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  1. #1
    Fart smeller
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    "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."

    Heather Heyer

  2. #2
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    Seeing a pattern here Finch
    You gotta look at the bright side. Wouldn't this be better than slowly starving to death from the lack of bees? Not to mention the money, Liberty, privacy, and environment that is being taken from us daily, behind closed doors, via executive orders
    Round and round we go

  3. #3
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Seeing a pattern here Finch
    You gotta look at the bright side. Wouldn't this be better than slowly starving to death from the lack of bees? Not to mention the money, Liberty, privacy, and environment that is being taken from us daily, behind closed doors, via executive orders
    I feel so much better.
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

  4. #4
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    We are only concerned about the USA. We are not the world police, or so I heard on yesterday's news following the Syrian gas attacks.
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  5. #5
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    Hope they hold off until after my wife's trip to Japan and China next month.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Hope they hold off until after my wife's trip to Japan and China next month.
    Trump-Xi meeting next few days could be interesting.
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  7. #7
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Trump-Xi meeting next few days could be interesting.
    Bigly
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Bigly
    Who Ever Said 2017 Would Be A Dull Year?
    Gerald Celente: “At the Trends Research Institute, we observe three worlds of influence that drive trends up or bring them down: The media world, the political world and the real world.
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  9. #9
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Scary
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  10. #10
    Log off and go ride!
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    Too scary to stay home watching the news. Time to go for a ride.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  11. #11
    Meatbomb
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    I turned the news off years ago... too much miss information. It's like wrestling.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Too scary to stay home watching the news. Time to go for a ride.
    +1 ... Setting up my tank today so just a run at the Rose garden then adding water + plumbing today on tap. It's getting pretty exciting now ... all the way around eh?
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  13. #13
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    A little blown out of proportion I think!

    North Korea test-fires missile into sea ahead of Trump-Xi summit | Reuters

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles...
    "It spun out of control after going only a fraction of its range," the official said.

    ...

    North Korea could choose to continue with missile-related activities through next week, when the isolated and impoverished country celebrates the 105th anniversary of the birth of the state's founder, Kim Il Sung.

    It has used the anniversary in previous years to test-fire the intermediate-range Musudan ballistic missile and to launch long-range rockets to try to put satellites into orbit.

    An expert on the North's political strategy warned against reading too much political significance into the timing of the tests ahead of the U.S-China summit.
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Jeebus.
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  16. #16
    Yeah!
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    China has overfished their waters, and are intruding upon other nations. I don't see anything but escalation on their part in coming years.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  17. #17
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    China is like the Borg.
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

  18. #18
    Straight out tha traila
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

  19. #19
    Maaaaan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    China has overfished their waters, and are intruding upon other nations. I don't see anything but escalation on their part in coming years.
    Same with the U.S. and Japan. I was watching something about Somalia and found out several major powers had fished out the waters off of their coast, which is at least partly why they are committing piracy to survive.
    Communist Party Member Since 1917.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    Same with the U.S. and Japan. I was watching something about Somalia and found out several major powers had fished out the waters off of their coast, which is at least partly why they are committing piracy to survive.
    Not surprising the way they rape the oceans.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneTheJeep View Post
    *Retch*
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    Heather Heyer

  22. #22
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    That's great, it starts with an earthquake
    Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    Same with the U.S. and Japan. I was watching something about Somalia and found out several major powers had fished out the waters off of their coast, which is at least partly why they are committing piracy to survive.
    Yeah, but...

    China consumed 33.6million tons of the 107million tons for human consumption in 2005 (31.4%)

    At 9.8%, North AND Central America (Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Belize, Mexico, United States, Canada) consumed less than a third as much as China (29%) - 2011 Stats


    US: 311.7 million souls x 21.7kg per capita = 3.38m tons. 15.3% of China.

    Japan: 127.8 million souls x 53.8kg per capita = 3.44m tons. 15.6% of China.

    China: 1.344 billion souls x 32.8kg per capita = 22.04m tons.

    More importantly, the US has a quota system that has results in recovery of previously devastated fisheries. China... they are supposed to introduce ecosystem protections in their next five year plan, but that may be nothing more than instructing their fleets to fish the hell out of everyone else's waters.

    As for Somalia, the biggest transgressors on their waters are their neighbors. They also appear to prefer pirate life over fixing their government. Can't have much sympathy for them when 70% of their coastal population supports the kidnappers, extortionists, thieves and executioners that 'protect their waters'.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  24. #24
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    Just corporate criminals
    Playin' with tanks

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    China is like the Borg.
    Actually, have you been to China? Pretty much like the USA now, but with more people and more money.

    The West raped the world for 100's of years, exterminated tons of animals including human races, so why can't the east get in on the fun?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Just corporate criminals
    Playin' with tanks
    They'd all been warned
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Actually, have you been to China? Pretty much like the USA now, but with more people and more money.

    The West raped the world for 100's of years, exterminated tons of animals including human races, so why can't the east get in on the fun?
    Oh, the East has not been left out:

    Pol Pot

    The combined effects of executions, strenuous working conditions, malnutrition and poor medical care caused the deaths of approximately 25 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1 to 3 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) perished as a result of the policies of his four-year premiership.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Oh, the East has not been left out:

    Pol Pot

    The combined effects of executions, strenuous working conditions, malnutrition and poor medical care caused the deaths of approximately 25 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1 to 3 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) perished as a result of the policies of his four-year premiership.
    Killing yourself does not count. If it did, the Chinese would be up there with close to 50 million dead thanks to the cultural revolution. We are talking about wrecking havic on someone else. Like North Korea dropping a big old nuke on Japan.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Actually, have you been to China? Pretty much like the USA now, but with more people and more money.

    The West raped the world for 100's of years, exterminated tons of animals including human races, so why can't the east get in on the fun?
    China is nothing like the USA. Culturally it tries to be, that's where it ends.

    Anything can happen when you're dealing with a crazy, and it's anybody's guess but N Korea would not attack Japan. Unless it wants to lose its pretty much only allie. For China it's all about maintaining control over the rich region of Manchuria. If China lost that control it would collapse. Any excuse for Japan or any other country, including the USA to come over and encroach would be seen as instigated by n Korea if it attacked someone else, and China would decimate n Korea in a second. Not to mention how China would suffer financially, forgetting about Manchuria, if n Korea nuked a major export country of China's. Think it's more likely that China would nuke n Korea, un provoked, to avoid all these possibilities
    Round and round we go

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The West raped the world for 100's of years, exterminated tons of animals including human races, so why can't the east get in on the fun?
    You comment sounds like western nations have taken what they wanted for hundreds of years, all else be damned. That's not quite how history has gone down. Might not have been fair for some parties involved, but most of what we've 'raped' from other countries was done so through trade that was approved by both parties involved, slavery included.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Killing yourself does not count. If it did, the Chinese would be up there with close to 50 million dead thanks to the cultural revolution. We are talking about wrecking havic on someone else. Like North Korea dropping a big old nuke on Japan.
    Or the rape of Nanjing.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  32. #32
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    And Tibet, Doolittle, the coffin king, boxer rebellion, prince sado, and on and on
    Round and round we go

  33. #33
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    I heard there was a beautiful chocolate cake. Sounds like it's going to be A-OK.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    You comment sounds like western nations have taken what they wanted for hundreds of years, all else be damned. That's not quite how history has gone down. Might not have been fair for some parties involved, but most of what we've 'raped' from other countries was done so through trade that was approved by both parties involved, slavery included.
    So, the rest of the world willingly and gladly gives up its oil reserves to enable the US to consume far more than its fair share, importing roughly half the oil it consumes through the largest trade deficit in the world, and these countries do this all in return for the "opportunity" to be receive freshly printed US dollars that they will never actually spend?

    Or might it instead have something to do with either 1) the fear of being "liberated" by western militaries should said countries not bow down and serve the US trade deficit (an example would be Saudi Arabia), or 2) said countries having been previously "liberated" from their supposed tyrannical dictators, to be replaced with freshly inserted western puppet governments for the purpose of facilitating the continued rape and pillage of those countries' natural resources for export into the USA. An example would be Libya. The only reason Libya suddenly lit up the media propaganda airwaves a few years ago was because it refused to trade dollars for oil and instead wanted to set up a gold-based African dinar currency -- good luck with that. Gaddafi was in power for decades but then all of a sudden the global media at the drop of a hat decided he was a dangerous dictator that had to be removed... Shortly after the western invasion, Libya was liberated of its sovereign gold holdings...

    As they say, history is written by the victors, and western anglo-saxon countries have largely been the victors for most of the last century or two. The tide is now turning.
    All I am saying is give pizza chants

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    You comment sounds like western nations have taken what they wanted for hundreds of years, all else be damned. That's not quite how history has gone down. Might not have been fair for some parties involved, but most of what we've 'raped' from other countries was done so through trade that was approved by both parties involved, slavery included.
    Like the Indian sub-continant willingly gave itself to the Portuguese? Like the native peoples of the America's willingly gave themselves to Spain, France, England, etc? That was a great trade deal.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Like the Indian sub-continant willingly gave itself to the Portuguese? Like the native peoples of the America's willingly gave themselves to Spain, France, England, etc? That was a great trade deal.
    There's examples like this all over the world, throughout history. Don't be ridiculous.
    Round and round we go

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
    So, the rest of the world willingly and gladly gives up its oil reserves to enable the US to consume far more than its fair share, importing roughly half the oil it consumes through the largest trade deficit in the world, and these countries do this all in return for the "opportunity" to be receive freshly printed US dollars that they will never actually spend?

    Or might it instead have something to do with either 1) the fear of being "liberated" by western militaries should said countries not bow down and serve the US trade deficit (an example would be Saudi Arabia), or 2) said countries having been previously "liberated" from their supposed tyrannical dictators, to be replaced with freshly inserted western puppet governments for the purpose of facilitating the continued rape and pillage of those countries' natural resources for export into the USA. An example would be Libya. The only reason Libya suddenly lit up the media propaganda airwaves a few years ago was because it refused to trade dollars for oil and instead wanted to set up a gold-based African dinar currency -- good luck with that. Gaddafi was in power for decades but then all of a sudden the global media at the drop of a hat decided he was a dangerous dictator that had to be removed... Shortly after the western invasion, Libya was liberated of its sovereign gold holdings...

    As they say, history is written by the victors, and western anglo-saxon countries have largely been the victors for most of the last century or two. The tide is now turning.
    Hahaha. You're looking for tide to turn in a dessert.
    In the last coupla years oil reserves have been found all over the place. Some of them huge. Texas, Alaska, Arctic, Russia, and on and on. Tillerson sec of state a surprise? Not. Who better than the Exxon mogal to reverse the sanctions that were put in place days after the largest oil reserve in modern history was found. A conservative estimate for that oil reserve alone is 500 billion. Days after it was found, sanctions? Tillerson appointment? Coincidences? Lol.
    The tides that're turning, that you should be building your ark for, are there's a lot more oil than the "experts" could have even imagined only a few short years ago. Coupled with better efficiency and alt sources of energy becoming more available. And a world with leaders that are becoming so greedy and blatant about their abuse, coupled with the Information Age where ppl around the globe are much more informed.
    Round and round we go

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Hahaha. You're looking for tide to turn in a dessert.
    In the last coupla years oil reserves have been found all over the place. Some of them huge. Texas, Alaska, Arctic, Russia, and on and on. Tillerson sec of state a surprise? Not. Who better than the Exxon mogal to reverse the sanctions that days after the largest oil reserve in modern history was found. A conservative estimate for that oil reserve alone is 500 billion. Days after it was found, sanctions? Tillerson appointment? Coincidences? Lol.
    The tides that're turning, that you should be building your ark for, are there's a lot more oil than the "experts" could have even imagined only a few short years ago. Coupled with better efficiency and alt sources of energy becoming more available. And a world with leaders that are becoming so greedy and blatant about their abuse, coupled with the Information Age where ppl around the globe are much more informed.
    But is all that you read on the internet true? Just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    But is all that you read on the internet true? Just saying.
    No. The internet gives any and every butt head a platform. And a corporately corrupt media blurs the lines even more. That's only part of the Information Age. Would hope ppl become smart enough to sift thou the bs and form their own opinion, the more obvious the tide of what's obviously becoming more clear becomes.
    Round and round we go

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    No. The internet gives any and every butt head a platform. And a corporately corrupt media blurs the lines even more. That's only part of the Information Age. Would hope ppl become smart enough to sift thou the bs and form their own opinion, the more obvious the tide of what's obviously becoming more clear becomes.
    One would hope people would sift through the bs from truth but the lines are so blurred it's hard telling what's truth and what's not anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    One would hope people would sift through the bs from truth but the lines are so blurred it's hard telling what's truth and what's not anymore.
    Yep, seems everyone has their own agenda and very difficult to tell what's really true.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    One would hope people would sift through the bs from truth but the lines are so blurred it's hard telling what's truth and what's not anymore.
    Indeed it is hard but not impossible. At least not yet. Our data sources, which ever side right or left, just play to their audience naturally. These days to get to the truth, one has to put some effort in and have a little patience too. Which is very difficult for most people in this era of instant gratification.

  43. #43
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    The situation with N. Korea is starting to look rather dicey.

    I don't know that I can do much of anything about it though. Except maybe move away from the PacNW.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Hahaha. You're looking for tide to turn in a dessert.
    Mmmm dessert...
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Like the Indian sub-continant willingly gave itself to the Portuguese? Like the native peoples of the America's willingly gave themselves to Spain, France, England, etc? That was a great trade deal.
    Native American tribes were warring on each other, seizing territory and resources, enslaving their enemies, raping captured women, committing genocide, et al when Europe was still in the stone age. The largest empire in the history of the world was the Mongol, the second largest was the Byzantine. The western Europeans certainly have no monopoly on conquest, in fact Europe was the latecomers to the game and paled in comparison to others before them.

    Your bigotry and ignorance of history has deluded your belief system.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  46. #46
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    What are we doing here, out trumping each other on how we've come to a point in humanity where we can destroy the planet some 41 times over with just our arsenal alone?

    May I point out there has always been and continues to be indigenous cultures, religions, and societies that are non warring who coexist with their environment and neighbors in harmony. Let us not forget compassion, empathy, and love is very much part of the human experience. Go spread some around.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  47. #47
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    Think you're missing something whalenar. Just a bunch of guys here trying to expand the ideas of others. If we didn't care we wouldn't spend the time or effort trying to explain. It's one of the "loves" we roll with here in the oc.

    Great post Dave
    Round and round we go

  48. #48
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    As am I, and that's NARD.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  49. #49
    Maaaaan
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    Communist Party Member Since 1917.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Native American tribes were warring on each other, seizing territory and resources, enslaving their enemies, raping captured women, committing genocide, et al when Europe was still in the stone age. The largest empire in the history of the world was the Mongol, the second largest was the Byzantine. The western Europeans certainly have no monopoly on conquest, in fact Europe was the latecomers to the game and paled in comparison to others before them.

    Your bigotry and ignorance of history has deluded your belief system.
    Add to that, yes, middle eastern nations are selling us oil and taking our money, and they can sit on it or burn it in trashpiles, doesn't matter. They are bowing down to the US? Is that what is meant when they remove oil from the market to raise the price to profitable levels for themselves? Is that why some of the richest per capita nations are in the middle east?

    Sounds like it's time for the peak oil conspirators to join in the conversation.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  51. #51
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    Speaking as a peak oil conspirator, I say you can all go fuk yerselves!
    It's all Here. Now.

  52. #52
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    Big weekend for the French

    And maybe for Europe and one step beyond? ... That is all!
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    4/23/17 Watch this one in France today

    Quote from a recent article from Andy Hoffman of Miles Franklin ... Either way, the near-term fate of the European Union; the “Troika” that must “bail out” Greece this summer; and the Euro currency itself lies in the balance. And if France ignores its “last chance” for economic and cultural survival, the ramifications for one of history’s oldest, proudest nations will be catastrophic. - A. Hoffman ... Enjoy your Sunday everyone!
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    Wow ... Political earthquake has struck in France. Status quo once again ... gots to go!Emmanuel Macron wins first round | Daily Mail Online
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    Sounds like it's time for the peak oil conspirators to join in the conversation.
    I'm no peak oil conspirator but know enough about what others say and try to pay attention. Peak oil is a concept, which is very accurate at times, and sometimes not simply because all the future variables cannot be foreseen. It's not a conspiracy, althou many have tried to turned it into one. By twisting it up into how Mega moneys get together, buy a bunch to drive up the price, and then sells when they do so. Ahh yeah, um, no shit Sherlock. There's easy ways to curb this, like simply making them pay in full at time of purchase, and physically take hold of what they purchase. But that would protect the everyday consumer, and take away from easy money through market manipulation for those financially powerful enough to be in on this.
    Another easy fix. Wanna stop low educated illegal immigration? Easy. Inact and enforce a stiff fine, real stiff, to any company, for each illegal it hires. Instead of sending these poor souls back to their hell hole, and making the everyday Joe foot the bill through taxes.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Wow ... Political earthquake has struck in France. Status quo once again ... gots to go!Emmanuel Macron wins first round | Daily Mail Online
    Wow, indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I turned the news off years ago... too much miss information. It's like wrestling.
    yup, you can get more accurate news watching Desperate House Wives than some of the media outlets.
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    "Now I'm here by myself, uh, talking to myself. That, that's chaos theory."
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    France ... May 7th runoff

    We don't have long to wait ... 13 days. Choose to bring your balls back to France or continue to let Brussels fumble with them. It's one or the other! Frexit or you'll be sorry! -AR ... Opinions and commentary from AR does not necessarily reflect the opinion of MTBR Off Camber or almost anyone on this website.
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    Stock market off and running with the possibilities
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Native American tribes were warring on each other, seizing territory and resources, enslaving their enemies, raping captured women, committing genocide, et al when Europe was still in the stone age. The largest empire in the history of the world was the Mongol, the second largest was the Byzantine. The western Europeans certainly have no monopoly on conquest, in fact Europe was the latecomers to the game and paled in comparison to others before t

    Your bigotry and ignorance of history has deluded your belief system.
    And the stone age was a place of peace and prosperity? And the records of what happened in North America are weak at best but of course, they were not all peace loving people. But to paint over Europe's impact - in a negative way in the world- is delusional as well.

    The mongol empire, as we all know, spanned the largest area of any area but I would argue that they, like the Eastern and Western Romain empires did more good that harm.

    The European conquest of the America's and Asia lead to how many deaths. How many native people of the america's were killed off? How many people on the Indian sub-containant? How many people in Africa? The 100's or thousands that the native people of the America's committed? Please. Honestly, what the British and Dutch and Spanish did makes the Germans look like choir boys.

    I think the West needs to realize how much of an impact -in a negative way it has had and much of this is a consequence of the end of the empires of the 20th century.

    I think Western Europe is at a cross roads. If you remember (if you are old enough) when the cold war ended, there was a strong belief that European nationalism would take hold again and lead to conflict. The EU in many ways held that at bay. With the end of the EU coming, I think we will see that rise again.

    Honestly, I would say that your bigotry and ignorance of history has deluded your belief system.

    ps. my original point is why can't China fck up thing up when others have already fck things up pretty bad. They have a right as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    I'm no peak oil conspirator but know enough about what others say and try to pay attention. Peak oil is a concept, which is very accurate at times, and sometimes not simply because all the future variables cannot be foreseen. It's not a conspiracy, althou many have tried to turned it into one. By twisting it up into how Mega moneys get together, buy a bunch to drive up the price, and then sells when they do so. Ahh yeah, um, no shit Sherlock. There's easy ways to curb this, like simply making them pay in full at time of purchase, and physically take hold of what they purchase. But that would protect the everyday consumer, and take away from easy money through market manipulation for those financially powerful enough to be in on this.
    Contrary to popular belief, oil is actually a finite resource. The thing is, once you reach the point where it takes more energy to extract the oil from a reservoir than you get in return energy, then it becomes uneconomical and that oil stays in the ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    And the stone age was a place of peace and prosperity? And the records of what happened in North America are weak at best but of course, they were not all peace loving people. But to paint over Europe's impact - in a negative way in the world- is delusional as well.

    The mongol empire, as we all know, spanned the largest area of any area but I would argue that they, like the Eastern and Western Romain empires did more good that harm.

    The European conquest of the America's and Asia lead to how many deaths. How many native people of the america's were killed off? How many people on the Indian sub-containant? How many people in Africa? The 100's or thousands that the native people of the America's committed? Please. Honestly, what the British and Dutch and Spanish did makes the Germans look like choir boys.

    I think the West needs to realize how much of an impact -in a negative way it has had and much of this is a consequence of the end of the empires of the 20th century.

    I think Western Europe is at a cross roads. If you remember (if you are old enough) when the cold war ended, there was a strong belief that European nationalism would take hold again and lead to conflict. The EU in many ways held that at bay. With the end of the EU coming, I think we will see that rise again.

    Honestly, I would say that your bigotry and ignorance of history has deluded your belief system.

    ps. my original point is why can't China fck up thing up when others have already fck things up pretty bad. They have a right as well.
    The eu didn't hold things at bay. Conflict in Western Europe, don't be silly. Not going to happen. It's called progress, or if you're eyes are open, modern times. You know, easy access with fast and easy transportation and communications. Sure, nations will compete, ppl will complain and make drama, like you are, but conflict? That's just ridiculous, with or without the euro. Too much to loose, and too hi a standard of living for conflict. As an example Russia has about a quarter of the economy that France has.

    Not that long ago the earth was looked at as so vast with endless recourses. Now we know better. We also, as a race, now strive for a level of equal human rights, more and more, and in more and more places. Sure we have a long way to go but you shouldn't promote going backwards. You must be smarter than that? To give China a pass to act selfishly is barbaric
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post

    ps. my original point is why can't China fck up thing up when others have already fck things up pretty bad. They have a right as well.



    People have the right to be stupid too. They usually abuse that right also. How's that working out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, oil is actually a finite resource. The thing is, once you reach the point where it takes more energy to extract the oil from a reservoir than you get in return energy, then it becomes uneconomical and that oil stays in the ground.
    Yeah, don't think oil being infinite resource is a popular belief any more. But over the last coupla years there's a lot more gettable oil discovered than most would have guessed. Doubtful that will translate into cheaper at the pumps, but don't see oil going up to $100 a barrel again, without a major disruption by way of war or nature, or both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, oil is actually a finite resource. The thing is, once you reach the point where it takes more energy to extract the oil from a reservoir than you get in return energy, then it becomes uneconomical and that oil stays in the ground.
    You, and theMeat, seem to have missed the word 'conspiracy' in my statement. I may have tossed out some sarcasm, but did not broad-stroke it.

    I can't ever agree with the statement that oil being a finite resource is not a common belief. Many people do not know where oil comes from, many more do not know how much oil there is available to us, and even more do not know how long it will last. This is ignorance, not illogic. Depending upon how you word the question, you can easily get most people to say something that can be construed to mean they don't believe oil is a finite commodity, and the first thing that runs through my mind evertime I see the results of a poll or survey is "What were the questions?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    You, and theMeat, seem to have missed the word 'conspiracy' in my statement. I may have tossed out some sarcasm, but did not broad-stroke it.

    I can't ever agree with the statement that oil being a finite resource is not a common belief. Many people do not know where oil comes from, many more do not know how much oil there is available to us, and even more do not know how long it will last. This is ignorance, not illogic. Depending upon how you word the question, you can easily get most people to say something that can be construed to mean they don't believe oil is a finite commodity, and the first thing that runs through my mind evertime I see the results of a poll or survey is "What were the questions?"
    Not really sure what you're trying to say. Even addressed your so called conspiracy in my post. Also can't agree that most ppl are that dumb. Peak oil concept has been around since the 50s. It's not a conspiracy, unless you talk to ppl like Alex jones. You can't mix up suppression of societies into the peak oil concept and have a valid argument. No more than you can say that oil being manipulated and restricted for profit is a conspiracy. It's not, it's just the way it is. Peak oil is based on oil being a finite resource. So do you believe oil is finite, or that peak oil is a conspiracy? It's one or the other. While I see tremendous fault in peak oil as a given, the golden rule, simply because it cannot predict the future, it's basis is sound.
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    Didn't we already meet Hubbert's peak in 2004 despite new finds and new technology of extraction?

    Oil is not going to tank civilization, climate change vs population is. The middle east mess is bigger than oil and geopolitics. The migrations and warring factions are reactionary as is the political shift in Europe. What I'm sure most people do not grasp is the same seeds of unrest have already taken root here. Water rights are already at the boiling point in many reagons. The bread basket is undeniably shifting north. We have HUGE sections of forest with standing dead timber, and others with 110 years of unburnt fuel. Despite being on the precipice of our own food shortages we will most likely see mass migration as well. Politics reflect the decline and distraction is very evective.
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    Cavemen survived an ice age. We will survive it getting a lil warmer for a while. As a matter of history, it's the other way round.

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    Looks like I didn't do all my homework on the France deal. It will be huge if Macron loses but Michael Krieger thinks this may happen ... I continue to think that it won’t be France, but more likely Italy, which will put the final nail in the EU coffin. As always, we shall see.- M. Krieger ... Tweet Michael Krieger @LibertyBlitz
    Macron is like the fiat money of politicians.
    Created out of thin air to help bankers steal everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Looks like I didn't do all my homework on the France deal. It will be huge if Macron loses but Michael Krieger thinks this may happen ... I continue to think that it won’t be France, but more likely Italy, which will put the final nail in the EU coffin.- M. Krieger ... Tweet Michael Krieger @LibertyBlitz
    Macron is like the fiat money of politicians.
    Created out of thin air to help bankers steal everything.
    1:26 PM - 24 Apr 2017
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    I don't trust any person or group with the name "Liberty _____". Or "Patriot ____". On either side of the aisle. They are usually for anything but that word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I don't trust any person or group with the name "Liberty _____". Or "Patriot ____". On either side of the aisle. They are usually for anything but that word.

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    There are plenty of vocal scientists, economists, politicians, business insiders etc, that have read the proverbial tea leaves with consistent accuracy over the last 50 to 60 years. The illusion of complication is all the other noise.
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    All of this talk reminds me of being a teenager in the early 80's during the cold war with Russia. There was this impending doom of our nation going up in flames in a nuclear holocaust.

    And it was a genuine fear of mine, particularly growing up near an army depot that housed a nuclear arsenal. We'd talk about simply walking outside if there was a launch because we'd rather get incinerated rather immediately versus possibly surviving an attack.
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    Might be time for Ozzy to do a reboot of "Crazy Train".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    People have the right to be stupid too. They usually abuse that right also. How's that working out?
    Boy that was witty even for a fopdoodle. You have anything useful to add?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Boy that was witty even for a fopdoodle. You have anything useful to add?
    Thought it was genius. Short, well worded, and got right to the point
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    There are plenty of vocal scientists, economists, politicians, business insiders etc, that have read the proverbial tea leaves with consistent accuracy over the last 50 to 60 years. The illusion of complication is all the other noise.
    Now this is witty
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    You, and theMeat, seem to have missed the word 'conspiracy' in my statement. I may have tossed out some sarcasm, but did not broad-stroke it.

    I can't ever agree with the statement that oil being a finite resource is not a common belief. Many people do not know where oil comes from, many more do not know how much oil there is available to us, and even more do not know how long it will last. This is ignorance, not illogic. Depending upon how you word the question, you can easily get most people to say something that can be construed to mean they don't believe oil is a finite commodity, and the first thing that runs through my mind evertime I see the results of a poll or survey is "What were the questions?"
    I don't mean surveys or polls. I mean people's actions indicate to me that they believe that oil is an infinite resource based upon their profligate consumption of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    All of this talk reminds me of being a teenager in the early 80's during the cold war with Russia. There was this impending doom of our nation going up in flames in a nuclear holocaust.

    And it was a genuine fear of mine, particularly growing up near an army depot that housed a nuclear arsenal. We'd talk about simply walking outside if there was a launch because we'd rather get incinerated rather immediately versus possibly surviving an attack.
    Same here. I grew up close enough to the Bangor, WA Trident sub base to get the USSR's interest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Cavemen survived an ice age. We will survive it getting a lil warmer for a while. As a matter of history, it's the other way round.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I tend to agree. People will survive a warmer world. The current industrial civilization probably not though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I tend to agree. People will survive a warmer world. The current industrial civilization probably not though.
    One of the more interesting things I learned during my military service:

    Stunning amount of correlation between land cover change (mostly desertification) and terrorism.

    Not existing deserts, but once semi-fertile, arable lands that, through either increased temperatures or decreased precipitation, or both, became useless.

    If the current food shortage in Africa persists, things will be getting more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I don't mean surveys or polls. I mean people's actions indicate to me that they believe that oil is an infinite resource based upon their profligate consumption of it.

    No, humans in general are selfish. Most live for today and could give a crap about future generations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the more interesting things I learned during my military service:

    Stunning amount of correlation between land cover change (mostly desertification) and terrorism.

    Not existing deserts, but once semi-fertile, arable lands that, through either increased temperatures or decreased precipitation, or both, became useless.

    If the current food shortage in Africa persists, things will be getting more interesting.

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    That's something I always say but people ignore. Ecological degradation is directly related to conflict. If resources are abundant, there's less to fight about.
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    I remember flying from Texas over Mexico on my way to Puerto Villarta. It was depressing looking out of the plane at thousands of acres of farmland that had turned into desert.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Scary
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    That's something I always say but people ignore. Ecological degradation is directly related to conflict. If resources are abundant, there's less to fight about.
    Yep.

    People can choose to believe in global warming, global weather change, or not.

    But, if I showed them Landsat scene of sub-Saharan Africa, one from the 90s and one from July 2016, could they honestly tell me, "No, that desert isn't 40% larger than it was 20 years ago."?

    I mean, it's a god damn picture, from space.

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    Just as shocking is the reduced footprint of the Amazon. There is growing evidence of the correlation between the shrinking Amazon and the growing Sahara as well as max temps. An interesting factor in the Arab spring was the droughts in the Russian bread basket. 20 million (likely a much higher figure) "undocumented" South American refugees escaping violence and poverty in the US, just wait untill people can't feed themselves.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I remember flying from Texas over Mexico on my way to Puerto Villarta. It was depressing looking out of the plane at thousands of acres of farmland that had turned into desert.
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yep.

    People can choose to believe in global warming, global weather change, or not.

    But, if I showed them Landsat scene of sub-Saharan Africa, one from the 90s and one from July 2016, could they honestly tell me, "No, that desert isn't 40% larger than it was 20 years ago."?

    I mean, it's a god damn picture, from space.

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    Nothing that hasn't happened before. Way before any man made c02 was supposedly going to take over the weather. Just a few years ago everyone and their mother was screaming perma-drought in Texas. Now they're not even in a drought. As a matter of fact the us as a whole is at an all time record low for drought, since the us drought monitor was established. Tornadoes have been on the decline since the mid 70s. Hurricanes below ace index for decades. The pdo and amo flipped to cool phase, and solar activity at lowest level since mini ice age. Weather will change. Always has, always will.
    Round and round we go

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    Some of the professors in my department do work with crop statistics, in conjunction with data collected by satellite-borne remote sensing instruments. MODIS, Landsat, etc. Incorporate some NEXRAD weather data as well.

    Ask some questions, do some science, make some conclusions.

    The corn and wheat belts are moving.

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    Yup, and all over England remnants of wine growing in the past, which now mostly takes place in France
    Round and round we go

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Nothing that hasn't happened before. Way before any man made c02 was supposedly going to take over the weather. Just a few years ago everyone and their mother was screaming perma-drought in Texas. Now they're not even in a drought. As a matter of fact the us as a whole is at an all time record low for drought, since the us drought monitor was established. Tornadoes have been on the decline since the mid 70s. Hurricanes below ace index for decades. The pdo and amo flipped to cool phase, and solar activity at lowest level since mini ice age. Weather will change. Always has, always will.
    Yeah.

    I'm not going to bring up global warming again because it's a touchy subject.

    The point I was trying to make is that Africa has the fastest growing population, and is the continent mostly likely to be impacted by desertification. Again, the causes of it are irrelevant to me, unless people want to talk about solutions. Tens of millions of people starving (to death) is a hotbed for terrorist recruitment.

    Al Shabab doesn't care if it's hot or cold. Hunger is a weapon that has been wielded for thousands of years. That's very real.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yep.

    People can choose to believe in global warming, global weather change, or not.

    But, if I showed them Landsat scene of sub-Saharan Africa, one from the 90s and one from July 2016, could they honestly tell me, "No, that desert isn't 40% larger than it was 20 years ago."?

    I mean, it's a god damn picture, from space.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    But honestly, that is not from any global temperature change but rather from poor land management. But I agree, it makes the point of what can happen. Pictures are worth a 1000 words, but sometimes they are not what they seem. Here on the South East coast, people often show how land is not being lost but rather expanding. However, the truth is that they used the marsh areas between the land and the sea as trash fills and just built on top of the trash dump. Instant land. Global warming seems to be hard to understand (the Global part) for most people let alone the cause of it.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Cavemen survived an ice age. We will survive it getting a lil warmer for a while. As a matter of history, it's the other way round.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice source of data.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  98. #98
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    There's many sources. Ice core, etc. it's called history. C02 and temps have been higher, and higher for longer many times in our past. The solar cycles, ice age cycles, and many other variables that are completely out of our control, and not completely understood should be ignored and suppressed. We should ignore all that and believe our sacred untainted science that is always right and has a subject it couldn't possibly have figured out. The debate is over, I get it. Now when a hurricane happens we can can blame ourselves. We can stand on mountain tops that are covered with sea floor fossils from way before humans walked the planet, and look at our changing landscape and take all the credit and blame for it. Pretty puzzling how most who post up in here live in climate controlled boxes, have all the creature comforts. Including expensive means of recreation like bikes, and trails to ride them on. Sit around and contemplate how bad things are, with little to no faith, and worry about and think they're smart enough to figure it all out and know how it will end. If there's anything I've learned in my years it's that most people , especially in this country, think way too much of themselves and their importance. And that with all we think we know we know nothing
    Round and round we go

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    There's many sources. Ice core, etc. it's called history. C02 and temps have been higher, and higher for longer many times in our past. The solar cycles, ice age cycles, and many other variables that are completely out of our control, and not completely understood should be ignored and suppressed. We should ignore all that and believe our sacred untainted science that is always right and has a subject it couldn't possibly have figured out. The debate is over, I get it. Now when a hurricane happens we can can blame ourselves. We can stand on mountain tops that are covered with sea floor fossils from way before humans walked the planet, and look at our changing landscape and take all the credit and blame for it. Pretty puzzling how most who post up in here live in climate controlled boxes, have all the creature comforts. Including expensive means of recreation like bikes, and trails to ride them on. Sit around and contemplate how bad things are, with little to no faith, and worry about and think they're smart enough to figure it all out and know how it will end. If there's anything I've learned in my years it's that most people , especially in this country, think way too much of themselves and their importance. And that with all we think we know we know nothing

    Just wondering, do you think the earth's global temperature has risen over the last 100-200 years?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Just wondering, do you think the earth's global temperature has risen over the last 100-200 years?
    Has been rising for about 130 years. Not a fact denier. You can't just look at a snapshot of climate because it fits your argument. And I don't mean "you" personally.
    Round and round we go

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Has been rising for about 130 years. Not a fact denier. You can't just look at a snapshot of climate because it fits your argument. And I don't mean "you" personally.
    I would agree with that. I thought the whole global warming argument was about rate and not the actual number. With that said, do you believe that the rate is greater than any period (in the last million years or so)?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  102. #102
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    You can't blame me for global warming - I bike to work, even during the winter. Although, I have to admit I'm somewhat skeptical since we had snowfall just a few days ago at the end of April!!

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I would agree with that. I thought the whole global warming argument was about rate and not the actual number. With that said, do you believe that the rate is greater than any period (in the last million years or so)?
    No.

    Nice knowing you-image.gif

    Will also say that any info past around 10,000 years gets sketchy. We can tell about how hi Or low, and about how fast, but it's a guesstimate. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deceiving you.

    Nice knowing you-image.gif

    This second one shows Greenland ice core data. It's not the best representation of the whole planet, but for now it's the best we got.
    You can see where we came out of the last ice age, around 11, 12 thousand years ago. Then if you look at the top pic, you can see the Milankovitch cycle in full swing. Repeating itself over and over.
    Last edited by theMeat; 05-03-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    Round and round we go

  104. #104
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    Woah one of my favorite old video games is coming true! Just change the names of some countries here and there.

    EXCLUSIVE - Congressional Expert: North Korea Prepping EMP Catastrophe Aimed At U.S. Homefront

    Well at least the ebike controversy will be over

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

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