Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I have
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    A friend of mine has a similar problem. His 2014/5 Jet RDO has it's KS Lev post stuck in it.

    He contacted Niner, asked how to possibly solve this problem. He bought it used so no warranty or crash replacement. They offered up some advice on what kind of fluids might break the post loose. However when asked how those fluid would react to the carbon frame, they didn't know. So they basically said pour this fluids down your frame to loosen the post, but we don't know if it's gonna damage the frame or not. He is in quite the pickle.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    I have a New Jet 9 ROD and love it.

    Unfortunately I had a warranty concern and Niner is not being responsive.

    I originally posted this in the Passion thread but want to see what this group thought.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/need-...t-1058435.html


    If nothing else...its an entertaining read with lots of lessons learned.

    Thanks.
    Niner does not ship complete built bikes to bike dealers. They ship frame+wheels+fork+build kits. It's on the dealer to build the bike properly, and I've never known of a case to install a seatpost "dry" which sounds like the case in your situation. Grease for metal-on-metal/carbon or carbon grit paste for carbon-on-carbon applications.

    This is kind of a grey area, since Niner didn't ship you a bike - rather Jenson USA built it. I've lost pivot bolts on my JET9 rdo and it's on me to make sure I have bolts before I go ride, so I can see how this might be a general maintenance issue. Sucks all around, if it were me I'd pour some gas on the seatpost - let it soak and put it in a vise/twist away like we did in the old steel-on-steel stuck seatpost days!

  4. #4
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    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  5. #5
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    done
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:18 AM.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=GSJ1973;13377488]Niner
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:20 AM.

  7. #7
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    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  8. #8
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    So my question is after reading several stuck seatpost threads. What is the preventive maintenance? Love you post around often?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    I also had the opportunity to discuss this problem with 3 separate bike shops. They all agree that whereas carbon prep should be used when installing a seat post in a carbon frame, only a defect in the seat tube would cause the problems I experienced.
    The only way I can see blaming the manufacturer is if they didn't ream deep enough into the frame and the seatpost got wedged deep in the bottom. If it's just stuck because the seatpost wasn't properly installed with fiber grip, or some form of lubrication, then it's 100% not their fault. Carbon fiber causes weird corrosive things to happen and I could see a post getting frozen in the frame without lube.

    I've personally had many seatposts fully inserted in Niner frames with no issues leading me to believe it's a reaming problem. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I've not experienced it.

    If fiber grip was used (or carbo paste or whatever) the seatpost wouldn't be stuck IMO.
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  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=*OneSpeed*;13378600]The only way
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #11
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    I'd go after the moron that put the thing together with no fiber grip and stop blaming Niner.

    Use carbo paste, problem solved= not manufacturing defect.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=*OneSpeed*;13379078]I'd go af
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:25 AM.

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    Yeah, the fact that the frame is gone is really too bad. You'll never know for sure what happened. You would have hoped Niner would have cut the frame and taken some pictures to determine if it's corrosion or a frame issue. My guess is Niner probably did this anyways to learn from the situation. This seems like a problem easily solved with a little time taken to rip the seat post out or cut the frame. Good luck.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=matixsnow;13388567]Yeah,
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  15. #15
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    They say they destroyed the frame but you really wouldn't know for sure.
    What seems obvious to me is they know there is an issue and really don't want it fully circulated by others who have "proof" or evidence. IOW, No way will they want a frame with that problem left to be checked or inspected by others who can draw conclusions and find fault or an actionable claim.
    It works better in this case for them to be left a mystery and especially since it can be diluted with Jenson USA as a variable.


    ** If they don't get the ball rolling soon with a reasonable solution or settlement, I don't see what you have to lose by letting them know you've compiled information and links to others on bike forums and bike shops with similar problems and would rather get fair settlement than pursue it on a much bigger scale. They'd be downright silly to not get this put to rest and I'm surprised they are not seeing that already. It's okay to be bold and assertive in your communication with them if it's possible you have been a bit too polite or patient thus far.
    I did not count the words on the few threads here but Holy Godspeed Galvanic Corrosion !! Just get a glimpse of the thousands of text here already related to them and this issue. They've already lost a few followers or potential bike sales, money, profits etc.... that would be well beyond what it takes to get you straight.
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  16. #16
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    I really don't see how they can justify destroying your frame without your permission. You shipped it to them to inspect but that didn't mean you gave up ownership unless they made it clear that they would not be returning it, even if they were denying any warrantee claim. Seems to me the only way they could permissibly destroy it is with your permission or if they worked out a settlement with you which included not returning it.
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  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=chazpat;13389844]I really
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:27 AM. Reason: spelling

  18. #18
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    I've also had really poor communication with niner regarding stuff.

    Hope it works out for you!

  19. #19
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    You said you took the crash replacement up front, right? I could see myself doing this as well. Pay $900, get the new frame first and then ship the old frame to Niner. The number of days lost riding = 0! However, you probably hoped they'd evaluate the frame further and refund your money if it was a warranty issue. Instead, they kept the old frame, your $900 and destroyed the frame. Very frustrating...

  20. #20
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    The mods might want to consider combining this post with the sister post here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/need-...t-1058435.html

    I am very disappointed in Niner and Jenson, they are chasing what is referred to as "Bad Profits". For less than $600 per company, this valid customer issue could have been easily handled and rather than receiving the backlash from the MTBR community and tarnishing their images, they would have had a satisfied customer preaching how great both companies are.

    Based on the OP's issue and how it was handled, I will not buy a Niner bike and will recommend others avoid the brand. And as a long time Jenson customer, I will never make a major purchase with them again.

    This site is full of stores of companies doing the right thing to take care of customers. Take Canfield for example, on their forum, you will find customers who are fiercely loyal to the brand and the team at Canfield. Yes, the bikes are bad ass, but you can find bad ass bikes from many brands. The difference is how the Canfield team treats their customers and handles problems.

    Niner and Jenson- You really screwed up here.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
    The mods might want to consider combining this post with the sister post here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/need-...t-1058435.html

    I am very disappointed in Niner and Jenson, they are chasing what is referred to as "Bad Profits". For less than $600 per company, this valid customer issue could have been easily handled and rather than receiving the backlash from the MTBR community and tarnishing their images, they would have had a satisfied customer preaching how great both companies are.

    Based on the OP's issue and how it was handled, I will not buy a Niner bike and will recommend others avoid the brand. And as a long time Jenson customer, I will never make a major purchase with them again.

    This site is full of stores of companies doing the right thing to take care of customers. Take Canfield for example, on their forum, you will find customers who are fiercely loyal to the brand and the team at Canfield. Yes, the bikes are bad ass, but you can find bad ass bikes from many brands. The difference is how the Canfield team treats their customers and handles problems.

    Niner and Jenson- You really screwed up here.
    Agreed on all points and wanted to some additional insight from someone that works for a manufacture that sells B2B.

    OP should of worked directly with the distributor (Jenson) during the whole process. Never bypass the distributor unless you have direct connection (good relationship) with the manufacture to make it right. The distributor and a large one like Jenson should carry their weight towards Niner to fix the issue and make the customer happy.

    If it was me, would go back to Jenson to get the damaged frame back if it was not placed into QA or thrown in the trash (we do that alot if the same quality issue is found on numerous products). In many cases if we dont find a defect we will send it back to the customer at their expense.

  22. #22
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    Don't agree. I believe a consumer is choosing a manufacturer and a product. It is a relationship. I want to like the company and the product. If the company does not want any part with me. I want no part with the company. I just sold a 2017 Jet 9 that was warrantied by niner because I am done with the company. Niner customer communication blows (but they do try to do the right thing, I just don't like communication with them, so I am done with them). I am in Colorado and supported a Colorado company.

    Sell the bike. It is going to break. No doubt.

  23. #23
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    This might not be an isolated incident. If Niner discovered this problem with perhaps an entire production run worth of frames, they could be taking it up with their framebuilder in Taiwan as we speak, which would explain the lack of communication over the last few days.

    Maybe they Fedex'd the frame to Taiwan?

    Welcome to the world of importing. BTDT in a different industry. Never again!

  24. #24
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    Niner. We know you are reading all this. Do the right thing and step up and take care of your customer. If for nothing else for all of us other Niner customers that are now worried that if we have an issue with one of our bikes we will be treated the same.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    Niner. We know you are reading all this. Do the right thing and step up and take care of your customer. If for nothing else for all of us other Niner customers that are now worried that if we have an issue with one of our bikes we will be treated the same.
    I'm with you on the above. I love my new Niner Jet 9 RDO. I also want to know that Niner will stand up and help me if any issues arise. There really aren't many places where the public can post about their experience with a bike company. MTBR is one of the biggest. Pinkbike for sure, but there is almost no Niner posts in their forum. In fact, Pinkbike hates on Niner which is really unfortunate. So...is MTBR the only popular forum where people post about their Niner bikes? If so, they are definitely reading. They may choose to not comment, which I understand. It is probably an all or nothing type strategy for a bike company. My assumption is most bike companies choose to stay out of public forums like these, it does more harm then good.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    This might not be an isolated incident. If Niner discovered this problem with perhaps an entire production run worth of frames, they could be taking it up with their framebuilder in Taiwan as we speak, which would explain the lack of communication over the last few days.

    Maybe they Fedex'd the frame to Taiwan?

    Welcome to the world of importing. BTDT in a different industry. Never again!
    I'm thinking the same, they know of an issue but are not wanting it put out or revealed. Could be they are still working on it to see what/who is at fault but if they did ship the frame anywhere, they certainly lied about it by telling the bike owner they destroyed the frame.
    Last edited by bachman1961; 10-26-2017 at 05:24 PM.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

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    I didn't review the whole thread (or the linked one) so forgive me if it's been covered already. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I will say that my last Niner (air 9 rdo carbon) did have a frame problem. It cracked just below the seat post. I took it to my local bike shop and also sent some photos of it along with an email. They warrantied it quickly and painlessly. On my new bike, Jet 9 RDO 3 star, I bought it in the box, had to assemble the whole bike. They definitely do say to use paste on the seat post at assembly to avoid it becoming one piece.

  28. #28
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    Anyone else go and check that their seatpost moves freely because of this thread?
    I know I did but I never heard of this (possible) problem with Niners before.
    I also think the burden should've fallen on Jenson's shoulder, especially considering they installed your dropper and they probably have a better path of communication with Niner as a re-seller than you as an end-user.
    Hope you find an acceptable resolution.
    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

  29. #29
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    I'm tired of these two threads. It seems there's only a few people that understand the issue is with assembly and not with Niner. Yes, it sucks but there was nothing wrong with the frame when he received it. The seatpost moved freely. Period. The carbon frame didn't fail in any way.

    Blaming Niner on any level is ridiculous. If you paid for assembly from Jenson, and the seatpost was installed when it arrived, then they are to blame. If you had paid for final assembly at your LBS then the blame would land on them, again not Niner's fault. But that's not what happened here.

    It seems obvious to me that the assembly mechanic just forgot to use Fiber Grip. Mistakes happen. There was no lubrication and the seatpost corroded inside the frame. Plain and simple. The OP has ignored all the rational posts that explain that fact and only focusing on how he got screwed.

    It's all written in plain English. The two opposing explanations from Niner and Jenson tell the story.

    I also think it's BS that Niner kept your frame, but that's another matter.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'm tired of these two threads. It seems there's only a few people that understand the issue is with assembly and not with Niner. Yes, it sucks but there was nothing wrong with the frame when he received it. The seatpost moved freely. Period. The carbon frame didn't fail in any way.

    Blaming Niner on any level is ridiculous. If you paid for assembly from Jenson, and the seatpost was installed when it arrived, then they are to blame. If you had paid for final assembly at your LBS then the blame would land on them, again not Niner's fault. But that's not what happened here.

    It seems obvious to me that the assembly mechanic just forgot to use Fiber Grip. Mistakes happen. There was no lubrication and the seatpost corroded inside the frame. Plain and simple. The OP has ignored all the rational posts that explain that fact and only focusing on how he got screwed.

    It's all written in plain English. The two opposing explanations from Niner and Jenson tell the story.

    I also think it's BS that Niner kept your frame, but that's another matter.
    I honestly don't know. I do think Niner has some seat tube issues. I have a buddy whose seat tube just snapped between the stays and the top tube for no apparent reason, there was no visible damage to the outer layer. They were quick to request that frame too. If something like that can happen I could see an internal rupture trapping a seatpost.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I honestly don't know. I do think Niner has some seat tube issues. I have a buddy whose seat tube just snapped between the stays and the top tube for no apparent reason, there was no visible damage to the outer layer. They were quick to request that frame too. If something like that can happen I could see an internal rupture trapping a seatpost.
    I broke three frames last year. Two steel and one aluminum. Shit happens.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I broke three frames last year. Two steel and one aluminum. Shit happens.
    Congratulations??? You riding like a pinball or a heavy handed bull in a china shop has absolutely zero to do with A. a stress break on a non-load bearing portion of a frame B. same non-load bearing portion trapping a seatpost. Nice non sequitur though.

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Congratulations??? You riding like a pinball or a heavy handed bull in a china shop has absolutely zero to do with A. a stress break on a non-load bearing portion of a frame B. same non-load bearing portion trapping a seatpost. Nice non sequitur though.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    hah hah ! Well, that and I guess from his perspective, he has a lot more bike drama to be tired of than the op on this thread.

    Still, to wrap it up as Niner screwed up by taking the frame (whatever mystery happened to it) versus Jenson not standing up for the customer is a simple, condensed version of a bike owner venting frustration being stuck in the middle.
    Kinda where is started.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  34. #34
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    At Niner, we’re always bummed when someone can’t ride. Being riders ourselves, we know time off the bike is much less fun than time on the bike. So, when it comes to our warranty process, we take it seriously.
    In our warranty policy, we state:
    “Niner is a company of cyclists who believe in the products we produce. We engineer our products to offer the best ride and we back them up with the best service and support possible.

    Niner warrants that all of our products are free from manufacturing and material defects for 5 years from the original purchase date. We do require proof of purchase through an authorized dealer or retailer to process a claim. Second hand owners are not covered under our warranty policy.
    Use of our products as intended is the only limitation of warranty. Racing and hard riding are covered under our 5-year warranty. Niner does not cover normal wear and tear or damage from abuse, misuse, modification of the product, or improper installation/maintenance. Niner does not provide replacement parts when frame or component standards change on a new revision to a frame/component.”

    Warranty claims are denied for the following reasons:
    1. Damage is not due to a manufacturing or material defect.
    2. A rider is not the original owner or there is no proof of purchase.
    3. The frame is no longer under warranty, as the purchase falls outside of the period of coverage.

    More specifically, the warranty process for this case followed the following timeline:


    Sept. 7th-
    • The rider sent a warranty request directly to [email protected]
    • Because he was located locally (Denver), he was directed to our Niner Factory Store to submit his claim.
    • A claim was submitted from the Niner Factory Store with images of the damage, proof of purchase and the rider’s contact information.
    • The case was created and denied by the warranty department based on the images that were provided. The rider was approved for a “crash replacement” front triangle and Niner agreed to make an exception to our policy and ship the frame directly to his home.
    • After the agreement was made the rider expressed in an email, “This problem is not my fault… not saying it is yours (Niner). How exactly do I fix it as cheaply as possible for me?”
    • It was explained that the issue that he was experiencing was not believed to be related to a manufacturing defect.



    Sept. 8th-
    • The rider agreed to the purchase of the front triangle ($975 plus shipping)
    • Order was processed and shipped.
    • The rider contacted Jenson and to provide them with a copy of his sales receipt for the replacement FT, stating “Below is a receipt from Niner bikes for a new front triangle. It is my belief that Jenson USA is responsible due to improper installation of the seat post. I am seeking remediation from Jenson USA. Please let me know what you propose.”
    • Warranty rep. from Jenson agreed to escalate the situation and states that "We will need to have the old front triangle and seat post saved and sent in as it will need to be inspected. Once it has been swapped out please hold onto it until we know if it needs to be sent to Niner for inspection.”
    • Jenson tells the rider that they are not agreeing to pay for the frame, but they did offer to replace his seat post.




    Sept. 15th-
    • The rider reached out to Jenson and Niner stating that the frame was being sent in.



    Sept. 18th-
    • Frame was delivered to Niner.


    Sept. 20th-
    • After receiving the frame in question, and at the request of the rider, a thorough evaluation was done to determine if the frozen seatpost was a warranty issue covered under our warranty policy.
    • Our evaluation required us to cut the frame open to examine what was causing the issue given that the seatpost had been broken and/or cut off leaving us no option for removal. After cutting the frame apart, it was effectively “destroyed” but it remains here at our facility, today.
    • In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we’ve learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate.
    • With the frame cut open, our team found heavy corrosion which caused the seatpost to become stuck. We do not consider corrosion a manufacturing (or material) defect on carbon frames and/or components. Corrosion on carbon frame is due to insufficient maintenance.

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-11079-7-.jpg

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-11079-6-.jpg

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-11079-4-.jpg

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-img_5859.jpg

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-img_5858.jpg

      Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...-11079-2-.jpg
    • The rider contacted Jenson, “… it looks like a prep issue during the build. Hope to hear from you soon in regards to a solution. Thank you both for working with me.”



    Oct. 9th
    • Jenson responded to the rider’s request for them to assume responsibility:
    • Hey, -----, sorry it took a few days to get back to you about the ruling from Niner. We have read the email from -------- at Niner. Jenson USA agrees with Niner’s response that this is a maintenance issue and Jenson USA is not responsible for the replacement of the front triangle. The rep at Niner does not suggest that the post was stuck due to a build issue, he states “We have no reason to assume that the post was installed incorrectly.” Jenson agrees that the post may have been over-inserted into the frame which is not something that would be the result of the build process here. As for the use of carbon paste, the inspection by Niner was not conclusive, however our build process here is quality checked and Jenson USA can say with confidence that the carbon prep was used.”


    Jenson also notes.
    • “We DO use carbon paste on all of our assemblies. HOWEVER, carbon paste is not an anti-corrosive—it is there as a friction-adding agent.”
    • “While we did not offer to replace his frame—we did make efforts to help him out (for instance, we gave him a new dropper post). Much of the problem is that he went out and bought a new mainframe at retail and then tried to suggest that we should pay him for it.”
    • All of this could have been avoided with proper care and handling during the 6 months that he enjoyed the bike.
    • No store with any objective opinion would indicate that an issue with a 6-month-old bike was “build related
    • We have sold many hundreds of bikes together of the years—you make a great product, and we handle them with care. This is the first such issue that we have shared. Try as I might, I can’t find anything that either team could have done to prevent this gentleman’s situation.


    Oct. 10th -
    • The rider threatened a claim with the BBB.
    • The rider requested that his frame be returned to him.
    • At this point the case was moved out of the hands of our warranty department and communication ceased due to pending litigation.



    As we worked through this claim, we support our initial evaluation that the seized post was a result of corrosion and not a manufacturing or material defect. The incident falls under our warranty policy as damage caused due to “improper installation/maintenance.” This is not a manufacturing defect, as we found no structural issues inside the frame. Routine maintenance, inclusive of inspecting the seatpost, is a responsibility of the rider and/or a professional bike mechanic.

    Niner stands behind our product and our warranty process. Our Rider Services team works diligently to ensure riders receive the individualized attention they deserve. We are sorry the process has taken as long as it has and escalated to this level. However, we wanted to make sure we gave this claim a thorough evaluation to make sure we didn’t miss something through the digital warranty process. As riders ourselves we do everything possible to support riders within the boundaries of our warranty policy

    Niner Bikes
    .........

    Peace,
    Niner Bikes

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  35. #35
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    At the end of the day, Niner invested a ton of time to get to the bottom of this. I'm freakin' impressed.

    Shipping frame, engineer to cut it open, inspection, time emailing, and now litigation. Probably would have been easier and saved a ton of time/money to just kick him down a front triangle.

    The bike industry is truly bewildering.

    Best of luck to both parties on a solution.

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    Yeah great, however NINER you finished putting the frame in the grave. I don't do carbon, I will definitely think twice before buying from either company involved, wow and only six months old. Freaking shameful
    Last edited by dezzrat1; 11-15-2017 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Typo

  37. #37
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    In hindsight, it was our mistake
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:32 AM.

  38. #38
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    Hopefully this will help you all make informed purchase decisions in the future.
    Note to self: don't sweat down seat post tube.....
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  39. #39
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    After receiving the frame in question, and at the request of the rider, a thorough evaluation was done to determine if the frozen seatpost was a warranty issue covered under our warranty policy.

    Our evaluation required us to cut the frame open to examine what was causing the issue given that the seatpost had been broken and/or cut off leaving us no option for removal. After cutting the frame apart, it was effectively “destroyed” but it remains here at our facility, today.

    In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we’ve learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate.
    What was the outcome of Niner destroying your frame without your consent? While its a lesson learned for Niner, they owned up to the mistake and should take care of the customer in this case.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Fairly accurate....
    I hope that everyone on this boards takeaway is that after only 6 months of use both Niner and Jenson USA refused to help a client with a catastrophic failure on a $4k bike.

    This is even after they failed to understand what or why it happened.

    They simply said it's a maintenance issue and stuck it to the consumer.

    Hopefully this will help you all make informed purchase decisions in the future.
    My takeaway from this thread is that you fail to understand logic, and that at minimum SOME of the responsibility falls on YOU.

    I think Niner's evaluation is accurate and that they did you a favor by offering you a crash replacement. I think Jenson settled any discrepancy by giving you a dropper.

    You've received a reasonable offer from both, which you accepted, and you have no legal recourse. Because of this, the issue is settled and you have no case against either. Frankly I hope you spend another $3,000 on legal fees before you figure that out.
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  41. #41
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    [QUOTE=*OneSpeed*;13420329]My takeaway
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    You may be right. I don't think so...but maybe....
    This is why there are other means of solving these problems. I doubt this will need to go to small claims, but it is ridiculous to think I would have to spend anything on legal fees if it did. Also they ignored my BBB claim which I also think speaks volumes about Niner as a company.

    Niners evaluation shows corrosion. The post above was the only time that has been revealed by Niner. Previously they said they couldn't tell why it was stuck which let their partner J enson USA off the hook.

    I think you miss the point that the bike was only 6 months old. This never should have happened in that amount of time.

    What would you have done? I felt I had no choice but to buy the frame so that I could send them the defective frame for evaluation. I suppose i could have had my bike shop strip down the frame and just hold on to the parts for 2 months while Niner evaluated my claim....

    You are of course entitled to your opinion....but seriously...how would you have handled it?
    I think you missed the part where they clearly showed there was no manufacturing defect.
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  43. #43
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    [QUOTE=*OneSpeed*;13420393]I think you
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  44. #44
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    Not a Niner owner and after reading this popcorn fueled debacle, I probably won't ever be...

    The fact the Niner response posted earlier was 20+ items long, wreaks to high heaven.

    I had issue with a freehub on an Easton Heist wheel i.e. wiggly freehub/cassette.

    I purchased it from CRC, I sent it back to CRC stating what was wrong i.e. filled in a Warranty Claim form.

    They suggested it was bearings i.e. a maintenance issue and not warrantable. The wheel was 8 or 9 rides old. So that didn't float with me.

    They sent it back to Easton. I chased up CRC after an extended time period. CRC stated it should've have been sorted by now. Easton (eventually) returned my wheel with new bearings & new freehub installed.

    Maybe 5 or 6 emails on my part. The time frame it took was the must frustrating part i.e. almost 4 months. A 3rd of the way through the process, I rebuilt another rear wheel I had sitting around. Just so I could continue to ride the bike in question.

    In the end, CS provided by CRC was pretty good & the fact that Easton came to the party with new parts was much appreciated. Although not receiving some sort of email from the source, did strike me as odd.

    Maybe going through Jenson in the first instance would have provided a similar outcome.

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    See...i don't think they showed that clearly at all
    What if the corrosion was due to the manufacturing process...or occurred during the manufacturing process? I do know there is nothing I could have done through normal use to cause that level of corrosion in 6 months
    Perhaps you should educate yourself on what corrosion is, specifically galvanic corrosion, and how it applies to metals in contact with carbon fiber. It doesn't "occur" during the manufacturing process.
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  46. #46
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    I know this can be seen from two sides (or I guess three). Me personally, I'm sick to death of the bike industry and its attitude about products that fail in a shockingly short time period. It is not the customer's fault. They didn't abuse it. They didn't exceed any reasonable written or industry standard service interval. It failed because two significant businesses failed to make it or lube it in such a way that it wouldn't corrode to failure in half a year.

    So was there any information provided to the consumer that indicated that the seat post should be serviced at regular intervals? Was this provided from Jenson or Niner? So a bike was sold with the intent of a carbon on aluminum interface that allegedly their is documentation that indicates that it needs lube. The manufacture doesn't lube it a the factory, and they indicate that lube is required. The dealer indicates that lube wasn't used, but carbon assembly paste was used. Now the owner is out $900 and someone couldn't be bothered to tell him that the only way they could figure out how to get a seat post out for inspection was to destroy a front triangle. I could have removed that post in a few hours of work in my garage, little piece of post at a time. Spending 15 minutes to slice someone else's property to junk wasn't very creative, and a whole lot more rude since it was on someone else's dime.

    So what is it industry wizards? Does it need lube, or does it need paste? And by whom and how often?

    Jensen has been great on every order I have ever placed with them, and it has been many. I can see I need to re-think things if I order pricey stuff.

  47. #47
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    So. Let me get this straight? Niner denies the claim based on photos set in. But has to cut the frame apart to make sure it wasn’t a defect? After they already denied the claim. Seems to me they should have waited till they got the frame before making a decision


    Like I said earlier. Spend dollars to save pennies How many potential customers and return customers have they lost over the price of a front triangle.

    Wish I would have read this thread before buying my new Jet. Would have went Pivot or SC.

    Now excuse me. I need to check my seatpost.

  48. #48
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    While the timeline and details in Niner's response would be helpful for litigation, IMO, it is an epic marketing and public relations failure.

    Niner- Here is a free tip for future public relations challenges- If you’re defending, you’re losing.

  49. #49
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    So people complain when a company doesn't chime in with issues like this, and when they do and provide EXTREME detail people still complain?

    I for one am happy to see pics from the inside of the seat tube. Could they have used a bore scope with a 90* lens and not cut the frame, maybe. But, my take away from this is that even though it's plastic I'll still have to put some grease on the bottom of the post.

    But, won't just using normal grease cause an aluminum post to slip inside the tube? Would carbon paste with the grit inside of it be better?
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    So people complain when a company doesn't chime in with issues like this, and when they do and provide EXTREME detail people still complain?

    I for one am happy to see pics from the inside of the seat tube. Could they have used a bore scope with a 90* lens and not cut the frame, maybe. But, my take away from this is that even though it's plastic I'll still have to put some grease on the bottom of the post.

    But, won't just using normal grease cause an aluminum post to slip inside the tube? Would carbon paste with the grit inside of it be better?
    People aren't complaining about the amount of detail. It's the way they handled the whole situation that was wrong. Particularly around destroying the bike without notifying the owner. My snap judgment is if he goes to small claims Niner will be giving him a free front triangle.

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    I don't see this as a manufacturing defect but clearly a assembly defect with lame feedback from Jensen feeding off of niners evaluation. I think jensen should've ate it and took care of the issue. However niner with there own realization and admission of their fault, (cutting the op, frame up without consent) now need to step up and refund the guy and call it a day.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post

    ...
    But, won't just using normal grease cause an aluminum post to slip inside the tube? Would carbon paste with the grit inside of it be better?
    Yes. I'm a coach for a kids team. I constantly see posts sinking when they are greased, especially greased with excessive grease. This is amplified by dropper seat posts that cannot have over tightened seat post clamps or warranty voiding malfunction or failure can occur. A carbon frame has the same warranty voiding failure if the clamp is over tightened.

    To make matters worse, raw carbon fiber to aluminum interfaces corrode the aluminum very rapidly. A fact that is not typically mentioned in the service info liability laden manual that comes with each bike. Yes, it does often say to use lube or paste, but not how often or how rapid and damaging the corrosion can be. To make matters even worse, typical "carbon and assembly compound", such as Park Tool's "SAC-2" do not state anywhere on the package that they are a lube or that they prevent corrosion of any kind. It says "grip between two slippery surfaces".

    I can also say that I work for a company that makes one off carbon fiber parts. The typical industry method is to isolate carbon fiber and aluminum (or other metals). This is especially true when the surface isn't well sealed with resin (look at the pictures). Grease or goo is only used as a last resort in this interface because it doesn't last long. I don't know how many times we have to go through aluminum lugs corroding, seat posts corroding, and wheel nipple corrosion to know that this is a problem that needs to be solved at the time the bike is engineered and manufactured.

    The Niner Jensen team has all but admitted fault in their posted exchange. Niner says corrosion caused by lack maintenance, Jensen says they used a product during assembly that doesn't prevent corrosion.

    The average non mechanic rider doesn't have a intricate understanding of the carbon aluminum interface when they buy an expensive bike. While many will follow a maintenance schedule perfectly if all of this is explained at the time of purchase, or in provided documentation.

    It is not a great way to sell bikes to state "some of the carbon on this bike isn't isolated from the metal on this frame. We use grease (or goo) to prevent corrosion. It can dry up or not work and wreck your frame and void your warranty in a few months. So lube it frequently." ... "By the way you will need to pay to have this done or buy a torque wrench and use it or it will also void your warranty".

    The OP got a $900 course in how to maintain a carbon fiber bike. The industry seems fine with that method.

  53. #53
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    Just to
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  54. #54
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    Looking at those photos I can't help wondering if there was a problem with the anodization of the seat post that caused this problem? One of the key reasons aluminum is anodized is to prevent oxidization/corrosion... but if it was faulty perhaps this allowed the process to begin. I also wonder if the gritty nature of carbon grip paste could, with repeated movement, scratch through anodization enough to accelerate the process?

    For what its worth, I had a 2012 Jet 9 RDO that lasted 4 1/2 years before being replaced due to cracks that developed in the seat tube near the front derailleur. I never used grease nor carbon paste on the Thomson seatpost and there was no signs of corrosion when I removed it this year. Thomson is known for great quality and I've found their anodization to be probably some of toughest out there, so this may have saved me.

    As a current owner of two Niner carbon frames, you can be sure I'll be keeping an eye on the seatposts now!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    See...i don't think they showed that clearly at all
    What if the corrosion was due to the manufacturing process...or occurred during the manufacturing process? I do know there is nothing I could have done through normal use to cause that level of corrosion in 6 months
    Doing nothing adds to the likelihood of corrosion. Regular maintenance could have prevented it.
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  56. #56
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    I don't use grease or carbon paste on my seat post either. Never had a problem, but after being in a rain storm I pull the post and wipe it dry as it definitely gets wet. On the other hand, I have had a Maxle front axle corrode where it contacts my front shock and now put a thing coat of grease on it every so often.

    This is just an unfortunate scenario for everyone

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    I haven't read all of the language in Niner's warranty, but I imagine when the OP made a warranty request, he relinquished some rights by sending it in for the process. Niner had their own store send pics initially so they had an idea from their perspective of the cause. The OP assumed their would be warranty coverage. Niner did their investigation and rendered their decision. I bet their is language that wouldn't require them to return the frame or protect it from destroying it in their investigation. By sending it in, the OP likely gave some sort of implied consent for an investigation to be done even if the frame was destroyed. The answer didn't come out in his favor. IMO, Niner did what they should have done although that in itself created a PR issue. Jenson likely is the one to blame. The OP never thought it would go this far so the idea that he could analyze the presence of carbon paste or anti corrosion, etc isn't feasible. That should have been done after initial discussion with Jenson. I would pursue Jensons claim that they did use carbon paste and figure out what kind and what they advertise that will do. If you find the brand is a anti corrosive agent too (as Niner implied was needed) then I would find out what the reapplication suggestions are by the manufacturer. He may find that 6 months is or is not consistent with their recommendations. Then use that against Jenson.

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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    Doing nothing adds to the likelihood of corrosion. Regular maintenance could have prevented it.
    I've owned or wrenched on an insane number of bikes. I've never seen a seatpost corrode in six months. OP must be swimming next to his bike in the Amazon jungle or something

  59. #59
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    Niner
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:35 AM.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Niner won't discuss anything with me because of "pending litigation", what a joke...I told them if they didnt work towards a resolution I would go to Small Claims Court...
    Nothing surprising about that, the last thing they want to do now is to possibly provide you with something that could be used against them by you, nothing personal.

    FYI, don't expect a Christmas Card either.

    I'm no Materials Expert but corrosion in 6 months WITHOUT carbon paste I can see, but with carbon paste?
    I still lay the blame @ Jenson's feet.
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  61. #61
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    So even if Niner wins in court. Niner has already lost. Fools.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    So even if Niner wins in court. Niner has already lost. Fools.
    Exactly.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    My takeaway from this thread is that you fail to understand logic, and that at minimum SOME of the responsibility falls on YOU.

    I think Niner's evaluation is accurate and that they did you a favor by offering you a crash replacement. I think Jenson settled any discrepancy by giving you a dropper.

    You've received a reasonable offer from both, which you accepted, and you have no legal recourse. Because of this, the issue is settled and you have no case against either. Frankly I hope you spend another $3,000 on legal fees before you figure that out.
    I disagree with a lot of this, agree with some of it. I don't think the offers were that reasonable, but the OP has fault in managing this issue by accepting those offers when what he really wanted was to be made whole.

    Niner's statement provides a nice timeline of what went down, but there are some things in there that can't be taken just at face value. I also see where the OP made some mistakes in dealing with Niner and Jenson. Here are some of my thoughts on this, in timeline order:

    The OP agreed to purchase a front triangle for $975 plus shipping way too soon, only a day after initial contact. If you are trying to get something warrantied that you clearly don't think is your fault (and I agree), you don't buy a new part and hope that someone will pay you back later. That reduces the incentive for Niner or Jenson to make things right. The crash-replacement price basically is free for Niner to offer (they might be even making a little money), and the new seat post cost Jenson half of the retail price, so they basically hope you would accept almost nothing and would just go away. The OP fell in that trap. You need to hold off accepting half measures until you get what you want.

    Niner said the issue is not a manufacturing defect. That might be true. But aluminum dropper posts are going to be used most of those frames. How is avoiding corrosion communicated to the buyers? If my car owner's manual doesn't have stated oil change intervals, you'd blame the manufacturer for everyone running their engines dead. When early carbon frames failed due to corrosion between aluminum lugs and carbon tubes, later ones had fiberglass insulating the carbon from the aluminum lugs. Is it a design defect not to have something like that to avoid galvanic corrosion if there is no stated seatpost lube interval?

    This part from Sept. 8:
    -Warranty rep. from Jenson agreed to escalate the situation and states that "We will need to have the old front triangle and seat post saved and sent in as it will need to be inspected. Once it has been swapped out please hold onto it until we know if it needs to be sent to Niner for inspection.”
    -Jenson tells the rider that they are not agreeing to pay for the frame, but they did offer to replace his seat post.


    At this point, you almost have to ask why send in the frame? Niner has already denied a claim and has money from the OP for a new frame, and Jenson is not agreeing to pay for the frame.

    This part:
    Sept 20
    -In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we’ve learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate.

    Niner messed up here. Oops, but we don't owe you anything? The seatpost could have been cut out from the inside with a hacksaw blade or other tedious methods. Not the way to do it if you are evaluating a frame and you're giving an employee a limited about of time to do it. But if they weren't planning on honoring a warranty, and just doing it to prove that there wasn't a manufacturing defect, I'm sure the OP would have liked to have known. He could have taken to more resourceful people who could have removed the post (lots of internet resources for DIY too), saving the frame.

    This part:

    Oct. 9th
    -Jenson responded to the rider’s request for them to assume responsibility:
    Hey, -----, sorry it took a few days to get back to you about the ruling from Niner. We have read the email from -------- at Niner. Jenson USA agrees with Niner’s response that this is a maintenance issue and Jenson USA is not responsible for the replacement of the front triangle. The rep at Niner does not suggest that the post was stuck due to a build issue, he states “We have no reason to assume that the post was installed incorrectly.” Jenson agrees that the post may have been over-inserted into the frame which is not something that would be the result of the build process here. As for the use of carbon paste, the inspection by Niner was not conclusive, however our build process here is quality checked and Jenson USA can say with confidence that the carbon prep was used

    -Jenson also notes.
    “We DO use carbon paste on all of our assemblies. HOWEVER, carbon paste is not an anti-corrosive—it is there as a friction-adding agent.”
    “While we did not offer to replace his frame—we did make efforts to help him out (for instance, we gave him a new dropper post). Much of the problem is that he went out and bought a new mainframe at retail and then tried to suggest that we should pay him for it.”
    All of this could have been avoided with proper care and handling during the 6 months that he enjoyed the bike.
    No store with any objective opinion would indicate that an issue with a 6-month-old bike was “build related
    We have sold many hundreds of bikes together of the years—you make a great product, and we handle them with care. This is the first such issue that we have shared. Try as I might, I can’t find anything that either team could have done to prevent this gentleman’s situation.



    From the photos, it looks like the seatpost had at some point been inserted down to the thickened pivot reinforcement, but was stuck at a higher position. Therefore over insertion was not the reason the post was stuck.

    Jenson has no reason to assume that the seatpost was installed correctly in this particular case, even if they have procedures written up and checklists. Mistakes happen. Sometimes people don't fill out checklists (if they exist in this case) as they go, and just check every off at the end. In my business you have scientists/engineers/geologists go out and collect samples, and sometimes they miss something/take shortcuts even though they are supposedly following procedures. If professionals can make errors, bike assemblers can.

    Niner said that the presence of carbon paste was inconclusive. That means they looked, but didn't see any. It's possible the carbon paste was not applied. This could be checked, even lab tested. The paste doesn't just disappear into thin air in an enclosed space like a frame. If any was applied by Jenson, there should be some residue and grit, even if weathered and washed down towards the BB. You could find out what carbon paste Jenson uses and have a sample taken from the old frame to see if was really applied.

    Jenson's note that carbon paste is not an anti-corrosive is interesting, and goes back to the manufacturer needing to have a statement in the owner's manual about what is an acceptable interval to check your seatpost. And what are you supposed to use then if carbon paste was actually used and corrosion happens in 6 months?

    Jenson suggested that a large part of the problem was that the OP went and bought a frame at retail. I agree that's a problem, but minor. Jenson could have got a replacement frame from Niner for less.

    What is the "proper care and handling during the 6 months" that Jenson is suggesting that the OP should have done? Do they send a warning/recommendation to buyers with carbon frames/aluminum seatposts to check their seatpost weekly for corrosion? Monthly? I doubt more than 10% check their seatposts even every 6 months.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Niner won't discuss anything with me because of "pending litigation", what a joke...I told them if they didnt work towards a resolution I would go to Small Claims Court...
    You should. XCandrew makes a great point about the lack of any warning or indication for maintenance, and in any case 6 months is a ridiculously short maintenance interval for lubing a seat post.

    I just got a new bike (Santa Cruz) this year, set up the dropper seat post (which I lubed because it was dry despite the shop's checklist saying they greased it), and rode it for 6 months without touching it. I checked it last week and it was perfectly fine with no corrosion at all. Either Jenson is wrong about lubing the post (most likely) or there was something wrong with the way this bike was manufactured.

    Besides that, if you file suit, it will easily cost them more than the $900ish for the triangle just to hire a lawyer to handle the thing.

  65. #65
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    [QUOTE=kpdemello;13422242]You should
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Yep....
    I do not plan on giving up until I have exhausted all means of dispute resolution.

    One random thought that keeps bouncing around in my head...
    If galvanic corrosion is a known problem and the manufacturer ignores mitigation of the problem through the manufacturing process wouldn't that mean that it is an inherent defect in the frame?

    How easy would it be to simply put a thin non reactive coating on carbon seatpost to avoid this known issue...

    Also....
    I have never seen a published maintenance schedule for a seat post...simply doesn't exist so for Niner to say this is a maintenance issue and not a warranty defect is just dumb.

    Niner....yeah you guys....come through for your customers....i have been reading so many posts about poor customer service from you since this debacle started it amazes me. You have a nice product...i like the bike....but if you don't provide service after the sale you will go by the wayside like Titus did.
    PM or email me if you want to discuss this. I have been reasonable throughout this process but understand that I will not give up until I have exhausted all avenues of dispute mediation.
    I think are done... You accepted offers from both businesses. Court will be as simple as that. Judge will ask you if you accepted their offer. They offered and you accepted. Case closed. Small claims court doesn't have attorneys. As far as the return if the frame, I bet you find that by sending it in, blah, blah, blah, you gave them permission to investigate how they saw fit. Sorry it likely will just be a waste of your time now.

    I can't believe that you can't talk to them and have them refund you some portion of the front triangle price.

    Also know that if they want to get hard on you, they will pull every post from this forum and check for accuracy. Then turn around and file a large suit against you for slander and liable. Careful, you media attacks may get you in trouble. I just know that your story has some inconsistencies throughout your posts from the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    I think are done... You accepted offers from both businesses. Court will be as simple as that. Judge will ask you if you accepted their offer. They offered and you accepted. Case closed. Small claims court doesn't have attorneys. As far as the return if the frame, I bet you find that by sending it in, blah, blah, blah, you gave them permission to investigate how they saw fit. Sorry it likely will just be a waste of your time now.

    I can't believe that you can't talk to them and have them refund you some portion of the front triangle price.

    Also know that if they want to get hard on you, they will pull every post from this forum and check for accuracy. Then turn around and file a large suit against you for slander and liable. Careful, you media attacks may get you in trouble. I just know that your story has some inconsistencies throughout your posts from the beginning.

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    And if they do that publicizing biker sued by company for being unhappy they destroyed bike without permission is neither libel or slander. 'tis a slippery slope.

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    An agreement was reached????

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezzrat1 View Post
    An agreement was reached????
    Nope.....
    Just felt threatened...so I removed my posts
    Last edited by WP Local; 11-17-2017 at 05:33 PM.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    I think are done... You accepted offers from both businesses. Court will be as simple as that. Judge will ask you if you accepted their offer. They offered and you accepted. Case closed. Small claims court doesn't have attorneys. As far as the return if the frame, I bet you find that by sending it in, blah, blah, blah, you gave them permission to investigate how they saw fit.
    Also know that if they want to get hard on you, they will pull every post from this forum and check for accuracy. Then turn around and file a large suit against you for slander and liable. Careful, you media attacks may get you in trouble. I just know that your story has some inconsistencies throughout your posts from the beginning.

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    Complete horse shit from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    Complete horse shit from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
    Time will tell. And what is your expertise?

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    About 12 years as a litigator. Yours?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    Complete horse shit from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
    Got my attention though....
    I don't trust Niner....they lied to me before....

    Anyone want too buy a Jet9 RDO with i
    upgrades?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    Complete horse shit from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
    I wasn't thinking this harshly, but I was thinking it was nonsense. Jurisdictions may vary, but I've read this whole thing because it interests me. Slight inconsistency is a far cry from defamatory. My opinion is that the OP has remained reasonably calm and mature, at least on the forum.

    I will say for me, as I learn more about the companies I buy bikes from the list of companies I will do business with gets shorter.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Got my attention though....
    I don't trust Niner....they lied to me before....

    Anyone want too buy a Jet9 RDO with i
    upgrades?
    Ah brutha, should have kept the posts up. There's no slander or libel here - Niner ain't going to sue you after all this. I thought you were doing folks a service sharing your experience.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    I wasn't thinking this harshly, but I was thinking it was nonsense. Jurisdictions may vary, but I've read this whole thing because it interests me. Slight inconsistency is a far cry from defamatory. My opinion is that the OP has remained reasonably calm and mature, at least on the forum.

    I will say for me, as I learn more about the companies I buy bikes from the list of companies I will do business with gets shorter.
    Thanks...I am a middle aged professional with a life outside of this drama. I removed my previous texts because of the comment about getting personaly sued.

    Cycling is my passion and has enriched my life physically and emotionally. I used to ride Titus and was so proud of the brand and used to tout why I loved them to anyone who would listen. I was crushed when Titus went out of business because I just bought my first Carbon Fiber M TB, a Racer X (that weighed just over 25 lbs.!)

    I bought a Trek after but just didn't have the passion for the brand that I had with Titus....great bike but I just didn't connect with it like I did the Titus.

    Then I got the Niner and the passion was back! I upgraded the handlebars to Niner RDO carbon bars, followed Niner on Facebook and MTBR. I even began to shop Niner Road bikes as my 2012 Madone may be due for an upgrade soon!

    But than this happened....i DID fully expect to be taken care of....after all the bike was so new and they seemed to have a great warranty so I expected the best when I bought the front triangle in order to ship them the defective one.

    What I got was nothing short than a kick in the nutz.

    This whole thing has been surreal to me.

    In my line of work you take care of your customers....not just because of their past business but for the relationship that builds and develops new business.

    My Niner is for sale now because of this....I recently did a multi day trip on the White Rim in Moab and after telling my story so many times I realized that my love of M TB is tainted by this bike. It is like it has bad mojo...

    So to hell with Niner. Maybe that saying can replace "pedal damn it"

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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Thanks...I am a middle aged professional with a life outside of this drama. I removed my previous texts because of the comment about getting personaly sued.

    Cycling is my passion and has enriched my life physically and emotionally. I used to ride Titus and was so proud of the brand and used to tout why I loved them to anyone who would listen. I was crushed when Titus went out of business because I just bought my first Carbon Fiber M TB, a Racer X (that weighed just over 25 lbs.!)

    I bought a Trek after but just didn't have the passion for the brand that I had with Titus....great bike but I just didn't connect with it like I did the Titus.

    Then I got the Niner and the passion was back! I upgraded the handlebars to Niner RDO carbon bars, followed Niner on Facebook and MTBR. I even began to shop Niner Road bikes as my 2012 Madone may be due for an upgrade soon!

    But than this happened....i DID fully expect to be taken care of....after all the bike was so new and they seemed to have a great warranty so I expected the best when I bought the front triangle in order to ship them the defective one.

    What I got was nothing short than a kick in the nutz.

    This whole thing has been surreal to me.

    In my line of work you take care of your customers....not just because of their past business but for the relationship that builds and develops new business.

    My Niner is for sale now because of this....I recently did a multi day trip on the White Rim in Moab and after telling my story so many times I realized that my love of M TB is tainted by this bike. It is like it has bad mojo...

    So to hell with Niner. Maybe that saying can replace "pedal damn it"
    Bloody hell fella, I know how it feels having had faulty fuelling on a motorcycle which in the end cause me an off on road.

    was a bloody stress when the dealer nor manufacturer takes responsibility for a dodgy build especiallywhen I found out it was well known on forums that they have fuelling issues.

    anyway I signed a gagging order in exchange for parts needed to fix it.

    bastad of a sitiation I’ll tell ya.

    think yourself lucky !
    Riding bikes means life behind bars, except no TV :-d

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    What just happened? OP pulled the thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    What just happened? OP pulled the thread?
    Felt threatned....just wanted other people's opinions didn't want to risk getting sued.

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    It is easy enough for us arm chair QBs to reassure you that you will not get sued, so I can understand why you removed the posts. Still, you don't ave anything to really worry about. It would be an incredibly short-sighted and foolish move for Niner to sue you. It would end up as bad or worse than Specialized going after the person or shop and then the CEO issuing an apology.

    The smartest and easiest solution here, by far, and the lack of it really says something about both Niner and Jenson in my opinion, is to compensate you for all of this garbage. I cannot fathom the decision making that lead to the lengthy post from Niner? It is revealing on many levels.

    Good luck to you, and since you loved Titus consider a Pivot for your next purchases because the guy who made Titus what it was, is the owner of Pivot.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Got my attention though....
    I don't trust Niner....they lied to me before....
    I don't blame you but you really have nothing to worry about. Not only would it be a huge PR nightmare for any company to sue their own customer over a customer relations issue, they would open themselves up to all kinds of legal retribution. People have been coming to forums like this and bitching about customer relations issues since the internet has been invented. Don't sweat it.

  82. #82
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    Is Chris Sugai the president of Niner again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Is Chris Sugai the president of Niner again?
    do not know , but looked it up and Mike Gann, who was promoted to President in 2016 was recently hired by LOOK as a VP. Maybe that is why it took so long to get back to you? as well as the drafting of the lengthy response.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    do not know , but looked it up and Mike Gann, who was promoted to President in 2016 was recently hired by LOOK as a VP. Maybe that is why it took so long to get back to you? as well as the drafting of the lengthy response.


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    Strange....
    FYI, They never did get back to me after Oct 10. I learned more from what they wrote on this board than they ever directly communicated to me.

    From my standpoint I am still in limbo...that is why I am trying to find out who the new president of Niner is.

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    they did not reply to you directly? given the thread maybe they thought it did not matter? personal touch not a strength.


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    Have had many nightmare issues working with them as a dealer. We no longer sell the brand, they started out great but in the last few years the CS has really taken a slide, too bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Have had many nightmare issues working with them as a dealer. We no longer sell the brand, they started out great but in the last few years the CS has really taken a slide, too bad.
    I have heard this from 2 separate independent bike shops in Colorado, which is a shame because they are based in Ft. Collins, CO.

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    Honestly, just let it go.

    as for the paranoia of being sued.
    like mentioned above it would never happen.

    just leave it, you’ve had your response from them and offered a generous gift of a dropper by jenson.

    unfortunately in this life, there is no such thing as having your cake and eating it.

    let it be. Life’s too short.
    Riding bikes means life behind bars, except no TV :-d

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    This isn't meant to be a slam, just an observation, but...after reading this whole thread I see Niner had only one course of action; to replace your frame. Anything less results in a huge cyber dog-pile.

    Sorry dude, I feel bad for your problem but at what point does a manufacturer stop assuming all liability for their product (short of catastrophic failure)? Do they have the right to access something for themselves and determine if they are liable? Then if they determine they were not at fault that's not good enough? Obviously if they were not concerned about their PR they wouldn't have participated in this thread but if they did just say "screw it, give this guy a new frame", even if they didn't feel they were liable, there would be another guy right behind with a similar problem starting a new thread. It's a no win situation for them.

    If you bought the bike already assembled (Niner doesn't fully assemble) and rode it for months on end without issue YOU are as liable as anyone. These are mechanical toys. They require maintenance. The whole time you owned the bike you never pulled the seat post or even adjusted it up and down? After washing it or riding in the rain? If the frame cracked in half you'd have a valid concern and I'm sure it would be warrantied, but riding around for months and having corrosion due to moisture build up...sounds like a lack of maintenance.

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    ^You're high as a kite if you're saying it's all on the OP.

    I bet you could take your seatpost swimming every day for a year and it wouldn't be that bad. He rode the bike for ~6mo. I think people are missing that. If he didn't pull the seatpost for like....6 years, that'd be on him. But if your seatpost is corroding in the frame in six months, that's not great!

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    ^You're high as a kite if you're saying it's all on the OP.

    I bet you could take your seatpost swimming every day for a year and it wouldn't be that bad. He rode the bike for ~6mo. I think people are missing that. If he didn't pull the seatpost for like....6 years, that'd be on him. But if your seatpost is corroding in the frame in six months, that's not great!
    Maybe even a warranty issue....(just maybe.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by motox155 View Post
    This isn't meant to be a slam, just an observation, but...after reading this whole thread I see Niner had only one course of action; to replace your frame. Anything less results in a huge cyber dog-pile.

    Sorry dude, I feel bad for your problem but at what point does a manufacturer stop assuming all liability for their product (short of catastrophic failure)? Do they have the right to access something for themselves and determine if they are liable? Then if they determine they were not at fault that's not good enough? Obviously if they were not concerned about their PR they wouldn't have participated in this thread but if they did just say "screw it, give this guy a new frame", even if they didn't feel they were liable, there would be another guy right behind with a similar problem starting a new thread. It's a no win situation for them.

    If you bought the bike already assembled (Niner doesn't fully assemble) and rode it for months on end without issue YOU are as liable as anyone. These are mechanical toys. They require maintenance. The whole time you owned the bike you never pulled the seat post or even adjusted it up and down? After washing it or riding in the rain? If the frame cracked in half you'd have a valid concern and I'm sure it would be warrantied, but riding around for months and having corrosion due to moisture build up...sounds like a lack of maintenance.
    Your post along with the Xc guy in the other thread helped me understand Jenson's seemingly BS response. Jenson essentially said that it was user error due to lack of maintenance resulting in corrosion because Jenson always do the install correctly--every damn time (emphasis added).

    But then Jenson said carbon paste does not prevent corrosion.

    Essentially Jenson was saying "Even if we did it wrong on the install and forgot the carbon paste, which we did not, it does not matter because that stuff does not prevent corrosion. The only corrosion prevention is the user doing regular mainntenance"

    So in Jenson flawless logic they are being incredibly generous by offering him the free dropper post. It is like someone asked them for something free, the very thing you are concerned of regarding precedent, and they say "sure, no problema here is a freebie."

    According to Sheldon Brown page, grease should not be used on a carbon post as it may lead to swelling and stuckness or other issues.

    So the only cause of the corrosion over a 6 month period and the resulting worst stuck seatpost on the planet, was that the user did not periodically remove the post and wipe off all the water that was collecting or perhaps run a blow dryer on it?

    By the way, I am not arguing with you. rather, I feel like I have achieved some level of zen by wrapping my mind around their explanations some more.






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    So this is not a common problem. To me it was a freak event The safe business model from Niner would have been once they saw this whole thing start to go south and see how much negative press it was getting, would have been to step in. Stop the bleeding and step up and replace the frame. Chalk it up to RnD. Do an autopsy on the frame and see what happened.

    To me it was the whole way they handled it.

    Read the thread on the guy with the AIR9 fiasco. Or the guy with the CX bike. It’s a common occurrence. Point is Niners CS stinks. I was warned by my LBS when I just had to have the new Jet, that it would be a nightmare if I had a warranty issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motox155 View Post
    This isn't meant to be a slam, just an observation, but...after reading this whole thread I see Niner had only one course of action; to replace your frame. Anything less results in a huge cyber dog-pile.

    Sorry dude, I feel bad for your problem but at what point does a manufacturer stop assuming all liability for their product (short of catastrophic failure)? Do they have the right to access something for themselves and determine if they are liable? Then if they determine they were not at fault that's not good enough? Obviously if they were not concerned about their PR they wouldn't have participated in this thread but if they did just say "screw it, give this guy a new frame", even if they didn't feel they were liable, there would be another guy right behind with a similar problem starting a new thread. It's a no win situation for them.

    If you bought the bike already assembled (Niner doesn't fully assemble) and rode it for months on end without issue YOU are as liable as anyone. These are mechanical toys. They require maintenance. The whole time you owned the bike you never pulled the seat post or even adjusted it up and down? After washing it or riding in the rain? If the frame cracked in half you'd have a valid concern and I'm sure it would be warrantied, but riding around for months and having corrosion due to moisture build up...sounds like a lack of maintenance.
    I'd agree and while the situation sucks, this is a very, very common theme with carbon seatposts in carbon frames. I have a friend with a Yeti same thing happened after just a year, and he ended up soaking it with linseed oil as I recall then putting it in a vise. I just read this thread on the Pivot forum as well and reminded me of this thread. I use Dumode Tech "Liquid grease" in mine and work it in just by loosening the seat collar after I wash it.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/pivot-cycles/...l-1020881.html

    I worked at a shop some 25+ years ago and saw some pretty funky stuff. Even had a "heavy sweater" try to warranty an AMP research frame because his sweat corroded the anodized frame leaving streaks and his seatpost was stuck too. Basic maintenance is necessary, if you can't do it yourself then pay someone. People even will drive to your house in a mobile bike shop van now.

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    Was pointed out to me on the other board that I am creating more Drama than needed....

    I agree....

    Niner....feel free to PM me. Maybe this story can have a happy ending.

    Otherwise I will post once more when I finally know if I win...lose....or give up.

    Thank you for all the support and critical advice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    I'd agree and while the situation sucks, this is a very, very common theme with carbon seatposts in carbon frames.
    As I said, my comment was definitely not a slam, I feel bad for the guy and can see why he's mad...or at least frustrated. But I can see Niners position as well.

    I've owned probably a half dozen different carbon frames, never had a stuck seat post. I have a lot of riding friends who own carbon bikes, don't recall any of them have seat post problems. Maybe it's common? But not with the people I ride with.

    I did see this from the link you provided and it may explain some of the problem? I know it refers to carbon seat posts but...?? BTW...I never use grease on my seat post, seems counter productive to what you want your post to do "grip". I do always use carbon paste though...it works for me.

    FYI Grease And Carbon Seat Posts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Perhaps you should educate yourself on what corrosion is, specifically galvanic corrosion, and how it applies to metals in contact with carbon fiber. It doesn't "occur" during the manufacturing process.

    I had an opportunity to read of it regarding cars like mine that have an aluminum hood and steel hinges. The hood or alignment is easily damaged when this occurs and sure, it's all well and good to go researching it after the fact but if there are no mentions of it specifically or explanation of it's effects in the owners manual for a car or bicycle regarding maintenance, I think it's a stretch to consider metallurgy, electrolysis and such to be common knowledge under general terms like maintenance.

    Perhaps it is covered in the owners manual from niner ?

    Could be they or their attorney forgot to include mention of that in their encompassing response unless I missed it. For certain though, it's a good time for them to strategically revamp their owners manuals to that effect.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

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    the article includes an excerpt from the bankruptcy petition that describes what they will be able to achieve going forward. To me it is highly wishful thinking and should have included improving customer service.

    OP should restore all his posts and work with new owners, assuming it is a viable brand going forward.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Was pointed out to me on the other board that I am creating more Drama than needed....

    I agree....

    Niner....feel free to PM me. Maybe this story can have a happy ending.

    Otherwise I will post once more when I finally know if I win...lose....or give up.

    Thank you for all the support and critical advice!
    Now they have filed for bankruptcy, think you are screwed, hopefully not.

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    This is the same thing that happened to Titus Cycles.
    I don't wish this on Niner at all but it is a fool's notion that Bankruptcy is a fresh opportunity.

    Niner is done...they have to go through this to satisfy creditors and avoid personal collections.

    Oh well..... time to make sure you stock up on lower pivot bolts!

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    If op feels so strongly about getting a replacement frame aswell as a free dropper, perhaps he could take over niner’s warranty dept. For future customers... Dunno? Food for thought ...
    Riding bikes means life behind bars, except no TV :-d

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    Quote Originally Posted by motox155 View Post
    As I said, my comment was definitely not a slam, I feel bad for the guy and can see why he's mad...or at least frustrated. But I can see Niners position as well.

    I've owned probably a half dozen different carbon frames, never had a stuck seat post. I have a lot of riding friends who own carbon bikes, don't recall any of them have seat post problems. Maybe it's common? But not with the people I ride with.
    I can see Niner's position too. It probably wasn't their fault. It was probably that Jenson forgot to put the lube on the seat post, but they don't want to admit it. I'd be willing to bet that Jenson made a phone call to Niner and said hey, we sell a shit ton of your bikes and you should eat part of this, we took care of the dropper post, you take care of the frame. Reality is it would cost Niner probably about the same as it cost Jenson for the dropper post, as Niner gets their triangles at cost whereas theoretically Jenson has to pay wholesale.

    And Niner probably said no, this is your fault, we're not eating any of it. Niner probably also felt under pressure because of their financial situation. But Jenson is in the stronger position, they don't really need Niner and probably have a shit relationship with them, so they told Niner to **** off.

    And this is the result. Bottom line, this probably was not a factory defect but Niner really should have warrantied the frame. This kind of thing is part of doing business as a frame manufacturer - you are going to have to eat some frame warranty matters. If you don't, you piss off your vendors (Jenson) and your customers (see this thread). So as a frame manufacturer you're supposed to build some margin in for this kind of thing.

    Niner also covered up for Jenson. They don't want to completely torpedo that relationship by throwing Jenson under the bus. But they had the frame, and they could and should have determined whether it was lubed properly. i'd be willing to bet it was bone ****ing dry, but Niner didn't want to say that.

    This is all conjecture though. What I do know is that this poor dude got a stuck seat post 6 months after purchasing a brand new bike, and the manufacturer/vendor is telling him to pound sand. That is ****ed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstigator View Post
    If op feels so strongly about getting a replacement frame aswell as a free dropper, perhaps he could take over niner’s warranty dept. For future customers... Dunno? Food for thought ...
    Niner had a warranty department? Couldn't tell by their response.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    I had an opportunity to read of it regarding cars like mine that have an aluminum hood and steel hinges. The hood or alignment is easily damaged when this occurs and sure, it's all well and good to go researching it after the fact but if there are no mentions of it specifically or explanation of it's effects in the owners manual for a car or bicycle regarding maintenance, I think it's a stretch to consider metallurgy, electrolysis and such to be common knowledge under general terms like maintenance.

    Perhaps it is covered in the owners manual from niner ?

    Could be they or their attorney forgot to include mention of that in their encompassing response unless I missed it. For certain though, it's a good time for them to strategically revamp their owners manuals to that effect.
    I wrote that because the OP made a comment about how "maybe the corrosion got in there during the production process" which shows he has no idea what corrosion is. It's not like the frame was contaminated at the factory and some corrosion "got in there". It just made him sound like an uninformed idiot.

    Seatpost corrosion doesn't only apply to Niners, or carbon frames. Seatposts, frames, wheels, etc. have all been used for many years in the bike industry. Galvanic corrosion is nothing new.

    This thread (and the other one) make my blood boil. I can't figure out why so many people are blaming Niner for an issue that's clearly ONLY Jenson's fault for possibly forgetting to use fiber grip, and/or the OP's fault for not checking/maintaining his own stuff. IMO Niner has done nothing wrong here. The OP received more from both companies than I would have given him.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I wrote that because the OP made a comment about how "maybe the corrosion got in there during the production process" which shows he has no idea what corrosion is. It's not like the frame was contaminated at the factory and some corrosion "got in there". It just made him sound like an uninformed idiot.

    Seatpost corrosion doesn't only apply to Niners, or carbon frames. Seatposts, frames, wheels, etc. have all been used for many years in the bike industry. Galvanic corrosion is nothing new.

    This thread (and the other one) make my blood boil. I can't figure out why so many people are blaming Niner for an issue that's clearly ONLY Jenson's fault for possibly forgetting to use fiber grip, and/or the OP's fault for not checking/maintaining his own stuff. IMO Niner has done nothing wrong here. The OP received more from both companies than I would have given him.
    No need to get so upset. Niner and the distributor are intertwined--partners. It is niner's product and they should care whether the distributor effed it up, and same goes for Jenson. You don't just wash your hands of it.

    It wouldn't be surprising if niner took a much harder stance on warranties across the board given their now revealed financial woes and bankruptcy. You know, niner warranty claims can be wiped out per the bankruptcy...i bet they will.


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    Why is Niner still tweeting?

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I wrote that because the OP made a comment about how "maybe the corrosion got in there during the production process" which shows he has no idea what corrosion is. It's not like the frame was contaminated at the factory and some corrosion "got in there". It just made him sound like an uninformed idiot.

    Seatpost corrosion doesn't only apply to Niners, or carbon frames. Seatposts, frames, wheels, etc. have all been used for many years in the bike industry. Galvanic corrosion is nothing new.

    This thread (and the other one) make my blood boil. I can't figure out why so many people are blaming Niner for an issue that's clearly ONLY Jenson's fault for possibly forgetting to use fiber grip, and/or the OP's fault for not checking/maintaining his own stuff. IMO Niner has done nothing wrong here. The OP received more from both companies than I would have given him.
    That's a good explanation on your stance assuming the corrosion issue is well explained in the bike manual and the associated preventative steps for proper maintenance.

    If anyone can prove or disprove this is covered in the bike manual as of that model at the time, it should go a ways to show he was remiss in not following the protocol AND Niner overlooked a very simple way of putting it back on the owner.
    He neglected the indicated maintenance as stated in the manual. (That'll be a Yes or No).

    Short of that, I don't believe the world is full of uninformed idiot's because they hadn't read, heard of or researched galvanic corrosion.

    Under the specifics of criteria it can occur, I believe it's possible an informed idiot could be the person who forgets to outline it's process and effect in a manual where the steps should be part of the bike maintenance section.
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  109. #109
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    Fwiw, cause is probably hosing at the seat frame junction when cleaning. I’ve done it, corroded stuck in a bit over 6 months, another buddy had same happen in different brand frame. It’s aluminium carbon , you have to keep the water out or remove and refit every few months.

    It’s also possible mine got salt water into it as well

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    It’s aluminium carbon , you have to keep the water out or remove and refit every few months.
    Does the manual say this, or is this just a guess on your part?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Does the manual say this, or is this just a guess on your part?
    I was curious so I checked. The only note I found was about initial installation.

    "Apply a thin film of Carbon Assembly Compound (Tacx, FSA or other) to the post and inside the seat tube to ease installation, adjustment and removal."

    Nothing I could find about removing and reinstalling every so often in either the 'frame care and maintenance' or 'seatpost installation' sections of the manual.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Does the manual say this, or is this just a guess on your part?
    Neither, it’s science, being the opposite of blind faith

    Good thick anodising will help, but if the anodising fails on a small area you get the whole potential in just the one spot and so get accelerated corrosion.

    There are good reasons for carbon seatposts is carbon frames, and for the same reason, aluminium in aluminium frames

    Light reading follows,

    https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galva...olymers/2/1556

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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    Neither, it’s science, being the opposite of blind faith

    Good thick anodising will help, but if the anodising fails on a small area you get the whole potential in just the one spot and so get accelerated corrosion.

    There are good reasons for carbon seatposts is carbon frames, and for the same reason, aluminium in aluminium frames

    Light reading follows,

    https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galva...olymers/2/1556
    this is a bit like the Niner approach to customer service—epic fail. should have been able to predict such bs through a controlled experiment.


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    So sad----I had a KS (and I am one of many) post get stuck in my pivot 429t-----I tried everything to get it out to no avail----but then Pivot had me send the frame in and they got it out---they simply said they would deal with this for me.

    Big call out to Pivot for stepping up even if the issue was not theirs----seems KS had a bad batch of annodizing or so folks claim which caused the issue---no way for me to confirm that but the post on return has most of the coating gone.

    KS is off my list forever and Pivot has gone way up especially reading all this grief

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    So sad----I had a KS (and I am one of many) post get stuck in my pivot 429t-----I tried everything to get it out to no avail----but then Pivot had me send the frame in and they got it out---they simply said they would deal with this for me.

    Big call out to Pivot for stepping up even if the issue was not theirs----seems KS had a bad batch of annodizing or so folks claim which caused the issue---no way for me to confirm that but the post on return has most of the coating gone.

    KS is off my list forever and Pivot has gone way up especially reading all this grief
    Thanks for posting. Good to hear Pivot took care of you.

    And the plot thickens. It turns out maybe the problem had nothing to do with Niner's Frame all along?

    Hmm, I wonder how the OP feels about it now? I hope some of the haters are willing to accept that there's a possibility that all this had nothing to do with the frame, and everything to do with assembly, bad ano on the dropper, maintenance, or some combination of the three.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Thanks for posting. Good to hear Pivot took care of you.

    And the plot thickens. It turns out maybe the problem had nothing to do with Niner's Frame all along?

    Hmm, I wonder how the OP feels about it now? I hope some of the haters are willing to accept that there's a possibility that all this had nothing to do with the frame, and everything to do with assembly, bad ano on the dropper, maintenance, or some combination of the three.
    OP still blames Niner....
    In the above example Pivot came to the rescue.
    Niner customer service is so bad even dealers in their home state of Colorado won't sell them.
    I didn't know this when I bought the bike but I sure got an education!

    There are plenty of companies that stand by their product, Niner just isn't one of them...

    -OP

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    OP still blames Niner....
    In the above example Pivot came to the rescue.
    Niner customer service is so bad even dealers in their home state of Colorado won't sell them.
    I didn't know this when so bought the bike but I sure got an education!

    There are plenty of companies that stand by their product, Niner just isn't one of them...

    -OP
    I just realized my mistake. Until a second ago I was still convinced I could use logic to communicate reason to someone who doesn't have any common sense. This is why working in any business that involves customer service sucks. It's clear now, no amount of logic will allow common sense to enter your brain.

    Niners product didn't fail. If you want to blame anyone it should be Jenson or KS (apparently). You'd even make a stronger argument if you were blaming the Carbo Grip company for making a defective seatpost lubricant that Jenson is positive they used (probably didn't). But instead your uninformed opinion is that the frame manufacturer magically had something to do with the poor anodizing on the seatpost and the probable mistake during assembly.

    You got it wrong, admit it. Now your just doubling down to try and save face for the debacle you've created.
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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I just realized my mistake. Until a second ago I was still convinced I could use logic to communicate reason to someone who doesn't have any common sense. This is why working in any business that involves customer service sucks. It's clear now, no amount of logic will allow common sense to enter your brain.

    Niners product didn't fail. If you want to blame anyone it should be Jenson or KS (apparently). You'd even make a stronger argument if you were blaming the Carbo Grip company for making a defective seatpost lubricant that Jenson is positive they used (probably didn't). But instead your uninformed opinion is that the frame manufacturer magically had something to do with the poor anodizing on the seatpost and the probable mistake during assembly.

    You got it wrong, admit it. Now your just doubling down to try and save face for the debacle you've created.
    Awwww....
    Did I upset you....

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I just realized my mistake. Until a second ago I was still convinced I could use logic to communicate reason to someone who doesn't have any common sense. This is why working in any business that involves customer service sucks. It's clear now, no amount of logic will allow common sense to enter your brain.

    Niners product didn't fail. If you want to blame anyone it should be Jenson or KS (apparently). You'd even make a stronger argument if you were blaming the Carbo Grip company for making a defective seatpost lubricant that Jenson is positive they used (probably didn't). But instead your uninformed opinion is that the frame manufacturer magically had something to do with the poor anodizing on the seatpost and the probable mistake during assembly.

    You got it wrong, admit it. Now your just doubling down to try and save face for the debacle you've created.
    I'll have to agree with this ^^^

    As for Niner's customer service and warranty, all I can say is with the 2 Niner bikes I've owned, I had zero customer service issues. Regarding the quality of the bikes (JET9, AIR9 RDO), both bikes were of exceptional quality ... and my old 2010 JET9 is still going strong!

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Niners product didn't fail.
    I would agree with you if he purchased a Niner *frame*

    But he didn't. He purchased a complete bike from Niner. Sure, Niner didn't manufacture the dropper or assemble the bike. But they supplied all the parts to Jenson, their dealer, who assembled it.

    Legally and ethically, in my opinion, the complete bike is Niner's product and therefore Niner's ultimate responsibility to fix. If Niner doesn't want that responsibility, they should sell only frames and not complete bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    As for Niner's customer service and warranty, all I can say is with the 2 Niner bikes I've owned, I had zero customer service issues.
    Did you ever have to make a warranty claim? Not sure how this comment is relevant. I'm sure 95% of Niner purchasers never have a warranty claim. It is how Niner handles a warranty claim that is the issue here.

    Sorry I'm not a Niner owner nor do I have a stake in this particular situation, but it just annoys me to see a company screw over a customer relating to a very expensive, high end product like this. It reflects very poorly on Niner in my opinion.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    I would agree with you if he purchased a Niner *frame*

    But he didn't. He purchased a complete bike from Niner. Sure, Niner didn't manufacture the dropper or assemble the bike. But they supplied all the parts to Jenson, their dealer, who assembled it.
    Two things. Right from the beginning the OP claimed there was a defect with the frame. That appears to not be the case so his argument is misguided at best.

    And second he bought the bike from Jenson. His warranty claim and all communication should have been with Jenson.

    I'm not sure if people are aware but Niners come from the factory COMPLETELY disassembled. Not one nut or bolt is installed on the frame. It's an involved build that requires professional assembly, specialty tools, and takes a pro 4-5 hours to build.

    Legally and ethically, in my opinion, the complete bike is Niner's product and therefore Niner's ultimate responsibility to fix. If Niner doesn't want that responsibility, they should sell only frames and not complete bikes.
    So no fault falls on Jenson, or KS? None???

    It is how Niner handles a warranty claim that is the issue here.
    I'm not suggesting that Niner handled this perfectly, they could have done things differently, but I don't disagree with anything they said or did.

    Edit: Except destroying the frame without first communicating that necessity to the customer, which they admitted was a mistake and have updated their policy because of it.
    Last edited by *OneSpeed*; 12-07-2017 at 07:42 AM.
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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    Did you ever have to make a warranty claim? Not sure how this comment is relevant. I'm sure 95% of Niner purchasers never have a warranty claim. It is how Niner handles a warranty claim that is the issue here.

    Sorry I'm not a Niner owner nor do I have a stake in this particular situation, but it just annoys me to see a company screw over a customer relating to a very expensive, high end product like this. It reflects very poorly on Niner in my opinion.
    I never did have a warranty issue myself. The Niner bikes I've owned (and still own), have been trouble free. Honestly they've been some of the best bikes I've owned! I do have a personal friend that had a frame warranty issue, and he was taken care of in a very timely manner.

    My guess is you could find warranty complaints against ANY bike manufacturer out there. They ALL have some issues from time to time, but I think most provide more than adequate support for their products ... at least that's been my experience, and what I've seen from those around me.

    On another note, this is a great example of the benefits of dealing with a LBS vs buying online.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    OP still blames Niner....
    In the above example Pivot came to the rescue.
    Niner customer service is so bad even dealers in their home state of Colorado won't sell them.

    There are plenty of companies that stand by their product, Niner just isn't one of them...

    -OP
    Niner does stand by their product when a manufacturing defect presents itself. Me and all my friends who have ridden niners over the years have all been taken care of. In your case, proper maintenance (stuck seat posts) didn't qualify as a warranty in their minds.

    There are plenty of Niner dealers in Colorado. They do sell direct out of their showroom, and 30-40% off depending on the product. That is why a lot of dealers "won't sell them" and I know a lot of people who drive up from Denver to buy bikes directly from them. It's hard to justify buying a Yeti frame/fork for $4000 when you can buy a complete Niner JET or RIP for that price - or less. And it will ride just as well if not better. Yeti doesn't have the best customer service, and they are CO local. But that's another thread.

  124. #124
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    I appreciate OP's frustration no question, none of us want a bad experience, few can afford to "eat" cost of a frameset without planning and never want to, particularly when it isn't solely (if at all) the owner's fault, but kfb66 and GSJ1973 boil it all down pretty well.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfb66 View Post
    ... you could find warranty complaints against ANY bike manufacturer out there ... this is a great example of the benefits of dealing with a LBS vs buying online ...
    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    ... Niner does stand by their product when a manufacturing defect presents itself ... Yeti doesn't have the best customer service, and they are CO local. But that's another thread.
    FWIW, I've owned both Yeti's and Niner bikes and have loved having both, and have had warranty based interactions with both companies. In my personal experience the warranty support of both has been about equivalent, I've been satisfied with the timeliness and outcome of the various processes, even though in one case the result wasn't "in my favor" - I considered it a long shot and wasn't surprised ... but it's always worth a polite inquiry.

    If people want "no questions asked" warranty type relationships they need to stick to the big vendors (Giant, Specialized, Trek, et. al.) where the volume of product makes it much more in the business favor to just issue out replacement parts and not quibble over it. The smaller vendors just don't have the same economy of scale, anyone buying into a small vendor needs to recognize and be mindful of these differences. Few, very few, smaller vendors have lifetime warranties on frameset (only I know of is Devinci) and some/most of those allow competitive use within warranty (which IS NOT disallowed by Niner warranty).

  125. #125
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    Yes....
    Some dealers sell Niner.
    I live in South Denver and not only could I not find a Niner dealer...i had a hard time even getting a bike shop to do the tear down and build up. This included a bike shop that I have spent lots of money with and have a good relationship with.

    I did however get an earful about why they won't work with Niner...

    I understand that many of you are passionate about Niner. It is a nice bike that rides very well. I am sure you may have a lot invested in Niner both emotionally and financially.

    I was and am genuinely surprised at their poor customer service.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I just realized my mistake. Until a second ago I was still convinced I could use logic to communicate reason to someone who doesn't have any common sense. This is why working in any business that involves customer service sucks. It's clear now, no amount of logic will allow common sense to enter your brain.

    Niners product didn't fail. If you want to blame anyone it should be Jenson or KS (apparently). You'd even make a stronger argument if you were blaming the Carbo Grip company for making a defective seatpost lubricant that Jenson is positive they used (probably didn't). But instead your uninformed opinion is that the frame manufacturer magically had something to do with the poor anodizing on the seatpost and the probable mistake during assembly.

    You got it wrong, admit it. Now your just doubling down to try and save face for the debacle you've created.
    Your mistake is ignoring the fact that Niner took destructive action on a frame without prior consent, admitted to their mistake and still had the audacity to charge the customer $900 for their admitted mistake.

    Your arrogant tone does nothing to further your argument other than make you look a fool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Your mistake is ignoring the fact that Niner took destructive action on a frame without prior consent, admitted to their mistake and still had the audacity to charge the customer $900 for their admitted mistake.

    Your arrogant tone does nothing to further your argument other than make you look a fool.

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    +1.

    Let me hacksaw your frame in half, OneSpeed. You can't blame me though!


  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Thanks for posting. Good to hear Pivot took care of you.

    And the plot thickens. It turns out maybe the problem had nothing to do with Niner's Frame all along?

    Hmm, I wonder how the OP feels about it now? I hope some of the haters are willing to accept that there's a possibility that all this had nothing to do with the frame, and everything to do with assembly, bad ano on the dropper, maintenance, or some combination of the three.
    i guess i am a niner “hater”. niner went through a lot of trouble to pronounce themselves not guilty, washed their hands with respect to the distributor/assembler of THEIR faultless product—without any support, and then trashed the owner’s frame and didn’t return it.

    you could not be more wrong in comparing the OP circumstances and the ****ing documented response from Niner, to the Pivot example. Now if Pivot had told the guy, “**** you! it is your ****ing problem with KS—so **** you!”. and then pivot drive over to his house and deliberately drove over his bike in the drive way, and then drove away with a big middle finger sticking out the window, then I could see the comparability to Niner.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    I appreciate OP's frustration no question, none of us want a bad experience, few can afford to "eat" cost of a frameset without planning and never want to
    If you're in the manufacturing business, any manufacturing business, you have to factor in that a certain percentage of the product that you manufacture is going to be defective. Do you think that 100% of every item that rolls off the assembly line is perfect? if you have a warranty policy, you have to be prepared to honor it AND set aside funds to cover it. This is not an issue of what Niner can and can't afford (or at least it shouldn't be).

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Two things. Right from the beginning the OP claimed there was a defect with the frame. That appears to not be the case so his argument is misguided at best.
    Who cares? He purchased a bike and six months later it was broken through normal use. If that's not a warranty issue, then I guess the concept of a warranty doesn't mean much.

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    And second he bought the bike from Jenson. His warranty claim and all communication should have been with Jenson.

    I'm not sure if people are aware but Niners come from the factory COMPLETELY disassembled.
    He made a claim with Jenson. But just because you as a manufacturer sell through a distributor does NOT mean that you are off the hook for warranty issues. I mean that is basic contract law. Unless you think Ford isn't responsible if you buy a car from a Ford dealer and the engine seizes six months later?

    From the customer's standpoint, it doesn't matter who assembled the bike. All the parts came from Niner, and those were sent to their dealer, with whom they have a contractual relationship, for assembly. Is Jenson culpable here? Sure. But Niner isn't off the hook just because they have a partner who does some of their work. Niner sells *complete * bikes. That makes them responsible for the WHOLE bike.

    I'm glad that people have had good experiences with Niner. But for a $900 frame that probably cost Niner $500 in this case, Niner has generated tons of bad publicity and I'm sure lost a few customers. They should have taken care of this customer.

  130. #130
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    Some of you need to spend some more time outside.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's more than Catfish would do.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Ochmonek View Post
    Some of you need to spend some more time outside.
    ^^^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Ochmonek View Post
    Some of you need to spend some more time outside.
    Yeah, I went back and read my last post and wondered why I responded. at least I didn't reply while I was driving, that is the only redeeming aspect.


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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    He made a claim with Jenson. But just because you as a manufacturer sell through a distributor does NOT mean that you are off the hook for warranty issues. I mean that is basic contract law. Unless you think Ford isn't responsible if you buy a car from a Ford dealer and the engine seizes six months later?

    From the customer's standpoint, it doesn't matter who assembled the bike. All the parts came from Niner, and those were sent to their dealer, with whom they have a contractual relationship, for assembly. Is Jenson culpable here? Sure. But Niner isn't off the hook just because they have a partner who does some of their work. Niner sells *complete * bikes. That makes them responsible for the WHOLE bike.
    Not trying to defend *OneSpeed* here, but that is a horrible comparison. Does the Ford Dealer assemble the car? No they don't. So in the case of a Ford owner having a problem with the seat not functioning, if it is a standard seat and not aftermarket Ford is at fault since they assembled the vehicle.

    However, how many people here would go directly to Ford to get it fixed? How many people would go to Ford's headquarters and demand that they fix the problem? Zero. They would go to the closest Ford dealer and have it fixed there.

    In this case Niner is saying it wasn't a fault with the frame. That it was a fault with the maintenance/assembly. Are they at fault because the company assembling the bike put it together improperly? No they aren't. Are they at fault because it was improperly maintained? Nope. Just as they wouldn't be at fault if someone ordered it directly from them and put it together improperly. Would Ford be at fault if the dealer or customer installed a custom seat improperly?

    If it was a faulty seatpost, then yes they should shoulder some of the blame due to selecting that particular post for their build. However, it should still be handled with the dealer that sold and assembled the bike before it ever went up the chain to Niner.

    Just my $0.02 not that anyone really asked.

  134. #134
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    To continue with your metaphor...If it went back to the Ford plant and Ford hacked his car in half without his permission, to try and find the issue with the seat, that would suck wouldn't it? Should Ford be liable then?

    Niner hacksawed his frame in half folks. Without his permission. Why do people keep missing that?

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    To continue with your metaphor...If it went back to the Ford plant and Ford hacked his car in half without his permission, to try and find the issue with the seat, that would suck wouldn't it? Should Ford be liable then?

    Niner hacksawed his frame in half folks. Without his permission. Why do people keep missing that?
    I didn't say that Niner didn't screw up in that regards. Yes, the F*&#ed up with the destruction of his frame without contacting him. They even admit fault themselves.

    My whole point was he should have been dealing with Jenson from the get go, and only dealt with Niner had Jenson completely refused to help him. Niner wasn't at fault for the original problem. They are at fault for the destruction of the returned frame.

  136. #136
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    Just to be clear....
    Based on a source from inside Niner who PM'd me it seems very probable that the seat post tube was not reamed properly during the manufacturing process.

    This also makes sense when you combine it with Niner destroyed the frame and through a month long examination could not find anyway it was their fault or Jensons fault so it must be my fault.

    I just wished they owned the problem.

    In 6 months the only way it could be my fault or Jensons fault is if we used epoxy to install the seatpost

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFarris View Post
    I didn't say that Niner didn't screw up in that regards. Yes, the F*&#ed up with the destruction of his frame without contacting him. They even admit fault themselves.

    My whole point was he should have been dealing with Jenson from the get go, and only dealt with Niner had Jenson completely refused to help him. Niner wasn't at fault for the original problem. They are at fault for the destruction of the returned frame.
    I DID start with J enson.
    The drama started when we got Niner involved.

    J enson wasn't the problem....lets say NO carbon paste was used by Jenson...ok the seat post may have been "difficult" to remove after 6 months. But no reasonable person or bike shop agrees that it should have been stuck like it was...

    Also...everyone keeps saying corrosion....we got that answer from Niner when they wanted to claim a maintenance issue. If the post wasn't reamed properly it very well could have just been stuck....

    Yes....i agree that other variables way be involved....but the manufacturer should have stepped up an honored their warranty after only 6 months. To do otherwise means they don't really have a warranty....they have a 5 year "opinion" they offer on all Niner bikes.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    it seems very probable that the seat post tube was not reamed properly during the manufacturing process.
    So if this is the case, how do you explain the fact that the seatpost moved freely when you received it? You already admitted that it was fine when you first got the bike.
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  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    So if this is the case, how do you explain the fact that the seatpost moved freely when you received it? You already admitted that it was fine when you first got the bike.
    Onespeed....
    Dude you have a belly full of hate on this topic but like lots of folks with overly strong opinions you only hear and fixate on what fits your preconceived notions.

    The seat post did move when I first got it....it was tight...but it moved.
    This doesn't mean the post wasn't reamed properly. It just means it wasn't stuck when I got it.
    It failed during normal use....therfore it is a warranty issue.

    Also...there is no seatpost maintenance schedule in any owners manual so to claim I didn't maintain it properly is just a garbage excuse...

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Onespeed....
    Dude you have a belly full of hate on this topic but like lots of folks with overly strong opinions you only hear and fixate on what fits your preconceived notions.

    The seat post did move when I first got it....it was tight...but it moved.
    This doesn't mean the post wasn't reamed properly. It just means it wasn't stuck when I got it.
    It failed during normal use....therfore it is a warranty issue.

    Also...there is no seatpost maintenance schedule in any owners manual so to claim I didn't maintain it properly is just a garbage excuse...
    Kind of agree with both of you here. It doesn't really make sense that it would be that stuck at this point if you were able to move it before. Even if it was tight there's a difference between tight and completely immovable.

    Does seem like there's some room for improvement in the Niner manual.

    Sounds like an iffy warranty claim in my opinion. Just looking at it completely from Niner's standpoint I can understand why they'd think it's not their issue but at the end of the day was new enough and inexpensive enough to deal with that they'd have been better off just giving in and making a concession this time.

    As far as destroying the frame I don't like that idea and it isn't just Niner that does it. I guess if they're giving you a replacement it is what it is but if they deny warranty they definitely shouldn't destroy the frame without permission. No question that was wrong.

  141. #141
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    this is like some other classic mtb threads with many lives and each one taking on different characteristics. at end of day when Niner emerges triumphant from bankruptcy—very first act by their new leader will be new frame for WP


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  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Just to be clear....
    Based on a source from inside Niner who PM'd me it seems very probable that the seat post tube was not reamed properly during the manufacturing process.

    This also makes sense when you combine it with Niner destroyed the frame and through a month long examination could not find anyway it was their fault or Jensons fault so it must be my fault.

    I just wished they owned the problem.

    In 6 months the only way it could be my fault or Jensons fault is if we used epoxy to install the seatpost
    Those frames are made in a mold with a 30.9 diameter seat tube. I am assuming once they are cured from the mold they are then hit with a 30.9 diameter abrasive wheel to smooth out (ream?) the resin...but otherwise I can't see there being anything wrong with the mfg process since they all come out of the same mold. Reading other posts in other bike brand forums, there is clearly an issue with corrosion of anodized aluminum with carbon.

    Destroying the frame is another story. I'd want the frame back and just ride it like it was with the seat post where it was personally if I was denied a warranty.

  143. #143
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    Just wanted to give a final update on this.

    After a 4+ month long dispute, I lost and Niner won. I never did go through small claims, and still may decide to do so, but went through my credit card company.

    Thank you for the advice (both pro and con).

    My lesson learned is to buy local (not online)

  144. #144
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    I'll add to this. I bought a 2017 RKT 9 RDO 4-star build.

    OneSPeed is correct. Niner ships the bike in pieces. As in not even the brake cables were ran through the frame.
    Everything was good but a small crack was found in the carbon seat post on the back side between the seat mounting bolt and the seat post.

    This was back in Dec of 2016. I have yet to get a replacement seat post, LOL.

    The seat post sticking problem. Isn't a Niner problem.
    I have a KS seat post in my Salsa that I bought off a buddy that had it stuck in hius Pivot 429. Seat post works as it should just doens't look very nice after getting it out of the bike.
    Too Many .

  145. #145
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    RKT RDO warranty

    I was just denied a warranty claim from Niner and your note about seeking a claim through your credit card is intriguing. Can you share more? I used my AMEX to purchase my now compromised bike. Please keep us in the loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Just wanted to give a final update on this.

    After a 4+ month long dispute, I lost and Niner won. I never did go through small claims, and still may decide to do so, but went through my credit card company.

    Thank you for the advice (both pro and con).

    My lesson learned is to buy local (not online)

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ui5299 View Post
    I was just denied a warranty claim from Niner and your note about seeking a claim through your credit card is intriguing. Can you share more? I used my AMEX to purchase my now compromised bike. Please keep us in the loop.
    It is a long process and Niner doesn't let the truth get in the way of their story...
    In their 14 page rebuttal to my dispute they used pages from my social media accounts (Facebook and/or Strava). They also used emails that I had written that were used out of context to support their case.

    After my experience with Niner, I would suggest posting your specific experience where ever you can but ultimately know that you won't win because they cheat.

    I just bought a Salsa Warbird Carbon Rival. Not only did I not consider a Niner, i explained to dozens of people why i would never buy a Niner.

    I am still amazed at the responses I get from shop owners about why they would never carry the Niner brand and how much it would cost the shop itself to make up for Niners lack of customer service. In other words it is generally accepted and understood in the industry that buying a Niner is a dice roll at best.

    I am almost 50yrs old...I buy a new bike almost every year because I love the sport.

    Niner is not a good steward of the sport. Even now they are profiteering at the expense of their creditors ( who gave them credit on good faith on repayment) by declaring bankruptcy and selling th e company.

    Niners warranty is at best an opinion only and in my experience not worth pursuing.

    Next time buy a different bike...I did...

    WP

  147. #147
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    OH NO!

    Why did you buy a Salsa?!?

    It is generally accepted and understood on the internet that buying a Salsa is a dice roll at best.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/broken-...ma-724321.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/cracked...ay-875473.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/cra...se-980347.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/thi...s-1034476.html


    But thats probably just crazy people complaining on the internet, hoping that their complaining will absolve them of any personal responsibility.

  148. #148
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    Did your credit card provide any help?

  149. #149
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    Nice burn!

    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    OH NO!

    Why did you buy a Salsa?!?

    It is generally accepted and understood on the internet that buying a Salsa is a dice roll at best.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/broken-...ma-724321.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/cracked...ay-875473.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/cra...se-980347.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/thi...s-1034476.html


    But thats probably just crazy people complaining on the internet, hoping that their complaining will absolve them of any personal responsibility.
    Ok...that was awesome....
    And I get it...
    I truly believe Niner stole about $1000 from me and even though I am just one person I will continue to bash these bastards...

    I bought locally...as I will always do from now on.
    Your post was a good burn though !

    Wp

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ui5299 View Post
    Did your credit card provide any help?
    Yes!
    Just came through today.
    good luck with your upcoming battle!
    Last edited by WP Local; 02-21-2018 at 03:33 PM.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    OH NO!

    Why did you buy a Salsa?!?

    It is generally accepted and understood on the internet that buying a Salsa is a dice roll at best.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/broken-...ma-724321.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/cracked...ay-875473.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/cra...se-980347.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/thi...s-1034476.html


    But thats probably just crazy people complaining on the internet, hoping that their complaining will absolve them of any personal responsibility.
    I've owned 4 Salsas, and still own 3 (2 full carbon, 1 alloy, 1 steel). ALL of them have been great bikes, and ALL have been trouble free ... my guess is WP will be very happy with his Salsa!

  152. #152
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    You are probably correct, and I hope his new bike serves him well and never gives him a lick of trouble. Salsa is a great brand, and so is Niner.

    The point is that no bike is perfect and there is not a bike company out there with out its share of broken frames and warranty claims. Some of them turn out well for the customer, others don't.

    There are plenty of people who make the same exact comment you made about Salsa, but about Niner. I personally have owned 2 Niners and considered them to be great bikes with out trouble. Based on that experience I am considering buying another one.


    My comment, was simply to try to bring some perspective to a thread that is filled with a lot of negativity about a brand based on what appears to be exclusively anecdotal evidence.

    It is helpful to discuss and share your experience with brands and bikes as that can help others make informed decisions. What isn't helpful is trolling a forum making unfounded claim's and accusations. Especially after having gone to some lengths to obfuscate the story.

  153. #153
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    Crazy day...I found out I won my dispute with Niner!!??!

    Crazy day...

    After a month+ of thinking I lost my case against Niner, I received a letter today from my CC company today saying it has been reviewed and resolved in my favor.

    It is also stated in the letter I received that this credit is a permanent credit.

    so I checked my CC statement and sure enough the credit has been applied.

    I wish I could say that this changed my opinion of Niner... it doesn't...but I am happy with what appears to be the ultimate outcome being in my favor.

    Love the bike (I really do!)....hate the company....

    -WP

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post

    It is helpful to discuss and share your experience with brands and bikes as that can help others make informed decisions. What isn't helpful is trolling a forum making unfounded claim's and accusations. Especially after having gone to some lengths to obfuscate the story.
    hummmmm....careful here... Yes...I am trolling.... but my story is legit based on my my experience and I do feel the need to defend my position against Trolls like yourself.

    In the beginning of all this I tried to work with Niner in good faith. They made promises they didn't keep, they used private information from my social media accounts that they obfusticated to their own perspective and they generally refused to address what is a real problem.

    There is too much here to re-hash...but... I do not wish them well.

    WP

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    OH NO!

    Why did you buy a Salsa?!?

    It is generally accepted and understood on the internet that buying a Salsa is a dice roll at best.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/broken-...ma-724321.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/cracked...ay-875473.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/cra...se-980347.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/thi...s-1034476.html


    But thats probably just crazy people complaining on the internet, hoping that their complaining will absolve them of any personal responsibility.
    I just looked at your Join date and your posts....

    tell us....do you work directly for Niner or the company that is purchasing them?

  156. #156
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    I am glad it has worked out for you

  157. #157
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    I just can’t get past how much time effort and money Niner spent to disbute this claim. Just doesn’t add up. This was a couple hundred dollar fix. Benefit of the doubt to the customer. Especially after all the bad press it was getting Just give out a new front triangle. Problem solved.

    To me Niner dug in their heels and determined to win the claim no matter what the cost. In short they took it personal. As if winning would vindicate them with all of us.

    Wether they know it or not, they lost . Some might have sided with Niner and will still be customers. Most didn’t. And we will never hear about those who decided on another brand just over this issue. Not to mention the numerous others How many customers did they loose over the cost of one triangle?

    Terrible business model. Especially for a company struggling just to stay in business.


    Like I have said here many times. They spent dollars ( a lot of them) to save pennies. Dumb play Niner.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    I just looked at your Join date and your posts....

    tell us....do you work directly for Niner or the company that is purchasing them?
    Ah the old conspiracy theory - really pulling out all the stops on that specious reasoning.

    I would tell you that I don't work for either company, or even in the industry, but it seems like you are well past being reasonable.

    I accuse you of obfuscating the situation because you literally went through all of your original posts in this thread and edited them down to meaningless stubs. How are others meant to learn from your situation - when all you have left for us are vague posts or bitter sh*t posts? No one coming to this thread without context would be able to put together your side of the story.

    You said that you edited them because you "felt threatened". Really? Did a representative of Niner threaten you? If so why not share it with us? Or better yet report it to the proper authorities?

    You made comments in a public venue for all to see disparaging, at the very least, Niners warranty process. Niner, just like you or me, has a right to take those comments into consideration when crafting a response, whatever that response may be. As an adult you should be acutely aware that what you say and do has ramifications, and furthermore should take responsibility for those ramifications.

    The bottom line is that this whole situation could have been avoided with 10 cents worth of carbon paste and you conducting an inspection of your bike at some point. Thats not to say that you are at fault, simply that if you took some responsibility for the things you say and do, you may have some perspective on the situation and realize that Niner may not really be the bogey man you make them out to be. Galvanic corrosion has been a thing in the bike industry for 30 years. You being ignorant of that fact does not necessitate Niner's complete culpability.

    I agree with the poster above - that regardless of who is at fault on an ultimate level - Niner should have just taken the hit on this. Its pocket change to them compared to the negative press that you are raging around MTBR spreading.

    I am glad that you were able to recover some funds via your CC, if only because if I were in your situation I would want that as well. Enjoy your Salsa, maybe go start posting over on the Salsa sub forums now?

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Crazy day...

    After a month+ of thinking I lost my case against Niner, I received a letter today from my CC company today saying it has been reviewed and resolved in my favor.

    It is also stated in the letter I received that this credit is a permanent credit.

    so I checked my CC statement and sure enough the credit has been applied.

    I wish I could say that this changed my opinion of Niner... it doesn't...but I am happy with what appears to be the ultimate outcome being in my favor.

    Love the bike (I really do!)....hate the company....

    -WP
    awesome! Congrats

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    Ah the old conspiracy theory - really pulling out all the stops on that specious reasoning.

    I would tell you that I don't work for either company, or even in the industry, but it seems like you are well past being reasonable.

    I accuse you of obfuscating the situation because you literally went through all of your original posts in this thread and edited them down to meaningless stubs. How are others meant to learn from your situation - when all you have left for us are vague posts or bitter sh*t posts? No one coming to this thread without context would be able to put together your side of the story.

    You said that you edited them because you "felt threatened". Really? Did a representative of Niner threaten you? If so why not share it with us? Or better yet report it to the proper authorities?

    You made comments in a public venue for all to see disparaging, at the very least, Niners warranty process. Niner, just like you or me, has a right to take those comments into consideration when crafting a response, whatever that response may be. As an adult you should be acutely aware that what you say and do has ramifications, and furthermore should take responsibility for those ramifications.

    The bottom line is that this whole situation could have been avoided with 10 cents worth of carbon paste and you conducting an inspection of your bike at some point. Thats not to say that you are at fault, simply that if you took some responsibility for the things you say and do, you may have some perspective on the situation and realize that Niner may not really be the bogey man you make them out to be. Galvanic corrosion has been a thing in the bike industry for 30 years. You being ignorant of that fact does not necessitate Niner's complete culpability.

    I agree with the poster above - that regardless of who is at fault on an ultimate level - Niner should have just taken the hit on this. Its pocket change to them compared to the negative press that you are raging around MTBR spreading.

    I am glad that you were able to recover some funds via your CC, if only because if I were in your situation I would want that as well. Enjoy your Salsa, maybe go start posting over on the Salsa sub forums now?
    Very well said.
    Your first post wasn't nearly as eloquent.
    In hindsight I do regret deleting the posts... I did this based on my lack of trust for the company and what they may do. I agree now it was foolish.

    I have always praised the bike itself.

    My apologies if I misread you and/or your intentions.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    Just wanted to give a final update on this.

    After a 4+ month long dispute, I lost and Niner won. I never did go through small claims, and still may decide to do so, but went through my credit card company.

    Thank you for the advice (both pro and con).

    My lesson learned is to buy local (not online)
    i didn’t take this lesson from your experience at all. It sounds like Niner is one of those companies whose service is poor.

    But I’d still buy online direct, that’s my first choice.

    i remember the general theme of all those posts you deleted so it is good to know that the credit card company sided with you.

    some other things to learn: if you want a frame replacement then don’t settle on something else, as to me that made it harder for Niner or Jenson to backup.

    I recently finished a carbon frame build, Tallboy 3, also avwarranty and a truly helpful service throughout from CC and SC. They are both awesome. I first put a truvativ al seatpost in with friction paste, just to hold in stand for build. It was an effing bastard to insert and remove. a couple weeks later i trade an old king headset for a brand new Thomson al post. The Thomson fits perfectly, snug but easy to adjust up or down and zero effort to remove.

    you obviously got jammed, but the components can make some difference, too.

    Anyway, congrats and happy trails.


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  162. #162
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    So did they refund you in full? And who eats this? So you received a free seatpost from Jenson? Sounds like after a lot of frustration, you ended up smelling like a rose.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    So did they refund you in full? And who eats this? So you received a free seatpost from Jenson? Sounds like after a lot of frustration, you ended up smelling like a rose.
    That's why I said I won.....

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP Local View Post
    That's why I said I won.....
    You love bumping your own thread.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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