Can 35-40 lbs be safely and efficiently lost in 90 days?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    475

    Can 35-40 lbs be safely and efficiently lost in 90 days?

    I currently weigh 228 at 5'10". My body composition is what you might describe as fit fat meaning I'm very active and have a decent amount of muscle yet there is plenty of soft spots here and there. In the past few months I have phased out much of the fattier foods like bacon and sausage and eggs but my weight is still similar. I have a some events coming up mid summer that I would like to show up for in the 190 lb range. I'm thinking of having a breakfast 600-800 cal breakfast and 400 cal small lunch and skipping dinner in trade of more cycling and hiking. Does it seem likely?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OwenM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,363
    Quite possible. You have to stick to a diet, though. It has to do most of the work, because you can easily outeat your calorie burn from activity.
    Went from 203 to 175 between late December and mid-February, myself. Been holding there, as I've been throwing down at the dinner table a lot, since, but am about to drop about 8 more pounds to see if that gets some abs showing.
    Posted about it here:
    Weight loss - Page 3- Mtbr.com

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kubikeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    903
    Careful with sever calorie deficits. Though cutting calories is the general idea, too much can lead to weird things.

    This may sound unpopular or like I'm "pushing my agenda" but consider a plant based diet for a while. By the very nature of cooking and eating veg/vegan, you remove most or all animal fat, you can reduce sugar and salt, and focus on nutritionally dense foods.

    Start with the mentality of "weekday vegetarian" and try to plan out healthy recipes for the week. You'll be less likely to falter if you plan your meals ahead and don't leave room for impulse.

    Finally, look up the veg/vegan alternative to your favorite foods. Like chili mac and cheese? Fine, look up the vegan alternative. Like bacon? Try eggplant bacon. Like a burger? Try grilling a portobella and throwing on your favorite toppings. Like tuna? Use your favorite tuna salad recipe with smashed chickpeas instead. Little changes add up.

    Disclaimer to trolls: I am not a medical professional, nor do I want to argue about veg or not veg. Don't like it? Fine, I don't care.
    The cake is a lie.

  4. #4
    9 lives
    Reputation: cyclelicious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    14,753
    To stay at the same weight (228lbs), you would need to consume approximately 3130 calories a day. Your minimum calorie need is 1800 calories. To lose weight, you would have to reduce your caloric intake.

    For example
    To lose 1 lb per week you would need to reduce your calorie intake by 500cal /day ie 2630 cal/day
    To lose 2lbs per week you would need to reduce your calorie intake by 1000cal /day ie 2130 cal/day


    One pound of weight is lost for every 3000 calories reduced or burned.
    F*ck Cancer

    Eat your veggies

  5. #5
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,307
    Quote Originally Posted by kubikeman View Post
    Careful with sever calorie deficits. Though cutting calories is the general idea, too much can lead to weird things.

    This may sound unpopular or like I'm "pushing my agenda" but consider a plant based diet for a while. By the very nature of cooking and eating veg/vegan, you remove most or all animal fat, you can reduce sugar and salt, and focus on nutritionally dense foods.

    Start with the mentality of "weekday vegetarian" and try to plan out healthy recipes for the week. You'll be less likely to falter if you plan your meals ahead and don't leave room for impulse.

    Finally, look up the veg/vegan alternative to your favorite foods. Like chili mac and cheese? Fine, look up the vegan alternative. Like bacon? Try eggplant bacon. Like a burger? Try grilling a portobella and throwing on your favorite toppings. Like tuna? Use your favorite tuna salad recipe with smashed chickpeas instead. Little changes add up.

    Disclaimer to trolls: I am not a medical professional, nor do I want to argue about veg or not veg. Don't like it? Fine, I don't care.
    But I do like it!

    Never heard of eggplant bacon, I'll have to check that out.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: targnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5,097
    You'd have to give up beer!

    And we all know, that ain't gonna happen. :chortle:

    Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk
    "Mountain biking: the under-rated and drug-free antidepressant"

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kubikeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    903
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    But I do like it!

    Never heard of eggplant bacon, I'll have to check that out.
    Ha! Well, at least somebody does!

    Probably belongs in Veg/Vegan Recipe thread, but since we're on the subject:

    Crispy Eggplant Bacon | Minimalist Baker Recipes
    The cake is a lie.

  8. #8
    9 lives
    Reputation: cyclelicious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    14,753
    Quote Originally Posted by kubikeman View Post
    Careful with sever calorie deficits. Though cutting calories is the general idea, too much can lead to weird things.

    This may sound unpopular or like I'm "pushing my agenda" but consider a plant based diet for a while. By the very nature of cooking and eating veg/vegan, you remove most or all animal fat, you can reduce sugar and salt, and focus on nutritionally dense foods.

    Start with the mentality of "weekday vegetarian" and try to plan out healthy recipes for the week. You'll be less likely to falter if you plan your meals ahead and don't leave room for impulse.

    Finally, look up the veg/vegan alternative to your favorite foods. Like chili mac and cheese? Fine, look up the vegan alternative. Like bacon? Try eggplant bacon. Like a burger? Try grilling a portobella and throwing on your favorite toppings. Like tuna? Use your favorite tuna salad recipe with smashed chickpeas instead. Little changes add up.

    Disclaimer to trolls: I am not a medical professional, nor do I want to argue about veg or not veg. Don't like it? Fine, I don't care.

    F*ck Cancer

    Eat your veggies

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    23
    Personally I would recommend against the 90day time line for two reasons: it will stress your body badly and it will be harder to maintain. Weight loss by itself is as simple as some say in that you need calories burned to be more than calories in. However, make sure when you go through this that you are doing resistance training since a lot of early weight loss if you are dieting and doing cardio will be muscle mass. Physiologically your body likes to burn muscle first before switching to fat, also to go against some dietary advice your body needs glucose to burn fat so dont cut out all carbs.

    As for the time line when you start losing the first 10-15lbs will be easy but as you go lower it will get harder. This is because your body is used to being the weight that you are and will attempt to maintain that weight. As you lose you will increase cortisol making your appetite increase, fat metabolism to go down, and muscle recovery to be slower. On top of that you will increase levels of leptin which will further stimulate hunger. By taking the weight loss slow you will not only lose the weight but your body will adapt better to the stress.

    Overall though, the most important thing is to keep the weight off long term. You are doing great by slowly phasing out unhealthy foods and increasing activity. Healthy weight loss is a series of small steps that eventually add up. As unfortunate as it is, when you burn fat initially you simply shrink the size of the fat cells, but the number stays the same which is why it is so easy to gain weight back quickly. It takes roughly 9 months for fat cell number to decrease once you've lost the weight.

    My credentials: I personally lost 120lbs, have a undergraduate degree in Physiology, and am currently a second year medical student.

  10. #10
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,658
    two pounds per week is generally considered the maximum safe weight loss.

    Possible, but difficult to lose that much. Keeping up the daily regimen needed will require a tremendous amount of discipline and self control.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    475
    I appreciate all the responses. I think on April 1st I will begin my attempt with a two meal a day intake of no more than 1,200 cal per day, no alcohol, only sugars coming from fruit but with the focus staying on the lower carb side but no not no carb like some try. I feel readjusting my goal for the same period of time should be more like 25-30 lbs instead of 35-40.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,460
    Small steps worked for me. Easiest? Gave up soda and for the most part processed food. Think lean protein, whole grains, lots of veggies. Eat less, ride more. Went with steel cut oats and then 17 miles commute in 26F weather. Whoot. Don't try to do too much too soon. Hangry attacks and mid ride bonks are no fun.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    129
    Going to bed hungry, if it doesn't keep you from sleeping, is a pretty effective weight loss strategy. So I like the idea of skipping dinner. Assuming you're avoiding processed foods, alcohol and anything with additional sugars, you should be able to achieve a 300-500 calorie deficit pretty easily.

    That said - I would also look at the calories you consume during training. Anything under 1 hour definitely does not need additional sugar/fuel, and you can work on pushing this out to 2hrs+, especially for low intensity work. Even if are doing intense efforts or feel like you personally feel the need for fuel, I've read that human bodies generally can't process more than 200-300 calories per hour into glycogen for use by the muscles (a number that is really easy to overshoot).

    I'd also highly recommend getting a power meter or a trainer that gives you actual power (not virtual power). You'll be able to measure your actual calorie expenditure this way and better understand what sort of caloric demands you are making on your body. And remember, the stronger you get, the more watts you produce and the more calories you therefore burn.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DickyT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    81
    I've been on 1500 calories\day broken up over 3 meals and 2-3 snacks per day since October I have gone from 305 to 255. At only 5'5" I joked "I'm in shape, round is a shape..." The first couple weeks sucked, I felt hungry, I went through withdrawl from soda, but around the 2 week mark I started feeling better, and today feel much better!


    Pedaling has been a big part of the weight loss to. I started with a light pedal around the block and now do 5-6 miles each night. I am going to start working single track miles in on the weekends now that my cardio is improving.


    Typical day:

    Breakfast - 1/2 cup non fat cottage cheese or plain greek yogurt with a handful fresh organic berries mashed up in it. I am partial to blackberries

    Mid morning snack - fresh fruit

    Lunch - turkey or chicken with tomato, arugula and avocado or guacamole spread on multigrain bread

    Afternoon snack - mixed nuts or fresh fruit

    Dinner - 6 oz of meat protein and roasted veggies or a salad.

    Dessert - .2 oz of dark chocolate.(1 special dark Hershey kiss).

    Lots of water! No soda, and limiting coffee to 1 cup a day since I take cream and sugar in it.

    One day a week, usually Sunday I allow a cheat day. I don't go crazy, but allow myself things like bacon, eggs, and home fries as a family breakfast, a pelegrino blood orage Italian soda with lunch, and a real dessert. Keeping the cheat days calories around 2000.

    I do spend extra money on organic, non gmo fruits and veggies, not only because they are better for my family, but they also create better tasting meals.

    My progress is being tracked monthly by my physician as well. My diet is not his recommended diet for weight loss, his plan is a crash course and I need a sustainable program. Not only for me, but my family. They don't need protein powder and frozen berry smoothies for breakfast and dinner, they do not have my weight problem. He does not disagree with my chosen nutrition plan,and can't argue with the results. It is just not as extreme as what he typically has really heavy people start with.

  15. #15
    J6y
    J6y is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J6y's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    13
    Just gonna throwing my 2 cents in, first of 90 days isnt a long time and if you create something to follow temporarily what happens after? The dreaded rebound or worse some weird eating disorder/habit?

    My actually job is a trainer but I specialise in body composition, health etc etc (10years now)

    You really want to be looking at doing the follow..

    Be accountable
    Watch what you eat
    Eat nutrient rich foods
    Dont skip meals (an underfeed body isnt one that is prepared to part with fat)
    Eat food with a large volume to calories ratio.

    I kinda skim read the comments but to summarise skipping meals/no eating enough = slow metabolism and slow metabolism = poor fatloss.

    Eating late makes no difference if you eat enough and within your calorie range.. Also you wont need to 'cheat' if you take the above into account, you'll have a far better balance in your diet to eat most of what you like or want.

    Have fun!

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    39
    Try time restrictive eating. I've been doing it and have went from 200 lbs down to 178 lbs and still losing. I start eating at 9am and do not eat after 7pm. Still need to eat healthy and workout. I lose about 2lbs per week and track my calories through my fitness pal. Lot of hard work but I'm happy I'm seeing results.

  17. #17
    RAKC Industries
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,265
    First thing, aggressive weight loss unless needed to health problem (under doctors care for it) is very stupid in the long run:

    Once you deviate, weight comes back and then some

    Huge stresses on the body, your riding performance will suffer.

    Getting down to a set weight quickly will not make you a better rider. You'll be in for a rude awaking.

    I lost over 100lbs at one point (gained 30 back and coming back down now, injury screwed things up for over a year) and it was the first time it was easy to maintain weight.

    Going vegetarian works for some, others it messes their body chemistry all up.

    Biggest things to give up/restrict:

    High fat foods, high sodium foods, HIGH PROCESSED SUGARS.

    Breads, pastas etc are as horrible as one gets. Whole grain breads in controlled amounts (not cheap for stuff that's truly whole grain, short ingredient list).

    High simple sugar fruits are good ride snacks like a simple apple etc.

    Meats high in fat. Steaks, bacon (pork in general is high in fat for instance) any processed meat. Chicken you have to watch as well as some fish. Don't pan cook, use methods that drain away fat drippings even on lean meat. Fish is a good and bad. Best option for meat but cook in ways that reduce the fat. You want some of it (blood vessels will thank you).

    Limit "protein powders" as well. Saturated fats are the worst thing. Some healthy fats like those in many fish (stick with wild caught), avacados etc are the good fat that will help you for the physical conditioning side.

    Dairy in most forms is something to minimize. High in fat and sodium.

    High intensity riding can be counter productive. Especially if your protein intake is high. Gain muscle mass. You want to take more of the "roadie" approach. Don't push your legs hard, keep intensity low, increase duration.

    Balance your electrolytes out. Make sure your getting enough of all vitamins and minerals throughout the week.

    Drink tons of water.

    Cup of coffee in the morning with breakfast is beneficial. As is tea. Use raw honey to sweeten.

    If you need a sweetner, use honey but in moderation.

    The idea is to loose weight and lean out. Muscle weighs much more than fat. Have to keep that in check.

    DO MORE THAN JUST CYCLING. Just riding will limit effectiveness. This is why most go to the gym as well or have other workouts for core and upper body. Only working your legs and arms, your mid section fat will not go very far very fast. You want to hit it all at once.

    10lbs a month is achievable but puts heavy strain on the body. Instead of a crash diet, make the lifestyle change. Be aggressive but make it at a pace that sticks with you.

    Also the WORST POSSIBLE THING YOU CAN DO IS SKIP MEALS! Literally right below high fat/carb food is skipping meals. You body will store what you've eaten instead of burn it. You'll learn REAL FAST when you track your morning rides and your weight loss is slow. Timed cut off is a good idea, but eat something small at the very least. Everytime you stop eating for too long your metabolism slows.

    I spent a year with a physical therapist/trainer, any credible one out there will tell you the same thing about not eating. Took a little over a year to shave the weight but in 1.75 years since things got screwed up, I haven't put much back on and it's coming right back off now that I am at 100% again. Why have to go through this every year instead of just making the change and staying that way.

    Final thing is, it will take time to sort out what works best as each person's body has different needs. This is something that should have been planned further in advance so you had time to get a proper plan up and going first.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Power Meter City's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    156
    While I think it's awesome you're motivated to lose some pounds, I agree with a lot of what RAKC Ind said. That type of a weight drop is pretty aggressive. Give it a go but I wouldn't overdo it. Heck...if you lose half that amount in 3 months it would be huge. Good luck.
    PowerMeterCity.com
    Your Powermeter Specialists

  19. #19
    eri
    eri is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: eri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by Power Meter City View Post
    While I think it's awesome you're motivated to lose some pounds, I agree with a lot of what RAKC Ind said. That type of a weight drop is pretty aggressive. Give it a go but I wouldn't overdo it. Heck...if you lose half that amount in 3 months it would be huge. Good luck.
    35-40lbs in 90 days is 0.4 lbs/day. This is almost certainly too aggressive. Is crazy and you're likely to do yourself harm. Generally 2lb/week is considered sustainable.

    Your body consumes some amount of energy just to sustain itself, called basal rate:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

    As you can see there are lots of measures and estimates. A big part of basal rate is energy to maintain your body's protein, this scales with how much muscle you have. One way to lose weight: lift weights, overload the muscles and increase your protein intake. As the muscles grow the basal rate will increase.

    Assuming you were able to only lose fat to meet your target (pretty much impossible) you must see a caloric deficit of 0.4 * 3500 = 1400 calories per day. Depending on how much you eat now the remainder might not be enough for you to stay healthy.

    If you starve yourself and don't maintain your muscle the body will tend to consume muscle before fat, you'll get weaker and will be under stress.

    I think the safest internet advice I can give you is to just start riding more on a consistent schedule. Try 90 minutes of contiguous steady riding per day where you can say 5 words before you're uncomfortably out of breath. While exercising you should be taking in simple carbs (aerobic process needs sugar to work!) Substitute protein for some of your other calories (whey protein is cheap and good).

    You need to feed yourself intentionally, provide carbohydrate for your aerobic exercise. If you try and exercise without food your body will freak out and start guarding calories, your basal rate will drop and you'll have no energy and feel horrible.

    The other key is consistency, you need to have a sustainable glide path. Don't think you can make up a binge day by working extra-super-duper-hard the next day. Or by starving yourself. Wild swings are body stress. Get your body to raise its basal rate by feeding it when it needs fuel, providing adequate protein.

    The blind training approach based on internet advice will be slow to see results. Lots of learning for your body. If you actually, seriously, want to hit a weight goal, I think you should probably see a Dr and come up with a long term plan.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: In2falling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    610
    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Also the WORST POSSIBLE THING YOU CAN DO IS SKIP MEALS! Everytime you stop eating for too long your metabolism slows.
    Go read through Dr Fungs 20+ articles on fasting and see if you have the same belief.

    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/?s=fasting

    Skipping meals/fasting along with healthy diet (lots of veggies/fiber, healthy fats and proteins) is one of the healthiest things you can do.

    Our bodies did not evolve and are not designed to be eating all day, or eat crap processed foods. Fasting has many tremendous benefits, growth hormone release, autophagy, increases insulin sensitivity ect..

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LargeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    526
    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    Go read through Dr Fungs 20+ articles on fasting and see if you have the same belief.

    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/?s=fasting

    Skipping meals/fasting along with healthy diet (lots of veggies/fiber, healthy fats and proteins) is one of the healthiest things you can do.

    Our bodies did not evolve and are not designed to be eating all day, or eat crap processed foods. Fasting has many tremendous benefits, growth hormone release, autophagy, increases insulin sensitivity ect..
    I may be wrong, but I believe he was just talking about skipping meals per day. Fasting is very good for the body in general, but would not recommend doing a fast while training or exercising. I occasionally fast for 1-2 days, longest has been 4, but would consider it to be dangerous if I were to attempt a 4 hr training ride during that time.

    Skipping a meal per a day tells your body to start to conserve fat, once you go into a 24hr fast the body will start to burn fat because there is nothing left.
    :nono:

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,557
    I would echo going as close to vegan as you can. Read the China Study for a good explanation as to why.
    Sugar and processed foods have made most Americans very unhealthy and more predisposed to all types of diseases. Protein in large quantities is very harmful.
    I know a lot of people love beer but alcohol is very damaging as well and fogs the brain. Recent studies show that in women even one ounce a day raises the chance of breast cancer almost 10 percent. Ever heard of anyone getting breast cancer??
    Our western diet is a real killer. Just look around you to see how many people are overweight and out of shape and just not energetic.
    My wife is a fan of the crazy lady that does brightline eating. She talks about the "susceptibility scale" which basically is how addictive your personality is. You just have to clear the crap out of your pantry and accept that certain things are not your food.
    I would not do an aggressive diet because you are much more likely to fail than to succeed. I would even forgo exercise as you try to change your eating "lifestyle" then gradually add exercise to your program.
    If you don't dial in your eating regimen and make it part of a long term lifestyle change then failure is almost guaranteed.
    Also don't set a future start date. Get on it right now!
    Good luck!
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  23. #23
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,437
    Have a look, it's a safe link and it might just change your life.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...747xMHOpNzxElg
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

  24. #24
    RAKC Industries
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,265
    Hate click bait listed as "safe". Not intentional but the pop ups and garbage is annoying as hell.

    I have been reading up on this all A LOT. Looking at studies from major universities and so on.

    First is that our bodies were not designed for the high intensities of cycling for prolonged periods. So many of the "diet" ideas go out the window because major calorie deficits lead to malnutrition in a hurry.

    Are ability to eat proper nutrients in the needed amounts is much of why our life expectancy as a human race has greatly increased.

    However the average western diet is a huge problem. Also the additives in our food (and drinking water) supply is the cause of much of the health issues today.

    Removing foods that aren't natural and greatly limiting foods high in carbs like breads pastas and junk food will do a lot quickly for so many reasons.

    Final big issue is portions. We eat a lot of carbs, high fat proteins, and dairy which is all basically high in fat,

    This is why going "as vegetarian as possible" isn't what it's cracked up to be. First is that there has been countless studies showing it means squat if lean and natural meats are eaten. Your avg beef, pork and such needs to be cut to a minimum. "Wild" meats are no better or worse than plant based proteins. Still have fat, still have protein.

    TLDR version: as I said before, processed carbs to a bare minimum, same with beef/pork except leanest cuts and still minimize. Same with dairy. Keep it natural, keep it mixed till you find a plan that ensures every you need to eat for nutrients is covered.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    481
    The China study is pseudo science that confuses correlation with causation. Once you control for wheat, the relationship between protein and chronic illness disappears and can in some cases be reversed. And even Campbell's controlled experiments on rats is flawed. He "turns-off" cancer in the low protein rats by keeping protein so low that it causes failure to thrive. What he doesn't tell you is that the rats that got cancer lived almost twice as long. I'm sorry, but we know one of the biggest predictors of cancer is longevity. Killing cancer by killing you early is not a solution but rather an even bigger problem.

    That said, eating a ton of protein is not necessarily smart. But that is true for any macro nutrient. Just eat a balanced whole food diet and stop worrying about macro-nutrient minutae and fad diets.

  26. #26
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,658
    Yes, the China Study has been discredited. Genetically similar Mongolia has a high meat consumption diet, higher than the U.S., and has a lower cancer rate than China. Obviously other factors involved than meat consumption. Also already noted subsistence cultures, with wild protein sources, have similar health profiles as vegans. So keep hunting and fishing for food.

    As people age the protein needs seem to increase slightly. Too high a protein consumption also has a downside. Some studies suggest protein intake in excess of ~2.5 gram/kg/day inhibits tissue growth and muscle recovery. If the high protein intake begins to replace other nutrients then you can have deficiency problems.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,557
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Yes, the China Study has been discredited. Genetically similar Mongolia has a high meat consumption diet, higher than the U.S., and has a lower cancer rate than China. Obviously other factors involved than meat consumption. Also already noted subsistence cultures, with wild protein sources, have similar health profiles as vegans. So keep hunting and fishing for food.

    As people age the protein needs seem to increase slightly. Too high a protein consumption also has a downside. Some studies suggest protein intake in excess of ~2.5 gram/kg/day inhibits tissue growth and muscle recovery. If the high protein intake begins to replace other nutrients then you can have deficiency problems.
    The problem with the internet is that you always are going to have the various sides discredit the other to a point that you don't know what to believe? I will take my chances with a close to vegan diet with no meat rather than other diet options.
    Lots of non meat eating athletes do very well and for a long period of time. Scott Jurek for example.
    My story. Now 64. Heart surgery in 7th grade, lost eye to cancer when I was early 30s. Always would get a cold once a year that screwed me up with coughing spells for a solid month.
    Became vegetarian about 15 years ago and health improved. About 3 years ago went mostly vegan. This was the biggest change, not so much in cutting out most dairy, but understanding diet and nutrition and cleaning things up. I recently took a physical for a life insurance policy and the agent asked if I was a marathoner and gave me their best preferred rate. I was worried with the cancer and heart surgeries that I would be turned down.
    My wife is 61 and has been a type one diabetic since her 20's. She was the impetus behind our mostly vegan diet and studying nutrition extensively. She bikes, hikes works her ass off and deals with a very difficult medical condition. She too feels that a plant based diet is superior.
    Trust me if I could find convincing evidence that cheese, and ice cream and burgers and sodas and candy were healthy for you I would be all over it!
    No doubt you can have meat and dairy in your diet and live a long life but if you want to give yourself the best chance of a more healthy way to your death then I would chose a different path.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  28. #28
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,658
    According to the periodic USDA NHANES study the average American eats about 3.5 pounds of food per day. About 1/2 pound, or 14%, is meat. I do not call 14% of total consumption a 'meat based' diet, although that is still about 3-4x the USDA recommendations. No doubt we eat too much meat. Research is showing significant health benefits by eating 2-3 ounces per day average, primarily fish and white meats, with red only 1-2x per month (does not have to be 3 ounces every day, average over a week is fine). You can get the health benefits of vegan without completely eliminating meat and dairy from your diet.

    This is exactly what the 'Blue Zones' show. Dan Buettner's book analyzed areas around the world with an unusual number of centenarians. He identified four factors contributing to longevity. Diet was only one of them. The others are physical activity, large social network of friends/family nearby, and a sense of purpose in life.

    Of all the societies studied, only one was vegan (Seventh Day Adventists in southern California, and most of them are not strict vegans either). All the rest consumed some meat and dairy. Not a lot -- small amounts only a few times per week -- but animal products are present in the diet. A follow up study identified other world regions with high longevity ('Pale Blue Zones') and found a few with high meat consumption. So of the four factors diet appears to be less important.

    No doubt genetics also play a role. The emerging science of nutrition genomics is still in its infancy. It is likely in the not too distant future a DNA sample will tell you the optimum diet for you individually.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    481
    Agree with you dave54. And richwolf, congrats on your health gains. But you did draw a bit of a false dichotomy. Being non-vegan does not mean burgers, candy, cheese, and ice cream. The longest lived group are pescaterians not vegans or vegetarians according to most studies.

    While I agree that veganism is perhaps the healthiest of the extreme diets and I would certainly choose it over keto type diets, the web is still full of advice on "how to do vegan right". That is a hallmark of most extreme diets - lots of people don't flourish on it and there is lots of advice on "how to do it right." And when someone does fail, the victim gets the blame for doing it wrong. You don't have websites telling people how to do meditarrean diets right to flourish because it is balanced and most people will not be lacking major nutrients.

    BTW, my biggest problem with "vegan evidence" is that it is mostly anecdotal and there is a lot of cherry picking of the data. I know this because I was once a vegan and couldn't deal with the lack of integrity when presenting evidence for why it is a good diet.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,557
    Quote Originally Posted by midwestmtb View Post
    Agree with you dave54. And richwolf, congrats on your health gains. But you did draw a bit of a false dichotomy. Being non-vegan does not mean burgers, candy, cheese, and ice cream. The longest lived group are pescaterians not vegans or vegetarians according to most studies.

    While I agree that veganism is perhaps the healthiest of the extreme diets and I would certainly choose it over keto type diets, the web is still full of advice on "how to do vegan right". That is a hallmark of most extreme diets - lots of people don't flourish on it and there is lots of advice on "how to do it right." And when someone does fail, the victim gets the blame for doing it wrong. You don't have websites telling people how to do meditarrean diets right to flourish because it is balanced and most people will not be lacking major nutrients.

    BTW, my biggest problem with "vegan evidence" is that it is mostly anecdotal and there is a lot of cherry picking of the data. I know this because I was once a vegan and couldn't deal with the lack of integrity when presenting evidence for why it is a good diet.
    Anecdotal: not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

    Is is anecdotal if one does a bunch of nutrition research and plans their diet around that and has health improvements?

    Is it anecdotal if one researches tires for low rolling resistance finds one and they are faster?

    Is it anecdotal if one takes a mountain bike skills course and they feel safer on a bike.

    My main gripe is that the food industry and beverage industry don't give a crap about your long term health. When I go to the grocery store I am appalled by the offerings there and what people put in their cart.
    I am appalled when I walk down the street and see so many people waddling around.
    Then everyone wants free or "affordable" health care to take care of their bad decisions. This is going to bankrupt our country even sooner.
    And you wonder why no one wants to put their name on a health care bill? There is a big health care crisis on the horizon due to our lifestyle and it is mostly being ignored.

    I put in my two cents worth regarding diet and I will leave it at that.
    Again good luck to the OP on losing weight and finding a healthier body. If it is vegan or vegetarian great. If it comes about from any other diet then that is great too.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,557
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    According to the periodic USDA NHANES study the average American eats about 3.5 pounds of food per day. About 1/2 pound, or 14%, is meat. I do not call 14% of total consumption a 'meat based' diet, although that is still about 3-4x the USDA recommendations. No doubt we eat too much meat. Research is showing significant health benefits by eating 2-3 ounces per day average, primarily fish and white meats, with red only 1-2x per month (does not have to be 3 ounces every day, average over a week is fine). You can get the health benefits of vegan without completely eliminating meat and dairy from your diet.

    This is exactly what the 'Blue Zones' show. Dan Buettner's book analyzed areas around the world with an unusual number of centenarians. He identified four factors contributing to longevity. Diet was only one of them. The others are physical activity, large social network of friends/family nearby, and a sense of purpose in life.

    Of all the societies studied, only one was vegan (Seventh Day Adventists in southern California, and most of them are not strict vegans either). All the rest consumed some meat and dairy. Not a lot -- small amounts only a few times per week -- but animal products are present in the diet. A follow up study identified other world regions with high longevity ('Pale Blue Zones') and found a few with high meat consumption. So of the four factors diet appears to be less important.

    No doubt genetics also play a role. The emerging science of nutrition genomics is still in its infancy. It is likely in the not too distant future a DNA sample will tell you the optimum diet for you individually.
    So can I say because of this link that Blue Zones have been discredited and debunked?? This is my point that the internet instead of being this wonderful information highway that will help lead to true answers has just become a huge trainwreck of misinformation.

    https://www.westonaprice.org/book-re...-dan-buettner/

    Then this discrediting weston a price website: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm...alling-legacy/
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    499
    I lost about 50 lbs in about 4-5 months. Started eating keto (no grains, sugar etc), started running and lifting in addition to riding. Weight melted off, especially the first 30 lbs...wasn't that hard, just requires discipline.

    The benefits on the bike are tremendous. I've never felt so lively and energetic on a mountain bike before!
    2018 Santa Cruz Tallboy
    Southern Maine

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    944
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody01 View Post
    I currently weigh 228 at 5'10". My body composition is what you might describe as fit fat meaning I'm very active and have a decent amount of muscle yet there is plenty of soft spots here and there. In the past few months I have phased out much of the fattier foods like bacon and sausage and eggs but my weight is still similar. I have a some events coming up mid summer that I would like to show up for in the 190 lb range. I'm thinking of having a breakfast 600-800 cal breakfast and 400 cal small lunch and skipping dinner in trade of more cycling and hiking. Does it seem likely?
    Losing weight requires ditching simple carbs and refined and processed foods. Exercise can help you lose weight, but it must be high intensity short duration muscle building exercises. Cardio does not help you lose fat alone, and in of itself, doesn't use much fat unless you are weight training or doing other high intensity short duration exercises. Lastly, and this is very important. You must SLEEP! Sleep is required for many things. It helps you recover. It helps rebuild, and build new muscle, the new muscle you want that will help burn fat, and it helps you feel healthy and energetic.

    In order to lose weight, you need to cut out sugar, breads, and eat less refined and processed foods. Eat fruits and veggies, if a meat eater, eat meat, otherwise, you can do it vegan too. And don't all argue you need meat, because there are successful professional body builders who are vegan. Not saying you have to be, just saying you can do this any number of ways.

    For exercise, you should focus on 3-5 times a week doing resistance weight training. This is a great way to go. Any cardio must include high intensity short duration like sprinting and/or hil climbs. High intensity followed by rest. If you just run and mtb for long duration it does not work as well. Unless you only ride up and down hills for 20 minutes, going for longer rides and runs, your body will become efficient, and for now, you don't want that. You want big inefficient muscle gains which require energy in the form of fat burning.

    How do I know that this works? I know because I lost large amounts of weight twice in my life and am about to embark on another weight loss right now. I am struggling with a hernia and personal issues (loss of mother and friend) which prevents me from losing weight right now. I hope to have my hernia fixed within a couple of months.

    I have two weight loss stories.

    Part I

    I can talk from experience. When I was 14 years old in grade nine I stepped on the scale and I knew I had been gaining weight since grade 8. I checked it over and over again because I was surprised just how overweight I had become. I do not have a big frame, I am 5 foot 9 and 1/2" now, and was either close, or shorter than that. When I stepped on that scale during ninth grade, I weighed 226 LBS. I was very big for a kid my height and age.

    Long story short, I asked my parents to buy a weight set and I bought a DP weight set, repaired the stationary bicycle we had (it was winter at the time)...and I suppose I changed my diet somewhat, but I can't recall exactly how. Bottom line, I lost 50 LBS in 6 months as a 14 year old child, doing it all on my own with little or no supervision nor coaching.

    Part II

    Around the age of 32 years old I looked at myself and compared myself to younger people fitter than me and wondered why I was not in better shape, and why I still had a belly. I took some of the knowledge I already had and learned a little more and in 3-4 months I went from 185-190 LBS to 150 LBS and increased my muscle strength in all exercises in the gym. Again, it was winter, so I was only outside when I ran. I reduced my body fat from 16-18% to around 8%. Friends and people I knew thought I was ill. I went a little too far.

    How did I do it the second time? I did run, use the elliptical and stationary bicycles to increase my fitness and cardio, but...the main way I lost fat this time was due to diet and weight training, with the difference this time being no more simple sugars. I cut out all bread and sugar. No sugar pop, no alcoholic drinks. Only complex carbohydrates like brown rice, brown rice pasta, and oatmeal and in smaller quantities, along with many salads with fruits and vegetables and lean meats like turkey, chicken and fish. I only ate complex carbs to go along with my high energy requirements of weight training, running and elliptical. If you aren't expending lots of energy, you can eliminate these carbs. In fact, I am just looking into this forum to see if my next weight loss adventure can be done with fewer or no carbs. I have never felt good without some carbs, but, I will see. Bottom line, no refined carbs, no simple sugars.

    I don't know what you have done up to now, but my experience has taught me that its all about reducing sugar and processed foods, eating whole foods, doing high intensity exercises and getting rest.
    :)

  34. #34
    J6y
    J6y is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J6y's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    13
    morkys that is great advice BUT I feel like I should add some key points please don't think I'm undermining..

    Fatloss is all about moderation and I shall explain, ditching everything is never the way to get the weight off and keep it off, the term 'baby steps' springs to mind.

    App like MyFitnessPal are free and make you aware of what you're eating (you'll need to find out your calorie expenditure etc) which is the most vital part, it also makes you accountable for what you are and aren't putting in your mouth. Unfortunately we spend our lives never learning how to eat/fuel ourselves properly and damage our bodies ability to work efficiently and its a process to get back on the right track, sure you can loose a whole load of weight in 8 weeks but good luck keeping if off and your physical performance will blow. Just think how can you spend 30-50 years increasing your fat cells and expect them to disappear overnight? Don't let that discourage you but its the truth.

    I'm a veggie natural bodybuilder (15years) and performance trainer/nutritionist, I was a meat eater for years, tried various diets, fasted and all of that - what works is what you can stick to ultimately (that is were MFP comes into play). Last thing you have to lean to manage 'stress' as best you can, a stressed body isnt a compliant body and sleep is more quality than quantity I sleep 4-5hours a day.

    Add zinc and magnesium before you hit the pillow, it will increase sleep quality.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    944
    Quote Originally Posted by J6y View Post
    morkys that is great advice BUT I feel like I should add some key points please don't think I'm undermining..

    Fatloss is all about moderation and I shall explain, ditching everything is never the way to get the weight off and keep it off, the term 'baby steps' springs to mind.

    App like MyFitnessPal are free and make you aware of what you're eating (you'll need to find out your calorie expenditure etc) which is the most vital part, it also makes you accountable for what you are and aren't putting in your mouth. Unfortunately we spend our lives never learning how to eat/fuel ourselves properly and damage our bodies ability to work efficiently and its a process to get back on the right track, sure you can loose a whole load of weight in 8 weeks but good luck keeping if off and your physical performance will blow. Just think how can you spend 30-50 years increasing your fat cells and expect them to disappear overnight? Don't let that discourage you but its the truth.

    I'm a veggie natural bodybuilder (15years) and performance trainer/nutritionist, I was a meat eater for years, tried various diets, fasted and all of that - what works is what you can stick to ultimately (that is were MFP comes into play). Last thing you have to lean to manage 'stress' as best you can, a stressed body isnt a compliant body and sleep is more quality than quantity I sleep 4-5hours a day.

    Add zinc and magnesium before you hit the pillow, it will increase sleep quality.
    J6y I agree. What I did those two times was an obsession and as a result, it was a drastic change in my life that did not stay. This last time I am going for a more gradual longer lasting change. One should not ditch everything, but slowly moving to more whole foods, reduced sugar and refined and processed carbohydrates and other foods should be the ultimate goal. You should change gradually and honestly, I never expect to lose large amounts of weight in a short time.

    Sleep requirements vary for each person, but I think most people don't get enough. Without enough sleep, which is less than 5-6 hours for me, I feel like crap and cannot do physical activity very well.

    You are right though. One needs to re-train their mind to eat and live differently, and this requires re-training your body on how to metabolize food better.

    Try to think of how you want to make permanent changes to your diet and lifestyle, ones that will last.

    J6y I would be interested to know what your diet is like.
    :)

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,104
    I realize your event has probably come and gone.

    Great book called 'racing weight' talks about weight loss for performance. A couple posters already hit on it, safe weight loss without performance hit is 1-2 lbs / week, so 4-8 per mo MAX. The high side of that is probably doable for a month here and there, but doubtful it would be consistent.

    We are all meant to be a different shape, it's all about maximizing power/performance with weight. Some folks do better at higher weight, just is what it is. Better to be 20 lbs overweight, feeling good and happy than cutting, miserable, moody with dead legs.

    I always err on the side of heavy and happy, for most of us without dietitians and a staff cooking, it's healthier and better for fitness.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    9,290
    After reading a bunch about vegetarian balanced and healthy cooking, I gave it a shot for 6 months.

    I gained 15 pounds and didnt feel good. It seems like healthy vegetarians, and especially vegans are more the exception than the rule.

    I did what everyone said not to do and went ultra low calorie. I lost 30 pounds in about 60 days. I kept it off for 7 years until I quit smoking and gained back 20. Im down 5 now and the rest is coming off smoothly as I make healthy adjustments.

    All things considered, I recommend it. It works amazingly well. Call it fasting if you want. Nothing works better to break bad food habits like not eating those bad food habits at all. When you reintroduce a healthy level of food, it needs to be a complete clean, healthy start.

    Yes, my performance suffered entirely for 60 days! Like in the toilet bad... but a week or so after it was over, climbing was at 30lb lighter felt like being shot out of a cannon. It was amazing.

Similar Threads

  1. Trip Report- 5 Days riding the Lost Coast and NorCal
    By bikenweed in forum Bikepacking and Bike Expedition
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 05-22-2016, 10:05 PM
  2. Picket Post Out & Back, Superior LOST Days
    By GilaMonster in forum Arizona
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 09:05 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-21-2014, 11:48 AM
  4. Beginner learning to pedal efficiently
    By Jave in forum XC Racing and Training
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-09-2013, 09:30 AM
  5. I lost my voice three days ago Nice
    By xcguy in forum Colorado - Front Range
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 08:06 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.