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  1. #1
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    Shop suggestions - Eugene area

    Been out of the hobby for too long. Time to replace my 1988 Giant full rigid and get back in shape. Not sure on a bike yet, but I do want a new one from a local shop. Any recommendations, shops to avoid, etc...? I know of Collin's, Hutch's, and Paul's, but don't really know anything about any of them. I bought my Giant from Hutch's 2 decades ago - crap, am I old enough to say that?

    Currently the Santa Cruz Heckler is at the top of my list, but I'm open for suggestions. All mountain seems to suit my riding desires the best, like to bomb the downhills, but need the exercise from cross country. I've been riding dirt bikes for the past 15 years, but need more exercise. I'm 6'4", 275 currently (shooting for 225). Willing to spend up to $3,000.

  2. #2
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    I don't have a bike shop I love in Eugene. I think they are all ok, but... You might try using the Oregon forum to see if anyone has any they'd prefer. It might depend on the type of bike you want....

  3. #3
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    This is the Oregon forum???

  4. #4
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    Oh, sorry. Anyway, since no one else is chipping in- go shop at all of them and see what they have. I built my bike up with help from craigslist and help from CAT.

  5. #5
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    Collins, Paul's, and Hutch's are the 3 big shops, but don't forget about Wheel Works, Life Cycles, and Revolution Cycles. All the shops have some employees who know alot about MTB, and other employees who are clueless.

    If you go to Paul's, go to the 5th Street location, (corner of 5th and Charnelton) and ask for Rod.
    If you go to Wheel Works (11th and Lawrence), go weekdays after 5pm, and ask for Brock.
    If you go to Life Cycles (17th and Pearl) ask for Geoff, or Gilad.
    I love mankind - it's people I can't stand. ~Charles M. Schulz

  6. #6
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    Since you are large you need to pay attention to the leverage ratio on the bike if you go full squish. The Heckler will be fine for you. I rode what, three of them over the years (from mid 1998 to late 2005). No longer, but still... They are a predictable single pivot that is tough. They bob like hell regardless what shock is on it and what a sales person says though. They are cheap-ish and can take all sorts of abuse. It's well below 2.8 leverage ratio for the rear suspension which is where things tend to get tricky for clydesdales (which you are). The new Heckler is something like 2.4 (150mm travel with a 63mm stroke). Consider going coil on whatever you get since you are an all mountain guy. Air shocks can work, but can also be problematic for big cats. You will also probably notice not many folks will know how to help a big guy set up their bikes (SC is one few companies whoes suspension charts go past 225, they go to 240). Good luck with that. Just because some 5'10 @ 187 lb guy rides well and can build a wheel does not mean he knows shite about the reality of what does...and does not last/work well for a big guy. The laws of physics dictate it's not a 1:1 ratio when considering momentum and stored/potential energy.

    Good luck.

    Brock...

    PS: it's after 3:30 usually.
    Last edited by ImaKlyde; 04-02-2008 at 06:36 AM.
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

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  7. #7
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    My vote goes to Brock @ Wheel Works after 3:30pm. He abides!

    --Sparty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  8. #8
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    Good points on the clydes perspective. I ought to pick your brain for my next bike.

    Funny story along those lines. I won't name the shop in Eugene where this occurred because eventually this guy moved on and I expereinced good service. But I will say that the bike in question was a Cannondale and I was concerend over a deep gouge in the weld material at the bottom bracket. So I take it in to the shop where I purchased the dang thing and wanted it checked out and I get a lot of attitude from this guy who was much smaller than me (I'm 6'1" 220#) and he literally said to me, "I ride a lot harder than you . . . " he went on to tell me he races and jumps his Cannondale all the time and has never had a problem, blah, blah, blah.

    I was stammered and didn't think of a good witty response until I was long gone. There were so many things wrong with what he was saying to a customer, I'm surprised I continued doing business with them long enough to eventually experience good service.

  9. #9
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    Go with Brock. He's very helpfull and doesn't mind the occasional pat on the arse for a job well done.

    Caz
    I am a Mountain Biker therefore I am late

  10. #10
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    So, Brock, if I end up getting a Heckler, can I still lean on you for setup advice - even though your shop doesn't deal them??

    I'm still leaning toward that bike, but I will likely buy a "complete" one from SC since they are likely cheaper that way. I need to discuss my options with Paul's.

  11. #11
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    I have a few answers to that: 1. Sure, probably. I like folks liking to ride and enjoying one of my favorite things: mountain bikes! 2. Do I want to increase sales at a bike shop that does not help me...ever? 3. Stop by some day or show for a ride. I'm not a fan of sight un-seen stuff if you know what I mean. 4. I *really* want folks to be happy with their bike. Not happy with the brand or the color or happy they own a bike that has an add in Bike magazine or "happy" the way other happy owners say they feel the first two weeks after they buy a bike, but "happy" with it after 1k miles...after the derailuer ripped off and a pedal broke...after life happens, you know?

    ****opinion and advertisement warning****
    The Turner RFX makes a Heckler crap itself.
    The Scott Ransom line $hits all over the Heckler (but the leverage ratio wont work for you at your current weight...fatty...me either by the way).
    The Ellsworth Moment makes the Heckler look like a WalMart Next bike (coming from a Turner rider...).
    ****Advertisement over, opinion continues****
    The Giant Reign craps bigger than the Hekler.
    The Rocky Mountain Slayer rips the lungs out of the Heckler.

    Brock...
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  12. #12
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    Not exactly in Eugene, but I would call it still in the area, is Full Cycles in Corvallis. Great shop with great prices. Their main brand is Yeti but they can get other custom brands too. The Yeti 575 is a good option for your needs I think. That said, also take a close look at BMC, they make some burly XC full sussers.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the advise Brock. What is your opinion on single pivot versus all the linkages? I like the idea of low maintenance with the single pivot.

    I just checked out the Turner and Ellsworth online - I'd like to buy a complete bike, even though I have the ability - I don't have the time to assemble one. And the Ellsworth looks to be a bit out of my price range.

  14. #14
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    Turner, Ellsworth, Ventana, and Yeti (amongst others) make a quality enough bike (good design, good implementation, good construction, good materials, etc) that I would be comfortable enough to buy a used bike of a year or two vintage...personally. Just a thought. I'd sit down over a cup of coffee with you to discuss what are good options and what specific ones on the market are good for you.

    SinglePivot versus linkage? Chocolate or Vanilla? Not really, but reading things on the 'net it sort of seems so. Shock technology has come so far that almost any suspension design is viable. I mean even the URT is still around and they were freakin' horrible 14 years ago.

    I'm not a good enough rider to destinguish the vertues/penalties of Horst link versus non-horst four bar. Done well (key: well...) they can both produce a nice riding bike. There is a lot of pissing going on about which is better. Much of it marketing and subjective testing. Some of it imperical or so the tester says!

    Sinlge pivot? They bob quite a lot. Even with a good platform shock (DHX coil or Rocco) they bob (pedal induced suspension movement/that "boing" feeling while riding along). Manufacturers say they don't, but every one I've ridden does (8 or 9 of them). That does not mean they suck, but it's a part of what they do. Hell, my RFX bobs a little, just a little. I run very little "pro-pedal" on the shock though. I can live with a little but if I can feel it I don't want that bike.

    I think single pivots can make great bikes for a lot of riders. I also think that the inherent weaknesses of the design and shocks gets made more readily noticeable when larger riders are on them since we begin our "set-up" on the far reaches of the equipments abilities typically (spring rate, air volume/pressure, etc). Example: the vpp bikes out there. I rode an Intense 6.6, stock. It felt dead and bobed a bit even though the design is solid/makes sense (and every bit of literature says they don't) and implemented very well by Intense (great company btw). It put me off of the bike...I moved on. I've since ridden a 6.6 owned by another clyde who put another $800 into the bike by putting a custom built/valved/tuned coil shock on it and it was nice enough I wouldn't mind if you bought my RFX and I built up one like he has! Just kidding, sort of. My impression of the Nomad was similar when the one I was on had an air shock and I had to run max pressure to get decent sag. The DHX air sucks for clydes, especially if the leverage ratio is over about 2.3 or so which most bikes in this genre are.

    Single Pivots do not necesarrily require less maintenance. There are less places to lube or make sure are tight, but not really doing less to them when you need to do "it" whatever it is on that bike. Example: I grease the pivots on my squish about once a month and it takes about two minutes. I do it that much because I'm insanely overly conscious about stuff. I obsess basically.

    I like to tinker on bikes so "maintenance" isn't a concern for me. The quality of the suspension implementation, quality of the materials, quality of the build and history of the brand standing behind their product is. Anyway, I'm rambling.

    Brock...
    Last edited by ImaKlyde; 04-03-2008 at 08:57 AM.
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  15. #15
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    I'm a 155# hardtailer and have no input here but.....I've learned more about full squishies this morning than I could of gotten from buying every dirt mag at the airport magazine store on every one of my flights over the last 20 years (that's the only place I buy mags). But that goes without say that I skip over the articals about suspension and linkage pee-pee match ups.

    Anyway, sounds like Brock's the local goto guy on info for clydes on FS and if anybody wants to know anything about suspension tuning on HTSS, I'm quite knowledgable in that field: Too bouncy=less air and pinch flats=more air.

    Caz
    I am a Mountain Biker therefore I am late

  16. #16
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaKlyde

    ****opinion and advertisement warning****
    The Turner RFX makes a Heckler crap itself.
    The Scott Ransom line $hits all over the Heckler (but the leverage ratio wont work for you at your current weight...fatty...me either by the way).
    The Ellsworth Moment makes the Heckler look like a WalMart Next bike (coming from a Turner rider...).
    ****Advertisement over, opinion continues****
    The Giant Reign craps bigger than the Hekler.
    The Rocky Mountain Slayer rips the lungs out of the Heckler.

    Brock...
    How about something that rips the Heckler's head off and gives the head a noogie?
    Also, the streets are full of horizontal dropouts...

    BSNYC

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaKlyde
    Turner, Ellsworth, Ventana, and Yeti (amongst others) make a quality enough bike (good design, good implementation, good construction, good materials, etc) that I would be comfortable enough to buy a used bike of a year or two vintage...personally. Just a thought. I'd sit down over a cup of coffee with you to discuss what are good options and what specific ones on the market are good for you.

    SinglePivot versus linkage? Chocolate or Vanilla? Not really, but reading things on the 'net it sort of seems so. Shock technology has come so far that almost any suspension design is viable. I mean even the URT is still around and they were freakin' horrible 14 years ago.

    I'm not a good enough rider to destinguish the vertues/penalties of Horst link versus non-horst four bar. Done well (key: well...) they can both produce a nice riding bike. There is a lot of pissing going on about which is better. Much of it marketing and subjective testing. Some of it imperical or so the tester says!

    Sinlge pivot? They bob quite a lot. Even with a good platform shock (DHX coil or Rocco) they bob (pedal induced suspension movement/that "boing" feeling while riding along). Manufacturers say they don't, but every one I've ridden does (8 or 9 of them). That does not mean they suck, but it's a part of what they do. Hell, my RFX bobs a little, just a little. I run very little "pro-pedal" on the shock though. I can live with a little but if I can feel it I don't want that bike.

    I think single pivots can make great bikes for a lot of riders. I also think that the inherent weaknesses of the design and shocks gets made more readily noticeable when larger riders are on them since we begin our "set-up" on the far reaches of the equipments abilities typically (spring rate, air volume/pressure, etc). Example: the vpp bikes out there. I rode an Intense 6.6, stock. It felt dead and bobed a bit even though the design is solid/makes sense (and every bit of literature says they don't) and implemented very well by Intense (great company btw). It put me off of the bike...I moved on. I've since ridden a 6.6 owned by another clyde who put another $800 into the bike by putting a custom built/valved/tuned coil shock on it and it was nice enough I wouldn't mind if you bought my RFX and I built up one like he has! Just kidding, sort of. My impression of the Nomad was similar when the one I was on had an air shock and I had to run max pressure to get decent sag. The DHX air sucks for clydes, especially if the leverage ratio is over about 2.3 or so which most bikes in this genre are.

    Single Pivots do not necesarrily require less maintenance. There are less places to lube or make sure are tight, but not really doing less to them when you need to do "it" whatever it is on that bike. Example: I grease the pivots on my squish about once a month and it takes about two minutes. I do it that much because I'm insanely overly conscious about stuff. I obsess basically.

    I like to tinker on bikes so "maintenance" isn't a concern for me. The quality of the suspension implementation, quality of the materials, quality of the build and history of the brand standing behind their product is. Anyway, I'm rambling.

    Brock...
    I don't think that "bob" should be your main concern when deciding what suspension system to buy. Geometry of the bike, quality of the suspension performance, low brake induced suspension reactions and, finally, acceptable pedalling performance for the intended usage is the order I would go by.

    Just my 2 cents.

  18. #18
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    yz 450 rider raises hand...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996cc
    Been out of the hobby for too long. Time to replace my 1988 Giant full rigid and get back in shape. Not sure on a bike yet, but I do want a new one from a local shop. Any recommendations, shops to avoid, etc...? I know of Collin's, Hutch's, and Paul's, but don't really know anything about any of them. I bought my Giant from Hutch's 2 decades ago - crap, am I old enough to say that?

    Currently the Santa Cruz Heckler is at the top of my list, but I'm open for suggestions. All mountain seems to suit my riding desires the best, like to bomb the downhills, but need the exercise from cross country. I've been riding dirt bikes for the past 15 years, but need more exercise. I'm 6'4", 275 currently (shooting for 225). Willing to spend up to $3,000.

    Clyde here...er - fully grown is a better description. I also have a mx background and mtb. experience dating back to the 80's. I mtb FR/DH/AM/XC (lol). I'm a mountain biker.

    IMHO you'll find that the Heckler is a good bike, but for you I think a Bullit is better. Truth is you're going to be rough on your bike via the mx mentality; a Heckler is tough, but with your mass and the descending speed you'll be able to attain a little more metal between your legs will be welcome. You can build a 'light enough' Bullit that will provide wide-ranging suspension set-up options and even if it isn't lighter than the Heckler, it'll seem like a toy compared to your dirt bike. And, the extra beefiness will help you shed those unwanted pizza slices while keeping your repair bills reasonable when you crash spectacularly.

    Having owned three Bullits myself you can set up the rear shock to pedal well. Well enough anyways. You ain't going to win any sprints but you won't on a Heckler either. Even if you're not planning to huck big the Bullit can be built into a very capable heavy duty AM bike, perfect for a mx guy looking for some fun & fitness who's about to realize that mechanized riding is as cool as motorized riding.

    Personally, I've found (after too many thousands spent experimenting) that a good AM steel hardtail is my best option for AM type stuff. I don't have to worry about sheet folding when I want to be aggressive. When I want to be really, really aggressive I have a heavier duty bike which is in fact the new generation Bullit (replaced my Scream). I toyed with the idea of buying a 2nd set of wheels and various other lighter bits to swap over for the AM type riding, but I just prefer a good steel hardtail for that. Which brings me to my next suggestion: if you're willing to consider a hardtail it might be the way to go also. Given that you're getting back into the game you're going to need to oil up those rusty skills. A lot of mx knowledge will transfer, but riding a hardtail for a year or two will really improve the learning curve and you'll have less gear issues to concern yourself with.

    just my $.02.

    most important thing is that your bike gets dirty and stays that way.
    "...his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyhippy
    Which brings me to my next suggestion: if you're willing to consider a hardtail it might be the way to go also. Given that you're getting back into the game you're going to need to oil up those rusty skills. A lot of mx knowledge will transfer, but riding a hardtail for a year or two will really improve the learning curve and you'll have less gear issues to concern yourself with.
    After riding the full Mckenzie River Trail on my 1988 (yes, eight-eight) full rigid Giant Iguana two summers ago, I vowed to never ride a rigid/hardtail again on anything more than paved roads. So it will be FS for me. If that changes later in life, so be it, but it needs to squish for now.

  20. #20
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    I also want to add some recent experiences in here. And I don't want to turn this into a LBS bash thread by any means, but after visiting both Hutch's & Collin's yesterday, I'm really disappointed in the lack of knowledge. After expressing my desire for an all mountain platform, I was directed to either XC or DH bikes. I will have to stick to the three guys mentioned above for some decent advise I guess. Thanks for all the thoughts guys.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by iRider
    quality of the suspension performance,
    Just my 2 cents.
    I consider "bob", "brake jack" (or brake squat in the case of my RFX), overall efficiency (since I, sadly, have to pedal), small bump compliance, spring curve, etc to all form the bike's quality of suspension performance. I simply answered a question of the OP. I also *hate* the amount of brake jack that many (all?) single pivot bikes have when unloading the forces a 260lb load is responsible for at high speeds. Talk about head angle adjustments...you should experience that...can get scary. I think we are preaching a similar sermon perhaps or just looking at different angles of the same statue probably, maybe, maybe not.

    As a fattAss (I'm 255, used to be 320) I/we tend to bring out or exacerbate traits/tendencies in bikes that to a more lightweight (pencil neck is my favorite pejoritive) would be imperceptible or non-issues due to the minuteness frankly.

    Head angle is easy to alter. BB height can be modified on a lot of bikes post-purchase. Wheelbase is a whole other story, but with different rakes on different forks it's "possible" if need be/wanted; it's not something I'd play with, but some folks think they need to so... Truthfully, most folks can not tell 68 from 66.5 head angle.

    Anywho, I think the OP can get a very nice bike in his price range and there are enough folks in the know around here to get him fully set-up and tricked out.

    Brock...
    Last edited by ImaKlyde; 04-03-2008 at 09:24 PM.
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996cc
    After riding the full Mckenzie River Trail on my 1988 (yes, eight-eight) full rigid Giant Iguana two summers ago, I vowed to never ride a rigid/hardtail again on anything more than paved roads. So it will be FS for me. If that changes later in life, so be it, but it needs to squish for now.
    Are we talking full up and down or just the one-way shuttle?

    It was after the complete out and back that punished me on a hardtail when I made that same vow,

    Did the shuttle and shorter out and backs on the old Bridgestone back in the day many many times. Suspension wasn't an option then. Hell, those old rigid steel bikes handle the twisty rocky terrain as well as anything if you know how to point 'em.

  23. #23
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    Just one way from above the lake down to Paradise campground. I hadn't been on the bike for years (but had been riding dirt bikes for years), just on the bottom side of the lake, I hit a small rock (didn't even see it with my forward looking dirt bike eyes), and the front wheel just STOPPED (was used to suspension soaking that stuff up), and I didn't. I was nice to get the endo out of the way 10 minutes into the ride . After that I settled in and was good the rest of the ride. However, I must confess with my clydesdale frame, I did have to walk most of the uphills from about the 1/2 way point. And to add to that, my buddy (on his $2,000 FS Gary Fisher) and me were not prepared for that length of a ride, and thought it would mostly be downhill. We blew through our camelbacks 1/2 through, and didn't have any food, except some chocolate covered blueberries he had along. I was very dehydrated and undernourished at the end of that day.

  24. #24
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    Well, a lot of folks having endured that experience would vow to never ride a mountain bike again. Good on ya for sticking with it!

    Whatever bike it takes to inspire getting out and riding is the best bike anyone can get.

  25. #25
    Making fat cool since '71
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    Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl
    Well, a lot of folks having endured that experience would vow to never ride a mountain bike again. Good on ya for sticking with it!

    Whatever bike it takes to inspire getting out and riding is the best bike anyone can get.
    ...exactly.

    Brock...

    PS: Except a Next.
    PPS: Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  26. #26
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    Yeah, I'd agree with that. Another buddy and I were tooling around on the local bike paths and were at Skinner Butte park when his Next crank decided to desinegrate on him. The pedals just spun without moving the sprockets??? That made for a long walk home.

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