Logging at Merli-Sarnoski Park?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Logging at Merli-Sarnoski Park?

    Write up in Scranton Times: Logging at park irks bike club, others. Mention of a bike club (Hubbard Bicycle Club), their presence at meeting to seek public comment and the park, etc. Anyone know more about the logging?

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    All i know is that is has destoryed some great trails. But yea seriously, it is supposed to be rebuilt within the next couple of years, so we didn't lose merli for good. But still i've only been riding prompton this year, which is sad because i liked having a few places to go.

  3. #3
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    more info

    There is a thread about it over in the "save the trails" forum. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=177097

    The pics look like what went on at my local state game lands after they posted "foot travel only" signs up everywhere. The PGC closed the trails and let in the loggers to remove dozens of acres of trees, create new roads, obliterate the trails, and put the profits from selling the resources of "commonwealth" land into their own coffers.

    If trail rebuilding is allowed at merli-sarnoski, could be an opportinity for better trails than before. But in the short term, it looks like advocacy and playing politics is what is needed up there.

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    Jeez! I don't live in Lackawanna County anymore. But, if I did, and had I seen the pics, I'd be taking this up with the local politicians. A lot.

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    I saw a story on this this morning on WNEP-TV. I was impressed by the number of mtb'ers that showed at the meeting. The report said they comprised most of the crowd and "took over" the discussion from planning to the logging issue.
    There was also a soundbite from the "forestry consultant" who defended the project by saying many of the trails were improperly built.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy
    I saw a story on this this morning on WNEP-TV. I was impressed by the number of mtb'ers that showed at the meeting. The report said they comprised most of the crowd and "took over" the discussion from planning to the logging issue.
    There was also a soundbite from the "forestry consultant" who defended the project by saying many of the trails were improperly built.
    I grew up incarbondale and grew up going to that area long before there were biking trails. As kids we always hiked up to that area. there was a pond there in that area that became a state park now i think. the problem is that most people do not care, they only care about how much money they can get for raping the land. Coal was king there and the land was always destoyed. The county commissioners i am told are real jokers. I can go on but the whole thing is sad. It was the one area to get aways from the so called open pit mines. It is too bad these mt biker did not have more of a awareness before this happen. I am almost sure that the whole thing showed up out of the blue for them and did not have much planning to act. Hopefully it will all be corrected in the long run.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    I am almost sure that the whole thing showed up out of the blue for them and did not have much planning to act.
    You know it!

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    Vote them out!

    If they won't listen show them the WAY out! We gotta stop sitting back and just letting stuff happen! Where was the local IMBA rep in that area? Was he at the meeting? Did he speak up? Did he do anything? What was the plan? Does he have a voice hear on this board? Why did it happen this way? Don't let the Board members hide their head in the sand! Go to the next meeting and ask! They would be more than happy to just see it GO AWAY! We did it in my town! Clean sweep! Voted out! All the old 70 plus Geezers with their Crow-knee-isum ways are gone.
    Soon we will have a new trails system in place.

    If you are an IMBA rep please feel free to contact me!
    Lee Curry
    [email protected]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proformance Cycle
    Vote them out!

    If they won't listen show them the WAY out! We gotta stop sitting back and just letting stuff happen! Where was the local IMBA rep in that area? Was he at the meeting? Did he speak up? Did he do anything? What was the plan? Does he have a voice hear on this board? Why did it happen this way? Don't let the Board members hide their head in the sand! Go to the next meeting and ask! They would be more than happy to just see it GO AWAY! We did it in my town! Clean sweep! Voted out! All the old 70 plus Geezers with their Crow-knee-isum ways are gone.
    Soon we will have a new trails system in place.

    If you are an IMBA rep please feel free to contact me!
    Lee Curry
    [email protected]
    I still go home to visit people. The one real problem up there as maybe anywhere else but up there. Is if you are a nature luver then people tend to laugh at you. If you ride a bike people in cars are get out of my way and what are you doing on these county roads while i am drinking and driving. This is what got me into mtb staying off the road from these fools. As for politics I know that most people are mad at the guys in lackawanna county. but since Bush is in office most people still deep down like him. I can not vote there, but will vote against his party as long as i live. But the other party has sold out in a way too.
    I would hope that maybe the lackawanna bike club could help out. Also doesn't channel 16 get into these things in a way. Just a hint to show people in power how they made a mistake. When i moved away ten yrs ago i think that mtb area might just have started getting riders. Also here is a intersted fact few people might not know. Way back when a man owned one half of pond and had a big barb wire fence running thru it, i forget who the other owne was either state or another person. In early 80's that fence came down and state took over everything. Then it started to get better, or more park oriented. But back when i was a kid it was great going up there real nature and hardly anyone knew about it maybe just hunters cool.

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    Atomic300

    Everything and everyone has their time to act! Wyoming Valley was raped by the Coal industry, before that is was the Logging industry! We have made great strides to improve the Valley. I used to ride the road bike and kids would throw things, and old prople would yell get off the road. That was then this is now. We (bikers) have gained respect through numbers. Lance Armstrong had alot to do with it. He brought it mainstream.

    It is not the political correct thing to say, but the OLD CROWKNEES are dying off. NICE! Sorry I'm not political correct. I'm IRISH! I ride bikes! We do have a voice now! The Valley is really coming around! I even see the next round of Geezers riding bikes! Makes it kinda cool now.Of course they drag those bikes into the shop and think 15 bucks will rebuild it! LOL

    I really don't think bikers could stand in the way of loggers. Nor would I want that. But com'on. Have a plan to rebuild the trails! Lets go log the Commisioners yard or their land, and leave it without repair! All in all they have a job to do! God bless them for that! 81 million was spent on Steamtown. How about 5 grand for the repair of the local trails.

    I'm really mad at IMBA! They ask for us to join them yet they don't have their eye on what we need.

    LC

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    ProFormance wrote:
    If they won't listen show them the WAY out! We gotta stop sitting back and just letting stuff happen! Where was the local IMBA rep in that area? Was he at the meeting? Did he speak up? Did he do anything? What was the plan? Does he have a voice hear on this board? Why did it happen this way? Don't let the Board members hide their head in the sand! Go to the next meeting and ask! They would be more than happy to just see it GO AWAY! We did it in my town! Clean sweep! Voted out! All the old 70 plus Geezers with their Crow-knee-isum ways are gone.
    Soon we will have a new trails system in place.

    If you are an IMBA rep please feel free to contact me!
    Lee Curry
    [email protected]
    -----------------------------------------------
    I'm really mad at IMBA! They ask for us to join them yet they don't have their eye on what we need.
    ------------------------------------------------
    No offense Larry, but i'd appreciate it if you didn't talk like that about me or any other imba rep. I am at the end of my advocacy rope with people calling me out and shouting after the fact. I don't know you so i'm not going to judge you, so i'd apprecite it if you'd do the same for me. I understand your frustration at such an useless project as logging at fell mountain. Before you get mad at IMBA and spout that all they want is your money and don't do anything.......I have done this position the best i could for the last 5-6 years and for every postive situation or comment it's comments like yours that take steam out of ev3everything that's accomplished. We have jersey people like schnauzer who promote a new advocacy group b/c they got didn't agree with the current one but yet they promote illegal use of gamelands. I see people posting all the time about screw the game commission let's just ride there and talk about it on the forum. I tried to re-kindle the state organization and barely could get a fire started on that one. Everyone is concerned about their trail and their trail only.

    Enough ranting.....i did work with a few contacts up there and tried to offer as much support as I could and i hope they think i helped out. I usually try a make someon that's local the contact person and work through them. That way in the end a new advocate is now located at that trail system.

    I can't make every meeting. I don't get re-imbursed, i dont' get paid and i don't even get comped a membership, but i dont' care. Keeping PA trails open was always a priority. We have 6 places to ride here locally and we never complained IMBA didn't help, we did it and IMBA did provide some great resources.

    so at this point feel free to call me live b/c people tend to get a little agressive with typing and i feel having a live conversation always has a better result.


    Your sub-par Eastern PA IMBA Rep
    Joe
    610-533-0942

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    Joe:

    I'm still pissed! Not your fault! But you are not here as I see by your phone number. This deal at Merli has been brewing for a while. So it's not like it just surprised everyone. It was all done wrong. And yes IMBA spouts off about protecting our trails. IMBA like the Game Comm doesn't have enough people to protect or patrol their domains. So at IMBA we have volenteers who work for free to protect what we already pay for.

    Where is the IMBA rep from Lackawanna or Luzerne county? I haven't seen IMBA do anything here! So be it. I'm ranting and raving, Yes! Will I continute? YOU BET!

    Too many cooks in one kitchen! Look at what happened to Thorpe! Everyone pays for Gamelands, not just hunters and fisherman, and the use is not deemed hunting and fishing only! Thoses lands were set aside long ago to protect them for future generations. Future generations are here and so are Mt Bikers! We wanna use the lands now! Hunters were never stopped from the use of the said lands were they? They push to use them on Sundays also! Good for them!

    At least if WE loose we went out Screaming not Whispering!

    NEXT!

    LC

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    I think i get your point. The thing is even though I now live in a large metro area, there is no real large mtb community that has come together. There just seems to be little groups and then clicks within these groups. I mean when I read or go to NEMA or MORE bike sites i get jealous that something like that can not happen here in my area. I think the same think goes on where i grew up. It is hard to bring alot of people together but once it happens. I think it grows like a good growth. The problem is how to get it going.

    I think the same with imba, they do great work, have great people. I long time ago i went to a meeting around here and i think nothing came of it. If there is something here then it is well hidden deep within the secret mtb community (in philly). I believe imba wants the local people to do the most work which they should to get something corrected. I think they are so big they can not watch everything. I might be wrong about imba. The above is just what i have seen IMO. Being political correct for people is just a polite way of lying. People should not lie. I too at times am not political correct.

  14. #14
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    Just bare with me on this...
    The LBC isn't around anymore. Hubbard bike club is the local club. We're the ones trying to save Merli. The members of the LBC are still around, supporting us and went to the meeting. If you're unfamiliar with the local politics, you won't understand the whole situation. The comissioners(R) said they wouldn't hike taxes when they were running. The comissioners that were in office (D) at the time said they would need to. The 2 that were running and said they wouldn't hike county taxes were elected. Within one week, they upped taxes by 48 percent! There was something saying they couldn't hike it over a certain percentage, but they over ruled that somehow and the tax hike was on. They claim that they Neted $60,000 from the park. After a 48* hike, this money is nothing. The forester (paul kowalcyz) donated to Santorum (State Senator(R)...Comissioners(R)...Forester(R)... Our local state rep Wansacz(D) hates the county comissioners. I had a meeting with Wansacz and told him WE want to handle this. We (the Hubbard Bike Club, HBC) want to keep this out of the political battle. If this gets into the election next year, and the comissioners get back in, the battle will be harder to win. But, we don't want this to be a hinge in voting. The D's will say the R's are ruining the County parks. the R's will say they're making the parks more user friendly and accessible to the public. Without seeing Merli in person, and hearing those two advertizements, The R's sound like they're on our side... THEY'RE NOT! We need to handle this on our own. We have 2 attorneys working with us and we might have a Certified forester on our side too. I can go on for hours, if not days over this mess and what we have against them. But Rick Peters hides under the Comissioners desk and does them favors.
    LarryFahn.

    PS. IMBA guy, Joe. You stated No offense "Larry". I didn't state anything offensive in this thread.

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    Atomic and Larry:

    IMBA Joe doesn't even live here! How the heck can he know what we want? Give him 15 or 20 bucks and he will see what he can for us? I think not! Only the locals know the way things work in the VALLEY! Joe would like this to just go away. This is why he stated about my typing and not judging me. He would rather I call him on the land line so no one else hears about this. Hey JOE internet works! Yes I called you out! You are the IMBA rep! Correct? I'm not bashing you! I don't know you nor do I judge you. You represent IMBA! I hope to see something posted here on how IMBA got involved with this when we need them right now. Where is our local rep.not Allentown or where ever you live? I got my money right here and willing to join IMBA and so are others. Shame on IMBA for not being there for us. The trees are gone bud. The mess is there!

    Like Axel Rose said "WELL, GET IN THE RING"

    Story 2

    Years back myself and Jack made, groomed, trimmed trails at our local state park with the park rangers ok. He did not help us he just liked the idea of us(MT Bikers) being involved.
    We rode the trails and had fun. Fast foward, Since then MT Bikers are not allowed to ride there anymore. No reason given just signs posted and so what. Don't ask you can't ride here! Today the fishermans trail has grown in so it is unpassable! Fishermen complained to the PR. Well now! He you MT BIke guys can ride here again if you open the trails. How about that statement! I just laughed! I will use the trail to fish there but I will nor will my friends trim or groom anything there ever or ride my Mt Bike there. Looks like mister PR should sharpen his tools.

    Joe welcome to "MY" world

    Like I said before everone has their chance!

    STEP UP AND SWING!
    My bat has lots of wear on it!

    LC

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    First, Larry i apologize i meant to write Lee.

    Lee, i'm not in the mood or for that matter care to argue anymore about mtn biking. I would like to point you to a thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=Merli

    I would also do a search on Merli and you will find that i was involved in the project. Maybe it's my fault for not explaining how the IMBA thing works. There was historically on 1 rep for the entire state and he was based out of harrisburg. He put a lot of effort behind the PGC situation and in the end there weren't enough mtn biking willing to get behind the movement(my opinion) i joined half way into that situation. The interesting thing is i personally have nothing to gain/lose by game lands shutting down. I live 40 min from thorpe but have many trails other than thorpe that i didn't matter but as an advocate i fought for all the game lands. Currently i am working with the PGC to get an approval process together for a club etc to ask for singletrack approval. I don't do it for me locally but my time was best used in that situation on the state level.

    Regarding Merli: i thought i responded pretty quickly to the calls for help and offered to come up and attend a meeting. I've been trying to make local contacts with different trails and having them be the de-facto imba rep and it's worked well. It's slow going but it just keeps adding up. We're working with someone at valley forge about trying to get trails opened up there. Again, i've never ridden there, maybe never will but i'm trying my best to help.

    I don't know where this is going but asking you to call me is not showing everyone that i don't want people to know. Search my profile and you will see i consider myself kind of pro-active. I asked you to call b/c those who rant etc never call and the conversation changes. See when i talk live with someone, results usually happend. Emails and forums don't usually breek accountability and action.

    Sorry If I or IMBA has dissappointed you. i hope that i may have explained myself a little better. By the way, i ride at merli once a month so i know the trails and the area. I'm not one of the locals by any means but i do the best i can.

    Joe

    If you have any additional questions feel free to call me or you can contact imba and let them know your concerns about IMBA's representation at [email protected] or [email protected].

  17. #17
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    Wow- ok folks- IMBA is an organization to help locals organize and help THEMSELVES. Your $20 goes to helping the organization build resources, have a voice in Washington D.C. and do what they can to get mountain bikers in front of the news....local riders MUST USE THEIR OWN VOICES TO GET THE JOB DONE. IMBA can help you with resources, statistics, case studies, trail building guidelines and schools, etc...i.e. GIVE YOU credibility for fighting the good fight. THEY CAN NOT FIGHT THE FIGHT FOR YOU...IMBA (and any other advocacy group) NEEDS THEIR MEMBERS OT BE THEIR LOUDEST VOICE. Now take the anger you are feeling and direct that energy towards helping YOUR trail stay open. Ask IMBA for the resources to help you not look like a raving lunatic 'extreme' sports participant and put together an intelligent and coherent arguement and plan to keep your trails. For you to expect two reps to cover every issue in the entire state is rediculous. Now get out there, fight YOUR fight, and get help where it is offered, how it is offered. And yes, that is calling YOU out to take responsibility for yourself and YOUR trails.

  18. #18
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    For those of you who only complain about trail access and do not join/form local clubs to attempt to make a difference you have no clue how much perseverance, patience, and dedication it takes to get result!! I personal am involved in 3 riding areas. One of the areas has brought me many times to the breaking point were I wanted to walk away. The only thing that keeps me going in that glimmer of light when is see some hope and when I get the encouragement of my fellow bikers (whether it be with help or a simple thanks or good job). Joe is involved in areas all over the state and somehow holds down a full time job, family, and somehow finds time to ride. I have the utmost respect and admiration toward Joe’s tenacity and dedication and for someone to cut him down for negative things that happened in their riding spot takes a lot of nerve.
    Look I am sick of everyone complaining and not actually getting out there and getting involved themselves! By the way posting complaints and slamming others is not getting involved. Get organized! Get involved! Join or form a local mtb club! IMBA supports us with a website filled with information on just about everything biking related. IMBA also has the IMBA Trail Care Crews that put on FREE trail building class. I look at IMBA like this: IMBA works from that top taking care of the bigger agencies and issue as well as supplying information and resources to the everybody. It is the job of the LOCAL clubs to take care of their riding spots directly.
    One would think that the Game Land restrictions would have smacked all of us mountain bikers in the face and woke us up. Instead I still get the same response. Nay, I just want to ride. With fewer and fewer trails we need to get involved now. I do not expect everyone to dedicate their life to saving the trails, just join IMBA and your local club and offer to do what you can. If we all did a little then that little would add up to be a lot.
    All bikers must unite! Once we are all working together things will change.

    Brian

  19. #19

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    To all:

    Joe your correct!
    You are out of the picture.
    Not from our Valley, and who is arguing?
    Not I

    Just some info for you.

    I have lived here all my life. Raced AMA, ATVA,AHRMA motorcycles, quads, 3 wheelers BMX, Mt bikes, and many other forms of motorsports. I promote the Pa State VMX Championships at Twin Creeks MX Complex as well as race the series myself. I ride something every weekend when not racing. Built trails everywhere. Built tracks. Including the new area I just gained access to Lawton PA. 3 land owners to boot in one day gave me permission! Just look at some of my pics on MTB Review. Memeber of the LBC even if doesn't exist in club form anymore.GOD bless Tim Sheen. Run a Motorcycle and Bicycle shop! Once owned and ran Hickory Ridge ABA BMX track! ...................yadda yadda yadda.

    I need not go on. I have seen it all before.

    IMBA needs more people to make more effort. My 10 cents! Read the posts in this thread. Seems lots agree with me! So you say "Thorpe" is was not worth fighting for? Personal view? WOW The Mt Bike capitol of NEPA. Were you just sick of the trails there or what? Do you not know of how Thorpe is known all over the US of A. Is there no new blood in MTB riders? Let me tell you my friend. Guys I race motorcycles form other states ask me what happened to MTB weekend. Thorpe is sending waves still. People are stunned! Why don't we have a permit system to ride in State Game Lands? Hunters do some of them use ATVs in SGL! I will pay to ride SGL. Sign me up! No Better Money spent!


    Joe: After the "Thorpe" comment I take back my Axel Rose statement "Don't get in the ring" We will handle it from here!

    NEXT!
    Thanks for conversing. See ya on the trail!

    PC ^^The TRAILS start Here^^ LC

  20. #20
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    Hackamo wrote:
    "The interesting thing is i personally have nothing to gain/lose by game lands shutting down. I live 40 min from thorpe but have many trails other than thorpe that i didn't matter but as an advocate i fought for all the game lands. Currently i am working with the PGC to get an approval process together for a club etc to ask for singletrack approval. I don't do it for me locally but my time was best used in that situation on the state level. "
    Proformance Cycles,

    I think you need to look again at what Joe wrote. To me he is saying that even though Thorp (which is game lands) is 40 minutes away and does not effect his local seen. He still fought to save it by fighting for all Game Lands.

    What people need to understand is that IMBA is here to aid the local clubs. The local club must fight for themselves and use tool and guidance that IMBA give though their site and reps.
    Are you willing to be a IMBA rep?
    You are willing to buy a permit to ride the game lands, but are you willing to try to work with the Game Commission to create one?

  21. #21

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    There it is:

    Why do we have to join IMBA? I'm not, nor never will be a member of IMBA!
    Did the trees growback at Merli that fast? Is Thorpe open again?

    LC

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    to clarify: i'm not focusing on thorpe right now b/c of the amount of hunting groups located at sgl 141. I'm using or requesting another game land that has 22 miles of sustainable singletrack. This game land is quieter in terms of political scenarios and the reason also is the the land manager who oversees 141 is the same that sees this one.

    Lee, i'll never win with a guy like you, and i have tons of experience dealing with that type locally.No worries though, if those who originally worked with me on merli would put lee in the mix i'm sure he would be a valuable resource.

    Lee, maybe i'll see you on the trail someday and if you ever have any questions you have my phone number.


    later,
    Joe

    19 days till french creek.......

  23. #23
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    Hello,

    First off I disagree witht his person JOE who is with IMBA. I think if you had put something in the PA section here more people will see it. Second I do not even know your phone number how do I call you? Third a big one, why should I as a PA state resident pay money out to game commission to ride on state game land funded I think first off by our tax dollars? Fourth the hunters and fisherman of this state need to share all lands. Yes they pay to hunt those lands, but those lands were created first out of our tax dollars thru everyone who hunt or does not correct? I understand the hunters view pt, but why pay money for lands that do not even exist as of today? Fifth per proformance explaining past park use and how PR now wants him to clear land for who FISHERMEN? Why didn't he ask fishermen and hunters and HIKERS to clear park? WHO do you think will want the trail closed again because of over use of land? Sixth and final request please post to PA sectiona and maybe more people will become interested. I know I might be intersted if you post to PA section about valley forge park. I use to ride their a long time ago and saw that PR closed certain sections. So now I am reaching out to YOU! I would like to see info. Also how about IMBA posting items and current troubles in bike store. Does your organization ever try and do that. Think about that and how if more people saw a trouble spot they might become more interested? This is my rant now. All I ever see is IMBA asking for money to join. I kinda of think you are alittle wrong by not posting here. IMO by not posting here you are saying the internet is not a good communication tool. So I am too calling you out, to say yes I am interested and want to hear what you have to say. I believe others probably do too.

  24. #24

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    Hey Joe,

    Try not to let the trolls bring you down. These guys don't care about the trails if they did they'd be the IMBA rep, form their own organization, or use their money and time to influence the politicians.

    There are many guys like me out their who appreciate your efforts but have never thanked you for them.

    I'd buy you a beer at French Creek, but you may have to settle for a free sample of Red Bull.

    What class are you racing?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Hello,

    First off I disagree witht his person JOE who is with IMBA.
    Fair enough, not everyone does always agree with Joe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    I think if you had put something in the PA section here more people will see it.
    Yep- but the same amount of people would see it if the LOCAL organization (that apparently doesnt even exist anymore) would have posted the same thing and contacted IMBA directly for assistance early on. Take some responsibiliy for yourselves, folks! IMBA has the resources to help you, but you need to be the eyes, ears, and manpower to support the sport!

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Second I do not even know your phone number how do I call you?
    See Joe's forst post in his thread, or just about any other post he has written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Third a big one, why should I as a PA state resident pay money out to game commission to ride on state game land funded I think first off by our tax dollars? Fourth the hunters and fisherman of this state need to share all lands. Yes they pay to hunt those lands, but those lands were created first out of our tax dollars thru everyone who hunt or does not correct? I understand the hunters view pt, but why pay money for lands that do not even exist as of today? Fifth per proformance explaining past park use and how PR now wants him to clear land for who FISHERMEN? Why didn't he ask fishermen and hunters and HIKERS to clear park? WHO do you think will want the trail closed again because of over use of land?
    Get all of the facts before spouting. Yes a portion of these lands were paid for by tax dollars, but quite a bit have been private donations to the SGL. Im not saying I like the situation either, and yes I think that the PGC is a heavy-handed unilateral bunch of hyppocrates...but is that IMBA's fault? Hardly...it is more OUR fault as MTB'ers that we cant seem to get organized enough to have a strong enough voice to force organizations like the SGL to allow access or at least come to an acceptable compromise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Sixth and final request please post to PA sectiona and maybe more people will become interested. I know I might be intersted if you post to PA section about valley forge park. I use to ride their a long time ago and saw that PR closed certain sections. So now I am reaching out to YOU! I would like to see info. Also how about IMBA posting items and current troubles in bike store. Does your organization ever try and do that. Think about that and how if more people saw a trouble spot they might become more interested?
    Read some threads here. You will see everything you are asking for. As far as posting to local shops- absolutely, but asking an unpaid, unreimbursed(gas) volunteer rep to cover the entire state with flyers is too much. How about a mailing list so that LBS's can print and post the noices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    This is my rant now. All I ever see is IMBA asking for money to join. I kinda of think you are alittle wrong by not posting here. IMO by not posting here you are saying the internet is not a good communication tool. So I am too calling you out, to say yes I am interested and want to hear what you have to say. I believe others probably do too.
    Yep, IMBA sure could do more. Especially with a stronger volunteer base. You interested in volunteering?

    oh and.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Proformance Cycle
    I have lived here all my life. Raced AMA, ATVA,AHRMA motorcycles, quads, 3 wheelers BMX, Mt bikes, and many other forms of motorsports. I promote the Pa State VMX Championships at Twin Creeks MX Complex as well as race the series myself. I ride something every weekend when not racing. Built trails everywhere. Built tracks. Including the new area I just gained access to Lawton PA. 3 land owners to boot in one day gave me permission! Just look at some of my pics on MTB Review. Memeber of the LBC even if doesn't exist in club form anymore.GOD bless Tim Sheen. Run a Motorcycle and Bicycle shop! Once owned and ran Hickory Ridge ABA BMX track! ...................yadda yadda yadda.
    That is a lot of MOTOR-sports experience...thanks for pointing that out- it really puts your comments into perspective-right at a time where the SGL is trying to lump MTB in with motorcycles as a justification for keeping us out. Nice.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonolithicX
    Hey Joe,

    Try not to let the trolls bring you down. These guys don't care about the trails if they did they'd be the IMBA rep, form their own organization, or use their money and time to influence the politicians.

    There are many guys like me out their who appreciate your efforts but have never thanked you for them.

    I'd buy you a beer at French Creek, but you may have to settle for a free sample of Red Bull.

    What class are you racing?
    Ok, as per this site as always people have to personal attacks against you by calling you names Nice! So let me clear some things up, first I do not come here alot. I only came back cause in the past there was some weird personal attacks made. I think LEE has made some great pts. For the Meril part I get excited since I have been there before anyone of you knew about this place. It did get hip with other bikers. So let that last statement go if you can. About the IBMA I never asked Joe or other rep to personal make visit. I did say post. Post can mean by fax, or call a bike store. As for clubs they can do a better job posting here. Yes, maybe I should come here more often to look around and yes maybe I will call this JOE person.

    O yes for all those like Monolithicx on this site and Others who want to call, other people and myself names. You can take your own rage and throw your rocks or sticks to hurt me, but like my grandpa always said names in the end don't hurt at all. Just the rocks and sticks (smiling). I still hold to original statement and LETS get it correct for all those righteous mtb bikers out there, IBMA as big as they are can still send a fax to a store to ask them to post it for those who out of the loop. Also so I am not misunderstood here did I say the reps? And as per my previous post, for all those in the Scranton area who are in clubs, or those reading here in philly, how about posting or asking a store to post a sign about your clubs. Then people like me who rely on maybe this site to find things out will see it better. Yes, all stores have a right to say no and thats fine too.

    Yes I have emailed Lee and did tell him I would be interested in getting up there to fix a trail. I know one time I was unable to make it. Finally for my last lunatic statement I only saw Joe's phone number the first time here today.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Ok, as per this site as always people have to personal attacks against you by calling you names Nice!
    Um, what name(s) would that be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    So let me clear some things up, first I do not come here alot. I only came back cause in the past there was some weird personal attacks made.
    You were checking in to see if there were personal attacks? You mean like the ones against Joe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Post can mean by fax, or call a bike store. As for clubs they can do a better job posting here.
    Sounds like a great idea. I'm sure Joe could use some help with the faxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    Yes, maybe I should come here more often to look around and yes maybe I will call this JOE person.
    JOE person? What's with the caps? Do you think he doesn't exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic300
    O yes for all those like Monolithicx
    Ain't nobody that good looking!

  28. #28

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    Figure it out It's easy

    I myself have no personal beef with anyone!

    If you are an IMBA or any other rep you WILL be called out! I own a shop! Customers call me out ALL the time. That is part of my job. I never let anyone go away mad. I will fix the problem if one exists! I don't run and hide anywhere. I'm here all the time. The trails and tracks I have built are my rewards.

    Just to be politically correct: Which I hate: IMO

    IMBA hides when it doesn't go there way. Why don't they post the logging pics on their website for all to see! This is the reality of it. You can't hide it. We(bikers) don't need education like IMBA says we do. It doesn't hurt, but we need trails to ride, and hike, and hunt, and fish, and horseback on! People don't know What's going on at their trails, so they feel by joining IMBA they will see something done. Be an advocate in winning, but don't hide when you get slammed out either, or jump ship and go to the next problem! I still can't get over the statement made of: "I just walked away from THORPE" Thank God the Wright Brother's did just walk away or go by the "strick rules of flotation" that Columbus did! Metal ships DO FLOAT!

    I just don't like the message of you gotta join IMBA to get something done. I have never leaned on or used IMBA for anything I have done. Don't tell me I gotta join something I don't believe in. I don't tell you to bring your bike to my shop to have it fixed!

    I don't know what their purpose is. That's their deal, not mine!

    Fact: MERLI is real mess right now! Yes I will be there to clean up already have been at it! No, I will not announce it all over. I will just go there and work! If I'm told to leave I will! If I get stuff done there then we all gain from it!

    Fact: THORPE is off limits to us right now. The heat has cooled there for now. Hunters are not threaten by the so called MEGA MASSES of MT BIKERS. I am not a hunter anymore. not enough time. I'm glad people hunt. I'm sick of smacking deer with my van! Hunters do provide a service of thinning the heard. Don't go nuts on me and ask me to explain how that works. I don't know, don't care. Go Hunting! I'm riding somewhere else.

    Just like my last ride I got 3 land owners to allow me ride their properties. If I went there and gave them the IMBA speech they would have laughed at me.Once again I didn't need IMBA to what I did for many years. It's about common sense and making friends. So am I personnaly mad at JOE, no way! I'm not mad at anyone! I ride with friends who are hunters, IMBA members, doctors, lawyers, and such. I would ride with anyone on this forum now or later. We all have voice and opinions. We are all praised and slammed, sometimes at the same time.
    If you wanna join someting, join Hubbard! Those guys are heros in my book!

    Come and ride! I will never run out of trails here!

    LC

  29. #29

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    MonoliticX:

    First off I'm not a "troll" by any means! And I do post ALL my info, not hide behind a screen name! How about your info please? Got a real name, address, and phone number for all to see?

    About the motorsports thing if took the time to read you will also see other realms of wheeled transportation! It's not my idea to group motorcycles with bicycles! If you do your homework we were grouped with horses at one time. Do you ride at MERLI?

  30. #30
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    Are any of the trails still rideable? I am visiting Scranton this weekend and called the park. They told me only the area around Beaver Cliffs(?) was affected by logging. They told me the rest was intact.

    If it is rideable, can I take my cyclocross bike or do I need my MTB? I have a C-Dale cross bike with a 1" travel fork that can handle some trail riding.

    Any input would be appreciated.

  31. #31
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    Did you know that you can start a new thread?
    Last edited by LarryFahn; 08-03-2006 at 08:18 AM.

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    Larry i got an update but i figured you already have it. Could you post it????

  33. #33
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    I'll post the most important things. These were given to me by someone on the steering committee (Mtn biker/ XC skier). I have refered to him as "X" in the past and present due to political standings.



    The report maintains that the logging was generally recommended by experts,
    but that due to the opposition of "a vocal contingent of mountain
    bikers...the County Comissioners have decided to suspend logging operations
    at the parK". (page10)

    The draft Master Plan also devotes an entire page to a description of the
    bike trails and an affirmation of their importance to the Park. "The trail
    system rivals any in the Northeast" (page 27)

    Page 48 contains the following language: "We recommend utilizing the Hubbard
    Bike Club and other park users as volunteers to assist with the operation
    and maintenance of the facilities they use. Scheduling volunteer events for
    such purposes would get users involved in park projects and draw additional
    users to the park"

    Oh yes, the idea of naming a trail after Manny Gordon was accepted, and the
    "Manny Gordon Trail" gets coverage on several pages of the report - the
    trail is even mapped out on the report. The only problem is that we
    suggested naming the main orange single track bike trail after this icon of
    the forrest. Instead, the powers behind the Master Plan adopted the name
    for the one mile loop road around the lake (which is really only a "trail"
    where it cuts through the rhododendron along the lake's western shore).

    Nevertheless, my assessment of the draft Master Plan is that the Mountain
    Bike Community has succeeded in what many people thought would be a hopeless
    battle. Congratulations to all who supported this effort.
    Hubbard Bike Club

  34. #34
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    That is fantastic- what a great result. Congrats!

  35. #35
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    Congratulations Larry, and vocal associates.

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