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  1. #1
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    Eliot Jackson for Outside magazine

    Eliot Jackson rides for Giant Factory team and is one of very few black riders on the world cup down hill scene.

    https://www.outsideonline.com/241505...ing-protesting

    I don't much think we need any more commentary of the topic of race here in the OC, but it's a good read from a neat guy.
    Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

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    I used to subscribe to Outside then it started replacing adventure with PC articles and graphs and charts my ADD couldn't even keep up with. After I stopped subscribing I'd still stop at the library once a month and read it, then it became unrecognizable. Rant over.
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    Thanks for the link, MK.

    I just started subscribing to Outside, so I'll probably get to read that in print. Looking forward to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I used to subscribe to Outside then it started replacing adventure with PC articles and graphs and charts my ADD couldn't even keep up with. After I stopped subscribing I'd still stop at the library once a month and read it, then it became unrecognizable. Rant over.
    This was exactly my experience. National Geographic Adventure went the same way. I haven't looked at either in years.
    Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, this is a good read. Lots of perspective with little pontification.
    dang

  6. #6
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    Great read and perspective. Thanks for sharing.
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

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    love it. in my discussions about these topics lately, I have found that sharing your personal experiences with racism and encounters with systemic problems have been the most useful. even people with whom you disagree can find common ground when you think back on your life and remember times when you witnessed, experienced, or even participated in hateful things.

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    One of the experiences you have as a Black person growing up is that your parents teach you how to get pulled over by the police. They teach you to keep your hands on the wheel, to say ďYes, sir, no sirĒ when they ask for your wallet. They tell you to say, ďMy wallet is in my back pocket, is it OK if I get it?
    Don't all good parents teach you this?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Don't all good parents teach you this?
    Some don't need to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Don't all good parents teach you this?
    Yes, it is the basics. When you get to the intermediate level you can learn to say "I don't answer questions" and videotape everything.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Don't all good parents teach you this?
    Did yours?


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    All good parents of COLOR teach their kids that, or they don't sleep at night.
    Just call me Ray

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Did yours?

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    Of course they did, they are good parents.

  14. #14
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    I also taught my kids to NEVER consent to a search. If the cop asks, say no. If they press you as to why and threaten to get a warrant, say "fine, I'll wait". Without probable cause, a judge won't sign off on it.
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Don't all good parents teach you this?
    I should hope so.
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    How to act around cops should be taught in school because clearly many people behave like idiots.
    Yes, it's a basic lesson that my white parents taught me. Had a Hispanic gf that had been taught to fight the police by her parents. She was upper middle class with a college degree and I watched her escalate a simple PI that she deserved almost into an 'assaulting an officer'. I had to start screaming at her what to do and then I begged the cop to not press charges. She basically tried to ruin her engineering career and she still went to jail.
    Cops deserve sympathy too, it's not an easy job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    How to act around cops should be taught in school because clearly many people behave like idiots.
    Yes, it's a basic lesson that my white parents taught me. Had a Hispanic gf that had been taught to fight the police by her parents. She was upper middle class with a college degree and I watched her escalate a simple PI that she deserved almost into an 'assaulting an officer'. I had to start screaming at her what to do and then I begged the cop to not press charges. She basically tried to ruin her engineering career and she still went to jail.
    Cops deserve sympathy too, it's not an easy job.

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    Speaking of escalating conflicts, I've got no sympathy for the cops right now.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Don't all good parents teach you this?


    Yep, because a white kid reaching for his wallet without asking permission when a cop asks for it can lead to big trouble. My parents really drilled that into my head back in 1978
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    How to act around cops should be taught in school because clearly many people behave like idiots.
    Yes, it's a basic lesson that my white parents taught me. Had a Hispanic gf that had been taught to fight the police by her parents. She was upper middle class with a college degree and I watched her escalate a simple PI that she deserved almost into an 'assaulting an officer'. I had to start screaming at her what to do and then I begged the cop to not press charges. She basically tried to ruin her engineering career and she still went to jail.
    Cops deserve sympathy too, it's not an easy job.

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    Very true.
    Sad when people think arguing with an officer is going to get them anywhere. Very likely going to make it worse.

    They have to deal with the worse part of our society 90% of the time.

    All these folks saying "defund the police" will be singing a different tune when their house is robbed.

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  20. #20
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    Why would there be a problem reaching for your walĺet after the cop asked for it?

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    Why "all lives matter" misses the point, from the Eliot Jackson interview-


    When discussions about George Floyd and the protests started to circulate on social media, I was stunned at what I saw from athletes, fans, and people in the cycling industry. Two comments I saw a lot were ďI donít see colorĒ and ďAll lives matter.Ē When you respond in this way, youíre saying your experiences are the same as mine, and my different experience doesnít matter. In an ideal world, we would all be treated the same, but weíre not there yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    Why would there be a problem reaching for your walĺet after the cop asked for it?
    Because a significant portion of people reach for a weapon instead.
    This is a perfect example of how the public really has no idea what police are really experiencing out there.
    When you get pulled over, you roll down all windows and sit there with your hands in plain site on the steering wheel. Don't start digging around in your glove box/ center console to get your insurance when you should realize that's exactly where people remove weapons from to try and attack officers, literally weekly.
    Get a clue man.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Because a significant portion of people reach for a weapon instead.
    This is a perfect example of how the public really has no idea what police are really experiencing out there.
    When you get pulled over, you roll down all windows and sit there with your hands in plain site on the steering wheel. Don't start digging around in your glove box/ center console to get your insurance when you should realize that's exactly where people remove weapons from to try and attack officers, literally weekly.
    Get a clue man.

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    ^^This; exactly.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Don't start digging around in your glove box/ center console to get your insurance when you should realize that's exactly where people remove weapons from to try and attack officers, literally weekly.
    Get a clue man.

    And yet that's pretty much exactly what I've done every time I've been pulled over and it hasn't ever caused an issue. The thought has never crossed my mind to ask the officer nicely for permission to dig into my pocket or glove box when he, or she asks me for license, registration & insurance. Maybe I should, I'm not saying otherwise but in the moment it has never occurred to me to do so, and it never caused an incident. More than likely (e.g. for sure) if I were dark skinned I wouldn't get away with the same behavior.

    I never got the "what to do when pulled over by a cop" speech from my dad when I was little, probably because he never had any problems with them and figured I wouldn't either. "Roll all the windows down"? Haven't heard that one.
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  25. #25
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    I was pulled over last October in southern Arizona. I was polite and respectful. I asked for a warning and got it. See how that works?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I was pulled over last October in southern Arizona. I was polite and respectful. I asked for a warning and got it. See how that works?


    Damn, why didn't I think of that?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Damn, why didn't I think of that?
    If you don't ask, the answers always no.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    If you don't ask, the answers always no.


    Somehow I've gotten 4 or 5 warnings in my life without ever asking for any of them. I guess I must just be outrageously lucky!
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I also taught my kids to NEVER consent to a search. If the cop asks, say no. If they press you as to why and threaten to get a warrant, say "fine, I'll wait". Without probable cause, a judge won't sign off on it.
    Yes, but they may kneel on your throat for 8 minutes waiting for your consent. Given what your skin color is of course.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I was pulled over last October in southern Arizona. I was polite and respectful. I asked for a warning and got it. See how that works?
    Exactly how every one of my pull overs have went. Except for the times they refused the warning ticket. I was still polite and respectful as the ticket was handed out. Amazing how I didnít end up dead or in jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Cop?

    to SUNS PSD , are, were you a cop?
    Last edited by nhodge; 06-28-2020 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    to SUNS PSD , are, were you a cop?
    Nope. I was well on the other side of the law for years. I've been arrested. And I've had donut eating cops with their knees on my back. I even had a cop try and get me to fight back by manhandling me when I was handcuffed and I'm white as can be.
    Here is the thing, regardless of my past. I believe in a law abiding society with rules and safety. Cops are very necessary. I'm also friends with a sheriff now (he lives next door) and guess what? He's just a normal guy with a very tough and dangerous job, that also happens to be very critical. I want to be part of a civilized society where my wife and 2 daughters are safe, and so I have to respect those laws and the people that enforce them.
    The idea that cops are the primary problem, instead of massive law breaking and violence by segments of our society, is absurd.
    Cops make millions of arrests annually, and a handful are reported as abusive. My tendency is to think 'this must happen all the time and go unreported' but honestly I'm not so sure. Because look at the cases communities get behind, often guys caught point blank committing criminal acts and then fighting the police.
    RIP poor George Floyd. That man did not deserve that at that moment. But it's inaccurate to portray that as common.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post

    All these folks saying "defund the police" will be singing a different tune when their house is robbed.

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    Not to get too political but when people say Defund the Police, they don't mean Abolish the police. Others may say Abolish, but Defunding is about taking resources away from their military tank budget and putting it toward social workers, community centers, and other pro-active ways to keep the problem from happening to begin with by stopping the circumstances that lead people to rob houses.

    Sure, some robberies will still happen, but let's face it, how much does a cop showing up an hour later after your stuff is stolen to file a report actually do to help the situation except appease your insurance company?

  34. #34
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    Yes, Iím still wondering why police are buying MATVs on the public dime.

    I have literally never heard of an anti-vehicle IED used on police in the United States. That is precisely what those vehicles are for: deflecting bomb blasts. They arenít cheap. So, if there is no need, why are they buying them?

    Seems to me PDs could put that money to better use. Better pre-screening and selection process, perhaps? Better training?


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    There's over 500 thousands defense contractors with left over inventory, that's why. Not to mention the revolving door of cabinet members, lobbiest and ceo's that also dump a lot of our public money back into campaign coffers. We'll never fix the problem, never have, never will. We'll simply fizzle out, go bankrupt, and self destruct. There's to many players and to much money.

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  36. #36
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    I have had family in law enforcement. They are people of color. Yet they taught me not only to respect the law, but also to fear it.

    Figure that one out......


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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The idea that cops are the primary problem, instead of massive law breaking and violence by segments of our society, is absurd.
    Cops make millions of arrests annually, and a handful are reported as abusive. My tendency is to think 'this must happen all the time and go unreported' but honestly I'm not so sure. Because look at the cases communities get behind, often guys caught point blank committing criminal acts and then fighting the police.
    RIP poor George Floyd. That man did not deserve that at that moment. But it's inaccurate to portray that as common.
    I definitely agree with this. The George Floyd death was a horrible thing to watch but to imply that it's a common situation with law enforcement is not factually true.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmmUT View Post
    Not to get too political but when people say Defund the Police, they don't mean Abolish the police. Others may say Abolish, but Defunding is about taking resources away from their military tank budget and putting it toward social workers, community centers, and other pro-active ways to keep the problem from happening to begin with by stopping the circumstances that lead people to rob houses.

    Sure, some robberies will still happen, but let's face it, how much does a cop showing up an hour later after your stuff is stolen to file a report actually do to help the situation except appease your insurance company?
    That may be case, but if so, they need some marketing majors in their ranks to better convey their message, and lend blm a hand too because when a lot of people hear black lives matter they hear it as an exclusion to other lives, especially other minority lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    That may be case, but if so, they need some marketing majors in their ranks to better convey their message, and lend blm a hand too because when a lot of people hear black lives matter they hear it as an exclusion to other lives, especially other minority lives.

    BLM can't stop people from projecting.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    I definitely agree with this. The George Floyd death was a horrible thing to watch but to imply that it's a common situation with law enforcement is not factually true.
    Common enough:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/el...ns-last-words/

    The problem with discourse today: All cops are bastards, all BLM protestors are looters, rioters, and murderers, and so on. You don't have to even know what you're arguing against. One simply has to hear "defund the police" and believe that they have it all figured out. Very few people want to abolish all police, but rather divert some resources that are seen as extraneous to other social services that could respond to non-violent calls for service or calls in which no event is actually happening. If you look at the video in the link I've posted it's pretty clear that those police officers had little experience or training working with folks that are probably on the autism spectrum or have severe social anxiety, and numerous cases in the news over the years have shown this. It may be true that that's standard procedure for cops, but if you start an interaction by yelling at people with these disorders you're sort of de facto escalating the situation, because they will behave unpredictably, even if they "know better". Around 7 minutes into the video you can hear an officer talking to the person that reported him as suspicious. She asks if he threatened him and he says "no" (you have to turn the volume way up). When another officer pulls him over at 9 or so minutes in they immediately get out of the car and yell at him to stop. Would it have been possible to initiate that interaction by simply letting him know someone called about him, asking why he's wearing a mask and what he's doing? I don't see why not. Honestly unless you see someone do something illegal, just don't call the cops, IMO.
    dang

  40. #40
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    Iíve been racially profiled numerous times, but of course itís all in my head. Iíll just remember when a police officer with gun that has a hostile attitude because he is terrified of me thatís itís not factually true that I wonít be shot, beaten, or wrongfully charged.

    As far as BLM goes, of course the dominant culture is going to co-op the message for a variety of reasons.

    And yes most cops are good people, some are apathetic, and a minority are dangerous. The government regulated the prescribing of controlled substances because my profession failed to self regulate and many people died or became institutionalized.

    Iím not going to be a victim of police brutality, allow my family to be a victim of police brutality or other people of color to be victims. This also includes the white man recently put in a choke hold while a black female cop handcuffed him. Iím going to resist and if necessary fight what continues to be an issue to many minorities. Quite frankly, if someone agrees with me or not is not of my concern.

    What do you call a black doctor? A Nó-r.



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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Common enough:

    .
    Not really, actually very rare.

    In 2019 there were 28 unarmed Blacks killed by police. 51 unarmed whites. This is out of 1098 people killed by the police. These number include those killed while holding a toy weapon. This is with approximately 10 Million arrests per year.

    Every one of these deaths are tragic, they should be investigated and prosecuted if they violated the law. These killings need to stop. And I'm not saying there isn't racism and prejudice in law enforcement. Just that they numbers don't showing killing are common.

  42. #42
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    Eliot Jackson for Outside magazine

    Luckily, idiots continue to out themselves. Unfortunately, theyíve been serving for 20+ years each. Probably have to go back and review every single case they were involved in now.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...caught-on-tape

    When the police union wonít take up your case, well, good luck:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/u...-facebook.html


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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post


    That may be case, but if so, they need some marketing majors in their ranks to better convey their message, and lend blm a hand too because when a lot of people hear black lives matter they hear it as an exclusion to other lives, especially other minority lives.
    100% agree on the Defund The Police phrase. It's catchy for some, but it's not the right message. Refund the Community or something I think would get more allies.

    But I completely disagree with your BLM statement. The "too" is implied at the end of BLM. Saying All Lives Matter only deflects the attention away from the point they are trying to make. And we white people deflect as a tactic to avoid the discomfort that we get from having to reckon with the past and current state of affairs. The book "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DeAngelo goes into depth on the history of that- long before BLM.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmUT View Post
    The book "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DeAngelo goes into depth on the history of that- long before BLM.
    The book that says all white people are racist and if they if they get angry because you accuse them of being racist based solely on their skin color, its because of their white fragility. But you can take a $10,000.00 seminar from her to help end your racism

  45. #45
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    Interesting read. Something that's been bothering me for a long time. Pretty common in a lot of sports commentary.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-coded-racism/
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