Daniel's Ridge - Bridge side, drop removed- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Daniel's Ridge - Bridge side, drop removed

    I rode the bridge side of Daniel's this weekend and the drop that's just after you cross the fire road, the one after the roto tunnel about halfway down, has been completely removed and is now two massive rollers. Appears to have been done by machinery based on the tracks.

    Anyone know who did this and why? That feature was one of the things I liked using to intro people to riding in Pisgah and it seems odd to have removed it, especially considering the amount of work required in getting equipment up there just for that (no other work appears to have been done that I can tell).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    I rode the bridge side of Daniel's this weekend and the drop that's just after you cross the fire road, the one after the roto tunnel about halfway down, has been completely removed and is now two massive rollers. Appears to have been done by machinery based on the tracks.

    Anyone know who did this and why? That feature was one of the things I liked using to intro people to riding in Pisgah and it seems odd to have removed it, especially considering the amount of work required in getting equipment up there just for that (no other work appears to have been done that I can tell).
    I rode it a few weeks ago, and it was gone. Looked like it was washed out. I didn’t see any signs of machines.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I rode it a few weeks ago, and it was gone. Looked like it was washed out. I didn’t see any signs of machines.
    Maybe they went back and did work on it after it was washed out? There is no way what I saw yesterday happened naturally and I'm pretty sure we saw tracks from equipment, which would mean it was changed recently.

    I haven't been up there since September. I don't recall any of the CP or Swank participants telling me it had changed during the event, so it must have happened this month.

  4. #4
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    Bridge side? You mean the side that's not rocky? I don't remember there being a drop there. There was a sweet gulley though. Pisgah is getting worked over at a high rate... Kitsuma, Squirrel, now Daniels. Anyone know the schedule of events?

  5. #5
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    I went to the PAS meeting recently and it sounded like there's a lot of contracted pro work going on related to some RTP grants. Sounds like most of it on the current grant has been to fix eroded stuff, and sounds like the extremely heavy rain fairly recently (I think the record-breaking rain was around a month ago, right?) did a real number on some trails.

    I do recall there being some new trail on another grant that will be coming up some time after the current one has been completed. IIRC, there were 3 or 4 grants in total with approved projects, and the pace of the work just depends on PAS's ability to cashflow the grants.

    I don't remember seeing much of a schedule for the work, since it's contracted with a pro.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I don't remember seeing much of a schedule for the work, since it's contracted with a pro.
    Do we know who is doing the work, out of curiosity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    Bridge side? You mean the side that's not rocky? I don't remember there being a drop there. There was a sweet gulley though.
    Correct. There was a little drop there that dropped you into the gully. It wasn't huge, but it seemed to shapeshift pretty regularly and was pretty good for folks practicing drops on natural features on the trail since the gully protected you on either side.

  7. #7
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Do we know who is doing the work, out of curiosity?
    I don't. I am horrible with names, and since all of them were new to me, I don't remember a single one. I am sure the club knows.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Do we know who is doing the work, out of curiosity?



    Correct. There was a little drop there that dropped you into the gully. It wasn't huge, but it seemed to shapeshift pretty regularly and was pretty good for folks practicing drops on natural features on the trail since the gully protected you on either side.
    Yes. Shrimper. If you know who that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy G. Parrish View Post
    Yes. Shrimper. If you know who that is.

    Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
    Ah, I thought that might be the case. It aligned with the type of work on upper black.

    It was well done, I can see it making that side of Daniel's more sustainable and it made the climb going that way a lot more feasible without stepping off. I was just bummed to see it gone.

  10. #10
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    That drop had to potential to seriously hurt somebody who came through too fast and was not expecting it. IMHO, I'm glad it is gone.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike View Post
    That drop had to potential to seriously hurt somebody who came through too fast and was not expecting it. IMHO, I'm glad it is gone.
    Not to be snarky but that could be said about pretty much everything in Mountain biking... Are we going to take Dynamite to the rock moves on Bennet? They could definitely hurt someone. Who goes balls out, riding blind, down a trail they dont know? Taming the trails doesn't make them safer.

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  12. #12
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    Using that logic, no maintenance would ever get done to any trail. I like some technical challenges, but that was basically a big hole in the middle of the trail that needed to be fixed.
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    I guess I understand why it was removed, the rut after the drop in was very awkward and if you went down the middle, you could end up in a bad position because it was pedal deep and had enough of a chance to stop you in your tracks if you didn't stop to look at it and pick a line. It doesn't help that it changes often and I'm sure the outer lines became more difficult as time went on.

    From what I recall, though, it's always been on/off like that. The first time I rode it, there was a big rut down the middle that washed open after a few months, then it formed again. It just seemed to be the nature of the trail and it has been that way since I rode that side the first time several years ago. It was rideable, you just had to go to either side of the rut. I guess I could see someone flying into it and not reacting quick enough, but there are so many places in this area where that can happen, I'd hate for that to be justification for doing this type of work everywhere.

    I don't mind trail maintenance that improves the trail, but I think I agree with Banjo on this one. This is very clearly a stop and look before hitting it feature and it made riding that side of Daniel's a bit more interesting.

    Maybe someone can get out and make the upper part of Trace rideable again without having to pick through ruts and holes. I'd love to see some work done there, because it took a beating this summer and is less of a technical challenge and more of one that just makes it annoying to ride.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Maybe someone can get out and make the upper part of Trace rideable again without having to pick through ruts and holes. I'd love to see some work done there, because it took a beating this summer and is less of a technical challenge and more of one that just makes it annoying to ride.


    Seriously love Trace right now. Been riding it 3-4 times a month and it is so fun. Just leave it plz. Plenty of other trails around and Trace isn't dropping sed into any stream...ahhhhhhh love Trace. Just Sunday me and a buddy were SUPER HIGH FIVING™ after ripping down Trace relishing in how much we love that trail. So good.

  15. #15
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    Haha!

    Yeah Trace is a blast right now... Just cant go slow down it or it will beat ya up.

    Let off the brakes and send'r

    And you cant TM "Super High Fiving"... pretty sure thats Public Domain shit.
    On your left!

  16. #16
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    Keep in mind that the trails in PNF weren't necessarily created to be a playground for technically proficient mountain bikers. Many of these trails have been there since the 30's. I know that erosion and trail damage occurs even without bikes, but bikes certainly accelerate the process. I would love to have a time machine and see what some of these trails looked like before mountain biking came along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    Haha!

    Yeah Trace is a blast right now... Just cant go slow down it or it will beat ya up.
    Agreed!!

    Aside from the 3' log drop near the top, Trace is rolling Easy/Intermediate right now. Thank you Sycamore leaves!!! The tread is fully covered...blind riding at its best for Fall conditions. The only problem I have is the duration. Just a little too short to only hit Trace after spending 40 minutes climbing up Wash/Spencer. Solution -> Lap It. Do a lap around Wash/Spencer/Fletcher, then do Wash/Trace. Best November riding day I've had so far and Thanksgiving isn't for 3 more days!

    Pretty much perfect right now. And bring your dogs

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Seriously love Trace right now. Been riding it 3-4 times a month and it is so fun. Just leave it plz. Plenty of other trails around and Trace isn't dropping sed into any stream...ahhhhhhh love Trace. Just Sunday me and a buddy were SUPER HIGH FIVING™ after ripping down Trace relishing in how much we love that trail. So good.
    I was pretty much only thinking of the section at the top, after those 2 or 3 root drops, that got really washed out in the middle and has to be ridden around because of the holes. Or had to, anyway.

    Maybe it's opened back up and the holes washed out enough to be rideable, I haven't been back there in a few weeks and when we rode it last (Sept maybe?), I felt like you had to pick through them or ride along the side rather than straight through. Seems to change frequently though, I remember going up there and being able to blast through no problem, then 2 weeks later going and having to handle it completely differently after all the rain. Judging by where the tires/lines were, I wasn't the only one.

    The rest has always been awesome. Sounds like I need to go back up there this week and ride it again

  19. #19
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    I would like to congratulate everyone posting here on keeping it civil. We might be growing up after all.

    The working being done is part of a PAS grant and the work was done by Shrimper and his team of skilled craftsmen. He was asked to just put in drainage. He was not asked to dumb anything down, and that was never his intention. If folks want additional work done then PAS can schedule a workday to finesse it and add more rocks to the trail.

    The jump mentioned prob wasn't taken down due to it being a jump. It prob had to do more with correcting the drainage. But jumps in blind corners lead to knee jerk reactions by land managers, especially when someone launches into a hiker.



    The bridges are also going to be reworked in the near future. But this work will be headed up by the Pisgah Cowboys.

    Pisgah needs more volunteers working the trails, we really need more trail crew leaders. There are a multitude of groups to sign up with. You have to register to volunteer. The good side of this is that if you get hurt volunteering you will have workman's comp.

    The BCHA has requested that Trace Ridge get reworked. But the USFS has other priorities at the moment. It might be good to have someone from this forum organize a work day or two. This would help keep it in the character of the group that does the work.

    We need more bikers doing more work in Pisgah if we want additional trails and connectivity.
    Should you do more trail work?

  20. #20
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    If we volunteer how much can we, as Mtn bikers, steer the work? A few workdays I went to were more taking orders and not really doing tings that, IMO, make the trail more fun for us. Drainage is SUPER important but jumps, drops and rocks make trails fun.

    I'd love to volunteer more but it sorta sucks when you can't add technical features, etc.

    Has that changed?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    If we volunteer how much can we, as Mtn bikers, steer the work? A few workdays I went to were more taking orders and not really doing tings that, IMO, make the trail more fun for us. Drainage is SUPER important but jumps, drops and rocks make trails fun.

    I'd love to volunteer more but it sorta sucks when you can't add technical features, etc.

    Has that changed?
    My experience volunteering has been quite the opposite. Whomever does the work is the one that influences the out come. But you do have to play by the rules of the land managers. In Pisgah that means staying in the corridor, having good lines of sight, having alternative ride arounds, and using natural materials. The final result also has to be stable and not thrown together. Meaning it should be solid and built to last.


    I should also note that drainage comes first as it is THE priority, but after it drains, well then, have at it.
    Should you do more trail work?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bfluid View Post
    My experience volunteering has been quite the opposite. Whomever does the work is the one that influences the out come. But you do have to play by the rules of the land managers. In Pisgah that means staying in the corridor, having good lines of sight, having alternative ride arounds, and using natural materials. The final result also has to be stable and not thrown together. Meaning it should be solid and built to last.


    I should also note that drainage comes first as it is THE priority, but after it drains, well then, have at it.
    2b- when did the alternative ride-arounds rule start? I thought that as long as the obstacle met the measureable standards for the trail corridor designation, a ride around was not necessarily mandatory. But, I haven't been doing Pisgah trail work for a while, so just curious. And, does it just apply to newly built features or when doing work around natural or legacy features- like say the rock gardens on Pilot- is there going to be an emphasis on ride-arounds?

    I get putting ride-arounds in on new features, but I'd hate to see them added where they haven't been before.

  23. #23
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    Ride arounds will occur by people who won't ride the gnar for what ever reason. Look at Lower Black, the uphill riders and hikers created hundreds of them. If we include them they will more than likely be a better option than them happening on the fly.

    Technically you do not need ride around if it meets the standards, but it may be wise to do so anyway. It just depends on the situation and scale. Farlow should not be treated the same as Cove Creek even if they are classified the same, IMHO.
    Should you do more trail work?

  24. #24
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    Mike it also depends on the scale of the obstacles. I, personally, don't really count rocks in the tread as obstacles, just character.
    Should you do more trail work?

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    Rode good ol' Daniels left today and it sure does have a different character. Not worse not better... different.

    The work was well done though 👌

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    I rode it that direction today as well. It's different, but yet the same, (or will be), if that makes any sense. That trail (Longbranch?) to Picklesimer Fields even has a little bite to it now-a-dazes.

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