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  1. #1
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    med school or somethin else

    im premed as of now, but recently have been thinking about going dental or PA. what are your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Go PA, or NP. Still very high pay, less liability, more mobility... less school (and debt). I think the future of medicine is going to rely on NP's and PA's. Its a very, very good career route right now.

  3. #3
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    If you are concerned about money then MD. My bro in law is a ophthalmologist surgeon, and a partner at a clinic, makes $6 million a year. BUT has to work 6 Days A Week.

    My other bro in law is a MD, gastroenterologist surgeon makes $1.5 million a year, works 6 days a week. Also a partner at a smaller clinic.

    My high school bud is a dentist makes only $500k a year, but works 5 days a week.

    Thats if you like money, if you are more into work a PA or NP is a good gig but later in life when you want your kids to attend a nice college you may be strapped for cash. Good luck on your decision.

    BTW--my bro in law the gastroenterologist is a hero to me, a friend of mine had colon cancer
    in the early stages and removed all of the cancer. He's been cancer free for 7 years

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    My high school bud is a dentist makes only $500k a year, but works 5 days a week.
    Yeah, I wouldn't waste my time working at a job if I only made $500k a year.

    For what it's worth, a friend of mine is a dentist. My wife works at his office doing billing and insurance and assisting as needed. She has seen many of the financial reports. He makes a lot more than $500k a year. The practice (he owns it) brings in around 5mil a year. I don't know what it costs to run a small family practice with two doctors and 5 hygienists, but I'm pretty sure it's not $4.5m a year. Looking at his life style and work schedule, I'd say dentist all the way.
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  5. #5
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    just a word of warning, I'm not entirely sure how much this affects MD's, but there's a lot of talk these days about there being too many people with advanced degrees. there's a bunch of lawyers suing law schools over misrepresentation of their prospects and job market. many law grads take jobs outside the industry because there are not enough law jobs available. when your ability to pay back loans is contingent upon your ability to land a job with a certain pay scale, that's a problem.

    My wife is a veterinarian and the same sort of thing is going on in her industry. There's no lawsuit out there, but the amount of student loan debt new grads are winding up with can be astronomical. There are a lot of veterinary jobs still available, but many of them are at rural clinics that offer insufficient pay to cover student loan bills in addition to expenses. The higher paying specialty jobs and city positions are harder to get.

    And I recently saw an article about a similar phenomenon occuring in "science" in general (PhD stuff). There's talk that schools are graduating too many PhD's to fill the available positions. This is my industry, and I will be graduating soon with my master's. I'm going to have to get creative about a job afterward. It looks like I will have to create one for myself.

    So, if you're considering going MD or dentistry, look at the industry prospects for what you want to do. Make an educated decision, because these are details that the graduate programs will not tell you (this is where the lawyer lawsuit is based).

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    If I could start over again I would get a biomedical engineering degree.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't waste my time working at a job if I only made $500k a year. ....
    Tell me about it. How can anyone live on such meager earnings?

  8. #8
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    Nate's wife's gig is pretty good too money-wise because most ppl don't have insurance for their pets
    ,
    and the ones who really love their fur babies pay out of pocket, So there's no lull over payments from medical insurance companies. I'm trying to get my niece (who's dad makes 6 mil a year) to get into VM.

    BTW---15 years ago my wife and I stayed at her sister's apt (the eye surgeon). in Fresno CA when he first started practicing medicine and left his paychecks on a plastic shelf by the kitchen sink. I glanced over at a stub....he was making $27,000 take home a month! Egads.

  9. #9
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    I'm a chemistry major but was pre-med. I decided against medical school because I've learned the cold hard reality of it and have also taken a great interest into chemistry. But I'm an EMT and love dealing with crazy medical stuff. It's my passion and what I love. GSWs, MVCs, MIs, respiratory failure, etc gets my heart pumping and I love being in that situation. I'm wired for it and I'm great at it. But I won't be a doctor because it isn't worth it to me.

    PA is a great option but you have a limited scope of practice (which I can't stand). Though PAs get to do a ton of stuff, when it comes time to crack a chest to massage the heart, it's going to be a MD/DO who is doing it and that will bug me to no end.

    If you must go into medicine then being a doctor is the way to go like it or not. PAs make great money but a doctor can make more in the long run. Also you have an unlimited scope of practice and can go anywhere in the world and work. I think PA is mainly an American thing and you won't be recognized overseas. I worked in a hospital in Abu Dhabi and the doctors (mostly British, Australian, etc) didn't know what a PA was.

    I myself love chemistry and decided to get my paramedic once out of school and do that part time for fun. Best of luck to you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Nate's wife's gig is pretty good too money-wise because most ppl don't have insurance for their pets
    ,
    and the ones who really love their fur babies pay out of pocket, So there's no lull over payments from medical insurance companies. I'm trying to get my niece (who's dad makes 6 mil a year) to get into VM.

    BTW---15 years ago my wife and I stayed at her sister's apt (the eye surgeon). in Fresno CA when he first started practicing medicine and left his paychecks on a plastic shelf by the kitchen sink. I glanced over at a stub....he was making $27,000 take home a month! Egads.
    it's not as lucrative as many would have you believe. she does it because she enjoys working with pets. we're reasonably comfortable, but hardly rolling in dough like many of the salaries listed, even the $500k dentist salary.

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    as far as job prospects go, from what i have read there is a big shortage on doctors, and as an MD or DO i don't think job security would be too much to worry about in the majority of specialities. dentists on the other hand are very oversaturated in cities and desirable places to live. MD/DO's are always going to be more competitive than law school or PhDs, just because there isn't as many of them and the nature of the work. if a school is pumping out crappy lawyers it isn't going to be as bad as if schools are pumping out crappy doctors.

    the shortage of doctors also plays in to the viability of going PA or NP though. i have heard many people say that they will be taking a lot of the work in the future and there will be a need for more of them.

    i think i would really enjoy doing either right now, and would rather be making some money before i'm 30, but from what i understand they pretty much peak out salary wise around 125k (still an awesome salary, but compared to a physician not the greatest).

    then again my grades are good enough to get into DO, dental and probably MD as well. I get a lot of financial support from my parents for school, but i would still have some debt at the end of it all.

    a lot of dentists seem to work 4 days a week, which is something i would really like, and the hours a lot of MD's pull is not something i'm interested in. if i do go to med school i would shoot for a more low key specialty: psych, PM&R, anesthesia, i'd love to radiation oncology, but i doubt i'll pull the grades for it.

    anybody a PA and have input? i'm probably going to shadow this weekend so i can ask people there as well.

    thanks for all the advice.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haligan78 View Post
    If I could start over again I would get a biomedical engineering degree.
    what are you doing now?

    my school (VCU) has a BME program and a lot of the kids in my classes are in it. it doesn't really appeal to me much, and most of them really just want to go to med school anyways. what makes you think that would be a good thing to study?

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    If you want to help people and like knowing stuff in more depth, shoot for the MD. If you want cash, look elsewhere. Salaries mentioned above are waaaaaay above the average for almost all specialties. Pediatrics would get you 80 to maybe 150 k, depending on where u live. Orthopedics maybe up to 500 to 600k on average, but they work like 80 plus hr weeks.

    I did med school and then radiology (really long road with 4 yrs med school, 1 yr internship, 4 yrs residency with 3 massive separate boards exams, and 1 yr fellowship. Just finishing my first real yr of post training work, and I turn 36 in July. That said, I really like my job.

    Med school is tough, but just pace yourself and keep doing something you love. PA and NPs are awesome, but I'd you want a more global understanding of things and more autonomy, do MD or DO.

    Mind you, a lot of this stuff could change with healthcare reform. I'm actually in favor of the changes, for the most part, since the system was unsustainable as was. Just my 2 pence.

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    The pendulum will swing - there are many forces that are moving the market more towards alternative medicine.

    I'd go that direction. There are lots of things that western medicine cannot fix (cough pain cough) and alternative medicine is a viable alternative.

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    are you sure you don't want a lucrative career in art history?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    it's not as lucrative as many would have you believe. she does it because she enjoys working with pets. we're reasonably comfortable, but hardly rolling in dough like many of the salaries listed, even the $500k dentist salary.
    Tell that to my vet as he's swimming in his indoor olympic sized pool that's tucked away in the basement of his mansion...yeah, seriously. But then again, it pays to be the only game in town.

    But for those that did the work and made the commitment, good on you. I couldn't do it. I'll just stick with my respiratory therapy degree. If I wasn't such a mathtard and even worse at chemistry, I'd try to continue school to become a perfusionist...the average salary of $180k isn't too shabby around my parts.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Tell that to my vet as he's swimming in his indoor olympic sized pool that's tucked away in the basement of his mansion...yeah, seriously. But then again, it pays to be the only game in town.

    But for those that did the work and made the commitment, good on you. I couldn't do it. I'll just stick with my respiratory therapy degree. If I wasn't such a mathtard and even worse at chemistry, I'd try to continue school to become a perfusionist...the average salary of $180k isn't too shabby around my parts.
    there's a possibility for money, but the majority of veterinarians don't get there. If you're willing to own a clinic and invest in high quality patient care and make sure the other doctors working for you do the same, that's a possibility. If you're willing to go into a high demand specialty, that's a possibility.

    If you're like my wife who has only a desire to practice quality general medicine, but not deal with any of the various issues surrounding clinic ownership (much like any business owner), then your prospects are much more modest.

    But to be fair, she does do well enough that even though we do need any income I bring in, I don't have to be super choosy about how much I make. I can afford to earn less, but enjoy my work.

  18. #18
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    Yeah, the biggest thing with my vet is that for many years (he's been in practice like 30 years) he was the only vet in the area and he owns his own practice and it's just him, an assistant, and a front desk person. He also does farm animals. So for him, he's super busy but raking in mad cash. For everyone else, the downside is, just to get in for a visit you're looking at up to a month wait or even longer and I am sure the quality of care isn't super great. I've only been to him for new pet check ups, shots, and the very occasional sick pet.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Yeah, the biggest thing with my vet is that for many years (he's been in practice like 30 years) he was the only vet in the area and he owns his own practice and it's just him, an assistant, and a front desk person. He also does farm animals. So for him, he's super busy but raking in mad cash. For everyone else, the downside is, just to get in for a visit you're looking at up to a month wait or even longer and I am sure the quality of care isn't super great. I've only been to him for new pet check ups, shots, and the very occasional sick pet.
    No wonder. He is an older vet. Bet his debt load was less than 20k when he graduated. Everage debt load for a new vet in 2012 was 140k. AVERAGE. Some exceed 250k. It takes a very high paying first job to be able to afford those kinds of loan payments on top of regular living expenses. Avg starting salary is somewhere in the 60k neighborhood.

    My debt load when I finished undergrad was 25k. I have not added anything to that while earning my master's because I have been earning paychecks that cover my school bills.

  20. #20
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    If you like science and medicine, then look at biostatistics. There is a shortage and the work is very rewarding. There are published salary ranges on www.amstat.org, but starting salaries with PhD will be ~100k. Max is around 200k. One advantage is that the demand is so high, even in grad school, that most students don't have to pay for education expenses.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    If you like science and medicine, then look at biostatistics. There is a shortage and the work is very rewarding. There are published salary ranges on www.amstat.org, but starting salaries with PhD will be ~100k. Max is around 200k. One advantage is that the demand is so high, even in grad school, that most students don't have to pay for education expenses.
    I can't imagine why. A lot of people absolutely hate stats. I don't hate stats but I began learning them late so I find them difficult.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsam84 View Post
    ...but they work like 80 plus hr weeks.

    I did med school and then radiology (really long road with 4 yrs med school, 1 yr internship, 4 yrs residency with 3 massive separate boards exams, and 1 yr fellowship. Just finishing my first real yr of post training work, and I turn 36 in July. That said, I really like my job.
    ,,,
    Gee, no one ever thinks of that when they think of a doctor. Nor do they think of the $500k+ in loans plus interest they have to pay off. And of course they never think of being pulled from their house at 3am to go into a 12+ hour surgery. I also bet these same people have never watched a kid die and being powerless to do anything about it. I still remember the first kid I watched die.

    I was pre-med but starting school at 26 I decided I didn't want to be 150 years old before I started making money. I much prefer to stay with chemistry and work in the private sector making real money.

    But as you said, you can't beat the job because medicine to me is the best field in the world to be in.

  23. #23
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    Not really useful but

    Study in an area that lets you work in the "mining industry" then come and work in Australia. It was good enough for a young Geologist called Herbert Hoover

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    only $500k a year
    poor guy, where can i send donations?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecsokak View Post
    im premed as of now, but recently have been thinking about going dental or PA. what are your thoughts?

    Before you decide:

    PANDA BEAR, MD

    Going to medical school was a good financial decision for me. I'm in a well-paid specialty (Emergency Medicine) and make between $650,000-$700,000 a year for working around 18 12-hour shifts a month. I have no overhead and I get ten job offers a week.

    The student loan debt isn't that bad. I went to a public university medical school and my entire debt was $110,000. Nothing, really. I pay $500 a month to service that. (But I has to borrow as a resident which most people don't have to do so I pay more)

    You won't make that much money working in places like San Francisco or Indianapolis where everybody wants to live but if you don't mind moving you can do very well.

    On the other hand the training sucked and cost me everything in life.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Before you decide:

    PANDA BEAR, MD

    Going to medical school was a good financial decision for me. I'm in a well-paid specialty (Emergency Medicine) and make between $650,000-$700,000 a year for working around 18 12-hour shifts a month. I have no overhead and I get ten job offers a week.

    The student loan debt isn't that bad. I went to a public university medical school and my entire debt was $110,000. Nothing, really. I pay $500 a month to service that. (But I has to borrow as a resident which most people don't have to do so I pay more)

    You won't make that much money working in places like San Francisco or Indianapolis where everybody wants to live but if you don't mind moving you can do very well.

    On the other hand the training sucked and cost me everything in life.
    I find this interesting that you put Indianapolis in the same sentence with San Francisco and "where everybody wants to live". I know Indy has decent hospitals, but is there something I don't know about how desirable it is for doctors?

  27. #27
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    well i would say you might get to work on peytons neck but now he is in colorado so....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I find this interesting that you put Indianapolis in the same sentence with San Francisco and "where everybody wants to live". I know Indy has decent hospitals, but is there something I don't know about how desirable it is for doctors?
    Indianapolis is a very nice city with all the amenities of a larger city without having the enormous cost of living. Places like Indianapolis, Charlotte, Knoxville and the like are very popular with Emergency Physicians and doctors in general.

    The problem with working there is there is an over-supply of doctors so the salaries are generally lower. I live and work in rural between-bum****-Egypt-and-hell, Louisiana (but I like it just fine). Nobody wants to relocate here so they are fairly desperate for residency-trained ER doctors and will pay accordingly. I easily make twice what one of my friends from residency makes who pulled strings, begged, and schmoozed to get a job in San Francisco...and she has to drive 45 minutes to get to it and deal with the whole California toxidrome of crappy schools, high taxes, and repressive state and local governments.

  29. #29
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    As for being a NP or a PA, I agree that those are jobs with a real future. Nurse Practitioners are mostly frauds and humbugs with incredibly shoddy and minimal medical training but the public is unaware so I guess from a financial point of view it doesn't matter.

    Really, I wouldn't send my dog to a Nurse Practitioner. Generally if you have problem that can be addressed by them it probably doesn't need any medical treatment at all. In fact, the whole basis of Urgent Care (a big utilizer of Nurse Practitioners) is the over-diagnosis and over-treatment of minor illnesses that once, long go, required no medical care except for the occasional over-the-counter remedy and mostly resolve independently of any treatment.

    Heck, I work in a busy ER and I see mostly minor, self-limiting things. Indeed, the majority of American medicine is a scam and most of the money spent on it is absolutely unnecessary.

    PAs are much better trained and the schools are much harder to get into. The biggest problem with a PA is lack of knowledge and worse, a lack of awareness of the limits of their knowledge. All midlevels consequently tend to order a lot of tests with no real idea why they are doing it. Tests that are not even necessary for "CYA."

    A well-looking three-year-old with a fever and a runny nose, for example, with a normal exam otherwise and who is running happily through the ER needs no workup at all but I often see that my mid-levels have ordered a chest xray, a CBC, a CRP, a BMP, and blood cultures. Heck, they might as well do a lumbar puncture (except that test scares them because it requires more than checking a box on the order sheet).

    This is strictly because of their insecurity and lack of training.

    Besides, from a lawsuit point of view if, after your exam, you decide to send the patient home because they don't really look sick it's better to have ordered nothing than a complete workup. Suppose you ordered everything except a lumbar puncture (spinal tap, the only way to diagnose meningitis) and the patient comes back in a few days with meningitis. At your malpractice trial they'll ask why you ordered all those tests on a patient who was well enough to go home but didn't obtain a lumbar puncture.

    Far better to say, with conviction, the patient looked well, had normal vital signs, no fever, no other symptoms but a runny nose and there was no indication to do anything other than send him home for follow up as needed with his own doctor.

    If you're going to be wrong it's better to be decisively and confidently wrong than wrong in a timid, embarrassing way.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Indianapolis is a very nice city with all the amenities of a larger city without having the enormous cost of living.
    gotcha. One of the reasons I'm moving up there this summer.

    however, the wife didn't find that it was nearly as popular as west coast destinations in her industry.

  31. #31
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    F all that. Im in Sun Valley Idaho right now for nationals and Im seriously considering moving to the mountains to be a bike bum. You should see all the shop rats here. All super passionate about riding and just make their lives working on bikes and riding. Who needs cash when you have happieness and freedom?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecsokak View Post
    what are you doing now?

    my school (VCU) has a BME program and a lot of the kids in my classes are in it. it doesn't really appeal to me much, and most of them really just want to go to med school anyways. what makes you think that would be a good thing to study?
    I am a lathe operator for a large plywood manufacturing facility. Basically I work in a hot in the summer cold in the winter, dirty, dusty, noisy dungeon. It is a 60-70k a year job depending on how much overtime I work. That is a good wage for my area with the average houshold income being around 24k a year.
    I have a degree in fire science...big mistake. Very competitive industry to get into and I haven't had much luck. I was an airport firefighter but we moved to a different town.

    I have talked to the BME's at the hospital where my wife works and their job is friggin cake compared to mine. They work in a nice clean, quiet, heated, airconditioned hospital and make around the same wage I get now for way easier work.

    Here is a video I shot at work one night. I operate and maintain the lathe peeling the logs. It is powered by about 1,000 horsepower worth of hydraulic pumps and one big 390 HP DC electric motor that actually turns the logs.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcgpxS2OH8

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    You know, apropos of the discussion of lawyers and their image, many professions are still respected but they are living off of the residual respect they used to have before things got out of control. There was a time when there were fewer but higher-quality law schools and attorneys did reasonable legal work for their client.

    Now that the country is entangled in an oppressive governmental-legal-bureaucratic complex lawyers have become essentially blood-sucking enterprise and initiative-killing parasites who only enjoy what little respect they have left because the public is still largely oblivious to their depredations. The truth is that you can be pretty stupid and get into a law school somewhere and the class and caliber of people in the legal profession has fallen considerably.

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    Spot On

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    F all that. Im in Sun Valley Idaho right now for nationals and Im seriously considering moving to the mountains to be a bike bum. You should see all the shop rats here. All super passionate about riding and just make their lives working on bikes and riding. Who needs cash when you have happieness and freedom?!
    Sheepo, this post is at the heart of the matter. Life should be about enjoying. Do it!

    To the OP, if you TRULY want to go to med school and have that responsibility, then more power to you but if you are driven by the salary, alleged prestige and lifestyle in any way you will have problems.

    I loved science and would have loved to have been a scientist in the 1600s to 1800s when observation and thought gave results. I did a chem undergrad and cell biology PhD. Labs today are publication machines so they can get funding so they can get more publications (the majority of which are absolute crap). Kits and mass production rule rather than elegant experiments that truly answer scientific questions. The same goes academic hospital research labs.

    Now I left the bench and work for a pharmaceutical company in clinical research - why? That is where the easy money and benefits are. I am only doing this for a short period of time more and then going to travel, ride my bike and explore what it is I like to do now (brewing? woodwork? reading? bike building?). I have an explicit exit plan from the rat race. The outdoors and the freedom to do what I want, when I want is my goal now. "Things" are not important - experiences are!

    If you really enjoy medicine, spend some time with several docs and ask them about how much time they are treating patients, how much time they can spend with patients - ask them about the metrics they have at hospitals, ask them about reimbursement/billing issues, staffing issues, catchment areas and pricing negotiation and see if medicine is really centered around treating patients and is what you think it is.

    OP, good luck to you. As I am sure you have, imagine yourself on your deathbed. Do you really think you will have wished you had worked more or played more? If work=enjoyment, you are on the right path.

    FR
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    My sis has been in the field for almost a yr now. She left with .25m in loans but is well on her way to making a living. If I wasn't doing what i'm doing now i'd have gone to college and med school for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheYoungConnoisseur View Post
    My sis has been in the field for almost a yr now. She left with .25m in loans but is well on her way to making a living. If I wasn't doing what i'm doing now i'd have gone to college and med school for sure.
    That is like saying "I would have played college baseball and then played as a pro for the Dodgers." Kinda getting ahead of yourself there in my opinion...

    I am not claiming that you aren't capable, but nobody appreciates comments like this. Especially those who have worked their butt off to get into med school.

    Do share. What is it that you do anyways?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet9n8 View Post
    That is like saying "I would have played college baseball and then played as a pro for the Dodgers." Kinda getting ahead of yourself there in my opinion...

    I am not claiming that you aren't capable, but nobody appreciates comments like this. Especially those who have worked their butt off to get into med school.

    Do share. What is it that you do anyways?
    You rent nice cars to people? If so, you must get to drive a lot of fun cars

  38. #38
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    APRN! thats what I plan on doing

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    I allways love cutting stuff with my hands and widdling stuff. I'd love to be a surgeon. Racing cars car before I got the op. to go to college so would you rather be racing cars and sport bikes or going to college when faced with a once in a lifetime choice?

    I followed my dream and the racing didn't pan out so I missed my opp to be a surgeon. otherwise i'd be elbow deep in some ladies jejunum right now!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by far raider View Post
    Sheepo, this post is at the heart of the matter. Life should be about enjoying. Do it!

    To the OP, if you TRULY want to go to med school and have that responsibility, then more power to you but if you are driven by the salary, alleged prestige and lifestyle in any way you will have problems.

    I loved science and would have loved to have been a scientist in the 1600s to 1800s when observation and thought gave results. I did a chem undergrad and cell biology PhD. Labs today are publication machines so they can get funding so they can get more publications (the majority of which are absolute crap). Kits and mass production rule rather than elegant experiments that truly answer scientific questions. The same goes academic hospital research labs.

    Now I left the bench and work for a pharmaceutical company in clinical research - why? That is where the easy money and benefits are. I am only doing this for a short period of time more and then going to travel, ride my bike and explore what it is I like to do now (brewing? woodwork? reading? bike building?). I have an explicit exit plan from the rat race. The outdoors and the freedom to do what I want, when I want is my goal now. "Things" are not important - experiences are!

    If you really enjoy medicine, spend some time with several docs and ask them about how much time they are treating patients, how much time they can spend with patients - ask them about the metrics they have at hospitals, ask them about reimbursement/billing issues, staffing issues, catchment areas and pricing negotiation and see if medicine is really centered around treating patients and is what you think it is.

    OP, good luck to you. As I am sure you have, imagine yourself on your deathbed. Do you really think you will have wished you had worked more or played more? If work=enjoyment, you are on the right path.

    FR
    i agree with a lot of what your saying, but you had to work hard to be able to get a phd and land a job with a pharmaceutical company. things aren't important, but if you can't afford a bike or food, then being in the outdoors might not be quite as rewarding.

    ^thats a ton of money to be making in EM isn't it? i know that people get paid more in less desirable areas, but i didn't realize it was that much more. do you know how much a PA makes at your hospital?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheYoungConnoisseur View Post
    I allways love cutting stuff with my hands and widdling stuff. I'd love to be a surgeon. Racing cars car before I got the op. to go to college so would you rather be racing cars and sport bikes or going to college when faced with a once in a lifetime choice?

    I followed my dream and the racing didn't pan out so I missed my opp to be a surgeon. otherwise i'd be elbow deep in some ladies jejunum right now!
    So, I just found out this year that I had been racing against Eric Bostrom. I had no idea who he was and how successful he was racing motos. Clearly I don't follow moto streebike supermoto whatever it's called...

    They guy is a machine on his XC race bike too.. simply crushes it out there...

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    Yup, almost every single motorcycle racer either does XC or road racing.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    If you are concerned about money then MD. My bro in law is a ophthalmologist surgeon, and a partner at a clinic, makes $6 million a year. BUT has to work 6 Days A Week.

    My other bro in law is a MD, gastroenterologist surgeon makes $1.5 million a year, works 6 days a week. Also a partner at a smaller clinic.

    My high school bud is a dentist makes only $500k a year, but works 5 days a week.

    I don't buy this. I work with MDs all day. Three of my close friends are surgeons. No physicians make that much money unless there's something else going on.

    And a VAST majority of dentists in America make less than $300k a year. Even certified dental surgeons.

    And the Panda Bear guy is full of sh*t too. Surgeons rarely make over $400k per year, unless they are in the top of their field with significant work history. I worked for the director of an ER who made under $400k, as well as a top-tier gastroenterology surgeon in SD who makes around $300k.

    Misinformation like this gives medicine a bad name and supports ignorance regarding the field.

    Lastly, to the OP, the face of medicine is changing rapidly. You will see significant reductions in doctor pay as well as complications from health insurance increase over the next 10 years as the government gets more involved (which is what people seem to want since healthcare is becoming unaffordable.) Two of my close friends who are MDs don't think it's worth it, and given the chance to do it again they wouldn't.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Lastly, to the OP, the face of medicine is changing rapidly. You will see significant reductions in doctor pay as well as complications from health insurance increase over the next 10 years as the government gets more involved (which is what people seem to want since healthcare is becoming unaffordable.) Two of my close friends who are MDs don't think it's worth it, and given the chance to do it again they wouldn't.
    DING DING DING!!!!!

    With the way health care spending is going in the US, expect to see the average wages of docs start decline soon (next 5-10 years). Couple that with the amount you spend in student loans now...it's hard to see the pay off.

    That being said, if its what you want...do it. There is a shortage of Docs.

    I'm a grad student in Public Health right now. Working on a MPH in Environmental Health. There are plenty of Dr.s, PAs, and NPs in my classes. Most of the NPs I talk to wish they had gone to med school to be a Dr. The PAs don't ever say that. Take that for what it's worth.

    I'd second BME if you're interested...lot of money heading that way, and (if you like computers at all) bioinformatics is very hot right now. It's more on the research side of things, but if you do bioinformatics, I don't think you'll ever have to look for a job very hard.

    Also: Public Health. I wanted to go to med school and never did. Now it just isn't feasible, but I was ready to do something new, so I went Public Health. I really enjoy it. It's health on a large scale level, rather than the individual. I've focused more on the Epidemiology and Environmental side, but there is also community health, policy, and biostatistics (if you like math ).

  45. #45
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    To the OP... If money is your main concern don't go into medicine. Medical school is hard and expensive and residency can crush even the most resilient people. You're not going to starve as a physician and you will always have a job. But you will not become a millionaire... Those days are long gone. The average orthopedic surgeon (my field) makes 350k a year. I would recommend you try to get some medical exposure before making any decisions. If you go into any profession for the wrong reasons, especially a highly demanding one, you're going to be miserable.



    PM if you have specific questions... I went to MCV/VCU for medical school paid for by the Army. I've got a great practice and I ride 6 days a week!

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    Man, I was all pumped up to chime in on this thread, and then I saw ^^^^ it was bumped by this DB's posts.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Man, I was all pumped up to chime in on this thread, and then I saw ^^^^ it was bumped by this DB's posts.
    I'm guessing you meant the spammer post, not Kinsler's that it's point to now?



  48. #48
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    DOH! Yes, you are correct . . . Sorry Kinsler!
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  49. #49
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    Old thread, I know, but I am just echoing the sentiments about studying art.

    A liberal art degree, even a doctorate, is only worth the diploma's weight in toilet paper. Every person who I know who has any sort of degree in liberal arts is struggling or just breaking even if they are a teacher. I really don't understand why people are abandoning the arts or think that they are worthless. It is one of the few things that makes us uniquely human, but we seem to take it for granted. I can make more money as a hooker. What is so unique about that? What living thing CAN'T ****?! Sheesh. :/

    OP, if you still are unsure, I would go purely based on job market. Figure out where you will want to live, if there is somewhere specific. Check out the job market scene, and go for the area where you would be in highest demand and still make enough to be comfortable. It's rough right now, and passion and dreams can only get you so far. The ones who are focused and are willing to get the job done regardless of their own desires are the ones who are really getting through right now. That is where my focus had to turn just to keep a roof over my head and the electricity on.

    Just look at it this way; You can always go back and study something else if the most lucrative path doesn't work out. You will have the money to do it, and the experience to know what you really want this time! I regret not taking my own advice and just studying something that would get me a job instead of what I enjoy. Cause if you can't get a job, you STILL can't do what you enjoy, and are screwed two ways instead of one!

  50. #50
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    finish your premed thats a good choice

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