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  1. #601
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    What's the standard size stem on the 2019/2020 Oiz? The FSA Slk stem.

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  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    What's the standard size stem on the 2019/2020 Oiz? The FSA Slk stem.

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    31.8 and Bottom of the geometry page.

    SIZE CRANK STEM HANDLEBAR
    S-27 170 60 740
    S-29 170 60 740
    M-29 175 70 740
    L-29 175 70 740
    XL-29 175 90 740

  3. #603
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    From the manual, page 4 :

    https://www.orbea.com/downloads/prod...2020-EN-ES.pdf

    Squidlock unlocks the full performance of the FOX DPS shocks, which allow you to choose from three position -Open, Medium and Firm- enabling the bike to conform to any terrain. With Squidlock you will be able to access that third middle position, enjoying the full potential of the DPS technology.

    At the same time, Squidlock allows you to access to an intermediate position on the compression settings of FOX forks with GRIP cartridge (Performance Series).

    FOX forks with FIT4 cartridge (Factory Series) will have 2 positions available (Firm and Open), but you will be able to tune the Open position compression setting with the black dial on top of the right leg.

    If in the description of your FOX fork with FIT4 cartridge (Factory Series) it specifies “2Pos”, it will mean that when Squid-lock is in its middle position (DPS shock intermediate compression setting), it will mean that your fork will be kept in the Open mode, but you will be able to adjust the compression setting manually with the black dial.

  4. #604
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    Got my new Orbea Oiz M30 a couple of days ago and I rode it for the first time today. I'm really impressed by it, super fast bike and handles very well.
    My previous bike was a Radon hardtail of 2013, the Orbea is in a different league.

    Since there seem to be a lot of discussions about shock and fork I wanted to share mine.

    Shock: DZB7
    2020, FLOAT DPS, P-SE, A, Remote Up, PTU, Evol SV, Rebound Reverse, Orbea, Oiz, 190, 40, 0.2 Spacer, DCL, DRM, CMF, No Logo

    Fork: DPS8
    2020 Performance Series 32 FLOAT Grip REM PTU
    2020, 32, A, FLOAT SC, 29in, P-S, 100, Grip, Remote, Psh-Unlk, (10pm CP), Matte Blk, No Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    From the manual, page 4 :

    https://www.orbea.com/downloads/prod...2020-EN-ES.pdf

    Squidlock unlocks the full performance of the FOX DPS shocks, which allow you to choose from three position -Open, Medium and Firm- enabling the bike to conform to any terrain. With Squidlock you will be able to access that third middle position, enjoying the full potential of the DPS technology.

    At the same time, Squidlock allows you to access to an intermediate position on the compression settings of FOX forks with GRIP cartridge (Performance Series).

    FOX forks with FIT4 cartridge (Factory Series) will have 2 positions available (Firm and Open), but you will be able to tune the Open position compression setting with the black dial on top of the right leg.

    If in the description of your FOX fork with FIT4 cartridge (Factory Series) it specifies “2Pos”, it will mean that when Squid-lock is in its middle position (DPS shock intermediate compression setting), it will mean that your fork will be kept in the Open mode, but you will be able to adjust the compression setting manually with the black dial.
    Yep.

    My 34 SC is 2-position.

    My '19 Fox DPS only has two positions though.

    Poor advertising from Orbea, it's entirely misleading.

    I'm not hugely bothered, as I pretty much assumed that would be the case - and the integrated lever is far better than the horrible fox one. It's actually much nicer than the Scott Spark 3-pos lever.

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  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    ...far better than the horrible fox one...
    I like the fox lever quite a bit actually, it is smaller and works way better than the Rockshox Remote X Loc Full Sprint on my last bike (much harder to push).
    I just wish the fox remote didn't have the integrated clamp band to give a little more mounting flexibility.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by HyperSprite View Post
    I like the fox lever quite a bit actually, it is smaller and works way better than the Rockshox Remote X Loc Full Sprint on my last bike (much harder to push).
    I just wish the fox remote didn't have the integrated clamp band to give a little more mounting flexibility.
    You could hacksaw it off, and then mount to a SRAM clamp.

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  8. #608
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    What is everyone doing for a frame bag? Ideally looking for something that fits inside the top of the front triangle.

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  9. #609
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    Hey

    One question?
    Can you mount Magura MT8 brakes on 2019 Orbea Oiz?

    Thx

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpus.iuris. View Post
    Hey

    One question?
    Can you mount Magura MT8 brakes on 2019 Orbea Oiz?

    Thx
    It looks like it should, the flatmount is one of the selling points for the caliper.

    I only discovered how close the rear brake mounts recently, they put the caliper paper thin close to the rear chainstay!

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  11. #611
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    Has anyone had to adjust the chain guide? Mine seems to be off.

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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Has anyone had to adjust the chain guide? Mine seems to be off.

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    Weird. That almost looks like a non-boost chainring/chainset.

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  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Weird. That almost looks like a non-boost chainring/chainset.

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    It came on the bike. I noticed the guide had worked loose so tightened everything back up and that's how it fit. Possibly missing a shim somewhere?

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  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    It came on the bike. I noticed the guide had worked loose so tightened everything back up and that's how it fit. Possibly missing a shim somewhere?

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    I tried a non-boost chainring for a short time and it looked liked your picture. My guide didn't have a shim or spacer. With a boost chainring, the guide is fairly centered. I don't think a guide is needed. I took mine off and made a plastic plug to cover the exposed hole.

  15. #615
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    It's fairly easy, but you will need one or two (depending on width) very small washers to space out the guide from the frame. I think mine came with 2 very small ones.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlechnow View Post
    It's fairly easy, but you will need one or two (depending on width) very small washers to space out the guide from the frame. I think mine came with 2 very small ones.
    Where do they sit? On the screw or on the insert part into the frame? I'm not unfamiliar with guides and shimming but the built in part of this one is a new twist.

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  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Where do they sit? On the screw or on the insert part into the frame? I'm not unfamiliar with guides and shimming but the built in part of this one is a new twist.

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    Page 12
    https://www.orbea.com/us-en/support/...Z-OMR-2019-EN/

    I swapped out my XT Crank for a RaceFace Crank and the chainguide was close but not exactly centered. Swapped out the spacer that was in there with 2 or 3 #6 Washers from Lowes. Worked perfect. You might have to pull the crank to get the guide on and off. And as someone pointed out earlier in this thread don't take screw #4 out, it's kind of pain to get back in.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by riding29 View Post
    Page 12
    https://www.orbea.com/us-en/support/...Z-OMR-2019-EN/

    I swapped out my XT Crank for a RaceFace Crank and the chainguide was close but not exactly centered. Swapped out the spacer that was in there with 2 or 3 #6 Washers from Lowes. Worked perfect. You might have to pull the crank to get the guide on and off. And as someone pointed out earlier in this thread don't take screw #4 out, it's kind of pain to get back in.
    Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. I made the mistake of taking screw 4 out, ended up using a hex key to hold that nut while turning the bolt with another. I was able to get it off and on with everything attached by dropping the chain and rotating the assembly clockwise.

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  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. I made the mistake of taking screw 4 out, ended up using a hex key to hold that nut while turning the bolt with another. I was able to get it off and on with everything attached by dropping the chain and rotating the assembly clockwise.

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    Before you do anything, can you make sure your crank is actually tight? If it's wandered off the splines, you'll want to get it back on there.

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  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Before you do anything, can you make sure your crank is actually tight? If it's wandered off the splines, you'll want to get it back on there.

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    It's the shims that the Blue Paper references. I thought it was odd that I had none. I have a few laying around from an MRP for my Rallon that should do the trick.

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  21. #621
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    It took one large and two small shims from the MRP kit and all is well.

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  22. #622
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    Does anyone know if the 2020 non-tr M10 comes with squidlock + dropper remote? I already have a dropper, and thought it would be rad to add it when I need it without buying another squidlock or 2x lever.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksanman View Post
    Does anyone know if the 2020 non-tr M10 comes with squidlock + dropper remote? I already have a dropper, and thought it would be rad to add it when I need it without buying another squidlock or 2x lever.
    Given that a non-dropper Oiz doesn't even come with the extra cable pass through for the dropper (just the installed blanking plate), I would assume it would come with the squidlock version without the dropper lever but I have no proof.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksanman View Post
    Does anyone know if the 2020 non-tr M10 comes with squidlock + dropper remote? I already have a dropper, and thought it would be rad to add it when I need it without buying another squidlock or 2x lever.
    You’d have to buy the other version of squidlock (with remote) or a separate dropper remote. There was a post earlier in this thread or in the squidlock thread that confirmed that models that don’t come with a dropper come with the squidlock version that is for lockout only.

  25. #625
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    Hi,

    I'm just about ready to buy an OIZ frame and I have a few questions and ideas you guys might be able to help with. I'm buying the frame by itself which only comes with the 190x40mm XC tuned shock. However my build will be more TR style (dropper, 120mm fork, etc).

    My main issue is that I loathe remote lockout systems and almost always run my shocks full-open even for KOM hunting. I've already pedaled around on a TR build in my size and validated that it's got enough anti squat that it will be open for 99% of my riding.

    My initial thought was to simply buy an aftermarket Fox 190x45mm shock but the only one I can find is 972-01-432 which has an LV eyelet/aircan (bigger and the SV the bike ships with) and I assume linear-ish valving. I'm not too considered with the linear valving but I am concerned about clearance and the increased air chamber size impact on kinematics. E.g. If it will be too hard to tune to my liking.

    I've already contacted Fox and Orbea about this and Fox said they'd be willing to rebuild the existing shock as a 3 pos eyelet, which I will very likely do at some point, but I think I would like to have the option of running the bike in "trail" mode with my own 45mm stroke shock and put the 40mm XC tuned shock in for racing and KOM attempts. e.g. Keep two shocks; one rebuilt from the stock XC tune to remove the remote-lockout, and one aftermarket LV aircan for marathon days.

    So here are my questions:

    1. Can a 3-pos non-remote-lockout LV EVOL aircan/eyelet shock fit into a XL OIZ frame (even if backwards)?
    2. What size are the bushings for an OIZ (I can't find the actual bushings required in the blue paper)?
    3. Has anyone ever experimented with a rockshox options?

    Some other info that might help:
    I'm 6'2", 170-180lbs, going to get the XL size. And I have a big travel bike for my more "extreme" activity. this is my go fast bike and will replace my hardtail, which I simply can't ride anymore (need rear sus).

    Cheers.

    PS: My build will be white with black logo and a orange 34SC fork. Sort of like VDP's canyon lux.

  26. #626
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    Manitou McLeod. Boom. Done.

    I run one on my Oiz. Read through this thread if you need more info.
    by Silentfoe
    I'm satisfied knowing that what I wear during my "day" job makes me more of a man than you'll ever be.

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
    Hi,

    I'm just about ready to buy an OIZ frame and I have a few questions and ideas you guys might be able to help with. I'm buying the frame by itself which only comes with the 190x40mm XC tuned shock. However my build will be more TR style (dropper, 120mm fork, etc).

    My main issue is that I loathe remote lockout systems and almost always run my shocks full-open even for KOM hunting. I've already pedaled around on a TR build in my size and validated that it's got enough anti squat that it will be open for 99% of my riding.

    My initial thought was to simply buy an aftermarket Fox 190x45mm shock but the only one I can find is 972-01-432 which has an LV eyelet/aircan (bigger and the SV the bike ships with) and I assume linear-ish valving. I'm not too considered with the linear valving but I am concerned about clearance and the increased air chamber size impact on kinematics. E.g. If it will be too hard to tune to my liking.

    I've already contacted Fox and Orbea about this and Fox said they'd be willing to rebuild the existing shock as a 3 pos eyelet, which I will very likely do at some point, but I think I would like to have the option of running the bike in "trail" mode with my own 45mm stroke shock and put the 40mm XC tuned shock in for racing and KOM attempts. e.g. Keep two shocks; one rebuilt from the stock XC tune to remove the remote-lockout, and one aftermarket LV aircan for marathon days.

    So here are my questions:

    1. Can a 3-pos non-remote-lockout LV EVOL aircan/eyelet shock fit into a XL OIZ frame (even if backwards)?
    2. What size are the bushings for an OIZ (I can't find the actual bushings required in the blue paper)?
    3. Has anyone ever experimented with a rockshox options?

    Some other info that might help:
    I'm 6'2", 170-180lbs, going to get the XL size. And I have a big travel bike for my more "extreme" activity. this is my go fast bike and will replace my hardtail, which I simply can't ride anymore (need rear sus).

    Cheers.

    PS: My build will be white with black logo and a orange 34SC fork. Sort of like VDP's canyon lux.
    You're not going to be bothered swapping shocks, even if it sounds like a nice idea. So just get the shock that's right for the majority of your riding. Which sounds like getting the XC shock reshimmed to the tr length by Fox.

    Personally, I'd ride the current shock until it needs a service, and then get it reshimmed at the same time. It's the best value option, and the bike isn't going to be massively different in XC or TR shock mode. Most of the difference comes from the slightly slacker HA, and slightly higher stack from the 120 fork.

    The remote is actually a really brilliant idea for an XC bike like the OIZ, it really changes the behaviour on flat climbs.

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  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    You're not going to be bothered swapping shocks, even if it sounds like a nice idea. So just get the shock that's right for the majority of your riding. Which sounds like getting the XC shock reshimmed to the tr length by Fox.

    Personally, I'd ride the current shock until it needs a service, and then get it reshimmed at the same time. It's the best value option, and the bike isn't going to be massively different in XC or TR shock mode. Most of the difference comes from the slightly slacker HA, and slightly higher stack from the 120 fork.

    The remote is actually a really brilliant idea for an XC bike like the OIZ, it really changes the behaviour on flat climbs.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
    The best value option is a $288 McLeod. Now he has two shocks like he wants.

    One that pedals great which can be left open all the time with 4 on the fly settings, and his original XC shock he can race with or sell with the frame if he gets rid of it.

    Sending stuff to Fox to change it is downtime and expensive. Also lowers the value of his frame when it's time to sell.
    by Silentfoe
    I'm satisfied knowing that what I wear during my "day" job makes me more of a man than you'll ever be.

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    The best value option is a $288 McLeod. Now he has two shocks like he wants.

    One that pedals great which can be left open all the time with 4 on the fly settings, and his original XC shock he can race with or sell with the frame if he gets rid of it.

    Sending stuff to Fox to change it is downtime and expensive. Also lowers the value of his frame when it's time to sell.
    Here in the UK it would be about £150 to get the shock changed. And I could send it Monday, and have it back Thursday.

    I can't see how it would devalue the frame, he'd have a TR frame instead of an XC frame then.

    I've been down the same road of having two shocks for different types of riding, and it's just an extra faff to swap them over - even if it's dead easy on the Oiz.

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlechnow View Post

    The bike will gain a little weight in the near future. I have a 9point8 Fall Line R 150mm dropper coming next week. I also plan on replacing the QR that came with the 34 SC with a bolt on axle, so that will offset the weight gain by about 40 grams.
    I'm curious what the weight is with the fall line R installed and how it has been performing for you. I'm looking at a very similar build on my just-ordered Oiz frame. My short list for droppers are the fall line R 150mm, KS LEV CI 175mm and one up v2 180mm.

    Also, pics of the dropper installed would be cool to see.

  31. #631
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    Update on my frame purchase. Ordered a MYO build through my local shop (Meridian Cycles) who were really helpful. We'll send the XC tuned shock the frame comes with into Fox when it arrives for conversion to standard 3 position lockout eyelet. It also looks like the frame probably has clearance for a LV eyelet/aircan, so I'll probably do another test fitting once I send the XC shock to fox and if it looks safe buy the EVOL LV shock for the 45mm trail option.

    Regarding the shock swap. You'd have to know me but I promise you it's something I'll actually do. Lol.

    If the LV eyelet doesn't work or is too tight I'll definitely consider the Mcleod; thanks for the tip!

    Here is what it should look like..

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
    I'm curious what the weight is with the fall line R installed and how it has been performing for you. I'm looking at a very similar build on my just-ordered Oiz frame. My short list for droppers are the fall line R 150mm, KS LEV CI 175mm and one up v2 180mm.

    Also, pics of the dropper installed would be cool to see.
    I'll take a picture tonight. I have a M10R TR with a 150mm FallLine R, Formula R1Rs, Deity Cockpit with carbon bar, and Invisiframe, everything else is stock and it's a little over 25lbs without pedals.

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  33. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
    I'm curious what the weight is with the fall line R installed and how it has been performing for you. I'm looking at a very similar build on my just-ordered Oiz frame. My short list for droppers are the fall line R 150mm, KS LEV CI 175mm and one up v2 180mm.

    Also, pics of the dropper installed would be cool to see.
    Saddle height of 30.5" as it sits. FallLine R 150mm.

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  34. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
    I'm curious what the weight is with the fall line R installed and how it has been performing for you. I'm looking at a very similar build on my just-ordered Oiz frame. My short list for droppers are the fall line R 150mm, KS LEV CI 175mm and one up v2 180mm.

    Also, pics of the dropper installed would be cool to see.
    I've got the 150mm Fall Line R since June and it's been flawless. I'm using it with the X-fusion bat remote tucked in behind the fox remote. In retrospect, I could have gone 175mm but this has worked very well for me so I'm not sure it matters.

    My favorite feature is the head. The tilt and fore/aft are separate adjustments so I can move the seat forward or backwards without having to worry I've thrown off the angle or vice versa.

    Note: if you buy the dropper, get an extra seal and some of their special lube at the same time. I haven't needed either yet but I like to be prepared and shipping on those separately was 4 x the price of the order.

    For reference the frame is a large and wear a 34" inseam. The FSA post that came with it was at the min depth line with the seat in the same height.

    New Oiz-20190809_155454.jpgNew Oiz-20190524_091619-2-.jpgNew Oiz-20190623_103728_hdr.jpg

  35. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
    I'm curious what the weight is with the fall line R installed and how it has been performing for you. I'm looking at a very similar build on my just-ordered Oiz frame. My short list for droppers are the fall line R 150mm, KS LEV CI 175mm and one up v2 180mm.

    Also, pics of the dropper installed would be cool to see.
    My 150mm Fall Line R dropper is 441g without the actuator. Based on what someone else posted here, the actuator is probably about 8g. New Oiz-img_20191030_164332.jpg

    My bike complete, ready to roll with pedals, computer mount, 2 bottle cages, saddle bag mount and 2.35 and 2.25 Vittoria Mezcals is right at 23.5 lbs.
    New Oiz-img_20191030_165441.jpg

    Saddle down and up on a XL frame with a 830mm center of BB to saddle rail height.

    New Oiz-img_20191030_170518.jpg

    New Oiz-img_20191030_170533.jpg

    Dropper has been good so far. I had a little issue with it being a little fussy in the cold at an event I did that was about 32 degrees Fahrenheit at the start. The issue was it didn't want to stay down or up. It was migrating over time. I emailed support at 9point8 and they instructed me to move the t-bar down a little. I did that, but haven't had the occasion to ride it again in the cold yet. In warmer temps it has been flawless and once it warmed up about 30 minutes into that event it was fine.

  36. #636
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    Awesome,

    Thanks for all the info on the fallline R guys!

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    Just got a 2020 Oiz frameset and have built up my new race rig. Really impressed by the frame. However, like some others I struggle a bit with the rear suspension set up.

    On another forum I read "hardtail like", "super firm", "lockout lie" and more like this. Well, "firm" is definitely firmer than "open" but it's more like a stiffer platform than like a lockout.

    Since I've already had to deal with faulty brand new Fox elements in the past I'm just wondering if the Oiz damper behaves as it should.

    What is your experience? Do you have 0% sag when in firm? No bounce at all when cruising along at higher cadence in the flats?

    Orbea speaks of a "low sag design" w/r to the Oiz. Not sure what that's supposed to mean but I get almost the same sag when in firm and open. Firm is - well - just firmer (what a statement ...).

    Would really appreciate to hear your experiences, talking suspension set ups is always sort of fuzzy.
    On my new 2020 Orbea Oiz with the remote lockout turned on the fork and rear shock is super stiff, as in you can push down on the fork or saddle and there isn't even a hint of the shocks moving.

    I tried a demo 2019 Orbea Oiz a few months ago and that was the same too, completely locked out.

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by HyperSprite View Post
    Water bottles on the seat tube of a Large frame
    Shown shortest to tallest, the last bottle for each is touching the shock so it's a no-go.

    Specialized Carbon Z cage lowest mounting position.
    Note that the Specialized Ribcage mounts at the same level.

    Attachment 1262989
    Attachment 1262991
    Attachment 1262987

    Arundel Other Sideloader Carbon Bottle Cage lowest mounting position.

    Attachment 1262985
    Attachment 1262997
    Attachment 1262995
    Attachment 1262983
    Attachment 1262993
    I'd just like to say thank you for posting these pictures. It's much appreciated as it saved me so much time working out what bottle cages I needed for my new size Large Orbea Oiz to carry double bottles.

    I went with Arundel Other bottle cages as I use the Specialized Purist bottles as in your bottom picture (yellow Deathride bottle in the photos above). To get the bottle to fit on the seat tube without touching the rear shock if you file down the Arundel water bottle cage mount holes slightly the cage can be dropped down another mm or two so the mouthpiece of the bottle clears the shock fully.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by HyperSprite View Post
    Water bottles on the seat tube of a Large frame
    Shown shortest to tallest, the last bottle for each is touching the shock so it's a no-go.

    Specialized Carbon Z cage lowest mounting position.
    Note that the Specialized Ribcage mounts at the same level.

    Attachment 1262989
    Attachment 1262991
    Attachment 1262987

    Arundel Other Sideloader Carbon Bottle Cage lowest mounting position.

    Attachment 1262985
    Attachment 1262997
    Attachment 1262995
    Attachment 1262983
    Attachment 1262993
    I'd try a Problem Solvers Bottle Cage Height Adjuster. It let me run two full-sized Fidlocks.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  40. #640
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    Here's a picture of my 2020 Size Large Orbea Oiz with the Arundel Other sideloader cages and a pair of Specialized 26oz (738ml) water bottles in the frame.

    This is with the modified bottle cage so that the water bottle on the seat tube doesn't hit the shock.

    I've also attached an indoor picture of the top tube of my bike. This is the stock colour scheme of gloss metallic graphite and matt black paint. The Oiz logo is picked out in metallic gold. You can't mix and match gloss and matt in the MYO colour configurator.

    I think this might be the same as tuckerjt07's Orbea Oiz? The frame has had a layer of IGL ceramic protective coating applied also which emphasises the shine a bit.

    https://iglcoatings.uk/ecocoat-bike/

    I was a bit unsure what it would look like as it was a case of buying it unseen. The website picture makes Orbea metallic graphite seem like "Audi graphite grey metallic" which is a metallic greyish silver. It's similar but the metallic graphite on my bike is actually a bit darker when you stand it next to an Audi for comparison. When you see it outside in natural daylight the bike is extremely dark unless there's a direct light on it. At first glance from a distance the whole bike looks murdered out, close to all black, and all you see are the gold kashima fork stanchions until you look closer, particularly as it has a black fork and there's a lot of black around the headtube at the front.

    The matt black parts are raised so you have two different levels of paint and a nice textured feel. Although it's called matt black it looks a lot more like satin black.

    It will be interesting to see how well the paint lasts. The 2019 demo bike I had to try (the matt blue and red colour scheme) had some really bad paint chips in its finish with white primer showing through.


    New Oiz-2020_orbea_oiz_bottles.jpgNew Oiz-2020_orbea_oiz_top_tube.jpg
    Last edited by WR304; 11-13-2019 at 01:26 PM.

  41. #641
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    The current Orbea Oiz frame uses a PF92 press fit bottom bracket.

    As stock my bike came with a Shimano press fit plastic bottom bracket which felt horrible, the bearings were super stiff. It would maybe have loosened up a little with use but if I'm stuck with a press fit bottom bracket my preference is for a thread together style bottom bracket. On my 2016 Specialized Epic I had a Praxis PF30 conversion bottom bracket which was brilliant and lasted really well.

    Praxis don't do a PF92 threaded model unfortunately so I've gone for a Wheels Manufacturing BB86/92 thread together angular contact BB for Shimano cranks (black) which is the correct version for an Orbea Oiz. The two parts of the bottom bracket are threaded together so that they are held tightly in place to stop creaking when riding.

    https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboa...nks-black.html

    New Oiz-bb86-out-ac.600px_2.jpg

    This picture shows the Wheels Manufacturing bottom bracket installed (without the bearing shields in place). The bearings feel nice, turning smoothly by hand.

    New Oiz-2020_orbea_oiz_wheels_manufacturing.jpg

    .

  42. #642
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    Should have just bought a BB Infinite and called it a day.
    by Silentfoe
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  43. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Should have just bought a BB Infinite and called it a day.
    I tried a BB Infinite bottom bracket several years ago on one of my Specialized Epics. The BB Infinite bottom brackets are one piece but don't have any kind of locking ring and push in from one side. At the time the instructions were to use a supplied retaining compound, rather than epoxy so the bottom bracket isn't actually glued in (it might have changed since then). The BB Infinite bottom bracket walked out of the frame after just a couple of rides, jamming the crank on the frame. To say I was unimpressed was an understatement.

    They're firmly in my boycott category which I'll never use again, right up there with SRAM brakes!

    Picture attached of the BB Infinite in my 2012 Epic after it walked out of the frame:

    New Oiz-2012_epic_bbinfinite_walked.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Here's a picture of my 2020 Size Large Orbea Oiz with the Arundel Other sideloader cages and a pair of Specialized 26oz (738ml) water bottles in the frame.

    This is with the modified bottle cage so that the water bottle on the seat tube doesn't hit the shock.

    I've also attached an indoor picture of the top tube of my bike. This is the stock colour scheme of gloss metallic graphite and matt black paint. The Oiz logo is picked out in metallic gold. You can't mix and match gloss and matt in the MYO colour configurator.

    I think this might be the same as tuckerjt07's Orbea Oiz? The frame has had a layer of IGL ceramic protective coating applied also which emphasises the shine a bit.

    https://iglcoatings.uk/ecocoat-bike/

    I was a bit unsure what it would look like as it was a case of buying it unseen. The website picture makes Orbea metallic graphite seem like "Audi graphite grey metallic" which is a metallic greyish silver. It's similar but the metallic graphite on my bike is actually a bit darker when you stand it next to an Audi for comparison. When you see it outside in natural daylight the bike is extremely dark unless there's a direct light on it. At first glance from a distance the whole bike looks murdered out, close to all black, and all you see are the gold kashima fork stanchions until you look closer, particularly as it has a black fork and there's a lot of black around the headtube at the front.

    The matt black parts are raised so you have two different levels of paint and a nice textured feel. Although it's called matt black it looks a lot more like satin black.

    It will be interesting to see how well the paint lasts. The 2019 demo bike I had to try (the matt blue and red colour scheme) had some really bad paint chips in its finish with white primer showing through.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep, here are some pics of mine.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Yep, here are some pics of mine.
    It looks smart with the TR 120mm travel upgrade kit and Fox 34 fork on there. Did the shop swap out all those parts on it from new for you as there's been a lot of changes from the stock bike there? I've spent many weeks looking closely at the previous pictures you've posted in the past trying to work out exactly what colour you had whilst waiting for my bike to arrive.

    Those pictures are like the ones I've taken where from some angles it looks like the bike is all black, and then the metallic grey shines through at other angles. It's quite an interesting paint finish to look at as it changes so much depending on the light it's in.

    Orbea have another grey that they call anthracite too. I've seen that on a gloss black/ anthracite Orbea Alma hardtail show bike in the shop. Although the Orbea anthracite looks similar to the Orbea metallic graphite grey on the website pictures the anthracite is actually quite a bit lighter I think.

    What's funny is that the head tube on an Orbea Oiz is really short at 100mm in the Large size. When you see pictures of an Orbea Oiz with a 20mm stack of spacers under the stem that's actually the same as something like a 2020 Specialized Epic with the stem slammed on the headset bearing! Mine is the same to get the position I had on my old bike all the spacers are under the stem.

    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles...alma-29-m-team

    Pictured below: Orbea Alma hardtail in the gloss black / anthracite colour scheme.

    New Oiz-orbea_alma_anthracite.jpg

  46. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    It looks smart with the TR 120mm travel upgrade kit and Fox 34 fork on there. Did the shop swap out all those parts on it from new for you as there's been a lot of changes from the stock bike there? I've spent many weeks looking closely at the previous pictures you've posted in the past trying to work out exactly what colour you had whilst waiting for my bike to arrive.

    Those pictures are like the ones I've taken where from some angles it looks like the bike is all black, and then the metallic grey shines through at other angles. It's quite an interesting paint finish to look at as it changes so much depending on the light it's in.

    Orbea have another grey that they call anthracite too. I've seen that on a gloss black/ anthracite Orbea Alma hardtail show bike in the shop. Although the Orbea anthracite looks similar to the Orbea metallic graphite grey on the website pictures the anthracite is actually quite a bit lighter I think.

    What's funny is that the head tube on an Orbea Oiz is really short at 100mm in the Large size. When you see pictures of an Orbea Oiz with a 20mm stack of spacers under the stem that's actually the same as something like a 2020 Specialized Epic with the stem slammed on the headset bearing! Mine is the same to get the position I had on my old bike all the spacers are under the stem.

    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles...alma-29-m-team

    Pictured below: Orbea Alma hardtail in the gloss black / anthracite colour scheme.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks, yeah several changes, 9Point8 FallLine R 150mm dropper, XTR bar clamp shifter, Formula R1R brakes and centerlock rotors, RaceFace Next R cranks (why not SLs aren't much lighter and I had two spare sets lying around) with a Cinch Power meter, Deity cockpit and Fidlock bottles/cages. I swapped most myself. I don't have a bearing press so they did BB for me.

    Mine also has a gloss Invisiframe on it so that makes the color a little different.

    Yeah, stack is short on the bike. I'll probably end up having to get a higher rise bar but going to try a few tweaks to see if I can make it work first. The cockpit is very similar to my Rallon and I would like to keep it that way.

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  47. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Thanks, yeah several changes, 9Point8 FallLine R 150mm dropper, XTR bar clamp shifter, Formula R1R brakes and centerlock rotors, RaceFace Next R cranks (why not SLs aren't much lighter and I had two spare sets lying around) with a Cinch Power meter, Deity cockpit and Fidlock bottles/cages. I swapped most myself. I don't have a bearing press so they did BB for me.

    Mine also has a gloss Invisiframe on it so that makes the color a little different.

    Yeah, stack is short on the bike. I'll probably end up having to get a higher rise bar but going to try a few tweaks to see if I can make it work first. The cockpit is very similar to my Rallon and I would like to keep it that way.
    I'm 6' tall approx with a 34" inside leg.

    What I did was to take all the measurements off my old bike, and then move the actual contact points across to the new one, S-Works carbon flat bars cut down to 720mm, 80mm -12 degree S-Works SL stem, Ergon GA3 grips and Specialized Power Mimic 143mm saddle. That makes it easy to replicate the position as there's no differing saddle lengths etc to allow for.

    To get the saddle far enough back behind the bottom bracket (the Orbea Oiz has a steeper 75 degree seat angle which shifts the saddle forwards compared to my old bike) I've had to use a 25mm layback FSA K-Force light seatpost with the saddle as far back as possible and even then the reach to the handlebar is 5mm shorter than it was on my old bike. The saddle to handlebar bar drop is 6cm, exactly the same as before, so I'm going to have to leave all the spacers in under the stem.

    It seems to be quite a small bike in relative terms. On Specialized I'd usually ride a Large and can squeeze onto a Medium at a push. For an Orbea Oiz Large is just at the limit and I could probably ride an XL without too much trouble.

    This is the Fox website for putting the shock codes in to find what suspension is on the bike:

    https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike

    My 2020 Orbea Oiz M-Team 100mm travel bike (early November 2019 delivery) is the same codes as Madskatingcows friend's bike referenced a few posts back

    Rear Shock Code: DZB5
    2019 Factory Series FLOAT
    2020_19, FLOAT DPS, F-S, K, Remote Up, PTU, Evol SV, Rebound Reverse, Orbea, Oiz, 190, 40, 0.2 Spacer, DCL, DRM, CMF, No Logo

    Fork Code: DPQ5
    2020 Factory Series 32 FLOAT FIT4 REM ADJ PTU
    2020, 32, K, FLOAT SC, 29in, F-S, 100, FIT4, Remote-Adj, Psh-Unlk, 2Pos, (10pm CP), Matte Blk, No Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE

    Using advanced science (pushing down on the saddle and bars and watching the o-ring movement on the shocks) The Fox Stepcast 32 100mm travel fork is only 2 position, open or closed: Squidlock: fully locked out, Position 1 Open, Position 2 Open

    The rear shock definitely seems to have 3 positions, due to the partial cable pull? When pushing down on the shock it's Squidlock: fully locked out, Position 1 partly open with some compression damping on, Position 2 full open with an extra 5mm of shock movement on the o-ring compared to Position 1

    Bear in mind this bike has zero actual miles on it. As always switching bikes has been overly complex as the custom crank I need for my paralysed left leg was made specifically for a 2016 Specialized Epic and has clearance issues. I really wish my past self had had the foresight to stock up on parts that are now discontinued. It would have saved so much hassle now.

    Here's a picture of my bike outside to show what the paint looks like in daylight. Edit: This on a slightly sunnier day. The brighter the light is the more silver the bike appears, the darker it is the more black the bike appears.

    Pictured below: 2020 Orbea Oiz Metallic Graphite / Matt Black outdoors


    New Oiz-2020_orbea_oiz_outdoors3.jpg
    Last edited by WR304; 11-18-2019 at 04:26 PM.

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    My OIZ M10 Squidlock didn't came well tuned because the fork was kept closed on the middle position and not as it should.

    I was able to tune my Squidlock to have the Fork open in the middle and open positions tweaking the cable tension screws.
    Just a note that those screws are delicate and I managed to worn mine on the process.

    Just another question: Has anyone been able to compare the DT XR 1650 with the DT 1700, DT 1900 or DT 1501? In term of weight, rim and hub?

  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptormig View Post
    My OIZ M10 Squidlock didn't came well tuned because the fork was kept closed on the middle position and not as it should.

    I was able to tune my Squidlock to have the Fork open in the middle and open positions tweaking the cable tension screws.
    Just a note that those screws are delicate and I managed to worn mine on the process.
    You can fit inline barrel adjusters to the remote lockout cables. This allows you to adjust the cable tension without having to take the bike apart or damage the small screws. The suspension lockout cables are repurposed gear cables so you can use gear inline barrel adjusters:

    eg: Jagwire inline barrel adjusters
    https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/j...shift-housing/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zUhwdXj7wc

    The 2019 Orbea Oiz demo bike I tried a few months ago came with these already installed whilst my 2020 Orbea Oiz didn't.

  50. #650
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    Hi,
    I would like to buy new bike next year and still don´t know if OIZ will be good for me, because it is marked as XC. Currently I still rode on my Giant Trance 2013 26er (125mm/125mm), in the past it was marked as trail bike. I expecting that today bikes are forward and something with similar fork travel will behave same as my Trance in terrain + will be more capable in uphill and faster on straight terrain (road, hardpack). So if fork/shock travel is currently OK for me and I don´t need more, but still need same quality in downhill and expecting faster and uphill ride, will be OIZ in TR version good? Also i like if the bike is capable of bunnyhop over obstacles or ride of manual on the road or from stairs, just bike for fun.

    I looked on new Trance 29" or ride on Focus Jam in 27,5", maybe it´s due the size of tires 2,5", but it feels like a tank. I had demo version of OIZ M10 with 100mm fork for couple of minutes without dropper post so I cannot tested bunnyhop or how to move weight behind back wheel, but in the terrain I had pain in hands from the fork, maybe it was set to high for my weight or because it is just 100mm, don´t know. Before I returned a bike I tried it without seatpost for quick bunnyhop, but during jump it went fast on forward wheel maybe due inverse stem. But overall bike was maneuverable, fast and also I like the design.

    I ride mainly from home some +15 km on flat surface, than uphill +500m and finally downhill in rocky/roots terrain and rode back or just traveling around and discover. I need mainly advantage in the part of "approach".

    Thanks

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee-jays View Post
    Hi,
    I would like to buy new bike next year and still don´t know if OIZ will be good for me, because it is marked as XC. Currently I still rode on my Giant Trance 2013 26er (125mm/125mm), in the past it was marked as trail bike. I expecting that today bikes are forward and something with similar fork travel will behave same as my Trance in terrain + will be more capable in uphill and faster on straight terrain (road, hardpack). So if fork/shock travel is currently OK for me and I don´t need more, but still need same quality in downhill and expecting faster and uphill ride, will be OIZ in TR version good? Also i like if the bike is capable of bunnyhop over obstacles or ride of manual on the road or from stairs, just bike for fun.

    I looked on new Trance 29" or ride on Focus Jam in 27,5", maybe it´s due the size of tires 2,5", but it feels like a tank. I had demo version of OIZ M10 with 100mm fork for couple of minutes without dropper post so I cannot tested bunnyhop or how to move weight behind back wheel, but in the terrain I had pain in hands from the fork, maybe it was set to high for my weight or because it is just 100mm, don´t know. Before I returned a bike I tried it without seatpost for quick bunnyhop, but during jump it went fast on forward wheel maybe due inverse stem. But overall bike was maneuverable, fast and also I like the design.

    I ride mainly from home some +15 km on flat surface, than uphill +500m and finally downhill in rocky/roots terrain and rode back or just traveling around and discover. I need mainly advantage in the part of "approach".

    Thanks
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  52. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee-jays View Post

    I ride mainly from home some +15 km on flat surface, than uphill +500m and finally downhill in rocky/roots terrain and rode back or just traveling around and discover. I need mainly advantage in the part of "approach".

    Thanks
    Not sure an Oiz would be the right bike for you. The Oiz is designed as a race bike. And Race bikes sacrifice comfort for speed.

    If you are looking at the Orbea line up something like their new Occam might be a better fit for you.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Not sure an Oiz would be the right bike for you. The Oiz is designed as a race bike. And Race bikes sacrifice comfort for speed.

    If you are looking at the Orbea line up something like their new Occam might be a better fit for you.
    What about the Oiz TR?

    Enviado desde mi GM1900 mediante Tapatalk

  54. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fifo.M View Post
    What about the Oiz TR?

    Enviado desde mi GM1900 mediante Tapatalk
    The TR is a race bike. It's the exact same bike.

    The rear shock has 5mm more stroke. That's the only difference.

    If you buy the whole bike the fork has 20mm more travel.

    It's not a trail bike.
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  55. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee-jays View Post
    Hi,
    I would like to buy new bike next year and still don´t know if OIZ will be good for me, because it is marked as XC. Currently I still rode on my Giant Trance 2013 26er (125mm/125mm), in the past it was marked as trail bike. I expecting that today bikes are forward and something with similar fork travel will behave same as my Trance in terrain + will be more capable in uphill and faster on straight terrain (road, hardpack). So if fork/shock travel is currently OK for me and I don´t need more, but still need same quality in downhill and expecting faster and uphill ride, will be OIZ in TR version good? Also i like if the bike is capable of bunnyhop over obstacles or ride of manual on the road or from stairs, just bike for fun.

    I looked on new Trance 29" or ride on Focus Jam in 27,5", maybe it´s due the size of tires 2,5", but it feels like a tank. I had demo version of OIZ M10 with 100mm fork for couple of minutes without dropper post so I cannot tested bunnyhop or how to move weight behind back wheel, but in the terrain I had pain in hands from the fork, maybe it was set to high for my weight or because it is just 100mm, don´t know. Before I returned a bike I tried it without seatpost for quick bunnyhop, but during jump it went fast on forward wheel maybe due inverse stem. But overall bike was maneuverable, fast and also I like the design.

    I ride mainly from home some +15 km on flat surface, than uphill +500m and finally downhill in rocky/roots terrain and rode back or just traveling around and discover. I need mainly advantage in the part of "approach".

    Thanks
    That's quite an interesting comparison as your 2013 Giant Trance 125mm travel 26" wheel bike is what would have been called a trail bike in 2013 but when you compare it to a 2020 Orbea Oiz TR 120mm travel 29" bike the 2020 Orbea Oiz TR is following the current "longer, lower, slacker" fashion and is arguably more "trail" than your 2013 Giant. The 2020 Orbea Oiz TR has a 68 degree head angle compared to the 69.5 degree head angle of the Giant Trance and a Fox 34 fork whilst the 2013 Giant Trance came with a Fox 32 Talas fork.

    This geometry chart (all lengths in mm) shows a Giant Trance 2013 125mm travel 26" next to the geometry for a 2020 Orbea Oiz TR 120mm travel 29". This Giant Trance is the X1 model. I think this may be the bike you have as it has a 125mm travel fork whilst the others are 120mm?

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-giant-trance-2013-geometry.jpg

    Giant Trance 2013:
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/trance-x1-2013

    Orbea Oiz 2020
    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles...0-tr/geometry/

    There are a couple of changes from a 2013 bike to a 2020 bike that are worth looking at in a bit more detail.

    The first one that will have a major influence is the switch from 26" wheels to the larger 29" wheels. I personally really like 29" wheels, the way they hold their speed and roll over obstacles that a 26" wheel would hang up on is nice. It does change the feel of a bike though, taking more effort to lift the front of the bike up off the ground I think. A bike with smaller wheels tends to be a bit more easy to flick around. Your own preference on this is going to heavily influence what you think of a particular bike.

    The next one is that your 2013 Giant Trance is one of the last full suspension bikes to have a quick release axle for the rear wheel. I thought this was one of the most significant bike changes for making a handling improvement, particularly on a full suspension bike, as having a thru axle for the rear end stiffens the rear end up appreciably. Having a larger diameter stanchion Fox 34 fork on the front would help with stiffness over an older fork too. The switch to 148x12mm rear and 110x15mm front Boost spacing is a small improvement but I guess it adds a little on top.

    When you're looking at these two bikes there is one big difference between the 2013 Giant Trance and 2020 Orbea Oiz Tr to be aware of. That is the head tube length and achievable handlebar height. For a size large frame the Orbea Oiz head tube is 40mm shorter than the Giant Trance and the TR version comes with a low rise stem and flat bar. If you look at this picture of a stock 2013 Giant Trance X1 you can see that it came with a stack of spacers under the stem, a positive rise stem and a riser handlebar on top. By eye I reckon that the height from the bottom of the head tube to the handlebar grip could be as much as 100mm higher on a stock 2013 Giant Trance size Large compared to a stock 2020 Orbea Oiz TR size Large

    New Oiz-2013-giant-trance.jpg

    This is most likely where your comments about hand pain came from as with the handlebars being so much lower than you're used to a higher percentage of your body weight would be carried through your arms. You'd want to make sure that you could achieve your preferred handlebar height on an Orbea Oiz to not have too much of a forwards weight bias. If you can get a demo bike, and then put some higher riser bars on it to see how that feels I'd try that.

  56. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    The TR is a race bike. It's the exact same bike.

    The rear shock has 5mm more stroke. That's the only difference.

    If you buy the whole bike the fork has 20mm more travel.

    It's not a trail bike.
    It depends on how you want to use it or define "trail bike". The TR is geared more as a marathon bike so it's going to be more comfortable. The geometry is also a bit more relaxed and the bike is surprisingly composed in the air.

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  57. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    It depends on how you want to use it or define "trail bike". The TR is geared more as a marathon bike so it's going to be more comfortable. The geometry is also a bit more relaxed and the bike is surprisingly composed in the air.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the info. I have this bike. I know what it is.

    This versus an Orange Stage 4 (which I also have), Ibis Ripley, Evil Following are all the same travel bikes but are way more trail bike.

    Trying to make an XC bike a trail bike by upping the stroke 5mm and throwing a 120 fork on it (Epic Evo, Santa Cruz Blur, Norco Revolver) is a marketing effort by the manufacturers to try to sell more bikes.

    Plain and simple the Epic, Blur, OIZ (all of which I have owned in the last 18 months) are strictly XC race bikes.

    EDIT: Pole Evolink 110, COTIC FlareMax - definitely trail bikes
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  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Thanks for the info. I have this bike. I know what it is.

    This versus an Orange Stage 4 (which I also have), Ibis Ripley, Evil Following are all the same travel bikes but are way more trail bike.

    Trying to make an XC bike a trail bike by upping the stroke 5mm and throwing a 120 fork on it (Epic Evo, Santa Cruz Blur, Norco Revolver) is a marketing effort by the manufacturers to try to sell more bikes.

    Plain and simple the Epic, Blur, OIZ (all of which I have owned in the last 18 months) are strictly XC race bikes.

    EDIT: Pole Evolink 110, COTIC FlareMax - definitely trail bikes
    I own the bike as well. I've done a 30 mile race, actually first ride on the bike, and a forty miler. To me the bike is incredibly comfortable, poppy and fun. I love jumping the bike.

    No, in 120mm guise those bikes are more marathon bikes for the reason I mentioned, slacker geo and decreased fatigue due to more travel. It just so happens that by putting a 34 on them it allows them to be ridden just a tad harder.

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  59. #659
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    I still don't know what the hell a "trail" bike is, other than the fact that it's something I probably wouldn't want to race in an XC race.

    I've seen it used to refer to things from 120-170mm of travel. Which is, obviously a pretty wide spread in terms of designed uses, the crowd it would appeal to, etc.

    But the Oiz TR seems like something I'd have no problem using for all day "epics" (I hate that term, but like "trail bike", it seems to be something other people get) AND for pro XC racing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I still don't know what the hell a "trail" bike is, other than the fact that it's something I wouldn't want to race in an XC race.

    I've seen it used to refer to things from 120-170mm of travel. Which is, obviously a pretty wide spread in terms of designed uses, the crowd it would appeal to, etc.

    But the Oiz TR seems like something I'd have no problem using for all day "epics" (I hate that term, but like "trail bike", it seems to be something other people get) AND for pro XC racing.
    You could definitely use it for XCO type stuff but it's not a pure race bike in my opinion just like it depends on one's definition of if it's a trail bike.

    I use mine for all day rides and NICA practices. The other option is a 170/160 Rallon which I can but don't want to pedal all day or chase fast kids around on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    That's quite an interesting comparison as your 2013 Giant Trance 125mm travel 26" wheel bike is what would have been called a trail bike in 2013 but when you compare it to a 2020 Orbea Oiz TR 120mm travel 29" bike the 2020 Orbea Oiz TR is following the current...
    Thank you for analysis between bikes. I have version X2, geometry of size S and had version of OIZ M. I have wider bars 760mm with +15 rise. It is true that right now I compare bikes only by shock/fork travel, because with other parameters I am not so familiar and cannot imagine how much the change in value will change the feeling of the bike. As you mentioned advantages of modern bikes, this is reason why i think that today bike with 120mm will be more capable than my current bike.

    I Will try contact local dealer to test TR version if is possible. And can you compare this bike to Scoot spark (not RC) or Canyon Neuron?

    Abys Ripley is out if my budget, i am searching something till ~2600$, this is for example aluminium version of OIZ.

  62. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee-jays View Post
    Thank you for analysis between bikes. I have version X2, geometry of size S and had version of OIZ M. I have wider bars 760mm with +15 rise. It is true that right now I compare bikes only by shock/fork travel, because with other parameters I am not so familiar and cannot imagine how much the change in value will change the feeling of the bike. As you mentioned advantages of modern bikes, this is reason why i think that today bike with 120mm will be more capable than my current bike.

    I Will try contact local dealer to test TR version if is possible. And can you compare this bike to Scoot spark (not RC) or Canyon Neuron?

    Abys Ripley is out if my budget, i am searching something till ~2600$, this is for example aluminium version of OIZ.
    The difficulty with the extremes of bike sizing is that a lot of bikes tend to be designed around the middle sizes (Medium and Large) and then the Small and Extra Large frames are often a compromise in some way.

    When it comes to Size small frames there are two things you have to really pay attention to: Standover height and toe overlap with the front wheel. This is accentuated when it comes to a 29" wheel bike as the bigger wheels raise the bike higher and also reduce foot clearance when doing tight low speed turns whilst pedalling.

    Here is a chart looking at the geometry of the bikes you mentioned: Size Small Giant Trance 26" 2013, Size Small Orbea Oiz TR 29" 2020, Size Medium Orbea Oiz TR 29" 2020, Size Small Scott Spark 960 29" 2019, Size Small Canyon Neuron Al 7.0 29" 2019

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-giant-trance-2013-geometry2.jpg

    Scott Spark 960 29" 2019 Product Page:
    https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/p...icle=274636006

    Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 29" 2019 Product Page:
    https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mountai...ry-section-tab

    I've highlighted what I think are the notable parts of the geometry. I had a look at the size Medium Scott Spark 960 and Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 geometries and they're both big bikes in a medium, with a much longer top tube at 605mm compared to 584mm on your current bike. Your bike has a standover height of 724mm, the Medium Scott 960 standover height is a reasonable 746mm but the Medium Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 standover is a mighty 799mm!

    The Medium Scott Spark 960 might be doable if you were to run a really short stem but the Medium Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 frame is going to be too big.

    In the table above I used the Size Small versions of each bike, along with the Size Small and Medium Orbea Oiz TR 29". There's quite a bit of variation between the Size small frames. Based on your current bike a Size Small Orbea Oiz TR 29" toptube length is 17mm shorter making it too small and the Size Small Scott Spark 960 is 9mm shorter which is borderline but can be adjusted for. The Size Small Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 is 3mm shorter which isn't much at all so you'd be able to have a similar riding position on that as your current bike.

    The Size Medium Orbea Oiz TR 29" top tube length is 12mm longer than your current bike, which would probably be ok for fit as you could run a 1cm shorter stem than your current bike which would move the weight bias back slightly off the front wheel making it easier to lift. Based on current bike trends / fashion for shorter stems on mountain bikes this would be preferable over going with a shorter frame and putting a longer stem on.

    At 67.2 degrees for the Size Small Scott Spark 960 and 67.5 degrees for the Size Small Canyon Neuron AL 7.0 they both have slacker head angles than the 69.5 degrees of your Size Small Giant Trance 26" 2013. The Orbeas are somewhere inbetween at 68 degrees. The main benefit of a slacker head angle is that the bike will be more stable at speed in a straight line when descending. You can plow through rough ground without being thrown offline as easily. The tradeoff for this stability is that with a slack head angle the steering is going to be slower and less responsive at low speeds. If you do a lot of slow speed technical riding a slack head angle isn't necessarily an advantage. When climbing in particular a bike with a slack head angle can wander and be difficult to hold in a straight line.

    All the new bikes listed (Orbea, Scott and Canyon) have substantially shorter head tube lengths than the 2013 Giant Trance 2013. They all appear to come with a flat handlebar too. In order to get the handlebars at a similar height as your current bike they would all need the bars and probably stem replacing.

    Summary:

    Of the bikes you listed I think it would be worth test riding these sizes as they're most likely to fit, preferably with a riser bar fitted to raise the front end.

    Orbea Oiz TR 29" 2020 Size Medium
    Scott Spark 960 29" 2019 Size Small and also maybe Medium as there's a big jump between the two sizes
    Canyon Neuron Al 7.0 29" 2019 Size Small

  63. #663
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    As I'd typed out the spreadsheet already here is the geometry comparison between a Orbea Occam 29" and Orbea Oiz TR 29" for the Small and Medium sizes (Fox 34 140mm fork on Orbea Occam rather than the optional Fox 36mm 150mm upgrade option).

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-orbea-occam-geometry.jpg

    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles.../cat/occam-m10

    When you look at these two bikes side by side the Orbea Occam has a 66 degree head angle, 2 degrees less than the Orbea Oiz TR 29" and 20mm more suspension travel.

    It also has a significantly steeper seat tube angle at 77 degrees, 3 degrees steeper than the Orbea Oiz. This means that you'd typically be sitting further forwards over the bottom bracket on the Orbea Occam.

    Apart from that they're not as different as you'd think. The Orbea Occam has a longer wheelbase (due to the longer travel fork and slacker head angle) along with 5mm longer chainstays but that's about it. The top tube lengths, bottom bracket height, head tube heights are all similar. The Orbea Occam has a slightly taller head tube.

    The big differences are in the stem lengths that the bikes ship with (45mm length for both the Small and Medium Orbea Occam, 60mm Length Small, 70mm length Medium Orbea Oiz TR 29"), the rear suspension (both the specified shock and design) and then the component choices, in particular the larger size tyres with a grippier tread pattern that come with the Occam for added traction.

  64. #664
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    I changed my wheels, tires, dropper, drivetrain to axs and upgraded the remote on the 19 to the squidloc.
    I have used the fox remote and the twist lock remote from rockshox as well. The squidloc seems to work the best but havent given it a good testing yet. I am confident enough to sell the other two remotes though.

  65. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeranzin View Post
    Attachment 1253087
    Attachment 1253088

    Finally just about have everything together on this (dentist) XC build. Currently just a hair over 23 lbs, but I don't have the right crankset on it yet, and don't have the right front axle.

    Really excited about this build. Already feels good. Coming off a Yeti ASRc, this bike is basically what I was hoping Yeti would have released, since it feels like the perfect evolution of it. Also happy that I don't have to bust the HT out for bike days with 2 bottles.

    Also, really happy with the lockout. I know it's contentious, but it's awesome for the pavement training I do, and anything out of the saddle. Only have about 7 hrs on it so far, but will get the fork running right soon enough.
    Is that Lair O' The Bear?

  66. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2020 Orbea Oiz Orbea Occam Geometry.jpg 
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    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles.../cat/occam-m10

    When you look at these two bikes side by side the Orbea Occam has a 66 degree head angle, 2 degrees less than the Orbea Oiz TR 29" and 20mm more suspension travel.

    Apart from that they're not as different as you'd think. ...

    The big differences are in the stem lengths
    I think you mean to say, they are completely different bikes to each other, not sharing a single element of geometry or componentry.

  67. #667
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    It took 6 weeks but I've finally got my Orbea Oiz working!

    After taking this picture I went out for a few hours riding which was wet and muddy so that new bike feel is well and truly gone already!

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-ngeco-side-1.jpg

    Here's a side on picture of the bike as the final build. This is a Size Large 2020 Orbea Oiz M-Team 100mm travel which comes stock with a Fox 32 Stepcast fork, Shimano XTR M9100 and DT Swiss XRC1200 carbon wheels.

    Changes from stock:

    FSA K-Force light 25mm setback 400mm length 31.6mm seatpost
    Specialized Power Mimic Expert 143mm saddle
    Specialized S-Works 80mm stem
    Specialized S-Works flat bar cut to 720mm
    Ergon GA3 grips
    OneUp Components threaded top cap and EDC tool in fork steerer
    Cane Creek IS42 headset
    Specialized Ground Control 29x2.3" tyres
    Muc Off tubeless valves
    Wheels Manufacturing thread together bottom bracket
    Shimano Deore XT M8100 crank with Power2Max NGeco power meter spider and 34 tooth Wolftooth chainring*.

    Based on my hanging scales the complete bike (bottle cages, pedals, computer mount but no tools) weighs around 25.5lb. That's over 3lbs lighter than my 2016 Specialized Epic Expert, which considering I've carried over lots of parts from that bike, along with going from 2.1" to 2.3" width tyres is a nice improvement. The bike as it came out of the box was much lighter than that, under 23lbs I'd guess, but the custom crank adds unavoidable weight and the Ground Control tyres by themselves added 1lb of weight over the stock Maxxis tyres.

    It's quite a small bike. This is with the 80mm S-Works stem flipped to +12 degrees and a Stem mount fitting for the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt computer. The head tube of this bike is so much shorter than my old Epic that it ends up close to the same position.

    With the layback seatpost as far back as it will go and the positive rise stem I have a saddle handlebar drop of 4cm and the reach is 1cm shorter than I had on my old Epic. In order to fit the OneUp Components EDC tool there has to be some exposed steerer tube above the stem. There's hardly any available steerer length to play with on this bike to begin with so any future changes of riding position bar height are going to mean buying a new stem or bars with a different angle / rise each time.

    What held this bike up for so long was the Shimano Deore XT M8100 right hand crank with a Power2Max NGeco spider and Woftooth 34 tooth round chainring. That was supposed to be it, no modification needed, but Shimano have shortened the axle and slightly altered the splines on their newer cranksets. These things are never straightforwards.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-power2max-ngeco-4.jpg

    In order to make it work the steel crank axle was wire cut in half and then half a Shimano Deore Crank axle with the correct spline and length for a Shimano Deore Crank was attached to it. In this picture the piece of metal at the bottom shows the test cut. The axle has a reinforcing steel sleeve inside and a bolt through the middle so there's no way this is coming apart when riding!

    New Oiz-14-12-2019-power2max-ngeco-crank-1.jpg

    That means I can attach my custom swing crank, based on a Shimano Deore left hand crank, to the Shimano Deore XT right hand crank making the bike fully rideable at last. This lets my paralysed left leg just rest on the pedal and spin small circles whilst I do the actual pedalling with my right leg.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-power2max-ngeco-5.jpg

  68. #668
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    I've managed a few rides on the new bike now.

    The most notable thing about the 2020 Orbea Oiz compared to my old 2016 Specialized Epic is that the Orbea Oiz is super fast downhill. Open up the suspension to full active on the Orbea Oiz and everything just goes into serene and calm slow motion as the plush suspension irons out the bumps. There's loads of grip from the 29x2.3" Ground Control tyres and a nice handling balance between front and rear. Very impressive.

    On the Specialized Epic the rear Brain shock and brain fork platform was always active so on descents you'd still have the firm feel and reduced compression of the suspension no matter what. It was a completely different, much harsher, experience to ride.

    What this extra speed has shown up is the issue of the Shimano XTR M9100 Race brakes. The bike was writing cheques that the brakes couldn't cash. The M9100 Race brakes are a lightweight version with no servo wave cam in the lever and the tiniest brake pads you've ever seen. They had a nice lever feel and plenty of modulation, just no power when it came to actually slowing down or stopping. They'd be fine if you're a skilled rider who barely brakes for anything. That doesn't describe me unfortunately. They had to go.

    I've now replaced them with some Shimano Deore XT M8120 4 piston brakes which are probably total overkill. Something to note with the rear brake on the Orbea Oiz frame is that it has barely any clearance for the large rear brake caliper. It's possible to fit but the caliper touches the frame.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-xt-rear-brake-caliper-clearance.jpg

    Another brake related note, that only shows up when riding the bike, is that the angle of the rear brake caliper means that all the dirt off the front wheel is fired directly into the exposed back brake. This picture shows the dirt caked on the XTR M9100 rear brake caliper after a ride a few days ago:

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-xtr-rear-brake-caliper-dirt.jpg

    .

  69. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    ...On the Specialized Epic the rear Brain shock and brain fork platform was always active so on descents you'd still have the firm feel and reduced compression of the suspension no matter what. It was a completely different, much harsher, experience to ride...
    My friend has an S Works Epic and he's always telling me how he tightens it up for races and opens it up during the winter so it's more fun. I just tell him "My Oiz is fun all the time"... lol

  70. #670
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    @WR304, As most braking is done with the front, switch to a 2 piston rear caliper. Problem solved.
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  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    @WR304, As most braking is done with the front, switch to a 2 piston rear caliper. Problem solved.
    I got out for a few hours to try the new 4 piston brakes today. The first application was a bit cautious in case I fired myself over the bars but I needn't have worried. Despite lightly touching the frame the back brake was fine and performed normally with no vibration or juddering. It looks like I should be able to leave the 4 piston caliper on without needing to change it for a 2 piston caliper.

    I'd had the previous 2 piston Shimano Deore XT M8000 brakes with sintered pads and the same centrelock XTR RT-MT900 Ice Tech 180mm front/ 160mm rear brake rotors on my old bike, so this is a very similar setup. The XT M8120 4 piston brakes have basically the same initial feel and bite as the XT M8000 2 piston brakes, only requiring less hand pressure. I was right at home straight away and felt much more confident with the added braking power over the XTR M9100 brakes. The XT M8120 brakes need to be treated with respect but weren't overpowered.

    What's nice about a brake that takes less hand pressure is it isn't as fatiguing. On longer rides with a lot of repeated hard braking (notably a 6 hour death march I somehow got talked into round Herefordshire and the edge of the Forest of Dean last March where I was in bits by the end) I'd run into hand issues later on so hopefully this will help.

    I'm starting to get my head round the best way to use the remote lockouts now. On the Squidlock lever there are small 2mm allen key adjusters that let you adjust the cable tension which changes the feel of the Squidlock middle position on the rear shock. I've gone for a stiffer feel on the middle position, so that there's some suspension give but it still pedals reasonably well without as much bob as in full open. What I have this as at the moment is:

    Position 1: full lockout of fork and rear shock
    Position 2: fork full open and rear shock quite stiff
    Position 3: fork full open and rear shock full open

    That seems to work fairly well as it gives three distinct modes for the bike. The trick is to make sure you're not in fully locked out mode by mistake when you meant to have it softer, such as when starting a descent. That's bad as full lockout is just that and very firm!

    I've got a 34 tooth front chainring on at the moment but I'm probably going to need a 32 tooth chainring. On the steeper climbs (over 15% gradient) the bottom gear of 34x51 is a bit marginal. The last climb of the day today was quite steep. It's one where you have to be precise as there's a narrow good clean line where the water runs down the hill and then there is mud and rocks either side of that line to avoid. At 5mph I was having to concentrate a bit to make the bike's front wheel go exactly where I wanted it to. The front wheel felt a bit light and was wandering a little more than I've been used to. That's just practice though.

  72. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    I got out for a few hours to try the new 4 piston brakes today. The first application was a bit cautious in case I fired myself over the bars but I needn't have worried. Despite lightly touching the frame the back brake was fine and performed normally with no vibration or juddering. It looks like I should be able to leave the 4 piston caliper on without needing to change it for a 2 piston caliper.

    I'd had the previous 2 piston Shimano Deore XT M8000 brakes with sintered pads and the same centrelock XTR RT-MT900 Ice Tech 180mm front/ 160mm rear brake rotors on my old bike, so this is a very similar setup. The XT M8120 4 piston brakes have basically the same initial feel and bite as the XT M8000 2 piston brakes, only requiring less hand pressure. I was right at home straight away and felt much more confident with the added braking power over the XTR M9100 brakes. The XT M8120 brakes need to be treated with respect but weren't overpowered.

    What's nice about a brake that takes less hand pressure is it isn't as fatiguing. On longer rides with a lot of repeated hard braking (notably a 6 hour death march I somehow got talked into round Herefordshire and the edge of the Forest of Dean last March where I was in bits by the end) I'd run into hand issues later on so hopefully this will help.

    I'm starting to get my head round the best way to use the remote lockouts now. On the Squidlock lever there are small 2mm allen key adjusters that let you adjust the cable tension which changes the feel of the Squidlock middle position on the rear shock. I've gone for a stiffer feel on the middle position, so that there's some suspension give but it still pedals reasonably well without as much bob as in full open. What I have this as at the moment is:

    Position 1: full lockout of fork and rear shock
    Position 2: fork full open and rear shock quite stiff
    Position 3: fork full open and rear shock full open

    That seems to work fairly well as it gives three distinct modes for the bike. The trick is to make sure you're not in fully locked out mode by mistake when you meant to have it softer, such as when starting a descent. That's bad as full lockout is just that and very firm!

    I've got a 34 tooth front chainring on at the moment but I'm probably going to need a 32 tooth chainring. On the steeper climbs (over 15% gradient) the bottom gear of 34x51 is a bit marginal. The last climb of the day today was quite steep. It's one where you have to be precise as there's a narrow good clean line where the water runs down the hill and then there is mud and rocks either side of that line to avoid. At 5mph I was having to concentrate a bit to make the bike's front wheel go exactly where I wanted it to. The front wheel felt a bit light and was wandering a little more than I've been used to. That's just practice though.
    What is the 4 digit code on your shock?
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  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    What is the 4 digit code on your shock?
    2020 Orbea Oiz M-Team

    Rear Shock Code: DZB5
    2019 Factory Series FLOAT
    2020_19, FLOAT DPS, F-S, K, Remote Up, PTU, Evol SV, Rebound Reverse, Orbea, Oiz, 190, 40, 0.2 Spacer, DCL, DRM, CMF, No Logo

    Fork Code: DPQ5
    2020 Factory Series 32 FLOAT FIT4 REM ADJ PTU
    2020, 32, K, FLOAT SC, 29in, F-S, 100, FIT4, Remote-Adj, Psh-Unlk, 2Pos, (10pm CP), Matte Blk, No Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE

    It seems to be the tweaks to the cable tension adjust that changes the feel of the shock. There's a very distinct difference between the three settings on my rear shock using the Squidlock.

  74. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    2020 Orbea Oiz M-Team

    Rear Shock Code: DZB5
    2019 Factory Series FLOAT
    2020_19, FLOAT DPS, F-S, K, Remote Up, PTU, Evol SV, Rebound Reverse, Orbea, Oiz, 190, 40, 0.2 Spacer, DCL, DRM, CMF, No Logo

    Fork Code: DPQ5
    2020 Factory Series 32 FLOAT FIT4 REM ADJ PTU
    2020, 32, K, FLOAT SC, 29in, F-S, 100, FIT4, Remote-Adj, Psh-Unlk, 2Pos, (10pm CP), Matte Blk, No Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE

    It seems to be the tweaks to the cable tension adjust that changes the feel of the shock. There's a very distinct difference between the three settings on my rear shock using the Squidlock.
    Pure Marketing

    According to Fox, the shock is ON or OFF.

    Also, your shock, just like mine is a 2019. There is no middle position.
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  75. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Pure Marketing

    According to Fox, the shock is ON or OFF.

    Also, your shock, just like mine is a 2019. There is no middle position.
    Interesting, the Fox techs at both Outerbike and Epic Rides all said that it would give three different feels. The one at Epic Ride even recognized and called the Squidlock out by name.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  76. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Interesting, the Fox techs at both Outerbike and Epic Rides all said that it would give three different feels. The one at Epic Ride even recognized and called the Squidlock out by name.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Nonsense.

    Why did Fox stop using their old 3 position metal lockouts then?

    Now they only have the plastic 2 position PTU.

    Your shock is on or off, but believe whatever you want.

    https://cyclinic.com.au/blogs/suspen...-compatibility
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  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Nonsense.

    Why did Fox stop using their old 3 position metal lockouts then?

    Now they only have the plastic 2 position PTU.

    Your shock is on or off, but believe whatever you want.

    https://cyclinic.com.au/blogs/suspen...-compatibility
    Here is the question you need to answer. What is going on inside the shock to change its dampening characteristics?

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  78. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Here is the question you need to answer. What is going on inside the shock to change its dampening characteristics?

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    I dont need to answer anything. Maybe you do.

    It's pretty clear from the lack of 3 position remotes and the article I attached that the shock is only 2 position.

    The only changes you "feel" are in your head because you believe moving the cable just a little bit starts firming up your shock.

    Oh, ok!

    If that's the case, why not offer all their 3 position DPS shocks with a remote conversion.

    Come on guys, use some common sense.
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  79. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I dont need to answer anything. Maybe you do.

    It's pretty clear from the lack of 3 position remotes and the article I attached that the shock is only 2 position.

    The only changes you "feel" are in your head because you believe moving the cable just a little bit starts forming up your shock.

    Oh, ok!

    If that's the case, why not offer all their 3 position DPS shocks with a remote conversion.

    Come on guys, use some common sense.
    Apparently taking a timeout to think about it and formulate an answer would do you some good. You're too hung up on the position aspect of it. It's completely possible to change the feel of a shock by moving the lever and stopping between detents, especially if the detents are not tightly spaced. People have been doing that with two position shocks for years.

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  80. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Apparently taking a timeout to think about it and formulate an answer would do you some good. You're too hung up on the position aspect of it. It's completely possible to change the feel of a shock by moving the lever and stopping between detents, especially if the detents are not tightly spaced. People have been doing that with two position shocks for years.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Yeah sure. Lol. I posted an article which you obviously didn't read.

    Also, there are no detents. Lol it's on a spring.

    Please respond back when you have a clue.
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  81. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Yeah sure. Lol. I posted an article which you obviously didn't read.

    Also, there are no detents. Lol it's on a spring.

    Please respond back when you have a clue.
    The spring makes it even easier, even though it's still a catch that prevents motion, ie the definition of a detent. The lockout mechanism on this shock is a custom one off between Orbea and Fox. Sorry but I'm going to take the manufacturer's and tech's word on it. You can post all of the articles you want but until you post one dealing with this particular mechanism you're comparing apples to oranges.

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  82. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Pure Marketing

    According to Fox, the shock is ON or OFF.

    Also, your shock, just like mine is a 2019. There is no middle position.
    In order for the squidlock to work the way it does the rear shock needs to be a 2 position shock. When the shock is locked out the oil flow ports are closed and when the shock is unlocked the oil flow ports are open so the suspension is able to move.

    The way I'd describe it is to imagine a kitchen tap. The kitchen tap has two positions, a closed valve so no water flows and then an open valve so that water flows freely. Now between those two positions the valve can be partially open, which allows a limited amount of water to flow through the valve depending on how much or little the tap is turned.

    That's what happens with the middle position of the squidlock remote with the 2 position Fox DPS shock. It pulls a small amount of cable and holds the valve inside the shock partially open so that some oil can flow through the shock, giving it that tunable intermediate position between full locked and full open. Adjusting the amount of cable pulled is why the middle position feel can be tuned all the way between close to fully locked out and close to fully open as required.

    It was only because the cable was a little loose that I started messing around with the 2mm allen head screws and realised that it was changing the feel of the middle position of the rear shock. The way I did this was to put the remote to full locked (least tension on cable) adjust the 2mm allen head screw and then check the feel of the shock and repeat until it was where I wanted it to be.

    Today was the second ride on the new XT M8120 brakes. I think they count as fully bedded in now! At one point I was going down a descent, quite fast as the bike is great downhill, and had forgotten there was a switchback coming up. I hit the brakes right before it and both front and rear wheels were "bobbling" together in unison, just at that point where they're almost locking up and skipping on the ground but not quite fully locked. I made the corner. Pure awesomeness.

  83. #683
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    Wow, you are now starting to come up with technology in your head that you have no idea actually exists or not.

    Have you taken apart this shock? No, you haven't.

    You actually think you are limiting oil flow by moving the lockout mechanism attached to the cable?

    I mean if you do, good for you carry on. But you have no idea on the workings of the internal components of the shock.

    If there was such a feature, all of the shocks with a 2 position lockout would have been sold with a 3 position remote like the older DPS shocks that actually functioned like this.

    Some people still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus too, so I guess it's ok. But sooner or later, they learn the truth.
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  84. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Wow, you are now starting to come up with technology in your head that you have no idea actually exists or not.

    Have you taken apart this shock? No, you haven't.

    You actually think you are limiting oil flow by moving the lockout mechanism attached to the cable?

    I mean if you do, good for you carry on. But you have no idea on the workings of the internal components of the shock.

    If there was such a feature, all of the shocks with a 2 position lockout would have been sold with a 3 position remote like the older DPS shocks that actually functioned like this.

    Some people still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus too, so I guess it's ok. But sooner or later, they learn the truth.
    What part of this is a one off lockout mechanism is so hard for you to comprehend?

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  85. #685
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    Dude, what are you talking about. The shock is on or off.

    You're the one who couldn't figure out the chain guide on your bike, but we are suppose to believe you when it comes the the inner workings of a shock.

    That's laughable.
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  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Dude, what are you talking about. The shock is on or off.

    You're the one who couldn't figure out the chain guide on your bike, but we are suppose to believe you when it comes the the inner workings of a shock.

    That's laughable.
    It is easy to tell when someone's argument is weak. They start veering away from any point of substance and start hurling personal insults.

    I'll ask again, what part of the fact that the lockout mechanism on the Oiz is a custom one off is hard for you to understand?

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  87. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    It is easy to tell when someone's argument is weak. They start veering away from any point of substance and start hurling personal insults.

    I'll ask again, what part of the fact that the lockout mechanism on the Oiz is a custom one off is hard for you to understand?

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    I've given you facts upon facts.

    Why don't you read?

    Let me make this clear.

    I am not arguing that there is a middle position to the Squidlock. However, the mechanism does not affect the compression characteristics of the shock in any way outside of keeping it open, or keeping it closed.

    The two position Fox shock is either "open" or "closed". Whether the Squidlock is in the middle or open position, the shock is OPEN. There is no in between compression characteristics.

    When the Squidlock is in the locked position, the fork and the shock are closed. Meaning they don't move.

    You, on the other hand, have offered ZERO proof that the Squidlock actually has an impact on the compression performance of the shock.
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  88. #688
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    Here is a quote from the Orbea site:

    Many remote shocks are already compatible with a three-position lockout and Squidlock unlocks this potential. Additionally, Squidlock is compatible with any bike that is already fitted with a remote lockout and 3-position suspension.

    However, the Fox shock is NOT a three position remote shock.

    So.....dream on.
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  89. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I've given you facts upon facts.

    Why don't you read?

    Let me make this clear.

    I am not arguing that there is a middle position to the Squidlock. However, the mechanism does not affect the compression characteristics of the shock in any way outside of keeping it open, or keeping it closed.

    The two position Fox shock is either "open" or "closed". Whether the Squidlock is in the middle or open position, the shock is OPEN. There is no in between compression characteristics.

    When the Squidlock is in the locked position, the fork and the shock are closed. Meaning they don't move.

    You, on the other hand, have offered ZERO proof that the Squidlock actually has an impact on the compression performance of the shock.
    Let's break this down into the simplest terms and maybe we can help you actually get to the level understanding you think you possess.

    True or false, the lockout regulates the level of constriction in the dampening circuits to achieve the desired suspension characteristic, ie firmer or softer?

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  90. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Let's break this down into the simplest terms and maybe we can help you actually get to the level understanding you think you posses.

    True or false, the lockout regulates the level of constriction in the dampening circuits to achieve the desired suspension characteristic, ie firmer or softer?

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    FALSE.
    There are no "levels of constriction" available in the Fox 2 position shock. It's not possible.

    I think you are not understanding the inner workings of the shock itself.

    You think that the remote is somehow magical. Giving you features that is not possible.

    Please read the quote from the Orbea site, and then show me proof that the Fox shock on the OIZ is capable of 3 position functionality or even something that is not on, or off.
    by Silentfoe
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  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    FALSE.
    There are no "levels of constriction" available in the Fox 2 position shock. It's not possible.

    I think you are not understanding the inner workings of the shock itself.

    You think that the remote is somehow magical. Giving you features that is not possible.

    Please read the quote from the Orbea site, and then show me proof that the Fox shock on the OIZ is capable of 3 position functionality or even something that is not on, or off.
    If the shock is two position then there has to be at least two levels of constriction otherwise the dampening characteristics would not change.

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  92. #692
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    Yes, you are correct.

    On.

    Off.

    There is no other compression characteristic possible. Sorry.

    I own this bike, and would love to have a middle setting, but there isn't one.

    If you can come up with proof, please share with the thread.
    by Silentfoe
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  93. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post

    On.

    Off.

    There is no other compression characteristic possible. Sorry.

    You do realize that every Factory version of that shock, 3 position lever or 2 position remote, contain the Dual Piston System yes?

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  94. #694
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    And. Your point?

    You do realize that if the 2 pos. shock was capable of 3 positions, or infinite positions that Fox would sell it with a 3 position remote or a remote similar to Cane Creeks OPT remote right?

    But they don't.

    Carry on.

    I'll respond when you have proof.
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  95. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    And. Your point?

    You do realize that if the 2 pos. shock was capable of 3 positions, or infinite positions that Fox would sell it with a 3 position remote or a remote similar to Cane Creeks OPT remote right?

    But they don't.

    Carry on.

    I'll respond when you have proof.
    I'm glad you recognize that. Here's an image from Fox's website that may shock you.

    Which goes to show that even the two position remote has the internals, just not the external selector.
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  96. #696
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    You are dumb.

    Yes, that is for the 3 position DPS. Not the 2 position.

    Again. Please find some technical information, video, or anything else that says the 2 pos. shock is capable of more than that.
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  97. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    You are dumb.

    Yes, that is for the 3 position DPS. Not the 2 position.

    Again. Please find some technical information, video, or anything else that says the 2 pos. shock is capable of more than that.
    That's for both, the DPS does not change only the mode of compression circuit selection. You may go here yourself, select the 2 position remote option, scroll down the page, and edify yourself.

    https://www.ridefox.com/family.php?m=bike&family=float

    I've already told you that two seperate Fox techs that were doing rebuilds on site said it was three mode capable and one of them even knew that the Oiz "has that trick remote interface".

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  98. #698
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    Hey champ.
    Then run one of these on your bike and enjoy. Infinite adjustability.

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Cane-Creek...SABEgK5wvD_BwE

    And continue to live in fantasy land.
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  99. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Hey champ.
    Then run one of these on your bike and enjoy. Infinite adjustability.

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Cane-Creek...SABEgK5wvD_BwE

    And continue to live in fantasy land.
    So which point are you unwilling to concede, that every current generation DPS Factory shock has three position capable internals, unlike what you asserted? That Orbea's interface is a one off and as such cannot be compared to any other? That the Fox techs were correct? Or is that you just can't handle being incorrect?

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  100. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    So which point are you unwilling to concede, that every current generation DPS Factory shock has three position capable internals, unlike what you asserted? That Orbea's interface is a one off and as such cannot be compared to any other? That the Fox techs were correct? Or is that you just can't handle being incorrect?

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Continues to argue and yet offers no proof to back up his theory.
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  101. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Continues to argue and yet offers no proof to back up his theory.
    So Fox techs aren't proof? The manufacturer's website isn't proof?

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  102. #702
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    PTU up, vs 3-pos CTD

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    I have now around 800km with the Oiz M10 TR 2020 and I started to follow the topics 3-positions or 2 positions squidlock from this summer when I've ordered the bike. My own experience is that I don't feel much of a difference between the middle and open position. I never did adjust the lockout screws, so I don't know that's the case.

    But I've sent an e-mail to Orbea:
    Question:
    I've a question about the OIZ M10 (XC AND TR).
    The 2020 models contain the Squidlock 3-position switch.
    Are you able to use the middle-position (intermediate) on the shock and forks of the XC and TR model? Or does the rear shock only has 3 positions and the fork 2?
    Answer:
    Thanks for contacting us!
    I confirm you that you can use the middle position even if you have a 3 position rear shock and 2 position fork.

    I've sent a e-mail to Sabma who tunes and maintenance Fox for BeneLux (translated from dutch):
    Answer: I see that the Shock and Fork are both in PTU. This means they only have 2 stands/position, open and closed.
    It is possible to rebuild both to a 3 positions push to lock system but in our opinion the 2 positions system works better. That's why Fox chooses more and more for the 2 positions system PTU.

    I've sent a mail to Fox (with the shock ID):
    answer: Hello ***,
    Thank you for your email. This remote system is 2-position only. There is no middle position.
    Best,
    FOX Team

    From the Blue Papers of Orbea:
    "Squidlock unlocks the full performance of the FOX DPS shocks, which allow you to choose from three position -Open, Medium and Firm- enabling the bike to conform to any terrain. With Squidlock you will be able to access that third middle position, enjoying the full potential of the DPS technology. At the same time, Squidlock allows you to access to an intermediate position on the compression settings of FOX forks with GRIP cartridge (Performance Series). FOX forks with FIT4 cartridge (Factory Series) will have 2 positions available (Firm and Open), but you will be able to tune the Open position compression setting with the black dial on top of the right leg."

    Anyway the shock (even the TR model) works really well open. I only lock on pavement, rest always open. Even technical climbs, climbs standing up, all open.

  104. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Wow, you are now starting to come up with technology in your head that you have no idea actually exists or not.

    Have you taken apart this shock? No, you haven't.

    You actually think you are limiting oil flow by moving the lockout mechanism attached to the cable?

    I mean if you do, good for you carry on. But you have no idea on the workings of the internal components of the shock.

    If there was such a feature, all of the shocks with a 2 position lockout would have been sold with a 3 position remote like the older DPS shocks that actually functioned like this.

    Some people still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus too, so I guess it's ok. But sooner or later, they learn the truth.
    There's no need to guess. Fox publish a detailed service manual for the Fox Float DPS rear shock with plenty of pictures of the shock internals.

    https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=549

    New Oiz-fox-lockout-plate.jpg

    New Oiz-fox-dps-lockout-plate-2.jpg

    There is a spring loaded lockout plate that controls oil flow through the damper circuit. When this is closed by being pressed against the bottom of the piston it blocks oil flow through the damper and the shock is locked out. When this lockout plate is moved away from the bottom of the piston it allows oil to flow through the damper and the shock is active.

    This lockout plate only moves a very small amount. According to the manual for Remote models when switching from Firm to Open modes, Lockout plate lift should measure between 0.072-0.090in (1.83-2.29mm) (see General Reassembly Step 12 in manual).

    On a 2 position Fox DPS rear shock with remote this lockout plate position is infinitely adjustable between full open and full closed. It's not a switch. By default it is held closed by the spring tension, and then depending how much cable is pulled by the remote the lockout plate will move away from the bottom of the piston to unlock the shock. The amount of cable tension is the only thing that controls the position of the lockout plate.

    What the Squidlock does is pull the cable so the lockout plate is held in an intermediate position between full open and full closed. This partially restricts oil flow to give a virtual middle position between full open and full closed.

  105. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    What the Squidlock does is pull the cable so the lockout plate is held in an intermediate position between full open and full closed. This partially restricts oil flow to give a virtual middle position between full open and full closed.
    Good reply! Very interesting.

    Fox also has this on their website (installation manual for the DPS and DPX2):

    New Oiz-push-lock-3-pos-remote.jpg

    It does the same as the squid lock, it seems.

  106. #706
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    I'm strongly considering the M10 TR for my next race bike.

    A little about me... 6'3" / 205 lbs. My primary races are marathon + distance, but I also do some XCO and MTB crits.

    As a bigger guy, should I have any concerns going with the Oiz TR?

  107. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peepers View Post
    I'm strongly considering the M10 TR for my next race bike.

    A little about me... 6'3" / 205 lbs. My primary races are marathon + distance, but I also do some XCO and MTB crits.

    As a bigger guy, should I have any concerns going with the Oiz TR?
    I'm 6'3 and about 185lbs - 190lbs fully kitted with a 1.5L pack. I've done a couple of marathon races and just general trail riding. I don't baby the bike and so far no issues, other than the chain guide continually loosening, Locktite fixed that, but I only have about 200 miles on the bike so far.

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  108. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I'm 6'3 and about 185lbs - 190lbs fully kitted with a 1.5L pack. I've done a couple of marathon races and just general trail riding. I don't baby the bike and so far no issues, other than the chain guide continually loosening, Locktite fixed that, but I only have about 200 miles on the bike so far.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the reply. I assume you're on an XL. How's the fit?

  109. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peepers View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I assume you're on an XL. How's the fit?
    It's pretty good. I'm still tweaking it a bit as I go. This is my first non-150mm + bike in several years so it's a work in progress.

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  110. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    There's no need to guess. Fox publish a detailed service manual for the Fox Float DPS rear shock with plenty of pictures of the shock internals.

    https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=549

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is a spring loaded lockout plate that controls oil flow through the damper circuit. When this is closed by being pressed against the bottom of the piston it blocks oil flow through the damper and the shock is locked out. When this lockout plate is moved away from the bottom of the piston it allows oil to flow through the damper and the shock is active.

    This lockout plate only moves a very small amount. According to the manual for Remote models when switching from Firm to Open modes, Lockout plate lift should measure between 0.072-0.090in (1.83-2.29mm) (see General Reassembly Step 12 in manual).

    On a 2 position Fox DPS rear shock with remote this lockout plate position is infinitely adjustable between full open and full closed. It's not a switch. By default it is held closed by the spring tension, and then depending how much cable is pulled by the remote the lockout plate will move away from the bottom of the piston to unlock the shock. The amount of cable tension is the only thing that controls the position of the lockout plate.

    What the Squidlock does is pull the cable so the lockout plate is held in an intermediate position between full open and full closed. This partially restricts oil flow to give a virtual middle position between full open and full closed.
    Well I'm glad that debate is finally settled.

    Thanks for the info. Now I can order that Squidlock with confidence.

  111. #711
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    Hey lads !

    2020 Oiz Tr owner here !

    Pretty happy with the bike after one ride. Coming from a Remedy, I wanted something lighter, for longer and less "enduro oriented" rides.

    Bike is light and accelerates well, I'm happy with that. Components are nice overall.
    I really like the Shimano groupset with xt/xtr transmission, even tho I'm usually more of a SRAM guy.

    However, I don't really like the ergonomics of the cockpit with the dropper all the way on the left, and the lockout commands.

    Long story short : I'm gonna ride full open, and ditch the Squidlock in favor of a Wolftooth dropper remote that I got hanging from my previous bike.
    If someone is interested in a Squidlock in great condition (1 ride), don't hesitate to pm (I live in France). Else, I'll just store it "just in case"...

    Have a good holidays everyone !

  112. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by evildos View Post
    I really like the Shimano groupset with xt/xtr transmission, even tho I'm usually more of a SRAM guy.
    I think a 2020 Oiz is going to be my next bike. I normally build frame up (all hardtails thus far) but the spec on the M10 TR looks really good for the price. I haven’t ridden anything Shimano since 2006 or so & have used SRAM anytime I was running gears. How does the new Shimano 12 speed compare to what you’re used to with SRAM? How do the triggers feel? Anything I should be on the look out for? Thanks!

  113. #713
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    I had a SRAM Eagle X01 groupset on my Remedy and really liked it. Worked like a charm, didn't have any maintenance or tweaking to do with it once it was set up.

    I think you can't go wrong with these groupsets (XT/XTR, X01/XX1)

    Can't tell if one shifts better or anything like that. I'm just more used to the SRAM "feel" and "look".

  114. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior View Post
    I think a 2020 Oiz is going to be my next bike. I normally build frame up (all hardtails thus far) but the spec on the M10 TR looks really good for the price. I haven’t ridden anything Shimano since 2006 or so & have used SRAM anytime I was running gears. How does the new Shimano 12 speed compare to what you’re used to with SRAM? How do the triggers feel? Anything I should be on the look out for? Thanks!
    I'll just put it this way. Unless SRAM does something to catch up when the X01 cassette on my Rallon wears out it'll be replaced with an XT or XTR.

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  115. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    Well I'm glad that debate is finally settled.

    Thanks for the info. Now I can order that Squidlock with confidence.
    The problem with the Orbea Squidlock manual is that they assume anyone reading it will know exactly how it works without needing to be told. Once you know that the remote is push to unlock it makes sense but the manual doesn't explicitly explain how to set it up.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-squidlock-adjustment.jpg

    This picture shows the Squidlock cable on my bike. There is a 2mm allen tension screw that can be used to adjust the tension of the cable attached to the rear shock. It's best to adjust this screw with the lever set to locked out, in order to have less cable tension and not risk stripping the small 2mm allen head.

    To have a Squidlock stiffer middle position you would reduce cable tension, so that the lockout plate doesn't move as far and is closer to closed.

    To have a Squidlock softer middle position you would increase cable tension, so that the lockout plate moves further and is closer to open.

    The starting point for the cable tension needs to be relatively light, so that it isn't pulled super tight when you have the Squidlock lever set to locked out. If you have that starting cable tension pulled super tight when you move the lever to the middle position it's just going to open the rear shock lockout fully. The middle and open positions will feel the same then. On my bike in the locked out position you can lift the cable slightly up off the guide.

  116. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior View Post
    I think a 2020 Oiz is going to be my next bike. I normally build frame up (all hardtails thus far) but the spec on the M10 TR looks really good for the price. I haven’t ridden anything Shimano since 2006 or so & have used SRAM anytime I was running gears. How does the new Shimano 12 speed compare to what you’re used to with SRAM? How do the triggers feel? Anything I should be on the look out for? Thanks!
    This table shows the speeds in mph for each gear pedalling at 90rpm with a 29x2.3" tyre. That's how I think of it but for gear inches etc just put the sprockets into the Sheldon Brown gear calculator.

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

    SRAM 12 Speed 10-50: 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50

    Shimano 12 Speed 10-51: 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51

    New Oiz-shimano-sram-12-speed-gearing.jpg

    When it comes to 1x12 gearing you'd think a SRAM 10-50 cassette would be a lot like a Shimano 10-51 cassette to ride but I've been finding there's actually quite a big difference. The first 8 sprockets are the same spacing but they have a different approach to the larger sprockets, which are the climbing gears.

    What SRAM do for 1x12 is have a relatively tight spacing of gears through the middle of the block 28-32-36-42 sprockets, and then they have a big jump to a bailout 50 tooth sprocket on the end.

    In contrast Shimano have a more evenly spaced range of gears all the way through the middle of the block 28-33-39-45 sprockets. They have bigger jumps than a SRAM cassette for the common climbing gears but there isn't the same big final jump to the 51 tooth sprocket.

    What I've been finding riding with a 34 tooth front chainring and Shimano 10-51 12 speed cassette is that those jumps in the middle of the block are causing me issues on the climbs. It's affecting my performance a lot more than I thought it would. In particular it's the 28-33-39 jumps on the Shimano cassette, rather than the tighter 28-32-36 jumps on the SRAM cassette that are the problem. With 1x gearing it's not like you can get away from it! The bigger the jump the harder you have to work to get on top of the next gear when shifting up to a smaller sprocket, and also the more speed you lose when shifting down to a larger sprocket. I keep falling between gears on the Shimano cassette, so I'm either spinning at too high a cadence or grinding at too low a cadence on the climbs.

    As it is I'm seriously considering switching my cassette from Shimano to SRAM as I know where I'm at with the SRAM Eagle gear spacing.

    In terms of shifting quality there's no complaints about the 12 speed Shimano. It shifts up and down nicely and the adjustable clutch on the Shimano rear derailleur is stronger than the SRAM one so you don't get as much chain slap.

  117. #717
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    Wow, thanks for all the informative replies! Much appreciated. Was thinking more of the feel between the two but the different gears is very interesting. Probably something I’d get used to after a bit of ride time But we’ll see.

  118. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmazzer View Post

    I've sent a mail to Fox (with the shock ID):
    answer: Hello ***,
    Thank you for your email. This remote system is 2-position only. There is no middle position.
    Best,
    FOX Team
    Well, from the horses mouth, but some people still have imaginations and write long technical papers on things that just don't exist.

    If the shock was 3 position capable, the Fox tech would have said. "Yes, buy an old 3 position remote (as shown above in post #705) and you will have an intermediate setting."

    But he didn't.
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  119. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Well, from the horses mouth, but some people still have imaginations and write long technical papers on things that just don't exist.

    If the shock was 3 position capable, the Fox tech would have said. "Yes, buy an old 3 position remote (as shown above in post #705) and you will have an intermediate setting."

    But he didn't.
    Yes, every single person you are attempting to argue with agrees with you that there are only two REMOTE positions on the Fox remote.

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  120. #720
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    Hi,
    Maybe this helps...
    https://youtu.be/dBJnkZtbMnw

  121. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the informative replies! Much appreciated. Was thinking more of the feel between the two but the different gears is very interesting. Probably something I’d get used to after a bit of ride time But we’ll see.
    The gearing steps are something you can get used to with practice. As it's always the same point in the cassette what I've been trying to do is be a bit more proactive, knowing there is a gap in the gearing coming up and trying to push harder for a little while immediately after changing between those gears to get on top of the next gear as soon as possible.

    I've got Shimano XTR M9100 on this bike. The feel of the shifting is a little different to SRAM XX1 as pressing the large paddle to downshift to a larger rear sprocket you don't get that same loud audio cue as you bang through the gears that you get on the SRAM XX1 shifter. Compared to the previous generation 11 speed Shimano (XT M8000) I'd say the newer Shimano XTR M9100 is a clear improvement though, being a bit more positive and you do get a very distinct click on the upshifts pressing the small paddle to upshift to a smaller rear sprocket. There's no doubt that whenever you hit the shifter on the XTR M9100 it will do a clean shift, including multishifts.

    Something that's really nice on the new Shimano XTR M9100 and XT M8100 shifters is that the large paddle has a bit of rubber gripper added, so that even when your hands and gloves are wet you can still shift gear without your thumb slipping off the wet metal of the shifter paddle. I had a few nightmares with that on XT M8000 in the past where my gloves were soaked and cold so I tried taking the gloves off to ride bare hands, and then couldn't change gear as the wet metal XT M8000 shifter paddles were so slippery!

    If you have the iSpec EV combined shifter and brake you can rotate the shifter angle around the bar to suit. You can't individually adjust the paddle position like with SRAM XX1 but the rotation does help. You can also slide the shifter inwards or outwards but you don't get as much side to side adjustment as there used to be on the previous XT M8000 iSpec. If you have the brake levers far out close to the handlebar grip you might find the triggers don't go far enough in and overhang the side of your grip pressing against your thumb.

  122. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceresbum View Post
    Hi,
    Maybe this helps...
    https://youtu.be/dBJnkZtbMnw
    That video shows the difference between locked, middle positions and full open on the rear shock with the Squidlock.

    Additionally you can tune the middle position stiffness up and down as required. It's that ability to tune the stiffness that I've been finding useful.

  123. #723
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    Has anyone gone from a 120mm fork to a 100mm fork on their Oiz?

    I've got the TR, and only ride it for XC, I've got an Offering coiled up for enduro and DH.

    I'm wondering how the handling changes between the 120 and 100. I'd assuming the lower BB height will help it corner better than at 120, and the reach increase will make it a touch more roomy.

    I've got a 100mm 34 air shaft, just been too lazy to fit it!

    Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk

  124. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    That video shows the difference between locked, middle positions and full open on the rear shock with the Squidlock.

    Additionally you can tune the middle position stiffness up and down as required. It's that ability to tune the stiffness that I've been finding useful.
    Appreciate all your input on this thread! Informative, well written and respectful.

    Cheers.

  125. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Has anyone gone from a 120mm fork to a 100mm fork on their Oiz?

    I've got the TR, and only ride it for XC, I've got an Offering coiled up for enduro and DH.

    I'm wondering how the handling changes between the 120 and 100. I'd assuming the lower BB height will help it corner better than at 120, and the reach increase will make it a touch more roomy.

    I've got a 100mm 34 air shaft, just been too lazy to fit it!

    Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk
    Ker,
    I have tried the 120mm, 110mm, and 100mm shafts in my 34SC. I'm currently running the 110mm and here are my complete impressions so far of all setups in chronological order of use. I am mostly an XC guy and traditionally like XC style handling. Most recently, I rode an AIR 9 RDO.

    120mm - This felt way too much like a chopper motorcycle to me. As I recall, the handling was sluggish to me and felt like the contact was on the back side of the front tire. I didn't like this at all. I came from a decade or more of 100mm hardtail use and I'm sure that jump was too big for my tastes. It was definitely confidence inspiring on drops though.

    100mm - I swapped to 100mm and instantly felt more at home in regard to the handling. Pedal strikes became a small issue but were slightly resolved by fork tuning (less sag) and bike fit adjustment that moved my weight back a bit. The problem with 100mm was that I felt so far over the bars on this bike, in particular in a standing climb and on some techy east coast downhill use over a long weekend. Even with my stem stack max height and angled upward, I was still too far over the bars or weight forward. The bike also started to feel too small for me (6' 2" size large). And by that I mean it just felt like the standover and bar height were just too low.

    110mm - This is currently how I am using the bike and it has been the most comfortable compromise for me so far. However, I still feel that I have to worry about pedal strikes more than I should have to. And I still feel in general that my confidence is not where it should be on this bike. Handling is good enough, standing climbs are better than 100mm, and I can't speak for any downhill handling (only small drops here).

    I have owned this bike for just over a year now and I desperately want this bike to work for me but in the end, I think it might not be a match for me, regardless of fork setup. I have been toying with going back to 120mm again just to see if this "transitional" approach might help me ride the 120 setup better but I doubt it will matter. The short head tube in my opinion is a sign that the bike was designed to be a 120 bike but maybe I'm wrong. I'm really close to making a difficult (costly) choice of moving onto a different bike.

  126. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Ker,
    I have tried the 120mm, 110mm, and 100mm shafts in my 34SC. I'm currently running the 110mm and here are my complete impressions so far of all setups in chronological order of use. I am mostly an XC guy and traditionally like XC style handling. Most recently, I rode an AIR 9 RDO.

    120mm - This felt way too much like a chopper motorcycle to me. As I recall, the handling was sluggish to me and felt like the contact was on the back side of the front tire. I didn't like this at all. I came from a decade or more of 100mm hardtail use and I'm sure that jump was too big for my tastes. It was definitely confidence inspiring on drops though.

    100mm - I swapped to 100mm and instantly felt more at home in regard to the handling. Pedal strikes became a small issue but were slightly resolved by fork tuning (less sag) and bike fit adjustment that moved my weight back a bit. The problem with 100mm was that I felt so far over the bars on this bike, in particular in a standing climb and on some techy east coast downhill use over a long weekend. Even with my stem stack max height and angled upward, I was still too far over the bars or weight forward. The bike also started to feel too small for me (6' 2" size large). And by that I mean it just felt like the standover and bar height were just too low.

    110mm - This is currently how I am using the bike and it has been the most comfortable compromise for me so far. However, I still feel that I have to worry about pedal strikes more than I should have to. And I still feel in general that my confidence is not where it should be on this bike. Handling is good enough, standing climbs are better than 100mm, and I can't speak for any downhill handling (only small drops here).

    I have owned this bike for just over a year now and I desperately want this bike to work for me but in the end, I think it might not be a match for me, regardless of fork setup. I have been toying with going back to 120mm again just to see if this "transitional" approach might help me ride the 120 setup better but I doubt it will matter. The short head tube in my opinion is a sign that the bike was designed to be a 120 bike but maybe I'm wrong. I'm really close to making a difficult (costly) choice of moving onto a different bike.
    I think this bike is too small for you.

    At 5'9" I ride a Large with a 120 SC and it often feels cramped to me with a 70mm stem.

    However, I would never ride this bike with a 100mm fork anymore. The elimination of pedal strikes makes it totally worth running the 120mm.
    by Silentfoe
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  127. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I think this bike is too small for you.

    At 5'9" I ride a Large with a 120 SC and it often feels cramped to me with a 70mm stem.

    However, I would never ride this bike with a 100mm fork anymore. The elimination of pedal strikes makes it totally worth running the 120mm.
    You could be right and I have certainly considered this. I somewhat regret having not asked for an XL when my first frame broke.

  128. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    You could be right and I have certainly considered this. I somewhat regret having not asked for an XL when my first frame broke.
    Yep, I'm 180cm and the reach feels generally too short for me, it's OK with a 70mm stem, but it's pushing it.

    That said, the Niner frame you came off is shorter than the Oiz in reach according to their geometry chart.

    Dropping the fork to 100mm was my thought in extending the reach by around 10mm.

    Regarding swapping frame sizes.... I tried really hard to change colour when my first frame broke, and the shop and Orbea were rubbish and wouldn't budge. Still had to wait 2 months for my replacement.

    Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk

  129. #729
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    Squidlock Help!

    Do you need the barrel adjusters in-line with the Squidlock, or just straight gear outers, adjusting with the 2mm hex bolts in the shifter?

  130. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Yep, I'm 180cm and the reach feels generally too short for me, it's OK with a 70mm stem, but it's pushing it.

    That said, the Niner frame you came off is shorter than the Oiz in reach according to their geometry chart.

    Dropping the fork to 100mm was my thought in extending the reach by around 10mm.

    Regarding swapping frame sizes.... I tried really hard to change colour when my first frame broke, and the shop and Orbea were rubbish and wouldn't budge. Still had to wait 2 months for my replacement.

    Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk
    I don't think it is the reach. My problem is probably the stack height.

  131. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Yep, I'm 180cm and the reach feels generally too short for me, it's OK with a 70mm stem, but it's pushing it.
    Why not go a longer stem?

    One of my team riders is 180cm and he tested his bike with a bunch of different stem lengths. In the end he was happiest with a 100mm stem. And he rides his bike on some gnarly trails, stuff that even the best riders would use an Enduro bike for.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  132. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Why not go a longer stem?

    One of my team riders is 180cm and he tested his bike with a bunch of different stem lengths. In the end he was happiest with a 100mm stem. And he rides his bike on some gnarly trails, stuff that even the best riders would use an Enduro bike for.
    I've tried 100mm down to 50mm on the Oiz, and so far 70mm feels like the sweet spot for handling for me.

  133. #733
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    Hei.

    I had a small issue during my last ride.

    Felt a little impact during a descent and had to stop about a kilometer after with back tire almost without air.

    When inspecting the tire for a puncture I found the problem wasn't a puncture but a bent rim.

    New Oiz-img_20200103_103827.jpg

    I was able to inflate the tire back and get back home but I need to replace this.

    Does anyone know which rim the OIZ M10 2020 uses? It has the XR 1650 wheel that DT Swiss makes to Orbea OIZ and I don't find any information about it anywhere.

  134. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptormig View Post
    Hei.

    I had a small issue during my last ride.

    Felt a little impact during a descent and had to stop about a kilometer after with back tire almost without air.

    When inspecting the tire for a puncture I found the problem wasn't a puncture but a bent rim.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was able to inflate the tire back and get back home but I need to replace this.

    Does anyone know which rim the OIZ M10 2020 uses? It has the XR 1650 wheel that DT Swiss makes to Orbea OIZ and I don't find any information about it anywhere.
    You may be able to pull that out. Get a metal ruler, and some vice grips or good pliers, put the ruler between the outside rim edge and the pliers - and pull outwards with the pliers to straighten it.

  135. #735
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    That is probably fixable.

    Kerpoise gave good instructions how to.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  136. #736
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    Can someone tell me what DT Swiss level hub is on the Orbea Oiz M10 TR wheelset? It is listed as the "DT Swiss XR-1650 Spline 25c TLR CL, Star Ratchet, Boost" on their website but I can't tell what level rim and/or hub that is as the XR-1650 seems to be made just for Orbea. The ratchet engagement, guessing it comes with 18T, is upgradable on the hub, correct? Is that a DT Swiss 240 or 350 hub or something different? Same thing with the rim. Thanks much.

  137. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstandfest View Post
    Can someone tell me what DT Swiss level hub is on the Orbea Oiz M10 TR wheelset? It is listed as the "DT Swiss XR-1650 Spline 25c TLR CL, Star Ratchet, Boost" on their website but I can't tell what level rim and/or hub that is as the XR-1650 seems to be made just for Orbea. The ratchet engagement, guessing it comes with 18T, is upgradable on the hub, correct? Is that a DT Swiss 240 or 350 hub or something different? Same thing with the rim. Thanks much.
    The DT Swiss XR 1650 wheels appear to be DT Swiss X 1700 Spline with the hubs painted black instead of silver. Quoted weights for the 29er versions of those are front wheel 833g and rear wheel 952g.

    https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/...700-spline-25/

    The rim looks like it might be a DT Swiss XR391 25mm internal width alloy rim:

    https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/...ountry/xr-391/

    The XR 1650 hub flange shapes look a lot like the non series DT 350 straight pull hubs on the DT Swiss X1700 Spline wheels. The special part for Orbea being the Shimano Microspline 12 speed freehub body that isn't listed as an option on the retail DT Swiss X 1700 wheelsets.

    The stock X 1700 Spline wheels come with 18 tooth star ratchet internals but the XR 1650 might have the 36 tooth instead? It's easy to tell as the freehub sound and engagement is completely different between a 18 tooth and 36 tooth star ratchet if you spin the wheel, the 36 tooth version being louder and more buzzy with a quicker engagement.

  138. #738
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    From DT Swiss the XR 1650 is a wheel with the spokes and rim of a XR1501 and the hub of a X1700.

  139. #739
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    Has anybody ridden both 100mm and 120mm versions of OIZ?

    I have M10 TR (120mm) and I like the bike so much that I think about changing to 100mm version for usage on lighter trails. I am not sure that the difference is significant enough to warrant such change.

    Many thanks for any experience!

  140. #740
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    Is there a paint durability difference between the gloss finish or matte finish with MyO frames? Looking doing MyO with possibly metallic navy blue as main color and metallic gold as secondary but worried about paint gouges in a dark navy where the white primer shows through and sticks out like a sore thumb. Not sure whether I should go gloss finish or matte finish or if it even makes a difference.

    Also, I don't really want a white frame but will the look of that or silver hold up better...I mean this is a mountain bike (not road) and is going to get bumped and bruised

  141. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by markopic View Post
    Has anybody ridden both 100mm and 120mm versions of OIZ?

    I have M10 TR (120mm) and I like the bike so much that I think about changing to 100mm version for usage on lighter trails. I am not sure that the difference is significant enough to warrant such change.

    Many thanks for any experience!
    I've ridden both. Now I ride 120F/ 100R. There is no need for me to run anything else.

    I would never run 100/100 ever again. The 34SC is worlds better than the 32SC and raising the BB a few mm is a huge bonus.

    With a slacker HA, a stiffer fork for better steering, raised BB, and longer WB, there is no benefit to running a 100 mm front.
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  142. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstandfest View Post
    Is there a paint durability difference between the gloss finish or matte finish with MyO frames? Looking doing MyO with possibly metallic navy blue as main color and metallic gold as secondary but worried about paint gouges in a dark navy where the white primer shows through and sticks out like a sore thumb. Not sure whether I should go gloss finish or matte finish or if it even makes a difference.

    Also, I don't really want a white frame but will the look of that or silver hold up better...I mean this is a mountain bike (not road) and is going to get bumped and bruised
    Buy what you like. Who cares about scratches?

    Like you said - it's a mountain bike.
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  143. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I've ridden both. Now I ride 120F/ 100R. There is no need for me to run anything else.

    I would never run 100/100 ever again. The 34SC is worlds better than the 32SC and raising the BB a few mm is a huge bonus.

    With a slacker HA, a stiffer fork for better steering, raised BB, and longer WB, there is no benefit to running a 100 mm front.
    It depends where and what you ride I think.

    I don't take the Oiz on anything that's particularly rocky, it's all big hills, long rides for me. My Offering is coiled up for DH and Enduro.

    The benefits of the lower front end are a steeper seat angle (the Oiz is a bit slack), a lower BB (better cornering), and the 34sc can be run at 100 so you still get the stiff fork.

    I've just put mine to 100 and the difference climbing was very noticeable, as was the cornering.

  144. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    I would disagree.

    The benefits of the lower front end are a steeper seat angle (the Oiz is a bit slack), a lower BB (better cornering), and the 34sc can be run at 100 so you still get the stiff fork.

    I've just put mine to 100 and the difference climbing was very noticeable, as was the cornering.
    A few mm makes you corner better? OK. I think it's in your head.

    Run better tires and you can corner harder or better even with the 2mm higher BB.

    Lower your bars with a slammed stem or reduced spacers to weight the front and you can corner faster too.

    Climbing - a steeper seat angle only affects seated climbing. If you are seated on your climbs you are losing time.

    Also, the 74 degree seat angle with the 120 is better for pedaling on the flats.
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  145. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    A few mm makes you corner better? OK. I think it's in your head.

    Run better tires and you can corner harder or better even with the 2mm higher BB.

    Lower your bars with a slammed stem or reduced spacers to weight the front and you can corner faster too.

    Climbing - a steeper seat angle only affects seated climbing. If you are seated on your climbs you are losing time.

    Also, the 74 degree seat angle with the 120 is better for pedaling on the flats.
    Yep, those mm really do count, the longer your legs, the more pronounced the effect of getting your hips forward are.

    Same with the BB, it doesn't take much to make a difference.

    And you're like looking at a 7mm difference in BB height, which is pretty significant. And a 1 degree difference in seat tube angle, which is also pretty significant.

    Tyres ... Yep. But you can't trim 7mm off or 1 degree with tyres.

    Anyway, I've got a bike for DH/Enduro and a bike for XC, so for me I'm keen to not compromise.

    100mm fork works for me, 120mm works for you

    Anyone searching this thread can pick and option.

  146. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Climbing - a steeper seat angle only affects seated climbing. If you are seated on your climbs you are losing time.
    I would love to see you attempt to stand while climbing every climb on our local marathon courses. It's just not happening.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  147. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I would love to see you attempt to stand while climbing every climb on our local marathon courses. It's just not happening.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Never said it would CAT 1 hero.

    If you think you are going to climb better than me with a 1 degree steeper SA you are clueless.

    Not only that, but I'm pretty sure my 74 degree SA will be more comfortable on the flats.
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  148. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Never said it would CAT 1 hero.

    If you think you are going to climb better than me with a 1 degree steeper SA you are clueless.

    Not only that, but I'm pretty sure my 74 degree SA will be more comfortable on the flats.
    This post and bravado within is so all over the place it's laughable. As to flats, what flats?

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  149. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    This post and bravado within is so all over the place it's laughable. As to flats, what flats?

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Again,
    Coming from the guy who can't figure out his chain guide.

    Talk about laughable.
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  150. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerpoise View Post
    Yep, those mm really do count, the longer your legs, the more pronounced the effect of getting your hips forward are.

    Same with the BB, it doesn't take much to make a difference.

    And you're like looking at a 7mm difference in BB height, which is pretty significant. And a 1 degree difference in seat tube angle, which is also pretty significant.

    Tyres ... Yep. But you can't trim 7mm off or 1 degree with tyres.

    Anyway, I've got a bike for DH/Enduro and a bike for XC, so for me I'm keen to not compromise.

    100mm fork works for me, 120mm works for you

    Anyone searching this thread can pick and option.
    I agree with your logic but sadly your words will be wasted.

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  151. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Again,
    Coming from the guy who can't figure out his chain guide.

    Talk about laughable.
    Again, coming from the guy who has to resort to insults when, all to frequently, he runs out of logical points.

    As to the chainguide, when a newish, under warranty item begins messing up it's the intelligent thing to do to figure out what the stock state is before messing with it. I would not expect you to be able to understand the logic or reasoning behind this but asking how it should be is not the same as I don't know how to fix it.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  152. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Again, coming from the guy who has to resort to insults when, all to frequently, he runs out of salient points.

    As to the chainguide, when a newish, under warranty item begins messing up it's the intelligent thing to do to figure out what the stock state is before messing with it. I would not expect you to be able to understand the logic or reasoning behind this but asking how it should be is not the same as I don't know how to fix it.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    It's just hard to take any of your advice as legit if you can't figure out something as simple as that device on this bike.
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  153. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    It's just hard to take any of your advice as legit if you can't figure out something as simple as that device on this bike.
    Like I said, I didn't expect you to get the rationale behind asking.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  154. #754
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    "If you think you are going to climb better than me with a 1 degree steeper SA you are clueless"

    It's not so much 'better' in terms of faster, which I think you're alluding to. A steeper seat angle is more comfortable, as to where your hips are. Have a go on 79 degree seat angle, and then go back to a 74 and it's really horrible! If you've got shorter legs, it's definitely much less of an issue though.

    Regarding riding on the flat being 'better', I wouldn't really argue one way or another. A slack seat angle will put you more stretched out, and extend the (virtual extended) ETT, but I'd rather a better position for climbing, and a longer reach for descending, and a good steep seat angle gives you those.

    I'm always keen to add to the pool of knowledge, so anyone browsing or searching can learn something new

  155. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstandfest View Post
    Is there a paint durability difference between the gloss finish or matte finish with MyO frames? Looking doing MyO with possibly metallic navy blue as main color and metallic gold as secondary but worried about paint gouges in a dark navy where the white primer shows through and sticks out like a sore thumb. Not sure whether I should go gloss finish or matte finish or if it even makes a difference.

    Also, I don't really want a white frame but will the look of that or silver hold up better...I mean this is a mountain bike (not road) and is going to get bumped and bruised
    Here are some pictures of the 2019 Orbea Oiz demo bike that I had to try for a weekend in September last year. This is the Blue Indigo / Bright Red (matte) stock colour scheme. This was a demo bike so the chips were most likely from it being shipped around. I didn't cause them whilst I had it!

    Click on the pictures to see larger versions.

    In this side on picture you can see a chip on the rear seatstay just above where the rear derailleur cable exits the frame at the rear.

    New Oiz-2019_orbea_oiz_side1.jpg

    In this picture you can see a chip low down on the down tube at the point where it bends. In this picture of the bike uncleaned and a bit dusty if you look at the down tube below the bottle cage you can also see how where during a ride energy drink has run down the frame from a bottle. On the matte finish frame marks like this, and also sweat dripping on the frame, were very obvious. The gloss finish in contrast hides the dried energy drink marks on the frame.

    New Oiz-2019_orbea_oiz_side2.jpg

    In terms of Orbea gloss paint toughness I've got a decent chip on the top tube of my own bike already so the gloss isn't significantly better.

    I think the safest bet if you want to protect the Orbea Oiz frame is to get an invisiframe kit and fit that from new.

  156. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by markopic View Post
    Has anybody ridden both 100mm and 120mm versions of OIZ?

    I have M10 TR (120mm) and I like the bike so much that I think about changing to 100mm version for usage on lighter trails. I am not sure that the difference is significant enough to warrant such change.

    Many thanks for any experience!
    Not to you OP... Not sure why having a different opinion has to be a fight. We're all on the same team here. Mtb enthusiasts. Ride however YOU like, 'better' is a relative term.

    That said, here's another data point on 100mm VS 120mm...

    I bought my bike as a 100/100. I test rode it back to back, swapping out the fork for 120mm. For my intended use of long long days in the saddle, I prefer 100/100. There was an adjustment needed for a lowish bottom bracket, but for my purposes, lightweight aggressive climbing and comfortable body position was more important than a little better DH chops. The 100/100 simply felt more comfortable and didn't drastically hold me back on trails, assuming wheels primarily stayed on the ground.

    For reference, I guess I'm a fairly fit weekend warrior that can ride. Just an average Joe who rides alot. My local trails are everything from green to double black and up or down (only flats is the road ride to the trails).

    I also have a 120/120 Revolver, which is my more rowdy ride. So for me, a 100/100 Oiz makes sense.

    So, to answer your original question, if it's your one and only bike I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle to change back and forth between suspension lengths. But really, only you can decide. Sorry, nothing is definitive in this world, especially advice off the internet.

  157. #757
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    Something that works well on the Orbea Oiz frame, the rear swingarm and the DT Swiss XRC 1200 wheels is that they have effective drain holes in them. Many frames don't always have unobstructed drain holes in them. They often have to be drilled in the frame before first use so it's nice that the drain holes in this frame are fully open and functioning. There is a drain hole under the bottom bracket and also two drain holes in the rear swingarm. The wheel rims have a drain hole in them next to the valve hole.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-drain-holes.jpg

    I've been putting these drain holes to good use as it's been so wet here. Everywhere is flooded so the bike seems to be spending more time underwater than not. At one point today I went through a 50 metre long flooded section. It was +3c temperature and still with several hours to go so I really didn't want to get my feet wet. As the water got to bottom bracket height and ever closer to coming over the tops of my Specialized Defroster winter boots with every pedal stroke it was touch and go. I just made it that time without soaking my feet!

    It's impressive how much water comes out of the frame post ride. There's usually a small lake of water pooling underneath from those drain holes. That's a lot better that the water does come out by itself. When water gets stuck inside a bike frame you end up having to pull the seatpost and turn the bike upside down to empty it out which is a lot more hassle.

    If you have Shimano brakes with the servo wave cam brake levers it's worth regularly oiling the servo wave cam and brake lever pivot. If you lie the bike on its side you can drop oil down onto the roller inside the brake lever. I use Finish Line Wet lube for this as it's quite thick so stays in place a bit longer than a thinner oil.

    What happens with the Shimano servo wave brakes if you don't oil them regularly is that the lever can get a bit stiff so you get a really defined notch and uneven brake power delivery. You start pulling the lever, it doesn't respond so you pull harder and then the servo wave cam moves and you suddenly end up pulling the brake lever too hard with the cam activated giving a grabby feel.

    When the servo wave cam is oiled and smooth it makes for a brake feel that's a lot smoother without that sudden transition. In this picture I've highlighted where the servo wave cam is.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-xt-servowave-brake-cam.jpg

    I've been really liking the Shimano Deore XT M8120 4 piston brakes. Big brakes on a little bike is a sweet combination.

    The reduction in hand pressure required between these and the 2 piston Shimano XT M8000 brakes for controlled braking is a big advantage for the four piston brakes. It takes a lot of hand fatigue away. And when you really do need to hit the brakes hard there's plenty of outright power too. I should have got some of these years ago.

  158. #758
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    Speaking of drain holes...

    While I was doing a post mud race rebuild this summer I found that the frame drain hole was drilled, but the innermost layer of carbon was not. It instead had chipped inward while being drilled; acting as a hinged flap which would not allow water out of the frame. Thus the bottom bracket/bearings were sitting in a pool of water. Check to make sure these drains are clear and functioning.

  159. #759
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    I am looking at a 2020 Oiz! Quick question, I see the handlebar listed as OC1 Flat 740mm for most models, is this a carbon bar?

  160. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerns bbo View Post
    Speaking of drain holes...

    While I was doing a post mud race rebuild this summer I found that the frame drain hole was drilled, but the innermost layer of carbon was not. It instead had chipped inward while being drilled; acting as a hinged flap which would not allow water out of the frame. Thus the bottom bracket/bearings were sitting in a pool of water. Check to make sure these drains are clear and functioning.
    It can be a real problem as many bikes don't have a proper drain hole for the bottom bracket. It's something that I've learnt has to be checked or it leads to issues later on. Riding in the UK there's plenty of opportunity for water to get in!

    My 2009 Specialized Epic had an aluminium sleeve inside its carbon fibre bottom bracket shell that the bearings pressed into. Over time it spent so much time filled with water that the aluminium sleeve rotted away from corrosion and split in half!

    This picture shows the inside of the bottom bracket shell of that bike. It had turned to dust!

    New Oiz-2009_epic_bottom_bracket_failure2.jpg

  161. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmasta View Post
    I am looking at a 2020 Oiz! Quick question, I see the handlebar listed as OC1 Flat 740mm for most models, is this a carbon bar?
    When you see an OC component that's an own brand Orbea part. The OC1 flat bar is an alloy bar not carbon.

    The higher end bikes come with FSA carbon fibre handle bars.

  162. #762
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    Pinkbike have done a review of a Orbea Oiz TR bike:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...g-xc-bike.html

    It's a bit of an odd one as the bike is a 2019 spec bike, rather than a 2020 spec bike.

    The main criticism of it compared to a Specialized Epic Evo seems to be that the Specialized Epic Evo has wider bars and a better dropper seatpost which makes it a better bike overall and more confidence inspiring downhill. I had to go and look this up to see what's going on as the FSA K-Force light bars that are on that test bike, and also the equivalent 2020 Orbea Oiz M-Ltd are 760mm wide. I've got a set of those in my garage!

    https://www.orbea.com/us-en/bicycles...t/oiz-29-m-ltd

    Anyway, when you go to the Specialized website and look up the 2020 Specialized S-Works Epic Evo that has a 760mm width handlebar too. The lower end non S-Works 2020 Specialized Epic Evo comes with a 750mm width handlebar.

    https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/s-...=264123-171228

    What I suspect is that it's probably the height of the front end they're really referring to. The stock S-Works Epic Evo has a higher headtube and a 10mm rise on the handlebar so the bars wouldn't be as low as on a stock Orbea Oiz of the same size. There would be a bit less weight over the front wheel when descending with the higher front end of the stock S-Works Epic Evo which could be more to their liking.

  163. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    Not to you OP... Not sure why having a different opinion has to be a fight. We're all on the same team here. Mtb enthusiasts. Ride however YOU like, 'better' is a relative term.

    That said, here's another data point on 100mm VS 120mm...

    I bought my bike as a 100/100. I test rode it back to back, swapping out the fork for 120mm. For my intended use of long long days in the saddle, I prefer 100/100. There was an adjustment needed for a lowish bottom bracket, but for my purposes, lightweight aggressive climbing and comfortable body position was more important than a little better DH chops. The 100/100 simply felt more comfortable and didn't drastically hold me back on trails, assuming wheels primarily stayed on the ground.

    For reference, I guess I'm a fairly fit weekend warrior that can ride. Just an average Joe who rides alot. My local trails are everything from green to double black and up or down (only flats is the road ride to the trails).

    I also have a 120/120 Revolver, which is my more rowdy ride. So for me, a 100/100 Oiz makes sense.

    So, to answer your original question, if it's your one and only bike I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle to change back and forth between suspension lengths. But really, only you can decide. Sorry, nothing is definitive in this world, especially advice off the internet.
    Thanks Buddy

    I've got an Evil Offering that's 160/141 with a 64 head angle and a 475 reach, with front and rear coils.

    And a 150mm Corix BFe with a 480 reach and probably a 62 head angle

    So the Oiz can easily be very XC for me

    The 100mm fork felt much better climbing for me, and just a bit better cornering with the lower center of gravity.

  164. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I've ridden both. Now I ride 120F/ 100R. There is no need for me to run anything else.

    I would never run 100/100 ever again. The 34SC is worlds better than the 32SC and raising the BB a few mm is a huge bonus.

    With a slacker HA, a stiffer fork for better steering, raised BB, and longer WB, there is no benefit to running a 100 mm front.
    Many thanks! I have not realized that 100mm model comes with 32SC, I completely agree that 34SC is much better.

  165. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    Not to you OP... Not sure why having a different opinion has to be a fight. We're all on the same team here. Mtb enthusiasts. Ride however YOU like, 'better' is a relative term.

    That said, here's another data point on 100mm VS 120mm...

    I bought my bike as a 100/100. I test rode it back to back, swapping out the fork for 120mm. For my intended use of long long days in the saddle, I prefer 100/100. There was an adjustment needed for a lowish bottom bracket, but for my purposes, lightweight aggressive climbing and comfortable body position was more important than a little better DH chops. The 100/100 simply felt more comfortable and didn't drastically hold me back on trails, assuming wheels primariy stayed on the ground.
    No fight for me, I am sorry that my question lead to such comments.

    Many thanks for the comments, I will definitely try 100mm version, but I like 34SC fork much more than 32, so I am still not sure. I was not thinking of changing the suspension on my bike, instead I thought about selling the bike and getting 100mm version.

  166. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by markopic View Post
    No fight for me, I am sorry that my question lead to such comments.

    Many thanks for the comments, I will definitely try 100mm version, but I like 34SC fork much more than 32, so I am still not sure. I was not thinking of changing the suspension on my bike, instead I thought about selling the bike and getting 100mm version.
    I bought a 100mm air shaft for my 34sc. Cost £40. Easy to fit.

  167. #767
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    Wanted to ask if someone has used the fitwheels.eu and to know if it's any good.

    Looking at the site it looks to have very good prices custom wheels.

    For example this wheel is the same as DT Swiss XR 1650 used by Orbea: https://fitwheels.eu/wheelset-dt-swi...80g-p-199.html

  168. #768
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    What length dropper should I get for my Oiz?
    I am getting a size large Oiz.
    My saddle height is 72.5 cm. Bikecad says I should have about 215mm of exposed post.
    Should I get 150mm travel or 125mm travel?
    The post will be an Rockshox AXS dropper.
    On paper the 150mm post should work (the fat part of the post is 33-34mm).
    Overall length of the 150mm travel post is 440. Overall length of the 125mm travel post is 390mm.
    Will I run into issues with the 440mm post bottoming out against the inside of the frame?
    I see the seat tube does bend- But the bend is down by the bottle cage mounts-

  169. #769
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    I have a size medium with 150mm dropper (don't know the total lenght because it's the one that came on the bike) and the thick part of the seatpost is 2,5 cm above the frame so I assume that it should be fine on a larger frame

  170. #770
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    Do you know what the length of the post is inside of the frame?


    Quote Originally Posted by RMOMTB View Post
    I have a size medium with 150mm dropper (don't know the total lenght because it's the one that came on the bike) and the thick part of the seatpost is 2,5 cm above the frame so I assume that it should be fine on a larger frame

  171. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    Do you know what the length of the post is inside of the frame?
    I found a technical drawing of the OC2 Dropper

    https://www.orbea.com/be-nl/support/...2-dropper-post

    page 57

    And this is how much it's sticking outside of the medium frame
    New Oiz-chrome_znms79jk9d.jpg

    So around 23 cm inside the frame if I'm correct

  172. #772
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    Thanks- this helps a lot.
    They say overall length on the OC2 is 466mm. The 150mm travel Reverb AXS dropper is 440mm.

    You said 23cm is inside your frame? What size frame do you have? Any idea if the post could go further into the frame before bottoming out?
    By my math, I should have 22.5cm of post inside the frame.
    I just want to make sure that I have a little wiggle room and that I purchase the correct size dropper post.
    If I drop down to the 125mm travel post, the overall length of the post is only 390mm. That would work for sure, but I am hoping to use the 150mm post that has an overall length of 440mm.


    Quote Originally Posted by RMOMTB View Post
    I found a technical drawing of the OC2 Dropper

    https://www.orbea.com/be-nl/support/...2-dropper-post

    page 57

    And this is how much it's sticking outside of the medium frame
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So around 23 cm inside the frame if I'm correct

  173. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    Thanks- this helps a lot.
    They say overall length on the OC2 is 466mm. The 150mm travel Reverb AXS dropper is 440mm.

    You said 23cm is inside your frame? What size frame do you have? Any idea if the post could go further into the frame before bottoming out?
    By my math, I should have 22.5cm of post inside the frame.
    I just want to make sure that I have a little wiggle room and that I purchase the correct size dropper post.
    If I drop down to the 125mm travel post, the overall length of the post is only 390mm. That would work for sure, but I am hoping to use the 150mm post that has an overall length of 440mm.
    I've a size medium. The bend in the frame starts around 23.5/24 cm so not much space left.

  174. #774
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    At 23.5-24cm it should work with the longer post.
    But perhaps I should get the bike before I buy the post-

    Quote Originally Posted by RMOMTB View Post
    I've a size medium. The bend in the frame starts around 23.5/24 cm so not much space left.

  175. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    At 23.5-24cm it should work with the longer post.
    But perhaps I should get the bike before I buy the post-
    Yes that's probably safest but if 466 fits on a medium bike I see no reason why 440 wouldn't fit on a large bike.

  176. #776
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    Good point.

  177. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    Thanks- this helps a lot.
    They say overall length on the OC2 is 466mm. The 150mm travel Reverb AXS dropper is 440mm.

    You said 23cm is inside your frame? What size frame do you have? Any idea if the post could go further into the frame before bottoming out?
    By my math, I should have 22.5cm of post inside the frame.
    I just want to make sure that I have a little wiggle room and that I purchase the correct size dropper post.
    If I drop down to the 125mm travel post, the overall length of the post is only 390mm. That would work for sure, but I am hoping to use the 150mm post that has an overall length of 440mm.
    On a size large Orbea Oiz frame the measurement from the top of seatpost clamp down to the bend in the frame seat tube is between 27.5cm and 28cm. Even if the tube was straight you couldn't go any lower than that because the seat tube bottle cage boss and nut is just below that point.

    With the Reverb AXS dropper how are you planning on arranging the controls? Can you map the dropper control onto the spare button of a right hand SRAM AXS shifter through software?

    Although you get rid of a cable using the Reverb AXS, which helps tidy the rats nest of cables on the front of the bike slightly, the Reverb AXS has a big wireless remote that sits underneath the bar on the left hand side. That's the same place that the Orbea Oiz has its squidlock remote lockout lever so you'd have two remotes competing for the same bit of handlebar room. How would you make that work?

  178. #778
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    The rear post mount brake on the Orbea Oiz frame is sized for a 160mm brake rotor. It doesn't use any adaptors so the brake caliper is bolted straight to the frame.

    I've had two different sets of brakes on this bike now, Shimano XTR M9100 Race and Shimano Deore XT M8120 both using sintered pads and the same Shimano XTR MT-900 Freeza Ice Tech centrelock brake rotors.

    With both brakes they were quiet in the dry but the slightest touch of moisture would see the back brake howling away at even the lightest touch. The XTR M9100 Race brakes were just as loud as the Shimano Deore XT M8120 brakes. Considering it's January in the UK there's a lot of moisture so a lot of howling.

    A few days ago I decided this needed sorting out as there was no sign of any bedding in or reduction in noise levels.

    Steps I took:

    - thoroughly cleaned brake rotors with disc brake rotor cleaner
    - sanded down brake pads to take top layer off
    - filed edges of the slots in brake rotors with metal file to take any sharp edges off
    - chamfered edges of brake pads with metal file to give a smoother contact with the rotor
    - filed a few mm off the edge of the XT M8120 rear brake caliper to ensure it wasn't touching the carbon fibre seat stay.

    Those are all general steps but on my bike the Shimano rear brake caliper was about 1mm too low for the Shimano brake rotor. From the wear marks on the rear rotor the brake pads were striking slightly too low, beneath the braking surface, so would be contacting the edges of the brake rotor spokes. That looks to me like what the issue was. I put some 1mm washers under the brake caliper to raise it up so the brake pads wouldn't go below the braking surface and since then there's been a massive reduction in brake noise to about what I'd expect as normal.

    I thought that was worth mentioning specifically as if anyone's having issues with rear brake noise on an Orbea Oiz that brake pad / rotor alignment is something to check.

    New Oiz-2020-orbea-oiz-rear-brake-rotor.jpg

  179. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptormig View Post
    Wanted to ask if someone has used the fitwheels.eu and to know if it's any good.

    Looking at the site it looks to have very good prices custom wheels.

    For example this wheel is the same as DT Swiss XR 1650 used by Orbea: https://fitwheels.eu/wheelset-dt-swi...80g-p-199.html
    That company is in Poland. The prices do seem good at 489 euro for those DT Swiss wheels with a microspline freehub.

    Looking around fitwheels.eu seems to be a legit company not a fake scam site. It's not one I've ever bought wheels from so I can't say how good they are though.

    https://www.google.com/maps/search/B....3713588,8.75z

    https://www.facebook.com/fitwheels.eu/

    https://singletrackworld.com/forum/t...-fitwheels-eu/

    The same wheels from Wheelbuilder.com with a microspline freehub for comparison would be $911 USD (824.40 euro) so a lot more.

    https://wheelbuilder.com/wheels/cust...stom-mountain/

    (I'm not suggesting you buy the wheels from Wheelbuilder.com as the customs fees and shipping makes it way too expensive if you don't live in the US. They just have a nice wheel configurator for speccing the wheels. )

  180. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    bootsie_cat: With the Reverb AXS dropper how are you planning on arranging the controls? Can you map the dropper control onto the spare button of a right hand SRAM AXS shifter through software?

    Although you get rid of a cable using the Reverb AXS, which helps tidy the rats nest of cables on the front of the bike slightly, the Reverb AXS has a big wireless remote that sits underneath the bar on the left hand side. That's the same place that the Orbea Oiz has its squidlock remote lockout lever so you'd have two remotes competing for the same bit of handlebar room. How would you make that work?
    I was thinking a bit about this whilst doing my turbo trainer ride today.

    SRAM Eagle AXS Compatibility
    It turns out that although the SRAM Eagle AXS right hand wireless shifter has three buttons there are only two configurable shift buttons. The third button is a small button to enable an adjustment mode that can't be used for anything else.

    New Oiz-sram-eagle-axs-app.jpg

    The SRAM Eagle AXS right hand wireless shifter has a paddle that allows an up and down shift using your thumb. What is mentioned in some of the reviews as the knuckle button is part of this paddle. Its function is to allow a press of the upper paddle from the front of the handlebar, rather than being a separate button in its own right (imagine the two way release upshift function on a Shimano trigger shifter). The picture above shows the shifter from the side.

    New Oiz-sram-eagle-axs-buttons.jpg

    Within the SRAM AXS configuration app the different buttons can have different functions assigned - either gear shifting or activating the Reverb AXS wireless seatpost. The Reverb AXS wireless seatpost can be mapped to a different button, it isn't limited to just the left hand wireless dropper remote control that comes with the seatpost.

    This is the SRAM AXS compatibility map (click on the picture for larger version)

    pdf: https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/...components.pdf

    New Oiz-sram-eagle-axs-compatibility-map.jpg

    I'd hoped it might be possible to use a SRAM Etap AXS blip box for the Reverb AXS wireless seatpost but according to the compatibility map it isn't possible to mix and match different types of shifters within an AXS system. You couldn't use a blip for the seatpost and then the MTB Eagle AXS right hand shifter for the gears.

    What that means on a mountain bike is you either have to use the MTB shifter and Reverb underbar remote or you could possibly go all in on a SRAM Etap AXS blip box, using the blip box under the stem and wired blips on the bars for both the seatpost and rear derailleur. That would be quite a neat setup.

    Edit: It might work with a blip box for the seatpost and the MTB Eagle AXS right hand shifter for the gears. You'd set them up as two separate systems that weren't wirelessly linked to each other (Etap AXS blip box + Reverb AXS seatpost as one major component and then MTB Eagle AXS right hand shifter + Eagle AXS rear derailleur as another major component so you'd have two different "bikes" visible in the AXS app that work independently of one another).

    Other Options
    There are a few other options to consider as well.

    - The Orbea Squidlock remote lever could be flipped 90 degrees and mounted up on the top of the right hand side of the handlebar, so that your right hand controls both the gears and suspension lockouts whilst your left hand controls the Reverb seatpost

    - Rock Shox do a grip shift style remote lockout lever (eg: on Trek Top Fuel) that would let you lock out and open the fork and rear shock together (2 position only) whilst leaving the bar space free for the Reverb wireless remote. Orbea's come with Fox suspension so it would need researching as to whether the amount of cable pull would work.

    New Oiz-2019-rockshox-twistloc-remote-lockout-1.jpg

    https://bikerumor.com/2018/04/10/new...hock-controls/

    - The remote lockouts could be removed from the shocks entirely and the suspension used fully open with no lock outs.

    - There was a recent Pinkbike article about possible tech for 2020 that was dropping heavy hints about Rock Shox (SRAM) releasing suspension with wireless remote lockouts on the shocks, which could mean some additional wireless controls with more buttons to use.

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  182. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerns bbo View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    That's quite a neat SRAM Reverb AXS wireless remote setup on the Scott Spark with the SRAM blipbox hidden inside the frame and spiral wrap for the single wire up to the blip button for the dropper embedded in the left grip. The Scott Twinlock remote lever is in place under the bar and unobstructed.

    New Oiz-sram-reverb-axs-dropper-blip.jpg

    I think you could do the same layout on an Orbea Oiz with the blip box in the same position. The Orbea cable ports are maybe a little smaller so it could be trickier to reach inside for the pairing button but you wouldn't need to do that often.

  183. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post

    I thought that was worth mentioning specifically as if anyone's having issues with rear brake noise on an Orbea Oiz that brake pad / rotor alignment is something to check.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2020 Orbea Oiz Rear Brake Rotor.jpg 
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    THanks for this. I have also had problems with rear brake rub. Everything has to be EXACTLY right or it rubs. I can get it quiet while on the workstand but it still rubs some while riding.

  184. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnm65 View Post
    THanks for this. I have also had problems with rear brake rub. Everything has to be EXACTLY right or it rubs. I can get it quiet while on the workstand but it still rubs some while riding.
    What brakes have you got? Are they brand new? Some brakes have less of a pad rotor gap than others. SRAM tend to have less of a gap and take more effort to get aligned whilst new Shimano brakes are usually a lot easier to do.

    Something to check if it's really hard to get the brakes to not rub on a new bike is to take the rear brake caliper off completely and have a look at the post mount surfaces on the frame. On my bike they haven't been faced so there's a mixture of bare metal around the threads and then paint that has been applied on the sides with visible marks in the paint where the brake caliper has pressed on it. It's not a great finish to the brake mounts and is something on my (fairly long) to do list of things for the next time I take it to the bike shop.

    If you have the same it would be worth having the brake mounts faced to make sure they're actually flat. Facing the brake mounts would get the caliper squarer with the brake rotor making it easier to align.

    What I try and do is do the disk brake alignment outdoors in daylight so the gap becomes obvious. A sheet of white paper on the floor beneath the bike looking down through the caliper can help show where the rotor needs to be too. It's being able to see where the gaps are that's key.

    As they get older sticking pistons and warped brake rotors make it harder to get disk brakes aligned. Truing the brake rotor to make it as straight as possible can help, as well as using some silicone spray to clean around the brake pistons (with the pads removed) to try and make sure the pistons are moving smoothly and evenly.

  185. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    What brakes have you got?
    I have the Shimano XT8000 that came stock. Thanks for the tips. I rode yesterday and had no issues with brake rub even in muddy conditions but it it persists I plan to take it into the shop and have them take a look.

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