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  1. #1
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    2018 Pisgah Enduro questions

    I'm taking part in the 2018 Pisgah enduro this weekend and have a few questions for folk that have done the event before so I can plan logistics as this is my first event of this type.

    Of the three stages, Rattlesnake, Kitsuma and Heartbreak, I've only ridden Kitsuma before so I'll be riding 2 stages blind. I tried riding Rattlesnake once before and got turned away at the gate.

    1. Is there generally a lot of waiting around at the top of the stages or do they send you down as you get to the top - after a little rest period?
    2. How long should I expect a leisurely ride/walk up heartbreak to take? They have a 12pm cut off so wondered how early I should plan on leaving? It looks like a good 7-8 miles of pavement just to Star Gap but how much time is the hike-a-bike / ride from there to the top of heartbreak likely to take? I know a lot will depend on fitness but a general idea is enough.
    3. Did they have water and at the end of any of the stages? I've e-mailed the organizers but have not had a reply yet.
    4. Any pointers / advice you can pass on to a enduro first timer?


    Hopefully I'll meet some fellow members there.
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  2. #2
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    1. Not sure. It may be seeded. You dont run until the rider before you clears/finishes that stage.

    2. Not sure. Never been to those trails.

    3. They should.

    4. Heres some advice. Start a Racers Diet. My MX friends suggest alot of complex carbs. I started mine today. Grilled Chicken, Fish, Noodles, Pasta, Baked Potato or Baked Sweet Potato are good options. Also get some endurance drink mix from Magic Cycles or your local bike store. Or this...as an MX friend suggested. https://dripdrop.com/

    I am also going to Pisgah. Just trying to find a driver. Willing to pay 50 to meet me and load the bike up and head out. Also, try to preride the stages if you can. I know a Junior Expert thats a friend of mine and he is preriding the stages today. If you cant train on the actual stages, train on the hardest trails you feel comfortable with riding at your ability/skill level.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    I'm taking part in the 2018 Pisgah enduro this weekend and have a few questions for folk that have done the event before so I can plan logistics as this is my first event of this type.

    Of the three stages, Rattlesnake, Kitsuma and Heartbreak, I've only ridden Kitsuma before so I'll be riding 2 stages blind. I tried riding Rattlesnake once before and got turned away at the gate.

    1. Is there generally a lot of waiting around at the top of the stages or do they send you down as you get to the top - after a little rest period?
    2. How long should I expect a leisurely ride/walk up heartbreak to take? They have a 12pm cut off so wondered how early I should plan on leaving? It looks like a good 7-8 miles of pavement just to Star Gap but how much time is the hike-a-bike / ride from there to the top of heartbreak likely to take? I know a lot will depend on fitness but a general idea is enough.
    3. Did they have water and at the end of any of the stages? I've e-mailed the organizers but have not had a reply yet.
    4. Any pointers / advice you can pass on to a enduro first timer?


    Hopefully I'll meet some fellow members there.
    They typically give plenty of time between riders at the start of each stage so yes there is some waiting around. I suggest starting early early and get to the stages first for that good dirt. A good 30sec to 1min should be enough of a gap on all stages except maybe heartbreak... unlesss youíre really fast and the rider ahead is really slow. I passed a few riders on HB last time.

    Plan on a few hours to get up Heartbreak at minimum. Donít underestimate how long it will take. If youíre not super fit or if youíre conserving energy, start at like 8am so youíre safe.

    No water on course. Itís a self supported race. Thereís places to filter water like creeks, etc which is what I did so I wasnít carrying a huge pack.


    Advice... fitness is key. Most stages are won/lost on the flat sprint sections so pedal your ass off on those. Keep it tight and rubber side down too. Save energy for the stages... donít crush the climbs that arenít timed. Start early early. If itís wet the first riders down will get the best trail conditions. Take a jacket for the Heartbreak day. You may be waiting a while up top and itís high up so itís much cooler than at camp.

    Have Fun!!

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    Suggestion for bike setup- Consider running an insert in your rear tire. The top of Heartbreak has some pretty large loose rocks that could turn a good day into a bad day pretty quickly. A suspension setup that is soft off the top with plenty of mid and end stroke support will help with fatigue, especially later in the days when you are tired. Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragracer88 View Post
    I am also going to Pisgah. Just trying to find a driver. Willing to pay 50 to meet me and load the bike up and head out. Also, try to preride the stages if you can. I know a Junior Expert thats a friend of mine and he is preriding the stages today. If you cant train on the actual stages, train on the hardest trails you feel comfortable with riding at your ability/skill level.
    I was hoping to preride HB and have another attempt at getting into Rattlesnake last weekend but the trail status in the forum said to stay off the trails so I didn't come up.

    I'm coming up from Charlotte and only have a single bike rack so can't help with a lift sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar_Brad View Post
    Suggestion for bike setup- Consider running an insert in your rear tire. The top of Heartbreak has some pretty large loose rocks that could turn a good day into a bad day pretty quickly. A suspension setup that is soft off the top with plenty of mid and end stroke support will help with fatigue, especially later in the days when you are tired. Good luck!
    Thanks. I wondered about suspension set up. I run mine pretty supple but usually dial in a little more ramp up (MRP Ribbon fork) and LSC when riding in Pisgah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    They typically give plenty of time between riders at the start of each stage so yes there is some waiting around. I suggest starting early early and get to the stages first for that good dirt. A good 30sec to 1min should be enough of a gap on all stages except maybe heartbreak... unlesss youíre really fast and the rider ahead is really slow. I passed a few riders on HB last time.

    Plan on a few hours to get up Heartbreak at minimum. Donít underestimate how long it will take. If youíre not super fit or if youíre conserving energy, start at like 8am so youíre safe.

    No water on course. Itís a self supported race. Thereís places to filter water like creeks, etc which is what I did so I wasnít carrying a huge pack.


    Advice... fitness is key. Most stages are won/lost on the flat sprint sections so pedal your ass off on those. Keep it tight and rubber side down too. Save energy for the stages... donít crush the climbs that arenít timed. Start early early. If itís wet the first riders down will get the best trail conditions. Take a jacket for the Heartbreak day. You may be waiting a while up top and itís high up so itís much cooler than at camp.

    Have Fun!!
    Thanks Banjopickin. That's useful info. I was thinking of leaving for HB around 8am so it's good that you said the same.

    I'm coming up from Charlotte so will definitely be in energy conservation mode, especially since we've had a lot of trail closures due to the recent prolonged rain so haven't had as much riding time to prepare as I'd like.

    Carrying sufficient water for the day is my main concern. I'd rather not have to lug 3 liters up the mountain so your filtering idea sounds like a good way to go. What filter do you use and how long would it take to fill a 1 liter bottle/bladder?
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  6. #6
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    I'm certainly not the organizer, but I have been the volunteer at the Rattlesnake start every year and will be there again.

    1. You may be waiting for quite a while at the top of Rattlesnake day 1 or Heartbreak day 2. On day 1, if you don't want to wait, either hustle up the hill or take your time. There's a one minute interval between riders and if you get there in the middle of the pack and there's 60 people in front of you...you do the math. On heartbreak it really doesn't matter as all riders have to clear the climb before folks start flying down, so you're probably going to wait a while no matter what.

    2. 2-3 hours to climb Heartbreak. Also, the first climb on day 1 is a kick in the privates- don't underestimate it.

    3. yeah, bring your own water. I have no idea if Eric is making plans for extra water on course with the summer heat and all that, but aide stations are not guaranteed as in 111, 55, or monstercross.

    If you're going to buy a filter a Sawyer is 1000% the way to go. 5-10 minutes to filter one liter of water including prep and packing up. Beats the snot out of the giant Katadyn I still carry when I need a filter because I own it already and it works. 3 liters of water should prolly be enough, although you might be out by the time you get back to camp day 1.

    4. On day 1, you're going to be moving all day long after the start. It's a big ride, not just some descending. Remember that and bring a good attitude. Camp Grier is a really awesome race start/finish venue, best around. Pool, lake, camping, picnic area, food etc etc etc. To get maximum enjoyment out of the weekend, camp on site and remember that for most of the people participating it's more about the fun and less about the speed.

    Every year except last (I think), somebody gets hurt on the first Rattlesnake descent. Know your limits and don't take the corners too fast.

    I keep editing this reply...the Heartbreak descent actually starts from the large field where the trail comes up from the parkway. The loose rocky chunder from the trailers, Brad, is not part of actual Heartbreak trail- it's just there.

    See you Saturday!

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    Thanks Mike. Some great insight. I'm waiting on Eric to reply and confirm the water situation.

    I have no elevation profiles for the liaison stages but looking at the contours for the Rattlesnake climb it looks like it's the first part on the pavement that is really steep.

    I'm definitely in it for the fun and not to win or compete and will be riding well within my abilities as it's all blind apart from Kitsuma.

    See you Saturday and thanks for volunteering.
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  8. #8
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    I would definitely go buy a Sawyer squeeze filter... They are awesome to have in general. I keep one in my truck for emergencies and a second one in my ride kit.

    The only place I can think of that has Potable water on course is the Old Fort Picnic Area at the bottom of Kitsuma. There is a water fountain but I wouldn't count on it. Its often turned off. There may be a hose bib at the bottom of Rattlesnake at the little snack hut there but I wouldn't count on it either. There are plenty of creek crossings to filter from...

    The climb up to Rattlesnake is a bear so don't under estimate it. Rattlesnake trail is wide open with very little technical. Its more of a dirt road than trail. Its steep and fast and really easy to get going too fast so mind the corners.

    Star Gap is a fun section... really tight and quite a few switchbacks. Lots of folks have never ridden it so you may be on equal terms there.

    The gravel section on Jarrett Creek is just gravel. Haul ass and my pro tip is to pedal through the corners. Keep power to the back wheel and you can rail those loose gravel corners.

    Heartbreak is what it is... long, technical, rocky and rooty, narrow bench cut. elbows out and keep it on the trail. Mind the gnarly rock move at the very end... and prepare for a rowdy group of hecklers. Thats the best place to spectate FYI.

    Kitsuma is the scariest section out of all the sections IMO. Its not technical but its very fast with plenty of line of sight so you can get going really fast. The speeds you can reach on narrow singletrack are frightening and some of the worst crashes I have ever seen were on that trail.
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    Is this the Sawyer filter?

    It makes me feel a little easier knowing that you feel Kitsuma is the scariest section. I know what you mean about the speed. The rate at which the bike picks up speed when you let go the brakes is scary. My brakes take some punishment down Kitsuma.

    As for the climbs I'm just going to suck it up and grind / walk up at what ever pace that works out to be lol.

    I'm apprehensively looking forward to the weekend. Hopefully we're not going to get caught in any rain storms because that will make it a completely different game.
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  10. #10
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    Stage 1, 2 and 4 on Day 1 are the stages Ill have most fun on. Switchbacks arent my fave. They force me to brake more than I want to. (Judging from the switchbacks Ive rode just before getting to beech mtn resort.) Definitely going to cut loose on Kitsuma, Jarett Creek and Rattlesnake. Star Gap will likely be my slowest stage.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Is this the Sawyer filter?

    It makes me feel a little easier knowing that you feel Kitsuma is the scariest section. I know what you mean about the speed. The rate at which the bike picks up speed when you let go the brakes is scary. My brakes take some punishment down Kitsuma.

    As for the climbs I'm just going to suck it up and grind / walk up at what ever pace that works out to be lol.

    I'm apprehensively looking forward to the weekend. Hopefully we're not going to get caught in any rain storms because that will make it a completely different game.
    Check out the MSR TrailShot filter also. It was made for refilling bladders and bottles, or drinking directly from a water source. Higher flow rate than the Sawyers.

    Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
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    They key to carrying speed through switchbacks is to hit the gas when you're coming out of them. Basically, as your front wheel straightens out, accelerate accelerate accelerate and your back wheel will follow.

    Also remember that it much much harder to turn while applying the front brake. Scrub speed before the switchback and try to use mostly rear brake as you turn (or at least that's what works for me, I know others are different).

    You may already do all this, or have your own system that works, but my .02. Have fun!

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    I like just leaning radically on switchbacks...but it's not always safe to do so on roads, since it brings me in the inside and into the other lane.

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    Just a quick update on the race. Thanks for all the suggestions they helped.

    It was a great time on the bike although pretty hard. Those climbs are killers for someone living in relatively flat Charlotte and little chance of training for those climbs.

    Riding each stage in isolation would not be a problem but the accumulation of 3 big climbs in one day did hurt and I ended up with pretty bad cramping by the time I got to the top of Star Gap. I knew then that day 2 would not be possible and it would be better to call it a day after day 1, live another day and try again next year than force it and have a potential disaster due to fatigue.

    i had way too much gear on me and the weight didn't help on the climbs and hike a bike. Next year I'll be far more efficient with my gear and how I carry it. It's all going on the bike. I learned a lot from what other more experienced riders did.

    Some random thoughts.
    1. It was my first time at an event like this so didn't know what to expect in terms of how it was going to be. The volunteers at the stages were great and enthusiastic.
    2. There was water and some food (PB&J sandwiches, bananas and orange segments) at the bottom of stage 2 at the Old Fort picnic area. I wish i had known before. I did email the organizers and asked but never got a reply.
    3. Stage 4, the Jarred Creek stretch was a bit of a pointless 150 yard sprint due to a massive landslide taking out the trail. I'm not sure why they didn't just move the whole stage further up the track.
    4. No swag. No t-shirt, stickers or anything as a souvenir which I though was a shame.


    All in all a great day. There are some bl**dy fast and strong riders out there.
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  15. #15
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    I disagree with Jarett Creek. It was fun. I don't mind a short drag race. It doesn't need to be a mile long to be competitive. And it was actually 4 stages in day 1. Not 3 Trail blazer. Rattlesnake, Kitsuma, Star Gap and Jaretts Creek,

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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Riding each stage in isolation would not be a problem but the accumulation of 3 big climbs in one day did hurt and I ended up with pretty bad cramping by the time I got to the top of Star Gap.
    Everyone is a little different on this, but I had a convo with a few endurance riders to get their advice on nutrition throughout long rides and it helped me a lot when doing any sort of long ride of this nature in WNC.

    Your needs will be different because you are you and everyone has something that works better for them, but also racing enduro has different needs because you aren't pedaling the entire time, there is downtime, your timed segments are different, etc vs endurance rides that you keep moving the majority of the time. The overall theme of their advice was to eat with consistency and with a plan to avoid bonking, cramping, hunger, etc, the actual practical means of getting what you need differed (gels, tailwind, etc).

    I only mention it because I know a few folks that race enduros with some consistency and don't manage this well, often having the same results you do. I feel like some people can get away with that, while others can't. My observation being that endurance riders have a more consistent plan on how do manage this whereas enduro folks seem to be a lot more hit or miss, likely to wing it.

    We all respond differently, too. Personally, I don't really have a cramping issue, but when I start getting hungry, it's like my whole body goes into shutdown over 5 minutes and coming back is really challenging. I have to really stay on top of it or my day can end real quick.

    Since I'm giving unsolicited advice, I'll tell you about the time I screwed this up and you can laugh at me. I was doing my first long-ish (>30m) ride in Pisgah and figured protein bars were the way to go. I ended up downing 7 protein bars in 6 hours, along with a handful of other solids, some of which I stole from my kid's food pack while I found them hiking (baby food, crackers, nuts, etc). I had to go to the doctor and get a prescription to clear up the remnants of that the following week and having eaten Papas and Beer the day before said dr visit resulted in probably one of the most painful episodes I've ever experienced in my life.

    So yea, easy on the protein bars.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    All in all a great day. There are some bl**dy fast and strong riders out there.
    Sure enough... Helps to ride up here alot when you're trying to race here. There are a few places in/around Charlotte that can help but nothing beats riding Pisgah often. Everything here is harder...

    I remember being so intimidated by the trails here at first, but after a few trips to get my feet under me it got better, and waaaay more fun! Its still challenging but not intimidating.

    Funny thing about bikes... "It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster..." -G. Lemond
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Stage 4, the Jarred Creek stretch was a bit of a pointless 150 yard sprint due to a massive landslide taking out the trail. I'm not sure why they didn't just move the whole stage further up the track.

    Not my place to say exactly why here, but they did actually have a reason.
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    I wouldve liked a more "legit" stage as opposed to the Jarret Creek bit... however, given the overall nature of the race I found it awesome and appropriate. I wouldnt have changed much about the event.. Eric and all the volunteers did an excellent job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky View Post
    Not my place to say exactly why here, but they did actually have a reason.

    Yes I'm sure they have a valid reason. It just seemed that after a long transition from stage 3 to Jarred for a short sprint race then a 7 mile ride back to camp felt a little bit of an anticlimax.

    That land slide on Jarred Creek road is something. That's going to take some to repair if it ever it does get repaired.
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  21. #21
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    I liked the gravel section in years past...

    Cranking it at 11 going down loose gravel is SKETCHY in the best way. And if you're ballsy enough to hang it out (pun intended) you can really make up time on the overall.

    I wish there were a couple more trails out that way.

    Still an awesome race, awesome venue, and awesome people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Everyone is a little different on this, but I had a convo with a few endurance riders to get their advice on nutrition throughout long rides and it helped me a lot when doing any sort of long ride of this nature in WNC.
    <snip>
    True, although I'm usually pretty good at managing my energy and eating sufficiently on long rides. I was tired but didn't bonk. Cramps were holding me back not lack of energy. I suspect my leg cramps came from not being fully hydrated the day before and so starting with a deficit even though I drank plenty during the ride and increased the dose of electrolytes in my water. I try eat real food on longer rides as there are only so many bars I can take before they become sickly.

    I'm going to have to figure it out for next time though.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    I liked the gravel section in years past...

    Cranking it at 11 going down loose gravel is SKETCHY in the best way. And if you're ballsy enough to hang it out (pun intended) you can really make up time on the overall.

    I wish there were a couple more trails out that way.

    Still an awesome race, awesome venue, and awesome people.
    Agreed. That stretch of long downhill on Jarred Creek before we got to the sprint section was awesome. Really loose with plenty of opportunity for two wheel drift. That's why I was a little surprised they didn't use it as part of the stage.

    I'm definitely going to do it again and hope this time that I get to ride day two and HB. That is one monster climb to the top of HB though.
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  24. #24
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    It rained on us at the top of HB just after the top 10 from day 1 were leaving. Made for some super sketch moments in the rocks at the top. Good times. Loved the entire race as it was my first time riding any of the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Just a quick update on the race. Thanks for all the suggestions they helped.

    It was a great time on the bike although pretty hard. Those climbs are killers for someone living in relatively flat Charlotte and little chance of training for those climbs.

    Riding each stage in isolation would not be a problem but the accumulation of 3 big climbs in one day did hurt and I ended up with pretty bad cramping by the time I got to the top of Star Gap. I knew then that day 2 would not be possible and it would be better to call it a day after day 1, live another day and try again next year than force it and have a potential disaster due to fatigue.

    i had way too much gear on me and the weight didn't help on the climbs and hike a bike. Next year I'll be far more efficient with my gear and how I carry it. It's all going on the bike. I learned a lot from what other more experienced riders did.

    Some random thoughts.
    1. It was my first time at an event like this so didn't know what to expect in terms of how it was going to be. The volunteers at the stages were great and enthusiastic.
    2. There was water and some food (PB&J sandwiches, bananas and orange segments) at the bottom of stage 2 at the Old Fort picnic area. I wish i had known before. I did email the organizers and asked but never got a reply.
    3. Stage 4, the Jarred Creek stretch was a bit of a pointless 150 yard sprint due to a massive landslide taking out the trail. I'm not sure why they didn't just move the whole stage further up the track.
    4. No swag. No t-shirt, stickers or anything as a souvenir which I though was a shame.


    All in all a great day. There are some bl**dy fast and strong riders out there.
    All sorts of fun answers here. I'll go backwards. If you stayed for the awards to support your fellow riders as you should every event, then you would know everyone received a ton of SWAG. But of course you would have had to stay to cheer on your fellow riders to see this part. I didn't race this year at all, and left with 2 shirts, a jacket, a tire, and enough stickers to repair the seats in my explorer twice. There was literally a giant pile of swag placed out for everyone to grab what they need.

    You can't just move a stage. It's permitted by the NFS way in advance. Months. Moving one component simply isn't possible with the same folks busy trying to plan a 92million dollar parade for your dictator in DC.

    Since those aid stations are put in place by volunteers, there is no way to know in advance what they will have, and then there is the fact that in the mountains you can sometimes lose all ability to have a station at all. SO as it said, self-supported.

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