Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 194 of 194
  1. #1
    Moosehead
    Reputation: moosehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,906

    Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale


  2. #2
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,551
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.:nono:

    Ebikes are not bicycles :nono:

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    33

  4. #4
    > /dev/null 2&>1
    Reputation: Procter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,823
    Sad to see but I think some level of consolidation is a good thing.

    There are so many bike companies all doing low-run production for a relatively small market, all copying each other's technology without a ton of innovation.

    This has the effect of many firms duplicating essentially the same R&D cost many times over, which in turn raises prices because that's baked into every bike, and, I think, probably hindering innovation in frames.

    Consider:
    - Frame innovation
    - Many players
    - Most bikes very similar in terms of materials, travel, suspension behavior and geometry
    - Low run, so R&D costs hard to recoup
    - Largest innovation in the last few years was 27.5, which was frankly sort of obvious

    vs.

    - Drivetrain innovation:
    - Two main players
    - High run (since these two players are used on most bikes)
    - More significant innovation: Clutch derailleurs, 1x11, 1x12

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    12

    Mountain Biking is a tough biz

    Not as easy as you think.

    Pinkbike went to Taiwan to start a bike company, check this out:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfgTXFx4Ins&t=305s



    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TMWTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    168
    Filing for bankruptcy, screwing over your debtors so you can sell the company debt-free. Douche move.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    Filing for bankruptcy, screwing over your debtors so you can sell the company debt-free. Douche move.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Will most likely screw current Niner owners too.
    The new company will probably rename the brand (it's not like small distributors will ever do business with Niner again after getting pennies on the dollar for their debt!).

    Current Niner owners will be left high and dry with any warranty issue to come as Niner as an independent company will cease to exist.

    Not a lot of winners here...looks like Chis Sugui walks away a millionaire and a private equity firm gets to buy a debt free company for cheap....distrbuters, customers, dealers, and probably current Niner employees all are the losers here.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    362
    Dang, this does sound like a scam!!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    611
    Very few companies are really in existence to take care of their employees, suppliers, and vendors. Even less are in existence to take care of their customers. I don't know much about Niner except of the recent threads about their warranty dodging. I hope some good comes from all of this, but if it does it has to be "big picture".

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    34
    This bankruptcy is a bummer. I have been working on a masters degree for the past few years, was planning on a Niner RKT in about a month when I am done, now I'm wondering how future warranty would be handled, do I need to wait a year till they emerge as a new company again?

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Stopbreakindown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    874
    RIP Niner : poursoneout

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    Filing for bankruptcy, screwing over your debtors so you can sell the company debt-free. Douche move.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    This was my response to this news. Bankruptcy does encourage innovation and entrepreneurship but this seems like abuse. Also, in my opinion Niner sells unremarkable, overpriced bikes with famously (infamously) creaky bottom brackets. I never understood the appeal.

  13. #13
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    Meh, I've had three.5 frames from niner, never had a BB issue (2 steel - MCR, 1.5 carbon - RIP9RDO).

    I've also received what I would call at *least* appropriate / adequate post purchase support - two separate events. The first time was effectively crash replacement frameset (MCR) at low cost even though I was 3rd-hand owner of the failed frame. The second time was a no-cost front triangle replacement. In both cases things were handled in a very reasonable time.

    I don't dispute there's also bad post purchase support out there, but I can find that for pretty much any brand. There's always someone with butthurt on the internet.

    I also think it's a drag they're having these financial issues. If I'd known that in Aug '17 when I bought my current bike (RIP9RDO) I may not have, but I still may. It would have been part of the decision making process to be sure. Regardless, the RIP9 matches closest to what I need out of my bike - pretty much everything else was a significant compromise in some way or another.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    34
    Thatís sad to hear. Hopefully something good comes out of it.
    Canít speak for recent stuff but Iíve never had any problems with my Air 9 Scandium, RDO carbon seatpoat/ handlebar/forkó-but then again that was all purchased in 2011-2012.

  15. #15
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    For years, it seems like every time I turned around, some internet retailer was/is "blowing out" Niners for huge discounts. Not just during the typical retail sale times, either, but at pretty much any given time of the year. Must have made it pretty hard to be a brick and mortar dealer for the brand. And that hardly seems like a smart long-term strategy.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Little_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    600
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    For years, it seems like every time I turned around, some internet retailer was/is "blowing out" Niners for huge discounts. Not just during the typical retail sale times, either, but at pretty much any given time of the year. Must have made it pretty hard to be a brick and mortar dealer for the brand. And that hardly seems like a smart long-term strategy.
    This is exactly the reason my lbs dropped Niner.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    I was literally within a week or two of ordering a 2018 RKT9 frame. I already purchased most of the components for the build ... not sure what I'll do now. Based on research the RKT sounds like a great fit for me, but it sure does sound like a shitty move on Niner's part!?

    I've owned three other Niners, but I might have to give others a look now ... Pivot's 429Sl, Santa Cruz, Giant ...

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9

    BK is a great move for customers and Niner

    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    I was literally within a week or two of ordering a 2018 RKT9 frame. I already purchased most of the components for the build ... not sure what I'll do now. Based on research the RKT sounds like a great fit for me, but it sure does sound like a shitty move on Niner's part!?

    I've owned three other Niners, but I might have to give others a look now ... Pivot's 429Sl, Santa Cruz, Giant ...
    BK is a great vehicle for Niner to shed some of their debt and invest in innovation and more killer bikes. They won't stiff any suppliers, LBS' or existing customers because they need them in order to continue. I am more psyched to buy a Niner now than I was before given that they will now have money to invest into their products. Funny to hear all the uninformed comments from folks that don't understand how BK works.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pedaler845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,158
    Quote Originally Posted by vonpepperberry View Post
    BK is a great vehicle for Niner to shed some of their debt and invest in innovation and more killer bikes. They won't stiff any suppliers, LBS' or existing customers because they need them in order to continue. I am more psyched to buy a Niner now than I was before given that they will now have money to invest into their products. Funny to hear all the uninformed comments from folks that don't understand how BK works.
    Funny to hear your ASSumptions.

  20. #20
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by vonpepperberry View Post
    BK is a great vehicle for Niner to shed some of their debt and invest in innovation and more killer bikes. They won't stiff any suppliers, LBS' or existing customers because they need them in order to continue. I am more psyched to buy a Niner now than I was before given that they will now have money to invest into their products. Funny to hear all the uninformed comments from folks that don't understand how BK works.
    Huh?

    1) They don't have a new buyer yet. They are hoping that dumping their debt through a Ch. 11 maneuver will encourage the deal to go forward. I wouldn't count those chickens till they hatch, personally.

    2) They've been stiffing LBSs for years already, by allowing online retailers to blow the shit out of their bikes, apparently whenever they feel like doing so. If they supposedly "need" LBSs, they certainly haven't been acting like it.

    But yeah, I'm glad you're "more psyched than ever to buy a Niner." I'm sure you'll be able to get one for pennies on the dollar. Good luck with that...
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by vonpepperberry View Post
    BK is a great vehicle for Niner to shed some of their debt and invest in innovation and more killer bikes. They won't stiff any suppliers, LBS' or existing customers because they need them in order to continue. I am more psyched to buy a Niner now than I was before given that they will now have money to invest into their products. Funny to hear all the uninformed comments from folks that don't understand how BK works.
    Nope...youre wrong....i have seen chapter 11 up close and the little guy gets screwed every time.

    Also....why would you suddenly expect Niner to suddenly give a RIP about their customers....as you say....thats not how BK works.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    719
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Huh?

    1) They don't have a new buyer yet. They are hoping that dumping their debt through a Ch. 11 maneuver will encourage the deal to go forward. I wouldn't count those chickens till they hatch, personally.

    2) They've been stiffing LBSs for years already, by allowing online retailers to blow the shit out of their bikes, apparently whenever they feel like doing so. If they supposedly "need" LBSs, they certainly haven't been acting like it.

    But yeah, I'm glad you're "more psyched than ever to buy a Niner." I'm sure you'll be able to get one for pennies on the dollar. Good luck with that...
    They already have a buyer.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/niner-fi...ent-group.html
    I like bikes

  23. #23
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    They already have a buyer.
    They have a potential buyer, dependent on Ch 11 proceedings and the dissolution of their debt. And even if all that goes smoothly, I wouldn't count on the same company emerging that went into this. Who knows? It might not even be called "Niner" a year from now.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  24. #24
    my body breaks the falls
    Reputation: twindaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    Filing for bankruptcy, screwing over your debtors so you can sell the company debt-free. Douche move.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    I don't think that's the more common use of a Chapter 11 filing. As I recall, the primary intent is to restructure debt. This usually means extended terms in order to reduce the need for liquidation of assets. Look at how many major US companies have filed Chapter 11 and come of it strong(er) without screwing anyone. Keep in mind, usually it's large investment banks who spend most days screwing you and I who are the debtors - it's not the LBS who works hard to fix your creaking bottom bracket.
    $500 million for more irresponsible EBRPD land management? No thanks.
    www.noonmeasureww.org

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    719
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    They have a potential buyer, dependent on Ch 11 proceedings and the dissolution of their debt. And even if all that goes smoothly, I wouldn't count on the same company emerging that went into this. Who knows? It might not even be called "Niner" a year from now.
    Itís a pending sale. Thatís a shitload more than a potential buyer. The only reason there are bankruptcy proceedings is to aid the buyer in keeping the company running, hence a reorganization under Chapter 11 thatís overseen by the courts. Otherwise itís close the doors, Chapter 7 and auction off the assets for pennies on the dollar and everybody gets screwed.

    Personally I have no dog in this fight, they have zero presence anymore where I live and their bikes wonít hold up to a 200lb dude like myself anyways.
    I like bikes

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    194
    This is quite interesting...it goes to show that people really just comment on the headlines and don't read the articles posted at all. Niner has been profitable for 5 of the last 6 years. They are doing well. They want to grow, and need investment to do that. Niner will file Ch11 so they can restructure debts to allow the investment group the cleanest and easiest way to purchase them and they plan to get out of the bankruptcy by Jan 30th. The investment group are in this for the long haul and want to see Niner take on larger bike manufacturers. Santa Cruz did something similar in 2015. Niner hope to come out of this stronger and be able to expand their product line. There you go...cliff notes for you guys

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9
    It is good business sense to honor supplier and customer commitments if the buyer intends to continue operating the business, and that is the intent of Chapter 11.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9
    perfect!

  29. #29
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by motomuppet View Post
    This is quite interesting...it goes to show that people really just comment on the headlines and don't read the articles posted at all. Niner has been profitable for 5 of the last 6 years. They are doing well. They want to grow, and need investment to do that. Niner will file Ch11 so they can restructure debts to allow the investment group the cleanest and easiest way to purchase them and they plan to get out of the bankruptcy by Jan 30th. The investment group are in this for the long haul and want to see Niner take on larger bike manufacturers. Santa Cruz did something similar in 2015. Niner hope to come out of this stronger and be able to expand their product line. There you go...cliff notes for you guys
    Thanks, and rest assured I actually read the articles. And while I don't want to see a good company go under, I'm just not as optimistic as you seem to be. But time will tell.
    Last edited by Smithhammer; 12-01-2017 at 07:53 AM.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: aliikane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,594
    Niner will still be around. The owner just didn't have capital to invest in marketing and research to be competitive. The new buyer has the capital and wants to try to grow the company. We will see if they succeed. I think bike companies are getting more and more pressured these days. Bikes are very expensive, riders buying less frequently, lots of competition, market is saturated with bikes, and trails are shrinking or getting more pressured to favor hikers and horses.

  31. #31
    Co Springs
    Reputation: bachman1961's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by motomuppet View Post
    This is quite interesting...it goes to show that people really just comment on the headlines and don't read the articles posted at all. Niner has been profitable for 5 of the last 6 years. They are doing well. They want to grow, and need investment to do that. Niner will file Ch11 so they can restructure debts to allow the investment group the cleanest and easiest way to purchase them and they plan to get out of the bankruptcy by Jan 30th. The investment group are in this for the long haul and want to see Niner take on larger bike manufacturers. Santa Cruz did something similar in 2015. Niner hope to come out of this stronger and be able to expand their product line. There you go...cliff notes for you guys
    Probably a few people trying their own translation or interpretation and as you say, not having taken the time to read up on it.

    I don't know if the warranty issues and drama I've read of plays a part but it seems likely anyone that isn't a Niner fan thinks they are going under, wants them to go under or wants everyone to believe they are all but defunct.
    Could be plenty of those folks piling it on too.

    I don't believe it's unrealistic to think they are presenting the best case plan with the wording of those details either but it certainly won't hurt they put things in the best light and see how it works out.
    I hope they have quick decisions coming forth and decisive leadership. If things stall or lose momentum, it may play as a lack of confidence. Time will tell and hopefully soon.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,254
    Classic case of bad news traveling fast. I have to admit though, I am concerned as I just bought a '17 rip and other than one all of our bikes are niners.

    I wish them the best and hope this doesn't turn into another titus.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  33. #33
    Pos rep makes me sad
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    292
    Isn't the "debtor" Niner? Creditors being the ones they owe?

    Chap 11 sounds more like strategic action, as opposed to bad news. Depending on your perspective, you might see it as bold & risky, but the plan was laid out to calm anxiety. Sounds better to me than no news. Money into R&D should be good news. They could use the marketing too.

    Since I live under a rock basically, this news only helped my economics knowledge. I heard of chap 11 bankruptcy protection before, but not in this context. The gist I got from all the comments and stuff, is that growing from revenue was too slow and their passion and ambition called for investment money, and doing this would make it attractive for that money to come. Chris Sugai is essentially selling off his ownership, and he made sure that it would go to someone who he approved of.

    I'm speculating here now: maybe he's more concerned over retaining the employees. Perhaps his employees felt the same way and demanded such change. I wouldn't count out adventurous types being the kind to leave for greener pastures, and it'd be a shame if such a relationship with passionate employees had to end. Perhaps they had a lot of concept work done, but were losing morale since it couldn't be greenlighted due to budget constraints and other things getting priority.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Lots of speculation.... and I am guilty of this too...

    BUT, I think we can all agree that a company declaring bankruptcy is not positive news. The best it can be is "less-bad" news

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    434
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Lots of speculation.... and I am guilty of this too...

    BUT, I think we can all agree that a company declaring bankruptcy is not positive news. The best it can be is "less-bad" news
    How does it feel to be personally responsible for Niner's demise? Your stuck seatpost thread really did them in!!!


    Certainly isn't good news. I own a couple of Niners and have been a fan.

  36. #36
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    BUT, I think we can all agree that a company declaring bankruptcy is not positive news. The best it can be is "less-bad" news
    As much as I agree it's "less-bad" than good from a consumer POV, I also feel like more organizations need some tough-love / hard-medicine to be long term healthy, sadly our USA business/financials markets appear to be structured that anything less than 100% growth quarter by quarter is total failure and signs of the apocalypse. :^(

  37. #37
    Pos rep makes me sad
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    292
    Who's declaring bankruptcy and who's done in? It's chap 11, and context states nothing but positive things.

    In a way, it counts as brand name exposure, AKA advertising. At least if people didn't think chap 11 meant "declaring bankruptcy" and that the company is being "done in"...

  38. #38
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    Who's declaring bankruptcy and who's done in? It's chap 11, and context states nothing but positive things.

    In a way, it counts as brand name exposure, AKA advertising. At least if people didn't think chap 11 meant "declaring bankruptcy" and that the company is being "done in"...
    Please. "Chapter 11" is literally a section of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. And it does most definitely mean filing for bankruptcy, even if the intention (or hope) is "reorganization."

    We can speculate on what this will all mean for Niner, but trying to present alternative facts about the nature of Chapter 11, as though it's just a matter of perception, is silly.

    If you're still confused, you can start here: Chapter 11 - Bankruptcy Basics | United States Courts
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  39. #39
    Pos rep makes me sad
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    292
    Ok, so I learned how it works in that link you gave, but it doesn't say why it's bad. It simply says that the debtor (Niner) is required to submit a plan of repayment to its creditors (those Niner owes money to). It's overseen by bankruptcy courts, and in this case it's voluntary. It would be involuntary, if the creditors filed it (the one filing it would have to pay the court fees). The demands are the same, a plan of repayment.

    Here's a quote from Chris Sugoi on this matter:

    "When I co-founded Niner back in 2005 it was due to my passion for bikes. That passion has only grown stronger through the years. Itís a blast, and has bee, learning so much about this industry and meeting so many passionate people who share my love of cycling. In recent years, Ninerís growth has slowed. We need to be able to grow to continue to be innovative and make great, reliable products. So, we have found a local Colorado group of businessmen, who are passionate about cycling, who call themselves Columbia Basin Partners and they have agreed to purchase the company. Through the rumor mill or misinterpreting how Chapter 11 bankruptcy works, you may have heard that we are going out of business. This is simply not true. In order to make the sale happen, we have had to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy which allows us to restructure our finances. We will emerge from Chapter 11 in roughly 60 day, on January 30, 2018 on more solid financial footing. In the meantime, we are well-funded and able to meet our financial obligations. Business is as usual around the offices. We are shipping bikes, helping riders with concerns, including warranty concerns, and all of our regular daily duties that makes Niner tick. Our team remains intact and is doing what we always do Ė working to support our riders and our local bike shops in whichever ways they need. My main goal, and our goal as a company, is to put big grins on the faces of mountain bikers and sure we are able to continue to support mountain biking. The 31 team members I have the pleasure of working with each day are avid riders. And we all believe in the power of mountain biking, the importance of supporting trail access and the ability for mountain biking to have an incredible impact on peopleís lives. Weíre in this for the long haul and soon will have the ability to innovate more and continue to create incredible products. And as always, weíll continue to push for trail access so riders have great places to ride.

    We appreciate your support and hope to see you on the trails.

    Peace,

    Chris Sugai"

    Here's an explanation in plain English, on some nuances of chapter 11:
    Bankruptcy Information | Chapter 11 Bankruptcy: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for Small Business

    In a mere 10 minutes of research on google, I get the impression that chap 11 is considered powerful tool to not only ensure survival, but to tap into the potential success of a company. It's chosen when the company's long term value is higher than liquidating its assets.

    Looking at it from an investor's point of view, taking on liabilities such as debt is a risk, and having this plan of repayment minimizes that risk.

    Looking at it from a creditor's point of view, they might be confused as to why there is a restructuring event, such as a change of ownership and might act. Filing Chap 11, letting them know their assets are higher than their debts, and that they have a repayment plan with an investor on board, calms such anxiety.

    Looking at it from a consumer's point of view, not even a Niner fan, it *should* not be any cause for alarm, unless you think that "declaring bankruptcy" or "filing for bankruptcy" is a bad thing in general, especially in response to such news where they left plenty of context that they have a plan.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    I have to question such a long post from a brand new member to MTBR....sounds like they may have some skin in the game....

  41. #41
    Pos rep makes me sad
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    I have to question such a long post from a brand new member to MTBR....sounds like they may have some skin in the game....
    Over half is copy and paste. Not nice to be prejudiced.

    Forgive me for not remembering the PWs to old accounts, which I apparently used temp email to make:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=808310

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,048
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post

    2) They've been stiffing LBSs for years already, by allowing online retailers to blow the shit out of their bikes, apparently whenever they feel like doing so.
    And this is a bad thing why?

    Unless you like paying more money for a bike for some reason.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  43. #43
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    And this is a bad thing why?

    Unless you like paying more money for a bike for some reason.
    It's a "bad thing" if you care at all about having a physical dealer network and LBS support.

    If you don't care about that, then I guess it doesn't matter. Though you may pay for it in other ways.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by motomuppet View Post
    This is quite interesting...it goes to show that people really just comment on the headlines and don't read the articles posted at all. Niner has been profitable for 5 of the last 6 years. They are doing well. They want to grow, and need investment to do that. Niner will file Ch11 so they can restructure debts to allow the investment group the cleanest and easiest way to purchase them and they plan to get out of the bankruptcy by Jan 30th. The investment group are in this for the long haul and want to see Niner take on larger bike manufacturers. Santa Cruz did something similar in 2015. Niner hope to come out of this stronger and be able to expand their product line. There you go...cliff notes for you guys
    companies doing well don't file for protection under bankruptcy laws....

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: titusquasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,423
    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    Itís a pending sale. Thatís a shitload more than a potential buyer. The only reason there are bankruptcy proceedings is to aid the buyer in keeping the company running, hence a reorganization under Chapter 11 thatís overseen by the courts. Otherwise itís close the doors, Chapter 7 and auction off the assets for pennies on the dollar and everybody gets screwed.

    Personally I have no dog in this fight, they have zero presence anymore where I live and their bikes wonít hold up to a 200lb dude like myself anyways.
    Uhhh...ride weight over 250lb and it's holding up just fine. Where did that come from?

  46. #46
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Uhhh...ride weight over 250lb and it's holding up just fine. Where did that come from?
    The MCR was kind of noodly for me when I was 240#, and then added gear, so I can see the "whippet" frames being targeted to a smaller framed rider.

    Def not the current RIP9RDO though, that's a solid construct to be sure. :^)

  47. #47
    wretch
    Reputation: Truckee Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,122
    Id like to ask the question if some dude walked up to them and cleared their debt what would they do? No sale and the team they talk so highly of kept moving forward ... what would they choose to do to change or not change? Would they still utter the words of ebikes and kids bikes? What is all the R&D they speak of? Is it a brand thing? A bike thing? Both?

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: socal_jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,448
    For all the ****wits posting and anyone that has bought a Cannondale since 2003, they also filed a Chapter 11. Doing fine now.
    Canfield R1OT SS
    ROS9+ SS
    ROS9 SS

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LargeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    For all the ****wits posting and anyone that has bought a Cannondale since 2003, they also filed a Chapter 11. Doing fine now.
    That was for their Moto division, not the bicycle and where are the moto's now?

  50. #50
    Ambassador of Chub
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    For all the ****wits posting and anyone that has bought a Cannondale since 2003, they also filed a Chapter 11. Doing fine now.
    And based on that one largely erroneous example, it will therefore it will always go smoothly. Talk about a ****wit comment....
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: socal_jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,448
    It was brought on by their Moto division but it allowed the sale of the bicycle assets, nobody wanted the moto
    Canfield R1OT SS
    ROS9+ SS
    ROS9 SS

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Wait.....i am still a nitwit right?

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144
    Well damn. I too was casually considering a RKT if and when my Gen 1 RDO gave up the ghost. But who knows- the warranty just expired, and it's still going strong...(insert jinx verbiage LOL)

    But if one were to say with the brand for their next purchase, what kind of "blow out pricing" might one anticipate? 1/3 off msrp? I still consider their product of high quality, and if the price is right, to hell with the warranty!

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rngspnr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    918
    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    I was literally within a week or two of ordering a 2018 RKT9 frame. I already purchased most of the components for the build ... not sure what I'll do now. Based on research the RKT sounds like a great fit for me, but it sure does sound like a shitty move on Niner's part!?

    I've owned three other Niners, but I might have to give others a look now ... Pivot's 429Sl, Santa Cruz, Giant ...
    Don't forget to consider a Following. If you don't have to have a boost frame the V1's are $1900 right now. Pretty good deal for a carbon bike that is very capable.
    2016 Evil Following V1
    2016 Dartmoor Primal+

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rngspnr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    918
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Huh?

    1) They don't have a new buyer yet. They are hoping that dumping their debt through a Ch. 11 maneuver will encourage the deal to go forward. I wouldn't count those chickens till they hatch, personally.

    2) They've been stiffing LBSs for years already, by allowing online retailers to blow the shit out of their bikes, apparently whenever they feel like doing so. If they supposedly "need" LBSs, they certainly haven't been acting like it.

    But yeah, I'm glad you're "more psyched than ever to buy a Niner." I'm sure you'll be able to get one for pennies on the dollar. Good luck with that...
    Niner restructured a few years back. Probably to free up money for the development of the latest line of bikes. As far as stiffing the LBS's I think they may have been looking at going direct sale like many companies are doing. The launch of their latest line of bikes was less then successful they got to the new Geo party a little too late and their prices weren't competitive enough. Unfortunately the local bike shops as we know them are a dying business model. Much like the music industry were the only way artists can make any money is by touring. Bike shops rely more on repairs and service now then ever before. The article says that they have a Colorado investment group interested in purchasing Niner. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Sugai is part of this "investment group". Either way I think this is the nail in the coffin for Niner. JMO not defending or ragging on Niner. My first FS MTB was a RIP9. It was an ok bike had it for maybe a year and lost my ass on it when I sold it.
    2016 Evil Following V1
    2016 Dartmoor Primal+

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    580
    I bet Niner transitions to a consumer-direct brand after they emerge from bankruptcy. Seems like a good brand to go online.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    19
    The worse thing that could happen in this sale is that someone else outbids the group Niner has planned to buy it. Someone like Pacific, Huffy, Trek or Giant could buy them. This is what happened to Schwinn/GT. The owners had planned for Huffy to buy them. Pacific came in with more money and won in court. Hope it works out for them but Niner is taking a chance.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,048
    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    It's a "bad thing" if you care at all about having a physical dealer network and LBS support.

    If you don't care about that, then I guess it doesn't matter. Though you may pay for it in other ways.
    I like paying less if I can. Not dedicated to any bike shop or brand. Just who will give me the best price for what I want.

    I purchased a Niner online this year during a blowout sale... $1300 less than it was normally selling for. Not sure why I would want to pay more for the same bike at a LBS.

    IMO...the big 4...Trek, Specialized, Giant and Cannondale should sell online also.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: velocanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    131
    I hope the company comes out strong on the other end. I've got two Niner bikes in my MTB stable--a Jet 9 alloy and Air 9 carbon with Niner rigid fork. Don't get to ride either as much as I'd like but they are fast, fun bikes. I'd like to an RLT carbon some day if I can find more dirt and gravel roads to ride. My Trek Domane is pretty well-suited for dirt roads but maxes out at 32mm tires.
    Niner Jet9, Niner Air9C
    Trek Domane, Scott CR1

    Watch Your Line: Techniques to Improve Road Cycling Skills

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Choro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    628
    When will the RKT9 blowout sale begin?

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Choro View Post
    When will the RKT9 blowout sale begin?
    Right now would be great! I looked at other options but the RKT is exactly what I want ... so if it goes on sale all the better!

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    One manís loss is anotherís man gain.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: titusquasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,423
    My guess is there is a good chance that current inventory may get blown out during the next year.

    Dang...I really like that new mint color on the RIP and I just bought an orange earlier this season!

  64. #64
    Pos rep makes me sad
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    292
    They have 3.4 mill in bike and bike part inventory.

    This thread in pinkbike comments taught me a bit about chap 11: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/niner-...tml#cid1853328

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    Anyone have any new info or updates?

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    33
    Some more information here, including the names of the potential buyers and details of the assets and liabilities: Niner assets to be sold this month | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    So looks like we will find out thurs.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    Anyone know if the sale went thru?

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    33

  70. #70
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,587
    Niner Acquisition? Awe, that's gonna look like crap on the downtube.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    companies doing well don't file for protection under bankruptcy laws....
    I have no idea...guess not, but there seems to be hope from the articles.
    Here's hoping Niner come out of this doing great!

  72. #72
    SPECIALizED
    Reputation: UPSed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    479
    My buddy is a Niner dealer and here are his thoughts.

    It was a requirement for the sale to the new investor. It's no secret that Niner has been looking for an investor for about 6-7 years so they could put more money towards R&D. They finally found one. The stipulations were Niner had to file Chapter 11 to clean up the books and simplify the sale.
    When a company does this, it opens the door for other interested buyers to offer bids. As expected, none were offered and the terms of sale can be met.
    Niner wasn't in the red. They just didn't have the capital to grow.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    So, Iím no business guy. Are you saying they could have paid their bills? But now some suppliers wonít get paid? And this new owner get to start fresh?

    If so. Thatís shady. Couple that with some of recent ways they have treated customers with warranty issues. And Iím out. My new Jet will be my last Niner

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Yup.....
    I have a budget of $4k for a new crossbike this month and it won't be a Niner!

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    So, Iím no business guy. Are you saying they could have paid their bills? But now some suppliers wonít get paid? And this new owner get to start fresh?

    If so. Thatís shady. Couple that with some of recent ways they have treated customers with warranty issues. And Iím out. My new Jet will be my last Niner
    I'm no business man either, but if I understand this correct ... most, if not all of Niner's suppliers will be paid in full. These suppliers will still be needed as Niner moves forward with the new ownership. This was simply a restructuring of their debt, not a defaulting on debts (I think).

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Yup.....
    I have a budget of $4k for a new crossbike this month and it won't be a Niner!
    While I dislike Specialized as a company, imo you cannot beat the Crux for a racing specific cross bike. I've owned two of them and loved both!

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Lots of unhinged optimism here...

    Companies don't declare bankruptcy because they are able to pay their debts. They do it to eliminate unsecured debt and in this case make it a better deal for the new buyer.

    Bankruptcy is the first step....
    Then the sale....
    Then the layoffs (I know they said there would be no layoffs...just watch),
    Then the raiding of any assets of value (patents, stock, the actual Niner name)
    Than they sell what is left to whomever still feels there is value in the name (think Bikesdirect and Motobecane).

    What is left is an empty shell with a lot of people holding on to nothing more than promises. This is what happened with Titus (Thank you Mr. Mike Gann) and this is the road Niner is currently traveling on.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Lots of unhinged optimism here...

    Companies don't declare bankruptcy because they are able to pay their debts. They do it to eliminate unsecured debt and in this case make it a better deal for the new buyer.

    Bankruptcy is the first step....
    Then the sale....
    Then the layoffs (I know they said there would be no layoffs...just watch),
    Then the raiding of any assets of value (patents, stock, the actual Niner name)
    Than they sell what is left to whomever still feels there is value in the name (think Bikesdirect and Motobecane).

    What is left is an empty shell with a lot of people holding on to nothing more than promises. This is what happened with Titus (Thank you Mr. Mike Gann) and this is the road Niner is currently traveling on.
    The Salt is real.

  79. #79

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144
    I think that's a DOH! A bird in the hand...

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    This certainly leaves Niner's future looking clear as mud! As much as the RKT seems to be the perfect bike for my needs ... Pivot and the 429sl is starting to look better and better.

  82. #82
    wretch
    Reputation: Truckee Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,122
    So who's buying? Trek? Waltons? Look?

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,322
    Totally weird. The newer article makes it sound like Niner turned down the Denver bid when the earlier article clearly had the Denver group running from the deal. Definitely some spin going on, they are now the same merged article.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    This certainly leaves Niner's future looking clear as mud! As much as the RKT seems to be the perfect bike for my needs ... Pivot and the 429sl is starting to look better and better.
    Yup. Despite how good the RKT seems, itís hard to seriously consider investing in one.


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  85. #85
    Enthusiast
    Reputation: JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,359
    Any new news? Anyone know whom the other two suitors are?

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Choro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    628
    When does the inventory blowout begin?!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Maybe we can buy 50lbs steel Niners at Wal-Mart soon!

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Maybe we can buy 50lbs steel Niners at Wal-Mart soon!
    Would you like a lemon with that pint of bitter?

    Seriously dude - we get it. You got hosed on a warranty issue. That sucks and would suck for anyone in your position. But hanging around and sh*t posting because you are butt hurt is un-constructive and uncalled for.

    There are a lot of Niner owners out there (ex-owner myself) that love the bikes and would hate to see the brand and the company go under.

    Im not saying you dont have the prerogative to be upset. Its just that your attitude and negativity are unconducive to the community that is mtbr.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    Would you like a lemon with that pint of bitter?

    Seriously dude - we get it. You got hosed on a warranty issue. That sucks and would suck for anyone in your position. But hanging around and sh*t posting because you are butt hurt is un-constructive and uncalled for.

    There are a lot of Niner owners out there (ex-owner myself) that love the bikes and would hate to see the brand and the company go under.

    Im not saying you dont have the prerogative to be upset. Its just that your attitude and negativity are unconducive to the community that is mtbr.
    yeah... you are right....
    It wasn't even about the money...I just got upset because they lied.

    Can I just hope that the new owners clean house and do a better job with their customers?

    No more Niner S**T posting from me, and my apologies for doing so.

    WP

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smithcreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    602
    I've warned two people who were considering Niner's about their situation. They were glad to know and I can guarantee won't be buying a Niner in the near future. Any ethical bike shop carrying Niner will inform customers and push them towards other brands. What bike shop would want to deal with taking thousands of dollars from a customer when there's a strong possibility Niner disappears along with the warranties and replacement parts. Putting off the sale, if Niner had any part in the decision, was another nail in the coffin.

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: coke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,586
    Ordered some parts off of Niner's website and they arrived with no issues. Thought I'd share in case anyone was worried about ordering from them.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Sir kayakalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    307
    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    Ordered some parts off of Niner's website and they arrived with no issues. Thought I'd share in case anyone was worried about ordering from them.
    So the sky isn't falling?!?!?
    That's good to hear since I just bought a JET and a RIP last year, thanks for letting us know

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    826
    FWIW, my preferred LBS carries Niner (I think they sell pretty well) and I was chatting with the owner and he basically told me everything is still business as usual for him.

    I'm not in the market for a Niner and he's a pretty candid guy (never tries to upsell anyone) so that may be comforting to those who are concerned.

  94. #94
    Enthusiast
    Reputation: JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    Putting off the sale, if Niner had any part in the decision, was another nail in the coffin.
    That was such an odd thing. The first buyer had the deal right? The courts had approved the deal. Why would that first buyer step aside and lose out on what presumably was a desirable purchase?

    Imagine you were at the grocery checkout counter with a choice cut of roast beef. Someone comes up to you and says: "Hey, give me that roast and stand aside while I consider whether to buy it for myself."

    Why would the buyer who had gone through all the trouble to arrange the purchase, suddenly decide to stand aside and let it all go?

  95. #95
    my body breaks the falls
    Reputation: twindaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    I've warned two people who were considering Niner's about their situation. They were glad to know and I can guarantee won't be buying a Niner in the near future. Any ethical bike shop carrying Niner will inform customers and push them towards other brands. What bike shop would want to deal with taking thousands of dollars from a customer when there's a strong possibility Niner disappears along with the warranties and replacement parts. Putting off the sale, if Niner had any part in the decision, was another nail in the coffin.
    Although I understand why people are concerned, this seems and overreaction to me. For example, do you no longer fly United, drive a GM or shop at Macy's because they restructured their debt? You might be surprised at the number of reputable companies that have used this method to stay afloat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._11_bankruptcy
    $500 million for more irresponsible EBRPD land management? No thanks.
    www.noonmeasureww.org

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    There was an above post that linked this news.

    The reason Niner and the Stalking horse bid (original buyer) backed away from one another was for 2 reasons: One of their debtors objected to the terms of the Bankruptcy (there was a change in the terms of the deal), and there were 2 other bidders offering a higher price.

    IANAL - but odds are that while under Chap11 Niner is legally obligated to explore the best / highest offers it receives.


    The Doom and Gloom in this thread is just amazing. Unless you have some insider knowledge and are intimately aware of the details of the situation - there is just not enough information publicly available to justify the Sky is Falling attitude. At this point we have no idea which way this is going to go, we need to just wait and see.

  97. #97
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    In peril of troll feeding, Niner was showing at the recent bike expo in England.

    Not necessarily the action of a company intending to leverage an Exit Strategy.

  98. #98
    wretch
    Reputation: Truckee Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,122
    Or their UK distributor making an effort to move some bikes?!?

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    194

    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    There was an above post that linked this news.

    The reason Niner and the Stalking horse bid (original buyer) backed away from one another was for 2 reasons: One of their debtors objected to the terms of the Bankruptcy (there was a change in the terms of the deal), and there were 2 other bidders offering a higher price.

    IANAL - but odds are that while under Chap11 Niner is legally obligated to explore the best / highest offers it receives.


    The Doom and Gloom in this thread is just amazing. Unless you have some insider knowledge and are intimately aware of the details of the situation - there is just not enough information publicly available to justify the Sky is Falling attitude. At this point we have no idea which way this is going to go, we need to just wait and see.
    ^ This.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    820
    I've been so concerned about all of this that I have purchased a Jet and a RKT, at blow out prices I might add!!!!

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Choro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    628
    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I've been so concerned about all of this that I have purchased a Jet and a RKT, at blow out prices I might add!!!!
    Where? I'd like a RKT!

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by twindaddy View Post
    Although I understand why people are concerned, this seems and overreaction to me. For example, do you no longer fly United, drive a GM or shop at Macy's because they restructured their debt? You might be surprised at the number of reputable companies that have used this method to stay afloat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._11_bankruptcy
    Good point Twindaddy,

    The majority of US passenger airlines have filed Chapter 11 at some point, and most of them are doing quite well these days. While I'm still delaying my RKT frame purchase, and still giving the Pivot 429SL serious consideration ... I am still very interested to see what happens with Niner. I've loved every Niner I've owned, and they've been the best mtb's I've owned to this point!

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I've been so concerned about all of this that I have purchased a Jet and a RKT, at blow out prices I might add!!!!
    Where at!!?

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    820
    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    Where at!!?
    One from a bikeshop in AU off of Ebay and one from CO Cyclist (frames only), both below $2K shipped, brand new!!! They will pop up just gotta keep your eyes peeled.

  105. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Any more news on the Niner Bankruptcy / Sale?

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: upstateSC-rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,619
    Ok, I admit it, I bought them. After the signing I hope to be sharing awesome Niners with everyone...

    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    Any official word?

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kfb66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    Any official word?
    Tired of waiting. I've moved on and have a Pivot 429SL on order ... excited to try out a new brand and bike!

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation: offrhodes42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    537
    As far as I understand it is all going forward with one buyer from what this article says.
    No new Niner bidders appear, sale scheduled for next week | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    Business as normal. I would not hesitate to buy a Niner if I was in the market for a new bike.

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by offrhodes42 View Post
    As far as I understand it is all going forward with one buyer from what this article says.
    No new Niner bidders appear, sale scheduled for next week | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    Business as normal. I would not hesitate to buy a Niner if I was in the market for a new bike.
    😂😂😂😂
    Last edited by WP Local; 02-18-2018 at 07:34 PM.

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272

    You are a fool....

    Quote Originally Posted by offrhodes42 View Post
    As far as I understand it is all going forward with one buyer from what this article says.
    No new Niner bidders appear, sale scheduled for next week | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    Business as normal. I would not hesitate to buy a Niner if I was in the market for a new bike.

    I wish I had money to waste like you do.....sure they are good bikes....but right now you cant even get parts for them!

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smithcreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by offrhodes42 View Post
    As far as I understand it is all going forward with one buyer from what this article says.
    No new Niner bidders appear, sale scheduled for next week | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    Business as normal. I would not hesitate to buy a Niner if I was in the market for a new bike.
    I really hope Niner makes it, but what? The day before the sale was to go through one of the two main creditors went to court to stop the deal because they did not like the terms. This caused the buyer to completely drop their offer, and somehow this is good news? In my last post I said this was another nail in the coffin for Niner precisely because the longer their future is up in the air, the longer people and bike shops are going to sit on the sidelines, maybe wait, and eventually like kfb66, order a different bike. Spring is coming up fast and people are buying/ordering their bikes now for the coming season.

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation: offrhodes42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    I really hope Niner makes it, but what? The day before the sale was to go through one of the two main creditors went to court to stop the deal because they did not like the terms. This caused the buyer to completely drop their offer, and somehow this is good news? In my last post I said this was another nail in the coffin for Niner precisely because the longer their future is up in the air, the longer people and bike shops are going to sit on the sidelines, maybe wait, and eventually like kfb66, order a different bike. Spring is coming up fast and people are buying/ordering their bikes now for the coming season.
    I guess that is were my confusion is coming from. When I read the article it said no other bidders came forward and the buyers where ready to move forward with the purchase. Am I wrong in my assumptions and the sale is now off?

  114. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smithcreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    602
    This is the last article. It's short, but if you read the whole thing it's pretty clear the deal fell through because there were unresolved issues regarding where the two main creditors stood in line to get the proceeds of the sale. Something you think might have been ironed out long before any deal was made, not the day before the papers were supposed to be signed. The rest, including the title of the article, is just spin by Niner to make it sound like they made the choice to halt the sale.
    Niner sale delayed as new bidder emerges | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation: offrhodes42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    537
    Clearer now. I still love my 2012 SIR 9 and my original RLT. Personally I hope the make it through all of this.

  116. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    So what happens now Fire sale?

  117. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    So what happens now Fire sale?
    Hope so


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  118. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    In the event that Niner goes out of business What suspensions parts do we need to stock up on? 2018 Jet RDO

  119. #119

  120. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Legbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,564
    Maybe they can update their geometry now.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for ďI suck at brake control.Ē Hereís a free tip: get better."

  121. #121
    SPECIALizED
    Reputation: UPSed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Maybe they can update their geometry now.
    Curious what you mean by that? I have a 2017 Jet 9 RDO that is head-over-heels better than the last generation. I believe their Rip and Rkt were updated as well for '17.

  122. #122
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    They were, but that geometry is soooo 2017 now.

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Legbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,564
    Short reach and long seat tubes prevent me from getting the reach I want and being able to fit a dropper. I recently bough a 29 hard tail frame and Niner's AM HT was out of contention from the get go.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for ďI suck at brake control.Ē Hereís a free tip: get better."

  124. #124
    SPECIALizED
    Reputation: UPSed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    They were, but that geometry is soooo 2017 now.
    Haha!

    Gotcha TB.

  125. #125
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,649
    I remember owning the vanna white Jet 9 RDO and then all the cracked frames started happening so I sold mine before I cracked it. My LBS said Niner was being terrible with warranties and they finally dropped Niner. Not to mention they were pretty irate when online stores were always fire selling them for cheaper they could at the LBS level and stuck with inventory. I went to bike festival back in Sept., Niner was there, Ibis, SC, Yeti, Transition, Mondraker, and Intense. Honest truth, the Niner booth had no one visiting it. I felt bad for those guys, they were just sitting around texting. I really wondered why no one was interested.

  126. #126
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    Rev,

    From my POV, Niner has for some [possibly numerous] reasons had less "sparkle" than the other brands you mention (in particularly Yeti, Transition, Mondraker, Intense) for some time. Why? {shrug} Dunno.

    When I lived in TX there was a fair number of 29er early/mid adopters and they were clear about how well Niner executed on that wheel size better than most. I was a long holdout from trying 29er and my 1st was a 3rd hand MCR-9 hard-tail that I built up rigid (e.g. being a cheap-o). I won't say it was like a rainbowed dawn awakening or anything but it was clearly a great bike.

    WRT: customer service, I've seen train-wreck commentary against pretty much every brand. I've seen commentary about an LBS having terrible relations with almost every brand. It always happens, eventually, somewhere. People are people. No way to fix that. I've found it hard to take any of that to the point that I'd single out and exclude any specific OEM because of it, since I don't personally know the people reporting the incidents and the other individuals involved in their situation. Don't get me wrong, I don't argue people aren't having horrible CS experiences, I just don't think Niner has been as catastrophically worse than many others. To me there's a huge pool of OEMs that all fall into the behavior level Niner has presented, which is about industry average.

    But.

    Niner's allowance for the close-out prices vs various online sites, regularly, even with relatively new models, really doesn't help their case. I also find it irritating. Want to save 1000 on a new bike? Wait a month. {shrug} This really bites for the LBS.

    You can look back now with 20:20 hind-sight and guess that they've been trying to simultaneously a) advance their designs, b) support [some] pro racers and ambassadors, c) move product, d) deal with less than perfect finances, and e) who knows what; but that doesn't mitigate how much bad flavor has been generated because of it.

    The Yeti perspective of "**** all, we're staying small, deal with it" is a very valid way to go.

    If Niner has it in their head to grow bigger, well, good luck with that. That's a very very tough road to take, a very uphill battle. Very challenging to compete against the $ value propositions represented by Specialied, Trek, and in particular Giant.

  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation: titusquasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,423
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Short reach and long seat tubes prevent me from getting the reach I want and being able to fit a dropper. I recently bough a 29 hard tail frame and Niner's AM HT was out of contention from the get go.
    I agree on the geo. The seat tubes way too long, especially in the XL model. My 2017 RIP RDO had a seat tube of 21.5" (stated 21" but not true). I cut it down 0.5" just to run a 125mm dropper. The problem here is the design runs the upper link pivot through the seat tube. They will need to revamp that to solve the issue.

  128. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I remember owning the vanna white Jet 9 RDO and then all the cracked frames started happening so I sold mine before I cracked it. My LBS said Niner was being terrible with warranties and they finally dropped Niner. Not to mention they were pretty irate when online stores were always fire selling them for cheaper they could at the LBS level and stuck with inventory. I went to bike festival back in Sept., Niner was there, Ibis, SC, Yeti, Transition, Mondraker, and Intense. Honest truth, the Niner booth had no one visiting it. I felt bad for those guys, they were just sitting around texting. I really wondered why no one was interested.
    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    I agree on the geo. The seat tubes way too long, especially in the XL model. My 2017 RIP RDO had a seat tube of 21.5" (stated 21" but not true). I cut it down 0.5" just to run a 125mm dropper. The problem here is the design runs the upper link pivot through the seat tube. They will need to revamp that to solve the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    In the event that Niner goes out of business What suspensions parts do we need to stock up on? 2018 Jet RDO
    Lower pivot bolts.
    For real....

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272

    Salsa Warbird Carbon Rival

    Lots of options with actual warranties and customer serviceNiner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale-15192326985271497794295.jpg

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    15
    Hi Everyone
    I have been following this thread and want to ask all of for your opinion. Given that Niner has now been acquired, should I keep my 2016 Jet 9 RDO or sell it. I love the bike and I race with it, but worried about parts availability and support. The model is pre update to geo. I got burned when Titus went down, owning 3 Titus bikes at the time. I held on and by the time they finally were acquired by On One, I couldnít get parts and there was little resale value left. Right now the Niner situation feels eerily similar. I appreciate any and all insight.

  131. #131
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    No one here is going to be able to give you any certainty with regards to Niners future.

    You will have to weigh all the available information yourself and come to a decision.


    Niner has found a buyer - which under ideal conditions means they will continue to operate. There are plenty of companies that have bounced back from Chapter 11, or have been bought out by PE firms and done just fine.

    That being said it would have been better for all, if they did not have to go down the Ch11 / Buyout path in the first place. There are also plenty of examples of companies getting gutted and shuttered after a PE acquisition.

    There isnt much if any information on Emerson International (the buyer) online so its hard to know what their historical track record is. For Niners part they claim that they will continue to operate independently and that its business as usual. Take that for what you think its worth.

    Parts / Service are their own can of worms. Part availability for discontinued bikes is a problem with any brand (except Yeti who seems to have an infinite supply). Niner has recently started selling parts for their current gen bikes on their website, so it seems (at least to me) that they are getting better with regards to spares than they have been. Whether that extends to older models is an open question.

    Warranty seems to be a hot topic on this sub with a few people flailing about disappointment and others mentioning good experiences. I personally take that as a meaningless datapoint as a quick google will turn up any number of warranty issues with every brand. To add to that: forums and crowd sourced reviews tend to have a selection bias towards those with an axe to grind.

    If you are gun shy due to your past experience with Titus thats reasonable. But this case is not that case and the outcome here is TBD. If you love the bike, you should continue to do so. It is a bike - its for riding and enjoying. You would be better served on the trails with smile on your face, than stressing over it.

  132. #132
    wretch
    Reputation: Truckee Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,122
    My question is what changes are being made or need to be made if things are "remaining the same" internally to put them back on a better path in both brand and product?

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation: terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,254
    I got caught up in the titus El Guapo V2 debacle myself. I loved my V1 and wanted to build a second, and when On One brought out the screwed up V2 we all got hosed. Less than a year later my V1 broke and I was just out of a bike.

    I wouldn't run out and sell the bike just yet. It's not like the bolts just fail and the bearings are of a standard size so I wouldn't fret too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by vinracer View Post
    Hi Everyone
    I have been following this thread and want to ask all of for your opinion. Given that Niner has now been acquired, should I keep my 2016 Jet 9 RDO or sell it. I love the bike and I race with it, but worried about parts availability and support. The model is pre update to geo. I got burned when Titus went down, owning 3 Titus bikes at the time. I held on and by the time they finally were acquired by On One, I couldnít get parts and there was little resale value left. Right now the Niner situation feels eerily similar. I appreciate any and all insight.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  134. #134
    mtbr member
    Reputation: terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,254
    They seem to be pushing the idea that more capital was needed to make updates to product. There isn't any mention of "cleaning house" in the office or that they had huge failures in product. I'm sure whoever buys them will want a tight hold for a good while.

    Niner is an odd brand. They seem to have this "if you don't like us that's fine, ride something else" attitude. They aren't dangling bait bikes (yeti SB6) everywhere and trying to push everyone to their end. I kind of appreciate that. Different strokes for different folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash View Post
    My question is what changes are being made or need to be made if things are "remaining the same" internally to put them back on a better path in both brand and product?
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by vinracer View Post
    Hi Everyone
    I have been following this thread and want to ask all of for your opinion. Given that Niner has now been acquired, should I keep my 2016 Jet 9 RDO or sell it. I love the bike and I race with it, but worried about parts availability and support. The model is pre update to geo. I got burned when Titus went down, owning 3 Titus bikes at the time. I held on and by the time they finally were acquired by On One, I couldnít get parts and there was little resale value left. Right now the Niner situation feels eerily similar. I appreciate any and all insight.
    An actual answer....

    The bike is awesome! Keep it....
    When it does die...buy a new frame from pivot and move your parts over...


    Done

  136. #136
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    15
    I appreciate everyoneís perspective. I think I will hang in for now and hope the brand survives.

    WP Local, you make a good pint about just riding it until it dies and swap parts onto a new frame.

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,649
    Where I would have to disagree is Pivot, Ibis and Santa Cruz. Most importantly Santa Cruz has a reputation for really good CS. I have lived in 5 different states (man I hate moving!) and have LBS owner friends who carried these brands plus Niner. Hands down they told me Santa Cruz is the fastest response in issues if there ever is. They said Ibis and Pivot are also very good in taking care of their customers.

    Only one of the shops I know continued to keep Niner, the others just said they took forever to respond to frame cracks, pivot problems, etc. Yes, the discounting of frames also upset them that they never kept Niner in stock unless someone ordered one. The other company they did not want to deal with is Evil as well. They did tell me that Yeti has improved dramatically in CS from their past, which is good for Yeti customers. They said Yeti used to take forever in responding and many times would not stand by their carbon products, granted this was about 3 years back. What I found interesting was they have seen Santa Cruz even help out second owners with frame issues with generous discounts.

    So I'm not exactly buying that all companies are not that great in customer service. I have friend who used to work at SC and he said Robb made it clear that customer service was a priority and he wanted a 24 hour turn around on issues so customers are not off the trail for days. That could be why they have such a good rep out there, he also told me they only have one guy working in the warranty dept., I found that interesting.

    I had my issues with Niner in past. It's not worth telling what my issues were because I'm not trying bash them. I'm just saying some companies have really improved their CS and some have maintained a great CS care reputation.

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    33
    I've owned two Niners and my personal experience with their customer service has been positive. They have always responded promptly and helped address whatever issue or question I raised. They just worked with my local shop to replace the rear triangle and swing arms on my Jet 9 RDO under warranty. I hope that they thrive under new ownership and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Niner in the future.

  139. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Choro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    628
    Quote Originally Posted by knoxpossum View Post
    I've owned two Niners and my personal experience with their customer service has been positive. They have always responded promptly and helped address whatever issue or question I raised. They just worked with my local shop to replace the rear triangle and swing arms on my Jet 9 RDO under warranty. I hope that they thrive under new ownership and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Niner in the future.
    I've had good warranty experience as well. They've treated me right and I keep going back to them.

  140. #140
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Choro View Post
    I've had good warranty experience as well. They've treated me right and I keep going back to them.
    Me too. Triangle replaced under warranty and pivot bolt gratis


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  141. #141
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Choro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    628
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclutch View Post
    Me too. Triangle replaced under warranty and pivot bolt gratis


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!
    Second time rear triangle was mentioned. What happened to yours?

  142. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,144

    Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Choro View Post
    Second time rear triangle was mentioned. What happened to yours?
    The upper linkage insert nuts appeared to be working loose. Jet 9 RDO v1.0

    I say appeared because in retrospect I think it was just the superficial layer of paint that cracked around the nut, just like the replacement did too, which is solid 4 1/2 yrs later (at risk of jinxing myself. LOL )


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  143. #143
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
    Reputation: kwarwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclutch View Post
    The upper linkage insert nuts appeared to be working loose. Jet 9 RDO v1.0

    I say appeared because in retrospect I think it was just the superficial layer of paint that cracked around the nut, just like the replacement did too, which is solid 4 1/2 yrs later (at risk of jinxing myself. LOL )


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!
    My 2012 Jet 9 RDO did the same thing, but as far as I could tell the nuts weren't actually loose. Then the seat tube developed cracks down near the front derailleur. Warrantied the frame late last year and Niner took good care of me and replaced the complete frame with a RKT 9... no complaints at all.

  144. #144
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,580
    Niner has been passed by their competitors and from what I have read on MTBR and BRAIN has left a lot of IBS with harsh feelings.

    I am skeptical that their biggest problem was financial.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  145. #145
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    34,091
    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Niner has been passed by their competitors and from what I have read on MTBR and BRAIN has left a lot of IBS with harsh feelings.

    I am skeptical that their biggest problem was financial.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm sure it was, but at the same time, the reason why it was financial can be traced back to the business model.

    Make niner-sized bikes all-in when everyone else is just starting to dabble, bam, guaranteed niche market. At some point down the road though, if 29ers take off, large manufacturers are going to leverage their R&D and production to make their own amazing niner bikes, and they did. Once that happened, where did Niner have to go? What was their "ace" in the hole? CVT was fairly mediocre and roughly replicated most horst-links for AS and suspension traits, so nothing there, so what was going to be the "new niche"? Great to start a company, but business is hard and there's always someone that's going to come along to do what you do better, quicker, more efficiently, and so on. It's not impossible to keep the company running, but it takes a lot more vision and effort than it did back when "just make 29ers" was the plan. Companies like Knolly fill a niche for sturdy hardcore riding, some just concentrate on making a few very good bikes, not held back by one wheelsize, but the original idea ended up backing Niner into a corner IMO and without coming up with a new niche, slowly died off.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  146. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,574
    Jayem. I think you hit the nail on the head.
    Last edited by fiveo; 02-24-2018 at 08:56 PM.

  147. #147

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272

  149. #149
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    34
    So far I haven't found anything about the company Emersion who is buying them.

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,083
    You hit the nail on the head, the CVA was good at the time and 29ers were a very niche market, but you forgot the part about constant need of warranty because of a proper lack of R&D and trying to make stuff too thin and light, would love to know what percentage of bikes came back for warranty in comparison to other successful companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm sure it was, but at the same time, the reason why it was financial can be traced back to the business model.

    Make niner-sized bikes all-in when everyone else is just starting to dabble, bam, guaranteed niche market. At some point down the road though, if 29ers take off, large manufacturers are going to leverage their R&D and production to make their own amazing niner bikes, and they did. Once that happened, where did Niner have to go? What was their "ace" in the hole? CVT was fairly mediocre and roughly replicated most horst-links for AS and suspension traits, so nothing there, so what was going to be the "new niche"? Great to start a company, but business is hard and there's always someone that's going to come along to do what you do better, quicker, more efficiently, and so on. It's not impossible to keep the company running, but it takes a lot more vision and effort than it did back when "just make 29ers" was the plan. Companies like Knolly fill a niche for sturdy hardcore riding, some just concentrate on making a few very good bikes, not held back by one wheelsize, but the original idea ended up backing Niner into a corner IMO and without coming up with a new niche, slowly died off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  151. #151
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, the CVA was good at the time and 29ers were a very niche market, but you forgot the part about constant need of warranty because of a proper lack of R&D and trying to make stuff too thin and light, would love to know what percentage of bikes came back for warranty in comparison to other successful companies.
    Even a small percentage of warranty replacements can sink a company this small. It only takes a bad design and constant frame failure on one model to stress the company and FUBAR their customer service. After you start beading money it's hard to take care of loyal customers so they leave.

    For example Santa Cruz goes above and beyond. They have almost zero bad press from warranties and it shows in loyalty and new customers.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  152. #152
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm sure it was, but at the same time, the reason why it was financial can be traced back to the business model.

    CVA was fairly mediocre and roughly replicated most horst-links for AS and suspension traits, so nothing there, so what was going to be the "new niche"? Great to start a company, but business is hard and there's always someone that's going to come along to do what you do better, quicker, more efficiently, and so on. It's not impossible to keep the company running, but it takes a lot more vision and effort than it did back when "just make 29ers" was the plan. Companies like Knolly fill a niche for sturdy hardcore riding, some just concentrate on making a few very good bikes, not held back by one wheelsize, but the original idea ended up backing Niner into a corner IMO and without coming up with a new niche, slowly died off.
    Fixed it for you.

    I had the opportunity to go to Outerbike and ride: Yeti 5.5, Pivot 429T, JET9 RDO, RIP9 RDO, Ibis Ripley, Spot Mayhem. I've also ridden a Evil Wreckoning (friends bike) and rented a SC TBLT and Transition Sentinel. Meh. For me the top 2 bikes were SPOT Mayhem and RIP9 RDO. TBH I'm not sure what the draw is with the SC TBLT, the suspension seemed blah and the slacker seat angle is so 2012. Transition Sentinel climbed like poop. Went down nice enough, but 33 pound aluminum bike? No thanks.

    I think the RIP9 RDO is one of the most overlooked bikes. That bike is right up there with everything else in the category. Maybe it's the carbon JET9 RDO breakage issue of years past, but guess what...all bikes break. My buddy broke 4 rear ends on his ASR. Another friend has broken 2 Pivot Firebirds. Search the forums and you will see, the Yeti thread is just as depressing as WP Local's thread with huge "Anti Yeti" sentiments. I think Yeti is now charging $3500.00 per frame to cover their warranty rate, and since they are one of the "cool kid" bike companies right now, they somehow get away with it.

    Turner is another one I scratch my head about. Nothing relevant in years. Ibis too, they need a new 29" trailbike or risk falling off the back. None in my riding circle are into 27.5 bikes it seems, and Specialized/Trek (gasp) are being considered by many of them for their next bikes.

  153. #153
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    I had the opportunity to go to Outerbike and ride: Yeti 5.5, Pivot 429T, JET9 RDO, RIP9 RDO, Ibis Ripley, Spot Mayhem. I've also ridden a Evil Wreckoning (friends bike) and rented a SC TBLT and Transition Sentinel. Meh. For me the top 2 bikes were SPOT Mayhem and RIP9 RDO. TBH I'm not sure what the draw is with the SC TBLT, the suspension seemed blah and the slacker seat angle is so 2012.
    When did you go to Outerbike? The Tallboy LT "seat angle is so 2012" because it was made in 2012 and stopped being made in 2015. It was replaced by the Hightower. It's not even produced anymore. Its so 2012 because it was made in 2012.

    The draw with the Tallboy LT was that it was the first of its kind in a 29er in that day to have such a short wheelbase and be able to be built up at 26-27 lbs with a Pike and 1x12. IT was good then, but things have progressed since then and Santa Cruz has moved on to producing much better long travel 29ers.

  154. #154
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by motomuppet View Post
    Santa Cruz did something similar in 2015. Niner hope to come out of this stronger and be able to expand their product line. There you go...cliff notes for you guys
    No they didn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    companies doing well don't file for protection under bankruptcy laws....
    Agree with you WP.

    @Motopuppt, Roskopp was offered a very generous deal by Pon Holdings and did not file chapter 11 to do the deal. They approached him, many people have been approaching him. They bought SC straight up. What you may not know Motopuppet, is that Santa Cruz is the biggest of the boutique brands, which really blew up since 2012 and seemed to not lose steam.

    They own, that is right, they OWN, their very own carbon production facility in Taiwan and control everything that takes place there. This facility they own does not produce any other frames for any other company, they only do SC frames. Their frames are not made by Giant or some other Asian company. In the USA, they have their own carbon testing and production facility where they make their wheels, carbon bars and test mules for their new carbon frames. So, no, Santa Cruz did not do what Niner is doing.

    Whether you like SC bikes or not, the companies are totally different and one has been totally successful and a leader in the industry for many things since the early 1990's. They were one of the real first MTB brands back in the day. The Tallboy 29er was the real first 29er that changed the game and got people to consider 29ers.

    I have the utmost respect for Chris in switching from tinting windows to starting Niner in 2002 and I sure hope he can keep the business afloat. It's hard to be a small business owner but I give him much credit and I think keeping the offices primarily in Co was a better move for Niner financially as well. He's a really great guy and I for one would hate to see it not continue. I remember when they came out the carbon Jet 9 RDO, those frames were a work of art! Really well done and I don't know about you all, but I think EVIL copied/stole Chris' frame designs on all their frames, it looks like the old Jet 9RDO or the old Rip 9RDO carbon. I'm surprised Niner didn't sue them for that, but then again, Chris is a such a great person it is not a surprise.
    Last edited by Rev. 14; 03-06-2018 at 10:25 AM.

  155. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm sure it was, but at the same time, the reason why it was financial can be traced back to the business model.

    Make niner-sized bikes all-in when everyone else is just starting to dabble, bam, guaranteed niche market. At some point down the road though, if 29ers take off, large manufacturers are going to leverage their R&D and production to make their own amazing niner bikes, and they did. Once that happened, where did Niner have to go? What was their "ace" in the hole? CVT was fairly mediocre and roughly replicated most horst-links for AS and suspension traits, so nothing there, so what was going to be the "new niche"? Great to start a company, but business is hard and there's always someone that's going to come along to do what you do better, quicker, more efficiently, and so on. It's not impossible to keep the company running, but it takes a lot more vision and effort than it did back when "just make 29ers" was the plan. Companies like Knolly fill a niche for sturdy hardcore riding, some just concentrate on making a few very good bikes, not held back by one wheelsize, but the original idea ended up backing Niner into a corner IMO and without coming up with a new niche, slowly died off.
    Okay, I think you make some solid points on the financial aspect and I have not given them enough weight. My point is that Niner's problems are indicative of its management as well, and if that same management is given more capital I don't think it is a slam dunk.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  156. #156
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post

    They own, that is right, they OWN, their very own carbon production facility in Japan and control everything that takes place there.
    Really, is that correct? Or do you mean Taiwan?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  157. #157
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Really, is that correct? Or do you mean Taiwan?
    Oops, sorry, yes, Taichung Taiwan... I'll edit my post.

  158. #158
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,658
    Subscribed; owner of a trouble free Niner RIP 9 since '10---might still be going strong 8 years from now. Wonder if it'll outlast the company. (Wonder if I'll still be going strong 8 years from now?)
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  159. #159
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    34,091
    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Okay, I think you make some solid points on the financial aspect and I have not given them enough weight. My point is that Niner's problems are indicative of its management as well, and if that same management is given more capital I don't think it is a slam dunk.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I agree with you, it's exactly that. When they get more capital, what will be the niche? Is it niner-fatbikes? An expanded line of niner-enduro bikes? Getting into bike-packing/hauling markets? There's got to be more than just "we are going to build some carbon 29er bikes that everyone else is building now". The WFO was a good example of not really knowing what direction to take. The first version was the old "we'll fit a front D on there by stretching the chainstays and making already more stable more more stable and make it handle poor by modern standards". That was excusable with the first iteration, but then Specialized and others started refining this category and the next WFO was too little too late, the other manufactures had already passed this up with offerings on both sides (less and more travel) of the product spectrum. Back when most manufactures were hesitant to come out with a full 29er product line, the role/niche of Niner was clear. Now? Doesn't seem so and up until getting bought out, we didn't see anything that indicated different.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  160. #160
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,083
    Exactly, even when they were honestly niche, they weren't very forward thinking and took forever to listen to their customers. I say that because nearly all of their customers were over forking nearly all of their bikes to try and get slacker angles and it took them years to finally listen and then it was only a small change and then customers still kept over forking them trying to achieve the angles they wanted. I won't get into all the warranty crap that came about from lack of having proper engineering experience on board or proper proto testing, customers were their testers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I agree with you, it's exactly that. When they get more capital, what will be the niche? Is it niner-fatbikes? An expanded line of niner-enduro bikes? Getting into bike-packing/hauling markets? There's got to be more than just "we are going to build some carbon 29er bikes that everyone else is building now". The WFO was a good example of not really knowing what direction to take. The first version was the old "we'll fit a front D on there by stretching the chainstays and making already more stable more more stable and make it handle poor by modern standards". That was excusable with the first iteration, but then Specialized and others started refining this category and the next WFO was too little too late, the other manufactures had already passed this up with offerings on both sides (less and more travel) of the product spectrum. Back when most manufactures were hesitant to come out with a full 29er product line, the role/niche of Niner was clear. Now? Doesn't seem so and up until getting bought out, we didn't see anything that indicated different.
    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Okay, I think you make some solid points on the financial aspect and I have not given them enough weight. My point is that Niner's problems are indicative of its management as well, and if that same management is given more capital I don't think it is a slam dunk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  161. #161
    wretch
    Reputation: Truckee Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Okay, I think you make some solid points on the financial aspect and I have not given them enough weight. My point is that Niner's problems are indicative of its management as well, and if that same management is given more capital I don't think it is a slam dunk.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I tried asking that question, perhaps passively, in this thread earlier on. That's my same point as well. What's changing that's not going to put them on the same trajectory as before? Same marketing? Same Management? Same Finance team? When the news first dropped and there was mention of kids, womens, fat, electric bikes that just stank of people thinking with their pockets making decisions. I would be scrutinizing every process and some of that is completely unrelated to numbers. It's very hard to measure and improve brand related instances and they are rarely short term efforts / results.

  162. #162
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash View Post
    I tried asking that question, perhaps passively, in this thread earlier on. That's my same point as well. What's changing that's not going to put them on the same trajectory as before? Same marketing? Same Management? Same Finance team?
    this is more of a curiosity for me than anything, as I wonder hypothetically as an investor or new owner:

    ďThe initial plan is to promote/sell 29ers through longstanding IBD relationships? Sounds like just the thing that the industry needs.Ē

    They met a niche at first that exploded into a new type of bike for the industry. They did it from nothingóamazing! Kudos to 9er for taking that risk and crushing it.

    but I wonder how engaged it remained as the response to competitors has apparently not been compelling. Just look at Jayem and Lynx informative posts above.

    When smaller outfits pick and choose their comparative advantage they can be nimble and quick. But when the big guys like Trek & Specialized respondóit can make things ďreally effing hardĒ for the smaller outfits (paraphrasing an old quote from Nukeproof when Shimano decided to enter their market back in the day.). One benefit to Trek pushing Boost, e.g., is it makes it more costly for 9ers and smaller boutiques to respond.

    Still, if the 9er brand can drive sales with an updated product then perhaps this new owner is not taking much risk? who knows? i have my doubts but Now they have to execute on whatever it is they are planning.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  163. #163

  164. #164
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272

  165. #165
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    Would you like a lemon with that pint of bitter?

    Seriously dude - we get it. You got hosed on a warranty issue. That sucks and would suck for anyone in your position. But hanging around and sh*t posting because you are butt hurt is un-constructive and uncalled for.

    There are a lot of Niner owners out there (ex-owner myself) that love the bikes and would hate to see the brand and the company go under.

    Im not saying you dont have the prerogative to be upset. Its just that your attitude and negativity are unconducive to the community that is mtbr.
    What are your thoughts about hearing who bought them?

  166. #166
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    What are your thoughts about hearing who bought them?
    Why does it even matter? ? ? Is it because the new owner also happens to own Huffy and other brands?

    Volvo is owned by a Chinese company - Zhejiang Geely Holding Group - and they are doing just fine.

  167. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    What are your thoughts about hearing who bought them?
    Same thoughts I had the first moment I came into this thread: There isn't enough information to really know. We know what UWHK and Niner have said, but that should probably be taken with a gain of "PR Spin" flavored salt.

    As GSJ1973 mentioned - it kind of doesn't matter, or at least has the potential to not matter. There are plenty of Parent companies that own a plethora of different brands that all operate independently. Amer Sports owns both Mavic and Enve, do you see Enve Wheels shipping with Mavic Hubs? Trek Bikes is owned by Intrepid, and they have owned all sorts of shit including a Flooring company.

    UWHK Ltd could be trying to Horizontally Integrate / Build a diverse portfolio of investments in the bike industry. Each asset operating independently addressing another end of the market.

    Then again they could also end up folding Niner into Huffy, or start using Huffy to produce Niner bikes. That would definitely suck and be a sad end to Niner.

    Do you have any evidence to reach any of the above, or the million other possible, conclusions?

  168. #168
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29

  169. #169
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    Same thoughts I had the first moment I came into this thread: There isn't enough information to really know. We know what UWHK and Niner have said, but that should probably be taken with a gain of "PR Spin" flavored salt.

    As GSJ1973 mentioned - it kind of doesn't matter, or at least has the potential to not matter. There are plenty of Parent companies that own a plethora of different brands that all operate independently. Amer Sports owns both Mavic and Enve, do you see Enve Wheels shipping with Mavic Hubs? Trek Bikes is owned by Intrepid, and they have owned all sorts of shit including a Flooring company.

    UWHK Ltd could be trying to Horizontally Integrate / Build a diverse portfolio of investments in the bike industry. Each asset operating independently addressing another end of the market.

    Then again they could also end up folding Niner into Huffy, or start using Huffy to produce Niner bikes. That would definitely suck and be a sad end to Niner.

    Do you have any evidence to reach any of the above, or the million other possible, conclusions?
    Naw....
    I was just curious what people thought about it.
    Lot's of good points made about other companies who are quite successful under similar scenarios.

  170. #170
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    29
    Don't get me wrong - Im not saying things are Rosy. Just that there are a lot of unknowns.

    It would have probably been best for Niner if they didn't have to go the Chapter 11 route. But here we are.

    For now things appear to be about the same as they have been over at Niner. Hopefully with the new cash infusion they can start being more generous with their warranties eh?

  171. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    462
    Another similar ownership relationship is with Procycle owning Rocky Mountain. Procycle is known for lower end mountain bike brands like CCM and Miele. They've let Rocky pretty much do their own thing since buying them.

  172. #172
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    378
    Lynx, the jet warranty issues were mostly a production issue. Not related to design or testing. Both of which were never really an issue at niner. Sometimes even the best plans go sideways when you can control the whole situation. But in the bright side a lot of other companies are making better bikes because of the work that the niner team invested into making carbon factories better.

  173. #173
    Bannėd
    Reputation: Trevor Ochmonek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    289
    Just saw that theyíve made some little updates for RIP/JET.

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2018/03/13...rdo-rip-9-rdo/

    Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale-06b74bd7-028b-42db-84dc-be4938db50e7.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's more than Catfish would do.

  174. #174
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Ochmonek View Post
    Just saw that theyíve made some little updates for RIP/JET.

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2018/03/13...rdo-rip-9-rdo/

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	06B74BD7-028B-42DB-84DC-BE4938DB50E7.jpg 
Views:	91 
Size:	84.8 KB 
ID:	1187352
    Does that mean they have required bare cable through the internal ports prior to this upgrade? If so, sounds like it was a PITA for quite a while.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  175. #175
    Chilling out
    Reputation: bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,027
    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Does that mean they have required bare cable through the internal ports prior to this upgrade? If so, sounds like it was a PITA for quite a while.
    Basically yes, the rubber covers for the ports were made to serve as housing holders. You either had to reverse-feed the inner wire to serve as a guide for the housing, or just forward feed the housing, builder choice. It was less irritating than I expected it to be, on my RIP9RDO, but having full run inner guides is certainly easier.

    I hope they're as quiet as the current setup, I never hear my housing moving in the frame.

  176. #176
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321
    I hope you don't want a long dropper. Neither looks like it could take more than a 150 if that.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  177. #177
    Bannėd
    Reputation: Trevor Ochmonek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I hope you don't want a long dropper. Neither looks like it could take more than a 150 if that.
    I am still running a KS LEV 125 on my newer RIP that was on my old one and itís plenty, even in the bike park. Now that being said, I am curious about these Bike Yoke droppers and want to try the 160 if it fits. Havenít done the measurement checks yet, 2 young kids so bike toys are secondary right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's more than Catfish would do.

  178. #178
    R-P
    R-P is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    34
    I run a BikeYoke of 185mm in my RIP9RDO. It goes all the way in. However it is a XL frame. I measured 270mm max insertion. Smaller frames may have less max insertion.
    Name:  rip9rdo_revive.JPG
Views: 650
Size:  42.3 KB

  179. #179
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Exactly, even when they were honestly niche, they weren't very forward thinking and took forever to listen to their customers. I say that because nearly all of their customers were over forking nearly all of their bikes to try and get slacker angles and it took them years to finally listen and then it was only a small change and then customers still kept over forking them trying to achieve the angles they wanted.

    And those same people will continue to run niner into the ground until the BOD sh*tcans sugai. I give him 12-18 mos.
    Hei Hei CR29
    Supreme SX

  180. #180
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,874
    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    And those same people will continue to run niner into the ground until the BOD sh*tcans sugai. I give him 12-18 mos.
    Thats assuming they understand the issues that people *on here* are talking about. Doubtful. They've probably been sold a story that there's nothing wrong with the product; they just overbought... signed unfavorable contracts with suppliers... got screwed by the factory that made the defective frames, etc.

  181. #181
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,322
    Won't matter what they've been told about past performance when nobody buys their new products. The numbers don't lie and CS now has people to answer to.

    It's going to be fun to watch.


    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Thats assuming they understand the issues that people *on here* are talking about. Doubtful. They've probably been sold a story that there's nothing wrong with the product; they just overbought... signed unfavorable contracts with suppliers... got screwed by the factory that made the defective frames, etc.

  182. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation: offrhodes42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    537
    I am trying to figure out all the hate going on here. My local Niner dealer is great to deal with and as far as I am aware has processed all warranty issues through Niner with no issues. I have an old SIR and the original RLT and luckily have never had to deal with warranty issues, but these bikes meet my needs. The new SIR and alloy AIR have the perfect geometry for my type of riding. Not everyone wants or needs super slacked out, ultra-low bottom brackets, with crazy long reaches. My assumptions may be wrong, but a XC oriented bike is what a majority of people should be buying instead of the marketing telling them "You need an enduro bike". Intense saw that when they went direct sales, there was more demand for their XC oriented bikes. I do agree that the carbon cracking was not good for them, but other companies have survived similar circumstances.

  183. #183
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    580
    Niner seems like a good candidate for a direct-to-consumer approach. They sort of ďcame of ageĒ online, to me at least: lots of online hype early on, solid website, pretty much no dealer presence (at least around here).

  184. #184
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,484
    Quote Originally Posted by offrhodes42 View Post
    I am trying to figure out all the hate going on here. My local Niner dealer is great to deal with and as far as I am aware has processed all warranty issues through Niner with no issues.
    This is not an LBS issue. It's a Niner issue.

    I personally know of two Niner owners that have had simple, legitimate warranty claims that went through the wringer in trying to get their warranties addressed. Both eventually achieved the warranty, but the process took many phone calls, ignored emails and constant grief to see the deal settled. One got his claim warrantied in just over 3 weeks and the other took over 6 weeks.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  185. #185
    Bannėd
    Reputation: Trevor Ochmonek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    289
    Iíve had 2 warranties over 4 years.. first was just a cosmetic ďcrackĒ in the clear coat on my RIP RDO frame and had a new frame built back up in less than 48 hours no questions asked and no hassle. Second time was just last year when my RIP actually had a little crack and they were on top of it again. Offered me a replacement for free or upgrade to the new version for a fee and I chose the latter. New frame arrived at LBS like Amazon Prime and I was riding the new frame within a week of the first contact (LBS also loaned me a Niner JET for a race while mine was out of service).

    I give my LBS a lot of credit though so I guess it depends on that and maybe other things like location (Iím in So Cal). At the end of the day I canít knock Ninerís warranty handling from my own experiences and would buy from them again if they hadnít turned into Huffy. Ibis Ripmo will be my next ďRip.Ē

    Pics of both cracks, first wasnít a real crack but second was.
    Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale-0a563f39-45c6-4b67-9941-8b9d8cbf30c2.jpg

    Niner files for Ch 11 ahead of company sale-6ccb1394-47d7-4328-b682-c0f31b744abd.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's more than Catfish would do.

  186. #186
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,083
    And how about all those people who don't live in the US or Canada who then have to be without a bike and pay exorbitant shipping and duties for all these great warranty replacement frames? I have a though, do proper due diligence and testing, BEFORE you release your products to market and let your consumers be your paying testers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    This is not an LBS issue. It's a Niner issue.

    I personally know of two Niner owners that have had simple, legitimate warranty claims that went through the wringer in trying to get their warranties addressed. Both eventually achieved the warranty, but the process took many phone calls, ignored emails and constant grief to see the deal settled. One got his claim warrantied in just over 3 weeks and the other took over 6 weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  187. #187
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pedaler845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,158
    I have to back Niner. I bought my awesome 2014 Jet RDO from Competitive Cyclist. My local shop (Wheel & Heel in Wappingers NY) noticed the rockers were bad while doing a bearing service last year.
    All parties hooked me up, gratis on replacement rockers. Fast.

  188. #188
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    do proper due diligence and testing, BEFORE you release your products to market and let your consumers be your paying testers.
    This was my experience with Niner, and also that of numerous acquaintances.
    I had a first gen Jet9 RDO that had so many simple flaws it seemed like no one had ridden a prototype for any period of time. How could they have, and still put it into production as is?

    They have a terrible reputation around here and I think both dealers dropped them a couple years ago.

  189. #189
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,083
    Just because I have it, thought it needed posting again. Their QC was more than horrible, shit like this made it into customers hands.




    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
    This was my experience with Niner, and also that of numerous acquaintances.
    I had a first gen Jet9 RDO that had so many simple flaws it seemed like no one had ridden a prototype for any period of time. How could they have, and still put it into production as is?

    They have a terrible reputation around here and I think both dealers dropped them a couple years ago.
    P1030197 (Large).JPG

    P1030200 (Large).JPG
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  190. #190
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post

    They have a terrible reputation around here and I think both dealers dropped them a couple years ago.

    Same here. My LBS was a fairly new and loyal niner dealer and as soon as they got wind of the CH 11 they dropped them.

    Niner and ellsworth should merge and become the sears/k-mart of the bike industry. it'd be hilarious.
    Hei Hei CR29
    Supreme SX

  191. #191
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Just because I have it, thought it needed posting again. Their QC was more than horrible, shit like this made it into customers hands.






    P1030197 (Large).JPG

    P1030200 (Large).JPG
    And this was what, year 2007/2008 when that original JET 9 came out? Niner was barely a company then

    I think you have to cut them (or any) company some slack dude. I know you like Banshee, and I've been around long enough that they are no poster child for top notch full suspension bikes either. They had serious issues too. My friend broke 4 Yeti ASR rear ends. Another friends Intense was welded crooked. Every replacement they sent him was the same way. Crooked. So stuff happens, and its how a company takes care of you which you should pay attention to. Before Niner had money problems, they had GLOWING customer service. That wan't too long ago, but people have short term memories.

  192. #192
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,580
    One of the reasons for so much criticism of Niner in this thread is the other thread with the stuck seat post. The poor response to the customer and then keeping his bike and destroying it were inappropriate (being diplomatic). The latter is not just a single data point as those were not knee-jerk responses. They seemed to go out of their way to make clear that neither they nor Jenson were responsible and they made it impossible for the customer to do anything else with his own property. If all those things were "mistakes" or "slip-ups" on their part then there was a very easy way to demonstrate to the customer--warranty the bike. Who cares about empty apologies--make the situation right.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  193. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    261
    Amen. While I really like my new Jet. It will prob be my last Niner. And I am very brand loyal.

  194. #194
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WP Local's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    272
    Hopefully the new parent company can change the culture within Niner.
    IMO they need become more consumer focused and work on improving dealer relationships. A new parent company gives them a 1x chance to rebuild the trust that has been lost.

    Stop using the end user to beta test new designs, stop being so challenging with your distributors and financially undercutting them and stop tripping over quarters to save pennies when it comes to customer service.

    Good luck to Niner. They have a tough road ahead of them, but if they come out with a new culture that focuses on the points above maybe they can get their mojo back!

Similar Threads

  1. How old is the Niner company?
    By Finch Platte in forum Niner Bikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-20-2016, 05:38 PM
  2. Replies: 108
    Last Post: 10-02-2015, 03:17 PM
  3. Best Value Bike Company & Worst Value Bike Company???
    By unrooted in forum Riding Passion
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 02-17-2015, 09:35 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-09-2013, 01:25 PM
  5. Trail conditions - likely dumb question ahead
    By snowdirt in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-04-2011, 01:32 PM

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.