Mass shooting in Canada- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Mass shooting in Canada

    Very sad, rip.
    www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52373798

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  2. #2
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    Very sad. Today they announced that the shooter had his girlfriend tied up and was assaulting her. She managed to escape and run into the woods. His response was to go on this massacre rampage.
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    Man, that is something. I always think of Canadians as fairly non-violent people. I still do. This is some kind of anomaly. A terrible story.
    Just call me Ray

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    He had a bunch of fake rcmp cars, which is illegal and the cops knew about it.
    He was busted for a serious assault in 2001 and had a condition discharge.
    Cuffed his gf but she was able to get away which saved her life. So he went off the rails, catch a kidnapping charge, probably domestic charges, who knows if he was high or drunk but they hardly ever release autopsies.

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    this is an anomaly.

  6. #6
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    Oh OK.


    If it’s only an anomaly.
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



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    PM Justin Trudeau doesnt want the media to give the public the name or a picture of the mass murderer.

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    This was a terrible tragedy for Canada and Nova Scotia. And the media has released the shooters name and details about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Very sad, rip.
    www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52373798

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    Damn! That article paints a good picture.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    this is an anomaly.
    yep, so terrible to read the news reports as more details emerged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mckinley View Post
    This was a terrible tragedy for Canada and Nova Scotia. And the media has released the shooters name and details about him.
    Its good the media released his name and photo, its the fact that JT wanted it to be kept secret that is worrisome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    Its good the media released his name and photo, its the fact that JT wanted it to be kept secret that is worrisome.
    I don't know JT's motivation, but I agree with him that the shooter's name and image shouldn't be shared. (Or share it ONLY one time, then NEVER mention the shooter's name again on National news.)

    A large reason many of these 'mass' shooters commit these acts are to gain the notoriety and infamy that'll result. They become a household name. Over 20 years later, I still remember Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' name - and I shouldn't.

    Rob them of their infamy, and it'll take away a lot of the motivation. Given the alternative, I'd prefer they remain a lone suicide. Wouldn't you?

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  13. #13
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    Balance between ignorance and infamy.
    Good to know who.
    Don’t need a TV movie.
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    I don't know JT's motivation, but I agree with him that the shooter's name and image shouldn't be shared. (Or share it ONLY one time, then NEVER mention the shooter's name again on National news.)

    A large reason many of these 'mass' shooters commit these acts are to gain the notoriety and infamy that'll result. They become a household name. Over 20 years later, I still remember Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' name - and I shouldn't.

    Rob them of their infamy, and it'll take away a lot of the motivation. Given the alternative, I'd prefer they remain a lone suicide. Wouldn't you?

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    Absolutely agree. Don’t make them famous, which is what they are after.
    DAAAANG...that was janky

  15. #15
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    I’m just not sure fame is the primary motivation.
    I expect there is a much deeper problem than attention seeking.
    Not sure if the identity was completely removed from the equation the rest of the reality would disappear.
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I’m just not sure fame is the primary motivation.
    I expect there is a much deeper problem than attention seeking.
    Not sure if the identity was completely removed from the equation the rest of the reality would disappear.
    I think you are right.

    To go out and kill innocent strangers, there has to be some type of mental illness going on in that person.
    I don't think it's as simple as "wanting attention".

    Either way it's very sad for all the families involved, tragic.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    I think you are right.

    To go out and kill innocent strangers, there has to be some type of mental illness going on in that person.
    I don't think it's as simple as "wanting attention".

    Either way it's very sad for all the families involved, tragic.

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    People nurture hate, envy, jealousy, and vanity and evil gets a foothold.
    Their whole thought process degenerates.
    I don’t know how people cope with such tragedy. I guess finding comfort in other loved ones is about the best they can do.
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



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    Justin has been trying to stop news media and censor long before the massacre ever happened.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    Justin has been trying to stop news media and censor long before the massacre ever happened.
    JT has taken this tragedy and used it to invoke the new gun laws through OIC, bypassing all democratic processes. JT does this and other things like censoring the media, making power grabs and so on because he does not respect our charter of rights. (dictator)

    If anyone has sensationalized this tragedy, it's him, by using it as a political gain.

    Instead of spending billions criminalizing legal gun owners, he could spend that money on mental health, gang crime, border security, tasks force to stop gun smuggling, things that would actually make a difference and possible help prevent a horrible tragedy like this shooting.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I don’t know how people cope with such tragedy. I guess finding comfort in other loved ones is about the best they can do.
    And thoughts and prayers.
    "Nobody likes me."

    DJT

  21. #21
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    This is how you cope with it

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/3067446001/

    More than thoughts and prayers
    Round and round we go

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    This is how you cope with it

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/3067446001/

    More than thoughts and prayers
    I'm a little surprised you could still obtain these style of weapons in Canada.
    I'm Australian...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    This is how you cope with it

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/3067446001/

    More than thoughts and prayers
    Let's see how that works. If it does, maybe we can learn from it.
    "Nobody likes me."

    DJT

  24. #24
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    It has already been proved not to work, in this very case.
    Educate yourselves on the facts of the case before you post.
    Otherwise people who read your posts, in light of those facts, will find them silly and foolish.
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    It has already been proved not to work, in this very case.
    Educate yourselves on the facts of the case before you post.
    Otherwise people who read your posts, in light of those facts, will find them silly and foolish.
    Worked here.
    Educate yourselves on the facts of the case before you post.
    Otherwise people who read your posts, in light of those facts, will find them silly and foolish.

  26. #26
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    I thought the title of the thread was “Mass Shooting in Canada”.
    Your parroting of my words is a noble attempt, but self implicating on your part.

    But if you want to expand the subject, try this.....
    Looks like Murder is alive and well down under.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...s_in_Australia
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by October26 View Post
    I'm a little surprised you could still obtain these style of weapons in Canada.
    I'm Australian...
    Have to have your own Port Arthur before you act unfortunately.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I thought the title of the thread was “Mass Shooting in Canada”.
    Your parroting of my words is a noble attempt, but self implicating on your part.

    But if you want to expand the subject, try this.....
    Looks like Murder is alive and well down under.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...s_in_Australia
    Funny how you have felt so aggrieved by a comment to you that you feel the need to defend yourself against them by completely irrelevant replies and links, even when those are the exact same words, in the exact same context that you have just used towards another poster.

    Probably the only thing more certain than the fact the majority of people reading this thread will see the hypocrisy of your actions is that you will stick true to form and have to have the last word by responding and trying to prove me wrong, no doubt by again trying to muddy the waters with completely irrelevant dribble. Conundrum?

    Perfect mating, poster to post.


  29. #29
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    Perhaps Canada should follow the Aussie lead and ban murder......
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



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    I thought I heard on the news (A 4+ days ago) that the gunman (51-year-old Gabriel Wortman) did not possess a basic firearms license (PAL), which includes a class and a test to get the PAL license. It doesn't even need to cost any money, there are education "hunter/sportsman" services/charities available where donations are accepted for payment.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...a-mass-killing
    There is no firm definition of what counts as a “military-style assault weapon” in Canada

    RCMP officials have not said yet what weapons were used by Gabriel Wortman in a killing spree that began Saturday night and carried into Sunday. They also declined to answer whether the guns were classified as prohibited, restricted or non-restricted, and whether Wortman had a firearms possession licence.

    Lucki did not answer a question about whether Wortman had a licence to legally purchase and possess firearms. However, she did say Wortman “wasn’t on our radar, as far as we know,” despite the fact he was using what she called a “replica” car painted to look exactly like an RCMP cruiser.

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    Understand this new gun law in Canada will do nothing to make Canada safer and reduce gun crime. Canada has very strict gun laws already and a very different "gun culture" from the US. Canada is not Australia or New Zealand. Canada shares one of the longest undefended borders with the US. The majority of gun crime in Canada comes from illegal guns smuggled in from the US. Punishing law abiding citizens will not do anything.

    This was a political move to yet again virtue signal and buy votes from our government. All Canadians should be appalled at how this was done as it bypassed all democratic processes. Experts and studies are all in agreement that a gun ban in Canada will not work.

    Oh and Natives are exempt from the ban. Canadian fire arm licenses will now be based on race WTF! (and ignore the facts that some well know reserves on the border are known to smuggle guns across the border).

    Again spend the money on law enforcement, border control and mental health.

  32. #32
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    In the end... regardless of motive by JT or Liberal govt....there's just zero reason for anyone other than military to need any of these types of weapons.... no matter how 'fun' they are.

    All of the BS about rights and freedoms is just crap in my view. I'm Canadian for the record, and now live in Australia... but when I think about the US and people holding giant automatic weapons protesting Covid I just shake my head in disbelief how anyone can justify that behaviour. The 2nd amendment or whatever it was was written in the 1700s... it should be changed.. the times we live in are completely different...

    I personally think hunting rifles and that's it.... but I get that some people enjoy recreational shooting... personally I don't understand it.. but each to their own.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    In the end... regardless of motive by JT or Liberal govt....there's just zero reason for anyone other than military to need any of these types of weapons.... no matter how 'fun' they are.

    All of the BS about rights and freedoms is just crap in my view. I'm Canadian for the record, and now live in Australia... but when I think about the US and people holding giant automatic weapons protesting Covid I just shake my head in disbelief how anyone can justify that behaviour. The 2nd amendment or whatever it was was written in the 1700s... it should be changed.. the times we live in are completely different...

    I personally think hunting rifles and that's it.... but I get that some people enjoy recreational shooting... personally I don't understand it.. but each to their own.
    Nailed it

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by October26 View Post
    I'm a little surprised you could still obtain these style of weapons in Canada.
    I'm Australian...
    if you have the correct licence you can get them here in Aus as well.

    with any luck Canada will just give them the middle finger like they did last time they tried to make them register them

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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    In the end... regardless of motive by JT or Liberal govt....there's just zero reason for anyone other than military to need any of these types of weapons.... no matter how 'fun' they are.

    All of the BS about rights and freedoms is just crap in my view. I'm Canadian for the record, and now live in Australia... but when I think about the US and people holding giant automatic weapons protesting Covid I just shake my head in disbelief how anyone can justify that behaviour. The 2nd amendment or whatever it was was written in the 1700s... it should be changed.. the times we live in are completely different...

    I personally think hunting rifles and that's it.... but I get that some people enjoy recreational shooting... personally I don't understand it.. but each to their own.
    Having owned and still own firearms in Australia since before there were licences.... please go flagellate your self with a frill-neck lizard

    Firearms owners here have never been the problem....Criminals have been the problem

    Port Arthur was done by a guy who could not get a licence or had any legal way to get them
    but here we are years later making legal firearms owners the criminals and the actual criminals go do as they wish

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMISSIONARY View Post
    Having owned and still own firearms in Australia since before there were licences.... please go flagellate your self with a frill-neck lizard

    Firearms owners here have never been the problem....Criminals have been the problem

    Port Arthur was done by a guy who could not get a licence or had any legal way to get them
    but here we are years later making legal firearms owners the criminals and the actual criminals go do as they wish
    I'm not going to get into a pissing contest... I did say it was purely my opinion... but balance of probability is that eventually someone with legal guns will go nuts and kill people.... US is perfect example... it will happen here in AUS and will happen again in Canada...

    There's just no need for the assault type weapons and I disagree with anyone who argues there is... the risk is not worth the reward...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    I'm not going to get into a pissing contest... I did say it was purely my opinion... but balance of probability is that eventually someone with legal guns will go nuts and kill people.... US is perfect example... it will happen here in AUS and will happen again in Canada...

    There's just no need for the assault type weapons and I disagree with anyone who argues there is... the risk is not worth the reward...
    and mu opinion is I disagree

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMISSIONARY View Post
    and mu opinion is I disagree
    Cool. Let's ride instead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    Cool. Let's ride instead!
    Sounds good .....except my trails are all in lock down

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMISSIONARY View Post
    Sounds good .....except my trails are all in lock down
    VIC? I had a great ride today... nothing closed in NSW as far as I know

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    VIC? I had a great ride today... nothing closed in NSW as far as I know
    nah Tas currently its only areas they haven't thought about,so mostly small short single track interlaced with gravel and road

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Perhaps Canada should follow the Aussie lead and ban murder......
    Perhaps your humor ploy would work here if you understood that following is a choice, not a formality
    Oh, and if the thread wasn’t about dead people because whack jobs have too easy excess to guns
    Round and round we go

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Perhaps Canada should follow the Aussie lead and ban murder......
    Murder is bad, mmmmkay?
    Don't do murder, mmmkay?
    /Badsouthparkjoke

    But really, I find it funny, like more laws and restricting guns is going to do anything. The people that commit crimes like this are not law abiding citizens!


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    The people that commit crimes like this are not law abiding citizens!
    Actually, most of the time in mass shootings they are... er, well, "were". This is the problem.

    "gun control" is a topic most people fight about yet I find don't really understand.

    Gun control doesn't target criminals. They are criminals, they wont obey these laws anyway, duh. Gun control tries to keep weapons out of situations where they can be used in spur of the moment acts or accidents.

    Not, all, but MANY of these mass shootings fall under the category of legally acquired weapons used by otherwise law abiding citizens.

    Lets say YOU want an AR15 for any reason, and YOU will never hurt anyone with it, and will be responsible, lock it up, etc. BUT, like the corona virus lockdown, these measures are not about YOU. YOU need to look past what YOU want, and look at what makes EVERYONE ELSE safer. If banning AR15's means that ONE person can't get one when they snap and can't kill 22 people in a heartbeat, then that law has done it's job, and YOUR small sacrifice in gun ownership was worth while.

    IF. Now, in that context, we can debate genuinely what gun control measures would actually do anything useful, just stop bringing up the idea of gangs, smuggling, and "criminals". That is an entirely separate problem the police have their hands full with.

    My personal thoughts on gun control are that registrations and training do a lot. Bans, not so much. But then again, I'm not a crime stats analyst. I'm canadian of course as well. We have a very different cultural mentality towards guns than the USA. Almost all legal guns here are going to be for hunting or sport. The idea of the right to bear arms, self protection, etc is not really a thing here. So lets see what this ban does. All you have to lose is a gun you didn't need - and likely have never seen in real life - anyway.

    Take some consolation that the government is at least TRYING to do something. It's a shame that the US culture towards guns doesn't allow them to do ANYTHING at all, except "pray" to their imaginary friend.

  45. #45
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    I'm Canadian too, but lived the last 20 years in the US. So I've seen both sides.

    Someone can do bad things with a hunting rifle or a shotgun just as easily.

    Maybe we just make everyone hunt with bow?

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    When it comes to jailing the murderers in Canada, they are getting off pretty light. The majority of society believes there needs to be longer prison terms for those criminals. The criminals will get firearms one way or another and its hardly if ever legally.

    Where it does get dicey for the courts are the herbal hippies that end up with a child dead because they gave some herbals instead of taking the child to a doctor. There are more and more of those cases.

    There was a case where some criminals were stealing from a farm. The farmer shot at the intruders and yet the farmer was arrested. Thats the kind of silliness that needs to end.

    Justin just wants votes thats the play he is making.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    I'm Canadian too, but lived the last 20 years in the US. So I've seen both sides.

    Someone can do bad things with a hunting rifle or a shotgun just as easily.

    Maybe we just make everyone hunt with bow?

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    I can f*** you up pretty bad with a spoon.

    I think the theory is that a hunting rifle especially takes some effort to gun down more than 1 or 2 people before getting caught. That's a broad statement of course. Handguns are a level up, and then you get to the automatic stuff - most of which was already illegal. It also gets extended to most of the automatic weapons are designed to kill people, and nothing else (military or law enforcement weapons basically).

    The line in the sand it pretty arbitrary I suppose, but at the same time, doing nothing doesn't seem to be the right option "now".

    At the least, we will get some conclusive data on what happens. That's been hard to come by because so few countries have taken this step, and the ones that have aren't necessarily going to have the same result. Closest country to us in terms of social mentality is probably NZ.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    When it comes to jailing the murderers in Canada, they are getting off pretty light. The majority of society believes there needs to be longer prison terms for those criminals. The criminals will get firearms one way or another and its hardly if ever legally.

    Where it does get dicey for the courts are the herbal hippies that end up with a child dead because they gave some herbals instead of taking the child to a doctor. There are more and more of those cases.

    There was a case where some criminals were stealing from a farm. The farmer shot at the intruders and yet the farmer was arrested. Thats the kind of silliness that needs to end.

    Justin just wants votes thats the play he is making.
    There is zero correlation between jail time and violet crimes. Let me repeat that, zero. Do you really think that somebody thinking about jail time when they decide to commit a murder? Come on.

    How do you keep assault rifles out of criminals hands?
    Step 1: don't let them buy them legally.
    Step 2: give the police the resources to go after illegal sales and smuggling.

    This isn't rocket science here. It should be really obvious to anyone one with half a brain that if want to keep assault rifles out criminals hands the first thing you do is stop them from buying them legally.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    It should be really obvious to anyone one with half a brain that if want to keep assault rifles out criminals hands the first thing you do is stop them from buying them legally.
    In order for a gun to get to a criminal, the gun has to be made, then sold. They will be a point not too far from now where the guns wont need to come from "legitimate" manufacturers, but for now they do. So I think you would be totally right in that if no one was buying these guns legally, there would be no way for them to reach a criminal - short of the gun company supplying criminals directly, or them being stolen from governments and militaries.

    I'd be curious how many illegal guns come from former legal ownership, and which are stolen from government sources. I know police confiscations "disappearing" has been talked about in the past, and I can imagine in less stable countries its not hard to steal military weapons then smuggle them out.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    In order for a gun to get to a criminal, the gun has to be made, then sold. They will be a point not too far from now where the guns wont need to come from "legitimate" manufacturers, but for now they do. So I think you would be totally right in that if no one was buying these guns legally, there would be no way for them to reach a criminal - short of the gun company supplying criminals directly, or them being stolen from governments and militaries.

    I'd be curious how many illegal guns come from former legal ownership, and which are stolen from government sources. I know police confiscations "disappearing" has been talked about in the past, and I can imagine in less stable countries its not hard to steal military weapons then smuggle them out.

    In these times it is an interesting question to ask is what are we will to give up for public safety. Obviously right now a lot of us are going up a lot.

    But is gun ownership for sport and hunting one of those things we should give up? Are those recreational opportunities worth 250 gun deaths per year?
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I'd be curious how many illegal guns come from former legal ownership, and which are stolen from government sources. I know police confiscations "disappearing" has been talked about in the past, and I can imagine in less stable countries its not hard to steal military weapons then smuggle them out.
    Plenty - I live in a small city in NZ and an ex president of the local gun club managed to let a small armoury fall into the hands of gangs in 2017 (23 pistols, 4 MSA, shotguns and 23000 rounds of ammo). Weapons were unsecured in his home. If the f***wit wasn’t allowed to have them; that wouldn’t have happened, simple as that.

    I’m a gun owner and I see no reason for handguns and MSAs to exist in our society. Happy to see them banned, I don’t want to see another ChCh massacre.

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    If People in NZ weren’t allowed to murder..........

    “To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
    – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
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    "law abiding" citizen of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    If People in NZ weren’t allowed to murder..........
    Not sure what you feel you're adding to the conversation, but I can tell you it's neither insight nor humour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Not sure what you feel you're adding to the conversation, but I can tell you it's neither insight nor humour.
    And your contribution is irrelevant to both law, personal religious freedom, and custom of my Country.

    How’s this for “insight”....
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49862478
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  56. #56
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    In order for a knife, car, rope, baseball bat, flammable or explosive liquid, poison to get to a criminal.....
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



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    the problem is someone thinks they can wave a magic wand about and the guns will disappear Nope it wont work....it hasn't worked and Canada has even less chance of it working than Aus.
    the Statistics in Aus show that of all the imported firearms(they only have data back to 1980) less than half have been handed in(of the classes regulated eg they are no banned) and i often used and still use firearms dating back to WW2 or even older.

    and then there is the illegal gun trade.....one guy working with two others in Europe imported around 6000 glock handguns again less than half have been found.

    so how would you keep them out of Criminals hands?

    it's not rocket science....you can't

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    How many mass shootings have been performed with those items?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    How many mass shootings have been performed with those items?
    Educate yourself.
    9 of the 22 victims died from fires he set.

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-fire-12686074
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    “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
    Freedom is a shield against the negative consequences of the Foolishness of others.



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    Quote Originally Posted by theMISSIONARY View Post
    so how would you keep them out of Criminals hands?

    it's not rocket science....you can't
    I would put them in a rocket... and send them to the moon.

    That's unfortunately the argument of "well we dug the hole this deep already, may as well keep going'. Then 20 years from now, we go again and say "Oh well we cant track the ones out there already, so we may as well do nothing again..."

    Nope, it cant clear up the screw ups we've already made, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth while full stop. You kinda wont know for many years after the initial ban/regulation weather it is having the desired effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I would put them in a rocket... and send them to the moon.

    You kinda wont know for many years after the initial ban/regulation weather it is having the desired effect.
    Why the moon.
    Rockets are dangerous.
    Whether launched in good weather or bad.......
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    Some numbers here in Canada:

    ~74 bike deaths per year (obviously mostly due to cars)
    ~250 gun homicides per year, with ~35-40 guns per 100 ppl, ~150 from handguns, 2 from automatics, others from mix of rifle/shotgun/unknown
    ~2000 car related deaths per year, with ~60 cars per 100 ppl
    ~275000 deaths total per year.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...-ban-1.5552131

    As per article above, 70-90+% of guns (depends on municipality) used for crime in Canada are from the US. There has been no mention of increasing border security regarding guns.

    The ban is on assault 'style' which is interesting, as all the guns listed in the ban are being banned largely due to their appearance - there are plenty of semi auto sporting/hunting 'style' guns that are still ok. Depending on your definition of assault weapon, if it includes automatic or select-fire capability, those have already been banned for many years in Canada.

    I think everyone is going to have their own opinions on what should or shouldn't be banned. I know a decent number of people (not me) that have these styles of guns that they use for various 'sporting purposes' at gun clubs, competitions, etc... not too different from our hobby of biking

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I would put them in a rocket... and send them to the moon.

    That's unfortunately the argument of "well we dug the hole this deep already, may as well keep going'. Then 20 years from now, we go again and say "Oh well we cant track the ones out there already, so we may as well do nothing again..."

    Nope, it cant clear up the screw ups we've already made, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth while full stop. You kinda wont know for many years after the initial ban/regulation weather it is having the desired effect.
    it started here in 1996..... yep it hasn't worked

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    Quote Originally Posted by afalts View Post
    Some numbers here in Canada:

    ~74 bike deaths per year (obviously mostly due to cars)
    ~250 gun homicides per year, with ~35-40 guns per 100 ppl, ~150 from handguns, 2 from automatics, others from mix of rifle/shotgun/unknown
    ~2000 car related deaths per year, with ~60 cars per 100 ppl
    ~275000 deaths total per year.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...-ban-1.5552131

    As per article above, 70-90+% of guns (depends on municipality) used for crime in Canada are from the US. There has been no mention of increasing border security regarding guns.

    The ban is on assault 'style' which is interesting, as all the guns listed in the ban are being banned largely due to their appearance - there are plenty of semi auto sporting/hunting 'style' guns that are still ok. Depending on your definition of assault weapon, if it includes automatic or select-fire capability, those have already been banned for many years in Canada.

    I think everyone is going to have their own opinions on what should or shouldn't be banned. I know a decent number of people (not me) that have these styles of guns that they use for various 'sporting purposes' at gun clubs, competitions, etc... not too different from our hobby of biking
    its to meet the UN mandate the Canadian politician is going for the same thing as NZs Ardern ....a job with the UN

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMISSIONARY View Post
    it started here in 1996..... yep it hasn't worked
    So are you saying that there are Just as many newer than 1996 guns making their way into the country illegally straight to criminals than there were coming in legally before 1996?

    That would be sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    So are you saying that there are Just as many newer than 1996 guns making their way into the country illegally straight to criminals than there were coming in legally before 1996?

    That would be sad.
    plenty enough "new" guns mostly hand guns but the majority of long guns are ones that were never "handed" in and or they are so old that there is no import data for.

    one problem the Government here won't accept is the numbers they have are just not the number of guns total as it makes it even less effective.

    the Australian laws are more about controlling the law abiding

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
    You have noticed the year of these quotes right? Completely irrelevant in today's world...

    Americans love these quotes... and guess what? US is by far the worst of all 1st world countries for killing each other.... you can blame healthcare and subsequent mental illness, poverty etc, but it's cultural... the mentality of "guns to protect" is beyond ridiculous in today's world...

    I agree with Jefferson in late 1700s....but really would he say that today?? I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post

    I agree with Jefferson in late 1700s....but really would he say that today?? I doubt it.
    I think he would say that it's more relevant today than ever.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    I think he would say that it's more relevant today than ever.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Agreed. I think there are a few people posting here who need to go back look at why the Jefferson and the rest of the Founding Fathers felt a need to start this country and what they were willing to risk to make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Agreed. I think there are a few people posting here who need to go back look at why the Jefferson and the rest of the Founding Fathers felt a need to start this country and what they were willing to risk to make it happen.
    Wasnt aware jefferson started this country. We did have fun burning down the white house in his though

    The people in this thread from "that" country, should remember that they are the world's go to example of what not to do regarding (among many other things) gun laws.

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    We the people ...

    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Wasnt aware jefferson started this country. We did have fun burning down the white house in his though

    The people in this thread from "that" country, should remember that they are the world's go to example of what not to do regarding (among many other things) gun laws.
    I wasn't the one that brought up Jefferson or the U.S. Just adding to the trending direction of the thread.

    As far as my country being the the example of what not to do for the rest of the world in regards to gun control goes, I am totally okay with that. The opinions of foreigners on our gun laws will be filed in the correct box and carefully taken into consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    The opinions of foreigners on our gun laws will be filed in the correct box and carefully taken into consideration.
    This of course is one of the reasons for the problems in your country... but that's another 24235363 threads worth of circular pointless discussion.

    Up here, we will see what happens after this ban. We have had exactly 2 mass shootings on this scale, ever, so we may never really know if anything of this matters at all other than the psychological benefit of believing the government did something.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    This of course is one of the reasons for the problems in your country... but that's another 24235363 threads worth of circular pointless discussion.
    LMAO I will make sure this one gets filed and reviewed as well.

    Actually, I think the problem more in line with what Mckinley suggested above. Politicians are fighting this from the wrong angle altogether.

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    Politicians only do what you let them. Stop voting for the terrible ones

    Trudeau's personal motives, I'm unsure of. The pandemic has done a lot to show the true nature of some politicians.

    Trudeau have been a very consistent... meh. He's always been meh. He's still meh. I guess in some ways that's good, but he could be doing so much better. He is definitely using the pandemic to push things non pandemic related, like this gun ban, but I expect this may have passed even without it. The balance of power in parliament is held by people that would support it, and the public support them.

    Trump of course has imploded on your side, but that was expected. What was less expected is how badly some of the local leaders have done. Up here on the local level I've been somewhat amazed. Some have had some missteps, but mostly they are dong ok, but then there's Doug Ford. Seems the objectively worst Ontario premiere(governor) in modern history has turned out to be the shining light in the country holding things together, continually making good hard decisions that seem to be made only with the safety of the people in mind.

    Go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Some have had some missteps, but mostly they are dong ok, but then there's Doug Ford. Seems the objectively worst Ontario premiere(governor) in modern history has turned out to be the shining light in the country holding things together, continually making good hard decisions that seem to be made only with the safety of the people in mind.
    His competence has been absolutely stunning. Nobody would have predicted that he would step and let go of partisan politics in this time of crisis.

    Other than in Alberta, across Canada most politicians have put politics to the side and focused on the crisis at hand. Here in BC politicians of all parties have been working closely together together to come up with the best plan.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    Cases have been thrown out because it took too long to go to trial. Now with the covid19 virus, the courts are stopped, and are backlogged even more yet more people are being thrown in jail. It was common practice to give double time and even triple time for remanded defendants. The criminals know the justice system is weak. People know it too. Why murder your family in Texas when you can go on vacation to Canada and do it. Instead of the death penalty you could get NCR'd, could, but more then likely instead of the death penalty, or your natural life in prison, Canada 5 yrs maybe 10, out in half the time with everything added up.

    Very light sentences for the criminals. The career criminals know it. Getting a dangerous offender status takes even more court time and resources away from the court system.

    The NCR defense might seem a cake walk but I'd like to know out of everyone thats been judged NCR what the recidivism rate is. I know the Greyhound Beheader is walking free after, within 2 yrs walking the pysch yard, within 4 allowed to go to a health retreat. Which a lot of offenders take advantage of, and just walk away.

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    From Jefferson to Churchill......

    Mass shooting in Canada-5ad6d5df-f3b6-49b1-a921-9bcd2a6f25fa.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    From Jefferson to Churchill......

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow how times have changed. The 2nd amendment has not. That call for guns was to defend against an invading army. We don’t have to worry about that, we have a wall
    Round and round we go

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    Born in Canada, this American Olympian sent his personal US military style weapon to England to be used by the English to defend their homes......

    When the British army lost most of its arms on the beach at Dunkirk during WWII, John W. Hession was one of many Americans who responded by loaning a rifle for British use.

    As this bolt-action Springfield rifle, SN 264631, was Hession's prized competition piece, a gun that had successfully competed in the Olympics, at Bisley Range in England, and in the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio - Hession placed specially engraved plates on the stock denoting its importance. The front plate, which asked for the rifle's return after the defeat of Germany, may be the reason this piece was returned to Hession after the war.

    Heinlein purchased this former military issue bolt-action rifle in his later years and used it for informal target shooting, mentioning a similar rifle in his novel, The Number of the Beast.

    Serving as an issued standard battle rifle for the United States military through two world wars and many other minor conflicts, the Model 1903 rifle was based in part on the Mauser Model 1898 design. The Springfield M1903 was manufactured at Springfield Armory in Springfield, MA, and also under government contract at Rock Island Arsenal in Rock Island, IL, and later at Remington Arms in Ilion, NY. Rock Island manufactured this rifle design only from 1904 to 1920.

    Over one and a half million examples were produced prior to 1941, and with the start of WWII, production began again at Remington and at Smith-Corona, a typewriter and mechanical calculator company in Syracuse, NY. The new Model 1903 was designed as the M1903A1 to distinguish the newer production from older manufactured rifles that could have heat-treating issues with the receiver in certain serial number ranges.

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    I do not look to NY for advice on protection from criminals or viral infections.......

    Personal observation donchaknow.....
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