No travel adjust on '08 Helius FR?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    lazy piston
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    New question here. No travel adjust on '08 Helius FR?

    So I've been reading the mtb-news.de forum (I don't speak German but I used an online translator which works mostly ok - if you know what you're reading about) and I came along this thread: http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=311120

    Somebody quoted Falco's letter where he was explaining how to use the two holes on the '08 Helius FR swing-link: as far as I could understand what's written, he is saying that the upper hole is used with an air-sprung shock with 50 mm stroke, and the lower one is there for a coil over shock with 57 mm stroke.

    So what have we got here? No more travel adjust and an immense leverage ratio (167 mm to 50 mm, or 3.34:1) with an air shock? I wonder why they did this, or am I missing something?

  2. #2
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    that appears to be the gist of it. Although you can change the travel by fitting the 50m stroke shock in the bottom hole.

    I was a bit dissapointed when i found this out(as I was looking forward to messing about with the settings) but to be honest, having ridden it I can't think of any situation where i'd like to alter the travel. From what I've read on the older model, the travel adj was used to find the 'sweet spot' which if I remember right, the general consensus was @ 5.5". The new model pedals so well(I've never ridden the old one) and still takes everything in it's stride that I reckon it's pretty much spot on the way it is.

  3. #3
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    The new model pedals so well(I've never ridden the old one) and still takes everything in it's stride that I reckon it's pretty much spot on the way it is.
    Yes you're probably right, I just don't seem to like the way things are moving: less options, simplified design (just compare the old and new heatube gussets) and higher price tag... something is not right here

  4. #4
    "Its All Good"
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    Yo Peeps...

    I got in contact with Falco and Karl on this point, wanted to get the facts from the horses mouth so to speak, which here they are.

    The posts are right. There is no more option to reduce travel on the Helius FR. We have clearly found that in the past 99% of Helius FR riders only used the maximum travel and never used the option to reduce travel of the former Helius FR models.

    Nicolai OEM shocks are allways custom shimmed regarding to the particular stroke to travel ratio. It works great.

    Thanks Nicolai for giving us your thoughts and feedback.

    My take, I am happy that I will have the travel in the best sweet spot for the frame. When speaking about this at Nicolai, Karl and Falco mentioned the best sweet spot travel of a few frames. I am down with it that this has been done... I am not one to fiddle and experiment and play, for those that do, this may well be a concern for you though...

    I think though Smithy that the price rise so to speak for the USA will be for the fluctuations in currency exchange, the USA dollar is piss weak at present.. Thats another topic though....

    Well mt Helius FR left Nicolai yesterday, so could be here today, more likely tomorrow....... I am a happy camper....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  5. #5
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    That's right. There are still a few options though - if you're fitting a non-OEM air shock there are some available at 200mm eye to eye and 57mm stroke that would use the lower shock mount.

    There are also some 222mm air shocks (such as the RS Pearl) with 57mm stroke that the Helius FR will accomodate by adjusting the front shock shuttle.
    Simon Still
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  6. #6
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    That's right. There are still a few options though - if you're fitting a non-OEM air shock there are some available at 200mm eye to eye and 57mm stroke that would use the lower shock mount.

    There are also some 222mm air shocks (such as the RS Pearl) with 57mm stroke that the Helius FR will accomodate by adjusting the front shock shuttle.
    Hey Simon, thanks for participating!

    However, I don't see how fitting a different shock with the same stroke into the same hole would adjust the travel in any way

  7. #7
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    No, you're right - it wouldn't. The Helius FR no longer has adjustable travel because Nicolai had found there was no real demand for it - it's now optimised for 167mm travel which can be achieved with either a 50 or 57mm stroke at 200mm eye to eye. Longer shocks (but limited to 57mm stroke) can be fitted by adjusting the front shock mount.
    Simon Still
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  8. #8
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    No, you're right - it wouldn't. The Helius FR no longer has adjustable travel because Nicolai had found there was no real demand for it - it's now optimised for 167mm travel which can be achieved with either a 50 or 57mm stroke at 200mm eye to eye. Longer shocks (but limited to 57mm stroke) can be fitted by adjusting the front shock mount.
    Yeah, that perfectly coincides with what I've been thinking.
    However it's kind of sad to see the travel adjust gone... on my '07 I switch between travel modes from time to time, but I guess I'm in the minority here.

  9. #9
    "Its All Good"
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    Simon - Great to have you on board, your participation will be hugely appreciated am sure. We have a good number really of UK peeps riding Nicolai, great to see...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10

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    wait a sec! No travel adjust? Am I wrong here in thinking that moving the shock forward on the top tube mount will lessen travel? I've an 07 and assumed that was what this was for. Anyone with info? My puzzlers all puzzed...........

  11. #11
    CAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailwhore
    wait a sec! No travel adjust? Am I wrong here in thinking that moving the shock forward on the top tube mount will lessen travel? I've an 07 and assumed that was what this was for. Anyone with info? My puzzlers all puzzed...........
    TW-moving the shock mounts forward in the shuttle will slacken your head tube angle + seat tube angle, while moving them back will steepen them. On the 07 you could move the rear shock mount to 3 locations on the rocker to change the travel.

  12. #12
    wuss
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    Just out of interest, would 190/50 have worked on the 07?

  13. #13

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    Ah HA

    CAO THanks dude! I should have figured that one out! I thought the 3 mounts in the link were for progression! Man! I feel silly. I can't wait to play with these some more. Thanks again for the help!

  14. #14
    CAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailwhore
    I can't wait to play with these some more. Thanks again for the help!
    Any time. Have fun experimenting with the hta too, it is amazing how these nicolai's change personalities with each setting. I started to keep a notebook on the UFO to keep track of my thoughts and shock/tire settings for each adjustment option. After a couple of changes I just could not keep up any more. Cheers.

  15. #15
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    just remember that if you move the standard shock forward you'll lower the BB, slacken the HT and probably twat the ST with the tyre on full compression!

  16. #16
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropadrop
    Just out of interest, would 190/50 have worked on the 07?
    Why not? You will just have to move the front shock mount a bit rearward, and your travel won't be 115-163 mm any longer, more like 100 - 140 mm.

  17. #17
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    Just to remind you all that Nicolai do not warrant the use of the front shock shuttle on the Helius FR to make geometry changes - it is intended for use of different length shocks. If you do use it to change geometry you must remove the shock spring and ensure there are no collissions at full compression.
    Simon Still
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  18. #18
    CAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    Just to remind you all that Nicolai do not warrant the use of the front shock shuttle on the Helius FR to make geometry changes - it is intended for use of different length shocks. If you do use it to change geometry you must remove the shock spring and ensure there are no collissions at full compression.
    Are you saying that the front shuttle is never to change? Isn't the stock location of the front shuttle the same for a 7.875 x 2.25" coil and 7.875 x 2" air? With the only change being the location on the rear rocker?

    If this is the case it seams rather pointless to have a shuttle and multiple locations for it. I could be very wrong but those are my initial thoughts on it. These adjustments on the UFO are why a big part of why I love that frame so much. Guess if I order a Helius I will need to make some alterations to the seat post angle/design to allow adjustment. Thanks again for your insight and information.

  19. #19

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    Can someone tell me the various travel settings? I'm thinking the "lower" ie closer to the bb mounting holes on the swing link provide less travel, while moving the shock "up" provides more travel. Thanks all. I'd best go check for interference issues as I've lowred my BB for more slack and standover! Take care!

  20. #20
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    Simon Still
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  21. #21

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    Thanks Simon much appreciated! A new doors just opened as I've been using 2nd highest travel up to now! Fantastic!

  22. #22
    local trails rider
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    "using a 50mm stroke shock in the lower mount reduces the travel.
    "
    So, you can get reduced travel if you want to. Any particular reasons not to do that?

  23. #23
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    Not really - you should get just under 150mm travel.
    Simon Still
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  24. #24
    CAO
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    Simon, Thanks for clearing that up and adding a tech bulletin on the FR settings. Are there any other shocks out there in the 222 x 57 size? The only thing I can think of is the old Fox Talas rear shock which has its own travel adjust feature. Given the same size stroke ie 57mm would going with a longer shock body provide any other benefit? ie more oil flow, cooler temps, less fading?

    I was really hoping that the 08 would use a longer stroke shock like a 222 x 70 and lower leverage but the early reports are good so far. My wish list on a bike is pretty big...

  25. #25
    local trails rider
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    As we are talking tech about the Helius FR...
    Many German bikes tend to be a bit tall to us standover-challenged guys. Is anyone able to get standover or center of BB to top of TT figures on the stock FR?

  26. #26
    "Its All Good"
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    I will do some peasurements tonight or in the morning when I pick my biek up and it is finished being built....

    On this thread though, we need to distinquish between the 07 and 08 FR's, it will cause confusion, and remember I am blonde, so get confused easy....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
    lazy piston
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    Simon,

    I would like to clarify the warranty point here. Probably I just couldn't understand what you were saying but I'll ask my question anyway:
    If I DO use the front shock mount to alter the geometry and I DO check that there's no collision between seat tube and rear tire at full compression, is my warranty still valid?

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