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  1. #1
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    About 3 weeks ago my girlfriend and I were riding in Dupont and I saw a couple with a normal FS bike and a fully suspended electric bike riding gravel around the visitors center.

    Then, this morning, I encountered a pair of these jokers on very high end looking electric full suspension bikes on FS 5000.

    5000 is a road open to motorized vehicles, and its unfair to assume that they were going to hit trails. However, I assume that they were going to hit the trails.

  2. #2
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    As long as they are not noisy, tearing up the trails or knocking over slower riders that are pedaling, it won't bother me any.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    I think the FS rules are trails are open to "non motorized vehicles". I can only guess this would include electric motors too. Im with Kjuled... as long as they arent noisy and tearing up stuff Im ok with it.

    But what happens when they run out of batteries!?!?!
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  4. #4
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    I'm most definitely not ok with them on trails. Not even a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post

    But what happens when they run out of batteries!?!?!
    They get to pedal a 50lb bike. Probably only funny if your not the one doing the pedaling. lol

    These bikes are not effortless, just easier. You still need to pedal and they shouldn't be confused with electric motorcycles.
    Also, I highly doubt anyone will be lugging them to the top of Black or other technical trails.

    I am willing to see what happens before I let it bother me.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Im more against the "idea" of electric mountain bikes than the actual bike itself. Mountain biking is and always will be about getting there on your own sweat and sore legs. If someone wants to ride one up roads or trails open to motorized use go ahead. As the rules exist now they wouldnt be able to legally (and shouldnt) ride them on anything closed to motor vehicles. So no need to worry about them taking over our trails..

    I mean lets call it what it is... A motorcycle.


    The ASS's article on the homepage is along the lines of what I imagine the majority of riders feelings are toward electric motor bikes.
    On your left!

  7. #7
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    It's a motorized vehicle. Therefore, it is illegal on every inch of single track not open to motocross bikes or 4wd. They're welcome at Wayhutta (sp?) or Brown Mountain, or the many miles of trail open to motocross in other parts of the country, but will get a piece of my mind just like a motocross bike would if I see it on single track that's not open to motocross. And don't tell me I'm a motor too, that's specious logic.

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    I am with you on the pedaling part. I do this for exercise as much as for fun.

    However, one day I may be too old and weak to get out on the trail using 100% of my own power and it sure will be nice to have an electric assisted bike if it will help me do what I love to do. At this point though, I have no desire to own one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post

    I mean lets call it what it is... A motorcycle.
    If you poll motorcycle guys, they will probably "it has pedals so it is a bicycle".
    If you poll bicycle guys, they will say "it has a motor so it is a motorcycle".

    It is is both and I am not for banning them just because we may think they will be a problem.

    What about motorized prosthetic legs? Should people be allowed to hike trails with them?

    I'm not saying laws don't need to be put in place but just banning them before we even see how they are going to interact with other trail users isn't right either.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I am with you on the pedaling part. I do this for exercise as much as for fun.

    However, one day I may be too old and weak to get out on the trail using 100% of my own power and it sure will be nice to have an electric assisted bike if it will help me do what I love to do. At this point though, I have no desire to own one.



    If you poll motorcycle guys, they will probably "it has pedals so it is a bicycle".
    If you poll bicycle guys, they will say "it has a motor so it is a motorcycle".

    It is is both and I am not for banning them just because we may think they will be a problem.

    What about motorized prosthetic legs? Should people be allowed to hike trails with them?

    I'm not saying laws don't need to be put in place but just banning them before we even see how they are going to interact with other trail users isn't right either.

    The [probably, guessing on #] thousands of motocross riders who want more access would say that by allowing motorized mountain bikes on the trails we use, we just set precedent that motocross bikes should be allowed too. I'm not ok with opening that can of worms- really not ok with it.

    By the way, if you want to use the prosthetic legs argument, then yes, I am willing to accept that there is a place for people who need a motorized bicycle to get into the woods because of a physical disability - which does not equal a lack of fitness. Lack of fitness is a lack of ability, not a dis-ability.
    Last edited by Mike Brown; 09-04-2014 at 06:50 PM.

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    Like I said, it isn't something we can turn a blind eye to but I also don't think it is something we should just shut completely down either. I can definitely see the potential bad from this but I can also see potential good.

    Obviously, there would need to be pedals and limits to potential speed of these bikes.
    Considering these things, I doubt the motocross community will be running to the local bike shops to drop $5k in a bike that will probably only go about 10mph on a flat surface just so they can shred some sweet single track.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  11. #11
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Like I said, it isn't something we can turn a blind eye to but I also don't think it is something we should just shut completely down either. I can definitely see the potential bad from this but I can also see potential good.

    Obviously, there would need to be pedals and limits to potential speed of these bikes.
    Considering these things, I doubt the motocross community will be running to the local bike shops to drop $5k in a bike that will probably only go about 10mph on a flat surface just so they can shred some sweet single track.
    What potential good do you see? I see a nightmarish precedent that I really don't want to see. How are these things different to motorcycles? Cycles, with a motor? What am I missing? I know a guy that built a bad arse electric sport bike. It's quiet, but damn fast.

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    I know exactly how insanely fast an electric bike can be but like I said, limits would need to be made.

    Stated earlier the benefits to certain people that an e-bike can be.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  13. #13
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    Everybody shouldn't be allowed to do everything.

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    I agree with the "absolutely not" line of reasoning.

    If someone were physically limited to the point of needing an electric bike, and I suspect that would be a very, VERY, small number of people, then they could ride them on the legal FS roads. A few that comes to mind is Wash Creek road and Yellow Gap road both right there together.
    But if they have some physical disability to prevents them from riding a traditional mtn bike, I would suspect if they are miles from the trailhead and something malfunctions with the electric or they are injured, they're going to be in significantly worse trouble than the typical biker.

    But that's not my real concern.

    I remember way back when motorized "bicycle scooters" first became legal. They HAD to have pedals, and the pedals had to activate the motor. In other words, if you were stopped, you had to pedal it forward for the motor to activate and start pulling. There were few around.
    Fast forward 20+ years and they have morphed into motorcycle like machines and a significant industry. Here in Henderson county, we are plagued by mopeds/scooters. They aren't so bad right in town where speed limits rarely are even 45. But out in the country the &#%[email protected] things clog roads and create traffic hazards. They labor uphill at 30mph in a 50 mph zone with cars backed up and won't get over to let the cars by. They are like vermin and every one of them occupied by what looks like a burned out meth head. At the same time, I've seen them riding double, doing 50+ mph uphill! Obviously "modifications" can be done in them to make them capable of doing something that was not originally intended.

    The point is, what started out as a few "motorized bicycles" has turned into an industry catering to the DUI/no license/no insurance market. The product has changed dramatically and thus, our roadways have changed dramatically as a result.

    If we allow motorized bikes on the trails, we will have let a genie out of the bottle that will likely never be put back in the bottle. In short order, I can guarantee, some manufacturers will alter the product. We'll start seeing big fat knobby tires and motors capable of pulling the steepest grades. Speeds will naturally increase and the need to pedal will be negated. I can see some guy grunting uphill under his own power and being overtaken by motorized "mountain bikes". Trail erosion, more conflict between hikers, bikers, and motor bikers, horses and then...

    Then the dirtbike gang and four wheelers will demand equal access and well.... you can see where this is going.

    I simply believe we should keep our trails non-motorized as long as possible. Once that changes, it changes forever and I can envision nothing good or positive coming from opening them up to motorized traffic.

  15. #15
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    Heck, right after I wrote ^that^ I saw this.


    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?-bionix_fate.jpg

    Imagine ^that^ with a high torque motor running all over our trails.
    Here's a link to a blog the photo is from.
    The Angry Singlespeeder: Will e-bikes short circuit mountain biking? | Mountain Bike Review

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    "They are like vermin and every one of them occupied by what looks like a urned out meth head. At the same time, I've seen them riding double, doing 50+ mph uphill! Obviously "modifications" can be done in them to make them capable of doing something that was not originally intended.

    The point is, what started out as a few "motorized bicycles" has turned into an industry catering to the DUI/no license/no insurance market. The product has changed dramatically and thus, our roadways have changed dramatically as a result."

    Get off your soapbox guy. Those people are the disenfranchised, the cyclically poor, and often times they are veterans. Pay wages have not met the exponential inflation of the dollar, the yen or the peso, in many years. The cost of food, homes, child care, insurance, gasoline, and car prices themselves go up every year. Who are you say that they don't work hard enough?

    Some of them might be drug addicts, and some of them might be drunks, but don't lump everyone into some arbitrary category that you created.

    They are no different than bikes on roads. If it was some scenester racer guy you sycophantically drooled over on an S-Works 'laboring' up the hill would give him the same treatment, irritated at his presence?

    Treat your fellow human beings with some respect, because as a member of civilized society that is what you are charged with.

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    Who are you to lecture me? I stand on my soapbox when I wish. This is an open forum and last I checked, a free country.
    You believe what you wish insofar as who the moped riders are around here. Blame greedy capitalists, inflation, cost of gas, heck the weather I don't really care what you think.

    The FACT is, these people, regardless of their background, WILL NOT PULL OVER AND LET CARS PASS!! This creates a traffic hazard as oftentimes, cars have to pass in no passing zones, etc.

    Not only that, it is INCONSIDERATE! What kind of a-hole rides in the middle of a lane with 15 cars backed up behind them?

    The fact of the matter is, the majority have lost their licenses to DUI convictions. That's not "putting them into some category I created". There is a reason they are called "liquor-cycles".

    And for the record, I said nothing about their work ethic...nothing.

    So before you exercise you hypocrisy by putting ME into some "category YOU created" perhaps you could use some reading comprehension skills.

    I posted my opinion. They are a traffic hazard...fact, not opinion. One was killed recently right here in Henderson County.

    And take your OWN advice of "treating your fellow human beings with respect" and get off YOUR soapbox. YOU lumped them into a category YOU created... and then drew conclusions as to my own personality and put ME into yet another category YOU created...hypocrite.

    Poor, downtrodden, disenfranchised, substance abuser, etc. Being inconsiderate is not a right afforded one because of their condition in life.

  18. #18
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    Let'em ride....with the motorcycles & mopeds, cause that is essentialy what they are, then we'll see how much fun they have.
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

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    They're motorcycles, and are prohibited on non-motorized trails, as they should be.

    If they want to lobby for more trails open to motorized use, then fine - but that's a long, hard battle.

    Until that's won, they need to stick to the roads.

  20. #20
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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2GdI8z5dWi4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Skip to the 4 minute mark.

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    Presenting basically the same arguments used for why bicyclists should stay off the road is a bit odd in a cycling forum. I view moped riders as being the same class as me when I ride to work on my bike, traffic-wise.

  22. #22
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    Quote Originally Posted by WNCGoater View Post
    Who are you to lecture me? I stand on my soapbox when I wish. This is an open forum and last I checked, a free country.
    You believe what you wish insofar as who the moped riders are around here. Blame greedy capitalists, inflation, cost of gas, heck the weather I don't really care what you think.

    The FACT is, these people, regardless of their background, WILL NOT PULL OVER AND LET CARS PASS!! This creates a traffic hazard as oftentimes, cars have to pass in no passing zones, etc.

    Not only that, it is INCONSIDERATE! What kind of a-hole rides in the middle of a lane with 15 cars backed up behind them?

    The fact of the matter is, the majority have lost their licenses to DUI convictions. That's not "putting them into some category I created". There is a reason they are called "liquor-cycles".

    And for the record, I said nothing about their work ethic...nothing.

    So before you exercise you hypocrisy by putting ME into some "category YOU created" perhaps you could use some reading comprehension skills.

    I posted my opinion. They are a traffic hazard...fact, not opinion. One was killed recently right here in Henderson County.

    And take your OWN advice of "treating your fellow human beings with respect" and get off YOUR soapbox. YOU lumped them into a category YOU created... and then drew conclusions as to my own personality and put ME into yet another category YOU created...hypocrite.

    Poor, downtrodden, disenfranchised, substance abuser, etc. Being inconsiderate is not a right afforded one because of their condition in life.
    So clearly you feel entitled. Does your hatred carry over to bicycles on the road as well? Those motorized things with pedals you remember are called MOPEDS. Get it? Mo= motor and ped=pedal. Not the same as a scooter. Like them or not, they're legal on the roads here. Your hatred is misguided. Your coming off as entitled and a little ignorant.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNCGoater View Post
    Who are you to lecture me? I stand on my soapbox when I wish. This is an open forum and last I checked, a free country.
    Well then I guess in saying that it is his right to lecture you.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNCGoater View Post

    The FACT is, these people, regardless of their background, WILL NOT PULL OVER AND LET CARS PASS!! This creates a traffic hazard as oftentimes, cars have to pass in no passing zones, etc.
    Like it or not, they don't have to. It is more dangerous for them to pull over and then have to pull out.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNCGoater View Post

    Not only that, it is INCONSIDERATE! What kind of a-hole rides in the middle of a lane with 15 cars backed up behind them?
    Inconsiderate a-hole maybe but still within their legal rights.

    Anyways, I don't like them in general either. I think they should be licensed and insured. Moving forward though they are going to require tags on them soon.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Anyone know how much one of these E bikes cost? My 10.5 seconds of Googling didnt turn up much. I would think that they would have to be a fortune. At that point, why would someone buy one as opposed to a legit motorcycle/dirtbike that can go faster, farther, and has an already established user group to ride with?

    and leave the scooters be man...they aint hurting nobody. Heaven forbid your 20 seconds late because a "meth head with a DUI conviction" is trying to get somewhere. I have many friends that ride scooter simply because its cheap and efficient. One is a lawyer and the other has a degree in Engineering. Pretty sure neither is on meth or has a DUI.

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    Looks like you can get a Scott Aspect for about $3k
    I am sure the full suspension and higher end ones will get in the $10k+ range.

    Basically I don't see a lot of these hitting the trails anytime soon seeing as they are the price of a nice motorcycle. I am sure that will change as technology gets better and cheaper.

    Also I really don't see anyone hitting the technical trails with them or even venturing far off the gravel roads.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well then I guess in saying that it is his right to lecture you.

    You are correct. Never questioned his right, per se.


    Like it or not, they don't have to. It is more dangerous for them to pull over and then have to pull out.

    You are correct, they don't have to. Like I said it is a consideration issue.
    I disagree that it is any more dangerous to pull into a side road and let traffic pass than it is to make a right turn. And frankly, I was talking more about moving to the edge so a car can get by without having to go completely in the left lane.


    Inconsiderate a-hole maybe but still within their legal rights.

    You are correct, it is their legal right, and yes, your are also correct in that they are inconsiderate a-holes when they (intentionally) don't let faster traffic pass.

    Anyways, I don't like them in general either. I think they should be licensed and insured. Moving forward though they are going to require tags on them soon.

    I agree, they should be licensed and insured.
    FWIW, the road bikers DO pull over and ride the edge so that cars can pass, at least in my experience they do. It is the RARE moped/scooter rider that will do that, again, in my experience. Bike riders are WAY slower than scooters and thus, easier to pass quickly and safer for the rider and the car passing.

    However, my comments weren't about mopeds but they were used in the context as an example of original intent transforming into something that was likely never intended once the restrictions were lifted and they were allowed on the road, and that in the context of a likely scenario if motorized bikes are allowed on trails. Apparently in my obvious disdain for mopeds and scooters, I offended a moped rider somewhere up there.

    So my apologies to the OP for the thread hijack. That was not my intent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNCGoater View Post
    FWIW, the road bikers DO pull over and ride the edge so that cars can pass, at least in my experience they do. It is the RARE moped/scooter rider that will do that, again, in my experience. Bike riders are WAY slower than scooters and thus, easier to pass quickly and safer for the rider and the car passing.
    I rarely road bike but when I do, I never ride the edge.
    It isn't a matter of being an *******, it is a matter of safety.

    If I ride the edge, cars try and pass within the lane and not leaving me much room.
    In addition, the edge is where most the debris and road hazards are.
    If I ride a few feet out, cars use the other lane and give me twice the room. I also have a enough room to my right to move around road hazards.

    Scooters are wider and harder to control than bicycles and therefore riding the edge is very dangerous. Also pulling over and then trying to pull back out on a scooter is dangerous and isn't legally required. If they ride the edge and you pass within the same lane, you are way too close when passing. So why does it matter if they ride the edge or the middle of lane considering either way you still need to be partially or totally in the other lane to pass anyways?

    I hate the fact that scooters are so easily obtained by both drunks and underage drivers as they require no license or insurance. However, I don't blame the riders and my animosity to the situation is not directed to them. Instead it is directed towards the laws that allow it to be so easy and my efforts are in to changing those laws.

    That is the American way.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    BTW, my job requires a lot of driving. As much as 100 miles a day.
    If I added up all the time I spend stuck behind scooters, it is insignificant. I doubt it is a minute a day average wasted. I probably spend more time behind bicycles but it is also probably less than a minute a day average.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    BTW, my job requires a lot of driving. As much as 100 miles a day.
    If I added up all the time I spend stuck behind scooters, it is insignificant. I doubt it is a minute a day average wasted. I probably spend more time behind bicycles but it is also probably less than a minute a day average.
    Touche' , very good point. Most of my irritation is a result of my own impatience. That I cannot deny.
    And in spite of my disdain, I give them a wide berth as I couldn't forgive myself if I hit someone as a result of that impatience... even while cursing them under my breath.


    But I find myself again, apologizing to the OP for the thread hijack and vow not to respond further off-topic!

  31. #31
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    Basically it is like this. Almost all the trails I ride on and all of the trails I avoid have rules that state that no motorized vehicles are allowed. An ebike is motorized, therefore not allowed.

    If they (ebikers) want to use the trails that they are currently not allowed to use, then they will need to follow the same long path of approval we are still on. They will still have to fight the same if not more (by now) adversaries that we fought to get where we are.

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    Kill them with Fire!!!
    But seriously as others have stated there motorized vehicles.
    Let them ride the OHV areas to there hearts content. But stay the hell out of our single track!
    UGG boots will germinate Paris Hilton like intellect in your soles!

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    Quote Originally Posted by me. View Post
    Basically it is like this. Almost all the trails I ride on and all of the trails I avoid have rules that state that no motorized vehicles are allowed. An ebike is motorized, therefore not allowed.

    If they (ebikers) want to use the trails that they are currently not allowed to use, then they will need to follow the same long path of approval we are still on. They will still have to fight the same if not more (by now) adversaries that we fought to get where we are.
    I agree but the damn things are pretty damn quiet, and unless you know what you're looking for, would probably not even know the thing is motorized.
    Should be interesting to see what happens.
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?-s780_e_bike_trail_etiquette_guide.jpg

    Interbike has us covered

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    Quote Originally Posted by matty22c View Post
    Interbike has us covered
    Can you post some pics of the inside of the brochure? Curious to see what it says.
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    I wish I was at interbike, but sadly I am not. I pulled that photo from vital, they didn't have any additional photos.

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    Hopefully the bike industry will market clothing and helmets specific to E-bikers so we can spot them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Can you post some pics of the inside of the brochure? Curious to see what it says.
    That brochure is put out by Currie Tech but that is the only one they do not have a PDF on yet. However it may be coming.

    Here is a link.

    Currie Tech Marketing Materials - eBike Brocures - Electric Bike Catalog
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    That brochure is put out by Currie Tech but that is the only one they do not have a PDF on yet. However it may be coming.

    Here is a link.

    Currie Tech Marketing Materials - eBike Brocures - Electric Bike Catalog
    Thanks for posting. Interesting that it is NOT considered a motorized vehicle.

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    Even though ebikes have an electric motor they are still bicycles imho (and european law). The important difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle is that the bicycle needs human power to propell themselves and thats why a ebike only offers assistance and thus always needs human power to move. Also the power level of an ebike is more then a 100x less then a typical motorcycle, 0.25kW vs 25~100kW. And the electric motor only assists up to ~15mph. Because of this (<250W and assist <15mph) they are legally considered bicycles in europe.

    Also ebikes arent necessarily for lazy people at all. Ofcourse you could use them in a way that it is less exhausting to ride but you could also use it to to go faster on a normally slow section and thus still have the same workout but also have more fun due to the extra speed. And all without noise, polution or additional damage to the trail.

    depending on how popular they will become in the US it might be in your best interest to get certain ground rules in place and get them accepted as bicycles. I doubt you could get them banned from trails when a couple of major manufacturers are already offering them. If you could get ebikes classified as regular bicycles then it shouldnt pose any additionall problems with trail acces?

  41. #41
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    Why in the hell would we want them to be considered bicycles? They're not bicycles. They're motorcycles and should be treated as such. We don't need people advocating for theses things.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyvG View Post
    Even though ebikes have an electric motor they are still bicycles imho (and european law). The important difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle is that the bicycle needs human power to propell themselves and thats why a ebike only offers assistance and thus always needs human power to move. Also the power level of an ebike is more then a 100x less then a typical motorcycle, 0.25kW vs 25~100kW. And the electric motor only assists up to ~15mph. Because of this (<250W and assist <15mph) they are legally considered bicycles in europe.

    Also ebikes arent necessarily for lazy people at all. Ofcourse you could use them in a way that it is less exhausting to ride but you could also use it to to go faster on a normally slow section and thus still have the same workout but also have more fun due to the extra speed. And all without noise, polution or additional damage to the trail.

    depending on how popular they will become in the US it might be in your best interest to get certain ground rules in place and get them accepted as bicycles. I doubt you could get them banned from trails when a couple of major manufacturers are already offering them. If you could get ebikes classified as regular bicycles then it shouldnt pose any additionall problems with trail acces?
    Upon re-reading your post, I realize that you sound very much like a shill.

  43. #43
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    I just read the latest issue of Dirt Rag magazine with it's article on ebikes. It's a horrible one-sided excuse for journalism, it's obvious they are merely justifying the upcoming ebikes for future spots in their future issues.

    They say it will be a boom for the industry and a way for non-fit people to enjoy the sport. Greed and laziness ...murica!

    Bicycles and mtnbiking have always been about the simplicity of the machine and the challenge to your fitness level. The ebike is an insult to both. Can you imagine cleaning your most difficult climb to have some out-of-shape clueless disney-worlder pass you at the top with his electric bicycle and say, dude this is so rad. I'll throw a branch in his wheel.

    Mtnbiking is a hard earned purest's sport, there's no way the fat lazy masses can join and it be a good thing.

    Rant over.
    Pisgah Forest NC

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Upon re-reading your post, I realize that you sound very much like a shill.
    lol you couldnt be further from the truth. I have no affiliation or financial interest in the ebike industry. or even in the cycling industry in general. allthough I do work in the semicondutor industry so I do benefit from the microchips in ebikes

    ebikes are apparanly already considered bicycles in certain states, or I am misinterpreting the information given here?
    Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Is a downhiller lazy for not cycling up the hill? or does he just enjoy mountainbiking in a different form? For me mountainbiking isnt about the pedalling but about riding single track with as much fun/speed as possible so if an ebike helps with that then I see no problem. especcially since ebikes are pretty much equal to regular mountainbikes in terms of noise, polution, speed, danger to others. Unlike high-powered electric/petrol motorcycles.
    But I guess I will never understand the problems of trail acces in the US so I will try to just leave the discussion for what it is.

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    I think we should ban 29ers from the trails. They allow less experienced people to go faster, easier.

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    there way more moto than bike

    Anyone who bothered to view newfangled's post can plainly see they are not bikes that have to be pedaled. imagine those guys roosting like that in Pisgah on a wet day.
    Those things will destroy our trails!
    UGG boots will germinate Paris Hilton like intellect in your soles!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by park baker View Post
    I think we should ban 29ers from the trails. They allow less experienced people to go faster, easier.
    What ever. I think we should ban dorks.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyvG View Post
    lol you couldnt be further from the truth. I have no affiliation or financial interest in the ebike industry. or even in the cycling industry in general. allthough I do work in the semicondutor industry so I do benefit from the microchips in ebikes

    ebikes are apparanly already considered bicycles in certain states, or I am misinterpreting the information given here?
    Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Is a downhiller lazy for not cycling up the hill? or does he just enjoy mountainbiking in a different form? For me mountainbiking isnt about the pedalling but about riding single track with as much fun/speed as possible so if an ebike helps with that then I see no problem. especcially since ebikes are pretty much equal to regular mountainbikes in terms of noise, polution, speed, danger to others. Unlike high-powered electric/petrol motorcycles.
    But I guess I will never understand the problems of trail acces in the US so I will try to just leave the discussion for what it is.
    eBikes are NOT mtn biking in a different form, they are motorized vehicles, in another form.
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by carverboy View Post
    Anyone who bothered to view newfangled's post can plainly see they are not bikes that have to be pedaled. imagine those guys roosting like that in Pisgah on a wet day.
    Those things will destroy our trails!
    I do agree that the bike in that video shouldnt be allowed on non-motorized trails but those arent bicycles any more because they can ride without pedalling and with 4.5kW they are a lot more powerfull then the 0.25kW assisted ebikes.

  50. #50
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    Electric Mountain Bikes in WNC ?

    Do ebikes not have motors?

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    So you won't be making your 3,008th post?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatTireGoose View Post
    Bicycles and mtnbiking have always been about the simplicity of the machine and the challenge to your fitness level.
    IKR!!! Then they added gears to those damn things making it easier to climb hills when real mountain bikers have to get their ass off the seat, stand and mash the pedals.

    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by park baker View Post
    So you won't be making your 3,008th post?
    Says the dork who once whined because "Woody didn't wave back at me!" Please, give it a rest. Or perhaps you'd like to explain why it is that you've come out in support of ebikes being allowed on NF single track?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    IKR!!! Then they added gears to those damn things making it easier to climb hills when real mountain bikers have to get their ass off the seat, stand and mash the pedals.

    Yah, but it's still a bike. You know, like, no motor and stuff.

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    You guys are funny. If these mopeds get classified as mountain bikes, we'll all be looking for trails to ride in the not-so-distant future. Any type of boost will increase trail erosion, as wheels will slip more on loose, damp climbs. Those advocating for ebikes on forest trails have something to gain from them. If you need a motor to ride a trail, the trail isn't the right place for you. Ride the Parkway or stay on the gravel. Why would you even want/need a trail? In my opinion, the reasons to ride a trail are for the challenge of the ride. If I want nature or peace, I'll hike. If I go blind, I won't be demanding a driver's license.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by park baker View Post
    I think we should ban 29ers from the trails. They allow less experienced people to go faster, easier.
    Haha, touche!
    Pisgah Forest NC

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    This madness will happen if you let it

    <iframe src='http://www.vitalmtb.com/v/26064?width=480&height=270' width='600' height='338' frameborder='0'></iframe><p><a href='http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Eddy-e-duro,26064/Steel-City-Media,14510'>Vital Exclusive: Eddie Masters, E-Duro RAW</a> - More <a href='http://www.vitalmtb.com'>Mountain Bike</a> <a href='http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/main'>Videos</a></p>

  58. #58
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    Sweet, world domination will come from those who have a motor.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Here, dispense with the motor and give 'em a jetpack. Everyone's happy!

    With this thing strapped on, even you could run a 4-minute mile - CNET

    Heck, forget the expense of a bike, just run the trails.

  60. #60
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    Having been born and raised in WNC, this whole thing reminds me a lot of how most of the trails and roads that used to be open to motorcyclists got taken away. I've ridden motorcycles for over 30 years, and was one of the first to ***** when the forest service started requiring motorcycles to be tagged, insured and road legal in order to ride on any forest service roads. Wasn't long after that, they simply started gating those roads and you weren't allowed on them at all. As I grew older, though I don't completely agree with it, I understand why it came to be. A gate is much cheaper than the man hours it would take to police even one trail / road to ensure that idiots aren't going off and making new trails, hillclimbs, etc in the middle of the park / natl forest / etc.

    I see the e bike thing as much the same, just in it's infancy at the moment. If you want to allow those with disabilities to ride an e assisted bike that still has to be pedaled, far be it from me to tell them they can't. Hell, I may be that person one day, you never know. But the problem I see is who will police this? Are they going to have rangers on every trail, all the time to ensure there aren't those out there ripping our single track to shreds on 50mph e motorcycles that require no pedaling at all? I seriously doubt it. Not to mention combining the two (e bikes vs human powered) on tight trails is a recipe for some really nast accidents IMO.

    Another thing I'll mention, having been involved in RC vehicles for over 20 years is how easy it would be to take a pedal assist bike and modify it to be a trail shredding monster. New motor, speed control and batteries is all it takes, and And I'm sure there will be hop up kits for them in the future no different than RC products. Who's going to ensure this isn't happening if say we were to allow pedal assist only bikes? Are they going to have a tech inspection at every trail head to ensure the bike is stock? I doubt it.

    For those reasons, my opinion is that if it has a powered (gas, electric, etc) motor , then it is a motorized vehicle and belongs on trails designated for such use.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    For those reasons, my opinion is that if it has a powered (gas, electric, jetpack etc) motor , then it is a motorized vehicle and belongs on trails designated for such use.
    Fixed.

    Oh, and completely agree.
    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

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