Fun at the Wiss!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 175 of 175
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299

    Fun at the Wiss!

    Yay!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fun at the Wiss!-img00287-20111003-1506.jpg  


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fell_brook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    202
    yikes!

  3. #3
    Thumbs Up!
    Reputation: J Ro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    757
    I feel for you. I have walked my bike many miles at the Wis due to a flat or something minor, but that sucks. I hope your OK and that you have available warranty on that frame.
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth"
    Mike Tyson

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    I am fine. Two times in a row I've had to walk my bike home. 7+ mile walk. It sucked. The bike is 1 year old, so I am sure the warranty will cover it. It sounded like a sword being drawn when it happened.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirt_merchant's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    147
    The Wiss is definitely hungry for bike parts these days, with conditions similar to back in the late 90's: tons of loose rocks, ravines, ditches and sharp rocks protruding in the lines... Blew out a couple rear tires lately and had to make trail side repairs, duct taping the holes from the inside of the tire...

    Heard a funny recent quote: " The Wiss is the worlds best urban drainage ditch."
    bike = good

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by dirt_merchant View Post
    The Wiss is definitely hungry for bike parts these days, with conditions similar to back in the late 90's: tons of loose rocks, ravines, ditches and sharp rocks protruding in the lines... Blew out a couple rear tires lately and had to make trail side repairs, duct taping the holes from the inside of the tire...

    Heard a funny recent quote: " The Wiss is the worlds best urban drainage ditch."
    I wouldn't say the Wiss is the cause of the broken frame. It was a defect.

    I honestly don't understand why people make the wiss out to be such a difficult and intense ride. I've been riding my single speed dirt jumper (i.e. hardtail with a 100 mm fork) just fine.

  7. #7
    Lev
    Lev is offline
    You Guys Riding?
    Reputation: Lev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    636
    Quote Originally Posted by dirt_merchant View Post
    The Wiss is definitely hungry for bike parts these days, with conditions similar to back in the late 90's: tons of loose rocks, ravines, ditches and sharp rocks protruding in the lines... Blew out a couple rear tires lately and had to make trail side repairs, duct taping the holes from the inside of the tire...

    Heard a funny recent quote: " The Wiss is the worlds best urban drainage ditch."
    Ha!

    The Wiss = frame destroyer. My bike is the perfect example

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    I wouldn't say the Wiss is the cause of the broken frame. It was a defect.

    I honestly don't understand why people make the wiss out to be such a difficult and intense ride. I've been riding my single speed dirt jumper (i.e. hardtail with a 100 mm fork) just fine.
    Its because you're used to it.

    Think back to your first few rides down in there. Unless your regular ride is Rothrock or somewhere else outside of SE PA there isn't much more technical trail than the Wiss. Combine that with variable conditions everytime it rains: loose rock, sharp rock, sand, mud, roots, drainage ruts, off camber sections, steep drops, steep climbs, broken glass, unleased dogs, an attempted rapist, killer trees (litterally- a branch fell on some poor girl jogging and killed her), angry hikers with the stink eye for bikers, angry dykes on horse back with a stink eye for everybody, and other assorted weirdos wandering the trails, you've got yourself an intimidating place to ride for the uninitiated suburbanite who normally rides State Parks full of butterflies, rainbows and puppy dogs with no worries about someone breaking into their hybrid SUV everytime they park in one of the main lots..
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    11
    What kind of frame is that? Unless you're taking 20ft drops, I really don't see how the Wiss will do that to your bike. I hope some sort of warranty will cover it so you can continue thrashing through Philly's jungle soon. Goodluck!

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    44
    Bubble gum and duck tape will not fix that one. That sucks!

  11. #11
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Schwing?
    Responds to gravity

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Bike is fixed and covered under warranty. They replaced the whole rear. I am currently riding one of my other bikes in california, so it is enjoying a hiatus at the bike shop.

  13. #13
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    broken glass, unleased dogs, an attempted rapist, killer trees (litterally- a branch fell on some poor girl jogging and killed her), angry hikers with the stink eye for bikers, angry dykes on horse back with a stink eye for everybody, and other assorted weirdos wandering the trails, you've got yourself an intimidating place to ride for the uninitiated suburbanite who normally rides State Parks full of butterflies, rainbows and puppy dogs with no worries about someone breaking into their hybrid SUV everytime they park in one of the main lots..
    --Aint that the truth... Last year this fool was letting his dog bite everyone there also.. I had somethin' for him (but never ran into him at that spot).. It was documented on PMBA...

  14. #14
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by 247 View Post
    --Aint that the truth... Last year this fool was letting his dog bite everyone there also.. I had somethin' for him (but never ran into him at that spot).. It was documented on PMBA...
    Great... You guys make The Wiss sound like Detroit!
    I'm riding there tomorrow... I think I'll have to bring some protection!

    Any suggestions for loops or where to park?
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  15. #15
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Great... You guys make The Wiss sound like Detroit!
    I'm riding there tomorrow... I think I'll have to bring some protection!

    Any suggestions for loops or where to park?
    I usually park around West Rittenhouse and Lincoln Drive. Or, on the other end, Northwestern Stables. Never a problem.
    Responds to gravity

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    depends on where you are coming from, but Janette Lane trail head is a good spot - never heard any problems there or any of the trail heads in the Rox neighborhoods are ok. The locals don't seem to tollerate people breaking into cars around there.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  17. #17
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Great... You guys make The Wiss sound like Detroit!
    I'm riding there tomorrow... I think I'll have to bring some protection!

    Any suggestions for loops or where to park?
    It is a little weird there sometimes. Not uncommon to see crack heads wandering the trails. I have a small knife within easy reach at all times, its clipped to my camelback strap.

    Great day yesterday... lots of riders out there but very few walkers and runners.

  18. #18
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    It is a little weird there sometimes. Not uncommon to see crack heads wandering the trails. I have a small knife within easy reach at all times, its clipped to my camelback strap.

    Great day yesterday... lots of riders out there but very few walkers and runners.
    Yeah I saw some strange people there yesterday...
    I carry a medium sized knife in my CamelBak... But I also brought my Walther PPS .40 just in case!

    I saw TONS of runners in the morning... Mostly cute college girls running in large groups.

    I have to say though... I wasn't really impressed with the trail system.
    It was a nice set-up... Well maintained and everything.
    But just not suited to my style of riding!

    Everyone says the Wiss is super technical... But I thought it was just as smooth as White Clay.
    I'm used to riding in super huge rock gardens in French Creek and Bear Creek!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post

    Everyone says the Wiss is super technical... But I thought it was just as smooth as White Clay.
    I'm used to riding in super huge rock gardens in French Creek and Bear Creek!
    Thank you! The Wiss is an easy ride.

  20. #20
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    I thought it was just as smooth as White Clay.
    Um, no.
    Responds to gravity

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Everyone says the Wiss is super technical... But I thought it was just as smooth as White Clay.
    Did you just ride Forbidden Drive or something? LOL.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  22. #22
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Yeah... I think you missed a lot of stuff

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Yeah I saw some strange people there yesterday...
    I carry a medium sized knife in my CamelBak... But I also brought my Walther PPS .40 just in case!

    I saw TONS of runners in the morning... Mostly cute college girls running in large groups.

    I have to say though... I wasn't really impressed with the trail system.
    It was a nice set-up... Well maintained and everything.
    But just not suited to my style of riding!

    Everyone says the Wiss is super technical... But I thought it was just as smooth as White Clay.
    I'm used to riding in super huge rock gardens in French Creek and Bear Creek!

    Well, I agree that the Wiss is not as technical as French Creek or Bear Creek but it is nothing like White Clay.

    Also, I have ridden in the Wis consistently since 1992-1993. I have never felt scared or been threatened by anyone.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    48
    I always ride Wiss with other people but my friend rides there a lot by himself. I've been riding there for 17 years and have never felt threatened or scared either. My friend is takes his kids there almost every weekend for hikes.

    Depending on what trails you take the Wiss can seem smooth and not very technical. It has rocks but not necessarily rock gardens like FC. I think Wiss has more technical uphills compared to FC, they tend to be shorter but steeper than FC. I dab on uphills at Wiss more than I do at FC.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Eckstream- you either missed alot or are one of the best riders around. I've been riding back there since '99 and have yet to clear the loop without one dab and only know a couple people who can do it. There are some sections that are more technical than anything FC has inmo. I ride FC alot also and I think FC and Wiss are actually pretty comparable for the amount of technical- mixed with some nice flow. Niether compares to Middle Run. Middle run is like a fat girl- fun to ride, but you don't want your friends to see you.

    Also, there is alot of weird **** back there, but I have never felt unsafe. I run/ride at night sometimes, xc ski at night when there's snow, am always solo, the only thing you see is a bunch of kids under the bridge having a kegger (they'll usually offer you a beer). I did start carrying pepper spray the last few years - but its for the dogs, not the people, and I still have yet to use it.

    You guys with knives and guns have a false sense of security. You'll never have time to whip it out of your camel back, until you're already getting mangled - you'll also have to be upclose and personal to use a knife. Frankly if someone is that hell bent on committing violence to you, you're better off riding as fast as you can in the other direction. I would recommend the peper spray most regulars carry in their jersey pocket or other quickly accessible place.

    The biggest danger back there is getting your car broken into in the main lots at Wises Mill or Bells Mill, some d-bag's unleashed dog chasing you, or some hiker giving you the stink eye. Park in the Rox neighborhood trail head, be aware of your surroundings, say hello to everyone (even if their a d-bag - it throws them off that you're speaking to them) and you'll have many fun, uneventful rides back there.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  26. #26
    Thumbs Up!
    Reputation: J Ro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by eckstream1 View Post
    yeah i saw some strange people there yesterday...
    I carry a medium sized knife in my camelbak... But i also brought my walther pps .40 just in case!

    I saw tons of runners in the morning... Mostly cute college girls running in large groups. :d

    i have to say though... I wasn't really impressed with the trail system.
    It was a nice set-up... Well maintained and everything.
    But just not suited to my style of riding!

    Everyone says the wiss is super technical... But i thought it was just as smooth as white clay.
    I'm used to riding in super huge rock gardens in french creek and bear creek!
    lmfao
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth"
    Mike Tyson

  27. #27
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by joshhan View Post
    Did you just ride Forbidden Drive or something? LOL.
    No, no, no...

    LOL

    I started at Chestnut Hill College and rode the multi use brown trails to the yellow trail down to Pachella Field.
    The sky to the north was a dark grey and it started to flurry so my buddy and I decided to head back... He was also running short on time and freezing by that point.

    I did see a guy on a Specialized crash on one of the uphills and roll down a slope off the trail... I had no problem clearing that section.

    I realize I didn't ride the whole park... But enough to get a feel for it.

    I'm not the best rider in the world, but I have been riding since '97 and have rode all over the world from East Coast to West Coast and Italy, France and Switzerland and Japan.

    When I talk about rock gardens at French Creek I don't mean the Mill Creek trail that everyone rides... I prefer the Six Penny Trail and Lenape Trail.

    I do want to make it down to the Wiss again and get further south into the park and find the Kitchens Lane Re-Route and a few other trails... So maybe someone would be willing to show me around sometime!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  28. #28
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    You guys with knives and guns have a false sense of security. You'll never have time to whip it out of your camel back, until you're already getting mangled - you'll also have to be upclose and personal to use a knife. Frankly if someone is that hell bent on committing violence to you, you're better off riding as fast as you can in the other direction. I would recommend the peper spray most regulars carry in their jersey pocket or other quickly accessible place.
    Riding away would be my first instinct... As required by law.
    But if I have to I can get to my Walther pretty quick... I carry in a Belly Band. All I have to do is pull my jersey up about 3in and I have clear access to it...

    I hope I never have to use it but you just never know... Same with my spare derailleur hanger I carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  29. #29
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by J Ro View Post
    lmfao


    What's so funny? LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Eckstream - You missed alot of the rockier stuff, which is on the chestnut hill side of the Wiss Creek. The meadows reroute is totally smooth and quite different from the rest of the trails(this would have been at the top of the first big climb off Bells Mills), with the exception of the section at the Kitchen's Lane re-route (they made that like its handicap accessible, but you can rip down it). from what you said you would prefer to ride the sections on chestnut hill side.

    If you came in the same way you described above, go across Bells MIll and pick up the trail and head south, that will take you through some more challenging trail, including the climb to the indian statute (heading south it is hard, heading north it is no problem).

    Enjoy and don't go shooting anybody, ...
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  31. #31
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Eckstream - You missed alot of the rockier stuff, which is on the chestnut hill side of the Wiss Creek. The meadows reroute is totally smooth and quite different from the rest of the trails(this would have been at the top of the first big climb off Bells Mills), with the exception of the section at the Kitchen's Lane re-route (they made that like its handicap accessible, but you can rip down it). from what you said you would prefer to ride the sections on chestnut hill side.

    If you came in the same way you described above, go across Bells MIll and pick up the trail and head south, that will take you through some more challenging trail, including the climb to the indian statute (heading south it is hard, heading north it is no problem).

    Enjoy and don't go shooting anybody, ...
    Thanks for the heads up!
    That should help me next time I get down to the Wiss...

    And don't worry... I don't plan on shooting anyone!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  32. #32
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Riding away would be my first instinct... As required by law.
    But if I have to I can get to my Walther pretty quick... I carry in a Belly Band. All I have to do is pull my jersey up about 3in and I have clear access to it...

    I hope I never have to use it but you just never know... Same with my spare derailleur hanger I carry.
    Wow. I thought he was joking about the pistol. The irony of a visitor bringing a gun to a Philly trail because he heard it was dangerous...too rich.
    Responds to gravity

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fell_brook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    202
    I think my wife wore a belly band when she was pregnant,same thing?

  34. #34
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak View Post
    Wow. I thought he was joking about the pistol. The irony of a visitor bringing a gun to a Philly trail because he heard it was dangerous...too rich.
    Wouldn't it be ironic if I actually had to defend my family and myself against a meth head with a weapon and I didn't have a gun?
    Do you ride with a pump and a spare tube? Because it's the same thing...

    Anyway lets leave politics out of this....
    Thanks for the Neg Rep!

    Quote Originally Posted by fell_brook View Post
    I think my wife wore a belly band when she was pregnant,same thing?
    I'm sure it's similar...
    Does it look like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    I can't figure out how you ride with that thing strapped to your stomach - got to be uncomfortable. A Walther PPS .40 is a hand cannon, its compact but still must have some weight to it - you spend the extra hundred bucks for XTR components with carbon fiber to shave weight and just put it back on carrying around a gun on your belly? Not to mention the fact that the short barrel means you're not going to hit the broad side of a barn unless its within 10yards.

    Eckstream - Since you don't live in Philly - here is some info to make you less scared, so you don't go all Bernie Getz on somebody - the 5th district is one of the safest if not safest hoods in Philly, most of the crime is domestic or simple theft - you can look up the crime stats on the web. I think its been two years or more since there has been a shooting and that was down at the bars on Main. I can't recall when the last murder was, but its prob been 5 years or more and again I think that was robbery in one of the bars on Main.

    There have been a couple assults and an attempted rape - on Forbidden Drive right near Valley Green of all places- I have not heard of anything going on in the upper trails. Think about your general user of the upper trails - fit runners, bikers- people who are fast and strong or both- not your usual prey for criminals; they are like any other predator, they like something easy with good odds of success. they stick to the old, weak, or clueless for the most part. A gun in Wiss is really not necessary.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  36. #36
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Wouldn't it be ironic if I actually had to defend my family and myself against a meth head with a weapon and I didn't have a gun?
    Do you ride with a pump and a spare tube? Because it's the same thing...

    Anyway lets leave politics out of this....
    Thanks for the Neg Rep!



    I'm sure it's similar...
    Does it look like this?

    Two things Eckstream:
    1. I have never neg repped anyone, nor do I plan to. I prefer to tell people how I feel in a more public and less anonymous fashion.
    2. There are very few meth heads in Philly. We prefer crack, PCP, marijuana and alcohol here.
    Responds to gravity

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    90
    Not sure if there is a better place to post, but just wanted to get some local riders thoughts... I ride mostly at the Wiss and then some other local places. Have a hard-tail 29er but I want to pick up a new bike, and was thinking FS 29 (4-5 inches travel) - but I'm worried it would be too much bike for that type of trail. Thoughts?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by tedlove View Post
    Not sure if there is a better place to post, but just wanted to get some local riders thoughts... I ride mostly at the Wiss and then some other local places. Have a hard-tail 29er but I want to pick up a new bike, and was thinking FS 29 (4-5 inches travel) - but I'm worried it would be too much bike for that type of trail. Thoughts?
    I ride my 100 mm hardtail and 120 mm FS and they are both fine at the Wiss. I don't think you'll find 4-5 in travel too much bike for the place.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Funrover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,835
    That sucks, sorry to see the break.

  40. #40
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    I can't figure out how you ride with that thing strapped to your stomach - got to be uncomfortable. A Walther PPS .40 is a hand cannon, its compact but still must have some weight to it - you spend the extra hundred bucks for XTR components with carbon fiber to shave weight and just put it back on carrying around a gun on your belly? Not to mention the fact that the short barrel means you're not going to hit the broad side of a barn unless its within 10yards.
    I carry on a daily basis so I guess I'm just used to the weight... It doesn't flop around in the bellyband or anything so it's pretty comfortable.

    I practice at least once a week and can usually put 17 out of 20 rounds in the ten ring at 20 yards with the Walther (I also shoot 1000yd high power rifle)...

    I didn't mean to get people in a stir here... Where I come from it's completely normal for people to carry for self defense. It is completely LEGAL to carry in Philadelphia and I am licensed to do so. I also live in Reading, Pa where crime is a major problem maybe more so than in Philly... So I always carry. Everywhere I'm legally able to do so...

    Besides... Statistically there were probably several other armed law abiding citizens in the park on the same day. You just didn't know it...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  41. #41
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    I'd like to thank the annonymous person who left me negative rep!

    I think it's funny that someone too scared to leave their name is the one to call me a "deusch bag"...

    You're so cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by tedlove View Post
    Not sure if there is a better place to post, but just wanted to get some local riders thoughts... I ride mostly at the Wiss and then some other local places. Have a hard-tail 29er but I want to pick up a new bike, and was thinking FS 29 (4-5 inches travel) - but I'm worried it would be too much bike for that type of trail. Thoughts?
    I ride a Superfly100 in there and feel that it has to be one of the best bikes for the job. It does everything very well. A Hardtail 29'er is great too, I will compare full loop times once we get back to fairly consistent weather.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    This thread is bumming me out.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    This thread is bumming me out.
    No way! Wiss is good to go. Way too many people (witnesses) frequent that place for there to be any danger. If some kind of goon is out looking for trouble than they have got to be the dumbest a$$ person.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    It's not that. i'm at Wiss all teh time. I've never felt threatened in any way what so ever. I'm not necessarily against carrying a weapon, it's just depressign to me that some people find my favorite riding spot dangerous enough to need to.

  46. #46
    I quit e-MTBR
    Reputation: OldManBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,175
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    It's not that. i'm at Wiss all teh time. I've never felt threatened in any way what so ever. I'm not necessarily against carrying a weapon, it's just depressign to me that some people find my favorite riding spot dangerous enough to need to.
    Captain Bellyband says he carries his gun every day, so I don't think his opinion about how dangerous someplace is means much. Dimwits who carry guns on their waist when they ride scare me a hell of a lot more than his imaginary Wiss meth heads do. I have never heard of any rider carrying a gun in the Wiss, and I'd never ride with one who does.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Captain Bellyband says he carries his gun every day, so I don't think his opinion about how dangerous someplace is means much. Dimwits who carry guns on their waist when they ride scare me a hell of a lot more than his imaginary Wiss meth heads do. I have never heard of any rider carrying a gun in the Wiss, and I'd never ride with one who does.
    To be quite honest, I have seen some sketchy people there, and have turned around to avoid them.

    What I really really dislike are the people who allow their dogs off leash. I don't want to hit your dog, have your dog bite me, or anything else happen.

  48. #48
    Now broadcasting from CO
    Reputation: PAmtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,223
    Was just in the Wiss on Saturday after the snow. It was much fun. I do enjoy riding there the few times I get to per year. There are plenty of fun rock gardens to play around in. On my geared bike in the summer I can clean most/all of them, but Saturday I struggled with the snow on my rigid SS. It was great fun through. Problem is that it's 1.5 hrs from me, and if I'm going to drive 1.5 hrs to ride somewhere on a regular basis, I'm going to the Frederick Watershed 9.5 times out of 10. Definitely like the Wiss though!
    Brought to you by rocks.

  49. #49
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Captain Bellyband says he carries his gun every day, so I don't think his opinion about how dangerous someplace is means much. Dimwits who carry guns on their waist when they ride scare me a hell of a lot more than his imaginary Wiss meth heads do. I have never heard of any rider carrying a gun in the Wiss, and I'd never ride with one who does.
    Tis better to have and not need than to need and not have....
    Why call me a dimwit? Did I call you names? Do you know me? Have you ever met me?
    Narrow minded people like you are dimwits...

    I don't live in an imaginary world... I live in Reading, Pa.
    If you don't know about it then you should read the news...
    Reading was rated the 6th highest in the country for violent crime and murder (per capita)... And a few years ago was the highest rated.

    People say Reading is safe... But the everyday murders and home invasions tell me otherwise.

    So keep in mind that we don't all live in million dollar neighborhoods and have private security details...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  50. #50
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    It's not that. i'm at Wiss all teh time. I've never felt threatened in any way what so ever. I'm not necessarily against carrying a weapon, it's just depressign to me that some people find my favorite riding spot dangerous enough to need to.
    I had no problems at the Wiss... I had a great time!
    However the world is a nasty place and I like to be prepared for things... Just like carrying a spare tube and pump.

    (Also in my case a spare derailleur hanger)
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    To be quite honest, I have seen some sketchy people there, and have turned around to avoid them.

    What I really really dislike are the people who allow their dogs off leash. I don't want to hit your dog, have your dog bite me, or anything else happen.
    I've got to say this seems a little over the top. I have been riding there for a very long time...about 14 years...Never seen a person that caused me to divert from my intended path. Sounds like you've had this occurrence more than once by your wording. Not meaning to be critical, but this just seems odd.

    There was once a homeless cat (I mean dude) that lived out in the woods I believe...I'd see him out, usually when I was riding the Belmont trails that were closer to the Falls Bridge area. We all were familiar with him (other locals), and he was actualy really cool. We'd nod at each other and say hi when we saw each other. He was sorta long haired, grizzled. Stopped seeing him some time ago, hope he has faired OK.

    I have never been bitten by a dog, nor hassled by one at Wiss. Never. On or off the leash. I see plenty of them. I've never been chased by a leashless dog. I think nothing of the dogs, except to say hi to them and their owners. Those dogs on leashes probably wish you were on one. How bad would that suck if you were a dog that just wanted to have a decent time, and you had some strap around your neck with some A-hole on the other end of it, yanking on it...?

    Anyway, your experience might be different, but it almost sounds as if we're riding in different states.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    I had no problems at the Wiss... I had a great time!
    However the world is a nasty place and I like to be prepared for things... Just like carrying a spare tube and pump.

    (Also in my case a spare derailleur hanger)
    Eck,

    it might be a liberating thing for you to leave your piece locked in its case in your car or home. You just simply are not going to need it here. I promise. You've got a better chance of being assaulted by a falling tree limb. Or hit by a running deer. Seriously.

    If a place was worth riding with a loaded piece, it really wouldn't be worth riding...

    You're out to have fun on your bike. Let down your guard and ride...?

    Just something to think about.

  53. #53
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Eck,

    it might be a liberating thing for you to leave your piece locked in its case in your car or home. You just simply are not going to need it here. I promise. You've got a better chance of being assaulted by a falling tree limb. Or hit by a running deer. Seriously.

    If a place was worth riding with a loaded piece, it really wouldn't be worth riding...

    You're out to have fun on your bike. Let down your guard and ride...?

    Just something to think about.
    As a responsible firearm owner... I would never leave it locked in my car at the Wiss!
    There are seriously hundreds of stories of vehicle break-ins in the trail review... I wouldn't want my firearm used illegally!

    I haven't had a flat tire in over 3 years... But I still carry a tube and pump!

    Rest assured everyone... There is nothing dangerous about me carrying while I ride! There will be no negligent discharges... Or anything like that.

    It's also not about needing it IN the park... But on the way to or from the park or grabbing some food after the ride. You just never know...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    I've got to say this seems a little over the top. I have been riding there for a very long time...about 14 years...Never seen a person that caused me to divert from my intended path. Sounds like you've had this occurrence more than once by your wording. Not meaning to be critical, but this just seems odd.

    There was once a homeless cat (I mean dude) that lived out in the woods I believe...I'd see him out, usually when I was riding the Belmont trails that were closer to the Falls Bridge area. We all were familiar with him (other locals), and he was actualy really cool. We'd nod at each other and say hi when we saw each other. He was sorta long haired, grizzled. Stopped seeing him some time ago, hope he has faired OK.

    I have never been bitten by a dog, nor hassled by one at Wiss. Never. On or off the leash. I see plenty of them. I've never been chased by a leashless dog. I think nothing of the dogs, except to say hi to them and their owners. Those dogs on leashes probably wish you were on one. How bad would that suck if you were a dog that just wanted to have a decent time, and you had some strap around your neck with some A-hole on the other end of it, yanking on it...?

    Anyway, your experience might be different, but it almost sounds as if we're riding in different states.
    Lucky you to not have negative experiences. Ask the guy who got his head bashed in by some thugs in the fall down on Forbidden Drive...

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Why is everyone giving this guy such a hard time about carrying a gun legally? Are you gonna attack him? If so, well now you know you might get shot. Otherwise, why is it your business? I doubt he is going to start twirling it around while riding down the trail... Actually, I think it'd be kinda funny if he did. You guys have no idea how many people have guns and other weapons on them. Bet you a bunch of people who have broken into cars in and around the wiss have had some sort of weapon on them.

  56. #56
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post

    I have never been bitten by a dog, nor hassled by one at Wiss. Never. On or off the leash. I see plenty of them. I've never been chased by a leashless dog. I think nothing of the dogs, except to say hi to them and their owners. Those dogs on leashes probably wish you were on one. How bad would that suck if you were a dog that just wanted to have a decent time, and you had some strap around your neck with some A-hole on the other end of it, yanking on it...?

    Anyway, your experience might be different, but it almost sounds as if we're riding in different states.
    I've been riding there since 94. Have been bitten once (not seriously) and chased/nipped at my heels many times. Unfortunately for every person that has their properly trained dogs on those trails there are 3 that don't have a clue. Bottom line - rules say the dogs need to be leashed and don't say I need to be leashed. If a dog chases me I'm going to tell the owner where to stick it. I make a point to thank owners who have dogs trained well enough that they don't even give me a second glance.

    Back in 2004-5, when I actually lived in manayunk and was riding there 3-4 times a week in the summer, I had a group of 4 kids step out in front of me on the trail and say that they wanted my bike. Not little kids, decent sized kids - 11th, 12th graders. Right as I had to decide to fight or try to run a group of 2 riders came around the corner and the kids turned away and started walking. Thats why I have the knife - a little something is better than nothing. There's a surplus of douschy wanna-be gangster kids in that area. Most other riding spots in the region don't have that element right across the street.

  57. #57
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    Why is everyone giving this guy such a hard time about carrying a gun legally? Are you gonna attack him? If so, well now you know you might get shot. Otherwise, why is it your business? I doubt he is going to start twirling it around while riding down the trail... Actually, I think it'd be kinda funny if he did. You guys have no idea how many people have guns and other weapons on them. Bet you a bunch of people who have broken into cars in and around the wiss have had some sort of weapon on them.
    Thanks for the support! Rep coming your way as soon as I can leave more rep...



    And to all the naysayers out there... You don't think you'll ever need protection on a trail?
    Well here ya go... I live less than 2mi from this trail and ride it on a weekly basis!
    Read the article!

    Police at scene of shooting in West Reading

    "Dispatchers are reporting that the man with the gun was riding on the trail when the two suspects approached him and tried to rob him. The shooter told police he had a gun and shot the two men in self-defense"

    Just happened today...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    As a responsible firearm owner... I would never leave it locked in my car at the Wiss!
    There are seriously hundreds of stories of vehicle break-ins in the trail review... I wouldn't want my firearm used illegally!

    I haven't had a flat tire in over 3 years... But I still carry a tube and pump!

    Rest assured everyone... There is nothing dangerous about me carrying while I ride! There will be no negligent discharges... Or anything like that.

    It's also not about needing it IN the park... But on the way to or from the park or grabbing some food after the ride. You just never know...
    You know what? I don't think that anyone thinks that 'you're' dangerous. What I think is going through the majority of the heads in here, with the exception of those those that are giving you kudos, is that it is a sad thing that you feel the need to walk around 'strapped' at all times. (i'm not saying that to sound flippant or insulting, so don't take it that way, it's just a realistic statement).

    I'm all about having second ammendment rights, and keeping them. I grew up hunting, shooting (auto, semi, single round, archery...and I am a damned good mark). I also believe in defending oneself, with force if necessary.

    But riding at Wiss with a gun strapped to your gut...so you're ready for 'anything' that may or may not happen is just plain overkill. No other way to put it. Same goes for the idea that 'something' might go down at the store. This isn't Detroit.

    If cosmic law is ever at work or even legitimate (not sure if I believe in that sort of thing although some folks do), it would stand to reason that if something does take place, it's because you are attracting it. Again, I don't believe in that, and seriously doubt that you will ever need a piece while riding at Wiss, or Belmont.

    Have there been crimes commited at Wiss? Yes. What's the probability of it happening to anyone at any given time? Can't say statistically, but would bet the odds are pretty low. Probably right there with getting struck by lightening.

    Another point is that, if something does go down, either at Wiss, or at the A-plus market or somewhere like that, are you going to be able to ready your weapon and actually do a damned thing with it? No offense, but I seriously doubt it. That's not meant personally towards you. I doubt many people in that sort of circumstance are going to be able to do a damned thing, except for maybe get themselves killed if the offender is also packing.

    We all wish we were Josey Wales, but alas we're not. Not even close.

    Anyway, you are going to carry if you want to carry. It's your right, and your prerogative. I support that right, I just think you're over the top and it saddens me because I don't think you personally need it, at Wiss or in Reading.

  59. #59
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    It is sad... It really is.
    The world is going to hell in a handbasket... And quick.


    But protecting myself and my family is better than the alternative...
    Being killed...
    Or never leaving a "Safe Room"...

    See my above post...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  60. #60
    I quit e-MTBR
    Reputation: OldManBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,175
    Man shoots himself in the penis after tucking fiancée's pink pistol in his waist band

    By Daily Mail Reporter

    Last updated at 8:34 PM on 9th August 2011

    A suburban Phoenix man is recovering after accidentally shooting himself in the penis while putting his fiancee's pink gun in the waistband of his pants.

    Chandler police say 27-year-old Joshua Seto and his fiancee Cara Christopher were walking toward a grocery store when the shooting happened last week.

    The gun fired, striking Mr Seto's penis and continuing through his left thigh.

    Ms Christopher, 26, who called 911, can be heard telling a dispatcher 'He's still conscious, there is just a lot of blood,' in tapes released by MyFoxPhoenix.

    The operator told Ms Christopher to apply direct pressure to the wound with a dry towel or T-shirt and avoid looking at it.

    Ms Christopher, sounding surprisingly calm, said: 'I did look at it. It's pretty bad.'

    The shooting took place at approximately 7:30pm on Tuesday on the 900 block of W Elliot Road near the Fry's Food & Drug store.

    Chandler Police Detective Seth Tyler was unsure of the type of gun, or whether it had a safety that was off.

    He also said it is unclear if Mr Seto has been released from the hospital or suffered any permanent damage.

    The man also face charges.

    'The case agent is still determining that,' Det Tyler said.

    In the wake of the shooting, Det Tyler warned residents to use holsters, not waistbands, if they are going to carry a handgun.

    'Whenever you handle a firearm, whether you are a novice or experienced, always treat firearms as though they are loaded. If you are going to carry a handgun on your person, use a holster, not your waistband,' he said.

    --------------

    Then there's this guy: Man Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Testicles

    And this guy: GLOCK Accidental Discharge?

    And these guys: Man killed by his own concealed weapon

    Watch out. If you shoot your penis off, Bellyband might cancel your sponsorship.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I've been riding there since 94. Have been bitten once (not seriously) and chased/nipped at my heels many times. Unfortunately for every person that has their properly trained dogs on those trails there are 3 that don't have a clue. Bottom line - rules say the dogs need to be leashed and don't say I need to be leashed. If a dog chases me I'm going to tell the owner where to stick it. I make a point to thank owners who have dogs trained well enough that they don't even give me a second glance.

    Back in 2004-5, when I actually lived in manayunk and was riding there 3-4 times a week in the summer, I had a group of 4 kids step out in front of me on the trail and say that they wanted my bike. Not little kids, decent sized kids - 11th, 12th graders. Right as I had to decide to fight or try to run a group of 2 riders came around the corner and the kids turned away and started walking. Thats why I have the knife - a little something is better than nothing. There's a surplus of douschy wanna-be gangster kids in that area. Most other riding spots in the region don't have that element right across the street.
    You need to be leashed...(sorry, you baited me, just messing around with you)

    Well, I'm sure that the owners that get thanks from you can sleep better at night. All that training of their dog(s) paid off. ( The point I'm trying to make is this...I myself would find it insulting if some hiker took it upon him or herself to thank me for not mowing them down, which I never do anyway, because it would come off as condescending, and I would be left wondering just who the f*** they thought they were, as if they were some sort of authority. Maybe that's not how you're coming off to the owners, but chances are...let's be honest.)

    Honestly the areas where the aggrevation between users comes in is where the different types of trail users have this sort of "righteous indignace" about their right to use the trails with out the bothers of other users. Hikers don't like the bikers, bikers don't like the hikers, bikers don't want to be even looked at by dogs etc. etc. etc. This is the truth to varying degree, depending on the tempermant and self-absorbtion of each user. On one end, you have totally laid back folks who are just simply happy to say hi to anyone, be curteous and respectful of others regardless of their mode of use or whether they have dogs, leashed or not. On the other end, you have your general snoot that thinks that everyone should cater to 'their' experience while out there. I classify myself as the former. I am friendly to all. I slow down, I say hello. Sometimes I stop and talk. I pet dogs. Sometimes it's a bummer to have to slow down on a nice section that you were lookig forward to, but that's life, and it's called common curtouesy.

    In all reality, I have more of an issue with other cyclists out there that seem to have the whole 'better than you' attitude going, than with anyone else. Some knobs a couple weeks ago were giving my wife and me the stare down for some reason, and then the frosty glare when she dabbed in front of them...on a section that they themselves couldn't clean...I was nice and smiley to them prior to that, (while riding right through what they couldn't) but after she told me of that, I wanted to ride with them the entire time so that I could have made fools of them.

    In regards to your being toughed by some students, sorry to hear about that. Since '97 I have never had such an occurrence. Had some close calls with some BIG deer, but never with anyone. (Back when I was racing, and training there a lot more often, I actually had an mid-aged woman stop me and comment about how 'big my legs muscles' were. She had that look in her eye.) But, no, never have I felt worried about a single person I have crossed out there. Maybe I'm lucky?

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Man shoots himself in the penis after tucking fiancée's pink pistol in his waist band

    By Daily Mail Reporter

    Last updated at 8:34 PM on 9th August 2011

    A suburban Phoenix man is recovering after accidentally shooting himself in the penis while putting his fiancee's pink gun in the waistband of his pants.

    Chandler police say 27-year-old Joshua Seto and his fiancee Cara Christopher were walking toward a grocery store when the shooting happened last week.

    The gun fired, striking Mr Seto's penis and continuing through his left thigh.

    Ms Christopher, 26, who called 911, can be heard telling a dispatcher 'He's still conscious, there is just a lot of blood,' in tapes released by MyFoxPhoenix.

    The operator told Ms Christopher to apply direct pressure to the wound with a dry towel or T-shirt and avoid looking at it.

    Ms Christopher, sounding surprisingly calm, said: 'I did look at it. It's pretty bad.'

    The shooting took place at approximately 7:30pm on Tuesday on the 900 block of W Elliot Road near the Fry's Food & Drug store.

    Chandler Police Detective Seth Tyler was unsure of the type of gun, or whether it had a safety that was off.

    He also said it is unclear if Mr Seto has been released from the hospital or suffered any permanent damage.

    The man also face charges.

    'The case agent is still determining that,' Det Tyler said.

    In the wake of the shooting, Det Tyler warned residents to use holsters, not waistbands, if they are going to carry a handgun.

    'Whenever you handle a firearm, whether you are a novice or experienced, always treat firearms as though they are loaded. If you are going to carry a handgun on your person, use a holster, not your waistband,' he said.

    --------------

    Then there's this guy: Man Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Testicles

    And this guy: GLOCK Accidental Discharge?

    And these guys: Man killed by his own concealed weapon

    Watch out. If you shoot your penis off, Bellyband might cancel your sponsorship.
    Ha! His 'gun' will never shoot again and his fiance will surely be looking elsewhere. Bet the world on it. The fact the gun was pink is interesting I suppose. Or maybe not.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    It is sad... It really is.
    The world is going to hell in a handbasket... And quick.


    But protecting myself and my family is better than the alternative...
    Being killed...
    Or never leaving a "Safe Room"...

    See my above post...
    Saw it. Doesn't prove that using deadly force with a gun was merited. But, I will venture to guess that even if not, the shooter will have no problems for social reasons. Again just guessing.

    This also doesn't prove that packing in Reading is a worthy endeavor.

    ***edit.

    I guess the thing in analyzation here is the proposition that there are only two choices...Either pack heat all the time, everywhere, (seems like an SNL short could be made from this: Picture an entire family strapped with pieces, even the baby, while at a picnic or something other other...an acorn drops and they all go into commando mode...discuss) or never leave a ' Safe Room'.

    Seems bleak. Unnecessarily so.
    Last edited by jochribs; 01-25-2012 at 12:05 PM.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    Why is everyone giving this guy such a hard time about carrying a gun legally? Are you gonna attack him? If so, well now you know you might get shot. Otherwise, why is it your business? I doubt he is going to start twirling it around while riding down the trail... Actually, I think it'd be kinda funny if he did. You guys have no idea how many people have guns and other weapons on them. Bet you a bunch of people who have broken into cars in and around the wiss have had some sort of weapon on them.
    Maybe they do. I just find it odd that I have not had any real confrontaions with them...

  65. #65
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Man shoots himself in the penis after tucking fiancée's pink pistol in his waist band

    By Daily Mail Reporter

    Last updated at 8:34 PM on 9th August 2011

    A suburban Phoenix man is recovering after accidentally shooting himself in the penis while putting his fiancee's pink gun in the waistband of his pants.


    Then there's this guy: Man Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Testicles

    And this guy: GLOCK Accidental Discharge?

    And these guys: Man killed by his own concealed weapon

    Watch out. If you shoot your penis off, Bellyband might cancel your sponsorship.

    Well now, obviously you missed the point!
    In all but one of your examples, the accidental discharge was caused by carrying a loaded weapon without a holster, in a waistband... An improper way to carry.

    In your other example the guy was reholstering his weapon... More improper handling!
    Your firearm should NEVER clear leather unless you intend to use it!

    But I guess you just can't fix stupid...

    Which brings me back to you...

    So instead of answering my questions you chose to deflect and post unrelated articles...
    You have constantly trolled this thread with your self rightous veiws...
    And you have failed to properly present your evidence on why a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN is a danger to OTHER PEOPLE while they are carrying.

    If you want to live in a gun free society you're more than welcome....
    Move to England or Austrailia... See how well it works to prevent violent crime

    I am done with you...
    /ownage
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    Lucky you to not have negative experiences. Ask the guy who got his head bashed in by some thugs in the fall down on Forbidden Drive...
    Sorry missed this one,

    Yes lucky me. Guess I dodged that bullet and still have time to get strapped, huh?

    The world isn't so scary, me thinks...

  67. #67
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Sorry missed this one,

    Yes lucky me. Guess I dodged that bullet and still have time to get strapped, huh?

    The world isn't so scary, me thinks...
    Think some more...

    The guy that got his head bashed in was assualted by several people...
    They didn't bother to rob him...
    They just assualted him for "fun"...


    Elderly victim waved to attackers before Forbidden Drive assault

    84-year-old attacked by 4 in Fairmount Park | 6abc.com
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Sorry missed this one,

    Yes lucky me. Guess I dodged that bullet and still have time to get strapped, huh?

    The world isn't so scary, me thinks...
    If you so choose to, then go right ahead. Learn how to handle it and respect the responsibility that comes with carrying.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    If you so choose to, then go right ahead. Learn how to handle it and respect the responsibility that comes with carrying.
    Cicatrix.

    I have more gun responsibility and handling experience than you will ever have. I promise you that. But thanks for your condescending retort to my pointed sarcasm about feeling the 'need' to be strapped while at Wissahickon.

    Let me know when you want to go to the range...

  70. #70
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    You need to be leashed...(sorry, you baited me, just messing around with you)

    Well, I'm sure that the owners that get thanks from you can sleep better at night. All that training of their dog(s) paid off. ( The point I'm trying to make is this...I myself would find it insulting if some hiker took it upon him or herself to thank me for not mowing them down, which I never do anyway, because it would come off as condescending, and I would be left wondering just who the f*** they thought they were, as if they were some sort of authority. Maybe that's not how you're coming off to the owners, but chances are...let's be honest.)
    Christ dude - of course hikers aren't thanking you for not mowing them down. Trail rules and common courtesy around the world says you're not supposed to run people down. Again - leash rules exist because most people don't have their dogs trained to handle unexpected stimulus. Dogs don't have common sense to think "maybe I shouldn't stick my face in these spokes".

    People that take the time to train their dogs don't find a compliment condescending at all. They've put effort into it. People like when others notice their results. These are people that are out on the trails regularly - a few I've talked to do the whole spectrum of activities - hiking, running, riding... with the dogs.

    The people that have dogs that chase bikers and other people are clearly not regular "outdoors" types. They go out for a nature walk with the family once a year and they let the dogs off leash because "we're out in the woods, it's safe". This what you get at the wiss on weekends. Its in a major metropolitan area. I never see this stuff happen at more remote places like fair hill or french creek. People that go out of their way to places like that know how to handle themselves, and their dogs. Generally.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Think some more...

    The guy that got his head bashed in was assualted by several people...
    They didn't bother to rob him...
    They just assualted him for "fun"...


    Elderly victim waved to attackers before Forbidden Drive assault

    84-year-old attacked by 4 in Fairmount Park | 6abc.com
    Eck,

    I'm thinking. And I am thinking some more. Still not scared. Think I'm going to go for a night ride in fact. I'll bring my shock pump, some HEED. Maybe a tube. I really don't get flats though...

    That being said, I think what happened there is disgusting. No two ways about it.

    I still don't feel the need to carry while at Wiss. And I never will.

    Which brings up the question...why did you even feel the need to inform the forum that you were carrying at our trails? What was the point of that? It seems a little needy, if i may say so. No one needed to know that you were going to be riding along with your side arm attached to your gut. It actually seems a little irresponsible to broadcast such information.

    I get the feeling that you aren't the type that is carrying because you feel threatened or unsafe. I have a pretty good hunch that you're of the sort that is carrying and hoping for the ability to use it. The underlying reason for that is most likely hate.

    Could be wrong,

    but I doubt it.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Christ dude - of course hikers aren't thanking you for not mowing them down. Trail rules and common courtesy around the world says you're not supposed to run people down. Again - leash rules exist because most people don't have their dogs trained to handle unexpected stimulus. Dogs don't have common sense to think "maybe I shouldn't stick my face in these spokes".

    People that take the time to train their dogs don't find a compliment condescending at all. They've put effort into it. People like when others notice their results. These are people that are out on the trails regularly - a few I've talked to do the whole spectrum of activities - hiking, running, riding... with the dogs.

    The people that have dogs that chase bikers and other people are clearly not regular "outdoors" types. They go out for a nature walk with the family once a year and they let the dogs off leash because "we're out in the woods, it's safe". This what you get at the wiss on weekends. Its in a major metropolitan area. I never see this stuff happen at more remote places like fair hill or french creek. People that go out of their way to places like that know how to handle themselves, and their dogs. Generally.

    Fellow V-dub appreciater...

    if I were there and walking my dog, and you said 'thanks for having your dog trained' to me, I'd tell you to shove it up your ass. There is no way that a person is going to appreciate a condescending 'compliment' like that.

    And you missed the connection that I was trying to make between not mowing down hikers and dogs not running wild.

    Anyway, this is getting ridiculous.

    I'm going to concede here and maybe next weekend set up a table by the Inn. On the table will be complimentary dog leashes and Belly Bands...

    See you folks on the trails.

    ***oh, also on the complimentary table will be exclusive, 20% off coupons for "Safe Room" construction. But they will have an expiration date, so don't dally too long on that one.
    Last edited by jochribs; 01-26-2012 at 08:57 AM.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Cicatrix.

    I have more gun responsibility and handling experience than you will ever have. I promise you that. But thanks for your condescending retort to my pointed sarcasm about feeling the 'need' to be strapped while at Wissahickon.

    Let me know when you want to go to the range...
    I had no idea all of this was really about who is the more manly man.

  74. #74
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post

    Which brings up the question...why did you even feel the need to inform the forum that you were carrying at our trails? What was the point of that? No one needed to know that you were going to be riding along with your side arm attached to your gut. It actually seems a little irresponsible to broadcast such information.

    I get the feeling that you aren't the type that is carrying because you feel threatened or unsafe. I have a pretty good hunch that you're of the sort that is carrying and hoping for the ability to use it. The underlying reason for that is most likely hate.

    Could be wrong,

    but I doubt it.
    Irresponsible? I don't think so... In fact if I were to openly carry, as in not hide it, I would still be within the laws set forth by our state... And everyone would have been able to see it.

    While this may not be the smartest thing to do, I still have the right to do so... Why can't people understand that?

    I hope I never need to defend my life with lethal force... I really do. But when it comes down to it... It's either them or me. And it sure won't be me if I can help it.

    I also don't hate anyone... I would prefer that the world could straighten itself out and I wouldn't have to carry. But that just isn't the way things are. The cold hard reality is that the world is a dirty dangerous place... And I realize that and choose to be aware of that fact and never forget it.

    For all you know... I could be the victim of a violent crime. Maybe someone broke into my house and tied my family up... And did terrible things. Maybe I decided that I would no longer be a victim and thought long and hard about my options...

    So instead of pointing fingers and getting all self rightous, maybe you should look at how you are coming off... You could be the irresponsible one for not understanding why some people do things.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    I had no idea all of this was really about who is the more manly man.
    Really Cica? Trying to back pedal and take the passive high road all of a sudden? Your comment was intened to condescend, most likely because you had nothing better to say, yet needed some sort of last word to redeem your frightened view.

    I was not saying I am more manly, (although I probably am, in all honesty. You change direction when you see people that make your rear tighten up), I was simply saying that since you see the need to inform me of how I should carry (as if I would), you can come to the range with me and eat your words. Period.

    As I stated in an earlier post, I am in support of gun rights. I grew up shooting and have multiple fire arms. I think it is moronic however, to ride around in Wissahickon with a gun. Period.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Really Cica? Trying to back pedal and take the passive high road all of a sudden? Your comment was intened to condescend, most likely because you had nothing better to say, yet needed some sort of last word to redeem your frightened view.

    I was not saying I am more manly, (although I probably am, in all honesty. You change direction when you see people that make your rear tighten up), I was simply saying that since you see the need to inform me of how I should carry (as if I would), you can come to the range with me and eat your words. Period.

    As I stated in an earlier post, I am in support of gun rights. I grew up shooting and have multiple fire arms. I think it is moronic however, to ride around in Wissahickon with a gun. Period.
    Actually my comment was not condescending, you just read it that way. I'm not back pedaling, just curious why you felt the need to posture and insult people. I mean I could very easily insult you because you are leaving yourself wide open, but I'm not going to.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Irresponsible? I don't think so... In fact if I were to openly carry, as in not hide it, I would still be within the laws set forth by our state... And everyone would have been able to see it.

    While this may not be the smartest thing to do, I still have the right to do so... Why can't people understand that?

    I hope I never need to defend my life with lethal force... I really do. But when it comes down to it... It's either them or me. And it sure won't be me if I can help it.

    I also don't hate anyone... I would prefer that the world could straighten itself out and I wouldn't have to carry. But that just isn't the way things are. The cold hard reality is that the world is a dirty dangerous place... And I realize that and choose to be aware of that fact and never forget it.

    For all you know... I could be the victim of a violent crime. Maybe someone broke into my house and tied my family up... And did terrible things. Maybe I decided that I would no longer be a victim and thought long and hard about my options...

    So instead of pointing fingers and getting all self rightous, maybe you should look at how you are coming off... You could be the irresponsible one for not understanding why some people do things.
    I think that if that did happen, you wouldn't be talking in hypotheticals. Just my take. The world is only as dangerous as you say if you watch Fox...in your head.

    Just because things happen in the world doesn't mean that you are actually in any legitimate risk of the same thing happening to you. For God sakes...at this rate we'll all have Howitzers perched in our front yards....

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    I get the feeling that you aren't the type that is carrying because you feel threatened or unsafe. I have a pretty good hunch that you're of the sort that is carrying and hoping for the ability to use it. The underlying reason for that is most likely hate.
    Wow. Sum up a man's worth based on a few posts on an internet forum. Glad you're not the doorman at the pearly gates or we'd all be screwed.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    Actually my comment was not condescending, you just read it that way. I'm not back pedaling, just curious why you felt the need to posture and insult people. I mean I could very easily insult you because you are leaving yourself wide open, but I'm not going to.
    Posturing? How so?

    And I would say that your 'learn how to carry' comment was certainly meant to be condescending. Don't be disingenuous.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Posturing? How so?

    And I would say that your 'learn how to carry' comment was certainly meant to be condescending. Don't be disingenuous.
    If I were going to be disingenuous I'd call you an asset to the mtbr community...

  81. #81
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    As I stated in an earlier post, I am in support of gun rights. I grew up shooting and have multiple fire arms. I think it is moronic however, to ride around in Wissahickon with a gun. Period.
    Wow... Really?
    Why is it moronic?
    Why would you carry at all if you didn't carry all the time?

    Personally I think it's moronic to carry sometimes, but not all the time...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  82. #82
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    The world is only as dangerous as you say if you watch Fox...in your head.
    In my head huh?

    So none of this actually happened? It was just in my head?

    Man, 65, won't be charged in shooting of two teens
    "the teens went into West Reading and assaulted an elderly man and another man before targeting the bicyclist."
    "Johnson had previous run-ins with the law and skipping school violated his probation, Adams said. Probation officers went to his home Wednesday morning, placed an electronic monitoring device on him and told the other two teens to go back to school, Adams said."

    "Mr. Johnson and the two other juveniles did not go back to school, and Mr. Johnson did not obey his probation officers."

    Had the police done their job... None of this would have happened!

    Police: Store owner exchanges gunfire with armed robbers | News - Home

    Police: Shooting chalked up to 'domestic' dispute | Regional: Berks - Home

    2 suspects arrested, charged in double homicide | Regional: Berks - Home


    I'm amazed that you think these things only exist in my head! All of these examples have occured less than 3mi from my house in less than a week... And there are more examples.

    The fact of the matter is... That I live in a VERY dangerous area. Thats a fact!
    Reading was just rated the poorest city in the COUNTRY...
    Census: Reading, Pa., Has Highest Poverty Rate : NPR

    It was also rated as the 25th most dangerous city in America and the 6th most dangerous with a population between 75,000 and 99,999.
    Comparativly your Philadelphia didn't make the list of "most dangerous" and only made 7th in cities with more than 500,000 population...
    City Crime Rankings by Population Group


    Reading Crime Statistics : Pennsylvania ( PA ) - CityRating.com
    "The city violent crime rate for Reading in 2009 was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 121.81% and the city property crime rate in Reading was higher than the national property crime rate average by 56.38%."



    The fact of the matter is... I live in the "REAL" world. Your "safe" world exists only in your head.

    Now show me statistics that prove me wrong!


    EDIT: No Fox news sources were quoted in this post...


    EDIT EDIT:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ahoidh-VmSw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    If I were going to be disingenuous I'd call you an asset to the mtbr community...
    I'd say then that you clearly don't know the in use definition of 'disingenuous'.

    What you said above is flippant, sarcastic even...but not disingenuous.

    Impressive.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    In my head huh?

    So none of this actually happened? It was just in my head?

    Man, 65, won't be charged in shooting of two teens
    "the teens went into West Reading and assaulted an elderly man and another man before targeting the bicyclist."
    "Johnson had previous run-ins with the law and skipping school violated his probation, Adams said. Probation officers went to his home Wednesday morning, placed an electronic monitoring device on him and told the other two teens to go back to school, Adams said."

    "Mr. Johnson and the two other juveniles did not go back to school, and Mr. Johnson did not obey his probation officers."

    Had the police done their job... None of this would have happened!

    Police: Store owner exchanges gunfire with armed robbers | News - Home

    Police: Shooting chalked up to 'domestic' dispute | Regional: Berks - Home

    2 suspects arrested, charged in double homicide | Regional: Berks - Home


    I'm amazed that you think these things only exist in my head! All of these examples have occured less than 3mi from my house in less than a week... And there are more examples.

    The fact of the matter is... That I live in a VERY dangerous area. Thats a fact!
    Reading was just rated the poorest city in the COUNTRY...
    Census: Reading, Pa., Has Highest Poverty Rate : NPR

    It was also rated as the 25th most dangerous city in America and the 6th most dangerous with a population between 75,000 and 99,999.
    Comparativly your Philadelphia didn't make the list of "most dangerous" and only made 7th in cities with more than 500,000 population...
    City Crime Rankings by Population Group


    Reading Crime Statistics : Pennsylvania ( PA ) - CityRating.com
    "The city violent crime rate for Reading in 2009 was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 121.81% and the city property crime rate in Reading was higher than the national property crime rate average by 56.38%."



    The fact of the matter is... I live in the "REAL" world. Your "safe" world exists only in your head.

    Now show me statistics that prove me wrong!


    EDIT: No Fox news sources were quoted in this post...


    EDIT EDIT:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ahoidh-VmSw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    I never said that things don't happen in the world. I actually said the opposite. I also said that the probability of it actually happening to you is remote. Your town is a sh**hole, and that sucks. I am sorry about that.

    I'll sum it up with this. You obviously take Reading with you, everywhere you go. Your mentality and obvious need of some psychological help is astounding. I don't know how else to say it. You have some dark shades on...you see everything through those dark shades. Your view of reality is no more valid than mine or anyone elses that does not see the world as a friggin warzone.

    Remember Eck, this whole 'off topic' debate got rolling because you felt it necessary to inform us all that you were riding at our local trails with a gun strapped to your gut. I asked this before but I don't think that you've said anything in response...What was the point in that telling everyone that. Were you looking for some sort of admiration? Were you looking to impress people? What (honestly, seriously...) was your intention and motivation in telling us all that?

    Strap your cold steel to your belly, and don't yap about it. (ie...STFU) NO ONE would have given a rats ass had you not told everyone that you were doing it, as if you were going to get some sort of standing ovation. "Hip, hip, hoorah...Eck is riding at Wiss with a gun everyone! Let's throw him a warm reception!"

    Good greif.

    Leave Reading in Reading. Will ya please John Wayne?

    ***Also, I hate to say this, and don't wish this on you in any way, shape or form...but I think the probability of you getting shot is pretty high. You're gonna pull on someone that is faster and way more disrespectful of life, and life is gonna come to an end.

    If you ever find yourself where you want to use that thing, I hope that you have a moment of clarity and decide to leave that thing concealed. It will probably keep you on the side of the living.

    And your news links are really not swaying me.

    ***edit...but kudos on the Family Guy. Love that show. They should do a show about guys that carry guns EVERYWHERE. You know that Seth would really make a hilarious mockery of that...

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Oh and Eck,

    what an absolute coward you are. Giving me negative rep because you don't like what Im saying.

    Your avatar and sig say it all. Classy.

  86. #86
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Great... You guys make The Wiss sound like Detroit!
    I'm riding there tomorrow... I think I'll have to bring some protection!

    Any suggestions for loops or where to park?
    My original post... Just says "protection"

    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    It is a little weird there sometimes. Not uncommon to see crack heads wandering the trails. I have a small knife within easy reach at all times, its clipped to my camelback strap.

    Great day yesterday... lots of riders out there but very few walkers and runners.
    He was the first to mention a weapon... Why not rip on him?

    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    I think that if that did happen, you wouldn't be talking in hypotheticals. Just my take. The world is only as dangerous as you say if you watch Fox...in your head.
    Just because things happen in the world doesn't mean that you are actually in any legitimate risk of the same thing happening to you. For God sakes...at this rate we'll all have Howitzers perched in our front yards....
    I believe you did say Reading isn't as dangerous as I think... But I'm done arguing semantics.
    I don't believe I need psycological help because I choose to carry... It is my right to do so under state law.
    Just because YOU think noone should carry does not mean that I need psycological help... So get off your soapbox buddy. You are the one in here stirring the pot... Everyone else let it go. Why can't you?

    The fact of the matter remains that I (not you) am 121.81% more likely to be a victim of violent crime... And that is all the justification I (not you) need to carry.

    EDIT: About the leave Reading in Reading comment...
    I believe my permit allows me to carry ANYWHERE in Pennsylvania and several other states (23 to be exact)... Until you get in the state legislature and change the law I will continue to carry where I damn well please!

    EDIT EDIT: Are you not an American? Are you not patriotic? Does the 1st amendment mean nothing to you? Freedom of speech is guarenteed by the same piece of paper that guarentees my 2nd amendment...
    Last edited by Eckstream1; 01-26-2012 at 07:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  87. #87
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Oh and Eck,

    what an absolute coward you are. Giving me negative rep because you don't like what Im saying.

    Your avatar and sig say it all. Classy.
    Oh... I'm a coward for SIGNING my negative rep?


    Yes my avatar fits me... My sig is just a quote that I thought was funny!

    Dude, you're beginning to sound desperate...


    /Ownage


    EDIT: I believe I + repped you in an earlier post... So that neg just cancels it out.
    Go and cry about it...

    EDIT EDIT: I neg repped you because YOU are trying to FORCE YOUR beliefs on people... I did nothing wrong or illegal and YOU are ripping on me for it.
    Maybe you are the one that needs help...
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  88. #88
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Oh and Eck,

    what an absolute coward you are. Giving me negative rep because you don't like what Im saying.

    Your avatar and sig say it all. Classy.
    Oh and joc,

    I think I just figured you out...

    You're a bike thief and you're affraid of armed riders!

    See, I can make uneducated guesses too!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckstream1 View Post
    Yeah I saw some strange people there yesterday...
    I carry a medium sized knife in my CamelBak... But I also brought my Walther PPS .40 just in case!
    Actually this is what you said. I'm pretty sure that you are derranged based on your rapid fire stream of responses which are manipulating my comments. Debating with you is pointless, but here are my last words.

    And HA!!!

    You've now removed your dirtbag sig about 'vagina's', and have replaced it with a purposeful misrepresentation of what I said. I'm actually honored that you have done that! Funny, can't taste those words that I have supposedly eaten.

    Your 'need' to carry is infact in your head. There are plenty of folks around you that aren't carrying and will fare no worse for not doing so. That is my point, that was my point, and you know it. The fact that you have taken what I was saying and warped it for your own childish chest thumping is pathetic and lacks of any real integrity.

    Which then brings me to this point. A guy like you is the worst kind of guy to have a gun. You're clearly a coward, and cowards and guns don't make for a good combination. As I stated multiple times before, I am entirely for havng gun rights. I OWN MYSELF, you goon. But there is something 'off' about you. (This is further evidenced by your flying off the handle because God forbid, your reasoning for carrying while you are riding at local trails that are not your s**thole town is questioned).

    Any person that feels the need to talk about carrying in a mountain bike forum clearly has something to prove. That is where the hang up is. It's not that you reserve the right to carry ( I support that), or that you feel that your town is not safe. It's that 'YOU' personally feel it necessary to tell everyone about it. Your referring to me as desperate smacks of such irony, that it's just not worth the time to illustrate it, and your skull is too thick to comprehend it.

    I foresee you getting yourself into a tight corner, using your gun as a crutch, as you clearly are.

    And don't call me unpatriotic you idiot. People like you throw that accusation around like you have a clue about what it is that your are even talking about. You don't. And the chances of you ever having one are next to nill. I am now positive that you watch FOX. If I were so unpatriotic, why would I be in support of the right to own and carry, as I have stated at least three times now? Why would I own myself? Calling out a guy who broadcasts to the world that he carry's all the time, does not make a fellow gun rights supporter and owner, unpatriotic.

    You are lacking in the grey matter.

    And I'm a bike theif now? Holy Sh*t. That is rich.

    And I haven't even given you negative rep, nor anyone else for that matter. You chump.

    Nice wife-beater, by the way...yikes.

  90. #90
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Debating with you is pointless... .

    Calling out a guy who broadcasts to the world that he carry's all the time, does not make a fellow gun rights supporter and owner, unpatriotic.
    Yes it is...

    In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania I can openly carry, as you know, and have no obligation to conceal. How is that any different than broadcasting to the world that I carry all the time?

    I openly carried all the time in Phoenix, Az... And not one person called me a coward, deranged, dirtbag, childish, pathetic, goon, idiot or chump.

    Either way... Debating with you is also pointless.

    I'd say thanks for the compliment about the wife beater... But you already know I don't care what you think!

    And no... I don't watch FOX.
    I'm a Reuters guy!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  91. #91
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,631
    Please Eckstream1 and jochribs, don't make me read this whole thread.

    pretty please...

    srsly...i do not want to read this whole thread.
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  92. #92
    Nickel Havr
    Reputation: Eckstream1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Please Eckstream1 and jochribs, don't make me read this whole thread.

    pretty please...

    srsly...i do not want to read this whole thread.
    Don't worry... I think we're done here!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: guswalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    193

    what happened to fun in the wise?

    if you guys want to argue passionately about your subject, email each other. both sides of your arguments have merit, but you have started to get personal with your positions and i am getting tired of reading these posts.

    if you want to carry a gun, it is legal and people can object or raise concern. points have been made, but where is it going. we are not going to convince each other to stop riding in certain places or stop carrying so what is the point of the conversation?

    can somebody please post a pic of a ride or a ride report from later on today.
    2017 XL Santa Cruz Tallboy

  94. #94
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    I'm trying to talk myself out of driving down there, it has to be a soupy mess with all the rain this week.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I'm trying to talk myself out of driving down there, it has to be a soupy mess with all the rain this week.
    It is
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fun at the Wiss!-427178_10100621294088543_8230332_51199863_1013980258_n.jpg  


  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: guswalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    193

    riding in am

    i'll try to get out in the am. wife had our first a couple of months ago. sometimes on the weekends i try to get quick rides in the am. if any one sees a lonely rider on a blue EWR, i would love some company.
    probably be out between 9-12. i usually start at the inn on the mount airy side.
    2017 XL Santa Cruz Tallboy

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165

    Trail Closure

    Just a heads up guys, the washed out section just North of the Walnut Ln. Bridge on the East side of the park is fenced off. There is a chain link fence up and heavy equipment is at work. The best thing to do is skip the section by riding on Walnut Ln. and Park Line Dr. I am looking forward to seeing the solution that they put in.

    Also, another heads up, there is no riding in the park from 8pm to 6am due to a night deer hunt. That is scheduled to go on until mid to late March. That information was not widely broadcasted, some people know others don't. Lots of guys packing heat in the park these days!

    I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, if people want to carry than they should carry. The only thing I hope for is that anyone carrying has some training. Whether it's local range classes, military experience, experienced friends, etc. Practice your draw so you can effectively use the weapon and not shoot your pecker off. Don't forget to clean and lube either. Sweat is horrible for firearms.

    The Wissahickon is a phenomenal place to ride. We should never take for granted what we have so close to the city. Every time I go out I am in awe of the trees, rocks, hills and creeks. It has a majestic feeling to me. Anyone else feel that way? Keep the rubber side down guys, see you on the trails!

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    The FCuddy

    Thanks for the info. I hadn't been out in a couple weeks, so wouldn't have known about the fence. Its good that they are fixing it; that section was getting a little dicey squeezing between the manhole cover build up, what was left of the trail, and a pretty good drop on down to the creek.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    The FCuddy

    Thanks for the info. I hadn't been out in a couple weeks, so wouldn't have known about the fence. Its good that they are fixing it; that section was getting a little dicey squeezing between the manhole cover build up, what was left of the trail, and a pretty good drop on down to the creek.
    No problem!

  100. #100
    Less yappin, more Brappin
    Reputation: geoffss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    788
    About 33% slimy mud today out on the trails to the north. Rain the next few days wont help.

    As for saftey at the Wiss, just ride early before the thugs wake up or get out of school, avoid riding the East side trails near the Devil's Pool in the summer, and be careful riding near the bus stop on Ridge and SRT. Most of all be cautious of your surroundings and use cycling shoes to the shins.

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Went on a ride on Saturday morning. Conditions were fine. Went on a section I've never been on. From Valley Green Inn making a left over the bridge going towards Chestnut Hill College. Very rocky terrain over there, especially riding my hardtail. Was fine until going too fast on a long-ish downhill stretch of steps made from stone and crashed hard, cracking my helmet. It felt like I hit my head but I didn't see any dirt on the helmet (like from previous crashes) so I didn't think I damaged anything. Head felt fine too. Got home and felt some pitting on the plastic exterior and that's when I noticed the styrofoam was cracked. Just some bad bruises, friction burns and scrapes.

    And to think, I still have friends who refuse to wear a helmet because it's not comfortable or cool.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  102. #102
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Those steps are fun. But you gotta touch every one with your front tire to keep your rhythm in check, can't go TOO fast. I did what you did once last summer, luckily i saved myself. I'd like to hit them on a 6" travel bike.

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    lots of 29ers out today.

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Those steps are fun. But you gotta touch every one with your front tire to keep your rhythm in check, can't go TOO fast. I did what you did once last summer, luckily i saved myself. I'd like to hit them on a 6" travel bike.
    Yeah, my buddy on a Pivot Firebird flew down those steps no problem. That was my fault for trying to match his speed.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  105. #105
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Hero dirt for the most part today, only a few soft spots. Didn't have to stab anybody

  106. #106
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    Do you mean here? I worry about my Paragon everytime i go that way. It's called 'demo 2'.
    Last edited by 247; 05-16-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by 247 View Post
    Do you mean here? I worry about my Paragon everytime i go that way. It's called 'demo 2'.
    Not 100% sure. I think this might be where I actually fell though.

    around 6:48 if it doesn't link correctly.

    Wissahickon MTB 1/14/2012 - YouTube
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    Since this thread has been jumping all over the place anyway maybe I'll post this here.

    I ride that rocky side regularly on my hardtail. I can usually drop the steps as opposed to just rolling one wheel after the other, but I always wonder what it would be like on a full sus. Any opinions on on this? I'm in the unusual financial position of being able to afford a new bike right now and am having the hardest time deciding if full sus is worth it.

    BTW, wiss was fantastic this past Sunday. Tires were hooking right up in that almost dry soil.

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Since this thread has been jumping all over the place anyway maybe I'll post this here.

    I ride that rocky side regularly on my hardtail. I can usually drop the steps as opposed to just rolling one wheel after the other, but I always wonder what it would be like on a full sus. Any opinions on on this? I'm in the unusual financial position of being able to afford a new bike right now and am having the hardest time deciding if full sus is worth it.

    BTW, wiss was fantastic this past Sunday. Tires were hooking right up in that almost dry soil.
    It is more squishy and comfortable. Most shops will let you demo one, so give it a try yourself and see if you like it.
    Follow my mountain biking blog!

    http://transientmtb.wordpress.com/

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Since this thread has been jumping all over the place anyway maybe I'll post this here.

    I ride that rocky side regularly on my hardtail. I can usually drop the steps as opposed to just rolling one wheel after the other, but I always wonder what it would be like on a full sus. Any opinions on on this? I'm in the unusual financial position of being able to afford a new bike right now and am having the hardest time deciding if full sus is worth it.

    BTW, wiss was fantastic this past Sunday. Tires were hooking right up in that almost dry soil.
    I would imagine if you go down the rocky side on your hardtail, you'll have a blast on a FS. I bet you'll go downhill much faster. After riding that side on my hardtail, going down was almost as much work as going up. I can't wait to hit it with the Fuel.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Since this thread has been jumping all over the place anyway maybe I'll post this here.

    I ride that rocky side regularly on my hardtail. I can usually drop the steps as opposed to just rolling one wheel after the other, but I always wonder what it would be like on a full sus. Any opinions on on this? I'm in the unusual financial position of being able to afford a new bike right now and am having the hardest time deciding if full sus is worth it.

    BTW, wiss was fantastic this past Sunday. Tires were hooking right up in that almost dry soil.
    I broke my hardtail in November so I went and bought a 12' Superfly100 Pro Al. I put about 90 hours on it in 550 miles I now it needs a little work. Coincidentally I just got my hardtail back and did a full loop with it last night. It's a Yeti Big Top, real solid bike. I was used to riding it before I switched up bikes. I felt like a had to reel in my game big time on the hardtail, especially on the descents. Normally I lean back and let the rear end do the work with the FS. That was flat out punishing on the HT! Definitely had to pick lines. I was blown away by how much more I had to stand. I completely forgot what riding the HT was like. The Superfly100 isn't slower climbing and I can pedal it sitting generally no matter what I am riding over, rocks, roots, whatever. The HT will be my dedicated bike for the next few weeks and I am sure I will get used to it but right now I will say my bike of choice for everything is the Superfly100.

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    It is more squishy and comfortable. Most shops will let you demo one, so give it a try yourself and see if you like it.
    Yes, Cicatrix, I kind of assumed the squishy part I did ride a 29er and 26" Anthem around the lot at bike n blade, but that's no way to test suspension.

    Thanks for teh input guys. I think this decision would be easier if I hit Frenchtown and Jim Thorpe more often. Now those trails are ROCKY. Ahh, decisions decisions.

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    It is complete mush now. A huge mud pit. Not that it is a bad thing...
    Follow my mountain biking blog!

    http://transientmtb.wordpress.com/

  114. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    It is complete mush now. A huge mud pit. Not that it is a bad thing...
    It is a bad thing to ride a mountain bike on mush trails.

  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFCuddy View Post
    It is a bad thing to ride a mountain bike on mush trails.
    There is nothing built to ruin there. I'd agree with you if there were berms or other things, but the wiss is completely washed out from last year.
    Follow my mountain biking blog!

    http://transientmtb.wordpress.com/

  116. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    There is nothing built to ruin there. I'd agree with you if there were berms or other things, but the wiss is completely washed out from last year.
    Disagree all you want but there are a lot of new trails that a lot of people worked hard on to build. The surface is still in it's infancy, when tires sink into mud that's bad. In fact, there are posted signs on these new trails asking people not to ride on them when wet. There are parts in the Wiss that are very similar to stream beds, the dirt has a lot of silt mixed in and tires don't do damage there. There are also many parts that are very soil based, like the meadows, the newer trails, etc. that would be better off if people did not ride on them wet.

    Every time that I ride in the Wissahickon I try to reduce my impact as much as possible, whether it be the surface conditions or dealing with hikers, equestrians, whatever. I do the best I can and I hope that everyone else does their best too. Bad things happen, bikes get too close to people, we scare the horses or we leave ruts in soft earth. I wonder how many complaints could be lodged before mountain bikes are no longer welcome in the park, do you know? Disagree all you want but I want mountain bikes to stay in the Wiss forever.

  117. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    I ran yesterday around 3pm on south loop- figuring it was frozen and would be pretty good. I was surprised at how mushy it was. I was also surprised at the amount of bike traffic that had been through (you could tell because of the snow, wear line in the trail and the tire tracks in the muck). There were also a good amount of hiker and dog prints.

    I am sure this would be a "good" evidence to go hating on riding in questinable conditions etc. But there was a study done by John Wilson -"Erosion Impacts of Hikers, Hores, Motorcyles and Off Road Bicycles on Montain trails in Montana" Mountain Research and Development, 1994. Basically, every trail user has an impact on the trail tread. however mountain bikers have a realtively light impact on trails and were shown to have no more impact than a hiker's boots.

    So I was surprised and actually happy that so many riders had been out earlier to brave the cold weather and take advantage of the cold more frozen ground - Sunday was a cold and windy day. I like to see that people were out having fun and were toughing out the weather.

    Its really shame on me and everyone else on foot who waited until later, but like I said - figured it would still be frozen. The point being that its no worse for someone to bike on a questionable day, than it is to hike. Bikers make a bigger and more convenient target. Hiker's far outnumber the bikers and they hike in all conditions.

    FCuddy, you make great points (especially the part about the new trails). Cicatix also has a valid point, its so beat up back there it doesn't make much difference in reality. I think you're a fellow residents of the City, so you'll appreciate that biking will never be banned and even if they did Philly doesn't have the resources to stop riding back there. Also, there are far too many cyclists with an voice now, that it would prob never happen.

    The caviat on the MTB Voice in the Wiss- it is not the PMBA, which put up another stupid announcement about rogue trail building on their website. Nothing like blaming bikers, when many "causual trails" exist made by hikers. Some of the membership tried to point out how nonsensical it is to post a "bad dog" letter on the opening page of their website and they should stop kissing FOW's ass, but got shut down by the board of directors censorship of the website. PMBA is a lame duck organization for the Wiss - no voice, slave to FOW (and its demostrated anti-bike policy), and they are not allowed to hold workdays in the Wiss. How funny/ironic is it that they put up the rogue trail announcement, but rarely put up the correct current conditions on the home page banner?
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  118. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    I ran yesterday around 3pm on south loop- figuring it was frozen and would be pretty good. I was surprised at how mushy it was. I was also surprised at the amount of bike traffic that had been through (you could tell because of the snow, wear line in the trail and the tire tracks in the muck). There were also a good amount of hiker and dog prints.

    I am sure this would be a "good" evidence to go hating on riding in questinable conditions etc. But there was a study done by John Wilson -"Erosion Impacts of Hikers, Hores, Motorcyles and Off Road Bicycles on Montain trails in Montana" Mountain Research and Development, 1994. Basically, every trail user has an impact on the trail tread. however mountain bikers have a realtively light impact on trails and were shown to have no more impact than a hiker's boots.

    So I was surprised and actually happy that so many riders had been out earlier to brave the cold weather and take advantage of the cold more frozen ground - Sunday was a cold and windy day. I like to see that people were out having fun and were toughing out the weather.

    Its really shame on me and everyone else on foot who waited until later, but like I said - figured it would still be frozen. The point being that its no worse for someone to bike on a questionable day, than it is to hike. Bikers make a bigger and more convenient target. Hiker's far outnumber the bikers and they hike in all conditions.

    FCuddy, you make great points (especially the part about the new trails). Cicatix also has a valid point, its so beat up back there it doesn't make much difference in reality. I think you're a fellow residents of the City, so you'll appreciate that biking will never be banned and even if they did Philly doesn't have the resources to stop riding back there. Also, there are far too many cyclists with an voice now, that it would prob never happen.

    The caviat on the MTB Voice in the Wiss- it is not the PMBA, which put up another stupid announcement about rogue trail building on their website. Nothing like blaming bikers, when many "causual trails" exist made by hikers. Some of the membership tried to point out how nonsensical it is to post a "bad dog" letter on the opening page of their website and they should stop kissing FOW's ass, but got shut down by the board of directors censorship of the website. PMBA is a lame duck organization for the Wiss - no voice, slave to FOW (and its demostrated anti-bike policy), and they are not allowed to hold workdays in the Wiss. How funny/ironic is it that they put up the rogue trail announcement, but rarely put up the correct current conditions on the home page banner?
    Wow, I did a quick ride in the early morning and found the Wiss to be perfect. Frozen like a rock and covered in nice snow. Granted that was early - 7am but with the temps staying below freezing, surprised it got worse. And yes, you can see all the ruts that have been made by people riding when the ground was soft.

  119. #119
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    [QUOTE=justriding;8999631PMBA is a lame duck organization for the Wiss - no voice, slave to FOW (and its demostrated anti-bike policy), and they are not allowed to hold workdays in the Wiss. How funny/ironic is it that they put up the rogue trail announcement, but rarely put up the correct current conditions on the home page banner?[/QUOTE]

    If FOW is anti-bike they're recent work doesn't show it. The re-route in that section near the golf course is excellent, as is the flowy section they just finished on the north side that ends at, i think, the kitchens ln. parking lot.

  120. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    If FOW is anti-bike they're recent work doesn't show it. The re-route in that section near the golf course is excellent, as is the flowy section they just finished on the north side that ends at, i think, the kitchens ln. parking lot.
    The re-route near the golf course was the last PMBA section made. I remember when that was being done, I came across a guy working on the trail. I thanked him for this trail and the trail that latter found out was "the coil". He had no idea about the coil and looked puzzled about it.

    The new trail to kitchens lane is nice but boring. Speed is nice but not for a place like the wiss and not next to a parking lot. That trail is meant for walkers, not bikes. That will be the site of the next MTB/people conflict.

    Also, on Sunday morning, ran across two people just as they turned to go onto the coil. Yelled at them to stay off the coil. They told me to fck off. I fear the end of MTBs in the wiss is coming.

  121. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Also, on Sunday morning, ran across two people just as they turned to go onto the coil. Yelled at them to stay off the coil. They told me to fck off. I fear the end of MTBs in the wiss is coming.
    Could you post a map link or a description so guys like me (who have learned the trails just by poking around and trying to line up tires-on-the-ground experience with the semi-crummy maps available) know where the coil is? I'd rather not wander onto it accidentally.

  122. #122
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The new trail to kitchens lane is nice but boring. Speed is nice but not for a place like the wiss and not next to a parking lot. That trail is meant for walkers, not bikes. That will be the site of the next MTB/people conflict.
    You summed that up perfectly. The meadows re-route is the same way, but I'd give them a pass on that area because it is longer and I thiink the ground up there doesn't lend itself to more technical trail. Have you also noticed that there is alot of features being filled in/santized. Its like they are making it handicap accessable back there. I almost wish they would stop with their projects b/c its all going to end up like a dirt sidewalk if they have their way.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelpot View Post
    Could you post a map link or a description so guys like me (who have learned the trails just by poking around and trying to line up tires-on-the-ground experience with the semi-crummy maps available) know where the coil is? I'd rather not wander onto it accidentally.
    Its almost impossible to get on the coil and re-coil unless you know where they are.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165

    Coil?

    I ride in the Wiss almost everyday barring good conditions. I have no idea what the coil is, some kind of a secret? What part of the park is it in, NE, NW, SE, SW?

  124. #124
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    just to try to clear the facts up a little:

    all the recent trail work is being done by FOW. becasue of "alleged" rogue building of trails such as the coil trail PMBA hasn't been able to do work in the park since last summer (i don't remember exactly when).

    all the recent work has been done by FOW (who has a core group of mtb riders that does most of the trail work). thsis work includes the golf course reroute (no PMBA involvement if i remember correctly). most of the reoutes done lately are a sh!tload of fun in my opinion and will sson weather into traditional rocky wissahickon goodness. but most importantly these trails are built using IMBA standards and will not get "completely washed out" everytime it rains once they have had time to bed in.

    we can argue all day about weather these trails are nicer or lamer than the ones they replaced but the fact is all "unsustainable" trail is going to get worked on in the park over the next few years. IMBA Trialsolutions was here and mapped out the whole thing a couple years back.

    this:
    Sustainable Trails Initiative | Friends of Wissahickon

    is already approved and is happening and going to continue.

    so you have two choices as i see it if you want to keep "real" trails going strong at the wissahickon.

    b!tch on the internet (which does nothing) OR go out to an FOW volunteer day get involved and go out and build sweet trail yourself legally.

    btw, i am friends with both FOW and PMBA members and there is a pretty dicey relationship between the two currently. i am not trying to pick sides or put down either organization.

    finally, don't ride the wiss when it is wet and justify it... it is f*cking dumb and your destroying trail others worked hard to build. if you want justification for riding in the mud occasionally how bout this? for every hour of trail work you put in you get one mud ride? i bet after you see how hard it is to go and create new trail you'll have no desire to destroy it by riding it when it is super muddy.

    novel over... please if anyone sees things i have mis-stated let me know. i have three kids and a am pretty removed from the situation currently but i do live walking distance from the trails and am out in the park in some form or another multiple times a week. just typing my novel cause i thought a few things here needed clarification.
    Last edited by max-a-mill; 02-15-2012 at 09:10 AM.

  125. #125
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The new trail to kitchens lane is nice but boring. Speed is nice but not for a place like the wiss and not next to a parking lot. That trail is meant for walkers, not bikes. That will be the site of the next MTB/people conflict.
    Most of the park is choppy. I think it's nice to have a smoother twisty section here and there.
    Last edited by 92gli; 02-15-2012 at 09:11 AM.

  126. #126
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    what i don't nderstand is whay people are taking such a stand about a short little trail (coil).

    it was OK and slightly more fun than the alternative but never a super awesome trail IMHO. now people really are being asses and riding it after the park has tried to officially close it many times.

    just as a warning to those who keep doing the dumb sh!t. there are cameras up around the park (or there were, not saying they are over by the coil but i wouldn't doubt it) if your riding closed trails they may have your picture on file somewhere.

    big brother hates mtber's

  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenn72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    97
    For those interested in the trail work going on in the Wiss, I received this email and thought you might be interested. I'll be there and hope you can attend.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bell's Mill trail work day
    Saturday, February 18
    10 am to 1 pm

    Dear FOW Volunteers:
    Please join us this Saturday to repair the trail from Bell's Mill Road to the covered bridge. A short section of the trail collapsed last summer as a result of flooding. Help us finish the bypass around the collapse. We will also work on improving the appearance of the trail head, fix a few muddy sections, and clean leaves from culverts along the trail.

    RSVP to Dan at [email protected]:

    Directions:

    Meet at Bell's Mill Road trail entrance on the Chestnut Hill side. Parking is available on Bell's Mill Road on both sides of the creek. Follow the yellow signs to the work location if you arrive late.

    For further details and the latest volunteer schedule please visit the FOW Volunteer Page. Work days will be cancelled in the event of a steady rain, snow, or extreme low temperatures.

    Friends of the Wissahickon
    8708 Germantown Avenue
    Philadelphia, PA 19118
    Home | Friends of Wissahickon
    215.247.0417


    This email was sent to [email protected] by [email protected] |
    Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy.

    FOW | 8708 Germantown Ave | Philadelphia | PA | 19118


    view the original
    Kenn Rymdeko
    "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain

  128. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    just as a warning to those who keep doing the dumb sh!t. there are cameras up around the park (or there were, not saying they are over by the coil but i wouldn't doubt it) if your riding closed trails they may have your picture on file somewhere.
    Its pretty unlikely they are going to get a picture, be able to id you in your riding rig, and do anything about. Its Philly after all - unless you have a bloody arm hanging out of your trunk a cop isn't going to bother with you and even then you might get away with it.

    Of more real concern is some jackass booby trapping the trail. The report came back after the first time it was closed that someone spread broken glass across the entrance - or maybe that was just the normal amount of broken glass in Wiss. People are so fired up about it, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone do something like that or worse. Read about some of the stuff hikers used to do and still do in Marin County with the access wars.

    Best just to stay off it for multiple reasons.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    the only solution i see to make everyone happy is to have every possible user group represented at the trailwork days. if your not trying to be part of the solution don't b!tch about the problems.

    as for being arrested since you had your pic taken; no way (not really even sure how taking spy pictures on public park is legal, but i'll leave that to the lawyers)... but you certainly are giving the rest of us a bad name. our mtb community in the wiss (the regulars) really isn't that big. so even though you'll never get in trouble, you might get known as the a-hole who continually rides closed trails.

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    but you certainly are giving the rest of us a bad name. our mtb community in the wiss (the regulars) really isn't that big. so even though you'll never get in trouble, you might get known as the a-hole who continually rides closed trails.
    I'm guessing that if someone is riding a controversial closed trail, making unauthorized trails or is riding the other trails in the park that are restricted to hiker only, they don't care if you, or anyone else, thinks they are an a-hole.

    I don't know what the solution is -people generally are what they are and don't change.

    You're right about the trail work though. I used to do trail work and then when life got too busy-kids/job, showed my support by cash contribution to PMBA. Now that PMBA can't do trail work in the park and has no input in the new trail design - I don't do either.

    I have the right to comment (and so does anyone else) that the new Kitchen's lane re-route is fast, slightly fun, but mostly boring and a site for potential conflict due to the speeds that it encourages. That area has a lot of pedistrian traffic, dog walkers, kids, etc. You have bikes ripping through there (yes, I know there's a 7mph speed limit and you're not supposed to scare the hikers, but some don't), there is going to be more conflict. The Meadows is 1000x better than what was there. But the new trails on a whole don't seem to have the MTB input that they did when PMBA was involved.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  131. #131
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    That was flat out punishing on the HT! Definitely had to pick lines
    That what makes The Wiss soo Great on a Hardtail!!!--If I had a Fully i would not have to pick the lines I do......

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    the new trails on a whole don't seem to have the MTB input that they did when PMBA was involved.
    what trails do you think PMBA was involved with that were better designed than the stuff built now? not trying to start a fight, i am honestly curious.

    as for the kitchens lane reroute... do you remember the old trail(s)??? you must admit they sucked and basically just shot you (and all the water and debris) straight down the fall-line at super high speed if you had enough suspension. i think the new trail has much better sight lines than the old ones. you can now go really fast and still see others coming from a long way off so you have a chance to slow down, plus it is much longer than the old downs. my suggestion for having fun on that trail going down is to really try to limit your braking outside the swicthbacks and see just exactly how fast you can rail the straighish sections, those little rollers become sweet jumps with enough speed.

    btw, a lot (most?) of the main FOW trail crew are avid local mountainbikers. so even if they are not building trails you want; believe me every new trail is being built with bikes (and all other users groups of course) in mind. hell this whole initiative was designed by IMBA...

    again not trying to be negative or prove anyone wrong; just making sure everyone knows that all the new FOW built trails are still heavily influenced by the riders who help to make them. if people have the time and want to "make rad trails" i suggest they get involved on some level. there seems to be a widely held idea out there that FOW is anti-bike and that simply is not true.

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    conditions at the wiss were good today. I think I am the only person who rides there without a 29er now...
    Follow my mountain biking blog!

    http://transientmtb.wordpress.com/

  134. #134
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Demo 1, the downhill on the Indian Statue and the golf course re-route; also smaller sections that were re-routed, but I don't know the name designation. all much better than Kitchen's lane re-route.

    Hey, just voicing my opinion on the new trails. I think Kitchen's lane re-route, although better than the unsustainable trail (the original was always kind of fun with the berms and all), is kind of boring, super sanatized - its like a dirt sidewalk- and is going to lead to user conflict. If you read the boards, I'm not the only one with that view.

    I did give them props for the Meadows. that was a good result.

    btw - I'm not advocating a trials type trail or anything super-tech, just saying that the recent trail put in since PMBA is not that great and seems to lack bike input.

    I know IMBA did the STI and I also know that FOW fired IMBA trail crew and went with some equestrian guy to finish the project. If you are going to put out information, don't spin it to support your point.

    You want to spin the FOW is pro-MTB's feel free, but you saw their reaction to PMBA and their continued shunning of a group that could provide manpower, funds, enthusasm and input. If you choose to see FOW as benovolent toward MTBers, don't try and con everyone else. There is a deep rooted anti-bike sentiment there. There are still horse only/hiker only trails? Only Mtbers and Horses have to get permits for upper trails? I know you're going to say the FPC is responsible for that, but you know FOW holds sway on those issues. How about FOW destroying build ups and log rides that parallel the trail- not very MTB friendly.

    The FOW crew MTBers split off from PMBA and I believe are former board members. The rift had alot to do with PMBA being a slave to FOW and they went to their masters or mistresses.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatrix View Post
    conditions at the wiss were good today. I think I am the only person who rides there without a 29er now...
    Cool. I am hoping to hit it tomorrow afternoon.

  136. #136
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    and is going to lead to user conflict.
    I guess it will if you insist. I haven't even come across any walkers on it yet. And its in no way worse than any other spot in the park you can pick. You keep saying its so "sanitized" - so shouldn't you be able to slow down easily if you come up on people ?

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    If you read the boards, I'm not the only one with that view.
    Which board ?

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    I did give them props for the Meadows. that was a good result.
    How is that a good result and the kitchens re-route a bad "sanitization" ? Its a dog walking track. The kitchens re-route is like whistler compared to the meadow.

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    btw - I'm not advocating a trials type trail or anything super-tech, just saying that the recent trail put in since PMBA is not that great and seems to lack bike input.
    The day I saw the crew working there they had 5 or 6 bikes lying on the side of the trail and about 8 workers. Didn't see any horses tied to trees. Might have been a unicycle there though.

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    There are still horse only/hiker only trails?
    Where ? The ones right along the creek edge that aren't rideable anyway ? Who cares ?

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Only Mtbers and Horses have to get permits for upper trails?
    When did the permit thing start ? 15, 20 years ago ? As it stands, no one pays anyway. So whats the difference ? Tell the walkers they need permits. Whoop de do ! And duck watchers. Whoopee !!! They'll stand to pull in.... $0 more dollars! I've never been stopped and asked about a permit by a ranger. I've only seen a ranger twice in 15 years. If they want money they need to charge day fees like the parks in de and md do - but they'll have to actually conjure up a human to check cars for the hangtags and empty the boxes - too much effort.

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    conditions are nice.
    Last edited by justriding; 02-23-2012 at 09:52 AM.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I guess it will if you insist. I haven't even come across any walkers on it yet. And its in no way worse than any other spot in the park you can pick. You keep saying its so "sanitized" - so shouldn't you be able to slow down easily if you come up on people ?


    Which board ?


    How is that a good result and the kitchens re-route a bad "sanitization" ? Its a dog walking track. The kitchens re-route is like whistler compared to the meadow.



    The day I saw the crew working there they had 5 or 6 bikes lying on the side of the trail and about 8 workers. Didn't see any horses tied to trees. Might have been a unicycle there though.



    Where ? The ones right along the creek edge that aren't rideable anyway ? Who cares ?



    When did the permit thing start ? 15, 20 years ago ? As it stands, no one pays anyway. So whats the difference ? Tell the walkers they need permits. Whoop de do ! And duck watchers. Whoopee !!! They'll stand to pull in.... $0 more dollars! I've never been stopped and asked about a permit by a ranger. I've only seen a ranger twice in 15 years. If they want money they need to charge day fees like the parks in de and md do - but they'll have to actually conjure up a human to check cars for the hangtags and empty the boxes - too much effort.


    1. I don't "insist" The trail is not designed with choke points or features that control speed. Yes - you, me, other riders who yeild to peds, can slow down, there is plenty of sight line, but without checks, you can't control speed of those who don't. Putting in those type of features is one of IMBA's big things. If you haven't seen anybody on that trail, you don't go there enough.

    2. You can look up through this thread for one. Or go look through PMBA's forum.

    3. Its a good result because it added more trail and made the best of existing topography. It is not technical at all, but that is the "meadows". It flows nice and and is not fast enough to cause conflict with peds. You are missing the point comparing kitchens to the meadows for support of Kitchen's trail design. Also, maybe you ride with locals or regulars, but probably not. If you did, you would hear the word "santization" often. I realize we need sustainable trails and accomdation of all user groups, but sometimes it goes a little to far. There is always Belmont for the polar oposite of sanitized trails.

    4. And your point is? I did not say equestrians were doing the work. You quoted me on bike input into trail design. You say you saw biker's working on trail. They do what the designer tells them. The current designer is an equestrian trail designer. Just because bikers are working on a trail, does not mean they did the design or have input.

    5. Not the ones right along the creek edge. There are many more sections and small connectors in the park that are very rideable and fun trails that have been designated horse/hike only. There are a core group of riders who regularly poach these trails, so they are rideable if you have the skills. maybe you don't care - others do.

    6. This makes the least sense of all your comments. b/c they don't have enforcement is irrelevant to the issue. The FOW and FPC only make a big deal out of bikes having permits.

    You are wrong to say "no one pays" most every regular rider in the Wiss (or at least the locals) gets a permit and even though they are free to Philly residents, most donate something to the park. You saw a ranger 1x more than I have in 13years, but what does that have to do with anything? You don't pay although as a mountain biker you are supposed to pay for a permit for the upper trails. Why not, you seem to like to ride them and have an opinion?

    You live in WC, go ride FC, its a better park, with nicer people and no conflicts.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  139. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    92gli - there is a PMBA forum discussion on the sanitzation issue going on at www,phillymtb.org , but you have to be registered on the site to see it. you can register for free. check it out. there are some good opinions by guys who did the work.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  140. #140
    wot no bike?
    Reputation: pahearn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    You want to spin the FOW is pro-MTB's feel free, but you saw their reaction to PMBA and their continued shunning of a group that could provide manpower, funds, enthusasm and input. If you choose to see FOW as benovolent toward MTBers, don't try and con everyone else. There is a deep rooted anti-bike sentiment there. There are still horse only/hiker only trails? Only Mtbers and Horses have to get permits for upper trails? I know you're going to say the FPC is responsible for that, but you know FOW holds sway on those issues. How about FOW destroying build ups and log rides that parallel the trail- not very MTB friendly.
    Let's be realistic, PMBA got kicked out of the park because members and BOARD MEMBERS were caught building rogue trails. Unsubtainable rogue trails at that. I'm friends with all of the original, core PMBA members and I love them -- but let's face it, it's PMBA's fault they're in the situation they're in now.
    pete

  141. #141
    wot no bike?
    Reputation: pahearn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    When did the permit thing start ? 15, 20 years ago ? As it stands, no one pays anyway. So whats the difference ? Tell the walkers they need permits. Whoop de do ! And duck watchers. Whoopee !!! They'll stand to pull in.... $0 more dollars! I've never been stopped and asked about a permit by a ranger. I've only seen a ranger twice in 15 years. If they want money they need to charge day fees like the parks in de and md do - but they'll have to actually conjure up a human to check cars for the hangtags and empty the boxes - too much effort.
    All responsible park users pay for permits, the money helps support our city parks. It shouldn't be about whether or not you get "caught" without one, if you really have an interest in the health of our park system you'd chip in rather than ride off of everyone else's efforts.
    pete

  142. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by pahearn View Post
    Let's be realistic, PMBA got kicked out of the park because members and BOARD MEMBERS were caught building rogue trails. Unsubtainable rogue trails at that. I'm friends with all of the original, core PMBA members and I love them -- but let's face it, it's PMBA's fault they're in the situation they're in now.
    You are 100% correct.

    The point is that FOW just won't let it go. PMBA cleaned up its act, kissed the rings, and has learned the lesson. Overal it can be demonstrated that the good they did out weighed the bad. Its got a motivated membership and wants to get back to work in the Wiss. Its been at least a year now and FOW still has their panties in a bunch about it and blocks them from having their own work days.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  143. #143
    wot no bike?
    Reputation: pahearn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,056
    I may be wrong and someone please correct me but from what I understand, for the most part PMBA isn't showing up in-force to help out at FOW trail days, as they have done during PMBA work days. I hear that a few PMBA members show up, but that's it. If this is the case I'm not surprised FOW isn't taking PMBA seriously enough to let them do independent work in the park again. Also a common attitude I've heard from many PMBA members is that they refuse to help work on the park if it's not directly bike related. IMO that doesn't help PMBA's situation either as it seems very selfish.

    I would think that if PMBA as a whole showed up at every FOW trail day just as they had done on PMBA days of the past, eventually relationships and faith could be repaired enough for FOW to delegate certain projects back to PMBA in order to tackle park issues in parallel, given all the extra man power. From my understanding minimal if any effort has been made to help FOW en masse though.
    pete

  144. #144
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    I know they don't show up like they used to. The rest of it I don't know and it sounds like you know more about it.

    You are right again - if they refuse to work on non-bike projects, it is not helpful and selfish. Are you a member? You have a good grasp of the situation, you could give them some suggestions.

    Its not a one way street though. IMO a big reason for the PMBA members staying away from FOW is the way FOW handled the situation in the first place and continue, it was like they couldn't wait to drop the hammer on PMBA and it was pretty over the top. It should have been more like alright, clean out your Board, get rid of the guilty, your suspended until you clean up your organization. **** IMBA still affiliates with PMBA, so it can't be that bad. And if you know the founding board members, you know the back story that there was a whole lot of weird stuff going on b/t both groups and people with personal agendas, rather than what was best for PMBA in representing riders. PMBA lost some members over it and I think it was more than a few. The current Pres doesn't even live in Philly.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  145. #145
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    conditions are nice.
    Yes conditions were fantastic. Bone dry and fast. Pretty crazy for this time of year.

    The wiss is a great place that is easy to take for granted. We in the philly MTB community are lucky to have this place.

  146. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ChuckUni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Demo 1, the downhill on the Indian Statue and the golf course re-route; also smaller sections that were re-routed, but I don't know the name designation. all much better than Kitchen's lane re-route.

    Hey, just voicing my opinion on the new trails. I think Kitchen's lane re-route, although better than the unsustainable trail (the original was always kind of fun with the berms and all), is kind of boring, super sanatized - its like a dirt sidewalk- and is going to lead to user conflict. If you read the boards, I'm not the only one with that view.

    I did give them props for the Meadows. that was a good result.

    btw - I'm not advocating a trials type trail or anything super-tech, just saying that the recent trail put in since PMBA is not that great and seems to lack bike input.

    I know IMBA did the STI and I also know that FOW fired IMBA trail crew and went with some equestrian guy to finish the project. If you are going to put out information, don't spin it to support your point.

    You want to spin the FOW is pro-MTB's feel free, but you saw their reaction to PMBA and their continued shunning of a group that could provide manpower, funds, enthusasm and input. If you choose to see FOW as benovolent toward MTBers, don't try and con everyone else. There is a deep rooted anti-bike sentiment there. There are still horse only/hiker only trails? Only Mtbers and Horses have to get permits for upper trails? I know you're going to say the FPC is responsible for that, but you know FOW holds sway on those issues. How about FOW destroying build ups and log rides that parallel the trail- not very MTB friendly.

    The FOW crew MTBers split off from PMBA and I believe are former board members. The rift had alot to do with PMBA being a slave to FOW and they went to their masters or mistresses.
    Just wanted to clear up a few things here, because there are many very wrong statements.

    - IMBA trail solutions did the STI proposal. They were not fired. STI has not and will not follow the original proposal in all cases, as demands are constantly changing. The equestrian guy is not finishing the STI project. STI is huge, he was brought in for a different view point on a few select projects, especially after repeat stalemates from the city. It is probable that he will not be brought in for any remaining projects. For example, another contractor has been hired for a few upcoming projects who is a IMBA subcontractor (has worked on projects in the park before) and an avid MTBer. Many projects and details will rely on FOW's trail building team, which is comprised mainly of MTBers.

    - FOW, and departed board members, are largely responsible for the bike access in the meadows. It made sense, and took a *lot* of push to get past the city. FPC *is* responsible for the trail designations and are very hard to budge - even in cases were connectivity is broken from infrastructure work - as has been the case recently. That said, there is a huge political push from various user groups for keeping hiker only trails, so it's not a simple black and white subject. The user permits are the same story.

    - FOW did not destroy mtb log rides. That was the city. However, that was *after* FOW went to lengths with them to help prove their legitimacy. The one log ride by the pavilion, built by FOW volunteers, using FOW equipment, as a result of the city giving it an verbal ok. Hence it is still there.

    - Kitchens lane had more politics than normal, for a variety of reasons - hence it has a more generic feel. However, it will be used as a model in some ways and it's short comings will be used to better future trails. All of this comes from misguided concerns from the city or other user groups. I can assure you it would all suck much worse if not for constant involvement of FOW and mtb people involved.

    - Golf course was designed by IMBA at request of FOW. It was largely built by departed PMBA members, as the core PMBA folks had decided to back away at this point. This was another project mired in politics. It was also the first true new trail project. In my opinion, back out at that moment was exactly the wrong thing to do. That project would also been much worse, if not for constant MTB support.

    - PMBA is in the position it's in because of breaking of trust by being involved in illegal actions. To this day they have not rebuilt this trust, rather in some cases the opposite, even recently. There are other issues, but to say that FOW is responsible is a joke. It was the result of actions of PMBA, PMBA has done little to fix it, and even in some cases continues the problem. None of this is new and there has been plenty of time to fix it. If anything is pretty over the top, it's the above - and a huge negative for MTB relations within the park and the city - especially coming from the public face of MTBing.

    Anyway, to be completely clear, I am a departed PMBA board member and currently on the FOW crew. I encourage MTBers to show up to trail events - not only will it actually help represent our user group - but it will also dispel a lot of the misinformation going around.

  147. #147
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Conditions are PERFECT. Lots of loose rocks from recent storms but that's it.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  148. #148
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by pahearn View Post
    All responsible park users pay for permits, the money helps support our city parks. It shouldn't be about whether or not you get "caught" without one, if you really have an interest in the health of our park system you'd chip in rather than ride off of everyone else's efforts.
    By the way, due to being raised with a healthy dose of catholic guilt I do buy them every year. Even though when I do, I feel like a dolt because I don't believe too many others do it.

    I find the day use model to be much more rewarding. I put the money in a little envelope, in a box AT the park, I somehow feel that its going to the right people/place. Obviously thats a problem with wiss because the parking lots probably only capture half the people in the park. Vs. a remote park where people can't park on side roads or walk in as easily.

  149. #149
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    165
    Speaking of trail permits, are the 2012 permits available? It seems the site has not been updated for a while:

    Fairmount Park

    Anyone have any better information?

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFCuddy View Post
    Speaking of trail permits, are the 2012 permits available? It seems the site has not been updated for a while:

    Fairmount Park

    Anyone have any better information?
    They will probably reset it sometime in the spring.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  151. #151
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    146
    New trail passes for the year usually start in March. Don't know why they start then, but this is Philadelphia, city of the nonsense.

  152. #152
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    299
    I made a short post in my blog about the wiss.

    Also went riding yesterday and the trails are in awesome shape. The only thing keeping me off the trails today is this horrible migraine!
    Follow my mountain biking blog!

    http://transientmtb.wordpress.com/

  153. #153
    Less yappin, more Brappin
    Reputation: geoffss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    788
    Hero dirt today, what month is it again? Lots of dogs off-leash.

  154. #154
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9
    This Sat AM during the mild rain we got I took my friend - who is entirely new to mtn biking - out to Wiss. We did a loop off Lincoln Dr. on the north-east side of the river. While riding, we were passed by a runner who nodded politely. About 10 min later we were accosted by him. He seemed jittery and off kilter, and he yelled something about "today is a good day for mountain boots or running shoes." I said thanks, and kept on going and forgot all about it. 20 min later, near Valley Green, he came on us again. This time he was equally jittery, clearly angry, and he was ranting about trail damage.

    His position seemed to be that we were doing quite a lot of trail damage. While I respect both his position and I very much value a sustainable trail, I doubt we could possibly account for any significant damage. I'm not a geologist, however, and I would bow to anyone else with greater expertise. But I've mountain biked in the wet before and I will again, and the most I think I've caused is a rut - not the end of the world. I also think that mountain biking actually maintains trails and prevents them from being overgrown.

    He was angry and repeated his points, which had to do with trail damage. I pointed out that horses have been shown to do the most damage, to which he replied that he's not talking to horse riders, but to two bikers. Indeed, he was talking to two adult males, one of whom is an ex-marine who was was also a respected MMA fighter several years ago during one of his deployments. He also said that one biker is the same as all bikers (like any ethnic, religious, or gender group I suppose). I thanked him for his concern and ended out conversation.

    To show his level of disrespect towards us makes me think he was more than a little deranged. So watch out: white, in his 30s, otherwise nondescript. If you see him, my advice is to keep moving.

  155. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by neglect View Post
    This Sat AM during the mild rain we got I took my friend - who is entirely new to mtn biking - out to Wiss. We did a loop off Lincoln Dr. on the north-east side of the river. While riding, we were passed by a runner who nodded politely. About 10 min later we were accosted by him. He seemed jittery and off kilter, and he yelled something about "today is a good day for mountain boots or running shoes." I said thanks, and kept on going and forgot all about it. 20 min later, near Valley Green, he came on us again. This time he was equally jittery, clearly angry, and he was ranting about trail damage.

    His position seemed to be that we were doing quite a lot of trail damage. While I respect both his position and I very much value a sustainable trail, I doubt we could possibly account for any significant damage. I'm not a geologist, however, and I would bow to anyone else with greater expertise. But I've mountain biked in the wet before and I will again, and the most I think I've caused is a rut - not the end of the world. I also think that mountain biking actually maintains trails and prevents them from being overgrown.

    He was angry and repeated his points, which had to do with trail damage. I pointed out that horses have been shown to do the most damage, to which he replied that he's not talking to horse riders, but to two bikers. Indeed, he was talking to two adult males, one of whom is an ex-marine who was was also a respected MMA fighter several years ago during one of his deployments. He also said that one biker is the same as all bikers (like any ethnic, religious, or gender group I suppose). I thanked him for his concern and ended out conversation.

    To show his level of disrespect towards us makes me think he was more than a little deranged. So watch out: white, in his 30s, otherwise nondescript. If you see him, my advice is to keep moving.
    Maybe he was just passionate about the park and a little nervous about saying something? A lot of us old timers that have been ridding the Wiss for years have seen it change a lot over the years. Personally, the bikes are nothing compared to the drunken people having barbecues near the river and dumping trash everywhere. Not to mention the horses that destroy bridges. With that said, we (mountain bikers) are perceived as the bad guys, even when we are not. However, we do damage, especially when it is wet and it rained a lot Friday night. Could he have been right? Were you leaving big ruts?

  156. #156
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    I've thought about damage to trails by bikers, hikers/runners and horses and I've drawn these conclusions as to why bicycles are perceived to damage the trails more than hikers/runners/horses:

    Bikes travel further than being on foot time being equal. So in the same amount of time, a cyclist has covered more ground than a runner or hiker. So when the trails are wet and you leave ruts, they will travel a lot further than the foot prints.

    A bicycle wheel has constant contact with the ground as opposed to a horse's hoof. I'm not sure what the striding distance of your average horse is but it seems like horses do leave untouched parts of a trail while they are walking while a bike could leave a continuous rut. Of course, a horse weighs a lot more than a cyclist, so the damage per hoofstep is more severe.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  157. #157
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by neglect View Post
    To show his level of disrespect towards us makes me think he was more than a little deranged. So watch out: white, in his 30s, otherwise nondescript. If you see him, my advice is to keep moving.
    That guy I haven't seen yet (not by description - that's about 50% of park users - but by actions). There was another guy a while ago, often running with his two crappy dogs off leash, who would yell and rant at any biker on the trail if there was so much as morning dew on the ground. He was a pretty well known kook by most of the riders. Haven't seen him in a long time. My riding partner used to crack up because I would just yell jibberish back at him or just say things to make him crazier.

    I love people like this guy...without much effort you can get them so mad that it will ruin not only his day, but his week and maybe his month when he thinks about you. Also, I think you are describing the Chestnut hill side of Wiss, by far I run into more jackasses on that side of the park than any other section.

    Sounds like you and your friend had good intro to Wiss, now all you need to do is run into some bull dyke dog walkers, serial killer looking guy, those "dainty" equestrian girls who think they own the park, unleashed dog owner who yells at you when his dog bites you, local kids having a kegger under Henry Ave bridge, stink eye hikers, armored up free ride guy, and you will really have the feel for riding the best drainage ditch in the world.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  158. #158
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Maybe he was just passionate about the park and a little nervous about saying something? A lot of us old timers that have been ridding the Wiss for years have seen it change a lot over the years. Personally, the bikes are nothing compared to the drunken people having barbecues near the river and dumping trash everywhere. Not to mention the horses that destroy bridges. With that said, we (mountain bikers) are perceived as the bad guys, even when we are not. However, we do damage, especially when it is wet and it rained a lot Friday night. Could he have been right? Were you leaving big ruts?
    We were NOT leaving big ruts: 1/4 inch deep at most and in depressions. The ground was not saturated with water. You know that the Wiss drains well. Furthermore, although we were the only people on that side at that time, we later saw some other riders doing the south trails.

    The first interaction, I thought the following: 1. He might have a point, but it is a minor one. 2. I'm going to be polite. But then I examined by friend's line and noted the ground wasn't mushy and we weren't tearing it up - it was my friend's first time on a mountain bike ever. And the second time he spoke to us he was more aggressive/whiny/emotional. I really think he was more than a bit disturbed.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshhan View Post
    I've thought about damage to trails by bikers, hikers/runners and horses and I've drawn these conclusions as to why bicycles are perceived to damage the trails more than hikers/runners/horses:

    Bikes travel further than being on foot time being equal. So in the same amount of time, a cyclist has covered more ground than a runner or hiker. So when the trails are wet and you leave ruts, they will travel a lot further than the foot prints.

    A bicycle wheel has constant contact with the ground as opposed to a horse's hoof. I'm not sure what the striding distance of your average horse is but it seems like horses do leave untouched parts of a trail while they are walking while a bike could leave a continuous rut. Of course, a horse weighs a lot more than a cyclist, so the damage per hoofstep is more severe.
    All true. And I'm committed to keeping the Wiss wonderful, although as Vespasianus said, the trails change, they erode and they also build up.

  159. #159
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    That guy I haven't seen yet (not by description - that's about 50% of park users - but by actions). There was another guy a while ago, often running with his two crappy dogs off leash, who would yell and rant at any biker on the trail if there was so much as morning dew on the ground. He was a pretty well known kook by most of the riders. Haven't seen him in a long time. My riding partner used to crack up because I would just yell jibberish back at him or just say things to make him crazier.

    I love people like this guy...without much effort you can get them so mad that it will ruin not only his day, but his week and maybe his month when he thinks about you. Also, I think you are describing the Chestnut hill side of Wiss, by far I run into more jackasses on that side of the park than any other section.

    Sounds like you and your friend had good intro to Wiss, now all you need to do is run into some bull dyke dog walkers, serial killer looking guy, those "dainty" equestrian girls who think they own the park, unleashed dog owner who yells at you when his dog bites you, local kids having a kegger under Henry Ave bridge, stink eye hikers, armored up free ride guy, and you will really have the feel for riding the best drainage ditch in the world.
    We did have a great time! He didn't have dogs, but otherwise he was cut of the exact same cloth. The Wiss might have a new kook. And I think we ruined his run at very least. We were on the Chestnut Hill side.

    Anyway, it turned into a great ride - the rain stopped, and later on in the afternoon we saw some real wackos in Manayunk - while having food and beer.

  160. #160
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,726
    Quote Originally Posted by neglect View Post
    We were NOT leaving big ruts: 1/4 inch deep at most and in depressions. The ground was not saturated with water. You know that the Wiss drains well. Furthermore, although we were the only people on that side at that time, we later saw some other riders doing the south trails.

    The first interaction, I thought the following: 1. He might have a point, but it is a minor one. 2. I'm going to be polite. But then I examined by friend's line and noted the ground wasn't mushy and we weren't tearing it up - it was my friend's first time on a mountain bike ever. And the second time he spoke to us he was more aggressive/whiny/emotional. I really think he was more than a bit disturbed.



    All true. And I'm committed to keeping the Wiss wonderful, although as Vespasianus said, the trails change, they erode and they also build up.
    Yeah the Wiss actually drains really well. I generally find that in the spring and summer, the trails are pretty dry after a rain fall. Fall and winter is another issue all together. A sunny 45 degree day in February is much worse than a summer day in the morning after a rain storm.

    Guy does sound like a nut case. Still, be lucky you took your friend to the Wiss and not the belmont. Nothing is scarier than being chased by a naked crackhead who was pooping in the woods....

  161. #161
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joshhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Sounds like you and your friend had good intro to Wiss, now all you need to do is run into some bull dyke dog walkers, serial killer looking guy, those "dainty" equestrian girls who think they own the park, unleashed dog owner who yells at you when his dog bites you, local kids having a kegger under Henry Ave bridge, stink eye hikers, armored up free ride guy, and you will really have the feel for riding the best drainage ditch in the world.
    I love it.

    Haven't seen the armored up free ride guy at the Wiss but I might have seen him at the Nox.

    And some of those equestion girls are cute and willing to chat you up about your bike if you stop for them.
    Bikes, lots'o bikes

  162. #162
    Suburban Redneck
    Reputation: boxman12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Sounds like you and your friend had good intro to Wiss, now all you need to do is run into some bull dyke dog walkers, serial killer looking guy, those "dainty" equestrian girls who think they own the park, unleashed dog owner who yells at you when his dog bites you, local kids having a kegger under Henry Ave bridge, stink eye hikers, armored up free ride guy, and you will really have the feel for riding the best drainage ditch in the world.
    Check! Check! Check! (+2 for the pants and boots) Check! Check! Check (freakin hippies!)! No AUFRG.
    I'm not big-boned, I'm a Clyde.

  163. #163
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    121
    My first time riding the wiss there was a naked dude standing about 2 feet off the trail. Great trails though.

  164. #164
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    Across from Lincoln Drive (on the Singletrack side) we ran into 'poop' someone left right on the trail (after they **** on the trail.) Our bikes stunk like Hell afterwards....

    Now Me, I am from Philly (not outside of Philly)---so as with anything in life the trick is to just be prepared (and know where you are and what can happen)---

    I was always amazed that more things do not happen on the trails (robbery especially) because who is going to have a camera anywhere in the woods (to see anything?)

    Now I live in Central Pa. now (and right up the street in Reading Pa. last year)--some biker was ready when some 'teenage gangster's' tryied to beat him up and robbed him.

    They were both shot and one of them died!! I learned at an early age (because of growing up in Philly) that anytime there is any violence (anyone can die very quickly)----

    Now a lot of people here said "that's just kids being kids"----but it's best learning at a young age (what I did about violence)----Because I don't care if you are 8yrs old or 80 yrs old--If Anyone tries to put their hands one me--I will (and do try) to kill them...

    PERIOD!!!!-----BUT I JUST ROLL like I ain't the one for no 'dumb ****' coming my way. And that itself is probably why I have never been approached by the 'crazy hikers' on any trail!! So there is a great reason to be from a CRAZY BIG CITY--cause you know to take the posture already (of not being a victim)---

    --And I will be back at The Wiss next week (and next month)---
    Last edited by 247; 07-23-2012 at 07:58 PM.

  165. #165
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Hey 247, does your wallet say "Bad [email protected]^cker" on it like in Pulp Fiction?
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  166. #166
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    Hey 247, does your wallet say "Bad [email protected]^cker" on it like in Pulp Fiction?
    Now that's funny!!

    But I just let them know (on the trails) that THEY KNOW with ME--I am the one you will have the most Problems With (if they decided to act stupid)-----

    --At the Wiss a few times (i have run up to a couple of folks who looked like they were up to no good)----and just let them know (I am the one you DO WANT TO LET PASS)----Yeah about 2-3 times there I ran into a group of folks who looked like they were waiting to rob someone...

    ----Being from a BIG CITY does help you react better to those situations!!!---

    --WHAT I DO EVERYTIME is I dont just try passing these people, I stop, get off my bike (grab what I carry around for crazy folks and dogs--that i keep in my side pocket always)---and they already know I am NOT the one!!

    --I have had many people grab hold of their dogs when I do this (i even let them know) I'm ready to 'rock and roll'--CAUSE I AINT GONNA BIT by someone's dog-----and they see that (then think twice)----BECAUSE in 3 years (and 99.99% of the time I ride by myself)--------I have run up to vagrants living in the woods also--But riding solo--I knew some folks were targeting me--THAT is why i wear flats!!!---cause I am always ready to 'rock and roll'---no one is gonna take my bike I worked too hard for 3 years ago building up (ever since)----

    --Because these people who look for folks to rob (are all just Cowards)--and when they see you AINT THE ONE---they leave me be... Let them know you will not be an easy target...

  167. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    Quote Originally Posted by 247 View Post
    Now that's funny!!

    But I just let them know (on the trails) that THEY KNOW with ME--I am the one you will have the most Problems With (if they decided to act stupid)-----

    --At the Wiss a few times (i have run up to a couple of folks who looked like they were up to no good)----and just let them know (I am the one you DO WANT TO LET PASS)----Yeah about 2-3 times there I ran into a group of folks who looked like they were waiting to rob someone...

    ----Being from a BIG CITY does help you react better to those situations!!!---

    --WHAT I DO EVERYTIME is I dont just try passing these people, I stop, get off my bike (grab what I carry around for crazy folks and dogs--that i keep in my side pocket always)---and they already know I am NOT the one!!

    --I have had many people grab hold of their dogs when I do this (i even let them know) I'm ready to 'rock and roll'--CAUSE I AINT GONNA BIT by someone's dog-----and they see that (then think twice)----BECAUSE in 3 years (and 99.99% of the time I ride by myself)--------I have run up to vagrants living in the woods also--But riding solo--I knew some folks were targeting me--THAT is why i wear flats!!!---cause I am always ready to 'rock and roll'---no one is gonna take my bike I worked too hard for 3 years ago building up (ever since)----

    --Because these people who look for folks to rob (are all just Cowards)--and when they see you AINT THE ONE---they leave me be... Let them know you will not be an easy target...
    you don't have to be afraid for your life riding the wiss.

    i commute through there almost daily and ride there two nights a week and most weekends. i have never once felt intimidated by another trail user or their dog(s).

    let them know your there, smile, wave, put a hand out for little doggie to sniff maybe and keep goin.

    here is how i think about it... people are nice to you when your nice to them. works for me and like i say i think i am out there enough to get a good sampling of what the wiss is really like.

    i say this just so people know there are no problems riding your bike in the park. just remember to be friendly to all the crazy folks you run into on the trail

  168. #168
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    just remember to be friendly to all the crazy folks you run into on the trail
    Oh I am super-friendly to everyone (and I am a Big Clown)--if you have seen some of my posts...

    Again, I have never had a problem (in 3 years on ANY trail)--and ride by myself all the time..

    I am just surprised that more stuff does not happen out on the trails (for lack of camera's and witnesses)----i just advocate always being prepared for whatever comes your way...

  169. #169
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    208
    Anybody know about the body that was found near the upper, Bells Mills parking lot, last Sunday? All sorts of fire trucks, police and ambulances there with the EMS checking out what looked like a body in the woods across the drainage ditch near the parking lot (down hill from the Monster climb). I checked local news that night and the next day but could find no mention.

  170. #170
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    never heard of it (and i live 1/4 mile from there).

    busy weekend in the neighborhood... monday some assclownz broke into my neighbors house and he shot and killed one of them. then my wife ran into another one of them trying to get away on forbidden after abandoning the minivan he stole (luckily the cops got him).

    Warminster police officer kills man breaking into his home

    i doubt they could sneak a dead body out of the park without it making news... but who knows it's philly.

    so yeah trails - safe

    neighborhoods around the park - i am beginning to rethink them

  171. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation: justriding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    343
    Wow, those two burgulars are dumb. In that neighborhood there are a lot of cops and firemen as well as gun owners. I live in Rox - there is a motorcycle cop across the street and corrections officer down the block and one of my neighbors watches everything on the block; my wife saw him go "talk" to a guy who was wandering down the street and looked like he didn't belong, while he was talking he was holding a baseball bat and telling him where the bus stop to get out of the neighborhood was.

    Trails are surprisingly safe. I agree with maxamill. I've been riding back there for over 10 years without any major problems (other than some of the crazies discussed earlier in this thread) and use the park at least 3 days a week. A lot of it has to do with awareness - just be aware of your surroundings, who or what is around and where you are going - and you'll be fine with no problems. Plus being male and fit, kind of makes you less of a convenient target. Most criminals are like any other predator - they want something easy, without a lot of fight in it. If you are aware, you are one step ahead of the game. I still really want to tell the girls/women who run the upper trails with an ipod on that its not the best idea, but they can't hear me anyway.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  172. #172
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    I still really want to tell the girls/women who run the upper trails with an ipod on that its not the best idea, but they can't hear me anyway.
    no doubt. you see lots of ladies out at night alone on forbidden and kelly too. hope they have some mace with them. i know my wife wouldn't run without it; she'd never wear headphones for saftey reasons either. really strange no one ever mentions how dangerous running or riding is when your blasting tunes and you can't hear what the hell is going on around you...

    my neighborhood is FULL of cops. to make it even dumber if you know the neighborhood you know houses like the one vick was rumored to have purchased for a second are right down the street.

    Has Michael Vick bought a house in Andorra?

    instead these morons break into a 1000 sq foot house with a cop, his wife, and four kids inside. just calling them dumb doesn't even do it justice... if this is the level of smarts of the average thug we have nothing to worry about.

  173. #173
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    208
    Not worried about safety on the trails, but do worry about my car when I ride and other users in the park. 99% of the time when I warn someone I am passing, they don't even respond because they have ear buds in.
    Got major problems with this on a couple of levels:
    1.) They can't hear me coming and I scare the **** out of them
    2.) They can't hear whats going on around them, including other trail users, trees fallling, muggers or any other undesireables

    Ear buds while running or riding doing anything else in the Wiss is just stupid, and makes you look like you have no clue about whats going on around you.

  174. #174
    247
    247 is offline
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,333
    Ear buds while running or riding doing anything else in the Wiss is just stupid, and makes you look like you have no clue about whats going on around you
    There was a term for those people when I grew up in Philly------'Prey'

    --I have Never owned any walkman (etc.) in my life with headphones (only a PS3 Headset)-----

    I just found in life it is better to be aware of my surroundings at all times (ALSO growing up in Philly I was the only person I knew who was not robbed growing up)--i used to have friends get on the Subway (Broad and Olney) with headphones on (alone...)

    --ALSO didn't 'Jeffery Dahmer' hang out in Fairmount Park somewhere??

    or was it Cobbs Creek??---YEAH, I GOT to be aware of my surroundings at all times!!
    Last edited by 247; 07-29-2012 at 09:49 PM.

  175. #175
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Still, be lucky you took your friend to the Wiss and not the belmont. Nothing is scarier than being chased by a naked crackhead who was pooping in the woods....
    True dat. I used to ride Belmont a lot in the mid 90's when I was living in Center City since it was the closest trails for a quick before or after work ride. I've seen some crazy s*** back there and always figured my days were numbered but luckily nothing ever happened. Here's some of the things I've seen:

    - People having sex in cars pulled way back into the woods before they blocked off the entrances well.

    - I had two guys jump out from a SUV driving on one of the stone roads and ask me if I was riding alone. I said NO! and quickly rode off. Later that day I saw the same two guys at a bike shop and they said "You're that weird guy that rode away when we were trying to ask you questions about mountain biking in the park." I explained my side of the story and we all laughed.

    - A pack of wild dogs I spooked as I rounded a corner. They fortunately ran away from me.

    - A dying deer that had been hit by a car dragging itself on the ground with its front legs. I called Fairmount Park- they wouldn't do anything about it.

    - Frequent dumping of appliances, again before the stone paths were blocked better.

    - I was almost hit by a park ranger in a car who was speeding down one of the stone roads. He stopped and I asked him if anything was going on, worried that something bad had actually happened. He said "No, why?" and then slowly drove away. Weird.

    That place is much better now, but now that I live closer to Wiss I never ride there anymore.

Similar Threads

  1. Wiss!!
    By Got-Bike!! in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-27-2011, 06:33 AM
  2. The WISS!!!
    By 247 in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 07-26-2010, 02:33 PM
  3. Anyone know how the Wiss is today?
    By glorth2 in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-15-2010, 05:48 PM
  4. shortcut thru wiss
    By Dougr in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-23-2007, 11:38 AM
  5. Map Of The Wiss???
    By vgt in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-14-2006, 01:34 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.