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  1. #1
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    Bend Trail Etiquette

    Been riding in Bend area periodically now for the last couple years and what the heck has happened trail etiquette? I remember coming across a few unfamiliar riders each ride in Phil's, but nothing has been as crazy as this past weekend on Maston. It must've been a dozen times this past weekend that we had approaching parties either ride 10 feet all the trail to pass or just not yield to climbing riders and shoulder past anyways. You've got some nice trails down there, but man, they ain't gonna last long if this trend keeps up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ski_adk View Post
    Been riding in Bend area periodically now for the last couple years and what the heck has happened trail etiquette? I remember coming across a few unfamiliar riders each ride in Phil's, but nothing has been as crazy as this past weekend on Maston. It must've been a dozen times this past weekend that we had approaching parties either ride 10 feet all the trail to pass or just not yield to climbing riders and shoulder past anyways. You've got some nice trails down there, but man, they ain't gonna last long if this trend keeps up.
    Good question, we have the same thing with drivers, agro and inconsiderate. Was never a problem going back 5-10 yrs, but it's a thing now.

    With the growth of Bend I'm guessing lots of newish riders and the fact that the weather has been agreeable as of late.

    I feel your pain....

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    Sometimes it is hard to tell which who is going uphill in Bend, those trails don't have real steep grades and are kind of rolling. I also think so many riders are like me and yield to the downhill rider (cause that is the way it should be) that maybe people are getting confused about who yields to who.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    Sometimes it is hard to tell which who is going uphill in Bend, those trails don't have real steep grades and are kind of rolling. I also think so many riders are like me and yield to the downhill rider (cause that is the way it should be) that maybe people are getting confused about who yields to who.
    That. There's legal right of way (up hill) and hoping everyone enjoys the good part (yielding to DH traffic), which is generally much appreciated. The DH rider just needs to be able to slow down if they need to and not expect it.

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    I just yield to everyone* on non-directional trails, and only ride the correct direction on directional trails. I've yielded to some pros in both directions on Mrazek in a single day as they go up and down and up and down and up...

    * Unless it's really wide. For example, I rode around someone on Tumalo Creek last fall, I was heading down and the other rider was heading up but ... that trail is 4ft wide, easy, rather flat, and... who cares anyway? I guess the other rider did based on the face I got. Meh.

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    I blame Californians, but seriously, an influx of newbies who don't get it causes too many failures to yield or running off traill and doing damage. I see it more on better known and more heavily used trails like Phil's I was at Horse Butte the week before last and everyone was good about yielding to uphill and staying on track. Maston is interesting for me because I always ride the loop clockwise unlike the majority.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    Sometimes it is hard to tell which who is going uphill in Bend, those trails don't have real steep grades and are kind of rolling. I also think so many riders are like me and yield to the downhill rider (cause that is the way it should be) that maybe people are getting confused about who yields to who.
    Last time I was at Phil's there were several riders coming downhill that did'nt even slow dow let alone yield. If people keep yielding to the downhill riders they'll think it's the norm. It's a helluva lot easier to resume downhill than to restart on a steep climb.

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    I find it is easier to resume on the uphill. When you resume on the downhill you have to usually pedal back uphill a ways so you can get speed to resume the fun. But I also end up yielding to pretty much everyone it seems like. Popular MTB specific places really should switch how the yield works. Shoot a place as crowded as Phils every trail should probably be directional.

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    The history of yielding to the uphill traffic goes back a long time, to before there were bicycles. It's based on the common sense reality that it's easier, (sometimes just - possible) for the downhill traffic to restart from a stop than someone (think - horse and wagon for instance) going uphill in very steep terrain. Apply this logic to trails where it's very steep and it still makes sense, no matter the means of transport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflaps View Post
    Apply this logic to trails where it's very steep and it still makes sense, no matter the means of transport.
    So it shouldn't apply to Bend is what you are saying? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    I find it is easier to resume on the uphill.
    Others might not feel the same or have a similar experience to yours. When terrain is steep, I certainly don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    When you resume on the downhill you have to usually pedal back uphill a ways so you can get speed to resume the fun.
    I believe you used the word "you" when you meant to use the word "I" as (I assume) you were speaking about your own experience. Again, yours seems to be different than mine. Whenever I'm starting on a downhill, I just go.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    But I also end up yielding to pretty much everyone it seems like. Popular MTB specific places really should switch how the yield works. Shoot a place as crowded as Phils every trail should probably be directional.
    Pretty much agree with you on this. At mountain bike specific riding areas I usually yield to downhill riders because I like to keep my run going so I want to let others do likewise. But it's a slippery slope, no pun intended. I don't want to alter the trail etiquette status quo and inconsistent behavior indeed erodes it.

    I hope all trail users -- hikers, equestrians, mountain bikers, e-bikers, off-road skateboarders and future trail users yet to be imagined will continue to respect the trail etiquette rule that's been in place for eons -- uphill traffic has the right of way. Not every (any) other trail user group is sensitive to (nor should have to be sensitive to) the preferences of mountain bikers or any other individual trail user group. Nor should they should have to. If we don't continue to respect the uphill right of way rule -- as everyone else does -- then we're the problem.
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    I see the other side of the coin no doubt. The only thing I disagree on is I don't think there is anything wrong with me stepping aside for the downhill rider when I am going uphill, I know who is supposed to yield to who and if I choose to step off the trail to let others by when I technically have the right-of-way that is not causing anyone harm. Also when passing other user groups uphill-downhill is irrelevant anyway as MTB is technically supposed to yield to everyone. Though generally when on popular trails I notice most hikers step way off to the side and give an enthusiastic come on through wave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    I see the other side of the coin no doubt. The only thing I disagree on is I don't think there is anything wrong with me stepping aside for the downhill rider when I am going uphill, I know who is supposed to yield to who and if I choose to step off the trail to let others by when I technically have the right-of-way that is not causing anyone harm. Also when passing other user groups uphill-downhill is irrelevant anyway as MTB is technically supposed to yield to everyone. Though generally when on popular trails I notice most hikers step way off to the side and give an enthusiastic come on through wave.
    I'm with you. To the point of admitting I'm confused about the "yield to" triangle that has mountain bikers yielding to everyone. I mean I get that on flat trails but wonder if the downhill-yields-to-uphill thing supersedes the right-of-way-triangle rule. What if I'm having the most amazing ride of my life cleaning some impossible to climb steep uphill section and a hiker feels they'd prefer to play their you-yield-to-me trump card? So far no one ever has; I'll continue to hope they won't.

    I often feel a tinge of guilt when sharing trails with hikers and they step off to let me through, though I've pretty much gotten over this. I never expect them to step off nor ask them to, usually they just do it and I always thank them profusely, smile and offer some friendly comment like what a nice trail it is or whatever. I'm grateful that they step off and somehow want them to know that I know that they have the right of way and that they are being gracious. But the encounter typically doesn't go that deep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    I find it is easier to resume on the uphill. When you resume on the downhill you have to usually pedal back uphill a ways so you can get speed to resume the fun. But I also end up yielding to pretty much everyone it seems like. Popular MTB specific places really should switch how the yield works. Shoot a place as crowded as Phils every trail should probably be directional.
    This^^^ Is partially the reason I don't ride in Bend anymore.

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    IMO the right of way issue has gotten worse with the rise in popularity of shuttling riders to the higher elevations. I'm old school and enjoy the climb up as much as the ride down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    IMO the right of way issue has gotten worse with the rise in popularity of shuttling riders to the higher elevations. I'm old school and enjoy the climb up as much as the ride down.
    Nah, I blame Strava and fully suspended long travel bikes.

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    I'm not a Strava user. Is it easy to check if the majority of rides shared are downhill?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    IMO the right of way issue has gotten worse with the rise in popularity of shuttling riders to the higher elevations. I'm old school and enjoy the climb up as much as the ride down.
    Yep, the majority of the issues I've had involve trains of people not yielding on rental bikes. It's pretty clear they were shuttled. Not sure if its a "I paid for this so I'm not yielding" mentality or ignorance, but it is annoying and is becoming more frequent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euro-trash View Post
    Yep, the majority of the issues I've had involve trains of people not yielding on rental bikes. It's pretty clear they were shuttled. Not sure if its a "I paid for this so I'm not yielding" mentality or ignorance, but it is annoying and is becoming more frequent.
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  20. #20
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    I will always yield to the downhill rider because from my perspective and experience it's easier and safer for the uphill rider to yield, regardless if it's "harder" to get going again. Again it's a safer choice.

    It doesn't take a whole lot of speed where crashing into someone becomes a dangerous possibility and I've personally seen a rider go to the hospital in a frickn' helicopter because they hit each other so hard.

    With all the discussions when this topic comes up why does no one consider that? Do people not really understand what can happen when 230lbs hits you at 22mph?

    And personally, Funner to Storm King to road NF-41 should definitely be one way down with a whole new one way climbing trail going up to Wanoga.
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    I rode Funner and Tidlywinks the other day for the first time and was shocked they are 2 way trails. That is just asking for trouble. Do people in Bend not know how to climb logging roads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmountain View Post
    I will always yield to the downhill rider because from my perspective and experience it's easier and safer for the uphill rider to yield, regardless if it's "harder" to get going again. Again it's a safer choice.


    Safer still is requiring people riding downhill to be able to control their bike and slow appropriately. Encouraging people to ride like a jackass knowing others will yield is not the answer. And no, my comments are not because I can't haul butt on downhills. But it's reserved for times when I know there's no one else coming.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmountain View Post
    I will always yield to the downhill rider because from my perspective and experience it's easier and safer for the uphill rider to yield, regardless if it's "harder" to get going again. Again it's a safer choice.
    Sincere thanks for your generosity -- personally I appreciate the gesture whenever anyone yields their uphill right of way to me while I'm descending. I do likewise whenever I see downhill traffic far enough in advance to get off the trail and I'm not trying to clean a challenging climb which would amount to a significant achievement for me.

    Operative word being "and" in the paragraph above. As the uphill rider, it's my prerogative to hold my line and more often than not I choose to not undermine established trail etiquette. Undermining established trail etiquette is something I don't do lightly.

    It's different at mountain bike only riding areas. At such places it's always DH's right of way, IMO. But not on multi-use trails, even in the case of mountain bike to mountain bike encounters. Personally I perceive any descending rider who arbitrarily abuses the uphill right of way rule as a selfish taker and I'm not interested in becoming one of those.

    Not calling anyone in this discussion is a selfish taker, BTW.
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  24. #24
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    This topic came up on the BendTrails FB group the other day. Got a little testy!

    ROW is not the LAW so everyone has their fairly subjective opinion.

    some things to think about with Bend:

    1. We have way more riders than most other places, and more tourists. Like 100k visitors PER DAY in the summer.

    2. We have very few good downhills.

    3. We similarly have very few good climbs. If you like to climb trails you end up on trails trails that people like going down.

    4. Funner, Tiddly and Tylers are all downhill type trails but none started as such. The USFS says we are at max capacity so no new climbing trails will be allowed. Kinda stupid I suppose.

    5. Tiddly wasn't always a DH flow trail. It was changed. COTA sort of got in trouble for that, but it's ultimately adding something Bend needed.

    6. People here don't like climbing roads. They are spoiled. We just added a trail paralleling the tiny bit of 300 road from whoops to phils for basically no reason.

    7. We don't have much side slope or steep terrain which would prohibit someone from riding off trail. In fact since they have been clearing and burning, almost nothing prohibits someone from riding around someone else. Ride off trail in a place like oakridge and you might die. Nobody rides up trails in Oakridge anyhow.

    8. Most people have no clue that riding around someone is bad form.

    9. the OP mentioned maston. Riding off trail in maston is kinda stupid. It's deep sand. As such it will settle back to normal ultimately and little lasting damage will occur. Hey - It's maston... Can it get much worse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmountain View Post
    I will always yield to the downhill rider because from my perspective and experience it's easier and safer for the uphill rider to yield, regardless if it's "harder" to get going again. Again it's a safer choice.

    It doesn't take a whole lot of speed where crashing into someone becomes a dangerous possibility and I've personally seen a rider go to the hospital in a frickn' helicopter because they hit each other so hard.

    With all the discussions when this topic comes up why does no one consider that? Do people not really understand what can happen when 230lbs hits you at 22mph?

    And personally, Funner to Storm King to road NF-41 should definitely be one way down with a whole new one way climbing trail going up to Wanoga.
    Oh, itís a consideration! Thatís why we all ask that everyone ride in control. Personally I abide by a collective yielding; which is situational and courteous.....for the most part. Upper Whoops is a trail that I ride cautiously. When I inevitably encounter climbing traffic I try not to skid to a stop, and I pull over with a greeting and a smile. It is my experience that most climbing riders want to yield to downhill traffic, but this is not an assumption Iím going to make.
    Lower Storm King does not ride like a downhill track. Line of sight on this trail goes on for days. The business side of Funner has an uphill bypass. There are a few sections where two-way traffic is annoying (the little slalom section comes to mind), but again line of site on this section is quite clear
    Last edited by Costigan; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:46 AM. Reason: grammer

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR Chensley View Post
    I rode Funner and Tidlywinks the other day for the first time and was shocked they are 2 way trails. That is just asking for trouble. Do people in Bend not know how to climb logging roads?
    Only the new, the obstinately old , or technologically challenged climb Tiddlywinks. There are simple ways to access that trail. 4613 is a 15 minute slog.......and beats the shit out of climbing Tiddlywinks.

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    Doh! Number 6 pisses me off. What a pointless waste of resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euro-trash View Post
    Safer still is requiring people riding downhill to be able to control their bike and slow appropriately. Encouraging people to ride like a jackass knowing others will yield is not the answer. And no, my comments are not because I can't haul butt on downhills. But it's reserved for times when I know there's no one else coming.

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    I totally expected a reply(s) like this even though I didn't and do not advocate people riding like jackasses but nice try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    This topic came up on the BendTrails FB group the other day. Got a little testy!
    I can imagine it did! People don't like change even if it's for the better. I remember the uproar when Phil's went one-way.

    6. People here don't like climbing roads. They are spoiled. We just added a trail paralleling the tiny bit of 300 road from whoops to phils for basically no reason.

    Oh yes, big time. Bend is the only trail system in Oregon where I encounter this.

    That said, almost all encounters I have in Bend are nice and positive but there hasn't been a single trip where there isn't at least one person acting like an entitled idiot even when I HAVE yielded on the descent (because yes, I do that).

    Anyway, everyone should do their best to try and be smart and make safe choices, it's a ton better to enjoy riding the next weekend vs. trying to relearn the alphabet. Hence I will still yield to someone in a descent and I will still yield to someone uphill by being aware and making the appropriate choice for the situation.

    I do still believe the safer choice leans more to the uphill rider yielding vs. the descender but again, situational and depending on that particular section of trail. If I'm descending and the person climbing yields to me, then I'm going to continue and I say thanks as I pass.

    Be a smart rider and have fun.
    Last edited by jmountain; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:22 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Yielding isn't hard. Yielding doesn't ruin the ride. Yielding doesn't turn a great descent into something less than a great descent.

    IMO, people make more of the fact they needed to slow down or [GASP] stop for 10 seconds during their ride than common sense would indicate was reasonable.

    It isn't a big deal. It isn't even a small deal. It shouldn't be a deal at all, IMO.

    How someone can get their shorts in a bunch over yielding (even if they are yielding when they shouldn't have to) is beyond me.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladmo View Post
    Yielding isn't hard. Yielding doesn't ruin the ride. Yielding doesn't turn a great descent into something less than a great descent.

    IMO, people make more of the fact they needed to slow down or [GASP] stop for 10 seconds during their ride than common sense would indicate was reasonable.

    It isn't a big deal. It isn't even a small deal. It shouldn't be a deal at all, IMO.

    How someone can get their shorts in a bunch over yielding (even if they are yielding when they shouldn't have to) is beyond me.
    See post #16 wherein Strava is mentioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    See post #16 wherein Strava is mentioned.
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    My post is limited to yielding. People riding beyond their braking ability to stop around blind turns and/or otherwise putting others at risk via their riding choices is another topic, which rightly is something to get upset about, IMO.

    But not the basic yielding controversy.

    Peace to all on the trails.

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    There is climbing in Bend? If I am climbing Falls Creek in SW Wa. I will not yield for anything. You think that you can restart on the lower section I want to see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    6. People here don't like climbing roads. They are spoiled. We just added a trail paralleling the tiny bit of 300 road from whoops to phils for basically no reason.
    That trail is fun, though, for what it is. And it crosses what I'm pretty sure are a couple of mountain beaver burrows, which is a thing when I first heard about it sounded made-up. Kind of like cyclocross, or single-speeds, or people forgetting to have fun while they're riding bikes in the forest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    There is climbing in Bend? If I am climbing Falls Creek in SW Wa. I will not yield for anything. You think that you can restart on the lower section I want to see it.
    Right?!

    And how about those rooty/rocky step-ups on the couple miles leading up to the horse camp?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    See post #16 wherein Strava is mentioned.
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    dont ruin my 1043rd place on the climb bruh

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    I haven't ridden in Bend for a while, but is there any signage describing trail etiquette besides the yield triangle? Are rental shops saying anything when they rent bikes? Bend is always going to have a lot of rookies and tourists. It's not really fair to expect them to know the unwritten rules. Grumbling and complaining might be cathartic, but it doesn't fix anything.

  38. #38
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    I'm from "outta town" and rode Bend area trails for the first time. Great trails and didnt encounter any negative ettiquet compared to what Ive seen going on of late around my region. Although there was a couple riders we encountered climbing an obvious dh directional trail that even the locals I was riding with were like "wtf were those guys doing heading up that?" Oh well I yielded, called out the count on riders behind like I always do.😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrasher_s View Post
    I haven't ridden in Bend for a while, but is there any signage describing trail etiquette besides the yield triangle? Are rental shops saying anything when they rent bikes? Bend is always going to have a lot of rookies and tourists. It's not really fair to expect them to know the unwritten rules. Grumbling and complaining might be cathartic, but it doesn't fix anything.
    There are big signs at the trail head about Bend's "Trail Love" etiquette. There are smaller Trail Love stickers on trail markers through the network with details. Big shops have posters and signs. There are videos online. Bendtrails.org talks about it. Other websites also discuss it. So it is all over the place.

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