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Thread: new build help

  1. #1
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    new build help

    i am currently in the process of building a all mountain style hardtail complete with 5" travel fork and decent climbing ability. i already have the fork Marzocchi drop-off but i am torn when it come to frame, steel or aluminum.i have narrowed it down to 2 choice; the steel on-one 456 or the santa cruz chameleon. i here nothing but good things about both and i am leaning more toward the on-one because i would save $150 which would go towards other parts.

    any help? anyone know what i could look for between the 2?
    http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...sition=110:110
    http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/chameleon/

  2. #2
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    Chameleon

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    i am currently in the process of building a all mountain style hardtail complete with 5" travel fork and decent climbing ability. i already have the fork Marzocchi drop-off but i am torn when it come to frame, steel or aluminum.i have narrowed it down to 2 choice; the steel on-one 456 or the santa cruz chameleon. i here nothing but good things about both and i am leaning more toward the on-one because i would save $150 which would go towards other parts.

    any help? anyone know what i could look for between the 2?
    http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...sition=110:110
    http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/chameleon/
    Looks beefier to me. I doubt you could go wrong with either, but my vote goes for the Chameleon.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  3. #3
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    My vote? On-one, all the way. W/ a 5" fork, the geometry is pretty similar, so it sort of boils down to frame material and price. FWIW, I'll probably never buy another aluminum HT unless it's got clearance for 2.6 - 3" DH tires (Like Cove Stiffee, Planet X jack flash, etc). For everyday trail riding, steel is just a better, more comfortable choice. I'm sure the chameleon is a fine frame, but it doesn't offer any advantages over the less expensive on-one.

    It's a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. But then, I am a steel HT fanatic so...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    i am currently in the process of building a all mountain style hardtail complete with 5" travel fork and decent climbing ability. i already have the fork Marzocchi drop-off but i am torn when it come to frame, steel or aluminum.i have narrowed it down to 2 choice; the steel on-one 456 or the santa cruz chameleon. i here nothing but good things about both and i am leaning more toward the on-one because i would save $150 which would go towards other parts.

    any help? anyone know what i could look for between the 2?
    http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...sition=110:110
    http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/chameleon/
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  4. #4
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    An affair with Stick's frame?

    Stick you know i like your frame i just can never remember the name. hint

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    Stick you know i like your frame i just can never remember the name. hint
    Yeah, to say I'm a Handjob fanatic is probably 'inappropriate' for a family site like mtbr - even if it's true.

    If they were still as inexpensive now as they were when I bought mine a few years ago, I might have recommended one. Sadly, they've gone from $370 to $500 since 2002. Cost aside, you said you wanted a 5" fork anyway. Cove sets a limit of 4" for the handjob. The Hummer and Stiffee will take a 5" fork, but both are a lot more expensive than the 456.

    For $390, the 456 is a great deal.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  6. #6
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    Door # 3

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    i am currently in the process of building a all mountain style hardtail complete with 5" travel fork and decent climbing ability. i already have the fork Marzocchi drop-off but i am torn when it come to frame, steel or aluminum.i have narrowed it down to 2 choice; the steel on-one 456 or the santa cruz chameleon. i here nothing but good things about both and i am leaning more toward the on-one because i would save $150 which would go towards other parts.

    any help? anyone know what i could look for between the 2?
    http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...sition=110:110
    http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/chameleon/
    http://www.voodoocycles.net/bakka.htm

    -C
    Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.

  7. #7
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    Ty Carol Merrill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip
    Stick and Chip bring up some excellent points regarding steel hardtails. I've only ridden Chip's Bakka once, but it was a pleasure. Very light, and if I were going hardtail, steel would be my first choice. Didn't realize the On One offering was steel. (maybe I should actually read, eh?)

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip
    Stifling the urge to call all VooDoo products 'crap' just to annoy you. Frame-only price?
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  9. #9

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    I beg to differ

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Stifling the urge to call all VooDoo products 'crap' just to annoy you.

    If you believe that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, here is an attempt to bring some light to the enigma of VooDoo Cycles...

    VooDoo closed shop in the US in the fall of 1999 and left a loyal following that still wonder with a sad heart what happened. Yet since pulling out of the USA, VooDoo has been alive and well in Japan all along. Shinji Mizutani has owned VooDoo Cycles since the beginning. He also runs his father’s bicycle wholesale/distributor company called “ASAP” in Osaka (near Shimano Headquarters) in Japan’s bicycle city Sakai. Last summer, Shinji asked me to help get VooDoo rolling and up to speed again. So here you have it. VooDoo is back!
    VooDoo still has many of the hardtail models that made them famous. I believe the hardtail is still very much alive and kickin’! In 2004, most of our classic hardtail frames were tweaked for 100MM fork and one model uses a 125MM travel fork and most have disc tabs. We also designed an adjustable dropout used on Wanga, Bakka, Shango, Bokor, Aizan, Dambala, Limba, and Wazoo that allows the use of gearing, singlespeed (or fixed gear even) with standard disc caliper mounting while being able to use a quick release hub.

    That's about it.

    See you on the trail...

    - Joe

  10. #10
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    Wow. Must really be a slow day for you to go to the effort of registering a new username, nevermind the agonizing difficulty of the cut & paste. I'll give you an D for effort, and a C+ for originality.

    Better luck next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Murray
    If you believe that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, here is an attempt to bring some light to the enigma of VooDoo Cycles...

    VooDoo closed shop in the US in the fall of 1999 and left a loyal following that still wonder with a sad heart what happened. Yet since pulling out of the USA, VooDoo has been alive and well in Japan all along. Shinji Mizutani has owned VooDoo Cycles since the beginning. He also runs his father’s bicycle wholesale/distributor company called “ASAP” in Osaka (near Shimano Headquarters) in Japan’s bicycle city Sakai. Last summer, Shinji asked me to help get VooDoo rolling and up to speed again. So here you have it. VooDoo is back!
    VooDoo still has many of the hardtail models that made them famous. I believe the hardtail is still very much alive and kickin’! In 2004, most of our classic hardtail frames were tweaked for 100MM fork and one model uses a 125MM travel fork and most have disc tabs. We also designed an adjustable dropout used on Wanga, Bakka, Shango, Bokor, Aizan, Dambala, Limba, and Wazoo that allows the use of gearing, singlespeed (or fixed gear even) with standard disc caliper mounting while being able to use a quick release hub.

    That's about it.

    See you on the trail...

    - Joe
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  11. #11
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    A horse, a horse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Murray
    If you believe that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, here is an attempt to bring some light to the enigma of VooDoo Cycles...

    VooDoo closed shop in the US in the fall of 1999 and left a loyal following that still wonder with a sad heart what happened. Yet since pulling out of the USA, VooDoo has been alive and well in Japan all along. Shinji Mizutani has owned VooDoo Cycles since the beginning. He also runs his father’s bicycle wholesale/distributor company called “ASAP” in Osaka (near Shimano Headquarters) in Japan’s bicycle city Sakai. Last summer, Shinji asked me to help get VooDoo rolling and up to speed again. So here you have it. VooDoo is back!
    VooDoo still has many of the hardtail models that made them famous. I believe the hardtail is still very much alive and kickin’! In 2004, most of our classic hardtail frames were tweaked for 100MM fork and one model uses a 125MM travel fork and most have disc tabs. We also designed an adjustable dropout used on Wanga, Bakka, Shango, Bokor, Aizan, Dambala, Limba, and Wazoo that allows the use of gearing, singlespeed (or fixed gear even) with standard disc caliper mounting while being able to use a quick release hub.

    That's about it.

    See you on the trail...

    - Joe
    My kingdom for a horse. In this case, I'd settle for an IP trace.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  12. #12
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    Hi Kieth

    Funny you should post this! I have been looking long and hard at the On-One 456 as well. The ride reports I have seen online have all been postive, and from what I have read of Brant's posts, he sounds like a pretty clever guy when it comes do building bikes.

    I know the Chameleon is a well-loved frame, but I think Stick's comments are on the money. My only reservation might be if you are a masher or really torque the frame, in which case you may find the steel frame a little soft. I have no direct experience in that - the last steel frame I rode was a fully-rigid Mongoose back in 1998 - but something you may want to keep in mind.

    Not wanting to make you decision any more complicated - have you entertained the thought of a 29er? I realise you already have the yummy Marzocchi, but perhaps it is time to think laterally?

    I'm trying to get some opinions in the 29er forum on this very topic: Relaxed, longer travel HT 26er vs. HT 29er. Not many bites yet, however...

    Cheers!

  13. #13
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    my mind is made up

    Quote Originally Posted by stymie
    Hi Kieth

    Funny you should post this! I have been looking long and hard at the On-One 456 as well. The ride reports I have seen online have all been postive, and from what I have read of Brant's posts, he sounds like a pretty clever guy when it comes do building bikes.

    I know the Chameleon is a well-loved frame, but I think Stick's comments are on the money. My only reservation might be if you are a masher or really torque the frame, in which case you may find the steel frame a little soft. I have no direct experience in that - the last steel frame I rode was a fully-rigid Mongoose back in 1998 - but something you may want to keep in mind.

    Not wanting to make you decision any more complicated - have you entertained the thought of a 29er? I realise you already have the yummy Marzocchi, but perhaps it is time to think laterally?

    I'm trying to get some opinions in the 29er forum on this very topic: Relaxed, longer travel HT 26er vs. HT 29er. Not many bites yet, however...

    Cheers!
    i will be ordering the 456 before the night is over

  14. #14
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    steel!!!!!!

    another good deal might be: http://www.somafab.com/groove.html

    and if you didn't have that fork, i'd say BIG WHEELS!

    i just said the same to stymie over on the 29er board...

    i think one of the best deals out there right now is the complete on-one 29er.

  15. #15
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    Good for you

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    i will be ordering the 456 before the night is over
    Kudos on succumbing to the "steel is real" peer pressure committee. I'm sure it's gonna make an excellent baseline for the build. You swapping components from your other hardtail, or is this a ground up build?

    Do tell.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    i will be ordering the 456 before the night is over
    Cool! I'm very excited to see how this build turns out. When do you hope to have it rolling?

    Of course, the most important question - Are you going to go with that blue, or that green?

  17. #17
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    ground up

    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Kudos on succumbing to the "steel is real" peer pressure committee. I'm sure it's gonna make an excellent baseline for the build. You swapping components from your other hardtail, or is this a ground up build?

    Do tell.

    Bob
    all new parts

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Kudos on succumbing to the "steel is real" peer pressure committee.
    lol. aluminum is real, too. It just makes a far better vessel for transporting beer than it does 'hardtail' bicycle frames.

    There's a bona fide reason why people have loved a nice steel frame for a century or so and continue to seek them out today. It's all in the ride.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  19. #19
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    Hey All,

    I wonder if it would be to late for my entry of .243 racing. They are steel from canada and pretty darn nice.

    manu site: http://www.twofortythree.com/

    a place to buy:
    http://www.bikeparts.com/search_resu...224_220%2E5012

    -scoon

  20. #20
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    blue

    Quote Originally Posted by stymie
    Cool! I'm very excited to see how this build turns out. When do you hope to have it rolling?

    Of course, the most important question - Are you going to go with that blue, or that green?

    my wife likes the blue one so to make her feel like she had a hand, i went along. i hope to have it finished around june unless i when the lottery.

  21. #21
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    hey im actually looking to pick up a .243 from a local,and for the type of riding bigkieth wants to do,its def not the bike.its a little heavy,built for FR/DH/DJ...it also only has a 13" seat tube,and the geometry is rather slack...its just not built for general trail riding regardless of what some might say.i have sat on the one im looking to buy so i knwo from experience.
    so this is how you add a signature!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dd13
    hey im actually looking to pick up a .243 from a local,and for the type of riding bigkieth wants to do,its def not the bike.its a little heavy,built for FR/DH/DJ...it also only has a 13" seat tube,and the geometry is rather slack...its just not built for general trail riding regardless of what some might say.i have sat on the one im looking to buy so i knwo from experience.
    Hey there,

    I have ridden them as well, and I thought since he said he was into All Mountain, that it could be an option for him to see. I thought about getting one but ended up getting a heckler instead. Still a nice bike.

    -scoon

  23. #23
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    too beefy

    Quote Originally Posted by scoon
    Hey there,

    I have ridden them as well, and I thought since he said he was into All Mountain, that it could be an option for him to see. I thought about getting one but ended up getting a heckler instead. Still a nice bike.

    -scoon
    yeah i had excluded those about a month ago. the 456 is ordered i have the light blue paint job

  24. #24
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    Wooden casks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    lol. aluminum is real, too. It just makes a far better vessel for transporting beer than it does 'hardtail' bicycle frames.

    There's a bona fide reason why people have loved a nice steel frame for a century or so and continue to seek them out today. It's all in the ride.
    Since we're going the purist route, wouldn't a wooden keg be the ideal vessel for transporting beer?

    I think the steel hardtail idea is definitely the way to go. Like I stated earlier, I didn't realize his other choice was not aluminum, and based on the one ride I had on Chip's hardtail, I'd buy a steel hardtail frame in a heartbeat.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Since we're going the purist route, wouldn't a wooden keg be the ideal vessel for transporting beer?

    Bob
    Only if it's on a clipper ship bound for India! Otherwise, wooden barrels are too big, heavy, and expensive to make a convenient vessel for transporting beer. Storing, bulk aging, serving, and all that - sure. But as far as transporting goes, the aluminum can is really tough to beat. It's less fragile and more packable than glass, and protects the beer from light (which is responsible for light-struck or 'skunked' beer flavors).

    Although cans have a bad reputation because some people assume the metal changes the beer's flavor, beer from modern lined cans is literally indistinguishable from the same beer in bottles in blind tastings.

    Mark my words: cans = the next big thing in the craft beer industry. See: Dales Pale Ale, Sly Fox Pikeland Pils and Pheonix Pale Ale, etc. There will be more to come...
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Although cans have a bad reputation because some people assume the metal changes the beer's flavor, beer from modern lined cans is literally indistinguishable from the same beer in bottles in blind tastings.

    Mark my words: cans = the next big thing in the craft beer industry. See: Dales Pale Ale, Sly Fox Pikeland Pils and Pheonix Pale Ale, etc. There will be more to come...
    Not wanting to hijack Keith's thread (although when the hijack topic is beer, is it still considered a hijack?) - but what do you think of them Steel City aluminium bottles? Josef and I tried some when we were in Pittsburgh last year. I thought they were sensational, and the beer wasn't too bad either

    Back on topic: I like the blue, Keith. Can't wait to see the finished product. I must admit though, I have a strange attraction to the hospital ward green

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymie
    Not wanting to hijack Keith's thread (although when the hijack topic is beer, is it still considered a hijack?) - but what do you think of them Steel City aluminium bottles?
    You mean Iron City, no?



    Well, aside from the obvious irony of offering Iron City beer in aluminium bottles, I'm sure it's a fine package. I haven't tried any of the new bottles myself, though. Haven't had any IC products since college. Remind me sometime, and I'll tell you the story of driving my friend Dave home from State College while he did his best to polish off a case of IC-T in the passenger seat of his parents' frequently over-heating station wagon. (Iron City Tea - a horrible Iced-Tea flavored fermented malt concoction)

    Perhaps that experience put me off of their product for good - but I'll have to revisit their beer, if only for nostalgic purposes.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  28. #28
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    Iron City - that's it. I'm all confused from Superbowl. I guess it would be no good calling the local team the Pittsburgh Ironers - sounds a little too domesticated

    That IC-T experience sounds nasty. The beer, however, was very drinkable. Possibly because it was served quite cold, which may be partly attributable to the aluminium bottle. In any case, we were putting them away at a rapid pace. It was good
    Last edited by stymie; 03-02-2006 at 01:15 PM.

  29. #29
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    Good job! iron city beer

    hmmmmm those beers rocked, especially because they were icy cold.

    Hey stick, you can buy the aluminium and glass bottles at Springfield beer distributors here in center city.
    Might invest in a case this weekend in fact
    What do you say Dave?
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    Might invest in a case this weekend in fact
    What do you say Dave?
    You might be able to twist my arm

  31. #31
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    oops i selt gud

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    my wife likes the blue one so to make her feel like she had a hand, i went along. i hope to have it finished around june unless i when the lottery.
    should have said win not when! proof reading is good

  32. #32
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    too bad i didn't read that thread earlier kieth. you coulda stopped down human zoom and get a chameleon.

  33. #33
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    doh!

    its cool i think i'm gonna be really happy with my choice.

    it seems i may be done before june because after the frame order i sold my black nashbar hardtail and bought some more parts. handlebars, stem, seatpost, saddle and headset.

  34. #34
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    update

    well its been a while and the bike is almost done. i left it at a bells bikes shop (formerly drivesports) to have every thing put together along with all the great prices.

    • deore integrated shifters and with hydralics
    • LX FD
    • LX RD
    • LX hydralic disk brakes
    • marzocchi drop-off 130 (may get a nixon or fox 36)
    • sun rhino lite wheels ( for his fatness)



    pics soon to come

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