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  1. #1
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    Accuracy of Covid Testing

    Was speaking with a friend earlier and he told me a story...

    He went to get tested, signed in and provide all the info they need but when he was told there would be a 3 hour wait he said screw it and left.. 3 days later he gets a letter in the mail informing him he had tested positive.


    We're hosed. I don't think anyone knows whats going on. Definitely the case data is obviously suspect at the least. How do we know if the cases are increasing or decreasing with this kind of mismanagement.

  2. #2
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    I've been tested twice now. I was just informed that the rate of false negatives is 20 to 30%.
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  3. #3
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    Iíve tested 5 times. Positive the first 4, waiting for results on the 5th. Had results within 24 hrs every time. I had no symptoms except loss of smell. Isolated for 10 days after testing positive.

    Had to test the 1st time before surgery to repair a severed tendon in my thumb. I canít have surgery until I test negative. Itís been 3.5 weeks since my first test.


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Was speaking with a friend earlier and he told me a story...

    He went to get tested, signed in and provide all the info they need but when he was told there would be a 3 hour wait he said screw it and left.. 3 days later he gets a letter in the mail informing him he had tested positive.
    Funny, I know someone here in Phoenix that had the same thing happen to him and his wife. They even showed me the letter they received in the mail from the state that they were found to be positive yet never tested.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  5. #5
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    My buddy is a ranking cop with the Scottsdale Police Department... He said he sent a note to the Mayor to report the messed up process.

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    I wouldn't call that accuracy.....

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    My buddy is a ranking cop with the Scottsdale Police Department... He said he sent a note to the Mayor to report the messed up process.
    They reported it to the Arizona Dept of Public Health since their work was also notified that they were tested positive after not being tested.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

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    Phillbo, your expectations of humanity are far too high. Ease up some.

    The test result you are looking for is NEGATIVE. It's as simple as that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Phillbo, your expectations of humanity are far too high. Ease up some.

    The test result you are looking for is NEGATIVE. It's as simple as that.
    Not really, did you read his original post and absorb it? I agree with Phillbo, if is what really happened. Pretty much screwed on accurate results if this is happening across the board.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Phillbo, your expectations of humanity are far too high. Ease up some.

    The test result you are looking for is NEGATIVE. It's as simple as that.

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    I was told by our hospital that the tests were only 60% accurate, probably less when you donít even take the test and are told you are positive.

  12. #12
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    Relax guys. Do your part to protect your health and the health of others, and everything will be fine. Test results be damned.

    I'm not hosed and neither are you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Relax guys. Do your part to protect your health and the health of others, and everything will be fine. Test results be damned.
    Great advice

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Relax guys. Do your part to protect your health and the health of others, and everything will be fine. Test results be damned.
    I agree that everyone should be doing our part to protect ourselves & those around us. The challenge is trying to make the best decisions based on the info we have, when that info may or may not be accurate. Iím also a high school teacher, & opening school in August depends to some degree on the data from testing collected by the health department. If that data is inaccurate, we are putting teachers, students, & their families at risk.


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  15. #15
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    You may need to get tested more than once:

    Accuracy of Covid Testing-covid-test.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    I agree that everyone should be doing our part to protect ourselves & those around us. The challenge is trying to make the best decisions based on the info we have, when that info may or may not be accurate. Iím also a high school teacher, & opening school in August depends to some degree on the data from testing collected by the health department. If that data is inaccurate, we are putting teachers, students, & their families at risk.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    You may need to get tested more than once:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Same nurse, same place, every time, right?

  18. #18
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    To me it is not just about trying to be safe for yourself and those around you,but the legitimacy of the information we are being given. I wear a mask, I have for years for work. Nothing new to me. I'm more afraid of valley fever digging in dirt all day.

    How can they claim the information they are providing to be accurate without accurate results? My wife works in an environmental lab. The tests have to be run numerous amounts of times before they are allowed to provide an adequate result.

    They are playing dice and guessing the results for covid. But it comes back to what phillbo and I both said. How are people being noted as positive without a test? You can wear a hazmat suit for he next six months or never leave your house again. register for a test without being tested and told you were positive. How does that help anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    To me it is not just about trying to be safe for yourself and those around you,but the legitimacy of the information we are being given. I wear a mask, I have for years for work. Nothing new to me. I'm more afraid of valley fever digging in dirt all day.

    How can they claim the information they are providing to be accurate without accurate results? My wife works in an environmental lab. The tests have to be run numerous amounts of times before they are allowed to provide an adequate result.

    They are playing dice and guessing the results for covid. But it comes back to what phillbo and I both said. How are people being noted as positive without a test? You can wear a hazmat suit for he next six months or never leave your house again. register for a test without being tested and told you were positive. How does that help anyone?
    People can be told that they tested positive (who had registered to get the test) without even testing, by accident. We are flawed and imperfect. People make mistakes like this all of the time.

    There is another reason why somebody would get a positive test result (who had registered but did not have the test done). But it's a controversial thing that is as crooked as anything could be and I don't want to go there to fuel the flames of this COVID thing. But oh yes, it's real. And it's shameful.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    People can be told that they tested positive (who had registered to get the test) without even testing, by accident. We are flawed and imperfect. People make mistakes like this all of the time.

    There is another reason why somebody would get a positive test result (who had registered but did not have the test done). But it's a controversial thing that is as crooked as anything could be and I don't want to go there to fuel the flames of this COVID thing. But oh yes, it's real. And it's shameful.
    I understand that there are flaws, but for something so serious I would hope it had more quality assurance on the testing. Being told you are positive without a test, someone finds out at your work, you are dismissed from your job and requiring a test again not knowing if you can trust the test results for the first second time is not right. At my wife's job, mistakes are not tolerated. If a mistake is found the tests are re-run immediately. no excuses. If a sample is left out for a second beyond hold time, a new sample is required or results are not given, not a guess.

    In all seriousness I blame the pentaverate. they are controlling everything.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  21. #21
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    2020 like
    https://youtu.be/nAdniWncWu4

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    that was so bad my wife told me to stop it... so I played the whole thing.

    When you have to explain to your children what it was like in 2020
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    that was so bad my wife told me to stop it... so I played the whole thing.
    Lol! Foreign films make me cultured.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Lol! Foreign films make me cultured.

    what I said could be contrived into many things, lol.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  25. #25
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    I died from COVID 19 but I got better.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I died from COVID 19 but I got better.

    you got better? I would burn her anyway
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I died from COVID 19 but I got better.
    You still look and smell dead, though.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    what I said could be contrived into many things, lol.
    Lol, nice one.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    You still look and smell dead, though.
    Im not dead yet...
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    People can be told that they tested positive (who had registered to get the test) without even testing, by accident. We are flawed and imperfect. People make mistakes like this all of the time.

    There is another reason why somebody would get a positive test result (who had registered but did not have the test done). But it's a controversial thing that is as crooked as anything could be and I don't want to go there to fuel the flames of this COVID thing. But oh yes, it's real. And it's shameful.
    That's not a mistake, that's being done on purpose.

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  31. #31
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    Finally got my son and my test results from July 8th back today, July 26th; both negative. On the night of July 5th, he got violently ill, vomiting multiple times (no, Picard is not my son), headache, high fever. It lasted about four days. I hadn't been around him much at all but my wife insisted I quarantine as well and I was fine the whole time.

    So now we can't figure out what he had, he had only eaten the same as the rest of the family. And he hadn't been going out, other than his lifeguard job which is the only place he could have caught it. He retested at a different place on the 21st; we got that result yesterday and it was negative.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Finally got my son and my test results from July 8th back today, July 26th; both negative. On the night of July 5th, he got violently ill, vomiting multiple times (no, Picard is not my son), headache, high fever. It lasted about four days. I hadn't been around him much at all but my wife insisted I quarantine as well and I was fine the whole time.

    So now we can't figure out what he had, he had only eaten the same as the rest of the family. And he hadn't been going out, other than his lifeguard job which is the only place he could have caught it. He retested at a different place on the 21st; we got that result yesterday and it was negative.
    That is odd. My aunt has tested positive, and was showing symptoms. 2 of her daughters, and a granddaughter, all showed symptoms as well, which makes sense because they had all been together, gone to the same places. Strangely they ALL tested negative, as did my uncle. Makes zero sense.


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  33. #33
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    I had similar symptoms Chaz but only lasted 2.5ish days with liquid diarrhea. I talked to a general practitioner doctor friend of mine to which she immediately responded "sounds like a norovirus". Reading up on that fit my symptoms to a T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I had similar symptoms Chaz but only lasted 2.5ish days with liquid diarrhea. I talked to a general practitioner doctor friend of mine to which she immediately responded "sounds like a norovirus". Reading up on that fit my symptoms to a T.

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    Well, part of his job being a lifeguard was cleaning the bathrooms so maybe he picked it up from there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Well, part of his job being a lifeguard was cleaning the bathrooms so maybe he picked it up from there.
    I'm going to scratch Lifeguard off the list as a possible future job.

  36. #36
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    omfg that is hilarious. What a circus. My Bayesian models come up with a 5-15% chance of actually having the virus given a positive test. But I didn't take into account the testers just making things up. I'm going to have to modify it.

  37. #37
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    There is some accuracy
    If not tested you can be 100% sure you donít know if you have or had this virus
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    There is some accuracy
    If not tested you can be 100% sure you donít know if you have or had this virus
    True, but does uncertainty give us hope or does it give us doubt?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    True, but does uncertainty give us hope or does it give us doubt?
    Hmm, thatís deep
    In terms of containing or squashing this virus, the more ppl that have it the less important testing is. Harder to trace and contain if too many cases. As a learning tool about how this virus works testing is helpful whenever.
    Last edited by theMeat; 07-27-2020 at 04:14 PM.
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    I'm off to get tested for the 2nd time in 2 weeks. Nothing wrong with the test, it's just that the surgical procedure I was scheduled for did not include an anesthesiologist.
    I'm not about to lay still for an hour or whatever while I listen to the OR banter. It's 'prolly like the OC, only I can't say anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    Iíve tested 5 times. Positive the first 4, waiting for results on the 5th. Had results within 24 hrs every time. I had no symptoms except loss of smell. Isolated for 10 days after testing positive.

    Had to test the 1st time before surgery to repair a severed tendon in my thumb. I canít have surgery until I test negative. Itís been 3.5 weeks since my first test.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Was speaking with a friend earlier and he told me a story...

    He went to get tested, signed in and provide all the info they need but when he was told there would be a 3 hour wait he said screw it and left.. 3 days later he gets a letter in the mail informing him he had tested positive.


    We're hosed. I don't think anyone knows whats going on. Definitely the case data is obviously suspect at the least. How do we know if the cases are increasing or decreasing with this kind of mismanagement.
    That'll teach him!
    Just call me Ray

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Was speaking with a friend earlier and he told me a story...

    He went to get tested, signed in and provide all the info they need but when he was told there would be a 3 hour wait he said screw it and left.. 3 days later he gets a letter in the mail informing him he had tested positive.


    We're hosed. I don't think anyone knows whats going on. Definitely the case data is obviously suspect at the least. How do we know if the cases are increasing or decreasing with this kind of mismanagement.

    I feel like much is missing from this story.

    Where did he register at? Did he speak to the leadership at said location to find out why he was given a positive result when he never did a test?

    There is no incentive for anyone to fake false positives. I work at Children's hospital that is providing free testing to all patients who come here no matter why they come in along with testing for parents. There is no huge spike in cases from any of that testing.

    Makes me think his results were mistakenly swapped with someone that did test positive.

    Trust me that the Hospitals want this pandemic to be done ASAP. Our organization is losing thousands of dollars each day because our clinics are not able to see the volume of patients we could before the pandemic hit. Also the number of elective surgeries is down from the same thing.

    There is no conspiracy from the medical world to keep the pandemic in full swing, quite the opposite really.

    I was speaking to a nurse in our medical unit who lacks tact in a big way. She was complaining that all the stay at home orders means the medical unit is not as full as it normally would be (this was back in April) and the Hospital is losing money because with all the Kids at home they stopped spreading the flu virus and other illnesses around. While the place I work does wonders for sick kids, it does make good money off overnight stays in the medical unit. There are more healthy kids now then at any time in the past due to the shutdown of schools this year.
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  44. #44
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    If they count someone who died in a motorcycle crash as a Covid death, I would not be surprised if they had intentional fake positive tests too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I feel like much is missing from this story.

    Where did he register at? Did he speak to the leadership at said location to find out why he was given a positive result when he never did a test?

    There is no incentive for anyone to fake false positives. I work at Children's hospital that is providing free testing to all patients who come here no matter why they come in along with testing for parents. There is no huge spike in cases from any of that testing.

    Makes me think his results were mistakenly swapped with someone that did test positive.

    Trust me that the Hospitals want this pandemic to be done ASAP. Our organization is losing thousands of dollars each day because our clinics are not able to see the volume of patients we could before the pandemic hit. Also the number of elective surgeries is down from the same thing.

    There is no conspiracy from the medical world to keep the pandemic in full swing, quite the opposite really.

    I was speaking to a nurse in our medical unit who lacks tact in a big way. She was complaining that all the stay at home orders means the medical unit is not as full as it normally would be (this was back in April) and the Hospital is losing money because with all the Kids at home they stopped spreading the flu virus and other illnesses around. While the place I work does wonders for sick kids, it does make good money off overnight stays in the medical unit. There are more healthy kids now then at any time in the past due to the shutdown of schools this year.
    Unfortunately, there is a monetary funding incentive to create false positives. It's all about money.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Unfortunately, there is a monetary funding incentive to create false positives. It's all about money.
    how so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    If they count someone who died in a motorcycle crash as a Covid death, I would not be surprised if they had intentional fake positive tests too.
    Can you provide details of this? This is the second time on social media I have heard of s motorcycle accident that has been listed as covid yet when I ask there is usually deathly silence.

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    Ah yes, Florida man. You know that is an outdated report and the man has been removed from the Covid deaths. At the time of his death, and the initial reports, there was discussion as to whether the Covid caused him to crash. The initial confusion came because the CDC instructs caregivers to list various factors contributing to death in appropriate sections of death certificates. Contributing factors aren't necessarily cause of death but I see how it plays into the conspiracy theorists playbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    Ah yes, Florida man. You know that is an outdated report and the man has been removed from the Covid deaths. At the time of his death, and the initial reports, there was discussion as to whether the Covid caused him to crash. The initial confusion came because the CDC instructs caregivers to list various factors contributing to death in appropriate sections of death certificates. Contributing factors aren't necessarily cause of death but I see how it plays into the conspiracy theorists playbook.
    It definitely gives fuel to the conspiracy theorists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    It definitely gives fuel to the conspiracy theorists
    May take time, if ever, we figure out true numbers. While some places likely counting non covid deaths as covid, Florida looms large in places where the opposite, undercounting is happening
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Unfortunately, there is a monetary funding incentive to create false positives. It's all about money.
    Considering my hospital is funding the cost of the testing for patients and the patients parents, there is ZERO incentive to falsify results.

    As stated before, this Pandemic is Horrible for our Hospitals financials.

    No one benefits from this pandemic. No one.
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    New blood test coming out of Australia can provide test result in 20 mins...

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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    New blood test coming out of Australia can provide test result in 20 mins...

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    Yes but the accuracy is way down from memory around 60% but I can't find that now. It also shows "antibodies" so only picks up if you've had it, not if you currently have it. Great for retrospective tracing but not that great for working out who to isolate.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    Great for retrospective tracing but not that great for working out who to isolate.
    Is it clear the PCR or antigen tests are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Is it clear the PCR or antigen tests are?

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    Probably not given the delay in getting results and the % inaccuracy.

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    Seems like we can always count on Florida for the shenanigans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Considering my hospital is funding the cost of the testing for patients and the patients parents, there is ZERO incentive to falsify results.

    As stated before, this Pandemic is Horrible for our Hospitals financials.

    No one benefits from this pandemic. No one.
    Something is wrong when hospitals loose money and/or lay off staff in time of pandemic
    Round and round we go

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    No one benefits from this pandemic. No one.
    The people up top benefit from everything, pandemics included, actually, it seems the pandemic has been very good to them.

    American billionaires are now nearly 20% richer ó by $565 billion, to be exact ó than they were at the start of the coronavirus pandemic...
    https://www.businessinsider.com/bill...andemic-2020-6

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Something is wrong when hospitals loose money and/or lay off staff in time of pandemic
    Hospitals are basically a very small city. We were able to move a number of administrative departments off-site to work from home, either via Company Laptops, Company Desktops or personal devices using remote software to get in to network resources.

    My Job in IT has not slowed down, quote the opposite, I have been super busy.

    With one of our Medical Units closed our Facilities team has taken advantage of the empty rooms to do some renovations, so those guys are extra busy. Plus when everything first hit they were working overtime to get up Plexiglas shielding for all the registration desks, or any place where employee's come into contact with many people a day.

    We are losing money specifically from a lower number of surgeries and a lower census. The stay at home orders work, social distancing and mask wearing works, that is why the Hospital is losing money. Less physical interaction out in the public reduces the spread of not just Covid19, but also the spread of colds and the flu virus and other diseases that transmit via human contact.

    I am not sure why you think something is wrong, the logic is clear to me, more healthy people means less need for hospitals.

    This time of year is normally Surgery Season as the flu season winds down in April, I believe the number of Surgeries is actually up now. Our current census for the surgical floor is 33 of 44 beds full. That floor is for kids who are recovering from any surgery and could need a single day for observation before they go home, or multiple days.

    The stay at home orders, as painful as they are, have been a good thing for overall physical health. Many older people I know who are diligent about not going out are healthier than every before because they are not exposed to so many different illnesses.

    How it is effecting mental heath is a different thing all together.

    I really hope the Vaccines are proven soon and we can get back to a normal way of living.

    Again, I work at a non-profit children's Hospital, I cannot speak to how the local adult hospitals are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    The people up top benefit from everything, pandemics included, actually, it seems the pandemic has been very good to them.



    https://www.businessinsider.com/bill...andemic-2020-6

    Again, there is no incentive for the non-profit children's hospital I work at to provide fake results.

    The rich getting richer is not due to faked results.

    The idea that thousands of hospitals and testing labs are jointly faking results to help the rich get richer is very far fetched.

    It blows my mind that anyone thinks the Global Medical Community is performing a scam on all the population of Earth when there is no positive benefit for them to do so is staggering. That is Flat Earth Staggering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    The people up top benefit from everything, pandemics included, actually, it seems the pandemic has been very good to them.



    https://www.businessinsider.com/bill...andemic-2020-6

    Rich people see opportunities and seize them. The pandemic created a lot of opportunities. Lot of money moving around

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Again, there is no incentive for the non-profit children's hospital I work at to provide fake results.
    Certainly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The rich getting richer is not due to faked results.
    I don't believe there is any sort of widespread "faked result" campaign going on. I won't deny that there are some erroneous positive results out there, but I firmly believe those are accidental not intentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The idea that thousands of hospitals and testing labs are jointly faking results to help the rich get richer is very far fetched.
    It most certainly is, do you know anyone that subscribes to this theory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    ...That is Flat Earth Staggering.
    I ride enough hills on my bike to know the earth is not flat ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I don't believe there is any sort of widespread "faked result" campaign going on. I won't deny that there are some erroneous positive results out there, but I firmly believe those are accidental not intentional.
    Agreed. There was some verbiage in this thread implying that results were being faked on purpose.

    It most certainly is, do you know anyone that subscribes to this theory?
    Not personally, thank goodness.

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    Arizona subtracted positive case from miscount

    its just one case, but how many more could be miscounted?
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    Arizona subtracted positive case from miscount

    its just one case, but how many more could be miscounted?
    I clicked on that link and this was the headline:

    "Arizona health department reduces total coronavirus death count by 1"

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    exactly. someone was counted twice. that is not accurate
    Accuracy of Covid Testing-cv.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    My wife works in an environmental lab. The tests have to be run numerous amounts of times before they are allowed to provide an adequate result.
    I use an environmental lab on a near daily basis. They really do a great job of QA/QC and have to meet state certification. I'm guessing that the Covid labs are nearly overwhelmed with samples. Maybe biological agents are more difficult to achieve accuracy than toxic chemicals?
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    That is actually what my wife does there, she is the QA/QC Director. I think it is just the number of tests they are running and who is conducting them. I'm not saying they are intentionally saying people are positive, but just general accuracy. It is more scary to think how many are positive and reported negative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    That is actually what my wife does there, she is the QA/QC Director. I think it is just the number of tests they are running and who is conducting them. I'm not saying they are intentionally saying people are positive, but just general accuracy. It is more scary to think how many are positive and reported negative.
    Yeah, the 20 to 30% false negative rate is quite worrisome. It would seem that would make it more difficult to control the spread of the virus when you have that many false negatives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    Good luck on that, Frog. Did you notice the loss of your ability to smell?
    It wasnít until after I was out of isolation that I noticed it. I couldnít really smell bleach cleaner when I was cleaning the bathroom, or minced garlic when I was cooking. Itís getting better, but still not 100%.

    Itís been a month since I tested positive the 1st time. I just tested a week ago for the 6th time, & Iím still positive. Iím testing once a week until Iím negative. Still waiting for surgery on my thumb.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    It wasnít until after I was out of isolation that I noticed it. I couldnít really smell bleach cleaner when I was cleaning the bathroom, or minced garlic when I was cooking. Itís getting better, but still not 100%.

    Itís been a month since I tested positive the 1st time. I just tested a week ago for the 6th time, & Iím still positive. Iím testing once a week until Iím negative. Still waiting for surgery on my thumb.


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    a good friend of mine got sick a few weeks ago and tested positive. He had a mild case and was able to stay home for a week and live in his travel trailer to stay away from his wife n kids. After a week of isolation his doctor said he was fine to return to living in the home again. Last week he went in for recovery testing and tested Negative. Are you getting a specific test for recovery testing that keeps showing you are not recovered?

    I hate that there are so many different types of tests made by different companies. Feels like the science behind testing still has a ways to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    a good friend of mine got sick a few weeks ago and tested positive. He had a mild case and was able to stay home for a week and live in his travel trailer to stay away from his wife n kids. After a week of isolation his doctor said he was fine to return to living in the home again. Last week he went in for recovery testing and tested Negative. Are you getting a specific test for recovery testing that keeps showing you are not recovered?

    I hate that there are so many different types of tests made by different companies. Feels like the science behind testing still has a ways to go.
    The 2 healthcare networks Iíve been tested at both use the PCR test. Iíve been told by the health department that the test can pick up dead virus no longer able to reproduce. The no surgery without a negative test is a hospital/surgical center policy. Itís seems out of sync with the State health department guidelines.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    The 2 healthcare networks Iíve been tested at both use the PCR test. Iíve been told by the health department that the test can pick up dead virus no longer able to reproduce. The no surgery without a negative test is a hospital/surgical center policy. Itís seems out of sync with the State health department guidelines.


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    My buddy ran into a similar odd issue. His work requires the negative recovery test to go back, but because the CDC modified that Kaiser did not want to give him the recovery test.....

    He convinced the person at kaiser to allow him to test anyway so he could go back to work.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    My buddy ran into a similar odd issue. His work requires the negative recovery test to go back, but because the CDC modified that Kaiser did not want to give him the recovery test.....

    He convinced the person at kaiser to allow him to test anyway so he could go back to work.
    I appreciate the info, Iím going to call and ask about a recovery test. I didnít know there was such a thing.


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    Bless the souls of the few here who do not believe that there is some fraud occurring. Your faith in humanity is uplifting.

    The truth is, the Govt awards funds for each new case of COVID-19. The for-profit hospitals are cashing in on this. Not saying that all of them are doing this but enough of them are to make it a concern.

    I'm sure that most of you have heard that during this time of pandemic, if a person dies from a heart attack or in a car accident or whatever (for example), that person is considered a victim of COVID-19 even if they were not infected. And, funding is awarded to the hospital who served that patient. Aside from that, positive cases are being conjured up. It's all about money. So sad.


    EDITED:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

    Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

    Julie Aultman, a member of the editorial board of the American Medical Associationís Journal of Ethics, told PolitiFact it is ďvery unlikely that physicians or hospitals will falsify data or be motivated by money to do so.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    I appreciate the info, Iím going to call and ask about a recovery test. I didnít know there was such a thing.


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    I had not heard that either until last night when he told me it was different from the regular test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    Bless the souls of the few here who do not believe that there is some fraud occurring. Your faith in humanity is uplifting.

    The truth is, the Govt awards funds for each new case of COVID-19. The for-profit hospitals are cashing in on this. Not saying that all of them are doing this but enough of them are to make it a concern.

    I'm sure that most of you have heard that during this time of pandemic, if a person dies from a heart attack or in a car accident or whatever (for example), that person is considered a victim of COVID-19 even if they were not infected. And, funding is awarded to the hospital who served that patient. Aside from that, positive cases are being conjured up. It's all about money. So sad.
    Do you have some sources to back up those claims?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Do you have some sources to back up those claims?
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

    Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

    Julie Aultman, a member of the editorial board of the American Medical Associationís Journal of Ethics, told PolitiFact it is ďvery unlikely that physicians or hospitals will falsify data or be motivated by money to do so.Ē


    Edit: Should be under Hawg's post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

    Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

    Julie Aultman, a member of the editorial board of the American Medical Associationís Journal of Ethics, told PolitiFact it is ďvery unlikely that physicians or hospitals will falsify data or be motivated by money to do so.Ē


    Edit: Should be under Hawg's post.
    They aren't looking close enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    They aren't looking close enough.
    Enlighten us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    They aren't looking close enough.
    Lol. Please do share what your investigative reporting has turned up. The world is waiting.


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    I had a friend back in high school who totally did date Jennifer Love Hewitt.

    I've been hearing all sorts of these stories- but I have yet to see any actual proof offered except hear-say.

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    random conspiracy theory opinions without any factual basis behind them will be moderated.
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    Well duh -- no masks.
    Go Fact Yourself.

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    Ah yes one clerical error means it's all made up. Anyone I know who was tested was negative, a couple of them surprisingly so. They're not making this shit up.

    If you were a doctor would you commit medical malpractice by falsifying reports?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Ah yes one clerical error means it's all made up. Anyone I know who was tested was negative, a couple of them surprisingly so. They're not making this shit up.

    If you were a doctor would you commit medical malpractice by falsifying reports?

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    Obviously it COULD happen.

    If it is happening then it is isolated cases, certainly not the norm by any means.

    My dad is an insurance investigator for medical malpractice, I will ask him if he has ever investigated malpractice involving falsifying of medical data for personal gain. He has been in the business since the early 1980's in the greater LA area, so if it has happened on a measurable scale he would have some insight into it.
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    How about our very own director of the CDC

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-3fca0a52286f/
    Or the White Corona Virus coordinator

    https://madisonarealymesupportgroup-...-misconduct%2F

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    How about our very own director of the CDC

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-3fca0a52286f/
    By John Schwartz



    June 8, 1994


    Are you really citing something from 1994?
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    Its not false to classify a car crash death, who happens to also be Covid positive, a Covid death, legally. However it does raise the question of are we getting the most accurate information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    By John Schwartz



    June 8, 1994


    Are you really citing something from 1994?
    Yeah

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    Let us not forget Fauci's involvement with AZT while head of the NIH
    https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-a...s-of-omission/

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Let us not forget Fauci's involvement with AZT while head of the NIH
    https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-a...s-of-omission/

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    Oh that AZT. Here I thought "WTF does he have to do with the Arizona Trail"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_In_AZ View Post
    Oh that AZT. Here I thought "WTF does he have to do with the Arizona Trail"


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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_In_AZ View Post
    Oh that AZT. Here I thought "WTF does he have to do with the Arizona Trail"
    Well if he rides like he throws pitches, he'd be wrapped around a cactus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Ah yes one clerical error means it's all made up. Anyone I know who was tested was negative, a couple of them surprisingly so. They're not making this shit up.

    If you were a doctor would you commit medical malpractice by falsifying reports?

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    It's not the doctors who are falsifying the results. It's higher up than that.

    The doctors and medical staff are innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Ah yes one clerical error means it's all made up.

    But there might be 2 clerical errors!


    Its astounding that some will cite a clerical error/data not being *perfect* as evidence of a massive conspiracy.

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    I'm gonna off myself and just leave a note that reads "cause of death: covid" just to rack up the tally now.

    Edit: damn this is a tasteless joke
    dang

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    I'm gonna off myself and just leave a note that reads "cause of death: covid" just to rack up the tally now.

    Edit: damn this is a tasteless joke
    If it's tasteless I think you already have Covid-19

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    If it's tasteless I think you already have Covid-19
    Maybe, but it still smells like shit...

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    The only evidence I've seen of people actually screwing the pooch on testing was not nefarious deep state agents but when Tech Bros tried to play doctor in Utah and Iowa and were passing around false negatives like candy.

    https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annal...avirus-testing

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    https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/care...ion/index.html

    Here's a pretty good break down of what's been paid out. Sounds like a lot of money but across that many providers I have no idea if a Covid patient nets a provider any profit or not.

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  106. #106
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    Conspiracy theories aside, I finally tested negative after 6 tries and a month! Had surgery today!


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    Conspiracy theories aside, I finally tested negative after 6 tries and a month! Had surgery today!


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    Congrats. I just had gen. anesthesia surgery yesterday too. Not feeling to spy today. Hope we both come out of this well.
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  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    Congrats. I just had gen. anesthesia surgery yesterday too. Not feeling to spy today. Hope we both come out of this well.
    Hope you get feeling better soon!


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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog View Post
    Conspiracy theories aside, I finally tested negative after 6 tries and a month! Had surgery today!


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    Awesome! Glad to hear it!
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  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/care...ion/index.html

    Here's a pretty good break down of what's been paid out. Sounds like a lot of money but across that many providers I have no idea if a Covid patient nets a provider any profit or not.

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    I'm with you, don't know if that provides a profit or not, but from what I gather most hospitals will gladly accept it since they've lot so much business from canceled outpatient routine services.

    This whole covid thing is weird as hell.
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  111. #111
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    Emergency care visits way down. Electives way down. Hospitals are hurting, and many ill prepared for pandemic at hand
    Round and round we go

  112. #112
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    The CARES Act passed by Congress in March, hospitals receive a 20 percent premium when seeking payment for Medicare patients who died allegedly of the coronavirus.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDC Director Redfield
    ďSo I do think thereís some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, itís how the physician defines it in the death certificate and Ö we review all of those death certificates,Ē the CDC director continued.

    ďSo I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I wonít say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.Ē

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    My dad is an insurance investigator for medical malpractice, I will ask him if he has ever investigated malpractice involving falsifying of medical data for personal gain. He has been in the business since the early 1980's in the greater LA area, so if it has happened on a measurable scale he would have some insight into it.
    I chatted with my dad over the weekend. In regards to the Story the OP is presenting about a false positive for someone who never got tested, he has not ever seen a case like that, nor has he heard in his line of business of that happening. Not to say the OP's friend is lying, just that it is not common if it is happening. Probably a clerical mistake.

    What is much more common is when a doctor or tech mis-reads a test, either Bloodwork, CT, MRI or Xray and then a bad prognosis is given. He sees this sort of thing more regularly.

    The Hospitals he works with are also hurting for money with no or limited elective surgeries happening right now.

    The biggest thing he is running into for malpractice cases against the hospitals is due to lost items.

    This is a bit off topic, but a good warning to anyone. If you have a family member that gets admitted to a room, don't bring much if any personal belongings into the room.

    Here is the Case he told me about;
    A grandmother was ill and needed a stay (non-covid) and her family brought in a number of old family photos and a photo album for her. The staff repeated told the family that personal belongings should not be left in the room. The Patient was in a shared room. While she was out for testing the staff found out the other patient in the room had been diagnosed with TB and due to that was moved to the Isolation ward, but that also meant everything in the room was collected by the haz-mat team and the room decontaminated. The family is suing the Hospital trying to get back the photos. It sucks, but they probably wont ever get em back.

    Yikes.
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  114. #114
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    Apparently he didn't see that when reposting, kinda reminds me of someone ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    By John Schwartz



    June 8, 1994


    Are you really citing something from 1994?
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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I chatted with my dad over the weekend. In regards to the Story the OP is presenting about a false positive for someone who never got tested, he has not ever seen a case like that, nor has he heard in his line of business of that happening. Not to say the OP's friend is lying, just that it is not common if it is happening. Probably a clerical mistake.
    If a lab was sending out results for tests that were not actually done, that wouldn't be a medical malpractice investigation it would be a health care fraud investigation

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    I'm gonna off myself and just leave a note that reads "cause of death: covid" just to rack up the tally now.

    Edit: damn this is a tasteless joke
    I laughed though.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    If a lab was sending out results for tests that were not actually done, that wouldn't be a medical malpractice investigation it would be a health care fraud investigation

    That may be the case, but in his line of work he would be aware of such things. That is why I asked him.


    I still think the OP's story is either missing something or is a one-off fluke.
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  118. #118
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    Another excellent article in The Atlantic
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...o-away/614860/

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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Another excellent article in The Atlantic
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...o-away/614860/

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    Yup, and we may evolve to combat it as we do a common cold. Doesnít help the here and now though
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  120. #120
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    I've seen the mysterious "I left the testing site without getting tested and got a letter in the mail saying I tested positive" story a few times recently. All on Facebook. All shared by my batcrap crazy redneck cousins. It's always "a friend of a friend said..."

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Another excellent article in The Atlantic
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...o-away/614860/

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    That was a good read, thanks for sharing!
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  122. #122
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    I'll just drop this here....

    https://www.thebritishjournal.com/wo...ews-4771-2020/

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  123. #123
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    Ok, but he also clarified

    ďWhen it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, itís how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and Ö we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I wonít say there are not some cases,Ē

    Yale study indicates deaths likely undercounted. Dr Birx indicates undercounted. Unclear where she got that from.

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    dang

  124. #124
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    Testing numbers are skewed for so many reasons... You test positive and are required to get tested before returning to work so you continue to get tested and test positive 3 more time it's 1 case that is reflecting 4 positive test....

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Testing numbers are skewed for so many reasons... You test positive and are required to get tested before returning to work so you continue to get tested and test positive 3 more time it's 1 case that is reflecting 4 positive test....
    Well, thatís bullshit. More bullshit, from a bullshitter. Please cite your source.


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  126. #126
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    Related to the conversation: Effectiveness of different types of masks. Especially interesting concerning the neck gaiters I see worn by joggers and fellow mountainbikers.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/du...rnd/index.html

    "Neck fleeces, also called gaiter masks and often used by runners, were the least effective. In fact, wearing a fleece mask resulted in a higher number of respiratory droplets because the material seemed to break down larger droplets into smaller particles that are more easily carried away with air."



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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    "Neck fleeces, also called gaiter masks and often used by runners, were the least effective. In fact, wearing a fleece mask resulted in a higher number of respiratory droplets because the material seemed to break down larger droplets into smaller particles that are more easily carried away with air."
    That is really interesting... in a bad way. I see these used a lot, just in general, as a mask.

    A company called G95 makes a gaiter that claims to have some actual filtration protection, but it might be hard to jog in it.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Related to the conversation: Effectiveness of different types of masks. Especially interesting concerning the neck gaiters I see worn by joggers and fellow mountainbikers.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/du...rnd/index.html

    "Neck fleeces, also called gaiter masks and often used by runners, were the least effective. In fact, wearing a fleece mask resulted in a higher number of respiratory droplets because the material seemed to break down larger droplets into smaller particles that are more easily carried away with air."



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    Could see that. Fleece prolly not the most effective choice. While weight, quality and whatnot a factor. Regardless of type of mask can become a Petrie dish. Being smart about touching, cleaning, carrying takes some planning but itís not rocket science. Promoting reasons not to wear a mask pretty backward
    Round and round we go

  129. #129
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    Excellent and very interesting read
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...&utm_source=fb

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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    ...
    Promoting reasons not to wear a mask pretty backward
    Are you implying that I was promoting NOT wearing a mask by posting that article?
    Because, for the record, I wear a mask when in public and encourage others to do so. (Actually, the only reason I could see myself objecting to wearing a mask, was if they made it an actual enforced law and I was forced to. But, that is the serial contrarian in me speaking. Sorry, it's the way I'm wired. It's in my DNA. )

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