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  1. #201
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    how is the hybrid on the trail ?

  2. #202
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    Just checked my inside leg and it looks like 31 using the book method but substituting the book for a spirit level. The 170mm cranks definitely felt smoother and despite being shorter actually felt easier to push bigger gears on when spinning than the 175s I've been using on my other bikes so I've ordered 165s on the mojo G16.

    In a quandary now as I could definitely get a 150mm dropper in the 2017 large based on my other bikes. I've always ridden a large or XL frame including mondrakers, seat tube length being the deciding factor.

    Its 6 hours each way to Newport and I won't have time to get back down before going to the Alps which is what I've ordered the bike for so I guess I need to decide sharpish whether to stick with my order or take a punt on a large. Aarrrgghhh.

  3. #203
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    Now I feel guilty! If you can keep the feeling from your head you won't regret your choice I'm certain.
    If you want to dm me your location if you aren't so far from me perhaps we could meet in the middle and you could put the question to bed for yourself.
    If you are confident you won't second guess yourself go with your first choice. There is 30mm in a bar roll and you can always add -1 angleset and extend the chainstay to give the same length as a std L. I know the angles work well.


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  4. #204
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    Thanks very much for the offer of a meet up, really kind.
    After a good think over night I'm happy to go with the medium as an alps/downhill/park bike. I run a 29er as a day to day trail bike and I'm pretty sure once I get the mojo I'll want to build a longer and lighter 29er for day to day use so will probably want a large for that application as it'll be doing a lot of climbing. So rest easy, you've not chucked a spanner in the works!

  5. #205
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    I think that's a good decision and makes me feel better!
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    how is the hybrid on the trail ?
    I like mine a lot. It rolls over things pretty much like a 29er although to be fair a long wheelbase with 160mm of travel is going to be pretty good over bumps anyway. The back wheel is pretty much along for the ride-it doesn't hang up on steps for example.

    The bike feels to have a nice balance in corners since you're very much between the wheels (or in the bike) so you can weight each end to control traction easily. As others have said it climbs really well-the front end doesn't lift up unless you want it to which helps when it gets steep.

    What really surprised me was how manoeuvrable the bike is. I don't think it's any more of a handful in tight low speed sections than other (very) roughly similar bikes (i.e. 160mm travel bikes) that I've owned or borrowed, even though the wheelbase on the Nicolai is at least 130mm longer. Although I have to admit that I'd have difficulty believing this if I hadn't actually ridden the bike.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Mine set up as 29er along with Chris's and his secret fork and lead!

    Attachment 1136529
    Looking great! Yours is the one in front? Brake dics are Hope? XT rear mech?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Looking great! Yours is the one in front? Brake dics are Hope? XT rear mech?
    Xtr mech, Hope brakes


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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    I like mine a lot. It rolls over things pretty much like a 29er although to be fair a long wheelbase with 160mm of travel is going to be pretty good over bumps anyway. The back wheel is pretty much along for the ride-it doesn't hang up on steps for example.

    The bike feels to have a nice balance in corners since you're very much between the wheels (or in the bike) so you can weight each end to control traction easily. As others have said it climbs really well-the front end doesn't lift up unless you want it to which helps when it gets steep.

    What really surprised me was how manoeuvrable the bike is. I don't think it's any more of a handful in tight low speed sections than other (very) roughly similar bikes (i.e. 160mm travel bikes) that I've owned or borrowed, even though the wheelbase on the Nicolai is at least 130mm longer. Although I have to admit that I'd have difficulty believing this if I hadn't actually ridden the bike.
    I experienced the same! The first time i rode the G13 on tight and twisty trails of Lübbrechtsen it opened my eyes!

    How about the weight of your G16 29er?! 15 kg?

    I think mine in XL while surely be close to 16 kg!

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    I experienced the same! The first time i rode the G13 on tight and twisty trails of Lübbrechtsen it opened my eyes!

    How about the weight of your G16 29er?! 15 kg?

    I think mine in XL while surely be close to 16 kg!
    They certainly ride well!

    I haven't weighed my G16 very accurately but with the basic scales I have it is about 15kg. It would be pretty easy to make it lighter without affecting performance or strength- carbon bars, ESI grips, maybe a different saddle, carbon cranks. But to me the weight saved vs. cost isn't worth it at least as far as the cranks are concerned. I also have Zee brakes, super gravity casing tyres and Time pedals which are all relatively heavy parts but are things I prefer using on bikes like this.

  11. #211
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    Mine is 14.3kg but does have carbon wheels, light saddle ESI's but also an ebike fork that is 250g heavier than the std fork.
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  12. #212
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    @the_Pilot

    how is the hybrid?

  13. #213
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    I don't know! I've not ridden it yet. I'll post some pics and set up this afternoon. Riding it tomorrow.


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    Last edited by the_pilot; 05-13-2017 at 04:21 AM.
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  14. #214
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    Hybrid rides great. Really nice. I personally prefer this version over the 29. I think it feels more intuitive. The front end steering at 61.5 HA and 44mm offset is a really nice balance of calm yet responsive. It feels very much like the 27.5 with perhaps some roll over benefit but I can't quantify that yet without more testing.

    The big change for me is how the rear steers, it requires no thought or effort to follow the front where as with the 29 rear I felt I had to physically and consciously steer the rear.
    I felt it was more manoeuvrable in the tight stuff but no less stable.

    Really nice. Needs more testing on wider terrain but great so far.Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_0934.jpg
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Hybrid rides great. Really nice. I personally prefer this version over the 29. I think it feels more intuitive. The front end steering at 61.5 HA and 44mm offset is a really nice balance of calm yet responsive. It feels very much like the 27.5 with perhaps some roll over benefit but I can't quantify that yet without more testing.

    The big change for me is how the rear steers, it requires no thought or effort to follow the front where as with the 29 rear I felt I had to physically and consciously steer the rear.
    I felt it was more manoeuvrable in the tight stuff but no less stable.

    Really nice. Needs more testing on wider terrain but great so far.Click image for larger version. 

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    Wheelbase on XL now over 1,34m? Or did this compensate with the now smaller rear Wheel?!

    Looks very slack with 61,5°! Is this the small Hope Tech Enduro or the 35W at front?!

  16. #216
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    Thats a Longest and definitely over 1340mm eh I'd say. I'll measure it.
    Not sure on front wheel. I'll be fitting a Stans Bravo this week and putting the tech back on the G13. So lost some weight.
    Wheel makes no difference to the WB measurement. overall length different measurement.


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  17. #217
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    I see theres an ad at the head "Pivot, the world's most advanced enduro bike" nah, that would be the Mojo Geometron IMO. Pedal up, fly down, grip like a limpet. Love it ';~}

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    I see theres an ad at the head "Pivot, the world's most advanced enduro bike" nah, that would be the Mojo Geometron IMO. Pedal up, fly down, grip like a limpet. Love it ';~}
    Would always choose a good Aluminium Frame made in Germany with solid bushings over a taiwanese carbon frame which only 'looks better' (i prefer the clean industrial style lines of an Nicolai) and weights some 1-1,5kg less!

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Thats a Longest and definitely over 1340mm eh I'd say. I'll measure it.
    Not sure on front wheel. I'll be fitting a Stans Bravo this week and putting the tech back on the G13. So lost some weight.
    Wheel makes no difference to the WB measurement. overall length different measurement.


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    I ask for the wheelbase cause i have to make it fit a modified roof carrier rack!

    Is this the 'small' 23mm Tech Enduro up front or the 35W?

  20. #220
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    I'd say it's the smaller one. Not paid much attention to it! it fits in a VW transporter carrier rack. My brothers fits on a Thule roof carrier, just with a -2 and 27.5 at 1350mm WB


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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I'd say it's the smaller one. Not paid much attention to it! it fits in a VW transporter carrier rack. My brothers fits on a Thule roof carrier, just with a -2 and 27.5 at 1350mm WB


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    Lucky people, who got a Transporter or Caddy Maxi! My Superb II is such a big car, but a tad too small for such a long bike!

    Great to see a Nicolai Ion 16 GPI in the EWS pitwalk Video from Madeira!

  22. #222
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-img_2766.jpg
    This is the bike from Pilots post (longest -2 headset 1350 wheelbase)on a Thule 591 bike carrier, will also easily go in the back with the seats down and wheels removed.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noskills View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the bike from Pilots post (longest -2 headset 1350 wheelbase)on a Thule 591 bike carrier, will also easily go in the back with the seats down and wheels removed.
    Perfect! This is the one i wanted to order but Thule themself said its limit is 1300mm wheelbase!

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Great to see a Nicolai Ion 16 GPI in the EWS pitwalk Video from Madeira!
    Link to the video? I'd like to see it

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    Yep that one has longer chainstays too.


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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Link to the video? I'd like to see it
    https://youtu.be/V8N1vhM8ir4

  27. #227
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    Up and running!



    I'm lovin' it! Finally a bike that I feel comfortable on. In 2-3 weeks time I'll probably never be able to go back to those mini bikes everybody is riding
    I have no problems riding my tight switchback trails, just gotta nail those lines. One thing I do notice now is that my post doesn't have enough travel. Saddle dropped is now at a place that it bothers me when hitting jumps, gotta look into something with 170-200 travel...

    greets
    ra

  28. #228
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    To the pilot, slightly off topic but do you know why Jack Reading is running 275 rather than 29" given what you guys have found from your testing?

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Up and running!



    I'm lovin' it! Finally a bike that I feel comfortable on. In 2-3 weeks time I'll probably never be able to go back to those mini bikes everybody is riding
    I have no problems riding my tight switchback trails, just gotta nail those lines. One thing I do notice now is that my post doesn't have enough travel. Saddle dropped is now at a place that it bothers me when hitting jumps, gotta look into something with 170-200 travel...

    greets
    ra
    Hia Greets,
    Cool bike. Be ready for comments out on the trail.
    Enjoy it. I'm confident that you'll get to love it even better.

    Yeah, after a few weeks on my Geometron Longest I got back on my old Helius AM (Large) for a short spin and it felt like a BMX (when standing).

    I am on my second Geometron (bit more rear travel). This time,
    I found a -1.5 degree (Works) head angle adjuster (thanks Pilot) made it steer even better, go figure!
    No weaving around when climbing even at close to 61 degrees head..
    I also have the 26" crown /steerer unit on my Fox 36/180. (less offset than the 27.5 CSU) and apparently that makes it not only more stable, but easier to weave through the trees. (Bars need to turn more to "steer" so threading through tight trees is easier - a top tip from Chris Porter).
    HAVE FUN.



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  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by fartymarty View Post
    To the pilot, slightly off topic but do you know why Jack Reading is running 275 rather than 29" given what you guys have found from your testing?
    Jack has tested 275/29 and really likes it but rules need clarity as a risk he could be disqualified. WC not the place to risk it. Suggestion is UCI require same wheels both ends. Road bike legacy I think or maybe historic reaction or the 24/26" thing?

    Nic didn't implement our recommendation and used a std seat angle on the G19 so clearance requires the longer Swingarm of the Mojo XL GeoMetron as the Mojo basically has the Bb setup of the G19. It's ready to fit and he will test it for sure, just not racing it at FortBill
    It allows use of either 275 or 29.


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  31. #231
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    @mudfish yeah, I'm running a 26r CSU on the Metric as well and have thought about how that might positively influence handling, at least I can't find a downside... Angle set is on the short list, gotta try that!
    I'm really impressed with the new kinematics on the rear. A quantum leap from my 1st gen Ion 16 (26) plus the Mojo Float X2 is absolutely amazing Right now working on a midvalve setup for the Metric to get it up to par with the rear.

    @ pilot IIRC the UCI doesn't allow two different wheel sizes because of a ruling going back to time trials road bikes that were running crazy sizes and made the bikes very difficult to handle and very accident prone,

  32. #232
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    @mudfish yeah, I'm running a 26r CSU on the Metric as well and have thought about how that might positively influence handling, at least I can't find a downside... Angle set is on the short list, gotta try that!
    I'm really impressed with the new kinematics on the rear. A quantum leap from my 1st gen Ion 16 (26) plus the Mojo Float X2 is absolutely amazing Right now working on a midvalve setup for the Metric to get it up to par with the rear.

    @ pilot IIRC the UCI doesn't allow two different wheel sizes because of a ruling going back to time trials road bikes that were running crazy sizes and made the bikes very difficult to handle and very accident prone,
    Yep. General principles para one.

    Personally I think it's superseded by mountain bikes being excepted but it is ambiguous.

    "§ 2 1.3.004
    UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS Technical innovations
    Except in mountain bike racing, no technical innovation regarding anything used, worn or carried by any rider or license holder during a competition (bicycles, equipment mounted on them, accessories, helmets, clothing, means of communication, etc.) may be used until approved by the UCI. Requests for approval shall be submitted to the UCI, accompanied by all necessary documentation."

    However it seems the UCI are not for being forthcoming yet...


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  33. #233
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    @the_pilot Did you had time for more testing on wider terrain with the hybrid?!

  34. #234
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    Yep. Really like it. Front feels good. A nice balance of steering weight/grip. Ebike fork works well.
    Feels like the 27.5 in corners, intuitive back end steering. Not found any downsides yet.


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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Yep. Really like it. Front feels good. A nice balance of steering weight/grip. Ebike fork works well.
    Feels like the 27.5 in corners, intuitive back end steering. Not found any downsides yet.


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    what is the bb height of the hybrid ?

    and I'm curious about the a2c for the fork .

    do you know about the ha ?

  36. #236
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Of course I know all that, I'm a total geek

    BB height of my hybrid in 170mm setting is 340mm with a single offset bush at the front.i always adjust to deliver between 330 and 340mm depending on travel.
    We have settled on 330mm to 340mm as the static bb height.
    Important to remember all sorts of things affect the dynamic height which is what really matters.
    I am testing the full 29 with 170mm travel too and 350mm bb height but different shock settings and chainring to get to the right dynamic bb height and pedalling.

    A2C is 569mm same as the 180mm 27.5 fork.
    The head angle is 60.8deg with 44mm offset fork
    This is a function of both the need to get the bb height right (this is the reason for the offset bush) and the extra 12mm vertical of the 29 wheel.
    SA is approx 76.5 static effective.

    Wheelbase is 1350mm

    Feels spot on, steering is lovely, climbs great, carves great.

    Someone needs to clarify the WC DH rules so they can use them...


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  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Of course I know all that, I'm a total geek

    BB height of my hybrid in 170mm setting is 340mm with a single offset bush at the front.i always adjust to deliver between 330 and 340mm depending on travel.
    We have settled on 330mm to 340mm as the static by height.
    Important to remember all sorts of things affect the dynamic height which is what really matters.
    I am testing the full 29 with 170mm travel too and 350mm bb height but different shock settings and chainring to get to the right dynamic by height and pedalling.

    A2C is 569mm same as the 180mm 27.5 fork.
    The head angle is 60.8deg with 44mm offset fork
    This is a function of both the need to get the bb height right (this is the reason for the offset bush) and the extra 12mm vertical of the 29 wheel.
    SA is approx 76.5 static effective.

    Wheelbase is 1350mm

    Feels spot on, steering is lovely, climbs great, carves great.

    Someone needs to clarify the WC DH rules so they can use them...


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    for which kind of trails are you using the hybrid set up?

    I thought about using the hybrid for park and mini dh .

    and maybe a full 29 g16 for all day trail riding cause I think with your hybrid set up the sa is too slack for me.

  38. #238
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    I use it for everything. I'm surprised you think the SA is too slack. 77 is the std SA in low, this equates to a 5mm movement of the saddle forward in the rails to be back at 77deg.

    I think it pedals just as well as the 29 but steers more intuitively. I'm less keen on the rear steering on full 29. It's fine, normal I guess, but I prefer the hybrid steering.
    We may increase the SA on the Mojo bike to accommodate the 29 without any compromise.
    I ride mine up some steep stuff here, singletrack and parks. Not too much 'bikepark' jumping style, more trail centre.


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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I use it for everything. I'm surprised you think the SA is too slack. 77 is the std SA in low, this equates to a 5mm movement of the saddle forward in the rails to be back at 77deg.

    I think it pedals just as well as the 29 but steers more intuitively. I'm less keen on the rear steering on full 29. It's fine, normal I guess, but I prefer the hybrid steering.
    We may increase the SA on the Mojo bike to accommodate the 29 without any compromise.
    I ride mine up some steep stuff here, singletrack and parks. Not too much 'bikepark' jumping style, more trail centre.


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    Equals my kind of usage!

    Lets see what the future brings for long travel 29ers!

  40. #240
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    We shall see with 27.5 again winning in DH ;-)
    As mentioned the Mojo G16 is fully capable at 170mm. The bb is higher than WE prefer. For the travel it is totally comparable with others.

    So for example the lauded 2018 Intense Carbine has the same BB as the G16 29 170mm but less travel.
    It also has the same chainstay length
    It just happens to be far too steep HA and far too slack SA and the same reach in XL as the XS design GeoMetron.
    *Opinions are those of the poster
    I'll set mine up at 170mm, whack in the bravo carbons and give it a go.

    As mentioned the geo for the 29 is as per a Mojo G16, 62 HA, 77 SA etc.
    CS can be altered between 445mm and 455mm with additional inserts.


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  41. #241
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    Has anyone tried how/if a steel shock works in the G13?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlk-law View Post
    Has anyone tried how/if a steel shock works in the G13?
    What is a "steel shock"? Do you mean a coil spring perhaps? I'd say X1 all the way. The linkage is designed for a fairly linear air shock AFAIK. At least it works that way for my G16.


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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlk-law View Post
    Has anyone tried how/if a steel shock works in the G13?
    Paul Shepherd of Mojo has tested a DHX2 in his 140mm custom G13 and was not happy with it and changed back to the X2!

    But i heard of some G16 where it worked well!

  44. #244
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    So you guys are getting 61* HTA with offset bushings, angle set or both?
    The current G16 will fit 29" rear wheels without issue? Bushings bring the geo back in line with the 650b wheels?
    Not really able to find many 29er forks with less than 51mm offset. Any word on real world release dates for the Fox 49?

  45. #245
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Fox 49, 60mm offset 'ing crazy! Such old thinking.

    Yes G16 runs 29 no issues.

    I use the 216x63 shock in the 222 position in full 29 mode to get the right BB based on what we think is best.
    It is slacker slightly slacker than the 27.5.

    Using the 27.5/29 I use one offset bush to achieve the same thing, adjust the BB height.
    The angles are the same. Again slacker than the 27.5 std.

    Neither set up is slacker than the bikes Chris and I have been running for a long time now as we always ran anglesets.

    The BB is Lower than other 'low' long travel 29ers being released.

    I'm going to test it at this BB height but when Chris did he hated it stating it just doesn't turn in properly.

    There is a huge difference in turn in (particularly at the rear) between the 29 and the hybrid as mentioned previously.

    Should have said Mojo supply the forks with 27.5 upper CSU and 29 lowers.

    You can just get a 29 lower and fit to the 180mm 27.5 fork at 44mm offset.
    Just then change the travel to 160mm.



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  46. #246
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    Wondered what the offset on the 49 would be since the 40 650b is 52mm. I don't like/trust the FOX QR15 system. Have a 15/20mm 36 29 RC2 on a current bike I could swap over as a temp solution.

    I ordered two offset bushings to go along with the 222mm shock and 29" wheels. Hopefully I didn't screw this up. 😂😂
    Else I'll be needing to swap out a new shock

  47. #247
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    I'll do some measurements tonight. Have you just ordered it? Was talking to Paul yesterday and he was heading to get a frame shipped to Canada.

    Why would you need to use 15mm QR? the 36 is 20mm no probs. The new 49 is 20mm boost.


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  48. #248
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    My frame is with Canada customs as we speak.

    Seems like all the new forks (Öhlins, DVO Diamond) are coming Boost 15/20. Would like to only buy a centre lock front hub once.

  49. #249
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    Surely QR isn't the only option?

    Worst case scenario you get a 27.5 rear wheel and adore the ride ;-) Honestly the steering difference is night and day.

    Maybe less if you intuitively try to use your hips to steer as is traditional, then I guess it's normal, but it's not necessary on the hybrid. That helps me as I get more time to focus on what not to hit
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  50. #250
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    Is the same wheel size Regulation a Problem at local (non UCI) Enduro/Downhill races too?!

    Would like to see a hybrid in Action on track!

    Maybe there will be long travel 29er from works soon, with more and more new 29er enduros emerging!

  51. #251
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    a long travel 29er from works?, and do you mean more 29er enduro bikes? They are all the same though. All carbon (forgive the pun) copies of geometry in the main from what I see.

    Orbea, Spesh, SC HT LT, Intense Carbine..

    At least the SC has a decent BB even if it is still very short and very steep ;-)

    I must go and measure the BB on my 170mm 29er G16...
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  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    At least the SC has a decent BB even if it is still very short and very steep ;-)

    I must go and measure the BB on my 170mm 29er G16...
    Yes, go do this!

    I almost went Nomad4 until I saw the Metric shock.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Yes, go do this!

    I almost went Nomad4 until I saw the Metric shock.
    Ok. I have to fetch my kids and eat but I'll do this then the final mod later

    G16 With a 29x 2.3 Morso and a 29x 2.35 MM

    160mm front Fox 36, 44mm offset 29
    170mm rear X2 , 1 offset bush

    HA 62.5
    ESA 76.9


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  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Yes, go do this!

    I almost went Nomad4 until I saw the Metric shock.
    BB 353mm

    I will for the second offset bush later and post revised figures

    I estimate
    62 HA
    76.3 SA (centre saddle)
    348mm BB

    I would move saddle forward 5mm to give 76.8 SA

    Those are pretty good actually.

    I'd run 30% sag at the rear and front and support with progression and damping if needed for a slightly lower dynamic ride height.

    Well, I'd run 27.5 rear, but for this that's what I'll test it with.

    Need to test the new NSL with my daughter too



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  55. #255
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    I think both bushes to hit similar Bb to carbine but it is longer travel.



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  56. #256
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Ok. 170mm 29er
    morsel/ MM
    2 offsets, HA 62 deg, SA 76.1 deg, BB. 350mm

    Static of course.

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  57. #257
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    I meant that hopefully Nicolai Germany makes their own Long travel Enduro, like the Geometron 29 that Mojo made but not only as a modification from another bike but like the G13 as a brand new bike!

    SC is quite long compared to Orbea and Co! 505 (498 for the LT) reach at XXL and a stack of 641 (646)!

  58. #258
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    Maybe.

    It's easy. No real changes from the Mojo set up.
    I spoke about it last week with Chris.

    But I much prefer the hybrid 27.5/29. so not a big deal for me.



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  59. #259
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    Hey Geometron fans.
    I've been running a full stealth 27.5 Mojo model for 2 years now, well, actually I am on my second frame, as I went for last years non boost longer chainstay variant to get more rear travel.
    I was a pretty early adopter, my first ride was on the same day as Pilot's at FOD where we both got to meet (and chat at length with) the passionate designer, Mr. Mojo, Chris Porter. That man thinks about geometry a LOT.
    Last Autumn I was loaned a 2.8 Nobby Nic to test by my pal Loamranger, for sure the sidewalls are too thin to keep it on, but it seemed good to at least try the + upfront concept as it fitted Ok in my 36.
    It was interesting, I tested mainly on rooty wooded singletrack and liked the way it steered which would seem to chime into Pilot's 27.5R/29F experiences. (Bigger diameter, slightly slacker).
    Maybe with a shock bush to get the BB back down it would have been even better.
    I always run the BB setting low.
    BUT that tyre was really bouncy. Tough to get the pressure right I eventually settled on 12-14 as I recall (it was about 6 months back). Nice and grippy for a not so treaded tyre, it carved well and "floated" over stuff, but it would occasionally buck off a larger root or rock and if in a corner disconcertingly step sideways. Rider error, maybe I needed to adapt, to be fair, but it wasn't easy to control.
    Typical symptoms of a plus setup perhaps, I think.
    So, off it came.
    Why am I writing this then?

    Well, a recent chat with Guy Kesteven, fellow Northerner and seasoned bike tester, made me want to test the Mavic Claw upfront.
    (Up til now I'd been mainly running Mavic's frankly superb Charge on their XL 23 internal rim. Thats a nice tyre for sure, since I tried it my Magic Mary trailstar has been hanging up. It only comes off in winter for the Maxxterra or Maxxgrip WT Shorty.

    So I fitted the Claw 2.5 (designed for rims 28 internal rims and up) onto my 35mm internal Derby and I bloody LOVE IT.
    Running about 14 psi. For sure I'd run more psi for hard cornering and rocks tho.
    Still testing.
    Comfort - nice
    Damping - amazing
    Turning - wow
    Rolling - nice
    No negatives so far.
    Claw is dual compound (and comes up flattish in the middle and quite rounded on the edges [and very big] even on the 35 rim) so, I guess the centre 3 rows of knobs are used almost all the time, the soft edge knobs only contacting the ground on decent lean or off camber tracks. Nice idea and quite a change from "squared" wide tyres which grip lovely but can drag big time on a wide rim especially.

    Anyhow, just a bit of feedback. If you're on a Geometron and fancy a slightly slacker feel with great carving without the expense of a new fork and wheel (29) then maybe the Claw, or even a 2.6 like the DHF is worth a test?




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  60. #260
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Gratuitous 29er pic then
    170mm version

    Strange that a 62deg HA bike doesn't look that slack to me now. (I have got used to 61)
    I think that's also the big wheels giving the illusion.




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  61. #261
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    Ooh.

    What have we here then.




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  62. #262
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    That looks great. Love it!

  63. #263
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    Children's bike?!

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Gratuitous 29er pic then
    170mm version

    Strange that a 62deg HA bike doesn't look that slack to me now. (I have got used to 61)
    I think that's also the big wheels giving the illusion.




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    Looks amazing!

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Children's bike?!
    Smaller persons bike or normal persons crazy fun bike

    Designed for people 140cm to 165cm tall.



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  66. #266
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    Hi there,
    Was just wondering if any of you have come up with a decent solution to fit a water bottle to the Geometron G16? I saw someone in the Alps with a bottle with an angled head/cap that fitted right at the front of the triangle with enough clearance for the shock. He got away before I could ask him! And no, I don't want an aero bottle
    Cheers!

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by dy1an View Post
    Hi there,
    Was just wondering if any of you have come up with a decent solution to fit a water bottle to the Geometron G16? I saw someone in the Alps with a bottle with an angled head/cap that fitted right at the front of the triangle with enough clearance for the shock. He got away before I could ask him! And no, I don't want an aero bottle
    Cheers!
    Interesting question! I saw only two solutions then: a bottle cage mounted to the top tube with cable straps or velcro fastener (which is not the prettiest solution) and a bottle mounted under the down tube (which is right in the Position to be fired with dirt from the front Wheel).

    I prefer to use a EVOC hip pack instead and get less bike on the bike!

  68. #268
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    For a long time I've thought a light bike is better. But I've never chosen my bike based on that. However I did think that taking the bottle off would be a good thing (so, water in a pack). However, now I learn that a heavier bike has much better behaved suspension. (Mr Porter has been experimenting with lead additions as you'll see in the occasional shot of his bike. ).
    So, I too would quite like to add a bottle. Down by the BB is likely the best idea and choose a type with a full cap so you can drink when it's muddy. Next - how to keep all that mud that was chucked up into the bottle off your hands? It's definitely not nice when it gets into the grips.
    Even in the event that a heavier bike is better (theoretically) I guess the camelback type solution is best really.
    And as I like to carry a couple of litres on decent outings that's beyond bottle size anyway.

    Someone needs to design a triangular bottle to just fit the G16 frames - kinda like those frame bags the trekkers use.

    Maybe there's a top tube solution up towards the stem.

    Good question.


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  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Smaller persons bike or normal persons crazy fun bike

    Designed for people 140cm to 165cm tall.



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    Slopestyle bike from the looks!

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    For a long time I've thought a light bike is better. But I've never chosen my bike based on that. However I did think that taking the bottle off would be a good thing (so, water in a pack). However, now I learn that a heavier bike has much better behaved suspension. (Mr Porter has been experimenting with lead additions as you'll see in the occasional shot of his bike. ).
    So, I too would quite like to add a bottle. Down by the BB is likely the best idea and choose a type with a full cap so you can drink when it's muddy. Next - how to keep all that mud that was chucked up into the bottle off your hands? It's definitely not nice when it gets into the grips.
    Even in the event that a heavier bike is better (theoretically) I guess the camelback type solution is best really.
    And as I like to carry a couple of litres on decent outings that's beyond bottle size anyway.

    Someone needs to design a triangular bottle to just fit the G16 frames - kinda like those frame bags the trekkers use.

    Maybe there's a top tube solution up towards the stem.

    Good question.


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    Good point, too!

    Have you seen the Bike Radar Video on heavier bikes are better?! They tested a bike with added lead weights!

    I experienced the same with riding a Ultra light Ghost Riot trailbike/Enduro and it simply generated much lesser grip than the G13 in comparison even with my 100kg on it!

    Yes i was amazed about the 1,5l bladder on my EVOC hip pack and in case of Ventilation its classes above the Camelbak, but i heard the fit of the Camelbak is better especially at downhill!

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Slopestyle bike from the looks!
    Or that!


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  72. #272
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    There are a few stock G13's available at Mojo young Paul advises me, across all sizes.

    If anyone is interested get in touch directly with Mojo. I gather there are deals to be done, they ship pretty much worldwide.


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  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    There are a few stock G13's available at Mojo young Paul advises me, across all sizes.

    If anyone is interested get in touch directly with Mojo. I gather there are deals to be done, they ship pretty much worldwide.


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    Thanks for the info! But i will choose a full 29er or a hybrid based on the Geometron/G16! Thanks again for the testing of the hybrid solution and the excellent feedback!

  74. #274
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    Hey tallguy, as you know that's also my whip of choice but for general info y'know..


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  75. #275
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    Anyone riding a tire insert like Huck Norris on his Geometron/G13/G16 and can report about his experiences?!

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    Hey tallguy, I am recently back from Whistler and I ran some Cush Cores. They are amazing. All that is advertised about them seems to be true assertions that I experienced. Handle bar buzz is way down, grip is way up. A win win.

    I have only used them in this gravity context though. However I did run only EXO tyres with the inserts, they weight about the same as double downs in the end.

    I have been surprised at just how good they were. FYI

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    Hey tallguy, I am recently back from Whistler and I ran some Cush Cores. They are amazing. All that is advertised about them seems to be true assertions that I experienced. Handle bar buzz is way down, grip is way up. A win win.

    I have only used them in this gravity context though. However I did run only EXO tyres with the inserts, they weight about the same as double downs in the end.

    I have been surprised at just how good they were. FYI
    Have chatted to Mac Ramsay who ran the Nicolai Ion 16 GPI at EWS Madeira and he runs 'Huck Norris' in his Sixth Element 40mm wheels and is very happy with it!

    Think i will try both Cush Cores and Huck Norris, cause they seem to be the best systems on the market, the one with easier installation/deinstallation (Huck Norris) and the other with better damping (Cush Core)!

  78. #278
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    You can now go Long(er) on the stock G13 with a custom Mojo suspension DHX-2 shock. 15mm longer to be exact, giving the option of a 150mm front and 148mm rear trail 29er Contact Paul at Mojo suspension or pm me for more info.


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  79. #279
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  80. #280
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    Ooooh




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  81. #281
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    Shakedown ride for the NotSoLong

    She loved it. Fits great.




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  82. #282
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    What is the max tire that the 27.5 model can take?

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    What is the max tire that the 27.5 model can take?
    Please tell me you're not thinking of plus tyres

    The GeoMetron works a little differently to other bikes when initiating and in corners. You need to lean the bike more.

    The Std one will swallow a 2.5. The Mojo version should take more due to the wider BB

    I can try and slide in 3.0 and 2.8 I have in the garage. I'll let you know.

    I guess you're more likely thinking 2.6 or 2.7.

    I don't like it with wide tyres/rims on the rear.



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  84. #284
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    I was thinking about tires like the DHF 2.6 or 2.8.

    I currently have a Mondraker Crafty XR+ and I am quite happy with the combination of forward geometry & wider tires (DHF 2.8) but in the near future I see myself getting either a Geometron or Pole and I know that the Pole accepts 29 & 27.5+ but I like the Geometron more.

    I know that I can get a Geometron in 29 as well but I simply can't justify the extra cost vs the standard 27.5 version.

  85. #285
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    The Mojo GeoMetron can be configured either 29 or 27.5.
    Also the Nicolai or Mojo is quite different to the Mondraker in execution due to the big difference in HA, SA, CS and overall weight distribution.

    I'll check if the 2.8 wtb I have goes in tomorrow.


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  86. #286
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    I know that they are different and this is why I am considering it. As an evolution of my current bike.

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    I know that they are different and this is why I am considering it. As an evolution of my current bike.
    Apologies if I came across wrong, I'm happy you're considering one of course!

    As I say I'll check this am.
    It won't be exact as I only have a qr wheel with the big tyre on a big rim but it'll give me an idea. There is more than 3" clearance in yoke l, just need to see what it looks like with a tyre.

    I only have a G13 Nicolai version. The G16 Nicolai (as opposed to Mojo) has a narrower BB.


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  88. #288
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    No problem. Thank you for the feedback. I just wish I was in UK so I could demo one.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    You can now go Long(er) on the stock G13 with a custom Mojo suspension DHX-2 shock. 15mm longer to be exact, giving the option of a 150mm front and 148mm rear trail 29er Contact Paul at Mojo suspension or pm me for more info.


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    These are great news! But like the Specialized Enduro Coil i think its too harsh for normal trail riding! But will make a great race enduro.

  90. #290
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    I'd be shocked (forgive the pun) If Chris built a shock that was harsh. Goes against his principles. He is always in search of grip and in the UK where its often soft you don't want a harsh back end.
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  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I guess you're more likely thinking 2.6 or 2.7.

    I don't like it with wide tyres/rims on the rear.
    What's your definition of wide tyres/rims? Are 2.4WT tyres and 30mm internal width rims considered wide or narrow?

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I'd be shocked (forgive the pun) If Chris built a shock that was harsh. Goes against his principles. He is always in search of grip and in the UK where its often soft you don't want a harsh back end.
    That's true! So i think the DPX2 would the ideal way to make the G13 a great race Enduro bike!

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    What's your definition of wide tyres/rims? Are 2.4WT tyres and 30mm internal width rims considered wide or narrow?
    30mm internal 2.35/2.4 fine WT ok too in that rim for me. 30+ internal and 2.4 up I'm less keen on. Personal thing.


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  94. #294
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    Nice.

    Somewhat disappointed by the new Formula Nero DH fork; 50 and 56mm offsets... :|

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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Rubbish. I don't thunk they do testing just carry on as they have in the past.


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  96. #296
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    2 things:
    1.: definitely getting that DHX2 for my G13
    2.: anyone know the bearing size the G13 uses?

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Rubbish. I don't hunk they do testing just carry on as they have in the past.
    Waiting for the entire industry to go back to 26" clunkers.

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    What's your definition of wide tyres/rims? Are 2.4WT tyres and 30mm internal width rims considered wide or narrow?
    Hi Punky,
    I'd say that's quite wide.
    I've been Geometron Longest (6'2" and 175lb) almost 2 years mow.
    I like the 34mm Derby (650b) with Mavic Claw Pro 2.5 upfront. (Or Shorty WT)
    But I stick to 2.3/2.35 (like DHRII or Shorty) and rims like DT471EX or Mavic XL at the back.
    30 internal should be fine upfront. WT, great.

    Wide rims (28 mm + internal) and tyres (2.4+) are about low prsssure for me and I dont think that suits the rear.

    HIH.


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  99. #299
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mlk-law View Post
    2 things:
    1.: definitely getting that DHX2 for my G13
    2.: anyone know the bearing size the G13 uses?
    Call Mojo Suspension Hoodoo
    in Wales,

    They will fix you up with the shock tuned to suit - and the bushings.

    And if you mean frame bearings, they are angular contact in the Nic frames, so not "normal" why not get those from Mojo too, I would.
    I believe there are special tools to fit them. There might be a workaround tho.

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    After 5 Months .................
    My First G16 Build
    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-21200615_10155331815636141_858244651600495922_o.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-21199708_10155331815911141_6577732759986075554_o.jpgNicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread-21272699_10155331815756141_5714773329436465843_o.jpg

    Nicolai G16
    FOX 36 180mm
    Float X2 222x70
    Transfer
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  101. #301
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    Nice! The simplicity of the straight tubes, gusseting and industrial look is really growing on me. At first I didn't really like the straight tubes as it looked like something from the 90s but man these Nicolais are starting to look good

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    thx!

  103. #303
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    Exciting times with both the coil upgrade from Mojo/Nicolai UK for the G13 making it a G14 1/2 / 'G15' and the G15 from Nicolai Germany itself with X2/36.

    Next week Nicolai Germany in person of Kalle himself will announce some changes. What already was published is that they will focus on the Geolution models in the future cause the demand for the 'normal' ones has dropped.
    Last edited by tallguy3001; 09-07-2017 at 01:09 AM.

  104. #304
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    Meanwhile






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  105. #305
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    Nice weapon Adriano


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  106. #306
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    Can anyone with a lowered 40 provide a little more detail on how you accomplished the lowering? I'm guessing cut down spring shaft? I'm seriously considering a 40 for my G16.

  107. #307
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    Sorry for the ignorance, but what's the difference between a Geometron13 and Nicolai G13? Look like the same bikes but different websites. Geometron is custom? I'm confused..

  108. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better View Post
    Can anyone with a lowered 40 provide a little more detail on how you accomplished the lowering? I'm guessing cut down spring shaft? I'm seriously considering a 40 for my G16.
    You don't need to cut anything! Just balance the chambers
    Use 80/110psi pos neg for 85kg rider as a starter and maintain the (approximate) ratio but balance the pressure to suit your weight/style

    Pressurise the fork normally to the required neg pressure then compress it (to close the transfer port with the pump attached, release the pressure to desired level with the pump valve. Remember to release to full travel and check regularly as the compression will give a false reading.
    It's actually very simple and very effective.
    That's to 180mm travel.



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  109. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Sorry for the ignorance, but what's the difference between a Geometron13 and Nicolai G13? Look like the same bikes but different websites. Geometron is custom? I'm confused..
    There is none! Except the G16/Geometron the Mojo Nicolai UK and Nicolai GER Bikes are identical!
    The Geometron (the british G16) has a different geometry to the Ion-G16!

    And to confuse you a bit more:

    'Geometron' is the Mojo Nicolai name for the Ultra Long reach geometry and Nicolai itself calls it 'Geolution' and the bikes simply "Ion-G.."!

  110. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    You don't need to cut anything! Just balance the chambers
    Use 80/110psi pos neg for 85kg rider as a starter and maintain the (approximate) ratio but balance the pressure to suit your weight/style

    Pressurise the fork normally to the required neg pressure then compress it (to close the transfer port with the pump attached, release the pressure to desired level with the pump valve. Remember to release to full travel and check regularly as the compression will give a false reading.
    It's actually very simple and very effective.
    That's to 180mm travel.



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    That makes sense. I'd still probably want to do something a little more permanent long term, but that sounds like a good option to get started and figure out how low I want to go at least. I've got access to a lathe, shortening the spring shaft shouldn't be too hard.

  111. #311
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    Mojo use this method. Nothing short term about it. I'm wondering whether to keep my 40's or not! I love them, but I like less offset with the 29 front.


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  112. #312
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    There is none! Except the G16/Geometron the Mojo Nicolai UK and Nicolai GER Bikes are identical!
    The Geometron (the british G16) has a different geometry to the Ion-G16!

    And to confuse you a bit more:

    'Geometron' is the Mojo Nicolai name for the Ultra Long reach geometry and Nicolai itself calls it 'Geolution' and the bikes simply "Ion-G.."!
    The Mojo GeoMetron also has a different BB/ST interface and width, a different swing arm, different bearing spacing and a different stiffness profile compared to the Nicolai version having the same BB/bearing config as the G19.

    The GeoMetron was the first bike made by Nicolai for Mojo and to a Mojo design.
    Nicolai then adopted the concept and applied it to the range as a whole moving away from their previous models' geometry, calling this 'evolution' across the range Geolution.
    Resulting in the the hardtails and the subsequent G13 etc.
    G for Geolution,...



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  113. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    The Mojo GeoMetron also has a different BB/ST interface and width, a different swing arm, different bearing spacing and a different stiffness profile compared to the Nicolai version having the same BB/bearing config as the G19.

    The GeoMetron was the first bike made by Nicolai for Mojo and to a Mojo design.
    Nicolai then adopted the concept and applied it to the range as a whole moving away from their previous models' geometry, calling this 'evolution' across the range Geolution.
    Resulting in the the hardtails and the subsequent G13 etc.
    G for Geolution,...



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    So Nicolai makes bikes for GeoMetron to a different spec and/or geometry than what he sells, but they're still made in Germany from the same factory?

    Also, Paul says the "suspension units" for the GeoMetron are custom. Is that the shock tuning, linkage, both?

    The options here are a bit overwhelming!

  114. #314
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Yes, Mojo version made in the same small Nicolai factory in Lübbrechtsen Germany.
    The G16 is the only model that is different, G13 and G19 are Nicolai models.
    You can tell a Mojo as the seat tube gusset has Mojo not Ion cnc'd

    All of the Bikes from Mojo, whether their G16 GeoMetron or the Nicolai Ion G13 have custom suspension units, tuned for rider and rider preferences.
    Nicolai direct supplied frames/bikes ordered with Fox suspension have the same attention to tuning and the units are supplied to Nicolai by Mojo.

    The lever/curve was designed by Mojo anyway and the G13 mirrors the curve just shorter travel.
    Great video on the curves which are the same on Mojo and Nicolai G16.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDoUX7-ThEc






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  115. #315
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    Pilot, is this similar to what you used to be able to do with Marzocchi Monster Ts? You could open the air bleed screw, compress the fork and lock the air bleed screw which gave you negative pressure in the fork. It had the best small bump compliance I have ever felt however you lost an inch of travel.

    If you can do the same with a 40 and get the same feel it must be amazing.

  116. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by fartymarty View Post
    Pilot, is this similar to what you used to be able to do with Marzocchi Monster Ts? You could open the air bleed screw, compress the fork and lock the air bleed screw which gave you negative pressure in the fork. It had the best small bump compliance I have ever felt however you lost an inch of travel.

    If you can do the same with a 40 and get the same feel it must be amazing.
    Yep, its dreamy. A shame they use so much offset.

    Looking at making a set of triple clamp 160-180mm 36's that can run 29 or 27.5 with adjustable offset from the clamps. I think it could be the best of both worlds.

    Stiffness of the ebike 36 with the feel, compliance and volume closer to a 40.



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  117. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Yep, its dreamy. A shame they use so much offset.

    Looking at making a set of triple clamp 160-180mm 36's that can run 29 or 27.5 with adjustable offset from the clamps. I think it could be the best of both worlds.

    Stiffness of the ebike 36 with the feel, compliance and volume closer to a 40.



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    Why do that over just making a set of shorter offset crowns for the 40?

  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better View Post
    Why do that over just making a set of shorter offset crowns for the 40?
    I/we already have shorter offset crowns for the 40 (I can go + or -10mm in 5mm steps) but Chris informs me the different wheel sizes in the 40 are handled with the offset in the lower which makes it a pita if you also want to use 29 front wheel sometimes like me.
    The 36 offset is in crown so easy to just switch wheel sizes with a lower change.


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  119. #319
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    What a shame Fox didn't put the 40 fork offset into the crowns.
    Yeah. I'm using a 36 fork with a 26" SCU on my Geometron (650b lowers and wheel, with 61.5 head angle) and it feels really great with the lesser offset*. AND it's a straightforward swop, Mojo offered me it as an option. (*26" SCU has less offset than the standard 650 36 fork, I mean).
    The 40's massive offset must make quite a difference to feel over a 36 equipped bike.
    Is this right - more fork offset basically = faster steering response = less bar movement needed to turn.
    Makes you respect those WCDH riders even more. "Fast" steering at those speeds!!
    Happy Trails


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  120. #320
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    'Fast' is relative. More pronounced below 62deg HA.


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  121. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    The Mojo GeoMetron also has a different BB/ST interface and width, a different swing arm, different bearing spacing and a different stiffness profile compared to the Nicolai version having the same BB/bearing config as the G19.

    The GeoMetron was the first bike made by Nicolai for Mojo and to a Mojo design.
    Nicolai then adopted the concept and applied it to the range as a whole moving away from their previous models' geometry, calling this 'evolution' across the range Geolution.
    Resulting in the the hardtails and the subsequent G13 etc.
    G for Geolution,...



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    You are the expert! Nothing to add to this!

  122. #322
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    For clarity I meant the Mojo version has the same bearing/BB interface as a G19, which is one key reason it's different, so 83mm BB.
    We did that to allow the same bearing spacing as the GPI as it was clear when testing the GPI that it provided more stiffness and also allowed more tyre clearance. The 83mm BB gave a good chainline with a normal crankset and a Boost rear.



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  123. #323
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    Hi pilot , because you are the expert in the field around the ion 16 geometron, i would like to have your opinion. I have a mojo g16 of 2016 with a headangle of 63,5 in low. Would it be interesting to place a angleset of 2? And if i should, do i need to make more changes? Thanks !

  124. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingeske View Post
    Hi pilot , because you are the expert in the field around the ion 16 geometron, i would like to have your opinion. I have a mojo g16 of 2016 with a headangle of 63,5 in low. Would it be interesting to place a angleset of 2? And if i should, do i need to make more changes? Thanks !
    I recommend it.
    Didn't change anything else
    I have a -1.5 in mine. Mines a 2016 too. I believe it's 61 now as I have the 180 fork
    Rides nicer that my 2015 ( that one was std. i.e. was without the works performance -1.5 headset)


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  125. #325
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    61 head angle? I think that I read somewhere that after 63 the forks tend to bend rather than use their travel efficiently.

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingeske View Post
    Hi pilot , because you are the expert in the field around the ion 16 geometron, i would like to have your opinion. I have a mojo g16 of 2016 with a headangle of 63,5 in low. Would it be interesting to place a angleset of 2? And if i should, do i need to make more changes? Thanks !
    If it is 63.5 in low you must have a 170mm fork in there, it should be closer to 63deg with the 180mm Fox or an equivalent axle to crown fork.

    If you have the 180mm fork I would try to stick to -1.5deg If you can I would suggest but -2 will work equally as well, I have used both and like both. We have found that 62deg is a little more kind on fork bushes.
    Below 62deg does increase the need for regular lower services (lube) and potentially more frequent bushing replacement, but there are many factors.

    If you have the 170mm fork length then again either will work well but I'd stick to -1.5 if you can as a great balance between steering feel/turn in and fork servicing.

    I run the 2017 model without an angleset as we reduced the HA in the Mojo to 62 with a 180mm 27.5/160mm 29 fork.

    My previous versions 2015/2016 I always used either a -1.5 or -2 angleset.



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    Do you actually ride anything else other than straight lines? I am a big fan of Porter & Geometron but what type of riding are you doing with 61-62 HA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Do you actually ride anything else other than straight lines? I am a big fan of Porter & Geometron but what type of riding are you doing with 61-62 HA?
    Everything, literally, as most others are. I use it for all day rides, short blasts, flatish woodsy singletrack to DH days.
    Tim at Mojo rides 80mile days with 1000m ascending and descending on his as well as racing DH on the same bike.
    It's not the HA, it's the overall package as I've said many times, you can't take one parameter as the measure of how a bike works. For example it feels like it steers faster in terms of initiation than steeper bikes due to the influence of flop, but you have to mitigate that for climbing, so weight distribution is different, rider position is different etc etc.



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  129. #329
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    Do you have any videos of the trails you ride? Honestly I would be really interested to see what type of riding requires 61 HA.

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    No videos from me but be assured I ride everything from tight singletrack in the local forests to Enduro trails. It handles tight stuff no problem. Thinking angles is misleading. An earlier bike (far shorter) with a 65 head felt way too slack. It's a balance thing.


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  131. #331
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    My heads 61.5 approx. this is FOD an XC trail nice and fast on the G16 (not me riding) https://youtu.be/dIyibCmOE6Q crikey the trails look tame on video. My local : https://youtu.be/iTjWckSlMSc (again not me)


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    Don't get me wrong guys. I love long forward geometry bikes (I own a Mondraker and considering a Geometron or Pole for the future) but I just don't see the benefit of such slack head angles (61-62) for general riding.

    For example in the videos above I haven't seen anything that requires such a slack and long travel bike but maybe I am mistaken.

    And I can't understand what more will you get from further slackening an already slack bike to 61-62? What is that you were missing with 63? Is there a real need and benefit or are you just trying to have such an extreme bike because you can?
    Last edited by gpgalanis; 09-20-2017 at 10:31 PM.

  133. #333
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    thanks for the info guys!
    which brand and type of 1.5 angleset would you recommend. I have a
    superstarcomponents Slackerizer Angle Headset - 2 Degree. (Slackerizer Angle Headset - 2 Degree - Superstar Components)
    would that work with my 180mm fork? Or do I need a angleset with a lower lower cup?
    Cheers!!

  134. #334
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    Gpgalanis. I thought you wanted to see that it was good for XC type riding. It is. UK downhill has some decent tracks. Google Forest if Dean DH. Both Pilot and I tide there.
    I found the -1.5 made it turn in better. (Surprising and Contrary to www opinion). Pilot is your man on this. He understands geometry properly. The 17/18 bike comes standard slacker.
    It's your choice man.


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  135. #335
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    Oops. That's Forest Of Dean!


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    Quote Originally Posted by dingeske View Post
    thanks for the info guys!
    which brand and type of 1.5 angleset would you recommend. I have a
    superstarcomponents Slackerizer Angle Headset - 2 Degree. (Slackerizer Angle Headset - 2 Degree - Superstar Components)
    would that work with my 180mm fork? Or do I need a angleset with a lower lower cup?
    Cheers!!
    The headset cups in fixed type angle adjust headsets (i.e. not swivelling on cups like an Angleset) are specific to certain head tube lengths. I use Works Performance.


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  137. #337
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    My works headset has an EC upper and ZS lower.


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  138. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Do you have any videos of the trails you ride? Honestly I would be really interested to see what type of riding requires 61 HA.
    As mudfish said classification is HA is far too simple. It isn't a question of needing 61deg. I think that's why so many have misunderstood it
    That, along with the other angles/setup and where it puts the rider, how it generates grip on the front, drifts in balance without biting for mortals.

    I don't video trails so I don't but where are you from, perhaps I can try and describe them. my local woods are fairly flat, you can generate so much grip at the front and on the bike railing flattish corners is so much fun and predictable.

    I have more fun on a moderate trail on this than I did on my 70deg XC bike a few years ago, both do the job on a trail like that, as does my CX bike at 69deg HA, just very differently.


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  139. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    As mudfish said classification is HA is far too simple. It isn't a question of needing 61deg. I think that's why so many have misunderstood it
    That, along with the other angles/setup and where it puts the rider, how it generates grip on the front, drifts in balance without biting for mortals.

    I don't video trails so I don't but where are you from, perhaps I can try and describe them. my local woods are fairly flat, you can generate so much grip at the front and on the bike railing flattish corners is so much fun and predictable.

    I have more fun on a moderate trail on this than I did on my 70deg XC bike a few years ago, both do the job on a trail like that, as does my CX bike at 69deg HA, just very differently.


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    Once you go Geometron all "normal geometry" bikes pale into insignificance.
    ';~}
    It's the balance.
    Not the reach
    Not the chainstays
    Not the head angle
    The package
    The grip even on mild trails is amazing
    And when it's steep it carves amazingly too.

    Pilots local trails are mild but he flies on the DH too. Secret super steep trails in the Welsh woods. No problem.





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  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post


    Once you go Geometron all "normal geometry" bikes pale into insignificance.
    ';~}
    It's the balance.
    Not the reach
    Not the chainstays
    Not the head angle
    The package
    The grip even on mild trails is amazing
    And when it's steep it carves amazingly too.

    Pilots local trails are mild but he flies on the DH too. Secret super steep trails in the Welsh woods. No problem.





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    I do ride a lot of other stuff yes, but I think the usual question is about milder trails.

    Finale in 2 weeks


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  141. #341
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    I was out with my wife and daughter the other week on the new. NotSoLong for riders 145cm to 165cm. Both of them are loving it

    That's mine in the background with 40's on it on our semi local track at Cannock in the U.K., it's a 'red' trail, fast single track, not particularly gnarly apart from braking bumps but great fun on the GeoMetron. Just as rideable on a rigid singlespeed, but way less fun on one


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  142. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Don't get me wrong guys. I love long forward geometry bikes (I own a Mondraker and considering a Geometron or Pole for the future) but I just don't see the benefit of such slack head angles (61-62) for general riding.

    For example in the videos above I haven't seen anything that requires such a slack and long travel bike but maybe I am mistaken.

    And I can't understand what more will you get from further slackening an already slack bike to 61-62? What is that you were missing with 63? Is there a real need and benefit or are you just trying to have such an extreme bike because you can?
    I think the slacker head angle steers better, far better, more grip - on flat corners even.
    here's a decent trail we ride, bit more gnarly: https://www.pinkbike.com/video/243778/
    [again . not my video]
    I feel the G16 does it all, climbs well, grips well, inspires confidence.
    HIH

  143. #343
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Don't get me wrong guys. I love long forward geometry bikes (I own a Mondraker and considering a Geometron or Pole for the future) but I just don't see the benefit of such slack head angles (61-62) for general riding.

    For example in the videos above I haven't seen anything that requires such a slack and long travel bike but maybe I am mistaken.

    And I can't understand what more will you get from further slackening an already slack bike to 61-62? What is that you were missing with 63? Is there a real need and benefit or are you just trying to have such an extreme bike because you can?
    Not at all. If you read through this thread or my posts on stw I do into some detail about the relationships between the angles.

    But again you only mention the HA. I think you would have to ride one.

    The short answer is that below 63 HA the flop/trail/HA change the way the bike corners and grips at the front, it’s one reason why DH. Bikes and all Moto Enduro bikes use similar angles.
    But again it’s about how the whole bike works.

    We don’t change the 2017 version of the Mojo bike. The basic HA is 62deg with 180 27.5.

    I normally use a 29 front at 160mm and just under 62deg with 44’m offset.

    I think you would have to ride one to get it but no, I see no reason to try and brag about the HA. We have tried the bike at different angles and as low as 59deg with fork offsets between 56mm and as low as 37mm.

    A Mondraker is long ETT but the reach is a lot smaller, the HA a lot steeper, the chain stays shorter, the balance quite different, they feel nothing like a GeoMetron or to. Lesser extent (but very similar execution) Pole.
    The steering is VERY different on a Mondraker compared to a GeoMetron. That’s not necessarily better, just different.


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    Last edited by the_pilot; 09-23-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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  144. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Yep, its dreamy. A shame they use so much offset.

    Looking at making a set of triple clamp 160-180mm 36's that can run 29 or 27.5 with adjustable offset from the clamps. I think it could be the best of both worlds.

    Stiffness of the ebike 36 with the feel, compliance and volume closer to a 40.



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    That would be the bees knees!

    I'm looking at the Formula Selva now. It's about half price of a 36 CSU conversion.

    Marty, you could likely buy the 49 air spring if you don't like the idea of balancing the air spring. Or machine like you want...

  145. #345
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    Thank you guys for the feedback!

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I was out with my wife and daughter the other week on the new. NotSoLong for riders 145cm to 165cm. Both of them are loving it

    That's mine in the background with 40's on it on our semi local track at Cannock in the U.K., it's a 'red' trail, fast single track, not particularly gnarly apart from braking bumps but great fun on the GeoMetron. Just as rideable on a rigid singlespeed, but way less fun on one


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    Looks great even in this small sizes! But i think my wife would only ride the Ion-G16 E-Boxx if i buy here one! But it's a really good looking bike (for an ebike)!

  147. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    I think the slacker head angle steers better, far better, more grip - on flat corners even.
    here's a decent trail we ride, bit more gnarly: https://www.pinkbike.com/video/243778/
    [again . not my video]
    I feel the G16 does it all, climbs well, grips well, inspires confidence.
    HIH
    Look at the video Mojo Bikes posted or german Enduro rider Cornelius Hoberg shredding his G16! These bikes fly, although you will think they won't be agile looking at the sheer size!

  148. #348
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    Hi, all! What is the length of the rear brake hose on Mojo GeoMetron? Thanks

  149. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinDe View Post
    Hi, all! What is the length of the rear brake hose on Mojo GeoMetron? Thanks
    Depends on size of course, region of 1.5 M on my Longest. My Hope brake came 2M I think so covered it easy. I'd rather fit a too long hose then make sure I routed it just right, check the bar turn and trim to a tidy length. So length is set by fitting not by measuring.

    To get the hose under the suspension on the downtube the end has to be removed anyway.


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  150. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Depends on size of course, region of 1.5 M on my Longest. My Hope brake came 2M I think so covered it easy. I'd rather fit a too long hose then make sure I routed it just right, check the bar turn and trim to a tidy length. So length is set by fitting not by measuring.

    To get the hose under the suspension on the downtube the end has to be removed anyway.


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    Ok, will need to get a new hose so. Thanks

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  151. #351
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    Would a 50mm stem work well on Geo16 with 160mm 29er? Does it affect steering and better to go 30mm or it's down to preference?

  152. #352
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    We would recommend 30mm or 35mm. It will affect steering yes. I wouldn’t go above 40mm. But it is personal preference.


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  153. #353
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    Ah, Ok.. The 50mm I have is a no go then. Think hope do 35mm one.. Do I need to change or add anything to 160mm 29er front setup on a new frame? 155mm rear travel.

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  154. #354
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    Hope do a 35mm, Renthal a 33mm, syntace a 30mm. There are a few.
    Add a single offset bush to the shock to lower the BB to compensate for the small increase from the front and good to go.
    You might be ok without the offset bush, Chris and I both use it and feel it rides better, but it is personal preference. it’s not a high BB. Should be 340mm with the bush fitted.
    Make sure you don’t cut the steerer short. You will find there is a big difference in feel between bar heights so keep at least 40mm in spacers plus the stem to begin with. Maybe start with 20mm under and 20mm over. Play about with it over a few weeks/quite a few rides as you will get more used to the bike and get a better feel for it.
    Still leave some adjustment when you do cut it further as you may lift it if you go to somewhere really steep or the opposite if somewhere mellow.


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  155. #355
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    Great, thanks for all the info! Where do I get the offset bush? Sorry, new to this.

  156. #356
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    Nicolai/Mojo GeoMetron build/riding/Development Thread

    Where are you based? Do you have the frame? Has it been shipped. Nicolai should be able to pop one in to suit the shock if from them. Chris at Mojo can supply them. There are a few sellers. Just need to make sure it matches the shock and also they are front/rear (lever or down tube end specific) being slightly different widths.


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  157. #357
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    Ireland. Just ordered the frame/ shock from Paul. Should be here next week all going well. I'll mention that to him in next email. If won't get it done no big deal.. What width rear tyre works well? Would 2.35 be a good choice or go bit wider? Also, I'll run tech enduro 29er front wheel and planning on getting same wheel as 27.5 for rear.. would that be a good choice?

  158. #358
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    Decent wheel choice yes. 2.35 fine for the rear too. Just let Paul know you want a couple of offset bushes (one front one rear) that way it gives you flexibility.
    I’d ask him to fit one before he ships it then it’s done for you for the 29 front wheel, just ask him to leave the std bush in there with the mech hanger etc.. Tell him I (phil) suggested it as per the set up we use for 29 front. He might have already planned for it.
    Paul can do you a good price for a 35mm Hope Stem too if you order it with the frame.



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  159. #359
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    Great, we'll do that! Thanks!

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  160. #360
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    If you need any help just pm me.


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  161. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    If you need any help just pm me.


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    still riding the Hybrid ?

    did you test a full 29 ? Does it work with a 222 shock ?

    I maybe planed to set up the Bike as a hybrid for park and shuttle rides and maybe full 29 with the short shock for cross country.

    if they get my frame ready. I 'll report.

  162. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    still riding the Hybrid ?

    did you test a full 29 ? Does it work with a 222 shock ?

    I maybe planed to set up the Bike as a hybrid for park and shuttle rides and maybe full 29 with the short shock for cross country.

    if they get my frame ready. I 'll report.
    Yes and yes. I do ride mine both long and short travel 29 and also Hybrid depending on use. I tend to use the hybrid and short travel 29 pretty much as you’ve described you want to use it.
    It works well with the 222 as a 29 but you do need two offset bushes to get the B.B.right. It’s fine in terms of SA but make sure you have a 44mm offset fork in that mode not any more offset. It is slack. Again works well, but if you use it in long travel 29 mode for extended periods keep an eye on the bushes, you will need to service the lowers much more often to keep them sweet .

    61.5 HA and below puts more stress on the bushes in a 36 and they wear more quickly.

    The short travel 29 just with the 216 shock in 222 position is spot on. As is the hybrid with one offset bush in either travel mode and the correct chip setting.


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  163. #363
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    Pilot,

    Does the stock G-16 work with 29R? The CS on G-13 and G-16 seem to be the same but do you need a shorter shock to avoid the wheel rubbing the frame?

    If you can use the same bike I would have thought the G-13 is a bit redundant.

    This probably isn't the right thread but have you guys done any more testing on the Pinion frame? Do you see this as being the future or are we stuck with rear mechs forever.

  164. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by fartymarty View Post
    Pilot,

    Does the stock G-16 work with 29R? The CS on G-13 and G-16 seem to be the same but do you need a shorter shock to avoid the wheel rubbing the frame?

    If you can use the same bike I would have thought the G-13 is a bit redundant.

    This probably isn't the right thread but have you guys done any more testing on the Pinion frame? Do you see this as being the future or are we stuck with rear mechs forever.
    Mojo not pursuing the Pinion. Not the ideal solution for us.
    Gearbox...still looking/tinkering and believe that will be a huge leap in performance of the bike as a whole ( suspension performance, availability (as opposed to reliability as the mech itself is reliable) & longevity due to mechanical wear) etc so no, not stuck with the rear mech.



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  165. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Yes and yes. I do ride mine both long and short travel 29 and also Hybrid depending on use. I tend to use the hybrid and short travel 29 pretty much as you’ve described you want to use it.
    It works well with the 222 as a 29 but you do need two offset bushes to get the B.B.right. It’s fine in terms of SA but make sure you have a 44mm offset fork in that mode not any more offset. It is slack. Again works well, but if you use it in long travel 29 mode for extended periods keep an eye on the bushes, you will need to service the lowers much more often to keep them sweet .

    61.5 HA and below puts more stress on the bushes in a 36 and they wear more quickly.

    The short travel 29 just with the 216 shock in 222 position is spot on. As is the hybrid with one offset bush in either travel mode and the correct chip setting.


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    nice Good to hear. that it works

    where do you get a 29er fork with that offset all I can buy is 50 mm and greater.

    it's a pitty nicolai didn't made the g16 for a 29er version for 2018, as a freeride 29er and fit a more common shock size for the g13 and use it as cross country.

    but with the g15 they just created something in the middle not very progressive.

  166. #366
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    They did. Or Mojo did...
    It is an ideal 155mm rear/160mm front 29er with great angles and handling. (More progressive than most other 29ers, the closest is the Pole (who also now say you can use either wheel size)
    Mojo advertise their G16 as either 27.5 or 29 or Hybrid (you can do the same with the Nicolai version).

    The 175mm setup is still more progressive than anything else, we feel it needs the two bushes for the B.B. height to be at its best.
    Why would you build a new model for the sake of two bushes?

    On the fork. You just need someone who will supply a 27.5 CSU (upper) on a 29 lower fork, Mojo do that.
    Or just buy a 29 Lower as well as a 27.5 fork you can just swop them over and have a 170mm or 180mm fork. No need to change anything. The ‘new’ 2018 marketing is b’llox, you’ve always been able to run 170mm 29er.
    Over 170mm the bush overlap gets a bit small and it might be a bit flexible With more wear.

    I’ve asked about some shock lever changes to make the swop to 29 with longer travel more specific.


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  167. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    They did. Or Mojo did...
    It is an ideal 155mm rear/160mm front 29er with great angles and handling. (More progressive than most other 29ers, the closest is the Pole (who also now say you can use either wheel size)
    Mojo advertise their G16 as either 27.5 or 29 or Hybrid (you can do the same with the Nicolai version).

    The 175mm setup is still more progressive than anything else, we feel it needs the two bushes for the B.B. height to be at its best.
    Why would you build a new model for the sake of two bushes?

    On the fork. You just need someone who will supply a 27.5 CSU (upper) on a 29 lower fork, Mojo do that.
    Or just buy a 29 Lower as well as a 27.5 fork you can just swop them over and have a 170mm or 180mm fork. No need to change anything. The ‘new’ 2018 marketing is b’llox, you’ve always been able to run 170mm 29er.
    Over 170mm the bush overlap gets a bit small and it might be a bit flexible With more wear.

    I’ve asked about some shock lever changes to make the swop to 29 with longer travel more specific.


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    hehe that sounds quite expensive buy 2 forks to get 1 😀

  168. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader5 View Post
    hehe that sounds quite expensive buy 2 forks to get 1
    Mojo only charge for the one ordinarily plus the work if individually ordered, not if with a frame.


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  169. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Mojo only charge for the one ordinarily plus the work if individually ordered, not if with a frame.


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    Sounds like a great idea! But i think the stock G15 with 160/150 mm of travel should do about fine! Even if the better is always the enemy of the good, as we say in Germany!

  170. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Sounds like a great idea! But i think the stock G15 with 160/150 mm of travel should do about fine! Even if the better is always the enemy of the good, as we say in Germany!
    But the HA on the G15 is ONLY 64d, so you need a -2 headset, right? I think the stock travel is 145mm on the G15 too.

  171. #371
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    Very true


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  172. #372
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    We currently have more travel out of the G13 at 148mm


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  173. #373
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    Given the zero changes required to run 155mm/160mm 29 on the Mojo G16, or the Nicolai version, and the fact that is 62HA as stock, not sure why you’d go a G15!
    All it appears to do is reduce your wider options.


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  174. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Given the zero changes required to run 155mm/160mm 29 on the Mojo G16, or the Nicolai version, and the fact that is 62HA as stock, not sure why you’d go a G15!
    All it appears to do is reduce your wider options.


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    On the Nicolai site, the G16 is listed as 63.5 HA but that's with a 160-170 fork, vs 64d with a 150-160 fork on the G15, so the actual frame HA is the same on both frames, no?

  175. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    We currently have more travel out of the G13 at 148mm


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    Sadly only with a Coil shock, which seems to work only at higher speeds but for a wider use of the bike a air shock, the X2 should be better!

    So it narrows down the choices between german G15 or Mojo G16 29''!

  176. #376
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    The Nicolai G16 is 64 at 160mm 63.5 at 170mm, similarly the G15 Is at 150mm (approx HA)
    The Mojo one is 62.5 with 170mm fork
    Which is 62 with a 29er 160mm Fork or a 180mm 27.5 (I run mine with both so have neared them)


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  177. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Sadly only with a Coil shock, which seems to work only at higher speeds but for a wider use of the bike a air shock, the X2 should be better!

    So it narrows down the choices between german G15 or Mojo G16 29''!
    Why does the coil only work at higher speeds? Chris hasn’t suggested that, have you tried one?

    I/Mojo have provided feedback on how the G13 could cover both of these bases could be covered by the G13 with the right shock length and set up a la G16.

    Leaving the G16 to cover the longer travel side.



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  178. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    On the Nicolai site, the G16 is listed as 63.5 HA but that's with a 160-170 fork, vs 64d with a 150-160 fork on the G15, so the actual frame HA is the same on both frames, no?
    The B.B. is also key, you can make the G16 29 and it works well with a good B.B. height.

    You can’t make the G13 or 15 do the same with 27.5 or hybrid set up as it drops the B.B. too much.


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  179. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Why does the coil only work at higher speeds? Chris hasn’t suggested that, have you tried one?

    I/Mojo have provided feedback on how the G13 could cover both of these bases could be covered by the G13 with the right shock length and set up a la G16.

    Leaving the G16 to cover the longer travel side.



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    Paul tried it in his custom G13 and went back to the X2!

    Think i'll have to try it, but therefore i first have to get to Mojo!

  180. #380
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    Interesting, I’ll have to chat with CP. it makes no sense given the curve unless the spring was wrong.


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  181. #381
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    This thread is causing paralysis by analysis!! I was leaning towards a Nicolai G15, but now thinking G16 Mojo. Typically I run 29 wheels, but with a bike this long, I might prefer 27.5.

    Pilot, do you know what the lead time is on an extra-longest frameset? I'm 198cm, thinking XL is the way to go, but then Chris is 6'1" on an XXL!

  182. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    This thread is causing paralysis by analysis!! I was leaning towards a Nicolai G15, but now thinking G16 Mojo. Typically I run 29 wheels, but with a bike this long, I might prefer 27.5.

    Pilot, do you know what the lead time is on an extra-longest frameset? I'm 198cm, thinking XL is the way to go, but then Chris is 6'1" on an XXL!
    Chris isn’t normal, he does a lot of this for testing. He’s been riding the XL again lately.

    As of 28th Sep there were 4 XLs in stock.2 raw and 2 black. I can check if they are still there and lead time if you like or you could give Paul a call.

    The recent news regarding Mojo not being the Fox distributed anymore means the phones are very busy though.
    .
    GeoMetron bikes is separate. Mojo is likely to carry on just not exclusive Fox.



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  183. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    This thread is causing paralysis by analysis!! I was leaning towards a Nicolai G15, but now thinking G16 Mojo. Typically I run 29 wheels, but with a bike this long, I might prefer 27.5.

    Pilot, do you know what the lead time is on an extra-longest frameset? I'm 198cm, thinking XL is the way to go, but then Chris is 6'1" on an XXL!
    Try both! I'm 199 cm and should be a XXL, but XL it feels more nimble, even as a 29er! I do find the Hybrid idea of the_pilot very promising.

    But with todays News of Mojo UK and Fox parting ways i have to see how this affects Mojo Nicolai and the Fox supply with Mojo tuned Suspension in general for my future bike!

    But think at least this will affect the Mojo G148 if there a no custom DHX2 in stock anymore!

  184. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Try both! I'm 199 cm and should be a XXL, but XL it feels more nimble, even as a 29er! I do find the Hybrid idea of the_pilot very promising.

    But with todays News of Mojo UK and Fox parting ways i have to see how this affects Mojo Nicolai and the Fox supply with Mojo tuned Suspension in general for my future bike!

    But think at least this will affect the Mojo G148 if there a no custom DHX2 in stock anymore!
    You’ll find that Mojo can fulfill their current GeoMetron stock.
    Nicolai also were supplied significant stock.

    Watch this space for exciting new options in addition.


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  185. #385
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    Can you give your thoughts on running 155 vs 170 rear travel ?
    I ride more epic XC than Enduro but use one big bike to cover it all (currently on an E29).
    My thoughts have always been if there is no kinematic or weight penalty, why not run as much travel as possible. As a pedaller though I tend to run a bit less sag anyway to keep it tight. I've also seen your comments here about just running the 222 shock more progressive.

    I'm just wondering if I plan to be climbing and pedalling a lot, is there any real advantage to running the 216 instead of the 222 ? I like the idea of having 170 for big trails and not swithcing out (and buying) multiple shocks, so if I have to make a choice I'd go with the shorter travel, but I'm not really seeing a penalty here for running more travel. I would be running hybrid or 29 most likely.

    Any thoughts ? (I'm a potential buyer weighing my options)

  186. #386
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    The long travel climbs brilliantly, Bette than 155mm technically not quite as tight on tarmac unless you run less sag. It does feel different but you can ask for a different tune to suit your preferred feel.
    We also tend to subscribe to no weight penalty so why not! You can increase progression or use less sag, change damping all sorts but there are not really any downsides to the longer travel except some say it’s too capable.
    As mentioned it’s easy to firm up/change if you know what you like and what you are doing.


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  187. #387
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    Mojo will be able to source Fox product for GeoMetrons btw and support current bikes etc...


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  188. #388
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    I too feel the longer shock pedals / climbs better (222 on my Mojo Geometron Aug 2016 variant).


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  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy3001 View Post
    Try both! I'm 199 cm and should be a XXL, but XL it feels more nimble, even as a 29er! I do find the Hybrid idea of the_pilot very promising.

    But with todays News of Mojo UK and Fox parting ways i have to see how this affects Mojo Nicolai and the Fox supply with Mojo tuned Suspension in general for my future bike!

    But think at least this will affect the Mojo G148 if there a no custom DHX2 in stock anymore!
    See my post below.
    Mojo are no longer the distributer or warranty provider.
    Mojo will continue to provide Fox for GeoMetrons and will continue to source product.


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  190. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    This thread is causing paralysis by analysis!! I was leaning towards a Nicolai G15, but now thinking G16 Mojo. Typically I run 29 wheels, but with a bike this long, I might prefer 27.5.

    Pilot, do you know what the lead time is on an extra-longest frameset? I'm 198cm, thinking XL is the way to go, but then Chris is 6'1" on an XXL!
    I checked with Paul and there are some XLs in stock.

    Which can be supplied with Mojo tuned suspension as mentioned...


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  191. #391
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    So no real downside to running the G16 with 29? Nicolai is saying there are compromises for swapping wheel size, G15 is designed around Enduro.

    If I run 29 without the shock bushing, higher BB, maybe better in chunk?

    Also, do I need to pick which shock length on my order? Most bikes with a flip chip are designed to be run high/low with the same shock. People are saying no climbing penalty for the longer shock, but no such thing as free lunch..

  192. #392
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    Yeah no climbing penalty. I don't even run it harder. There is also the option of the switch on the longer shock. I gave it but virtually never feel the need to use it. It's a very cost effective lunch, as good as free ';~}


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  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    So no real downside to running the G16 with 29? Nicolai is saying there are compromises for swapping wheel size, G15 is designed around Enduro.

    If I run 29 without the shock bushing, higher BB, maybe better in chunk?

    Also, do I need to pick which shock length on my order? Most bikes with a flip chip are designed to be run high/low with the same shock. People are saying no climbing penalty for the longer shock, but no such thing as free lunch..
    The slight compromise with running a full 29 G16 in 175mm mode is the use of 2 offset bushes to get a 350mm BB as the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it.
    It does slacken the ST slightly (which can be easily offset with the saddle position)
    So not really much of a compromise unless you disagree with the B.B. etc and have just announced a G15....

    Nicolai would put the 29 at 340mm the same as the 27.5 with bigger BB drop. As I’ve said I and others would disagree when running 175m travel.

    The hybrid, with a single shock bush (if preferred, it doesn’t really need it) has no compromises as far was we are concerned.

    Nor has the full 29 in 155mm mode.

    I would modify the G13 and G15 (just like I and others have once they tried it, I have one) which is why Mojo and Nicolai differ on models. I would say it has too slack a ST, not a slack enough HA and too low a B.B. for the 29....
    The G13 with a -2 headset and a 44mm offset fork is a great bike, but at that it has the same angles and dynamic B.B. as a Mojo G16...

    Nicolai penned the G13 and G15 without discussing with Mojo and adhered more to the older/current skool of thinking on ‘Enduro.

    We will look at replicating the Mojo GeoMetron G16 in a shorter travel bike I think.

    G16 155-175mm and 29/27.5 wheels

    G1? 130-150mm travel (approx maybe 125 to 145 depends on the curves) again 27.5 or 29

    We get asked quite a bit about a shorter travel bike, though shorter travel 29s are out of fashion this year..


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  194. #394
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    What about the shock length and Hi/Lo modes. Can you run both hi/lo with either shock, or does low mode require 222mm, and hi mode the 215mm shock?

  195. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    What about the shock length and Hi/Lo modes. Can you run both hi/lo with either shock, or does low mode require 222mm, and hi mode the 215mm shock?
    It isn’t supposed to be high low on the G16 as was designed around the change between shock lengths but of course you can choose within reason .

    However to directly answer.
    With either of the shocks with 29 wheels it needs to be in 222 or low mode to deliver the right B.B. height.
    Especially true with 175mm mode.
    So no changing between modes (not that you would want to given the HA)
    Nicolai are right in that it wasn’t originally designed to run big wheels but it’s an adjustable/adaptable frame anyway and we found it worked really well.


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  196. #396
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    BB height with G16 and 29 wheels

    Hia Pilot
    it took me a while to be sure what you meant here:

    the_pilot
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    So no real downside to running the G16 with 29? Nicolai is saying there are compromises for swapping wheel size, G15 is designed around Enduro.


    If I run 29 without the shock bushing, higher BB, maybe better in chunk?

    Also, do I need to pick which shock length on my order? Most bikes with a flip chip are designed to be run high/low with the same shock. People are saying no climbing penalty for the longer shock, but no such thing as free lunch..


    Pilot replied:

    "The slight compromise with running a full 29 G16 in 175mm mode is the use of 2 offset bushes to get a 350mm BB as the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it.
    It does slacken the ST slightly (which can be easily offset with the saddle position)
    So not really much of a compromise unless you disagree with the B.B. etc"


    SO - you wrote: "as the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it."

    Am I right that you mean with the offset bushings its perfect (once the saddle is adjusted forward a bit, that is)
    - and when you write "some feel its too high" you're referring to the BB on the G16 with 29 wheels - without those offset bushings?

    Does this read right, then:
    The slight compromise with running a full 29 G16 in 175mm mode is you need to use of 2 offset shock bushes to get the ideal 350mm BB.
    With 2x 29 wheels and no offset bushings the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it without bushings and see if it suits you.
    Using the offset bushings does slacken the ST slightly (which can be easily offset with the saddle position).

    Hybrid (29 front/650 rear) is great (and recommended) with or without a shock bush.

    thanks

  197. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Hia Pilot
    it took me a while to be sure what you meant here:

    the_pilot
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    So no real downside to running the G16 with 29? Nicolai is saying there are compromises for swapping wheel size, G15 is designed around Enduro.


    If I run 29 without the shock bushing, higher BB, maybe better in chunk?

    Also, do I need to pick which shock length on my order? Most bikes with a flip chip are designed to be run high/low with the same shock. People are saying no climbing penalty for the longer shock, but no such thing as free lunch..


    Pilot replied:

    "The slight compromise with running a full 29 G16 in 175mm mode is the use of 2 offset bushes to get a 350mm BB as the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it.
    It does slacken the ST slightly (which can be easily offset with the saddle position)
    So not really much of a compromise unless you disagree with the B.B. etc"


    SO - you wrote: "as the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it."

    Am I right that you mean with the offset bushings its perfect (once the saddle is adjusted forward a bit, that is)
    - and when you write "some feel its too high" you're referring to the BB on the G16 with 29 wheels - without those offset bushings?

    Does this read right, then:
    The slight compromise with running a full 29 G16 in 175mm mode is you need to use of 2 offset shock bushes to get the ideal 350mm BB.
    With 2x 29 wheels and no offset bushings the B.B. is really too high (In my opinion, and a few others) but you can always try it without bushings and see if it suits you.
    Using the offset bushings does slacken the ST slightly (which can be easily offset with the saddle position).

    Hybrid (29 front/650 rear) is great (and recommended) with or without a shock bush.

    thanks
    Yes. That is much better worded and exactly what I meant.

    Sounded right in my head!

    29er 175mm and offset bushes, perfect.
    29er 175mm Without offset bushes too high in my opinion.


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  198. #398
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    Thanks for the reassurance.
    I have my geometron on order and was counting on the fox suspension setup from mojo.
    I have heard so much great stuff about it and I thougt this might have gone down the pan when I heard the news about stopping distribution.
    Really looking forward to receiving this bike.

  199. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman jim View Post
    Thanks for the reassurance.
    I have my geometron on order and was counting on the fox suspension setup from mojo.
    I have heard so much great stuff about it and I thougt this might have gone down the pan when I heard the news about stopping distribution.
    Really looking forward to receiving this bike.
    You’re welcome. I’m sure you will love it.
    If you need any help just let me know.



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  200. #400
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    @the_pilot
    I'm trying to make some calculations with my current bike. I was wonder how much bb height I would lose when you goto a hybrid setup. (This is on a 29 bike) I was also wonder how much bb height I would lose going to full 27.5 set up.

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