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  1. #1
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    7Springs

    The trail map for the 7Springs "bike park" shows a trail called "Frankenstein" on the left side of the mountain (left if you're facing uphill). This looks like a new trail? Does anyone have any info on this? Is it new, or can I just not read a map?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    The trail map for the 7Springs "bike park" shows a trail called "Frankenstein" on the left side of the mountain (left if you're facing uphill). This looks like a new trail? Does anyone have any info on this? Is it new, or can I just not read a map?
    It looks like it's a new one for this year. I remember that it had gotten started last season, IIRC the start of the trail branches off to the right at the start of 007.

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    yes you can read the map! spangler and the guys started it last year. it is a tight,rocky,slow, off camber trail. more like downhill technical xc. should be ready to go opening day.

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    ugh, i can't wait. the 23rd can't get here fast enough.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Sounds cool. They needed at least one technical trail mixed in with all the flow-y/jump-y terrain. Snowshoe has the same opening weekend, so I guess I'll be hitting 7Springs on 5/30...

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    Do any of you drive from the Erie area (down 79)? Carpooling would be cool.

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    my husband and i are from from pittsburgh area. sorry,

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    It's ok. Thank you. If anyone else on the board is coming from the north and wants to carpool, I'm up for it.

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    Looks like Seven Springs is letting us ride for free on Memorial Day.

    http://www.7springs.com/page/calenda...event/708.html

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    Wonder how the turnout will be versus last year? I bet there's going to be a lot more people this year..
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    I skipped last year's free day. From the photos and stories I heard, sounded like a nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    I skipped last year's free day. From the photos and stories I heard, sounded like a nightmare.
    It was actually a free weekend last year. I wasn't there on Saturday due to work, but was there Sunday and it wasn't any where close to a 'nightmare'. At most, there was a 5 minute wait for the lift. Did get to demo a Kona, they were pretty busy with the free Demo bikes, but it wasn't impossible to get one and get about 3 runs in....
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    How much does it cost normally?

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    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    I skipped last year's free day. From the photos and stories I heard, sounded like a nightmare.
    That weekend was a lot of fun. The lines moved very well despite their length. The main gripe had to do with the casual riders who happened to be there that weekend. I guess they were visiting the resort and had their bikes with them and decided a "jaunt" down the mountain might be fun since the lifts were free.

    We went on another (paid) weekend and the lines were only a few people deep at most and I guess nobody on a hybrid wanted to pay $30 to ride down a hill that weekend.

    It's a fun place and if I lived closer I'd definitely go this year. But we've got Snowshoe in our summer plans this time around

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    Who's all going to be there saturday? 4 of us should be coming out from Lancaster area!

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    Where did you see we can ride foe free i didnt see it?

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    The calendar has been changed. I looked at it when jjmiller posted the link and it said downhill mountain biking was free on Monday, May 25th. That has since been removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Traveler
    The calendar has been changed. I looked at it when jjmiller posted the link and it said downhill mountain biking was free on Monday, May 25th. That has since been removed.
    That's pretty poor form. Looks like the 7 Springs management/promotion team needs to get their act together. Had this not gotten posted on MTBR (thanks TT) I likely would have had no idea they reneged on this offer and shown up to get a few runs in only to find out it will be full price. The riders are already treated like second class citizens at this resort, this type of bait and switch crap does not help improve that perception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky R
    my husband and i are from from pittsburgh area. sorry,
    What part of pittsburgh? We could carpool sometime?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC
    That's pretty poor form. Looks like the 7 Springs management/promotion team needs to get their act together. Had this not gotten posted on MTBR (thanks TT) I likely would have had no idea they reneged on this offer and shown up to get a few runs in only to find out it will be full price. The riders are already treated like second class citizens at this resort, this type of bait and switch crap does not help improve that perception.
    Really really poor. I was already spreading the message around to my non-DH-riding friends. Maybe they are counting on people showing up and then just deciding to pay full price rather than turn around?? I hate to be negative but its about what I expect from the management there.

    After experiencing the horrible treatment of riders (paying full price mind you) by the resort to end last season I am hoping it is better this year. If they don't get their act together I'll be driving the additional distance to snowshoe. The steps they need to take are well documented here and well known by the local riding community so I won't rehash it here. This year is the year they really have to step up IMO.

  22. #22
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    I'll be there. I ride a white Transition Blindside.

  23. #23
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    Paging 7 Spring vets

    Any 7 springs vets out there

    Wife and I are hitting up 7 springs this weekend for the first time and I have two questions.
    1) what bike? I looked at the vids and it seems like they are all riding trail type rigs. To maximize the fun factor should I bring my full DH race rig or my 5" trail/Super D bike?
    2) Places for apres bike? Any cool places to grab a beer etc. after the ride? I am staying in the main lodge/hotel

    Thanks for the help!

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    1) It depends on what you want. You'll see most there on full DH rigs. I personally feel its overkill but I guess over the course of a few hours the smoother ride over the rocky sections help make you less tired. I've had all kinds of bikes there from my 27lbs hardtail to a 40+ FR rig. I will not be using anything over my 6in AM bike anymore. There just isn't the terrain to justify it. I say bring the Super D bike and enjoy the table tops and man made stunts. It might also allow you to ride the xc. If you're really into XC/AM type riding there are some really good places a short drive from the resort.

    2) You've hit a really weak spot here. As of last year the resort did not open any typical mountain bars. They exsist, but just aren't open for the summer season. There are a few higher class places where you can get a great meal (Helen's) but you'll pay for it and look wayyy out of place if you stop in after a ride in your shorts and jersey.

    Immediately outside the resort there is a cool B&B type sandwich shop. But thats about it. If you want any type of restaurant expect to drive into Somerset about 20 minutes away. Don't expect any great nightlife even there. For any decent nightlife expect to drive to Latrobe or even further.

    I could be missing some restaurants at the resort as I only go there for the day, but I am sure there is no place to grab a quick lunch or sit down with a group for a few post ride beers. Rumor has it they will open a bar this year, but I'm skeptical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDH
    Any 7 springs vets out there

    Wife and I are hitting up 7 springs this weekend for the first time and I have two questions.
    1) what bike? I looked at the vids and it seems like they are all riding trail type rigs. To maximize the fun factor should I bring my full DH race rig or my 5" trail/Super D bike?
    Either bike will work. I've got an Enduro and Big Hit, but I've only ever brought the big bike to ride because I like the stability of the slacker angles and longer wheelbase, plus the extra travel (while not really necessary) makes a full day of riding more comfortable and less tiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDH
    2) Places for apres bike? Any cool places to grab a beer etc. after the ride? I am staying in the main lodge/hotel

    Thanks for the help!
    Depends on what they have open at the mountain. The place at the top near the lake is a cool spot to grab a post ride beer. Or the spot down near the lift (Foggy Goggle, maybe?), you can watch people crash on the tabletops.

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    I called up there today and spoke to a lady in reservations. She said it was still free, but didn't sound very credible. I asked her a few times (Free even if you aren't staying at the resort? Free even though it's not on the website?) and she said as far as she knows, yes. Like I said though, I didn't feel very confident in her response. If anybody else wants to call (1-866-437-1300) maybe you could post if you hear anything different.

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    Well, isn't that a pita. I was on the fence about going up anyway, as I didn't know how busy it was going to be. I figured its Memorial Day, lots of folks will be doing stuff with their families.

    I have no problems with my backup plan:

    Morning ride at Bavington, then to my aunt n uncles about 10 minutes away.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    you should call and ask to talk to some-one in the dh bike park, the ladies at the desk are always confused.

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    Anyone heading up today?
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    I'll relay my experience with Seven Springs today. A little background, I called a few days a go and they took my number and said they'd call me back with info about the free ride. A guy from the bike shop said, "...they'd made an error, but are honoring it..." and took my name, presumably to honor the website error. The guy I rode up with got the same phone call, and got the same treatment from the manager.

    When I got up there the girl at the counter had a printout of the website saying the offer was only for hotel guests, and I must've misread it. I explained the phone call, but she kept giving me the same rote answer over and over. Finally I asked for a manager and went a few rounds with him. I forgot the name of the guy who returned my call, but showed him the call in my phone, and he didn't care. He insisted that I read the website wrong.

    Long story short, we went a few rounds and I figured it wasn't worth it. And it wasn't the $30, it was the principle. I was skeptical about paying $$ to ride anyway, and this kind of sealed the deal for me, at least at Seven Springs. Maybe this sounds like whining, but it's the principal.

    At one point the guy said, "We can't just let all these people ride for free." I said, "So it was on the site then?" He just shook his head.

    BTW, the place looked empty. Chairlift 10-15% occupied. Pizza place and all the other eateries were closed. I wish it'd been a better experience.

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    We had gone up on Saturday and I wasn't all that impressed. It was opening day and they def. were not any where near ready.

    Now I am used to diablo so my expectations may have been high however the service was horrible and I had no clue where to go for tickets. They def. need some signs and more direction as to where to pay and such.

    Now the riding was ok however the jumps all needed work along with most of the berms. Half the jumps were more like rollers and not what they should have been. Also the need some more actual DH orientated trails.

    Lets just say I won't be going back anytime in the near future I will drive the same distance and go to diablo.

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    to all those 5 guys who helped my husband and i on sunday THANK YOU! thank you for the time you took out of your riding and either helped on the hill or the two guys who actually told we needed 911. all those who said they were going to tell some-one and did not and to the not so nice *ss who went xtra fast near us instead of slowing down like the guys asked you to(and we were off the trail!) I HOPE YOU NEVER NEED HELP! for those five that actually care: the knee cap was broke in 4 with tears in tendons he is in hospital and had surgery! THANKS AGAIN TO ALL WHO HELPED!

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    That's lame. It never ceases to amaze me how poor customer service is at so many places.

    You did not read the website wrong. Before they modified the site it said "free downhill" on Monday, and it quoted a specific time frame (11:00am to 4:00pm, I think). It didn't say anything about having to be a hotel guest.

    It's a really dumb move on there part because I bet they could've kept you as a customer just by apologizing for the mistake, and even if they weren't permitted to honor the original website deal (sometimes these decisions come down from above) they could throw you a deal to keep you at the mountain for the day...like a two for the price of one, or something similar. At the very least they should not be calling you a liar, when it's clear to every customer that saw the webpage earlier that this deal was being offered.

    Regarding the $30 lift fee, I agree that it's a little steep. Diablo is $38 and probably has ten times the trail network that 7 Springs does. I'm sure their operating cost is high and the rider volume low which is why the fee is what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjmiller
    I'll relay my experience with Seven Springs today. A little background, I called a few days a go and they took my number and said they'd call me back with info about the free ride. A guy from the bike shop said, "...they'd made an error, but are honoring it..." and took my name, presumably to honor the website error. The guy I rode up with got the same phone call, and got the same treatment from the manager.

    When I got up there the girl at the counter had a printout of the website saying the offer was only for hotel guests, and I must've misread it. I explained the phone call, but she kept giving me the same rote answer over and over. Finally I asked for a manager and went a few rounds with him. I forgot the name of the guy who returned my call, but showed him the call in my phone, and he didn't care. He insisted that I read the website wrong.

    Long story short, we went a few rounds and I figured it wasn't worth it. And it wasn't the $30, it was the principle. I was skeptical about paying $$ to ride anyway, and this kind of sealed the deal for me, at least at Seven Springs. Maybe this sounds like whining, but it's the principal.

    At one point the guy said, "We can't just let all these people ride for free." I said, "So it was on the site then?" He just shook his head.

    BTW, the place looked empty. Chairlift 10-15% occupied. Pizza place and all the other eateries were closed. I wish it'd been a better experience.

  34. #34
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    It's sad, but not unexpected.

    It seems like last year the resort was reasonably successful with the DH park, as most of the riders were pretty tolerant with an understanding that "this is the first year". If they don't fix things before the end of this season, I suspect the bike park will slowly fade away.

    Stinky R: Sorry to hear about your husband. I hope him a swift recovery.

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    It's a shame they haven't gotten their act together. The first season should have been a learning experience for them and they should have taken the constructive criticism and used it to make the park better. They have a good location to lure riders from Diablo and Snowshoe but seem to be tip-toeing into the mountain biking arena when they should be stomping around with huge features and more of an online presence within the community.

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    If Springs don't do something fast, they are going to lose the few riders they have. I bought a pass because I live so close, but after 2 days of riding am already bored. No Frankenstine either...why does it take so much time to make a DH trail? Find some burly rocky areas and put a line through it.

    StinkyR - sorry to hear about the incident and hope for a fast and full recovery.

  37. #37
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    i have to pass by seven springs to get to snowshoe, but i am getting a season pass to snowshoe instead. i think that speaks volumes about the wasted potential if they don't get their act together.

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    I live in Pittsburgh and drive to Snowshoe every summer with friends. Like I said before, 7 springs will never compare to Snowshoe, WV!

    7 springs had an opportunity and didn’t take advantage of it! Shame on them…

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    I can only hope that someone of some importance at 7 springs monitors this website. Last year the response to the resort was overwhelming positive with the caveat that it is the first big year and will expand quickly. This year the response is pretty negative with the only positive that seems to be mentioned is it is close for some people.

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    They don't Care

    Nobody there cares. Downhill biking is about priority #85 on their list. They are currently on priority #3- sporting Clays. #1 was revamping the food- which still sucks, and #2 was the pool.

    Sorry to be negative- I am a pass holder and it is frustrating.

    Their XC trails are pretty good though...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian A
    Nobody there cares. Downhill biking is about priority #85 on their list. They are currently on priority #3- sporting Clays. #1 was revamping the food- which still sucks, and #2 was the pool.

    Sorry to be negative- I am a pass holder and it is frustrating.

    Their XC trails are pretty good though...
    No problem, you aren't any more negative than anyone else here.

    I had high hopes for this season but it seems like more of the same BS. The more I think through it the more I get upset with the resort. Now I'm thinking I'll just drive the short distance extra to go to Wisp. When the resort shows they care, then they can have my money!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian A

    Their XC trails are pretty good though...
    Where can I get a map of these? Just moved to nearby Westmont (after 7 years in Slatyfork, WV....yeah, I know... ). Is the trail that runs from 7S to Hidden Valley still open? Besides Laurel Ridge, what other areas should I be checking out around here? Any info is greatly appreciated.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    Where can I get a map of these? Just moved to nearby Westmont (after 7 years in Slatyfork, WV....yeah, I know... ). Is the trail that runs from 7S to Hidden Valley still open? Besides Laurel Ridge, what other areas should I be checking out around here? Any info is greatly appreciated.
    Yes, the trails from Hidden Valley to 7 Springs is still open. Not sure where a map is available online, but you should be able to pick up a map up there. Also see http://trails.mtbr.com/cat/united-st...3_4573crx.aspx

    In the area, check out the Forbes State Forest trail system. Tons and Tons of trails.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Like Evo, I'm in the 'Burgh, a little over an hour away from 7Springs and 3.5 hours from Snowshoe. Yet, I bought a Snowshoe season pass. As others have mentioned, it's not just the lack of vertical and trail options at 7Springs, but the lack of amenities. At Snowshoe, there are any number of places you can go after a ride to grab beers and decent bar food. At 7Springs, you can either put on a suit and go to Helen's or go to the lodge restaurant and hang out with the redneck families and senior citizens. People make fun of WV for being backward, but man, 7Springs really seems to go out of their way to cater to the hick contingent (sporting clays, country music concerts, etc.).

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    For all you driving to snowshoe from PA, check out Timberline WV. They opened last season with a 1000 ft of vert and alot of steep technical trails. They already have new trails this spring with more to come over the summer. They are also a locals resort with a small hill attitude that welcomes every rider with personal service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub
    For all you driving to snowshoe from PA, check out Timberline WV. They opened last season with a 1000 ft of vert and alot of steep technical trails. They already have new trails this spring with more to come over the summer. They are also a locals resort with a small hill attitude that welcomes every rider with personal service.

    I checked out the website and it caught my interest. The website doesn't show much though. How many of the trails listed are lift assisted DH? What are the operating hours? How much for a lift ticket?

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    Timberline trail maps/photos:
    http://www.damaps.net/wv/area/timberline

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    Their website is in a flux.... There is a local mapping trails, DAMAPS.net, and a pretty good crew of volunteer trail builders. The best thing to do is call and ask for JR. He is the man running the biking side of things, and is pretty friendly and passionate about riding.

    T-line is more of a grass roots area, They just do not have the capital to invest in the facilities, they don't have big bikes for rent, any wood features, or machine built trail, (Other than the ATV race lines which are fun as hell) or other features they have at 7Springs and Snowshoe. There are plenty of natural features to challenge you though. I think there are 6 main lines with several variations on the runout to the lift. I also think within the next couple weeks there will be one or two more main lines opened up if they already haven't

    I haven't had a chance to get there this year but will give a ride report after the weekend. PM me if you are interested in going, I can point you to good camping, and places for food.

    There are also a couple Bed and breakfast places that are dog friendly too. you can also get food and cheap lodging on the mountain. We rented a condo for a weekend for less than 150 per night for 5 people.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian A
    Nobody there cares. Downhill biking is about priority #85 on their list. They are currently on priority #3- sporting Clays. #1 was revamping the food- which still sucks, and #2 was the pool.

    Sorry to be negative- I am a pass holder and it is frustrating.

    Their XC trails are pretty good though...
    Reading through this thread, I have to laugh...how long did I spend banging my head against the wall there?

    Looking forward to checking out Wisp and T-Line this Summer as well as a trip to the Shoe. Hell, I don't even ski at 7S anymore and not really missing it.

    It's hard to imagine that you could screw that place up any more than it was pre-Nutting, but they have found a way.

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    Too Rass you mentioned Wisp - I rode there a few weeks back for the first time and was impressed. Good dh trails and only a little over an hour from 7 Spings. Only bad thing is the lift is slow as hell. Good place to check out when you don't want to drive to snow shoe.

    I am curious what trail Springs will have the Gravity East race on. One would assume EC1.....but the way their operating, Springs may have it on "rock and roll".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel-City
    I am curious what trail Springs will have the Gravity East race on. One would assume EC1.....but the way their operating, Springs may have it on "rock and roll".
    Yes, if they screw up the race, they might as well just throw in the towel. The bad word will continue to spread and they'll have less support/ridership than they do now.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel-City
    Too Rass you mentioned Wisp - I rode there a few weeks back for the first time and was impressed. Good dh trails and only a little over an hour from 7 Spings. Only bad thing is the lift is slow as hell. Good place to check out when you don't want to drive to snow shoe.

    I am curious what trail Springs will have the Gravity East race on. One would assume EC1.....but the way their operating, Springs may have it on "rock and roll".
    I've been hearing good things about Wisp. I'm gonna try it out for sure.

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    they said they are going to use 007 and ec1 for the ge race. race times under 2 minutes, how awesome is that?

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    2 of my buddies and I drove up to 7springs today from Cumberland. Considering we don't downhill a lot, anything is kinda worth it to us at first. But to be honest... the trails are in bad shape considering their grand opening was last week. The rocknroll trail had heavy growth all along the trail (high grass and weeds) and the berms were really washed out. It seems as though they only take care of the 007 trail. There were a decent amount of people their today. One of my friends was talking to an employee and he said 7springs was strict about no overtime and the trail maintenance people had to work on the trails during the hours of operation???? WTF? I'll go back because It's just an hour away but they gotta get their **** together. I live an hour from the WISP and I'm hearing good things about their trails... BUT their lift will drive you insane. The chairs are tiny 2 people size and the lift takes 18 minutes to get to the top. No ****! I'll be making my first trip to Snowshoe next month and really looking forward to it. I always hear great things about that place.

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    So is it worth the drive? It's about 3.5 hours from where I am, but after hearing all these horror stories I'm not so sure about going. I also wanted to ask those who have been there, how are the jumps? I'm not much into DH, but I love XC and Dirt Jumping even more. Knowing that, will I be much disappointed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdburch
    they said they are going to use 007 and ec1 for the ge race. race times under 2 minutes, how awesome is that?
    Glad Plattekill is the same weekend

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    Quote Originally Posted by clay_man
    So is it worth the drive? It's about 3.5 hours from where I am, but after hearing all these horror stories I'm not so sure about going. I also wanted to ask those who have been there, how are the jumps? I'm not much into DH, but I love XC and Dirt Jumping even more. Knowing that, will I be much disappointed?
    the jump line is fun. but its short and there is only one, with an optional "freeride" section to vary the top. the site shows 13 trails but there are really 3 with a few options. some of the "trails" on the map are under 100 feet long...

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    Talking to some old buds that still work at the 'shoe a couple days back and mentioned that I'm about a half hour from 7S now that I moved. They laughed and said "Seven where? Didn't they used to have a lame 24 hour race there? What? DH? (More laughter...)"

    They did admit that they liked the stuff that Wisp does have going on. Still, if you're into DH and from this area, Snowshoe is the place to go.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by clay_man
    So is it worth the drive? It's about 3.5 hours from where I am, but after hearing all these horror stories I'm not so sure about going. I also wanted to ask those who have been there, how are the jumps? I'm not much into DH, but I love XC and Dirt Jumping even more. Knowing that, will I be much disappointed?
    Springs does have a lot of good xc trails. Not sure if they are worth a 3.5 hour drive though.

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    Yea, last year wasn't bad & the trails were fairly well groomed. The lack of trails they got the benefit of the doubt on due to being the first year. It looks like they just neglected it, opened it up again same way and expected the same reception.

    Unless they make some decent headway this year, opening new trails, refining what's there then you can probably bet that next year will be the last year they do it.

    Of course, since they people apparently aren't allowed to work on the trails after-hours, maybe nobody going for a month or so will be a good thing and let them get some trail work in. But I don't have my hopes up.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Didn't the resort get new management back in 2007? I haven't been there in years but I've heard other friends tell me the place overall hasn't been the same.

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    OK the skinny from the inside (as I see it). As straight as I can put it, and without spin… if I get in trouble so be it, folks deserve the lowdown and I hope you understand!

    #1 although the park was a great leap of faith for the upper management to take, (without sounding like I am bashing anyone, yet trying to set the record straight) they appointed someone who was not as good a manager as he was a “good guy”. Unfortunately this is a decision that has and will hamper the bike park for at least this year. A pile of money went into designing runs, however, other than the trail designers (Alpine Bike Parks), there were only a few builders with any knowledge of trails hired to help build. The afore mentioned manager promised a crew of workers to help ABP, yet fell short. (you can't hire a couple of high school kids who aren't into biking and send them to build a berm or bench a section... they don't even know what it means!) As he realized his errors (and there were a few), and in an effort to save face, he "explained his concerns" about the cost of operating the park, and lack of return on the investment. In my opinion telling your boss that the investment that you are solely responsible for is a bad move, is in and of itself a bad move. With his lack of motivation to make this venture work, he left and was replaced by a pretty competent manager and management plan. Unfortunately the seed had been planted and the upper management in the current economic climate is very hesitant in putting out more money on the program until they see that it can and will work. (this is solely my opinion and educated inside eye)

    #2 The bike park is under the same management as the other activities mentioned in the prior post, and yes there are other ventures on the mountain that do filter in more capital with less overhead and less investment. I can not blame management for targeting (no pun intended) the other ventures that make money for the mountain. That again is my opinion. But this in no way condones the way that some of you feel that you have been treated! The official position of the Upper management is to make 7-springs the #1 in the Mid-Atlantic region, this can not and will not happen by treating any visitors to the resort like second class citizens! I (even though I am a lowly part time seasonal helper) thoroughly apologize to anyone that has visited the resort and has felt wronged in any way! I do know that the management (that I have worked with) takes those accusations VERY seriously, and will do what they can to rectify those situations.

    #3 (and this ties in with point #1) the budget for this year has been cut drastically from last year, and although the season has already started and it seems like more should have been done prior to opening weekend, they are doing what they can to build. Also a significant amount of time prior to the season was spent rebuilding some features that were destroyed in order for winter activities. The Park crew is trying to evaluate what can be done and changed to eliminate the need for that type of rebuild every year. I for one would love to build new trail rather than have to re-build kickers and burms every year!

    #4 The development of a DH program at 7-springs is something that can only help Wisp, and Snowshoe. Working part time in a local shop I see people buying more AM, and DH oriented equipment, because the opportunities are becoming more accessible. This is a good thing. The base of DH riders is growing, this will help all resorts grow their programs. 7-springs I know intended to continue to pursue the building of more trails even though that has slowed, it hasn't stopped, nor is it out of their minds. They are at this point evaluating the program, and seeing what happens with the economy etc. (this I can not blame them for either)

    I would like to ask for continued support of the program at 7-springs, it is not Whistler nor does it yet offer what Snowshoe does, but there is a contingent at the resort that is trying! Some of the problems have been rectified, others will hopefully work themselves out! Continue to support local resorts, your patronage will keep the programs running! (I am not saying only 7-springs here either! )

    I ask that if you have a bad experience with someone etc, let the management or me know, I will see what I can do to pass on the info to the right ears!

    Stinky R, I hope your hubby is ok! (I was the one holding the upper end of the back board when loading him on the mule) Let me know if there is anything I can do!

    D

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    Wow...there is so much that I would love to say about this last post, but I'll leave it at I hope that the park is super successful because I love it and it's unique in the western PA area. Sometimes though, things you love go away.

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    It's a shame things have not been taken care of. A group of us were considering making the 3.5 hour trip in two weeks for the race, but now I don't feel confident it will be worth the drive. I'd rather drive 2.5 hours to Diablo and know I'm going to get in some good riding. Hopefully things will improve, but I don't think I'll make that trip until I hear the trails have improved.

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    Anyone here snowboard or ski there in the winter? I've always had a pass at Snowshoe, but since moving to the Johnstown area I was considering a season pass at 7S next season. If management is running things in the same manner in the winter, I might be looking at Blue Knob, Hidden Valley or just making the longer drive back to Snowshoe.

    Any input is greatly appreciated.

    Side note: I'm not really interested in winter park features, more concerned with snowmaking, availability of terrain and lifts, lift lines, and slopeside amenities (ie, bars).

    Thanks.
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    Nice Post

    Brunger, you are dead on the money.

    7 springs is trying to be 7 springs. not snow shoe or wisp much less a destination freeride resort.

    I agree that our little bike park is a nice addition to the neighborhood. I woulld love to see it grow at any pace

    The limited trail crew does a lot with the limited resources. The park is not so much the problem as the resort itself is just devoid of ammenities anywhere close to the lift. Hell the hotdog stand at the alpine slide was out of dogs and pretzels on memorial day!?!

    My biggest frustration is that 7 springs has such a great grass roots biking community and the resort does not seem too terribly interested in growing it. They seem more interested in bringing in nondesript out of towners for 1 weekend at a time. between my ski pass, bike pass, bar tabs, food tabs, odd equipment purchase, etc, i drop considerable money there. I guarantee, I drop more there than a one time annual visitor. why not treat me like i matter just a little bit?

    My point is that their current plans do not have to alienate the existing customer base.

    the true mark of genius is the ability to hold onto two opposing positions and execute both. the mgt at 7 springs seems only interested in out of town visitors. I am not a penniless dirtball after all, I just happen to like to ride expensive bikes down (and up) hills.

    I look forward to a fun summer riding Springs, HV, Laurel Quebec, Wisp, Big Bear, etc.

    Here's hoping that they get it together enough to keep the park alive...

  67. #67
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    davis, despite blowing it on the biking front, 7Springs pretty much has their **** together in the winter. I actually like it better than Snowshoe (SS's Western Territory excepted), as Snowshoe's trails seem to have an intersection every 10 yards. 7Springs has good snowmaking and 2 high speed lifts; lift lines aren't too bad except around holidays. Amenities are also decent in terms of food offerings and the Foggy Goggle bar. Too bad they can't seem to work a little bit of this magic in the summertime.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian A
    Brunger, you are dead on the money.
    ...
    I agree 7 springs needs to be 7 springs. But as far as downhill biking goes it needs to either do something(anything really) or get out of the picture. I've compared it to wisp, snowshoe, diablo etc. not because I want it to copy those places but because those places are drawing my business over 7 springs, despite them being further away. To be successful 7 springs needs to put its own spin on a successful bike park

    I desperately hope and pray that 7 springs can become a decent riding destination. I truly and honestly do. But, as has been said before, it will not last very long if it grows at a snails pace. The mountain biking community is very small and everyone seems to know almost everyone else. Word will quickly spread that its not worth paying big resort prices to go there. You can probably see that happening already.

    I'm not sure I buy the excuse that they just don't "have time" to get them built right. The snow has been gone here for several months and the ground has been dry enough to build for at least 1 month. I understand that is hard work, but a half dozen guys with the correct equipment should be able to build the minimal amount of trails they have in the time they've had been opening.

    I think everyone in this area of the US is really giving them the benefit of the doubt and being very tolerant of any growing pains they may have. But they've got to show some token of goodwill towards the riders as well. Early last year they did and it was enough(read lots of posts last year with riders stoked about the resort, me included). Towards the end of last season I, and many other riders were treated very badly by the resort, yet we still eagerly looked forward to the promised changes this year. Now again, 7springs has "spit in our face" and again we are told to wait it out, positive things are coming.

    Who's fault is it the resort is devoid of any amenities near the lift? I know at the very same resort in the winter its no problem to get anything you could possibly want to eat or drink just a few 100 feet from the lift. Again it points to the same root cause.

    The question is, at what point are we supposed to stop going and paying our money at a place that "will be much improved next time you arrive" The day that we all lose hope and stop going is the day the bike park shuts down soon after.

    Its obvious they don't care about the bike park at all. Have you ever been to a corporate event there? I have and it is incredibly well done, everything is perfect. They can do a great job at things when they care, they just don't!

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    Davis, I have to give credit where credit is due; Springs does a very good job on the snowboarding / ski scene. I know you mentioned you don't care about the parks, but it should be noted the leaps and bounds that have been made in this area (within the last three seasons). I have bought a midweek pass for probably the last 6 years; worth every penny of $189....although that price just ended Sunday. As for bars, the Foggy Goggle is a good place to grab a beer after riding. The Matterhorn is the only other bar worth mentioning that comes to mind. A little off topic, but the Halloween party at Springs is a damn good time. Just start early because the bars close at 12:30 there.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunger
    OK the skinny from the inside (as I see it). As straight as I can put it, and without spin… if I get in trouble so be it, folks deserve the lowdown and I hope you understand!

    #1 although the park was a great leap of faith for the upper management to take, (without sounding like I am bashing anyone, yet trying to set the record straight) they appointed someone who was not as good a manager as he was a “good guy”. Unfortunately this is a decision that has and will hamper the bike park for at least this year. A pile of money went into designing runs, however, other than the trail designers (Alpine Bike Parks), there were only a few builders with any knowledge of trails hired to help build. The afore mentioned manager promised a crew of workers to help ABP, yet fell short. (you can't hire a couple of high school kids who aren't into biking and send them to build a berm or bench a section... they don't even know what it means!) As he realized his errors (and there were a few), and in an effort to save face, he "explained his concerns" about the cost of operating the park, and lack of return on the investment. In my opinion telling your boss that the investment that you are solely responsible for is a bad move, is in and of itself a bad move. With his lack of motivation to make this venture work, he left and was replaced by a pretty competent manager and management plan. Unfortunately the seed had been planted and the upper management in the current economic climate is very hesitant in putting out more money on the program until they see that it can and will work. (this is solely my opinion and educated inside eye)

    #2 The bike park is under the same management as the other activities mentioned in the prior post, and yes there are other ventures on the mountain that do filter in more capital with less overhead and less investment. I can not blame management for targeting (no pun intended) the other ventures that make money for the mountain. That again is my opinion. But this in no way condones the way that some of you feel that you have been treated! The official position of the Upper management is to make 7-springs the #1 in the Mid-Atlantic region, this can not and will not happen by treating any visitors to the resort like second class citizens! I (even though I am a lowly part time seasonal helper) thoroughly apologize to anyone that has visited the resort and has felt wronged in any way! I do know that the management (that I have worked with) takes those accusations VERY seriously, and will do what they can to rectify those situations.

    #3 (and this ties in with point #1) the budget for this year has been cut drastically from last year, and although the season has already started and it seems like more should have been done prior to opening weekend, they are doing what they can to build. Also a significant amount of time prior to the season was spent rebuilding some features that were destroyed in order for winter activities. The Park crew is trying to evaluate what can be done and changed to eliminate the need for that type of rebuild every year. I for one would love to build new trail rather than have to re-build kickers and burms every year!

    #4 The development of a DH program at 7-springs is something that can only help Wisp, and Snowshoe. Working part time in a local shop I see people buying more AM, and DH oriented equipment, because the opportunities are becoming more accessible. This is a good thing. The base of DH riders is growing, this will help all resorts grow their programs. 7-springs I know intended to continue to pursue the building of more trails even though that has slowed, it hasn't stopped, nor is it out of their minds. They are at this point evaluating the program, and seeing what happens with the economy etc. (this I can not blame them for either)

    I would like to ask for continued support of the program at 7-springs, it is not Whistler nor does it yet offer what Snowshoe does, but there is a contingent at the resort that is trying! Some of the problems have been rectified, others will hopefully work themselves out! Continue to support local resorts, your patronage will keep the programs running! (I am not saying only 7-springs here either! )

    I ask that if you have a bad experience with someone etc, let the management or me know, I will see what I can do to pass on the info to the right ears!

    Stinky R, I hope your hubby is ok! (I was the one holding the upper end of the back board when loading him on the mule) Let me know if there is anything I can do!

    D
    I am glad to see someone who works at Springs sees this thread and the reaction the riders are having this season. I realize you can't snap your fingers and change everything, but please take this information and pass it own to your superiors at Springs. It can't hurt.

    Because we live in a sue happy society I'm sure there are insurance stipulations etc, but ever consider having dh trail build day? My riding friends and I told Jaime this last year when she was running the activities....give us the green light to help, pro bono. We could at least get Frankenstine up and running.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunger
    Unfortunately the seed had been planted and the upper management in the current economic climate is very hesitant in putting out more money on the program until they see that it can and will work. (this is solely my opinion and educated inside eye)


    D

    One thing that caught my eye, and this isn't an attack you on, more of a point I'd like the management at 7springs to take note of.

    I 100% believe you that this is the case. But the point is this is the 3rd year we've heard this same BS. Each year is supposedly the "test year" to see if this DH investment is worth it. The first year with just 007 was a success IIRC, the second year (last year) was a huge success from what i heard. If they keep waiting for "more justification" then eventually they'll find they don't have any!!

    Like I've said before, the riding community has shown all the needed commitment to the resort. Now it's their move.

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    Sadly, I'm not sure how much us "dirtbag" mountain bikers fit in with mgmt's new approach to bring in "higher-end clientele" (fewer with more money = better than more with less money). Maybe we can sell our $3-7K bikes and enjoy a few $500 days at the new Trillium spa.

    As I said above, I would love to see the park make it as I love going there and appreciate having this type of park near home, but I just don't see the current mgmt putting the time or money into the park to continue to draw interest and realize growth. 7 Springs has every opportunity to prove us all wrong and I hope they do!

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    The frustrations are not only being felt by you! I will not speak for anyone else, but I am frustrated as well!

    I am super beat, but will respond as much as I can now.

    let me clarify things, (I am punchy and probably should step away from the computer, but it will be straight shooting) If the right people had been in the loop to begin with, the full plan that Alpine Bike Parks put together for the resort would have blown everyone away! As was stated, hopefully with the right people involved NOW, it may (and I stress MAY) turn around. bolded because you need to read that again, there is a lot more typing that could be done, but if you cant read into it... PM me.

    The vision or "identity" of the park is an "organic" thing. It was meant to grow, and morph as more terrain was added. The design was not to mirror any other park, but to utilize what 7-springs had naturally available, capitalize, and build upon that. It isn't trying to be Snowshoe or Wisp, but an alternative riding destination!

    away from biking for a second (ADD or something) I think that the new owners had a plan when they purchased the resort, and one of the first things that they did was revamp the hotel rooms to the tune of... well I don't know the exact figures, but it was a pile of money and they did it right. I heard rumors of revamping several other portions of the resort that will make all of us drinking folk happy. But again, the current economic climate may not allow for it?

    back to bike related stuff, Dascro, you are right, (and the others that mentioned about building terrain), when I left last fall, I had thought that I would hear from 7-springs in early spring about the plan to bring a few of us builders back to get kickin on the big build. Then I heard the whole scoop of change of management and some of the issues they are dealing with from the former management. I also know that the budget cuts meant that a hard look would be made at the plan to bring the peeps from Alpine back! In translation, not much new stuff can get built.

    even with limited budget, I know that one of the most important things that 7-springs focussed on is making sure that the full time people working the park this year are competent when it comes to safety and first aid. The guys working the park this year aren't the gnar talking type kids, but they are all practically EMT's. I know that for a lot of people that doesn't translate to much, but to "Stinky R", and her husband it may mean something. They are on the ball, should something go wrong. They are also mature and motivated. (again this is something a little different from the high scoolers who may have been hired in years past to help out)

    I wish I had more power than just a sounding board for you folks. I will pass along the info, and hope to meet all of you on the slopes. I really need to get out and ride!

    PS, just a little inside info, the GES race will use part of EC, and part of FrankenNorbacourse... those of you that remember the Good ol' days, will remember the Norba course rock garden! WhOot wHoOt!

    now I have to get to bed.

    D

    ninja edit ** I take no offense to constructive criticism, flaming yes, but yinz are offering good constructive stuff here!**

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunger
    PS, just a little inside info, the GES race will use part of EC, and part of FrankenNorbacourse... those of you that remember the Good ol' days, will remember the Norba course rock garden! WhOot wHoOt!

    now I have to get to bed.

    D

    ninja edit ** I take no offense to constructive criticism, flaming yes, but yinz are offering good constructive stuff here!**
    Any pics of said rock garden???

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunger
    The guys working the park this year aren't the gnar talking type kids, but they are all practically EMT's. They are also mature and motivated. (again this is something a little different from the high scoolers who may have been hired in years past to help out)
    That's great news. Medically qualified types should always be hired first and foremost. Maybe you could mention to the powers that be that if they were to, say, offer some sort of ride related compensation (discounted/free passes) for work days, they may be surprised to see how many local riders would come out with some volunteer labor. Have the volunteers sign a quick waiver and you got yourself a really motivated and (usually) knowledgeable workforce. We used to do this frequently in WV, with great results.

    Just a suggestion.
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  76. #76
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    If seven spring want stuff built cheap it's a pretty easy formula. All they have to do is advertise a build/ride weekend. Offer free lift tickets and maybe a discounted hotel room to out of towners. build saturday, ride sunday.
    Team _________

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    Observations from Saturday at 7Springs:
    -New trail still not open, but there seemed to be a lot of activity in that area (backhoe, chainsaws, etc.).
    -Existing trails a bit thrashed in some areas. Berms on lower half of 007 showing a lot of braking bumps.
    -A decent turnout, but appeared to be dominated by newbs. Has the resort finally alienated the established DH riding community? Hopefully today was an anomaly.
    -Still no amenities slopeside. They had food poolside up by the lodge, but they seem to have gone out of their way to block access to everyone but hotel guests. You now actually have to go in and out of the lodge to get into the pool area.
    -I can understand not wanting to spend the money to open the Goggle, but here's a silly question: why not open Emo's Pit? Surely that could turn a profit.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    Observations from Saturday at 7Springs:

    -A decent turnout, but appeared to be dominated by newbs. Has the resort finally alienated the established DH riding community? Hopefully today was an anomaly.
    I suspect they have turned away much of the local established DH riders. Most I've talked to around here seem to feel the same way I do.

  79. #79
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    I rode 7springs Saturday afternoon. This was my second time there this year, the first being Memorial day weekend. I also went at least 6 times last season. Let's just say that after 3 hours of riding downhill I got so bored I put my DH bike away, grabbed my trail bike and rode the "All Mountain" area instead. The trails they have are good and fun, but I can only ride the same 2.5 trails so many times before getting tired of it. They need to build at least 3 more complete top to bottom trails if they want to keep us local DH'ers interested.

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    i want to like 7 springs, but i'm feelin hosed. same trails as last year except in less good condition.

    yurting? is that really a trail?

    i like beer and it seems like they wanted to make it as difficult as possible for me to get some.

    loadin up a cooler next time. the wife will bbq'n off the tailgate. selling grilled cheese in the lot just like at a Phish show.
    “Life is hard; it’s harder if you’re stupid.”-John Wayne

  81. #81
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    well, there was a race at Wisp this past weekend...that may be were all the "established DH riders" were at ?

    This negative talk here certainly doesn't make me want to drive the 3-4 hours to come check out the place.

  82. #82
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    7springs

    Quote Originally Posted by moonraker
    well, there was a race at Wisp this past weekend...that may be were all the "established DH riders" were at ?

    This negative talk here certainly doesn't make me want to drive the 3-4 hours to come check out the place.
    If you've never been to 7Springs, it's probably worth an hour or two drive to check it out once, but I'm not sure I'd drive 3-4 hrs, unless you just have no other options closer by.

  83. #83
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    couple of guys that know their sh1t who will remain nameless have committed to coming back to the resort to work on Frankenstein over the next few weeks...Keep your eyes open, there are some good plans in the works as we speak...

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    It is worth checking out, a 3 or 4 hr drive isn't that bad. Don't let other people's opinions decide for you.

  85. #85
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    <object width="620" height="419"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=5070341&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=5070341&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="620" height="419"></embed></object>

    Preview video of some of the features for the race from GES / MMR. Figured some of you might want to see it. Have fun whoever is going.

  86. #86
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    it is worth mentioning the new line was not featured in that video...i think most of you east coast guys will make quick work of it, but there is definately a fast way to hit it which will give you a few seconds advantage over snaking through

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub
    It is worth checking out, a 3 or 4 hr drive isn't that bad. Don't let other people's opinions decide for you.
    +1

    The resort has it's downsides, but I can't imagine that a first time attendee would not have fun. We were up there for our first trip this season on Sunday and did almost 25 runs and I was grinning through every one of them.

  88. #88
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    I think it really depends on where you are coming from. If you are 3-4 hours West of 7S, sure. If you are 3-4 hours East or South East? No. Go to Diablo or the Shoe.

    I do have tons of fun riding what little 7S has, but if I was the same distance to Diablo or the Shoe, I wouldn't even bother.

  89. #89
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    Folks, let me be clear that I wasn't saying 7Springs isn't fun or worth checking out. All I'm saying is that if I lived closer to a better offering (Snowshoe, Diablo, Timberline, etc.), I wouldn't be inclined to put in a 7-8 hour round trip in one day to go to 7Springs. Granted, my opinion could be biased by the fact that I've been there a million times and have become somewhat bored with the terrain. If you've never been there before, don't have a better mountain close by, and aren't fazed by long drives, by all means, get there.

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    Too Rass beat me to the punch. What he said.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    Folks, let me be clear that I wasn't saying 7Springs isn't fun or worth checking out. All I'm saying is that if I lived closer to a better offering (Snowshoe, Diablo, Timberline, etc.), I wouldn't be inclined to put in a 7-8 hour round trip in one day to go to 7Springs. Granted, my opinion could be biased by the fact that I've been there a million times and have become somewhat bored with the terrain. If you've never been there before, don't have a better mountain close by, and aren't fazed by long drives, by all means, get there.

    I agree with this, there is quite a bit of bashing going on, but hopefully we can turn that around, all resorts need to get a start somewhere and for 1 season they did a pretty good job.

    I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, and post up pics/updates when i can. Come out and ride some dh.

  92. #92
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    Keep fighting that good fight brutha...soon you'll realize you're just spinning your wheels and bashing your head against the wall. It's always been that way there and it's never going to change.

  93. #93
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    the problems with the facilities (which we all know all too well) aside, they need more trails, and more challenging trails, now. i got bored and went home 3 hours early on opening day.

    they also need to find a way to make sure the crew is able to properly maintain the 3 whole trails they have now. i know those guys are killing themselves to do the best they can, but the management seems to be doing its best to make it impossible. i mean there were like 30 10-18" seedling maple trees growing in the middle of one of 007's berms on opening weekend. that kind of stuff just screams "we don't care" to riders.

    the thing that i think really gets people is that all last season they kept saying more trails were a month or less away. then we all find out the other trails got scrapped and they are starting over. now after the entire off season has gone by there are the same number of trails as there were on the free day last year, only in worse shape. i would love for there to be a cool place to go ride this close to home, but they are testing everyone's patience to the limit...

    until i hear about some MAJOR improvements (the new rock garden looks cool, but one new 50-100 foot trail spur isnt enough to keep my interest for more than half an hour) like 2 or 3 entirely new trails(not the 150 foot "trails" on the map) being open, i'm going to keep driving down to snowshoe.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanprjkt83
    I agree with this, there is quite a bit of bashing going on, but hopefully we can turn that around, all resorts need to get a start somewhere and for 1 season they did a pretty good job.

    I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, and post up pics/updates when i can. Come out and ride some dh.
    I agree, I have nothing bad to say about the trail crew and keep up the good fight. But also I don't see much bashing going on here. I see people simply stating facts that present 7 springs in a negative light. The facts are the facts, and will remain true until the resort does something to change.

    Last year I did everything I could to get my friends to ride there so the resort would make a killing and expand as promised. I believe the saying is "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I won't be fooled again

    Like I've said 1000x before. The resort has got to show some results. The hollow promises are no longer valid a year later.

  95. #95
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    Bummed, I have to go on weekdays (or at least Sunday-Tue) due to my job but just read they will be running a shuttle vs. the lifts on the weekdays..... among the other issues it took them almost 45 minutes to make a BLT at the restaurant by the pool last time so I just dont have much faith in the shuttle service working out.

    I figure I would be waiting far more than ridding

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee
    ...they will be running a shuttle vs. the lifts on the weekdays...
    I figure I would be waiting far more than ridding
    This is not a good development. I was hoping to make it down there a few weekdays this summer, but if they're running a shuttle I'm not gonna bother.

    And you're right, you would be waiting WAAAAY more than riding, since the average run down the hill only takes 3-5 minutes. And I'm sure that not only will you have to wait for the shuttle, but the actual shuttle ride back up the mountain will likely be much longer than the lift. Unless they're planning to run three or four different shuttle trucks, which I doubt.

    IMO they're better off not even being open Monday through Thursday. If they're taking a loss on the bike park already they're not doing themselves any favors by opening on days that are sparsely populated at almost every mountain. Although if they chose that route at this point I'm sure the season pass holders would be pissed.

    Is it possible that Seven Springs is expecting the high returns of a product they don't actually have: a destination resort. Build about 20 more trails, put on a 4 or 6 event DH race series (maybe tag a XC and/or Super D race onto those), offer some lodging deals for bike park riders, open up an eatery (no, the alpine slide snack shack doesn't count) and bar (no, the pool bar doesn't count) down by the lift and then maybe you've got yourself a product that will bring in a high volume of riders for days at a time.

    I am still holding out hope that they're just holding on and waiting out this recession and eventually will develop the park more along the lines of the original plan.

  97. #97
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    just read the shuttle thing. since spring, i've been hoarding my sick days so i could head out to 7 springs on weekdays come july. now it doesn't seem worth it.

    does anyone know to whom i should address concerns/complaints to?
    “Life is hard; it’s harder if you’re stupid.”-John Wayne

  98. #98
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    I may still go up for a day next week (not the 3 days I was planning) I will post how it worked out, for one day trip if the shuttle stinks I can just go ride the XC trails.... if I can find them


    Quote Originally Posted by breathing dirt
    just read the shuttle thing. since spring, i've been hoarding my sick days so i could head out to 7 springs on weekdays come july. now it doesn't seem worth it.

    does anyone know to whom i should address concerns/complaints to?

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    I would think the gas of running a shuttle would exceed the cost of running the lift...

    Man, they really keep shooting themselves in the foot. I don't think DH biking at 7 springs is going to last. Not as long as they're willing to put more effort into half-assing it instead of improving things.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by breathing dirt
    just read the shuttle thing. since spring, i've been hoarding my sick days so i could head out to 7 springs on weekdays come july. now it doesn't seem worth it.

    does anyone know to whom i should address concerns/complaints to?
    Eric Mauck, CEO

    In past years, emails to the former CEO were promptly returned, usally apologizing- but nothing changed.

  101. #101
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    A shuttle after a 3 minute downhill? What a silly idea. Do these guys even talk to mountain bikers before they make these kind of decisions? (That's a rhetorical question.) JCaino, all-in (labor, utilities, etc.), a lift costs about $1,000/day to operate. A shuttle is much, much cheaper. That's not to say it makes sense.

    A couple of weeks ago, I took some buddies from WV to 7Springs. They had a blast on the trails, but when we went looking for food... Snack bar? Closed. Pool bar? No food. We talked to some guy who worked there and he said they though it was going to rain, so they didn't open anything. Meanwhile, there were big crowds milling around the mountain. I'd really like to find the Operations guy for 7Springs and put a foot in his dumb ass.

  102. #102
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    I was there this weekend...

    Very disappointed .

    It seemed the same as when I was there last year. Same brake bumps, same death cookies and same washed out sections. No Wood booter to dirt lander like the Gallery shows. Nice Bait and Switch. All in all, I think I have built more feet of trail this summer than seven springs. Fun... but no evolution what so ever. I will probably try some where else next time.
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  103. #103
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    Which wood booter in the Gallery are you referring to? AFAIK there has never been a permanent wood jump in the park. The current wood features: the step-up "box" on Superconnector, the wood bridge to rock drop on Superconnector and the teensy-weensy little wood ramps on the rock qualifier for Showtime at the bottom of the mountain. There may have been a wood kicker built for the pro slopestyle demo last year but I think they removed that whole line right away.

    As far as new trail goes, they have not opened any, we'll see what the rest of the summer brings.
    Quote Originally Posted by wookie freeride
    Very disappointed .

    It seemed the same as when I was there last year. Same brake bumps, same death cookies and same washed out sections. No Wood booter to dirt lander like the Gallery shows. Nice Bait and Switch. All in all, I think I have built more feet of trail this summer than seven springs. Fun... but no evolution what so ever. I will probably try some where else next time.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie freeride
    Very disappointed .

    It seemed the same as when I was there last year. Same brake bumps, same death cookies and same washed out sections. No Wood booter to dirt lander like the Gallery shows. Nice Bait and Switch. All in all, I think I have built more feet of trail this summer than seven springs. Fun... but no evolution what so ever. I will probably try some where else next time.
    I was also there this weekend, riding the green/black specialized pitch. You said it man, same crap as last year. Actually, I would say its worse. Some of the lips on the table tops were pretty worn, breaking bumps were insane and many of the trails are less maintained than many of the local trails that are only worked on by volunteers. I got a huge dent in my newish frame from a rock that got kicked up on the beginner trail. Obviously $hit happens but it looks like nothing was done on that trail all year!

    No disrespect to the trail crew, they were working hard the whole day!

  105. #105
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    On the main page...

    The pics that fade to different pics... There is a guy doing a superman or a tail whip off a HUGH wood booter that says 7 springs right on it. He is right under the lift. Its the first pic that I see when I go to the site.

    Then I go to the Gallery and see a guy doing a huge flatty over what is obviously a gapped jump...under the lift at the top of the Hill. I saw no gapped jumps there this year or last.

    And also, last year, the lift worker said that the new Trail was almost done. I get there this year and the place looks the same. Exaclty the same.

    Why highlite feature that arnt there? Why say things are being made when they are not?
    Just trying to get you up there and get your 30.00.

    Not to mention the fact that there is no Bike shop or techs there, no place to get food or beer, and no locker rooms for showering.

    Well at least now I know whats going on up there and what to expect. Sub-par at best.

    To the trail crew... I am sympathetic. I am sure you are doing the best with what you are getting.

    To the resort... Shame, shame. With the way the economy is you should be doing things to attract people not discourage them from comming back.


    PIC included... This is the pic that is at the top of the Gallery. You would think if it is shown on the gallery it would be in the park.
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  106. #106
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    The pic of the wood booter just wasn't coming up for me, I had to stare at the site for like two minutes until it popped up.

    I don't disagree with anything you stated. It is a bit misleading, and the resort needs to step it up to continue to draw customers.

    I was up this past weekend with Mrs. PC. It was not busy, I doubt they are turning a profit with the volume of riders they had on Sunday. We only rode a couple of the trails: the beginner trail is pretty beat up in some sections, and starting to get rutted out a bit. That was a fun, easy trail...which is a little less fun now due to its poor current condition. That's not a knock on the trail crew, it may just be the nature of the terrain and inevitable erosion. "007" is getting little worn down, especially the tables on the top sections. The braking bumps are a little annoying, but probably inevitable with the general traffic this resort sees on a regular basis.

    Unfortunately, the Mrs took a nasty tumble on our fourth run and that cut our day short. She happened to crash directly in front of the 7 Springs crew, she couldn't of timed it any better. Or worse.

    We were taking our first run down 007 and I was leading, taking it very slow on purpose. We rolled through the top section just fine. Then we crossed the road at the top and up and over the hip that leads to the rhythm section (a five pack of sorts). I braked checked heading into the whoops (since they can buck you if you're not paying attention) and she must not have noticed. Apparently she came in hot to the rollers, almost ran into my back tire, and slammed on her brakes. I didn't see how it went down (I was in front) but I picture it like this: handful of brakes > released brakes but now a rolling rag doll > bouncing (out of control) over the remaining rollers while picking up speed > endoing on the very last roller in that section > slamming stomach first into her stem > cartwheeling over the bars and landing on her shoulder/head on the ground.

    I gotta give props to the staff that were at the ready to provide emergency care. She just got the wind knocked out of her and picked up some nice bruises and scrapes on her shoulder and knee (yeah, she was wearing full body armor). It could've been a lot worse, my thanks goes to Quinn for doing an assessment and providing medical care and the other guys for scrambling to make sure things went smoothly. I'm glad that 7 Springs has invested in putting qualified individuals on the mountain to respond to events like this.

    And even though our day got cut short I think we got our money's worth out of the armor rental. But I'm not sure if my wife's downhill career is going to continue after that episode.
    Quote Originally Posted by wookie freeride
    The pics that fade to different pics... There is a guy doing a superman or a tail whip off a HUGH wood booter that says 7 springs right on it. He is right under the lift. Its the first pic that I see when I go to the site.

    Then I go to the Gallery and see a guy doing a huge flatty over what is obviously a gapped jump...under the lift at the top of the Hill. I saw no gapped jumps there this year or last.

    And also, last year, the lift worker said that the new Trail was almost done. I get there this year and the place looks the same. Exaclty the same.

    Why highlite feature that arnt there? Why say things are being made when they are not?
    Just trying to get you up there and get your 30.00.

    Not to mention the fact that there is no Bike shop or techs there, no place to get food or beer, and no locker rooms for showering.

    Well at least now I know whats going on up there and what to expect. Sub-par at best.

    To the trail crew... I am sympathetic. I am sure you are doing the best with what you are getting.

    To the resort... Shame, shame. With the way the economy is you should be doing things to attract people not discourage them from comming back.


    PIC included... This is the pic that is at the top of the Gallery. You would think if it is shown on the gallery it would be in the park.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC

    Apparently she came in hot to the rollers, almost ran into my back tire, and slammed on her brakes. I didn't see how it went down (I was in front) but I picture it like this: handful of brakes > released brakes but now a rolling rag doll > bouncing (out of control) over the remaining rollers while picking up speed > endoing on the very last roller in that section > slamming stomach first into her stem > cartwheeling over the bars and landing on her shoulder/head on the ground.

    I gotta give props to the staff that were at the ready to provide emergency care. She just got the wind knocked out of her and picked up some nice bruises and scrapes on her shoulder and knee (yeah, she was wearing full body armor). It could've been a lot worse, my thanks goes to Quinn for doing an assessment and providing medical care and the other guys for scrambling to make sure things went smoothly. I'm glad that 7 Springs has invested in putting qualified individuals on the mountain to respond to events like this.
    Glad she is ok and good to hear the staff was right there incase you needed them, getting the wind knocked out of you is scary.... even when I know I am ok gasping (or tying to) for a few seconds seems like minutes!

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie freeride
    Very disappointed .

    It seemed the same as when I was there last year. Same brake bumps, same death cookies and same washed out sections. No Wood booter to dirt lander like the Gallery shows. Nice Bait and Switch. All in all, I think I have built more feet of trail this summer than seven springs. Fun... but no evolution what so ever. I will probably try some where else next time.
    I was up 2 Sundays ago and noticed the braking bumps and erosion were pretty bad. The trails/jumps looked like they really hadn't had any work done to them since the previous year. Another thing I noticed was that the soil type of the trails seemed to be really rocky. Especially the jumps down below. They looked like someone had used supercheap fill instead of quality dirt. This led to everything being a little on the sketchy side. I can understand if they want to make the majority of the jump out of cheap fill, but at least top it off with something decent.


    Also, when I was there I decided to rent a bike instead of taking one of my XC bikes (and tearing them up like last time-I dented the downtube on one of my brand new Mavericks when the bumper on my dual crown fork smacked the frame due to a sweet wreck.) I went into the shop to rent a bike, but they only had one left- a 15" ("i'm 6'2-265lbs). Well I wasn't about to stand around so I took it. I had to wait for them to swap on a new handlebar since apparently someone had bent it the day before. So after awhile I was given my rental and I took to the slopes. As you can imagine, it was a mushy ride as I coudn't get enough preload in the rear and they told me they couldn't adjust the air pressure in the front (even though there was a schrader fitting in the top of the right leg.) And they had forgotten to tighten the grips, so they were rotating while I was riding and I was able to pull one off the bar without trying to hard. So after the first run I took the bike into the shop and the girl behind the counter gave me an allen wrench and I was able to tighten the grips myself.

    So after a minute I headed back to the slopes for my second run. Everything was going ok (besides bottoming out on everything) until near the end of the run (right as you come out of the trees and drop down to make a left for the tabletops) I went to grab some rear brake and the brake lever fell off in my hand! Oh man-thankfully the suspension was so soft I wasn't going real fast because I didn't want to bottom it out! Talk about 2 negatives making a postive! So I coasted back towards the shop. As I was coasting I was watching the front fork out of boredom to see how much travel I was using. That is when I noticed the right stanchion was absolutely coated with oil. I had seen a little bit of oil when I first started, but now everything was wet. I walked the bike back into the shop to get the brake lever fixed, as I did so someone was trading in a 16" Kona. Thankfully I was able to snag that bike and leave my POS there. The new Kona worked better, but the front end felt like it was slowly losing air pressure. I noticed it was starting to use full travel on the front more and more, and I'm pretty sure sag was increasing with every run. It could have been that I was riding more aggressively, but I doubt it.

    While I was there I ran into someone on the trails doing some upkeep. He informed me that he was trying to do a little trailwork. Apparently 2 of their guys are out with injuries, and that must be 50% of their workforce. Lol.

    It wasn't real busy, and that surprised me, as I was there closing day last year and it was packed (between riders and Autumnfest or whatever there was about a 10 minute wait at the Lift.) There was absolutely no wait whatsover on Sunday, which definitely made the day much better.

    Sorry for the novel. Maybe I should label that previous story-"Why I purchased an '09 Demo 7 and will never rent again." Lol.

    And I'll be trying someplace new this weekend instead of returning-I'm heading to Wisp to give them a try.
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    Regardless of the conditions, the best way for them to be able to keep making improvements is if we keep going - just sayin'
    Last edited by yzblue242; 07-07-2009 at 01:08 PM.

  110. #110
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    I heard some employees talking and they were looking for invoices so they could start selling the rental bikes. Do they normally sell them this early in the season?
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  111. #111
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    Historically, I think they've sold the bikes in the Fall. Can't believe they'd start selling right in the middle of what should be the busy season.

  112. #112
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    Normally it's after Labor Day. Given the way they are cutting corners and laying off staff at blistering rates...it wouldn't surprise me if they sell now. I really don't expect the DH park to be operating next year.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzblue242
    Regardless of the conditions, the best way for them to be able to keep making improvements is if we keep going - just sayin'

    But what if we keep going and the resort keeps going backwards?

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    I heard some employees talking and they were looking for invoices so they could start selling the rental bikes. Do they normally sell them this early in the season?
    I'm not convinced they got new rental bikes for this season. Those bikes seem to be very beaten for a rental bike a small, sparsely used resort about a month after opening. Just sayin...

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    I'm not convinced they got new rental bikes for this season. Those bikes seem to be very beaten for a rental bike a small, sparsely used resort about a month after opening. Just sayin...
    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I mentioned something to the guy I was with about that. Told him I couldn't believe how beat up the rentals were if they were only a month old.
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    Yea, at some point you're going to just have to realize that you're doing yourself a disservice by going and paying money for sub-par returns.

    If 7 Springs wants this to survive, they're going to have to invest time and money. That's how you get return on an investment, by actually paying attention and contributing to it. Their business sense when it comes to running the downhill park is a joke.

    Frankly, I don't feel like supporting a business that doesn't seem to support me as a rider. I was looking forward to this year up there but have been left with a TERRIBLE taste in my mouth.

    And I don't get how volunteers can build some f'n sweet new trails out in Moraine in less than half a year and the 7 springs trail staff can't even maintain (or get enough hours to be able to) what they already have.

    I know everyone wants more trails at 7 springs, but until they can properly maintain the trails they already have, I'm afraid they've already got a few nails in the coffin.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  117. #117
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    I know I am getting OT but Moraine is a blast, and the new loop and line to the Marina is just so cool....



    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino
    And I don't get how volunteers can build some f'n sweet new trails out in Moraine in less than half a year and the 7 springs trail staff can't even maintain (or get enough hours to be able to) what they already have.

  118. #118
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    Went to WISP on Sunday-WOW!

    Not sure if I'll ever go back to 7 springs. They are both a 2 hour drive, so I wouldn't be saving any time by going back to 7S.

    Wisp had so many trails more than 7S. Their Dual Slalom was pretty wild, and Edgewood Park was a blast. I didn't think their lift was too slow. Yes it was slower than 7S but not bad by any means. It wasn't real busy Sunday, there was never a wait, so we were able to make at least 15 runs.

    Can't wait to go again!
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    We were there on Sunday....

    Had a great time. I'd go back again.

    Had a really good talk with one of the DH Park employees. He was on bike at the time and then a few minutes later we saw him head up the mtn. on a quad to fix some stuff.
    His answers to our quesions included...
    Hire freeze (could end soon) .... The problem isn't in the intentions or spirit of the place...it's all about economics from what he said.

    The lift costs $600.00 per day to operate. Plus the 2 required employees at the bottom and 2 at the top that are needed (dunno if salary is included in that $ figure or not).
    So, as stupid as a shuttle sounds...it has to be cheaper.
    Especially, as he said, for the 4-5 riders that they average on a weekday.

    Negatives? We didn't have many as we came prepared. Brought everything that we needed and didn't need to rely on the Resort. Bikes, cooler full o' food and beverage....
    Yet we did clean up, change clothes, and head to the pool's "tiki" bar. No issues getting in.

    The only thing that we saw bad was folks being turned away per no DH Bike rentals avail. We asked the guy at the counter as the one that we saw was in HORRIBLE shape. He said that they had 5 working bikes for that day.... Not too cool. Having that stuff for people to try out the park (and to like it and WANT to be return a returning customer) is def. necessary.

    Did I see areas that could be worked on? Yes. Was I prepared to see it and to not care too much and just enjoy myself? Yes.

    But, again, we came with the mindset to not "need" the park except for a trip up to the top all day.

    I agree with some of the above posts in that for the park to progress and continue we all have to keep going there.....

    Oh, and uh...the "Dig and Ride Day" seems to be some sort of a liability issue. As cool as it sounds, and as sure as I am that some/most riders who would take the time for such a day probably know what they're doing when digging/pounding dirt....the place is a rather large business and I can see their side of things there.
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    thanks

    Thanks for the props on our trails at moraine. I dont think it can be considered a DH trail. For some rough numbers that entire loop and downhill section of the ridge (at moraine) has 300+ man hours. That is no machines, chainsaw, and next to no materials. i would put that at trail at around 2 or 3 DH trails when you are comparing length. That is for a trail that is pretty much just roughed in. Add at least another 100 to 200 hours of refinement for a competed nice set of trails. That is still a ton of ton of money to throw into trails. I dont understand how the dig and ride idea wouldnt work if the trails were supervised by park staff and reviewed prior to being opened. I am sure it was a horse that was already beaten to death above, but I am pretty certain that there is a legal way to build with volunteer labor when the park reviews the work and certifies that it is good to go. Waivers for workers getting injured would be fine for the crews out there. Everyone doesnt need to know how to be a master trail builder. Someone has to be in charge and someone has to move a shovel. The hard part is building the jumps and dialing the berms. You can tell that 007 was dialed by a professional vs. some of the random crappy trails at wisp. While there are a great deal more trails there they arent nearly as well designed as the stuff at the springs....just my opinnion.

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    Dunno how my post from 7 hours ago went so high up...

    Maybe I mistakenly replied at the end of Page 1? Anyway...here's what we thought....

    We were there on Sunday....

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Had a great time. I'd go back again.

    Had a really good talk with one of the DH Park employees. He was on bike at the time and then a few minutes later we saw him head up the mtn. on a quad to fix some stuff.
    His answers to our quesions included...
    Hire freeze (could end soon) .... The problem isn't in the intentions or spirit of the place...it's all about economics from what he said.

    The lift costs $600.00 per day to operate. Plus the 2 required employees at the bottom and 2 at the top that are needed (dunno if salary is included in that $ figure or not).
    So, as stupid as a shuttle sounds...it has to be cheaper.
    Especially, as he said, for the 4-5 riders that they average on a weekday.

    Negatives? We didn't have many as we came prepared. Brought everything that we needed and didn't need to rely on the Resort. Bikes, cooler full o' food and beverage....
    Yet we did clean up, change clothes, and head to the pool's "tiki" bar. No issues getting in.

    The only thing that we saw bad was folks being turned away per no DH Bike rentals avail. We asked the guy at the counter as the one that we saw was in HORRIBLE shape. He said that they had 5 working bikes for that day.... Not too cool. Having that stuff for people to try out the park (and to like it and WANT to be return a returning customer) is def. necessary.

    Did I see areas that could be worked on? Yes. Was I prepared to see it and to not care too much and just enjoy myself? Yes.

    But, again, we came with the mindset to not "need" the park except for a trip up to the top all day.

    I agree with some of the above posts in that for the park to progress and continue we all have to keep going there.....

    Oh, and uh...the "Dig and Ride Day" seems to be some sort of a liability issue. As cool as it sounds, and as sure as I am that some/most riders who would take the time for such a day probably know what they're doing when digging/pounding dirt....the place is a rather large business and I can see their side of things there.
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  122. #122
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    Your post showed up on page 4 for me, right where it should.
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    Just wanted to add I finally made it to Wisp today. That place is awesome, it has exactly the type of riding I like (rooty, rocky, steep natural terrain). Plus it has some nice sized drops to progress my skills. I won't be going to 7springs until there is some improvement!

  124. #124
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    Anyone go to 7S today? How bad is it, lol?

    I'm heading up tomorrow to ride with a friend that has a pass and I have a gift card to cover my pass, so, even if it sucks I'm not out money and feeling pissed that I gave 7S some jing.

    I have to get to Wisp, I keep hearing better and better things about the place. It's nice to know *somebody* in the area has a clue on how to move forward rather than backward. Yes, I'm talking to you 7S Management.

  125. #125
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    The lack of trail maintenance at 7S is pretty disgusting. I'm not blaming the staff here, but management is really ruining DH. The place was empty on a weekend and I can see why.

  126. #126
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    Looks like the folks at Timberline are eating 7Springs' lunch.

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=220830

    All this and Timberline (in Canaan Valley) is 2 hours closer than Snowshoe. Build your own lines AND ride for free? That's crazy good. I'm not into DH, but I know some of these cats from Timberline, and they're quality people. You guys should give them a look sometime.
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    Not that much closer than Snowshoe for us Pittsburgh folks, but I'll be heading to TLine 8/15...

  128. #128
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    Show me a resort in the Mid-A area that's not eating their lunch in either biking or Wintersports. Recent word is the major ski clubs that have been there forever are pulling out of 7S because they have had enough. I guess it's pretty bad when you see life long regulars at the resort with "Nuck Futting Ski Club" bumper stickers on their cars in the parking lot.

    The customers are speaking, but apparently, nobody is listening.

  129. #129
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    Running the Lift

    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino
    I would think the gas of running a shuttle would exceed the cost of running the lift...

    Man, they really keep shooting themselves in the foot. I don't think DH biking at 7 springs is going to last. Not as long as they're willing to put more effort into half-assing it instead of improving things.
    Agreed they SHOULD be running the lift but as far as cost, running the lift would far exceed the cost of ground shuttle, especially if not enough riders to warrant it (which is probably warranted given what I am reading). At large W. Coast ski areas in Tahoe and the like they delayed opening a lot of terrain this year even at Kirkwood where there was an absolute ton of snow (grant you after a "Januly" of near nothingness) because lift sales, retail, lodging, etc. were down because of the economy or what have you.

    As a little O/T aside - most ski areas, which equal MTB areas, are run by non-sport enthusiast business people. If they hired people who were both Financiers and enthusiasts as COO, CFO, etc. they would make A LOT of money and figure things out, however this is almost never the case. Typically a detached Corporation or wealthy individuals end up buying great areas with a ton of potential and running the place dry, often into BK.

    They simply have upside down / backward business models where they think Capex can be financed by operating revenues by upping prices and selling condos, etc (this doesn't work even in the best economies). They think if you sell real estate by building out the "bed base", food, beverage, retail, higher priced tickets and control ancillary revenue streams then they can take that $$$ and put into the mountain LATER. But they have a stick and NO carrot. Why would I buy a pricey condo, pay high lift ticket prices, etc. etc. if the mountain didn't support it based on promises of "planned" lift upgrades, new lift, new trails, etc. when I could buy at an established area like Vail and have the goods already there (assuming you could afford it - they try to essentially mirror the prices less maybe 20%).

    PS. Sorry for the rant, as you can tell this is a bit of a sore spot since I am both a financier by schooling / trade / training and enthusiast and kills me to see this happen time and again when someone buys a great area, you hear it will be "different this time around" and they end up burning the place into the ground like what seems to be happening at Kirkwood. All that snow and you can't open chair 10 until 11:30 am on a powder day because you won't pay enough people to blast properly and run the lift...that really keeps people coming back!!!
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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    Show me a resort in the Mid-A area that's not eating their lunch in either biking or Wintersports. Recent word is the major ski clubs that have been there forever are pulling out of 7S because they have had enough. I guess it's pretty bad when you see life long regulars at the resort with "Nuck Futting Ski Club" bumper stickers on their cars in the parking lot.

    The customers are speaking, but apparently, nobody is listening.
    both local areas miss the boat in summer and winter sports its a wonder they stay open.

    the springs locals are particular pissed off though. Give the Mountain back to the people.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    Show me a resort in the Mid-A area that's not eating their lunch in either biking or Wintersports. Recent word is the major ski clubs that have been there forever are pulling out of 7S because they have had enough. I guess it's pretty bad when you see life long regulars at the resort with "Nuck Futting Ski Club" bumper stickers on their cars in the parking lot.

    The customers are speaking, but apparently, nobody is listening.
    Its interesting you mention about the wintersports. I gave up on skiing there about 4 years ago, for a couple reasons, but didn't know there was a more widespread problem. I guess I can't point out exactly why I gave up skiing there, but I just felt like they weren't doing a great job. I've been happier elsewhere.

    As mentioned before, go to Wisp. If you like natural DH and technical drops you will not be disappointed. If you like jump lines you may...

  132. #132
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    Just out of curiosity, what's the beef with the winter side of things at 7Springs? This is the first time I've heard this.

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    You don't want to open that can of worms...trust me.

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    Heh heh. Again, just curious. I've only been up there a couple of times in the past few years during winter for boarding. Granted, limited exposure, but I didn't notice the kind of problems they seem to be having in the summertime (lack of amenities, etc.).

  135. #135
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    The Summer problems pale in comparison to the Winter problems lately.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    Just out of curiosity, what's the beef with the winter side of things at 7Springs? This is the first time I've heard this.
    I guess I'll go for it. At least some of my reasons. First, for whatever reason, the resorts goals seem to be attraching those who are more into skiing style than substance. Not unlike the problems we have in the summer, in the winter they aim to please those looking for a "high class" lifestyle. They've expanded many of their offerings as a winter resort, with the exception of anything winter sport related! They offer no glades runs and hardly anything challenging. The size of the crowds are horrendous. The poseur factor here is incredibly high, worse than any place I've been. Admittedly, I haven't been out to the big resorts in the west, but I do hear the locals complain about crowds and poseurs there too!

    The snow/trail report is a always a lie! We've had some weak winters here the past few years so they are probably trying to draw guests but its horribly misleading. I suspect they measure the deepest snow drift they can find and call it "base depth". I've been there when they claim to have over 20 inches of base depth yet I have to ski around grass spots. It's not an issue for me as I live nearby and get usually guess what the conditions will be, but the dishonesty is not appreciated

    Back to our weak winters lately. They still have been opening as early in the fall, and staying open as late in the spring, but its meant only having a few runs open, and even those that are have poor conditions. But don't expect a discount. Yes, you will be paying more to ski 3 poor runs at 7springs for a day than you would an entire mountain at Killington.

    Like I said, I can't nail down exactly what bothers me so much about the winter experience, but going there usually results in frustrations. When I really want to ski, I'm happier elsewhere. However, for a nice weekend getaway for a non-skier, I'm guessing 7 springs would do a good job(maybe something like a couples weekend for a couple who doesn't ski much)

  137. #137
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    Interesting. Presumably they're following the dollars (i.e., the newbie family types there for a weekend are more profitable than the hardcore skiers). They also seem to be putting a lot of money into the parks (superpipe, etc.), which I understand wouldn't appeal to the more traditional skier. I do see this differently than the summer issues, though. Although it arguably sucks for a certain segment of customer, at least the winter decisions appear to be calculated business decisions (lying aside). Re: Summer, not having food/beverage (a revenue stream) readily available, as an example, is just plain stupid. It makes no business sense.

  138. #138
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    I was 100% wrong..... the shuttle was awesome, actually faster than the lift (no waiting to load and unload the bikes) and nice being able to BS with everyone in the van and not just the 2 people in your lift.

    There may not be many trails but they seem to be a nice mix of steep rocks, drops, jump and flowy type stuff that every one seemed to have a couple favorite sections..... I can completely see where wisp might be preferred by some but its pretty much all steep rocky rooty..... I like the mix at 7 Springs and the lift at Wisp is insanely slow.

    From what I gathered the new Frankenstein trail is going to be the crazy one, they said it should be done pretty soon... seemed to be working none stop on it while we where there

    hopefully going again next week

    Ray
    Last edited by Ray Lee; 08-12-2009 at 07:47 AM.

  139. #139
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    Good to hear!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    You don't want to open that can of worms...trust me.
    I would actually like to open that can of worms. As an employee I have seen tons of fellow employees complain and leave, but nobody provides real reasons for their displeasure. The locals complain that they are losing the mountain and only cite the fact that the bars close earlier, and I will add that the snowmaking/grooming (I say groom less, more bumps!) have suffered but that's possibly a temporary thing as many long time employees were lured away by Hidden Valley. (I hope that it's a temp. thing)

    While a few things have declined since Nutting bought the resort, it isn't the dire situation many are making it out to be, at least not yet. What is it everyone is so peeved about?

  141. #141
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    I responded without reading this.

    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    I guess I'll go for it. At least some of my reasons. First, for whatever reason, the resorts goals seem to be attraching those who are more into skiing style than substance. Not unlike the problems we have in the summer, in the winter they aim to please those looking for a "high class" lifestyle. They've expanded many of their offerings as a winter resort, with the exception of anything winter sport related! They offer no glades runs and hardly anything challenging.
    This isn't true. There are numerous glades that are very skiable when there is snow, and aside from BK, 7 springs has more bumps than any mid-Atlantic resort I've been to.

    The size of the crowds are horrendous. The poseur factor here is incredibly high, worse than any place I've been. Admittedly, I haven't been out to the big resorts in the west, but I do hear the locals complain about crowds and poseurs there too!
    The resort is within a few hours of 4 major metro areas. The crowds are nothing new. It isn't more crowded than it was before the Nuttings.

    [QUOTE}The snow/trail report is a always a lie! We've had some weak winters here the past few years so they are probably trying to draw guests but its horribly misleading. I suspect they measure the deepest snow drift they can find and call it "base depth". I've been there when they claim to have over 20 inches of base depth yet I have to ski around grass spots. It's not an issue for me as I live nearby and get usually guess what the conditions will be, but the dishonesty is not appreciated[/QUOTE]
    Again, nothing different than before the Nuttings, and the same thing most resorts do. They all fudge the reports (there are exceptions, but not many) but come on, it's Pennsylvania. If it is 50 degrees out you know you're going to see some grass, do you need a snow report for that?

    Back to our weak winters lately. They still have been opening as early in the fall, and staying open as late in the spring, but its meant only having a few runs open, and even those that are have poor conditions. But don't expect a discount. Yes, you will be paying more to ski 3 poor runs at 7springs for a day than you would an entire mountain at Killington.
    Can't argue this one, the day passes are too expensive and been getting worse. Thing is, most locals/employees aren't buying day passes, so this isn't going to factor into the complaints of too many of them.

  142. #142
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    I didn't mention any problems with the Nuttings with regards to winter, just with the resort. I'll stand by my statement that there is hardly anything challenging, though I must have missed the glades. I prefer other resorts. Sorry if that offends

    I don't have a problem seeing grass when its 50 degrees. I just have a problem when I hear 20 inch base and see tons of grass. Again I'm local so common sense prevails but its dishonest. All resorts do it to some extent but never to the extreme I see here.

    I'm a local and I buy day passes...

    You seem pretty intent on defending the Nuttings

  143. #143
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    Winter question

    For the boarders/skiers: Who makes better snow, S7 or HV? All I care about is quality of manmade snow in this question. Need to buy a pass somewhere now that I'm back in PA, can't be driving to Snowshoe every weekend. Thanks.
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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    For the boarders/skiers: Who makes better snow, S7 or HV? All I care about is quality of manmade snow in this question. Need to buy a pass somewhere now that I'm back in PA, can't be driving to Snowshoe every weekend. Thanks.
    why not? i do it all sumer...

  145. #145
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    winter sports

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    The Summer problems pale in comparison to the Winter problems lately.

    IMO, if you are a real skier you should save you $$$ and just take a nice trip out west each year where they have mountains (not hills) and natural snow. I stopped skiing on the E Coast (including Killington and the like) when I was in high school because u spend all your time on a lift or in a line to get on one.

    When you here about weekend crowds out west, those are spoiled locals talking. Locals don't ski Sat's because they don't have to, and Sat. "Lines" are all relative - not to be compared with east coast HILLS - base lines of maybe 5 - 10 minutes, mid mountain, back bowl areas, etc still under 5 minutes if any at all. Also remember the difference is skiable acres (most regarded areas have plenty of terrain above tree line, hence I say MOUNTAINS, vs hills on the east coast.

    Also, out West what would be OB on E Coast is all primarily in bounds. Hucking 20 foot cliffs is 100% allowed and major draws at places like Vail, Crested Butte, Whistler/Blackcomb, etc. There are so many chutes at many of the areas they don't bother naming them.

    Well, you get the idea. You spend your day on the Mtn, scouting new lines and terrain, etc. And lifts are just a matter of open or closed (wind and white outs make a lot of the best terrain accessible only by surface lift, and may be some additional hiking involved to drop off some of the summits and cornices. The only thing you may complain about is the amount of catwalks necessary to get around the mountain - which is why you can spend a couple weeks at one resort (but there are almost always more near by, exceptions Telluride being an exception and not the rule - and well worthy of a full week regardless).

    OK. Finished my rant, but I wouldn't even put my skis through a day on the E Coast, VT included. Even if you get snow on the east coast, it's NOT powder 95% of the time and there vertical feet and terrain are simply not worthy of a lift ticket (which my season pass out west only costs me $200 for the season, making it not only superior but cheaper out west.

    Done ranting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    I didn't mention any problems with the Nuttings with regards to winter, just with the resort. I'll stand by my statement that there is hardly anything challenging, though I must have missed the glades. I prefer other resorts. Sorry if that offends
    Personal prefference certainly plays a part, but I don't know of many mid-atlantic resorts that offer any more challenge than 7 springs, with the exceptions of the back side at snowshoe, maybe White Grass/tree skiing at Timberline (haven't skied white grass, so can't really tell) and Blue Knob, which is rarely open enough to matter. In reality it all pales compared to the challenge of VT or out west, so this part of the argument is kind of silly anyways.

    I don't have a problem seeing grass when its 50 degrees. I just have a problem when I hear 20 inch base and see tons of grass. Again I'm local so common sense prevails but its dishonest. All resorts do it to some extent but never to the extreme I see here.
    A 20 inch base is nothing. Think about it, if they blow snow for a month at the beginining of the season and later in the year claim a 20 inch base, it means there is 20 inches in the middle of most trials and grass poking through the trouble spots. At the height of the season you're looking at a 40+ inch base. The real thing to look at is the surface conditions. This is where lying screws you. I'm not condoning lying, I just think a lot of people put too much stock in numbers that are measured by ever resort in a very subjective way.

    I'm a local and I buy day passes...
    This puts you in a different catergory then. I'm guessing you ski a few days a year, otherwise you'd do well to get a pass somewhere and save money. The people I want to hear opinions from are the ones that complain about the Nuttings treatment of the locals. What have they done that is causing people to completely change allegiances and abandon the resort. You seem to be one that has never been high on 7 springs, and there is obviously nothing wrong with that, go where you like. I'm really more interested in hearing what has actually changed at the resort that is making so many so angry.

    You seem pretty intent on defending the Nuttings
    I realize it's coming off that way, but that isn't my intent. I hate what they've done to the Pirates and there are some things I don't like about how they manage the resort. Point is I hear so many people complain about them without stating any definitive reason for the hate.


    Quote Originally Posted by swl
    IMO, if you are a real skier you should save you $$$ and just take a nice trip out west each year where they have mountains (not hills) and natural snow. I stopped skiing on the E Coast (including Killington and the like) when I was in high school because u spend all your time on a lift or in a line to get on one.
    I would contend that if you're not willing to ski in the East and only ski a week or two a year out west, then you are the one that isn't a real skier. We all take trips, the hardcores are the ones that still ski the crappy snow in the rain because they love to ski that much. If you had to move to bike hell would you just wait until your one week a year in moab to ride?


    ...If this is too off-topic I'll stop and we can move this to Epicski.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdburch
    why not? i do it all sumer...
    16 month old daughter. And the drive in summer is relatively easier than winter driving. But mostly, the daughter thing. This will be first winter not living within a few miles of SS. I haven't missed the area this summer due to the plentiful singletrack in the Laurel Highlands, but I'm used to 90-100 days on the slopes (OK, 50-60 last year...again, daughter) and afraid I'll be disappointed with either 7S or HV. Plus, it was real nice to basically not pay for anything at SS.
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  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    For the boarders/skiers: Who makes better snow, S7 or HV? All I care about is quality of manmade snow in this question. Need to buy a pass somewhere now that I'm back in PA, can't be driving to Snowshoe every weekend. Thanks.
    It's not even a fair contest anymore. Hidden Valley hands down. The two resort's snow making isn't even with in the same zip code of each other.

    HV is all new Tecno-Alpin that produces amazing snow.

    7S is antiquated. It was the best....20 years ago, but has long since been passed with much better technology, by both Wisp and HV.

    If you want good snow that handles the freeze thaw of the Mid Atlantic without turning to garbage, HV.

    If you like crystallized styrofoam that turns to ice quickly, 7S.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by swl
    IMO, if you are a real skier you should save you $$$ and just take a nice trip out west each year where they have mountains (not hills) and natural snow. I stopped skiing on the E Coast (including Killington and the like) when I was in high school because u spend all your time on a lift or in a line to get on one.

    When you here about weekend crowds out west, those are spoiled locals talking. Locals don't ski Sat's because they don't have to, and Sat. "Lines" are all relative - not to be compared with east coast HILLS - base lines of maybe 5 - 10 minutes, mid mountain, back bowl areas, etc still under 5 minutes if any at all. Also remember the difference is skiable acres (most regarded areas have plenty of terrain above tree line, hence I say MOUNTAINS, vs hills on the east coast.

    Also, out West what would be OB on E Coast is all primarily in bounds. Hucking 20 foot cliffs is 100% allowed and major draws at places like Vail, Crested Butte, Whistler/Blackcomb, etc. There are so many chutes at many of the areas they don't bother naming them.

    Well, you get the idea. You spend your day on the Mtn, scouting new lines and terrain, etc. And lifts are just a matter of open or closed (wind and white outs make a lot of the best terrain accessible only by surface lift, and may be some additional hiking involved to drop off some of the summits and cornices. The only thing you may complain about is the amount of catwalks necessary to get around the mountain - which is why you can spend a couple weeks at one resort (but there are almost always more near by, exceptions Telluride being an exception and not the rule - and well worthy of a full week regardless).

    OK. Finished my rant, but I wouldn't even put my skis through a day on the E Coast, VT included. Even if you get snow on the east coast, it's NOT powder 95% of the time and there vertical feet and terrain are simply not worthy of a lift ticket (which my season pass out west only costs me $200 for the season, making it not only superior but cheaper out west.

    Done ranting.
    Oh boy....you might want to check one's qualifications before saying that. There are a few professional skiers in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    It's not even a fair contest anymore. Hidden Valley hands down. The two resort's snow making isn't even with in the same zip code of each other.

    HV is all new Tecno-Alpin that produces amazing snow.

    7S is antiquated. It was the best....20 years ago, but has long since been passed with much better technology, by both Wisp and HV.

    If you want good snow that handles the freeze thaw of the Mid Atlantic without turning to garbage, HV.

    If you like crystallized styrofoam that turns to ice quickly, 7S.
    I feel like I'm defending the Nuttings too much here, but here goes...

    Since the Dupre's are no longer the owners 7 Springs is no longer tied to HKD and therefore I see them switching a LOT of the guns to the same ones HV has. They had one last season as sort of a test project and I am hopeful they start popping up all over the place.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jralz
    I feel like I'm defending the Nuttings too much here, but here goes...

    Since the Dupre's are no longer the owners 7 Springs is no longer tied to HKD and therefore I see them switching a LOT of the guns to the same ones HV has. They had one last season as sort of a test project and I am hopeful they start popping up all over the place.
    This is true, they are. But (and it's a BIG but) they have hundreds of guns to replace and compressors, water line, etc. It's a huge upgrade that will take a very long time without a monumental amount of money at one time. The kind of money Nutting is not willing to spend at one time. They are years away from being up to date because of relying on HKD forever.

    You don't have to tell me how it works there, I've been there for 15 years. I know it inside and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    This is true, they are. But (and it's a BIG but) they have hundreds of guns to replace and compressors, water line, etc. It's a huge upgrade that will take a very long time without a monumental amount of money at one time. The kind of money Nutting is not willing to spend at one time. They are years away from being up to date because of relying on HKD forever.

    You don't have to tell me how it works there, I've been there for 15 years. I know it inside and out.
    I'm not trying to tell you how it is, I know who you are, you would know me to see me. I haven't skied HV in a long time but from everything I hear the snow is better, I just don't want to ski the boring terrain over there, and despite the nuttings shortcomings I think the upgrades will happen quicker than you think, they know HV is on the way up and they have to do something about it. It won't be complete this season but it's isn't going to take a decade either.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jralz
    I'm not trying to tell you how it is, I know who you are, you would know me to see me. I haven't skied HV in a long time but from everything I hear the snow is better, I just don't want to ski the boring terrain over there, and despite the nuttings shortcomings I think the upgrades will happen quicker than you think, they know HV is on the way up and they have to do something about it. It won't be complete this season but it's isn't going to take a decade either.
    I'm pretty sure I know who you are as well...doesn't matter.

    Nuttings are 5 years minimum with MAJOR investments that they are not willing to do, to match what's going on at HV and Wisp in the snow making dept. It's simple logistics, the amount of equipment that needs upgraded is simply too large. Dupres didn't keep up with the changes for years when they should have. The fact that they are even poking around in Laurel Mountain and considering spending the $6.5M when they need to concentrate on the massive upgrade to snow making at home is ridiculous. Add to that the fact that the Western is now what? 10 years of empty promises? Yet millions in real estate was sold in Southwinde on the empty promise that it would be open? Problems, lots and lots of problems.

    Can of worms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    I'm pretty sure I know who you are as well...doesn't matter.

    Nuttings are 5 years minimum with MAJOR investments that they are not willing to do, to match what's going on at HV and Wisp in the snow making dept. It's simple logistics, the amount of equipment that needs upgraded is simply too large. Dupres didn't keep up with the changes for years when they should have. The fact that they are even poking around in Laurel Mountain and considering spending the $6.5M when they need to concentrate on the massive upgrade to snow making at home is ridiculous. Add to that the fact that the Western is now what? 10 years of empty promises? Yet millions in real estate was sold in Southwinde on the empty promise that it would be open? Problems, lots and lots of problems.

    Can of worms.
    The LM thing is part of the Western expansion from my understanding. If, and I know it's a big IF, the expansion goes off, the game will have changed considerably. The lack of upgrades to the snowmaking over the years is certainly costing them now though, you're right about that.

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    The $7M they spent on the new Skeet Shooting lodge and course would have gone a long way toward improving the snowmaking system. Amenities is the new game now and that's where the capital is going. Skiing, biking, etc. have become secondary to those types of features as they strive to become the new Nemacolin.

  156. #156
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    Well since this thread has taken a turn towards an attack on my skiing creditials. I've nothing more to add. I ski at Springs a few times a year, other places weekly and a few trips. Either way, I prefer cycling... which is why I'm on this forum, which is why I posted here... lol

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    Hi I haven't been online here for a while,but someone was pointing out about those sweet pics under the lift line,with wooden booter and all that.Those were part of the course that the pro's rode for the contest they had,the year the new trails were done.I wasn't there to watch them ride, you tube had some footage,though at one time.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzblue242
    The $7M they spent on the new Skeet Shooting lodge and course would have gone a long way toward improving the snowmaking system. Amenities is the new game now and that's where the capital is going. Skiing, biking, etc. have become secondary to those types of features as they strive to become the new Nemacolin.
    IMO, 7S needs to develop their own niche. They are trying to be the next Nemacolin, which will never happen, the two resorts are apples and oranges.

    To JRalz...the Western won't change the game much at all. A) it's been more than 10 years they've been promising and not delivering, I'd be willing to bet we're still having this conversation in 5, maybe 10 more years. B) If it were to ever happen, they will have one hell of a time holding snow on it due to it's exposure without massive snow making. If you think the natural areas on the North Face have a tough time holding snow, wait until you see the Western. The fact that Dupres cleared every tree off of it years ago doesn't help the situation. There's no shade at all to help the cause. It's a huge, South facing bowl. It's not going to be real impressive unless you ski it right after a huge dump...which is what? Once? Twice a year if you are lucky?

    Operating a successful LM might change the game, but the way they half ass things at 7S...I don't expect a real successful operation in the long run. It will be just like last time they tried this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Rass Goat
    IMO, 7S needs to develop their own niche. They are trying to be the next Nemacolin, which will never happen, the two resorts are apples and oranges.
    I agree 100%, but what do we know? The new mantra is fewer with more money is better than more with less money, and you need luxury amenities for those fewer big spenders.

    Anywho, let's hope that the bike park continues to be part of the big picture, whatever the future may hold.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzblue242

    Anywho, let's hope that the bike park continues to be part of the big picture, whatever the future may hold.
    Ditto. Competition is good.
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    From the forums over at RideMonkey, looks like Frankenstein is substantially complete and there's a new launch pad into Showtime. Looks pretty cool. Finally making some progress? Let's hope so. I'd head up this weekend, but had already planned to check out Timberline.

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    Let us know.

    I was at Wisp Sunday, and saw some (short) segments of new trail that had just been put in. IIRC it was by Monkey Shine.
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    Frankenstien was complete enough to ride when i was up there 2 weeks ago. Its very rocky and technical. Alot of steep parts and it eventually connects into the lower half of lower ec1 (the part with the steep short downhill and rock sections before showtime) There were a couple tree crossings and a log stack ramp thing. There are also a couple split sections. Also there was a new wooden launch pad step down coming off of 007 into showtime. It is really tall and you need alot of speed or else its almost a straight fall. It gives you good speed though and is fun.

  164. #164
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    frankenstein is open for real now. i was there this weekend. its the best trail on the mountain. it seems like things might be slowly and painfully turning around.

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    Awesome. Anyone get pics or video?

    I may have to head back to try it out.
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    You guys are killing me..... I am just waiting on the Fox rear shock.



    looking like I am going to have the shock soon and will be heading up to 7-Springs Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, I plan on taking a camera (my original expensive passion) and hopefully coaxing the park staff to do a couple runs for some pictures

    I am a tall guy at 6'2" and the only negative about 7 Springs is that anyone around 6 foot may be SOL for a rental bike

    Ray



    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Awesome. Anyone get pics or video?

    I may have to head back to try it out.

  167. #167
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    the whole rental fleet is beat. i saw a bunch of rentals rocking dart 3 forks. seriously...

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    Looking good!

    As I posted earlier, I am also 6'2, renting an ill fitting bike from 7 Springs is the whole reason I purchased my Demo. It just wasn't fun trying to ride a small around that kept falling apart in my hands.
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    I think they rent XC type bikes as well, all the DH bikes where Stinky somethings with big heavy weight forks (Marzocchi 66's I think).... just under sprung for my big boned frame


    Quote Originally Posted by cdburch
    the whole rental fleet is beat. i saw a bunch of rentals rocking dart 3 forks. seriously...

  170. #170
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    Nice avatar, maybe they will incorporate the DH trails with the sporting clays as some point

    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Looking good!

    As I posted earlier, I am also 6'2, renting an ill fitting bike from 7 Springs is the whole reason I purchased my Demo. It just wasn't fun trying to ride a small around that kept falling apart in my hands.

  171. #171
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    Springs update, 8/16.

    Trails: kind of beat up, getting a bit eroded and rocky/loose.

    OO7 is still fun as hell to ride.

    The beginner trail is a lot of fun to ride when you don't pedal at all. It would be a cool trail to have a chainless race on.

    Frankenstein is alright, a couple of rocky and/or steep sections make for a change from most of the other trails. A couple of the rocky sections seemed a bit...contrived. It's nice to have another route/option, but it doesn't drastically improve the trail network, or make the lift ticket a significantly greater value.

    Experience: It was wine festival weekend (or whatever) so there were crowds of people milling about the base area sipping wine, creating an atmosphere not unlike their Autumnfest weekends. Seemingly not a big deal, most of the day there weren't many people taking scenic chairlift rides so it didn't really impact the lift line. Until later in the afternoon when the inebriates were drunk enough to brave the chairlift and our lift rides were interrupted with 15 stoppages each because these wine connoisseurs apparently do not know how to perform the basic human motions of sitting, standing and walking to get on and off the lift.

    And now for the Bikers are Second Class Citizens @ 7 Springs story of the week...

    Two buddies and I walked our bikes up the walk next to the lift to get lunch at the kebab stand. We sat at a table to eat, with our bikes resting up against a nearby stone wall...not in the way, the foot traffic in the area was sparse. The 7 Springs Head Security guy comes up to us and says:

    "Hey guys, having the bikes here is a ticketable offense. You can finish eating, but then take the bikes out of here."

    OK. Let me get this straight. We are paying patrons of the resort's bike park. We just purchased sh1tty, overpriced kebabs from a 7 Springs vendor. Not to mention, we have been paying customers several other times this summer (and last), and have/had plans to return again this season (and next).

    At the point of ticket purchase this morning nothing was mentioned regarding bikes not being permitted in certain areas. There are no signs that say "no bikes beyond this point" (only ones stating "walk bikes in this area"). We walked directly past at least 4 or 5 Seven Springs security/staffers, and within eyeshot of a dozen more, and nobody said a word. And we are literally a couple dozen yards from the lift we've been riding all day.

    And the most tactful, courteous approach you can think of is to come at us with "this is a ticketable offense"? As if we're a bunch of hoodlums loitering among the high-class clientele, careening through the crowds on our bikes, drinking 40s and pissing on the flower beds...and not actual (repeat) paying customers sitting quietly eating lunch, obviously ignorant of the apparently ever-changing and capricious rules that govern patron conduct at 7 Springs.

    And as if you're being a nice guy, letting us get away with our transgressions 'just this once', and we should be thankful that you let us stay to finish our POS lunch.

    Riiiiiiiiight.

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    I was never happy with the atmosphere there. It always seemed as if biking were just an afterthought.
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  173. #173
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    "Ticketable"? What does that mean (coming from a ski resort security guard)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyDean
    "Ticketable"? What does that mean (coming from a ski resort security guard)?
    Nothing was explained. My quote of the Head Security guy (that's what his badge said) is basically what he stated, he explain any further. We assumed he meant he could give us a ticket for having our bikes in the area we were eating lunch. From what I've gathered, 7 Springs itself is a "borough" and they have their own police department. I guess the security staff can issue tickets, etc. They sure as hell aren't trained in customer service.

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    Probably equivalent to a mall cop giving a parking ticket.

    I would have asked him where they have the "no leaning" or "no bikes" signs posted, then proceeded to show him a State Cop ID and ask if he could clarify it further, or ask to speak to his supervisors.
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  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Probably equivalent to a mall cop giving a parking ticket.

    I would have asked him where they have the "no leaning" or "no bikes" signs posted, then proceeded to show him a State Cop ID and ask if he could clarify it further, or ask to speak to his supervisors.
    That was the first thing that I asked him: "I didn't see any signs that said that we can't sit here"


    Another thing to consider is that we paid 30 bucks for a lift ticket and the wanna-be yuppies paid 25 for their all day "drinking pass". It killed me to see some of these people acting so high and mighty in their jean shorts and K-Swiss sneakers giving us the eye like we were some kind of freaks from another world.

    It was still a fun day!!!

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    yuppies and security

    i was one of those so called yuppies and then i rode. just so you guys know this subject was hashed out last year. we had same problem. apparently seven springs has no control over the liqour conttrol board they come in and do their thing and bring their own security. yes he could have been a lot nicer.the workers had a hard time getting from point a to b. but it was a lot easier to move this year than last. once you calmed down and asked things nicer they actually helped and the bike shop held bikes. things were a little easier this year.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    ...giving us the eye like we were some kind of freaks from another world.
    No offense, but when you put on crazy looking body armer, googles, gloves, full face helmet so you can rip down a mountain loaded with jumps and rocks on a several thousand dollar 40 pound bicycle you should expect to get a few strange looks

    As for rude security guards, that one is way to wide spread.... It really blows my mind how many businesses dont pay or train there security staff enough even though that guard may be the first impression of the place! just seems so stupid, how can a business not see this???

    I am so happy to have something I love doing and its only $30 a day, it cost me more to park my car and grab a double espresso in downtown Pittsburgh (and that is just to work )

  179. #179
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    Ray,

    From a conversation we had a while ago, I'm lead to believe you like the same type of riding I do, as opposed to the jump line at 7 springs. I'm not sure how far it is for you, but Wisp is very close to us in western pa and much much better IMO(both riding and treatment). I suggest you check it out!!

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    Ray,

    From a conversation we had a while ago, I'm lead to believe you like the same type of riding I do, as opposed to the jump line at 7 springs. I'm not sure how far it is for you, but Wisp is very close to us in western pa and much much better IMO(both riding and treatment). I suggest you check it out!!
    What he said. I'll probably head back to 7S someday, but I would like to wait until things improve. Wisp suits my riding style more anyway. love the fast technical lines @ Wisp. I like some jumps, but am not real big on the huge tabletops jumps @ 7S. Granted, that is probably because I didn't trust jumping on a rental bike that had 50-60% sag. Haha.

    My $0.02.
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  181. #181
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    I have been to Wisp once and really liked it, I am very new to DH and dont what to be the guy that blames he bike but after riding the day on my Prophet I felt like I had been kicked around pretty good.

    I just finished building up a bike better suited to lift days and am very exited to go back, but at the same time I am getting a little better at the jumps so really want to try it at 7 Springs.

    Tuff living so close to 2 good places to ride

    Trying hard to schedule a couple days in a row to head down to Snow Shoe



    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    Ray,

    From a conversation we had a while ago, I'm lead to believe you like the same type of riding I do, as opposed to the jump line at 7 springs. I'm not sure how far it is for you, but Wisp is very close to us in western pa and much much better IMO(both riding and treatment). I suggest you check it out!!

  182. #182
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    I'm heading back to Wisp on the 29th. I really want to hit Snowshoe and Diablo sometime. IIRC, Diablo is a little over 3 hours from me, Snowshoe is something like 6? Wisp is only 2 hours, so it is more than adequate for the moment.
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  183. #183
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    7 Springs is a small sip, Diablo is the big thirsty gulp. Made a Diablo trip a few weeks ago and am heading there again next week. It's 4 hrs. from Baltimore but worth the trip. Except for the slow lift, Wisp wins hands down over 7 Springs. I still have a bad taste from 7 Springs after going there on winefest weekend last year and haven't been back since. I'd rather keep my lift ticket money in Maryland.

  184. #184

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    Wisp is dope,but I ain't letting 7springs get no love.Check the website www.7springs.com. There's a Happy Dirt Hour this Friday August 28.Does me no good.I'm shooting to head up Thursday morning.Keep em krankin.

  185. #185
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    Sorry it took so long, I just have not been able bring myself to stop riding and haul the camera down the trail.

    A very small section of Frankenstein.





    We didn't shoot anything on the newest section... ladder bridges, drops and what looks like an even more hairy rock section.... and I admit that the photos we did get dont do it justice.... makes it look flat and not as steep as it really is

    and yours truly coming down a part of lower EC1 (I think)


    random other stuff and a crash sequence here under "new stuff"
    The SB Image

    Ray

    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Awesome. Anyone get pics or video?

    I may have to head back to try it out.

  186. #186
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    Thanks man, looks great! I just did Wisp yesterday and have plans to head to 7S this Friday to check out the new stuff!

    Any idea if they are running the lift on fridays?
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  187. #187
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    They had the lifts on last Friday, but I dont know if it was just because it was there Friday happy hour (last one was the 29th)

    Looks like I am going up Friday as well, hope both ladder bridges on Franken are open (I work weekends so my season is coming to an end fast)

    I am trying to get a weekend off to go to Wisp, we where there on a weekday and pretty much alone so I didnt get to see anyone hit the wilder stuff like that big wooden drop to rock on top or the insane road gap (way out of my league)


    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    Thanks man, looks great! I just did Wisp yesterday and have plans to head to 7S this Friday to check out the new stuff!

    Any idea if they are running the lift on fridays?

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee

    I am trying to get a weekend off to go to Wisp, we where there on a weekday and pretty much alone so I didnt get to see anyone hit the wilder stuff like that big wooden drop to rock on top or the insane road gap (way out of my league)
    I've been there for probably 4-5 weekend days this year so far and still have not seen anyone hit those things. I am very close to convincing myself to hit that wooden diving board at the top. Thats my goal for the year!

    That road gap is insane, it almost seems like you have to get it perfect or you'll end up in a lot of pain. Too slow and you'll land on the road in a painful drop to flat. Too fast and you'll fling yourself into trees. I'd love to see someone try it.

  189. #189
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    The drop seems almost within the realm of possibility but every part of the road gap seems insane.....even if you nail the jump and make it through the trees the landing is super steep and made of rock and gravel... I dont think I could ride down the landing with any speed let alone going mach 4 after that jump!

    Next year I am going to make time to see a race, I think it would be a blast to see familiar trails run at real race speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    I've been there for probably 4-5 weekend days this year so far and still have not seen anyone hit those things. I am very close to convincing myself to hit that wooden diving board at the top. Thats my goal for the year!

    That road gap is insane, it almost seems like you have to get it perfect or you'll end up in a lot of pain. Too slow and you'll land on the road in a painful drop to flat. Too fast and you'll fling yourself into trees. I'd love to see someone try it.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    I've been there for probably 4-5 weekend days this year so far and still have not seen anyone hit those things. I am very close to convincing myself to hit that wooden diving board at the top. Thats my goal for the year!

    That road gap is insane, it almost seems like you have to get it perfect or you'll end up in a lot of pain. Too slow and you'll land on the road in a painful drop to flat. Too fast and you'll fling yourself into trees. I'd love to see someone try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee
    The drop seems almost within the realm of possibility but every part of the road gap seems insane.....even if you nail the jump and make it through the trees the landing is super steep and made of rock and gravel... I dont think I could ride down the landing with any speed let alone going mach 4 after that jump!

    Next year I am going to make time to see a race, I think it would be a blast to see familiar trails run at real race speed.
    The wooden ladder drop isn't that bad-once you've hit it. The rock serves as a decent transition for the landing.

    The only bad thing about the road gap (besides the rock infested sketchy landing) is the immediate left that has to be made upon landing. They don't really maintain the landing so there are weeds/grass that is a few feet tall obstructing the landing.

    Next time I go I'll get video of my sorry a$$ hitting the road gap. If my 270lbs can clear it, I imagine you guys will have no problem!

    Here is a vid of my first time @ Wisp:



    This was before I had the suspension set for my weight. I was running close to 50% sag in this vid. The bike felt a little "mushy". Haha.

    Ray Lee, maybe we can meet up, you seem to know 7S rather well, maybe you could show us Frankenstein!
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  191. #191
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    Nice video.... teh drop looks so much smaller with you doing it vs. me standing at the top

    I would like to meet up with you, riding behind better riders for a few runs would really help me out.... both myself and my buddy started a few months ago.

    Ray

    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    The wooden ladder drop isn't that bad-once you've hit it. The rock serves as a decent transition for the landing.

    The only bad thing about the road gap (besides the rock infested sketchy landing) is the immediate left that has to be made upon landing. They don't really maintain the landing so there are weeds/grass that is a few feet tall obstructing the landing.

    Next time I go I'll get video of my sorry a$$ hitting the road gap. If my 270lbs can clear it, I imagine you guys will have no problem!

    Here is a vid of my first time @ Wisp:



    This was before I had the suspension set for my weight. I was running close to 50% sag in this vid. The bike felt a little "mushy". Haha.

    Ray Lee, maybe we can meet up, you seem to know 7S rather well, maybe you could show us Frankenstein!

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee
    Nice video.... teh drop looks so much smaller with you doing it vs. me standing at the top

    I would like to meet up with you, riding behind better riders for a few runs would really help me out.... both myself and my buddy started a few months ago.

    Ray
    It really isn't challenging at all. The rock drop that is appx 50' further down the trail is a much harder landing even though it looks (and is) much smaller.

    I am certainly no Pro when it comes to Freeriding. I just started this year. I rode one of my Mavericks @ 7S on closing day last year but my poor bike took such a beating and was so ill suited for downhilling that I don't even count it. Plus the fact that I was riding on 2 hours of sleep meant that I was coasting more than anything else. Haha.

    But still, riding in a group allows for evaulation of different lines and decreases the learning curve. Plus it allows for more photo ops, and I just picked up a slow motion video camera that really highlights the suspension action on Mt bikes.
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  193. #193
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    The good news is it looks like I am going Friday, the bad news is you just killed my buzz.... I was thrilled that I started hitting the ladder drop from Super Connector (less than half the size of the drop at Wisp)

    Hopefully I will see you there Friday, I am the old dude on the black bike



    Quote Originally Posted by Datalogger
    It really isn't challenging at all. The rock drop that is appx 50' further down the trail is a much harder landing even though it looks (and is) much smaller.

    I am certainly no Pro when it comes to Freeriding. I just started this year. I rode one of my Mavericks @ 7S on closing day last year but my poor bike took such a beating and was so ill suited for downhilling that I don't even count it. Plus the fact that I was riding on 2 hours of sleep meant that I was coasting more than anything else. Haha.

    But still, riding in a group allows for evaulation of different lines and decreases the learning curve. Plus it allows for more photo ops, and I just picked up a slow motion video camera that really highlights the suspension action on Mt bikes.

  194. #194
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    Cool, I'm sure I'll see you there. My buddy and I should be there before 1PM in his black Scion. (A little boxy looking thing.)

    I'm a bigger guy and have a mohawk, should help you pick me out if I'm not wearing a helmet or hat. Lol. I'll be on my red/silver demo with red wheels.

    -Josh
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  195. #195
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    Rode 7S yesterday (first time this summer) - Decent number of riders on the trail and perfect weather for riding. I have to say that some of the trails cut last year are getting fairly clapped out, especially the berms. However, rode Frankenstein a bunch of times and it is a great trail. A little bit of everything - rocks, bridges, drops, etc. Can't wait for my next trip!

  196. #196
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    Well, I managed to make it to 7 Springs last Friday. I had an absolute blast... Until I managed to eat $hit and end my day early. It is pretty rare for me to wreck (unless I'm goofing off-it's been years). But I managed to wash the front wheel out as I was concentrating on the berm ahead and (apparently) did not notice the plethora of loose rocks sitting on the trail. Ooops! This was my first trip to 7 Springs on my Demo, and I was amazed at how much faster i was able to go with a bike that was set up for me! Well, faster until I found myself wiping out and bouncing my elbows and knees off the rocks! Haha. Major props to whoever it was on 7 Springs staff that cleaned me up. I had planned to continued riding, but I was informed I had probably given myself a mild concussion when my 270+ pounds came crashing down. Since I had a 2.5 hour drive home, I packed up and headed home.

    I managed to sample Frankenstein which was nearly 100% completed. It is by far the most technical trail on the mountain, but is still rideable by most.

    I made a short compilation of some (not all) segments of Frankenstein. (My day ended before I could finish.)



    Here is a slo-mo vid of the cool little high speed double they have. (Taken 1 minute before I ate $hit.)



    And the cool little rock you can hit as a jump (in slo-mo again.)



    Different angle:

    Here are some other miscellaneous videos from 7 Springs:

    http://www.vimeo.com/user2032654/videos/sort:date


    Here are some pretty sweet pics of the mild carnage inflicted upon my body, and some pics of the part of Frankenstein the crew was working on, and which SHOULD be open by now:
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  197. #197
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    Wish I could have made it, we went up Wed and planned on Friday as well but managed to fling myself over the bars on the very last steep section at the end of EC1 and Frankenstein.... took a rock to the back on my hip bone and I am still walking like a 80 year old

    Dig the slow motion stuff, its real cool to see the suspension work, I always liked the little rock in Helens woods... not real high but you fly farther than you would think, and Helens woods is the only place you get insanely great traction.

    I work every weekend so I am off to Wisp Friday

    Ray

  198. #198
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    I was looking for you, figured something came up. Not a big deal.

    The dirt in Helens woods tends not to dry as fast, definitely good for traction! I would love to see them add some more lines through there.
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  199. #199
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    Looks like 7Springs claimed many victims this past week. That little hairpin berm when you come out of the woods at the bottom of EC1 is too damn small. I came in hot, plowed it, went over the bars, and into the rocks. My left side is a nice shade of purple.

    Frankenstein was cool, esp. the bridge sections. My only complaint is I would have liked to have seen some of the rockier/technical sections on some of the steeper parts of the trail, vs. on the flats at the top. Speed is your friend in that [email protected]#t.

  200. #200
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    Thats where I I went down... got some good air launching the berm but unfortunately I did it without a bike and back flopped into the open field..... probably a good show for all the people at the Alpine slide lift.

    The guys that work there where saying the back side is much steeper and more rocky, maybe we will see a few more rocky trails someday.

    some rocky trails like Snowshoes basin side along with some more man made features and it would really have a great verity of terrain ... I think would take a good verity with fewer trails over more of the same type like the basin side of Snowshoe.


    Quote Originally Posted by brainbckt
    Looks like 7Springs claimed many victims this past week. That little hairpin berm when you come out of the woods at the bottom of EC1 is too damn small. I came in hot, plowed it, went over the bars, and into the rocks. My left side is a nice shade of purple.

    Frankenstein was cool, esp. the bridge sections. My only complaint is I would have liked to have seen some of the rockier/technical sections on some of the steeper parts of the trail, vs. on the flats at the top. Speed is your friend in that [email protected]#t.

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