Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    I thought it worth separating out the GPI and std bike threads really and providing a platform to both showcase different peoples builds and how the bikes are being used, how the frames are evolving and to provide a place for feedback or suggestions.

    I have been waiting for my new and shocks to arrive after the last two frames went to new, enthusiastic owners with quite different builds for different ends of the riding spectrum showing how versatile the bike can be.

    My next build will be a little different too building on the development theme.

    Still a longest sixe, me being 5'10"/178cm It will sport some Mojo tuned Fox 40's reduced to 180mm with the previously featured 450mm swingarm and 175mm travel 222x70mm X2 with 6 spacers at the rear.
    Overall this adds around 470g to the 36 equipped version.

    I will be running a -2 angleset with a std BSI BB height of 342mm with the current tyres of choice being a Minion SS rear and Magic Mary/Mavic Charge/Maxxis Minion WT

    A new internally routed Fox Transfer seatpost will take care of dropper duties, shedding aroubd 100g over the previous DOSS (Which has been bombproof and maintenance free)

    I'll still be running a mixture of both Derby rimmed CK wheels and Mavic XL'S with a dean easy conversion at the rear.

    I was hoping the new Mavic Carbon wheels would be suitable to drop another 100g or so, but it's clear they are not man enough for the job with a recommended max jump of 60cm.

    Brakes and drivetrain are a mixture of Hope and xtr/Sram XX1

    Stem is a Syntace 30mm and bars Atherton Pro 800's

    I am still expecting the whole bike to come in under 32lbs.

    Reports and pics once built!

    For now here is the previous incarnation

    As usual the bike will be available for demo's if I'm in the vicinity or someone very specifically wants to try it and we can arrange something.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-25953993113_c5e614310b_z.jpg  

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    Looks like I will also be fitting some adjustable offset triple clamps. More testing.

    The 40 fork easily takes both 27.5 and 29er wheels so I will also be testing the effect of using the larger wheel at these head angles on the front and where/what type of trail that may be an advantage and/or disadvantage..

    A key aspect for me is also if the triple clamp is an issue in terms of manoeuvrability in tight situations e.g. switchbacks and tight trees. Low speed carpark testing suggests not but real life reports to follow of course...
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  3. #3
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    Here is a really nice blog from my Italian friend who came to the UK to pick up and test his GeoMetron to get the settings sorted.

    This is his only bike and a true all round setup. Some nice pictures too.

    nicolai*mojo - aadm
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Here is a really nice blog from my Italian friend who came to the UK to pick up and test his GeoMetron to get the settings sorted.

    This is his only bike and a true all round setup. Some nice pictures too.

    nicolai*mojo - aadm


    Cool. "my bike must be #24 of the original twenty-five."

    Wondering what number mine is

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    Low numbers honourablegeorge.


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    Quite excited now.... have all the parts pretty much organised, dithering a bit over rims and tyres as the bike will be on both trail and uplift duty since it replaces the DH bike and the 26" Ion.

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    Rims and tyres? something 26mm-30mm wide is about optimal in my view. Tyres; I like a fast rear, faves include Minion SS, Rockrazor, even when a bit wet as sliding the back feels very natural but you lean the GeoMetron so much more it's only braking that can suffer,

    Minion DHF2 on the rear is good, Maxxis Aggressor is recommended by CP, my Bro in law recommends the new Vittoria Morso

    On the Front Magic Mary or Mavic Charge all the way for me but about to try the 2.5 Minion DHF2 WT

    Should get mine this weekend, looking forward to it.
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    Cool... think mine wil be along a week or so later.

    New Flow rims at 29mm ID are current favourites. I think the RR would just lack too much traction for me, both climbing and braking - much as I like the idea of easy fireroad climbing. Like the DHR2 on my 26" bike, so maybe that in 2.4 rear with the 2.5 DHF front.

    Too much choice stresses me out

  9. #9
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    Sounds like the Maxxis Aggressor or Vittoria Morso for you George...I'd give either of those a go. I like my DHR2 rear but it ain't half draggy for General use....You will encounter a level of climbing traction I suspect you have not previously experienced ion the GeoMetron. Even with a lightly treaded rear tyre.
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  10. #10
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    Like the sound of that. Thanks (yet again) for the advice.

    Actually, I had intended to email you for even more advice re the fork. Been over the video for extending to 180mm, which looks straightforward, but you had mentioned the negative spring mod also, so would lik to understand how to do that. I saw you mention elsewhere (I've reread ALL the threads ) that the fork is nominally 180mm, but in actual use is more like a 165mm fork - is it doen to the negative spring mod, or just more sag (or combinatin of the two)?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by honourablegeorge View Post
    Like the sound of that. Thanks (yet again) for the advice.

    Actually, I had intended to email you for even more advice re the fork. Been over the video for extending to 180mm, which looks straightforward, but you had mentioned the negative spring mod also, so would lik to understand how to do that. I saw you mention elsewhere (I've reread ALL the threads ) that the fork is nominally 180mm, but in actual use is more like a 165mm fork - is it doen to the negative spring mod, or just more sag (or combinatin of the two)?
    I've sent you the procedure for modding the fork, baseline shock settings, and oil levels.

    Fork will run to almost 180mm but you need to hit something hard! typically 170mm will be given up but the fork sits up much more than standard particularly under braking but remains supple.

    If you want to really go for it, remove the springs from the seals, remove the foam rings and use slick honey or slikoleum (or similar) in the gap, also put a few cc's of float fluid between the bushes with the forks horizontal before re-fitting, they will feel like butter. Use 10W green for the absolute best performance but with a faster tail off. Use Gold for 95% of the performance but longer lasting (std service intervals) but you will notice when they go off more anyway just because of the performance when 'fresh' if you follow the above procedure.
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  12. #12
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    Ooooops. Tweaked trailbike time after a great day at Mojo talking Geo and experimentation and mostly building this I shall look forward finishing it overt the weekend and getting a little test in

    Picked up an adjustable offset clamp and bushes to experiment with too. empirical data rather than theorising



    Running the bad boy forks allows the testing of a 29 front wheel too just to add to the mix
    So 180mm front, 175mm rear, tweaks to the shocks at both ends.

    This one is running a -2 headset as standard


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  13. #13
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    Finally built up, needs a few tweaks to setup but pretty much there.

    May need to add a dropped top clamp, not sure yet.

    Planning to add some lighter wider wheels.


    Geo/key specs for this one (Fork at 180mm) are;

    Size: Longest
    HA: 60.8deg
    SA: 77.2deg
    ETT: 661mm
    CS:450
    BB Height: 338mm
    Reach: 523mm
    WB: 1354mm
    Trail: 138mm
    Mechanical trail: 121mm
    Flop : 58mm
    Weight 32.3lbs/14.6kg

    Bar: 800mm Atherton Pro
    Stem: 30mm Syntace (Or Mondraker 20-30mm direct mount)
    Seatpost: Fox transfer 150mm internal
    Saddle: Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio
    Headset : Superstar -2deg
    Fork: Fox 40 - 180mm - 200mm
    Rear Shock : 222 x 70, 6 spacers, 175mm travel
    Crank: Hope 165mm, 32t
    Brakes : Hope Tech3 X2 203mm rotors
    Drivetrain : XX1 10-42 Cassette/xtr mech (Goatlink)
    Wheels - Mavic CrossMax XL
    Tyres: Magic Mary 2.3 / Minion SS

    Plan is to change the pedals (Xpedo Baldwin), wheels (tbc) and bars(Enve Dh) to reduce overall weight by 320g to bring it back to 31.5lb/14.3kg which I think is the best I can do and keep the mechanical integrity/ride qualities I'm after.

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0036.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0038.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0039.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0041.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0043.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0044.jpg
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    Hi the_pilot, you built a very nice bike. I was wondering whether you are still riding the GPI? If yes, do you have any new experience especially when you compare the GPI with the "normal" geometron?

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    Slavdo I'm still riding the GPI just not as often. Nothing new to report with it. The std bike feels more lively in trail use but that's expected it has more anti squat. It's also less tiring to pedal on a long day, that's the trade off for low maintenance. I much prefer a std trigger shift still. For where I live and ride I prefer the std bike I must confess.


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  16. #16
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    Check out the hashtag #geolution on social media for some teasers of the new range...hardtail, big wheeler...it's almost time to bring it all together...
    If you are a geek you will see a few new parts too...


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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    And this one too


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  19. #19
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    Aadm's write up is great, if youve not read it you should forum members.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Here is a really nice blog from my Italian friend who came wto the UK to pick up and test his GeoMetron to get the settings sorted.

    This is his only bike and a true all round setup. Some nice pictures too.

    nicolai*mojo - aadm

  20. #20
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    Ray,
    It. Ight be #11 I think
    Let us know here how you like it?
    First impressions and after a week or two would be great,
    I reckon it'll grow on you pretty fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Low numbers honourablegeorge.


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    Ray

    I think you'd be amazed at how much grip the Razor has.
    But is has to be the Supergravity TS version.
    Significantly more grip than the Spesh Slaughter (bit lacking in braking) that Loic won his big race on.
    I got caught out in rain in a chalky muddy area (South Downs) with lots of roots and the Razor fared real well. Mr Porter favours it and that means a lot.

    If you need one, a super grippy rear is the Shorty 3C 2.3, it really seems to suit the Geometron on a 23-26 internal rim. Tractors up anything and braking on loam is amazing good clearance too, which you dont get with a Mary on the back.
    At FOD (damp but no rain) the Mary TS front and Shorty rear worked real well for me. For a bit less drag the Minion DHR2 in 2.3 is a great rear too.
    DHR2 rolls and brakes well IMO. A confident all rounder.

    Conti's Baron Projekt works nice as a rear in intermediate wet ground. And in dry dusty rooty stuff its pretty good too. Possinbly a bit better choice than Minion DHR2 if it might get muddy.
    Tested it on the front (Shorty rear) and I found it a bit slidey, but my local mud is very slick and sticky and it wasan unexpectedly sloppy day.

    Phil is right about the Mavic Charge. Lovely grippy front tyre. I need to do more testing if that against my Mary TS on the front. Instinct tells me the slightly deeper Mary tread might grip loose better. But its going to be hard to beat the Charge over roots.

    So, depending on conditions
    Rear Razor/ Shorty / Conti Baron chilli
    Front : Charge / Shorty / Mary TS
    If I had only one wheelset I'd probably go with the DHR2 and Mavic Charge front.

    Maxxis Aggressor EXO sounds frasgile, but DD sounds a bit "stiff" needing very low pressure, with risk orf rolling - mind my Minion DHR2 isn't double down and if C Porter recommends that’s a gold dust recommendation right there.
    wonder what the advantages over a DHR2 are, bit lighter maybe, easier perhaps?
    Review: Maxxis Aggressor 27.5? x 2.30? Tires | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

    REAL MUDDY woods riding (but [not high speed as too little volume] the Spesh Storm tyre can work well, amazing clearance.

    Yeah, too much choice

    Am about to test the + idea with a 2.8 Schwalbe Nobby B Nic on my 34 internal carbon Derby wheel - as I've not managed to sell the wheel yet I may as well play!
    Fits in the 36 ok, for sure its not up to sidewall damaging terrain tho. Local roots might be fun, its comfy I am told. Might be bouncy, lets see. The Conti RQ / TK 2.4 chilli was good on the Derby and BIG but didn't suit my terrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by honourablegeorge View Post
    Cool... think mine wil be along a week or so later.

    New Flow rims at 29mm ID are current favourites. I think the RR would just lack too much traction for me, both climbing and braking - much as I like the idea of easy fireroad climbing. Like the DHR2 on my 26" bike, so maybe that in 2.4 rear with the 2.5 DHF front.

    Too much choice stresses me out
    Last edited by mudfish801; 08-01-2016 at 07:17 AM.

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    I like, rear mud clearance must be ace. 650 yeah?

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    Long term feedback - Still loving my Geometron Longest - and now it's even longer

    I'm 6' 2.5" riding the Longest.

    A year in and I am still loving the Geometron, I must say never had a real long lasting affair with a bike before. The grass has always been greener. it's not now. I did think I was happy with my Nicolai AM - until I rode one of these, IT FITS!

    A couple of weeks ago I built up a new black frame with a -1 head cup from Works plus the longer travel rear end same as the_pilot. 5mm longer stays and a bigger shock this time with the Float compression lever for climbing.
    I wouldn't say the lever is necessary but it certainly feels just a touch more direct when pedalling smooth fire roads uphill. The shock still has al the standard adjustments and range so there is nothing about the lever to not like. As long as I remember to switch climb mode off before I hit the gnar, that is.


    It didn't take me long to get used to riding the Geometron on my local trails last year and, even though they are tight, tree lined, and pretty flat the Geometron handles them with ease. Including the steep climbs where it's traction is amazing. Got to say it’s the funnest bike I've ridden there and my XC FS 100m 29er has been hanging up since I first threw a leg over the Geometron last August..

    So if you're thinking of it, don't hold back, I thought long and hard and for sure I made the right choice.

    mmm, sorry managed to attach pics twice here and can't remove the smaller one!

    (cross posted from: Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"- Mtbr.com )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-geometron-2_600px.jpg  

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    And this one too


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    If I end up divorced, it's going to be your fault

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    haha
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Ray

    I think you'd be amazed at how much grip the Razor has.
    But is has to be the Supergravity TS version.
    Significantly more grip than the Spesh Slaughter (bit lacking in braking) that Loic won his big race on................
    Thanks Neil. I went for the DHF/DHR WT to start with, as I've had good success with the DHR on the 26 bike, so I figure'd I'd start with something familiar, and OCD dictates same brand front and rear. Picked up a Minion SS cheap also, so I have that for the dry days (may be kidding myself there, not seen a dry day for months......) and trail centre/hardpack sort of riding. Will probably run a Shorty up front for the winter months, and maybe a DoubleDown aggressor out back for uplift days, hopefully have a few coming up.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Ray

    Am about to test the + idea with a 2.8 Schwalbe Nobby B Nic on my 34 internal carbon Derby wheel - as I've not managed to sell the wheel yet I may as well play!
    Fits in the 36 ok, for sure its not up to sidewall damaging terrain tho. Local roots might be fun, its comfy I am told. Might be bouncy, lets see.
    I have 2.8 NNs front and rear on my Last Fast Forward with DT XM551 rims (40 internal) - been having great fun on the bike, but the NN on the rear has been the tricky bit - a couple of PSI too high and it loses the ability to deform arounds and crawl over stuff when climbing, too low and - well, I used 6 of those rubber anchovies irepairing it already. The grip is fantastic though, no problems as a front tyre, and "bounce" hasn't been an issue. 2.8s aren't that much wider, it's really the lower pressure (the volume) that's makign the difference

  29. #29
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    Ok. New range is here.
    https://issuu.com/why_gbr/docs/nicol...-2017-final_x1
    They didn't quite go as far as some of us wanted with HA on 13 and 16 but easily changed still, only 1 deg shy. Couple of other things I'd have liked to see, but maybe next year.
    Brave though and shows the confidence. Team racers in Germany have been winning and getting great results since switching to the GeoMetron and of course we saw One Vsion and Jack Reading hit the top 20 in the WC DH at MSA.
    I look forward to what the press has to say at Eurobike.


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  30. #30
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    I personally don't like the fact that 2017 bikes are specified with max. tire width 63,5 mm instead of previous 71,5 mm. Other than that I like the new G16 quite a lot.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    I personally don't like the fact that 2017 bikes are specified with max. tire width 63,5 mm instead of previous 71,5 mm. Other than that I like the new G16 quite a lot.
    So a 2.5 rather than a 2.8! There is no way you'd get a genuine 2.8 in a previous gen Ion or Helius, or GPI, definitely not on something like a 34mm internal rim.

    The 'new' G16 is broadly the same as the current GeoMetron? other than Boost, cable clamp and of course the changed Yoke. The other changes would have potentially given you what you mentioned above without compromising anything, maybe next year.
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    Hi all,
    it was very interesting to read your experiences with the Geometrons.
    i made an excel list where i compared my previous bikes and which kinematic characteristics i liked.
    compared this excel with some of available bikes i surprisingly came exact to the Geometron longest.

    A new frame is too expensive for me but i really like the changes they did for 2017 (222 damper for 175mm travel)

    So in this thread i could read about your custom (?) chainstay at 450mm. Where did you get them?
    And for your 175mm rear travel: Did you change something else or just put a 222mm damper in?

    cheers

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    Joey, Chris had the chainstays produced by Nicolai. The only difference with the 2017 is the trail key allows the shock change due to a 7mm change, but I would have liked to see the chainstay lengthened to 450mm on longest and XL.
    With the 450mm chainstay you just need to fit the 222x70 shock to get the travel, nothing else. I find high setting gives the best all round BB height but Low is amazing downhill.
    I also have an angleset, -1 works great with a 36.
    Msg me if you want to find a used or ex demo frame. But let me know a budget.
    I can also let you know the anticipated cost of the custom chainstay.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Joey, Chris had the chainstays produced by Nicolai. The only difference with the 2017 is the trail key allows the shock change due to a 7mm change, but I would have liked to see the chainstay lengthened to 450mm on longest and XL.
    With the 450mm chainstay you just need to fit the 222x70 shock to get the travel, nothing else. I find high setting gives the best all round BB height but Low is amazing downhill.
    I also have an angleset, -1 works great with a 36.
    Msg me if you want to find a used or ex demo frame. But let me know a budget.
    I can also let you know the anticipated cost of the custom chainstay.


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    What is your take on Santa Cruz saying the HA after certain point makes the fork flex too much and it intervenes with its performance.
    This was in regards to their V10 with a 40 fork. I believe the angle mentioned was 63°.

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    Jazzanova, I think it's bollocks. Chris said he was going to inform them of his opinions too at Fort Bill WC this year after he read the article.
    They were also limited in their ability to mod the V10 as it was basically using a production frame, they only had so much leeway to make changes so not ideal.
    On the suspension If anything the force is more parallel to the direction of travel with a slacker HA as you approach obstacles at speed going forward they don't act vertically. It flexes just as much with a steeper HA if you think about it particularly under braking again where the slacker HA works better. At low speed there is more compromise but it's not designed to spend all its life going slowly, it just depends where the compromise takes place...



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  36. #36
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    What size would you suggest for someone 173cm?
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

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    173cm could go Longer/M or Long/S it depends a little on how you like to ride I think.

    I would recommend a Longer/M if you tend towards being quite a rider that attacks trails and likes to push. I have 'sized up' and don't regret it at all especially as my pedalling position/cockpit is the same as on the smaller size.

    My good friend who is only 1cm smaller rides the Long or S as it is still longer than most XL bikes in reach and has a 620mm ETT and is very happy indeed.

    There is scope to make either size slightly longer and shorter in both cockpit and reach without affecting the ride. Very few of the bikes go out as 'std' so to speak!

    The best way of all to find out is to ride one of course if at all possible.
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    Going to pull the trigger on the argon GLF. I see the nicolai built specs with wtb trailblazer for the rear. Honestly I'm not a fan of that tire. It's not even in plus width. Will the GLF clear 2.8 Nobby Nic or maxxis recons? Thanks in advance

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    Just for info the Mojo GeoMetron bikes will be different to the Nicolai G16 this year.
    Chris wanted to push the boundaries further based on customer experience and feedback. These geo's have all been used on many of the customer bikes out there right now.


    Key Mojo changes to 2017 model.

    83mm BB and wider bearing spacing of the G19 BB. Crank std not boost to give good chainline with boost rear but also more heel clearance, increased stiffness. There wasn't an issue with the previous designs stiffness but it's a side benefit of the design.

    62.5 HA referenced to 559mm a2c or 170mm fork. Giving inherent 62HA with 180mm fork and eff. 77deg SA.

    Size specific CS length; 449mm for Large size.
    I'll grab the other sizes/geo but basically the S and M have 445mm CS with 420mm and 440mm ST, the L and XL have 449mm with 460mm and 480mm ST and the XXL with the ETT beginning with a 7 has a 455mm CS and 500mm ST.

    All versions can use either 222 or 216 shock for 155mm or 170mm rear travel, as can the Nicolai. Both travel lengths can be set up to pedal/feel the same when pedalling.
    Sizes/terminology are

    small=Long 485mm reach
    Medium= Longer 502mm reach
    Large = Longest 520mm reach
    XL = Longesterer 535mm reach
    XXL = Longesterer+ 555mm reach

    *I made the last name up but the numbers are right...

    I'll dig a drawing out.




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  40. #40
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    @pilot

    I was wondering if there going to offer a longer travel 29? or Could you run a long travel fork and a longer stroke shock on the g13
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

  41. #41
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    How do I get a GeoMetron 29er? Either from Mojo or Nicolai?

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    Ok. You can run a longer fork and longer stroke shock on the 29 according to my friends at Mojo, expect 150mm of travel, could go to 160mm front. That means an X2 (leaving aside recent publicity) at 200mm.

    You can get a G13 from Mojo or Nicolai direct. If you want a full fat Mojo GeoMetron 29 as previously built you could go custom or potentially even more custom with the same mods as being made to the Mojo GeoMetron that differentiate it from the Nicolai G16 so HA, BB width etc.

    If you need any help with contacts or anything just PM me and I'll sort you out.

    There are also some deals available on the last few 2016 GeoMetrons from the current batch. Get in touch with Paul at Mojo on that front or again I can put you in touch.

    New 29ers G13 should have landed now, I must chase mine up!
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  43. #43
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    ^I sent Mojo a general contact email two days ago.
    Was wondering about differences between Mojo frames and Nicolai frames.

  44. #44
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    So for G13 no major changes beyond the fact Mojo will likely fit a longer shock and make it slacker with a headset (to put the seat angle back) (based on my discussions) neither of which Nicolai wanted to do at this stage. We discussed 83mm BB too but G16 likely to be more distance/trail oriented than the G16/GeoMetron.

    Want to try it set up with a 27.5 rear wheel but geometry corrected, wanted the chain stay yoke changing to allow this and that has changed.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So for G13 no major changes beyond the fact Mojo will likely fit a longer shock and make it slacker with a headset (to put the seat angle back) (based on my discussions) neither of which Nicolai wanted to do at this stage. We discussed 83mm BB too but G16 likely to be more distance/trail oriented than the G16/GeoMetron.

    Want to try it set up with a 27.5 rear wheel but geometry corrected, wanted the chain stay yoke changing to allow this and that has changed.
    Interesting-is the idea of a G13 with 29 front/27.5 rear based on using a 29 front wheel in the standard Geometron? I have also been following the thread on STW and saw that this was something that was being tested. If so, I would be very interested to know what you have found the advantages/characteristics of such a setup to be.

    The reason I ask is that I've been thinking about one of these bikes for a while, but I want more travel than the G13 (since I'll be going to the Alps a bit next year) and also don't really want to give up what I see to be the advantage of 29er wheels i.e. rollover. So I was considering a custom 29er as suggested a few posts up. But I've been wondering whether a standard Geometron/G16 with a 29er front wheel may be a good option as well. From a performance point of view, I would expect this to have the characteristics I like in long travel 29ers (i.e. carry speed well through rough ground) but with a lighter, stiffer back wheel probably accelerating better than a 29, without much loss in rollover ability since it's following along. If this is true, then I'll most likely be looking seriously at one of these as my next bike...

  46. #46
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    Chris Porter is riding his standard GeoMetron with a 29er front wheel for the past 6 months and now loves it. He might not tell anyone that in print, but he does.

    Obviously it is reduced to 160mm travel at the front. It is a good combination and the effect of the rear having tighter turn radius than the front is the real benefit over a std 29er imho. with the rear 29er wheel not having the same benefit as the front in terms of rollover for a number of reasons.

    I can feed back on the G13 when we have a bit more time on it regarding the travel but it's going to be 150mm rear.

    I can find out what it does to the angles on the std bike, I'll just ask Chris to measure them, BB height and SA will be affected but not enough to make adjustment with either some shock bushes and saddle position effective. The shock bushes may be welcome anyway to get the HA nailed around the 62 mark.

    I am going to try my G13 as described above so will let you know how I get on..it's just arrived in the UK

    As for Mojo G16s

    G16’s WK51 16 being delivered
    G16’s WK2 8 being delivered

    Still a few of the 2016 Mojo bike left with great packages. 2016 bike is bonza in my view, I'm in no rush to change it.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    As for Mojo G16s

    G16’s WK51 16 being delivered
    G16’s WK2 8 being delivered
    I'm trying to figure out what this means. Besides 24 frames close to being in stock.

    I'll be curious to hear about your take on the G13 with increased travel.

    Can you post up some geo numbers for the GeoMetron 29 as well?

  48. #48
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    GeoMetron 29 is a custom bike basically but the geometry was exactly the same as for the 27.5 but with 450mm chain stays.
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  49. #49
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    Great information, thanks!

    I hadn't considered the effect of the smaller rear wheel on turn radius until reading that but I can see how that would work, probably enough to look seriously at making one my next bike.

    I've been thinking about what suspension to use on it since I have a 160 pike and ccdba, but given that the tuned Fox suspension sounds to be a large part of the characteristics of these bikes I'm thinking that could be the way to go.

    The other thing is sizing-I'm 182 cm tall, had a short test ride of a Longer G13 at eurobike this year and liked the fit of that but after reading this thread again I'm thinking about the Longest. I'd be very interested to know about the deals on the 2016 G16 frames...

  50. #50
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    At 175cm tall with the same tip to tip wingspan, which size should I be looking at?
    I rode a 17" Trek Slash 29 and loved it. Rode a Santa Cruz High Tower in large and really didn't like it.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    At 175cm tall with the same tip to tip wingspan, which size should I be looking at?
    I rode a 17" Trek Slash 29 and loved it. Rode a Santa Cruz High Tower in large and really didn't like it.
    You really need to try the bike to figure out which size suites your riding style better.
    I have a Large High Tower and hated it but i am currently riding a large Nicolai GPI and loving it.
    My G13 will be in X-large and i am 182cm tall.

  52. #52
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    Great informations!

    Tried the german siblings of the Mojo Bikes (the 1st generation Geometron Ion 16, the 2nd generation Ion-G16 and the Ion-G13) and was totally blown away.

    The option of the bigger front wheel sounds promising! Rode a Liteville with this wheel combination and it was faster than the one with both wheels in 29'' size.

    Would like to try to fit a plus tire on the rear to add grip on the G-16 but dont sure about the tyre clearance.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedfactory View Post
    You really need to try the bike to figure out which size suites your riding style better.
    I have a Large High Tower and hated it but i am currently riding a large Nicolai GPI and loving it.
    My G13 will be in X-large and i am 182cm tall.
    I doubt I'll be able to throw a leg over one in the PNW.

    That's what has myself leaning towards the Slash.
    I know there is way more to bike sizing than just a simple "Reach" measurement.
    My V10C is the only bike had proper time on before purchasing. All others have been blind buys, including a Chromag Surface (having never thrown a leg over a 29er)
    All this is a moot point as I haven't heard anything from Mojo so far.

  54. #54
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    Hey punky pm me your email and I'll get chris or Paul at Mojo to respond to you.

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    Punky, I'd say a Longer/M would be spot on with a 780mm to 800mm bar.
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  56. #56
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    Hi Morphosity,
    You are right to think of the bike as a package with the Fox suspension.
    I'd been on BOS (Vip'r or S**Toy / Idylle SC or Deville) for years with my od Spesh Enduro and then a lovely camo Nicolai AM (which I thought I'd love forever til I rode the Geometron). In the past I'd had a hard time trying to get older Fox suspension to do what I wanted so BOS was a godsend for me, but now I am totally a Fox convert (and I think Phil/chainline feels the same).
    I think Chris' tips on setup and, of course his alteration of the linkage to behave as he wants, are an intrinsic part of why I feel Fox is the way to go now. The Geometron is designed around the Fox dampers. With that geo the 36 is amazing.
    Reading occasional negative comments in reviews of other bikes with Fox dampers often surprises me until I consider that the Geometron is a full package designed by a guy who really knows suspension. I mean REALLY knows it.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Hi Morphosity,
    You are right to think of the bike as a package with the Fox suspension.
    I'd been on BOS (Vip'r or S**Toy / Idylle SC or Deville) for years with my od Spesh Enduro and then a lovely camo Nicolai AM (which I thought I'd love forever til I rode the Geometron). In the past I'd had a hard time trying to get older Fox suspension to do what I wanted so BOS was a godsend for me, but now I am totally a Fox convert (and I think Phil/chainline feels the same).
    I think Chris' tips on setup and, of course his alteration of the linkage to behave as he wants, are an intrinsic part of why I feel Fox is the way to go now. The Geometron is designed around the Fox dampers. With that geo the 36 is amazing.
    Reading occasional negative comments in reviews of other bikes with Fox dampers often surprises me until I consider that the Geometron is a full package designed by a guy who really knows suspension. I mean REALLY knows it.
    Hey, thanks! I was about to post on here anyway to thank Chainline for the advice as well, since I now have one of the 2016 frames with a 36 fork. Also Paul at Mojo was very helpful and great to deal with.

    Definitely good to have some more confirmation that this is probably the best way to go though. The impression I got from reading about the suspension itself was that the X2 is a great shock (recall issues aside) with lots of adjustability, and a few people I know who have 36's rate them very highly.

    Very, very impressed with the quality of the frame, even having seen quite a few Nicolais built up back in NZ-they really are art in aluminium. I'm looking forward to getting it put together soon because if it rides the way it looks like it should it's going to be awesome!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    Hey, thanks! I was about to post on here anyway to thank Chainline for the advice as well, since I now have one of the 2016 frames with a 36 fork. Also Paul at Mojo was very helpful and great to deal with.

    Definitely good to have some more confirmation that this is probably the best way to go though. The impression I got from reading about the suspension itself was that the X2 is a great shock (recall issues aside) with lots of adjustability, and a few people I know who have 36's rate them very highly.

    Very, very impressed with the quality of the frame, even having seen quite a few Nicolais built up back in NZ-they really are art in aluminium. I'm looking forward to getting it put together soon because if it rides the way it looks like it should it's going to be awesome!
    Having you found time to put it together? Cant wait for pictures!

    Think im choosing the X2 too! But unsure if i choose the G13 custom (as Paul from Mojo's rides it) which will fit the X2 or the Geometron 29 with 10mm more travel at the rear!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Having you found time to put it together? Cant wait for pictures!

    Think im choosing the X2 too! But unsure if i choose the G13 custom (as Paul from Mojo's rides it) which will fit the X2 or the Geometron 29 with 10mm more travel at the rear!
    Yes, it's mostly together now, although I still need to set it up properly and do a few more minor things to it before seeing how it rides-looking forward to that! (Actually I'm looking forward to next summer to take it to some real mountains...)

    Anyway, the pictures...

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-side-view.jpg
    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-front-view.jpg

    It's quite slack, the sketchy angle finder app on my phone says it has a 61 deg HA. I'm surprised how natural the riding position feels-not stretched out at all. The saddle is too far forward in those pictures, I'll move it 15mm or so back. Also I'll probably end up changing the bars to reduce the number of stem spacers if nothing else.

    Weight (not that I'm too worried about that) is 33 lbs as pictured. That's with super gravity casing tyres, heavy Time pedals, Zee brakes, which are all parts I want on this bike. It would be easy to cut weight via carbon bars, cranks, etc but I'm not convinced that the weight saving:cost (and maybe durability) ratio is worth it right now.

    I was also thinking about the Geometron 29 and the G13 options, certainly the standard G13 I saw at Eurobike seemed like it would be a nice bike.

  60. #60
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    I think there is a lot of merit to the geometron concept - I've always felt more comfortable on longer bikes and never felt the slack HA to impede climbing or tight cornering. My current bikes are a Chromag Stylus and Knolly Chilcotin. I'll be looking to update the Chromag this year. For those unfamiliar, it is a pretty aggressive and heavy duty hardtail with a 66 HA. I use the Chromag for pretty much everything, including dirt jumping. I am specifically curious to hear any experience on how the long and slack geometry works with jumps. I get it that its not a dedicated dirt jumper/slope style bike - and I am not an expert jumper but its one area of my riding I really want to improve. My expectation is that it will be fine until the jumps faces start getting very short, steep and abrupt relative to the bike's wheelbase. any thoughts, or better yet, direct experience?

  61. #61
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    I finally got around to test riding my Geometron this afternoon on my local trail. It's pretty much everything I thought it would be so I'm very happy with it. It's awesome downhill, feels very planted and stable, and seems to carve through corners really well. I like the centred riding position, it lets you weight the wheels to control sliding nicely. It also felt very stable over the small jumps that I tried.

    It also climbs really well, as others have said. That centred riding position is great for that too.

    I was also happy with how it behaved in low speed tight corners-i.e. small chute to tight right angle corner. Not really any more difficult than my previous bike ('14 WFO) to deal with. I'll admit that it does have a bit of "chopper flop" that was noticeable going really slowly (turning at a t-junction on pavement, not on trail) but given how well it rides everywhere else I'm more than happy to accept that. And I've owned or used other bikes that also did this at least as much.

    As one of the other reviews (pretty sure it was the one on Pinkbike) said, it's pretty much a short travel DH bike that can be pedalled. I'd be quite happy taking it on a trail ride, which is fortunate since it's going to be my only mountain bike for the next year or so.

  62. #62
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    Yeah i experienced the same awesome centred riding position which lets you feel safer than i'm used to it (usually while riding to short bikes which reaches around 460) and on the 'negative' site you will be more faster when you hit something cause you don't feel the speed like before anymore. You do 30mph in a blink of an eye. Especially on the G13 which speeds up in an mindblowing way compared to other 29ers!

    You soon get used to riding hairpin bends as i was after the third one in Trailground Brilon! It needs only a slight modification in riding towards the bend!

    I think the Mojo Geometron is even better suited to trail riding than the Ion-G16 which is a mini downhill bike in comparison and makes the Ion-G19 feel even 'too much'!

    I'm still unsure if to take the 29 Geometron or the Ion-G13 with custom frame to suit the Float X!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Yeah i experienced the same awesome centred riding position which lets you feel safer than i'm used to it (usually while riding to short bikes which reaches around 460) and on the 'negative' site you will be more faster when you hit something cause you don't feel the speed like before anymore. You do 30mph in a blink of an eye. Especially on the G13 which speeds up in an mindblowing way compared to other 29ers!

    You soon get used to riding hairpin bends as i was after the third one in Trailground Brilon! It needs only a slight modification in riding towards the bend!

    I think the Mojo Geometron is even better suited to trail riding than the Ion-G16 which is a mini downhill bike in comparison and makes the Ion-G19 feel even 'too much'!

    I'm still unsure if to take the 29 Geometron or the Ion-G13 with custom frame to suit the Float X!
    Yes, I can definitely see how that would happen! Having thought about this more, what surprised me the most about the bike was how natural it felt to ride, considering it's very different to most other bikes out there. I'm looking forward to getting it set up properly soon.

    I guess deciding on which frame would depend on the riding you plan to use the bike for. Personally if I was spending the extra for custom I'd probably go for a 29 Geometron since the bikes seem to pedal well and big wheels aren't really a substitute for travel, especially (IMO) for this sort of bike which will see a lot of jumps and drops.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWK View Post
    I get it that its not a dedicated dirt jumper/slope style bike - and I am not an expert jumper but its one area of my riding I really want to improve. My expectation is that it will be fine until the jumps faces start getting very short, steep and abrupt relative to the bike's wheelbase. any thoughts, or better yet, direct experience?
    I assume you're considering an Argon GLF if you're going to update the Chromag.

    For what it's worth (since dirt jumping isn't something I do much of) I think you're right-I'd expect the bike would be fine until the jumps got short and steep. But for dirt jumping there are probably better bikes-it could be a case for n+1?

    From the few little jumps I've tried on my bike I get the impression it's a lot like jumping any other long bike (i.e. a DH bike or maybe some of the longer enduro bikes)-i.e. it tracks well, but would take more effort to move around in the air than a shorter bike. I'd expect the Argon to be somewhat similar but obviously without the rear suspension effect.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    I assume you're considering an Argon GLF if you're going to update the Chromag.

    For what it's worth (since dirt jumping isn't something I do much of) I think you're right-I'd expect the bike would be fine until the jumps got short and steep. But for dirt jumping there are probably better bikes-it could be a case for n+1?

    From the few little jumps I've tried on my bike I get the impression it's a lot like jumping any other long bike (i.e. a DH bike or maybe some of the longer enduro bikes)-i.e. it tracks well, but would take more effort to move around in the air than a shorter bike. I'd expect the Argon to be somewhat similar but obviously without the rear suspension effect.
    ha, yes, update the Chromag with a GLF. I think I would agree with you. I realized after I typed the question I kind of answered it myself - its likely not to be much different from any other "bigger" bike. A DH bike can obviously be jumped - but you are probably not going to use it at the dirt jump park.

  66. #66
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    Argon GLF can be jumped but i think it's a much more better allrounder for trailriding or even enduro like the Last Fastforward!

  67. #67
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    Custom G13 is effectively a Custom GeoMetron that Chris produced last year. Paul at Mojo has a custom G13 with an X2 running about 150mm rear travel and he loves it.

    I personally think the Mojo GeoMetron in 170mm guise has the most flexibility as one bike being able to run 29 front/180 front/170 rear etc with just a touch more DH capability, but the !3 custom 150mm is so close and probably a slightly better long distance bike.
    I think it does come down to wheel preference here really.
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  68. #68
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    Argon GLF build

    Sharing my Nicolai argon GLF in small.. Plussed and loving it. 3.0 nobby Nic and raceface arc 35 rims with onyx hubs

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-20170117_051411.jpg

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    That suits the plus look. nice.
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    Chainline, is that a 29 f 650 r? Looks really good.

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    Punky,

    I have been having a think about sizing and a new number that I have been playing with is Seat / Bar (or steerer if you want to take the stem out of the equation). Basically measure from the top of your seat at XC height on seat post centreline to the centre of your bars. You can then compare this to other bikes with a similar seat height.

    Reach is good for standing so it's a balance between the two.

  72. #72
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    No 27.5/27.5. I'm going to fit a 29 to the front of mine this week. I'll post a picture.
    Last edited by the_pilot; 01-24-2017 at 05:36 AM.
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  73. #73
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    Chainline - As I see it Enduro and DH bikes are getting similar in terms of geometry (nothing an angleset wouldn't resolve). Maybe we will get.to a point where they are the same with different components?

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    No argument from me. I don't see any longer why there is any difference between DH, Enduro or just general trail or even XC in terms of key geometry parameters around HA, SA.
    I can understand why some people might want a shorter bike if that is their preference, I can understand why some people might want shorter chainstays, again if that is their preference but proportionally I think they should be complimentary but in terms of HA/SA I cant see why any of those disciplines, for mtb would be different if the goal of a mtb is to be able to climb and descend efficiently, to be stable when encountering obstacles but to be responsive when deliberate steering input is applied. Why wouldn't you have a sub 63deg HA and 77deg SA on a XC bike with a very short stem, although the latter then does begin to increase WB to accommodate the rider which makes for a longer bike bike I think we have established it isn't a barrier to overall agility. Using very short CS has some impacts on handling/forgiveness at the limit in order to provide 'playfullness', the most desirable trait is up for debate there and down to rider preference/skill level I think. There can't be a right/wrong answer for the latter. It's the big difference between motorbikes (and perhaps increasingly e bikes) and bikes whereby the relative mass of the rider Vs the bike is significant. The heavier the bike and the less reliant on human power the less significant the effect of the rider and his position in determining it's handling characteristics?
    I'll probably have to read that back with a pint after a break to make sure it still makes sense!
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  75. #75
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    Sorry for the slight hijack on the thread but you guys are at the forefront of bike geometry as such thought it would be relevant.

    I completely agree that the geometry for XC to DH should be relatively similar. This is something I like about the Geometrons and Poles (who I understand are heavily influenced by CP). I guess the industry in general is scared to push things too far and it's going to take another 5 or so years for all to catch up.

    Interesting you bring up MX bikes as they must be one of the most versatile off road vehicles and have a 1489mm WB and 63 degree HA (CRF250) which seems to be where you guys are heading.

    I guess the stopwatch will decide at the end of the day.

  76. #76
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    It was where the original basis came from, why is the mtb different to my motorbike...well there are clearly some reasons in suspension etc but otherwise...

    Ah, the stopwatch, I'm not totally down with that, Chris is. It's still got to be fun or feel good, that means different things to different people, I think we have a ways to go before world domination ;-)
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    The stopwatch and multiple runs is the only scientific way of determining if one bike or setup is faster than another.

    I get what you mean about fun. That's why I still ride a hardtail which is perfect for my local trails in Surrey. Funfactor is hard to put a number on though where speed is easy.

    On another note are Nicolai looking to do a G13 with a Pinion? Given you have ridden both (Pinion and Mech) is the Pinion that much better?

  78. #78
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    Have an interesting project on the go at the moment for a proper kids/youngster/smaller person bike, well specced and built light (fit for purpose) but fully featured and capable with no compromises.

    Have been looking for a while as I have two young daughters that ride and a 5" tall wife. Always struggle with standover heights vs top tube lengths and compromised geometry or travel etc.

    Have been adapting an older Orange 5 Diva long for my daughter and my wife uses a S Knolly Warden but there are still compromises especially using a short stem.
    Wanted to do a bike that gave all the confidence and forgiveness the GeoMetron does and not compromise on standover or travel etc.

    Looking at 4'9"/145cm up to about 5'5"/ 165cm. Super low ST/Stanadover for 125/150mm dropper posts, no compromises on rear travel or suspension. Plenty of Flexibility/adjustment - wheelsize/front fork spec/travel and to an extent reach,

    Headlines
    145mm-160mm rear travel,
    160mm to 180mm front travel
    350mm ST
    668mm standover (27.5 wheels/2..35 tyres) lower with 26" or 26/27.5

    Trail to DH use.

    Target weight is 28lbs for a kids/younger persons package. Frame/shock packages will be available, frame/fork/shock and full bikes. The latter focussed on a balance of performance for the youngsters but this is a full blown GeoMetron with all the attendant features, chainstay length adjustment, shock flexibility etc.

    a few tweaks to the spec shown here but pretty much there.

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-mojo-g16-notsolong.jpg
    Aka chainline...

  79. #79
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    It's a little update, but it is an important one....but I'll leave it out there...it's kinda ace😎

    The 2017/current Mojo GeoMetron G16 will happily run either 27.5 or 29 or 29/27.5 wheels.

    If using 29 wheels then 160mm Fox 36 at the front is recommended, it can be modded by Mojo to run slightly longer but with the big neg chamber OR the 40 at 170mm.

    At the rear either travel option can be used in the same way as 27.5 wheels by using a different shock. Alternatively as we did with the 170mm original long travel and can be done with either current setups, you can set up the progression of the rear with spacers to replicate the feel of a shorter travel bike e.g 140mm for the 155mm or 150mm for the 170mm.
    Similar set up can be done to the front if you want but set up properly it shouldn't need reducing in travel!

    You can further tune that feel with the selection of the front sprocket if needed.

    With the 29 wheels it lifts the BB to approx 350mm (does depend on your tyre's dia.) which is where I felt the G13 should have been( although the same dual travel option also didn't materialise which was part of the reason) to aid braking through better weight transfer and reduce 'push' and give improved side to side agility I.e reducing the BB drop. In quick transfers (I think this is an issue with 29's from experience as far back as the slack AC29e (see other posts)

    If you don't like the higher BB one or two offset shock bushes deliver approx 5mm BB drops to return to the 27.5 geo. With approx. the same SA as the G13.
    Without them it has the steeper SA of the G16 (which I also wanted on the G13)

    As stock you get the 62 HA with the 29 as with the 27.5 180mm fork, which is nice with the increased offset.

    With the shock bushes it comes down to 61.5 or 61deg which works great with the 29/27.5 combo,

    The 27.5 gives better rear suspension performance (all things being equal and the 27.5 having lower spring weight) and is likely quicker overall 'doonhall ' however some may prefer full 29 for general duties and pedalling feel..you can choose👍

    Any questions let me know.
    Last edited by the_pilot; 02-26-2017 at 02:07 PM.

  80. #80
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    Whoa!

    Maybe I didn't read this clearly enough. The 170mm rear travel option only works with a 27.5 wheel?

  81. #81
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    I think you probably read it clearly. 170mm works with either 29 or 27.5 in the rear.

  82. #82
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    Wow, perhaps a look into the future...

    One bike that (with a few mods) can fit both wheel sizes and have the correct geometry for both. It is similar in a way to what Dirt did with the Specialized.

  83. #83
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    Nice tour from Vincent. Doesnt quite explain the delays being experienced, but hey, 1st world problems.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...2zSl6UFVAg4y_Q
    Aka chainline...

  84. #84
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    Hello folks, I'm looking to replace my current 160mm enduro rig, I've always much preferred long bikes coming from a moto background. The new bike will be used purely for downhill and trips to morzine but does need to be able to climb to a certain degree. Is this the sort of riding you would say the geometron excels at? I keep looking at it then thinking maybe it looks a bit numb for jumping but curiosity keeps me returning to it as a contender. Also been looking at the poles too. I've got a 29er trail bike so just want more firepower for big days on big hills.

  85. #85
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    GeoMetron does excel at that riding but you might easily find yourself using for much more....It climbs better than almost anything out there on technical trails, the limit will be your lactic threshold! it climbs great anyway but some use the climbs switch for long boring ascents.

    Did you see my sub 32lb 40 equipped one above..

    jumping, erm, no problem...Jack reading seems fine!

    Obviously most people run 36's. it's designed really to run them at 180mm.

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-fullsizerender.jpg
    Aka chainline...

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Have an interesting project on the go at the moment for a proper kids/youngster/smaller person bike, well specced and built light (fit for purpose) but fully featured and capable with no compromises.

    Have been looking for a while as I have two young daughters that ride and a 5" tall wife. Always struggle with standover heights vs top tube lengths and compromised geometry or travel etc.

    Have been adapting an older Orange 5 Diva long for my daughter and my wife uses a S Knolly Warden but there are still compromises especially using a short stem.
    Wanted to do a bike that gave all the confidence and forgiveness the GeoMetron does and not compromise on standover or travel etc.

    Looking at 4'9"/145cm up to about 5'5"/ 165cm. Super low ST/Stanadover for 125/150mm dropper posts, no compromises on rear travel or suspension. Plenty of Flexibility/adjustment - wheelsize/front fork spec/travel and to an extent reach,

    Headlines
    145mm-160mm rear travel,
    160mm to 180mm front travel
    350mm ST
    668mm standover (27.5 wheels/2..35 tyres) lower with 26" or 26/27.5

    Trail to DH use.

    Target weight is 28lbs for a kids/younger persons package. Frame/shock packages will be available, frame/fork/shock and full bikes. The latter focussed on a balance of performance for the youngsters but this is a full blown GeoMetron with all the attendant features, chainstay length adjustment, shock flexibility etc.

    a few tweaks to the spec shown here but pretty much there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I would be interested in this.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    I would be interested in this.
    It's already in train, bike due early May, will test it for a short while with my daughter and some other riders of varying abilities from smaller Enduro racers and 'normal' trail riders, men and women to get feedback, both kids with a 34 and adults with a 34/36. Probably won't put the 40 on it but it can take it if someone wanted to DH the bike!

    We do have a drawing for a piggy back version but it's 20mm higher standover, probably only make that available as a custom.
    Aka chainline...

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    GeoMetron does excel at that riding but you might easily find yourself using for much more....It climbs better than almost anything out there on technical trails, the limit will be your lactic threshold! it climbs great anyway but some use the climbs switch for long boring ascents.

    Did you see my sub 32lb 40 equipped one above..

    jumping, erm, no problem...Jack reading seems fine!

    Obviously most people run 36's. it's designed really to run them at 180mm.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep, saw your 40 equipped rig and got a semi on!

    Just spoke to Paul at mojo about A 40 Equipped 170mm frame. Given that I'm 72kg ish and running 4 orange spacers in my 36's then the 40s look the way to go. I'm going to arrange a test ride when I get chance.

  89. #89
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    chuffing hell 4 orange. thats progressive!
    Aka chainline...

  90. #90
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    That's on the yeti when I'm playing on dh tracks. I struggle with balancing sag and small bump compliance against bottom out on steep stuff without them. If I run 2 then I end up either running them with hardly any sag or bottoming out on big/ hard landings. For general trail riding I'm finding 2 orange and a blue works fine on the push tuned 29er forks. I don't profess to be a particularly great rider so lack of finesse may be a contributing factor to requiring a more progressive set-up. When I used to do a bit of trials riding as a kid, a mate who was a really good rider used to laugh at me and say that if he was as crap on a bike as me he wouldn't try half the stuff I did. Back handed compliment..... Probably translates to my mtb technique too!

  91. #91
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    I sent Mojo another email...

  92. #92
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    I am planing to buy geometron// g16
    Which one is better? Any suggestions?

  93. #93
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    Punky, because you didn't get a response to one or renewed interest?

    Garnetchu, for me The Mojo GeoMetron G16, no question, but I would say that as it has the modifications Chris and I wanted, namely the BB, bearing spacing and the HA changes which also facilitate more easily the wheel size choices.
    Both great bikes, not sure I'd use the word better, but the mojo version has certain advantages if you are a hard rider.
    Aka chainline...

  94. #94
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    had time to think about t more. The new changes are excellent. And I have follow up questions to my original questions.

  95. #95
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    [QUOTE=the_pilot;12727356]Finally built up, needs a few tweaks to setup but pretty much there.

    May need to add a dropped top clamp, not sure yet.

    Planning to add some lighter wider wheels.


    Geo/key specs for this one (Fork at 180mm) are;

    Size: Longest
    HA: 60.8deg
    SA: 77.2deg
    ETT: 661mm
    CS:450
    BB Height: 338mm
    Reach: 523mm
    WB: 1354mm
    Trail: 138mm
    Mechanical trail: 121mm
    Flop : 58mm
    Weight 32.3lbs/14.6kg

    Bar: 800mm Atherton Pro
    Stem: 30mm Syntace (Or Mondraker 20-30mm direct mount)
    Seatpost: Fox transfer 150mm internal
    Saddle: Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio
    Headset : Superstar -2deg
    Fork: Fox 40 - 180mm - 200mm
    Rear Shock : 222 x 70, 6 spacers, 175mm travel
    Crank: Hope 165mm, 32t
    Brakes : Hope Tech3 X2 203mm rotors
    Drivetrain : XX1 10-42 Cassette/xtr mech (Goatlink)
    Wheels - Mavic CrossMax XL
    Tyres: Magic Mary 2.3 / Minion SS

    Plan is to change the pedals (Xpedo Baldwin), wheels (tbc) and bars(Enve Dh) to reduce overall weight by 320g to bring it back to 31.5lb/14.3kg which I think is the best I can do and keep the mechanical integrity/ride qualities I'm after./QUOTE]

    Hi the _pilot, I'm currently speccing up my geometron build and wondered if I could pick your brains on a couple of items?
    I notice you are running 165mm cranks. Have you run 165s on other bikes or just this one and what are your thoughts? I'm 5'10 also but long in the body with 30.5 to 31" legs. I,veg often wondered about trying shorter cranks but as all my bikes have come with 175s this is what I've stuck with. I do struggle to maintain a high cadence and as such have found an AB oval ring makes a noticeable difference with my slow spin style.
    What do you think about the 29 front 27.5 rear configuration? I've been riding 29ers for years but new to the idea of uplift and more gravity based riding so don't have much experience of 29ers vs 27.5 in that area. Would you say the extra roll over of the 29er offsets the reduction in travel against 27.5 for steeper more aggressive terrain?

  96. #96
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    Pigglet.
    I have ridden 165s for a while now. Used to ride 170's. Used to spin but I'm definitely slower cadence now. I can't honestly say I have ever really noticed switching. I rode 175 cranks on Dundaybon the G13 and didn't really notice🙈

    On 29 front. Chris Porter Loves the 29 front. I don't have enough experience yet. I reserve judgement.
    You can have 180mm travel (not officially) on the 29. Using 180mm 27.5 upper and 29 arch. I have such a combo on the way....of course you can only then have 44mm offset but that isn't a bad thing with 'turbo charged' steering due to flop. Chris would like a lower offset option on his 40 with the 29 (you can run the 40 at 170mm with a 29 front.

    I am still a massive fan of the 27.5 but open to testing the 29. I'm waiting for a wheel build at the moment and a 2017 frame.

    I'll post some pics in the various configurations.
    The 29/27.5 makes a lot of scientific sense.
    From Sunday it is the smoother high Frequency bump trails that benefit the 29 in terms f speed/roll, but it's very slight and the gnarr reverts to the suspension travel advantage as well as rapid direction changes. Very noticeable Sunday with G13 VS G16 on the same tracks.
    I'll see if I can get Porter to articulate something on his feelings about the 29 front.

  97. #97
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    Thanks for the response. I'm happy to build up a 27.5 and 29 front wheel if it's relatively easy to swap between the 2 to evaluate which works best for me but I won't have chance to do that before going to the alps so trying to gauge which option will be best for that environment. I might try a shorter crank for better clearance and see if I notice any difference. Getting all excited now, I love faffing around and experimenting so looking forward to playing with something that's quite a bit different to the norm.

  98. #98
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    Is the FLOAT 40 air spring the same as the 36 air spring now? Or is reducing the travel done by other means?

  99. #99
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    Thinking which shock is better for g16
    Bos void // void2
    Float x2

    Both size are 222

  100. #100
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    Fox 40 is travel managed using a formula for the pos/neg springs and setting them individually to suit. Different to the the 36.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnetchu View Post
    Thinking which shock is better for g16
    Bos void // void2
    Float x2

    Both size are 222
    I have a Bos Void Air on my V10C. Nice shock, seal kit and rebuild cost is lower than a X2. Unsure if Bos is still a company? Looking to try a X2

  102. #102
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    Hi,

    I will buy a used geometron longer soon, and I would like to know if it is better a fox float x prepared mojo or a fox float x2 not prepared.(or vivid air and cane creek db air).
    This will be my do it all bike (downhill, bike park and all mountain)
    Is it possible to put a damper in 222x70mm like the g16 to have 175 mm of travel?

    best regards
    nicolas

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    I have a Bos Void Air on my V10C. Nice shock, seal kit and rebuild cost is lower than a X2. Unsure if Bos is still a company? Looking to try a X2
    I had a void on my Ion. I didn't like it as much as the X2 I must confess, I struggled not with getting the air chamber right for me. Good shock though.
    GeoMetron was designed around the X2 if that helps.

  104. #104
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    It depend on the version whip. The used GeoMeteon if it is before the 2017 range requires longer chainstays to fit the 222 shock.
    Chris P did still have some. They can be ordered From Nicolai or you can try and find the few that have been modded.
    Depending on the size you want I know where there is one (frsmeset) that may be for sale with the Longer rear already installed.
    The guy loves the bike but because of some specific requirements he has mainly around his riding style he wants to return to the slightly shorter chainstay and to size down to a Longer version of the same bike but not lose the advantages of the overall length and feel of the bike for him. His bike is a Longest(L) so would suit someone between 178cm and up to 190 ish cm.

  105. #105
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    thanks the pilot.
    my future geometron is 2016.
    do you know the price of longer chainstay from mojo?
    so a float X2 standard is better than a float X evol prepared by mojo if i understand well ( sorry i'm french)

  106. #106
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    For the longer travel bike I would say so. A Mojo Float X is a great shock however.
    I'll ask about the chainstay.

  107. #107
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    tanks a lot the pilot

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I had a void on my Ion. I didn't like it as much as the X2 I must confess, I struggled not with getting the air chamber right for me. Good shock though.
    GeoMetron was designed around the X2 if that helps.
    X2 was vapourware when I picked up the Void. If it hadn't been for the price I likely would have gone a different route.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So for G13 no major changes beyond the fact Mojo will likely fit a longer shock and make it slacker with a headset (to put the seat angle back) (based on my discussions) neither of which Nicolai wanted to do at this stage. We discussed 83mm BB too but G16 likely to be more distance/trail oriented than the G16/GeoMetron.

    Want to try it set up with a 27.5 rear wheel but geometry corrected, wanted the chain stay yoke changing to allow this and that has changed.
    Talking to Nicolai right now on ordering.
    If you wanted to go 29/27.5 Mixer what base would be best to start from?
    Longer shocked G13 (will Nicolai do this?) or G16 with longer CS/SS?

    I am getting a XL version of either.

  110. #110
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    Pilot, have you tried a coil in the Geometron? If so what are your thoughts.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by fartymarty View Post
    Pilot, have you tried a coil in the Geometron? If so what are your thoughts.
    I havent I'm afraid. But I am reliably informed by those who have and do that it works very well. Obviously they are more gravity focussed peeps than I.
    Aka chainline...

  112. #112
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    I see a G-16 in my very near future... what size do you think @189cm?
    thx

  113. #113
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    Raschaa depends a little on your riding style/desires. You would be good on a Longest/Large or an XL.. if you feel you may want to 'play' more or mess about on the back wheel then Longest would be better for all round duties I suspect, so normal riding as well as very committed riding.
    If when you ride it you will always be pushing for speed and always commited then the XL could work for you.
    Both will fit in terms of cockpit but will have a slightly different feel to you as you (like me) are anheight that easily spans either size depending on preference.
    I would expect you to prefer the Longest as an all rounder.

  114. #114
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    Excellent answer, thanks!
    Pretty much confirms my thoughts. Seeing that I have a full-on DH bike the G-16 would replace my Ion 16 as my do-it-all bike, meaning everything from relaxed all day rides to local enduro races. I was just slightly confused because my 1st gen. Ion16 (26") in L is way to small for me and a right pia on long rides...

    cheers

  115. #115
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    Hey,

    just had an interesting idea... what about if I ordered an L and asked to have the longer XL chainstays? Whata ya think?

  116. #116
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    I think 445mm is long enough for a Longer and you have the adjustable chainstay to 450mm if you want. I wouldn't, but it is your bike😉
    You going to buy the Nicolai version or the Mojo version?

  117. #117
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    We're a >300 member gravity oriented mtb club with a sponsoring deal with Nicolai so I will obviously be ordering directly at N

  118. #118
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    Clearly they are different as Nicolai chose not to produce the specification Mojo wanted in any of the G13, G16 or G19 models, which is of course their choice.
    Aka chainline...

  119. #119
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    I really would love a full mojo built 16 but I don't have the coin for that.... and in the greater scheme of things the geolution Nics are still very forward-thinking.

  120. #120
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    Have been order G16
    with FOX x2 222
    160mm FOX 36

    still looking a wheel
    Hope 35W pro4
    //
    DT wheels

    any suggestion

  121. #121
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    Excellent Why 160mm Fox 36 Garnetchu? Why not the 180mm if you will run 175mm rear? I guess perhaps you already have the 160mm.

    If that is the case, and it is the Nicolai version, I recommend fitting a -1 degree Cane Creek angleset with the EC56 lower cup for the best feeling. That should give you around 62-62.5 HA and a 338mm-340mm BB
    Aka chainline...

  122. #122
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    I am order the Nicolai ver
    The 160mm fork is come from my old ion 16, hahaha, trying to sell it so hard in 2nd hand market, haha

    Is it fit to install the 180mm fork in g16?

  123. #123
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    The 180mm is the best length in the G16 and with a -1 headset installed. But I would use a Works components one so the lower cup is ZS and the upper is EC.

    It's still great without a -1 angleset, but even better in my opinion with it.

    But if you use the 160mm fork, you want an External lower as I mentioned.
    Aka chainline...

  124. #124
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    Seeking the wheel for my g16 any suggestions 🙂?
    Hope w35 look new and wide
    180mm//170mm Fox36, 222 Float x2


    Hope Tech 35W-Pro 4 | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England

    Hope Tech Enduro ? Pro 4 | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England

  125. #125
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    My personal opinion is that wider isn't better on a GeoMetron as you lean this bike more. It feels different. However some People like it. I changed my Derby's to run narrower 26-30mm internal width rims as I feel the steering and agility is better but grip is not compromised due to the geometry and suspension.

  126. #126
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    Plan for myself is to run at max. 30mm internal width rims on the G16. But I'm in the 70kg category. And current rims are 30 and 33mm external width...

  127. #127
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    sorry for a stupid question, is the g16 222 float x2 come with a climb switch? or only the 215 size

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    My personal opinion is that wider isn't better on a GeoMetron as you lean this bike more. It feels different. However some People like it. I changed my Derby's to run narrower 26-30mm internal width rims as I feel the steering and agility is better but grip is not compromised due to the geometry and suspension.
    Interesting. I tried some Ibis 942's on a ripley last year and I found that the wider rim with a more rounded tyre encouraged me to lean the bike further. I was thinking 30mm dt's until I saw the 35mm hopes, may hang fire on that decision for the time being.

    Have you had chance to try the 29er front yet?

    I've booked a room near Bike Park Wales and am driving down to demo a GeoMetron with 40's and hopefully both 29er and 27.5 front wheels next Tuesday so really looking forward to it.

  129. #129
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    A few pics to brighten up the day

    Current project, 2017, not finished yet. 27.5/29 setup. Will be using both the 40 and a 36 I think.
    Need to fit the crank, tune the fork for 175mm travel and balance the stantion position with offset bushes to get the BB to 338mm.

    All the other set up is my standard apart from the bar is a little high at present (will change when I've made the adjustments)

    Rider height 178cm

    BarEnd to BB - 915mm
    Centre of seatpost/saddle to centre of bar 680mm
    Stem 30mm
    Bar 800mm with ESIs
    Bar height 1110mm (Target back to 1070mm)
    BB - currently 343mm, planned 338mm
    Rear travel 155mm/175mm Front travel 175mm (29 wheel)
    Magic Mary in the front with 3mm clearance to arch
    Rear wheel Stans Bravo 32h built onto Hope Boost hub with CX-rays
    Front Wheel Enve AM built onto Hope hub, 20mm axle, CX-rays
    HA 61.3deg
    SA 76.5 deg
    CS set at 445mm currently (adjustable to 450mm)

    I will likely also run this with the 29 e-bike 36 with the stiffer crowm but 27.5 uppers and 29 lowers for longer travel as a comparison.

    You can see here the

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  130. #130
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    Nice.
    Are you using angled headset cups to get that HTA, offset bushings, or is that the HTA with a 40 and 27.5/29 wheels?

  131. #131
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    That's the angle before I go anywhere near it with bushes😊 It's partly due to the 29 front wheel and partly 40's. Because I have the stantions and travel high as it is there and the extra 12mm or so of 29 wheel.
    The stock HA is 62 with a 180mm 36. Lifting it 12mm takes a bit(not a lot) off that to around 61.5 and my a2c is slightly higher than 569mm. When I'm done adjusting the BB and the fork it should be around 61deg, the same as with the long travel 29 36 fork or a 27.5 with a -1. I like it around 61.

    The SA will be a hair under 76 so I may take the saddle slightly foreward to compensate too.

  132. #132
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    So while waiting for the folks at N to weld my frame (eta = week 26) I picked up a set of I9 Enduro Carbon wheels with orange hubs/spokes to compliment the orange ano parts on the G16...

    Seeing that I cannot salvage my 2x10 drive from the Ion16 I figured I'd go straight to Eagle 1x12. Do I need a boost crankset? As far as I can tell the X01 Cranks sold as boost just have a different chainring offset. Can somebody confirm that?

    I will be installing my XFusion Metric (a2c 570mm @ 180mm) and my XFusion Vector HLR Air (216mm) with a custom made air can with massive neg. chamber. Will pick up a 222mm shock when the Budget allows. I really would like to try that Extreme Shox Storia...

    Comments welcome
    ra

  133. #133
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    Still waiting my g16 and Just received my fork today
    I have a same question is I need to buy the boost ring?
    MMY thing transfer from my ion16
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_6072.jpg  

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_6071.jpg  


  134. #134
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    You do need a boost ring for the Nicolai version assuming you haven't special ordered Mojo spec.
    To be clear: If you have the 73mm BB, you only need a boost chainring (particularly if it is spider less), not a boost crankset. Only the chainring is offset by 3mm.
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  135. #135
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    The same reply to Garnetchu.
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  136. #136
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    Had a demo day at bike park wales yesterday on a Longer geometron with 40's running 27.5 wheels. Completely blown away with how the bike rode.
    I've never had so much confidence in the front end of a bike before! Just ride the front and let the back end do it's own thing. I couldn't stop smiling all day. I don't think I've ever been able to ride new trails blind in in such a committed way as this bike let me. Complete revelation!!! The 40's worked great for me too. Due to the inability to run a Dfender with the 29er front in the 40's that idea is on hold for the time being, may try the e bike 36's on the front at some point but for my immediate needs the 27.5 40 equipped bike is the ticket.

  137. #137
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    Excellent Pigglet13, always like it when a plan comes together. You clearly clicked early with the changes to how to ride it, some people naturally want to ride that way, me being one of them.

    I'm less worried about the defender at the moment. I'm going to try a Mavic Charge, one of my favourite 27.5 tyres on the front in 29 form as the profile is slightly lower than a MM. I'm also going to try the e-bike fork with the 180mm 27.5 uppers on 44 offset. pretty easy to swop lowers for wheel size then as mentioned.

    It'd be nice to have a 29er 40, boost with a 20mm axle.....or even a triple clamp 36.. anyone interested in a triple clamp 36 at around 2kg weight with bigger air chambers a la 40. I am having sampled the advantages of a 40 [hatches evil plan....]
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  138. #138
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    Funnily I didn't adapt my riding at all, I just got on it and rode in pretty much the same way as I always do but without having to worry about front end tuck. I guess that's why on my "little" bikes I've been running 4 orange volume spacers!
    I think Tobie was amused by my enthusiasm coupled with a very average skill set and the tail happy antics that resulted.

    What a piece of kit! And as for the 40's....... supple doesn't even do them justice. Finally found a bike that suits my riding and just lets me concentrate on riding rather than constantly trying to position my body in a way that's either not going to have me going over the bars or not going to have me un loading the front. Total revelation.

    Cant wait to get one and see what difference it makes to my more technical home trails.

    I can forsee a G13 29er for my everyday trail bike duties in the future too.

    I see what you mean about grip, with weight in the correct place it's there in spades, way more than I've experienced before. Granted it was bone dry and on man made trails but I wouldn't have dared ride my existing bike the way the Geometron let me.

    My existing 29er was a big leap from my smaller older bike but the Geometron is on another level.

    Having switched to 36's for general trail/XC riding and loved the extra stiffness, the 40's just seemed an even bigger step in the right direction for relatively little weight trade off. I'll happily take the extra weight for the way they ride.


    Still buzzing from yesterday and my MTB eureka moment!

  139. #139
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    Sweet!

    I'd be interested in a 36 triple clamp. I don't believe Boost is needed. I've had no issue with the bolt on axle of the 36s on my 29er hardtail trail bike. The Dorado and MRP fork work with 29ers.
    Im undecided on tire selection; go with my standard DHRII up front, or a Shorty(3mm arch clearance with Magic Mary is concerning), or try a Mavic or Michelin tires.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Sweet!

    I'd be interested in a 36 triple clamp. I don't believe Boost is needed. I've had no issue with the bolt on axle of the 36s on my 29er hardtail trail bike. The Dorado and MRP fork work with 29ers.
    Im undecided on tire selection; go with my standard DHRII up front, or a Shorty(3mm arch clearance with Magic Mary is concerning), or try a Mavic or Michelin tires.
    The 36 is already a triple clamp, the crown clamps both stanchions and the steerer (3).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  141. #141
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    Pilot- I am near to completing my G13 XL order.
    Looking through these threads I would like to run an X2 but they only come longer no 190mm.
    So , am I correct to assume that I can run a 200mm X2 with a Fox 36 @ 150? No angleset needed?
    Where can I get the adjustable chainstay ? Mojo directly?

  142. #142
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    So when is this happening for the public?

  143. #143
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    You can't currently run an X2 on a G13 unless it's a custom to take it. It was asked for but...
    Tou can run it with a Mojo G16 and 29 or pay for a custom (Mojo sold a few custom 150mm rear, X2 equipped G13's.
    The chainstay is now std I believe, certainly on G16, check on G13 with Nic Or Mojo or I can find out for you.
    You don't need an angleset on any of them it depends on preference for ride.

  144. #144
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    Hehe. No word on that but I did know it was out there...except there's no 20mm axle boost hub out there either...you would have thought they would talk no!
    Likely 2018 model year if successful.

  145. #145
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    If it's a 2018 model in MTN Bike product cycles it's only a month or two away. Haha.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Hehe. No word on that but I did know it was out there...except there's no 20mm axle boost hub out there either...you would have thought they would talk no!
    Likely 2018 model year if successful.
    If you compare the front Boost hubs 15mm vs Non Boost 20mm. The flange spacing advantage is so small it seems almost irrelevant. The rear hub is where you get the real spoke triangulation advantage.

  147. #147
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    I assume the new G16s arrived and everyone is too busy riding rather than posting on here, no?

  148. #148
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    Waiting to ride on 29 wheels due to the buzz. Doing some formal testing to ensure the best setup as lots of requests for a full 29.
    Just waiting for the @hopetech oval now for the @hopetech cranks then I can go riding. @mojosuspension G16 running 29 wheels. 155mm rear currently(170mm too but saving that for now) , 160mm front with tuned X2 shock and 36 fork. BB set at 340mm (plan testing between 340,345 & 350mm as I have a theory!) HA comes out at 60.5 and SA 76.2 but saddle set to give 77deg. Measured on the trusty digipas anglefinder and a straight edge. Now fitted with the ebike 36, which is heavier than std at 2.2kg but stiffer. first runs will be with the Hopetech enduro wheels until the @stansnotubes Bravo wheels in boost arrive to lighten things up a tad. A @vittoriauk_tyres Morso graphene tech rear ready to go on. Finished with @hopetech brakes, @envecomposites DH bars, 30mm #syntace stem, ESI grips and @selle_italia slr kit carbonio saddle.


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  149. #149
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    On a personal basis after spending time on the 13, I think I am still going to prefer either 29 front 27.5 rear or 27.5. But we shall see.


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  150. #150
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    The DT Swiss rims I've spec'd for the wheel set on my g16 are on back order so they are holding up the build of mine. Really looking forward to trying it on my local trails when it's ready. All good things come to he who waits........

  151. #151
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    The new 29 specific 40 makes the mixer option more viable. Wonder when it will be available for joe public?

  152. #152
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    I'm waiting for Mojo to send an email saying the new G16 frames have landed. Either an all black ano frame or the raw with black decals and black linkage...

    Plan is to run 170mm+ travel f/r. Hoping to hear about this 49 or 40 29er availability. This whole Boost 20 means I need a for sure on the fork before getting a wheel set.

  153. #153
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    Organized a demo-day last Sunday at our local track...





    Vinc and his crew brought G13/G16/G19 in all sizes from S-XXL. Finally got some good runs on the G16 L/XL and G13 and G19... I'm very impressed and truly believe this is the route all geos will be going in the near future. Albeit I do have problems adapting to the 29 wheels, for me they just feel kind of unwilling to change direction once up to speed... On the other hand, if the first WC DH wins this year are on 29ers I sort of see 650b becoming obsolete.

  154. #154
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Raschaa I agree to an extent on 29. But I think that's partly a function of the G13 compromises Nicolai made. Take 2deg off the HA and artificially steepen the SA with the saddle and it improves a lot. Having built various custom and radical 29ers (which. Means the industry is just catching up) over the last 4 years I agree that they don't change direction as well at speed, some people like that. But that doesn't mean you can't throw one down the right track at daft speed and win races if you are a strong aggressive rider, like most WC racers. But I think the rider makes more difference than the wheels and these are marginal gains, it won't be a game changer and lesser riders suddenly win everything on bigger wheels.
    I think the 27.5/29 is the one to watch however. You should aim to try one back to back.
    We think the rear wheel does impact significantly on steering, the theory does back that up, and why you see passive rear wheel steering on cars, in addition on our timed runs the rear wheel makes little difference compared to the front (again the physics would back that up looking at the push/pull over obstacles), the lower weight allows better suspension performance with less unsprung weight and more clearance. For a rider st the back on very steep stuff.
    I don't think 27.5 will be obsolete. 29 is not great for smaller riders and despite what is being suggested also doesn't make up for quality suspension.
    I don't think they can't use 27.5/29 in the WC because of an obscure UCI rule that doesn't allow different size wheels. I wonder if anyone might try to flout it or if anyone would notice....it's not that obvious and a silly rule given you could just manipulate it with tyre sizes if you were being silly. I suspect it comes from road riding again.
    However you could use it in Enduro as it's non UCI
    GeoMetron will definitely be developing the 27.5/29 further and maybe I'll prefer that in the future. For now, 27.5 is my favourite but I would like a few fork changes to improve the situation....we may have to do that ourselves...
    I am open minded but I'd bet money based on past experience and my G13 (modified) testing to date that I'll either be on 27.5 or a 29/27.5 hybrid after this testing period, we shall see.
    This is the hybrid setup




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  155. #155
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    Yeah, the 29 front 650 rear idea does sound plausible and might just be the optimum compromise, I come from MX/Enduro, so I'm very open to different wheel sizes front/rear and my first DH bikes were modified with 24 rear to get that extra needed travel... the suspension folks now have to up their game in producing suitable 29er long travel forks. And thanks for all the input you're bringing here, keep it up, really interesting stuff!

  156. #156
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    by chance I could ride the g13 and g16 back to back and I found that besides the lack of a proper suspension I did like the 29er more.

    so now I'm curious if they build the g16 as a 29er Bike, in the near future

    I did a little math with the current g16 and a 160 mm 29er lyrik u should end up with 14 mm bb drop. ha 63 deg. I don't know if that is too high.

    now I did read the pinkbike review from Paul for the pole 140 and he would like the bb drop on the 29er Bike as a 27.5er as this would make steering more easy, how do you think about that

    I kinda like the hybrid idea too, I'm pretty interested too to hear your results.

  157. #157
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    nonsense
    Last edited by trader5; 05-02-2017 at 01:12 PM. Reason: wrong post

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    nonsense
    ??


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  159. #159
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    @the_pilot

    I've ridden the G13 twice (last time at Nicolai HQ Lübbrechtsen) and I've experienced the same thing! Think you have to have strong arms to steer this thing on a tight track at high speeds!

    Hybrid sounds intresting! Liteville did try this but i think they have abandoned it with their new 2018 models!

    Do you got pictures of your G13 hybrid, too?! The pictured one above looks like a G16!Did you try to fit an X2 with Offset bushings into the G13 standard Frame? I know Mojo did a G15 and have some left but only in size Large (Longest).

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Custom G13 is effectively a Custom GeoMetron that Chris produced last year. Paul at Mojo has a custom G13 with an X2 running about 150mm rear travel and he loves it.

    I personally think the Mojo GeoMetron in 170mm guise has the most flexibility as one bike being able to run 29 front/180 front/170 rear etc with just a touch more DH capability, but the !3 custom 150mm is so close and probably a slightly better long distance bike.
    I think it does come down to wheel preference here really.
    By the way I've spoken to Paul and he's got only 140mm at the rear and only to make the X2 fit!

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    by chance I could ride the g13 and g16 back to back and I found that besides the lack of a proper suspension I did like the 29er more.

    so now I'm curious if they build the g16 as a 29er Bike, in the near future

    I did a little math with the current g16 and a 160 mm 29er lyrik u should end up with 14 mm bb drop. ha 63 deg. I don't know if that is too high.

    now I did read the pinkbike review from Paul for the pole 140 and he would like the bb drop on the 29er Bike as a 27.5er as this would make steering more easy, how do you think about that

    I kinda like the hybrid idea too, I'm pretty interested too to hear your results.
    Sounds interesting! I've discussed this with Leo of Pole Bicycles too!

    Nicolai does not seem to like the Hybrid idea but at Liteville it worked quite well!

    I've attached a Liteville Scaled Sizing Guide from the Mk12 Generation of 2014/15! Now they do not seem to do this anymore cause you don't find any data on other wheel sizes than 27,5"!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-scaled-sizing.png  


  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    By the way I've spoken to Paul and he's got only 140mm at the rear and only to make the X2 fit!
    I was sure he told me 150mm, maybe it was when I asked about the front... I'll apologise personally for misrepresenting him when I pick up the proto XS/normaler /not-so-long that has now arrived



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  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Organized a demo-day last Sunday at our local track...


    ...

    Vinc and his crew brought G13/G16/G19 in all sizes from S-XXL. Finally got some good runs on the G16 L/XL and G13 and G19... I'm very impressed and truly believe this is the route all geos will be going in the near future. Albeit I do have problems adapting to the 29 wheels, for me they just feel kind of unwilling to change direction once up to speed... On the other hand, if the first WC DH wins this year are on 29ers I sort of see 650b becoming obsolete.
    Nice one! I've ridden the trails of Lübbrechtsen at the Nicolai Hausmesse! Would like to see such a testival in Siebengebirge too but thinks it would not be easy to get the permissions here!

    Think i'll soon have to get my spec fixed and order one!

  164. #164
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    The pictures one is a G16. Hybrid G13 is a mess angles wise because of Nicolai's approach to the design I.e kinda gentle on the changes from convention (in terms of head angle and seat angle). mojo checked it out when they arrived as it was hoped it could work.
    It's simple and effective on a Mojo G16 and the turn in and handling is very close to the 27.5 version but with the rollover speed of the bigger wheel on smaller bumps at the front, suspension favouring unsprung weight on the rear.

    Interesting if Liteville have abandoned it. I would say likely due to marketing confusion.

    That G16 is set up 155/160. You could run it 155/150 and still deliver a 61 HA with a SA around 76.5,l and 338ish bb, could be good actually. I might do one test with the fork reduced. Tho I do like a nice 61deg HA



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  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    The pictures one is a G16. Hybrid G13 is a mess angles wise because of Nicolai's approach to the design I.e kinda gentle on the changes from convention (in terms of head angle and seat angle). mojo checked it out when they arrived as it was hoped it could work.
    It's simple and effective on a Mojo G16 and the turn in and handling is very close to the 27.5 version but with the rollover speed of the bigger wheel on smaller bumps at the front, suspension favouring unsprung weight on the rear.

    Interesting if Liteville have abandoned it. I would say likely due to marketing confusion.

    That G16 is set up 155/160. You could run it 155/150 and still deliver a 61 HA with a SA around 76.5,l and 338ish bb, could be good actually. I might do one test with the fork reduced. Tho I do like a nice 61deg HA

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    Shame i couldn't try the "G15" aka "Geometron 29" yet cause Paul told me it would be the perfect compromise between Trail and Enduro bike!

    Asking Nicolai if a 29'' would fit the front of the G16 they said the would have to change the angles on the whole bike! Maybe i should buy a Standard G16 and convert the front to 29'' afterwards and compensate the different angle with an change of headset angle!

    Think it will be quicker at starting too, due do smaller circumference of the back wheel!

  166. #166
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    @the_pilot

    Thought the same too, but then i asked him and he said it's only 140 cause it is the one do it all bike for him and should do longer tours too!

    He now runs carbon wheels too!

    But think ist difficult on a XL Geometron to drop the weight below 14 kg without compromising durability of the components!

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Nice one! I've ridden the trails of Lübbrechtsen at the Nicolai Hausmesse! Would like to see such a testival in Siebengebirge too but thinks it would not be easy to get the permissions here!

    Think i'll soon have to get my spec fixed and order one!
    Maybe you can make it to our season opener next year. I believe our trail is pretty good for testing the G Nicolais....


  168. #168
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    They have different angles on the Nicolai G16 compared to the Mojo.

    You do need to make some adjustments to the bike but very few. Quite a few people are running 29 fronts.

    As shown above of course it makes it slightly slacker due to the front wheel lift and has a similar impact on the SA, but the impact on the BB is marginal and easily adjusted. You end up with a similar SA to the G13, to alter that move the saddle forward if it is an issue.
    The A2C is the same on a 160 29 as the 180 27.5's so no issue there, just the 12-15mm higher front.
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Maybe you can make it to our season opener next year. I believe our trail is pretty good for testing the G Nicolais....

    Sounds interesting! Where is it located?

    I've seen Nicolai does two bigger Testivals this year! First St. Andreasberg in Harz on 13th May and then at 7th October in Brilon again. The Trailground Brilon is quite nice, but the tracks are sometimes a bit odd!

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    They have different angles on the Nicolai G16 compared to the Mojo.

    You do need to make some adjustments to the bike but very few. Quite a few people are running 29 fronts.

    As shown above of course it makes it slightly slacker due to the front wheel lift and has a similar impact on the SA, but the impact on the BB is marginal and easily adjusted. You end up with a similar SA to the G13, to alter that move the saddle forward if it is an issue.
    The A2C is the same on a 160 29 as the 180 27.5's so no issue there, just the 12-15mm higher front.
    Yes, Paul told me!

    If it's that easy as you describe it, simply by slightly changing the steering angle (or keeping it like it is and living with a slightly higher front) and moving the saddle Forward the G16 with hybrid setup sounds like the best choice!

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    well i think the g16 with full 29 will work with a 150mm fork as they have the same a2c like they Specd it 559.

    but if you go for a bigger one you end up with like 62 deg ha and 10 mm bb drop. dunno how that works. you can get it to 20 with the bushings I think but that's with an 61 deg ha don't kwon how that performs. and 75 or something sa, I don't know if that pedals the way the normal g16 is doing.

    I d love to see the g16 with 29 and maybe the coming suntour durolux 29 with 170. that would be a tank. go 4 a full dh damper with 222x70. it should work good with a coil damper.

    or go 4 a tour version with the 216 air damper.

    I don't know why the did not spec the Angels with a 570 a2c fork. as this would allow easier tuning with the offset bushings in either direction.

    I have to say I like the 63.5 deg ha, I'm a little bit stuck to that.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    well i think the g16 with full 29 will work with a 150mm fork as they have the same a2c like they Specd it 559.

    but if you go for a bigger one you end up with like 62 deg ha and 10 mm bb drop. dunno how that works. you can get it to 20 with the bushings I think but that's with an 61 deg ha don't kwon how that performs. and 75 or something sa, I don't know if that pedals the way the normal g16 is doing.

    I d love to see the g16 with 29 and maybe the coming suntour durolux 29 with 170. that would be a tank. go 4 a full dh damper with 222x70. it should work good with a coil damper.

    or go 4 a tour version with the 216 air damper.

    I don't know why the did not spec the Angels with a 570 a2c fork. as this would allow easier tuning with the offset bushings in either direction.

    I have to say I like the 63.5 deg ha, I'm a little bit stuck to that.
    Would take a 'endurised' tour Version with 36 HSC/LSC EVOL 2018 / X2 2018! Full 29 would be great but i'm unsure it fits the Standard G16 or only the Mojo frame!

    And the hybrid sounds more promising to me!

  173. #173
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    The Mojo frame is essentially designed around the 569a2c 180mm 36 to deliver a 62 HA and 77SA
    The 160 29 fork delivers the same angles except the wheel lifts the front by 12-15mm and results in BB slightly higher than some (not all) prefer at 350mm with a 216mm shock in the 222 position.(155mm)
    Using bushings to get the bb down delivers the 61 ha (approx) and 76-76.5 SA. 61 steers better than the 64.5 of the G13 in some people's opinion
    I'll give a full spec and ride impression after the weekend.
    It's fully built now.


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  174. #174
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    cant wait to hear it.


    I'm on fire

    i maybe Wanted to spec it with a 170 fork

    there the a2c is about 580 that lifts the a bit to high plus correcting that is will result in a ha about 61 and a sa with 75 that might not pedals to well since I have an inseam of 1 m .

    just some thoughts

  175. #175
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    Pilot
    Enjoy
    N

  176. #176
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    Can't wait, too!

    160 would be enough for me with 155mm at the rear with the X2 of the G16!

  177. #177
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    170mm 29er fork? We can make the non ebike Fox that but not ideal in terms of stiffness and have to use 27.5 uppers, who has made a 170mm 29er that isn't a noodle?


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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Would take a 'endurised' tour Version with 36 HSC/LSC EVOL 2018 / X2 2018! Full 29 would be great but i'm unsure it fits the Standard G16 or only the Mojo frame!

    And the hybrid sounds more promising to me!
    Vincent assured me that a 29 will fit in the rear of G16...

  179. #179
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    Theres ist non right now, the durolux 2018 r2c2 will be Speced Witch 170 i assume
    the a2c about 583 which is the a2c of the 180 27.5.

    maybe rs will come with a 170 mm version of the lyrik. as the 27.5 has 180mm Max.

    @the_pilot
    do you know the a2c of the new fox 49 ?
    Last edited by trader5; 05-06-2017 at 01:46 AM.

  180. #180
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    @raschaa If you like it more nimble and agile take the L if you want to ride more Long epic tours take the XL! I'm in between sizes too and would take the smaller one everytime!

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    Hey Pilot,
    I know you love the 40, and I must try it because more stiffness has to be nice - but I don't find the 26 uppers noodly. (You'll recall that my 36 is built with 26 uppers for shorter offset (34mm?) and 27.5 lowers / 180 non ebike 20mm bolt through fork).

    Of course the 40 has a big offset so thats a change too - am I right (with the intended 27.5 wheel I mean)?
    According the CP the shorter offset on my own fork (26" CSU) provides more stability and the need to turn the bars more, thus an easier ride when threading the bike between tight trees on singletrack. I'd say that works well.

    How was the 27/29 test? On the 40's I presume?
    Oh dear, more wheels to buy!

    Have a good week

  182. #182
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    Waiting for the Hybrid verdict too!

    Nicolai themself has changed the G16 too like the Mojo pictured one page earlier!

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    ^Nicolai G16 is different than Mojo G16

    Mojo has: Longer wheelbase, shorter seat tube length, longer CS, slacker HTA, 83mm BB width, less stack

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    ^Nicolai G16 is different than Mojo G16

    Mojo has: Longer wheelbase, shorter seat tube length, longer CS, slacker HTA, 83mm BB width, less stack
    Thats true i was only referring to the chainstay which can now take 29''ers too!

    Still waiting for the tech sheets for the G16 '18 so i can get an offer for an complete G16 29" built with 36/X2 and so on!

    @the_pilot How is the uphill performance of a Mojo Geometron compared to a G13?

  185. #185
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    @tallguy it's better in my view but both climb great. The G13 would be solved with the slacker HA. I struggled a bit with lifting on the G13 on really steep stuff.
    If you are definitely going 29, I'd pay the extra for custom.
    Allow for the wheel lift and SA slackening without adjustment.
    Just get the G16 designed for 740mm dia wheels with a 338mm BB, use a 78 SA and 62.5 HA.
    Having said that it works great.
    Just need the 216 in the 222 position
    1 offset in the shock. 61.5 HA at that in the Nicolai version which is good, BB is approx 340mm.
    You may need to put the seat forword to reset SA.

    Or Mojo have some G15 specials left I think. Depends on size. Euro would help you there..

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  186. #186
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    Hi The pilot,
    What headset are you running to slack your head angle out? My bike with 40'S should be being built up next week, just wondering whether to slacken it further based on your opinion??

  187. #187
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    @pigglet13 Will you run a 29 or 27.5 front. And Mojo or Nicolai design?
    I'd suggest targeting between 61 and 62 deg. HA
    61 and under is lovely but requires more servicing of a 36 to keep it sweet. The 40 however seems much more tolerant, but sub 61 the offset and flop seem to increase as mentioned ( laser guided steering mind) as such is say a std Mojo would be spot on and Nicolai might benefit from a -1.
    If 29 front neither need a headset.


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  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    @tallguy it's better in my view but both climb great. The G13 would be solved with the slacker HA. I struggled a bit with lifting on the G13 on really steep stuff.
    If you are definitely going 29, I'd pay the extra for custom.
    Allow for the wheel lift and SA slackening without adjustment.
    Just get the G16 designed for 740mm dia wheels with a 338mm BB, use a 78 SA and 62.5 HA.
    Having said that it works great.
    Just need the 216 in the 222 position
    1 offset in the shock. 61.5 HA at that in the Nicolai version which is good, BB is approx 340mm.
    You may need to put the seat forword to reset SA.

    Or Mojo have some G15 specials left I think. Depends on size. Euro would help you there..

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    Already wrote with Paul about the G15's left! Only size "Longest"/L and unfortunately i definitely need at least XL.

    Think i'll have to wait for the techspecs for G16 '18 then (then it will fit 29ers), cause they said they can figure out a "29er G16" then and i will ask them about the optimisations you mentioned above!

  189. #189
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    Has Paul not got any XL 16s? Obviously that works because I have one!


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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    @pigglet13 Will you run a 29 or 27.5 front. And Mojo or Nicolai design?
    I'd suggest targeting between 61 and 62 deg. HA
    61 and under is lovely but requires more servicing of a 36 to keep it sweet. The 40 however seems much more tolerant, but sub 61 the offset and flop seem to increase as mentioned ( laser guided steering mind) as such is say a std Mojo would be spot on and Nicolai might benefit from a -1.
    If 29 front neither need a headset.


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    It's a mojo g16 running 40s and a 27.5 front wheel for the moment. The bike is a medium. I'd thought I'd probably be a large but it would have meant going to a 125mm dropper to accommodate my little legs! May run it with standard headset initially and then try a -1 for comparison. Not bothered about flop, this will be a bike for fast and steep riding.

  191. #191
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    Good to go then. What is your inside leg out of interest. Mine is 31" and I run a 150mm Transfer post with 165mm cranks and 1.5" spare on the seatpost.


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  192. #192
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    30 to 31 ish. I had the 150mm dropper slammed to the collar on the medium I demo'd
    Toby reckoned the large would have been too big based on my leg length. The joys of being 5.10 but with little legs. The medium certainly didn't feel overly long though.
    The bike I tried had 170mm cranks but I've ordered 165s for my bike so it'll be interesting to see what difference that makes.

  193. #193
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    Hmmm. Pretty much the same size as me, 5'10, 30-31 leg. Was it a 2017 model (shorter ST) and what cranks. Std Mojo is 170min and I use 165mm, 160-165 is ideal for our height.
    Also current transfer has low stack collar compared to Dos. What seat post was it. Slammed to collar is fine as long as it fits. I think you get 15mm from crank and ST. I can measure mine if you like.


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  194. #194
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    I'm gonna measure my inside leg accurately later but I'm sure it's 30.5" in bare feet.


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  195. #195
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    The demo bike was the older frame but with a transfer dropper.

  196. #196
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    older frame has taller ST. Longest/L is now 10mm smaller than old Longer/M
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  197. #197
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    Mine set up as 29er along with Chris's and his secret fork and lead!

    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0924-1-.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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  198. #198
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    Bummer, that wasn't mentioned. May have got away with a large then. Ahhh well too late now.... there was a cock up with my frame which was supposed to be black yet when unpacked was raw. They've had it anodised black for me so doubt they'll take too kindly to me asking for a large now...... DOH!

  199. #199
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    I dunno, if it was the only one Mojo had then I don't see why not, many are indifferent to the colour. Hope I've not dropped them in the muck now! ...Obviously it's a benefit of being embedded in the design process and being very anal about numbers that enables me to know this shit. I often have to remind CP of the geo.

    You have nothing to lose by asking, you are the customer, the problem at the moment is getting enough frames of the right size not their colour! I also know someone interested in a frame that size (M) and ano black and 2017 so call them or let me know if you want me to have a word.
    Chris wouldn't be happy if you had doubts about choosing the right frame or had made a decision without being aware of all the info, the whole ethos is to put people on the right bike and provide great service.
    Of course you may prefer the M and the L could be too big but...
    For clarity the current 2017 has a 460mm ST in a L and a 440 ST in M
    The 2016 bikes (no adjustable chainstay and 73mm BB) the M had a 450mm ST and the L a 470mm.
    3 things make a big difference, crank length, pedal depth and saddle stack. a low stack saddle can make over 10mm difference, the cranks the same and pedals 5mm.
    you can see on that pic where my seat post is.
    Where are you?
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  200. #200
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    what cranks were you going to use? I don't think you would regret the shorter bike, it is more manoeuvrable and easier to lift and if you are only going deep and steep it won't be a bad thing.
    The HT is shorter so allows more room for adjustment with the 40 than the Longest which is pretty wide and limits adjustment unless you use the dropped crown (which I did) my old one should be at Mojo if you wanted that one (the dropped crown) you won't be trying to drive the front in the same way as if you were using it a fair bit on more moderate terrain.
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