More dumbing down of Bend trails?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    More dumbing down of Bend trails?

    Not sure if this has been covered on here already, but is there a good reason that the big root ball on lower Southfork was filled in? You know the one, maybe 75-100 yards after the river crossing, slight uphill lead in with a techy right hand turn. It used to be a fun techy piece of trail now its barely a bump in the trail.

    Was this a COTA/trail steward sanctioned change or someone just making it easy for them? Maybe it was to save the tree? I just want to understand...
    Why do you talk to me this way. When you know that I will kill you for this?

  2. #2
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    I don't think it was COTA sanctioned. https://www.facebook.com/bendtrails/...type=1&theater

    Few things irritate me as much as stuff like this. People who feel entitled to do things like this because it's "too hard" need to stick to golfing.

  3. #3
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    I brought it up on the facebook thread Lil' Stink posted, but the same trail dumbing happened on GS. Several sections completely filled with dirt and numerous ride-arounds built.

  4. #4
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    I am also tired of trails being dumbed down.
    However, I know who and why this section was fixed. There has always been roots exposed at that tight pinch between the trees. In the last year particularly, those roots have become more exposed risking the health of the trees attached to them. This year people were putting in a Nana line to the down hill side which was then sliding out towards the creek. Which was closed by the trail adopter to stop get around lines.
    The next step was likely to be someone cutting out those roots and killing the trees. The rocks were put in (properly I might add) to last long term and hopefully save the trees and stop somebody doing drastic irreversable damage.
    I feel confident saying that the person/s who did this has done more volunteer trail work and added more challenging features to the Central Oregon trails (and beyond) over the last 10+ years than all you internet whiners added up together. If only you had any idea.
    You can still clear all the roots heading down south fork as you always have by tire tapping the first one. Really the trail has hardly changed.
    Move on, quit whining and go ride yer bike.

  5. #5
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    Some of us ride up South Fork and appreciate such improvements. I am thankful to the volunteers who continue to make the trails top notch.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    Some of us ride up South Fork and appreciate such improvements. I am thankful to the volunteers who continue to make the trails top notch.
    I agree. I ride up SF 10 times for every one time I come down. I could have lived without the "improvement", obviously, but I, too, appreciate it.

  7. #7
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    I guess that's the problem with zippers.

  8. #8
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    I am also thankful for the improvements to SF and the volunteers that spend significant time making our trails awesome. I imagine the best way to ensure the trails are maintained in a manner that is acceptable to any given individual is to become involved in the trail maintenance/building process.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    I am also thankful for the improvements to SF and the volunteers that spend significant time making our trails awesome. I imagine the best way to ensure the trails are maintained in a manner that is acceptable to any given individual is to become involved in the trail maintenance/building process.
    ^^Fact^^

    EVERYONE has the ability to give two days/year to trail maintenence / building and therefore an opinion. Of course most forgo the first part yet still voice the second part. I've been pleased with the number of new folks coming out to get involved in the Eugene area. We've been working hard on education and knowledge for the masses. It seems to be working a bit.

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  10. #10
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    To paraphrase some famous, dead dude: Decisions are made by the people that show up.

    So show up.

    Personally, as my wife and I get older and time takes its toll in various ways, I've decided that my perfect world would be to leave tough features as-is AND offer well-designed ride around lines (see Holy Cross in Grand Junction as an excellent example, as well as various portions of Funner and Tiddly).

    It puts a big smile on my wife's face when she finishes a three hour ride and declares "that's the first time I unclipped today".
    Whining is not a strategy.

  11. #11
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    Note the roots are armored on the 1 side. Which leaves roots that you can challenge yourself on the other.

  12. #12
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    There is a huge difference between trail maintenance and trail alteration. In my view, trail maintenance is about going out and clearing trails and repairing features (i.e. downed trees, installing water diversions, and repair of berms and ruts). Everyone should do trail maintenance and no one should complain unless they are out there actually doing said maintenance.

    Trail alteration is a totally different animal. I'm talking about rerouting trails and removing, modifying, and installing obstacles, challenges, and features, especially when those actions change the previous character of the trail. Over the last several years this has become a major complaint for a lot of people, especially with IMBA's design standards becoming more and more prevalent. Its one thing to build an entirely new trail to IMBA specs, its wholly another to take an existing trail and completely regrade and reroute it to remove obstacles and reduce the grade. Soooo, when people see this they aren't complaining about maintenance, their complaining about alterations, and they have a legit point in many cases. Same goes for someone complaining about someone putting in a sketchy drop or jump in what was developed as an easy/moderate trail. What is the point of going to trail building sessions when its quite clear that the decision makers only know and appreciate one way of building and will never ever take the position of hey, thats an expert level trail, lets leave it alone.

    Bottom line to me: Its sad that we live in such an awesome state for riding and yet don't have a single (legal) trail that can match up with even a moderately difficult black diamond trail just a few hours north in Northern Washington and BC.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the clarification braaarp thats exactly what I was asking. Seems like there's a somewhat valid reason for that change. A preemptive alteration to avert a worse option. Sort of like cutting off the horn to save the rhino.

    Why these questions and conversations have to devolve into a "who does more trail work" pissing match is a mystery to me. Its as if questioning any work that has been done on the trails immediately brands someone as never picking up a shovel or rake. I'd love for someone to let me know how much work one needs to do before they are allowed to give an opinion on a trail feature and or change.
    Why do you talk to me this way. When you know that I will kill you for this?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryebread View Post
    Why these questions and conversations have to devolve into a "who does more trail work" pissing match is a mystery to me. Its as if questioning any work that has been done on the trails immediately brands someone as never picking up a shovel or rake. I'd love for someone to let me know how much work one needs to do before they are allowed to give an opinion on a trail feature and or change.
    You make valid points it the foregoing. But, I really didn't see much of a 'pissing match' going on here. Rather, I think folks just react differently to changes made to the dirt, and any critiques that folks make in forums like this. The way I see it, there isn't much I can say when I see a trail modification that I don't like because I don't do the trail maintenance, design and digging. I just know that if I wanted to have a voice, it would require that I do more than just provide donations to COTA.

    Personally, a trail modification here and there doesn't change how I feel when I am riding COD, GS, Funner, etc. It's all good fun regardless of the tech level, but that is coming from an XC guy. I am sure AM riders feel different, but then again Bend is all about XC dirt. Folks that want gnar, tech, structures, etc., need to look north to the PNW and beyond. I doubt that will change soon, if ever.

  15. #15
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    A root ball is something we should all get upset about

  16. #16
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    Always surprises me that Bend doesn't get on board with some more advanced moves like we have up North in WA. Lord knows there is plenty of lava rock to work with there.
    I assume that many here like the more difficult sections of COD including the "hard way" near the bottom. When we come down, we make a point of riding Voodoo, GS, and all the other rocky sections we can. Make a black diamond a "real" black diamond for a change. Do the Bendites know that out of towners laugh at the fact that Paul's is a black diamond trail? Really? "Bend" miles are just that. But, adding some challenge would be a good thing here and there.

  17. #17
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    I hope those that laugh stay at home. I prefer to ride the Bend buff XC dirt without the riffraff!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Always surprises me that Bend doesn't get on board with some more advanced moves like we have up North in WA. Lord knows there is plenty of lava rock to work with there.
    I assume that many here like the more difficult sections of COD including the "hard way" near the bottom. When we come down, we make a point of riding Voodoo, GS, and all the other rocky sections we can. Make a black diamond a "real" black diamond for a change. Do the Bendites know that out of towners laugh at the fact that Paul's is a black diamond trail? Really? "Bend" miles are just that. But, adding some challenge would be a good thing here and there.
    Bend is not Washington. And WA is definitely not bend. Apples and Oranges.

    Sure we would love the elevation here like you have access to up North. It's just not here. Up North they probably wish they had less rain...

    It's fairly flat here. We route trails through rocks whenever possible. We can ride all year around). Trail are close to town.

    Paul's trail is black because it's difficult to climb. Not for the decent. It's a classic trail that's been there a long time. It won't have ladder drops or crazy options on it any time soon, sorry. FS won't allow it anyway.

    Tyler's is a new trail. It heads through and over as much rock as possible. As does Funner. As do all the trails you mentioned and a several more. If we want more rock we can hit horse ridge, dry river, MRT. If we want more elevation we can hit the Ochocos. If we want more Gnar, we can hit Cline.

    COD will be getting a lot more techy soon. Re-route along the rock band will add a lot of challenge. Hope you like it. Sorry SpryIP

    We do the best with what we have.

    "Bend miles" should be in the dictionary btw. It's so true.

  19. #19
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    Bring on the COD 'techy'. The GS/COD loop is a staple.

  20. #20
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    ^^^ Agreed. Seems like in places, the trails down there are routed around natural features other than through them though. Paul's is a tough climb. In that crux spot between the two big rocks near the top. Always a challenge to clean it going up. But, pretty tame going down. Tyler's is a blast but not technical at all IMHO. Funner? Way easier with the new climbing re-route. Not that I'm complaining. But, true gnar in Phil's is very evident out there but not often chosen. Which is fine, I guess. Not that anyone wants miles of the top section of Lookout heading down mind you. That's a tough run.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Not that anyone wants miles of the top section of Lookout heading down mind you. That's a tough run.
    I do.

  22. #22
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    ^^^^ I would expect that from a nutball.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    ^^^ Agreed. Seems like in places, the trails down there are routed around natural features other than through them though. Paul's is a tough climb. In that crux spot between the two big rocks near the top. Always a challenge to clean it going up. But, pretty tame going down. Tyler's is a blast but not technical at all IMHO. Funner? Way easier with the new climbing re-route. Not that I'm complaining. But, true gnar in Phil's is very evident out there but not often chosen. Which is fine, I guess. Not that anyone wants miles of the top section of Lookout heading down mind you. That's a tough run.
    Upper Tyler's and Funner are definitely technical for Bend standards. Just note the next time you ride tylers or funner how many rock outcroppings the trail goes directly through.

    Not arguing about the technicality of our trails in relation to anywhere else - but responding to your "when will we get on board..." comment. We make a big effort to use rock, elevation, features as much as possible.

    But as with all things in Bend, the challenge often ends up being less about whether you can clean something and more about HOW FAST you clean it. Even green trails can be a challenge here. Just go faster.

  24. #24
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    "But as with all things in Bend, the challenge often ends up being less about whether you can clean something and more about HOW FAST you clean it. Even green trails can be a challenge here. Just go faster.[/QUOTE]

    No argument there at all. Boat on a plane. Get the speed up and you can just float across those the top of those sketchier sections. Speed along with "flow" or the perception of it seems to be the underlying issue with every time something gets "dumbed down" there as well as up here though. Would be interesting to see what the numbers are on the new and traditionally more difficult sections like Voodoo or lower GS as opposed to say, Kent's or Upper GS. While liking the tech sections there for sure, one big draw is the long miles of sweeping back and forth high speed sections. Bend is the only place I put the big ring back on the bike these days. And, that's a good thing.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Bend is the only place I put the big ring back on the bike these days. And, that's a good thing.
    This!!!!

    How can one not love a place where many of the "climbs" can be done in the big ring!
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  26. #26
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    bleak desert

    bleak desert twisty contrived trails that are as homogenous as bend's population. That town is overrun with too many tommy lee tattoos, ear guages(w no tribal affiliation) and oversweetened overhoppy hippy beer.
    Last edited by freebiker; 12-13-2014 at 08:13 PM.

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    It's worth considering that many of the trails in Bend were designed and built when a fully suspended bike had 2-3 inches MAX, and most rode either fully ridgid or with maybe 2-3 inches of travel up front with what by current standards would be a primitive fork, now a fairly common bike that is seen on Funner, T-Winks, Tylers, S-fork has 5 inches plus and is still not considered a full on down hill bike and its hard to argue that something that is a little techy on a fully ridgid bike (or with 2-3 inches) is just aline to rail with 5-6 inch All-Mtn bike.

    I am mostly an XC guy but do like the (few) more "techy" sections around Bend. I do like a trail that has something on it that I can't clean because it gives me something to shoot for and an appreciation of the skills of those who can clean it. I have noticed more "polishing" of trails in the Bend area in the last few years and the removal of mid trail rocks and simple obstacles to smooth out a trail that I do not like, this is mountain biking after all. Oh, and I do get out and do 10-12 trail work days/year but mostly non COTA aligned dead fall clearing. Unfortunately my days off and COTA's work days don't align very often.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutballchamp View Post
    I do.
    ditto

  29. #29
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    This post inspired a write up about trail work. Please read it and let me know what you think
    Lev?s Log: Confessions of a trail dumb downer. | Cog Wild Bicycle Tours & ShuttlesCog Wild Bicycle Tours & Shuttles

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    Lev?s Log: Confessions of a trail dumb downer. | Cog Wild Bicycle Tours & ShuttlesCog Wild Bicycle Tours & Shuttles

    Reviving a dead horse? Or adding fuel to a discussion that needs more beating?

  31. #31
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    Hmmm.... There's always going to be another perspective to a selected approach.
    Really, most folks who ride the same route often develop a 'relationship' to their favorite trail segments. This is a given. We all want to practice and work to clear a section on a particular ring/without dabbing/or over the hardest part, but natural processes, combined with increased usage (see Visit Bend), prohibit consistent challenges year in and year out.

    I thought the piece was well done. As COTA says: “The world is run by those who show up!”

    Cheers

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bend dirt View Post
    I thought the piece was well done. As COTA says: “The world is run by those who show up!”
    Around here we call thems as who are showing up and deciding the board members of the "shovel committees".

    Lev's post had a somewhat confrontational title but the body of his article is well-reasoned. I've only been building for a year and am already seeing the differences when a trail is built sustainably from the start and when it is not.

    I have a friend who used to say "Am I smart, or am I lazy?" about something else but with a similar point to it...

  33. #33
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    I know there are some opinions out there. Did I leave anything out? there must be someone who has a problem with the way trails are maintained in their area. have you seen trail maintenance that you don't agree with?

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    Alright wild1, I'll play devil's advocate, because I think you’re truly looking for feedback and nobody wants to bring up any criticism because of all the hard work and effort you've put into building and maintaining trails. This is not an argument against trail sustainability and maintenance, but rather access and availability.

    From the article you posted on Cog Wild you've mentioned one thing I don't agree with and I quote: “Trails close to town should be the easier trails, with the more technical advanced trail further out and harder to find” and "I still want to ride steep, techy trails like the ones that scared me on that unnamed campus as a kid, and I know where to find them. They are not the after-work ripper loop that you bust out of from your house or the two-mile loop out of your local trail center."

    Why are you discriminating against mountain bikers who want a techy trail out their back door? Why does this user group have to drive away from a local trail center to seek out these types of trails? Why do you suggest that they build their own pirate trails off the map to get in their kicks (and maybe even close to a trailhead)?

    I think I’ve ridden and lived in enough places (out West) to have a fairly good understanding of other ‘trail centers’. Trail centers accommodate all types of ability levels. A good local example is Post Canyon in Hood River. Or, geez, how about Black Rock and Sandy Ridge? These trail centers have a mix of easy to expert level trails and I think they were designed to accommodate 90-95%% of riders who show up. Obviously, each trail center is terrain dependent, but I haven’t traveled to any one place that breaks up their local trails into Easy Trail Center, Intermediate Trail Center and Expert Only. Most trail centers accommodate all those abilities.

    I just don’t agree with this train of thought. Yes, people might get in over their heads, yes, they might get hurt by riding a more advanced trail than their skills dictate. However, this ‘problem’ applies to all outdoor recreation. Let people make an educated decision (map & guide book) about what level of risk they’re willing to accept. Excluding a user group because their skill level is beyond the masses is just not right.

    So, again, thank you for all your hard work in building and maintaining our trails. I just implore you not to pigeon hole a trail center, no matter where it’s located.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cererbus View Post
    Or, geez, how about Black Rock and Sandy Ridge? These trail centers have a mix of easy to expert level trails and I think they were designed to accommodate 90-95%% of riders who show up.
    I interpreted it as making the more challenging trails more difficult to reach.

    For example, the entrance off the top of Blackrock is encouraged to be the green (Banzai Downhill) line, with Sickter Gnar harder to find and Grannie's Kitchen pretty well-obfuscated unless you are pretty stubborn about tracking it down. Of course you could enter the bottom section of Grannie's Kitchen which is a roughly 6ft drop down onto rocks, directly above the training area, but at least at the top there's some effort to make it harder to find for the first time visitor.

    At Sandy Ridge the most challenging trails start at the very top and it's easier the lower you are in the system with the beginner trails at the very bottom. I've met beginners out there who are focusing entirely on those lower trails, so that seems to work. We're trying to work in a similar way at Alsea Falls.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cererbus View Post
    Alright wild1, I'll play devil's advocate, because I think you’re truly looking for feedback and nobody wants to bring up any criticism because of all the hard work and effort you've put into building and maintaining trails. This is not an argument against trail sustainability and maintenance, but rather access and availability.

    From the article you posted on Cog Wild you've mentioned one thing I don't agree with and I quote: “Trails close to town should be the easier trails, with the more technical advanced trail further out and harder to find” and "I still want to ride steep, techy trails like the ones that scared me on that unnamed campus as a kid, and I know where to find them. They are not the after-work ripper loop that you bust out of from your house or the two-mile loop out of your local trail center."

    Why are you discriminating against mountain bikers who want a techy trail out their back door? Why does this user group have to drive away from a local trail center to seek out these types of trails? Why do you suggest that they build their own pirate trails off the map to get in their kicks (and maybe even close to a trailhead)?

    I think I’ve ridden and lived in enough places (out West) to have a fairly good understanding of other ‘trail centers’. Trail centers accommodate all types of ability levels. A good local example is Post Canyon in Hood River. Or, geez, how about Black Rock and Sandy Ridge? These trail centers have a mix of easy to expert level trails and I think they were designed to accommodate 90-95%% of riders who show up. Obviously, each trail center is terrain dependent, but I haven’t traveled to any one place that breaks up their local trails into Easy Trail Center, Intermediate Trail Center and Expert Only. Most trail centers accommodate all those abilities.

    I just don’t agree with this train of thought. Yes, people might get in over their heads, yes, they might get hurt by riding a more advanced trail than their skills dictate. However, this ‘problem’ applies to all outdoor recreation. Let people make an educated decision (map & guide book) about what level of risk they’re willing to accept. Excluding a user group because their skill level is beyond the masses is just not right.

    So, again, thank you for all your hard work in building and maintaining our trails. I just implore you not to pigeon hole a trail center, no matter where it’s located.
    I am in agreement Cererbus. I am all for techy black trails close to home. Mostly as I don't like driving all the time.

    COD should be a good example once the re-route is finished.

    I think the reality is more challenging trails end up farther from town. Sure. But I see no good reason that should be any type of goal.

    If someone breaks their neck it's easier to get them Evac'd close to town no? Ok this is part joke as i just broke my neck 30 minutes out of town

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    strongly agree with Cererbus and Sketchbook as well

    sustainability and difficulty don't have to work in opposition. for over a decade I rode trails in the east coast that conflict with every IMBA standard of trail grade - but they are built to take advantage of the terrain and natural features and have remained 100% solid.

    I fully realize that soils are much more delicate in Bend, but people who ride bikes want VARIETY at the least, and at the other end, challenge. I know someone will say just ride the existing stuff faster... but we've got tons of opportunity to do this already.

    I don't think we need 20 ft step-ups right at phils trail head, but I REALLY, and I mean really wish we had something like COD that would take advantage of a lot of the features closer to town. Not everyone has 3 hrs to get deep to get their fix on different terrain, and being able to quickly RIDE to the tech stuff saves on people wanting to drive to get to options with more diversity (less driving = way more sustainable!)

    Bend already has a rock solid network of easy terrain for the masses. But for the people who live here (and yes, I show up at trail work days) and for the people who vacation here who want more challenging riding (in-between tending to the rest of their family's needs/wants on vacation) we need more varied choices, more chances to challenge ourselves, and more chance to improve as riders.

    .....and we also need a FUN kids loop that lets people climb up kents and get down phils earlier, maybe about 2 miles total. Not fire road. My kids hate to ride fireroad to get to single track.....hmmmm.....sound just like me frustrated to have to ride mellow terrain to get to more challenging terrain.......

  38. #38
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    Jay, let's go ride! I'll give you a call.

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    Thanks for some comments and feedback. Cererbus, you are right, I am looking for feedback, and wrote the piece with the intention of getting folks thinking about this subject.
    I really hope that all you folks aren't holding back from commenting because you don't want to dis-respect me, or think I'm untouchable because I have done some trail work over the years. I actually don't subscribe to the whole "you don't get to voice your opinion unless you show up" mantra that has been floating around so much. Especially in this case, I am pretty sure most mountain bikers have seen trail work that changed a trail for the worse.

    So, to respond to the comments: tbmaddux does a good job of clarifying what I meant by "trails close to town should be the easy ones". A better way to put it might be that entry level trails should be easy to access, while this is not necessarily so for harder trails. From a sustainability stand point, this seems to make sense to me. If there are difficult features on an otherwise easy trail, the masses will skid and rut it up and cause erosion.

    As far as "trail centers" go, it seems there are two categories:
    One is the renegade trails that have become excepted by the land manager, and developed after these trails have become legit. Examples are Post Canyon or Gailbraith, or Bend for that matter. It is now up to the local trail stewards (HoodRats in the case of Post) to work out what trails stay, which ones get dismantled or change, and where new trails should be built to complete the network. In this situation, maybe there is a hard, advanced trail that leaves right from the trail head.

    The other "trail center" category is a system that has been designed from the ground up to be a mountain bike destination. Sandy Ridge and Alsea Falls are examples. In this case, yes, I do believe it should be designed with the easier trails closer to the trail head, and the harder ones higher up and further out. As pointed out in a few posts, this as also very terrain specific, If the good terrain for the harder trails is close (COD for example), then so be it.
    There is certainly no need to make a completely different trail head for each ability level.

    The fact is, for better of worse, mountain biking is becoming more popular and more mainstream. There are more and more entry level riders and I feel it is the responsibility of the "folks who show up" to make trail that appeals to this group. In some cases that means building new trail, and in others, it means changing a trail to accommodate those folks, ie "dumb down".


    One major point I did not go to deep into: Dumbing down for the wrong reasons! Count me as one who hates it when something is changed because some random dude can't ride it. Unless it is an issue of maintenance and sustainability, you had better have a really good reason to make something easier to ride.

  40. #40
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    I should move to Bend since the city of Portland keeps removing us from multi-use and purpose built trails!
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild1 View Post
    One major point I did not go to deep into: Dumbing down for the wrong reasons! Count me as one who hates it when something is changed because some random dude can't ride it. Unless it is an issue of maintenance and sustainability, you had better have a really good reason to make something easier to ride.


    thanks for clarifying that.

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    Sorry double post

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    How did I miss this for so long? I actually liked the post Lev and also had some concerns about difficulty locations. Bend is known for miles and miles of low angle smiles and most are perfectly happy with that. But, as locals and knowledgeable visitors know, Gray, Cline, Round, Lookout, etc all bring something else to the game. As a long time trail builder (legal and otherwise) I get where Lev is coming from and my builds have become more "sustainable" (I hate that overused word to describe trails these days) as I've grown older. Due to my own laziness of having to go back and fix it and because it adds more creative juices to "keep it fun" while being viewed as "easier" at first glance. Tough balance to keep and I applaud all that work hard to do it but I still hope more rockery gets included a lot closer to the Phil's TH. Lots of outcroppings that got routed around in the early days that could be incorporated now. I will say lower Golden Schauers (is that how his name was spelled?) above and below the picnic table is a hoot with just enough rock to keep you honest and an ability to keep the speed up. If the "dumbing down" is being done by the builder or at the request of the land manager, I'm all for it. But, random riders modifying original intent chaps my A**. But, the re-build of Whoops a few years back was a bummer.... Leaving it natural was more fun IMHO. But, I get why it was done and still have fun on it....

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    Trails are a democracy, you vote with a tool in your hand.

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    COD will receive significant change and relo this year, it is part of the new Welcome Center Trails Plan. COTA begins work on a new 6 or so mile beginner trail loop radiating out of the welcome center which is due to open in fall. That trail will use some of the easier sections of COD. The new COD will be a bit longer and include way more rock sections and become more difficult that current. Work has begun on that and will continue through the season, lots of hand work.

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    ".....and we also need a FUN kids loop that lets people climb up kents and get down phils earlier, maybe about 2 miles total. Not fire road. My kids hate to ride fireroad to get to single track.....hmmmm.....sound just like me frustrated to have to ride mellow terrain to get to more challenging terrain......."

    Seems like a perfect goal for the Bend Bike Park to include in the design process. Yes, plans for such are starting now and I have been in communication with Bend Parks and Rec quite a bit. More on this later.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Trails are a democracy, you vote with a tool in your hand.
    Literally...At a COTA work party on Funner a year ago the 'crew leader' pulled out a hammer and started to chisel away rock on the paver drop lead in. I asked what sorta mining/archeological operation he was up to and he said this is were everybody flats. I told him not to be a jackwagon and moved on to build a transfer on the s-curves. Got questioned about the feature(?)

  48. #48
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    A bit of a statement: Bend is not the center of the universe There I said it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    A bit of a statement: Bend is not the center of the universe There I said it!
    Random Thoughts by Jaybo
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

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    Interesting discussion here. Now can I ask a personal question with a local angle?

    In 2009 we took a vacation in Bend and we drove into the mountains to ride the legendary MacKenzie river trail. Unfortunately I found it so difficult it wasn't fun for me. A 14 mile gradual downhill sounds fun but negotiating mound after mound of sharp lava rock garden got old quick. Part of it also was that I hadn't done a lot of off-road riding for several years and I was out-of-practice. It also didn't help that temps were in the 90s and I didn't carry enough water (How much do you need for a 14 mile downhill?), and that my full suspension bike had a less-than-optimal set-up for me at the time. Was the MRT in need of maintenance at the time or was it just my rusty skills and non-optimal riding position?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails More dumbing down of Bend trails?-mackenzie-river-trail.jpg  


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    That's a good photo of a technical, rocky, natural feature that should remain as it is. Unlike the section of roots that prompted this thread because they needed armoring before the trail tread (or the roots themselves) got torn apart, those rocks can survive tires and feet for a very long time.

    It's ok if you have to walk around it. I walked around a lot of the lava below Tamolitch Falls / Blue Pool on my first ride of the McKenzie River Trail.
    Last edited by tbmaddux; 03-24-2015 at 09:57 AM. Reason: clarified first paragraph

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racnad View Post
    Interesting discussion here. Now can I ask a personal question with a local angle?

    In 2009 we took a vacation in Bend and we drove into the mountains to ride the legendary MacKenzie river trail. Unfortunately I found it so difficult it wasn't fun for me. A 14 mile gradual downhill sounds fun but negotiating mound after mound of sharp lava rock garden got old quick. Part of it also was that I hadn't done a lot of off-road riding for several years and I was out-of-practice. It also didn't help that temps were in the 90s and I didn't carry enough water (How much do you need for a 14 mile downhill?), and that my full suspension bike had a less-than-optimal set-up for me at the time. Was the MRT in need of maintenance at the time or was it just my rusty skills and non-optimal riding position?
    Yeah that's a nice section of trail.

    In a way - it's sort of naturally paved with stone. There's rock upon rock, and loose rocks have been removed and the rocks left have been compacted together.

    If you took a rock off the trail, there's another rock beneath it, so without paving this by hand, this is about as smooth as it will ever be.

    MRT is not for beginners

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    To anyone who says xc needs to be big ring climbing, when is the last time you watched an xco world cup race? Delightful mix of technical and flow, and plenty of riders on hard tails clearing some gnarly stuff.

    I'm amazed Bend trails aren't built up with more rock features that are "rideable but techy." By that I mean more up and overs like the beginning of COD. There is plenty of width available to throw a feature in next to the main trail to keep it all exciting or fast - and something other than just a mound of dirt to huck to flat. With the amount of deadfall and piles of lonely rocks I see in the area there seems, from an out of towner missing his roots and climbs, to be a lot of wasted potential in an effort to keep the trails "oh so buttery smooth."

    If you all are going to spend thousands on your FS 29ers, at least give yourself trail to enjoy them on and challenge yourself.


    Beef

  54. #54
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    COD is getting relocated some and will indeed have lots of rock. Stay tuned.Flag line is almost complete, construction will start soon.

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    This is why I rarely leave the south side of the highway. Mountain biking doesn't get much more boring than the Phil's complex.

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