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  1. #1
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Specialized Turbo Levo legal at Lackawanna State park

    The Specialized Turbo Levo e-assist mt bike is legal to ride trails at Lackawanna State park!

    Speciailized and Around Town Bikes hosted a demo and the ranger rode a Levo as well. I see this as the platform that will allow all state parks in Pa to allow these bikes.

    Anyone interested in trying a Levo can contact Around Town Bikes at 570-970-3008.

  2. #2
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    New Maps of...

    Lackawanna State Park and Countryside Conservancy trail system are available at the state park and Around Town Bikes: R59 North Main Street Wilkes Barre Pa 570-970-3008

    I will PDF one as soon as I get time

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    This is great news for PA. Getting rangers to ride it has a great way of advocating.

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    Since the Specialized was designed to fit the EPAC standards. The rangers not only wanted to learn about them but also to know what they look like, so they can patrol for other bikes that aren't legal.

    It is great news and having a state park crew that helps out is great too.

    Our shop has future plans to have more demos and expand to a weekend with other events in the works.

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    When I roll into PA next summer for the Hipoint Natls I will check it out .

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    NEPMTBA - i loved it when you posted about rides and stuff; but lately you are becoming a total shill for e-bikes (which i just figured out you sell)...

    if you want to post pictures or share opinions about bicycles (even electric ones i guess) please feel free; but stop being the voice of ebikes (that you just happen to sell) in a forum devoted to riding mountain bikes in PA.

    personally i hope this whole ebike thing doesn't spread to other parks as i fear many places in especially those closer to major urban areas such as philadelphia would have big user conflict issues if e-bikes were to take a major hold.

    i believe there is a forum for ebikes; go have at it... or go sell your bikes in the classifieds... or start taking some cool pictures of all the remote places you go by bike again; that stuff was great!

  7. #7
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    Well. my friend e-bikes "ARE" mt biking...
    ...and I'm not trying to sell them here on mtbr, just promoting them to a crowd that has taken to them. Anyone can sell stuff here on mtbr. It's not uncommon now.

    The e-bike thing isn't a big scary monster, and I can tell having spent many hours riding one,that the e-bike I ride usually isn't even noticed by other trail users I have ridden past, or they just don't care.

    The e-bike forum is great, but anyone can post e-bike related topics on almost any forum here on mtbr. Have you ever seen threads on road biking or fishing with your mt bike here on mtbr? I for one enjoy seeing stuff like that It gives me a different perspective as to what others are doing with bicycles.

    I'm am the voice of e-bikes and many other forums of wheeled motion. Trail building, Moto trials, motocross, as well as harescrambles. I feel I have had the chance to meet and work with many cool people and I try to spread the friendship across all boarders.

    They are already legal in state parks and it wasn't my doing directly, so as you can see the e-bike thing is here to stay, and many others have voiced opinion as to them broadening in the future. so barking at me the small guy won't do anything. The industry is behind all this, and they will do as they please. You can choose to buy in or just follow the path that leads you to your destination.

    I'm glad you expressed your opinion to me, and your thoughts do matter. I basically stopped posting pics for two reasons: No one commented, and all I had were lurkers. It would have been nice to see someone post up "Hey great pic or where was that" But just crickets, so I figured no one cared. Second with that said I spend more on moto related topics on other forums where there is more chatter. I could offer a suggestion maybe you should post pics and start threads on interesting topics here on mtbr, so we can all enjoy "your" travels.

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    got young kids so i don't travel or do anything interesting anymore... i come on the internet to live vicariously through others.

    e-bikes are now officially legal in all state parks? when did that happen?

    your opinion is they are bicycles; mine is they are mopeds... i do totally see them being a great means of transport in areas with low population and low user conflicts on the trails; BUT in areas around cities like where i live in philly these things would/will be a major nuisance.

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    I hear ya on the conflicts part...
    ...I just wish we as mt bikers would all get along.

    The Specialized Turbo Levo was purpose built as a legal for state parks not to say all state parks will allow use.

    I know you Philly guys are upset with e-bikes and I don't blame you! It will all get sorted out for the most part. Remember when mt bikers were looked at as downhill outta control maniacs? But we all learned to get along and help the trails!
    Last edited by NEPMTBA; 11-03-2016 at 10:26 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    I hear ya on the conflicts part...
    ...I just wish we as mt bikers would all get along.

    I know you Philly guys are upset with e-bikes and I don't blame you! It will all get sorted out for the most part. remember when mt bikers were looked at as downhill outta control maniacs? But we all learned to get along and help the trails
    We have enough user conflicts with a small minority of mt bikers riding like downhill outta control maniacs, already. We have legitimate concern that e-bikes will only exacerbate those conflicts. Those downhill outta control maniacs can't ride tech to save their lives and in addition to the user conflicts that they create, straighten and widen the trails, doing nearly as much, if not more damage than equestrians. With their weight, e-bikes are less tech capable and to the extent that they get ridden by people who don't want to work on the climbs and speed the downhill sections, they will only exacerbate the problems of trail damage by cutting corners and technical sections. They have the potential to be a really big problem here.

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    Gigantic,

    Let me ask you have you spent time riding an e-bike? If so where and what model did you ride?

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    Having tested out a turbo levo a few days ago, there is no way I would want that thing anywhere near any technical stuff at all. If it's a smooth Trail it would be fine but rooty, eocky technical stuff the e-bike is absolutely ridiculous.
    I couldn't get the front end up at all in a parking lot let alone going down technical stuff, where I need to loft the front end.

    I certainly don't want ebikes to suddenly now make people want to make trails smooth to accommodate them.
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

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    I agree they are a hand full on tech, but that;'s why I like them. A different challenge for me. The front end weight forward reminds me of my 1993 Aprillia Climber trails moto. Carried the motor way front and static to big up required lots of slipping clutch and hoping the tire hooked up.

    Where I ride no one is making trail smooth, straight maybe for Strava segments!... LOL

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    Where I ride no one is making trail smooth, straight maybe for Strava segments!... LOL
    Max and I live in a city of 1.5 million people, with a metropolitan area of over 5 million. a good deal of the local mountain biking happens in just one place: The Wissahickon Gorge, which is also where a majority of urban hiking and horseback riding happens, too. The trails are under a tremendous amount of pressure from all sides and having stravatards on e-bikes is simply more than our local system can accommodate.

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    I understand...
    ...if you loose Wis you loose it all

    I think you guys can educate others on these non scary monsters. Believe me e-bikes aren't even close to motos. Heck a Honda XR 80 is faster. You have the point of the e bike has "pedals" has to be "pedaled" to go.

    Once the word gets out others who are new to e-bikes will see the light. I'm sure you don't have motos running around the Wis? Do you? Lots of people are watching there. Good and bad as one stupid moron flying around on an e could open a can of worms. Buit same can be said for a regular mt biker who has no respect for others. Have you seen any e -bikes at the Wis?

    Your right too much traffic there. Let's see what happens at Allegrippis. That will be interesting, and maybe that can be used as an example of where e bikes shouldn't be allowed. I can't imagine taking my Levo to Allegrippis. My Stumpy flys that place faster than I want to go!

    Guys thanks for being respectful and having a decent conversation here on mtbr about your local problems with e-bikes.

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    e-bikes may not be anywhere near the same as motos, but they are in fact *motorized* so "conservative" land managers may just not want them - not caring to take the time to understand them.

    Heck, wasn't it just this year (2016) when some major land managers (*cough* US DOI *cough*) finally recognized traditional pedal-only mountain bikes were not the same as motos?

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    yeah and thanks for your respectful words. there are definitely places where ebikes can live in harmony with everyone we just need to be careful before we open the floodgates.

    The bigger problem i see is letting anything with a motor into already over-crowded parks in areas near large population centers.

    Personally I am not thrilled about ebikes on the already crowded multi-use paths and city streets either (if i delivered pizzas by bike i'd probably feel different)... BUT imho; there definitely need to be places where human powered activity is the only form allowed. Especially around cities where people mainly use the parks to get away from all the city crap.

    i'd love to head up the to the mountains and rip around on some e-bikes one day. personally i'd LOVE to see what they feel like on some real trails.

    does allegrippis allow ebikes? that is exactly the type of spot i could see them being kinda problematic maybe; but maybe not???

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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    does allegrippis allow ebikes? that is exactly the type of spot i could see them being kinda problematic maybe; but maybe not???
    I'm not aware of any specific exclusion for e-bikes, but I'd suggest contacting the Friends of Raystown Lake (Contact) who have the contract with the Army Corps to manage the trails, and ask.

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    I could only imagine as I have done on the past contacting a gov agency. They have no idea of what I'm talking about. Even when I tell them the Levo was designed to fit the Pedal Assist Bicycle (PAB) standards. I hear the supervisor in the background yelling "NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES" or No Motorcycles. As I usually respond" Hey DUMB ASS you don't know your job! Lots of people should be fired for not knowing their job, but that's another story for later down the road.

    Once again I don't think I would be into flying around at Raystown. I mean don't get me wrong, not scared of the speed just killing other riders wouldn't be nice! I would use 10 or 20 percent boost just to make it easier for me to get up hills in respect for others. There is no advantage to boost on downhill, after 20 mph you exceed the boost. At that point your riding a 50 pound missle downhill and handling doesn't come with a throttle to "pin it" to get outta trouble!

    Max come on up for a ride sometime, check out some trails up here and bring your mt bike too. Then you can demo a Levo if you want with me!

    Here's some BS
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

    Pedal-assisted bicycles and the Law ? Electric Bike Action

  20. #20
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    With the way Raystown is built you only have to pedal up about 15% or 20% of the up-slopes anyway, if you are confident enough to no over-brake yourself to begin with.

    It's surprising how much momentum you can build and conserve.

  21. #21
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    I "am" Momentum! LOL

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    I "am" Momentum! LOL
    ... maybe I'm 3/4 Momentum then? All I know is a tore a spoke through a rim the last time I rode a HT at Raystown.

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    raystown has flow for days; it is one of the most singlespeed friendly places ever. couple little climbs but mostly it just flows. i don't see why you'd want an e-bike there but i was just curious if it was allowed since that is probably one of the most popular non-urban trails in the state.

    basically; i'd like to know if any parks with lots of users have allowed ebikes and too see what the outcome has been so far.

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    I'm appreciative that NEPMTBA realizes that what works in NEPA where relatively few people mountain bike and are dispersed over far more miles of trail overall in that region will NOT work in smaller parks close/in the densely-populated Philly metro area with far larger numbers of users on multipurpose trails.

    As for proposing to educate riders, (for instance, here in SE PA) how to operate them appropriately, yeah right. We have too many inconsiderate riders on too few trail miles down here as it is. Add e-bikes to that mix in my area? Not good.

    I have nothing against e-bikes in places appropriate for them based on degree of trail use/overuse, trail design, local input, etc. Good for them if it's far enough out in the boonies to raise few objections. There's room for everyone if it's planned properly so have fun with it up there in Lackawanna.

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    I wish you guys knew me better in person...
    ...I ride moto, but I never ride them where they don't belong.

    Same goes for e-bikes for me. Of course I want to see them allowed where the fun can be had, but I'm not after wrecking trails I helped build and fix. And so goes for trails I don't work on or maintain. I wouldn't think of riding destructive toys where they would ruin the pleasures of others.

    This is one of the best threads concerning e-bikes on mtbr and it is in the "Pa" forum. If you have ever visited the E-bike forums lots of fighting and bickering. You guys are great. Everyone here has expressed their personal opinions about e's but also gave real reasons why or why not you feel the way you do.

    Thanks pleasure talking with all of ya...
    ...and you know your always invited to come on up and share in ride e bike or other wise!

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    One note: As I speak, I speak of the "Specialized Turo Levo e bike" and no others as I have been told the Levo is legal for state park trail use in Pa. I haven't been told or shown that other companies have complied and/or built their products to follow these Pa state park rules for use:

    The rule:
    Bicycle product Suppliers Association (BPSA)
    1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal

    -assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle

    equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that

    ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.


    Sorry for the disclaimer...
    ...back to discussion

    On my point about Raystown...

    ... I assume I have more hours riding an e bike than anyone here and some of you haven't even ridden one. Not a bad thing, but you are all correct saying singlespeeds and other bikes can conquer the hills if you use momentum and gear accordingly. My point is an e bike has the capability of doing what human powered bicycles (HPB) can only dream of. The e with the boost on 100 percent will fly up hills and over the top way faster than any HPB. In saying this the overall speed is greatly increased and the loop traveled can be done in a much faster time.

    In perspective to me having ridden motos all my life carrying "BIG" momentum over obstacles leads higher speeds everywhere. For me riding my Levo at Raystown I would only run 10 or 20 percent boost and ride "with" my friends rather than leave them in the dust. But there will be riders as there are now on HPBs who go for the max and the trails at Raystown already can't handle the speeds.

    Am I saying don't allow e bikes at Raystown? Hell no! But the reason Raystown is so much fun? Because it was designed to have maximum flow "for your efforts" The ebike takes that away big time.

    Since Raystown is an Army Corp of Engineers (ACOE) complex as is Prompton Dam State Park and "I assume" (I say that carefully) since Prompton Dam allows the Levo to be ridden there that Raystown might fall under the same category of allowing PASS level one e bikes.

    A note on this thread: I'm happy it has gone "off topic" and broadened into a whole intelligent conversation on riding e bikes everywhere in Pa.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    On my point about Raystown...

    ... I assume I have more hours riding an e bike than anyone here and some of you haven't even ridden one. Not a bad thing, but you are all correct saying singlespeeds and other bikes can conquer the hills if you use momentum and gear accordingly. My point is an e bike has the capability of doing what human powered bicycles (HPB) can only dream of. The e with the boost on 100 percent will fly up hills and over the top way faster than any HPB. In saying this the overall speed is greatly increased and the loop traveled can be done in a much faster time.

    In perspective to me having ridden motos all my life carrying "BIG" momentum over obstacles leads higher speeds everywhere. For me riding my Levo at Raystown I would only run 10 or 20 percent boost and ride "with" my friends rather than leave them in the dust. But there will be riders as there are now on HPBs who go for the max and the trails at Raystown already can't handle the speeds.

    Am I saying don't allow e bikes at Raystown? Hell no! But the reason Raystown is so much fun? Because it was designed to have maximum flow "for your efforts" The ebike takes that away big time.
    Here's the rub that you seem to be missing in your e-bike advocacy: For normally-abled riders, the thrill of riding in the woods is directly tied to doing it under your own power: cleaning a gnarly climb, embracing the suffering and the resultant endorphin kick that almost always follows. There are 3 climbs at the Wissahickon that I absolutely detest and I won't lie, I've longed for either a little boost getting up them at one time or another or a reroute to make the climbs more interesting, but that doesn't mean that I actually think about buying an e-bike to cheat my way up, that e-bikes should be allowed in the park or that I'm going to make a b-line on my own in order to get through a section that I otherwise couldn't. Yeah, they'd make those climbs easier, but ultimately, I ride for the exertion, for the challenge of pushing myself until i puke and my legs quiver, going a little further, then ride home in that state. For some reason, not only for me, but for most of the people I ride with, that is what makes the sport fun, knowing that there are hills and obstacles that I can't clean, yet engaging in the sisyphusean task until we ultimately prevail.

    To that end, an e-bike takes a physically demanding and mentally challenging activity and turns it into a prosaic ride in the park. It is the technological equivalent of building ramps to clean big rocks, removing roots from the trails and putting cutouts in log-overs. while I won't get into the ins and outs of making the sport more accessible for people with disabilities and the potential roles that e-bikes may play in that, to open up the trails to e-bikes for the general public, creates a myriad of issues, both real and potential and is directly related to dumbing down the trails, increasing speeds and along with it, user conflict. It is a slippery slope with the potential to cause great damage to our sport. Furthermore, it feeds into a growing sense of entitlement in our society for instant gratification, to get whatever we want right now, with out actually working for it.

    Yes, I have ridden an e-bike. It was both fun and a fun-killer; I am basing my opinions on that experience and am not merely a retrogrouch who is opposed to technology.
    Last edited by Gigantic; 11-07-2016 at 11:07 AM.

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    Giagantic,

    We get it you don't like e bikes! How do you know about e bikes? You said you only rode one for a short time and didn't like it. So how do you know what an e bike can do? You have no time on one yet you know how they ride? I think not!

    I have done all the aspects you speak of with HPBs my entire life many times over! In events and just out riding. I ride at the most difficult place I know of HGA where we look for the toughest stuff known to man and design it as not to ever be cleaned. Some sections can attest have never been cleaned, and the ones that have where only cleaned by J Gregorowicz a "National Pro Bike Trials Rider" We like it that way cause it is a huge challenge to us to try over and over to make it through. Cleaning a section means your good, but working at a section you can't clean means your teaching yourself a higher level of challenge.

    Maybe you should come ride with us and see just how I'm making a huge effort to ride a 50 pound e bike with new technology do things I want it to do. Pushing the envelope beyond the usual HPB as an Official E Test Pilot and having a heck of a lot of fun learning a total new realm of riding.

    Not the same ole same ole...
    ...now that challenging!

    I'm not asking you to ride an e bike, bring whatever your Giantic self has and come ride with us! I guarantee you will have fun and make new friends and get to ride some really cool, stuff. I love your passion! I could learn some moves from you too!

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    As someone who has been riding e bikes for over 3 yrs on every trail in many dif states I find my self no longer bombing down a down hill so I can carry my momentum up hill, nope no need too making e bikes slower = safer and now instead of riding head down pumping I sit up and count deer and enjoy the smells . If you was walking your dog on a downhill section of a MT bike trail which would you like to be passed by a reg mt biker carrying speed or a e biker picking his way down ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Here's the rub that you seem to be missing in your e-bike advocacy: For normally-abled riders, the thrill of riding in the woods is directly tied to doing it under your own power: cleaning a gnarly climb, embracing the suffering and the resultant endorphin kick that almost always follows. There are 3 climbs at the Wissahickon that I absolutely detest and I won't lie, I've longed for either a little boost getting up them at one time or another or a reroute to make the climbs more interesting, but that doesn't mean that I actually think about buying an e-bike to cheat my way up, that e-bikes should be allowed in the park or that I'm boing to make a b-line on my own, to get through a section that I otherwise couldn't. Yeah, they'd make those climbs easier, but ultimately, I ride for the exertion, for the challenge of pushing myself until i puke and my legs quiver, going a little further then ride home in that state. For some reason, not only for me, but for most of the people I ride with, that is what makes the sport fun, knowing that there are hills and obstacles that I can't clean, yet engaging in the sisyphusean task until we ultimately prevail.

    To that end, an e-bike takes a physically demanding and mentally challenging activity and turns it into a prosaic ride in the park. It is the technological equivalent of building ramps to clean big rocks, removing roots from the trails and putting cutouts in log-overs. while I won't get into the ins and outs of making the sport more accessible for people with disabilities and the potential roles that e-bikes may play in that, to open up the trails to e-bikes for the general public, creates a myriad of issues, both real and potential, is related to dumbing down the trails, increasing speeds and along with it, user conflict. It is a slippery slope with the potential to cause great damage to our sport. Furthermore, it feeds into a growing sense of entitlement in our society for instant gratification, to get whatever we want right now, with out actually working for it.

    Yes, I have ridden an e-bike. It was both fun and a fun-killer; I am basing my opinions on that experience and am not merely a retrogrouch who is opposed to technology.

    This post is by far the most succinct commentary on e-bikes that I have read.

    I absolutely could not agree more, or say it any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    As someone who has been riding e bikes for over 3 yrs on every trail in many dif states I find my self no longer bombing down a down hill so I can carry my momentum up hill, nope no need too making e bikes slower = safer and now instead of riding head down pumping I sit up and count deer and enjoy the smells . If you was walking your dog on a downhill section of a MT bike trail which would you like to be passed by a reg mt biker carrying speed or a e biker picking his way down ??
    This has to be one of the worst arguments for E-bikes that I have ever seen...

    From what I can remember you used to also post in the E-bike forums about knowing you were poaching non motorized trails because you did not believe it was fair to be excluded. For a period of time you were the living example of what everyone was concerned about... blatantly riding on non motorized trails!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    One note: As I speak, I speak of the "Specialized Turo Levo e bike" and no others as I have been told the Levo is legal for state park trail use in Pa. I haven't been told or shown that other companies have complied and/or built their products to follow these Pa state park rules for use:

    The rule:
    Bicycle product Suppliers Association (BPSA)
    1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal

    -assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle

    equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that

    ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

    What? The levo isn't unique, there's like 50 different models of emtbs that fit the class 1 definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrack29er View Post
    This has to be one of the worst arguments for E-bikes that I have ever seen...

    From what I can remember you used to also post in the E-bike forums about knowing you were poaching non motorized trails because you did not believe it was fair to be excluded. For a period of time you were the living example of what everyone was concerned about... blatantly riding on non motorized trails!
    You for got that I also stop and poach some elec from the Pub to recharge my bike for the ride home, after I have been enjoying the trails the same trail that I have been riding since the 80s . On the same land that my company I am retired from donated the land for the now city MT bike park , which makes you the maddest that I ride a e bike ? or the fact I am handicap and need a e bike to ride ??

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    So back to "My thread of goodness" about e bikes!

    Having a Stumpy to compare to the Levo and riding them back to back the other day on the same loop.

    Parameters both bikes:

    Same loop
    Same rider
    I rode with as close as the same technique as possible, meaning I didn't try to horse or power one bike more then the other. Very rocky terrain with trials type traps!(Mr. B the land owner will verify if necessary)

    Results:
    Levo was ridden in 20 percent boost throughout the test.
    Stumpy was ridden first:

    Being lighter and more nimble the Stumpy jumped at the chance to get over and through stuff. The lighter Stumpy gathered rock gardens much easier with better flow. Staying on a line is two fold. the Stumpy is easier to wiggle around tight stuff, whereas the Levo takes a more direct approach and having to pedal to get power straightens the bike out more. Not a bad thing, as it imitates dragging a brake to hold tension in the frame in a single line tight spot. The Levo feels more stable and grounded in under the rider.

    Where the trail opens up and is less techy both bikes hold their lines and perform similar. The added weight of the Levo goes away at speed as does the boost. I didn't over pedal the Levo and stayed within the boost format. I can say the Levo has a lower center of gravity and therefore swoops turns better, but the added weight ahs much to do with that also.

    On a note taken into consideration: The Stupmy has a higher grade of suspension than the Levo.

    So just my results, unofficial, and maybe they can help others to negotiate the design features in both bikes.

    More to come!

  35. #35
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    How does the electric motor determine speed? Is it like the old magnet based speed sensor connected to the motor somehow?
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    You for got that I also stop and poach some elec from the Pub to recharge my bike for the ride home, after I have been enjoying the trails the same trail that I have been riding since the 80s . On the same land that my company I am retired from donated the land for the now city MT bike park , which makes you the maddest that I ride a e bike ? or the fact I am handicap and need a e bike to ride ??
    Ignorance is bliss, from the countless threads where you mention the rules do not apply for you... pedal on my friend

  37. #37
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    The Levo has a wheel sensor, and a torque sensor that determines movement. Pedal and it activates the motor assisting, coast and assist drops off. Interesting if you spin the pedal really fast above 20mph the assist drops off also. So it forces you to stay in the range and pedal all the time. This can a bit of challenge as you can't move around on the bike as well. Basically you do more sitting due to the fact pedalling keeps the assist engaged.

    I have learned to what they call in Motocross "Seat Bounce" over rocks and bumps. Not that I don't stand on hills but the transition from sitting to standing takes more consideration as to where I am in the range of the assist.

    Don't get me wrong I'm really giving a detailed description of my riding. They are fun and everyone who rides one will develop their own ways to ride.

  38. #38
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    We've had a guy show up for a few rides this year on an e-bike. One of the Haibike models, can't remember which one.

    Anyways, he's not tearing up the trails or going crazy fast because of the assist. He's slow on the downhills and the assist gets him moving faster on the climbs and flats that he ends up over his head and crashing fairly often.

    In motorcycling I've heard this expression that we all start out with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The goal is to fill your experience bag before you run out of luck. It seems that in the case of this one particular fellow that his e-bike is also assisting him to drain his bag of luck rather quickly.

    I do fear like others that land access could be at risk. But the reason that I dislike e-bikes the most is that those that ride them think they're out riding and participating in the same hobby as us. I'm sorry, but if we both aren't keeled over our handlebars at the top of a climb or dead tired at the end of the ride, then you lost out on part of the experience and we don't have much common ground.

    It's like if we go to an amusement park and I ride the water ride while you watched then you want to talk about how much fun it was.

  39. #39
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    Why do you feel your experience is the norm, I can feel the same way on an e -assist bike. I can go up a hill faster and have an experience where I can say I'm outta breath from the speed I was riding up the same hill where me on my HPB just can't obtain. I still have to pedal to get up the hill, only my speed and torque will get me there quicker, and more so if I coast a bit the weight of the bike overcomes the momentum very quickly.

    So we can divide it up into more categories, does that mean guys on Human Powered Bikes(HPB)who use gears are cheating? Or the guy on the full squish bike isn't as good a rider as a rigid guy?

    Hum, I think not, so why are e assist bikes counted out. Remember when these catch on the tide might change and they the e assist guys might be saying "Oh man these pedal guys are always in the way and so slow get them off the trails"

    I look at both point and all the spaces in between.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    Why do you feel your experience is the norm, I can feel the same way on an e -assist bike. I can go up a hill faster and have an experience where I can say I'm outta breath from the speed I was riding up the same hill where me on my HPB just can't obtain. I still have to pedal to get up the hill, only my speed and torque will get me there quicker, and more so if I coast a bit the weight of the bike overcomes the momentum very quickly.
    From my understanding of the bike assisting, it seems that in pedaling to assist the motor you are riding at a higher speed, with less effort than that of a non-assisted bike at a lower speed.

  41. #41
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    You are correct you can't increase the boost by pedaling faster. You will only make yourself more tired. Learning where the boost works best, and the gear your in as to the terrain you are riding is the key.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    why are e assist bikes counted out.
    After seeing hundreds of times that the MOTOR is the incredibly obvious difference, you are still asking this same question? Seriously?
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    I keep hearing how e-bikes are great and wonderful because they'll allow physically handicapped people to enjoy mountain biking, but yet I only see them being used by people who have decided that pedaling is too much work.

    Yes, we all understand that having a MOTOR will allow you to go faster and further. Someone figured that out well over a hundred years ago.

    also, i don't think your cute little acronym, HPB, is necessary. We are riding bicycles, you are on a moped.

  44. #44
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    Don't feed the attention whoring troll, guys. Just let this thread die and throw a stick in his spokes if you see his moped riding on your local trails.

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    The OP was about e bikes now legal in the St park like every post you want to hate on the e bikers and once again you e haters have encouraged other members to do harm to another Mt biker . understanding the type of person you are the moderator should act .

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    ...understanding the type of person you are the moderator should act ...
    Entertaining conflict of interest, that right there, considering one side of the discussion is a Mod.

    Sometimes I really need to have virtual popcorn handy to assist with watching these discussions play out. ;^)

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    After seeing hundreds of times that the MOTOR is the incredibly obvious difference, you are still asking this same question? Seriously?
    So where I live the state park now allows them, and there will be more down the road.

    Your it has a MOTOR argument is null...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Don't feed the attention whoring troll, guys. Just let this thread die and throw a stick in his spokes if you see his moped riding on your local trails.
    This thread will never die...
    ...so Gigantic since you didn't take me up on my offer to come up here and ride. I have a different offer. A friend of mine asked me if he could borrow my Levo to ride the Wiss this weekend. What should I tell him or would you like to show him around your trails?

  49. #49
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    Back to the fun...

    I had a chance to visit other places with the Levo. First location the trails were leaf covered and smooth S/T. Very fast long straights and flat turns. After making a loop or two I decided to reverse directions. Looking at the trail a different way. Having ridden this same trails years before with the Human Powered Bicycles(HPBs) I was used to the flow, but the Levo really adds to the flow. Not so much due to the boost cause I was only using 20 percent, but more so to the constant pedalling the Levo requires me to do.

    Location two was totally different. Fast, DH, S/T flowy berms, with short steep ups. Again 20 percent was the starting choice. Having berms really helps as the Levo can set in and run out as of course any bike can do. I would say the plus tires have much to do with this and not the e of the ebike. As with any trail that changes elevation more shifting required. Trying to run the hardest gear just made the Levo slow and clunky. So I chose 50 percent boost. This was a whole new spread now the power remained pulling hard. Hills became much easier. Good stuff yes, but not having to work at it wasn't as much fun. I went back to 20 percent.

    Along with me was a friend who has ridden with me all my life. He was on a FatBoy and he and I were both outta breath after a lap. He commented I couldn't pull away from him anywhere. It was as if I was on a HPB.

    So much can be said and no results are perfect. Basically the Levo is just another toy to play with. Some plus points, some negative points. But hey that's what learning is all about.

    Glad I could share with all of you...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    So where I live the state park now allows them, and there will be more down the road.

    Your it has a MOTOR argument is null...
    it wasn't an 'argument' and had nothing to do with your local state park.

    It was a direct response to a stupid question that's already been answered countless times.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    it wasn't an 'argument' and had nothing to do with your local state park.

    It was a direct response to a stupid question that's already been answered countless times.
    lol

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    This thread will never die...
    ...so Gigantic since you didn't take me up on my offer to come up here and ride. I have a different offer. A friend of mine asked me if he could borrow my Levo to ride the Wiss this weekend. What should I tell him or would you like to show him around your trails?
    Kicking the hornets nest there Bub. Leaving it at that.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Kicking the hornets nest there Bub. Leaving it at that.
    Hows that? Let's see? First off, I posted this directly to Gigantic to get his personal feelings. He and I have an ongoing conversation here. I'm glad you responded, but I await "his" response.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Don't feed the attention whoring troll, guys. Just let this thread die and throw a stick in his spokes if you see his moped riding on your local trails.
    I am concerned. And would like to ask "who" were you referring to with your off color comment?

    To update: This thread is about e bikes and talk of positive, truthful representation, if negative examples have happened concerning e bikes, by all means report them with proof of your expressions.

    My opinion of your "post" is trolling and to incite harm to others. Maybe you should look at the rules of the forums here on mtbr:

    Mtbr Posting Guidelines

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    I am concerned. And would like to ask "who" were you referring to with your off color comment?

    To update: This thread is about e bikes and talk of positive, truthful representation, if negative examples have happened concerning e bikes, by all means report them with proof of your expressions.

    My opinion of your "post" is trolling and to incite harm to others. Maybe you should look at the rules of the forums here on mtbr:

    Mtbr Posting Guidelines
    C'mon NEPMTBA. You *HAVE* to know from Gigantic's earlier posts what his response to you question about loaning your ebike to a friend to ride Wiss would be. Asking a question to get a rise out of somebody else on the internet is the textbook definition of trolling.

    It's a different world down here in terms of trail access and usage, amplified to 11 in the Wiss. Please don't bring your ebike, or lend it to your friends, to ride Wiss. If you're truly interested in riding it in SEPA, PM me about other smaller, less conflicted trail networks.

    Gigantic - thanks for your restraint, and the work you're doing on Cresheim this weekend. Also, sorry for this feeding, but I felt I needed to answer the question directed to you as an occasional Wiss rider.

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    No offense to NEPMTBA's e-bike advocacy or wrc2006's invite to him but IMHO most truly-legit "smaller" mountain bike-friendly trail systems here in Southeast PA get heavy-enough usage from multiple different types of user groups that they really don't need e-bike usage being encouraged.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clayncedar View Post
    No offense to NEPMTBA's e-bike advocacy or wrc2006's invite to him but IMHO most truly-legit "smaller" mountain bike-friendly trail systems here in Southeast PA get heavy-enough usage from multiple different types of user groups that they really don't need e-bike usage being encouraged.
    None taken on my part.
    The closest "legit" system near me gets little non-mtb use, and I frequently see kids on small dirt bikes and quads. It's a much shorter loop than Wiss, but has a similar feel.

  58. #58
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    I appreciate your responses. The e bike thing isn't the big scary monster. Most of the riders I see and talk with who are riding "e"s now are still mt bikers at heart and they have all the concerns we all do about trails and use. No one wants anyone to be shut out anywhere.

    I have yet to see any crazy high speed e bike anywhere, not saying it won't or can't happen. We all know or have heard the Schuylkill expressway is overcrowded, and still there are nuts who have to try to take control of all the drivers and perform the old "Get outta my way crazy driving stunts" I have traveled that route many times and never had a problem, as I drive with respect and stay alert.

    So be it, will there be crazy e bikers? Sure, but there will be many more who are just like you and me and have respect for others and also for the trails.

    Thanks for the op to ride your part of the world, and would be honored to ride more places and see more trails. I'm glad you feel you can be friendly and we can bring the Levos to trails you recommend. This on your part is fantastic as it a step in advocacy and helping work out the kinks, and show the e bikes are pretty tame rides.
    Last edited by NEPMTBA; 11-21-2016 at 08:26 AM.

  59. #59
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    Snow with the Levo...
    ...this past weekend.

    Hitting up the upstate Pa section near the NY border this weekend. The Levo provides lots of traction based on the underlying terrain, aka ruts round boulders and so on. The snow was a mere 2 inches. It rides very similar to the Stumpy with the difference being having to always pedal to propel makes for a new learning curve. Trying to hold traction with pedal as on a regular pedal bike goes away fast with the Levo. Wheel spin will happen, but that can also be a blessing as the power remains for second and getting balance at that time is aided by that fact. The added power can redirect the rear wheel into ruts and tends to hop and slop over goonies.

    It also wanted to drive the front wheel across the apex of slippy turns remedied by dropping the front tire pressure 2 pounds, and adding 10 psi to the rear shock. Two clicks in on the rebound and all was back in order. Not having to think about higher speed riding with the slippy snow these changes are only for this day of riding. Going back as soon as the traction and drier trails arrive. It is nice to know the suspension does respond to these changes. A plus for most modern day mt bike suspension systems.

    Battery and motor acted the same as in warmed temps. I didn't actually measure, but I felt I had the same range as before.

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