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  1. #1
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    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread

    Anyone else as excited about the new BRONCO as me?

    I was raised a GM guy and have owned multiple GM products over the years, but I have never wanted a FORD so bad.

    With the Sasquatch (yes that is the name) Package you can get a base model with 35" tires, front and rear lockers and a low crawling gear.

    Looks awesome.



    NOTE: I changed the Thread name to better reflect where this discussion has gone.
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    This looks a strong Jeep competitor. I love the granny gear.

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    Yeah this is obviously aimed directly at jeep which has had zero competition in that segment for a long time. I like jeeps and know a bunch of guys who have them, but when you go wheeling they are everywhere. I am ready to see more variety on the 4x4 trails.

    I have been taking my truck out a bit more to go wheeling with buddies, some of whom have jeeps, but my truck is a pretty basic Silverado 4x4, no lockers, 30inch tires, 2 inch leveling kit up front. and while it is super fun to off road in, it will take some expensive parts to make it better. I found the limitations last time I went out, mostly around no lockers and tires.
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    My wife just texted me that "she found her next vehicle."
    Uhmmmm... let someone else be the guinea pig and work out the inevitable first model year issues.

    Very nice look. Though 'that look' without the 35s would be a deal-breaker.
    A shame they didn't go with a solid front axle to keep up with the crawling Jeeps.

    Hopefully now that Jeep has some competition for their market, Jeep will rein in their pricing. I priced a JL Rubicon the other year and it came in at over $52,000!

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    Jeep is pondering dropping a HEMI in a Rubicon as a production vehicle. There’s been companies that have been making a HEMI swap kit for years. But now [hopefully] a simple walk into the dealer and you can buy one like that.

    Wondering the price range of the new Bronco?

    Here’s a breakdown of the models with pricing.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...ronco-cost.amp

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-161c1f5c-a9c9-4b5c-b078-470c874477ba.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    But even with a Hemi, Jeep is still a Chrysler/sibushi/mercedes/fiat/thrown together crap product.

    Its been hard to find a decent vehicle for years, in 2004 when I was looking the 4x4 Silverado was rated 20mpg highway and the Colorado was rated 21. No real reason to buy the smaller truck. Seems all the other brands are similar, v6 gets the same economy of a v8 with less capability.

    We made the minivan mistake and I'll never have a front wheel drive sideways engine vehicle again.

    I'd really want the 2 door manual but even if I had $ for a new vehicle, wife might not approve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    My wife just texted me that "she found her next vehicle."
    Uhmmmm... let someone else be the guinea pig and work out the inevitable first model year issues.
    This is where a lease if useful, lease it for 2-3 years, if there are issues, turn it back in and try something else, if not buy it out.

  8. #8
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    They look cool. I'll give them that, at least.

    Like all modern cars, I'm suspect of all the electronic gizmos, but I guess time will tell if they hold up or if they'll be in the shop every two weeks needing the cameras that tell you if you touch the center line recalibrated and whatnot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    But even with a Hemi, Jeep is still a Chrysler/sibushi/mercedes/fiat/thrown together crap product.

    Its been hard to find a decent vehicle for years, in 2004 when I was looking the 4x4 Silverado was rated 20mpg highway and the Colorado was rated 21. No real reason to buy the smaller truck. Seems all the other brands are similar, v6 gets the same economy of a v8 with less capability.

    We made the minivan mistake and I'll never have a front wheel drive sideways engine vehicle again.

    I'd really want the 2 door manual but even if I had $ for a new vehicle, wife might not approve.
    Agreed. Jeep was left alone by Chrysler until the larger wrangler models were made. They lack the robust and simple reliability now the name used to carry.

  10. #10
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    Anything you don't build is a mall crawler. Long travel, locked diffs and 5.13s
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-20170423_143101.jpg  

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    It's good to see a viable off-road competitor to Jeep. Jeeps have become too damn big and ungainly, and aren't that well built, as it is.

    Wife insisted on getting a Liberty years ago, and while I think the idea was sound enough for what it was, I think Jeep executed poorly. Rented a 4dr Wranger on vacation 10yrs ago (only wanted a 2dr) and it was just stupid big.

    I recently got a Ranger and the 2.3L turbo 4cyl with that 10spd transmission is a really nice powertrain. I can milk 28mpg out of it on the highway. And it's pretty fast when I want to step on it. I've been hearing rumblings that the 2.7L ecoboost is supposed to show up, at least as an option, on the next revision of the Ranger, too.

    I'd get something like this, except a bed is just useful enough for me that I lean more towards a pickup truck.

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    Like others said, I'm glad to see something on the trail besides brand new jeeps and FJcruisers. I just couldn't go out and buy a new 4x4 knowing what's going to happen to it.

    I like my 94 full size Bronco and still slowly building my big truck. Sourcing the parts I need is time consuming, since nothing I am doing is available in a kit. Have spent enough time at the junkyards they know me.

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-img_20200525_135948457.jpg

    Then you have this thing.... It was a jeep and mostly still is.

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-img_20200615_071703638_hdr.jpg
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Anyone else as excited about this as me?

    I was raised a GM guy and have owned multiple GM products over the years, but I have never wanted a FORD so bad.

    With the Sasquatch (yes that is the name) Package you can get a base model with 35" tires, front and rear lockers and a low crawling gear.

    Looks awesome.
    Real nice, and priced well. Thanx for sharing
    Round and round we go

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    My wife just texted me that "she found her next vehicle."
    Uhmmmm... let someone else be the guinea pig and work out the inevitable first model year issues.

    Very nice look. Though 'that look' without the 35s would be a deal-breaker.
    A shame they didn't go with a solid front axle to keep up with the crawling Jeeps.

    Hopefully now that Jeep has some competition for their market, Jeep will rein in their pricing. I priced a JL Rubicon the other year and it came in at over $52,000!
    Yeah my wife likes the look of them too. My problem is figuring out which vehicle to replace as we have valid uses for both our truck and our suburban.

    At first I thought the IFS would be a hinderance, but I think it will be plenty capable to keep up with the jeeps when you match them stock form to stock form. When it comes to extreme crawling things may change, but those guys are never "stock"

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Jeep is pondering dropping a HEMI in a Rubicon as a production vehicle. There’s been companies that have been making a HEMI swap kit for years. But now [hopefully] a simple walk into the dealer and you can buy one like that.
    All the hype about a v8 Wrangler is probably just jeep trying to take some wind out of Ford's Sails. I have my doubts if they will seriously offer it. But it would be cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    But even with a Hemi, Jeep is still a Chrysler/sibushi/mercedes/fiat/thrown together crap product.
    The first gen v6 of the JK Wranglers was not the best, but I have heard nothing but good things about the Pentastar V6 from the later JK's and now the JLs. Is there something specific about Wranglers you are referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    Like others said, I'm glad to see something on the trail besides brand new jeeps and FJcruisers. I just couldn't go out and buy a new 4x4 knowing what's going to happen to it.

    I like my 94 full size Bronco and still slowly building my big truck. Sourcing the parts I need is time consuming, since nothing I am doing is available in a kit. Have spent enough time at the junkyards they know me.



    Then you have this thing.... It was a jeep and mostly still is.

    Nice Bronco!

    That second pic... uhhhhhhhhh
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    Let me reiterate with a small breakdown of models & pricing. If more interested than these screenshots go to the link.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...ronco-cost.amp

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-b49e5206-523b-453e-8091-eb1dfda746ee.jpg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-e148992e-6ff9-41c6-a131-1be69148a43a.jpeg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-f0ac33af-7180-4de2-874b-6e73425459c7.jpeg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-51473345-61bf-441a-bc55-5a17a4df332c.jpeg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-a84d3cc0-7688-4423-b47c-9af7b720c85b.jpeg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-bfcaf625-fe3e-4885-8511-b52bd6f4816f.jpeg
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-921501b0-3f98-45a0-b2b5-14efa7a67fb5.jpeg

    Alex, I’d like to solve the puzzle....wait..

    I’ll take some “First Edition” for 60K. [65K out the door] please for the win.

    And let me predict that some of these 60K top of the line “First Edition” model versions that are already snatched up by the wealthy [waiting list] will be sold at Barrett Jackson style auctions for 10% markup or more of the sticker price. Mark my words.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  16. #16
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    As I said, the Base Model with the Sasquatch is my jam.
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    Not in the market at all, but this looks pretty good. When my wife needed a new car, she wanted a Jeep bad but couldn't stomach the sticker price plus the poor gas mileage and not so good crash test ratings put us off even a used one. It will be interesting to see how the Bronco does in reviews and crash tests.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    As I said, the Base Model with the Sasquatch is my jam.
    Yep 100000%! That's going to be a very popular one. I'll probably look into one in a couple years when the bugs get worked out and the hype is settled down (along with dealer's extra hype markup, it's going to be insane)

    Recently sold all my Jeeps. Isn't there a user name change thread here somewhere?
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneTheJeep View Post
    Recently sold all my Jeeps. Isn't there a user name change thread here somewhere?
    EugeneTheJeepAbandonmentor
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Anything you don't build is a mall crawler. Long travel, locked diffs and 5.13s
    I bring a stock TJ (98) running 30s off road almost every day. Bigger might be better in mud or on rocks but in my mature woods and exposed ledge, no way.. I already do too many 7 point turns. The one rock I always drag on I’ll hit with the sledgehammer a couple times.

    I sure as hell don’t want anything nicer and newer for how I’ve been using mine.
    Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

  21. #21
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    I'm pretty excited about the new Bronco and have been following all of the hype for 3+ years now. I'm pretty deep into the Jeep scene and have done more than my fair share of rock crawling. I don't have high hopes for rock crawling in the Bronco but who knows, If I had one, I'm sure I'd give it the ol' college try. I hope to buy the 2 door version in a couple of years.

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    I'm hoping for the two door as well, but looking at the pictures am concerned about room behind the back seats (fit a bike or two?). But the 4 door is only available with a v6

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    and...it's just a Ford...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    I'm hoping for the two door as well, but looking at the pictures am concerned about room behind the back seats (fit a bike or two?). But the 4 door is only available with a v6
    I put my bikes on hitch racks so that doesn't concern me and the 2.7L V6 is one of the best engines made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I put my bikes on hitch racks so that doesn't concern me and the 2.7L V6 is one of the best engines made.

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    But its still a V6, power of a 4, economy of an 8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    and...it's just a Ford...
    Still better than a ChryslersubishiBenzFiat

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    But its still a V6, power of a 4, economy of an 8.
    Power of a 4? I'll wait until you learn a bit more about the engine. Not trying to be rude but that engine has a great amount of power and torque. I could not give a s$#× about economy but that's why this engine exists. If power is really important to you...keep your fingers crossed that Jeep isn't pulling our leg on the 6.4L hemi. I've spent a lot of time in a Jeep with that engine and it's downright evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    Still better than a ChryslersubishiBenzFiat

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    New Bronco you say


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Power of a 4? I'll wait until you learn a bit more about the engine. Not trying to be rude but that engine has a great amount of power and torque. I could not give a s$#× about economy but that's why this engine exists. If power is really important to you...keep your fingers crossed that Jeep isn't pulling our leg on the 6.4L hemi. I've spent a lot of time in a Jeep with that engine and it's downright evil.

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    How is the 2.L going to be any different from any existing v6 you can buy today? All these V6 trucks/suv's/CUV's might have higher horsepower ratings that 4's but can't really do any more work. Load them down with people/cargo and they bog down and get crap economy. 6's are a bad compromise between 4's and 8's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    How is the 2.L going to be any different from any existing v6 you can buy today? All these V6 trucks/suv's/CUV's might have higher horsepower ratings that 4's but can't really do any more work. Load them down with people/cargo and they bog down and get crap economy. 6's are a bad compromise between 4's and 8's.
    If it’s the 2.7 Liter eco boost those little engines do good we have one in a crummy f150. It gets in the mid 20’s on the freeway with a 85 gallon fuel tank in the bed and load of tools plus two people.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    How is the 2.L going to be any different from any existing v6 you can buy today? All these V6 trucks/suv's/CUV's might have higher horsepower ratings that 4's but can't really do any more work. Load them down with people/cargo and they bog down and get crap economy. 6's are a bad compromise between 4's and 8's.
    The very same 4cyl this thing has as the base engine is the same one in my Ranger. It's a killer engine. The 6 will be very nice indeed in this bronco.

    What kind of "work" are you going to be doing with this thing? With the short wheelbase, you won't tow big loads with it, regardless of the engine under the hood. No bed, so it's not like you're going to toss a ton of mulch in the back. Need an 8 for hitting the mall on Friday night?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    6's are a bad compromise between 4's and 8's.
    Ok then.

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  34. #34
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    Is the base model the only one that offers the 4 cyl / 7-spd manual?
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    4-Runner all the way, screw Ford.

  36. #36
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    ^ditto.

    I like to keep my vehicles forever if possible.
    toyota is the shallowest money pit in that regard
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    Don't about all that. I've had some rather trouble free Ford vans with big miles on them.

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  38. #38
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    Saw this on facepalm this morning and it made me laugh.

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-bronco.jpeg
    Will you shut up, man?!

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    The thing that keeps me from wanting the Bronco is ecoboost. I say that as someone who has a ecoboost four cylinder in our driveway (wife's Ford Escape) and has owned multiple Ford trucks with over 200k miles on them. I will never buy another Ecoboost car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Don't about all that. I've had some rather trouble free Ford vans with big miles on them.
    And I had a Honda that needed a new motor at 50 miles (not 50k. Just 50). Anything can happen.
    Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    The thing that keeps me from wanting the Bronco is ecoboost. I say that as someone who has a ecoboost four cylinder in our driveway (wife's Ford Escape) and has owned multiple Ford trucks with over 200k miles on them. I will never buy another Ecoboost car.
    because "reasons" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    The thing that keeps me from wanting the Bronco is ecoboost. I say that as someone who has a ecoboost four cylinder in our driveway (wife's Ford Escape) and has owned multiple Ford trucks with over 200k miles on them. I will never buy another Ecoboost car.
    Ecoboost is just about all that Ford offers anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    because "reasons" ?
    Because I have been fighting constantly with a random stalling problem. Basically after it has run for a while and you park it, if then get back in it and turn it back on after 20-30 minutes the fuel pressure drops and it stalls. The sensor and both fuel pumps have been replaced so far.

    Friend's Escape had the water pump go way before the scheduled maintenance and take out the motor. Two other people I know with Ecoboost 4 cylinder vehicles had a stalling problems but not like the one I have had. One's just shut off on the freeway. I believe that problem was fixed under a recall.
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    The V6 eco boost in my f150 has been great so far. But I've only got 55K miles... in 7 years... I work from home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    4-Runner all the way, screw Ford.
    Agreed.
    While I actually do like what I'm seeing with the new Bronco, I won't be trading my TRD PRO in anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    because "reasons" ?

    my BIL had an escape with many turbo specific issues. Inlet boot torn, wastegate solenoid CELs, O2 sensor failures, wastegate failure. from my past mechanic history I have not seen a high mileage reliable turbo engine from any manufacture. Not gonna lie I love turbochargers, but they come with a price.

    my bronco is mostly all original minus some 4x4 stuff. It's pushing 265k miles. Our highest mile vehicle was an 86 F350 with a 460ci. It gave up at 512k miles. However my wife just get a 2020 Tacoma.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    4-Runner all the way, screw Ford.
    if you put a big bumper on it, you need to beef up the rest of the truck or it looks silly.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Uhmmmm... let someone else be the guinea pig and work out the inevitable first model year issues.
    Too funny! That's exactly my attitude towards new products. I'll let everyone else be a beta tester until the bugs are worked out.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Agreed.
    While I actually do like what I'm seeing with the new Bronco, I won't be trading my TRD PRO in anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Yeah this is obviously aimed directly at jeep which has had zero competition in that segment for a long time. I like jeeps and know a bunch of guys who have them, but when you go wheeling they are everywhere. I am ready to see more variety on the 4x4 trails.

    I have been taking my truck out a bit more to go wheeling with buddies, some of whom have jeeps, but my truck is a pretty basic Silverado 4x4, no lockers, 30inch tires, 2 inch leveling kit up front. and while it is super fun to off road in, it will take some expensive parts to make it better. I found the limitations last time I went out, mostly around no lockers and tires.
    I've done some light off-roading with my TRD Tacoma. In my opinion, by the time you spend enough money in lifts, tires, regearing, winch, etc. to make a 4x4 pickup off-road worthy, you'd be better off buying a side-by-side UTV that will have greater capability than a built truck for less cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    4-Runner all the way, screw Ford.
    While I think this new Bronco is a pretty cool rig, I can't really see myself ever moving away from Toyota.
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    The problem is Toyota won't give us cheap interiors and manual transmissions in the 4Runner. Toyota sets everything up for soccer moms in our country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I've done some light off-roading with my TRD Tacoma. In my opinion, by the time you spend enough money in lifts, tires, regearing, winch, etc. to make a 4x4 pickup off-road worthy, you'd be better off buying a side-by-side UTV that will have greater capability than a built truck for less cost.

    but you have to have a truck and trailer for a SBS and tow it to where you want to go.

    only drawback on new 4x4's other than a jeep is I do not like IFS and CV axles. I had a locker in my 98 taco and blew multiple CVs. I was only running 31in BFGs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    While I think this new Bronco is a pretty cool rig, I can't really see myself ever moving away from Toyota.
    Same here, so happy with my Tacoma the only vehicle I’ve “seriously” thought about replacing it with was another Tacoma or a 4-Runner.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    The new BRONCO

    Same here. Happy with my Tacoma. I have no plans to replace it any time soon, and when I do, it will probably be another Tacoma or a 4Runner.
    But I admit, the Bronco looks good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    but you have to have a truck and trailer for a SBS and tow it to where you want to go.
    I think that if you have a truck, then buying a SBS and trailer would still be a cheaper and better option than modding the truck itself. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that you're also less likely to break things on a SBS than a built truck. I know SBS's are pricey, but modding a pickup gets very expensive quickly. When you mod a pickup, then you also get a lot of compromises for on-road use.

    This is just my opinion and it's not really grounded in a whole lot of data.
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    If they break down in the backcountry can we still call it Found On Road Dead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teleken View Post
    If they break down in the backcountry can we still call it Found On Road Dead?
    Found Off Road Dead?
    Will you shut up, man?!

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    The love for Toyota trucks and SUVs always amuses me. It's an old platform, with an underpowered engine, an old 5 speed transmission and they overcharge for it. That, and they are absolutely terrible offroad. That's an observation after years of offroading with them. It's about 5 years ovedue for more than a cosmetic overhaul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think that if you have a truck, then buying a SBS and trailer would still be a cheaper and better option than modding the truck itself. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that you're also less likely to break things on a SBS than a built truck. I know SBS's are pricey, but modding a pickup gets very expensive quickly. When you mod a pickup, then you also get a lot of compromises for on-road use.

    This is just my opinion and it's not really grounded in a whole lot of data.
    there are many variables depending on what you want to do, if you do it yourself, what platform you have... My big truck I'm still under $4k including the price of the truck. The newer the truck the more it costs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    The love for Toyota trucks and SUVs always amuses me. It's an old platform, with an underpowered engine, an old 5 speed transmission and they overcharge for it. That, and they are absolutely terrible offroad. That's an observation after years of offroading with them. It's about 5 years ovedue for more than a cosmetic overhaul.

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    I certainly wouldn't describe my truck as underpowered. And it has a 6-speed transmission that's great. In it's stock TRD Off-Road form, I'd say it does quite well off-road compared to similar trucks. The most recent overhaul in 2016 was far more than cosmetic with a completely new drivetrain for example. The prices on new ones are pretty comparable to the competition.
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    Ford is grasping at straws now, lol!

    https://www.yahoo.com/autos/unlike-w...200700325.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Is there no 8 cylinder engine available for the new Bronco???

    Am I missing that info somewhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Ford is grasping at straws now, lol!

    https://www.yahoo.com/autos/unlike-w...200700325.html

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's pretty cool actually. Looks like they're squarely targeting Jeep as has been mentioned. I hope they bring back the pinto next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    The newer the truck the more it costs.
    This is pretty much where my thinking came from. People building up newer trucks with all of the expensive modifications. Also, I live in a area with thick forests and the smaller size of a SBS means they can fit more places than a large truck. Jeeps certainly do better than pickups around here unless the truck has been shortened a lot.

    Sorry for the thread derail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    The love for Toyota trucks and SUVs always amuses me. It's an old platform, with an underpowered engine, an old 5 speed transmission and they overcharge for it. That, and they are absolutely terrible offroad. That's an observation after years of offroading with them. It's about 5 years ovedue for more than a cosmetic overhaul.

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    It is probably because they are able to handle any off road that 90% of the population that goes off road needs while not having Jeep build and on-road ride quality (aka crap). And the fact they tend to be very reliable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Also, I live in a area with thick forests

    Sorry for the thread derail.
    Need to mount a commercial brusher and some hydrologic chain saws for the logging roads. I guess that's where builds get so expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Need to mount a commercial brusher and some hydrologic chain saws for the logging roads. I guess that's where builds get so expensive.

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    I think a truck needs serious paint armoring around here due to the thick brush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think a truck needs serious paint armoring around here due to the thick brush.
    Out here its desert pinstripe. but I'm not worried about the paint. On my bronco half is already gone and my truck is too many colors to know the difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Need to mount a commercial brusher and some hydrologic chain saws for the logging roads. I guess that's where builds get so expensive.
    I have an option for hydro PTO on my T-case. I thought about it, they are a 20k lbs winch, but the only problem is your engine has to be running for the PTO to work, which isn't always possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The very same 4cyl this thing has as the base engine is the same one in my Ranger. It's a killer engine. The 6 will be very nice indeed in this bronco.

    What kind of "work" are you going to be doing with this thing? With the short wheelbase, you won't tow big loads with it, regardless of the engine under the hood. No bed, so it's not like you're going to toss a ton of mulch in the back. Need an 8 for hitting the mall on Friday night?
    I'm saying I want the 4 cylinder, not the 6, but I'm afriad I might have to get the 4 door and the 4 cylinder isn't available in it. I don't want a 4 or 6 with an auto transmission and it seems the manual is only available with the 4.

    Grew up in the mountains of WV, 4's and 6's with autos are a transmission shop's preferred config, you need a v8 to keep the auto from shifting all the time.

    Learned the hard lesson with a Chrysler, even if you set the shifter into a lower gear it will still eventually upshift.

    My first truck was a manual transmission 4 cylinder s10, I can tolerate an auto with my v8 now because it can hold itsself in a gear for a while, but I miss the manual and want to go back. Used to overload that little s10 all the time and it took everything I could throw at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think a truck needs serious paint armoring around here due to the thick brush.
    Mine usually just end with a sweet fractal pinstriping. Buddies with newer trucks hate my camp spots...eventually they learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Mine usually just end with a sweet fractal pinstriping. Buddies with newer trucks hate my camp spots...eventually they learn.

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    All the pinstriping from trees will usually buff out, its all the door dings from co-workers that left permanent marks on mine.

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    Around here it's tumbleweed etch-a-sketch.
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    The Bronco looks fun and I’d chose it over a new Jeep 10 times out of 10 but I don’t trust long term durability of a new Ford versus Toyota. Both of my BIL are diehard Ford guys but they both acknowledge the new vehicles don’t last the way their older trucks do and trade in the new ones every couple of years. You’d have to pry their old Fords from their cold dead hands. There also no way I’d pay the dealer premium that’s going to come with all this hype.

    Ultimately, I trust my Toyotas more and keep my vehicles long-term so doubtful I’ll ever have the Bronco. My FJ is 12 years old with 135k miles on it and the 4R is newer but has 40k on it. Both have been rock solid and should continue to be up till 200k+ with normal maintenance.

  74. #74
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    All the Toyo love. The biggest POS I ever owned was '91 4runner. Turns out it was an in-between model.

    New Transmission, engine, a/c, differential, cvjoints... on and on. It was regularly tearing up.

    I hate to admit it, but at some point I just couldn't let it go, I had put so much into it to keep it going. Young and dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    This is pretty much where my thinking came from. People building up newer trucks with all of the expensive modifications. Also, I live in a area with thick forests and the smaller size of a SBS means they can fit more places than a large truck. Jeeps certainly do better than pickups around here unless the truck has been shortened a lot.

    Sorry for the thread derail.
    Full size trucks are more at home on a farm or for hauling large trailers. Serious four wheeling is not their intended purpose. Wide and long wheel bases don’t cut it on serious four wheel drive routes.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Is the Bronco getting the aluminum body?
    Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    All the Toyo love. The biggest POS I ever owned was '91 4runner. Turns out it was an in-between model.

    New Transmission, engine, a/c, differential, cvjoints... on and on. It was regularly tearing up.

    I hate to admit it, but at some point I just couldn't let it go, I had put so much into it to keep it going. Young and dumb.
    I had a 91 4Runner. It went to 383K miles then blew a head gasket. I had the motor rebuilt then sold it. I still see it driving around town 16 years later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The very same 4cyl this thing has as the base engine is the same one in my Ranger. It's a killer engine. The 6 will be very nice indeed in this bronco.

    What kind of "work" are you going to be doing with this thing? With the short wheelbase, you won't tow big loads with it, regardless of the engine under the hood. No bed, so it's not like you're going to toss a ton of mulch in the back. Need an 8 for hitting the mall on Friday night?
    I can fit a half cord of wood in my TJ Rubicon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I had a 91 4Runner. It went to 383K miles then blew a head gasket. I had the motor rebuilt then sold it. I still see it driving around town 16 years later.
    Did you know that year 4-Runner V6 has a recall on the head gasket? That recall went from 1988 to 1992 I believe.

    I had a 1988 4-Runner I bought used in 1994. It was a salvaged title vehicle but pristine in every way. Black and loaded to the hilt with the V6. The head gasket blew a year into ownership, Toyota gave me a brand new motor from the heads down. Seriously! It was a salvaged vehicle and bought used. They backed it up and put a new motor in for me. I was the last customer at my dealership that they did this for. All others just got heads and block resurfaced. I had 3 Toyota trucks prior to that 4-Runner and loved all of them. After going through this and what Toyota did for me I’ve been sold ever since. Granted I’ve had other vehicles from other manufacturers between that ride and my current Taco. my return to Toyota was due to dependability, low maintenance and that experience with Toyota stepping up.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    The love for Toyota trucks and SUVs always amuses me. It's an old platform, with an underpowered engine, an old 5 speed transmission and they overcharge for it. That, and they are absolutely terrible offroad. That's an observation after years of offroading with them. It's about 5 years ovedue for more than a cosmetic overhaul.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    People conveniently forget how the frames rotted away on the 1st gen Tacomas, some 2nd gen Tacomas, and I wouldn't be surprised if some 3rd gens show up with rot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    The biggest POS I ever owned was '91 4runner. Turns out it was an in-between model.
    Same. Went through 2 head gasket replacements with the 3VZ-E engine on my '91. First one was under warranty, the 2nd one not so much -- and that one blew one day after coming back from a 2,000 mile road trip.

    -BUT- still running "strong" up in McCall Idaho. I gave it to my BIL as a cabin vehicle that we drive when we vacation up there. Still goes fine up the mountain for skiing, or around the lake towing the ski boat to the launch. That county doesn't require smog, so when the EGR valve went tango-uniform, he just bypassed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Did you know that year 4-Runner V6 has a recall on the head gasket? That recall went from 1988 to 1992 I believe.
    I could be wrong but I think that gasket was introduced in 1990. Ironically, that year they went away from using asbestos in the gasket…
    EDIT: I was wrong -- 1988.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    People conveniently forget how the frames rotted away on the 1st gen Tacomas, some 2nd gen Tacomas, and I wouldn't be surprised if some 3rd gens show up with rot.
    Please explain what generation you are talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Same. Went through 2 head gasket replacements with the 3VZ-E engine on my '91. First one was under warranty, the 2nd one not so much -- and that one blew one day after coming back from a 2,000 mile road trip.

    -BUT- still running "strong" up in McCall Idaho. I gave it to my BIL as a cabin vehicle that we drive when we vacation up there. Still goes fine up the mountain for skiing, or around the lake towing the ski boat to the launch. That county doesn't require smog, so when the EGR valve went tango-uniform, he just bypassed it.



    I could be wrong but I think that gasket was introduced in 1990. Ironically, that year they went away from using asbestos in the gasket…

    You are wrong on the year, 1988 was when it was introduced, the year vehicle I had the issue and they covered it. The asbestos gasket thing has been talked about via the Internet, however it was never been confirmed [that I have found] or in person by Toyota as the culprit. Only on Internet searches by customers have I heard this. When it happened to me it was interpreted to me by Toyota as a head to block surface defect. All I care about is that they backed it up with all the forgoing issues I had.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Please explain what generation you are talking about. According to Edmunds, you are referring to the 4th generation. My 2006 Taco and beyond falling into the “eighth” generation.

    Should I be worried?

    https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/history.html.html
    Or you can look it up yourself since you own one, and honestly it's something you should already know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Looks awesome.
    Agree, it looks great with the 35’s.

    I preordered the four door, second model up, and plan on the Sasquatch package.

    Hoping sales are dominated by 16 year old girls like the wrangler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    People conveniently forget how the frames rotted away on the 1st gen Tacomas, some 2nd gen Tacomas, and I wouldn't be surprised if some 3rd gens show up with rot.
    I've never had a car with rust but I live in Socal. My Jeep is 16 years old and just hit 88,888 miles and doesn't have a single rust spot on the frame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    Or you can look it up yourself since you own one, and honestly it's something you should already know.
    2005 to 2015 considered the 2nd generation. Is that the years you are talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    I really do like the new bronco, but I think most will end up being mall crawlers with 20" plus wheels or the "custom" jeeps with every accessory that you never needed.

    I just need a truck that if I tip it over off road, well, that sucks so lets try again. I only tipped my tacoma over once and it wasn't too bad. but that truck was totaled and restored salvage twice.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    2005 to 2015 considered the 2nd generation. Is that the years you are talking about?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma

    1st gen most definitely had rusty frame problems, with a recall and even an extended frame warranty from Toyota. You won't have to google hard to find plenty of examples. 2nd gen also got a recall campaign for certain years and areas of the US; if yours is an '06 the recall period is over since it depended in getting a frame inspection at a dealer within a certain time frame of being notified to take it if you qualified depending on year and location of truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    You are wrong on the year, 1988 was when it was introduced, the year vehicle I had the issue and they covered it. The asbestos gasket thing has been talked about via the Internet, however it was never been confirmed [that I have found] or in person by Toyota as the culprit. Only on Internet searches by customers have I heard this. When it happened to me it was interpreted to me by Toyota as a head to block surface defect. All I care about is that they backed it up with all the forgoing issues I had.
    My mistake on the year. I must have been thinking of the year Gen 2 was introduced.

    I've seen various descriptions of the culprit, including the asbestos change, and poor coolant flow to the back of the engine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    New Bronco you say


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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think a truck needs serious paint armoring around here due to the thick brush.
    Nothing like a little custom pin striping like from Vine Maple right before it breaks your glass out.


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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Anything you don't build is a mall crawler. Long travel, locked diffs and 5.13s
    mall crawler...that is definitely getting added to the lexicon...
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    I've had 2 90 4Runners. One was a 22RE 5 speed that went over 400k miles and was a solid truck. The other was a 3.0 V6 that should have been part of the V6 "head gasket" recall, but wasn't. Toyota agreed in the class action suit to certain serial number ranges and skipped other offenders. Mine was skipped, but had the exact same issue. The head gasket was really the fault of a poor design in the area around #1 and #6 cylinders. The water passage was too close to the combustion chamber and even the "improved" head gaskets failed.

    I liked those trucks, but honestly, the bodies on them were tinny as hell. The damn things dented on a whim. Also the structure under the dash which supported the clutch and brake pedals was flimsy as shit. They cracked and broke and resulted in lots of clutches and clutch master cylinders being replaced unnecessarily.

    Again, I liked both trucks, but they definitely had issues.
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    I'm laughing at the ford vs jeep debate here.

    Hope ford figured out how to build a transmission that's suitable.

    Jeep hasnt made one worth owning since they did away with the 3.8L. At least that engine wasnt total garbage. Bring back the 4.0L The newer 3.6L engines are shit. Needing heads because rockets come apart and jam intake valves open.

    Bronco looks cool but I wouldn't take a new Ford if it was given to me free and clear.

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    That Rambler straight 6 was a great engine. After beta testing, I bet the bronco is more problem free than the Jeep. I hope Toyota buys Jeep in the next bankruptcy.

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    The Ford straight 6 is regarded as one of the most reliable engines of all time. As was said I wouldn't equate small displacement and turbos with longevity and low maintenance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma

    1st gen most definitely had rusty frame problems, with a recall and even an extended frame warranty from Toyota. You won't have to google hard to find plenty of examples. 2nd gen also got a recall campaign for certain years and areas of the US; if yours is an '06 the recall period is over since it depended in getting a frame inspection at a dealer within a certain time frame of being notified to take it if you qualified depending on year and location of truck.
    They had a leaf spring recall which I finally addressed and replaced a month ago. I’m the original owner and never received anything about a frame issue. Maybe because mine was purchased in San Diego where there’s not a salty road enemy. Next time I’m at the dealer I’ll be inquiring about this. Although they ran all recalls per vin # and addressed them a month ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    This thread makes me feel guilty about my 66 collecting dust. Three on the tree keeps getting stuck in first. I need to suck it up and get some lights in the garage and start tinkering.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The Ford straight 6 is regarded as one of the most reliable engines of all time. As was said I wouldn't equate small displacement and turbos with longevity and low maintenance.
    The 300 6cyl was awesome. The 4.0HO jeep motors were strong but hated rod bearings.

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    Last edited by Finch Platte; 07-16-2020 at 05:54 AM. Reason: Sump Trucks!!!
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    I remember the straight six, that would make a good engine if they would bring it back. Lots of low rpm torque, which is whats needed for a truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Jeep hasnt made one worth owning since they did away with the 3.8L. At least that engine wasnt total garbage. Bring back the 4.0L The newer 3.6L engines are shit.
    You are the only person I've ever heard that included the 3.8L in a list of good engines. That thing is an underpowered dog. As a matter of fact, it's always highly recommended when searching for a used Jeep to avoid those years.

    The 3.6L has been produced in the millions and is an excellent power plant. Making 285hp and great torque. It's a solid engine. That's why it's been included in all new Jeeps with minimal changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You are the only person I've ever heard that included the 3.8L in a list of good engines. That thing is an underpowered dog. As a matter of fact, it's always highly recommended when searching for a used Jeep to avoid those years.

    The 3.6L has been produced in the millions and is an excellent power plant. Making 285hp and great torque. It's a solid engine. That's why it's been included in all new Jeeps with minimal changes.

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    Yeah, I was perplexed when I read that statement as well.
    I had an '07 and even though it was a 2 door with factory 4.10s, it was still a dog.
    Later, when I bought a '14 JK (and a '15 JKU), the difference was night and day.

    Just this month, my daughter was looking at used JK/JL Wranglers, and my advice was anything '11 or older should be avoided because of the 3.8.

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    Ok, how about this:

    Jeep hasn't made a good one since it was bought out by Chrysler/Shitsubi/Benz/Fiat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The Ford straight 6 is regarded as one of the most reliable engines of all time. As was said I wouldn't equate small displacement and turbos with longevity and low maintenance.

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    I think all of the straight 6's were dead reliable. Even the Chrysler slant 6.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    They had a leaf spring recall which I finally addressed and replaced a month ago. I’m the original owner and never received anything about a frame issue. Maybe because mine was purchased in San Diego where there’s not a salty road enemy. Next time I’m at the dealer I’ll be inquiring about this. Although they ran all recalls per vin # and addressed them a month ago.
    Yeah I also got the new leafs about 2 years ago. The frame thing was part of a lawsuit settlement with Toyota, so it had a time frame attached to it. Basically it said if you have concerns about rust in your frame, you arranged an inspection at your dealer and they would determine if you got a frame fix or a new frame. Sounds like you had nothing to worry about anyway, and I never took mine in since it's been in the south its whole life.

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    I remember those older Toyotas from the 80's through the 90's. I think they came rusted from the factory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    Ok, how about this:

    Jeep hasn't made a good one since it was bought out by Chrysler/Shitsubi/Benz/Fiat.
    You keep saying this like anyone cares or agrees. Fact is, Wrangler sales exploded since Chrysler and then Fiat took over. Jeep still makes an amzing vehicle that can outwheel any mass produced rig right off the showroom floor. There's a reason it is the top dog and the vehicle that every other car company compares their new off road capable vehicles to. Jeep is THE benchmark.

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  111. #111
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    I just skimmed through the links Finch put up and I've made an informed decision that will shape my future purchasing . I never want my off-roader to have any sort of "info-tainment system". Not ever.


    That's all I have to say about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You keep saying this like anyone cares or agrees. Fact is, Wrangler sales exploded since Chrysler and then Fiat took over. Jeep still makes an amzing vehicle that can outwheel any mass produced rig right off the showroom floor. There's a reason it is the top dog and the vehicle that every other car company compares their new off road capable vehicles to. Jeep is THE benchmark.

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    We have a new JL Rubicon. It is quite frankly the most ridiculously capable "showroom floor" thing I've ever driven. Stock with 33's and room for 35's without a lift, locking diffs, disconnect sway bar standard, and all sorts of other goodies. Goes down the highway just fine, stupid fun offroad. This is my 4th wrangler over the last 30 years, from a late 80's underpowered 4 banger to the new JL. Loved them all.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    Ok, how about this:

    Jeep hasn't made a good one since it was bought out by Chrysler/Shitsubi/Benz/Fiat.
    Now you can add Peugeot to the list. UGH!

    But yeah, they are still ridiculously capable right from the showroom floor.
    Will you shut up, man?!

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I just skimmed through the links Finch put up and I've made an informed decision that will shape my future purchasing . I never want my off-roader to have any sort of "info-tainment system". Not ever.


    That's all I have to say about that.
    You can get most vehicles bone stock. Chances are though, you'll have to order it. All of these offroaders are marketed to the general public who have weird notions that owning a badass rig with capabilities they'll never use, will somehow make them cooler. As such, most of these people want creature comforts as well. Dealers don't bring in base model vehicles because they don't sell. Hell, even my Polaris RZR Turbo S has an infotainment system. Guess you can always buy a 30 year old rig and weld it up yourself to be a trailer queen offroader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You keep saying this like anyone cares or agrees. Fact is, Wrangler sales exploded since Chrysler and then Fiat took over. Jeep still makes an amzing vehicle that can outwheel any mass produced rig right off the showroom floor. There's a reason it is the top dog and the vehicle that every other car company compares their new off road capable vehicles to. Jeep is THE benchmark.

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    I was actually just being facetious for the best engine conversation. But think about it for a bit, why have Jeep Sales exploded, there are no others around. Through the 90's to early 2000's you had Blazers(K5 and S10), Bronco's/Bronco II's, Suzuki Samuri, Geo Traker, Nissan Xterra, etc. Manufacturers started dropping those to focus on front wheel drive because they are cheaper to manufacture and met the fuel economy regulations. So the last decade everyone that wanted to replace their Bronco/Blazer/Suzuki/xterra had to buy a Jeep or a wrong wheel drive. Its easy to be top when no one else is competing.

    Its like in the 90's when people would try to justify why they still used AOL. When AOL was the only way for an home used to get to the internet then of course it was top dog. But when something else came along everyone left because anything else was better.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    I remember those older Toyotas from the 80's through the 90's. I think they came rusted from the factory.
    *Clear throat*
    You owe me a bowl of chicken noodle soup. Half of mine just exited through my nose, noodles and all, thank you very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I just skimmed through the links Finch put up and I've made an informed decision that will shape my future purchasing . I never want my off-roader to have any sort of "info-tainment system". Not ever.


    That's all I have to say about that.
    Same here. I currently have a lever transfer case shifter on the floor. I don't do much wheeling, but need a low range for the farm in WV. Until now that meant a truck or a heep, now we have more choice.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    I was actually just being facetious for the best engine conversation. But think about it for a bit, why have Jeep Sales exploded, there are no others around. Through the 90's to early 2000's you had Blazers(K5 and S10), Bronco's/Bronco II's, Suzuki Samuri, Geo Traker, Nissan Xterra, etc. Manufacturers started dropping those to focus on front wheel drive because they are cheaper to manufacture and met the fuel economy regulations. So the last decade everyone that wanted to replace their Bronco/Blazer/Suzuki/xterra had to buy a Jeep or a wrong wheel drive. Its easy to be top when no one else is competing.

    Its like in the 90's when people would try to justify why they still used AOL. When AOL was the only way for an home used to get to the internet then of course it was top dog. But when something else came along everyone left because anything else was better.
    Jeep sales exploded because they had the best vehicle for the job. They drove everyone else out of the market. They exploded even more, significantly more, when they played to the soccer moms and made a 4 door. It amazingly still made for an awesome all around rig and rock crawler. As I said, it's the benchmark. That's undeniable. Every manufacturer that wants to play in this segment must compare themselves to the Wrangler. I would love a new Bronco and I'm sure I'll get one eventually but If I wanted to keep doing what I do now, I'd have to stick with the Wrangler as anything with IFS will fall short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Jeep sales exploded because they had the best vehicle for the job. They drove everyone else out of the market. They exploded even more, significantly more, when they played to the soccer moms and made a 4 door. It amazingly still made for an awesome all around rig and rock crawler. As I said, it's the benchmark. That's undeniable. Every manufacturer that wants to play in this segment must compare themselves to the Wrangler. I would love a new Bronco and I'm sure I'll get one eventually but If I wanted to keep doing what I do now, I'd have to stick with the Wrangler as anything with IFS will fall short.

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    They had the only vehicle for the job.

    Ford was the same for a while with the CV. Police departments were suing Ford because the gas tank was in the rear and then getting upset because Ford wouldn't let those same departments buy more. it was the only full size RWD car for a number of years.
    When you have the only vehicle in a segment then you become the benchmark.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You can get most vehicles bone stock. Chances are though, you'll have to order it. All of these offroaders are marketed to the general public who have weird notions that owning a badass rig with capabilities they'll never use, will somehow make them cooler. As such, most of these people want creature comforts as well. Dealers don't bring in base model vehicles because they don't sell. Hell, even my Polaris RZR Turbo S has an infotainment system. Guess you can always buy a 30 year old rig and weld it up yourself to be a trailer queen offroader.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Mine is a '98 I got a couple years ago that still has less than 95k miles on it. I don't need it built up at all but I couldn't use anything less capable either. It's exactly the right scale for the trail it most often climbs. It came with a cd player ....removeable face plate awesomeness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    They exploded even more, significantly more, when they played to the soccer moms and made a 4 door.
    It amazes me the number of people who buy Wranglers and never use them off road because they are just god awful on the road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    It amazes me the number of people who buy Wranglers and never use them off road because they are just god awful on the road.
    Wife wants a 4 door for her next "car". Women like convertibles. Again, the only vehicle on the market until the bronco.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    It amazes me the number of people who buy Wranglers and never use them off road because they are just god awful on the road.
    I'm a bit disgusted by all the Rubicons without a speck of dirt on them.
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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    They had the only vehicle for the job.

    Ford was the same for a while with the CV. Police departments were suing Ford because the gas tank was in the rear and then getting upset because Ford wouldn't let those same departments buy more. it was the only full size RWD car for a number of years.
    When you have the only vehicle in a segment then you become the benchmark.
    Again, they were the only vehicle because others couldn't compete and they drove them out of the market. It's also not being honest to say they were the only vehicle. Toyota and Land Rover continue to compete, and still compare themselves in marketing to Jeep. Jeep drove out Scout, Ford, Chevy, Hummer and the Toyota FJ. Any others? The market is there...they just couldn't hang. Hell, Chevy brought the Jimmy back as a f#$&ing car. Ford is going all in on the Bronco and they are not being shy about targeting the Wrangler. They want a piece of that billion dollar pie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Again, they were the only vehicle because others couldn't compete and they drove them out of the market. It's also not being honest to say they were the only vehicle. Toyota and Land Rover continue to compete, and still compare themselves in marketing to Jeep. Jeep drove out Scout, Ford, Chevy, Hummer and the Toyota FJ. Any others? The market is there...they just couldn't hang. Hell, Chevy brought the Jimmy back as a f#$&ing car. Ford is going all in on the Bronco and they are not being shy about targeting the Wrangler. They want a piece of that billion dollar pie.

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    Only partly true that others couldn't hang, as the high gas prices and recession of '08 sealed the deal for off-road toys IMO. Toyota went after the mall crawler crowd with the FJ, iterations of the 4runner, and they went all in on full size truck segment with the Tundra and EVs with the Prius so they chose to pick their battles. A niche product line doesn't make that much money overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    Only partly true that others couldn't hang, as the high gas prices and recession of '08 sealed the deal for off-road toys IMO. Toyota went after the mall crawler crowd with the FJ, iterations of the 4runner, and they went all in on full size truck segment with the Tundra and EVs with the Prius so they chose to pick their battles. A niche product line doesn't make that much money overall.
    There was still competition. The early Pathfinder and Trooper were legit. We had theExplorer, Expedition, Excursion, Suburban,and Tahoe. The popularity of crew cab pickups probably stepped in filling the void left by the fig Bronco and Blazer.

    The gas crisis in'78 changed the car/ truck market. there was crazy inflation at that point too.

    A long labor strike drove the final nail in the IH coffin in 1980.
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    Jeep didn’t drive the Toyota FJ out and arguably didn’t drive Hummer out. Both of these vehicles met declining sales when gas prices escalated and people moved to more fuel efficient vehicles. Additionally, the EPA set “fleet” overall MGP targets which further encouraged car manufacturers to push towards fuel efficiency. This was also the time when Jeep started introducing other small variations of their non-Wrangler vehicles and you saw Grand Cherokee sales decline. This shift was industry wide to fuel economy and manufacturers deciding how to manage to those new requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    It amazes me the number of people who buy Wranglers and never use them off road because they are just god awful on the road.
    Have you actually driven a 4 door JK/JL?

    My '15 JKU (Rubicon) had amazing road manners for a solid axle vehicle. Even after the lift (AEV 2.5") and 35s, I had no issue driving 80-85 mph down the highway.

    Granted, it's no Honda Civic - then again, how is your Civic in 18" of snow?

    I agree though. If you buy a Jeep, you owe it yourself and the vehicle to "wheel-it" on occasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Have you actually driven a 4 door JK/JL?

    My '15 JKU (Rubicon) had amazing road manners for a solid axle vehicle. Even after the lift (AEV 2.5") and 35s, I had no issue driving 80-85 mph down the highway.

    Granted, it's no Honda Civic - then again, how is your Civic in 18" of snow?

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    Yeah I have driven a earlier 3.8 and two newer 3.6s. They are loud, ill handling and have terrible ergonomics. Don't get me wrong I totally get why off road enthusiast buy them. I just don't get people who don't use them off road buying them as a daily.

    My Civic is also terrible on the road considering it is lowered, on stiff ass springs and has no A/C so it is also loud and not comfortable. If there is 18in of snow in Alabama I have bigger things to worry about lol

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    The thing I never liked about the FJ were those insane blindspots!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Have you actually driven a 4 door JK/JL? Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    The JL's drive and handle significantly better than the JK's.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamu8104 View Post
    Jeep didn’t drive the Toyota FJ out and arguably didn’t drive Hummer out. Both of these vehicles met declining sales when gas prices escalated and people moved to more fuel efficient vehicles. Additionally, the EPA set “fleet” overall MGP targets which further encouraged car manufacturers to push towards fuel efficiency. This was also the time when Jeep started introducing other small variations of their non-Wrangler vehicles and you saw Grand Cherokee sales decline. This shift was industry wide to fuel economy and manufacturers deciding how to manage to those new requirements.
    And yet during that same time the Wrangler saw record sales. Not because it was the only vehicle in its class but because it was so awesome at what it could do. There is a lot of money to be made on road worthy, but offroad excelling, vehicles. Fj and Hummer were totally driven out by Jeep. If they were as capable as the Wrangler, then buyers overlook things like road manners and fuel economy. That's obvious as the Wrangler isn't good at either. If buyers only cared about those things, Wrangler would also cease to exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    And yet during that same time the Wrangler saw record sales. Not because it was the only vehicle in its class but because it was so awesome at what it could do. There is a lot of money to be made on road worthy, but offroad excelling, vehicles. Fj and Hummer were totally driven out by Jeep. If they were as capable as the Wrangler, then buyers overlook things like road manners and fuel economy. That's obvious as the Wrangler isn't good at either. If buyers only cared about those things, Wrangler would also cease to exist.

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    My Rubicon gets crap gas mileage, is slow and handles like a stagecoach on the road, but I'll be buried in it. Then I'll drive it up out of the hole.
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    My Rubicon gets crap gas mileage, is slow and handles like a stagecoach on the road, but I'll be buried in it. Then I'll drive it up out of the hole.
    Exactly

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  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'm a bit disgusted by all the Rubicons without a speck of dirt on them.
    I wheel the crap out of mine. How could you live in an area that's difficult enough to have a Jeep Jamboree?
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  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I wheel the crap out of mine. How could you live in an area that's difficult enough to have a Jeep Jamboree?
    I wheel the holy hell out of mine but (just like my mountain bikes), I'm meticulous and clean it religiously. I love getting lumped in with the Mall Crawlers.

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  138. #138
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    The first gen Bronco has always been my favorite 4-wheeler of all time. This new one is going retro trying to copy that look. My brother had a 1969 in the 1980’s. Another one that slipped my grasp. Unfortunately I think I missed my window. You can still get good ones in the $30K and up range though. Unfortunately the fixed up ones and the restored versions are a bit off the chart.

    Bottom line, I’d take a dialed out one of these over this new one. The new one no doubt is still a nice piece though. Love Jeeps as well. Old K5 Blazers always get me pumped up if done up right. As do old FJ’s.

    Here’s the gem of the bunch in my opinion. First gen Bronco built to play.

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-230fcd36-38b4-48ce-9d3e-071e5942c814.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I wheel the holy hell out of mine but (just like my mountain bikes), I'm meticulous and clean it religiously. I love getting lumped in with the Mall Crawlers.

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    I haven't washed my Jeep in over two years. One bike I've never washed, one has dirt from Sedona on it so that's at least four years and another bike has puke on the downtube from 2012.. Everything is serviced and race ready though.
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    I've seen Apple-like following for Toyota but not as much for Jeep until now.
    I took my driver's test in a '79 Blazer. "Parallel park between those cones", "Those itty bitty things way down there"?

    The old Bronco's sure look nice but yeah the cost has went crazy lately.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    The first gen Bronco has always been my favorite 4-wheeler of all time. This new one is going retro trying to copy that look. My brother had a 1969 in the 1980’s. Another one that slipped my grasp. Unfortunately I think I missed my window. You can still get good ones in the $30K and up range though. Unfortunately the fixed up ones and the restored versions are a bit off the chart.

    Bottom line, I’d take a dialed out one of these over this new one. The new one no doubt is still a nice piece though. Love Jeeps as well. Old K5 Blazers always get me pumped up if done up right. As do old FJ’s.

    Here’s the gem of the bunch in my opinion. First gen Bronco built to play.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My neighbor has a 69 Bronco that he purchased brand new. It's still in mint condition. I'm seeing TJ Wranglers appreciating. Especially here in the west. I follow a TJ FB group and most that are posted are rust buckets so rust free examples with low mileage are fetching a premium. I rolled my Rubicon in 2002. Insurance paid me 18.5K. I bought it back and built it into what it is now and could get the same for it. I've been offered more but I'd just go get another so what's the point?
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  142. #142
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    Old Broncos are soooo sexy. There was a fully restored but heavily modified version at the local 4x4 shop. They wanted $125k for it. I wished I was wealthy.

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  143. #143
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    Story on one of my first first gen Bronco experiences. My brother had a 1969 basically stock one. I moved to San Diego in 1987 from Colorado and had the privilege of driving it many times. I was pissed when he sold it and I wasn’t in the position to buy it.

    Fast forward just a month or so after moving to San Diego and experiencing his first gen Bronco.

    I had just moved to SD at the age of 26. I was working a construction job, a fellow worker had a bad ass lifted first gen Bronco. Stock paint, light green with white wheels & oversized tires / and lifted but not so much, perfect desert rig and never with the top on. No bikini top, just bare bones desert rig. I walked by that beast with admiration over and over. I knew what it was, few others did. Granted it was in 1987, still I knew. I noticed a bumper sticker on it, the sticker read “ Where the Hell is Boulevard”? I laughed so many times passing that sticker but wrote it off in my head as it’s a 4-wheeler and it’s meant for off road, hello!

    Fast forward 20 some years later. Duh! It hit me. Boulevard was / is a tiny town in the desert of east San Diego. Lol!

    So pissed at myself for not knowing this back in the day. Great guy that owned that Bronco, I just never questioned the sticker.

    Here it is 33 years later and that bumper sticker and vehicle played a key role in my mind for my desire of the first gen Bronco. And I’ve never ever been a Ford guy. Few Fords have effected me the way the first gen Bronco has.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  144. #144
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    I had a sticker on my 93 Bronco that read 'Where the hell is Mentone Beach. The 93 was white, an XLT with a 351W and 4 inch Camburg lift and Auburn posi. My brother wrecked that one. After that I bought a Titan which was Lemon Lawed, then a Taco crew cab with a long bed. Ex took that.

    ETA. Mentone sticker on my beer fridge
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-20200716_171247.jpg  

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  145. #145
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    Lol - 👍
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    I'd like to find a mint AMC Eagle.

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  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I'd like to find a mint AMC Eagle.

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    Excuse me while I ....🤮
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I'd like to find a mint AMC Eagle.

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    I had something very close. A 2005 Audi Allroad with adjustable suspension. It could be slammed or as high as a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It had a hotrodded twin turbo motor.
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  150. #150
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  151. #151
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    And if you belong to Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/suvs...bronco-review/

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-broncos.jpg
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  152. #152
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    I've never been a Ford guy, but would pick up a first gen Bronco in a heartbeat for the right price. They rode better on the highway than an FJ40, but were more prone to flipping in the turns than an FJ.

    The first gen Bronco and the FJ40 had similar offroad capabilities, but I always preferred the FJ. Still do apparently.

    Mine:
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-img_5800.jpg

    My Kid's:
    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-img_5681_rot.jpg

    Teach them to love 4x4s and mountain bikes and they'll never have money for drugs. We're well past that now and they both love their bikes and trucks.
    Will you shut up, man?!

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I had something very close. A 2005 Audi Allroad with adjustable suspension. It could be slammed or as high as a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It had a hotrodded twin turbo motor.
    So, a hot rodded grandma grocery getter capable of going off road if chased by a grandpa?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  154. #154
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    Love your FJs, Chuck! So jealous.

    There's a red one near me, sitting in someone's side yard and looks like it's slowly being consumed by an out-of-control bougainvillea shrub. No for sale sign. I was going to try to catch the neighbor outside to ask if they'd consider selling it, until I noticed the rust eating away the rear quarter panels. No thanks.
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  155. #155
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    If I was buying an older off roader, I'd get an early 2 door Range Rover because I don't like myself very much.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (about town bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Love your FJs, Chuck! So jealous.

    There's a red one near me, sitting in someone's side yard and looks like it's slowly being consumed by an out-of-control bougainvillea shrub. No for sale sign. I was going to try to catch the neighbor outside to ask if they'd consider selling it, until I noticed the rust eating away the rear quarter panels. No thanks.
    Thanks man. I'm starting to drive the 45 more and more. Still sorting out a couple of things before I truly trust it though. It's been out of service since '05, so it stands to reason I need to be a little cautious.

    There are good 40s out there for decent prices still (for now). If you ever get serious about locating one, I may be able to help.
    Will you shut up, man?!

  157. #157
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    I'm betting that SEMA 2021 will be all Broncos. Anyone want to take that bet? Similar to how 2019 was all Gladiators and Supras. I honestly can't wait to see what these companies can do with them. I know that Rock Krawler has been prototyping a lift kit for it based tentatively on the Ranger.

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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Old Broncos are soooo sexy. There was a fully restored but heavily modified version at the local 4x4 shop. They wanted $125k for it. I wished I was wealthy.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    We have a couple in town and I absolutely salivate every time I see them. I am pretty anti social, and even I went and struck up a conversation with the owner of one of them. Have always loved them, just never had the cash at the time when one was available.

    My lifted jeep on 37's may be on the selling block(not really as it's paid for, but would be fun to have both in the stable)

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I'm betting that SEMA 2021 will be all Broncos. Anyone want to take that bet? Similar to how 2019 was all Gladiators and Supras. I honestly can't wait to see what these companies can do with them. I know that Rock Krawler has been prototyping a lift kit for it based tentatively on the Ranger.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Refer to post #15 at the bottom. I even bolded it back when I posted it. I’m betting on all these high end new Broncos that were purchased before they even were released will be at the auctions marked up from sticker price. Happens every time a highly anticipated vehicle launch.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I wheel the crap out of mine. How could you live in an area that's difficult enough to have a Jeep Jamboree?
    And that's how it should be. I don't think the Rubicon's purpose is to haul kids to soccer practice and never be taken off-road. Seems like a waste of resources.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I've never been a Ford guy, but would pick up a first gen Bronco in a heartbeat for the right price. They rode better on the highway than an FJ40, but were more prone to flipping in the turns than an FJ.

    The first gen Bronco and the FJ40 had similar offroad capabilities, but I always preferred the FJ. Still do apparently.

    Mine:


    My Kid's:


    Teach them to love 4x4s and mountain bikes and they'll never have money for drugs. We're well past that now and they both love their bikes and trucks.
    I had a '76 FJ-40 in high school. I four-wheeled the hell out of it and it never broke. My friends with CJ's were always fixing something when I invited them out to the trails. That rig put me on the Toyota path.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Refer to post #15 at the bottom. I even bolded it back when I posted it. I’m betting on all these high end new Broncos that were purchased before they even were released will be at the auctions marked up from sticker price. Happens every time a highly anticipated vehicle launch.
    Maybe a couple. Not really enough to raise eyebrows. It's risky because if Ford has decent production numbers, the resale on those won't justify the effort.

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  163. #163
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    FWIW Suzuki Samurai blows all those Jeeps and everything else away offroad
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    FWIW Suzuki Samurai blows all those Jeeps and everything else away offroad
    It's funny you say that... I watched one one day out wheeling YEARS ago and was blown away at how well it did.
    Will you shut up, man?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    FWIW Suzuki Samurai blows all those Jeeps and everything else away offroad
    And blows itsself off the road in a strong wind

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    FWIW Suzuki Samurai blows all those Jeeps and everything else away offroad
    Having spotted many of those through difficult spots, I will say they're complete...well. Crap. If they hold together long enough, then they'll probably roll over. I guess they're a fun, cheap way to beat the daylights out of yourself.

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  167. #167
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    Lots of great comments here and a bunch of very wrong ones.

    The guys who think Toyota's have no faults and other brands are much worse are just wrong.

    I had a Toyota Truck with the 22R that blew up just above 100k and I have owned a few Chevrolet products that went strong until I sold them well above 200k. Sometimes you get a faulty motor, some vehicles do have lower build quality from the factory and some motors are just not as good as others.

    When you consider Chevy, Ford and Dodge, the full size trucks are their true "halo" vehicles and thus are built the best and have the best reliability of what they make. I currently own 2 GM products, both have LS motors in them. The LS is one of the most stout and reliable platforms GM has ever made after the 5.7l 350ci v8's.

    I am not really afraid of the 2 engine choices Ford is offering, neither are brand new in their line-up. I also don't think they are going to have a ton of new model woes, that sort of thing is not too common these days.

    As much as I want one of these new Bronco's, I own my Silverado. I have 180k miles on it and everything is solid. I had a gear fail in the Transmission recently, but at 180k being the first issue is not something I would call poor build quality. The motor is the 4.8L LS small block and is all original. I have replaced the starter and did have a weird issue with the Power Steering when I first purchased it back at 86k, I picked up the used car warranty and got it all covered by that. Otherwise just consumables.

    I want to make it a bit more trail capable, but have no intention of any extreme rock crawling, it is a big rig, but I was the only one attempting this "gatekeeper" at a 4x4 area a Lake Silverwood near Big Bear, CA. It was only Jeeps and a single Land Cruiser Series 80 that made it up this hill. I liked that I was unique.

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-mk-silverado-pilot-rock-squirrel-cage-02.png

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-mk-silverado-pilot-rock-squirrel-cage-01.png

    I only have 30 inch tires and a 2 inch Leveling kit up front and I did not air down. I got a little hung up on the frame due to the hump I was trying to clear, but I think I can fit some 33's on the truck with minimal trimming. Tires will be my next upgrade and I will go with an aggressive off-road tread as this truck does not need to be driven much.

    Wish List if i had the cash now:
    * Front and rear Lockers
    * 4 inch Lift
    * Baja style front bumper to give better approach angle

    I tried to get up this rock section, but with the tires being street tread and approaching end of life and no lockers I was spinning 2 tires.

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  168. #168
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    As with Klurejr, I'm super satisfied with my 6.0 LS/LQ in my 2000 Suburban 3/4t 4WD. Dead reliable and now with 176K mi. is still in very good shape. My wife keeps telling me it's time to replace it but I can't imagine what I would replace it with. It's been paid for for years and the new ones are over $70k and not available in a 3/4 ton platform any more. I tow everything with this, so I want the 3/4t. I want overkill with my towing capacity as much as I can.
    Will you shut up, man?!

  169. #169
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    My Tacoma with Crawl Control and locker does pretty well on steep stuff. I can't seem to post the video clip of it though.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Thanks man. I'm starting to drive the 45 more and more. Still sorting out a couple of things before I truly trust it though. It's been out of service since '05, so it stands to reason I need to be a little cautious.

    There are good 40s out there for decent prices still (for now). If you ever get serious about locating one, I may be able to help.
    Thanks for the offer. Getting kids out of college is my first, biggest hurdle. Coincidentally, my daughter goes to Boise St. and you don't need to venture very far out of the city to see some FJs for sale on the roadsides (tons of newer 4x4s as well).

    We do have an '05 TJ "Rocky Mountain Edition" that we bought used a few years ago with <72K on it. 4.0L, 6-spd manual, 30" tires, Dana 44 and Trac-Lok in the rear. I don't ever foresee doing offroading where I'd need lockers. Soft top forever -- no desire to shell out big bucks for a hard top. The body is cherry. It dribbles a little oil (don't we all?). I did have to replace the catalytic converters ($oof).

    I haven't taken it out for anything serious yet, since I thought I might end up selling it, but having 2nd/3rd/4th thoughts (also, it doesn't help that I need to burn half a tank of fuel just to get out to do anything fun).
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  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Lots of great comments here and a bunch of very wrong ones.

    The guys who think Toyota's have no faults and other brands are much worse are just wrong.

    I had a Toyota Truck with the 22R that blew up just above 100k and I have owned a few Chevrolet products that went strong until I sold them well above 200k. Sometimes you get a faulty motor, some vehicles do have lower build quality from the factory and some motors are just not as good as others.

    When you consider Chevy, Ford and Dodge, the full size trucks are their true "halo" vehicles and thus are built the best and have the best reliability of what they make. I currently own 2 GM products, both have LS motors in them. The LS is one of the most stout and reliable platforms GM has ever made after the 5.7l 350ci v8's.

    I am not really afraid of the 2 engine choices Ford is offering, neither are brand new in their line-up. I also don't think they are going to have a ton of new model woes, that sort of thing is not too common these days.

    As much as I want one of these new Bronco's, I own my Silverado. I have 180k miles on it and everything is solid. I had a gear fail in the Transmission recently, but at 180k being the first issue is not something I would call poor build quality. The motor is the 4.8L LS small block and is all original. I have replaced the starter and did have a weird issue with the Power Steering when I first purchased it back at 86k, I picked up the used car warranty and got it all covered by that. Otherwise just consumables.

    I want to make it a bit more trail capable, but have no intention of any extreme rock crawling, it is a big rig, but I was the only one attempting this "gatekeeper" at a 4x4 area a Lake Silverwood near Big Bear, CA. It was only Jeeps and a single Land Cruiser Series 80 that made it up this hill. I liked that I was unique.


    I only have 30 inch tires and a 2 inch Leveling kit up front and I did not air down. I got a little hung up on the frame due to the hump I was trying to clear, but I think I can fit some 33's on the truck with minimal trimming. Tires will be my next upgrade and I will go with an aggressive off-road tread as this truck does not need to be driven much.

    Wish List if i had the cash now:
    * Front and rear Lockers
    * 4 inch Lift
    * Baja style front bumper to give better approach angle

    I tried to get up this rock section, but with the tires being street tread and approaching end of life and no lockers I was spinning 2 tires.
    I had 32.9" BFG's at the time of this pic, they brought my gas mileage down to Toyota levels. On top of the farm in WV here:


    Same here, mine's been paid off for years and still gets 21mpg for a v8 4x4.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-img_19649.jpg  


  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    As with Klurejr, I'm super satisfied with my 6.0 LS/LQ in my 2000 Suburban 3/4t 4WD. Dead reliable and now with 176K mi. is still in very good shape. My wife keeps telling me it's time to replace it but I can't imagine what I would replace it with. It's been paid for for years and the new ones are over $70k and not available in a 3/4 ton platform any more. I tow everything with this, so I want the 3/4t. I want overkill with my towing capacity as much as I can.
    We have a 2012 Suburban with the 5.3l, it is the LTZ trim and has air bags which is really nice for towing our 23" travel trailer. I really wanted the 6.2L but my wife hated the looks of those year GMC's (denali has the 6.2) and the Escalade (also have the 6.2) felt a bit much, so I compromised and got the 5.3. For the trailer we have it does fine. I was looking at older burbans with the 6.0 but they were all too old to be financed.

    I am really interested in the 2021 Burbans getting the inline 6 diesel. seems like it would be the perfect Suburban, good MPG's from the Diesel with high torque for towing in the sub 10k space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    My Tacoma with Crawl Control and locker does pretty well on steep stuff. I can't seem to post the video clip of it though.
    Upload it to youtube or vimeo and then share the link. there is no way to upload a video to MTBR, just pics.
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  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    I had 32.9" BFG's at the time of this pic, they brought my gas mileage down to Toyota levels. On top of the farm in WV here:


    Same here, mine's been paid off for years and still gets 21mpg for a v8 4x4.

    Did they rub up front? you have the 5.3 or the 4.8?
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  174. #174
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    Klure, who said Toyotas were faultless? I don't see anybody in this thread that said that. If you find any vehicle that is faultless please let me know, I’ll be first in line to buy it. No such vehicle exists. I had a 2004 Silverado for a year or so. Good vehicle, just too big for my needs. Full size trucks are not the best for 4-wheeling. They do good in open country but get them in tight situations and technical situations and their long and wide wheel base hinders them. A short and narrow wheel base will out crawl it every time. I love the styling of Chevy and GMC full size trucks. Dodge and Ford not so much in the styling department, great trucks though. I like the old Ford trucks, never been a fan of any Dodge styling in all years of their trucks. All are great vehicle for their intended purpose. Hauling large loads / towing / construction and farm trucks. They make nice looking mall crawlers as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Did they rub up front? you have the 5.3 or the 4.8?
    They rubbed slightly when they were brand new, but that was it.

    5.3L, I've seen that it gets better MPG than the 4.8 or 4.3

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Klure, who said Toyotas were faultless?
    Maybe not directly, but they certainly implied that Toyota's are automatically more reliable and better than anything else:

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    4-Runner all the way, screw Ford.
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^ditto.

    I like to keep my vehicles forever if possible.
    toyota is the shallowest money pit in that regard
    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Agreed.
    While I actually do like what I'm seeing with the new Bronco, I won't be trading my TRD PRO in anytime soon.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Coal Crakcer and 127.0.0.1 both were replying to John Kuhls comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    While I think this new Bronco is a pretty cool rig, I can't really see myself ever moving away from Toyota.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Same here, so happy with my Tacoma the only vehicle I’ve “seriously” thought about replacing it with was another Tacoma or a 4-Runner.
    Funny - even you implied toyota was better than other brands.

    Quote Originally Posted by j102 View Post
    Same here. Happy with my Tacoma. I have no plans to replace it any time soon, and when I do, it will probably be another Tacoma or a 4Runner.
    But I admit, the Bronco looks good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamu8104 View Post
    The Bronco looks fun and I’d chose it over a new Jeep 10 times out of 10 but I don’t trust long term durability of a new Ford versus Toyota.

    I happen to really like Toyota trucks. In fact I happen to like lots of different brands of trucks n cars. In the end, especially when off-roading, reliability comes down to ownership and abuse, not to brand.
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  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    They rubbed slightly when they were brand new, but that was it.

    5.3L, I've seen that it gets better MPG than the 4.8 or 4.3
    The 4.8L in my 2007 Silverado gets like 14-15 at best on the freeway, 11-12 city. It has never gotten good mileage.

    My 2012 Suburban with the 5.3 can get 16-17, sometimes 18 on the freeway if I have a light foot. I am pretty sure my suburban is heavier than my silverado.
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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    Is the Bronco getting the aluminum body?
    Doors, and Hood. The rest of the body is steel.
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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Lots of great comments here and a bunch of very wrong ones.

    The guys who think Toyota's have no faults and other brands are much worse are just wrong.

    I had a Toyota Truck with the 22R that blew up just above 100k and I have owned a few Chevrolet products that went strong until I sold them well above 200k. Sometimes you get a faulty motor, some vehicles do have lower build quality from the factory and some motors are just not as good as others.

    When you consider Chevy, Ford and Dodge, the full size trucks are their true "halo" vehicles and thus are built the best and have the best reliability of what they make. I currently own 2 GM products, both have LS motors in them. The LS is one of the most stout and reliable platforms GM has ever made after the 5.7l 350ci v8's.

    I am not really afraid of the 2 engine choices Ford is offering, neither are brand new in their line-up. I also don't think they are going to have a ton of new model woes, that sort of thing is not too common these days.

    As much as I want one of these new Bronco's, I own my Silverado. I have 180k miles on it and everything is solid. I had a gear fail in the Transmission recently, but at 180k being the first issue is not something I would call poor build quality. The motor is the 4.8L LS small block and is all original. I have replaced the starter and did have a weird issue with the Power Steering when I first purchased it back at 86k, I picked up the used car warranty and got it all covered by that. Otherwise just consumables.

    I want to make it a bit more trail capable, but have no intention of any extreme rock crawling, it is a big rig, but I was the only one attempting this "gatekeeper" at a 4x4 area a Lake Silverwood near Big Bear, CA. It was only Jeeps and a single Land Cruiser Series 80 that made it up this hill. I liked that I was unique.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I only have 30 inch tires and a 2 inch Leveling kit up front and I did not air down. I got a little hung up on the frame due to the hump I was trying to clear, but I think I can fit some 33's on the truck with minimal trimming. Tires will be my next upgrade and I will go with an aggressive off-road tread as this truck does not need to be driven much.

    Wish List if i had the cash now:
    * Front and rear Lockers
    * 4 inch Lift
    * Baja style front bumper to give better approach angle

    I tried to get up this rock section, but with the tires being street tread and approaching end of life and no lockers I was spinning 2 tires.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That looks like Pilot Rock, possibly Cleghorn. The only Gatekeeper I know of up here is up out of Deep Creek up the dry waterfall to Dishpan Springs on up to Crab Flats*. I was up at Pilot Rock last night checking out the comet. I took the easy goarounds though because I was by myself and it's where I rolled my Jeep.

    This is an incredible DH run in reverse from CF to the bridge at Deep Creek and I have to laugh while I blow by the motos on my bike
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  180. #180
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    Don’t really agree with you here. Abuse obviously plays a role but dependability records show some brands are more dependable than others.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Maybe not directly, but they certainly implied that Toyota's are automatically more reliable and better than anything else:







    Coal Crakcer and 127.0.0.1 both were replying to John Kuhls comment.





    Funny - even you implied toyota was better than other brands.






    I happen to really like Toyota trucks. In fact I happen to like lots of different brands of trucks n cars. In the end, especially when off-roading, reliability comes down to ownership and abuse, not to brand.
    While I did write that I really like my Toyota, I don't think I inferred that it's better than other brands. Better for me is all.

    I try not to extend my experiences to other people. Not that I always succeed..
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    That looks like Pilot Rock, possibly Cleghorn. The only Gatekeeper I know of up here is up out of Deep Creek up the dry waterfall to Dishpan Springs. I was up at Pilot Rock last night checking out the comet. I took the easy goarounds though because I was by myself and it's where I rolled my Jeep.
    Correct, Pilot Rock. I think I said Lake Silverwood area, but yes this is the gate keeper about 200-300 yards from the desert side entrance. I was able to get past this and made it a long way up that ridge before I hit a point where I was sliding around too much to climb it so I went back down and scooted the fire road up. But I was able to clear a few of the other "hard" trails. There was a guy in our group with a 90's Bronco and everytime I cleaned something in my Chevy, he felt obligated to try it in his ford. We had a really good time, the jeeps in our group were obviously way more capable than our trucks, but I think we both had plenty of fun. I think with bigger tires and lockers I will be able to do pretty much everything I want to do out on the trail with my truck.

    Here is my buddies jeep, it is a 2-door Unlimited with a few mods.....



    Here is the Bronco getting in some action:



    Brothers from different mothers:



    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Don’t really agree with you here. Abuse obviously plays a role but dependability records show some brands are more dependable than others.
    I guess my personal experience tells a different story than yours...

    I have owned a number of GM products that were very reliable up to and over 100k miles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-coreys-jeep-lake-view.jpg  

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-bronco-wheeling.jpg  

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-brothers-different-mothers.jpg  

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    I was fine with an S10 for years but it was a single cab and I needed back seats for kids. There was no reason to buy a mid sized truck at the time. I bought my v8 4x4 Silverado and it hits 21mpg. A co-worker liked it but decided he needed a Toyota instead. He bought a Tacoma and gets 19mpg and it was in the shop within the first couple years three times for master cylinder problems.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenenine View Post
    I was fine with an S10 for years but it was a single cab and I needed back seats for kids. There was no reason to buy a mid sized truck at the time. I bought my v8 4x4 Silverado and it hits 21mpg. A co-worker liked it but decided he needed a Toyota instead. He bought a Tacoma and gets 19mpg and it was in the shop within the first couple years three times for master cylinder problems.
    We had a 2000 S10 Blazer 4x4. I bought it with like 60K on the clock used. Sold it with 255k. The guy who bought it was amazed at how clean it was, no major dents, carpets and headliner was perfect, etc.

    The one major thing I had to do was a transmission rebuild around 200k. That truck was solid.
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  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I guess my personal experience tells a different story than yours...

    I have owned a number of GM products that were very reliable up to and over 100k miles.
    Looks like you misunderstood what I said once again. I never had any bad experiences with domestic vehicles. I love GMC and Chevy as I said above. I’m talking about the reliably records overall.

    If I had the coin to buy a new vehicle every year or two GMC / Chevy would be on my short list but I want a vehicle to go a couple 100K. I do like the size of a Toyota not just for convenience in daily use but also in tight off roading conditions.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  186. #186
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    I ran my little 88 s10 to death. I was coming up I675 around Dayton and the needle was pegged at 85mpg when the temp light came on. Before I could get pulled off of the highway it was running rough and white smoke was pouring out. I opened the hood and started pouring water in the radiator and it was coming out of multiple holes.
    I figured the head gasket blew but when I tore the engine down it was fine but a piston had melted.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Correct, Pilot Rock. I think I said Lake Silverwood area, but yes this is the gate keeper about 200-300 yards from the desert side entrance. I was able to get past this and made it a long way up that ridge before I hit a point where I was sliding around too much to climb it so I went back down and scooted the fire road up. But I was able to clear a few of the other "hard" trails. There was a guy in our group with a 90's Bronco and everytime I cleaned something in my Chevy, he felt obligated to try it in his ford. We had a really good time, the jeeps in our group were obviously way more capable than our trucks, but I think we both had plenty of fun. I think with bigger tires and lockers I will be able to do pretty much everything I want to do out on the trail with my truck.

    Here is my buddies jeep, it is a 2-door Unlimited with a few mods.....



    Here is the Bronco getting in some action:



    Brothers from different mothers:





    I guess my personal experience tells a different story than yours...

    I have owned a number of GM products that were very reliable up to and over 100k miles.
    I'm always coming from the other direction. Tunnels to Miller Canyon to Pilot Rock then on to Cleghorn or Sugarpine Mountain which brings you back into Crestline. I love living up here.
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  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I’m talking about the reliably records overall.
    What records are those?

    I found this list interesting:

    https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study

    iSeeCars Longest-Lasting Vehicles to Reach 200k Miles
    Rank Model % of Cars Over 200k Miles
    1 Toyota Land Cruiser 15.7%
    2 Toyota Sequoia 9.2%
    3 Ford Expedition 5.2%
    4 Chevrolet Suburban 4.9%
    5 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4.2%
    6 Chevrolet Tahoe 4.1%
    7 GMC Yukon XL 4.1%
    8 Toyota 4Runner 3.9%
    9 GMC Yukon 3.2%
    10 Honda Ridgeline 3.0%
    11 Toyota Tundra 2.9%
    12 Honda Odyssey 2.7%
    13 Toyota Avalon 2.6%
    14 Lincoln Navigator 2.6%
    15 Toyota Tacoma 2.5%
    Lots of Toyota's and lots of GM products.
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  189. #189
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    We even get a real winter up here too. This is what was left of a three foot berm I smashed down.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-20191227_111714.jpg  

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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    What records are those?

    I found this list interesting:

    https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study

    iSeeCars Longest-Lasting Vehicles to Reach 200k Miles
    Rank Model % of Cars Over 200k Miles
    1 Toyota Land Cruiser 15.7%
    2 Toyota Sequoia 9.2%
    3 Ford Expedition 5.2%
    4 Chevrolet Suburban 4.9%
    5 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4.2%
    6 Chevrolet Tahoe 4.1%
    7 GMC Yukon XL 4.1%
    8 Toyota 4Runner 3.9%
    9 GMC Yukon 3.2%
    10 Honda Ridgeline 3.0%
    11 Toyota Tundra 2.9%
    12 Honda Odyssey 2.7%
    13 Toyota Avalon 2.6%
    14 Lincoln Navigator 2.6%
    15 Toyota Tacoma 2.5%
    Lots of Toyota's and lots of GM products.
    Lol
    You sure are sensitive.

    Let me get on my Google device. Nah, not with my time. Let’s get back to civilized talk. Stop arguing your damn point, ridiculous. I haven’t seen an argument like this in the OC for some time. In the General Discussion forum it’s the norm. Sensitive types over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  191. #191
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    My hubby is interested in the Base 2.7litre engine and locker hubs
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  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    My hubby is interested in the Base 2.7litre engine and locker hubs
    Thank’s Judy for getting this back on topic. Tell Chris thank you! as well. 😊
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  193. #193
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    Yeah, what was this thread about again?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I just skimmed through the links Finch put up and I've made an informed decision that will shape my future purchasing . I never want my off-roader to have any sort of "info-tainment system". Not ever.


    That's all I have to say about that.

    +1000!!!!

    Looking at Tacoma's, I sadly can not get one without that big waste of dashboard space...and not that I am going to be crawling over rocks in Moab, but I would rather that money go to engine or suspension...
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  195. #195
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    Agreed, those screens are only good for backup cameras and they don't need to take up half the dashboard! Or just put them in the rear view mirror like some cars.

    Anyone put a deposit on a Bronco? $100 and it's fully refundable if you change your mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

  196. #196
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    So this Jeep retro truck debut didn’t get you all excited?

    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-76a6b8dc-0055-475b-9bb4-9d2b9f80818e.jpg


    The Off Roading 4x4 Thread-a72ee045-0028-43d3-afed-f87c0ab06cab.jpg

    BTW - I just saw this one a few minutes ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  197. #197
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    haha, I am not sensitive, just pointing out that some peoples opinion of Toyotas as being the only reliable brand out there are not 100% accurate. ;-)


    I was really excited for the Jeep Gladiator, but once I saw them in person they just look too long....
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  198. #198
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    For an off-road pickup, the Colorado ZR-2 looks pretty awesome. I would have considered one except for the high price.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Jeep sales exploded because they had the best vehicle for the job. They drove everyone else out of the market. They exploded even more, significantly more, when they played to the soccer moms and made a 4 door. It amazingly still made for an awesome all around rig and rock crawler. As I said, it's the benchmark. That's undeniable. Every manufacturer that wants to play in this segment must compare themselves to the Wrangler. I would love a new Bronco and I'm sure I'll get one eventually but If I wanted to keep doing what I do now, I'd have to stick with the Wrangler as anything with IFS will fall short.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Ha, my Tacoma could out-wheel a Jeep* any day on any trail.











    *A Jeep Compass that is.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    haha, I am not sensitive, just pointing out that some peoples opinion of Toyotas as being the only reliable brand out there are not 100% accurate. ;-)


    I was really excited for the Jeep Gladiator, but once I saw them in person they just look too long....
    An older jeep with an inside 6 and solid axles will do better than most Toyotas. The front independent suspension is toyotas biggest problem. I personally don't like the Chrysler v6 in newer Jeeps.

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