Squirrel and Kitsuma work- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Squirrel and Kitsuma work

    Anyone know when these are slated to start? I really need to ride Squirrel before it happens.
    Thanks.
    Tim

  2. #2
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    Two different contractors for these projects.

    Trail Design Specialist (Mike Riter) out of GA working on S. Gap. I doubt it will be anytime soon before he gets to this trail considering all the trails he has under contract right now (Looking Glass, Rainbow Falls, Moore Cove, Fletcher Creek) and the fact that he only has 1-2 folks working on these projects.

    Gary Greer with Greer Outdoors has the contract for Kitsuma and also Woods Mountain Trail. Gary is a retired USFS staff, in fact he used to be the trail manager and Fire Management Officer for Grandfather District. One man operation, progress will not be fast, but I don't have a clue when he will start.

    Woody

  3. #3
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    Thanks Woody.

  4. #4
    ohhman
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    "and the fact he has only 1-2 people working with him..."

    Just saw a Craigslist add for general labor needed.... from T.D.
    I believe it was " no experience needed. Will train on site"

    ... just FYI. If you want to ride squirrel, there are a couple groups going Sat

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by salmansp
    "and the fact he has only 1-2 people working with him..."

    Just saw a Craigslist add for general labor needed.... from T.D.
    I believe it was " no experience needed. Will train on site"

    ... just FYI. If you want to ride squirrel, there are a couple groups going Sat

    You should have noted this ad was for Trail Design Specialist (TDS) not from Trail Dynamics (TD). We would never post such an add on Craiglist. Trail Dynamics has a full crew of dedicated employees (10 of us total) that are juggled on all of our projects, many times we have several projects going on at the same time. Our work in Bent Creek will have 5 staff working on the project (Ed, Val, Marco, Hector, E.Z. and maybe Chuck) while Bob is currently working on the Rocky Knob project over in Boone. As for me, I am in Bend OR during the duration of both of these projects (But there are worse places to have to hang out for work and play).

    Woody

  6. #6
    banjo plunker, wrench
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    I hope that some work is done on Heartbreak Ridge as well...it is in pretty bad shape after ORAMM...the weather, and all of the riders in that race did a number on the trail...rough!
    any time spent riding a bicycle is re-cycled goodness....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaneedawg
    I hope that some work is done on Heartbreak Ridge as well...it is in pretty bad shape after ORAMM...the weather, and all of the riders in that race did a number on the trail...rough!
    To the best of my knowledge, there are no plans for contract work on HB Ridge. If a race really messed this trail up, it would seem that the promoter of said race has some level of responsibility (and on the case of ORAMM that promoter would also be a professional trail contractor who is well known for his trail efforts pre and post events).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaneedawg
    I hope that some work is done on Heartbreak Ridge as well...it is in pretty bad shape after ORAMM...the weather, and all of the riders in that race did a number on the trail...rough!
    I ride Heartbreak pretty regular and noticed how bad the ORAMM(also Kitzuma) messed it up this year. The main problem was riders making routes around stuff. I don't think it was bad enough to contract out the work, but that race is too big for the trails it uses. I'm all for the ORAMM but the race really needs to be scale down the number of entries.

  9. #9
    "Ride Lots" Eddy Merckx
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    If I recall there's a sign at the beginning of HB stating that it's been "adopted" by Todd and Blue Ridge Adventures. He does a lot of trail work before and after his races. I'm sure he is aware.
    "Big Gulps huh?...Allllriggghhht....Welp, See ya later!"

  10. #10
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    I have ridden HB and Kitsuma pre and post ORAMM. Have not seen any significant change in the trail tread on HB because of ORAMM. There are sections that have needed a little attention way before the race had anything to do with it. The race just exacerbated some of the issues. Kitsuma is a different story. Again this is not limited to racers chewing up the course but more because it is a very popular trail with the locals and out of town folks alike. Kitsuma definitely needs some love, guess that is why it is on the list of trails that have been contracted out.

  11. #11
    Third Degree Hater-Fu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snototter
    I have ridden HB and Kitsuma pre and post ORAMM. Have not seen any significant change in the trail tread on HB because of ORAMM. There are sections that have needed a little attention way before the race had anything to do with it. The race just exacerbated some of the issues. Kitsuma is a different story. Again this is not limited to racers chewing up the course but more because it is a very popular trail with the locals and out of town folks alike. Kitsuma definitely needs some love, guess that is why it is on the list of trails that have been contracted out.

    Todd and I bashed heads on this a few years back, but I've helped him (only once) clearing brush on Kitsuma as well. Your perception is incorrect. I rode Kitsuma the Tuesday after ORAMM a few years back and it was disgusting.

    I am an advanced rider and had to ride the majority of the trail top to bottom tripod with my seat slammed. It looked like a motocross track on a rainy day. Very bad. In wet conditions Kitsuma and Heartbreak get crushed by the ORAMM. A month or so later, it's difficult to the see the aftermath unless you witnessed the damage first hand.
    I am not a "Role Model"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizutch
    Todd and I bashed heads on this a few years back, but I've helped him (only once) clearing brush on Kitsuma as well. Your perception is incorrect. I rode Kitsuma the Tuesday after ORAMM a few years back and it was disgusting.

    I am an advanced rider and had to ride the majority of the trail top to bottom tripod with my seat slammed. It looked like a motocross track on a rainy day. Very bad. In wet conditions Kitsuma and Heartbreak get crushed by the ORAMM. A month or so later, it's difficult to the see the aftermath unless you witnessed the damage first hand.


    Please re-read my post I said Kitsuma is in dire need of repair. I respectively disagree that ORAMM is the reason. Maybe if ORAMM was the only time that trail saw tires but it is not. Kitsuma sees almost as much use as some of the trails in Bent Creek. You say a month or two later(a couple of years ago) it is difficult to see the aftermath. Does that mean someone fixed it or it repaired itself because it really was just superficial surface damage? Can't remember the last time there was an organized trail day for Kitsuma( you can say I am quite active in PAS) That is why the USFS has jumped in.

    Two weekends after ORAMM 2010 I rode HB and saw no noticeable tread damage that would be directly related to ORAMM. I saw the exact same tread damage the first weekend in April, in May and also in June. Residual from ORAMM 2009, 2008, 2007 maybe, but what about my 7 or so rides before ORAMM plus all the other weekend riders I saw out there, before ORAMM, in the rain and dust alike? Just read a post(different thread) a few days ago and the guy was raving about how great HB's condition is even after the running of ORAMM 2010. I don't believe there has been any work done since ORAMM 2010. So who is right about the current conditions? Trashed or in good shape? Compared to Avery Creek or Fletcher Creek or even Kitsuma, HB is in fine shape. I am not denying 300-400 riders do not take its toll on a trail but so do endless weekend rides from us all in all types of weather. ORAMM is a good thing for the area, like it or not. Next posted trail work day for HB we need to make sure we all pitch in to help keep that trail a crown jewel of the area whether we just casually ride HB or love racing ORAMM, in which I do both. If we don't then USFS may add HB to the list of shovel ready "maintenance" bids in the future.

  13. #13
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    The problem is riders make new trails around stuff instead of riding over obstacles or walking . The did worst show up this year after the ORAMM. The trails see no where near the traffic any Bent Creek trails do.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokeONE
    The problem is riders make new trails around stuff instead of riding over obstacles or walking . The did worst show up this year after the ORAMM. The trails see no where near the traffic any Bent Creek trails do.

    Agreed about the ride arounds. Ride arounds happen everywhere in Pisgah that is a fact and it usually has nothing to do with races. Now if you are going to argue that PMBAR, the Stage race, Double Dare, Pisgah 36, Save the Trails, Swank are all responsible for the destruction of Pisgah trails then there is really nothing I can say to change your mind. As far as the ride arounds and that kind of trail damage I have witnessed first hand folks trying to make some of that stuff(on Heartbreak, Kitsuma, and other places in Pisgah) aborting or even some who stick it, off the chosen line, and end up destroying tread. Damage looks the exact same as with the ride arounds, it is just off the downhill side of the feature(log jumble, rock drop, ramp, steep switchback, etc). Trail creep looks just as bad to USFS and environmentalist as ride arounds. It all needs some attention at some point.

    If you were to set up a counter at the trail head of Kitsuma and the trail head to Greens Lick I would wager my measly paycheck they would be close. But yes you are right sections of BC see a ton more riders.

  15. #15
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    What made me disappointed that I was part of the mountain bike community was last week riding squirrel on the turkey pens side there is a move that has existed for years involving a rock outcropping knee-high, middle of the trail, which used to have a small tree and now just has a sappling off to the right, with branches pruned, that was a real big chainring tooth breaker. The move was hard. Pretty ridiculous actually and contributed to my decision to always ride a 32 with a bash guard. The rock move is right before the little rest spot halfway between Laurel Creek and Cantrell Creek. The moral of my story is this: after years of working to get the squeeze move after the lift up and over of said rock, there is now a cheater trail slightly uphill by-passing the whole little thing. Ahhhh, I was so pissed. Gosh I was pissed to see this. Lift your damn bike over the rock in the trail, big freaking deal. No one cares. But no, pansy-asses have dicked around it and made new tread. I stacked a bunch of deadfall and brush to discurage use but it'll be gone by this weekend I'm sure. Same with Bennett. People making new lines to avoid obstacles. There is no shame in dabbing a tough move. Or, protect the current shape of the trails and dismount. Or, practice. Don't plow around things. Because that actually does not make you a better rider. Same can be said for the new lines developing on Black. It is contagious and really bums me out. I hope that as a community we will ponder my post, sigh, and decide to work on our technical skills.
    "You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time."

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