03-2011
    mtnbiker64
    Sunday Hunting HB1760
    I'll agree they are fools. They take some to make jerky and sausage and that is it. But there are a lot of others who are fools as well. It just happens some of these are the ones running this country and the game commission. It always seems to be about money. No thought is hardly given about the general public.
  • 11-03-2011
    Feanor76
    Not the best stuff I've ever written, but feel free to hack it into something you can use for yourself.

    Best,
    Mark
    ************************************************** *************************************************
    To the Honorable <name>,

    It has come to my attention that a bill (HB1760) has been introduced in the House. The net effect of this bill is to allow hunting on Sundays.

    I would like to speak against this bill and I urge you to work against its enactment into law.

    In Pennsylvania, hunters currently have essentially exclusive access to massive tracks of State Game Lands. This is justified on the basis that it is primarily hunters fees that support the Pennsylvania Game Commission. I have no opinion on Sunday hunting on State Game Lands.

    However, another large class of land is typicaly open to hunting. Many State Parks have zones which allow hunting in the appropriate season. While seasons vary, let us consider the two major targets of hunting: turkey and deer. Depending on Wildlife Management Unit, deer seasons extend from mid-September to mid-January and the Spring turkey season extends throughout May. Broadly speaking, hunting is allowed during five months of the year in State Parks. If other species are included, this time frame only increases.

    As an avid hiker, winter sport enthusiast, naturalist, and mountain biker, I make extensive use of State Park land for a variety of health and recreational benefits. I also share these experiences and natural resources with family: my wife and my son. It is a risk to be in areas that are open to hunting. My family and I mitigate these risks by wearing orange blaze during hunting seasons.

    However, many families and individuals I know are completely unwilling to accept the risk of being in hunting areas (or, even in areas that neighbor hunting areas) during hunting seasons. Indeed, during the peak season of deer, my family and I will not venture outdoors. When individuals have concerns about sharing the woods with hunters, they are restricted to one day (Sunday) of activity -- in lands that are supported by taxpayer funding -- for five months of the year.

    This disparity would only be magnified by the adoption of HB1760. Again, I urge you to work against its passage.
  • 11-03-2011
    blackbart
    I both ride and hunt and definitely support Sunday hunting. The opportunities to hunt for those of us with normal daytime jobs is quite limited as hunting is allowed only from civil sunrise to civil sunset. Getting out in the field and back before or after work during the weekdays is simple not feasible after the time change. That leaves only one day a week for hunting, which is not too infrequently is washed out due to weather.

    The safety issue is vastly overstated - hunters are not some quick draw shooters. It is, for the most part, a slow stalking process. Just wear your blaze, although I would advocate vacating the woods during antlered deer rifle season; things get a bit crowded for those couple of weeks.
  • 11-03-2011
    slowdave
    gee i guess only hunters have jobs that only allow them to get out on weekends
    yeah im being a richard here
  • 11-03-2011
    NEPMTBA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slowdave View Post
    gee i guess only hunters have jobs that only allow them to get out on weekends
    yeah im being a richard here

    Richard Lick?

    LOL

    Ride da mOOn
    Mike Hunt does...
  • 11-04-2011
    hondachevy
    I want to teach my kids to ride and enjoy the woods without fear of being shot. Hunters have enough opportunity to enjoy their sport. I would be happy to share equitably but I see this as an all or nothing proposition. The hunters will take all of everything if given the chance. We need to defend our position or risk losing our opportunity to use the woods.
  • 11-04-2011
    blackbart
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slowdave View Post
    gee i guess only hunters have jobs that only allow them to get out on weekends
    yeah im being a richard here

    I stated I have a normal daytime job. Most people work during the day during the work week. This law accommodates this reality.
  • 11-04-2011
    jonathangeiman
    Really people? I think that you all think that there is going to be hundreds of people in the woods 5 months out of the year. not a chance! You might have a few out their on sundays, maybe for a couple weekends. I ride, and I am also a hunter. Most hunters like myself go out for the big seasons, deer. That's it. it might be 5 sundays....at best. Get over it. USE THE DANG WOODS THE REST OF THE YEAR and stop being so dang greedy. Besides....the hunters that would hunt sundays are probably not going to be the kind that will shoot at anything that moves. wear orange and be safe...heck, carry a whistle with you too. They won't shoot you cause you are annoying. If they do....carry a gun a shoot back.
  • 11-04-2011
    Ali_Pine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    Really people? I think that you all think that there is going to be hundreds of people in the woods 5 months out of the year. not a chance! You might have a few out their on sundays, maybe for a couple weekends. I ride, and I am also a hunter. Most hunters like myself go out for the big seasons, deer. That's it. it might be 5 sundays....at best. Get over it. USE THE DANG WOODS THE REST OF THE YEAR and stop being so dang greedy. Besides....the hunters that would hunt sundays are probably not going to be the kind that will shoot at anything that moves. wear orange and be safe...heck, carry a whistle with you too. They won't shoot you cause you are annoying. If they do....carry a gun a shoot back.

    :madman::madman::madman::madman::madman:
    There are probably six (6) Sundays in Spring Turkey Season. That's some PRIME RIDING TIME.

    If Sunday Hunting is approved expect to see a lot of turkeys on two wheels in the woods. Some MAY even wear blaze orange.
  • 11-04-2011
    OldManBike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    . it might be 5 sundays....at best. Get over it. USE THE DANG WOODS THE REST OF THE YEAR and stop being so dang greedy.

    Huh, that's exactly how I feel about it too ... which is why I'm opposed to Sunday hunting. Take the NRA spiel somewhere else, this is a mountain biking forum.
  • 11-04-2011
    bear
    Hey geiman, how about "you have six out of seven days of the week" during hunting season already, how about sharing a bit?

    Compromise action, like Jonz posted, take the SGL for 7-days, leave off the state forests and parks on sat/sun. Whaddya say?
  • 11-04-2011
    Marion Delgado
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    Who cares? Just wear orange and ride fast!

    They won't shoot you cause you are annoying. If they do....carry a gun a shoot back.

    I could NOT agree MORE. You are my kind of man, an internet tough guy with a hilarious side. I'm just sad that you've only posted here 7 times, we need your kind of humor here more often!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackbart View Post
    The safety issue is vastly overstated - hunters are not some quick draw shooters. It is, for the most part, a slow stalking process. Just wear your blaze

    You said it! I mean, hardly ANYONE ever gets accidentally shot and killed by hunters! I mean, two weeks ago there was this guy who was out hunting with his 12 year old grand son in Oregon and killed a hiker he mistook for a bear. And, well, two weeks ago a 10 year-old hunter in Michigan accidentally killed his father with a shotgun. Oops! Three weeks ago, on a Sunday, this Texas hunter accidentally shot and killed his father, too. A month ago a New Mexico hunter "mistook the ATV for an elk" and killed an ATV rider. Last week a 16 year old NY kid accidentally shot himself (no danger to others!) in the head, and died, when he tried to move a hunting rifle. And this past Sunday a Vermont hunter shot his buddy whilst aiming at a bear.

    But I don't know of ONE SINGLE hunting accident that happened today. Except for these two in Maine, today, and for all I know both of them didn't even die.

    Except for these guys, and maybe a few others, all the rest of the recent hunting was just a slow, stalking process, so the safety issue is vastly overstated.

    Just ride fast and shoot back! :p
  • 11-04-2011
    MikeBurnsie
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Hey geiman, how about "you have six out of seven days of the week" during hunting season already, how about sharing a bit.

    But then you can still do whatever you want for seven days and I'm limited to six. Who's being selfish now? I'm an avid hunter and bike enthusiast. This bill only gives the PGC the authority to implement Sundays as they see fit. If any thing it's going to be a slow implementation of Sunday hunting. Some of you guys make hunters out to be gunslinging goons. Sure every sport has it's questionably element. but hunting is a very safe activity. We all need to respect and learn to use our natural resources together. There's only a limited amount of space on this planet we call earth.
  • 11-04-2011
    KP snowman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeBurnsie View Post
    But then you can still do whatever you want for seven days and I'm limited to six. Who's being selfish now? I'm an avid hunter and bike enthusiast. This bill only gives the PGC the authority to implement Sundays as they see fit. If any thing it's going to be a slow implementation of Sunday hunting. Some of you guys make hunters out to be gunslinging goons. Sure every sport has it's questionably element. but hunting is a very safe activity. We all need to respect and learn to use our natural resources together. There's only a limited amount of space on this planet we call earth.

    I`ll put my 2 cents in again you see where I ride is a state park where there is a trail system for mtbike ,hiking & I guess hunting (most of which I made & yes legal) I stay away 6 out of 7 days in turkey & deer season,so I only mtbike sundays ,road or cross the other day(not much fun in cold weather) I don`t care about state game lands around here ,although large there is just fireroads on them & not much fun, yet hunters come to this small park.I agree there is questionably elements in every sport( I have seen some mtbikers & hikers do some pretty dumb things.Although most the hunters I come across in the other hunting seasons (like small game are good & even say how great it is to have the trails here.That being said then there are some other that are not so nice.We had some one put nails in boards & put them on the trails & cover them with leaves.The park ranger & PGC did catch the one guy & he admitted to it (said it was his place to hunt & bikes had no place in the woods) :rolleyes: I think it was the same guy that gave us a hard time in the parking lot as well:eekster:Like I said most are good but I do stay away & not take a chance :mad: so no I don`t want to loose my one day a week to mtbike ride:thumbsup:
  • 11-04-2011
    NEPMTBA
    KP:

    That's really sad that someone would stoop to that by trying to harm a biker, or anyone just because "he" decided that the woods are his, can I ask was he fined or jailed?

    Ride da Trails
    Respect everyone... :thumbsup:
  • 11-05-2011
    Ali_Pine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeBurnsie View Post
    But then you can still do whatever you want for seven days and I'm limited to six. Who's being selfish now? I'm an avid hunter and bike enthusiast. This bill only gives the PGC the authority to implement Sundays as they see fit. If any thing it's going to be a slow implementation of Sunday hunting.

    Some of you guys make hunters out to be gunslinging goons. Sure every sport has it's questionably element. but hunting is a very safe activity.

    We all need to respect and learn to use our natural resources together. There's only a limited amount of space on this planet we call earth.

    Gambling in the state grew from single drawing lottery to full blown casinos in very short time. Expansion was needed because all the gamblers went to other states to lose their money. Isn’t this an argument for Sunday hunting? If you think the Game Commission will take 'years' to implement Sunday hunting, you are probably wrong.

    Gun slinging goons? Why do most highway signs have holes in them? Hunting camp wouldn't be camp without large amounts of beer and booze in most camps. Most hunters experience ‘buck fever’ at least once in their lifetime. Sort of like tunnel vision. See the deer – must shoot the deer.

    To quote a friend who hunts…
    “I shot an arrow in the air –
    It landed I know where –
    I shot a buck who stood afar –
    It pierced the radiator of my car.”

    _
  • 11-05-2011
    jonathangeiman
    I'm not trying to be an internet tough guy.... So if hunting on sunday takes up 20 sundays a year. That still leaves 32 sundays. for hunter free riding. I maybe hunt 3 days a year for small game. if that. I hunt for maybe a week during flintlock season which is Dec. 26 - Jan. something. And thats during the week.

    I can see both sides, I take my wife and soon to be son, and our dog out on sundays. Mostly in the fall and winter. I also would not be opposed to SHARING the woods. You just might have to be on the side of caution. Seriously....what are the odds of actually getting hit by a bullet if you are travelling 10 or so miles an hour through trees?

    I don't really care if they pass it or not, I won't let it affect how I use PUBLIC land. Maybe instead of petitioning to not pass this bill, you could petition for mtn. bike specific areas. Similar to the sgl for hunters.

    I don't know why I even continue posting. You have your bike only enthusiasts. You have your bikers/hunters that really could go either way on the issue and wouldn't effect them. Thank goodness we don't have any hunting only enthusiasts on here.

    I'm only thinking of the one place I ride most of the time, and that is in Michaux close to pine grove state park. I've hunted there long before I've mountain biked...and guess what. I've never seen a biker.
  • 11-05-2011
    jonathangeiman
    Hopefully the state, and if they don't, the people that use the woods the most creates signs in the parking lot to remind those ones using the land that their are others as well besides them.
  • 11-05-2011
    KP snowman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    KP:

    That's really sad that someone would stoop to that by trying to harm a biker, or anyone just because "he" decided that the woods are his, can I ask was he fined or jailed?

    Ride da Trails
    Respect everyone... :thumbsup:

    I`am not 100% sure but I think he got a warning :nono:The thing is people hike the trails too, ya want to step on a nail :eek: But the real point I was trying to make is the one guy says we have 7 days to ride & hunter have 6 days to hunt just isn`t true. I know with shorter daylight hrs & work most people have weekends to ride or hunt in the daylight so why is it selfish to want one of the weekend days to do what we like to do:confused:talk about being selfish he wants hunters to have both days on weekends & mtbiker get none. I know around here a lot of the hunter take midweek days off to hunt too,especialy in deer & even turkey,thats why I stay out of the woods 6 days around these seasons :madman: Like others have said time to orange up make lots of noise(bells) & ride both days if they pass this bill :thumbsup:
  • 11-05-2011
    jonathangeiman
    KP, I'm with you, wear orange and blow a whistle, or get a bell. Enough that people can hear you but you aren't an annoyance.

    But the 6 day and 7 day thing. We would all get equal amounts of time in the woods. The bill doesn't say mtn. bikers can't use the woods. YES....I like having the woods hunter free on sundays. I don't think thats gonna happen though. Wait, we don't get equal amounts of time in the woods...hunters have seasons....last I checked we can mtn. bike any time of the year.
  • 11-05-2011
    slowdave
    i think again this point is being missed, hunters have acres upon acres of gamelands(million plus?), but need to hunt everywhere, keep it in the gamelands and there shouldn,t be a problem
    i've come across hunters in off limits areas(moon comes to mind) and when you tell them it's off limits they look at you like they want to shoot you, i havent run across anyone this year yet but i bet i do when antler comes in, i'll have my camera ready
  • 11-05-2011
    MikeBurnsie
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KP snowman View Post
    I`am not 100% sure but I think he got a warning :nono:The thing is people hike the trails too, ya want to step on a nail :eek: But the real point I was trying to make is the one guy says we have 7 days to ride & hunter have 6 days to hunt just isn`t true. I know with shorter daylight hrs & work most people have weekends to ride or hunt in the daylight so why is it selfish to want one of the weekend days to do what we like to do:confused:talk about being selfish he wants hunters to have both days on weekends & mtbiker get none. I know around here a lot of the hunter take midweek days off to hunt too,especialy in deer & even turkey,thats why I stay out of the woods 6 days around these seasons :madman: Like others have said time to orange up make lots of noise(bells) & ride both days if they pass this bill :thumbsup:

    You do have 7 days a week to ride, you don't have a law that says you can't, plain and simple. Hunting on Sundays is gonna happen, maybe not this year, but it's gonna happen. We need to share the resources. This is for the fella who said something about the road signs being shot up. How do you know it was a hunter? There are lots of gun owners who do not hunt. It's those kinda statements that make you look foolish.
  • 11-05-2011
    tduro
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeBurnsie View Post
    ...This bill only gives the PGC the authority to implement Sundays as they see fit. If any thing it's going to be a slow implementation of Sunday hunting...

    I'm glad you brought this up. The real question is...

    Who should have the ultimate power to make decisions about Sunday hunting? The legislature, which represents all Pennsylvanians, or the PGC, which represents only a small minority?

    This bill is an immoral and unethical power grab by a too powerful minority. They've already kicked us off their gamelands, which we all subsidize (in part) with our tax dollars. Now they're trying to take all the rest. It's not right, and it needs to be stopped. They already poach 7 days/week on "no hunting" trails. I've come close to being shot on trails off-limits to hunting. Now they want complete immunity for these activities.

    I steer clear of areas open to hunting on all the days when hunting is allowed. I may not like it, but I'm willing to give them their right of way. This gives me 1 day/week to ride in most places. (And I still run into plenty of hunters.) For them to take the last day is unconscionable and unacceptable.
  • 11-05-2011
    KP snowman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeBurnsie View Post
    You do have 7 days a week to ride, you don't have a law that says you can't, plain and simple. Hunting on Sundays is gonna happen, maybe not this year, but it's gonna happen. We need to share the resources. This is for the fella who said something about the road signs being shot up. How do you know it was a hunter? There are lots of gun owners who do not hunt. It's those kinda statements that make you look foolish.

    I don`t want to turn this into a Ping match,but I guess it already is:D & as I stated many times I think most hunter are good people.I think your right about the road signs being shot up,ya can`t just say it was a hunter:nono: too many nut cases out there:eekster: & your right about no laws that says I can`t ride my mtbike ( but not really there is laws about riding PSGL) 7 days a week,but & its a BIG BUT I have been in the woods when there was gun fire & its a real unEZ feeling not knowing & seeing where its coming from or where the hunter is:eekster:thats why for the most part I stay out of the woods & would like one day a week with a little peace of mine:) I like other that posted on here have no problem with 7 days of hunting ,just do it on the gamelands not in these little state parks where there are other user. I think its kind of dumb to have any hunting in these state & county parks,let them for the nonhunting groups & let the gamelands for the hunter :thumbsup: I`am done here back to the fatbike forum where everybody is happy :) try a fatbike & you will forget about hunting on sundays :D
  • 11-06-2011
    jonz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slowdave View Post
    i think again this point is being missed, hunters have acres upon acres of gamelands(million plus?), but need to hunt everywhere, keep it in the gamelands and there shouldn,t be a problem
    i've come across hunters in off limits areas(moon comes to mind) and when you tell them it's off limits they look at you like they want to shoot you, i havent run across anyone this year yet but i bet i do when antler comes in, i'll have my camera ready

    ^^^This. Maybe I'm jaded. I grew up in western New York. There is no such thing as 'State Game Lands' in New York. Yet for years, my dad, my brother, and I were content to hunt on my parent's own private land. We would never even consider hunting in a State Park. I grew up with the understanding that State Parks were for hiking/biking/skiing, etc.

    But, Pennsylvania has 1,400,000 acres of designated Game Lands, that are off limits to everyone other than hunters for 5 months of the years. But it's not enough. The hunter lobby wants it all...Game Lands, State Forest, State Parks, and private lands as well.

    As I've said before in this thread, I'm okay with Sunday hunting, but ONLY on private land and State Game Lands, NOT State Parks and State Forests.
  • 11-06-2011
    mt.Pulaski
    Keep sundays off limits to hunters.

    I think we should have State Mt. Biker land, and let hunters in only on sundays.
  • 11-06-2011
    Rad Rider 415
    This is ridiculous! If I can only ride Saturday, I'd be lucky to ride once a week during the fall/winter months.
  • 11-06-2011
    jonathangeiman
    I'd love to see sunday hunting in sgl's and private property happen. Even if it doesn't...I know where I live you will see few hunters in the woods outside of deer season on a sunday.

    I think the most dangerous part about this whole thing is the relationship between hunters and mtn. bikers. there could be a rumble in the parking lot. once they start shooting mtn bikers they will rethink the sunday hunting bill.
  • 11-07-2011
    bear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    I think the most dangerous part about this whole thing is the relationship between hunters and mtn. bikers. there could be a rumble in the parking lot. once they start shooting mtn bikers they will rethink the sunday hunting bill.

    just be glad it's PA and not TX (where I used to live). A few of my friends had CHL and "packed heat" while riding. Road and off-road.

    :^O

    Seriously though,

    The worst part of it all IS the friction it makes between the groups.

    I'd be a bit surprised if it's just hunters vs mtb's - this board gets a particular skew because it IS a MTBr board.

    I've seen similar issue-traffic on non-cyclist boards of various states though - day-hikers, back-packers, equestrians, etc., are all affected.

    The question of "when is enough, enough?" will always be "never" - I may be cynical but I believe it's just human nature. Take the humans in the virtual Positions of Power and they usually just want more Power. It is a sadly self-propagating situation.

    Rad Rider: You need to get a headlight and take up night-riding. It's the only safe way to get more than 1 day of riding during hunting season.

    Although, as cheap as the Magicshine lights are getting, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few deer running around with them sometime soon...
  • 11-07-2011
    jonathangeiman
    What about the poor animals anyway? Shouldn't they be able to roam free one day a week too? I mean, seriously, why aren't we sticking up for them too?
  • 11-07-2011
    Chriffer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    What about the poor animals anyway? Shouldn't they be able to roam free one day a week too? I mean, seriously, why aren't we sticking up for them too?

    Because they'll still run out in front of my car on Sundays.
  • 11-07-2011
    Ali_Pine
    Son shoots and kills father while turkey hunting in upper Dauphin County; coroner calls shooting 'unintentional' published: Monday, November 07, 2011, 12:51 PM (Penn Live Harrisburg)

    Tragic.


    Son shoots and kills father while turkey hunting in upper Dauphin County; coroner calls shooting 'unintentional' | PennLive.com
  • 11-07-2011
    jonathangeiman
    You know...A. we could post links to all the traffic accidents when people die too. Funny, we don't have a problem getting in your car everyday.
    B. His dad was wearing camo making noises that sound like a turkey. This does not justify someone shooting him. Just to point out this isn't what mtbers wear. well...we may sound like turkeys though. The boy (21) should have never made the shot in the first place. He should have his hunting privileges revoked forever...which I'm sure he voluntarily would anyway.

    But anyway....has anyone thought about that first fact....it's still more dangerous to drive. but we all do it and take our kids along too
  • 11-07-2011
    tduro
    I thought only deer season was dangerous. Lesson learned: Don't let anyone get away with making that argument again.
  • 11-08-2011
    Ali_Pine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    You know...A. .....
    B. His dad was wearing camo making noises that sound like a turkey.

    Where was this reported?
  • 11-08-2011
    bear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    ....it's still more dangerous to drive. but we all do it and take our kids along too

    True that, but don't even get me started on that. WTF is it with people in this region? Left turns on red, not yielding right of way to oncoming traffic, turning left on green in FRONT OF oncoming vehicles which are in motion who are NOT turning, the list goes on.

    I thought the Texas "hit the highway exit ramp from the passing lane with 10 yards to spare" was bad, when 18-wheelers did it, but this crap is IMO much worse.

    Is it just really too much coal dust in the brain or are people here really such uncaring, uneducated, self centered, self important, crass, butt-heads?
  • 11-08-2011
    jonathangeiman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ali_Pine View Post
    Where was this reported?

    It wasn't....I was only assuming....since that's what turkey hunters do. There are no orange requirements for turkey hunting. Except for having some sort of orange within 15 feet of you or something like that. I've never heard of a turkey hunter not using a call. I also know it's rare that you use a rifle, not a shotgun for turkey hunting. In my opinion turkey hunting is the most dangerous hunting if you ask me.
  • 11-08-2011
    jonathangeiman
    I know this thread has kind of died down. I really don't want to see sunday hunting in state parks and forests. Could care less if it happened on private land and sgls. But at the same time, if it does, I'm still going to ride and spend time in the woods, just err on the side of caution. Or wait till the season is over.
  • 11-09-2011
    bear
    re: turkey season - people with Avid brakes should be extra careful, if I recall those brakes make a "turkey gobble" sound oft-times.

    :P
  • 11-09-2011
    Mike Aswell
    I've stated in earlier posts I hunt and mt bike...I'm personally not in favor of Sunday hunting (which I also posted about in the other Sunday hunting thread...or is it still the same thread?? I can't remember). But apparently for much different reasons than most who are opposed other than jonathangeiman who offered a similar opinion to mine.

    With those disclosures stated, I think everyone on both sides is being a little dramatic. To those opposed for apparent safety reasons, will you please post links to any known story where a hunter accidentally or purposefully shot a mt biker? The turkey hunting story exemplifies that hunting is dangerous, but he shot someone in his own party who (presumably) was in cammo. He did not shoot a mt biker dressed appropriately for the season (i.e. bright colors). My honest opinion is that you are a lot more likely to run into some whacko on a Saturday who kills you for fun than you are to be accidentally shot by a hunter. And no, I don't have any data to back that up. It's just anecdotal based on the fact that I've never in my life heard of a mt biker being shot by a hunter. In fact, when you google "mountain biker shot hunter" (which evidently others have b/c it autofills) in the first 4 pages of results there is nothing other than people on biking forums talking about it...:D
  • 11-09-2011
    krazcustoms
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mike Aswell View Post
    I've stated in earlier posts I hunt and mt bike...I'm personally not in favor of Sunday hunting (which I also posted about in the other Sunday hunting thread...or is it still the same thread?? I can't remember). But apparently for much different reasons than most who are opposed other than jonathangeiman who offered a similar opinion to mine.

    With those disclosures stated, I think everyone on both sides is being a little dramatic. To those opposed for apparent safety reasons, will you please post links to any known story where a hunter accidentally or purposefully shot a mt biker? The turkey hunting story exemplifies that hunting is dangerous, but he shot someone in his own party who (presumably) was in cammo. He did not shoot a mt biker dressed appropriately for the season (i.e. bright colors). My honest opinion is that you are a lot more likely to run into some whacko on a Saturday who kills you for fun than you are to be accidentally shot by a hunter. And no, I don't have any data to back that up. It's just anecdotal based on the fact that I've never in my life heard of a mt biker being shot by a hunter. In fact, when you google "mountain biker shot hunter" (which evidently others have b/c it autofills) in the first 4 pages of results there is nothing other than people on biking forums talking about it...:D

    You don't read about mountain bikers being shot by hunters because mountain bikers generally avoid the woods during hunting season during hunting hours.

    And really, does it actually have to happen to make this argument justifiable?

    Also, to those saying "just wear orange and make alot of noise" are neglecting the fact that bullets can't see nor hear so if you're beyond a missed target or worse yet zipping along on a trail that's between the hunter and his target you are SOL. It's still a very good idea to do so, but it won't automatically make you immune from getting shot.
  • 11-09-2011
    jonathangeiman
    kraz, I see your point about the missed target. And I also understand your concern for safety. And we are NOT immune from being shot. However, We have help from trees.

    Most of us ride our bikes in the mountains, which are home to alot of trees. if we are making alot of noise with a whistle, for example, That could probably be heard, a hundred, maybe two hundred yards away. close enough to alert a hunter. If he still shoots at a deer or other game that is also not frightened by the noise the odds that the bullet would weave through the trees and hit you is incredibly high. If it did get me, I couldn't argue with the fact that is was my God given destiny to be shot that day. I'll say the same thing for zipping along the trail....In the woods, where we already established are home to many trees, you will rarely get a shot at a deer or other game further than 100 yards. So to be between the target and the hunter at the exact moment of the shot is again, highly unlikely. Either the hunter would hear you, or the game would be long gone before you got anywhere close to the hunter or the game.
  • 11-09-2011
    jonathangeiman
    I really just don't think you can make the argument that it's unsafe. Mountain biking in itself would be called dangerous by the opposition. I'd rather argue that we just want hunter free sundays in state parks. no reason other then I'd rather not hear gunshots walking the woods with my family.
  • 11-10-2011
    Rad Rider 415
    There was a woman hit by shot gun pellets in Mt. Gretna SGL's a day or 2 before hunting season even started! I mean can't hunters learn to share the trails?? I just hope it was an accident and I'm just glad the poor lady is ok.
  • 11-11-2011
    hondachevy
    I'm glad to see this thread hasn't devolved into a bunch of name calling and personal attacks. Seriously.
  • 11-11-2011
    Got-Bike!!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hondachevy View Post
    I'm glad to see this thread hasn't devolved into a bunch of name calling and personal attacks. Seriously.

    I'm glad to see no one is talking about Mt.Biking on the hunting forum! That would be just rude!
  • 12-13-2011
    jonz
    Bumpity Bump
    A bit of an update from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

    Outdoors Notebook: Movement expected on state Sunday hunting bill

    The part that was most interesting to me:

    The latest compromise being considered would make Sunday hunting legal on private land only, with the owner's consent. Hunting would be banned Sundays on state game lands, state parks and other public properties.

    I could deal with that.
  • 12-13-2011
    hondachevy
    Thanks for the bump, I e-mailed my reps again.
  • 12-21-2011
    Stranglehold
    I both ride and hunt and I would like the opportunity to archery hunt on Sunday. I do understand peoples concerns about being shoot at.
  • 12-22-2011
    jonathangeiman
    i am curious...has there ever been a reported case of a hunter accidently shooting a hiker or a biker?
  • 12-22-2011
    joshhan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    i am curious...has there ever been a reported case of a hunter accidently shooting a hiker or a biker?

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...=1920&bih=1019

    Lots of stories there for hikers. Don't see anything for mountain bikers.
  • 12-22-2011
    jonz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathangeiman View Post
    i am curious...has there ever been a reported case of a hunter accidently shooting a hiker or a biker?

    I know that just this fall, a hunter in Western New York accidentally shot a school bus full of kids while hunting on his property. :eekster: Not sure if that counts??? Link
  • 12-22-2011
    NEPMTBA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonz View Post
    I know that just this fall, a hunter in Western New York accidentally shot a school bus full of kids while hunting on his property. :eekster: Not sure if that counts??? Link

    Assuming it was a male bus, how many points did the bus have?