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  1. #1
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    Northern Michaux

    Every time I ride in Northern Michaux ,west of 233, I find what seems to be new trails.
    I was wondering who is doing the work and do they need help? The mbm blogspot does not seem to have any info regarding trail work. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

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    i was wondering the same thing. I was just up there today (on the East side of 233) and found a sweet mile long downhill (very technical) single track run. I have found about 4 miles of connecting single track but would love to find more in that area so i can make a nice loop with.

    I found a lot of would be trails that are not maintained, it didn't seem like it would take a lot of work to make them ridable.

  3. #3
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    I know JDel has been doing some work in Michaux when the weather suits. If I'm riding a trail and come across an area that needs work, I'll do some quick maintenance, but nothing major.
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    Hey J I'm not working right now. Drop me a line if you want a hand during the day.
    No moss...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDel
    Some of that work maybe from me..I would need to see pics to tell..I was just up there today working on some drainage issues near woodrow road on a trail that is over-grown that runs along the water. If u turn down woodrow road the trail dumps out on the left by the bridge..Im gonna be putting in some ladder bridges sometime next week..
    Ladder Bridges? You mean corduroy? Like a bunch of sticks/small logs laid side by side perpendicular to the trail?

    How's your stuff higher up the ridge coming?

    And are you ever going to come out for a ride?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark
    Every time I ride in Northern Michaux ,west of 233, I find what seems to be new trails.
    I was wondering who is doing the work and do they need help? The mbm blogspot does not seem to have any info regarding trail work. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
    Maybe. You have my email, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewoakman
    i was wondering the same thing. I was just up there today (on the East side of 233) and found a sweet mile long downhill (very technical) single track run. I have found about 4 miles of connecting single track but would love to find more in that area so i can make a nice loop with.

    I found a lot of would be trails that are not maintained, it didn't seem like it would take a lot of work to make them ridable.
    All depends what you're talking about. In Michaux, something that looks unmaintained may actually be the way the trail was intended. Lots of logs and rocks and whatnot are left in place and "unbuilt" and they are ridden by most people.

    What do you mean by rideable? There are 2-ft high unramped logs on some trails that ridden by a lot of people.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    What do you mean by rideable? There are 2-ft high unramped logs on some trails that ridden by a lot of people.
    If by rideable you mean-"plowed into ungracefully", then yes I "ride" those types of trails. Haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    If by rideable you mean-"plowed into ungracefully", then yes I "ride" those types of trails. Haha.

    C'mon, man, you're big enough to pull that front wheel up and over!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    C'mon, man, you're big enough to pull that front wheel up and over!
    Front wheel-no problem. It's when the rear wheel/chainring come smashing into it that I wish I didn't weigh 260+. Haha.

    Or that I had a 29er.
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  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Looking good. Let me know if u need a hand.

    Do u have any pictures of your recent work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    All depends what you're talking about. In Michaux, something that looks unmaintained may actually be the way the trail was intended. Lots of logs and rocks and whatnot are left in place and "unbuilt" and they are ridden by most people.

    What do you mean by rideable? There are 2-ft high unramped logs on some trails that ridden by a lot of people.

    The single track I saw that needed work was just overgrown, you can tell these trails haven't been ridden in a while. I am one of the people who love the logs and rocks, that why i ride a Michaux.
    Last edited by ewoakman; 03-18-2009 at 07:39 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Looking good. Let me know if u need a hand.

    Do u have any pictures of your recent work?
    Ill have to dig some up..I just now saw your message sorry was painting all day..
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    C'mon, man, you're big enough to pull that front wheel up and over!

    Lug a couple weeks ago I was riding up near Pine Grove on my black Yeti & crossed paths with a fellow on a cream colored Inbred SS. We chatted briefly about trail conditions & went on our way. That you?
    No moss...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13
    Lug a couple weeks ago I was riding up near Pine Grove on my black Yeti & crossed paths with a fellow on a cream colored Inbred SS. We chatted briefly about trail conditions & went on our way. That you?
    Big or small guy?

    Big guy, it was me. Smaller guy, it was my friend. If he was by himself, it was probably my friend.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDel
    This is what im shooting for..




    The stuff higher up is coming along..Ive been spending alot more time on the lower stuff that is ridden more...When I get my trance at the end of the month i will DEF. be coming out for the rides. I keep swapping out parts and upgrading it..It doesnt have any race face left on it now just Bontrager..I cant wait. I feel like ill learn alot from u and the others that ride that area alot..
    JDel, as awesome as that stuff is . . . it's also the type of stuff that will most likely cause issues with the powers that be in the forest. Be careful about what you build. And where you build it. "Bridges" make the Man get squirrely. Down where you're talking about, I would actually advise against this because of the usage those trails get. We cna take this offline if you want.

    It's been so long, I thought you already had your Trance! Quit screwing with it and ride that thing!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewoakman
    The single track I saw that needed work was just overgrown, you can tell these trails haven't been ridden in a while. I am one of the people who love the logs and rocks, that why i ride a Michaux.
    Don't take offense, there's been some well-intentioned "maintenance" lately that has removed some very cool obstacles. Look up MBM--Mountain Bikers of Michaux. Best bet for getting involved. You'll see.
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    please don't turn Michaux into a freeride park.

    Michaux has a tradition of primitive style singletrack. It is a network of freeflowing, always evolving, follow bambi, sweet, tight, natural singletrack. If you're looking for doublewide, perfectly benched & manufactured IMBA approved trail, you're in the wrong place. Go to Lykens or Raystown if you need that fix.

    Please DO NOT build up log crossings or build rock ramps just because YOU can not clear the obstacle. Build your skillz, do not dumb down the trail.

    I'm seeing it more and more, simple 10" logs either being cut out, moved, or being pyramided to make it 'ridable'.

    DO NOT DUMB DOWN OUR TRAILS!!!!
    [/end rant]

    (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular,
    just ranting against a trend that I'm seeing....)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDel
    This is what im shooting for..




    The stuff higher up is coming along..Ive been spending alot more time on the lower stuff that is ridden more...When I get my trance at the end of the month i will DEF. be coming out for the rides. I keep swapping out parts and upgrading it..It doesnt have any race face left on it now just Bontrager..I cant wait. I feel like ill learn alot from u and the others that ride that area alot..
    neat pics, but something you should be aware of....believe it or not, mtn bikers are not the only user group in Michaux. Folks ride horses, folks hike, they run a moto dual sport event along with an enduro in the early fall. The area you're targeting, near the snowmobile bridge below the mudbank is an area locally referred to as the 'Nowhere Loop', it is heavily used by everyone.

    If you build these bridges, make sure they can accomodate all the other users, or you might end up w/ a bunch of pissed off equine types or trashed bridges once the motos rip thru....your best bet to 'maintain' those areas is to open up the drainage for the sippy holes and work on some rock armouring to create a trail bed.

    Or just use common sense and stay out of the low lying muddy and wet areas until things dry up a bit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    Big or small guy?

    Big guy, it was me. Smaller guy, it was my friend. If he was by himself, it was probably my friend.

    Smaller guy rockin' solo.
    No moss...

  23. #23
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    We just happen to have the same bike. We're cute like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    Don't take offense, there's been some well-intentioned "maintenance" lately that has removed some very cool obstacles. Look up MBM--Mountain Bikers of Michaux. Best bet for getting involved. You'll see.
    No offense taken. But trust me I am not doing any of the "maintenance" you talk about. I have ridden Michaux on and off for awhile but don't really know many of the loops except for the ATV trails and race loops, lately I have been trying to find stuff in the very northern sections of the forest, I have found some but I am sure there is more to be found. That is one of the reasons I like Michaux, you can pretty much wonder around and get "lost" without ever really being to far from civilization. Hopefully I am going to be riding more in the area this year, maybe I will run into some of the locals and they can show me around. I live in Camp Hill now so Michaux is my best option.
    I replied to this thread because I had the same question about who to contact about trail maintenance because I wanted to help out. I, like you are sensitive to land access issues because of situations like Lambs Gap (which is in my back yard). I know what ad hoc trail building can lead to.

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    I fought the PGC when that all went down. I know what you mean. Harrisburg area lost out big time in that debacle, between Lamb's Gap and Stoney Creek.

    MBM will be your best bet for knowing about impending trail work, even in the Northern sections. Might even see something posted by me.
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    Just signed up with the group online. I look forward to getting out to help

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    Good deal!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    We just happen to have the same bike. We're cute like that.

    nice. One of these days I'm gonna get out for another group ride with you guys.
    No moss...

  29. #29
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    Deep breath and count to ten.

    Just keep in mind that emotions/things can sometimes be misconstrued/mistaken on the net. Sometimes people can come across as rude even when not trying to be. I know, because I am one of those people. Lol.
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    JDel--email sent.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Deep breath and count to ten.

    Just keep in mind that emotions/things can sometimes be misconstrued/mistaken on the net. Sometimes people can come across as rude even when not trying to be. I know, because I am one of those people. Lol.
    Im more frustrated at the fact the he thinks my abilities cant handle the trails..To me that is a joke..And that my only goal is to dumb down trails Maybe I should just move out west I guess some people dont like change..Well that is unless it benefits them
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Deep breath and count to ten.

    Just keep in mind that emotions/things can sometimes be misconstrued/mistaken on the net. Sometimes people can come across as rude even when not trying to be. I know, because I am one of those people. Lol.
    Listen to the bouncer--or else he might have to take you out to the parking lot.
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  34. #34
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    Im just gonna put off the "ladders" until everyones opinions are considered more..This will give me more time to work on the single track sections by 233
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    Listen to the bouncer--or else he might have to take you out to the parking lot.
    Yeah, what he said! Lol.

    JDel, let me know if you need a hand with the singletrack. I may be able to sneak out there for a few hours, it appears there is some decent weather heading our way too.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Yeah, what he said! Lol.

    JDel, let me know if you need a hand with the singletrack. I may be able to sneak out there for a few hours, it appears there is some decent weather heading our way too.

    I would need to take horse steroids for 5 months to even consider That would be cool..Yea it looks like spring is in effect now we just wait for the april snow storm The single track Im talking about is that one that u and I posted pics alittle bit ago..
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  37. #37
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    By the dam?
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  38. #38
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    Nope the on when u go up the road by the general store past the camping area with the lot on the right
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  39. #39
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    Oh ok, off of Bendersville Road.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDel
    Dude if every time I post something up about trail building u always have something negative to say..If ur going to post "downers" than dont post..And im not dumbing down the trail for my own sake..U dont know my skills or my skill level at that..Ur assuming out the ass. Im sure you know what your talking about since your the most experienced rider our there.I dont care if u know where this and that trail are in the forest and that u personally think this is a bad idea. I have PERMISSION to do this..I spoke with the land manager and he is totally aware of the "ladders" there not big but not small and nowhere near hiking trails..They just help in the area that are low lying and take along time to drain..I told him I would send details before I build just to make sure there isnt something they would like changed..If u wanna pay for my gas to go to raystown than go ahead until then I WILL DO WHAT I PLEASE...And as for the horses I could care less if they cant go on the trails..Ive already blocked off many trail heads so they cant get in.And these "ladders" will and can handle to moto stuff.If u dont like what im building dont ride it..If it gets trashed oh well that just really shows what kinda people are out there in the forest
    dude, calm the **** down, read the last sentence of my post:

    "(and this isn't directed at anyone in particular,
    just ranting against a trend that I'm seeing....)"
    Now, if you wanna make this personal......When you broadcast on these webz your plans to build this ****, don't expect everyone to kiss your ass and pat you on the back for all the great work you're doing.

    YOU ARE NEW HERE! You admittedly barely know the trail network, and yet you know what needs to be done to 'fix it', to 'improve it." I'm just pointing out, in a purposely not so subtle way, that not everybody is cool with what you're posting here. It's not just me. Lots of folks lurk on this board, we see on the ground what's being done to some of our trails...tricky lines being altered, ridable logs being cut out, little handicap ramps being built. It makes some of us grumpy. I did not accuse you of these things, I'm just making a general statement about a disturbing trend we're seeing out in the forest of Michaux.

    I do have respect for your energy and gumption on these projects, I just question whether you've considered the big picture, considered all the other users out there, beyond your tightly focused view of 'your trails.' Your remarks about barricading trailheads and not giving a **** about equine access does little to promote harmony amongst the user groups....think about it.

  41. #41
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    Oh ok, off of Bendersville Road.
    Great trail! I stumbled on that one a couple weeks ago. Literally & figuratively.
    No moss...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomimcmillar
    dude, calm the **** down, read the last sentence of my post:



    Now, if you wanna make this personal......When you broadcast on these webz your plans to build this ****, don't expect everyone to kiss your ass and pat you on the back for all the great work you're doing.

    YOU ARE NEW HERE! You admittedly barely know the trail network, and yet you know what needs to be done to 'fix it', to 'improve it." I'm just pointing out, in a purposely not so subtle way, that not everybody is cool with what you're posting here. It's not just me. Lots of folks lurk on this board, we see on the ground what's being done to some of our trails...tricky lines being altered, ridable logs being cut out, little handicap ramps being built. It makes some of us grumpy. I did not accuse you of these things, I'm just making a general statement about a disturbing trend we're seeing out in the forest of Michaux.

    I do have respect for your energy and gumption on these projects, I just question whether you've considered the big picture, considered all the other users out there, beyond your tightly focused view of 'your trails.' Your remarks about barricading trailheads and not giving a **** about equine access does little to promote harmony amongst the user groups....think about it.
    Im not even going to respond to this again...Just dont come at me trying to say what my skills are and what they can handle..
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDel
    Im not even going to respond to this again...Just dont come at me trying to say what my skills are and what they can handle..
    or what?

    but seriously....here's my underlying concern:

    I read your posts about maintaining/constructing trail. I see you post pictures of constructed ladders that border on the edge of being what some might call 'stunts.' When I read your posts, they read: "I'm doing this....this is my project....here's what I'm fixing...."

    It doesn't read, beyond a footnote: "I'm working on a plan...I'm working to coordinate w/ DCNR....I'm coordinating these efforts with MBM....here's the date for our next workday"

    My concern is that, with you posting like this on these boards, someone, who hasn't read the previous post about you being in contact w/ DCNR or who isn't familiar w/ your background, will say to themselves...."well sh!t, if this Jdel dude is building that stuff, then it must be cool for me to build something here, or maybe there...."

    And next thing you know, we have a bunch of sketchy renegade **** being built. Stunts or whatever, which will catch the eye of DCNR. In turn, they probably won't be too happy about it, which will then create headaches for all of us who ride in Michaux.

    Right now, there is a very good relationship between cyclists and DCNR in Michaux. They're pretty easy going when it comes time for us to put on events, to layout routes for races and such. They have bigger issues to be concerned about, than what we're doing with our bikes. Personally, I'd like it to stay that way.

    I understand the good intentions, I'm just concerned about a potential snowball effect, and how that might affect all of us.

    Can you see where I'm coming from?

  44. #44
    Yung Wun Ho!!
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    For a grown man you sure are rude when it comes to somethings..No offense..But bringing my skill level into play when were talking about trail building is totally wrong on your part..I do understand where u are coming from..Ive sent numerous emails back and forth with the land manager of the area and he is TOTALLY aware of what im doing..I didnt know I had to make this public knowledge..No offense but u dont need to be part of a club to maintain trails..Maybe I read up alot on building and maintaining them..Ive built backwood bmx parks that to this day are still being used where I live.BY MANY KIDS.They were built about 11 years ago and ive only had to fix them acouple times over the years. They have "stunts" and to my knowledge only one person has broken anything on them .I understand that there are people that dont know what they are doing when it comes to trails and such..And just to let u know my father is a senior official in the DCNR..So if I have a concern I can ask him..And my uncle works for the D.E.P. (department of environmental protection) so if I feel that something might have an impact I ask him..Both have been at these positions for 25+ years so I know when they say something it is true or correct..So please dont come at me and act like I have no idea what im doing..If I really wanted to I could have letters written on my behalf from my uncle or father to the land managers of the area.. I do see where u are coming from but u need to know that im not some newb thats gonna mess up anything..Like I said in another post if u have any ideas or concerns about certain areas LMK..I work from home so I got tons of time to kill..I hope that this will be the last "negative" post between us..
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  45. #45

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    Work with Mountain Bikers of Michaux

    It has been brought to my attention that building trails in Michaux has been discussed on this board. This is neither the venue nor place to discuss trail construction.



    The information you post on here can and will be used as evidence if/when you are caught. Building ladders or wooden structures will do nothing but cause unneeded attention to mountain bikers and limit our access.



    Individuals that construct trails that are inappropriate or cause unneeded attention to the mountain bike community will be dealt with on an individual basis.



    People who fall into these parameters have and will experience the following:



    -Evidence will be collected (internet posts, photos taken of your car at the trailhead and possibly while your cutting in your trail)

    -A visit by Forestry and State police at their home or place of work

    -Fines and charges may be given

    -The trail will be closed

    -Ladders and ramps will be cut down


    For now, enjoy the forest. Itís a great place to ride with tons of trails. Youíll eventually find the individuals that have and continue to make Michaux a great place to ride.



    Skill level doesnít matter on this topic... Itís sensibility. Please donít ruin it for everyone.

  46. #46
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    If u would have actually read all the posts u would have seen im not going forward even tho i have discussed this with land management..Apparently it will just be a bad thing I guess..So ill just continue with the up keep of the current system..
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  47. #47
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    Wow. This thread has become interesting since the last time I checked in!

    Reading through these posts I can certainly see the different perspectives.

    Tomi - JDel has enthusiasm and time.
    JDel - Tomi has yeeears of experience on this trail network.

    In general, I'm in agreeance with what Tomi has stated as an overall vision of the trails in Michaux. The Forest's trails are world famous for their tight singletrack, rock gardens, and tough east coast riding. I'd like to see them stay that way.

    With that said, I think there is a need for a few beginner friendly trails where we can introduce new riders to the sport. I would hate to take a neighbor for his first real mtb ride and have him give up in frustration after riding some of the rock gardens that we do.

    Something I've been gently pushing for within MBM that would probably help this is a map of the trail network. If the trails are marked out as expert on a map and at the trailhead it is far less likely to be 'dumbed down' by someone who doesn't know the trails.

  48. #48
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    Something I've been gently pushing for within MBM that would probably help this is a map of the trail network. If the trails are marked out as expert on a map and at the trailhead it is far less likely to be 'dumbed down' by someone who doesn't know the trails.

    Great Idea!
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  49. #49
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    And within MBM is a better place for that discussion. Not on an interwebber forum like this.

    Just sayin'.
    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

  50. #50
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    Agreed.

    JDel, Tomi, etc. - please bring your enthusiasm for Michaux over to the MBM blog.

  51. #51
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    damn, i'm looking forward to building wheels and drinking beer tonight.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugboot
    damn, i'm looking forward to building wheels and drinking beer tonight.
    Sounds like fun. I may just do the same. You and Donna are welcome for dinner if you're up for the trek to Gettysburg.

  53. #53
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    thank you for the invite, but D's under the weather and Z is coming over to build his race rig. we'll take a raincheck.
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  54. #54
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    Hey Brett theres a trailhead I wanted to ask u about..Right before u get to the Tumblers Run parking lot theres a little lot on the right with red markings on a tree..Across the street from that lot there looks to be a trail that goes up the mountain..Ever ride there? I know theres a trail right beside the lot but wanted to know about across the street...Thanx
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    What is the best place to park and get to some decent riding. I tried the local bike shop and the directions I got from them amount to nothing. I was up there and left because there is no telling where to get on the single track. DCNR did not have a clue either. The MBM page didn't seem to help much.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackerSteve
    ....DCNR did not have a clue either. The MBM page didn't seem to help much.
    DCNR do have some maps hanging in the racks at the front door. Grab the Flatrock Trail network map and start by getting to know the Red-blazed trails. Parking at the reservoir is good for those trails.

    Also, from the MBM site

  57. #57
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    Best thing to do is try to hook up with an MBM ride or another group ride. DCNR has two trail systems mapped--the ATV trails and the Flat Rock multi-use trail system. Those maps should be available at Pine Grove SP or Caledonia SP or the Forestry office on Rt. 30. Where are you coming from?
    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

  58. #58

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    Thanks bro. I was at the house/ map next to the dam which I will guess is at the reservoir. I am just in such a time crunch when I do get time to be home and ride. I need instant gratification before the sun sets and I have to roll. I just could not find the point to even start.

  59. #59
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    Do you mean Laurel Lake in Pine Grove SP?
    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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