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  1. #1
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    Make my day..law.

    Or: Stand your ground law.

    Break in and pay the consequences.

    Agree
    Or
    Not?

    https://gma.yahoo.com/killing-3-teen...opstories.html


    Edit: Update to this story for those behind on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    i suspect more folks will find SYG regardless of state, county to be applicable. when a violation such as this takes place put um in your sights..........

    and a lill tid bit of updated news.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.a8df91ef408a


    UPDATE: The getaway driver speaks out.


    https://gma.yahoo.com/dont-blame-him...opstories.html
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 03-31-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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  2. #2
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    He was a drug dealer and they were breaking in to steal his drugs.


    I'll put $20 on that.

    I mean, what else does a 23 year old (the shooter) have that is so valuable that a woman will round up 3 guys to be thugs for her to rob him of?

    Too bad they brought a knife and brass knuckles to a gunfight?

  3. #3
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    I think it's reasonable to assume person or persons breaking in are armed, crazy , desperate or drugged up. Bang Bang.

    Anyone saying you need to identify or justify that the person/s has a gun or knife before defending yourself or others in the home has no concept of survival. If I felt I had the chance or opportunity to shoot to wound, I might and I feel that's one's own choice but I don't' call it deal breaker in my book. Plenty of history shows drugged up culprits can take a number shots and continue advancing.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  4. #4
    nvphatty
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    agree, matters not what, who or the why's. As the burgler, breakin individuals on this day made a life ending decision.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    I think it's reasonable to assume person or persons breaking in are armed, crazy , desperate or drugged up. Bang Bang.
    On the flip side, the 3 perps didn't have the combined brain power to think it was reasonable to assume the victim would be better armed. Plop, plop, plop.
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  6. #6
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    On the flip side, the 3 perps didn't have the combined brain power to think it was reasonable to assume the victim would be better armed. Plop, plop, plop.
    consequences for the lack thereof.

  7. #7
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    Listen!

    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    He was a drug dealer and they were breaking in to steal his drugs.


    I'll put $20 on that.

    I mean, what else does a 23 year old (the shooter) have that is so valuable that a woman will round up 3 guys to be thugs for her to rob him of?

    Too bad they brought a knife and brass knuckles to a gunfight?
    Yeah... lol ! If they got all ready to take down a known drug dealer and had their nastiest of brass knuckles and a knife all set, What could go wrong ?
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    Yeah... lol ! If they got all ready to take down a known drug dealer and had their nastiest of brass knuckles and a knife all set, What could go wrong ?
    I'm not trying to garner empathy for the idiots that died.

    I am trying to set up everyone so proud of the shooter to feel ashamed for taking the side of a drug dealer once it comes to light that he was a heroin dealer :-P

    I might be totally wrong, and the shooter may well have helped little old ladies across the street on sundays....


    But, you have to ask yourself, what did that 23 year old have that was so valuable that a woman recruited 3 guys to rob him of, that once split 4 ways, would have resulted in all four of them having so much "loot" that it "was worth it"?

  9. #9
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I'm not trying to garner empathy for the idiots that died.

    I am trying to set up everyone so proud of the shooter to feel ashamed for taking the side of a drug dealer once it comes to light that he was a heroin dealer :-P

    I might be totally wrong, and the shooter may well have helped little old ladies across the street on sundays....


    But, you have to ask yourself, what did that 23 year old have that was so valuable that a woman recruited 3 guys to rob him of, that once split 4 ways, would have resulted in all four of them having so much "loot" that it "was worth it"?
    making a blatant assumption he's a drug dealer while no mention so far in the investigation has gone down this road is what makes this absurd. No i don't have to ask myself anything other than what transpired, which is 3 perps broke-in in some form or fashion and received what they had coming end of story till more facts are released.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    making a blatant assumption he's a drug dealer while no mention so far in the investigation has gone down this road is what makes this absurd.
    What do you believe was the reason the woman orchestrated the break in with 3 guys? That is, what was the motivation/reward for breaking into that specific house? A flat screen TV and an Ipad? Why not target a house where they know nobody is home if that is all they were after?

  11. #11
    nvphatty
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    i haven't a clue what the reason or reasons is, may have been etc....simply conjuring up some ideas with hypotheticals is useless at this stage.

  12. #12
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    I'm all for stand your ground.

    In this case, if jackbombay theory turns out to be true...the drug dealing will be found out during the investigation. Three useless people off the face of the earth and a heroin dealer busted...win win.
    NTFTC

  13. #13
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    Somewhere, some thug hears about this and thinks, "man, that could have been me. Maybe I should get a job to support my girlfriend and 3 kids instead of breaking into that house."

  14. #14
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGweed View Post
    I'm all for stand your ground.

    In this case, if jackbombay theory turns out to be true...the drug dealing will be found out during the investigation. Three useless people off the face of the earth and a heroin dealer busted...win win.
    yes and yes.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    i haven't a clue what the reason or reasons is
    For you to think that it wasn't drugs or money is completely naive.

  16. #16
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    Maybe they were after his valuable gun collection

  17. #17
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    I'm not sure why this is a big issue. If someone enters your house uninvited or worse, do you not have the right to protect yourself?

    It's a horrible outcome for these kids, but it's an inherent risk for being a criminal.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a big issue.
    What kind of nation are we becoming, if violent criminals can't go about their day-to-day business without fear of retaliation from their victims?
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  19. #19
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    Sounds like it had a good ending. Three dead scumbags who will not be repeat offenders any more.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I'm not trying to garner empathy for the idiots that died.

    I am trying to set up everyone so proud of the shooter to feel ashamed for taking the side of a drug dealer once it comes to light that he was a heroin dealer :-P

    I might be totally wrong, and the shooter may well have helped little old ladies across the street on sundays....


    But, you have to ask yourself, what did that 23 year old have that was so valuable that a woman recruited 3 guys to rob him of, that once split 4 ways, would have resulted in all four of them having so much "loot" that it "was worth it"?
    I was just making a point that a not very well orchestrated theft by "three recruited" for anything can and should end in similar results. It defies logic they were going after drug dealer possessions with anything 'brass' less than ammo for lethal weapons.
    Ideally, kids do not get killed. Scared or injured would be better.

    As to why a guy has such firepower or what they were after inside the property, that should be at issue as the investigation proceeds. Many are gun hobbyists or collectors and I expect, anyone with high value possessions might want something other than a pistol. Whatever the case, this gun owner could have been understandably panicked or just wanting to send a message like a bad neighborhood with multiple other invasions or past cases. If any of the three were shot in the back as retreating, there may be some serious questions that arise.

    Thinking of what he might have that's of high value, I often see every 3rd or 4th post here at mtbr by one who has 2, 3 - 5 bikes in their shed, yet cars here at trailheads get a smashed window and a good going through even when something of value isn't in plain sight. This is just more evidence people go to dangerous extremes for what they perceive as value.

    In my case, I can't think of much that's higher value than protecting anyone in my household including my dog but I'm quite selfish. (Born and raised "only child").
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a big issue. If someone enters your house uninvited or worse, do you not have the right to protect yourself?

    It's a horrible outcome for these kids, but it's an inherent risk for being a criminal.
    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    What kind of nation are we becoming, if violent criminals can't go about their day-to-day business without fear of retaliation from their victims?

    Locally, it seems to run in waves but I recall a number of times 'we' (Colorado Springs) had a strong presence in headlines of our local newspaper on the good-guy or good-gals winning those contests of a home invasion for robbery or sexual assault etc...

    I really believe that a summer or two of solid press on multiple stories where the homeowner, renter, hiker, person walking downtown or through the park gets the upper hand, first shot or best shot and translates as a good message that ought to be top-of-the fold every time. IMO, advertise the h3ll out of the bad seeds losing.
    It wouldn't hurt to let the criminals know or think most homes have a gun owner that is well versed on safety , use of force and the legalities of a "good shoot".
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomby Woof (MCM700) View Post
    Sounds like it had a good ending. Three dead scumbags who will not be repeat offenders any more.
    Now hang on a second ,, You're saying they can't or won't come back as Zombies ?
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  23. #23
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    For you to think that it wasn't drugs or money is completely naive.
    that's fine i'll be naive, but to speculate it involves drugs without any mention as of yesterday is a waste of thought, not to mention writing about it here is utterly useless.
    IF and when the investigation is complete and it's determined the crime involved drugs then you and i and all those involved will have answers, but till then zero, nada.

  24. #24
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a big issue. If someone enters your house uninvited or worse, do you not have the right to protect yourself?
    IMO absofugginlutely......

    It's a horrible outcome for these kids, but it's an inherent risk for being a criminal.
    6ft under was their calling.

    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    What kind of nation are we becoming, if violent criminals can't go about their day-to-day business without fear of retaliation from their victims?
    might as well set up wine, beer and sammichs and put a sign outside 'enter @ your own free will'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zomby Woof (MCM700) View Post
    Sounds like it had a good ending. Three dead scumbags who will not be repeat offenders any more.
    considering lawyer fees, court fees and the public paying for these useless vial asshats while they rot in prison i'm guessin it's a happy ending.

  25. #25
    nvphatty
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    here ya go JBB.........https://gma.yahoo.com/killing-3-teen...opstories.html with no mention of drugs, money what so ever.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    here ya go JBB.........https://gma.yahoo.com/killing-3-teen...opstories.html with no mention of drugs, money what so ever.
    I didn't realize the investigation was already complete.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I'm not trying to garner empathy for the idiots that died.

    I am trying to set up everyone so proud of the shooter to feel ashamed for taking the side of a drug dealer once it comes to light that he was a heroin dealer :-P

    I might be totally wrong, and the shooter may well have helped little old ladies across the street on sundays....


    But, you have to ask yourself, what did that 23 year old have that was so valuable that a woman recruited 3 guys to rob him of, that once split 4 ways, would have resulted in all four of them having so much "loot" that it "was worth it"?
    Maybe it wasn't his home but his dad's. His dad was home to according to the article, so there could be tvs, computers, money, and weapons. It doesn't have to do with drugs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Maybe it wasn't his home but his dad's. His dad was home to according to the article, so there could be tvs, computers, money, and weapons. It doesn't have to do with drugs.
    Something just seems off to me, so I posted about possibilities.

    Most of the other posters are so happy that a gun seemingly did something good for once that they aren't willing to look at the situation with a critical eye.

  29. #29
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    They said the kid was worried about the "victims". No one has mentioned the driver, I think she is part of it and should get prosecuted as well. 3 counts of murder ouch! Play with fire, you are going to get burned..
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Something just seems off to me, so I posted about possibilities.

    Most of the other posters are so happy that a gun seemingly did something good for once that they aren't willing to look at the situation with a critical eye.



    Did you ever consider that jumping to spurious conclusions isn't looking at it with a critical eye?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    No one has mentioned the driver, I think she is part of it and should get prosecuted as well.
    She was the "mastermind" behind the attempted robbery, without her talking the guys into it they would be alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    3 counts of murder ouch!
    Good.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Did you ever consider that jumping to spurious conclusions isn't looking at it with a critical eye?
    Just take everything at face value and close the case? Is that how it should go from here?

  33. #33
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Something just seems off to me, so I posted about possibilities.

    Most of the other posters are so happy that a gun seemingly did something good for once that they aren't willing to look at the situation with a critical eye.
    you could well be correct in your assumption, but why go there when nothing has been stated, found as of yet to contradict the findings??Speculation with possibilities is one position but to state with the following i find silly.

    He was a drug dealer and they were breaking in to steal his drugs.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Just take everything at face value and close the case? Is that how it should go from here?
    Not necessarily but to assume w/out waiting for the investigation? If the kid had drugs that would have come out instantly on the news.. perhaps as a "known" drug dealer or the neighbors would have said something, nothing is hidden now days.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    He was a drug dealer and they were breaking in to steal his drugs.


    I'll put $20 on that.

    I mean, what else does a 23 year old (the shooter) have that is so valuable that a woman will round up 3 guys to be thugs for her to rob him of?

    Too bad they brought a knife and brass knuckles to a gunfight?
    If not drugs then they probably came to steal guns. The guy had an AR, if you've got one of those, you've got more.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Something just seems off to me, so I posted about possibilities.

    Most of the other posters are so happy that a gun seemingly did something good for once that they aren't willing to look at the situation with a critical eye.
    Other posters may be in the loop of knowing where to look. You just won't see headline news and big media reporting the stories of crimes that are prevented, lives saved and attackers brushed off by those that have a healthy respect for the right thing to do and take on the responsibility to carry and make those calls.
    It's just not fashionable news by the dominate media and worse yet, it counters their arguments.

    Should crime stats in that neighborhood drop, you'll probably never hear that reported.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Just take everything at face value and close the case? Is that how it should go from here?




    Of course not, I'll let the O.C. decide the legalities and consequences. The hell with Investigators and Prosecutors.
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  38. #38
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    From the article:

    Mahoney said two of the deceased were considered armed. One had brass knuckles, he said. Another had a knife. Mahoney said the third suspect had not yet been searched by police.

    So this body is laying in the morgue possibly with a weapon in his pocket? Wouldn't they search him before he was zipped into a bodybag?
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  39. #39
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    From the article:
    So this body is laying in the morgue possibly with a weapon in his pocket? Wouldn't they search him before he was zipped into a bodybag?
    one would think so...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a big issue. If someone enters your house uninvited or worse, do you not have the right to protect yourself?...
    Depends on the state. California does not have a Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground. You are expected to to take the minimum actions to defend yourself or others. That means if someone armed comes in the front door, and you are able to escape out the back then you do not have the right to use deadly force.

    OTOH, despite the state law as written, different counties interpret the law differently. California is not all anti-gun. The liberal urban enclaves are. The rural counties are different. I know in my county the homeowner would be the Grand Marshall of the Independence Day Parade down Main Street. In San Francisco the criminals would have a public memorial service and the eulogy would be given by the Mayor, with the homeowner facing murder charges.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Depends on the state. California does not have a Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground. You are expected to to take the minimum actions to defend yourself or others. That means if someone armed comes in the front door, and you are able to escape out the back then you do not have the right to use deadly force.

    OTOH, despite the state law as written, different counties interpret the law differently. California is not all anti-gun. The liberal urban enclaves are. The rural counties are different. I know in my county the homeowner would be the Grand Marshall of the Independence Day Parade down Main Street. In San Francisco the criminals would have a public memorial service and the eulogy would be given by the Mayor, with the homeowner facing murder charges.
    Let's be honest.

    SYG allows for a crafty individual to commit legal murder. FL is about to take the insane step of making it such that prosecutor will have to prove that a person is not SYGing before it can go to trial, in the case of ANY violent crime. If Rick Scott signs the bill, FL's court system will be backlogged for years, and a lot of murderers are going to walk.



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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    They said the kid was worried about the "victims". No one has mentioned the driver, I think she is part of it and should get prosecuted as well. 3 counts of murder ouch! Play with fire, you are going to get burned..
    The driver is being brought up on capital murder for just being part of it. Did you all not see this in the article?

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  43. #43
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    Rush into my house like that and you have no chance of convincing me you are not a threat and will be dropped.

    Always fire until the clip is empty.

  44. #44
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    DJ, I meant no one in the thread had mentioned her, the focus was on the shooter and the 3 that once were.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Rush into my house like that and you have no chance of convincing me you are not a threat and will be dropped.

    Always fire until the clip is empty.

    Yup! It's a sad ending but you get what you ask for. As suggested above, hopefully some scumbags will read this story and become enlightened to the fact that this could have been them. Stop your ways and become an honest law abiding citizen and this won't happen.

    Breaking that window, kicking that door in, whatever your means of getting in, are you willing to gamble at whats waits on the other side. You may get away with it for awhile or maybe once. Are you willing to gamble with your life? Not worth it brother, act according to society's rules or pay the ultimate price one day.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Rush into my house like that and you have no chance of convincing me you are not a threat and will be dropped.

    Always fire until the clip is empty.
    damn straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yup! It's a sad ending but you get what you ask for. As suggested above, hopefully some scumbags will read this story and become enlightened to the fact that this could have been them. Stop your ways and become an honest law abiding citizen and this won't happen.

    Breaking that window, kicking that door in, whatever your means of getting in, are you willing to gamble at whats waits on the other side. You may get away with it for awhile or maybe once. Are you willing to gamble with your life? Not worth it brother, act according to society's rules or pay the ultimate price one day.
    i suspect more folks will find SYG regardless of state, county to be applicable. when a violation such as this takes place put um in your sights..........

    and a lill tid bit of updated news.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.a8df91ef408a

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    How do you defend against "I feared for my life!"?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Break in and pay the consequences.
    Yup. Bang! Bang bang bang!
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

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    So what did these people think would happen? I suppose they thought the three would bust in, threaten the guy and his son with brass knuckles and a knife until they told them where the money was and then take it? It didn't occur to them that the homeowner might have a gun? Or even some other way to defend against a knife? Did they not know the son lived there as well as the older guy? Looks like a big enough house that once you kick in the door, the homeowner has time to grab something to defend themselves before you get to him.

    But I guess that's the thing about most criminals, they aren't much in the way of thinkers.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    and a lill tid bit of updated news.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.a8df91ef408a
    "Affluent ... neighborhood."

    I wonder if these 3 chuckleheads thought the worst that might happen would be an 8 y.o. boy setting booby traps.
    Go Fact Yourself.

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    "Affluent ... neighborhood."

    I wonder if these 3 chuckleheads thought the worst that might happen would be an 8 y.o. boy setting booby traps.
    yea meet my wittle friend mr AR-15.

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    If someone comes in my house with a knife I would do the same thing. Only
    I would use my shotgun not an AR.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    If someone comes in my house with a knife I would do the same thing. Only
    I would use my shotgun not an AR.
    quite the mess to clean up, but i suspects that's an after thought.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    i suspect more folks will find SYG regardless of state, county to be applicable. when a violation such as this takes place put um in your sights..........

    and a lill tid bit of updated news.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.a8df91ef408a


    UPDATE: The getaway driver speaks out.


    https://gma.yahoo.com/dont-blame-him...opstories.html
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    not to sharp of a person is she. She could have just said the boys wanted a ride somewhere and when she heard gun shots she got scared. But that is what happens when you speak without a lawyer present.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    not to sharp of a person is she. She could have just said the boys wanted a ride somewhere and when she heard gun shots she got scared. But that is what happens when you speak without a lawyer present.
    whatever she receives sentence wise is deserved, but i do however applaud her for being accountable and owning her stuff.
    Last edited by nvphatty; 03-31-2017 at 02:23 PM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Depends on the state. California does not have a Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground. You are expected to to take the minimum actions to defend yourself or others. That means if someone armed comes in the front door, and you are able to escape out the back then you do not have the right to use deadly force.

    OTOH, despite the state law as written, different counties interpret the law differently. California is not all anti-gun. The liberal urban enclaves are. The rural counties are different. I know in my county the homeowner would be the Grand Marshall of the Independence Day Parade down Main Street. In San Francisco the criminals would have a public memorial service and the eulogy would be given by the Mayor, with the homeowner facing murder charges.
    Duty to Retreat....

    You actually have to try and figure out how to escape or getaway instead of defend or protect yourself, others or property.
    Pretty handy.

    Nutjob shows up; "Okay, I"m here now. You are legally bound to vacate the premises allowing me more time to gather all the goodies. "
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    Duty to Retreat....

    You actually have to try and figure out how to escape or getaway instead of defend or protect yourself, others or property.
    Pretty handy.

    Nutjob shows up; "Okay, I"m here now. You are legally bound to vacate the premises allowing me more time to gather all the goodies. "
    makes me glad i left Ca in 80 because i would then or now just as the 23yo did, drop them where they stand.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    makes me glad i left Ca in 80 because i would then or now just as the 23yo did, drop them where they stand.
    When I lived there I was ready and willing to drop any intruder. Shotgun beside my bed at all times.

    Let's see, here's my choices.

    Kill intruder go to jail.

    Don't kill intruder and end up dead myself.

    That law doesn't give the innocent much choice to do the right thing.

    On a side note, it feels good to now live in a state [Colorado] that protects the innocent person being victimized in their own home by means of lethal force.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    ^^^Several people that have been seriously mislead.

    (I'm waiting for the incoming "libtard", "snowflake", etc.)

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ^^^Several people that have been seriously mislead.

    (I'm waiting for the incoming "libtard", "snowflake", etc.)

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    I'm going to assume your ^^^ arrows weren't directed at me, even though one of my posts is right right above yours.

    I agree with some of the above responses are mislead up there.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I'm going to assume your ^^^ arrows weren't directed at me, even though one of my posts is right right above yours.

    I agree with some of the above responses are mislead up there.
    There is no duty to retreat in CA if you are in a place that you have a right to be, i.e., your home.

    CALJIC 5.50:

    A person threatened with an attack that justifies the exercise of the right of self-defense need not retreat. *In the exercise of his right of self-defense a person may stand his ground and defend himself by the use of all force and means which would appear to be necessary to a reasonable person in a similar situation and with similar knowledge; and a person may pursue his assailant until he has secured himself from danger if that course likewise appears reasonably necessary. This law applies even though the assailed person might more easily have gained safety by flight or by withdrawing from the scene. *

    The NRA and their stooges have mislead a LOT of people.

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There is no duty to retreat in CA if you are in a place that you have a right to be, i.e., your home.

    CALJIC 5.50:

    A person threatened with an attack that justifies the exercise of the right of self-defense need not retreat. *In the exercise of his right of self-defense a person may stand his ground and defend himself by the use of all force and means which would appear to be necessary to a reasonable person in a similar situation and with similar knowledge; and a person may pursue his assailant until he has secured himself from danger if that course likewise appears reasonably necessary. This law applies even though the assailed person might more easily have gained safety by flight or by withdrawing from the scene. *

    The NRA and their stooges have mislead a LOT of people.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Right, but if you shoot said intruder outside of the home it's conciderd murder in Ca. So if he comes in and stabs you then retreats, you get your wits about you enough to get armed and shoot him as he's retreating. Guess who gets nailed? The innocent resident minding his own business who was intruded upon.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Right, but if you shoot said intruder outside of the home it's conciderd murder in Ca. So if he comes in and stabs you then retreats, you get your wits about you enough to get armed and shoot him as he's retreating. Guess who gets nailed? The innocent resident minding his own business who was intruded upon.
    The law that I just posted would suggest otherwise, as would legal precedent.

    Can you pursue them in a car? No.

    Do you get to kill a person after they are incapacitated? No.



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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The law that I just posted would suggest otherwise, as would legal precedent.

    Can you pursue them in a car? No.

    Do you get to kill a person after they are incapacitated? No.



    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    There are some stipulations. The laws are so different from state to state. In the heat of the moment you better know the laws to the state you reside. I'll admit I need to learn the differences between the them. I know there was and is a case pending out of Denver that a guy defended his privacy rights and killed an intruder. Last I heard there was an issue because said intruder died outside of the victims home. I need to look more into this before I respond any further. I respect your knowledge and opinions on such in depth criminal laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    There are some stipulations. The laws are so different from state to state. In the heat of the moment you better know the laws to the state you reside. I'll admit I need to learn the differences between the them. I know there was and is a case pending out of Denver that a guy defended his privacy rights and killed an intruder. Last I heard there was an issue because said intruder died outside of the victims home. I need to look more into this before I respond any further. I respect your knowledge and opinions on such in depth criminal laws.
    FWIW, my wife is a lawyer, soon to be professor, and all of her friends are lawyers.

    I just ask them questions about things. All the time. For free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ...
    CALJIC 5.50:

    ...which would appear to be necessary to a reasonable person....
    THAT is the catch phrase. The local District Attorney will determine what is reasonable. The interpretation will vary widely from county to county.

    But remember -- this is that state that just made plastic bags illegal but decriminalized rape.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    THAT is the catch phrase. The local District Attorney will determine what is reasonable. The interpretation will vary widely from county to county.

    But remember -- this is that state that just made plastic bags illegal but decriminalized rape.
    Again. You've been mislead. Or you simply don't read very well. Show me precedent for ANYONE defending themselves being prosecuted.

    California actually expanded the legal definition of rape in the wake of the Brock Turner case. Quite the opposite of "decriminalization", eh?

    But, hey, keep posting your easily debunked tripe.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Again. You've been mislead. Or you simply don't read very well. Show me precedent for ANYONE defending themselves being prosecuted.

    California actually expanded the legal definition of rape in the wake of the Brock Turner case. Quite the opposite of "decriminalization", eh?

    But, hey, keep posting your easily debunked tripe.



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    I am glad you admit you are not informed and believe all the liberal vomit in the media and on the internet. Very few of your ilk have the courage to admit it.

    Proposition 57, which passed last November, made rape a non-violent crime. A list of other crimes, including assault with a deadly weapon, are now also non-violent. It passed because too many low-information voters like yourself let the liars in the liberal media tell you how to think. Too bad you did not take the time to read any of the propositions instead of letting the special interest 30 second sound bites control you.

    In the last ten years at least 16 people were prosecuted in California for the use of a weapon in self defense in a manner legal in other states. Not all were convicted, and not all got prison time, but still were prosecuted.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    I am glad you admit you are not informed and believe all the liberal vomit in the media and on the internet. Very few of your ilk have the courage to admit it.

    Proposition 57, which passed last November, made rape a non-violent crime. A list of other crimes, including assault with a deadly weapon, are now also non-violent. It passed because too many low-information voters like yourself let the liars in the liberal media tell you how to think. Too bad you did not take the time to read any of the propositions instead of letting the special interest 30 second sound bites control you.

    In the last ten years at least 16 people were prosecuted in California for the use of a weapon in self defense in a manner legal in other states. Not all were convicted, and not all got prison time, but still were prosecuted.
    No.

    Read the text of Prop 57 and tell me where "it makes rape a non-violent crime".

    https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/init...eform%29_1.pdf

    The resultant change to the California Constitution didn't state that either:

    SEC. 32. (a) The following provisions are hereby enacted to enhance public safety, improve rehabilitation, and avoid the release of prisoners by federal court order, notwithstanding anything in this article or any other provision of law: (1) Parole Consideration: Any person convicted of a nonviolent felony offense and sentenced to state prison shall be eligible for parole consideration after completing the full term for his or her primary offense. (A) For purposes of this section only, the full term for the primary offense means the longest term of imprisonment imposed by the court for any offense, excluding the imposition of an enhancement, consecutive sentence, or alternative sentence. (2) Credit Earning: The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation shall have authority to award credits earned for good behavior and approved rehabilitative or educational achievements. (b) The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation shall adopt regulations in furtherance of these provisions, and the Secretary of the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation shall certify that these regulations protect and enhance public safety.

    Nor did the California Penal Code's list of violent crimes change. It's the same as it's been since 1977.

    Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation

    Note that CA law has NEVER considered certain types of rape to be violent offenses, such as statutory rape, rape of an unconscious person, etc. Which, I agree, is messed up.

    But, if it didn't consider them to be violent offenses, Prop 57 couldn't have and didn't change them from violent to non-violent.

    Additionally, people convicted of "non-violent rape" were already eligible for parole much earlier than "violent rape", in addition to having shorter mandatory sentences.

    Come on, surely you can find a change to an actual law, right?

    Also, I love how you brandish the "liberal" card not once but twice, and then have no actual proof of anything at all. Too perfect, really. It's like you're doing your best to portray a woefully uninformed and angry voter who can't be bothered to actually read anything outside of your little comfort zone. Like actual ballot measures, the California Penal Code, etc. What's next, are you going to call me a "snowflake"?
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ^^^Several people that have been seriously mislead.

    (I'm waiting for the incoming "libtard", "snowflake", etc.)

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    You'll do wonders for population control when the Dangerous Thinking Bill is passed and justifiably countered with lethal force.

    Welcome to the U.S.A. !
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There is no duty to retreat in CA if you are in a place that you have a right to be, i.e., your home.

    CALJIC 5.50:

    A person threatened with an attack that justifies the exercise of the right of self-defense need not retreat. *In the exercise of his right of self-defense a person may stand his ground and defend himself by the use of all force and means which would appear to be necessary to a reasonable person in a similar situation and with similar knowledge; and a person may pursue his assailant until he has secured himself from danger if that course likewise appears reasonably necessary. This law applies even though the assailed person might more easily have gained safety by flight or by withdrawing from the scene. *

    The NRA and their stooges have mislead a LOT of people.

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    I didn't bother listing States specifically but at one time, I think Michigan had that rule. There are now approx 17 states that have "some form" of Duty to Retreat.

    Approx 24 States have this :
    Stand Your Ground: No duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property (home, office, etc.).

    and,

    Here is the wording for; Castle Doctrine: Limited to real property, such as your home, yard, or private office; no duty to retreat (use of deadly force against intruders is legal in most situations); some states, like Missouri and Ohio, even include personal vehicles.

    http://files.findlaw.com/pdf/crimina...round-laws.pdf
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The law that I just posted would suggest otherwise, as would legal precedent.

    Can you pursue them in a car? No.

    Do you get to kill a person after they are incapacitated? No.



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    The way the laws are written is comforting if you know them unless or until tested by case situations. Your word "pursue" is a good example.

    We had a case (Colorado Springs) where a guy was severely beaten down (bat , brass knuckles) in his own home after a big party. Even if acquitted of murder, manslaughter or ?? , you can still be held civilly liable in a separate case.

    The beaten victim was able to nearly catch up to the other party by the front porch, but the guy (culprit) got in his vehicle to leave.
    Guess who made a very accurate shoot, killing the other party as he was driving away?

    Not sure of the civil case outcome but he was acquitted even though the attack was over and he pursued the the party off his property. My point being, nobody here in this area knew how that case was going to go and it may have went different a week or month later.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    FWIW, my wife is a lawyer, soon to be professor, and all of her friends are lawyers.

    I just ask them questions about things. All the time. For free.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    ... and they offer opinions. Still, Free is Good !

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  75. #75
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    Here's the thing:

    There has to be a legal limit. Otherwise, three days from now, I could track down and kill the guy who tried to run me off the road (murder) while I was riding.

    At some point, it's not self defense, it's not standing my ground. It's murder. And, if the bar is set too low, you can use the law to justify murdering someone.







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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Here's the thing:

    There has to be a legal limit. Otherwise, three days from now, I could track down and kill the guy who tried to run me off the road (murder) while I was riding.

    At some point, it's not self defense, it's not standing my ground. It's murder. And, if the bar is set too low, you can use the law to justify murdering someone.







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    Yes.
    I think part of our community wanted that guy to be acquitted as if Sending a message so-to-speak. The other thought is it may entice another similar incident and then it begins to move the line in the sand.
    No two situations or nuances are exactly alike. I also believe the crime/violent crime history of a given community is a huge factor in how things play out.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    He was a drug dealer and they were breaking in to steal his drugs.

    I'll put $20 on that.

    I mean, what else does a 23 year old (the shooter) have that is so valuable that a woman will round up 3 guys to be thugs for her to rob him of?
    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    For you to think that it wasn't drugs or money is completely naive.
    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Did you ever consider that jumping to spurious conclusions isn't looking at it with a critical eye?
    of course not, JBB enjoys spouting off first and then makes no retraction or recant for his quick ASSumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    She was the "mastermind" behind the attempted robbery, without her talking the guys into it they would be alive..
    how did all this play out JBB?? Oh and send the $20 my way..

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    Oh and send the $20 my way..
    If you were so sure he wasn't dealing drugs you should have bet me, would have been an easy $20 in your pocket, but you lack conviction, and didn't bet me, so you lose.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    If you were so sure he wasn't dealing drugs you should have bet me, would have been an easy $20 in your pocket, but you lack conviction, and didn't bet me, so you lose.
    there in lies my point, i wasn't. as myself and others elude to making statements by spouting off as you did was/is your downfall. now do you have anything further to add about the shooting??

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    your downfall.
    Thread for a bunch of internet tough guys to posture on and on about how they would feel no remorse about killing a person, yet I have "the downfall"...

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Thread for a bunch of internet tough guys to posture on and on about how they would feel no remorse about killing a person, yet I have "the downfall"...
    pretty much

  82. #82
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    Place your bets: JB and NV.

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    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Place your bets: JB and NV.

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    I rarely read his posts, but they do show up when somebody quotes him, and I read his post here as it was obvious he was cross thread trolling, I think he's mad.

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    Alternate thread title; Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Thread for a bunch of internet tough guys to posture on and on about how they would feel no remorse about killing a person, yet I have "the downfall"...
    (Using your quote as related to the part about remorse)

    Over a few years of participating on forums related to an interest/hobby or something I wished to learn more about, I've tried the approach of being respectful and allowing some benefit of doubt and yet there are times when things just run afoul. It can a be a misunderstanding, poor wording that isn't clear or just some 'Knob' who is looking to pick everything apart and create drama.

    I've been there and personally, I'd rather defend my comments even if I have to edit them for clarity or fess up to being wrong if the case.
    That, opposed to being one that goes off full meltdown on someone's post and realize I read it wrong or I'm just dumping bitter criticism.

    What I do that has helped is try to be more clear in wording, offer sources or links ref some of the controversial matter so the relevance of my point is demonstrated by where I got my information. Other times, I qualify my thoughts such as....

    "If this is a drug dealer.... " "If this guy feared for his life ..... " or "If this guy just waits for any reason to shoot....."

    I'd feel the same about predicting no remorse for killing. Some know that answer because of past events they were involved with and experience or are absent remorse. It's easier for me to think of no remorse in some all out attack on my house or a family member but reality, details and nuances of many shootings are not always cut and dry.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    Alternate thread title; Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    chocolate chip cookies please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    chocolate chip cookies please.
    Man! I was hoping "brownies"
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    Not a chocolate chip fan, oatmeal raisin for me please.

  89. #89
    Cycologist
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    I'll take one of each, thank-you-very-much.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  90. #90
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    oatmeal raisin for me please.
    my 2nd choice.

  91. #91
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Oatmeal with dark chocolate chips and walnuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  92. #92
    Co Springs
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    These kind of cookies would

    Make My Day
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  95. #95
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    And then there’s always the chance the cops shoot the wrong person. Homeowner shoots and kills intruder. Cops arrive and go in and shoot and kill homeowner.

    https://kdvr.com/2018/07/30/aurora-p...der-in-aurora/

    Make my day..law.-b10d55e6-0ce5-47f4-ac11-1f912a7a38fb.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Place your bets: JB and NV.

    Name:  rockem_sockem_robots.gif
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    NV quit, I win!

  97. #97
    Rabid Lana Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And then there’s always the chance the cops shoot the wrong person. Homeowner shoots and kills intruder. Cops arrive and go in and shoot and kill homeowner.

    https://kdvr.com/2018/07/30/aurora-p...der-in-aurora/

    Click image for larger version. 

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    lol @ star warz dog
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    lol @ star warz dog
    I included that for you sci-fi nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  99. #99
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    And we have another one.

    Should get interesting to see the outcome of this.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/homeowner-...opstories.html
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Or: Stand your ground law.

    Break in and pay the consequences.

    Agree
    Or
    Not?

    https://gma.yahoo.com/killing-3-teen...opstories.html


    Edit: Update to this story for those behind on it.





    UPDATE: The getaway driver speaks out.


    https://gma.yahoo.com/dont-blame-him...opstories.html
    Absolutely agree. A lot of dead fools wishing they had been wiser that day.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    What do you believe was the reason the woman orchestrated the break in with 3 guys? That is, what was the motivation/reward for breaking into that specific house? A flat screen TV and an Ipad? Why not target a house where they know nobody is home if that is all they were after?
    According to the woman she thought the house had money and she thought no one was home. maybe you can tell us what she meant when she said that?


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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a big issue. If someone enters your house uninvited or worse, do you not have the right to protect yourself?

    It's a horrible outcome for these kids, but it's an inherent risk for being a criminal.
    Agreed. You may never find out what the teens (one is 19=adult) criminal past was because it isn’t supposed to be disclosed.


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