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  1. #1
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    Tour De France 2017 thread

    Hi TDF fans. It's almost go time. Please share the ongoing drama here if you feel so inclined.

    Tour de France 2017
    I'm not sure how this works.

  2. #2
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    I wasn't aware that this race still happens

  3. #3
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    Yup! Every year since 1984 I think.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  4. #4
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    So do you guys draft each other when you head down Braille? Who's usually the domestique in the Thursday Gap rides?

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    Mountain bike forum.....don't care about cheaters....

  6. #6
    NRP
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    Are any Americans competitive in the TDF? I used to have coworker who was into road biking and he always kept us stoked about the TDF. He's since retired, so I don't have a clue anymore.

  7. #7
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    I love ebike races

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  8. #8
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    eBikes+dope=KOM
    I'm not sure how this works.

  9. #9
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    I've got my VPN modem and Eurosport login ready to go on the 1st.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRP View Post
    Are any Americans competitive in the TDF? I used to have coworker who was into road biking and he always kept us stoked about the TDF. He's since retired, so I don't have a clue anymore.
    I think the US was banned from the TDF...something about dope?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Yup! Every year since 1903 I think.
    Fixed it for you

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS-KR View Post
    Fixed it for you
    HAHA! Dude, bikes weren't even invented until 1956 or something! Nice try.

    And then there is this:

    Here comes the Tour de France, the world's greatest bike race - Business Insider
    I'm not sure how this works.

  13. #13
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    Tour de France 1903, Giro d'Italia 1909, Vuelta Espaa 1937. Mostly uninterrupted except for the WWs shit.

  14. #14
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    Agree to disagree.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Yup! Every year since 1984 I think.
    But only every 4 years, unless it's a leap year.



    I'll probably watch the end of a few stages, but I just assume the winners are e-doping (although a few guys from the poorer teams will do it the old-fashioned way).
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  16. #16
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    You know what...who cares if they are doping or using motors. It's one badass, seriously dangerous event. It is brutal and these guys are to top of the food chain (pardon the pun) when it comes to cycling. And I'm not gay but Segan is pretty hot. And don't even get me started on the landscapes.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  17. #17
    Dark Meat
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    Where is the race this year?

  18. #18
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    I never missed one, but I quit in the late 90', when doping became the norm.

    Doped or not they are savages. My idol Indurain had a bpm of 28 when not doing sport

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Where is the race this year?
    Gilroy

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    I'm not sure how this works.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Where is the race this year?
    It's called the TdF, bro.



    (Fresno)
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  21. #21
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    If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. F*ck haters. The Tour is the ultimate test of human potential. I will be posting often.
    T275a

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_G View Post
    Mountain bike forum.....don't care about cheaters....
    I cheated on my wife.

    Oops, did I type that out loud? Oh well, she was bound to find out sooner or later.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    eBikes+dope=KOM
    Ha ha HAAA!!!
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

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  24. #24
    NRP
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    Dope or not, pro bike racers are simply badass mofos.

  25. #25
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    The more drugs, the better the spectacle. Go EPO

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Where is the race this year?
    They start in Germany, Luxembourg and Belgium. Then France. They always try to share the stoke (=do some cash)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS-KR View Post
    Tour de France 1903, Giro d'Italia 1909, Vuelta Espaa 1937. Mostly uninterrupted except for the WWs shit.
    Nope, Squashyo's correct. The very first TDF was organized in 1984 after several prominent Mt. Bikers got together to attempt a race on skinny tires somewhere in France. The first edition had most of the riders completing 3 complete circuits of Disneyland Paris, then meeting up after the race at Le' Rouge Lantern for burritos and microbrews... Americans won most of the editions since then until they were barred for being faster than everyone else.

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  28. #28
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    The TDF just ain't the same without Zabriskie

  29. #29
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    Forget the TDF. We have a norcal dude, Brian Lucido leading the tour divide right now! http://trackleaders.com/tourdivide17f.php


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Forget the TDF. We have a norcal dude, Brian Lucido leading the tour divide right now! Tour Divide 2017 live tracking app by trackleaders.com


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    Wow ... is the Fresno race TDF more of a sprint and the divide more long endurance style? If its all about the footies ... the Divide wins eh? Congrats shout out to Brian who appears to be reasonably fit!
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    The TDF just ain't the same without Zabriskie
    I always liked Zamboni and Sambora.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  32. #32
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    The toughest bike race in the world! Is not in France

    Tour Divide 2017 live tracker by trackleaders.com

  33. #33
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    First TDF were actually a real tour of the country and were 4000 miles long. Stages would start at 4-5am and would last 200 miles.

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  34. #34
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    Only one world biking event makes you get the tattoo for first place for the man and the woman winner! SSWC 2017. AHHH ... damn Rebels!
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  35. #35
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    I'm In.

    Tour De France 2017 thread-livesmokestrong.jpg

  36. #36
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    I'm not sure how this works.

  37. #37
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    Nairo's my man!

    Tour De France 2017 thread-quintana-has-won-giro-ditalia-vuelta-espaa-start-year-he-said-he-wanted.jpg

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by akdmx View Post
    Nice!
    Just gave ya some rep.

  40. #40
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    NBC Sports has a pretty good streaming package which gets you the Tour and 25 other races including the UCI Road and MTB world championships. Only $39.99

    NBC Sports Gold | NBC Sports

  41. #41
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    I need to get back into it. Hopefully this year, I can regain some enthusiasm for the TdF. I used to be a huge fan.

    I am looking forward to the Tour de Pharma though. With Samberg in it, it will doubtless be over the top.
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

  42. #42
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    Watching riding cuts down on my actual riding.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Where is the race this year?
    Belmont.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Belmont.
    Wrong sport
    I'm not sure how this works.

  45. #45
    Hella Olde
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    Legalize doping, but require those that choose to blood/epo/hgh dope also be baaaaaked. That would suck.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Wrong sport
    There are no wrong sports.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    There are no wrong sports.
    Competitive cat juggling?

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    I'm not sure how this works.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Competitive cat juggling?
    What is wrong with that?

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  49. #49
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    If not for DVR's I wouldn't be interested. I watch 60% for the European scenery; 40% for the racing crap.

    In the meanwhile we should be talking about the recent America's Cup; that was well enjoyed thanks to DVR.

    Go Kiwi's! (bicycle powered!) The previous race was very much NorCal before anybody claims about this being OT.

    (spoiler alert)

    Team Oracle suuuucked.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Competitive cat juggling?

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  51. #51
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    T275a

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inter71 View Post
    That's awesome...he's going to critic and poke fun at everyone

  53. #53
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    Im with Moe Ped. Helicopter shots are the best. Small town fans always find a cool way to express pride, hay bales, human signs, mowing fields, naked runners. I watch an hour at 6am every day while i eat oatmeal and get ready for commute. Then I watch 45-60 min in evening recorded. I enjoy the scenery, commentary. The last few years its been a bit less fun to watch, with super teams. I am hoping that the course this year makes for some lead changes, or closer GC time spreads for leaders. The last few years have had almost no lead changes or attacks. Less excitement. I keep hoping for Clean Bottle Mascot to get into a fight with some crazy costume guy or Chalk Bot driver.

  54. #54
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    Well the first stage wasn't exactly something that would make me want to visit Dsseldorf.

    Dreary.

    And what was up with no hay bales (or something?) on the outside of those sharp corners?
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  55. #55
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    Another wet day; one big crash but seems like everybody got back up.

    American Taylor Phinney was out in front all day until just seconds from the sprint finish. Go Taylor. Only 3 Americans this year if I heard correctly.

    Winner Kittel is running disc brakes; that's pretty big news.

    Phil having to break up an argument between Bob and Paul. Epic

    In spite of the rain some pretty good scenery, I liked those shots from the copter skimming the crops.

    And now I know there's a neanderthal museum!
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  56. #56
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    About time roadies discover disks.

  57. #57
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    This would be so unwatchable without recording with skip commercial button. They sure do drive those ads into your skull.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  58. #58
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    I'm not sure how this works.

  59. #59
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    Sagan kicked out of TDF!

    Not sure if you guys watched today, tough call IMO. Thoughts? It seems to me, it was a tight squeeze for Cavendish. I'm not sure the elbow makes contact, regardless he is out😥
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  60. #60
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    That was pretty crazy. Commentators were arguing it both ways--seemed like the majority of riders thought Sagan was to blame. Hard to say if the elbow was intentional or just a reaction to contact. If it was the NBA I'd call it a flagrant 1. C'est la vie!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 07-04-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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  61. #61
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    Good.

  62. #62
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    Now I have no reason to watch.

  63. #63
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    For those lost.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....crash.amp.html

    He deserves being disqualified for such unsportsmanlike conduct.
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  64. #64
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    Rubbing is racing. Hate to see him out, but you can't let that go.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    For those lost.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....crash.amp.html

    He deserves being disqualified for such unsportsmanlike conduct.


    Why not show the photo of Cav forcing his way in from behind? Bad stuff happens when you make the questionable decision to try and come from behind using the barrier line.

  66. #66
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    To me, still a tough call. Watching it again, maybe there is a push. Still a very tight line to get through though.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    To me, still a tough call. Watching it again, maybe there is a push. Still a very tight line to get through though.
    Yeah I didn't watch the race and in that footage it's hard to tell exactly what happened. They must be seeing a deliberate elbow though to disqualify him.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  68. #68
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    Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.
    Oh, not that Sagan.
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  69. #69
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  70. #70
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Wrong crash lol that was stage 2.
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  72. #72
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    From the front angle, it's iffy at best. When they show it from above, it's more obvious that he "threw" n elbow. No question about it. I agree you can't let that go.
    Carpe Diem!!

  73. #73
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    This picture might be the best shot.

    Contact? Looks like it.
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  74. #74
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    Absolute garbage. Cav was going down before Sagan's elbow came up. There was no hole. The UCI rushed to judgement. Whose genius idea was it to dq the most popular rider in the world?
    T275a

  75. #75
    heaven help me
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    All the other sprinters arms are tuck in, except for Sagan's right arm. Deliberate.

  76. #76
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    It looks like Cav's brake lever hooked his arm to me.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inter71 View Post
    Absolute garbage. Cav was going down before Sagan's elbow came up. There was no hole. The UCI rushed to judgement. Whose genius idea was it to dq the most popular rider in the world?
    Exactly how I see it too. I hope some teams boycott the Tour; it could be their star rider the next time.
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  78. #78
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    In this one sprint alone there were other riders changing "lanes" and endangering other riders... unfortunate for Cavendish

    Another view: Ook Cavendish uit de Tour: gebroken schouderblad | NOS Tour de France
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    In this one sprint alone there were other riders changing "lanes" and endangering other riders... unfortunate for Cavendish

    Another view: Ook Cavendish uit de Tour: gebroken schouderblad | NOS Tour de France
    Yeah, they are both great athletes, they shook hands after, Sagan went to see if Cavendish was OK.
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  80. #80
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    Cav may have been going down slightly before the camera shows the elbow coming out, but that's only because Sagan was already in the process of running him into the barriers. Watch this replay, not just at the moment of the elbow but the few seconds leading up to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwZsxukSL8

    They are more or less side by side, there's plenty of space for both, Sagan then squeezes Cav right into the barriers, Cav sees it coming and tries to lean into it but it's too late, he bounces of Sagan's shoulder and Sagan flicks the elbow out for good measure.

    Dunno about a DQ, but it certainly wasn't fair play.

  81. #81
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    That's sprinting. Cavendish tried to squeeze by, there wasn't room. He leaned in on Sagan before Sagan leaned back. There aren't to many riders in a sprint who are going to let the other guy thru in a situation like that. I can see Sagan maybe getting relegated to last place, but getting kicked out is excessive.

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    I've seen Cavendish do a lot more than that and get away with it.

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    Look at this video. You can clearly see Cavendish pushing Sagan with his head before the elbow came out. He also started falling before Sagan's elbow came out. The elbow came out afterwards, along with the Sagan's leg, to keep his balance after being head butted in the side by Cavendish. I would guess Cavendish did this to push Sagan away to make clear space between Sagan and the curb but it backfired because this caused the elbow to come out which pushed him down. Or Sagan did those body maneuvers to avoid the falling Cavendish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I've seen Cavendish do a lot more than that and get away with it.
    ^ I was just about to post the same thing. I've watched it several times, from several angles, and think it is complete bull. That wreck was all Cav, trying to force his way up from behind. Sagan just reacted, and Cav would've done the same thing. You hold your line, or you lose by checking up to avoid the crash. I'm pretty surprised they came to that conclusion, and that punishment.

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    Cavendish is OK!!
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    Lets face it, Peter got screwed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    Lets face it, Peter got screwed.
    Why would the organisers do that ? Sagan is arguably a bigger pull for viewers than anyone else in the tour, especially as this stage of things with sprints, so kicking him out just for fun would be insanity. They obviously saw things and likely interviewed the riders.
    Me personally, i'm not convinced it was enough to be kicked out.

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    Breaking news; human beings are really competitive when there's shit tons of money on the line. Story at 11.

    As others have said, Cavendish has done the same or worse himself. I don't think Sagan should have been DQ'd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    Breaking news; human beings are really competitive when there's shit tons of money on the line. Story at 11.

    As others have said, Cavendish has done the same or worse himself. I don't think Sagan should have been DQ'd.
    My thoughts exactly. Follow the money.

    Yes elbow went out but Cav was already on his way down. Reflexive perhaps? Sagan was drifting right but he was originally following the wheel of Demare (who went left to take the win).
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    Bumping and banging in a finish sprint is the norm. Cav has been as bad about it as anyone. Didn't look all that egregious to me.

    Good take on it from Velonews. Why the jury is wrong on Sagan's DSQ | VeloNews.com

    This one will be debated for awhile. In the meantime, it's too late for Sagan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    For those lost.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....crash.amp.html

    He deserves being disqualified for such unsportsmanlike conduct.
    The elbow never made contact. Cav was going down before Sagan's elbow had a chance to impede him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    Look at this video. You can clearly see Cavendish pushing Sagan with his head before the elbow came out. He also started falling before Sagan's elbow came out. The elbow came out afterwards, along with the Sagan's leg, to keep his balance after being head butted in the side by Cavendish. I would guess Cavendish did this to push Sagan away to make clear space between Sagan and the curb but it backfired because this caused the elbow to come out which pushed him down. Or Sagan did those body maneuvers to avoid the falling Cavendish.

    Nice break down on that video. 👍

    Bad decision to DQ him.
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    I agree with Velo News' take on it.

    Why the jury is wrong on Sagan's DSQ | VeloNews.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Nice break down on that video.

    Bad decision to DQ him.
    Look how close Cav's front wheel gets to Sagan's. It looks like the elbow was a natural reaction of self-preservation.


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    Have ⚽ histrionics crept into bicycling? Inquiry tonight @ 11.

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    Oh, I just read about DQ and elbows and such. The drama.

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    This is BS. Sagan had a right to ride his line. He does not have to move over to accommodate anyone's ambitions. Cavendish does this crap from time to time and gets away with it or comes off as the victim, tries to squeeze into spaces that are clearly not there and forces other riders to check up. This is the same guy who rode into another rider in the Olympics and put him in hospital and then feigned ignorance.

    This is a ridiculous decision.

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    Seems completely ridiculous IMO, but roadies are weird. Cav got a taste of his own medicine for that shit at the Olympics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    Seems completely ridiculous IMO, but roadies are weird.


    I must admit that slow motion break down vid. gives a whole new perspective into what really took place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post


    I must admit that slow motion break down vid. gives a whole new perspective into what really took place.
    Yep. A lot of people just saw the freeze frame of the head-on shot or the video at full speed and immediately crucified Sagan. But even watching it in real time yesterday, I was fairly confident Sagan was at little fault if any because the helicopter shot showed that Cav was being very ambitious with his move.

    So I was really surprised to wake up this morning and find out Sagan had been disqualified but with the UCI, you just never know what politics are going on behind the scenes. Shame really.
    Last edited by Brodino; 07-06-2017 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Updated info

  102. #102
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    Cav runs into Sagan on an ambitious move. This knocks Sagan off balance and he reacts. Cav protests and Sagan gets kicked off tour. Total BS.
    Some fault my lie on Sagan and a fine+penalty seems appropriate. Done with watching the tour this year. I'll still catch up on the highlights but the sprints are garbage now.

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    ^^ I think that's far from definitive, especially at that angle. Regardless, I think he got the DQ for his line change, not the elbow.
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  104. #104
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    ^
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...nce-stage-four

    Tour De France 2017 thread-screen-shot-2017-07-05-4.51.01-pm.jpgTour De France 2017 thread-screen-shot-2017-07-05-4.52.53-pm.jpg

    lines...they were all zigzagging, especially the leader who cut left after pulling everyone right and almost nipped the front wheel of another rider.

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    And why wasn't Dmare DQ'ed? Looks like he clearly cut off Bouhanni, who, instead of sticking out his elbow to stabilize himself, had to stop pedaling and use body french to keep balanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yeah I didn't watch the race and in that footage it's hard to tell exactly what happened. They must be seeing a deliberate elbow though to disqualify him.
    Honestly I don't see the malicious elbow. It looks like he extended his elbow to balance himself after the crash began. Then again, I'm armchair QB'ing and I don't ride in the TDF.

    Hard to say, but it's bicycle racing, and things happen.

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    I don't think the elbow made contact, Cavendish was on his way down before the elbow came up. Sagan's left leg came way out to re-establish his balance as the elbow was coming down, none of that would have happened if he had't been pushed off balance.

    If the elbow is the only thing that caused him to get tossed they made a bad call. I did read some where that they thought Sagan was involved in the earlier crash??? I haven't seen anything else about that thought.

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    All I am saying is give pizza chants

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    Quote Originally Posted by weeksy950 View Post
    Why would the organisers do that ? Sagan is arguably a bigger pull for viewers than anyone else in the tour
    Because there's a young Frenchman who's doing well in the sprints. Why let a chance to eliminate two of his top competitors slide by?

    Conspiracy aside, Sagan was blocking, and the result was a horrific crash causing Cav to be eliminated from the tour. His expulsion is fair. Sagan had no reason to move over there other than to block. The elbow was definitely not the cause....he would have gone down too if he didn't push off to keep his balance.

    I have a hard time with the Tour. I've always followed it, but everyone pretending that Lance never existed is annoying...especially when you have proven dopers filling the field to this day. I enjoy the spectacle, and the competition, but the organization is obviously corrupt, so it's hard to get too invested anymore.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    LOL... well played

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    If we take out who we "like", it's bad decision. That slowmo video is very clear.
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    yep! Not even a penalty. I keep wondering why they are inconsistent, if they are focused on a single bunch sprint. Demare was all over the road.

    I guess UCI doesn't really surprise me.

  113. #113
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    I don't think he moved his arm. Cav's head is forward and against or right next to Sagan's arm, with Cav moving faster, and their front wheels appear to be even when Cav bites it. I think Cav's arm / shoulder forced Sagan's arm forward, which had the appearance of being a thrown elbow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    ...Sagan was blocking, and the result was a horrific crash causing Cav to be eliminated from the tour. His expulsion is fair. Sagan had no reason to move over there other than to block. The elbow was definitely not the cause....he would have gone down too if he didn't push off to keep his balance.

    .
    I am not sure if you have seen the video but there was no blocking involved. Sagan did not cause the crash, Cav did by trying to squeeze into a gap that was not there. Almost every opinion and poll that I have seen overwhelmingly supports that position. The only thing that maybe can be pinned on Sagan is that he moved his racing line, but so did at 3 others including the eventual winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
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    LoL.

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    One word: Cinzano!
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  118. #118
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    Sagan a touch too much? What did the riders surrounding the crash have to say?
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  119. #119
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    Watched Video Endlessly...

    Cav attempted the impossible squeeze.... it backfired on him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    ...What did the riders surrounding the crash have to say?
    Most have been silent so far or have just alluded to the fact that it is not good to have both riders out of the tour when asked to comment, which is another way of saying they do not agree with it. Greipel came out strong at first and said he would not talk to Sagan again, then he saw the video and promptly apologized to Sagan.

  121. #121
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    Kind of explains the elbow thing, eh?

    Tour De France 2017 thread-sagan-cav.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Kind of explains the elbow thing, eh?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Damn. TDF officials that kicked him should be fired.

  123. #123
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    TDF officials did f-up

    Cav f-up

    Sagan might have kept his elbow in more and it would not have been noticed

    or if no elbow Cav might have been able to lean on Sagan a sec longer
    and they'd both stay up

    Sagan elbow did shut the door on any chance of recovery after Cav f-up...maybe that is
    the root of it. Sagan also had a ton of room on the left if he wanted it, and could have bounced off Cav to the left.

    but in a finish sprint, rubbin is racing. Cav 100% screwed up, and Sagan....if he didn't
    move his elbow out -as far- it would be a different story. to dq the current world champ from the tdf on a messy finish line sprint ? travesty

  124. #124
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    Let them race. Blocking is part of racing in any sport.


    TDF is becoming more like F1 every year. Boring.

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    For who is the fix in this year? Has to be someone big to DQ the world champ and such a popular rider like Sagan.

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    Cav is chicken-shit. That post race interview says a lot with his sheepish attitude. He acted like everybody knew that he shit the bed but he wasn't going to say anything. I have little respect for him, now. Even less for the officials that DQ'd Sagan. Cav should take up Soccer. His actions remind me of those guys when they draw their fake fouls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    For who is the fix in this year? Has to be someone big to DQ the world champ and such a popular rider like Sagan.
    Sagan is an insane force. It's the only way they can get to him.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodino View Post
    I am not sure if you have seen the video but there was no blocking involved. Sagan did not cause the crash, Cav did by trying to squeeze into a gap that was not there. Almost every opinion and poll that I have seen overwhelmingly supports that position. The only thing that maybe can be pinned on Sagan is that he moved his racing line, but so did at 3 others including the eventual winner.
    I watched it live, and have seen all the angles. I couldn't care less what anyone's opinion may be.

    I get the support though. Everybody loves pretty boy Sagan. He can do no wrong in most people's eyes. I have a fair amount of experience with what was taking place there, and in my opinion, Sagan took him to the fence. Yeah, it's racing, it happens all the time, but he was in the wrong, and with the result being Cav having to pull out, expelling Sagan is the right thing to do.


    .

  129. #129
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    It was a rushed uneducated decision. Of course at full speed it looks ugly, but the organizers should have paused, and clearly review every angle of this prior to any penalties, which in my eyes, it should have been zero.

    I agree that Cav should have been a man about it, and said something. Especially after Sagan, went right after to check on him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Let them race. Blocking is part of racing in any sport.


    TDF is becoming more like F1 every year. Boring.
    I agree. Though I think in F1 this would incur a penalty on Cav for causing an accident.

  131. #131
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    Nacer Bouhanni make a more aggressive moves and line changes in almost every sprint. Here's a quote from a FDJ rider: "Bouhanni is an idiot. He didnt just pass me, he also put his knee into my bars. Hes a dick, hes always making people crash. We know hes like that. Hes probably upset with us because he always loses"


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    I guess I don't get why Cycling doesn't do as other sports do. For instance, MLB players appeal a suspension immediately and can continue to play while the facts are gathered and reviewed.

    Why couldn't the team and then the race jury have done similar? What would have been the harm in allowing him to continue to race and if a suspension is upheld upon review, nullify any wins and points after the fact? If his appeal is upheld then he has his race results and can still contend for the overall and any points, finishes, etc.

    The immediate suspension takes everything off the table.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    I watched it live, and have seen all the angles. I couldn't care less what anyone's opinion may be.

    I get the support though. Everybody loves pretty boy Sagan. He can do no wrong in most people's eyes. I have a fair amount of experience with what was taking place there, and in my opinion, Sagan took him to the fence. Yeah, it's racing, it happens all the time, but he was in the wrong, and with the result being Cav having to pull out, expelling Sagan is the right thing to do.


    .
    So, Demare moves right, Sagan moves right to avoid having his front wheel chopped by Demare, Cav gets his bars caught and starts going down, and it's Sagan's fault?

    Sagan literally did nothing besides move in reaction to the rider in front of him.

    He did nothing dangerous or intentionally harmful to another rider. Which, if you read the rule under which he was expelled from the race, that's what they claimed he did.

    Any serious review of the footage, not to mention the picture I posted a few hours ago, would show that there was no malice and no intent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I guess I don't get why Cycling doesn't do as other sports do. For instance, MLB players appeal a suspension immediately and can continue to play while the facts are gathered and reviewed.

    Why couldn't the team and then the race jury have done similar? What would have been the harm in allowing him to continue to race and if a suspension is upheld upon review, nullify any wins and points after the fact? If his appeal is upheld then he has his race results and can still contend for the overall and any points, finishes, etc.

    The immediate suspension takes everything off the table.
    Well, the UCI race jury violated UCI rules by not allowing him to participate in the hearing. Which they are required to do.

    Which is why Bora-Hansgrohe took the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, and will probably be suing the UCI for damages now.

    They are going to lose millions of dollars in advertising dollars from this. As will Specialized, 100%, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    I watched it live, and have seen all the angles. I couldn't care less what anyone's opinion may be.

    I get the support though. Everybody loves pretty boy Sagan. He can do no wrong in most people's eyes. I have a fair amount of experience with what was taking place there, and in my opinion, Sagan took him to the fence. Yeah, it's racing, it happens all the time, but he was in the wrong, and with the result being Cav having to pull out, expelling Sagan is the right thing to do.


    .
    This is 100% correct, Sagan before the contact moved to the right to block Cav. He did not have to, Cav used poor judgement to try to make the move and continued to force his way through which resulted in the bar under the shoulder. Totally Cav's fault for the crash, but Sagan chose his actions as well. He is my favorite rider but the DQ was justified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    I watched it live, and have seen all the angles. I couldn't care less what anyone's opinion may be.

    I get the support though. Everybody loves pretty boy Sagan. He can do no wrong in most people's eyes. I have a fair amount of experience with what was taking place there, and in my opinion, Sagan took him to the fence. Yeah, it's racing, it happens all the time, but he was in the wrong, and with the result being Cav having to pull out, expelling Sagan is the right thing to do.

    .
    I will take you at your word for your experience but I think the people commentating on this and arriving at the conclusion that Sagan did not deserve to get kicked out have a fair bit of experience too. Besides what should be telling is Greipel saying one thing, then watching the video, and then sending apologies to Sagan, that should speak volumes.

    If this was a 50-50 deal, Sagan would be being pilloried but he is not, and the reason is not because he is a pretty boy as you wrote. Also if the standard is if you hurt someone, then you deserve expulsion, well, Cav hurt another rider in the Olympics and did not get expelled. He got his medal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodino View Post
    I will take you at your word for your experience but I think the people commentating on this and arriving at the conclusion that Sagan did not deserve to get kicked out have a fair bit of experience too. Besides what should be telling is Greipel saying one thing, then watching the video, and then sending apologies to Sagan, that should speak volumes.

    If this was a 50-50 deal, Sagan would be being pilloried but he is not, and the reason is not because he is a pretty boy as you wrote. Also if the standard is if you hurt someone, then you deserve expulsion, well, Cav hurt another rider in the Olympics and did not get expelled. He got his medal.
    Yeah, I've been a CAT 1 road racer for most of a decade now.

    And, this is what Andre Greipel said about the matter:



    Read more at Greipel initially de-friends Sagan over elbow, then recants | VeloNews.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    So, Demare moves right, Sagan moves right to avoid having his front wheel chopped by Demare, Cav gets his bars caught and starts going down, and it's Sagan's fault?

    Sagan literally did nothing besides move in reaction to the rider in front of him.

    He did nothing dangerous or intentionally harmful to another rider. Which, if you read the rule under which he was expelled from the race, that's what they claimed he did.

    Any serious review of the footage, not to mention the picture I posted a few hours ago, would show that there was no malice and no intent.
    If you watch the video from an earlier starting point, it's clear Sagan is taking Cav to the fence. Cav leans into him with his head because he can see the momentum of the situation is going to make him wreck. Sagan bulls on through and pushes off with the elbow to keep himself upright. There was no overlapping of wheels in front of Sagan forcing him to the fence.

    Long story short....Sagan is a goon, imho.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    If you watch the video from an earlier starting point, it's clear Sagan is taking Cav to the fence. Cav leans into him with his head because he can see the momentum of the situation is going to make him wreck. Sagan bulls on through and pushes off with the elbow to keep himself upright. There was nobody overlapping wheels in front of Sagan forcing him to the fence.

    imho
    The picture I posted clearly shows Sagan's elbow being hooked by Cav's shift/brake unit.

    How does one push off with an elbow that never makes contact with Cav's body? It got pulled outward by Cav's shifter. They are clearly in contact with each other in that picture.

    Relegation is one thing, and might have been appropriate for irregular sprinting. But DQ from the race as a whole is another thing entirely, particularly for the rule they cited. It simply doesn't meet that standard, PLUS he was not there to be allowed to speak in his own defense, which also violates the UCI's own rules.
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  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The picture I posted clearly shows Sagan's elbow being hooked by Cav's shift/brake unit.

    How does one push off with an elbow that never makes contact with Cav's body? It got pulled outward by Cav's shifter. They are clearly in contact with each other in that picture.

    Relegation is one thing, and might have been appropriate for irregular sprinting. But DQ from the race as a whole is another thing entirely, particularly for the rule they cited. It simply doesn't meet that standard, PLUS he was not there to be allowed to speak in his own defense, which also violates the UCI's own rules.
    That photo is from the land of conspiracy theory...

    Watch this video:


    It's clear Cav is moving in a straight line, Sagan comes down on him, Cav leans into him with his head to fend him off, Sagan pushes him off with his elbow. There's really nothing else to it.

    Also, look at where their front wheels are. Side by side. Didn't know he was there? BS. He could clearly see Cav was on his right.


    .

  141. #141
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    Le Duke is right

    the more I look at it, Sagan is reacting to
    his arm being hooked by Cav's hoods

    Sagan isn't throwing an elbow, he is unwrapping his arm from Cav's bars
    the very inital arm move is unnatural(cavs bars hook arm) then Sagan
    moves his arm intentionally outward to get clear, not an 'elbow to cav' as
    it seems.


    my summary: not an elbow at all....only looks like it.

    Sagan 100% correct, Cav 100% at fault.

    I've been in these kind of sprints ... I've rubbed with the competition when all of us are blasting out peak watts in the last few meters. it's friggin hairy business just keeping your feet in your shoes and clipped in, let alone staying up in traffic.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ...I've been a CAT 1 road racer for most of a decade now...
    I hope you do not mind me taking advantage of your experience to ask a question; How much are you allowed to move off line when sprinting? Is it 1ft, 2ft? Or is that something that is only looked at if there is a crash? Also is the expectation to be arrow straight to the line? and if so, from what distance? 50m? 100m?

    Reason I ask is that almost every sprint I see, riders are changing lines constantly until they are very close to the finish line.

    Thanks in advance.

  143. #143
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    ^^^ For non-UCI rules, not much written about road race finishing sprints

    it is based on ' incident ' and ' protest '

    under UCI rules, it is much clearer
    Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodino View Post
    I hope you do not mind me taking advantage of your experience to ask a question; How much are you allowed to move off line when sprinting? Is it 1ft, 2ft? Or is that something that is only looked at if there is a crash? Also is the expectation to be arrow straight to the line? and if so, from what distance? 50m? 100m?

    Reason I ask is that almost every sprint I see, riders are changing lines constantly until they are very close to the finish line.

    Thanks in advance.
    You're not supposed to deviate at all, really.

    That said, if they actually disqualified people based on that rule, the guys who lead out the sprint, sat up and then took 8th on the stage would be the eventual winner most days. Very rarely do you see any straight line sprints.

    I don't know if I could stay within 1' of a line painted on the road in a maximum effort sprint.
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  145. #145
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    Off topic but mods are making me think I'm crazy LOL - they merged my thread w/another, never seen that done.

    Carry on!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ...I don't know if I could stay within 1' of a line painted on the road in a maximum effort sprint.
    Thanks for your reply. That is exactly why I was asking because even though I do not have any power to speak of, I always find my bike drifting under maximum effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^^^ For non-UCI rules, not much written about road race finishing sprints

    it is based on ' incident ' and ' protest '

    under UCI rules, it is much clearer
    Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.
    Thanks for your reply.

  148. #148
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    On further review, it kind of looks like both Cav and Sagan are going for the same hole that was opened up by the Frenchman making that drastic move in front of them. Sagan is still in the wrong, as Cav clearly had the lane and had nowhere else to go, but I can see why he was making the move.

    Beyond the squabble for space....WTF was that Frenchman doing! He had no reason to suddenly cut across in front of everyone like that. It could probably be argued that HE was the cause of this whole mess.

    Another video:


    .

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Off topic but mods are making me think I'm crazy LOL - they merged my thread w/another, never seen that done.

    Carry on!
    I saw that. I don't think it was really necessary at all. Yeah, the crash and suspension happened as part of the TdF, but it really is a standalone topic, IMO.
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  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I saw that. I don't think it was really necessary at all. Yeah, the crash and suspension happened as part of the TdF, but it really is a standalone topic, IMO.
    I actually had seen that other thread, but it had a clear description "NORCAL ONLY OR DIE", so I didn't post there.
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    My theory (based on the videos and comments from people on threads at other websites) is that Demare made the abrupt line change to the left to avoid running over a drain cover. Cavendish hit the drain cover which caused his caused his wheel begin to slide, tilting his bike to the right and hooking Sagan's arm with his brake hood. Minus the hooked arm, Cavendish might have been able to recover.

  152. #152
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    It's a racing incident... Shit happens. Let them race.

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    I think today's Stage 6 sprint finish sheds more light on what did not happen during that crash. The crazy french man Demare did the same move Cav tried to do. But for it to work, two riders had to checkup to avoid crashing. Sagan did not yield nor should he have.

  154. #154
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    I ran across this guy's take on the crash. Looks like the drain cover explanation may be correct.

    https://m.imgur.com/iZIngF8

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    On further review, it kind of looks like both Cav and Sagan are going for the same hole that was opened up by the Frenchman making that drastic move in front of them. Sagan is still in the wrong, as Cav clearly had the lane and had nowhere else to go, but I can see why he was making the move.

    Beyond the squabble for space....WTF was that Frenchman doing! He had no reason to suddenly cut across in front of everyone like that. It could probably be argued that HE was the cause of this whole mess.

    Another video:


    .
    Frenchy dodges the drain (to our left), Cav absolutely nails it and begins to lose control, leaning on Sagan, the rest we can see for ourselves.

    Sagan unlucky.
    always mad and usually drunk......

  156. #156
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    This is gold




    F*ck Cancer

    Eat your veggies

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    This is gold




    Thanks Cyclelicious. That was hilarious!

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Le Duke is right

    the more I look at it, Sagan is reacting to
    his arm being hooked by Cav's hoods

    Sagan isn't throwing an elbow, he is unwrapping his arm from Cav's bars
    the very inital arm move is unnatural(cavs bars hook arm) then Sagan
    moves his arm intentionally outward to get clear, not an 'elbow to cav' as
    it seems.


    my summary: not an elbow at all....only looks like it.

    Sagan 100% correct, Cav 100% at fault.

    I've been in these kind of sprints ... I've rubbed with the competition when all of us are blasting out peak watts in the last few meters. it's friggin hairy business just keeping your feet in your shoes and clipped in, let alone staying up in traffic.
    I didn't watch this until now but Sagan didn't do crap wrong, he got hit from behind and now the "stinky driver" is blaming him.
    Just like driving in L.A....
    And I also agree the whole thing is started by the guy in front cutting everyone else behind him off.

    This is why I have no interest in the Tour anymore. Any of the tour races.
    It's the Tour De Cheat and the Cheating is frequently done by desperate French officials as much as the riders themselves.
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    LOL Maybe the UCI should enforce F1 passing rules-- you can only move your line once! This whole thing is a joke since the sprints are just crazy with guys leaning and blocking each other and changing lines constantly. From the video it just looks like Cav tried to push on Sagan and immediately bounced off due to physics. Racing incident, and the UCI screwed the pooch by DQ'ing the guy with the stripes, no less.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    This is gold




    My opinion of road riders hasn't ever been that high, but I do gotta give it to him - that's some good control how he can kick out the back wheel like that and jump that curb at that angle and speed.

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  161. #161
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    Maybe they forgot to look at their tattoos before the sprint.

    All I am saying is give pizza chants

  162. #162
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    What's up with Demare? Same attack as Cavandish in stage 6, only difference is Sagan isn't a b*tch.
    T275a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inter71 View Post
    What's up with Demare? Same attack as Cavandish in stage 6, only difference is Sagan isn't a b*tch.
    Demare has been reckless no two ways about it especially on Stage 6. On today's stage, I actually expected more of the same but he did not sprint for whatever reason. That finish though was close!

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodino View Post
    Demare has been reckless no two ways about it especially on Stage 6. On today's stage, I actually expected more of the same but he did not sprint for whatever reason. That finish though was close!
    No clue how they decided that finish.
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  165. #165
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    Richie Porte took a pretty serious header. It looked like he was carrying too much speed and missed the curve. OUCH!
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    Maybe they forgot to look at their tattoo.
    Could be confusing when reaching around.

  167. #167
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    The Sagan saga is a fading memory.

    Today's stage more than lived up to the hype. A brutal nail-biter.

    Props to everybody who survived to the finish line; especially Rigoberto Uran (Team Cannondale) who was a photo-finish 1st place on a single-speed!

    (Electronic shifting does have its faults)
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  168. #168
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    I agree, that was crazy!
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  169. #169
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    Do these racers take steroids?

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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    Do these racers take steroids?

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    Nope, never.

  171. #171
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    Tour de Pharmacy

    KultaBank

    video=youtube;][/video]...

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    Do these racers take steroids?

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  173. #173
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    Last edited by squashyo; 07-10-2017 at 08:57 AM.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    ... especially Rigoberto Uran (Team Cannondale) who was a photo-finish 1st place on a single-speed!

    (Electronic shifting does have its faults)
    That was a phenomenal ride. That should count like two stage wins. LoL

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Richie Porte took a pretty serious header. It looked like he was carrying too much speed and missed the curve. OUCH!
    He is pretty lucky momentum carried him across the road instead of down the ravine. For that accident, getting only a broken shoulder blade and pelvis is a lucky escape.

  176. #176
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    Caught maybe 10 minutes of coverage today. From the sound of things does this pretty much summarize?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv7ZBVoGSw4

  177. #177
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    Man, the Tour organizers really did their best to make this a boring race this year.

    How about some hilly stages peppered with CAT 3 and 4 climbs? Not everything has to be a pan flat sprint stage or a brutal, 200km death march over a couple of HC climbs.
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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Man, the Tour organizers really did their best to make this a boring race this year.

    How about some hilly stages peppered with CAT 3 and 4 climbs? Not everything has to be a pan flat sprint stage or a brutal, 200km death march over a couple of HC climbs.
    No kidding! Tomorrow 3 cat 1. I think.
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  179. #179
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    Who gets taken out by a grocery sack in the tour.....

    Does the USA even have a team in the tour?

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post

    Does the USA even have a team in the tour?
    Trek Segafredo, BMC, Cannondale Drapac
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  181. #181
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    I think there are only 3 Americans in this year.

    What happened to Tejay van Garderen? I know he had some issues the last 2 years.

  182. #182
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    I think he put his efforts toward the Giro this year
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  183. #183
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    How is Lance doing?

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    How is Lance doing?
    ^ He's got more hills to climb https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...uit/409645001/
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  185. #185
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    So, I had nothing to do tonight so I sat down and watched the last hour or so of stage 12. I realized it's not a race but a staged production. I've raced off road moto and trucks all my life and have never once over shot a corner and had the competitors wait for me to re gain my position... It's hours of bore dome waiting for a 2 minute sprint and the right sponsors had better be in place.

    Why the hell can froome over shoot a corner and then be back in the front of the pack? Fake sports.

    He should have been dropped.

  186. #186
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    Are you people really paying attention to the Tour De Cheat?

    People should be mass boycotting that disgusting event.
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  187. #187
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    Why's this thread in the "anything goes" forum?
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Why's this thread in the "anything goes" forum?
    My original thread was posted in OC, then a norcal thread was merged with mine. I posted in OC because I figured in other places, it might not be appreciated.
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  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    My original thread was posted in OC, then a norcal thread was merged with mine. I posted in OC because I figured in other places, it might not be appreciated.
    I was just messing with the Squashyo ... we ride in each others crews and they are making a movie about his challenge thread. I'm so jealous!
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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    I was just messing with the Squashyo ... we ride in each others crews and they are making a movie about his challenge thread.
    👍👍 oops.
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  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    The TDF just ain't the same without Zabriskie
    right.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    I think there are only 3 Americans in this year.

    What happened to Tejay van Garderen? I know he had some issues the last 2 years.
    Won a stage at the Giro two months ago. No mean feat.
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  193. #193
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    I've been listening to the podcast "Stages" (Lance Armstrong's podcast on the Tour) and he mentioned that Tejay has had real issues with how he handles rest days. He always seems to blow up after a rest day.

  194. #194
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    Very satisfying TDF for me. Last few days have been rather intriguing...just my OP.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    I've been listening to the podcast "Stages" (Lance Armstrong's podcast on the Tour) and he mentioned that Tejay has had real issues with how he handles rest days. He always seems to blow up after a rest day.
    Yep. I have watched Tejay's implosions, much better for him to regroup away from the spotlight and come back better.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    .... Last few days have been rather intriguing...
    To say the least. It is going to be a battle royale in the Alps.

  197. #197
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    All I am saying is give pizza chants

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    No body fat left on these guys. Think about how hard doing an incredibly difficult century(+) ride is and then consider doing it 21 out of 23 days. And some of these riders seem to get faster in the third week.

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    Tour De France 2017 thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    Poljanski looks to have very good blood flow in those big muscles!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    No body fat left on these guys. Think about how hard doing an incredibly difficult century(+) ride is and then consider doing it 21 out of 23 days. And some of these riders seem to get faster in the third week.
    Yeah and the climbers are at their best near the end, lean and mean with their best power to weight ratio. It's an amazing effort! So much that they can loose more than 10% of their overall bone density.


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  200. #200
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    Interesting little tidbit of background (albeit brief) on Didi Senft aka The TdF Devil:

    This is why Tour de France cyclists are high-fiving a man dressed as the devil
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

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