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  1. #1
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    Archaeology — Can Ya Dig It?

    I was going to post this in the Science thread but I think the subject is worthy of its own.

    There have been several cool discoveries popping up in the news lately -- interesting not just for the discoveries themselves but for the tools and techniques.

    Old-school:
    London’s oldest theatre discovered in East End excavation

    Ground-pounders:
    Ground-Penetrating Radar Reveals Entire Ancient Roman City

    Frickin' laser beams attached to their heads:
    Laser mapping reveals largest and oldest Mayan temple

    Anyone in the industry? Been on a dig? Found interesting stuff on your land or doing trail work? Been chased through a cave by a giant boulder or a million scarab beetles?
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  2. #2
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    If you don't mind, Where did you find this? I'm interested in these kind of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kofaram View Post
    If you don't mind, Where did you find this? I'm interested in these kind of things.
    The stories I posted? Just the past few days I've seen these 3 headlines pop up on various news sites I read.

    To start this thread I googled some keywords and found what I thought were the more informative articles. Some of google hits had links to actual journal articles.
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  4. #4
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    I was pretty sure the ancient Mayan temple was 1/2 mile under the surface of Antarctica… or at least that’s what I learned in Aliens vs. Predator.

    Please forgive my typographical errors, my left hand is half-retarded thanks to some stupid cake-desiring fat woman who threw her door into me on October 10 2019 whilst I was bike commuting into work. Typing is difficult since my hand became broken, and now many months later I have come to the conclusion that the surgeon is a ****ing retard whose head is stuffed up her stupid c**t ass.
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    I have been a fan since childhood.
    Have some pictures from around 5 or 6 years of age at Chucalissa.
    Also love to dig into the whole Mayan Culture.
    A great place to start is with “Incidents of Travel in Yucatán”.
    There are some incredible places to visit there.
    I have a book of the daguerreotype engravings of some of the sites from the 19th century.
    It was a lot of fun to compare them to the actual sites themselves in person on several trips down.
    This is a subject that is deep and wide.
    From the Cenotes to the top of the ruins at Coba.
    I’ll dig up some pictures.....
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  6. #6
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    Another great book details Alexander Von Humboldt‘s exploration of the Amazon....
    https://www.amazon.com/Personal-Narr...1904108&sr=8-9

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt


    The Wife at Tulum.
    And here is Catherwood’s old engraving from the 19th century.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -png-image-20.jpg  

    -a9e27584-4679-42a6-93e9-bf4f39fb65a4.jpeg  

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  7. #7
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    Coming off the top of the ruin at Coba. That was a high steep one. Not sure if you can still climb it. They stopped access due to people falling to their death now and again.
    The steps are very steep and narrow.

    The lakes in the distance are a croc hazard.



    Here’s one taken at the base of the ruin in the distance.
    A bit of a warm walk that day.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -png-image-21.jpg  

    -untitled-63.jpg  

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    It's pretty cool to look around your own state to see whats there. some states have more than others.

    Tonto National Monument, Roosevelt Lake, AZ
    -img_20190302_130022731_hdr.jpg
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    If anyone here is interested in Puebloan culture, aka “ Anasazi” as they were called by their enemies, read House of Rain. Various Native American cultures had pretty advanced understandings of astronomy, lunar cycles, etc. Built their villages such that the light of the moon would pass through multiple houses at certain points in the lunar calendar.

    To that end, I’ve poked around the American SW using high res multispectral imagery and “found” a couple of likely sites that don’t appear to be mapped by the states or the Feds.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    that don’t appear to be mapped by the states or the Feds.
    I know a lot of land managers intentionally avoid making that kind of information public. They want the sites to escape the notice of looters. Pretty sure if you were able to find those sites with some of that imagery, that others with ulterior motives have done so, as well. Unless, of course, you have access to classified stuff that others don't. But I know from experience how much of that stuff is freely available.

    An ancestor of mine (great great great somethingorother uncle) was the guy who used Homer's "The Iliad" to find the city of Troy. I have a couple biographies of him. He certainly wasn't a pure academic. Just a somewhat educated hobbyist who had enough money to spend enough time poking around in Turkey to find it. And he also sold a lot of what he found because first and foremost, he was a businessman. And of course that pissed off the academic community. Before and after discovering Troy, he made lots of money selling stuff.

  11. #11
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    My bookcases are loaded with books on archaeology and ancient/classical/medieval history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    My bookcases are loaded with books on archaeology and ancient/classical/medieval history.
    I think archaeology is near the top of my "in another life I'd do…" scenarios. I'm not sure what period or region would be of most interest but medieval Europe & Asia sound fascinating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    I think archaeology is near the top of my "in another life I'd do…" scenarios. I'm not sure what period or region would be of most interest but medieval Europe & Asia sound fascinating.
    Absolutely.

    I've always been fascinated by ruins, and the people who built them, lived in them and died in them.

    The area around our house is filled with old gold mining cabins, up in the Pike National Forest. Pretty cool to stop to eat, drop a wrapper, bend down to pick it up, and see a piece of a 150 year old gear from some sort of mining machinery. A time worn plank where no plank should naturally occur. That sort of thing.

    I love visiting the various Puebloan culture parks here in CO and NM. And the unofficial, off the grid stuff. There's a lot more stuff out there than most people know.
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  14. #14
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    I was watching this late last night, it showed up on my YouTube feed, guess I watch a lot of this kind of stuff, eh? Not sure how far I made it in, but I know my mind was blown at least a half dozen times, or moar!



    BTW I've always wanted to start a similar thread! Looking forward to spending some time here.
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    Sure it's a fascinating subject. Wish I had more time to study it, and agree with 'the one ring' that it's definition something I'd love to do professionally if I could start over.

    Gobekli Tepe is incredibly interesting, love how a discovery like that can lead to more questions then answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    I remember seeing a reference to this search method a few years back.
    The limestone used in construction of the Mayan sites imparts a signature in the jungle overgrowth that is detectable via satellite imagery.

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshal...06/06-018.html

    As an aside, I remember recognizing Tikal in a scene from Star Wars.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEL6gbAf9Pg
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  18. #18
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    Nice — SARchaeology.

    Here's a not-too-technical paper on the technology: http://www.unesco-hist.org/uploads/photos/1/9.pdf
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    I remember as a kid Grandaddy talking about Canyon de Chelly when he returned from his annual summer work in Arizona. I think that is part of what influenced him to plant all of those peach trees behind his house.
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  20. #20
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    Archaeology — Can Ya Dig It?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    I remember as a kid Grandaddy talking about Canyon de Chelly when he returned from his annual summer work in Arizona. I think that is part of what influenced him to plant all of those peach trees behind his house.
    Haven’t been there yet. Been to Mesa Verde and some of the stuff in NM.

    One of the most interesting things about that culture is how many of the sites were abandoned and re-occupied multiple times through out the centuries. Basically, the water came and went, and the people followed it.

    Hoping to get out to see some more sites this fall.


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  21. #21
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    When I was at college, I was the head of the 'Expedition Society'. We organized levels of trips around the world, from tent trips around Europe to learn fieldwork, to Mid level trips to mainly inhospitable yet interesting places to learn more advanced fieldwork, right up to full on scientific trips to focus on a particular thing.
    The main one I ended up going on myself in 1972 was an archeological/geological trip to the Elburz Mtns. sandwiched between Teheran and the Caspian Sea. This used to be the center of the original Nizari Isma'illi breakaway sect under Hassan-e-Sabah, AKA the Assassins.
    They were massive castle builders in some of the most inhospitable land in the country, and our task was to assess the potential capacity of populations sustainable, and to search for and map the castles and forts systems there. In our mule supported hikes around the Alamut Valley we met people who had never seen a western European, and the locals lived like they had for hundreds of years, no electricity, no contact with t he outside world. It was a big challenge just to get our gear and supplies in there.
    I personally discovered a way into the fabled castle of Maimun Diz, carved out of a vast mountain shoulder ending in 1500' cliffs. This had eluded some of the world's premier rock climbers on previous trips. I just asked a local shepherd boy if he knew a way in! He did. It involved about a 100' crack that terminated in a tunnel leading to the interior. I had to do the shimmy all the way up, back against one side, hands and feet the other. The place has since been mapped, and explored, with passages, galleries, libraries, living quarters etc all hewn into the rock. History dictates that scholars would come from all over the known world to study there.

    here's a couple of links:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan-i_Sabbah
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maymun-Diz
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    Wow.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I just asked a local shepherd boy if he knew a way in! He did.
    Beautiful, I'm sure that dozens of generations of kids passed that info down to one another with the passage of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Beautiful, I'm sure that dozens of generations of kids passed that info down to one another with the passage of time.
    Yeah really! 2 years before our expedition, our leader who was a world expert on this sect and area, had taken a famous British climber, Joe Brown to try and find a way up to the tunnel entrances visible in the cliff face. He was beaten by the rock face consistency, and gave up after several days of trying. If only that kid had been there. Or he might have been just out of sight giggling at the failed attempts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Yeah really! 2 years before our expedition, our leader who was a world expert on this sect and area, had taken a famous British climber, Joe Brown to try and find a way up to the tunnel entrances visible in the cliff face. He was beaten by the rock face consistency, and gave up after several days of trying. If only that kid had been there. Or he might have been just out of sight giggling at the failed attempts!
    No substitute for a little genuine humility in the right time and place.
    Great story.
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  26. #26
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    That's amazing stuff, RC! I've long had an interest in that place and that era.
    Excellent Wiki references. Much enjoyed!

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    My grandmother taught archaeology and anthropology at the college level. I was trapsed all over the Southweast and have found all sorts of stuff. It's easy to pick up on man made objects after a while. One of the more interesting things I've found were oyster shells in a midden at 13000 feet on the east side of the Sierra. The Tubatulaba were obviously trading with the Chemehuevi. Probably for obsidian.
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    Archaeology — Can Ya Dig It?

    Vader, you should read House of Rain. Pretty interesting book. If nothing else, it’s an excellent compendium of places to go.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Vader, you should read House of Rain. Pretty interesting book. If nothing else, it’s an excellent compendium of places to go.


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    Thanks. I ordered it. I find their culture facinating and Chaco Canyon is on the bucket list
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  30. #30
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    If you have t already been and get the chance, Walnut canyon just west of Flagstaff is incredible. Many well preserved Pueblo cliff dwellings in a most spectacular setting
    It's all Here. Now.

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    I’m currently enjoying this:


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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    If you have t already been and get the chance, Walnut canyon just west of Flagstaff is incredible. Many well preserved Pueblo cliff dwellings in a most spectacular setting
    I took my family out west a couple of summers ago and we enjoyed Walnut Canyon.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I’m currently enjoying this:

    Thanks for the tip.
    Just ordered it.
    Along those lines.....

    https://www.historyextra.com/period/...ial-key-dates/
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  34. #34
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    Been nosing around google, and found a couple of recent photos of the Alamut Valley and castles. Of course, since we were there. the rulers have developed the valley as a religious shrine almost, or at least a venerated part of their history. There are roads in, trails built, and many visitors. None of this was there in '72.

    This is the rock of Maimun Diz from the approach. The one arrow indicates the start of the crack I was shown, still hidden it seems behind a little tree. After a shimmy inside, this came out into an internal passageway, that dropped down a little to where the second arrow indicates the tunnel entrance to the air. I sat with my legs dangling, having a cuppa and snack! The view was incredible! I was not equipped to do much exploring, and when I almost tipped into the partially obscured opening to what sounded like a very deep well, I took my leave.


    -dscn1187.jpg


    This picture is taken from the north side of what is left of Alamut Castle itself. Recently they have built trails to climb up to it, (very difficult when we were there), and restored a part of the ruined structure. Just to the left and slghtly below the arrow is a huge pile of rubble that was not there when we visited. This will allow access to the west end of the rock (to the right) a lot more easily than before. One day I managed to get over to that part along the tops, and I saw the cave entrances there. These were obviously very important in some way, but the only way across the steep gulley to get to them was over a narrow, 12th C brick archway, crumbling with age. If you zoom in you can just about see it indicated by the arrow. It is deceptive in this pic, but at that time there was an awful lot of fresh air under there. I was young, dumb, and full of youthful bravado, so just ran as lightly as possible across. There were still signs of water and food storage in the cave, so it was indeed important, but my colleagues were happy to wait til the Iranian Army engineer was summoned to put a temporary 'bridge' across. My return journey was a LOT more circumspect, but I figured if the thing had stood for 500 years, it'd probably be OK!


    -up543421460196944_image057.jpg

    The whole trip and preparation was life-defining for me. Putting rock tours together after this was a breeze!
    It's all Here. Now.

  35. #35
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    Great pictures, stories, and context RC.
    Best prep for a rock tour is a rock tour......

    Something is lost when something is found by so many.
    The changes at Tulum to improve access necessitated more changes to protect.
    We managed to slip in there one morning before anyone else.
    And that was a well worn easy access place.
    I expect it would take quite a bit more time and money to see what I’d like to see in the Yucatán in the way I’d like to. Early mornings and late evenings with little or no company.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Great pictures, stories, and context RC.
    Best prep for a rock tour is a rock tour......

    Something is lost when something is found by so many.
    The changes at Tulum to improve access necessitated more changes to protect.
    We managed to slip in there one morning before anyone else.
    And that was a well worn easy access place.
    I expect it would take quite a bit more time and money to see what I’d like to see in the Yucatán in the way I’d like to. Early mornings and late evenings with little or no company.
    Plenty of rock in Alamut indeed!

    Wife and I holidayed in tulum in ‘07, and visited the temples one day. Amazing place, and I’d love to explore more too 😊
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I’m currently enjoying this:

    My current read.
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    https://mymodernmet.com/ancient-roman-mosaic-verona/

    I love this kind of stuff. Italy and surrounding areas are amazing for this kind of thing. Continuously inhabited regions in Europe just have layer upon layer of history. I think the most amazing thing about this find is the condition of the find. It looks like someone spilled a huge load of dirt in a modern bathroom.

    I always feel for the more ephemeral cultures that didn't have such a hard architectural tradition, as their histories end up more lost to time through erosion and reclamation.
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    Those mosaics are incredible. Like you say, the juxtaposition of the fine, clean work against the deep dirt covering them is almost magical.....

    -495ad1b5-e039-4be8-ad61-b5745097f27e.jpeg

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    If you have t already been and get the chance, Walnut canyon just west of Flagstaff is incredible. Many well preserved Pueblo cliff dwellings in a most spectacular setting
    there are so many cool places out and around flagstaff. It is a shame that so many people I know who have lived in AZ their whole lives know nothing about areas like that.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    there are so many cool places out and around flagstaff. It is a shame that so many people I know who have lived in AZ their whole lives know nothing about areas like that.
    Poking around some unamed ruins in Oak Creek. The whorls from the their fingerprints were visible in the mortar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Poking around some unamed ruins in Oak Creek. The whorls from the their fingerprints were visible in the mortar
    Sort of a magical, ethereal connection that seems to compress time....
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Sort of a magical, ethereal connection that seems to compress time....
    I like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    Sort of a magical, ethereal connection that seems to compress time....
    It's always amazing to me how you can find a corn cob, or a rope, or feathers inside a perfectly intact structure that someone left there 1000 years ago in some places, but in others, the only thing left is barely discernible mound.
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  45. #45
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    This is a really cool thread. I bought “House of Rain” for my Kindle app...love interesting subjects like this. Thanks for all the info!


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    Go Fact Yourself.

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    CNN link=fake news.
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    It's amazing how stuff like that can exist, near a known site, and go undetected for hundreds of years.
    Just call me Ray

  49. #49
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    The vast majority of people are not concerned at all with the past or the future.

    Only today.
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  50. #50
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    The Guardian usually has decent archaeology coverage, though the claim that is unique/new evidence of numeracy are getting beat up by professionals on Twitter. This graphic accompanies their story.


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    Go Fact Yourself.

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    Cliff Collapse Reveals 313-million-year-old Fossil Footprints in Grand Canyon National Park

    https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/news/...ional-park.htm

  53. #53
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    I went to Drumheller Alberta a few months ago which was really cool. Even though it was minus 20 and I was only in the museum.

    Here on Vancouver Island we have a bunch of sedimentary rocks on the beach nearby where I go jogging, I need to look through those better. And apparently on Hornby Island there are megalodon teeth fossils. I got some clam and mussel fossils from the river bank several years ago.
    All I am saying is give pizza chants

  54. #54
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    Sea diving here in the NE you can find megalodon teeth all day, big ones, if you know where to look. Pretty freakin amazing how big a tooth can be.

    https://youtu.be/V-OYKd8SVrI
    Round and round we go

  55. #55
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    Just finished rereading this. I enjoyed it.


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