Pennsylvania Game Commission Permit Proposal- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    44

    Pennsylvania Game Commission Permit Proposal

    Anyone see this email that came out? Thoughts?




    PA Game Commission Lands Permit Proposal
    Deadline to submit comments isSeptember 22!
    You can submit your comments to [email protected]. Comments also can be mailed to the Game Commission. Address the envelope ATTN: Game Lands Permit, Pennsylvania Game Commission, 2001 Elmerton Avenue, Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797
    Pennsylvania Game Commission Permit Proposal
    The Pennsylvania Game Commission is proposing a $30 permit fee for trail users that only include mountain bikers, equestrian and snowmobilerson the lands they manage.
    The proposal as it exists needs to be revised or reconsidered and you can be a part of this change!
    How to Engage
    Use the talking points below to help convey your message.
    Submit your comments to the Game Commission by the September 22 deadline.
    Talking Points

    1. The propoasl fails to consider the potential liability concerns of removing Pennsylvania Game Commission from the protection of Pennsylvania’s Recreational Use of Land and Water Act. Charging the fee could potentially eliminate immunity given to land managers who control undeveloped lands.
    2. Numerous studies show that mountain biking doesn't disturb the environment any more than hiking. The current proposal and news release doesn't cite any specific study to substantiate their claim that mountain bikers have the same trail impacts as horses and snowmobiles.
    3. The PGC should actively engage IMBA chapters and clubs to help with trail management to reduce maintenance costs. Pennsylvania chapters and clubs volunteer thousands of hours each year assisting land managers with trail maintenance.



    Respectfully,


    Anthony Duncan
    Mid-Atlantic Region Director
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pennsylvania Game Commission Permit Proposal-19-sep-14-10-00-52.jpg  


  2. #2
    Hermit
    Reputation: swampboy62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    988
    It's a dumb idea thought up by a bunch of short-sighted bureaucrats. Ludicrous.

    But are there really any SGL trails that real mtbrs ride in PA? I certainly can't think of any in the western part of the state.

    Steve Z
    Pedaling when it's dry
    And paddling when it's wet

    My insignificant blog:
    http://swampboy62.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    44

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: InvictaS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,878
    Plenty of places in PA to ride. Let the hunters have their SGLs, they paid for em.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DethWshBkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,291
    I still want to see what a "designated trail" is. If they are talking fire roads, screw em.

    I like how they have started to change their wording now. They are now saying "Primarily paid for" with hunters fees, as they do NOT own the land, nor do they pay for it exclusively.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    65
    examples...
    Blue Marsh
    Lake Border Trail Mountain Bike Trail, Spring Ridge, PA
    Parts of Rattlin Creek might be on SGL
    PA*DCNR*-*Weiser Maps

    I'd be careful letting a foot in the door.

  7. #7
    The White Jeff W
    Reputation: jeffw-13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,625
    Quote Originally Posted by swampboy62 View Post
    It's a dumb idea thought up by a bunch of short-sighted bureaucrats. Ludicrous.

    But are there really any SGL trails that real mtbrs ride in PA? I certainly can't think of any in the western part of the state.

    Steve Z
    Pretty sure Bavington is on SGL, Steve. Yep, #432

    I posted in another thread about this that right now most riders only ride the SGL on Sunday's during hunting season as a courtesy to hunters. If cyclists are made to pay for a permit then that 's over, putting riders in the woods with pissed off hunters with big guns.
    No moss...

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    28

  9. #9
    my church is the woods
    Reputation: moonraker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,068
    I wanted so much to take my bike to the comment period at the public comment hearing on the 9/22 and just ride it around inside the room quietly during my 5 minutes, and ask them to explain all the damage I just did, and if that damage was more akin to what a hiker would do, or a horse, or a snowmobile? And then why my bike is in the same category as the latter 2...

    So supposedly there was a "study" done this summer where the PGC looked at all the "damage"....although this "study" has yet to be released, and the agency has little to no oversight....so just take their word, because they wouldn't make up stuff to suit their agenda of getting more of our money, right? Hikers and bicycle riders take NOTHING from the land leaving it as is, unlike the hunters, miners, oil and gas frackers who are pay to play because they remove natural resources and must be regulated.
    Meanwhile, many real studies have been done that show bicycling has almost identical impact to hiking. Water causes erosion. And horses have a much bigger impact, especially on soft tread.
    And motorized conveyances....well they have already authorize them to drive all over game lands to harvest timber, mine coal, and extract other resources like oil and gas leases which bring in over $30 million to the PGC. Yet these same areas the PGC posts "foot travel only" signs where they drive 10 ton trucks, but you are a criminal if you ride a bicycle because they claim it causes destruction of wildlife habitat. I call BS!
    Yes, hunters are primary users of game lands, and everyone should stay off during hunting season, but the rest of the year? Can't this 1.5 million acres have a few singletrack trails for the small group of hiking and bicycling enthusiast to get out and enjoy our Penns Woods too? The "designated routes" the PGC has approved amount to the stone covered 12" wide logging roads, yet they call them"trails" and claim to spend $320,000 to maintain these "trails" for recreational use.
    If this wildlife habitat is so fragile, and hikers and bicycles have the same impact, shouldn't the PGC be in favor of keeping everyone off the game lands? Or at the very least, place bicycles in the same category as hikers, not with horses and motor vehicles, when it comes time to make these policies.

    Repeat: There is no environmental damage or habitat destruction happening from bicycle riders, it's a farce!

  10. #10
    Ride da mOOn Moderator
    Reputation: NEPMTBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8,448
    Agreed...

    ... and it is ironic as one story I have read on a hiker doing his thing hiking only to come across a 50 foot wide swath of gasline running for miles and miles.

  11. #11
    .
    Reputation: jonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by moonraker View Post
    I wanted so much to take my bike to the comment period at the public comment hearing on the 9/22 and just ride it around inside the room quietly during my 5 minutes, and ask them to explain all the damage I just did, and if that damage was more akin to what a hiker would do, or a horse, or a snowmobile? And then why my bike is in the same category as the latter 2...

    So supposedly there was a "study" done this summer where the PGC looked at all the "damage"....although this "study" has yet to be released, and the agency has little to no oversight....so just take their word, because they wouldn't make up stuff to suit their agenda of getting more of our money, right? Hikers and bicycle riders take NOTHING from the land leaving it as is, unlike the hunters, miners, oil and gas frackers who are pay to play because they remove natural resources and must be regulated.
    Meanwhile, many real studies have been done that show bicycling has almost identical impact to hiking. Water causes erosion. And horses have a much bigger impact, especially on soft tread.
    And motorized conveyances....well they have already authorize them to drive all over game lands to harvest timber, mine coal, and extract other resources like oil and gas leases which bring in over $30 million to the PGC. Yet these same areas the PGC posts "foot travel only" signs where they drive 10 ton trucks, but you are a criminal if you ride a bicycle because they claim it causes destruction of wildlife habitat. I call BS!
    Yes, hunters are primary users of game lands, and everyone should stay off during hunting season, but the rest of the year? Can't this 1.5 million acres have a few singletrack trails for the small group of hiking and bicycling enthusiast to get out and enjoy our Penns Woods too? The "designated routes" the PGC has approved amount to the stone covered 12" wide logging roads, yet they call them"trails" and claim to spend $320,000 to maintain these "trails" for recreational use.
    If this wildlife habitat is so fragile, and hikers and bicycles have the same impact, shouldn't the PGC be in favor of keeping everyone off the game lands? Or at the very least, place bicycles in the same category as hikers, not with horses and motor vehicles, when it comes time to make these policies.

    Repeat: There is no environmental damage or habitat destruction happening from bicycle riders, it's a farce!
    ^Well that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

  12. #12
    my church is the woods
    Reputation: moonraker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,068
    Did you know the number of hunters in Pennsylvania has dropped by 25% in the last 30 years? But the sale of Arms and Ammunition has increases the past few years (because Obama's coming to take yer guns!) The PGC gets $11 million a year from Pittman_Robertson funds from an 11% federal excise tax on sporting arms, ammunition, and archery equipment, and a 10% tax on handguns. The PGC needs matching funds of their own in order to receive the full P_R funds.....thus the proposed "user fee" and the manufactured reasons for imposing it on non-takers like mountain bikers.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,148
    Quote Originally Posted by moonraker View Post
    Did you know the number of hunters in Pennsylvania has dropped by 25% in the last 30 years? But the sale of Arms and Ammunition has increases the past few years (because Obama's coming to take yer guns!) The PGC gets $11 million a year from Pittman_Robertson funds from an 11% federal excise tax on sporting arms, ammunition, and archery equipment, and a 10% tax on handguns. The PGC needs matching funds of their own in order to receive the full P_R funds.....thus the proposed "user fee" and the manufactured reasons for imposing it on non-takers like mountain bikers.
    All fantastic points. Do you have a link with this hard data and numbers on the figures? That would be very helpful. Thanks!

  14. #14
    my church is the woods
    Reputation: moonraker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by pointerDixie214 View Post
    All fantastic points. Do you have a link with this hard data and numbers on the figures? That would be very helpful. Thanks!
    The PGC's own annual reports are here Reports And Minutes
    That will confirm the budget numbers for anyone who cares to look into it.

    The 25% drop has been reported by the PGC themselves, ABC 27 just did another report on it Amid dwindling numbers, Pa. launches new Go Hunt campaign - abc27 WHTM

  15. #15
    my church is the woods
    Reputation: moonraker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,068
    btw, I am certainly not anti-hunting. I love the outdoors and our state game lands and appreciate the funding hunters provide to keep these places undeveloped. In fact, this whole issue has raised my awareness. I took action today by registering for the education course and look forward to getting my hunting license in order to contribute and hopefully fill my freezer with deer bologna and jerky this season.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: huckxc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    58
    Let's protest....let's have organized rides on several SCL tracks across Pa on the first day of archery.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    132
    Thats probably not a good idea. Arrows hurt.
    Salsa El Mariachi SS
    Salsa Vaya
    Lurch Fatbike

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: huckxc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    58
    798....huh?
    How do you like all the gas bashing going on here?

  19. #19
    my church is the woods
    Reputation: moonraker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by huckxc View Post
    798....huh?
    How do you like all the gas bashing going on here?
    What Where?

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone have a CCW permit?
    By BigCiX in forum Off Camber (off topic)
    Replies: 372
    Last Post: 10-08-2014, 03:41 PM
  2. Replies: 46
    Last Post: 08-26-2014, 03:00 PM
  3. What puts a rigid, ss out of commission?
    By Jnthomps08 in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 06-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-19-2011, 01:15 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.