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  1. #1
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    Is Nationalism Cool?

    Background: I'm a 22 year old white male. I grew up middle-class. There were plenty of things I wanted, but nothing I needed. I have friends who went into the military and I respect that, but it isnt the path for me. I am sometimes critical of America, but I like it as a whole.

    The question: Why is it when I watch international races (mountain or road), it is so inspiring to see countries come out to support riders? The Belgians are proud to be from Belgium. I have a friend from South Africa that boasts about how great his country is. My Australian friend proclaims superiority over the British. You see colorful flags and a whole lot of spirit. However, in the United States, a flag decoration can seem...tacky. Why is there a negative connotation for American nationalism?

    I wont pick a side, but I will say that I wish American flag colors were better...

    I would like to hear some thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jnthomps08 View Post
    Background: I'm a 22 year old white male. I grew up middle-class. There were plenty of things I wanted, but nothing I needed. I have friends who went into the military and I respect that, but it isnt the path for me. I am sometimes critical of America, but I like it as a whole.

    The question: Why is it when I watch international races (mountain or road), it is so inspiring to see countries come out to support riders? The Belgians are proud to be from Belgium. I have a friend from South Africa that boasts about how great his country is. My Australian friend proclaims superiority over the British. You see colorful flags and a whole lot of spirit. However, in the United States, a flag decoration can seem...tacky. Why is there a negative connotation for American nationalism?

    I wont pick a side, but I will say that I wish American flag colors were better...

    I would like to hear some thoughts.
    The French and American flag are the same color but you see tons of red white and blue during the TDF.

    Mostly I think it is because america prides itself through it national sports and really, every 4 years notwithstanding, doesn't weigh its participation in the international sporting arena as important. In our own country we have all levels of sporting events that are strictly american so we stand behind that. One of the benefits of such a large population I guess.

    But when the olympics roll around the old glory is rolled out in all its glory, draped around victors on the track, waving in stands and generally being used like you say. I guess we like a world stage to play to which is also understandable being the exhibitionists that we are.
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    On a day to day basis americans don't care about international sports. It's only big events where we do well that we care

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    On a day to day basis americans don't care about international sports. It's only big events where we do well that we care
    Why'd it take me half of Moby Dick to say what you said in the ingredients for milk? Damn I am blabby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    Rockcrusher, you just gotta learn that brevity is wi...
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    Rockcrusher, you just gotta learn that brevity is wi...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
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  7. #7
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    Because society has taut us that America
    is to big, greedy and self absorbed. We stick our Flag
    in where it doesn't belong. Maybe we should remind others
    of this when the next natural disaster hit's, or genocide comes from a Ruler.
    I happen to love my Country!!!!
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  8. #8
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    Actually, I think it's because almost all of the sports that most people in the US care about, most of the best athletes end up playing here anyway... at least with the big 4 sports: baseball, football (not futbol), basketball, and hockey.

    I would think those 4 sports (and Nascar ) would account for the majority of sports viewership in the U.S. It's not so much about Country X vs. Country Y here; it's Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh and half the players on some teams are foreign-born anyway.

    Case in point: the World Cup. All over the world people go crazy. In the U.S., not a single f**k was given that day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikebmx999 View Post
    Are we just ignoring balls? Lol

  9. #9
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    National pride is here, but there are more local identities to parts of the country. From the deep south to college towns. SEC football is a good example of local pride just like you would see on the streets of the TDF. Watch a boxing event too and you will see pride.

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    For the world cup, there are pockets of people who care. I know guys who follow all the major international tournaments. I don't have that much time to follow all of it that much, but I will catch team USA whenever I can no matter what tournament they're in but some folks follow individual players as much as possible and that can get crazy with club sides and national matches and offseason loans and all.

    I will occasionally watch cycling of all sorts and I always root for the Americans...but decking out in national colors for tv watching is meh. If I got to watch a race in person, it might be worth it. And that might be a major factor...watching in person.

  11. #11
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    USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!


    I've observed that most US of A'ers only cheer for individuals or teams that are favored to win.

    Watch the puzzled Americans ask "where's the US team" when the soccer brackets are shown for London. I'd bet money that most don't know the teams have to qualify for the Olympics and I'll bet half the ones who do couldn't tell you the country we played in the last qualifying match. Though maybe Ollie North might be able to.
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  12. #12
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    As a veteran, I have experience in other countries as well. While they are frequently beautiful, and there is a certain 'atmosphere' about them, the USA is home.

    I'm not a knee-jerk, flag-waving nut; I DO object to the flag being misused, and I am alarmed at some of the things I see in my country. I guess you could say my patriotism is 'quieter'.

    There are things I'd change, but by and large, I don't see anywhere else I'd rather live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jnthomps08 View Post
    Background: I'm a 22 year old white male. I grew up middle-class. There were plenty of things I wanted, but nothing I needed. I have friends who went into the military and I respect that, but it isnt the path for me. I am sometimes critical of America, but I like it as a whole.

    The question: Why is it when I watch international races (mountain or road), it is so inspiring to see countries come out to support riders? The Belgians are proud to be from Belgium. I have a friend from South Africa that boasts about how great his country is. My Australian friend proclaims superiority over the British. You see colorful flags and a whole lot of spirit. However, in the United States, a flag decoration can seem...tacky. Why is there a negative connotation for American nationalism?

    I wont pick a side, but I will say that I wish American flag colors were better...

    I would like to hear some thoughts.
    We live in a great country. Sure we started out with some birth defects, but as a country we are always striving to be better.

    No country is perfect, but I think we have a lot to be proud of - more than most. And at the end of the day, this is our country - we only have one. So why not be proud of it?
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  14. #14
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    No, I don't care about the neg rep for Loving my Country,
    what bothers me is apparently someone on here doesn't
    love this country, as they put in the comment"Wrong".
    Hi, spineless P.O.S., why don't you give me a name so we
    can talk about it. You can put it in a private message, and i will
    happily respond to it. Otherwise, move some where else.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler View Post
    As a veteran, I have experience in other countries as well. While they are frequently beautiful, and there is a certain 'atmosphere' about them, the USA is home.

    I'm not a knee-jerk, flag-waving nut; I DO object to the flag being misused, and I am alarmed at some of the things I see in my country. I guess you could say my patriotism is 'quieter'.

    There are things I'd change, but by and large, I don't see anywhere else I'd rather live.
    I agree, patriotism is not about the size of your belt buckle.

  16. #16
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    I'm serbian but live in canada so I can give you an outsiders perspective.

    Its because your countries foreign policies are atrocious and your state is riddled with idiots. You let fear mongers rule your entire state. If I was to ask the average american why they dont support universal health care im sure a vast majority of the responses would argue 'because its socialist'. And then if you ask whats wrong with socialism they'll give you some idiotic response like "hitler was a socialist!". These also happen to be the ones who scream USA USA and wave the American flag around, which in turn gives the perception that all nationalistic americans are idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    I'm serbian but live in canada so I can give you an outsiders perspective.

    Its because your countries foreign policies are atrocious and your state is riddled with idiots. You let fear mongers rule your entire state. If I was to ask the average american why they dont support universal health care im sure a vast majority of the responses would argue 'because its socialist'. And then if you ask whats wrong with socialism they'll give you some idiotic response like "hitler was a socialist!". These also happen to be the ones who scream USA USA and wave the American flag around, which in turn gives the perception that all nationalistic americans are idiots.

    negative rep **** storm in 5, 4, 3, 2....
    Actually, I agree with you. A better question to ask those type of folks though would be what is Socialism?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    I'm serbian but live in canada so I can give you an outsiders perspective.

    Its because your countries foreign policies are atrocious and your state is riddled with idiots. You let fear mongers rule your entire state. If I was to ask the average american why they dont support universal health care im sure a vast majority of the responses would argue 'because its socialist'. And then if you ask whats wrong with socialism they'll give you some idiotic response like "hitler was a socialist!". These also happen to be the ones who scream USA USA and wave the American flag around, which in turn gives the perception that all nationalistic americans are idiots.

    negative rep **** storm in 5, 4, 3, 2....



    Painting with broad brush strokes aren't you? Who's the idiot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Painting with broad brush strokes aren't you? Who's the idiot?
    I think it's an apt generalization about the rabid flag waving folks in our country. They're the ones who get the most media time and as a consequence are how we seem to other countries. Understand little other forms of organization, support our big bussiness/brother government unwaveringly and demean those who--through questioning the governments motives and allegiances--would be, in my eyes, the more patriotic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Painting with broad brush strokes aren't you? Who's the idiot?
    Whose the idiot? Not sure, but if I had to guess it would be the kid who blindly supports his government. I remember having a 'discussion' with you not long ago on gun rights so i'll just leave this here. Read up on us public policy vs public opinion (monroe, burstein, burstein and lipton, manza and cook, streff and waganaar, etc.) before you jump to the defence of your government.
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  21. #21
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    The US really is an outlier when you look at relationships between rampant nationalism and progressive culture in industrialized nations.

    Most countries develop openness and tolerance with the forces of industrialization and modernization, here in the US we just continue thinking that we're better than everyone else.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Painting with broad brush strokes aren't you? Who's the idiot?
    I think he nailed it. More often than not 'Mericans lack an understanding of their own political structure and assume that if it's different it's bad.

    Last week I was having a conversation with an acquaintance about taxation. To oversimplify the conversation, he's against it, I'm for it. I think he was trying to "win" more than I was but he nodded his head and quit when I said "I'll never understand why people complain about being taxed one minute, then the next minute they complain about how the Fed, State, County and City services are lacking."

    He got it right away. Being in a "civilized" country has costs. Whether it's the water from your tap or the roads you use, taxes paid for them. IMHO other services should be covered by the state as well, and if it means increased taxes on those who can afford them, do it. That's the cost of being "civilized."

    Anyway, I'm not looking for an argument. If your opinion is different, good for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
    I think he nailed it. More often than not 'Mericans lack an understanding of their own political structure and assume that if it's different it's bad.

    Last week I was having a conversation with an acquaintance about taxation. To oversimplify the conversation, he's against it, I'm for it. I think he was trying to "win" more than I was but he nodded his head and quit when I said "I'll never understand why people complain about being taxed one minute, then the next minute they complain about how the Fed, State, County and City services are lacking."

    He got it right away. Being in a "civilized" country has costs. Whether it's the water from your tap or the roads you use, taxes paid for them. IMHO other services should be covered by the state as well, and if it means increased taxes on those who can afford them, do it. That's the cost of being "civilized."

    Anyway, I'm not looking for an argument. If your opinion is different, good for you.


    Sorry but half the people in this country are free loaders and do not pay taxes at the federal level. When everyone pays taxes, then they can ***** about things, until then...............

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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Sorry but half the people in this country are free loaders and do not pay taxes at the federal level. When everyone pays taxes, then they can ***** about things, until then...............
    Read my first post and answer 'what is socialism'. I have a feeling your repsons will mention Hitler...

    EDIT:

    You are:
    a) caucasian
    b) male
    c) in your 40's
    d) lacking a post-secondary education
    e) watch fox news
    d) all of the above
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    read my first post and answer 'what is socialism'. I have a feeling your repsons will mention hitler... seriously? What a tool.

    edit:

    You are:
    A) caucasian no.
    b) male yep.
    c) in your 40's nope.
    d) lacking a post-secondary education sorry to dissapoint.
    e) watch fox news wrong again, starting to see a trend.
    d) all of the above
    fail.

  26. #26
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    Year started riding: 1963...

    What university/college did you attend, at what level and what major?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Sorry but half the people in this country are free loaders and do not pay taxes at the federal level.
    They (a) don't pay or they (b) don't have enough income to qualify to pay ? The flaw in your statement is that you claim people avoid paying taxes. With the exception of tax evaders (Al Capone or people getting paid cash for their "work" for example) everyone pays taxes. Your employer takes it from your gross wages before the check is given to you. There's a threshold at which the State and Federal taxes are refunded. Everyone earning above that threshold gets taxed accordingly and it's my position that the more you earn, the more you should be taxed.

    I'm not even going to touch the "half the people" part.
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  28. #28
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    hmmm, I see where this discussion is going and I think it's well on its way to the bin. It's probably unrecoverable at this point. To be honest, I'm surprised it lasted this long.

    I just wish for just one second that everyone would be willing to admit that they don't know how every part of the government works, that they don't know what the best answer is on every issue, and that they don't know the best way to solve every problem. Because nobody does. No American knows everything about our system of government, let alone how those of other nations. No foreigner knows everything about their own system of government, let alone ours.

    The media is full of $hit. ALL of the media is full of $hit. That's only made worse by all of the amateur political bloggers who pretend that they're real professionals who know what they're talking about. It seems to me an awful lot of political arguments could be solved if people acknowledged this and admitted that they're just regurgitating what they heard on CNN or Fox News or MSNBC or read on The Guardian or the NYT or the Washington Post or USA Today or whatever.

    then, we could get down to the fact that most of the rest of the things people argue about are OPINIONS where there is no one right answer. The vitriol that is put out there on this stuff is just DISGUSTING. If we actually sat down and tried to FIX the problems we see instead of what actually happens, things would ACTUALLY get better. But no, it's more about My Side vs. Your Side and which side gets to record a "win" for pushing a lopsided policy through.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    I'm serbian but live in canada so I can give you an outsiders perspective.

    Its because your countries foreign policies are atrocious and your state is riddled with idiots. You let fear mongers rule your entire state. If I was to ask the average american why they dont support universal health care im sure a vast majority of the responses would argue 'because its socialist'. And then if you ask whats wrong with socialism they'll give you some idiotic response like "hitler was a socialist!". These also happen to be the ones who scream USA USA and wave the American flag around, which in turn gives the perception that all nationalistic americans are idiots.

    negative rep **** storm in 5, 4, 3, 2....
    Do I agree with my government/NO
    Do I agree with it's Foreign Policy/NO
    Do I have a Secondary Education/YES
    Do I, as an idiotic American, send funds during any
    crisis that affect's other countries besides my own/YES
    And last but not least , do I love my country, and do
    I love the freedoms I have, to go from State to State whenever
    the whim strikes, do I feel safe here from outside forces,
    do I love being able to talk to my fellow citizen's openly
    on this forum,as well as others from different countries,
    am I upset with the current state this country is in, but at
    the same time would I fight to the end for this land and my
    fellow American's/ YES
    You don't like it ,don't come to America, stay where the hell
    your at.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    Year started riding: 1963...

    What university/college did you attend, at what level and what major?
    You sir are a complete MORON. Einstein, Edison, Trump and etc. Never went to college, guess they are all idiots? College is a just a piece of paper you get when the college takes all of your money leaving you with more bills then you can pay back.

    You are a complete retard to think only smart people go to college.

    You know why Americans don't wave the flag around? It is because we know we are the best at everything and do not need to pump ourselves up. It is like the Honda Civic lining up next to the Corvette. The Corvette driver does not need to beat it, he already knows he can. At anytime the USA can destroy any other country in the world without any retaliation. People all over the world want to live here because that is where the best are.

  31. #31
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    i see....

    thread went all 'politicrazy-you're-a-dummy-if-you-don't-see-the-world-as-i-do'...

    i'm just gonna close this thread before i start distributing infractions like parade candy





    PS - starting another on a similar topic to continue 'i'm right and you're an idiot' argument i will be sending peeps to corner...


    * yes, i am in a foul mood because I missed the mtbr user party because my ^&#%$ kids gave me some gnarly bug and i'm still ****ing sick as a dog *

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