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  1. #1
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    Coronavirus

    OK, ladies and gentlemen in the US, we are screwed. Even if "only* a couple thousand people end up dying, the economic damage is going to throw us into a recession as deep as the 2008-2009 meltdown.

    When every concert, every MLB game, every festival (Austin mayor just declared a public emergency to cancel SXSW - 80,000 attendees),and every school is closed, they are hauling dead bodies out of every nursing home by the dozen, no houses are sold, no plane tickets are sold, every tourist-oriented business in the country is seeing ZERO revenue, our inaction is going to look like what it is - stupid to the point of being criminal. We have had two months to prepare. Even people with clear symptoms can't get tested.

    Not to mention that virtually every manufacturer in the US is going to be negatively impacted because so much now comes from China.

    China and South Korea only have kind of gotten a handle on this by putting drastic measures into effect and quarantining entire areas. We can't even get any testing done to know if we need to quarantine anything.

    It is clear that the public officials have dropped the ball. They basically have thrown in the towel at this point and have decided that since they can't cure it and can't even test a significant number of people, they'll just bury the bodies. But hey, don't panic. Its only kind of like the flu (unless you are one of those old weaklings, or someone with an immune deficiency, then, well, you are expendable).

    What a clusterf*&ck.

    A month from now the US is going to be a very different place. Timer starts now.

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    I'd tend to agree but only in that the potential for a shtf scenario is in the making, not that it's inevitable.
    BTW, along with several other key differences this is 34 to 37 times more deadly than the flu. I wish people would stop using it as a comparative, it's not.

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    At least we can afford lobster now.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/virus...EY7CE3YTwlSLis
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    OK, ladies and gentlemen in the US, we are screwed. Even if "only* a couple thousand people end up dying, the economic damage is going to throw us into a recession as deep as the 2008-2009 meltdown.

    When every concert, every MLB game, every festival (Austin mayor just declared a public emergency to cancel SXSW - 80,000 attendees),and every school is closed, they are hauling dead bodies out of every nursing home by the dozen, no houses are sold, no plane tickets are sold, every tourist-oriented business in the country is seeing ZERO revenue, our inaction is going to look like what it is - stupid to the point of being criminal. We have had two months to prepare. Even people with clear symptoms can't get tested.

    Not to mention that virtually every manufacturer in the US is going to be negatively impacted because so much now comes from China.

    China and South Korea only have kind of gotten a handle on this by putting drastic measures into effect and quarantining entire areas. We can't even get any testing done to know if we need to quarantine anything.

    It is clear that the public officials have dropped the ball. They basically have thrown in the towel at this point and have decided that since they can't cure it and can't even test a significant number of people, they'll just bury the bodies. But hey, don't panic. Its only kind of like the flu (unless you are one of those old weaklings, or someone with an immune deficiency, then, well, you are expendable).

    What a clusterf*&ck.

    A month from now the US is going to be a very different place. Timer starts now.

    Utter B.S.
    I just washed my hands and will be back to work next week.
    You stay home and cower in the corner with your internet connection and your little timer.
    Stop tying up the emergency room over flu symptoms.
    We’ll see if you have the balls to come back in a month.
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    Life is good and getting better every day.

  5. #5
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    BTW, along with several other key differences this is 34 to 37 times more deadly than the flu. I wish people would stop using it as a comparative, it's not.
    Oh really?
    What is the total number infected?
    How many people were infected, recovered, and never diagnosed?
    How many people were exposed and never infected?

    Wash your hands and move along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    OK, ladies and gentlemen in the US, we are screwed. Even if "only* a couple thousand people end up dying, the economic damage is going to throw us into a recession as deep as the 2008-2009 meltdown.

    When every concert, every MLB game, every festival (Austin mayor just declared a public emergency to cancel SXSW - 80,000 attendees),and every school is closed, they are hauling dead bodies out of every nursing home by the dozen, no houses are sold, no plane tickets are sold, every tourist-oriented business in the country is seeing ZERO revenue, our inaction is going to look like what it is - stupid to the point of being criminal. We have had two months to prepare. Even people with clear symptoms can't get tested.

    Not to mention that virtually every manufacturer in the US is going to be negatively impacted because so much now comes from China.

    China and South Korea only have kind of gotten a handle on this by putting drastic measures into effect and quarantining entire areas. We can't even get any testing done to know if we need to quarantine anything.

    It is clear that the public officials have dropped the ball. They basically have thrown in the towel at this point and have decided that since they can't cure it and can't even test a significant number of people, they'll just bury the bodies. But hey, don't panic. Its only kind of like the flu (unless you are one of those old weaklings, or someone with an immune deficiency, then, well, you are expendable).

    What a clusterf*&ck.

    A month from now the US is going to be a very different place. Timer starts now.
    Nice troll thread. Thanks for the positive thinking.

    We survived the SARS scare, among others, and we survived the recession of 2008-2009. Unless you posted this as a ghost???

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    I wash my hands of this thread.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

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  9. #9
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    That’s EXACTLY what Picard would say
    DAAAANG...that was janky

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Oh really?
    What is the total number infected?
    How many people were infected, recovered, and never diagnosed?
    How many people were exposed and never infected?

    Wash your hands and move along.
    The WHO puts mortality at 3.4% and China at 3.7%. The flu is 0.1% , so yeah.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    At least we can afford lobster now.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/virus...EY7CE3YTwlSLis
    There's always an upside.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The WHO puts mortality at 3.4% and China at 3.7%. The flu is 0.1% , so yeah.

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    Actually, so no.
    You did not provide the figures because they are not available.
    The WHO did not “put the rate at 3.4%.”
    That is not how they operate.
    3.4% is a revised estimate.

    Without the figures it is merely a guess.
    And many reliable sources know this.

    Why 3.4% is likely an overestimate
    Dr. Toni Ho, a consultant in infectious diseases at the Medical Research Council (MRC)–University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research, U.K., echoes similar sentiments.

    She goes on to suggest that the figure of 3.4% is likely an exaggeration, mainly due to the challenges of calculating mortality rates outlined above.

    “The quoted mortality rate of 3.4% is taken from confirmed deaths over total reported cases. This is likely an overestimate, as a number of countries, such as the United States (112 confirmed, 10 deaths) and Iran (2,336 cases, 77 deaths), have had limited testing. Hence, few of the mild cases have been picked up, and [the total number of cases] we are observing is the tip of the iceberg.”

    In fact, the overestimation could be 10 times higher than the reality, notes Mark Woolhouse, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, U.K.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...n-overestimate

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Actually, so no.
    You did not provide the figures because they are not available.
    The WHO did not “put the rate at 3.4%.”
    That is not how they operate.
    3.4% is a revised estimate.

    Without the figures it is merely a guess.
    And many reliable sources know this.

    Why 3.4% is likely an overestimate
    Dr. Toni Ho, a consultant in infectious diseases at the Medical Research Council (MRC)–University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research, U.K., echoes similar sentiments.

    She goes on to suggest that the figure of 3.4% is likely an exaggeration, mainly due to the challenges of calculating mortality rates outlined above.

    “The quoted mortality rate of 3.4% is taken from confirmed deaths over total reported cases. This is likely an overestimate, as a number of countries, such as the United States (112 confirmed, 10 deaths) and Iran (2,336 cases, 77 deaths), have had limited testing. Hence, few of the mild cases have been picked up, and [the total number of cases] we are observing is the tip of the iceberg.”

    In fact, the overestimation could be 10 times higher than the reality, notes Mark Woolhouse, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, U.K.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...n-overestimate
    I'm not really one to do the back and forth thing but the WHO does put it at 3.4%. Those are the best figures we have at this time and the rest is conjecture. Now don't get me wrong I'm not shy of conjecture and I get your points but it's conjecture nonetheless.

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  14. #14
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    Exactly.
    That WHO rate is a few days old revision.
    At this point it is all conjecture based only on tested cases.
    Even the Johns Hopkins site is a running total......

    Think about it.
    That figure for influenza took how long to establish.....

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    Maybe it's just the world getting rid of the weak.... Nature taking its course.
    Heck the stupid are surviving way more often because of all the things we put in place....

  16. #16
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    So, this is worth reviewing for those with any Coronavirus questions, such as symptoms, and what to do if you either think you have it, or know you have it.
    Seems prudent to include in this thread.
    No bullshit, just good advice.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    There's always an upside.
    not fair. I am allergic to shellfish. when does pork go down in price?
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  18. #18
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    .....When swine flu comes back ‘round.....

  19. #19
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    Conjecture has been mentioned, and rightly so. Much is still conjecture, and in the grand scheme of things we do not yet know the full extent of the danger posed by Covid 19. What we DO know however, is that it is particularly deadly for the aged, and the immuno-compromised. Much more so than with influenza. Flu vaccine certainly reduces the death rate in the sick if infected, so we need to be vigilant about protecting the infirm until a vaccine has been developed for Covid. Unfortunately, this involves precautions that affect a great many people, often not in a way they would like...
    It's all Here. Now.

  20. #20
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    Not conjecture:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency
    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths
    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people
    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet.
    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state
    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out
    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected
    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands
    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon

  21. #21
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    It's a flu, we'll get over it.

    Besides, all the steps they are taking are great practice, Finding out what works and what doesn't, mostly doesn't so the next time they'll be better prepared.

    Because, maybe not the next time but inevitably, China is going to spit out a virus that really knows what it's doing. A bug that kills half of the people that get it and is much more robust that this weakling Corona. You can worry then.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    It's a flu, we'll get over it.

    Not the flu.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Not the flu.
    Enza.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Enza.

    Right, fake news....
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Right, fake news....
    The best fake news in the world, believe me.

  26. #26
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    Obviously conjured up by China with the intent of unseating captain T
    I brake for stinkbugs

  27. #27
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    In eight days the US has gone from having no deaths due to the coronavirus, to having the fifth highest number of deaths in the world, behind China, Italy, Iran and South Korea.

    Given that the cruise ship in SF Bay is almost certain to have hundreds of cases on board, and we have a government with shit for brains, we'll likely be passing South Korea within a week.

  28. #28
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    I have a kid doing a semester abroad in Florence, Italy. She was given the option of staying put or coming back to the US and finishing her studies remotely (from home). Two days last week she was the only student in class as most had already bailed.

    She is scheduled to fly back early in the week... all of the airlines are a mess so it looks as though it is going to be a crazy multi-hop adventure for her to get home.

    Just saw on the news that Italy reported 1,247 new coronavirus cases in the past 24 hours. "The draft of a new government decree suggests the country is on the verge of dramatically expanding its no-entry zone in what would be the most serious step taken anywhere outside of China to contain the coronavirus outbreak.”

    This is no joke for many though not mass hysteria worthy IMO.
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  29. #29
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    Can't be^

    Fearless leader said otherwise.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    I have a kid doing a semester abroad in Florence, Italy. She was given the option of staying put or coming back to the US and finishing her studies remotely (from home). Two days last week she was the only student in class as most had already bailed.

    She is scheduled to fly back early in the week... all of the airlines are a mess so it looks as though it is going to be a crazy multi-hop adventure for her to get home.

    Just saw on the news that Italy reported 1,247 new coronavirus cases in the past 24 hours. "The draft of a new government decree suggests the country is on the verge of dramatically expanding its no-entry zone in what would be the most serious step taken anywhere outside of China to contain the coronavirus outbreak.”

    This is no joke for many though not mass hysteria worthy IMO.
    Wow, that is a predicament. I'm surprised they are still holding classes at all. Even a couple of US Universities have cancelled classroom instruction. Let's hope she gets out of there - the situation is dire, they don't have enough hospital capacity, and now doctors and nurses are dropping like flies.

    I read where Italy is on the verge of creating a cutoff age for treatment. Apparently, if you have a severe case of Covid-19 the key to survival is to be on a respirator, and they simply do not have enough for everyone. The age I heard was 80, if you are over 80 you are on your own to stay home and die, or get better. The UK is watching to decide how they will handle the situation. In the US? I'm sure it will be "money talks, bullshit walks".

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a9384356.html

    "One UK doctor said this latter point needed careful consideration by NHS hospitals, adding: “We need to be careful to have some ICU capacity for younger patients. This is where important difficult decisions need to be made.”

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Article predicts 0.5% fatality rate. Actually seems a bit optimistic to me, but one can hope.

  33. #33
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    I wonder how many caskets the US has on hand?
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  34. #34
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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-may...105907432.html

    For the first time since China started publishing cases of new infections, on Friday there were no new cases reported in Hubei outside Wuhan, with 126.

    "I believe the day everyone is waiting for will not be too far away," Ding said.
    As the situation improves, the authorities will make adjustments, he said.
    His remarks are the latest in a number of signs that life in China may soon begin returning to normal.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    [FONT="]https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-may...105907432.html

    For the first time since China started publishing cases of new infections, on Friday there were no new cases reported in Hubei outside Wuhan, with 126.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]"I believe the day everyone is waiting for will not be too far away," Ding said.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]As the situation improves, the authorities will make adjustments, he said.[/FONT]
    His remarks are the latest in a number of signs that life in China may soon begin returning to normal.
    That is good news. I do wonder if the 'draconian measures' they mention helped prevent a greater spread and a lot more deaths. We will never really know. I do also think that by keeping people from mixing they prevented the virus from spreading even more, that seems only logical. I'd be interested to know if the virus has changed in any way and become less able to harm us humans. I have read that a second strain has mutated and is less 'strong'.
    A lot of unknowns still, but I hope that sense continues to prevail and suitable precautions taken here. Good that the funding has been authorized to allow local agencies the ability to take necessary steps to fight and treat this better.
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Though I am always skeptical of the source, it is good that there seems an indication of a reversal. I also expect that the concentrated factory culture probably played a large part in the extent and speed of the spread in China.

  37. #37
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    A quarter of Italy population under qt.
    Round and round we go

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    The Grand Princess cruise ship will begin to allow guests to disembark Monday, three days after 21 people aboard tested positive for coronavirus. Princess Cruises announced early Sunday it had been informed by state and local officials that the ship, off the coast of California, would be able to dock in the Port of Oakland, cruise line public relations director Negin Kamali told USA TODAY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post


    OK, ladies and gentlemen in the US, we are screwed. Even if "only* a couple thousand people end up dying, the economic damage is going to throw us into a recession as deep as the 2008-2009 meltdown.
    Not conjecture:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency
    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths
    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people
    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet.
    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state
    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out
    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected
    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands
    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon
    Well so much for Capitalism being the enemy of a doomed planet.......

  40. #40
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    Panic has finally arrived in my area. I do the grocery shopping early to beat the crowds. My store has ZERO drinking water and it's low on toiletries. The checker told me that it was insane in the store yesterday. The mad rush was on!

    Luckily, I have been slowly stockpiling for the past few weeks. We ain't gonna starve here, that's for sure.

  41. #41
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    State of emergency declared in Oregon. All the counties around me had already declared as much, not sure what that means. All this week I'll be participating in inspections for my company walking probably around 450 or so undesirable demographic apartments. So nice knowing you all

    Observation- all the information from professionals on the ground and from government affiliates put this as quite serious to devastating. All the ancillary professionals chiming in tend to focus on psychological overaction being the biggest factor. Quite the dichotomy.

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    physiological overaction?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayold View Post
    physiological overaction?
    Lol. well I guess that would go in the former, damn spell check.

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  44. #44
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    Meanwhile in NZ...


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    I've been waiting to hear about the new ice cream bars....
    Sheesh! Priorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    I've been waiting to hear about the new ice cream bars....
    Sheesh! Priorities.
    Yup....
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    State of emergency declared in Oregon. All the counties around me had already declared as much, not sure what that means. All this week I'll be participating in inspections for my company walking probably around 450 or so undesirable demographic apartments. So nice knowing you all

    Observation- all the information from professionals on the ground and from government affiliates put this as quite serious to devastating. All the ancillary professionals chiming in tend to focus on psychological overaction being the biggest factor. Quite the dichotomy.

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  48. #48
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    Rub some dirt on it.
    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

    Real eyes realize real lies.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    State of emergency declared in Oregon. All the counties around me had already declared as much, not sure what that means. All this week I'll be participating in inspections for my company walking probably around 450 or so undesirable demographic apartments. So nice knowing you all

    Observation- all the information from professionals on the ground and from government affiliates put this as quite serious to devastating. All the ancillary professionals chiming in tend to focus on psychological overaction being the biggest factor. Quite the dichotomy.

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  50. #50
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    Apart from maybe dying 'n stuff the market chaos is getting to be a real bummer. Even if I live, no new carbon bikes for this old fart for the next few years.

  51. #51
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    I'm more concerned about people's overreaction than the actual virus.

    “What I have a problem with is the panic and the fact that businesses are getting destroyed, that people’s lives are being upended, not by the virus, but by the panic,” Dr. Drew continued.

    http://dlvr.it/RRXGx9

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  52. #52
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    A recession? Really? The U.S. is already facing a labor shortage. A pandemic which will stall construction (and spending) is going to drive labor rates up. Healthy workers will be in higher demand.

    Regarding the panic, both my wife and son had H1N1 years ago. It sucked. They got through it. Are the viruses comparable? Yes and no. You just get through it and don't buy into the media hype. Stay cool. We're all in this together.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    I'm more concerned about people's overreaction than the actual virus.

    “What I have a problem with is the panic and the fact that businesses are getting destroyed, that people’s lives are being upended, not by the virus, but by the panic,” Dr. Drew continued.

    http://dlvr.it/RRXGx9

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    It isn't an overreaction. The world economy is grinding to a halt, because if people are afraid to go out, or are forbidden (as in Northern Italy and over 100 Million in China), no one is spending money. When first quarter earnings are reported in April, the partial extent of the issue will be revealed, but wait until 2nd quarter earnings. This is going to make 2009 look mild.

    If you aren't afraid of the virus, you aren't paying attention. Dr. Drew is a narcissistic, sociopath hack.

    Here is what is scary. ALL of the numbers are under reported in the US. They are only reporting cases if they are actually tested, and the tests are being rationed. This includes people who die. The number of deaths at the nursing home in Kirkland, WA is reported as 13 or 16 or 17 depending on what you read. Guess what? There have actually been TWENTY-SIX deaths in three weeks. Some of the people caught the infection and died without ever being even noticed by the staff, it happened so fast. Those people aren't counted as "coronavirus" deaths. That facility has 180 employees, 70 are now in quarantine, and most of the rest are refusing to go to work. They only had THREE people show up to work a shift!

    That is a preview of what is going to happen all across the country. In Italy, they are already implementing a triage protocol to ration respirators. If you are over a certain age, you are simply left to die. Currently that age is 80, but as cases grow, the age will drift down.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    A recession? Really? The U.S. is already facing a labor shortage. A pandemic which will stall construction (and spending) is going to drive labor rates up. Healthy workers will be in higher demand.

    Regarding the panic, both my wife and son had H1N1 years ago. It sucked. They got through it. Are the viruses comparable? Yes and no. You just get through it and don't buy into the media hype. Stay cool. We're all in this together.
    Glad your wife and son got thru it and are fine. It does suck. The viruses are different, quite considerably so, but some of the symptoms are similar. Many won't get thru it this time, same as the other times only maybe more, we are not sure yet...
    It's all Here. Now.

  55. #55
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    While the hype is worse than the virus at this point, it’s getting real
    Round and round we go

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    A recession? Really? The U.S. is already facing a labor shortage. A pandemic which will stall construction (and spending) is going to drive labor rates up. Healthy workers will be in higher demand.

    Regarding the panic, both my wife and son had H1N1 years ago. It sucked. They got through it. Are the viruses comparable? Yes and no. You just get through it and don't buy into the media hype. Stay cool. We're all in this together.
    This isn't the flu. Someone exposed to flu has symptoms within 72 hours, max, and in most cases, within 12 hours. COVID can incubate for 2 weeks, and the person is contagious the entire time.

    I guess the people who have died just "didn't get through it". While the majority of deaths are older people, there are a lot of 30 and 40 somethings dying as well. The Chinese doctor who was the original whistleblower on the Chinese government died, as did the director of the hospital where the whistleblower worked, and they were both "young".

    If you don't think we are already in a recession, I got nothin' The stock market just dropped 5% instantly at the open today, so they CLOSED THE MARKETS.

    Healthy workers in higher demand? LMAO. There will be no work to do unless you are in health or death care.

  57. #57
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    Dow and s and p halted, didn’t close. Yet
    Round and round we go

  58. #58
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    So for a slightly more (upbeat?) take... In my opinion, the market was extremely over valued. And with that I've been far, far too liquid - waiting for a good business opportunity or a big correction to return to equities. Well, this chaos is setting up that return - long hold money.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  59. #59
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    Deep breath.
    We really don't have much of an understanding of the epidemiology of the virus yet.
    Part of the problem is that we often don't know the difference (I'm part of the "we" here) between mortality rate, case fatality rate, death rate, etc. We simply have no idea of what the denominator is in calculating the percentage.

    The case fatality rate is about the only thing we know, but varies considerably - 5.8% in Wuhan vs. 0.7% in other areas in China, for example, and by time - 17.3% for cases with symptom onset from 1-10 January and has reduced over time to 0.7% for patients with symptom onset after 1 February.

    Getting good data from China is pretty sketchy, so that data probably has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    They didn't "close the stock market", trading was put on hold automatically via a "circuit breaker" for 15 minutes. It opened back up again. And it's still down, of course.

    A recession is generally considered as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Will we get there? Maybe. Maybe not.

    My daughter works as an operating room charge nurse, and she's had to hide surgical masks from the doctors (who should know better) because they keep stealing the damn things!

    But it's never too early to panic, I suppose.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Coronavirus-screen-shot-2020-03-08-7.47.23-am.png  


  60. #60
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    Who pays for the extended stay aboard the cruise ship if you are quarantined?

  61. #61
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    I only listen to the president's Twitter advice. All is well.


    Older folks are most at risk; kids seem to not be . Most who contract it may not even be aware.

    Practice good hygiene skills as outlined by the WHO.

    Things will be fine other than my damn 401k right now. But...gas prices will be falling!!!
    I've been on pause, but I'm shaking off the rust...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Who pays for the extended stay aboard the cruise ship if you are quarantined?
    Really?


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    Ride more; post less...

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    While the hype is worse than the virus at this point, it’s getting real
    Indeed; good interview here, from a reasoned, knowledgeable source:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcr...-march-8-2020/


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  64. #64
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    Review of COVID-19 information as of 28 Feb: Ages 30-80 a CFR of about 1.2%.
    They have a series of videos updating almost daily.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDYb_x54DM


    Fatality rate update (CFR?) in South Korea now about 0.6% and use of zinc.
    Zinc interaction addressed at 15:19
    March 6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeh054-Hx1U

  65. #65
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    A Cure?

    Nope! Once a conman, always a conman, I guess...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...5eV?li=BBnb7Kz
    Will you shut up, man?!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Nope! Once a conman, always a conman, I guess...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...5eV?li=BBnb7Kz
    Wow, that's sad. Why do they give him 10 days to show compliance, should be 10 hours or he's back in jail. Actually, he should just be back in jail for that.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  67. #67
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    I heard if you ride your bike minimum 10 miles a day you won't get it. just sayin.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    So for a slightly more (upbeat?) take... In my opinion, the market was extremely over valued. And with that I've been far, far too liquid - waiting for a good business opportunity or a big correction to return to equities. Well, this chaos is setting up that return - long hold money.
    Washing my hands.
    Back to work.
    Buying Stock.
    Thanks to all the illegitimate fear mongers.

    Parents in their 80s, sick with colds, corona in Memphis.
    But we ain’t marching to the doomsday loonies tune.

  69. #69
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    Love the optimism here. Dow is down 7.3%, NYSE overall 8.7%. The oil price war (which was certainly triggered by the first hand knowledge of just how tanked the Chinese economy is now), is going to bankrupt dozens of US oil-related companies if it lasts into Summer, and Putin and the Saudis would both love that. If you want to scare yourself, look into how much capital banks have loaned into oil, and how your mutual funds have tons in oil-related stocks. The oil industry may kill some US banks as well. Exxon is down 11%, Chevron 15%, BP 20%. Just today.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...or-20-Oil.html

    All of that "energy independence" bullshit from our fearless leaders is about to be exposed for what it is. We were never "energy independent", we were just exporting more oil than we imported. US oil from the shale fracking boom needs $50 a barrel to break even.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ZT0CA

    Oh yes, we need "two quarters" of contraction to be in an official recession. The 4th quarter of 2019 was barely above the level deemed to be "recession", so when the 1st quarter is reported in about a month, and especially the second quarter in July, we can hear our fearless leaders try to spin the numbers on that, just like they are spinning the numbers on the number of virus cases and deaths. We don't want to scare anyone, so keep the band playing as the chairs slide off the deck into the frigid waters.

    You can't count a sickness or death as being due to the virus unless you have an officially blessed test result from the CDC. Look at what has happened in the nursing home in Kirkland, WA. They have listed a dozen deaths (in addition to the 17 they *have* acknowledged) as "cause unknown" just because the people were not diagnosed before they died. Why weren't they diagnosed? They didn't have test kits. See how this works? Just like the Douchebag in Chief trying to keep the cruise ship from docking in the US, because he didn't want the numbers to look bad. FS*&ck the people on board, can't have a public relations issue.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Washing my hands.
    Back to work.
    Buying Stock.
    Thanks to all the illegitimate fear mongers.

    Parents in their 80s, sick with colds, corona in Memphis.
    But we ain’t marching to the doomsday loonies tune.
    As I said before, see you in a month. You have no clue. Keep burying your head in the sand.

    Here is the former head of the FDA, someone who can speak the truth rather than what Trump wants him to say:

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, we have an epidemic underway here in the United States. There's a very large outbreak in Seattle. That's the one we know about, probably one in Santa Clara or maybe other parts of the country, other cities. And so we're past the point of containment. We have to implement broad mitigation strategies. The next two weeks are really going to change the complexion in this country. We'll get through this, but it's going to be a hard period. We're looking at two months probably of difficulty. To give you a basis of comparison, two weeks ago, Italy had nine cases. Ninety-five percent of all their cases have been diagnosed in the last 10 days. For South Korea, 85 percent of all their cases have been diagnosed in the last 10 days. We're entering that period right now of rapid acceleration. And the sooner we can implement tough mitigation steps in places we have outbreaks like Seattle, the- the lower the scope of the epidemic here.


    DR. GOTTLIEB: Close businesses, close large gatherings, close theaters, cancel events. I think we need to think about how do we provide assistance to the people of these cities who are going to be hit by hardship, as well as the localities themselves to try to give them an incentive to do this. Right now, if there's no economic support to do this, you don't want to be the first to go. And I think you're seeing that. This exposes one of the challenges of our federal system that we leave a lot of authority to state and local officials. And there's a good- there's good reasons why. But in a situation like this, we want them to act not just in their local interests, but the national interests, I think we need to think about both trying to coerce them. We can't force them but also try to provide some incentives in terms of support. And we're going to end up with a very big federal bailout package here for stricken businesses, individuals, cities and states. We're better off doing it upfront and giving assistance to get them to do the right things than do it on the back end after we've had a very big epidemic.


    DR. GOTTLIEB: No, this is not the flu. China didn't shut down their economy because they had a bad flu season. The case fatality rate here is going to be higher all through the age ranges. This is a more severe disease. Now, it's true that- that you don't see the full spectrum of disease that you see with the flu where some people get a mild disease, some people get a moderate disease, some people get more severe disease. Here you're seeing a- a more binary response. Some people get a mild, moderate disease and some people get very sick. But for the people who get very sick, this could be a very dangerous disease. The case fatality rate is probably going to be about 1 percent. And it's not just older Americans, as tragic as that is. And we shouldn't dismiss the burden that this is going to place on older Americans. If you look at 40 year-olds, the case fatality rate has been anywhere between point two and point four percent. So that means as many as one in 250 40 to 50-year-olds who get this could die from it.

  71. #71
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    Honkin.

    I wasn’t able to find a single laudatory post from you over the last year when my account made well over 100K.

    Funny that.

    Many employer funded 401 k accounts will accumulate larger numbers of shares than have been available in a long time this week.

    Your little pathetic chicken little posting routine here over the last few days is not grounded in reality. Your posts are characteristic of a Panic Huckster. They have predicted everything from exaggerated death rates to the complete end of capitalism and now “ The end of the United States as we know it” within 28 days. They are a charicature of the people fighting over masks and toilet paper.
    Laughably absurd.

    Quite a record so far.

    As for your Ill informed assessment of my current personal life, you couldn’t be more wrong. Whilst taking precautions I am washing my hands more, working more, making more, loving more, and riding my bike more than ever before. All whilst being in the group you have marked for certain death.
    We can revisit your soothsayer journal in 28 days.
    In the meantime, I Laugh at your over the top hysterics.
    Really, I do.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Not conjecture:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency
    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths
    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people
    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet.
    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state
    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out
    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected
    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands
    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon
    I live about a mile from that nursing home in WA. Oh lucky me.


    At least our traffic is much better lately.

  73. #73
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    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

    Thrill Bikers Unite!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Honkin.

    I wasn’t able to find a single laudatory post from you over the last year when my account made well over 100K.

    Funny that.

    Many employer funded 401 k accounts will accumulate larger numbers of shares than have been available in a long time this week.

    Your little pathetic chicken little posting routine here over the last few days is not grounded in reality. Your posts are characteristic of a Panic Huckster. They have predicted everything from exaggerated death rates to the complete end of capitalism and now “ The end of the United States as we know it” within 28 days. They are a charicature of the people fighting over masks and toilet paper.
    Laughably absurd.

    Quite a record so far.
    Dude. You are clearly a math-challenged, Mid-South Trump voter.

    Here is a question for you. If your 401K bought $1000 worth of Exxon stock exactly two months ago, on December 9, 2019, two weeks *before* the coronavirus was known, how much is that worth today? The answer is $600. And we are nowhere near the bottom.

    See you in 28 days.

  75. #75
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    Dude. You are clearly a math-challenged, Mid-South Trump voter.

    Here is a question for you. If your 401K bought $1000 worth of Exxon stock exactly two months ago, on December 9, 2019, two weeks *before* the coronavirus was known, how much is that worth today? The answer is $600. And we are nowhere near the bottom.

    See you in 28 days.
    You and your misinformed “ifs”....
    Can you be so ignorant of the market as to base your assessment of it on 2 days and one stock?
    I guess so.
    Here’s a hot tip. Sell all of your stock now.
    Get out today while you still can.

    Thing is, the panic being promoted by some here is probably the single greatest threat to the treatment of those who need and will need help the most.

    Pitiful.

    28 days, you got it.....
    https://youtu.be/KQ6zr6kCPj8

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The WHO puts mortality at 3.4% and China at 3.7%. The flu is 0.1% , so yeah.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    It is also expected that China greatly under reported the number infected. That can greatly skew the number higher than reality.

    The Diamond Princess cruise ship may provide better data . 3700 on board. 700+ infected. 6 died. .85% mortality rate and all 70+ years old.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I live about a mile from that nursing home in WA. Oh lucky me.


    At least our traffic is much better lately.
    I should update that "Not conjecture post" from *yesterday*:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency TODAY: Kentucky, Maryland, Florida, Utah, Oregon have also declared emergencies

    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths TODAY: Nursing home has had TWENTY-SIX deaths, 17 "officially" blamed on the virus, the others are pending investigation.

    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people TODAY: New York State has over 100 cases, NYC alone has 16.

    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet. TODAY: The ship just docked in Oakland. They haven't said how many people are now sick, because, you know, the Dumbshit Leader of the Free World doesn't want to test them to find out. They are going to offload the US Citizens to military quarantine, and put the non-US citizen passengers on charter flights to somewhere else, because, you know, the Dumbshit Leader of the Free World doesn't want to be "blamed" for those cases. The crew, no matter how sick, are going to be sent back out on the ship to drift around until they are all dead or recovered. Meanwhile, another ship is being held off the coast of Florida.

    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state TODAY: A ninth case has been confirmed in yet another county in CO, and a 10th case is being investigated in yet ANOTHER county. Also, a woman from Australia who partied for a week in Aspen was diagnosed as soon as she returned home, and people who were in contact with her in Aspen are showing symptoms.

    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out TODAY: BNP Paribas Open tennis tournament at Indian Wells was cancelled (this is a *big* tournament on the calendar), two festivals in South Florida cancelled, Coachella is probably not going to happen.

    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    TODAY: Dozens of tech conferences have been cancelled: https://www.zdnet.com/article/sxsw-c...d-travel-bans/

    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected

    TODAY: Too many to list. Google "coronavirus school closing" and you'll get hundreds of hits just from the past 24 hours. Many colleges and universities are going online only as well.

    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands TODAY: NCAA is meeting twice a day and may reduce the number of locations where games are played.


    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    TODAY: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...rtainty-124191

    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon TODAY: Now the State Department says NO ONE should take a cruise anytime soon: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachels.../#86be6e841e1a

  78. #78
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    I hate popcorn, but I'm heading out to panic buy at least enough for 29 days...
    It's all Here. Now.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Dude. You are clearly a math-challenged, Mid-South Trump voter.

    Here is a question for you. If your 401K bought $1000 worth of Exxon stock exactly two months ago, on December 9, 2019, two weeks *before* the coronavirus was known, how much is that worth today? The answer is $600. And we are nowhere near the bottom.

    See you in 28 days.
    Sell now Nostradamus. 28 days is irrelevant unless one is pressed to sell a large amount of stock. (One might consider Kimberly Clark, Proctor Gamble, 3M or a few other companies that may benefit from current behavior)

    I will be buying stocks, this week, next week and for the next 300+ weeks until retirement. I'll take buying them at a discount.

    Look at it this way, the stock market is just reacting as if it is "Feeling the Bern"...only right now it is irrational.

  80. #80
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    It is also expected that China greatly under reported the number infected. That can greatly skew the number higher than reality.

    The Diamond Princess cruise ship may provide better data . 3700 on board. 700+ infected. 6 died. .85% mortality rate and all 70+ years old.
    Not to mention the stellar medical care that is so exemplary of nursing homes.....

  81. #81
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    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I hate popcorn, but I'm heading out to panic buy at least enough for 29 days...
    That’s the spirit.
    Putting in a stock buy for popcorn......

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Not conjecture:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency
    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths
    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people
    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet.
    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state
    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out
    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected
    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands
    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon
    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I should update that "Not conjecture post" from *yesterday*:

    - WA, CA and NY have declared a State of Emergency TODAY: Kentucky, Maryland, Florida, Utah, Oregon have also declared emergencies

    - One nursing home in WA has seen 10 deaths TODAY: Nursing home has had TWENTY-SIX deaths, 17 "officially" blamed on the virus, the others are pending investigation.

    - One guy in NY infected over 30 people TODAY: New York State has over 100 cases, NYC alone has 16.

    - The cruise ship sitting offshore in SF has over 20 cases and they don't even have test results for 90% of the people on board yet. TODAY: The ship just docked in Oakland. They haven't said how many people are now sick, because, you know, the Dumbshit Leader of the Free World doesn't want to test them to find out. They are going to offload the US Citizens to military quarantine, and put the non-US citizen passengers on charter flights to somewhere else, because, you know, the Dumbshit Leader of the Free World doesn't want to be "blamed" for those cases. The crew, no matter how sick, are going to be sent back out on the ship to drift around until they are all dead or recovered. Meanwhile, another ship is being held off the coast of Florida.

    - CO went from no cases on Wednesday to eight on Friday, and they are spread all over the state TODAY: A ninth case has been confirmed in yet another county in CO, and a 10th case is being investigated in yet ANOTHER county. Also, a woman from Australia who partied for a week in Aspen was diagnosed as soon as she returned home, and people who were in contact with her in Aspen are showing symptoms.

    -SXSW cancelled with over 80,000 individual attendees shut out TODAY: BNP Paribas Open tennis tournament at Indian Wells was cancelled (this is a *big* tournament on the calendar), two festivals in South Florida cancelled, Coachella is probably not going to happen.

    - Dozens of concerts, sporting events and festivals have already been cancelled
    TODAY: Dozens of tech conferences have been cancelled: https://www.zdnet.com/article/sxsw-c...d-travel-bans/

    - Several school districts have suspended classes, as have at least three Universities, including Stanford, which has two students and one faculty member infected

    TODAY: Too many to list. Google "coronavirus school closing" and you'll get hundreds of hits just from the past 24 hours. Many colleges and universities are going online only as well.

    - The NCAA Division II basketball tournament games at Johns Hopkins will be played with no one in the stands TODAY: NCAA is meeting twice a day and may reduce the number of locations where games are played.


    - Dozens of large corporations have already sounded the alarm that there will be at least temporary layoffs due to business impacts
    TODAY: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...rtainty-124191

    - The cruise ship industry is being hammered, and even the science non-believer in charge of the coronavirus response in the US says seniors should not take a cruise anytime soon TODAY: Now the State Department says NO ONE should take a cruise anytime soon: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachels.../#86be6e841e1a
    There have been a lot of deaths at the nursing home for sure. Beyond that, we also have a lot of cases in the state. King County, where I live, has the most cases in the country.

    I’ll wash my hands a lot and avoid crowds. No more hockey games for a while. Our cruise industry will be very hard hit.

    I hope to hell that I don’t get this.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Sell now Nostradamus. 28 days is irrelevant unless one is pressed to sell a large amount of stock. (One might consider Kimberly Clark, Proctor Gamble, 3M or a few other companies that may benefit from current behavior)

    I will be buying stocks, this week, next week and for the next 300+ weeks until retirement. I'll take buying them at a discount.

    Look at it this way, the stock market is just reacting as if it is "Feeling the Bern"...only right now it is irrational.
    300+ weeks to retirement? You are lucky, you might get back to even by then.

    It took 8 years for the market to recover from the 2000 crash, and then it crashed again in 2008 and took six years to get back even.

    No one knows this time, of course. All of 2019 has been wiped out so far.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Sell now Nostradamus. 28 days is irrelevant unless one is pressed to sell a large amount of stock. (One might consider Kimberly Clark, Proctor Gamble, 3M or a few other companies that may benefit from current behavior)

    I will be buying stocks, this week, next week and for the next 300+ weeks until retirement. I'll take buying them at a discount.

    Look at it this way, the stock market is just reacting as if it is "Feeling the Bern"...only right now it is irrational.
    Some people do well no matter the political wind.
    Funny that.
    And something many would do well to consider.

  86. #86
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    With all this talk of 28 days from now...

    https://youtu.be/7suz9ndPBHg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  87. #87
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    No one knows this time, of course. All of 2019 has been wiped out so far.
    Again, ignorance of accounts in markets.
    Do you actually think the accounts lost all of their gains for 2019?

    300+ weeks to retirement? You are lucky, you might get back to even by then.
    Another absurdly simplistic assessment. You Really don’t know how account investment diversification works....Or even retirement variables for that matter. “Luck” my ass.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Not to mention the stellar medical care that is so exemplary of nursing homes.....
    Another ignorant comment.

    Guess what? 40% of the people who worked at that nursing home two weeks ago now have symptoms and are in isolation, which means they now can't take care of the patients. Other workers who have not yet been affected just walked away and quit. This is exactly what happened in China and Northern Italy as well, which is WHY they declared a total quarantine. If people were allowed to mingle with no restriction, the number of sick people will overwhelm the health care system. In Italy, they are on the verge of deciding that no one over a certain age gets a respirator no matter how sick they are, because they simply do not have enough respirators to go around.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/ital...ks-plunge.html

    Better hope you don't crash your bike two weeks from now, there may not be anyone at the hospital to care for you, and even is there is, you'll be treated by people who are almost certainly recently exposed to the virus.

  89. #89
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    Things might get a lot worse. They might not. Between the oil war and Wuhan virus, the markets are spooked!

    As of a few days ago, in South Korea, the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 0.6%. It's likely to go lower as more people who are already infected get identified.

    BTW, the WHO estimates the CFR for Spanish flu at 2% to 3%.

    The CDC estimate for the Spanish flu is 2.5%.
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/05-0979_article

    For reference, the S&P 500 was 1865 on 12 Feb 2016 and 2531 on 4 Jan 2019.

    Much of that may yet get wiped out, but after today's bloodletting the S&P is up 8.5% since Jan of 2019 and up 47% since Feb of 2016.

    IF the Wuhan Virus outbreak results continue on the trend set in South Korea AND IF the oil war stabilizes, we may be in good shape by the end of the month.

    I don't want to minimize the pain. Who knows, maybe half of us will die and the market will completely go to zero, but it just seems unlikely.

  90. #90
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    Another ignorant comment.

    Guess what? 40% of the people who worked at that nursing home two weeks ago now have symptoms and are in isolation, which means they now can't take care of the patients. Other workers who have not yet been affected just walked away and quit. This is exactly what happened in China and Northern Italy as well, which is WHY they declared a total quarantine. If people were allowed to mingle with no restriction, the number of sick people will overwhelm the health care system. In Italy, they are on the verge of deciding that no one over a certain age gets a respirator no matter how sick they are, because they simply do not have enough respirators to go around.
    LMAO.
    Read it again, and the post prior which it referenced, think long and hard, then re-post.
    .....Before Rocker runs out of popcorn.....

    Here, I’ll help you. You think the circumstance in that Washington nursing home, beyond the infection, might have contributed to the mortality rate?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Again, ignorance of accounts in markets.
    Do you actually think the accounts lost all of their gains for 2019?



    Another absurdly simplistic assessment. You Really don’t know how account investment diversification works....Or even retirement variables for that matter. “Luck” my ass.
    S&P 500 Tracking ETFs:

    March 9, 2019 March 9, 2020
    SPY - $275 $274
    VOO- $258 $252
    IVV- $276 $274

  92. #92
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    Better hope you don't crash your bike two weeks from now, there may not be anyone at the hospital to care for you, and even is there is, you'll be treated by people who are almost certainly recently exposed to the virus.w
    See Honk there’s the difference between you and I. One of my biggest customers is the hospital in Memphis where the patient is being held in a negative pressure room. I’ve worked around the nasty little things my whole adult life. Some considerably worse. In strictly controlled conditions.

    So I am well aware that it takes more than “hope” in less controlled environments. And panic is simply a no go.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    LMAO.
    Read it again, and the post prior which it referenced, think long and hard, then re-post.
    .....Before Rocker runs out of popcorn.....

    Here, I’ll help you. You think the circumstance in that Washington nursing home, beyond the infection, might have contributed to the mortality rate?
    I think that the circumstance that people completely ignored all prior warnings, failed to take proper precautions, and arrogantly thought they were immune to what was already known to be a deadly and highly communicable virus contributed to the mortality rate.

    Kind of like your thinking.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    S&P 500 Tracking ETFs:

    March 9, 2019 March 9, 2020
    SPY - $275 $274
    VOO- $258 $252
    IVV- $276 $274
    Fact.
    My account, after today, still has considerably more than It had at the beginning of 2019, and considerably more than I invested in that time.
    It made considerably more than I did at my job.

    Kind of like your thinking.
    See post #92.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    See Honk there’s the difference between you and I. One of my biggest customers is the hospital in Memphis where the patient is being held in a negative pressure room. I’ve worked around the nasty little things my whole adult life. Some considerably worse. In strictly controlled conditions.

    So I am well aware that it takes more than “hope” in less controlled environments. And panic is simply a no go.
    Newsflash: There has never been in our lifetimes anything as communicable and deadly as COVID-19, so no, you have *not* worked around anything that even comes close, let alone was "considerably worse".

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    It is also expected that China greatly under reported the number infected. That can greatly skew the number higher than reality.

    The Diamond Princess cruise ship may provide better data . 3700 on board. 700+ infected. 6 died. .85% mortality rate and all 70+ years old.
    I'd agree, we don't know.

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  97. #97
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    What we do somewhat know is the impact this is having on other countries. I guess we can extrapolate from that and ask ourselves if there's any reason why we wouldn't experience the same? I see no reason why we wouldn't. Are we less prepared, more prepared? Again, it doesn't seem like we're more prepared. As the first sentence we really don't know what's going to happen, the potential for things to go sideways is there though. Other than my parents I'm not really invested in much and don't stand to loose much.

    In Italy's letter to the UK and Europe to prepare they indicate that there really was no discrepancy to the old, but that younger patients took much longer to gestate(if you will) and deplete their physiological resources. They report 10% of cases being very serious to requiring a ventilator. They're also suggesting a triage where the older are not prioritized as they're less likely to survive.

    I did just witness the toilet paper buying robots. My observation is that it gives them some level of control/preparation. They're scared. My wish is this exposes us all as human beings. Hard times and tragedy have a way of being matched with empathy. Love your neighbors and all that, ya jerks. America could use a giant reset button as far as I'm concerned.

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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Newsflash: There has never been in our lifetimes anything as communicable and deadly as COVID-19, so no, you have *not* worked around anything that even comes close, let alone was "considerably worse".
    Are you serious?
    You couldn’t be more wrong.
    Not even mentioning recent Ebola outbreaks among many others.
    You might want to do a cursory review of viral research containment facilities.

    simple google...
    https://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude...nt-safety.html

    https://www.stjude.org/research/init...veillance.html

    https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dhcpp/hcl...oratories.html

  99. #99
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    Sooooo...what are good stocks to buy right now?

  100. #100
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    Any lab stock.....

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    ...There has never been in our lifetimes anything as communicable and deadly as COVID-19...
    As of now, this simply isn't confirmed. It's possible that is true, but the data so far doesn't put communicability worse than either Measles or Flu. And, as I mentioned, the CFR in South Korea is down to 0.6% and is likely to go down from there.

    "There is some encouraging news about the coronavirus' spread. So far, it seems to spread less easily than flu or measles."
    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-on-your-cheek

    Again, this could change, and it could get worse, but so far the data doesn't point in that direction.

  102. #102
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    Charmin stocks are way up bruh

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  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Charmin stocks are way up bruh

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    WORD!
    I purchased a bidet toilet seat, so I don't need no stinkin' TP!

    But I don't live in Australia....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Coronavirus-25501880-8071359-image-12_1583275201951.jpg  


  104. #104
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    . Newsflash: There has never been in our lifetimes anything as communicable and deadly as COVID-19, so no, you have *not* worked around anything that even comes close, let alone was "considerably worse".
    Honkin u nit.
    Ebola, HIV, MERS, Hepatitis, and yes influenza.
    Google is your friend.....
    https://www.mdlinx.com/internal-medicine/article/6080

  105. #105
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    Google is your friend

    Take your own advice

    Wash tour hands and move on
    Round and round we go

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Google is your friend

    Take your own advice

    Wash tour hands and move on
    No.
    I never gave such advice.
    I don’t have any tour hands to wash.

  107. #107
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    My wife is a microbiologist.
    she says, drink your coffee, wash your hands, eat your breakfast, don't pick your nose that's just gross, and above all avoid water parks, get on with your life and don't worry.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  108. #108
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    Some interesting information on today's update from MedCram. MedCram isn't associated with the CDC, but they give pretty good updates:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm7UrZeu-74

    Remdesivir is an antiviral medication that inhibits the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase in MERS. It's already gone through phase one and two trials, but is yet to be tried on Wuhan virus. Having been through those trials it - apparently - has already entered directly into a phase three trial.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    As of now, this simply isn't confirmed. It's possible that is true, but the data so far doesn't put communicability worse than either Measles or Flu. And, as I mentioned, the CFR in South Korea is down to 0.6% and is likely to go down from there.

    "There is some encouraging news about the coronavirus' spread. So far, it seems to spread less easily than flu or measles."
    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-on-your-cheek

    Again, this could change, and it could get worse, but so far the data doesn't point in that direction.

    "The Data"? The data about what? Cases in the US? We already know that ONE guy in NY was responsible for over 30 infections.

    If you don't test someone, they don't have it. If they are dead, they didn't have it unless the CDC said they did *before* they died.

    That is why the nursing home case is so fuc*&ed. As of Saturday, they had 26 people die in less than three weeks, when their normal rate is 3-7 every 30 days. But hey, the "official" count is 13-15-17, depending on which spin doctor is blathering.

    https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/C...568587081.html

    The cruise ship? 21 cases, right? THEY DON'T KNOW, because they don't want to count. They are going to put people on airplanes and send them back to their country of origin so they can spread the virus there! Because the Douchebag in charge doesn't want those cases to "count"! The responsible thing to do would be to unload the ship and quarantine everyone. No, we aren't going to do that.

    I hate to say it, but what it is going to take for people to wake the hell up is for someone famous to die from coronavirus. If Kobe Bryant died from coronavirus instead of in a helicopter crash, we would have people demanding some real action instead of buying some extra toilet paper and calling it good.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    My wife is a microbiologist.
    she says, drink your coffee, wash your hands, eat your breakfast, don't pick your nose that's just gross, and above all avoid water parks, get on with your life and don't worry.
    Oh, I'll just book my cruise right now then.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    My wife is a microbiologist.
    she says, drink your coffee, wash your hands, eat your breakfast, don't pick your nose that's just gross, and above all avoid water parks, get on with your life and don't worry.
    Shouldn't we wash our hands BEFORE we drink our coffee? And whose nose should we pick?

    Guess I'd better stop biting my nails.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    No.
    I never gave such advice.
    I don’t have any tour hands to wash.
    Oh really
    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Oh really?


    Wash your hands and move along.
    Round and round we go

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    "The Data"? The data about what?
    The data, which I referenced earlier, from South Korea where almost everyone has been tested. It's the most complete data set we have.

    We know how many die, that's the numerator. We don't know how many are infected, that's the denominator and the SK data is more complete in that area.

    This gives us a very good snap shot as to true CFR.
    Go back and read my post for the information.

    This virus is not more communicable, or more deadly than anything we've faced in our lifetimes. The CFR is not higher than it was for the Spanish Flu. Today's bloodletting in the stock market has not erased all of the increase of 2019. Take a breath and think.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    300+ weeks to retirement? You are lucky, you might get back to even by then.

    It took 8 years for the market to recover from the 2000 crash, and then it crashed again in 2008 and took six years to get back even.

    No one knows this time, of course. All of 2019 has been wiped out so far.
    Wrong. As far as 401k goes, year to date I am down 4%. My returns for the last year (3/19-->3/20) are still up 4+%. I have other assets, such as real estate and gold, that are doing fine.

    Could it get worse, sure. Anything "could" happen.

  115. #115
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    Not really sure how someone could say market gains over the last year have not been wiped out. Simple math
    Round and round we go

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Oh really
    Read it again Meat.
    I don’t have TOUR hands as you posted.
    I never suggested anyone wash TOUR hands.

    Same as your account math.......worthless.

    Not really sure how someone could say market gains over the last year have not been wiped out. Simple math
    You’re three for three here.
    Reading, writing, and arithmetic.
    I swear man, even in the face of intelligent disagreement from multiple contributors you STILL lack the instinct for self reflection.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Oh, I'll just book my cruise right now then.
    Finally.
    Prove him wrong.
    You go girl!

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Not really sure how someone could say market gains over the last year have not been wiped out. Simple math
    The statement was "All of 2019 has been wiped out so far".
    The S&P 500 was 2531 on 4 Jan 2019. Today, after the carnage, the S&P 500 was 2746.

    For the 12 month period, Mar 9 to Mar 9 the gains have indeed been wiped out. But I never said that the market gains of the last 12 month period were not wiped out.

    I don't mind being held accountable for the stupid things I've said....I don't much like being held accountable for the stupid things I haven't said.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    My wife is a microbiologist.
    she says, drink your coffee, wash your hands, eat your breakfast, don't pick your nose that's just gross, and above all avoid water parks, get on with your life and don't worry.
    Coronavirus-hhpc44jpunl41.jpg
    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

    Real eyes realize real lies.

  120. #120
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    Supply air grille just out of frame directly above intake manifold funnel.....

  121. #121
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    Coronavirus-b8t8eceyijl41.png
    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

    Real eyes realize real lies.

  122. #122
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    I've learned that TP will be the new currency in the post apocalyptic world.

  123. #123
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    the one ring, I hope this is visible. https://www.facebook.com/spottedtorq...0479891624751/

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    the one ring, I hope this is visible. https://www.facebook.com/spottedtorq...0479891624751/
    lol
    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I've learned that TP will be the new currency in the post apocalyptic world.
    Don't invest too heavily. (Yes, I have posted this elsewhere but thankfully not everyone that is posting in this thread has infected that thread)


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  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    the one ring, I hope this is visible. https://www.facebook.com/spottedtorq...0479891624751/
    LMAO....
    Notre Dame......waddayaexpect....

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Oh, I'll just book my cruise right now then.
    Go for it.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why is it when someone says don't touch your face you have an itchy nose? Like when you are doing wheel bearings and your hands are covered in grease

  129. #129
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    OzFat, you better hope that most of us don’t die from the corona virus because I don’t know what you’ll do without someone to argue with.
    DAAAANG...that was janky

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir kayakalot View Post
    OzFat, you better hope that most of us don’t die from the corona virus because I don’t know what you’ll do without someone to argue with.
    And without me who would you and your most of us majority have to argue with?

  131. #131
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    Not Picard, he won’t respond to my requests, so for now, you’re all I got
    DAAAANG...that was janky

  132. #132
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    And so it goes with beggars and their choices....
    I’ll yield to you and this Picard dude for a while.
    We’ll see how it goes.

  133. #133
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    Oz, not really sure what tour saying, but neither are you, so guess we’re even. There you go, a typo on purpose. I know they really send you into a loop.
    You turn every thread you partake in into a shit show.
    Round and round we go

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Shouldn't we wash our hands BEFORE we drink our coffee? And whose nose should we pick?

    Guess I'd better stop biting my nails.
    Wasn't in a specific order really. Just general suggestion.

  135. #135
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    I wash my hands before I pee. Always thought the order was backwards on that one.

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  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I wash my hands before I pee. Always thought the order was backwards on that one.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    As do I, don't want the better half catching Covid19.

  137. #137
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    People look at you funny when you wash your hands before you go pee. Best to get the engine grease off your hands first

    How to tell if a guy at work is not washing his hands. Take a jalapeno, slice it open and rub it on the bathroom door handle. If he comes out yelling he did not wash his hands. Then report to HR.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    People look at you funny when you wash your hands before you go pee. Best to get the grease off first
    Why is your wee-wee greasy?
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  139. #139
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    Damn you beat me to my attempted ninja edit.

    Once you get moly grease on there I swear it never comes off.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    the one ring, I hope this is visible. https://www.facebook.com/spottedtorq...0479891624751/
    There's a scene in "Good Omens", a 7 episode series on Prime, where, in hell, there are large signs posted periodically asking the damnde, "Please don't lick the walls"
    Just call me Ray

  141. #141
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    Only new stuff:

    ALL of Italy is now in quarantine: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/ital...y-at-home.html

    CDC says people over 60 probably shouldn't travel at all: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...s-avoid-crowds

    Irony alert: Boston conference where a major topic was coronavirus infected at least 36 people, 32 of whom are in MA: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/03...navirus-cases/

    Trump' s new Chief of Staff is self-isolating: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...to-coronavirus

    Canada's first death was a nursing home resident: https://www.timminstoday.com/around-...tality-2150898

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Not really sure how someone could say market gains over the last year have not been wiped out. Simple math
    It depends on the market. Check gold.

    A diversified portfolio will have $ in many different markets.

    Unless one must sell, losses are only on paper. Those of us time cost averaging our purchases, we are buying more shares now for the same $ as compared to 2 months ago.

    The irrational selling is more likely to be short lived than one driven by poor economic fundamentals. Hint people: the stock market is NOT the economy.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Nope! Once a conman, always a conman, I guess...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...5eV?li=BBnb7Kz
    The Bakkers, how many of them are still around, should all be put in solitary confinement/isolation/quarantine indefinitely, and all income they have earned from touting their " cure" should be confiscated. They are predators of the sick and the weak and the poor, which don't jibe with what the Bible tells us.
    Just call me Ray

  144. #144
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    The governor of Washington got mad because someone in the administration told people not to go to Seattle on a vacation right now. The very next day he said he was Considering mandatory measures regarding public gatherings, because of Coronavirus. Guess he feels very strongly both ways about the issue.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    The governor of Washington got mad because someone in the administration told people not to go to Seattle on a vacation right now. The very next day he said he was Considering mandatory measures regarding public gatherings, because of Coronavirus. Guess he feels very strongly both ways about the issue.
    He is a politician, no?
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  146. #146
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    Coronavirus-female-isolation.png

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    It depends on the market. Check gold.

    A diversified portfolio will have $ in many different markets.

    Unless one must sell, losses are only on paper. Those of us time cost averaging our purchases, we are buying more shares now for the same $ as compared to 2 months ago.

    The irrational selling is more likely to be short lived than one driven by poor economic fundamentals. Hint people: the stock market is NOT the economy.
    Most accounts have a rebalance feature that simply funnels high yields of an up market in stocks to non stock markets that are stable. March 7/19 to March 6 /20 my funds are up 10%. But as you well note, gains or losses are not tangible until they are converted by selling up or down.
    Down is when you buy, and when the prices are up, diversify into other markets as a buffer against future instability.
    Putting the principle of compound interest in the working man’s favor.

    This stuff should be required subject study in high school.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    It depends on the market. Check gold.

    A diversified portfolio will have $ in many different markets.

    Unless one must sell, losses are only on paper. Those of us time cost averaging our purchases, we are buying more shares now for the same $ as compared to 2 months ago.

    The irrational selling is more likely to be short lived than one driven by poor economic fundamentals. Hint people: the stock market is NOT the economy.
    The economic fundamentals were trending down *before* the virus.

    There are some big name companies who are going to be in a world of hurt if this lasts more than a couple of months. Ford, for example, has a huge debt service load, and if their run rate goes negative, they are going have to declare bankruptcy. Of course, they would be bailed out. Several airlines and (obviously) cruise ship companies are going to need bailouts as well. It is conceivable The Douchebag in Chief will slip the oil companies several hundred billion as well. After all, they are $250 Billion in the hole on debt coming due the next few years, and we cannot have them, or the banks holding their debt, suffer. The horror!

    But all of you working-class people sent home to self-quarantine for two weeks without a paycheck? You are just poor planners and irresponsible with your money. You can just stave and die.

  149. #149
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    But all of you working-class people sent home to self-quarantine for two weeks without a paycheck? You are just poor planners and irresponsible with your money. You can just stave and die.
    More inaccurate rhetoric.
    Just like your posts about COVID-19.
    Simply downright wrong.
    Speaks to the validity of your argument when you have to post such wildly exaggerated B.S.

    You can’t even decide if you want capitalism to fail or not in the same thread. Even in the same post for that matter.

  150. #150
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    This space intentionally left blank. We apologise for any inconvenience.

  151. #151
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    Lmao...

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Newsflash: There has never been in our lifetimes anything as communicable and deadly as COVID-19, so no, you have *not* worked around anything that even comes close, let alone was "considerably worse".
    This is how I know you are trolling.

    There have 100% been diseases more deadly just in the past few years and I don't think we really know how well it spreads just yet.

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  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Oz, not really sure what tour saying, but neither are you, so guess we’re even. There you go, a typo on purpose. I know they really send you into a loop.
    You turn every thread you partake in into a shit show.
    Oz, as you call him, exhibits nothing but trolling behavior. Pontifical, self-important- style trolling behavior.

    A troll is a good thing to practice your mindfulness on. Just let it go, or fuggedaboutit, whatever suits your style of response, Meat-man.
    Just call me Ray

  154. #154
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    Actually you might note that I respond, directly and specifically, rather than initiate in most cases.

    Then again, you might not......

    Interesting that in this thread you would not be able to identify the “Troll”.
    Hint: First Post

  155. #155
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    Good point Ray
    Round and round we go

  156. #156
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    LOL Corn, I never get tired of that American Chopper meme.
    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

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  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Wow, that is a predicament. I'm surprised they are still holding classes at all. Even a couple of US Universities have cancelled classroom instruction. Let's hope she gets out of there - the situation is dire, they don't have enough hospital capacity, and now doctors and nurses are dropping like flies.

    I read where Italy is on the verge of creating a cutoff age for treatment. Apparently, if you have a severe case of Covid-19 the key to survival is to be on a respirator, and they simply do not have enough for everyone. The age I heard was 80, if you are over 80 you are on your own to stay home and die, or get better. The UK is watching to decide how they will handle the situation. In the US? I'm sure it will be "money talks, bullshit walks".

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a9384356.html

    "One UK doctor said this latter point needed careful consideration by NHS hospitals, adding: “We need to be careful to have some ICU capacity for younger patients. This is where important difficult decisions need to be made.”
    Thanks for the additional information.

    My kid made it out of Florence on a 6 am flight this morning. In Germany, she was asked by passport control if she had traveled to China and that was it. She noticed on the arrivals board that the next 3 flights from Florence have been cancelled... lucky she got out when she did.

    She will be flying direct back home and we're going to have her self quarantine for 2-weeks.
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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    Thanks for the additional information.

    My kid made it out of Florence on a 6 am flight this morning. In Germany, she was asked by passport control if she had traveled to China and that was it. She noticed on the arrivals board that the next 3 flights from Florence have been cancelled... lucky she got out when she did.

    She will be flying direct back home and we're going to have her self quarantine for 2-weeks.
    Thank goodness she got out. If she were to get the virus, the situation there does not sound good.

    And thank you for doing the right thing and having her self-quarantine after she returns. Better safe than sorry.

  159. #159
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    I heard that people are stocking up on water.

    What the hell? Don't your faucets work?

    Also, my son's baseball games have been delayed.

    I'm thinking that the best response to the outbreak will be to get away from people by riding my bike out in the woods.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  160. #160
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    Yeah, gotta be a huge relief.
    Round and round we go

  161. #161
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    Something I don't understand regarding the panic and attention given to coronavirus is... why don't other illnesses, such as the flu, get the same attention?

    What's the latest... something like 4,000 coronavirus deaths so far worldwide? But checking stats at the CDC, it's estimated that the flu contributes to 9,000,000 to 45,000,000 illnesses, 140,000 to 810,000 hospitalizations, and 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually... just in the U.S. Worldwide, 250,000 to 500,000+ flu deaths annually. Even if those numbers are inflated, and are really only half of what they indicate, it's still a lot worse than coronavirus.

    So, I am probably oversimplifying things, but shouldn't we, the media, etc., get more excited about the flu than coronavirus? Looking at it from a numbers perspective, it seems obvious that the average person is more likely to catch and die from the flu than the coronavirus. Heck, we're all probably more likely to get sick from the dirty lime the bartender shoves into our Corona beer bottle.

    I don't know anyone with the coronavirus, but do know people with the flu. And not a one of them is concerned with having it, or about spreading it. Yet they're all freaked out about coronavirus. Obviously oblivious to the number of deaths caused by the flu.
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  162. #162
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    All talk of the market and economic catastrophe aside, because this whole thing will level out and eventually go away and the markets will pick up again, I was thinking about the travel and gathering restrictions, and whether they are necessary. It has been said that we are all likely to be exposed at some point in the perhaps not too distant future, so why not just let it happen and get it over with so our lives can go on?

    It was mentioned above already, but if this thing was allowed to spread unchecked, our health system would simply be unable to cope. Even if we allowed health workers to take our fearless (edit: meant to say FECKLESS) leader's advice and go to work even if feeling dodgy, the sheer numbers of people in need of intensive care could not be accommodated. Many more would die than if this thing was controlled as much as possible, and I for one think this consideration trumps all others. If your parent, grandparent, significant other, close family member, or even friend became seriously ill and in danger of death, I think anyone would be pissed if there was no way for them to receive treatment. To this list, I might add, yourself... Many of us here are no spring chickens, and many have underlying health issues that would put us in extreme danger.

    THAT is, and should be the major concern.


    BY the way, the latest Forensic Lab report has discovered the following physiological imperative:


    Coronavirus-88339907_3464393906964632_7168899612206432256_o.jpg
    It's all Here. Now.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I heard that people are stocking up on water.
    ...
    CDC and FEMA recommends every household have at least 2 weeks of water (per person) at all times. Your typical 21st Century American is behind the curve and is now trying to catch up.

    https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/eme...er-supply.html

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  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Something I don't understand regarding the panic and attention given to coronavirus is... why don't other illnesses, such as the flu, get the same attention?

    What's the latest... something like 4,000 coronavirus deaths so far worldwide? But checking stats at the CDC, it's estimated that the flu contributes to 9,000,000 to 45,000,000 illnesses, 140,000 to 810,000 hospitalizations, and 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually... just in the U.S. Worldwide, 250,000 to 500,000+ flu deaths annually. Even if those numbers are inflated, and are really only half of what they indicate, it's still a lot worse than coronavirus.

    So, I am probably oversimplifying things, but shouldn't we, the media, etc., get more excited about the flu than coronavirus? Looking at it from a numbers perspective, it seems obvious that the average person is more likely to catch and die from the flu than the coronavirus. Heck, we're all probably more likely to get sick from the dirty lime the bartender shoves into our Corona beer bottle.

    I don't know anyone with the coronavirus, but do know people with the flu. And not a one of them is concerned with having it, or about spreading it. Yet they're all freaked out about coronavirus. Obviously oblivious to the number of deaths caused by the flu.
    This viewpoint has been debated and argued over here and elsewhere ad nauseam. It is an invalid 'argument' at this stage of the game, for all kinds of reasons that you can read about here and elsewhere!
    It's all Here. Now.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Something I don't understand regarding the panic and attention given to coronavirus is... why don't other illnesses, such as the flu, get the same attention?

    What's the latest... something like 4,000 coronavirus deaths so far worldwide? But checking stats at the CDC, it's estimated that the flu contributes to 9,000,000 to 45,000,000 illnesses, 140,000 to 810,000 hospitalizations, and 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually... just in the U.S. Worldwide, 250,000 to 500,000+ flu deaths annually. Even if those numbers are inflated, and are really only half of what they indicate, it's still a lot worse than coronavirus.

    So, I am probably oversimplifying things, but shouldn't we, the media, etc., get more excited about the flu than coronavirus? Looking at it from a numbers perspective, it seems obvious that the average person is more likely to catch and die from the flu than the coronavirus. Heck, we're all probably more likely to get sick from the dirty lime the bartender shoves into our Corona beer bottle.

    I don't know anyone with the coronavirus, but do know people with the flu. And not a one of them is concerned with having it, or about spreading it. Yet they're all freaked out about coronavirus. Obviously oblivious to the number of deaths caused by the flu.


    I agree, lots of things we all encounter daily are much more dangerous, so far anyway. Over 4 million die each year from causes directly attributed to air pollution yet few give it a second thought. People don't seem to mind wearing masks and fretting about germs but give up their cars and other creature comforts? That's absurd!
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  166. #166
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    Anybody catch Amanpour last night? I've only recently started watching her and so far I'm a fan. Some very interesting points made and questions raised if paying attention.

    One thing that blew my mind is the pollution coming out of China stopped dead in it's tracks, gone, vanished. I know that was posted in the other thread but I basically didn't comprehend the overwhelming significance of that until I thought about it. The question was raised whether China is lying about it's infection rate going down. Watching the professional's physical reaction when they answer is informative. Likewise the reason we were so slow to test and still are was pretty much spelled out as well.

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  167. #167
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    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I live about a mile from that nursing home in WA. Oh lucky me.


    At least our traffic is much better lately.
    Please stay off MTBR for the sake of the rest of us...
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    One thing that blew my mind is the pollution coming out of China stopped dead in it's tracks, gone, vanished. I know that was posted in the other thread but I basically didn't comprehend the overwhelming significance of that until I thought about it. .

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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    Jim Baker said it was a sign from God.
    Word? So it is serious, shit.

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    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Something I don't understand regarding the panic and attention given to coronavirus is... why don't other illnesses, such as the flu, get the same attention?

    What's the latest... something like 4,000 coronavirus deaths so far worldwide? But checking stats at the CDC, it's estimated that the flu contributes to 9,000,000 to 45,000,000 illnesses, 140,000 to 810,000 hospitalizations, and 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually... just in the U.S. Worldwide, 250,000 to 500,000+ flu deaths annually. Even if those numbers are inflated, and are really only half of what they indicate, it's still a lot worse than coronavirus.

    So, I am probably oversimplifying things, but shouldn't we, the media, etc., get more excited about the flu than coronavirus? Looking at it from a numbers perspective, it seems obvious that the average person is more likely to catch and die from the flu than the coronavirus. Heck, we're all probably more likely to get sick from the dirty lime the bartender shoves into our Corona beer bottle.

    I don't know anyone with the coronavirus, but do know people with the flu. And not a one of them is concerned with having it, or about spreading it. Yet they're all freaked out about coronavirus. Obviously oblivious to the number of deaths caused by the flu.
    Honestly there are 3 big reasons IMO. One is that the mortality rate is much higher then flu. Even if we look at the South Korean mortality rate that is at, it is around 5 times more deadly then flu. Two it can be spread for a longer time before showing symptoms then flu. And three there is no vaccine.

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  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Something I don't understand regarding the panic and attention given to coronavirus is... why don't other illnesses, such as the flu, get the same attention?

    What's the latest... something like 4,000 coronavirus deaths so far worldwide? But checking stats at the CDC, it's estimated that the flu contributes to 9,000,000 to 45,000,000 illnesses, 140,000 to 810,000 hospitalizations, and 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually... just in the U.S. Worldwide, 250,000 to 500,000+ flu deaths annually. Even if those numbers are inflated, and are really only half of what they indicate, it's still a lot worse than coronavirus.

    So, I am probably oversimplifying things, but shouldn't we, the media, etc., get more excited about the flu than coronavirus? Looking at it from a numbers perspective, it seems obvious that the average person is more likely to catch and die from the flu than the coronavirus. Heck, we're all probably more likely to get sick from the dirty lime the bartender shoves into our Corona beer bottle.

    I don't know anyone with the coronavirus, but do know people with the flu. And not a one of them is concerned with having it, or about spreading it. Yet they're all freaked out about coronavirus. Obviously oblivious to the number of deaths caused by the flu.
    6th grade math:

    US population: 335,000,000
    MOST CONSERVATIVE estimate of communicability= 40% = .4
    MOST CONSERVATIVE estimate of mortality rate: .1% = .001

    Number of deaths: 335,000,000 * .4 * .001 = 134,000

    If we all go out licking doorknobs just to get it over with, the US healthcare system would be completely overwhelmed within two weeks. Then, you get in a car accident, what happens? You die on the side of the road because the ambulances are taking other people to the hospital. Or, you get to the hospital and you find out 40% of the health care workers are not there because they have the virus, and there are patients in the hallways and corridors coughing, shitting and blowing chunks with no one to clean it up.

    This is essentially the situation in Italy right now. It *was* the situation at the nursing home in Kirkland, WA before they flew in dozens of people from the CDC to take control.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    This is how I know you are trolling.

    There have 100% been diseases more deadly just in the past few years and I don't think we really know how well it spreads just yet.

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    Name the diseases in the US in the past few years that have killed 26 people in one nursing home, and infected over 40% of the workers?

    We know exactly how well it spreads. One person infected over 30 people in CT and NY. One person infected over 30 people at a conference in Boston.

    A woman from Australia partying in Aspen has now put presumed 12 cases there. She started getting sick so what did she do? She got on a plane and flew back home, where she was immediately tested and found to have the virus. Aspen doesn't want you to know this, BTW. The 12 people in lockdown are *not* going to be tested, because they are all under 30, and will probably not die. Hey, its Spring Break, don't want the party to stop.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Name the diseases in the US in the past few years that have killed 26 people in one nursing home, and infected over 40% of the workers?

    We know exactly how well it spreads. One person infected over 30 people in CT and NY. One person infected over 30 people at a conference in Boston.

    A woman from Australia partying in Aspen has now put presumed 12 cases there. She started getting sick so what did she do? She got on a plane and flew back home, where she was immediately tested and found to have the virus. Aspen doesn't want you to know this, BTW. The 12 people in lockdown are *not* going to be tested, because they are all under 30, and will probably not die. Hey, its Spring Break, don't want the party to stop.
    Except that is one sample case which does not prove anything. I could just as easily point to the first cruise as a similar case which had a much lower infection rate.

    I'd say South Korea is much better case to look at because they have had by far the most comprehensive testing in a country where you can trust the numbers. The mortality rate is .5% which is more deadly then the flu but not even close to the deadliest disease we have seen in our life time. SARS, MERS, Ebola are more deadly even if you take the Chinese number of 3.4% those diseases are still more deadly.

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  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Except that is one sample case which does not prove anything. I could just as easily point to the first cruise as a similar case which had a much lower infection rate.

    I'd say South Korea is much better case to look at because they have had by far the most comprehensive testing in a country where you can trust the numbers. The mortality rate is .5% which is more deadly then the flu but not even close to the deadliest disease we have seen in our life time. SARS, MERS, Ebola are more deadly even if you take the Chinese number of 3.4% those diseases are still more deadly.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    Yes, we totally have had epidemic levels of SARS, MERS and Ebola in the US.

  176. #176
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    Here is the *best* list of breaking news on coronanvirus that I have found:

    https://faithwashtub.livejournal.com/

  177. #177
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    The conference I was to attend in Tucson, at the University of Arizona, has been postponed until a time later this year. I would fly out from MN.

    During the current Spring break, there is talk about the possibility that not only will events on campus be canceled or postponed, but that classes will be online for the rest of the semester. One colleague told me this would happen 2 weeks ago, some are waiting/expecting an email at the end of the week.

    I'm a little annoyed honestly, I think it's gonna be sunny next week in Arizona.

    I agree with azimiut's wife.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  178. #178
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    These are valid and accurate points. I believe the information is very useful. In these parts (StL) its not unusual for an entire school or school district to have 60% of its students out during flu season.

    Most people in nursing homes (assisted living, longterm care) are already living on a "prayer". The stomach flu, too much sodium, insulin issues, and more are just as high of a threat to them.

    If I were an older at-risk adult, I'd quarantine myself (while I'm healthy) somewhere warm (Tucson?) until this all settles down. I read that the virus does not survive long (outside the human body) above 80F.

  179. #179
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    So you're telling me binge, that I should go to Tucson next week in order to survive?

    Well, not sure if Delta will refund and I do have the hotel booked...
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    These are valid and accurate points. I believe the information is very useful. In these parts (StL) its not unusual for an entire school or school district to have 60% of its students out during flu season.

    Most people in nursing homes (assisted living, longterm care) are already living on a "prayer". The stomach flu, too much sodium, insulin issues, and more are just as high of a threat to them.

    If I were an older at-risk adult, I'd quarantine myself (while I'm healthy) somewhere warm (Tucson?) until this all settles down. I read that the virus does not survive long (outside the human body) above 80F.
    Well, I am on an enforced quarantine in Tucson, (I live here), because all my events I am supposed to be working are canceled. All good until the $$$ runs out. My medical expenses for me and my wife are constant...
    It's all Here. Now.

  181. #181
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    It doesn't appear we'll take nearly the "draconian" measures other countries have taken to get out of ahead of this though. Not sure how that skews the calculus. As a third party observer it appears to me S Korea really took the bull by the horns as they say.

    Kirkland is somewhat local to me and I've watched many of the interviews with frantic family members trying to figure out what's up with their parents. Let's not forget these are people, family members, mother's and father's that are loved. 70 of the 180 staff came down with this and would likely be much higher if not for many of them simply not going to work. Overlay that across all our institutions and it's not difficult to arrive at some pretty dire circumstances.

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  182. #182
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    Johns Hopkins says we're 11.5 days behind Italy.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I heard that people are stocking up on water.

    What the hell? Don't your faucets work?

    I'm thinking that the best response to the outbreak will be to get away from people by riding my bike out in the woods.
    Exactly. However at my parents house I have noticed a significant increase in the levels of chlorine in the tap water. but that is fairly normal, with all the construction in the area the keep flushing the systems.

    That is why I love living on well water. It is mine and I control it. I have a 5K gallon underground water tank and backup power for the well. And if there is an issue with the main well we have 2 more on the property I can throw an extra gas powered pump on.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  184. #184
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    NY calling in the National Guard, here we go folks.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  185. #185
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    New Rochelle is now a "Petrie" dish. LMAO.

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    Exactly. However at my parents house I have noticed a significant increase in the levels of chlorine in the tap water. but that is fairly normal, with all the construction in the area the keep flushing the systems.

    That is why I love living on well water. It is mine and I control it. I have a 5K gallon underground water tank and backup power for the well. And if there is an issue with the main well we have 2 more on the property I can throw an extra gas powered pump on.
    Wells are great to have.

    I’m on city water. I can’t really see how this outbreak would affect municipal systems.

    That said, I do have a lot of stored water because I live in a high seismic risk area.

  187. #187
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    BTW home depot is selling toilet paper if you need any....
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  188. #188
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    Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo

    Choroquine as a Zinc ionophore in conjunction with zinc
    Apparently, hydroxychloroquine is currently being used in S. Korea

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    The economic fundamentals were trending down *before* the virus.
    Umm, much to the chagrin of administration detractors, GDP has been holding steady for last 3 quarters. Labor statistics are doing very well. Consumer confidence has recovered after the impeachment fiasco. So, exactly which economic fundamentals were trending down?

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    BTW home depot is selling toilet paper if you need any....
    That’s great until it comes time to wipe and you find out that it’s sand paper.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    That’s great until it comes time to wipe and you find out that it’s sand paper.
    sorry this isn't my department.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  192. #192
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    What does the Governor of the State of California have to say about the President’s response to COVID-19?

    "We had a private conversation, but he said, 'We're gonna do the right thing' and 'You have my support, all of our support, logistically and otherwise,'" Newsom told reporters at a Monday news conference.

    "He said everything I could have hoped for," the governor asserted. "And we had a very long conversation and every single thing he said, they followed through on," he noted.

    Newsom said that he has received "consistent" support from Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, who is leading the administration's response to the coronavirus outbreak.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    Exactly. However at my parents house I have noticed a significant increase in the levels of chlorine in the tap water. but that is fairly normal, with all the construction in the area the keep flushing the systems.

    That is why I love living on well water. It is mine and I control it. I have a 5K gallon underground water tank and backup power for the well. And if there is an issue with the main well we have 2 more on the property I can throw an extra gas powered pump on.
    Say again how you control what’s in your well water? Do you treat it? The only way to ensure perfectly pure water is a Reverse osmosis in-home purification system. No one has control of what is in their well water.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    That’s great until it comes time to wipe and you find out that it’s sand paper.
    Reminds me of some bathroom graffiti that I recall from college. Next to the toilet paper was written "Another fine abrasive brought to you by the 3M Company"

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    OK, ladies and gentlemen in the US, we are screwed. Even if "only* a couple thousand people end up dying, the economic damage is going to throw us into a recession as deep as the 2008-2009 meltdown.

    When every concert, every MLB game, every festival (Austin mayor just declared a public emergency to cancel SXSW - 80,000 attendees),and every school is closed, they are hauling dead bodies out of every nursing home by the dozen, no houses are sold, no plane tickets are sold, every tourist-oriented business in the country is seeing ZERO revenue, our inaction is going to look like what it is - stupid to the point of being criminal. We have had two months to prepare. Even people with clear symptoms can't get tested.

    Not to mention that virtually every manufacturer in the US is going to be negatively impacted because so much now comes from China.

    China and South Korea only have kind of gotten a handle on this by putting drastic measures into effect and quarantining entire areas. We can't even get any testing done to know if we need to quarantine anything.

    It is clear that the public officials have dropped the ball. They basically have thrown in the towel at this point and have decided that since they can't cure it and can't even test a significant number of people, they'll just bury the bodies. But hey, don't panic. Its only kind of like the flu (unless you are one of those old weaklings, or someone with an immune deficiency, then, well, you are expendable).

    What a clusterf*&ck.

    A month from now the US is going to be a very different place. Timer starts now.

    Is this Vladimir Putin or one of his bots?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    Say again how you control what’s in your well water? Do you treat it? The only way to ensure perfectly pure water is a Reverse osmosis in-home purification system. No one has control of what is in their well water.
    My wife and I, and our kids when they were still at home, have been drinking untreated well water from two different well,s for over 30 years. Water doesn't have to be "perfectly pure", in fact, RO removes a lot of minerals and things like fluoride.

    https://www.uwhealth.org/news/dr-jac...-systems/36710

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluecheesehead View Post
    reminds me of soyme bathroom graffiti that i recall from college. Next to the toilet paper was written "another fine abrasive brought to you by the 3m company"
    lol!

  198. #198
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    Here is an opinion. He is probably not as well informed as the average dude on a mountain biking forum, but take it for what it is worth:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ng_people.html

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    Say again how you control what’s in your well water? Do you treat it? The only way to ensure perfectly pure water is a Reverse osmosis in-home purification system. No one has control of what is in their well water.
    I do not control what is in the water but I have filters. 2 sediment filters, 5 stage RO, and nitrate filter. The water is tested ever 90 days at the lab my wife works at. I have control of the flow of water and I know what is in it from the ground to the filter. Biggest problem in our area is Arsenic 5 and Nitrates, after the filters they are well below the MCLs. It is much cleaner with less chemicals than most municipal sources.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    New Rochelle is now a "Petrie" dish. LMAO.
    I get it.

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    Rounding that corner like Jack Torrance in a hedge maze.

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