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  1. #1
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    Why is ther no thread about this?


  2. #2
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    Because I don't have that much money.
    BS'ing less, riding more.

    Supporting PAS
    Upstate SORBA
    SORBA

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    Why is ther no thread about this?
    There is HERE


    Quote Originally Posted by extrmtao
    Because I don't have that much money.
    +1

    but i did mention it on my blahg yesterday

  4. #4
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    I'm a bit curious about the ratio of total miles to singletrack miles, and I think they are counting any trail as singletrack.

    Day 1 - 51 miles / 21 singletrack
    Day 2 - 42 miles / 25 singletrack
    Day 3 - 46 miles / 28 singletrack


    They go up 477 several times - not very exciting really for spectators or racers... but that's just the only way to get over to the Hatchery side of the Forest ... Some notorious hike-a-bikes are missing, up Blk from the parking lot, up Farlow, up Avery (would it better than up 477?). And I'd trade the up Pilot Mtn gravel for the around the backside route of 5003/140A, that's longer and more challenging although not as steep.

    It would be an interesting exercise to try all three routes and get a sense of them, though you need to act fast to catch Bennett before it closes. It would also be interesting to watch them come down Pilot, Bennett, and Farlow
    many gears, some pies

  5. #5
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    Logover told me I shouldn't do it.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  6. #6

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    Mark my words, this thing is going to be big time! I really hope we have some strong locals representing. I'll be there...spectating and volunteering.

    It's definitivly "designed as a true race, not a test of survival." Hence, no laps up Farlow, etc.

    And even more, the race is giving back to the trails it uses in a big way by raising the bar (pretty high) in it's level of support it's giving to the local mtb club, Pisgah Area SORBA.
    Last edited by FeloniousDunk; 04-07-2009 at 01:44 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeloniousDunk
    It's definitivly "designed as a true race, not a test of survival." Hence, no laps up Farlow, etc..
    Well, it also says "The Pisgah Mountain Bike Stage Race is a 4 day epic journey in the backcountry of Western North Carolina." Now if it isn't a struggle for survival I don't think it qualifies as epic
    many gears, some pies

  8. #8
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    Good job Endomaniac, we might finally see a thread that doesn't talk about peoples politics . . . . this should be big 8-)
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    True true.............I guess one mans epic is another mans warm up.

    But any way you slice it, it has the potential to be quite the event and definitly unique. I'm looking forward to seeing how it unfold this year and in years to come.

    So who's representin'? Any guesses on who'll be racing?

  10. #10
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    well it's the same weekend as our DH Race at Paris so hopefully we wont lose any volunteer participation from this event... i know we wont be losing any participants because of Todd's race..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeloniousDunk
    nice change from what other local events do for the trails used.
    what other events are you referring to?


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    There is HERE


    That entry fee is steep I guess its all in the 30min. massage included in the entry fee. I can’t figure out what exactly a team is for this thing.
    Personally I have sworn off this promoter's events and considering the organizational disasters that have occurred at the one day events I have to wonder how 4 days will come together.

  14. #14
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    your Mobius Strip is covered in Escher ants

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    [/QUOTE]
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
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    Way to expensive for me and not nearly enough mileage.... Six mile time trial for day one? I'd definitely need a massage after that! I'm guessing this is aimed more toward out of towners who want to play in Pisgah for a few days and 'pros' who want to earn a little cash... I'll let then have Black for a few days and ride all the areas of the forest the event does not cover instead
    More Trails, Not Less

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  17. #17
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    o.k., I'll say it....

    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    what other events are you referring to?
    Eric, they are smack talking about you!

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    I am a little surprised by the responses so far.

    I, for one, am extremely happy that we have our own mountain bike stage race! (And this is coming from mainly a roadie.) Compared to the Breck Epic, there is more mileage per day for only half the cost and the prize list (at least in cash) is larger...

    I guess less people means more of a chance for me to win a slice of the pie.

  19. #19
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    Don't be surprised; this is the Internets.

    There's plenty of room for a race that's a little different from the 'normal' grinding, one-day Pisgah event. I hope it takes off. Brevard should be THE cycling destination of the East, and the more successful events we have, the better.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    Eric, they are smack talking about you!
    Yeah.... I PM'd him. He NOW knows that we contribute yearly to sorba AND I've gotten my hands dirty on trail workdays AND that we give our major $$$ donation every year to the Asheville Humane Society. Nothing wrong with that now is there?

    So, back to the regularly scheduled programming. This thread is about a new event in Pisgah, right? I hope it goes great!
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  21. #21
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    the entry fee is rather cheap compared to other stage races, it has to start sometime, so why not start now with a stage race in the area. .. looking forward to the stage race up there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    Eric, they are smack talking about you!
    Really? No names were named. But anyways, some race promoters have been giving back some to the trails but I'll stick by the fact that Todd is raising the bar a lot on giving back from this race.

    Now, who's racing?!

  23. #23
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    I gotta chime in:
    Comparing stage races is really an apples/orange thing for the most part. Get more here, but also less, get something exclusive here, but give up something else...

    I like that Todd broke down the purse from the get go. Nothing to hide behind, just up front communication from the start. This kinda stuff has gotten some promoters in hot water before. Still my options are to race SS class and hope to get $200 for first or race elite 40+ for a chance to make more money back(doh, just read that reg for the elite class is $100 too)... then again, I don't think I've ever had a chance to get any of my money back at any stage race, so this is a first when it comes right down to it. Cash at the Breck Epic only seems to be going to the open classes (pro), so I have no intentions of bringing home the green stuff.

    Value? That's up to the consumer I guess. When you look at mileage, difficulty, and such there are so many things to consider. How far is each stage, how many stages is it, elevation of the course (over 10,000 normally at BE VS 2,000-6,000 at PMBSR ), and elevation gain (40,000 over 200 miles at BE VS 38,000 over 145).

    What do you get for the money? Awesome marked courses at both events with support on the course. Then there's the extras... things you may or may not care for; jerseys, t-shirts, bike wash, door prizes, availability of tools/parts, general schwag, and such. There's the little things... BE has shuttles to take you around town so out of towners can still have transportation w/o a rental, but but PMBSR has cheap camping close by and a Walmart (I know, the devil), Taco Bell, and what-not just a bike ride away.

    Todd's got two way's he could market this. Keep it cheap to appease the schmucks (not that he thinks we're schmucks, I mean the folks like us who bust open the piggy bank to make it to races), or have higher entry fees with bigger purses that attract pros like Bishop, Price, Juarez, Tostado, etc and the associated media exposure with having said pros at the race. The former would build a base, and over time the race could be a success (like ORAMM has), but the former has a better chance of making this race go big time like TR, LR, TA, and all the others. Maybe eventually that will mean more days, more people, more tourism dollars, etc.

    I could go on and on (and perhaps later I will), but these are the things at the top of my pointed head at the moment.

    Will I be there? How much money will I have come October? Will I still have a job??

    Dunno.
    Last edited by teamdicky; 04-08-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeloniousDunk

    And even more, the race is giving back to the trails it uses in a big way by raising the bar (pretty high) in it's level of support it's giving to the local mtb club, Pisgah Area SORBA.
    Tell me more about this... curious there's no info on the website

  25. #25
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    This will be a good event for the area. I think we should support it because Todd is a good dude who does alot for cycling in the southeast.

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    Some good points, dicky. I was only using the BE as a point of comparison to say that we have a pretty good "valued" stage race (in all senses of the word) right here in our own backyard! Would love to do both if possible.

    Judging by Bishop's blog, it looks like he's just as excited as we are.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    Tell me more about this... curious there's no info on the website
    PAS will be providing volunteers for the event. Todd will be supporting PAS. Something similar to relationship at ORAMM. I don't think we need to get into specifics here on MTBR. But it's safe to say that this event directly benefits PAS's efforts. Todd is a good guy and he seams to look for opportunities to give back.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatTrick
    I was only using the BE as a point of comparison to say that we have a pretty good "valued" stage race (in all senses of the word) right here in our own backyard!

    As was I.

    BE is probably one of the better values out there for stage racing right now. It's a great one to draw a comparison with as far as stage races go.

    If you look at it in some other terms:

    PMBSR: You get a short six mile prologue* (sounds easy'ish with only 800' of elevation) and three stages @ $183 a stage.

    BE: Gives you a short nine mile prologue* (albeit 3015' of elevation gain!!!) and five stages @ $199 a stage.

    I'd say Todd's right in line with the value pricing. I just think some of us locals (yes, I said "us") are jaded. You know, "I can ride that stuff for free any day" mentality. Not to mention that "other promoter" who screws up the whole Pisgah race value market with his free (or close to it) events.

    I hope I can swing it, but there's a lot of time between now and then for me to spend my money on heroin and other habits.

    * Yes, I'm discounting the prologues in both races since they're not neccesarliy long enough to be a "stage", but kind of a way to get a short day of racing in to warm up after some traveling (for us mortals who don't come in days early and do it the smart way).
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  29. #29
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    Back when I heard about this as a concept, before I saw the course maps, I thought this has the potential to be one of the hardest races ever. It still looks stupid hard but the routes are not imposible. I'm not saying it's something I could do but I think there are many riders in the area who could finish this thing. What do you guys think?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Back when I heard about this as a concept, before I saw the course maps, I thought this has the potential to be one of the hardest races ever. It still looks stupid hard but the routes are not imposible. I'm not saying it's something I could do but I think there are many riders in the area who could finish this thing. What do you guys think?

    I think people get confused when they think of stage racing. I've seen lots of "regular people" doing these things, and I think most promoters try to keep them that way. Hard enough to be challenging, but not beyond the reach of mere mortals.

    The promoter usually wants people to have a good time, challenge themselves, and FINISH (once again, that "other guy" messes with this concept with great, perverse pleasure).
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Back when I heard about this as a concept, before I saw the course maps, I thought this has the potential to be one of the hardest races ever. It still looks stupid hard but the routes are not imposible. I'm not saying it's something I could do but I think there are many riders in the area who could finish this thing. What do you guys think?
    About the same distance and elevation as a good Double Dare effort, but with two extra
    days to complete it, along with Motel Rooms and Hand Cream between stages.

    I'd say it's do-able.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  32. #32
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    to address the "Why are you hating on Todd's new event?" emails i am not, I think it's cool that a top shelf event will be hosted in our area. what torqued me was the unsubstaniated claims that this race is giving back to the trails where other local races do not.

    Todd's a cool guy, i have a huge amount of respect for him and what he does forr our local cycling community. I hope that this event is a total success. It'll be cool to see our area trails getting some well deserved creds for being some of the most diverse & technical trails in the region if not the country. I know his intent is not going for the local crowd, but the high caliber , high dollar racers... and with Breck Epic and and now this is proof that market is expanding, and this will be huge.

    i can't help but think the down side to all of this....(yeah Mr. negative) I know Brevard's Chamber of Commerce will embrace this..... they're looking for revenue sources (who isn't?) but i've heard a lot of talk of Brevard want's to be the Moab of the East... Major cycling capitol of the SE ...(and this event will help with that, and that's all well and good)

    but what do you think the outcome of that will be? do you think Pisgah National Forest is going to open more trails to Bikes? probably not, if anything it'll restrict more trail to bikes. Why? More users = more damage, more poaching of non biking trails, more other user group conflicts.... Is Pisgah going to double to size of the Smokers Cove & Hatchery parking areas to accommodate the flood of tourist riders? not likely... and i don't want'em to.

    another point i'd like to make of why i jumped all over Feloniuos..... Our SORBA chapter has done nothing but continuously support PAS's efforts, Dupont work days, Ride events, National trail day, and yet we've seen no PAS volunteer support in any of our ventures... There was talk of maybe some PAS volunteers helping with our DH race, but now seems it's the very Same weekend as the Pisgah Stage Race.... and i'm sure PAS with it's loving embrace of this event, wont have the resources to help with ours.

    sorry for the rant

  33. #33
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    Sorry to highjack.

    "but what do you think the outcome of that will be? do you think Pisgah National Forest is going to open more trails to Bikes? probably not, if anything it'll restrict more trail to bikes. Why?"

    Well, if I managed PNF....here's why.

    "Us locals know pisgah is wet and we don't care.We are gonna ride anyway, rain or shine."

    But that's just me. If you disagree, I'm fine with that.

  34. #34
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    I'd be happy to volunteer for some Upstate events. There's no reason why we can't find people to volunteer for both events. Sign me up as a volunteer for the DH. I was planning to volunteer for Todd's thing but I'm sure we can find somebody else to take my place.

    I don't think I can make regular trail work days in SC but if you guys do something special like a national trails day thing then count me in.

    I'm well aware of what Upstate has done for PAS and I'm ready to pay you back. Just let me know where and when you want me. I'm also happy to put your call for volunteers on the PAS website, forums, etc... I though you knew that you only needed to ask and I'd do whatever I could to help. Don't forget we are all on the same team.

    Lastly, I've tried to include Upstate in all the fun things PAS does. Last year PAS invited Upstate to our fall gathering, This year PAS has invited Upstate to join in the epic trips were doing with TORC. Any time we have a party your invited.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenvic
    Sorry to highjack.

    "but what do you think the outcome of that will be? do you think Pisgah National Forest is going to open more trails to Bikes? probably not, if anything it'll restrict more trail to bikes. Why?"

    Well, if I managed PNF....here's why.

    "Us locals know pisgah is wet and we don't care.We are gonna ride anyway, rain or shine."

    But that's just me. If you disagree, I'm fine with that.
    Bill you are my friend, but if you managed PNF it would be closed every other day of the year. Man look at FATS ever since IMBA designated it as an EPIC Ride, plus magazine coverage. FATS is closed more than it is open... I know your trails can't handle 600-700 riders a day dry or wet. what trail system could?

  36. #36
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    Kudos to Todd for doing this. If you really break down what this event entails $550 is not an outrageous fee. I don't have the money, time or motivation to tackle it this year.

    With that said, right now I plan on tailgaiting on Pilot Rock to watch at least one stage! I'd love to see all the pros bomb through the rock garden with a beer in one hand and a cowbell in the other!
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenvic
    "but what do you think the outcome of that will be? do you think Pisgah National Forest is going to open more trails to Bikes? probably not, if anything it'll restrict more trail to bikes. Why?"
    Well, if I managed PNF....here's why.
    "Us locals know pisgah is wet and we don't care.We are gonna ride anyway, rain or shine."
    So you took Moto's bait.... He's right in that I'm a local and I really don't care if it's wet or dry I'll ride, but I'm not going to ride trails that suffer from being wet. Pick your spot and you can ride IN the rain and not cause a problem. Pick the wrong spot and you can ride days after if stops raining and still find mud..... Squirrel was awesome last weekend two days after 2" of rain, Butter was still a mud-pit on a sunny spring day.

    Let's be real - Transylvania County needs all the tourist dollars it can get and Mtn. Biking brings in $$$ just like hiking, fishing, road cycling, etc... Ultimately, the FS does recognize the value of biking in this part of the forest which is why we have so much MORE trail open in this district than any other Pisgah district. And there are many, many more miles of old singletrack and old fire roads that are not signed or marked and could easily be opened to recreational uses. It is easy to get possessive about this beautiful forest - but if you live here it's hard to overlook how much this community needs tourism and the associated jobs. 1/2 the kids my kids go to school with qualify for subsidized meals..... And BTW - the PNF land manager's kids go to those same schools so they know and understand the problems.
    many gears, some pies

  38. #38
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    ridn29 - good explanation on various trail conditions. Understand and agree with that. Do the same down here.

    Brad. FATS is hardly closed more than it is open. From April, 2008 to January 2009 FATS was never closed (except for the deer season thing in October and that is just the way it is).

    I hope Todd's event works out well for him, PAS, the town of Brevard and the racers. Best of luck to all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkjellquist
    With that said, right now I plan on tailgaiting on Pilot Rock to watch at least one stage! I'd love to see all the pros bomb through the rock garden with a beer in one hand and a cowbell in the other!
    +1

    I also want to watch at Bennett and Farlow. And I want to take my boy out there so he can see what the "sport" of Mtn. Biking is all about. It's a great opportunity to see the best riders on some of the toughest trails in the country.
    many gears, some pies

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenvic
    Brad. FATS is hardly closed more than it is open. From April, 2008 to January 2009 FATS was never closed (except for the deer season thing in October and that is just the way it is).

    I was kidding of course, guess i should've used a couple of winkies and smilies!

  41. #41
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    FYI: The FS recently asked PAS where we would like to see new trails open to bikes in Pisgah.

    Brevard has worked hard to establish a greenway so you can bike (or hike) from town into Pisgah.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    FYI: The FS recently asked PAS where we would like to see new trails open to bikes in Pisgah.

    .
    Cool ! What was your response?

    zb
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  43. #43
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    Were working up a big list. This is not going to happen overnight but our foot is very much in the door.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broussard
    Cool ! What was your response?

    zb
    I told him we already got one.



    ARTHUR:
    Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us food and shelter for the night, he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail.
    FRENCH GUARD:
    Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, you see.
    ARTHUR:
    What?
    GALAHAD:
    He says they've already got one!
    ARTHUR:
    Are you sure he's got one?
    FRENCH GUARD:
    Oh, yes. It's very nice-a. (I told him we already got one.)
    FRENCH GUARDS:
    [chuckling]


  45. #45
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    I might live up here in the mountains......

    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    to address the "Why are you hating on Todd's new event?" emails i am not, I think it's cool that a top shelf event will be hosted in our area. what torqued me was the unsubstaniated claims that this race is giving back to the trails where other local races do not.

    Todd's a cool guy, i have a huge amount of respect for him and what he does forr our local cycling community. I hope that this event is a total success. It'll be cool to see our area trails getting some well deserved creds for being some of the most diverse & technical trails in the region if not the country. I know his intent is not going for the local crowd, but the high caliber , high dollar racers... and with Breck Epic and and now this is proof that market is expanding, and this will be huge.

    i can't help but think the down side to all of this....(yeah Mr. negative) I know Brevard's Chamber of Commerce will embrace this..... they're looking for revenue sources (who isn't?) but i've heard a lot of talk of Brevard want's to be the Moab of the East... Major cycling capitol of the SE ...(and this event will help with that, and that's all well and good)

    but what do you think the outcome of that will be? do you think Pisgah National Forest is going to open more trails to Bikes? probably not, if anything it'll restrict more trail to bikes. Why? More users = more damage, more poaching of non biking trails, more other user group conflicts.... Is Pisgah going to double to size of the Smokers Cove & Hatchery parking areas to accommodate the flood of tourist riders? not likely... and i don't want'em to.

    another point i'd like to make of why i jumped all over Feloniuos..... Our SORBA chapter has done nothing but continuously support PAS's efforts, Dupont work days, Ride events, National trail day, and yet we've seen no PAS volunteer support in any of our ventures... There was talk of maybe some PAS volunteers helping with our DH race, but now seems it's the very Same weekend as the Pisgah Stage Race.... and i'm sure PAS with it's loving embrace of this event, wont have the resources to help with ours.

    sorry for the rant
    but I am gonna join upstate sorba! Brad, you da man.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Were working up a big list. This is not going to happen overnight but our foot is very much in the door.
    Hopefully the big list is about opening new trails (i.e old trails that aren't marked as such) - not opening currently off-limits trails. Any attempt to open up the off-limits trails will bring out opponents, opening up new trails means more access for everyone. The other big opportunity area is old logging roads (unmarked) and some current roads which are closed for linear wildlife openings.

    Opening up new areas (not changing the use of existing open areas) will help spread the load of forest users and should actually help the most over-used areas by reducing the concentration of users.
    many gears, some pies

  47. #47
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    Ask for both. There are several trails that I can think of that see very little if any hiker use that are off limits to bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ridn29s
    Hopefully the big list is about opening new trails (i.e old trails that aren't marked as such) - not opening currently off-limits trails. Any attempt to open up the off-limits trails will bring out opponents, opening up new trails means more access for everyone. The other big opportunity area is old logging roads (unmarked) and some current roads which are closed for linear wildlife openings.

    Opening up new areas (not changing the use of existing open areas) will help spread the load of forest users and should actually help the most over-used areas by reducing the concentration of users.

  48. #48

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    Guys,

    Don't worry about this too much yet. We just got an unofficial invite to take on this HUGE project and we haven't figured out how to wrap our arms around it just yet. It's going to be a public effort and you'll all be invited to the party. Stay tuned.

  49. #49
    Big Mac
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    Who's worried? Why it gotta be all secret and stuff? Lets hear the deal. Talky talk.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Who's worried? Why it gotta be all secret and stuff? Lets hear the deal. Talky talk.
    There's nothing secret about it, but like any big project, the most productive way to get it done isn't to just talk about it on the internets from the first day you've learned about it. We (all Pisgah riders) need a plan of attack because this is a big opportunity. But here's the deal....the bike community got a very INFORMAL invitation by someone in the FS to give them ideas, in conjunction with the other trail user groups, on places we'd all like to see new trails...focusing on connecting existing trails. None of this may ever come to fruition, but we're going to give it our best shot and that will take more people to step up in PAS and lead efforts!

    Man, this whole thread has opened up some cans.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeloniousDunk
    There's nothing secret about it, but like any big project, the most productive way to get it done isn't to just talk about it on the internets from the first day you've learned about it. We (all Pisgah riders) need a plan of attack because this is a big opportunity. But here's the deal....the bike community got a very INFORMAL invitation by someone in the FS to give them ideas, in conjunction with the other trail user groups, on places we'd all like to see new trails...focusing on connecting existing trails. None of this may ever come to fruition, but we're going to give it our best shot and that will take more people to step up in PAS and lead efforts!

    Man, this whole thread has opened up some cans.
    I reckon that was my point. You can't just say "hey the FS asked us where we want new trails! Now be quiet, don't talk about it, and don't ask questions" It's not gonna happen that way. I am certain that people will step up and do what they gotta do, they just gotta know what they gotta do. Know what I mean? Lets go get 'em tiger! I mean this is some exciting shizzle! Could we please have some more details? I mean what parts of Pisgah are we talking about? Now put that can opener away for a minute.

  52. #52
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    Hot Damn!

    Quote Originally Posted by ridn29s
    +1

    I also want to watch at Bennett and Farlow. And I want to take my boy out there so he can see what the "sport" of Mtn. Biking is all about. It's a great opportunity to see the best riders on some of the toughest trails in the country.
    If they can ride pilot with a beer in one hand and a cowbell in the other then they DESERVE to be pros!

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    You can't just say "hey the FS asked us where we want new trails! Now be quiet, don't talk about it, and don't ask questions"
    mbmb65, respectfully, neither maida nor I said that. I said, "It's going to be a public effort and you'll all be invited to the party. Stay tuned." No one is missing anything. We'll be kicking it off soon, real soon! And by the way the FS works, there's no need to get rushed.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    It's not gonna happen that way.
    Agreed 1000%.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    I am certain that people will step up and do what they gotta do, they just gotta know what they gotta do. Know what I mean? Lets go get 'em tiger!
    I hope so.

    This is just my impression, but it's based on some good evidence. The mtb community is making some serious inroads lately with landmanagers of all sorts in the greater Pisgah region. Because of this, I know there isn't a shortage of volunteer needs. How to show that you're willing, ready and able to step up? (mb, this isn't directed at you, just a broadcast statement) Come to work days, come to meetings, talk to people in a constructive manner, go to meetings that land managers have, lead group rides, build mtb community, show you're commited and not just a flash in the pan, have specific skills you can donate? advertise them to the mtb clubs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    I mean this is some exciting shizzle!
    DANG RIGHT!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Could we please have some more details? I mean what parts of Pisgah are we talking about?
    I've given you ALL the details already, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Now put that can opener away for a minute.
    Hi, my name is Shaun and I'm an MTBR addict....help.

  54. #54
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    Hey, everybody:

    The efforts of SORBA PAS are apparently paying off (faster than many thought they would). Rather than discussing it in an overly enthusiastic(drunken/insecure/testosteroned) way, please go to the PAS meeting and discuss it THERE. Join or don't join, just get involved IN THE PROPER VENUE. The Internets is worth what you pay for it.

    (I'm sorta pis sed that David/Van/Shaun hasn't contacted me first to find out EXACTLY what Pisgah needs, but I don't go to meetings... ... so I got no reason to complain. )

  55. #55
    drunken pirate
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    I'm confused

    Just what kind of massages are these going to be?

    Maybe I should reconsider
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood
    I'm confused

    Just what kind of massages are these going to be?

    Maybe I should reconsider
    I think I'm gonna try to squeeze in 30 one minute massages over four days.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    ....handle 600-700 riders a day dry or wet. what trail system could?
    Blankets Creek.
    SORBA-Woodstock Diggin' dirt since 1999.

  58. #58
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlloyNipples
    Blankets Creek.
    make me sound like yoda when i talk, you did. thanks


  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    make me sound like yoda when i talk, you did. thanks

    Dude, that made me giggle a little bit.

  60. #60
    It's not what you think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Dude, that made me giggle a little bit.
    Me too, good one.
    SORBA-Woodstock Diggin' dirt since 1999.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I think I'm gonna try to squeeze in 30 one minute massages over four days.
    I already checked Dicky, they're going to be "sexy time massages" with "maximum exertion for pleasuring the happy" according to their publicist. I think this sort of unbridled hedonism will be a welcome change to the "racing crowd" and also the "sexy time massage crowd", who mostly work at Cane Creek, specifically in the headset engineering department.

    I noticed the ORAMM prices shot up a bit as well. Is that on another thread? I don't mind the increase as the sexy time massage industry has been crippled during this recession, but how does everybody else feel (or want to feel)?
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpuke
    but how does everybody else feel (or want to feel)?
    For that kind of money, I want to feel like my headset is properly lubed, pressed and sealed.
    BS'ing less, riding more.

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  63. #63
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    It seems pretty in line with what I just paid for Cohutta, although the cost/mileage ratio is a little higher for ORAMM. The prize list has gone up by $100 for the open category, though, so I'm not complaining.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatTrick
    It seems pretty in line with what I just paid for Cohutta, although the cost/mileage ratio is a little higher for ORAMM. The prize list has gone up by $100 for the open category, though, so I'm not complaining.
    Salient points! Huzzah!
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatTrick
    It seems pretty in line with what I just paid for Cohutta, although the cost/mileage ratio is a little higher for ORAMM. The prize list has gone up by $100 for the open category, though, so I'm not complaining.
    It's certainly not my business to tell Todd how to run his, but it seems to me that $100 for ORAMM is a lot of money for some rest stops and a T-Shirt. The Freewheelers here in Spartanburg charge $80 for the real Assault on MM and they provide something like 8 rest stops, plus have to pay cops to control traffic along a 100 mile route. Not to mention having to pay a fortune for buses to transport everyone from the top back to Marion.

    I guess, since ORAMM is a race as opposed to just a ride, the bottom feeders such as myself have to subsidize paying prize money to the fast guys.

    Despite my whining, I plan to try my first ORAMM this year. I just hope they save me one beer!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike
    It's certainly not my business to tell Todd how to run his, but it seems to me that $100 for ORAMM is a lot of money for some rest stops and a T-Shirt. The Freewheelers here in Spartanburg charge $80 for the real Assault on MM and they provide something like 8 rest stops, plus have to pay cops to control traffic along a 100 mile route. Not to mention having to pay a fortune for buses to transport everyone from the top back to Marion.

    I guess, since ORAMM is a race as opposed to just a ride, the bottom feeders such as myself have to subsidize paying prize money to the fast guys.

    Despite my whining, I plan to try my first ORAMM this year. I just hope they save me one beer!
    You might want to worry more about water at the rest stops than beer at the finish
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  67. #67
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    Can meet worms, now burn you bastards cause the flaming has begun

    Okay, so this little thread is all over the board, to address Todd's race, 2 things:

    1. Todd is doing something new and really PRO, not locals style, but bring in LOADS of money and pump it into the local economy. THAT IS GREAT, no two ways about it. Mnt. Bikers spending money in a local economy makes the FS people and the Brevard city folks pay attention. MONEY TALKS.

    2. Speaking of MONEY TALKS, Todd has raised the bar on race promoters hooking it up for the local club. Not flaming any other promoters because their events are not anywhere near this scale. Don't think big, think huge.

    PAS being the keeper of the key with FS shiz? Yeah right. To speak to you all that say, "if you ask people will come". Remember the thread I put up in the fall last year? The FS asked PAS to rebuild and reroute Club Gap. I asked for someone to step up and you know what? NOBODY DID. It isn't an us vs. them kind of thing you idiots, PAS is you. It is that simple. One day maybe you will get off your GD computers and come out to workdays or meetings, hey, just come ride.

    Of course I am not talking to everyone, but if you got offended by my words it is probably because you just got called out. I don't know who half of you are, but I know that most of the words on this forum are not backed up by action. If you want to effect the world of mountain biking it takes sweat and teamwork, not hate and anger.

    Rant over and I hope to be proven wrong BIG TIME. Please, please show me I don't know what I am talking about and am just a cynical bastard, but I certainly ain't holding my breath.

    Ben out...

  68. #68
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    [QUOTE=mikeridesabike]It's certainly not my business to tell Todd how to run his, but it seems to me that $100 for ORAMM is a lot of money for some rest stops and a T-Shirt. QUOTE]

    We can't really be starting the entry fee discussion again, can we?

    You get a lot more than rest stops and a shirt at ORAMM.....rest stops, food, parking, insurance, BEER, accurate results & timing, weeks of trail work, cleanup, permission to race on the parkway, prizes, raffles, and a fun day on the bike.

    Also, Todd's company is "for profit". There is NOTHING wrong with that. All of his races sell out every year. There is a sufficient demand for his product at the current price.

    Supply & Demand
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  69. #69
    drunken pirate
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    So, what is Todd's proposal to PAS?

    If PAS is us shouldn't we know what the deal is???

    The event has the potential to bring in $85,000 in entry fees which means there is plenty of money for Todd to use to hire PAS. Instead of repeatedly saying that it is 'huge' and 'raises the bar' I'd like to know what the offer is and what is wanted in exchange. All the hinting is growing as stale as the rest of this thread.

    Todd has a great business model and a great business sense. No question about that.
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  70. #70
    H8 H8 H8
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    Double post, sorry.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  71. #71
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    If we're going to get into the "Haranguing About Trail Work" stuff again, why don't we
    go ahead and start a new thread rather than crapping all over this one.



    Quote Originally Posted by redriderbb
    you idiots
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  72. #72
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    Driftwood et. all

    If you want your questions answered go to the meeting on Monday at Beef o' Brady's. I honestly don't know the answers to some of your questions, but the people that do will be there.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    I'd be happy to volunteer for some Upstate events. There's no reason why we can't find people to volunteer for both events. Sign me up as a volunteer for the DH. I was planning to volunteer for Todd's thing but I'm sure we can find somebody else to take my place.

    I don't think I can make regular trail work days in SC but if you guys do something special like a national trails day thing then count me in.

    I'm well aware of what Upstate has done for PAS and I'm ready to pay you back. Just let me know where and when you want me. I'm also happy to put your call for volunteers on the PAS website, forums, etc... I though you knew that you only needed to ask and I'd do whatever I could to help. Don't forget we are all on the same team.

    Lastly, I've tried to include Upstate in all the fun things PAS does. Last year PAS invited Upstate to our fall gathering, This year PAS has invited Upstate to join in the epic trips were doing with TORC. Any time we have a party your invited.


    Dave, I know this and did not volunteer our group so that you had to "pay us back". That was never even a consideration. I (President) did this so that our young (chartered Aug.2007) advocacy group could hopefully learn from another advocacy group. We have never done this before and we needed some ideas. We also all ride in Pisgah and Dupont so thats why I did this. Remember when you came to our meeting at Barley's in G'vegas? We talked about helping each other since we are all in the same boat and ride the same trails, and are friends, and are ex-PAS members, etc., etc. This is about mt. biking and I would love to offer our help/involvement to any and all things in this area that pertains to mtn. biking. I guess Brad was thinking and typing at the same time. It happens. I'm not even worried about our DH race b/c it isn't for months. Plenty of time to figure it all out (with Cecil and the SC DH community). Oh. by the way, my race promoter retired and I need we need some help there. Todd was going to help but he might be alittle busy with things! I bet we can figure it out!

    I'm stoked to have both events at the same time because it could get people from outside of this region to come down and see our race if they want a diversion from the Stage race. Families of the racers can come down on saturday and participate if they want to or come down and watch some fast guys come down a mountain and showcase our areas riders. We had 2 national champions at our race and I hope to have them back. Maybe we need to get some more top eastcoast DH guys (Herdon,Jurgen Beneke,Nico Mulauly) to come to our race and have this in conjunction with the Stage race. How about having Sam Hill and the Athertons in Greenville racing while Tinker and Bishop are in Brevard racing! How's that for thinking "BIG"! This shouldn't be seen as a conflict but as another avenue to showcase our area as a true mountain biking region. You never know what the future might bring so think big and make it happen! I know Todd does, I rode in his first race he put on in Colatown when he was in college! He has come a long way and has had this drive ever since I met him 15 years ago.

    I'm excited for the future of mountain biking in our region (the southeast) and I am extremely honored to be apart of shaping what it will be and reaching for what it can be! Please get involved with whatever you want, if it is a race volunteer our help with trailwork or even going to meetings. It doesn't matter, but we hold the future in our hands and what we do, what we say, and how we handle ourselves will determine how far we can take this. Let's make the rest of the great country envious of what we made happen here. It can be done with the help and support that we all need to be doing as a whole.

    I'm done! Thanks for listening! Now back to promoting Tthe baddest MTB stage race that has ever happend on the eastcoast!

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