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  1. #1
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    homeless people in Toronto?how

    there is an increase number of homeless people in Toronto. the number has reach 8000 according to CBC news

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...onto-1.5400781

    people become homeless because they lost their jobs.


    Canada is a rich country but it is reluctant to help its own citizens yet politicians send millions to other countries.

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    It was 65* degrees yesterday and I had apple pie and cookies.

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    It's not only Toronto, most mid-large sized Cities have these issues.
    Yes, sometimes people fall on hard times, bad luck, lose jobs, etc. Some people choose a life of drugs (yes it's a choice in the beginning). Some have health or mental issues which is very sad.

    I don't give money to people panhandling at Street corners.

    I have volunteered at places like habitat for humanity

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    If people lived within their means and saved money in an emergency fund, many would be much better off when times get rough.

    My favorite is when people complain they never have money for anything, but they smoke.
    Hello?!?... Smoking, really?...
    A waste of money and cancer at the same time, oh baby!

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    Choose Carefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    If people lived within their means and saved money in an emergency fund, many would be much better off when times get rough.

    My favorite is when people complain they never have money for anything, but they smoke.
    Hello?!?... Smoking, really?...
    A waste of money and cancer at the same time, oh baby!
    Just full of Christmas spirit aren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    homeless people in Toronto?how.
    wow, you really a moron aren't you? i often wonder how darwin hasn't killed you yet...


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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    Just full of Christmas spirit aren't you?
    Haha sorry, didn't mean for it to come out like that.

    But some people just refuse to help themselves.

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    for real. i'd love to not have to work and just do what i want all day. but the reality is, knowing where i'm going to sleep and eat next is more important to me..


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    Homelessness is inversely proportional to how "good" the economy is.

    Most people think public assistance, regardless of how much money that is, is just fine as long as it goes to people who already have enormous amounts of money.

    Some jackass here spent $35,000,000 to "research" homelessness in our area. Seems to me like that would either buy a lot of homeless people homes, or it would line a few researchers pockets, but who knows.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Haha sorry, didn't mean for it to come out like that.

    But some people just refuse to help themselves.
    Most of those people are simply unable to help themselves. Do a little research on the problem and you might find that the great majority have the system skewed against any attempt to get work. If you need to go to an interview and live on the street, the best intended will struggle to smarten up enough. A great many people are unable to work thru mental or physical disability, and do not have the support structure many of us enjoy with family and/or friends, neither is help provided by public bodies anything like adequate to cope in these times. As for drug and alcohol users making that choice, again do a little research and maybe find out that those addicted to various substances do not have a choice in fighting that disease. There are addicts and there are non-addicts. You are lucky enough to likely be amongst the latter group, but please try and understand that those unluckier than you do not enjoy the same diversity of choice you think they do, based on what you feel yourself.
    Living within means and saving something in an emergency fund is impossible for the millions of Americans living on minimum wage from paycheck to paycheck. Then maybe get an illness without adequate insurance coverage, and bingo, you're on the street... I too volunteer at various food banks and shelters, and seldom see people who are unwilling to help themselves if they only had a chance.
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    i live in los angeles which has a huge homeless population. i interact with the homeless on almost a daily basis and know hundreds of them. almost every one of them is self inflicted due to drug use and don't want help. sure there are the legitimately mentally ill ones also, but most of the "meltally ill" homeless have lost their minds from years of drug addiction...


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    i live in los angeles which has a huge homeless population. i interact with the homeless on almost a daily basis and know hundreds of them. almost every one of them is self inflicted due to drug use and don't want help. sure there are the legitimately mentally ill ones also, but most of the "meltally ill" homeless have lost their minds from years of drug addiction...
    "Meltally ill". That's rich.

    You should see Oakland.

    homeless people in Toronto?how-iu.jpg

    homeless people in Toronto?how-iu-2.jpg

    homeless people in Toronto?how-iu-3.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    "Meltally ill". That's rich.

    You should see Oakland.
    It's all good now, we got rid of the Raiders. That's Las Vegas problem now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    It's all good now, we got rid of the Raiders. That's Las Vegas problem now
    First the Raiders, now Oracle. Doesn't sound like Vegas is doing too badly.
    tRump is SCUM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    i live in los angeles which has a huge homeless population. i interact with the homeless on almost a daily basis and know hundreds of them. almost every one of them is self inflicted due to drug use and don't want help. sure there are the legitimately mentally ill ones also, but most of the "meltally ill" homeless have lost their minds from years of drug addiction...
    Healthy people dont start using drugs. We have very little help before things get out of hand.

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    For some, the "bad choice" they made was to join the military. They got deployed and re-deployed until they were too broken to fight anymore, then got discarded by the Army onto the streets.
    Many of them are homeless, many are on drugs.

    Our veterans deserve better than this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Healthy people dont start using drugs. We have very little help before things get out of hand.
    What do you class as a 'healthy' person? Many drug users started by being prescribed opiates as painkillers. Many too got a little too familiar with the afternoon martini, and then suffered a setback of some kind, and wham.
    To write off this problem because someone might perceive that they do not want to help themselves is short-sighted, lacking in compassion, and plain wrong. We have to do a great deal more to get these people off the streets and into worthwhile care. Drug rehab, work programs and housing supply are all of paramount importance and should be funded at the Federal level.
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    What do you class as a 'healthy' person? Many drug users started by being prescribed opiates as painkillers. Many too got a little too familiar with the afternoon martini, and then suffered a setback of some kind, and wham.
    To write off this problem because someone might perceive that they do not want to help themselves is short-sighted, lacking in compassion, and plain wrong. We have to do a great deal more to get these people off the streets and into worthwhile care. Drug rehab, work programs and housing supply are all of paramount importance and should be funded at the Federal level.
    Many, actually most, people who get pain killers use them as directed. But obviously some dont. When I tore my shoulder I was given 2 full bottles of hydrocodone before I finished half of the first! I declined them, but I firmly believe there IS a reason why some don't.

    Same with drinking. I quit drinking 5 years ago. I didn't drink daily because things were going awesome in life. Its just a hell of an easy way to avoid literally anything wrong.

    I didnt suggest writing off the problem, im saying the opposite. We do need to care for those who are homeless, and we need to prevent a future generation from getting there to begin with.

    It can take up to 2 months to get a mental health appointment here. If you call the cops when its been building for months, you get one that day though. Thats awful. If your life is so stressful that drinking daily seems good, theres little assistance until its a major problem, etc etc.

    Someone at some point needs to address that giving the richest people all the opportunity and money isnt good for a significant amount of people. $50k annually basically means you're living on the street in some places, and many people dont make even close to that and just rely on their area not booming with a "good" economy. Its a time bomb.

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    look what picard started. does he get paid per post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Many, actually most, people who get pain killers use them as directed. But obviously some dont. When I tore my shoulder I was given 2 full bottles of hydrocodone before I finished half of the first! I declined them, but I firmly believe there IS a reason why some don't.
    Sounds like you didn't take your pills as directed, you stopped early. Might you have become addicted merely by following the doctor's instructions and continuing to taking the prescribed medication?

    We also see the opposite problem, people in pain being denied prescription painkillers because they might abuse them, then being forced to turn to the street for relief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Many, actually most, people who get pain killers use them as directed. But obviously some dont. When I tore my shoulder I was given 2 full bottles of hydrocodone before I finished half of the first! I declined them, but I firmly believe there IS a reason why some don't.

    Same with drinking. I quit drinking 5 years ago. I didn't drink daily because things were going awesome in life. Its just a hell of an easy way to avoid literally anything wrong.

    I didnt suggest writing off the problem, im saying the opposite. We do need to care for those who are homeless, and we need to prevent a future generation from getting there to begin with.

    It can take up to 2 months to get a mental health appointment here. If you call the cops when its been building for months, you get one that day though. Thats awful. If your life is so stressful that drinking daily seems good, theres little assistance until its a major problem, etc etc.

    Someone at some point needs to address that giving the richest people all the opportunity and money isnt good for a significant amount of people. $50k annually basically means you're living on the street in some places, and many people dont make even close to that and just rely on their area not booming with a "good" economy. Its a time bomb.
    There's a lot wrong with a country that does little to address the major issue this is becoming. causes of addiction are many, but most often one sees a pattern of physical or mental abuse early in life that was no fault of the person suffering. Our society has become far too uncaring of those less fortunate. There are all too few effective initiatives from legislators, and too much is left up to private individuals. A time bomb indeed. So much wrong.
    Sorry, but this is a huge concern for me having been in a similar position myself when I was very young. No fun not having a warm place to sleep.
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  24. #24
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    Not all homeless people are lazy, insane, or addicts. Toronto is a very large (expensive city) Social services and programs to help underprivedged are the first things cut when money is needed to fund other (profitable) interests. There is an 11 year waitlist for affordable housing.

    What is the best thing that an average person can do to help the homeless? In the long term: The best thing you can do to create actual change is support policies that are going to tackle the roots of the homelessness problem - better mental health care, affordable housing, evidence-based substance use treatment, etc. The sad thing (and I say this as someone who has worked in the field) is that non-profits do their best but the system as it is really is just a bandaid on a bullet hole.

    In the short term: Join non-profits that advocate and put political pressure on politicians and developers to invest in affordable housing. Campaign for candidates who will advocate for these policies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    Not all homeless people are lazy, insane, or addicts. Toronto is a very large (expensive city) Social services and programs to help underprivedged are the first things cut when money is needed to fund other (profitable) interests. There is an 11 year waitlist for affordable housing.

    What is the best thing that an average person can do to help the homeless? In the long term: The best thing you can do to create actual change is support policies that are going to tackle the roots of the homelessness problem - better mental health care, affordable housing, evidence-based substance use treatment, etc. The sad thing (and I say this as someone who has worked in the field) is that non-profits do their best but the system as it is really is just a bandaid on a bullet hole.

    In the short term: Join non-profits that advocate and put political pressure on politicians and developers to invest in affordable housing. Campaign for candidates who will advocate for these policies.
    Good sense... I wholeheartedly agree.
    It's all Here. Now.

  26. #26
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    I’m guessing someone pulled a Las Vegas and gave those 8,000 new Toronto folks a one way bus ticket from San Jose.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    Not all homeless people are lazy, insane, or addicts. Toronto is a very large (expensive city) Social services and programs to help underprivedged are the first things cut when money is needed to fund other (profitable) interests. There is an 11 year waitlist for affordable housing.

    What is the best thing that an average person can do to help the homeless? In the long term: The best thing you can do to create actual change is support policies that are going to tackle the roots of the homelessness problem - better mental health care, affordable housing, evidence-based substance use treatment, etc. The sad thing (and I say this as someone who has worked in the field) is that non-profits do their best but the system as it is really is just a bandaid on a bullet hole.

    In the short term: Join non-profits that advocate and put political pressure on politicians and developers to invest in affordable housing. Campaign for candidates who will advocate for these policies.
    How’s that working out in SanFrancisco?
    Los Angeles?
    Countless other places where People trusted politicians to do their work for them?
    A good read of Gretchen Morgenson is all that is required to see clearly what happens when the above “prescription” is instituted.
    The result?
    The sub-prime Mortgage Crisis....
    https://www.amazon.com/Reckless-Enda...s=books&sr=1-3

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    How’s that working out in SanFrancisco?
    Los Angeles?
    Countless other places where People trusted politicians to do their work for them?
    A good read of Gretchen Morgenson is all that is required to see clearly what happens when the above “prescription” is instituted.
    The result?
    The sub-prime Mortgage Crisis....
    https://www.amazon.com/Reckless-Enda...7484123&sr=8-1
    Totally whack
    Money lending and mortgage bundling gone wild is/was the cause

    It’s working out pretty well for Finland. Except they went a step further. They gave people a place to call home before they were well enough to pay for it
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Totally whack
    Money lending and mortgage bundling gone wild is/was the cause

    It’s working out pretty well for Finland. Except they went a step further. They gave people a place to call home before they were well enough to pay for it
    You read the book?
    There is much much more to it than how it ended.
    How it began.
    It began exactly as described in the referenced prescription.
    Probably well beyond your grasp though Meat.
    Educate yourself because when you simply parrot simplistic talking points from CNN and such it makes you look foolish to those who know better.
    Here, I’ll make it easy for you....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB8ZtnAJeww

    Now I realize that 58 minutes is about 56 beyond your attention span without special effects, but if you can make it through just the first few minutes, you might learn something.
    This Lady isn’t some political hack, left or right.
    She is a valid, reliable investigative reporter.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    You read the book?
    There is much much more to it than how it ended.
    How it began.
    It began exactly as described in the referenced prescription.
    Probably well beyond your grasp though Meat.
    Educate yourself because when you simply parrot simplistic talking points from CNN and such it makes you look foolish to those who know better.
    Here, I’ll make it easy for you....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB8ZtnAJeww
    Cycleicious said nothing about mortgages or the likes.
    You said “ above prescription” , and since the topic was on how ppl on prescriptions get addicted thought you were drawing a line between prescription drugs and mortgages gone wild. Which is a stretch, even for you.
    I said the cause was/is money lending and mortgage bundling gone wild. Which in hindsight is hard to argue with, and what your linked book pretty much says, and would think is common knowledge at this point
    Round and round we go

  31. #31
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    And if you could stop adding to a post after it was already responded to, and with the childish name calling and weak ego bs, it would be appreciated
    Round and round we go

  32. #32
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    Here Meat.
    Specifically, in the interest of clarity.....

    “In the short term: Join non-profits that advocate and put political pressure on politicians and developers to invest in affordable housing. Campaign for candidates who will advocate for these policies.”

    After reading the above quote, listen to the first few minutes of the interview in the C-Span link....
    Should be CRYSTAL clear by then.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    And if you could stop adding to a post after it was already responded to, and with the childish name calling and weak ego bs, it would be appreciated
    See “Totally Whacked”......Your FIRST two words to me in reply.
    You set the tone between us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Here Meat.
    Specifically, in the interest of clarity.....

    “In the short term: Join non-profits that advocate and put political pressure on politicians and developers to invest in affordable housing. Campaign for candidates who will advocate for these policies.”

    After reading the above quote, listen to the first few minutes of the interview in the C-Span link....
    Should be CRYSTAL clear by then.....
    Thanks for your Peter Pan advice/words of wisdom.
    Short sighted. Less money in politics is the answer, not more.
    And the rules clearly say no politics. Try to show some self control
    Round and round we go

  35. #35
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    Maybe it makes me less of a person, but homeless animals bother me more than homeless ppl
    Round and round we go

  36. #36
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    Fukk me, give it a rest please. OZ we know where your sympathy lies, and many of us completely disagree with your take on all this. Simple as that. It's pointless to argue the toss here. You're wrong, we're right
    It's all Here. Now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    See “Totally Whacked”......Your FIRST two words to me in reply.
    You set the tone between us.
    Yes. I said your post was totally whack. Did not call you totally whack.
    Also, as stated, thought you were drawing a line between prescription drugs and mortgage collapse.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Fukk me, give it a rest please. OZ we know where your sympathy lies, and many of us completely disagree with your take on all this. Simple as that. It's pointless to argue the toss here. You're wrong, we're right
    And so it goes......
    All that SJW preaching didn’t hold up too well.
    Y’all need a rest, take it.

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    Nearly half of the U.S.’s homeless people live in one state: California

    “As for state homelessness rates, the District of Columbia has the highest in the country, at 5.8 times the U.S. rate. New York is next, followed by Hawaii, Oregon and California. These five states together comprise 20% of the overall U.S. population but 45% of the country’s homeless population.“

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...-us-2019-09-18

    There is a trend here, a pretty obvious one.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Nearly half of the U.S.’s homeless people live in one state: California

    “As for state homelessness rates, the District of Columbia has the highest in the country, at 5.8 times the U.S. rate. New York is next, followed by Hawaii, Oregon and California. These five states together comprise 20% of the overall U.S. population but 45% of the country’s homeless population.“

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...-us-2019-09-18

    There is a trend here, a pretty obvious one.
    Yes. The trend is housing costs sore, and wages have not.
    Add to that addictions, sickness, family matters, job lost or any other issue that may find a person down on their luck, and no sh!t, ppl will gravitate to places that will help them, or with moderate temps. Ah da.
    Round and round we go

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    And so it goes......
    All that SJW preaching didn’t hold up too well.
    Y’all need a rest, take it.
    Exactly what I intend. You bore the crap out of me, along with all the other muppets who have no discernible empathy gene.
    It's all Here. Now.

  42. #42
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    A friend who is college educated, smart, hard working and ambitious...
    Out on a bike ride. Falls down brakes a leg knocks out a few teeth and passes out. Wakes up in hospital being rushed into surgery for leg. Not quite a week later is out of hospital and in debt for 148,000 dollars. Had no insurance. The next few years he was unable to work steady and pay his mortgage. I took him in for a couple of months to help him get on his feet. Along with others gave him $. He is now renting an apartment and dealing with debt and depression. Which can lead to other problems. If he was any less of a man, or had any less help from friends and family he’d either be homeless, addicted to something, or have committed suicide. If this can happen to him it can happen to anyone.
    The biggest thing that Finland has done right to improve it’s homelessness is making ppl feel like they have someone and something they can turn to for help. Not the opposite as some up in here would have others believe.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Exactly what I intend. You bore the crap out of me, along with all the other muppets who have no discernible empathy gene.
    Good.
    I find your predictability a bit tedious as well.
    Usually why I skip over most of your posts.
    Try that with mine.

    You assume too much from a few internet posts anyway.
    Some folks simply don’t pimp their empathy online as a matter of routine.
    Your prerogative.

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    He’s not assuming anything. You make it obvious

    Oh. You changed your post after it was responded to, again. Yawn

    Jeeze you did it again. That’s twice since I posted the first sentence.
    Round and round we go

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    Try to keep up Meat.
    It’ll be here for awhile....
    Everyone ain’t in it for post count....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    I’m guessing someone pulled a Las Vegas and gave those 8,000 new Toronto folks a one way bus ticket from San Jose.
    Dang you are onto us!

    Isn't there a already a big thread on the homeless problem??
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    some weird crazed desert dweller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    A friend who is college educated, smart, hard working and ambitious...
    Out on a bike ride. Falls down brakes a leg knocks out a few teeth and passes out. Wakes up in hospital being rushed into surgery for leg. Not quite a week later is out of hospital and in debt for 148,000 dollars. Had no insurance. The next few years he was unable to work steady and pay his mortgage. I took him in for a couple of months to help him get on his feet. Along with others gave him $. He is now renting an apartment and dealing with debt and depression. Which can lead to other problems. If he was any less of a man, or had any less help from friends and family he’d either be homeless, addicted to something, or have committed suicide. If this can happen to him it can happen to anyone.
    The biggest thing that Finland has done right to improve it’s homelessness is making ppl feel like they have someone and something they can turn to for help. Not the opposite as some up in here would have others believe.
    No insurance.

    So, not that smart, then.
    tRump is SCUM.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    No insurance.

    So, not that smart, then.
    Lol. If that’s your take away...
    Most ppl, even with insurance, have to pay a potion out of pocket, which can be a game changer for many.
    He had insurance for himself and a handful of workers that was financially straining his small and growing biz. Turns out that the insurance company would not pay because they claimed he had a pre existing condition that he did not disclose. This was pre Obama care act. Because they took his payments for years, and thousands on a lawyer, after years of fighting later, and somewhere along the line Obama care kicked in, he was able to dig out from under around 90k of that debt with lawyer fees tallied in.
    But nice judgement call
    Round and round we go

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I didnt suggest writing off the problem, im saying the opposite. We do need to care for those who are homeless, and we need to prevent a future generation from getting there to begin with.

    Someone at some point needs to address that giving the richest people all the opportunity and money isnt good for a significant amount of people. $50k annually basically means you're living on the street in some places, and many people dont make even close to that and just rely on their area not booming with a "good" economy. Its a time bomb.

    There are many, many different people that are homeless. Yes many do drugs, one dude smoked crack right in front of me when I rode by a few months ago. I was like, jeez I really didn't need to see that. Many of them are crazy and need to be institutionalized. But a lot of them just gave up. Here in Southern California you can make more money panhandling than you can working at Walmart or some fast food joint. Whenever I go through a drive-through I feel like telling the people who work there "Thank you for working to make $70 a day", because it's so easy just to sit on the street corner all day and make $150 cash with no taxes. This homeless thing is completely unacceptable, it doesn't even matter how they got there, it has to end. This is not what a developed country is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be "Oh, I have all the money and you are a loser, you lost at the game of life and climbing the corporate ladder". That's England 300 years ago during the start of the industrial revolution. That's a banana republic where about 6 families own all of the major industries. It's not supposed to be that way in the US or Canada, or any other developed country.
    40% of the population doesn't even understand what a dictatorship is. Or worse...far worse...they don't care.

  50. #50
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    You can’t solve the homeless problem by looking at it as a homeless problem.
    Homelessness is a common symptom of varied problems.
    If you put every homeless person in a house today you didn’t solve the problem.
    Not by a long shot.
    It ain’t that simple.
    Expecting to get a politician to dream up a policy that solves the problem is Fool’s Gold.
    Making people a product of Political policy is short sighted.

    People are each other’s personal responsibility.

    In January 2018, 552,830 people were counted as homeless in the United States. Of those, 194,467 (35 percent) were unsheltered, and 358,363 (65 percent) were sheltered. The overall homeless population on a single night represents 0.2 percent of the U.S. population, or 17 people per 10,000 in the population.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...in-America.pdf

  51. #51
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    Putting every homeless person in a house is solving the problem in Finland. Where all other eu countries have a growing homeless population. As Finland did until the adopted their housing first policy.
    So it would seem you are wrong

    Thinking that gov helping or housing homeless ppl is shortsighted is shortsighted. Since it likely costs more thro emergency room care, police, and general crappyness in areas with lotsa homeless, that would otherwise be nicer and more desirable/valuable without them.
    So it seems you’re wrong again
    Round and round we go

  52. #52
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    Simply consider any future post of mine beneath your intellect and move on Meat.
    I am a waste of your talent.

  53. #53
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    My talents are not wasted and they don’t take place on the internet. But thanx for your concern.
    Discussion with ppl that disagree with you should be a good thing. If you don’t let your ego get in the way and take it personal. Let’s see what you got. I think you can do it
    Round and round we go

  54. #54
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    You haven’t examined anything I offered.
    You personalized every reply and never addressed any item I offered as evidence for my position.
    You didn’t offer a single comment on the book, its author, any of the content, any of the history of Fannie or Freddy, Glass- Steagal, any of that.
    Like Rocker you simply made your replies an indictment of personal politics, rather than refute the evidence.
    I’ll leave you two to it.
    The insults aren’t that witty, creative, or amusing....
    .

  55. #55
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    Living in San Diego I see a shit load of homeless Vets. Now that is a shame. If anyone deserves
    help, its them, and a lot aren't getting it.

  56. #56
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    I didn’t bring politics into it, you did. I did comment on the book. Said it should be common knowledge at this point. So it seems you’re wrong, again.
    In 2007/8 it would have could have should have opened a lot of eyes. When it came out in 2011 it sold some books.
    I agreed with the summary of it. Except believe it was more greed and politicians being bought and controlled, and less politicians wanting more ppl to own homes.


    Why do you make everything political up in here?
    Round and round we go

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    Living in San Diego I see a shit load of homeless Vets. Now that is a shame. If anyone deserves
    help, its them, and a lot aren't getting it.
    Couldn’t agree more. Police suicides going up like crazy too.
    Round and round we go

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    “Why do you make everything political up in here?“

    I didn’t.
    I responded to Posts #24 and #25.
    Read them for clarity.

    Or not.

  59. #59
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    Post #24 makes sense to me. .#25 simply agreed with it. Cyclicious is almost always lighthearted and fun loving and her posts reflect that. Can’t remember the last time I read even a hint of political from her. The post reads to me as realistic solutions to the problem. Would think being a bright open minded Canadian she could offer some insight, on which is the topic.
    Your posts are almost always the opposite of that, and almost always political. If you don’t see that you can’t and won’t and btw it seems you’re wrong again
    Round and round we go

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    I’m not criticizing her at all.
    She’s the Best.
    Simple as that.
    I disagree with the effectiveness of her solution.
    I pointed out, as a direct reply to your exact words asking why I made everything political here, the two posts refuting your assertion.

    You’re punching Air here and it has become tedious.

  61. #61
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    Ok. I will bow to that. You didn’t make it political in this singular instance. Doesn’t change my point, which you ignored
    Round and round we go

  62. #62
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    My current renovation is a home recently bought by an emergency care doctor. He’s in his late 30s and has been a doctor for around 10 years. He makes a butt ton of money and is leaving the medical field. The reason he is leaving is because hospitals are becoming a place for ppl that have nowhere else to go. They regularly let people stay even after treated if it’s too cold because if they discharge them they know they will only return with more/new issues. In a country as wealthy as ours or others this is sickening and fixable. If you don’t see that and see that gov must play a role in this. Then you don’t understand the role gov plays and are selfish and shortsighted. It’s that simple
    Round and round we go

  63. #63
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    I see a future where any quality education will be privately funded. Any real security will be in gated communities with privately funded police. Fire service etc., to follow. Healthcare will belong to the rich and bankrupt the rest. People will work increasingly long hours at mind numbing jobs while their money buys less leaving zero resources to satiate the soul. Middle class gone but more billionaires and millionaires. Toxic food, medicine, building materials, textiles, air, and water. Crumbling infrastructure, waning empathy towards your fellow man, evermore programming to worship wealth, fame, materialism, and one-upmanship. Oh wait, that's now.

    We need a full 180°societal paradigm shift. Ain't gonna happen.

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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I see a future where any quality education will be privately funded. Any real security will be in gated communities with privately funded police. Fire service etc., to follow. Healthcare will belong to the rich and bankrupt the rest. People will work increasingly long hours at mind numbing jobs while their money buys less leaving zero resources to satiate the soul. Middle class gone but more billionaires and millionaires. Toxic food, medicine, building materials, textiles, air, and water. Crumbling infrastructure, waning empathy towards your fellow man, evermore programming to worship wealth, fame, materialism, and one-upmanship. Oh wait, that's now.

    We need a full 180°societal paradigm shift. Ain't gonna happen.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    I was reading and thinking you were describing now! Then I got "wait, that's now'... so true. There is a lot we can do to change all this, same as many other countries are doing. But, the US as a whole is no longer interested in caring for its own it seems. That is the shift that needs to be made. People are the most important resource, ALL people.
    It's all Here. Now.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I see a future where any quality education will be privately funded. Any real security will be in gated communities with privately funded police. Fire service etc., to follow. Healthcare will belong to the rich and bankrupt the rest. People will work increasingly long hours at mind numbing jobs while their money buys less leaving zero resources to satiate the soul. Middle class gone but more billionaires and millionaires. Toxic food, medicine, building materials, textiles, air, and water. Crumbling infrastructure, waning empathy towards your fellow man, evermore programming to worship wealth, fame, materialism, and one-upmanship. Oh wait, that's now.

    We need a full 180°societal paradigm shift. Ain't gonna happen.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    Good stuff
    Except believe it will happen. But it will have to get worse before it gets better.
    Round and round we go

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    i often wonder how darwin hasn't killed you yet...
    Hold it... Darwin is a murderer?
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

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    “Crumbling infrastructure, waning empathy towards your fellow man, evermore programming to worship wealth, fame, materialism, and one-upmanship. Oh wait, that's now.“

    I see your points.
    Clearly.
    Daily.
    But I’m optimistic....
    I’ve seen the opposite.
    Clearly.
    Daily.

    https://www.stjude.org/

  68. #68
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    “But, the US as a whole is no longer interested in caring for its own it seems. That is the shift that needs to be made. People are the most important resource, ALL people.“


    I agree with the Last Sentence.
    The other part, well not so much.....
    https://www.rawhide.org/blog/infogra...le-giving-map/

    THE U.S. IS THE MOST GENEROUS NATION IN THE WORLD. COLLECTIVELY, AMERICANS GAVE A WORLD RECORD $373 BILLION IN 2016. BUT NOT ALL STATES ARE CREATED EQUALLY.

    Here’s an Empathy Map.....

  69. #69
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    Depending on the kindness of others ...

    Let em eat cake!
    Round and round we go

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Depending on the kindness of others ...

    Let em eat cake!
    Coerced Empathy.
    Force the other guy to give them his cake.....

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Coerced Empathy.
    Force the other guy to give them his cake.....
    You mean like corporate welfare, bailing out banks, wallstreet, and a tax system that keeps the power structure in place? War for profit, exploiting child, slave, and incarcerated labor for profiteering? A level playing field is an illusion as it's pitched steeply toward the top. There's a difference between optimism and cherry picking to support a world view.

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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    You mean like corporate welfare, bailing out banks, wallstreet, and a tax system that keeps the power structure in place? War for profit, exploiting child, slave, and incarcerated labor for profiteering? A level playing field is an illusion as it's pitched steeply toward the top. There's a difference between optimism and cherry picking to support a world view.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    Cherry picking?
    St. Jude?
    The Map of the whole Country?
    373 Billion in the U.S. in 2016 alone in charitable contributions is “ cherry picking “ ?

    As for the items you listed....
    Every venture on the planet attracts its share of leeches. No playing field has ever been level. I’m not sure who even coined that phrase. A level playing field is stagnant. The competition is the only thing that make the game work at all....

  73. #73
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    barely willing to wade into this but I'd venture to guess that Utah is so high is because of the tithing. You might be giving money away but if you think that's charity there's a bridge I'd like to sell you...right over the great salt lake too. Basically, I'm saying this is suspect.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    “But, the US as a whole is no longer interested in caring for its own it seems. That is the shift that needs to be made. People are the most important resource, ALL people.“


    I agree with the Last Sentence.
    The other part, well not so much.....
    https://www.rawhide.org/blog/infogra...le-giving-map/

    THE U.S. IS THE MOST GENEROUS NATION IN THE WORLD. COLLECTIVELY, AMERICANS GAVE A WORLD RECORD $373 BILLION IN 2016. BUT NOT ALL STATES ARE CREATED EQUALLY.

    Here’s an Empathy Map.....
    So that's alright then! No problem here! Bully for us all. Shame there is little help for those that really need it... Oh wait, they're all drug addicts and don't want help...
    It's all Here. Now.

  75. #75
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    As for St Jude, I love what they do and have supported them for a dozen years now. I just wish they would stop sending me the sticker packs and notepads. I have asked them repeatedly to save their money, but there seems to be a disconnect there!
    It's all Here. Now.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Cherry picking?
    St. Jude?
    The Map of the whole Country?
    373 Billion in the U.S. in 2016 alone in charitable contributions is “ cherry picking “ ?

    As for the items you listed....
    Every venture on the planet attracts its share of leeches. No playing field has ever been level. I’m not sure who even coined that phrase. A level playing field is stagnant. The competition is the only thing that make the game work at all....
    Out of your depth, and it shows
    Round and round we go

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    As for St Jude, I love what they do and have supported them for a dozen years now. I just wish they would stop sending me the sticker packs and notepads. I have asked them repeatedly to save their money, but there seems to be a disconnect there!
    You are doing it.
    If you ever get the chance you should visit.
    Some of the greatest perspective you can get on what Love really means.
    Simply look into the faces of the Parents.
    It’s all written in their eyes.

    Have you tried this number regarding stickers and pads?
    800- 822-6344

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    barely willing to wade into this but I'd venture to guess that Utah is so high is because of the tithing. You might be giving money away but if you think that's charity there's a bridge I'd like to sell you...right over the great salt lake too. Basically, I'm saying this is suspect.
    Good point.
    But it probably does not negate the relative comparison.
    The other argument against what I posted would be what portion of Taxes would be considered charity. Mississippi obviously benefits from federal dollars filtered from California and New York.

    My point is there is reasonable evidence to justify optimism.
    The USA certainly isn’t as selfish as some posts here would lead one to believe....

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    “But, the US as a whole is no longer interested in caring for its own it seems. That is the shift that needs to be made. People are the most important resource, ALL people.“


    I agree with the Last Sentence.
    The other part, well not so much.....
    https://www.rawhide.org/blog/infogra...le-giving-map/

    THE U.S. IS THE MOST GENEROUS NATION IN THE WORLD. COLLECTIVELY, AMERICANS GAVE A WORLD RECORD $373 BILLION IN 2016. BUT NOT ALL STATES ARE CREATED EQUALLY.

    Here’s an Empathy Map.....
    Let's make it perfectly clear:

    "Giving", for the purposes of this map, was defined as something that included a compulsory tithe to a religious organization that, should the household fail to comply, will not grant a "recommend" to enter the temple. That same religious organization is under investigation by the IRS for using their one hundred billion dollar charitable fund to bail out privately held businesses.
    Death from Below.

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    “Something that included”

    No problem acceding that.
    The link addresses that if memory serves.
    The map certainly is not limited to “compulsory tithes”.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...ml?arc404=true

  81. #81
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    I like bikes.

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    I like bikes.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    You have any cool wood working projects going on right now?

    My wife MAY be about to make me the Morris chair she's been promising me since we started dating back in 2011.
    Death from Below.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    You have any cool wood working projects going on right now?

    My wife MAY be about to make me the Morris chair she's been promising me since we started dating back in 2011.
    Nothing worth mentioning. Replaced the fireplace mantle with a really nice piece of cherry. That's about it...
    I'm planning another Pennsylvania Rifle (another Early Lancaster School), but the funding has to come first. And that's not happening till I finish my bike build. Priorities.

    Post pics of that Morris Chair when she finishes it.

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    here is SoCal things are rather outta hand say in Los Angles... the homeless pop numbers I saw say upto 60,000 people.. WTH??

    happily I don't live in the city (about 30~miles outside it~) but it is a sh*t show in many neighborhoods were people working paying high rents/mortgages have homeless right outside there homes, making a mess, noise and creating a dangerous environment..

    I'm not sure what the solution is but... it is a disaster for the homeless and the people having to deal with the consequences of the it..

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    You are doing it.
    If you ever get the chance you should visit.
    Some of the greatest perspective you can get on what Love really means.
    Simply look into the faces of the Parents.
    It’s all written in their eyes.

    Have you tried this number regarding stickers and pads?
    800- 822-6344
    My daughter had a cancer scare when she was quite young, so I have an inkling of how that can affect a parent. It tears you apart, and somewhere like St Judes is often a literal life saver. Long may they continue the good work.
    I doubt I shall live long enough to see, but I also hope such places become a norm, without the need for public support from only those that care. The jockeying for our donation dollars has become a shit-show, and each week I get dozens upon dozens of letters and calls trying hard to pry more money from me. Between animal welfare, human welfare and the protection of our environment, there are a LOT of things I would like to help with, but I have to be selective because I don't own a money tree.
    It's all Here. Now.

  86. #86
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    This thread makes it pretty clear that one group of ppl are led to believe that the care of ppl should be through the kindness and giving of other ppl. And another group led to believe that is a function of gov. That brainwashing is working well, and that divide is growing. The problem is less and less ppl have more and more of the $
    Round and round we go

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    This thread makes it pretty clear that one group of ppl are led to believe that the care of ppl should be through the kindness and giving of other ppl. And another group led to believe that is a function of gov. That brainwashing is working well, and that divide is growing. The problem is less and less ppl have more and more of the $
    That is quite true. I would love to think that my hard-earned tax dollars are being spent on improving lives of others rather than say being squandered in their trillions on pointless foreign wars... even a small part of that wasted money, spent sensibly, could make most of the homeless problem and many of the root causes be disappeared. But that is another story and maybe not for these forums...
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    My daughter had a cancer scare when she was quite young, so I have an inkling of how that can affect a parent. It tears you apart, and somewhere like St Judes is often a literal life saver. Long may they continue the good work. I doubt I shall live long enough to see, but I also hope such places become a norm, without the need for public support from only those that care. The jockeying for our donation dollars has become a shit-show, and each week I get dozens upon dozens of letters and calls trying hard to pry more money from me. Between animal welfare, human welfare and the protection of our environment, there are a LOT of things I would like to help with, but I have to be selective because I don't own a money tree.
    The most inspirational place I have ever been in my life, Bar None.Everything from the research scientists, to the cafeteria workers, maintenance personnel, nurses, doctors, administrators, donors, and the heavily burdened loving parents and their kids. EVERYONE has a mindset of a common goal and it is palpable. I would love to see that Spirit translate to government and society at large. And in spite of all I see to the contrary, I am bound to optimism.

    As for the “either or” position, I think that is oversimplified.I simply gravitate to the idea that the most efficient pipeline dollar wise is outside of government in most cases.I pay a lot of taxes just like many other Americans who work for a living. And I am all too aware of the criminal activity of the vampires, corporate, government, and shiftless. The government war game bureaucracy is a perfect example of how easily corruptible the system is.

    As for me, I vote, work, pay, and pray. And I try to frugally enjoy enough of the fruit of my labor which by most standards is conservative. Probably a product of having parents who grew up with little.But age has brought a bit of Wisdom in knowing my limitations. Personal flaws and otherwise.

    We are probably not as far apart in our goals as our argumentative, rhetorical natures make things appear.

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    Mostly all are not that far apart with goals and thinking. Except we live in a time where media grows and profits from the divide, and there is so much info that you can take parts of it to make up your own reality.
    Interesting times indeed
    Round and round we go

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Mostly all are not that far apart with goals and thinking. Except we live in a time where media grows and profits from the divide, and there is so much info that you can take parts of it to make up your own reality.
    Interesting times indeed
    Unfortunately, much of that info is spurious, untrue, slanted or otherwise tainted, and we have to be wary of what molds our realities. We all have our own realities no matter what.
    It's all Here. Now.

  91. #91
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    Exactly
    Round and round we go

  92. #92
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    Here's a link to the Finland story which is interesting as to how things might be elsewhere... This is a result of that quantum shift in thinking we mentioned...

    https://scoop.me/housing-first-finla...eqel17mMEfvrh8
    It's all Here. Now.

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