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Thread: Got Mud

  1. #1

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    Got Mud

    Well, we went out to core creek, and it was muddy!
    We had a good time,as always .
    It had alot of water running off some of the tails.
    That just made it more fun to ride.
    I feel bad because we did not make it to the bad lands.
    That the other side of the park.
    So here are some pics for you.
    Talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
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  2. #2
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    Nice pics

    Looks like you had a nice ride, and I don't want to come off as a jackass, but this is the second post you made this week regarding riding in the mud. While it is inevitable that we all ride in conditions that aren't ideal, there's also something to said about exercising some self control and common sense when trail conditions are such that riding them basically destroys them. If the majority of your ride today was in conditions such as those in your pics, it might have been a better idea to just wait a few days for the trails to recover.

    Again, I don't want to come off as condescending or as a know-it-all. We recently had a thread regarding trail conditions at Wss that got way out of hand. I have no desire for this thread to degrade into the same fiasco, just offering up some food for thought. Please accept those thoughts in the spirit in which I offer them.

    Respectfully,

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    On hard feeling

    It that we like to ride wet dry mud what ever it is.
    We understand that it leave ruts,but if it need any maintenance .
    We will give a helping hand.
    With all of the water run off,and rain and snow.
    It should be ok.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
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  4. #4
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    More work than you think!!!!!!!!

    Hi Ride Hard!! It has been a while since we have been out together. Hope you are well! I have been avoiding the trails just for Clyde's reasons. (Except Pennypack along the stream 'cause it floods frequently anyway).

    It isn't just the ruts. It is what happens after the ruts are created. It retains water longer than anyone really likes & causes the water to channel creating little rivers and a lot of erosion. The erosion does its work quickly too, and that makes even more work! After the ruts dry they get real hard and that too is more work! To me the amount of work to continuously maintain this kind of problem is way above the benefit received by the muddy ride. Not to mention the park officials frown on using muddy trails. (We already know they won't fix the trails). Riding under conditions where most of the trails are wet & muddy is not a good biking standard. The damage can be significant.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to rag on you or anyone else. I'm just trying to educate & remind bikers of the problem and to keep it foremost in our thought process when we decide to ride.

    By-the-way, I am up for a trip to Blue Marsh you talked about. We should keep it in the back of our minds! I'm sure some of the others @ Core Creek will be interrested too!

    I'll be looking for you soon and TM will be getting ready soon too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Looks like you had a nice ride, and I don't want to come off as a jackass, but this is the second post you made this week regarding riding in the mud. While it is inevitable that we all ride in conditions that aren't ideal, there's also something to said about exercising some self control and common sense when trail conditions are such that riding them basically destroys them. If the majority of your ride today was in conditions such as those in your pics, it might have been a better idea to just wait a few days for the trails to recover.

    Again, I don't want to come off as condescending or as a know-it-all. We recently had a thread regarding trail conditions at Wss that got way out of hand. I have no desire for this thread to degrade into the same fiasco, just offering up some food for thought. Please accept those thoughts in the spirit in which I offer them.

    Respectfully,

    Bob

  5. #5
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    Another consequence

    Quote Originally Posted by trekmike

    It isn't just the ruts. It is what happens after the ruts are created. It retains water longer than anyone really likes & causes the water to channel creating little rivers and a lot of erosion. The erosion does its work quickly too, and that makes even more work! After the ruts dry they get real hard and that too is more work!
    By-the-way, I am up for a trip to Blue Marsh you talked about. We should keep it in the back of our minds! I'm sure some of the others @ Core Creek will be interrested too!

    I'll be looking for you soon and TM will be getting ready soon too!
    These ruts that were created will freeze up and harden as Mike indicated. Over the next few days, other riders will make their way out to the trails hoping that they've drained off and are suitable for riding. My guess is that when they see the conditions they encounter a few are gonna be a bit hacked off at what amounts to a lack of consideration to the community of riders as a whole. I'm sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but it's the truth. Yes, it's fun to ride in the mud, but there are ramifications that reach beyond the need to groom the trails. It's a matter of being courteous and responsible so that everyone can enjoy the trails.

    Mike-hoping to get together with you soon. I'll probably come up your way and do Core Creek, as I doubt I'm in any condition to do Blue Marsh.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  6. #6
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    Too kind!

    Everyone is being way too kind here. I am sorry, but what you did was WRONG! Not only have you rutted the trails, in one photo you went outside of the singletrack, thus widening the trail. I don't care how fun it is to ride in mud, it is very irresponsible and highly inconsiderate of you. Additionally, you do not look like a "light" rider. Those ruts will take a lot of work to be repaired and in the mean time you have made a mess for people who will ride when it is dry or frozen.

    Shame on you!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Looks like you had a nice ride, and I don't want to come off as a jackass, but this is the second post you made this week regarding riding in the mud. While it is inevitable that we all ride in conditions that aren't ideal, there's also something to said about exercising some self control and common sense when trail conditions are such that riding them basically destroys them. If the majority of your ride today was in conditions such as those in your pics, it might have been a better idea to just wait a few days for the trails to recover.

    Again, I don't want to come off as condescending or as a know-it-all. We recently had a thread regarding trail conditions at Wss that got way out of hand. I have no desire for this thread to degrade into the same fiasco, just offering up some food for thought. Please accept those thoughts in the spirit in which I offer them.

    Respectfully,

    Bob
    Damn Clyde, really nice post. Are you a politician? (:

    And Ride hard, you are damaging the trails. No question. And some day, people will point to people like you to ban bikes from core creek.

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    Shame on me

    Now that i know this, it will not happen again.
    Im sorry if i made a mess of things.
    I will take the blame for this.
    Just to let you know,with the rain and snow run off is
    washing away alot off the tails,alot more roots and deep ruts are expose.
    The six feet hill were you put the two by four is expose as well.
    We will find another spot to ride for the mud, were its ok to do so.
    Like i said( im sorry and i will take the blame for this)
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARDor DIE
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    Last edited by ride hard or die; 02-18-2006 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #9
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    God help me, NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    Damn Clyde, really nice post. Are you a politician? (:
    With that said, I'll take it as a compliment to my post. While I often knee-jerk into a reply, I also try to take the time to clearly articulate and get my point across without sounding reactionary. I must admit I had to exercise a lot of self resatraint, but I also happen to feel the OP has no idea that what he did is as wrong as it is. In the first days of my riding experience, I took my children on a mud ride and was literally ignorant to the destruction I was causing. This experince tempered my reply and saved the OP from wrath.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    No More Mr Nice Guy

    Hey Mike and clybe ,i'm not piss off at you guys.
    It just the other cry babys Schanuzers and Anand i'm talking about.
    For one thing if it rains to much, what are they going to do? Ban the rain
    for raining to much or the snow for snowing to much. And when it melts,
    run off, wash, expose roots and open up ruts what
    about the deers that are not so small ,yea lets just kick them out of the
    park to .I know this sound stupid so now you know how you sound.
    We been rinding the creek for over five years,never had a problem.
    I dont know what kind of riding you like to do,i'm not knocking it.
    But we like riding everthing,so if you dont like what i'm saying,
    TO BAD i dont care.
    RIDE HARDor DIE
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  11. #11
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    With all due respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Hey Mike and clybe ,i'm not piss off at you guys.
    It just the other cry babys Schanuzers and Anand i'm talking about.
    For one thing if it rains to much, what are they going to do? Ban the rain
    for raining to much or the snow for snowing to much. And when it melts,
    run off, wash, expose roots and open up ruts what
    about the deers that are not so small ,yea lets just kick them out of the
    park to .I know this sound stupid so now you know how you sound.
    We been rinding the creek for over five years,never had a problem.
    I dont know what kind of riding you like to do,i'm not knocking it.
    But we like riding everthing,so if you dont like what i'm saying,
    TO BAD i dont care.
    RIDE HARDor DIE

    Your anger at the other posters is a bit misplaced. I did my best to make my post as balanced as possible, with the full knowledge that other posters would very likely lay you out. It seems to me that you truly don't understand the impact this has on the community as a whole. The angry replies are a perfect example of how people feel about riders whose only concern is for their own enjoyment, without regards to others. Simply put, if it is a community trail, you need to leave the trail in such condition that other users can enjoy it when you are finished. Yesterday your reply seemed to indicate that you understood this concept, now today you seem to defend your actions. The answer your question about what to do about the rain is very very simple. Don't ride until the trails are ready. Exercise some self control, and don't ride public trails in the mud, that's all there is to it. To compare the damage that animals create on the paths to what you and your friends did to that trail the other day is simply absurd.

    Again, I don't want to start a flame war in this thread. The bottom line is that as riders, we have to choose what is right and what is wrong. Nobody in this forum can stop you from riding in the mud. All we can do is educate you to what is generally accepted within the ranks of people who ride mountain bikes. Riding in conditions that you rode in the other day, and leaving the trails in the conditions you left them is generally not something that riders accept. One of my posts stated "My guess is that when they see the conditions they encounter a few are gonna be a bit hacked off at what amounts to a lack of consideration to the community of riders as a whole." That statement is now ringing true in some of the responses you are seeing. I have no doubt in my mind that you did not know the consequences of your actions the other day. You posted those pics, and now you are aware of peoples feelings. To quote your own post " you dont like what i'm saying,
    TO BAD i dont care."

    I've stated my peace and will leave the matter between you and the riders at Core Creek.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    Your anger at the other posters is a bit misplaced. I did my best to make my post as balanced as possible, with the full knowledge that other posters would very likely lay you out. It seems to me that you truly don't understand the impact this has on the community as a whole. The angry replies are a perfect example of how people feel about riders whose only concern is for their own enjoyment, without regards to others. Simply put, if it is a community trail, you need to leave the trail in such condition that other users can enjoy it when you are finished. Yesterday your reply seemed to indicate that you understood this concept, now today you seem to defend your actions. The answer your question about what to do about the rain is very very simple. Don't ride until the trails are ready. Exercise some self control, and don't ride public trails in the mud, that's all there is to it. To compare the damage that animals create on the paths to what you and your friends did to that trail the other day is simply absurd.

    Again, I don't want to start a flame war in this thread. The bottom line is that as riders, we have to choose what is right and what is wrong. Nobody in this forum can stop you from riding in the mud. All we can do is educate you to what is generally accepted within the ranks of people who ride mountain bikes. Riding in conditions that you rode in the other day, and leaving the trails in the conditions you left them is generally not something that riders accept. One of my posts stated "My guess is that when they see the conditions they encounter a few are gonna be a bit hacked off at what amounts to a lack of consideration to the community of riders as a whole." That statement is now ringing true in some of the responses you are seeing. I have no doubt in my mind that you did not know the consequences of your actions the other day. You posted those pics, and now you are aware of peoples feelings. To quote your own post " you dont like what i'm saying,
    TO BAD i dont care."

    I've stated my peace and will leave the matter between you and the riders at Core Creek.

    Bob
    Very well put!!!!

    Its a shame when a tactful approach goes by the way of the wind!

  13. #13
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    Good Cop/ Bad Cop

    Do you think the Good Cop(Bob) and the Bad Cop(Mitch) routine worked??? -XCBob
    Sir Dabs-alot

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    All respect you Clyde

    I'm not mad at you or Mike, you guys explain everthing to us,and we said that we will not
    ride at the park when its wet or muddy.It just when some people strart saying thing like some day, people will point to people like you to ban bikes from core creek or you do not look like a "light" rider. the guys in the pics are not me, but i dont think that is a nice way of getting to know people. We are not a bad bunch,i just dont like when other are fast to judge one.
    And i thinkyou and Mike for looking out for us, maybe i took it the wrong way,and if i did
    once again i apologize.
    I hope to talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
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    Last edited by ride hard or die; 02-19-2006 at 03:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    Does that mean I can smack 'em around?

    Quote Originally Posted by XCBob
    Do you think the Good Cop(Bob) and the Bad Cop(Mitch) routine worked??? -XCBob
    Cool! I always wanted to play the bad cop. Maybe I can audition for a role on Law and Order.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    I'm not mad at you or Mike, you guys explain everthing to us,and we said that we will not
    ride at the park when its wet or muddy.It just when some people strart saying thing like some day, people will point to people like you to ban bikes from core creek or you do not look like a "light" rider. the guys in the pics are not me, but i dont think that is a nice way of getting to know people. We are not a bad bunch,i just dont like when other are fast to judge one.
    And i thinkyou and Mike for looking out for us, maybe i took it the wrong way,and if i did
    once again i apologize.
    I hope to talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    I thought "light" was a very PC way of putting it. You want me to say it better? 250 pounds on a 50 pound bike in mud DESTROYS trails. Period. End of story.

    I ride with all kinds of folk, both heavy and light. I ride with 250 pound riders who make me look like 400 pounds because they have tremendous skill. I have nothing against anyone of any weight riding trails, I only ask that you know what you are doing. Today I rode FROZEN trails. Had they been the trails your were on, it would have been a miserable rutted ride.

    You can always ride on the road when the trails are wet or come over to South Jersey and I'll take you on some great trails that are even better when wet. Really.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Hey Mike and clybe ,i'm not piss off at you guys.
    It just the other cry babys Schanuzers and Anand i'm talking about.
    For one thing if it rains to much, what are they going to do? Ban the rain
    for raining to much or the snow for snowing to much. And when it melts,
    run off, wash, expose roots and open up ruts what
    about the deers that are not so small ,yea lets just kick them out of the
    park to .I know this sound stupid so now you know how you sound.
    We been rinding the creek for over five years,never had a problem.
    I dont know what kind of riding you like to do,i'm not knocking it.
    But we like riding everthing,so if you dont like what i'm saying,
    TO BAD i dont care.
    RIDE HARDor DIE
    Actually, you do sound stupid but you have a point. In my mind, places that don't handle rain (or wet) well should probably not be accessible to bikes or horses. I know nothing of core creek so I will pass no judgement on that. And I apologize if I did. However, if the place can handle it, I have no problem with ridding it. Heck, look at some of the horse damage at Green lane. I got no problem ridding some of those pastures in the pouring rain. Now the honeysuckle trail is another matter...

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    If you do the crime you do the time

    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
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  19. #19
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    You rock!

  20. #20
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    Nice Job

  21. #21
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    Good job!

    You guys could have easily not done anything and waited for the heat to die down.

    But instead you guys went back out and worked on grooming the trails.

    WELL DONE

    We love to see more people like you.
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  22. #22
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    Thanks Ride Hard! We will hook up soon!!

  23. #23
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    Very nicely done

    I'm impressed, RHoD. Excellent job.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    Good on 'ya! Now you just have to hope that nobody else rides through before it freezes or dries out. Would suck to see someone undo all of your hard work in a single pass.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  25. #25
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    Someone else will be out there & set us back:

    Guarantee it will happen. But, it is good to promote the standard!



    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Good on 'ya! Now you just have to hope that nobody else rides through before it freezes or dries out. Would suck to see someone undo all of your hard work in a single pass.

  26. #26
    Never worng!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    Outstanding!

    Congratulations on a job well done!

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    Now nobody freak on me but as long as just ride the trail and its soaked it will reform. But if its not fully soaked and just a little more than tacky your gonna leave big ruts. well this theory at least works where i ride.

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    Good job! That is stand up, man

    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    Honor and Responsibility! It makes me proud to be a mountain biker to see this. I think some props are also due to Clyde and the others who approached this with a positive attitude.

    Good Job!

  29. #29
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    I've been following the thread, to see how this whole bruhaha would turn out. This ending is very unexpected and, to echo the others, very standup of you guys. Nice job.

    You're making me feel guilty for not being out their right now doing some trail work .

    Patrick
    Last edited by PCinSC; 02-25-2006 at 11:59 AM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE
    Way to go! You feel good too, don't ya? Why not adopt the area as your pet project? Speak with the local land administrator.

    I'm glad to see you owned up to the damage and I apologize if I said anything about anyones weight. It wasn't meant to offend.

  31. #31

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    thought the exchange of info was great(except for the unfortunate "i'll just be blunt and keep it real approach") but here is our small discussion on it:
    http://www.bikevmb.com/index.php?nam...iewtopic&t=697

    here was a great article a member referenced:
    http://www.dirtragmag.com/web/news-article.php?ID=565

  32. #32
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    Dont' beat the guy up....

    Chill.
    Don't beat the guy up. He made a mistake. Clyde & Mike informed him why it was wrong and he rectified his actions. We are all guilty here of riding in mud, I do it, but not often.

    Schnauzers, ever notice with almost every post, you stick yer nose in, you tend to get beat up in the postings because of the tactless way you say things? It's a pattern, I have read them all. Maybe you should stick to the pine barrens and leave yer 2 cents out of CC.

    dirty bert
    p.s. Mike, I'll see you in April, back on the trail!
    Check out all these mountain biking t-shirts, hats, sweatshirts by Trail Hog today!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Bert
    Chill.
    Don't beat the guy up. He made a mistake. Clyde & Mike informed him why it was wrong and he rectified his actions. We are all guilty here of riding in mud, I do it, but not often.

    Schnauzers, ever notice with almost every post, you stick yer nose in, you tend to get beat up in the postings because of the tactless way you say things? It's a pattern, I have read them all. Maybe you should stick to the pine barrens and leave yer 2 cents out of CC.

    dirty bert
    p.s. Mike, I'll see you in April, back on the trail!
    Yeah, I know. The truth hurts.

    As for the Pine Barrens, I ride them to protect the trails that are not rideable due to conditions. I think I have done more than my fair share of work for "your" trails. A lot more than 2 cents worth. What have you done?

  34. #34
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    cant we leave it alone (the sledging of any form). These threads are becoming beyatch slapping grounds rather than inspirational exchange of idea's, cool places to ride and riding with newly met riding buddies
    I know people get frustrated, very frustrated at times but one must remember that these threads DONT offer the comfort of allowing us to express different tones and expressions when we post.
    Just a thought or two.
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  35. #35
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    These threads are becoming beyatch slapping grounds
    Welcome to Philly
    it's a big sh*t sandwich and were all gonna have to take a bite

  36. #36
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    You Aussies and your sensitivity!
    I've got your inspiration right here! [shakes fist menacingly whilst stifling chuckle]

    I think the level of bullsh!t that gets slung around in online MTB forums is inversely related to the number of daylight hours in a given day. Shorter days mean less riding (for most) and, thus, people can't always get their daily/weekly riding fix. Makes for short tempers and too much reading into posts and, in some cases, one or two 'regulars' become fixated on pointing out perceived flaws in others. Boils down to 'too much reading/posting and not enough pedaling.

    I know that may sound ridiculous but, as a long-time "resident" of MTBR, I think there's some truth to it. Then again, some people online are just insane to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    cant we leave it alone (the sledging of any form). These threads are becoming beyatch slapping grounds rather than inspirational exchange of idea's, cool places to ride and riding with newly met riding buddies
    I know people get frustrated, very frustrated at times but one must remember that these threads DONT offer the comfort of allowing us to express different tones and expressions when we post.
    Just a thought or two.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  37. #37
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    You Aussies and your sensitivity!
    I've got your inspiration right here! [shakes fist menacingly whilst stifling chuckle]

    I think the level of bullsh!t that gets slung around in online MTB forums is inversely related to the number of daylight hours in a given day. Shorter days mean less riding (for most) and, thus, people can't always get their daily/weekly riding fix. Makes for short tempers and too much reading into posts and, in some cases, one or two 'regulars' become fixated on pointing out perceived flaws in others. Boils down to 'too much reading/posting and not enough pedaling.

    I know that may sound ridiculous but, as a long-time "resident" of MTBR, I think there's some truth to it. Then again, some people online are just insane to begin with.
    That's excellent! Best thing I've heard in months.

    He's from OZ? I worked for an Aussie company for three years and there alwys pleasant and mellow folk. They sure liked their beer, though.

  38. #38
    Trail eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Boils down to 'too much reading/posting and not enough pedaling.

    You are probably right.

    When is our next pedal Sunday is out for me, promised a buddy I would hang with his south philly posse. Sat is good for me. Anyone else?

    electric
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  39. #39
    Freshly Fujified
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    I blame Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    You Aussies and your sensitivity!
    I've got your inspiration right here! [shakes fist menacingly whilst stifling chuckle]

    I think the level of bullsh!t that gets slung around in online MTB forums is inversely related to the number of daylight hours in a given day. Shorter days mean less riding (for most) and, thus, people can't always get their daily/weekly riding fix. Makes for short tempers and too much reading into posts and, in some cases, one or two 'regulars' become fixated on pointing out perceived flaws in others. Boils down to 'too much reading/posting and not enough pedaling.

    I know that may sound ridiculous but, as a long-time "resident" of MTBR, I think there's some truth to it. Then again, some people online are just insane to begin with.
    I'm off to stir some other pot.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  40. #40
    Trail eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    He's from OZ? I worked for an Aussie company for three years and there alwys pleasant and mellow folk. They sure liked their beer, though.
    yeah, us aussies are crazy mellow folk who consume vast volumes of the amber fluid
    Keeps us upright on our bikes
    Climb like a goat, descend like a banshee

  41. #41
    mtbr member
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    Now Boys...Fight Nice !!!

    I thought Bob(Call Me Clyde) would be the voice of reason. -XCBob(another Bob)
    Sir Dabs-alot

  42. #42
    mtbr member
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    Hats off!

    Quote Originally Posted by ride hard or die
    Well we are doing our time .
    Its a start.
    I will talk to you later.
    RIDE HARD or DIE

    Good work.
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

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