Dog bite incident on C.O.D. (Bend)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Dog bite incident on C.O.D. (Bend)

    Posting this for a friend who was bitten by a dog while riding C.O.D. trail yesterday. She's trying to track down the owner. If you have any info, fire me a PM and I'll forward it on to her. More details below. Thanks.

    "I was bitten yesterday while riding my mountain bike on the C.O.D. trail by an unleashed pit bull. I am truly afraid this could happen to my small children--or yours--and want to find the owner of this dog.

    The owner apologized, but never volunteered any information or offered to pay for my medical expenses. Although I was wearing tights, the bite broke the skin, and I had to get a tetanus shot.


    The dog is a pit bull (or mix) with reddish-brown, short fur. The dog's name is ZOE, and was with two other off-leash dogs at the time (one that looked like the attacker and another that looked like a shepard of some sort). The dog was wearing two collars, one of which was a pinch collar.


    This was an unprovoked and sudden attack. This dog is unpredictable---please help me find it before it happens to someone else and the consequences are worse. I think I was pretty lucky. Thank you for any information you can offer to help me contact the owner of this dog."

  2. #2
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    Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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    Boooooo....Indeed.

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    Idiot owners!! Leash your dog, and muzzle her if she's a problem. Ugh.

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  6. #6
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    Bite the owner and take any beer that they may have.Take the owner trail riding and keep said owner on a leash for the duration of the ride.Sorry about your experience.
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  7. #7
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    The Prosecution rests its case.

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  8. #8
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    Did the owner know the skin was broken? I assume since it just required a tetanus shot that it was a single bite rather than a lock-up-and-shake? Did you ask for contact info? Did you call the police? It's very important to file a police report as soon as possible. In Oregon, there's really nothing to do unless there is a prior bite on record. I'm not an attorney, but it's my understanding that there is no criminal liability for the first reported bite unless it's a full-on mauling that proves without a reasonable doubt that the dog must have shown previous aggression. Civil is obviously a different game. Either way she should have called the police in the parking lot.
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    Shitty dog owners piss me off. There's no excuse for having a dog off leash that you can't control verbally or remotely, much less multiple dogs off leash.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    Did the owner know the skin was broken? I assume since it just required a tetanus shot that it was a single bite rather than a lock-up-and-shake? Did you ask for contact info? Did you call the police? It's very important to file a police report as soon as possible. In Oregon, there's really nothing to do unless there is a prior bite on record. I'm not an attorney, but it's my understanding that there is no criminal liability for the first reported bite unless it's a full-on mauling that proves without a reasonable doubt that the dog must have shown previous aggression. Civil is obviously a different game. Either way she should have called the police in the parking lot.
    I wonder if she was too rattled (having just been bitten by a pit bull) to get all of that info immediately?

  11. #11
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    It's time for mandatory gun carrying in our national forests! Let's pass a law!

    Wait... scratch that. That sounds too tea baggish.

    Seriously, though, wasn't there just a recent thread on dogs on the trails? I would feel just a teeny tiny bit better if this happened on the DRT, because there's always dogs running around there, but why oh why is this happening on our mainly bike specific trails?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I wonder if she was too rattled (having just been bitten by a pit bull) to get all of that info immediately?
    My thoughts exactly.
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    just plain unfriendly and maladjusted.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I wonder if she was too rattled (having just been bitten by a pit bull) to get all of that info immediately?
    Most likely. When I got bitten several years ago, I was so amped up with adrenaline and emotion that the last thing I was thinking was to get info. All I wanted to do was to away from the dog, and more so, it's owner before an already bad scene turned worse.

  14. #14
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    Too bad

    Pit Bull dogs are terrier and breed to chase stuff. The movement of your legs is a moving target. My dog will bark a few times but never bites. I do bet there are more hurt people by reckless bikers and other issues through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    In Oregon, there's really nothing to do unless there is a prior bite on record. I'm not an attorney, but it's my understanding that there is no criminal liability for the first reported bite unless it's a full-on mauling that proves without a reasonable doubt that the dog must have shown previous aggression.
    Not necessarily true. Liability is determined via duty owed and duty breached. Dog owner has a duty to keep said dog in control and from harming people or other animals. Clearly that duty was breached here, the definition of legal liability has been met. Find out who the owner is - there's a medical claim easily established against this persons home owners or renters insurance policy if they've got those. They'll cover bills and more than likely throw some money at you to make you go away, even if its for what they may consider nuisance value. bummer though, hope you heal soon.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    Pit Bull dogs are terrier and breed to chase stuff. The movement of your legs is a moving target. My dog will bark a few times but never bites. I do bet there are more hurt people by reckless bikers and other issues through.
    That is not an acceptable reason and I NEVER believe dog owners that claim their dog will NEVER bite.
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  17. #17
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    Never said it was....

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    That is not an acceptable reason and I NEVER believe dog owners that claim their dog will NEVER bite.
    I hear you but stuff happens. I bet far more riders get hurt by other bikers than dogs or even more like a tree.

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    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by pigdog
    Not necessarily true. Liability is determined via duty owed and duty breached. Dog owner has a duty to keep said dog in control and from harming people or other animals. Clearly that duty was breached here, the definition of legal liability has been met. Find out who the owner is - there's a medical claim easily established against this persons home owners or renters insurance policy if they've got those. They'll cover bills and more than likely throw some money at you to make you go away, even if its for what they may consider nuisance value. bummer though, hope you heal soon.
    This is the reason we all need insurance for guys like this! He should pay for the medical attention and be fined for having an out of control dog off leash. How much would be enough?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I hear you but stuff happens. I bet far more riders get hurt by other bikers than dogs or even more like a tree.
    Too bad mtbr's filter won't let me type the word dumbass, Dumbass.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    My dog will bark a few times but never bites. I do bet there are more hurt people by reckless bikers and other issues through.
    The woman that owned the dog that bit me was shouting (from 50+ feet away) at me "don't worry, he doesn't bite" as the dog was running toward me barking. Would have been nice if directed her shouting at the dog instead of me.

    This recent incident in Bend is a sad example of an irresponsible pet owner.

  21. #21
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    A trend?

    Sadly, this seems to be an increasing trend the last couple of years. I have encountered more and more off leash dogs on MTB oriented trails lately. I was even bitten on the hand by an off leash dog last year. What really pisses me off is that after a dog chases me the owner acts like it's my fault that i didn't stop. The last couple of times I have been chased I just ride on and allow the dog to chase me for a way. That way the owner has to chase the dog to catch it. Not sure if they get the message though. I like dogs but hate irresponsible owners.
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  22. #22
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    The woman that owned the dog that bit me was shouting (from 50+ feet away) at me "don't worry, he doesn't bite" as the dog was running toward me barking. Would have been nice if directed her shouting at the dog instead of me.

    This recent incident in Bend is a sad example of an irresponsible pet owner.
    I'm just not sure we need to get all dramatic about this stuff. Heck, roadies are getting killed by cars, kids burned up in fires , and other terrible stuff. A dog running around may not reach that level of alarm. What do you think? Just a thought.

  23. #23
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    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Too bad mtbr's filter won't let me type the word dumbass, Dumbass.

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    I'm not sure what else to say....you really should be banned from this site. Are guys like you common in the DOD? Wow, almost 60 and acting like this. What were you like earlier on?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I hear you but stuff happens. I bet far more riders get hurt by other bikers than dogs or even more like a tree.
    So would you shrug your shoulders and say stuff happens after I cracked your dog on it's skull a few times with my pump as a preventative measure to ensure it did not attack me after it barked at me?

    I doubt it.

    If dog can bite person and you say "stuff happens", why can't person injure dog and the same "stuff happens" apply?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I'm just not sure we need to get all dramatic about this stuff. Heck, roadies are getting killed by cars, kids burned up in fires , and other terrible stuff. A dog running around may not reach that level of alarm. What do you think? Just a thought.
    I see... So, the next time we get rushed and bitten by an aggressive and out-of-control dog, we should just stand there and say "No worries -- at least my house isn't burning down."

    Way to put it in perspective

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    Ha, it's probably Jaybo's dog, hence all the ridiculous nonsense talk about houses burning and other stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with dogs on the trail

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    I tried to stay off this thread, but it's too tempting. I agree with Jaybo. The rest of you have made your opinions known about dogs in many other threads, as have I. You have as much credibility with me when it comes to dogs as bob Stacey does when it comes to mountain bikes in forest park. Which is to say I'll be beyond shocked if you ever take the dogs side. But I guess the same would apply to me. So I'll leave it at that.

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    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    I tried to stay off this thread, but it's too tempting. I agree with Jaybo. The rest of you have made your opinions known about dogs in many other threads, as have I. You have as much credibility with me when it comes to dogs as bob Stacey does when it comes to mountain bikes in forest park. Which is to say I'll be beyond shocked if you ever take the dogs side. But I guess the same would apply to me. So I'll leave it at that.
    Aww d$m%s$i%s, they're becoming more and more common. I'm not against the dog. I'm against owners who can't properly TRAIN their pets, or don't get a suitable dog for what they want them to do. There is more and more of them. Most especially idiots who own pitpulls and act like they are as safe as every other dog. Don't get me wrong, i own a pitpull. I would never take him on a trail as I don't see pits as a good trail dog because of the aggressiveness. He doesn't bite, but i'm SMART enough to know he can get riled up easier than a lot of other dogs. But whatever, %$^&ing idiots don't mind their dogs out biting people. Guess they just think the people must deserve it. HAHA i am losing so much faith in mankind anymore.

  29. #29
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    Not all dumbasses own dogs. Not all dog owners are dumbassess. But whenever these two attributes are combined in one person, society suffers a special kind of moron, one who seems to think it's okay to thrust his problem onto the backs (or legs, as the case may be) of others.

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  30. #30
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    This is absolutely ludacris!!!!
    First off, I like dogs; and happen to have a black lab.
    WARNING!!!! To all owners of dogs on trails in central oregon!
    I have been chased and cornered multiple times in the Phils complex; by dogs who have stupid owners, who fail to realize they did a horrible job training their pets.
    Its not fair to other trail users, to have to worry about being bit or attacked.
    I've had enough of this crap! If your dog chases me or corners me! I'm going to f-ing kick some dog a$$!
    And when I'm done with your dog; i'm going to chase and corner the owner and BITE them!!!!!
    BE RESPONSIBLE, AND CONTROL YOUR PET!
    AND THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY PROBLEMS!
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    This is absolutely ludacris!!!!
    First off, I like dogs; and happen to have a black lab.
    WARNING!!!! To all owners of dogs on trails in central oregon!
    I have been chased and cornered multiple times in the Phils complex; by dogs who have stupid owners, who fail to realize they did a horrible job training their pets.
    Its not fair to other trail users, to have to worry about being bit or attacked.
    I've had enough of this crap! If your dog chases me or corners me! I'm going to f-ing kick some dog a$$!
    And when I'm done with your dog; i'm going to chase and corner the owner and BITE them!!!!!
    BE RESPONSIBLE, AND CONTROL YOUR PET!
    AND THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY PROBLEMS!
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  32. #32
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    Wow - didn't mean to spark off a powder keg here. Just hoping to get some leads on the owner of the dog.

    Yes - a police report was filed post-incident. The gal that got bit was obviously shaken up and probably wasn't thinking quite straight, thus didn't get the owners info at the time. I think she just wanted to get away from the dog and worry about the rest later. Still on the hunt for info on the owner.

    By the way - is anyone else having issues w/ the mtbr site? Pages are loading ultra slow (as in several minutes) for the past few days for me.

  33. #33
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick
    This is absolutely ludacris!!!!
    First off, I like dogs; and happen to have a black lab.
    WARNING!!!! To all owners of dogs on trails in central oregon!
    I have been chased and cornered multiple times in the Phils complex; by dogs who have stupid owners, who fail to realize they did a horrible job training their pets.
    Its not fair to other trail users, to have to worry about being bit or attacked.
    I've had enough of this crap! If your dog chases me or corners me! I'm going to f-ing kick some dog a$$!
    And when I'm done with your dog; i'm going to chase and corner the owner and BITE them!!!!!
    BE RESPONSIBLE, AND CONTROL YOUR PET!
    AND THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY PROBLEMS!
    Could not agree more! Spot on.
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  34. #34
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    I apologize if my comment seemed like I was defending the dog owner. I do understand that things get heated. I keep my dog within a couple feet and I wish everyone else did the same. I can always reach down and grab her when we see people or dogs. I'd be uber-pissed if I had to stick my hands in a dog fight because some jerkoff couldn't be bothered to carry a few treats and call their dog.

    Good job calling the police, although I would discourage her from contacting the owner herself. If someone identifies the owner, I would have animal control contact them and the vet to verify rabies vaccinations. Don't just take some boogan's word that their dog is up to date on shots.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick
    This is absolutely ludacris!!!!
    First off, I like dogs; and happen to have a black lab.
    WARNING!!!! To all owners of dogs on trails in central oregon!
    I have been chased and cornered multiple times in the Phils complex; by dogs who have stupid owners, who fail to realize they did a horrible job training their pets.
    Its not fair to other trail users, to have to worry about being bit or attacked.
    I've had enough of this crap! If your dog chases me or corners me! I'm going to f-ing kick some dog a$$!
    And when I'm done with your dog; i'm going to chase and corner the owner and BITE them!!!!!
    BE RESPONSIBLE, AND CONTROL YOUR PET!
    AND THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY PROBLEMS!
    I debated responding to this. I have lived your scenario. I was attacked by a large doberman as the degenerate owner stood by and did nothing. I will spare you all the details but it did not end well for dog or owner. I could live with that but he had wife and two small horrified children in tow. Not sure what to make of that but there you have it. Moral of the story.... may want to think of just how you may handle given scenario before you hit the trail. For the record I am a diehard dog lover

  36. #36
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    Never trust an unleashed dog until properly introduced. If you see and unleashed dog I would suggest dismounting and placing your bike between you and the dog. If the owner comes along ask them to please secure the dog until you can pass. If your bitten beat the crap out of the owner with your bike then tell them your bike would never beat the crap out of anyone.
    Dog ownership should require a license. I like dogs but some dog owners can be scary stupid.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollybeggar
    Never trust an unleashed dog until properly introduced. If you see and unleashed dog I would suggest dismounting and placing your bike between you and the dog. If the owner comes along ask them to please secure the dog until you can pass. If your bitten beat the crap out of the owner with your bike then tell them your bike would never beat the crap out of anyone.
    Dog ownership should require a license. I like dogs but some dog owners can be scary stupid.
    In Bend, dismounting every time you see an unleashed dog on the trails would mean you spend as much time standing as riding.

    I've been charged at by unleashed dogs twice so far in 2011 (running, not riding). Since I didn't have any bike to place between us I just decided to go all alpha on the dogs. I yelled as loudly as I could, "NO!!!" The one dog that went for my hand, I slapped across its snout. The owners were apologetic. "I'm sorry! He's never done that before..."

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    The Prosecution rests its case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollybeggar
    Never trust an unleashed dog until properly introduced. If you see and unleashed dog I would suggest dismounting and placing your bike between you and the dog. If the owner comes along ask them to please secure the dog until you can pass. If your bitten beat the crap out of the owner with your bike then tell them your bike would never beat the crap out of anyone.
    Dog ownership should require a license. I like dogs but some dog owners can be scary stupid.
    Good tip regarding not trusting an unleashed dog.


    The heck if I'm going to dismount .

    Increasing real estate between the dog/attacker and myself is my first line of defense. My second and probably final line of defense:

    If I decide the dog/attacker is beyond a water bottle squirt, and an attack is imminent or the attack has commenced, then the dog/attacker is going to eat lead. Period.
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  40. #40
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    As someone who owns a dog and absolutely loves them and all animals, and knows that it's the owners fault for not properly training their dog, I have to ask....Why if there was a pit bull charging and barking at you did you not take the preventative messure of dismounting your bike and putting it between you and the dog? Yes it was wrong for the owner to have a dog off leash they could not control, but it also was your responsibility to take action to protect yourself in case. I, as said love dogs and know most just bark out of fear and uncertainty, but until I can determin this, I will always ere on the side of caution if approached by such a dog.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    The woman that owned the dog that bit me was shouting (from 50+ feet away) at me "don't worry, he doesn't bite" as the dog was running toward me barking. Would have been nice if directed her shouting at the dog instead of me.

    This recent incident in Bend is a sad example of an irresponsible pet owner.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    As someone who owns a dog and absolutely loves them and all animals, and knows that it's the owners fault for not properly training their dog, I have to ask....Why if there was a pit bull charging and barking at you did you not take the preventative messure of dismounting your bike and putting it between you and the dog? Yes it was wrong for the owner to have a dog off leash they could not control, but it also was your responsibility to take action to protect yourself in case. I, as said love dogs and know most just bark out of fear and uncertainty, but until I can determin this, I will always ere on the side of caution if approached by such a dog.
    Irrelevant question. Period.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    As someone who owns a dog and absolutely loves them and all animals, and knows that it's the owners fault for not properly training their dog, I have to ask....Why if there was a pit bull charging and barking at you did you not take the preventative messure of dismounting your bike and putting it between you and the dog? Yes it was wrong for the owner to have a dog off leash they could not control, but it also was your responsibility to take action to protect yourself in case. I, as said love dogs and know most just bark out of fear and uncertainty, but until I can determin this, I will always ere on the side of caution if approached by such a dog.
    Hi Lynx,

    Jump in to a discussion only if you have fully read and understand the ENTIRE thread please. I never said I was charged and bitten by a pitbull. I only mentioned a dog. Pitbull was the breed that is referenced by the OP.

    The post of mine you quoted was posted in response to another post containing a statement about a dog that would only bark but not bite. The owner of the dog that bit me held the same incorrect belief.

    I also did not provide a detailed enough description of the incident that you should assume that I did not attempt to dismount and get into a defensible position. Unfortunately for me I was not able to get that done (muddy SPD pedal being a bit difficult to unclip) before the dog got around behind me and got a hold on my calf.

    Thanks for letting me know what my responsibility is concerning self protection.

  43. #43
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    Having a unleashed dog(s) in public is poor judgement by any owner. Given that most breeds and mixes are truely good natured, still no excuse. A happy dog will always be a happy dog, even on a leash

    For the "i'm better than thou... i'm vey special" ( or the I'll ride the closed trail because no one's around type ) people that feel justified... at least fess up and any pay any damages/medical. Maybe your heart will grow like the Grinch.......

  44. #44
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    Most of dog bites that are from "pit bull type" dogs or other dogs are really fed from Fear Based agression. The dog may have looked mean to you, but in reality it probably saw a person on some kind of contraption and was threatened or scared, hence they try to think in advance and protect themselves prior to any danger to them.

    Sorry that you got bit, but don't punish the dog, punish the s**t out of the irresponsible owner for contributing to the concept that all pits are bad.

    The End

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    Yup, and you're the same sort of person who sues McDs because they got burnt by the "hot" coffee or got fat because you ate their food and they didn't have up warnings that fast food is unhealthy and makes you fat
    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455
    Irrelevant question. Period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xprop1
    A happy dog will always be a happy dog, even on a leash.
    Wrong. All large breed dogs need exercise, especially off leash exercise. Sure it's not appropriate to have an unleashed dog in a variety of situations. But if you keep them on leash at all times you will have an unhealthy and unhappy dog, whether you realizeit or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    As someone who owns a dog and absolutely loves them and all animals, and knows that it's the owners fault for not properly training their dog, I have to ask....Why if there was a pit bull charging and barking at you did you not take the preventative messure of dismounting your bike and putting it between you and the dog? Yes it was wrong for the owner to have a dog off leash they could not control, but it also was your responsibility to take action to protect yourself in case. I, as said love dogs and know most just bark out of fear and uncertainty, but until I can determin this, I will always ere on the side of caution if approached by such a dog.
    I don't think it's appropriate to question the bitten person's response. We don't know the entire scenario (and should it really matter?). A dog running full speed coming up from behind can move extremely quickly, and if it's not barking you wouldn't even hear it coming until it was within a few feet of you.

    If a person gets attacked (by a dog, mugger, rapist, soldier, or otherwise), the question should not be, "Why didn't you defend yourself? You should have defended yourself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by PitBullSupporter
    Most of dog bites that are from "pit bull type" dogs or other dogs are really fed from Fear Based agression. The dog may have looked mean to you, but in reality it probably saw a person on some kind of contraption and was threatened or scared, hence they try to think in advance and protect themselves prior to any danger to them.
    That isn't much consolation to anyone who has been attacked by one. I don't really care if the dog bites because it is scared or if it is aggressive, either way it's not cool.

    Let's flip this statement around. What if I -- as a human -- am fed by fear based aggression. I'm not really mean, but if I see a dog with sharp teeth, I feel threatened and pre-eminently strike before it has a chance. Should I be allowed to hang out at the dog park?
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I don't think it's appropriate to question the bitten person's response. We don't know the entire scenario (and should it really matter?).
    I agree, but it goes both ways. We don't know the owners or the dogs side of the story either, and its not entirely appropriate to speculate as to that as well. Yet the overwhelming majority of responses on this thread seem to support violence against the dog and owner.

    Nat - your past posts in these forums relating to dogs and your many bad encounters strongly suggest that you have a phobia and do not know how to handle yourself around dogs. I know that I questioned that a few months ago and was called out heavily for it. I don't know you, so maybe I'm just wrong. Maybe you're really the dog whisperer on a really bad string of luck. I also don't know the person who was bit, the dog, the owner or the situtaiton. It's not always the dogs fault though. There are plenty of knuckleheads out there.

    Bottom line to me. I'm sorry the OP's friend got bit. That really sucks and I wouldn't want it either. I don't know the dog, the owner, or the person being bit so I can provide no help for anyone. But assuming the bite victim's story is exactly the way they told it, I agree the dog owner should pay for the tetanus shot and take extra precautions in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    I agree, but it goes both ways. We don't know the owners or the serial killer's side of the story either, and its not entirely appropriate to speculate as to that as well. Yet the overwhelming majority of responses on this thread seem to support violence against the serial killer and owner.

    Nat - your past posts in these forums relating to serial killers and your many bad encounters strongly suggest that you have a phobia and do not know how to handle yourself around serial killers. I know that I questioned that a few months ago and was called out heavily for it. I don't know you, so maybe I'm just wrong. Maybe you're really the serial killer whisperer on a really bad string of luck. I also don't know the person who was murdered, the serial killer, the owner or the situtaiton. It's not always the serial killer's fault though. There are plenty of knuckleheads out there.

    Bottom line to me. I'm sorry the OP's friend got murdered. That really sucks and I wouldn't want it either. I don't know the serial killer, the owner, or the person being murdered so I can provide no help for anyone. But assuming the murder victim's story is exactly the way they told it, I agree the serial killer's owner should pay for the tetanus shot and take extra precautions in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Fixed it for ya.

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    Ha ha! Pretty funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    I agree, but it goes both ways. We don't know the owners or the dogs side of the story either, and its not entirely appropriate to speculate as to that as well. Yet the overwhelming majority of responses on this thread seem to support violence against the dog and owner.

    Nat - your past posts in these forums relating to dogs and your many bad encounters strongly suggest that you have a phobia and do not know how to handle yourself around dogs. I know that I questioned that a few months ago and was called out heavily for it. I don't know you, so maybe I'm just wrong. Maybe you're really the dog whisperer on a really bad string of luck. I also don't know the person who was bit, the dog, the owner or the situtaiton. It's not always the dogs fault though. There are plenty of knuckleheads out there.

    Bottom line to me. I'm sorry the OP's friend got bit. That really sucks and I wouldn't want it either. I don't know the dog, the owner, or the person being bit so I can provide no help for anyone. But assuming the bite victim's story is exactly the way they told it, I agree the dog owner should pay for the tetanus shot and take extra precautions in the future.
    I don't have a dog phobia, but I am also not a dog lover. I am indifferent. To me they are just another animal or pet, similar to a goldfish, but one that makes noise and licks you.

    I probably have a lot of encounters because I am out in the woods a lot and a lot of people in this area take their dogs in the the woods. I think it's just a matter of numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollybeggar
    Dog ownership should require a license. I like dogs but some dog owners can be scary stupid.
    +1, Your dog should have to pass an obedience test to be allowed off-leash in public. I mean that system has worked out really really well for motor vehicles. They only cause 35,000 fatalities, 4,000,000 hospitalizations, and $100 billion annual insurance losses. That's worse than all violent crime, homicide, terrorism, dog attacks, and wild animal attacks put together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    +1, Your dog should have to pass an obedience test to be allowed off-leash in public. I mean that system has worked out really really well for motor vehicles. They only cause 35,000 fatalities, 4,000,000 hospitalizations, and $100 billion annual insurance losses. That's worse than all violent crime, homicide, terrorism, dog attacks, and wild animal attacks put together.
    We can only imagine how bad it would be WITHOUT the required training & licensing.

    Then again maybe we can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Fixed it for ya.

    --sParty
    LOL. But wrong. If Nat had that many serial killer encounters and lived, I would say he is both extremely experienced and lucky and I would seek his advice on how to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    LOL. But wrong. If Nat had that many serial killer encounters and lived, I would say he is both extremely experienced and lucky and I would seek his advice on how to survive.
    How do you know I haven't?

    Edit: Oh wait -- since I don't love dogs doesn't that make me a serial killer?
    Last edited by Nat; 02-16-2011 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I don't have a dog phobia, but I am also not a dog lover. I am indifferent. To me they are just another animal or pet, similar to a goldfish, but one that makes noise and licks you.

    I probably have a lot of encounters because I am out in the woods a lot and a lot of people in this area take their dogs in the the woods. I think it's just a matter of numbers.
    Your posts on in these forums completely rebut your statement that you are indifferent. The numbers game is also wrong. Bend is not the only place with a lot of dogs and you are not the only person who spends a lot of time outside. The number of bad dog encounters that you report suggest to me that there is some other factor at play--I've said before what I think it is, so I don't think it bears repeating. The reality is that nothing I say is probably going to convince you of my point and your probably not going to convince me that you are indifferent. Chalk it up to another internet speculation dispute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    We can only imagine how bad it would be WITHOUT the required training & licensing.

    Then again maybe we can't.

    --sParty
    I would argue that training and licensing are a joke, and that Law Enforcement presence is the only influence for most people. Humans are largely irresponsible with a deeply rooted sense of entitlement. What do you think would happen if the police started actually enforcing the speed limit as the speed LIMIT rather than a minimum suggestion with a +5-15 mph buffer depending on the particular cop, dept. etc. What if moving violation fines started at $1000 and doubled with each successive violation, even for 1-2 mph over. What I think would happen, is that the population would scream and yell until the police backed off. Citizens want safety, they just don't want to change their personal behavior. If it did work, and everyone did start driving safer, we'd have to pay more taxes to make up for the loss in local revenue.

    According to Nat, there's 5000 dogs in Bend and lots of people on the trails and that leads to conflict. I wonder if there are 5000 people willing to demand leash laws on the trails? If not, well it is a constitutional democracy, you could always try to get the majority over-ruled by proving it violates your civil rights. It's certainly not his fault that he has had bad experiences with dogs, but I can't help but wonder if he's as offended by people driving like jackasses (and by jackass I mean average). Keep in mind he hasn't even been bitten this year, he's mad about being barked at, or "what might have happened." Does the OP's friend track down every irresponsible driver to "keep the children safe." The answer is no. Animal attacks tap a fear that is far older than our species. Combine that with the fact that these encounters are interfering with our beloved leisure time and over reaction is inevitable. Would the OP's friend have even gone to the Dr. if a similar wound had occurred from a stick? Some people certainly would, but I've also watched friends with insurance skip the doc when they probably actually needed stitches. They just pour in some antiseptic and then cover it with super glue.

    I do truly wish that every dog owner kept their dog close. I have had numerous experiences where some sheep dog comes running over to me. I yell "Call your dog!" and they reply "He's friendly!" By this time I have my hand on my dog's harness, but there's only so much I can do if your dog runs right up to us and sticks it's face next to hers. Then suddenly it's my fault their dog got bit. I hate those people. That being said, this is the world I live in, and the only way it's going to change is if enough citizens demand more Law Enforcement, but you have to be ready to pay for it, and you have to be prepared for the day when the masses single you out, and force you to change your lifestyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I would argue that training and licensing are a joke, and that Law Enforcement presence is the only influence for most people. Humans are largely irresponsible with a deeply rooted sense of entitlement. What do you think would happen if the police started actually enforcing the speed limit as the speed LIMIT rather than a minimum suggestion with a +5-15 mph buffer depending on the particular cop, dept. etc. What if moving violation fines started at $1000 and doubled with each successive violation, even for 1-2 mph over. What I think would happen, is that the population would scream and yell until the police backed off. Citizens want safety, they just don't want to change their personal behavior. If it did work, and everyone did start driving safer, we'd have to pay more taxes to make up for the loss in local revenue.

    According to Nat, there's 5000 dogs in Bend and lots of people on the trails and that leads to conflict. I wonder if there are 5000 people willing to demand leash laws on the trails? If not, well it is a constitutional democracy, you could always try to get the majority over-ruled by proving it violates your civil rights. It's certainly not his fault that he has had bad experiences with dogs, but I can't help but wonder if he's as offended by people driving like jackasses (and by jackass I mean average). Keep in mind he hasn't even been bitten this year, he's mad about being barked at, or "what might have happened." Does the OP's friend track down every irresponsible driver to "keep the children safe." The answer is no. Animal attacks tap a fear that is far older than our species. Combine that with the fact that these encounters are interfering with our beloved leisure time and over reaction is inevitable. Would the OP's friend have even gone to the Dr. if a similar wound had occurred from a stick? Some people certainly would, but I've also watched friends with insurance skip the doc when they probably actually needed stitches. They just pour in some antiseptic and then cover it with super glue.

    I do truly wish that every dog owner kept their dog close. I have had numerous experiences where some sheep dog comes running over to me. I yell "Call your dog!" and they reply "He's friendly!" By this time I have my hand on my dog's harness, but there's only so much I can do if your dog runs right up to us and sticks it's face next to hers. Then suddenly it's my fault their dog got bit. I hate those people. That being said, this is the world I live in, and the only way it's going to change is if enough citizens demand more Law Enforcement, but you have to be ready to pay for it, and you have to be prepared for the day when the masses single you out, and force you to change your lifestyle.
    What??? Who said I'm mad? I didn't even yell at the owner. Wasn't I just taking steps to protect myself from a bite? Should I have instead not yelled, "NO!" and just stood there?

    Figures this would turn into a thread about it being all my fault. Great. Thanks a lot SLinBend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    Your posts on in these forums completely rebut your statement that you are indifferent. The numbers game is also wrong. Bend is not the only place with a lot of dogs and you are not the only person who spends a lot of time outside. The number of bad dog encounters that you report suggest to me that there is some other factor at play--I've said before what I think it is, so I don't think it bears repeating. The reality is that nothing I say is probably going to convince you of my point and your probably not going to convince me that you are indifferent. Chalk it up to another internet speculation dispute.
    Just to clarify, "a lot" means maybe half a dozen in 9 years. Do you think I'm the only one who has encountered an aggressive dog, or am I the only one who posted about it on MTBR-Oregon?

    Edit: Was there something I wrote in this thread that showed malice or hate towards dogs or their owners? Considering what some others have posted, I thought I was pretty even-keeled.
    Last edited by Nat; 02-16-2011 at 02:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Yup, and you're the same sort of person who sues McDs because they got burnt by the "hot" coffee or got fat because you ate their food and they didn't have up warnings that fast food is unhealthy and makes you fat
    And you're the sort of person (Lawyer-type) who would summarize/blame the rape victim for causing the rape. So victims are perps first, then maybe victims second. You're the sort of person that would make excellent defense attorneys.



    Your earlier question simply attempts to lay blame on the attack victim. Period.

    Since it is a fact that said dog has an owner (As apposed to a 'wild' dog, etc) said dog should have been controlled by said owner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    What??? Who said I'm mad? I didn't even yell at the owner. Wasn't I just taking steps to protect myself from a bite? Should I have instead not yelled, "NO!" and just stood there?

    Figures this would turn into a thread about it being all my fault. Great. Thanks a lot SLinBend!
    I apologize for putting words in your mouth. It seemed like you were upset by the encounters, but I guess that's the drawback of text-based communication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I apologize for putting words in your mouth. It seemed like you were upset by the encounters, but I guess that's the drawback of text-based communication.
    Okay, thanks. I didn't even yell or make stink face at the owner. She apologized, we said some pleasantries and were on our way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Okay, thanks. I didn't even yell or make stink face at the owner. She apologized, we said some pleasantries and were on our way.
    Right on. I'm obviously sensitive about the dog issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I hear you but stuff happens. I bet far more riders get hurt by other bikers than dogs or even more like a tree.
    So?

    If a biker is responsible for hurting someone, it's the biker's responsibility.
    If a biker is responsible for running into a tree, it's the biker's responsibility.
    If a person is responsible for a dog that bites someone, it's their responsibility.

    There's logic here. I find it very hard to see why the person bit should be responsible for someone else's dog off-leash. Very arbitrary, so maybe you'd like to arbitrarily take responsibility and pay for their bills? Doesn't really make sense, but stuff happens.

    Regarding the other posts about licensing, perhaps that would help but it's just more bureaucratic BS that I don't think we need. I'd rather just see people take responsibility and ultimately be held responsible for their actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chmnyboy
    Regarding the other posts about licensing, perhaps that would help but it's just more bureaucratic BS that I don't think we need. I'd rather just see people take responsibility and ultimately be held responsible for their actions.
    I agree all around, although people taking responsibility just isn't going to happen. Period. As for holding people responsible, that's either bureaucratic justice or vigilante justice, and given the choice I'll take the bureaucracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    Right on. I'm obviously sensitive about the dog issue.
    I know it's a sensitive issue, and it's in the local press with the xc ski crowd lately.

    Since there are dog owners/lovers in this thread, maybe this would be a good place to ask what would the best way to handle being charged at by an aggressive dog when running or hiking?

    When I'm on my bike my strategy is to hop off and place the bike in between us. I've been doing more trail running lately and obviously my bike interference strategy doesn't apply. Most dogs I come across are excited/curious/friendly and I say "Hi pooch" and let it sniff me but what's the best way to handle a charging dog that's obviously aggressive? Is it incorrect to yell, "NO!" and act alpha? I figured that most dogs understand that word and will stand down if they decide you are like its owner. Is that an incorrect thing to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I know it's a sensitive issue, and it's in the local press with the xc ski crowd lately.

    Since there are dog owners/lovers in this thread, maybe this would be a good place to ask what would the best way to handle being charged at by an aggressive dog when running or hiking?

    When I'm on my bike my strategy is to hop off and place the bike in between us. I've been doing more trail running lately and obviously my bike interference strategy doesn't apply. Most dogs I come across are excited/curious/friendly and I say "Hi pooch" and let it sniff me but what's the best way to handle a charging dog that's obviously aggressive? Is it incorrect to yell, "NO!" and act alpha? I figured that most dogs understand that word and will stand down if they decide you are like its owner. Is that an incorrect thing to do?
    I don't think it's incorrect. It can be a thin line between confident and confrontational though. Most guard/fight breeds respond to both aggression and fear. The trick is being cool and in the middle,. However, the only real magic bullet that anyone has with a dog is food. If owners all carried a little bag of treats and doled them out regularly as a reward for obedience then this would all be a non-issue. My trainer has four competitive agility dogs that are youtube worthy obedient. She still gives treats even to the old ones even when they aren't practicing.

    My humble advice to anyone who has to regularly deal with aggressive (or even annoying) dogs is food. I don't believe in a principled way that this is what non-owners should have to do, but it is definitely the most effective way to diffuse the situation. Every dog knows what a hand down with a treat looks like, and every dog can be manipulated with food. If you go this route, hold your hand flat and let the dog take the treat from your palm, don't hold it between your fingers. It's a personal cost benefit I guess as to whether the hassle of carrying some easily accessible treats outweighs the risk of being bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I know it's a sensitive issue, and it's in the local press with the xc ski crowd lately.

    Since there are dog owners/lovers in this thread, maybe this would be a good place to ask what would the best way to handle being charged at by an aggressive dog when running or hiking?

    When I'm on my bike my strategy is to hop off and place the bike in between us. I've been doing more trail running lately and obviously my bike interference strategy doesn't apply. Most dogs I come across are excited/curious/friendly and I say "Hi pooch" and let it sniff me but what's the best way to handle a charging dog that's obviously aggressive? Is it incorrect to yell, "NO!" and act alpha? I figured that most dogs understand that word and will stand down if they decide you are like its owner. Is that an incorrect thing to do?
    Happy to try to help. I don't mean to be to offensive, but I do tend to take the dog's side.

    Dealing with dogs (like any animal) is very much a case by case scenario and experience helps tremendously. Dogs read body language extremely well, and there isn't really a one body language for one situation.

    No/alpha is a good response, but its very very hard to execute without conveying some sort of extra emotion (fear, anger, etc). Good dog trainers do this perfectly and thats why they don't have any issues with even the toughest dogs. If you give away emotion other than firmness, the dog tends to read right through you and reacts to the emotion rather than the command. I suspect you often give a way a challenge and or fear when you have had encounters in the past, which can lead to getting bit unfortunately. Not your fault, but you can learn how to avoid it.

    My personal opinion is thate being freindly towards the dog disarms the situation much quicker than being agressive. But you have to know how to do it, which makes NO safer for those with less experience. Practice with friends dogs and dogs you know on the trail are barkers/chasers, but not likely to be biters.

    If you actually get attacked, I've got no problem defending yourself by any means possible. I'm not always for the dog. I threatened to kill a guy's dog one time because he told me that it was going to "chew, chew, chew" my dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat

    Edit: Oh wait -- since I don't love dogs doesn't that make me a serial killer?
    It certainly makes me wonder.....Even Son of Sam loved puppies.

    Dogs and goldfish are practically the same? Hmmmmm....... sounds like you know some cool goldfish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I don't think it's incorrect. It can be a thin line between confident and confrontational though. Most guard/fight breeds respond to both aggression and fear. The trick is being cool and in the middle,. However, the only real magic bullet that anyone has with a dog is food. If owners all carried a little bag of treats and doled them out regularly as a reward for obedience then this would all be a non-issue. My trainer has four competitive agility dogs that are youtube worthy obedient. She still gives treats even to the old ones even when they aren't practicing.

    My humble advice to anyone who has to regularly deal with aggressive (or even annoying) dogs is food. I don't believe in a principled way that this is what non-owners should have to do, but it is definitely the most effective way to diffuse the situation. Every dog knows what a hand down with a treat looks like, and every dog can be manipulated with food. If you go this route, hold your hand flat and let the dog take the treat from your palm, don't hold it between your fingers. It's a personal cost benefit I guess as to whether the hassle of carrying some easily accessible treats outweighs the risk of being bit.
    I see what you're saying, but looking at the bigger picture, I don't think we should be exposing people to animals that require treats to redirect or defuse their aggression. Then again, perhaps my view is skewed by the fact that my brother's pitbull bit my wife and my four year old daughter right after assuring me that he was safe and well behaved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I'm just not sure we need to get all dramatic about this stuff. Heck, roadies are getting killed by cars, kids burned up in fires , and other terrible stuff. A dog running around may not reach that level of alarm. What do you think? Just a thought.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dog bite incident on C.O.D. (Bend)-dog-ate-porcupine.jpg  

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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I don't think it's incorrect. It can be a thin line between confident and confrontational though. Most guard/fight breeds respond to both aggression and fear. The trick is being cool and in the middle,. However, the only real magic bullet that anyone has with a dog is food. If owners all carried a little bag of treats and doled them out regularly as a reward for obedience then this would all be a non-issue. My trainer has four competitive agility dogs that are youtube worthy obedient. She still gives treats even to the old ones even when they aren't practicing.
    Cool and in the middle. I'll remember that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    My humble advice to anyone who has to regularly deal with aggressive (or even annoying) dogs is food. I don't believe in a principled way that this is what non-owners should have to do, but it is definitely the most effective way to diffuse the situation. Every dog knows what a hand down with a treat looks like, and every dog can be manipulated with food. If you go this route, hold your hand flat and let the dog take the treat from your palm, don't hold it between your fingers. It's a personal cost benefit I guess as to whether the hassle of carrying some easily accessible treats outweighs the risk of being bit.
    I'm trying to picture how I would get to some dog food quickly enough when I'm out on a run. I'm not even sure where I would store it since I don't like having things bouncing around in my pockets. Where do you keep yours?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    Happy to try to help. I don't mean to be to offensive, but I do tend to take the dog's side.

    Dealing with dogs (like any animal) is very much a case by case scenario and experience helps tremendously. Dogs read body language extremely well, and there isn't really a one body language for one situation.

    No/alpha is a good response, but its very very hard to execute without conveying some sort of extra emotion (fear, anger, etc). Good dog trainers do this perfectly and thats why they don't have any issues with even the toughest dogs. If you give away emotion other than firmness, the dog tends to read right through you and reacts to the emotion rather than the command. I suspect you often give a way a challenge and or fear when you have had encounters in the past, which can lead to getting bit unfortunately. Not your fault, but you can learn how to avoid it.

    My personal opinion is thate being freindly towards the dog disarms the situation much quicker than being agressive. But you have to know how to do it, which makes NO safer for those with less experience. Practice with friends dogs and dogs you know on the trail are barkers/chasers, but not likely to be biters.
    Firm and friendly but emotionless. Got it. I'm not quite sure how to do that yet but I'll run it through my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    ]If you actually get attacked, I've got no problem defending yourself by any means possible. I'm not always for the dog. I threatened to kill a guy's dog one time because he told me that it was going to "chew, chew, chew" my dog.
    In that case had you done something that provoked the other owner/dog?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch
    It certainly makes me wonder.....Even Son of Sam loved puppies.

    Dogs and goldfish are practically the same? Hmmmmm....... sounds like you know some cool goldfish.
    Some cool goldfish but also some spazzy ones not under voice control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Firm and friendly but emotionless. Got it. I'm not quite sure how to do that yet but I'll run it through my head.
    In that case had you done something that provoked the other owner/dog?
    Actually, positive emotion is best. Avoid anger and fear the most.

    As to the other question, the dog was perfectly fine. I am sure it wasn't the worlds nicest dog, but I would have been friendly with it. The owner was the problem-drunk and cranky. He was about 50 feet away and said I should get out of the way and if not he was going to let his dog chew mine up. I first tried telling him that my dog could care less about his dog or him unless they were planning to throw a ball for her. When he restated the threat, I politely told him that if he let or encouraged his dog to attack mine I would quickly kill it by yanking it off the ground and crushing it with my foot. That stopped his bs fast. But the whole time the dogs were fine.

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    I think that all dogs need to be off leash. The more socialized a dog is around people, other dogs, bikes, horses and everything else outdoors; the less likely they are going to be aggressive. Many owners keep there dogs in small fenced in pens in there yard or always on a leash regardless of where they are, this creates anger and aggressiveness in the dog. I've been taking my dog riding for years and now she is really good at it. When she was young she would jump in front of my bike but now she has learned what to do and not to do. Just like people, there is a learning curve for proper social behavior in a dogs.

    This does sound like a very unfortunate incident but the OP has also neglected to provide some details. Was the owner on a bike or not? Was this by a road or trail-head area? What was the level of injury? Did the dog look old or young? What was the age of the owner? Pictures? All of these questions might be irrelevant to the actions of the dog and owner but it does help to put the incident in context.

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    Sorry guys and gals, do we really need to carry dog treats, assess our emotional state to match a dogs reaction, etc. when we are out on the trail enjoying ourselves? Why is it my responsibility to accommodate someone that can't be bothered to prepare/train their pet properly? If they can't bother to spend the time preparing their pet, they need to leash it.

    Again, I like animals, but if I need to carry something it would likely be pepper spray before dog treats. If I dose a charging dog with pepper spray I am more confident in it's success than holding out a treat in my hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26
    ... Was the owner on a bike or not? Was this by a road or trail-head area? What was the level of injury? Did the dog look old or young? What was the age of the owner? Pictures?...
    You're right... none of this matters whatsoever.

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick
    This is absolutely ludacris!!!!
    First off, I like dogs; and happen to have a black lab.
    WARNING!!!! To all owners of dogs on trails in central oregon!
    I have been chased and cornered multiple times in the Phils complex; by dogs who have stupid owners, who fail to realize they did a horrible job training their pets.
    Its not fair to other trail users, to have to worry about being bit or attacked.
    I've had enough of this crap! If your dog chases me or corners me! I'm going to f-ing kick some dog a$$!
    And when I'm done with your dog; i'm going to chase and corner the owner and BITE them!!!!!
    BE RESPONSIBLE, AND CONTROL YOUR PET!
    AND THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY PROBLEMS!
    I may have overreacted in my post; but I'm absolutely sick and tired of this crap!
    I think maybe a stun gun purchase is in the works...
    Maybe a little zap would help....
    Joking of course. Owners just need to be more responsible for the animals they train and raise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick
    Maybe a little zap would help....
    I assume you are thinking of the irresponsible owner
    I ride at ludicrous speed

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    It does matter to the context of the situation. To just post a warning saying that there are crazy dogs on the trails without giving details of what actually happened is a bit irresponsible in my opinion. It should be known whether the owner looked like a local rider or not or whether they looked like they didn't normally go on trails. A lot can be known by giving a description of what they were wearing or looked like.

    All of this can help us, the readers, determine whether this is a serious issue that demands caution or just an isolated incident due to some idiot with a mean dog.

    Without putting the situation in context the only thing the OP is doing is fanning the flames of an ideological debate on whether or not dogs should be allowed on trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26
    ...
    Without putting the situation in context the only thing the OP is doing is fanning the flames of an ideological debate on whether or not dogs should be allowed on trails.
    Personally I disagree, even as I don't mean to be disagreeable. Serial killers are out there... among us. The fact that we can't ID Jeffrey Dahmer in a crowd, in advance of his next killing, has nothing to do with it.

    For me, anyway. I admit I'm just here to rant against irresponsible dog owners. I'd do the same thing for irresponsible shooters of firearms, irresponsible drivers, whatever. Egocentric morons who wander through their lives messing things up for others because they're too self centered to think about how their actions will affect those around them.

    It won't change. But that doesn't mean I won't point at it and cry "foul!" whenever I see it happen, in hopes that perhaps just one person might see themselves... and decide to alter their behavior.

    This has nothing to do with dogs, specifically, to me. It's about people who won't see beyond their own tiny universe. Although if a dog owner hasn't done enough to train their dog to behave safely in society, then their dog might have to be removed from society.

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    Well, in some aspects we agree then. I think that some mean and aggressive breeds of dogs should be phased out. Read: not allowed to reproduce, not shot on the side of trail by a scared bike rider. I also believe that irresponsible owners should be held responsible for the actions of their aggressive dog. But I don't believe that it is right to blame the irresponsible actions of a few dog owners on the much larger population of responsible owners.

    What scares me more than biting dogs is the tone of rhetoric that some anti-dog people are using. To talk about carrying a gun and shooting dogs on the trail or purposely hitting them if they get in your way is almost sickening to me.

    I hope that it is just the relative anonymity that people feel they have on MTBR that allows them to express such crude ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    Wrong. All large breed dogs need exercise, especially off leash exercise. Sure it's not appropriate to have an unleashed dog in a variety of situations. But if you keep them on leash at all times you will have an unhealthy and unhappy dog, whether you realizeit or not.
    Here's where you lose all credibility.

    Please state your source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Cool and in the middle. I'll remember that.
    I'm trying to picture how I would get to some dog food quickly enough when I'm out on a run. I'm not even sure where I would store it since I don't like having things bouncing around in my pockets. Where do you keep yours?
    I have a couple setups depending on where I'm going, but for running I have an Amphipod Micropack that runners use to carry gels etc. It's light, comfy, and fits on my running shorts with no belt. Bulk treats at Petco or Grocery stores are pretty cheap. Don't get treats that are too small to handle quickly and keep your fingers out of the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by hydrogeek
    Sorry guys and gals, do we really need to carry dog treats, assess our emotional state to match a dogs reaction, etc. when we are out on the trail enjoying ourselves? Why is it my responsibility to accommodate someone that can't be bothered to prepare/train their pet properly? If they can't bother to spend the time preparing their pet, they need to leash it.
    Are we talking about what our own personal utopia would look like? I thought the question was what to do when you're standing in the woods looking at a potentially aggressive dog. I wish that no one was ever bothered by an off-leash dog. I wish they were all 100% obedient with owners who would keep them in view and never let them approach another person/dog without permission. That is not the case, and no matter how much all the MTBR forum members agree on that principle, tomorrow some of you will go riding and there will be off-leash dogs. If you want to change that, bother the local government to make more laws, or bother the local Law Enforcement to enforce existing laws. If that doesn't work, then you're still left with encountering these dogs. In that moment, no amount of principle is going to help you. In my experience socializing a rescued pit bull who was abused and very dog aggressive, food is THE best tool for diffusing the situation. Like I said before, it's obviously a cost/benefit as to how often you want to carry treats, and how often you see these dogs. Personally it seems ridiculous that someone could have bad encounters very often, but in Corvallis I often see zero people. I don't carry a gun either, but I'm pretty sure the chances of being attacked by a human are bigger. Most of these dog encounters don't sound that serious to me. I think they get blown out of proportion do to the earlier mentioned fear of animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzler
    I see what you're saying, but looking at the bigger picture, I don't think we should be exposing people to animals that require treats to redirect or defuse their aggression. Then again, perhaps my view is skewed by the fact that my brother's pitbull bit my wife and my four year old daughter right after assuring me that he was safe and well behaved.
    I don't see where "should" even factors into the situation unless you want to pass a new law and fund officers to enforce it. That sucks your brother's dog bit your wife and daughter. I've read that 70% of dog bites occur on the owners property. The fact that he's your brother changes the dynamic for sure, but did he pay the medical bills? Did you report it? Does he let that dog roam out of his control now that he knows it can be human-aggressive? I'm sure you've thought of this, but I would just ask him to put the dog up when you come over. I'd also be willing to ask my trainer about a good trainer close to you if you think he might be interested.

    FWIW the only dog I've personally known to be put down for biting humans was a Lab/Aussie Shepherd mix. Dude got him in college and named him after his best friend who had just died in a long-board accident. The roommates had a great time playing very aggressively with the dog. They especially liked to play tug-of-war using their pant legs. It was fun until he weighed 70 lbs and started biting kids. He bit a total of 4 (all children, all at a park on public property) and three of them needed stitches. Had he been a pit/rottie/etc. I guarantee he would not have made it past the first one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazloco
    Here's where you lose all credibility.

    Please state your source.

    Caz.
    Both personal experience and discussions with vets. I have literally owned and trained well over 500 dogs in my life. The majority of those were alaskan huskies, but I have also trained multiple labs for both hunting and home, a chesapeake,*some pointers, and a variety of little dogs. I also have multiple vet friends.
    *
    Virtually all large breed dogs were bred for some sort of work purpose, whether it be hunting, protection, herding, pulling, etc. All of these breeds have a lot of energy (some, like pointers, have way more than others) and need exercise to stay happy and well trained. Exercise is not a walk with a leash. Ideally, it would be what the dog was bred for--huskies should be pulling sleds, pointers should be roaming fields hunting, retrievers should be hunting and fetching, herding dogs should work in the field with sheep, cattle, etc. Even police/guard type dogs are typically most happy doing that kind of work. But most people don't buy a dog for the purpose it was bred, so we have to improvise. Getting a dog unleashed exercise where they run will make the dog calmer when it is at home, less likely to get overweight, and you will see a noticeable improvement in their mood. They also do it best on a schedule, every day around the same time, rather than just when you feel like taking them out or it is nice outside. Every dog that I have met that has a lazy owner that doesn't get them enough exercise has some sort of health problem, is fat (if they are fed too much) or overly hyper, and legitimately seems stir crazy.*
    *
    Outside off leash exercise isn't the only way. If you have a herding dog, they are great if you teach them skills courses and other things that give them mental and physical challenges. Then you don't have to take them to an off leash play area as much. But simply taking your dog for a walk on a leash is about as mentally good for them as me taking you for a mountain bike ride while leashed at my walking pace. Sure your outside and on your bike, but are you really going to be happy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild
    Both personal experience and discussions with vets. I have literally owned and trained well over 500 dogs in my life. The majority of those were alaskan huskies, but I have also trained multiple labs for both hunting and home, a chesapeake,*some pointers, and a variety of little dogs. I also have multiple vet friends.
    *
    Virtually all large breed dogs were bred for some sort of work purpose, whether it be hunting, protection, herding, pulling, etc. All of these breeds have a lot of energy (some, like pointers, have way more than others) and need exercise to stay happy and well trained. Exercise is not a walk with a leash. Ideally, it would be what the dog was bred for--huskies should be pulling sleds, pointers should be roaming fields hunting, retrievers should be hunting and fetching, herding dogs should work in the field with sheep, cattle, etc. Even police/guard type dogs are typically most happy doing that kind of work. But most people don't buy a dog for the purpose it was bred, so we have to improvise. Getting a dog unleashed exercise where they run will make the dog calmer when it is at home, less likely to get overweight, and you will see a noticeable improvement in their mood. They also do it best on a schedule, every day around the same time, rather than just when you feel like taking them out or it is nice outside. Every dog that I have met that has a lazy owner that doesn't get them enough exercise has some sort of health problem, is fat (if they are fed too much) or overly hyper, and legitimately seems stir crazy.*
    *
    Outside off leash exercise isn't the only way. If you have a herding dog, they are great if you teach them skills courses and other things that give them mental and physical challenges. Then you don't have to take them to an off leash play area as much. But simply taking your dog for a walk on a leash is about as mentally good for them as me taking you for a mountain bike ride while leashed at my walking pace. Sure your outside and on your bike, but are you really going to be happy?
    And from this you know that no large dog can ever be happy or healthy on a leash. (I'm sorry, I didn't read your response, I just assumed you just mentioned stuff like you have dogs and you watch the Dog Whisperer or something like that.)

    Oh, I once saw a large dog that was happy and healthy on a leash. I have no data to back this up. Well, it looked happy and I can only assume.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3
    "In my vagina two times he bite me... and he bite my labrador on his penis!" Dude that made my day for shizzle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    "In my vagina two times he bite me... and he bite my labrador on his penis!" Dude that made my day for shizzle.
    Just wait 'til mtbr finds out its filter doesn't catch dumbass, vagina or penis.

    This thread is bound to be a game changer.

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    P.S. When I logged onto this forum this morning the ad server tossed a "train your dog" spot into the leaderboard position. Just sayin'.
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    Obviously this is a touchy subject. It has been hard not to add my 2 cents.

    I'm a dog lover. I have owned lots of different breeds and am generally encouraging of anyone taking their pets out to enjoy outdoor activities. I don't even mind if I come up on dogs on the trail that are still in the "learning" stage and I'm required to get off the trail and yield to them. It is all part of the process.

    That being said, there are some breeds that I would not trust. Maybe it isn't right to stereo-type all Pitt Bulls, but you hear about them lashing out way too often for me to trust. I have never owned a truly aggressive dog, but did have a St. Bernard for three years in college. He was a well mannered pet, but VERY protective of me and my girlfriend. Unfortunately when I was away at college, he bit my girlfriend's cousin when she made a move too fast toward my girlfriend. It was very difficult, but I ended up having to put him to sleep after the incident. After that experience, I vowed to never own another dog from a known aggressive breed. In this situation I put 100% blame on the owner, I could not imagine putting a pit bull in this situation.

    Now I have two golden retrievers and try to take them hiking/biking whenever I can. I'm very responsible with them. I don't take them riding on the weekends when I know the trails are busy. I only take one dog at a time if I am by myself, I always carry a leash, treats, and yield to other trail users. I try to stick to directional trails (Sandy ridge is pretty good) to avoid head-on incidents. When I do take them to multi-use trails, I leash them any time we are on a climb just incase we meet any bikers coming down the hill. It pisses me off when others don't take the same precautions and courtesy with their pets. Honestly, it ruins it for those who are responsible and gives all dogs a bad name.

    This incident also worries me from another perspective. I can only imagine what would have happed if my dog and I would have come up on an aggressive Pit Bull on the trail. My Golden Retrier is not aggressive, but would certainately get between me and a charging animal. Even at 105lbs, my dog could be ripped to shreds by a pit bull if he tried to put up a fight. It may seem strange, but I'd rather be bit by a dog than have mine get killed by one.

    I do encourage legally carring a firearm. I always carry when I'm hiking, and almost all the time when I'm trail riding. Mostly for protection due to the high rate of break-ins that happen at places I like to ride like TSF. For those who don't like guns, I reccommend the Kimber Pepperblaster. It is cheap, accurate, and has two shots.

    However, there is almost no way you are going to pull a gun or pepper spray on a charging animal. If you are on a bike, it is your best weapon to put between yourself and the dog. If you are hiking, carry a walking stick.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrogeek
    Sorry guys and gals, do we really need to carry dog treats, assess our emotional state to match a dogs reaction, etc. when we are out on the trail enjoying ourselves? Why is it my responsibility to accommodate someone that can't be bothered to prepare/train their pet properly? If they can't bother to spend the time preparing their pet, they need to leash it.

    Again, I like animals, but if I need to carry something it would likely be pepper spray before dog treats. If I dose a charging dog with pepper spray I am more confident in it's success than holding out a treat in my hand.
    Most sensible post here. Mods, please close thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer
    ... Mods, please close thread.
    Least sensible post here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26
    I think that all dogs need to be off leash. The more socialized a dog is around people, other dogs, bikes, horses and everything else outdoors; the less likely they are going to be aggressive. Many owners keep there dogs in small fenced in pens in there yard or always on a leash regardless of where they are, this creates anger and aggressiveness in the dog. I've been taking my dog riding for years and now she is really good at it. When she was young she would jump in front of my bike but now she has learned what to do and not to do. Just like people, there is a learning curve for proper social behavior in a dogs.
    Well said and I could not agree more. Socializing a dog from a puppy is the single most important thing a dog owner can do in order to have a dog that does not react out of fear PERIOD! Unfortunately to many people have no buisiness owning a dog....how frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrogeek
    Sorry guys and gals, do we really need to carry dog treats, assess our emotional state to match a dogs reaction, etc. when we are out on the trail enjoying ourselves? Why is it my responsibility to accommodate someone that can't be bothered to prepare/train their pet properly? If they can't bother to spend the time preparing their pet, they need to leash it.

    Again, I like animals, but if I need to carry something it would likely be pepper spray before dog treats. If I dose a charging dog with pepper spray I am more confident in it's success than holding out a treat in my hand.
    Agreed.


    I haven't owned a dog in years but if they don't already, there should be a 'dog owners responsibility' class for people wanting to own dogs. Like a drivers and conceal weapon-carrying license. All three (Dog owner, vehicle driver, weapon-carrying) have specific safety-related responsibilities.

    And, giving the benefit of doubt; I think most dog owners know only about half of the laws regarding dogs. When I dug out my MTB last June I also got a copy of the latest drivers safety handbook from my DMV to update myself on bicycling laws in my state. Surprisingly I found a couple laws that were new to me, like doing a 'California Stop' at a stop sign. Also; after stopping at a stop light and seeing that the cross traffic is clear, a cyclist is allowed to proceed through the red light.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    Well said and I could not agree more. Socializing a dog from a puppy is the single most important thing a dog owner can do in order to have a dog that does not react out of fear PERIOD! Unfortunately to many people have no buisiness owning a dog....how frustrating.
    I disagree on your first sentence.

    However, you make very good points on the remaining .
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    I have to take issue with the "pit bull types" and phasing out "aggressive breeds" ignorance. Turn OFF your TV and read a book....please I beg you. The number one dog most likely to bite in the USA is Dachshund followed by a Chihuahua and Jack Russel takes third. Pit Bulls and other large "aggressive dogs" have a below average incidence of biting in the USA. Unfortunately we have become a society that believes and does everything our TV tells us. OK maybe that's exaggerated but it certainly has undue influence.

    Unfortunately morons are the most likely person to own a Stafford Shire Terrier aka "pit bull". Hence all the bad press. I grew up on a ranch and have owned and been around many many breeds of dogs. I can say with zero doubt that "pit bulls" are one of the most gentle, good natured, fun loving dogs I have come across. It frustrates me that a town as forward thinking as Bend or Portland (cough cough) turns out such rubbish of opinions about the issues this thread covers. And to any neurotic jackhole that is going to challenge my anecdotal "opinion" on "aggressive dogs" take a little time to research what breeds bite before type a bunch of nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    Well said and I could not agree more. Socializing a dog from a puppy is the single most important thing a dog owner can do in order to have a dog that does not react out of fear PERIOD! Unfortunately to many people have no buisiness owning a dog....how frustrating.

    Good point... but the time to "socialize" said dog is not on the trail.

  101. #101
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    These are two of the dynamic adds at the top of the page. I think the Internet is trying to tell us something.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    I have to take issue with the "pit bull types" and phasing out "aggressive breeds" ignorance. Turn OFF your TV and read a book....please I beg you. The number one dog most likely to bite in the USA is Dachshund followed by a Chihuahua and Jack Russel takes third. Pit Bulls and other large "aggressive dogs" have a below average incidence of biting in the USA. Unfortunately we have become a society that believes and does everything our TV tells us. OK maybe that's exaggerated but it certainly has undue influence.
    Without getting into the phasing out of aggressive breed discussion or even taking a position on which dogs are good vs. bad, I will add this: I deal with dog related / dog inflicted injuries on an all too regular basis. I agree that rat dogs such as Dachsund's and Chihuahua's have their fair share of involvement, but seldom do you ever really hear about it unless you go looking for statistics because the injuries they cause are generally not maiming (sp) or life threatening. While your statement that "Pit Bulls and other large "aggressive dogs" have a below average incidence of biting in the USA." may be factual - the level of damage they cause when they do bite is off the scale and that is factual, and thats why its in the public eye. I don't need to watch TV to be told whats good or bad.

    A bike related example: person on a three wheel adult bike riding down the street, has their rat dog on a leash running next to the bike....the leash is tied off on the seatpost of the bike ( I know...) They pass a home with a really large pitbull sitting on the porch, that yard has a 4 foot tall chain link fence. The pitbull sees the bike / dog combo riding by, leaps off the porch and jumps the fence easily. It goes after the rat dog, gets it in its mouth and starts ragdolling it, stops the bike cold. Then it really gets into it, digs its heals in and starts backing up towards its own yard with the dog in its mouth - pulling the three wheeler over with the person still hanging on screaming. Rider is on their back at this point still hanging on with the bike between them and the dog, but the dog is now dragging the entire rig accross the street. When it was done the pitbull pulled the bike/dog/person combo more than 20 feet. It only stopped when a neighbor came out and hit it over the head with a splitting maul handle, but it didn't release the dog until its owner came out and shot it. Two dogs dead and a seriously injured person. Unfortunately very true story and that one never did or will make the news.

  103. #103
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    I guess sometimes you have to be the butt of a joke to realize how ridiculous you sound. I've got a sense of humor and the dog humping thread is hilarious, despite the fact that a lot of it is at my expense. I guess I earned it. I really do hate the fact that we all have negative dog encounters. I hate a lot of things about the world. However, after all the hate the question still remains, what are you going to do about it? My anti-social engineer brain rifled through all logically possible solutions, and came up with the one that is not only proven effective, but also independent on any other human's participation. My thoughts were then supported by the fact that my mailman has a giant tub of dog treats on his dash board. He's friendly enough, but he's never offered my leashed dog a treat despite her tail wagging. Maybe he just hates pits, or maybe the treats are for houses he knows have mean dogs. I guess my own confirmation bias made me choose the latter. I do realize how absurd it sounds to people. Heck it sounds ridiculous to most dog owners.

    I also apologize if I ever seemed to be blaming the victim. A good friend works a a sex assault crisis center, and I'm all too familiar with how victims are often treated, not only by their peers but also by law enforcement. It did seem strange to me that she wanted to contact the owner. I can't think of a single scenario where the victim of a crime should contact the offender personally. That's why we have cops right? Had the OP said a report was filed, and that she was simply trying to identify the owner to tell animal control, I would not have asked those questions.

    Anyway, good luck with all your future dog encounters. I truly hope nothing terrible happens. This thread has also made me extremely grateful to live in Corvallis. Hope everyone is enjoying the sunshine.
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigdog
    ... I don't need to watch TV to be told whats good or bad.
    ...
    Quote of the year! I nearly considered changing the existing one in my sig to the one above, but... naw.

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    I moved to Bend about 8 months ago and really enjoy Phil Trail system. I've taken my Boxer with me about 10 times to get him a little exercise. He has never bitten anyone ever, but does sometimes get a "vibe" from certain people. About 9 out of 10 times people can not get away from his tongue he is so happy to see them, but every now and then he just decides to go funny and bark right in people's face. I feel absolutely terrible when he does that, and if he EVER even once snapped at someone, let alone actually contact, he would never see a public place again while not on a leash. Actually, I have never had a dog that has broken anyones skin so I don't for sure know how I would handle it, but I can say that if my dog full on bit someone I would probably put him down.

    The thought of one of my daughters getting bit by a dog while out on the trail makes my blood boil. If my Boxer bit a child, and the parent killed my dog right there(without any children around or anything like that) I would probably thank them.

    If a small toy dog bites someone or nips at their heels, and even breaks the skin, I don't think it's the absolute end of the world. The size of the dog does matter in my opinion with the "leash" you give him. If you have an aggressive dog that can do damage, and has ever shown that he/she would, don't let that dog off a leash in ANY public place.
    Bend, Oregon

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    I have to take issue with the "pit bull types" and phasing out "aggressive breeds" ignorance. Turn OFF your TV and read a book....please I beg you. The number one dog most likely to bite in the USA is Dachshund followed by a Chihuahua and Jack Russel takes third. Pit Bulls and other large "aggressive dogs" have a below average incidence of biting in the USA. Unfortunately we have become a society that believes and does everything our TV tells us. OK maybe that's exaggerated but it certainly has undue influence.

    Unfortunately morons are the most likely person to own a Stafford Shire Terrier aka "pit bull". Hence all the bad press. I grew up on a ranch and have owned and been around many many breeds of dogs. I can say with zero doubt that "pit bulls" are one of the most gentle, good natured, fun loving dogs I have come across. It frustrates me that a town as forward thinking as Bend or Portland (cough cough) turns out such rubbish of opinions about the issues this thread covers. And to any neurotic jackhole that is going to challenge my anecdotal "opinion" on "aggressive dogs" take a little time to research what breeds bite before type a bunch of nonsense
    I agree with what you are saying pretty much 100%. Unfortunately, the fact you noted about morons owning these potentially dangerous dogs, IS a problem.

    The bite is actually not the problem, as if a Chihuahua bites my daughter she would probably kick it a laugh. If any strong dog with teeth like a shark latched on to my daughter, it's gonna be a life changing bad day for everyone.
    Bend, Oregon

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    Sorry about the dog bite, but no one says anything along the lines of, "Why the HELL was she riding on the trails west of town this time of year?!"

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregon
    Sorry about the dog bite, but no one says anything along the lines of, "Why the HELL was she riding on the trails west of town this time of year?!"
    And why was ANYBODY on the trails at that time of year? (unless the the trails are snow covered and/or frozen)
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    I rode Phils about 3 weeks ago(maybe more) at about 10am, and even though the outside temp was 45F or so, the trail was still frozen except for maybe the top 1/4" is some places, and maybe 2 slightly deeper spots but no mud yet. Zero trail damage.
    Bend, Oregon

  110. #110
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    I was out running on Phil's a couple of weeks ago and saw some ruts. I know I'll somehow I'll get blamed for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I was out running on Phil's a couple of weeks ago and saw some ruts. I know I'll somehow I'll get blamed for them.
    Nat, why don't you just man up and take responsibility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigdog
    Without getting into the phasing out of aggressive breed discussion or even taking a position on which dogs are good vs. bad, I will add this: I deal with dog related / dog inflicted injuries on an all too regular basis. I agree that rat dogs such as Dachsund's and Chihuahua's have their fair share of involvement, but seldom do you ever really hear about it unless you go looking for statistics because the injuries they cause are generally not maiming (sp) or life threatening. While your statement that "Pit Bulls and other large "aggressive dogs" have a below average incidence of biting in the USA." may be factual - the level of damage they cause when they do bite is off the scale and that is factual, and thats why its in the public eye. I don't need to watch TV to be told whats good or bad.

    A bike related example: person on a three wheel adult bike riding down the street, has their rat dog on a leash running next to the bike....the leash is tied off on the seatpost of the bike ( I know...) They pass a home with a really large pitbull sitting on the porch, that yard has a 4 foot tall chain link fence. The pitbull sees the bike / dog combo riding by, leaps off the porch and jumps the fence easily. It goes after the rat dog, gets it in its mouth and starts ragdolling it, stops the bike cold. Then it really gets into it, digs its heals in and starts backing up towards its own yard with the dog in its mouth - pulling the three wheeler over with the person still hanging on screaming. Rider is on their back at this point still hanging on with the bike between them and the dog, but the dog is now dragging the entire rig accross the street. When it was done the pitbull pulled the bike/dog/person combo more than 20 feet. It only stopped when a neighbor came out and hit it over the head with a splitting maul handle, but it didn't release the dog until its owner came out and shot it. Two dogs dead and a seriously injured person. Unfortunately very true story and that one never did or will make the news.
    What you offer is anecdotal and your personal experience. Back to real world statistics concerning dog bites. Your theory of bites from "rat" dogs being insignificant is again ignorant. The reality is most bites( 85-95% depending on the study) happen to infants todddlers, and small children. Why? Because they crawl and/or are on ground level. Eye to eye contact is threatening behavior to dogs. If you think a bite from a Dachshound or Jack Russel causes no damage to infants or toddlers than you have zero buisiness speaking to the issue. Is this realitive to mountainbiking? Absolutely not.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren
    I agree with what you are saying pretty much 100%. Unfortunately, the fact you noted about morons owning these potentially dangerous dogs, IS a problem.

    The bite is actually not the problem, as if a Chihuahua bites my daughter she would probably kick it a laugh. If any strong dog with teeth like a shark latched on to my daughter, it's gonna be a life changing bad day for everyone.
    I assure you, if a Jack Russel bit your daughter there would be no laughing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    What you offer is anecdotal and your personal experience. Back to real world statistics concerning dog bites. Your theory of bites from "rat" dogs being insignificant is again ignorant. The reality is most bites( 85-95% depending on the study) happen to infants todddlers, and small children. Why? Because they crawl and/or are on ground level. Eye to eye contact is threatening behavior to dogs. If you think a bite from a Dachshound or Jack Russel causes no damage to infants or toddlers than you have zero buisiness speaking to the issue. Is this realitive to mountainbiking? Absolutely not.
    I call bullsh1t. Even if every Dachshound or terrier in the nation bites a toddler every day, this doesn't have any bearing on the acceptability (rather lack thereof) of the kind of big dog behavior that pigdog described.

    By the way, there's nothing wrong with anecdotal information so long as it is accurate. Come to think of it JC, the info you imparted was anectodal.

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    P.S. One more thing, JC. Your condescending style doesn't draw you any friends. More like flies.
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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    I assure you, if a Jack Russel bit your daughter there would be no laughing.
    No kidding I agree! I said strong dog with teeth like a shark, and I would put a JR in that category.
    Bend, Oregon

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC
    What you offer is anecdotal and your personal experience. Back to real world statistics concerning dog bites. Your theory of bites from "rat" dogs being insignificant is again ignorant. The reality is most bites( 85-95% depending on the study) happen to infants todddlers, and small children. Why? Because they crawl and/or are on ground level. Eye to eye contact is threatening behavior to dogs. If you think a bite from a Dachshound or Jack Russel causes no damage to infants or toddlers than you have zero buisiness speaking to the issue. Is this realitive to mountainbiking? Absolutely not.
    Who cares about "real world" statistics. Yes you are right, it is personal experience relative to mountain biking I'm contributing, and I thing others are too, as I see a much higher number of large dogs on the mountain bike trail, compared to Rat dogs. Rat dogs don't cover ground well so I don't expect to see them farther than half mile in if at all.

    That said I guess this thread is not about dogs dealing with themselves, but rather dogs biting people. Very different so I do agree with you that the post about a rat dog on the street is not really valid here.

    I'm trying to make it relative to mountain biking, specifically noting my experience on the exact trial system this incident happened. My daughter is 4, completely off training wheels, rocking the rear disk handbrake, and I have thought about getting her on the trail soon. I think that is very relative, especially if she is eye level with this same Pit that this thread is about. I think stats about Rat dogs compared to larger dogs and the frequency they bit people, is not relative to mountain biking, especially since you can usually just pick your feet up if one come running at you haha!
    Last edited by thuren; 02-21-2011 at 02:12 PM.
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    Hey SLinBend, has the dog owner come forward or been found yet? I'm curious for a follow-up (if there is one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren
    No kidding I agree! I said strong dog with teeth like a shark, and I would put a JR in that category.
    K...just to clarify JR's are one of the top three highest rated dogs to bite covered in the original post to which you were commenting.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren
    Who cares about "real world" statistics. Yes you are right, it is personal experience relative to mountain biking I'm contributing, and I thing others are too, as I see a much higher number of large dogs on the mountain bike trail, compared to Rat dogs. Rat dogs don't cover ground well so I don't expect to see them farther than half mile in if at all.

    That said I guess this thread is not about dogs dealing with themselves, but rather dogs biting people. Very different so I do agree with you that the post about a rat dog on the street is not really valid here.

    I'm trying to make it relative to mountain biking, specifically noting my experience on the exact trial system this incident happened. My daughter is 4, completely off training wheels, rocking the rear disk handbrake, and I have thought about getting her on the trail soon. I think that is very relative, especially if she is eye level with this same Pit that this thread is about. I think stats about Rat dogs compared to larger dogs and the frequency they bit people, is not relative to mountain biking, especially since you can usually just pick your feet up if one come running at you haha!
    I meant dog biting statistics were not relative to mountain biking per say. I appreciate that you were trying to relate your post to mountain biking, and we are way off topic relative to my post responding to your post responding to my post. Again Jack Russel's are one of the top biting dogs which is relevant. They are a very capable tenacious breed ( I love them) . No human will be lifting there leg out of the way if they are intent on biting you (not saying they would be). Sincere best luck with you and daughter. We live in a world with far to much irrational fear (which is what my original post was about), and it is unlikely you would have an issue concerning a dog on the trail. Bend is a grand place to raise children...Cheers

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    I call bullsh1t. Even if every Dachshound or terrier in the nation bites a toddler every day, this doesn't have any bearing on the acceptability (rather lack thereof) of the kind of big dog behavior that pigdog described.
    Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I couldn't agree with you more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    By the way, there's nothing wrong with anecdotal information so long as it is accurate. Come to think of it JC, the info you imparted was anectodal.
    More amazing insight as I stated that very fact in my original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    P.S. One more thing, JC. Your condescending style doesn't draw you any friends. More like flies.
    Listen we live in a increasingly contentious world. Where public opinion, policies, and laws (which affect me directly) are increasingly influenced by missinformation, opinion, and mal intent. If someone chooses to add to this in a public forum then perhaps they open themselves up to condescension. For the record my intention is never to offend baring the latter. Concerning flies Sparticus perhaps it"s time you pull your head out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I wonder if she was too rattled (having just been bitten by a pit bull) to get all of that info immediately?
    My Girlfriend and I were both bitten by dogs one day while WALKING a trail. Neither of us were too rattled to know to contact the police or get the owners info.

    The owner happily gave us his number and everything so.... thank God we didn't have to get the cops involved. That's the last possible person I would call. (I would rather beat their ass than call the cops myself)

    Sorry that you were bit by the way. That sucks. I've got a nice scar where the dog pulled out some of the flesh and skin behind my knee.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyName1sMud
    My Girlfriend and I were both bitten by dogs one day while WALKING a trail. Neither of us were too rattled to know to contact the police or get the owners info.

    The owner happily gave us his number and everything so.... thank God we didn't have to get the cops involved. That's the last possible person I would call. (I would rather beat their ass than call the cops myself)

    Sorry that you were bit by the way. That sucks. I've got a nice scar where the dog pulled out some of the flesh and skin behind my knee.
    Wait -- it's my understanding that statistically speaking dog bites only happen to me. I read it here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Wait -- it's my understanding that statistically speaking dog bites only happen to me. I read it here.


    I'm just saying man....

    Yes it was stupid for the dog to be off the leash.
    Yes it was stupid to not get the info of the owner when they are already in front of you.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyName1sMud
    ... I've got a nice scar where the dog pulled out some of the flesh and skin behind my knee.
    But how could you have been bitten behind the knee by a dachshound? Unless you're very short? I don't get it.

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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    But how could you have been bitten behind the knee by a dachshound? Unless you're very short? I don't get it.

    --sParty
    it was a dachshound in the body of a "big head" pit bull.

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    I was malled in the face by a dog when I was a kid. It really really messed up my perception of the world. I used to feel safe and just tralala around like a free little kid should. But after that, I was scared to even take walks. So YES. If a dog is a problem, put it down.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by curtains
    I was malled in the face by a dog when I was a kid. It really really messed up my perception of the world. I used to feel safe and just tralala around like a free little kid should. But after that, I was scared to even take walks. So YES. If a dog is a problem, put it down.
    I could not agree more. I was mauled in the face and the head at age 1.5. I don't remember it, but it was our family dog. My parents acted swiftly and gave the dog to a farm where it lived for many years. Either find a solution like another home or put the dog down. The risk is not worth it. Most importantly, get a dog that suits your situation, personality, and lifestyle. Also get DOG TRAINING.
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    I had to leave this thread before coming back to post here.

    Anyone, ANYONE, who defends or attempts to deflect the reality of the nature of a dog who bites needs therapy.

    I was walking with my 2yo daughters hand in mine on a public walkway. A Yellow lab was barking so I stopped and questioned the owner. She insisted her dog is very friendly and that it was tied up. I proceeded down the path on her word. The dog lept out and grabbed my daughters face. She has permenant damage to her lip where the dog tore it off. I can not describe the feeling of having that happen when holding your daughters hand. The dog was tied but it's lead was long enough for it to cross the path!

    A "pet" permenantly scarred my daughters face. There are no excuses for that. The fact that people crash on bikes, OD on drugs, crash cars or otherwise are hurt is completely irrellevant to the fact that someone, in my case my daughter, is injured by an out of control dog. Arguing that you are in control of your dog when it is off leash works until your dog decides not to listen to you.

    A dog that threatens bodily harm deserves severe punishment. A dog that attacks needs to die. If you think otherwise don't let your dog cross my path and threaten me or my family and friends.

    Signed an owner of three highly trained working labs.
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  129. #129
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    Rotweiller Attack

    Here you go.
    My neighbor's Rotweiller ran 50 yards across my yard and bit me in the back of the leg. No barking, no warning, didn't see it coming at all.



    Had to go to the ER and the owner was supposed to quarantine the dog for ten days. Saw the dog today chasing the UPS driver.

  130. #130
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    Fly Rod, that incident is screwed up. Please tell me there were repercussions for the dog and owner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Fly Rod, that incident is screwed up. Please tell me there were repercussions for the dog and owner.
    Pretty much the same as Ronbo's experience. Dog got 10 days quarentine. We spent almost two years fighting hte insurance company to get our expenses back. Our expenses totaled $6,000 and they kept coming up with excuses to not pay us. After a year and 1/2 I hired an attny to get it settled. She said they were trying to drag it past 2 years and then they would tell us to stuff it.

    She sent one letter with our expenses and added her fees. The insurance company settled in 3 days for $11,000 instead of $6,000. After that experience I no longer have any simpathy for insurance companies whining about lawyers!

    I love my dogs. But if one attacks a child it will be put down.
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  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rod
    ...
    Dog got 10 days quarentine.
    ...
    After that experience I no longer have any simpathy for insurance companies whining about lawyers!
    ...
    News flash: insurance companies ARE lawyers.

    Ten days quarantine for the dog. Hmmm... what does this accomplish? Does the dog emerge "rehabilitated?"

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    Carry a 410 pistol and pepper spray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankenstein406
    Carry a 410 pistol and pepper spray.
    Can I get an Amen ?!!
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  135. #135
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    Carry a 410 pistol and pepper spray.
    Halt and a .40 S&W.
    Funny thing is(not that funny I reckon) is that the owner of the dog who bit me is the postmaster at the local post office. After a "dangerous dog" report, the USPS won't deliver to your address. Ironic, don't ya think?
    Gotta say here, I've played around with at least four dogs since I've been bit; I like dogs, just not attack dogs.
    We have bigger worries than poorly trained dogs; how about a 100lb cougar? Come on up and ride at the Syncline, maybe it will run that way and leave us alone.

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    Yaw

    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613
    Halt and a .40 S&W.
    Funny thing is(not that funny I reckon) is that the owner of the dog who bit me is the postmaster at the local post office. After a "dangerous dog" report, the USPS won't deliver to your address. Ironic, don't ya think?
    Gotta say here, I've played around with at least four dogs since I've been bit; I like dogs, just not attack dogs.
    We have bigger worries than poorly trained dogs; how about a 100lb cougar? Come on up and ride at the Syncline, maybe it will run that way and leave us alone.
    Every cruised down the Syncline alone in the dark and noticed red eyes reflecting back at you? I used to do that ride after work in October and it was a bit scary but the attraction to mountain biking overrode my fears Besides, I was cruising....

  137. #137
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
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    Dec 1999
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    10,780

    Threatening post

    This guy is a troll trying to antagonize people.
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  138. #138
    Daniel the Dog
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    laughing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    This guy is a troll trying to antagonize people.
    Pot black my friend.

  139. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gorgedon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    Every cruised down the Syncline alone in the dark and noticed red eyes reflecting back at you? I used to do that ride after work in October and it was a bit scary but the attraction to mountain biking overrode my fears Besides, I was cruising....
    Good luck with that theory. Greg Herbold on meth is not fast enough to get past a cougar if it really wants him, it's just a question of what the cat feels like.

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