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  1. #1
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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    So I happen to live in one of the most liberal countries in europe, and here owning firearms is actually allowed, we have more per capita here than, well most other places, still low crime though, extremely low crime. I see cop cars here about once a month

    So a few guys at work shoot rifles and pistols in competitions, and they are very good, one guy is probably no 2 in the whole europe. He is fuking awesome doing this. These are ipsc type matches.

    So now I'm thinking about starting shooting guns too, I want to shoot too!

    I have to wait to start shooting semiauto rifles but guns I get too shoot right away. Wont get to actually own anything anytime soon though, but I get to shoot them. And of course If I ask my friends I can shoot their full autos (that they legally own and legally can do whatever the f they want with, pretty much) at ranges.

    So anyone else shoot guns for fun?

    What do you recommend?

    I'm just dying to kick "the good guy"s ass in pistol (and he is an instructor), because he's really cocky. But I'm dedicated and a lot more proficient in everything, I don't leave **** up for grabs.

    So the gun liberal mtbr, what do you think??

    should I join a club and kick these muddas asses?? I think so. But thats just me.
    Whats your say?
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  2. #2
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    Guns are fun.

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  3. #3
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    Oh, look, the European is trying to shoot guns. Now I know how they felt when the Americans took up soccer, er...um, football.

  4. #4
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    Why start this Mr Badass? Have you learned nothing here? Go to a gun forum for your answers, this will not go well!
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  5. #5
    Log off and go ride!
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    I do not shoot for fun or competition.

    I shoot to maintain proficiency.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  6. #6
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    Blast away! Ammo gets expensive though.

  7. #7
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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Blast away! Ammo gets expensive though.
    No kidding.
    Try shooting a niche round. My 6.5 Grendel ain't cheap. But it's fun to shoot a round with virtually no droop out past 600 yards.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    No kidding.
    Try shooting a niche round. My 6.5 Grendel ain't cheap. But it's fun to shoot a round with virtually no droop out past 600 yards.
    Yes, that would be fun. Although any decent shot at 500-600 meters is fun. Open sights, of course.

  9. #9
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    If you can't have one, you may as well have the other!

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  10. #10
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    Being born and raised in the grand state of Kalifornication, I still cannot get used to seeing people publicly carrying weapons like I do when I am in Arizona.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Open sights, of course.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Yes, that would be fun. Although any decent shot at 500-600 meters is fun. Open sights, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    I was being serious. Back in my USMC days, when I used to shoot a lot, I could easily hold 3-4" groups at 500 meters, iron sighted M-16 A1. My Sig M400 AR-15 that I have now is capable of more than that, but my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I can still though fairly easily and regularly pick off milk jugs and laundry detergent jugs with iron sights at 500ish meters. In fact, that's what my long range sight is dialed in at. Very little Kentucky windage required, just good shooting technique. I can also hit soup cans more often than not at about 200 ft with my Springfield XDm Compact 9mm.

    Shooting for fun is,,,,,fun.

    I also carry for self defense, especially when I'm out in the boonies, although I prefer concealed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    No kidding.
    Try shooting a niche round. My 6.5 Grendel ain't cheap. But it's fun to shoot a round with virtually no droop out past 600 yards.
    How many $ per bullet?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    If you can't have one, you may as well have the other!

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  15. #15
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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    How many $ per bullet?
    $33/box of 20. And that's for low cost Wolf. Hornady is even higher. I'm building up a reloading set up.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    $33/box of 20. And that's for low cost Wolf. Hornady is even higher. I'm building up a reloading set up.
    I used to reload my 6.5 NORMA rouds. Check out the price for a fully loaded NORMA6.5 with Sierra Match King boat-tails and Lapua brass.

    I regarded every single shot I made with that rifle, a Savage Model 12F-Open Class, with a Weaver custom 42X scope, as a mini orbital rocket launch.

    I grew to hate reloading. My shooting friends now have all my equipment.

    If I ever shoot again, it will b out-of-the-box ammo.
    I'll resume just as soon as I hit that lotto.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Can you roll coal outta that too?
    Only if its' black powder, Rocker. You 'prolly want a classic Colt revolver for that, though.

    The good news is, they have a much longer barrel (phallic significance there should be obvious,) and due to a quirk in the law, even convicted felons can own black powder guns.
    They are also quite accurate.

    It's an All-'Merican Win-Win-Win!

    You can also hang testicles from them too. Another Win!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Only if its' black powder, Rocker. You 'prolly want a classic Colt revolver for that, though.

    The good news is, they have a much longer barrel (phallic significance there should be obvious,) and due to a quirk in the law, even convicted felons can own black powder guns.
    They are also quite accurate.

    It's an All-'Merican Win-Win-Win!

    You can also hang testicles from them too. Another Win!
    I pertikkerly like the PINK testes!
    It's all Here. Now.

  19. #19
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    shooting is indeed fun! ammo has gotten a little out of hand, $ wise.

    to find what you like, go to the range and rent a bunch! i did that for my revolver and my 1911.

  20. #20
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    I don't shoot for fun...........I shoot to kill.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    I don't shoot for fun...........I shoot to kill.
    If you don't get adequate fun time, you'll be ill prepared at kill time.

  22. #22
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    Does pulling the trigger of my love gun count?

  23. #23
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    are you shooting wadcutters or spitzer ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Oh, look, the European is trying to shoot guns. Now I know how they felt when the Americans took up soccer, er...um, football.
    Truth is Euros and Latinos kick white American ass in just about all international shooting competitions. Mexicans tend to be WAY better shot, particularly in precision rifle matches.
    The old bit about the western cowboy crack-shot is basically just that....an act.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Whats your say?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Truth is Euros and Latinos kick white American ass in just about all international shooting competitions. Mexicans tend to be WAY better shot, particularly in precision rifle matches.
    The old bit about the western cowboy crack-shot is basically just that....an act.
    Well, hopefully they will be as gracious when we dominate soccer then.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Truth is Euros and Latinos kick white American ass in just about all international shooting competitions. Mexicans tend to be WAY better shot, particularly in precision rifle matches.
    The old bit about the western cowboy crack-shot is basically just that....an act.
    huh, the euro part is true, but latinos and mexicans?

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  28. #28
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    Another European shooting hobbyist here. o/

    I'm primarily interested in handguns and have been shooting them for 14 years. When I was a kid the recoil (from the piston) of an air rifle, together with a diopter sight sans eye cup, gave me a bloody corner of an eye and the scar is still visible. So I wasn't thrilled about anything you shoulder, but got good grades with an assault rifle during my armed service. After returning to reservist ranks I've gotten some rifles and shotguns, but handguns are still the #1 for me.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    huh, the euro part is true, but latinos and mexicans?

    ISSF - International Shooting Sport Federation - issf-sports.org
    I go back a ways for that one. You'll have research Mexican/American shootouts to see what I mean.

    Here in the Southwest, a number of matches I attended had Mexican shooters who didn't win, but really did a pretty good job, considering their equipment.
    And when I let a few of them shoot my rigs, they were shockingly good. So, I base the latino reference on my own personal experience.

    Some of them take precision rifle shooting very seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Another European shooting hobbyist here. o/

    I'm primarily interested in handguns and have been shooting them for 14 years. When I was a kid the recoil (from the piston) of an air rifle, together with a diopter sight sans eye cup, gave me a bloody corner of an eye and the scar is still visible. So I wasn't thrilled about anything you shoulder, but got good grades with an assault rifle during my armed service. After returning to reservist ranks I've gotten some rifles and shotguns, but handguns are still the #1 for me.

    I had a nasty spring piston air rifle that just about broke a friend''s nose. He had trouble with the 'eye relief' concept for the scope, plus, he had a pretty big nose.
    No stitches were required, and everybody had a good laugh., including him.

  31. #31
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    To the OP, or anyone else, my advice is to join a club that has a competition program. It's a really good way to learn a lot from better shooters. If you're on their team, they're going to want to help you get better.
    You'll find that frequent practice is going to be fun, rewarding, and expensive.
    Here's a link to the best guide ever written. Mostly pistol, but much carries over.

    http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

    Good luck.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    I used to reload my 6.5 NORMA rouds. Check out the price for a fully loaded NORMA6.5 with Sierra Match King boat-tails and Lapua brass.

    I regarded every single shot I made with that rifle, a Savage Model 12F-Open Class, with a Weaver custom 42X scope, as a mini orbital rocket launch.

    I grew to hate reloading. My shooting friends now have all my equipment.

    If I ever shoot again, it will b out-of-the-box ammo.
    I'll resume just as soon as I hit that lotto.
    'why even shoot other 6.5 than the 6.5swedish mauser'? 'Its been around for at least 100 years, was really thought trough when they designed it and you can get norma and lapua brass/bullets, why reinvent old stuff with shittier'??
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk Eddie View Post
    To the OP, or anyone else, my advice is to join a club that has a competition program. It's a really good way to learn a lot from better shooters. If you're on their team, they're going to want to help you get better.
    You'll find that frequent practice is going to be fun, rewarding, and expensive.
    Here's a link to the best guide ever written. Mostly pistol, but much carries over.

    http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

    Good luck.
    'Hello eddie. I have joined a shooting club, and got to try out shooting pistols for the first time in my life.

    'With a 22lr 'I managed to shoot about 3 inch groups '(5shot') at 25m. but the worst ones were 5 inch. 'It was really nice

    'Now 'I'm waiting for a safety class but I can still shoot at the noob days.

    'So 'I challenged my coworkers and at least one of them is really really good in his class, at least top 10 world wide no matter how you count it.
    *He immediately wanted to make a bet for around a grand '(') heheh ''I declined. 'But my goal is to kick his ass in the near-ish future. 'And be a dick about it. 'Good luck car bone..

    'As you can all see 'I have a problem with my keyboard and the'---> ''''''*** <---* so dont ask.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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  34. #34
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    Try an ipsc match. Lots of fun

  35. #35
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    time to get back into it. fun stuff.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    'why even shoot other 6.5 than the 6.5swedish mauser'? 'Its been around for at least 100 years, was really thought trough when they designed it and you can get norma and lapua brass/bullets, why reinvent old stuff with shittier'??
    NORMA was the top BC round for quite a while. When you load a Sierra Match King boat-tail into a good brass shell, it drops less at 1000 yards than just about anything.
    At least that was what all of the tests published showed. Maybe it was all bullsh*t , but back then, that's what I went with.

    It was just too damn expensive. I still have one, in-the-box, Savage Model F-Open class rifle in that caliber, with a 30" stainless bull barrel, if anybody's interested. It has the 2-stage "Acu-Trigger" that really is one of the best, if not the best, trigger I've ever pulled.

  37. #37
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    Re: Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    No kidding.
    Try shooting a niche round. My 6.5 Grendel ain't cheap. But it's fun to shoot a round with virtually no droop out past 600 yards.
    Take that thing out to 1200 yards! It's a kick from such a small round that out shines the .308.

    Great thread to change it up a bit

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    NORMA was the top BC round for quite a while. When you load a Sierra Match King boat-tail into a good brass shell, it drops less at 1000 yards than just about anything.
    At least that was what all of the tests published showed. Maybe it was all bullsh*t , but back then, that's what I went with.

    It was just too damn expensive. I still have one, in-the-box, Savage Model F-Open class rifle in that caliber, with a 30" stainless bull barrel, if anybody's interested. It has the 2-stage "Acu-Trigger" that really is one of the best, if not the best, trigger I've ever pulled.
    The test results were probably true. What I meant was that the 6.5x55 is just a tiny bit lower performance compared to all the newer bigger capacity 6.5 cartridges, has better performance than all the new smaller ones, and is cheap to shoot, and they make really good cheap competition ammo for it. Depending on where you live I suppose. And pretty much all euro rifle manufacturers makes non custom rifles in 6.5x55. Around here its used for pretty much everything; long range, short range high precision, hunting birds, hunting everything else.

    My buddy has a .338 lapua. I don't even know if I dare to shoot it. The recoil is supposed to be non pleasant. And the cost per round is very high.
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  39. #39
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    Re: Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    The .338 Lapua will have a brake on it, no stress it won't recoil too much. I shoot a .338 Norma Magnum AI all day long and it's not bad at all. Try it out! As for the cost...reload

    Great thread to change it up a bit
    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    The test results were probably true. What I meant was that the 6.5x55 is just a tiny bit lower performance compared to all the newer bigger capacity 6.5 cartridges, has better performance than all the new smaller ones, and is cheap to shoot, and they make really good cheap competition ammo for it. Depending on where you live I suppose. And pretty much all euro rifle manufacturers makes non custom rifles in 6.5x55. Around here its used for pretty much everything; long range, short range high precision, hunting birds, hunting everything else.

    My buddy has a .338 lapua. I don't even know if I dare to shoot it. The recoil is supposed to be non pleasant. And the cost per round is very high.

  40. #40
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    I shoot in 2 gun and 3 gun comps.
    2 gun uses Semi Auto Rifle and your side arm is secondary
    3 gun uses any combo of pistol/shot gun/rifle in various stages. The stage can use 1 or all of the combo. Its a ton of fun. I am not very good but it is a lot of fun. I have not done it since ammo went through the roof but its coming down again so maybe in 2015.
    The Nssf sanctions International 3 gun though I am not sure if they get near you.
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  41. #41
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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    'why even shoot other 6.5 than the 6.5swedish mauser'? 'Its been around for at least 100 years, was really thought trough when they designed it and you can get norma and lapua brass/bullets, why reinvent old stuff with shittier'??

    Because the Swedish Mauser round won't fit into an AR platform. It's 1" too long. It's fine for a high power long range round, but not suitable for intermediate and tactical use by infantry.
    Rounds like the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are ways to get more hitting power and range out of the AR platform. 6.5 Grendel has been under serious consideration for replacing 5.56 as the NATO standard round.

    Quote Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
    Take that thing out to 1200 yards! It's a kick from such a small round that out shines the .308.

    Great thread to change it up a bit
    I wish. In a carbine platform, I struggle to get on paper at 1000. 600 is plenty of fun shooting at steel silhouettes. I've considered getting a new upper with a 22" bull barrel just to play around with the long distance stuff.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  42. #42
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    Re: Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Because the Swedish Mauser round won't fit into an AR platform. It's 1" too long. It's fine for a high power long range round, but not suitable for intermediate and tactical use by infantry.
    Rounds like the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are ways to get more hitting power and range out of the AR platform. 6.5 Grendel has been under serious consideration for replacing 5.56 as the NATO standard round.



    I wish. In a carbine platform, I struggle to get on paper at 1000. 600 is plenty of fun shooting at steel silhouettes. I've considered getting a new upper with a 22" bull barrel just to play around with the long distance stuff.
    We were nailing targets with 16, 18 and 24" 6.5 Grendel uppers. I even took it out to a mile. Had to upgrade my mount to get enough MOA's.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    NORMA was the top BC round for quite a while. When you load a Sierra Match King boat-tail into a good brass shell, it drops less at 1000 yards than just about anything.
    At least that was what all of the tests published showed. Maybe it was all bullsh*t , but back then, that's what I went with.

    It was just too damn expensive. I still have one, in-the-box, Savage Model F-Open class rifle in that caliber, with a 30" stainless bull barrel, if anybody's interested. It has the 2-stage "Acu-Trigger" that really is one of the best, if not the best, trigger I've ever pulled.
    I agree Ray, $3.00 per trigger pull is a bit steep. But thanks a lot, you've gone and made me decide to buy a Model 12 F/TR in .308. For those days when 500 yards out of the AR isn't enough.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I agree Ray, $3.00 per trigger pull is a bit steep. But thanks a lot, you've gone and made me decide to buy a Model 12 F/TR in .308. For those days when 500 yards out of the AR isn't enough.
    I shoot a Remington 700 BDL 30-06. A pricey bullet for target practice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I agree Ray, $3.00 per trigger pull is a bit steep. But thanks a lot, you've gone and made me decide to buy a Model 12 F/TR in .308. For those days when 500 yards out of the AR isn't enough.
    You'll love the gun if you are into long range precision shooting.

    The trigger alone is a marvel.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    You'll love the gun if you are into long range precision shooting.

    The trigger alone is a marvel.
    Just received Thursday from Brown Santa a nice bunch of 5.56 for a little holiday plinking fun. Between handgun and rifle ammo I mail ordered several thousand rounds, surprised the Feds haven't stopped by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    ...surprised the Feds haven't stopped by.
    They're afraid to, without S.W.A.T. backup.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Just received Thursday from Brown Santa a nice bunch of 5.56 for a little holiday plinking fun. Between handgun and rifle ammo I mail ordered several thousand rounds, surprised the Feds haven't stopped by.
    Another reason I like bolt-action rifles, even single shot bolt-action. You burn through fewer rounds. You don't heat up the barrel either.

    Of course, the main reason I like bolt actions is the accuracy. That Savage bolt action you are gonna get will be way more accurate than even the very best semi-auto out there.
    It will deserve a very expensive scope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Well, hopefully they will be as gracious when we dominate soccer then.
    Im sure they will.
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  50. #50
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    Re: Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Another reason I like bolt-action rifles, even single shot bolt-action. You burn through fewer rounds. You don't heat up the barrel either.

    Of course, the main reason I like bolt actions is the accuracy. That Savage bolt action you are gonna get will be way more accurate than even the very best semi-auto out there.
    It will deserve a very expensive scope.
    I have a good challenge... I will take several of my Semi Autos and prove that they are as accurate as any bolt action, that is old thinking. Today's Semi's are extremely accurate. As for fewer rounds down a bolt action and heat, not true as well. Run the bolt fast to get back on target and you can send as many rounds down range as a semi... it's all in the hands of the shooter.

    Here's just one of my semi autos at 300 yards, 1/2 " group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Another reason I like bolt-action rifles, even single shot bolt-action. You burn through fewer rounds. You don't heat up the barrel either.

    Of course, the main reason I like bolt actions is the accuracy. That Savage bolt action you are gonna get will be way more accurate than even the very best semi-auto out there.
    It will deserve a very expensive scope.
    My buddy was at the range shooting in his new sight on one of his competition semis. And there were pretty much only hunters there. As soon as they saw his gun they started talking smack about how inaccurate those things were and all that jazz. He had his hearing protection on and the people didn't think he could hear them. He laid down and fired off a 5 round group, rapid fire one. at 100m. Then when the target came back or he went and got ity, it was 1 hole. After that all the neggers at the range just stfu.

    But this was an expensive rifle, with the scope I'm guessing 6-7k or so ().

    They can be accurate if built right. Its usually the shooter and not the gear that matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    My buddy was at the range shooting in his new sight on one of his competition semis. And there were pretty much only hunters there. As soon as they saw his gun they started talking smack about how inaccurate those things were and all that jazz. He had his hearing protection on and the people didn't think he could hear them. He laid down and fired off a 5 round group, rapid fire one. at 100m. Then when the target came back or he went and got ity, it was 1 hole. After that all the neggers at the range just stfu.

    But this was an expensive rifle, with the scope I'm guessing 6-7k or so ().




    They can be accurate if built right. Its usually the shooter and not the gear that matters.
    That's nice, but for rifles that is close-range.
    I have an air rifle that turns in one-hole 5 shot groups at 100 meters.

    My Savage gives me one hole groups at 1000 yards, on a good day. But you are right....it's more about the shooter. A semiauto can certainly be very accurate, but it will need a lot of maintenance to retain that accuracy....it's just the nature of the beast.

    As the shooter, if you can handle a 2 .oz trigger, and get your heart rate down around 30-32 bpm, then you'll be able to take advantage of the superior optics and accuracy of a good rifle at long range. Otherwise, it ain't gonna happen.

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    I shot at a target 500 yards away 20 times with my 10 5/8" barreled S&W
    Revolver 44 mag. with open sights.
    It only had one hole in it... What's your point?
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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    I shot at a target 500 yards away 20 times with my 10 5/8" barreled S&W
    Revolver 44 mag. with open sights.
    It only had one hole in it... What's your point?
    Now that is awesome. My .22 TCM does well out to 300 yards but with the 34 grain bullet the wind kills it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    That's nice, but for rifles that is close-range.
    I have an air rifle that turns in one-hole 5 shot groups at 100 meters.

    My Savage gives me one hole groups at 1000 yards, on a good day. But you are right....it's more about the shooter. A semiauto can certainly be very accurate, but it will need a lot of maintenance to retain that accuracy....it's just the nature of the beast.

    As the shooter, if you can handle a 2 .oz trigger, and get your heart rate down around 30-32 bpm, then you'll be able to take advantage of the superior optics and accuracy of a good rifle at long range. Otherwise, it ain't gonna happen.
    Yeah you're right it is close range but remember this is a "practical" competition rifle made for shooting 5 shots a second or so.

    What have you done to your savage?? Do you have any pics? I'm thinking about getting a stock mannlicher classic with the fullstock/mannlicher stock. in 8x57 or 6.5x55 but since they will probably outlaw lead bullets here some time I think the 8x57 will be more versatile as it will be still be lots of joules downrange even if the bullets are made out of 100% copper. these have hammer forged barrels and are fully carbonitrided.

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    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Yeah you're right it is close range but remember this is a "practical" competition rifle made for shooting 5 shots a second or so.

    What have you done to your savage?? Do you have any pics? I'm thinking about getting a stock mannlicher classic with the fullstock/mannlicher stock. in 8x57 or 6.5x55 but since they will probably outlaw lead bullets here some time I think the 8x57 will be more versatile as it will be still be lots of joules downrange even if the bullets are made out of 100% copper. these have hammer forged barrels and are fully carbonitrided.

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    I no longer have the original Savage, somebody just had to have it after seeing me shoot it. I was able to name my price for that rifle, and for a few others as well, all for the same reason.

    I do have a brand new, in-the-box, Savage Model 12F, "Open 'F' Class", with a laminate stock, and their excellent 30" stainless bull barrel. And the Acu-Trigger, of course.

    I haven't even cleaned the barrel on it yet, and I don't know when I will. It's also a NORMA 6.5. Pricey to shoot.

    If they outlaw lead, for precision shooting it will have to be tungsten. That's gonna make things REAL pricey.

    I'll worry about the lead issue if/when it happens. That German gun looks pretty nice.....what about the trigger? I'm gonna guess that there are some pretty decent replacement triggers for that rifle, since it has a reputation for accuracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    I shot at a target 500 yards away 20 times with my 10 5/8" barreled S&W
    Revolver 44 mag. with open sights.
    It only had one hole in it... What's your point?

    you cant see a bullet sized hole at 500yds and you are saying you put 20 bullets through one? with a revolver? i rarely call BS but i have to on this one, amigo.

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    (He's saying he only hit it one time, by pure luck.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfruits View Post
    you cant see a bullet sized hole at 500yds and you are saying you put 20 bullets through one? with a revolver? i rarely call BS but i have to on this one, amigo.
    Hold my beer and watch this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfruits View Post
    i rarely call BS but i have to on this one, amigo.
    You should do this more often around here in the OC.
    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
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    i, being a sarcastic bastard, should have caught that. sorry!

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    anybody like watermelons??

    this is cool. you can make mashed watermelons in under a second. anyone have a 500 i can borrow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    anybody like watermelons??

    this is cool. you can make mashed watermelons in under a second. anyone have a 500 i can borrow?
    Nice! That's a whole lot of umph in a small package. I have only shot a 500 one time and it was enough for me.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

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    My buddy has a .500.... bought it 3 years ago... it went into the safe after 1/2 a box. has'nt been out since.
    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
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    Years back I put a few 12 ga 3" Magnum slugs through my 835 Ultimag, similar result, never shot those again.

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    I will probably touch off a couple hundred rounds today. .22lr, .223, .40 and maybe the .270wsm. I got a range in my yard. pretty handy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim208 View Post
    I will probably touch off a couple hundred rounds today. .22lr, .223, .40 and maybe the .270wsm. I got a range in my yard. pretty handy.
    If you got a range in your yard, then you can afford that ammo!

  67. #67
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    Last year I went out with my son and we shot the AR and 4 hand guns, I spent 2+ hours 2 nights in a row cleaning guns. I now have a 2 gun limit.

    Just finished full floating the barrel on my AR, got a stupid big 6-24x50 Vortex scope that'll be here Tuesday. There's an 800yd range just a 20 minute drive from me.

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    Still leaning real heavy toward the .308 Savage 12 F/TR too.

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    no denying ammo is expensive. I got a bunch of ammo for Christmas. And since it is snowing the sound will be muffled.

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    Common rounds are starting to become reasonable again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Last year I went out with my son and we shot the AR and 4 hand guns, I spent 2+ hours 2 nights in a row cleaning guns. I now have a 2 gun limit.

    Just finished full floating the barrel on my AR, got a stupid big 6-24x50 Vortex scope that'll be here Tuesday. There's an 800yd range just a 20 minute drive from me.
    Ben Avery?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Ben Avery?
    Phoenix Rod and Gun, north side of South Mountain. Ben Avery is an hour away. Usually I just go out into the desert, but that's with 1-200 yards. I'm thinking that it's a little more dangerous to be reaching out 5-800 yards on public use land. A lot can happen in 800 yards of space when you are fixated on the target, and not the in between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Phoenix Rod and Gun, north side of South Mountain. Ben Avery is an hour away. Usually I just go out into the desert, but that's with 1-200 yards. I'm thinking that it's a little more dangerous to be reaching out 5-800 yards on public use land. A lot can happen in 800 yards of space when you are fixated on the target, and not the in between.
    Yeah, there's a place in E. County on public land where you used to be able to find that much range, but you really had to be watchful as somebody could cross in front at any time.
    I saw some idiots with a Barrett out there once shooting over people's heads. That got put to a stop in a hurry.
    They couldn't hit anything with it, anyways.

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    Don't ever see myself competing, but it sure is fun being able to hold a tight group at distance. I've done tons of 500 meter open sights over the years with 5.56 M16/AR-15, going to start taking my AR out to 800ish, see what it will do. Just can see well enough anymore so had to drop for a scope. But scope or not, you still need good technique and discipline.

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    Many, many years ago my brother and I were out in a farmers field throwing bottles in the air and shooting at them with a .22 rifle. After about 100 rounds we realized that we were pointed right toward a neighborhood about 3/4 mile away. Yikes!!! I never did any ballistics computations, I was just relieved that the law never showed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Don't ever see myself competing, but it sure is fun being able to hold a tight group at distance. I've done tons of 500 meter open sights over the years with 5.56 M16/AR-15, going to start taking my AR out to 800ish, see what it will do. Just can see well enough anymore so had to drop for a scope. But scope or not, you still need good technique and discipline.
    Shooting with more than 24X is another entire discipline in itself. Getting the eye relief alone is enough to turn some shooters off to the entire deal.
    I tried to tech one guy to shoot with a 32X scope.....I figured I would use a spring piston air rifle I had that was decently accurate for our purposes......out to about 35 yards.
    What I forgot about was that spring-piston air guns have their own recoil....and it's kind of nasty. Instead of one direction, it's 2-directional. The guy, trying to find the right eye-relief distance, just about broke his nose on the scope. As it was, it did bleed a bit.

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    Ouch.

    Witnessed a fellow Marine fire a round from his M16 without locking the charging handle forward, sliced his cheek to the bone right the lower part of his eye socket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Don't ever see myself competing, but it sure is fun being able to hold a tight group at distance. I've done tons of 500 meter open sights over the years with 5.56 M16/AR-15, going to start taking my AR out to 800ish, see what it will do. Just can see well enough anymore so had to drop for a scope. But scope or not, you still need good technique and discipline.
    Wait'll you get that Savage....you might change your mind on that.

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    If your pushing your 5.56 to 800 you might want to try some heavier bullets, like the 75gr to 90. Should get you there, just the stability might not be there if you have a too slow of a twist and depending on your velocity. Get a scope it will change your world on your AR. SWFA sells some fixed power scopes for under 400 and they work fine if you don't want to drop some major coin. .. I know some guys that used those scopes on a precision rifle course with no issues going out to 1500 yards.

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    I have now had a sig 210 and an x6 in my hand (never shot though) and these seems to be really kick ass guns. I feared the x-series would be too thick and large for my hands but it fits just fine, and there seems to be many millimeters on that wooden grip for me to sand down. Maybe I'll get to try on out soon.

    Btw for 1500+ work or even 1000+ I heard the magic words are scenar and berger. and below that diamond line (norma)
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I have now had a sig 210 and an x6 in my hand (never shot though) and these seems to be really kick ass guns. I feared the x-series would be too thick and large for my hands but it fits just fine, and there seems to be many millimeters on that wooden grip for me to sand down. Maybe I'll get to try on out soon.

    Btw for 1500+ work or even 1000+ I heard the magic words are scenar and berger. and below that diamond line (norma)
    I'm totally confused...

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    The Sierra MatchKing and Hornady A-Max are also great.

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    I have shot a lot of USPSA competitions, almost every weekend for 6 years. Last year I put a lot of effort into moving up to grand master, really burnt me out on the sport and I got tried of standing around for 8 hrs to shoot for 1 min. Got back into mtn biking and sporting clay shooting. Still practice with the pistol some so that I don't lose the skill

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    Got some 5.56 Outback coming with 69gr Sierra Matchking, still at 3000 fps, should stay stable and supersonic well past 800 with a 16" 1 in 7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Got some 5.56 Outback coming with 69gr Sierra Matchking, still at 3000 fps, should stay stable and supersonic well past 800 with a 16" 1 in 7.
    Those should be hot. They should also be barrel-burners, or close to it.

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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Those should be hot. They should also be barrel-burners, or close to it.
    +1. I heard good things about how temp stable those are, well that manufacturer is. Let us known how accurate they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
    +1. I heard good things about how temp stable those are, well that manufacturer is. Let us known how accurate they are
    They have good reviews, found some online for $9.50 for 20, anything comparable is $20ish.

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    Shooting pistols (for fun, comp)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    They have good reviews, found some online for $9.50 for 20, anything comparable is $20ish.
    That's a good deal. Ammunition to go had an awesome sale this weekend on some ammo. I would rather reload though, takes time but the results are great for my rifles

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
    That's a good deal. Ammunition to go had an awesome sale this weekend on some ammo. I would rather reload though, takes time but the results are great for my rifles
    I'm not that into it to tool up for reloading, but who knows what tomorrow brings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I'm not that into it to tool up for reloading, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
    If you are, let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I was being serious. Back in my USMC days, when I used to shoot a lot, I could easily hold 3-4" groups at 500 meters, iron sighted M-16 A1. My Sig M400 AR-15 that I have now is capable of more than that, but my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I can still though fairly easily and regularly pick off milk jugs and laundry detergent jugs with iron sights at 500ish meters. In fact, that's what my long range sight is dialed in at. Very little Kentucky windage required, just good shooting technique. I can also hit soup cans more often than not at about 200 ft with my Springfield XDm Compact 9mm.

    Shooting for fun is,,,,,fun.

    I also carry for self defense, especially when I'm out in the boonies, although I prefer concealed.
    One Thousand, Seven hundred feet, with an AR, and Iron Sights... I'd be lucky if I found a hole in one of my targets with my AR at that range.
    I did however shoot 3" groups at 100 yards/iron sights, with an out of the box/mail order/ M1 Garand while standing. Must'a had one of those 'match barrels' on it. It was military surplus from the Greek Army. It wasn't my rifle...we went to the range and I just happened to get to shoot it first.

    I had a big grin on my face and announced that I was so done for the day. Pure luck I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrpiffle View Post
    One Thousand, Seven hundred feet, with an AR, and Iron Sights... I'd be lucky if I found a hole in one of my targets with my AR at that range.
    I did however shoot 3" groups at 100 yards/iron sights, with an out of the box/mail order/ M1 Garand while standing. Must'a had one of those 'match barrels' on it. It was military surplus from the Greek Army. It wasn't my rifle...we went to the range and I just happened to get to shoot it first.

    I had a big grin on my face and announced that I was so done for the day. Pure luck I guess.
    I've shot thousands of rounds at 3-500 meters, after enough practice you get good at it, providing you exercise good technique. If you can hold the same point and have good technique, there's no reason that you can't hold a tight group, within the capabilities of you ammo anyway.

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    Guns are good. And a great stress reliever. Love going out and target shooting. And carry A Glock 17 every time I ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrpiffle View Post
    One Thousand, Seven hundred feet, with an AR, and Iron Sights... I'd be lucky if I found a hole in one of my targets with my AR at that range.
    I did however shoot 3" groups at 100 yards/iron sights, with an out of the box/mail order/ M1 Garand while standing. Must'a had one of those 'match barrels' on it. It was military surplus from the Greek Army. It wasn't my rifle...we went to the range and I just happened to get to shoot it first.

    I had a big grin on my face and announced that I was so done for the day. Pure luck I guess.
    Some of those old M1 Garands, not the carbines, though, are very accurate rifles.
    Free floating the barrel makes them even better. The trigger, that can always use some help, IMO.

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    This could be your next 'urban coyote-killer. Check out the muzzle report and the recoil.

    Hatsan BT Big Bore Carnivore QE Air Rifle. Air rifles - PyramydAir.com

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    All right I just thought I should give you guys an update.

    I attended one of the mandatory safety classes for gun handling at the range. It was really fun and I got to shoot a few different guns.
    Non 22lr guns that is

    The first one was a 9mm 1911, and it was sweeet, I fell in love immediately, it felt so natural in my hand, the trigger was so good, and I hit the target so well... sure this wasn't a cheap gun at 1500 bux, but yeah it was no joke. I was really anti 1911 before I actually tried one since these guns are very unrealiable (compared to like a glock or sig) all over according to youtube experts and pretty much all online gun forums. But now I really want one, and now when I have plowed through a few weeks of gunsmithing threads and vids I believe this system is superior to most if not all others.

    The second gun I got to try was a similar one (also s&w) but now in 45acp, it was just as good, but now I had to hold the gun a bit harder or it would tear itself loos from my grip and I would have to take a new grip on it. With the 9mm I took one good grip and it was good for 5 rounds, no need to readjust it, but the 45 seemed to break loose from my grip every round or at least overy other round. But I shot just a good with it, I just needed to regrip it every round pretty much.

    The day before that we had a theory day, and the instructors brought all their own guns so we could hold them and rack them and such, and I got to try out (fiddling around with, not shooting) a sig sauer 226 x6 match or similar. Initially I really wanted an x5 since they are made in europe so its easy to get hold of these, and this one is exactly the same but 1 inch longer. But now when I tried it I noticed it had a really beefy grip and I have small slender hands, sure I could hold it very well and manipulate all there was to manipulate but it still felt suboptimal. I would need to put on some really thing grip scales on that one for it to work with my hands.

    And when it was my time to shoot it I simply passed on it and kept shooting the 1911s, they felt that good.

    I also got to shoot a small plastic striker fired 9mm ruger. Really blocky unergo grip on that one, and I even though I really tried shooting well with it I only hit the target with 3 out of 5 shots with that one and its a 50cm target at 25m hehehe. Really shitty gun imo.

    there was also several glocks to shoot but I didn't really wanted to waste time with them, and now in retrospect it was a good choice (one of my friends has one).

    And at the end of the session I noticed there was 44mag performance center revolver to shoot, laying there all alone, getting no attention. I had like 0 interest in the revolvers but hey, its a 44mag right! Need to try that one. And having absolutely no practical experience with revolvers or 44mag for that matter I had imagined it would simply tear my arms off, or at the very least send the revolver into my face or fracture my thumb or something.

    But having spent pretty much all my spare time for months either reading about guns or watching vids about them I tried to take a "miculek grip" on that sucker and just bang away. I knew I could possibly develop a flinch with that gun so before I fired it I decieded I would simply fire all the rounds as fast as I could hit the target. And I did.

    Sure it sounded much louder and I felt it was more powerful but lets just say the 44mag is a lot less agressive than you are lead to belive by reading on the internet. I was pretty disappointed actually, I was expecting it to hurt at the very least, but no, no such thing.

    Then we had a a field target competition, all the noobs. I got to shoot the 45 and if I had been able to actually count to 6 rounds instead of 5 (and load my mag in such a way) I would have won, competing against 22lr target guns and that sig x6 among other semi custom stuff.

    All in all I had a great time and I have not had that much fun in several years so now I'm hooked.

    Now in a few months I will be able/allowed to own my own gun, and I intend to shoot ipsc with it, so now I have a dilemma.
    Either go with a 9mm 1911 and shoot single stack/classic, or get a high cap gun (limited/standard) that wont fit my hands nearly as well, still doable though. My friends shoot sti edge's and para ordnance high cap guns in the 1911 format but to me these don't feel really good in the hand, and the sig x5/x6/226 is similar, they are just too beefy and blocky to feel really good.

    The only division that a 1911 single stack can compete in is a division that has about 3-4 shooters at a given event here. and production and limited/standard has about 100 shooters... And I want to compete. and when i compete I want serious competition.

    So what would you do?? I also have the option of getting a 9mm 1911 and just shooting it in standard/limited. Buuut having to fit inside the ipsc box leaves me with a 10 round mag compared to the others that have at least 18-20 round capacity of .40 cal (and therefore score major) or like 23-24 in 9mm (minor).

    I'm very determined and competitive but I have a feeling running a single stack gun is a serious disadvantage for me in the standard/limited division. Probably a more severe handicap than running a double stack gun and having "suboptimal" grip size no matter what.

    What would you do?

    I mean yeah I can still go with single stack 9mm, but then I'd have to be really hard core to win. Really really hard core. I would probably have to perform twice as good as the rest of the guys. And I don't know if thats even possible.

    Any way I love this!!
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ducman's Avatar
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    I would get the 9mm 1911 and shoot in classic division if that was the gun that shot the best for you. A 40 (major) 1911 will be better. Rarely does the extra 2 rounds of 9mm help, but major scoring always does.

    I would not shoot a 9mm 1911 in Standard/Limited. Round capacity will kill you. You will probably have to be a 2 classes above a limited shooter to keep up. I have won HOA with a 9mm 1911 shooting singlestack div.(your Classic) against Open shooters but they were A class shooters and master level Limited shooters and it was pretty close

    I would look at CZ shadow SP01 for production, grip is fairly small, the shoot soft and have a fantastic single action trigger, with a smooth double action trigger.

    Or you can thin down a 2011 grip. They aren't wider then a 1911 with wide grips and you can under cut them to get a higher grip. Some of the 2011 metal grips are pretty thin also

    Good luck, it is a great sport

  98. #98
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    Yeah I figured i was screwed with a single stack 1911. I have also read that the 2 rounds extra of 9mm is never worth it, many times.

    The thing with 9mm is that I can buy it for about 0,15 factory loaded and .40 is about 0,28 and 45 is even worse. actually its cheaper for me to buy factory 9mm ammo than to buy only bullets for a 45. A 45 bullet cost about the same as a 9mm good enough quality factory 9mm round. And I heard from my friends that if I want to shoot 40 I have to reload, doe to OAL and such. And I just want to keep it simple. and cheap.

    My friends has both the sp01 shadow and an edge in .40, I'll see If I can try those out soon.

    I would like either a 2011 or some sig x5/x-short/226sao/regular 226 and go to work on it. I'm a machinist by trade so I don't mind cutting things up, nor welding them, but yeah, I'm out of production div then.

    But I always figured I would land in standard/limited and not production since then I can modify/file/machine/make whatever I like that suits me.

    My friend told me he bought thin alu grips for his shadow (so his son could compete with it) and it worked out well supposedly, I need to try that one.
    He also has a pretty much stock edge in .40 so I need to try that one too.

    Too bad single stack/classic has such low number of shooters here, because thats where I think I could have become really good.

    I love it already
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  99. #99
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    Try as many guns as you can. You might want to look into reloading your own ammo even if you don't shoot 40. If you want to be competitive, you will have to shoot a lot

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